Morning all, what's Jenners up to today? Last seen rounding the East Goodwin Lightship in a canoe asking refugees if they have knives and livestreaming about that complete fucking prick who Minister of State for Immigration during the Boriswave.
I am visiting London by train today and I am worried I might run into Jenrick at St Pancras and he'll ask to see my ticket.
He's only 5' 5" according to the internet.
That's really short for a man. It's barely an inch higher than my wife.
Regardless of how good he is, will the British electorate vote for a short man as PM?
Height is another unsung prejudice that stops half the population reaching their full potential and ensuring commerce, industry and the country are run by tall and sometimes thick clots with, no doubt, a firm handshake.
But in 2029 Jenrick will be up against a Prime Minister, Angela Rayner, who is of similar height. As with Rishi, he will be shot from below so perspective makes him seem taller. Kemi stands at 6 feet, apparently.
Hmm. Angela Rayner. Will people vote for a red-head? They did for Churchill but he was bald and television was black-and-white so perhaps no-one knew.
I see Farage wants tougher abortion laws. Does he have his own ideas, or does he just do whatever the US Right says now?
This is the big worry with Farage. Becoming purely an appendage of a Trumpian U.S.,with all that might bring along with it for democracy and the rule of law
Surely this is the ticking time bomb?
Hmmmm
In the interests of balance you could also use the snaps of Savile enjoying his Christmas fare with the Thatchers at Chequers.
Two things, I am allowed one pic a day. I have one of Savile with a Conservative branded van. Had that come up first when I searched I would have posted it. Not that I owe you an explanation, but it’s there for other more considerate people here
Secondly, since when did you ever give a shit about balance 😂😂😂😂
More musing on what was, and credit where it's due, an adroit piece of political campaigning by Robert Jenrick yesterday.
The piece was to make angry people angrier - it was full of that which irritates and annoys (and not without justification). It also recognised modern politics isn't about the debate, the search for a solution, but also about emotion and usually the negative ones such as fear and anger.
On all of those levels, it was a success.
It also reminded people there's another Conservative out there and for all his post-video protestations about loyalty to Kemi Badenoch and not wanting the leadership, that was a push for the leadership if there ever was one. "You don't need Boris when you've got Bobby" could be the slogan.
The style reminded me of Poilievre in Canada who got a 20-point lead by being angry about things (which Trump then threw away). Jenrick obviously thinks three or four years of "Mr Grumpy" will win him votes - maybe but politics isn't just about emotions, it's about solutions and as others have pointed out, there was no solution offered to fare evasion let alone the other "anti social" crimes such as shoplifting and phone theft.
I think if you're walking down a London street waving your Iphone 16 in the air you're asking for trouble - now, it shouldn't be like that but petty crime has always existed - it no more started last July than it did in 2010, 1979 or anywhen else. What we call muggings now have existed for centuries.
The truth is Transport for London probably accepts a level of evasion (just as Greggs and other stores accept a level of shop lifting) because the investment needed to reduce that level still further would be prohibitively expensive for their business. Government probably accepts a level of fraud in welfare, Councils accept a small amount of Council Tax won't be paid.
Did he make these rapscallions pay their train fares?
Does he have a workable plan to reduce fare dodging?
Otherwise, he's one of those grumpy men waving their fists at Dennis the Menace as he runs away.
A public citizen doesn't have the power to 'make' other people pay their fares - he can however bring their fare dodging to the notice of TFL staff on the scene, whose actual job is to make them pay their fare, which is what he did.
His workable plan is to inspire a public debate that forces TFL to take steps to stamp out the practice, rather than watching whilst it happens and putting fares up for those who pay, or getting the begging bowl out for more funding.
It is entirely legitimate, and this daft carping is purely because Jenrick is a right wing Tory complaining about a Labour issue. Change the rosette, and you'd be full of praise.
Hang on. People don't see "A Labour issue". This isn't about faredodging, its about the rampant crime wave sweeping the country thanks to a lack of police and a lack of trials and a jack of jails.
Which everyone blames the Tories for, because its the Tories fault. The idea that the faredodging element of the rampant crime wave is a Labour issue because of who the mayor is demonstrates almost HYUFD levels of hopium.
To be fair to Jenners and his fans, Labour are the ones in power, so it is their problem. One of Starmer's problems is public impatience. Even if he were better than he is, there would still be a huge amount of leftover vomit to clean up, and the stench is awful.
And although gate jumping is a long way from being the most expensive bit of fare dodging, it's very visible and quite scary when it happens near you- especially when you have opened the gate and someone pushes behind you. Campaigning on it is a smart bit of political theatre.
It's also probably nonsense. The cost of stamping out gate jumping (enforcement at stations, prosecution and punishment) almost certainly exceeds the cash savings that would accrue. It might be worth doing for the sake of it, to make the public safer and happier, but it won't be cheap and at the moment, everything has to be cheap.
But like some other notorious campaign gimmicks of the last decade, none of that matters. Politicians have learned that, if you say things cleverly, you don't have to get the details right. Because if anyone tries to correct the details, they sound boring and it just proves your unsaid point.
And that's true whatever the rosette, and I get why it's smart politics. But it leads to bad government.
Labour have been in charge in London for a decade, so exposing TfL is fare game
Labour have been in charge of TfL budgets for a decade? You want me to wheel out the "you will do what we say or we bankrupt you" letter to Khan from Shapps?
Or perhaps we should look at the swinging cuts to the Met budget or the BTP budget. Both get some cash from TfL which again goes back to the "I'll bankrupt you letter"
Am I saying that Khan is a passenger? No. But politically the Tories need to be very careful because at the heart of this issue - and the entire rampant crime wave issue - is what they did to criminal justice. And people know it.
Did he make these rapscallions pay their train fares?
Does he have a workable plan to reduce fare dodging?
Otherwise, he's one of those grumpy men waving their fists at Dennis the Menace as he runs away.
A public citizen doesn't have the power to 'make' other people pay their fares - he can however bring their fare dodging to the notice of TFL staff on the scene, whose actual job is to make them pay their fare, which is what he did.
His workable plan is to inspire a public debate that forces TFL to take steps to stamp out the practice, rather than watching whilst it happens and putting fares up for those who pay, or getting the begging bowl out for more funding.
It is entirely legitimate, and this daft carping is purely because Jenrick is a right wing Tory complaining about a Labour issue. Change the rosette, and you'd be full of praise.
Hang on. People don't see "A Labour issue". This isn't about faredodging, its about the rampant crime wave sweeping the country thanks to a lack of police and a lack of trials and a jack of jails.
Which everyone blames the Tories for, because its the Tories fault. The idea that the faredodging element of the rampant crime wave is a Labour issue because of who the mayor is demonstrates almost HYUFD levels of hopium.
Sadiq Khan has been responsible for TFL and had other wide ranging powers in London for nearly a decade. Above him, he now has a Labour Government at UK level. How is it not a Labour issue?
When we end up joining the likes of Russia and Belarus in removing international checks and balances from government policy his analogous comments have some salience.
I see Farage wants tougher abortion laws. Does he have his own ideas, or does he just do whatever the US Right says now?
This is the big worry with Farage. Becoming purely an appendage of a Trumpian U.S.,with all that might bring along with it for democracy and the rule of law
Surely this is the ticking time bomb?
Hmmmm
Saville was not a political figure open about his views, though.
Savile was very open about politics. His support of Israel for one.
More people know who Savile is than this bald guy the BBC go on about a lot.
I doubt the picture will hurt Farage, but keep hoping.
The right way to neuter Farage is for the govt to start delivering and making people’s lives better. I can see why they, and their fans, resort to other methods as that seems out of their reach.
Did he make these rapscallions pay their train fares?
Does he have a workable plan to reduce fare dodging?
Otherwise, he's one of those grumpy men waving their fists at Dennis the Menace as he runs away.
That group of grumpy men is significantly larger than the Conservative's current vote share.
The really cynical thing to do would be drug drivers after the widely held assumption about the Liverpool driver. He'd have to be careful not to mention that incident though.
The Liverpool driver is apparently an ex Royal Marine commando so for the moment that has cauterised the incident as a wound for the right to pick at.
I can see where this is going. The PTSD defence.
Not completely unreasonable either. A lot of veterans have it, causing explosive acts of temper.
Though one denied to asylum seekers it seems. Their traumas are washed clean on arrival.
'Surely the evidence is clear and unambiguous - this guy has been fitted up. The perp was a MUSLIM because muslims are the bad people, not people who look like me, we are the victims. So the evil scum have not only lied to hide that it was a MUSLIM but they've fitted up one of our brave boys as well.
There's only one way to have justice, and that's to ransack Greggs or something'
Parody, but only a slight exaggeration of what is being posted on Twitter
Best get yourself off Leon's stream, then
At any point the bloke could have stopped his car. If Jenrick went for drug drivers he'd deserve some praise, drug/drunk/reckless drivers are risking the lives of other innocent people. Fare dodgers are depriving tfl of income, which tfl has made a cost/benefit decision about. All Jenrick's probably achieved is to increase it. Still it's a brave politician that criticises poor driving behaviours.
Morning all. Very weirdly all reference to the local by election Con gain in Maldon last night seem to have been memory holed on twitter with some suggestion its counting today......the tweet from which i copied the result has disappeared so my sincere apologies if that turns out to have been fake news
Yep, pretty much confirmed. One or two people got a bit excited and confused their Maldon Wests with their Maldon Norths. Counting starts at 10.30 this morning for Maldon West.
Happy to discuss the strong LD hold in Newhaven.
Was about to post again yes appears to have been Maldon North from March! I think because that one also didnt have a Lab candidate it confused the world in the wee hours. Again, apologies from me to all, it was late and seemed official enough (and the vote share chsngd calcs fitted but obvs theyd just retrofitted those). I'd not intentionally mislead. Newhaven again a strong LD hold yes, i think Lewes looks safe! Reform hoovering up the second place is different to last weeks holds and the Tory vote collapsed to buttons alongside Labours even smaller buttons
If everyone posted a correction every time they got something wrong here it would almost double the number of posts. Think about how many extra posts we would have to read from Leon!
More musing on what was, and credit where it's due, an adroit piece of political campaigning by Robert Jenrick yesterday.
The piece was to make angry people angrier - it was full of that which irritates and annoys (and not without justification). It also recognised modern politics isn't about the debate, the search for a solution, but also about emotion and usually the negative ones such as fear and anger.
On all of those levels, it was a success.
It also reminded people there's another Conservative out there and for all his post-video protestations about loyalty to Kemi Badenoch and not wanting the leadership, that was a push for the leadership if there ever was one. "You don't need Boris when you've got Bobby" could be the slogan.
The style reminded me of Poilievre in Canada who got a 20-point lead by being angry about things (which Trump then threw away). Jenrick obviously thinks three or four years of "Mr Grumpy" will win him votes - maybe but politics isn't just about emotions, it's about solutions and as others have pointed out, there was no solution offered to fare evasion let alone the other "anti social" crimes such as shoplifting and phone theft.
I think if you're walking down a London street waving your Iphone 16 in the air you're asking for trouble - now, it shouldn't be like that but petty crime has always existed - it no more started last July than it did in 2010, 1979 or anywhen else. What we call muggings now have existed for centuries.
The truth is Transport for London probably accepts a level of evasion (just as Greggs and other stores accept a level of shop lifting) because the investment needed to reduce that level still further would be prohibitively expensive for their business. Government probably accepts a level of fraud in welfare, Councils accept a small amount of Council Tax won't be paid.
There is a reverse angle for Khan to play. Wheel out the terrible crime statistics in London. Wheel out the lack of money / officers / arrests / convictions. And demand the powers and the money to make London's streets safe again.
"We need to restore all of the money cut by Jenrick and his cronies so that we actually have the resources we need to stop this." etc
Khan is a bit of a lone wolf politically anyway, he won't mind putting Starmer under pressure. But you can't pull a tough guy mayor play if you don't have the police resources to clamp down. And he doesn't. And saying so makes the Tories look shit.
Morning all, what's Jenners up to today? Last seen rounding the East Goodwin Lightship in a canoe asking refugees if they have knives and livestreaming about that complete fucking prick who Minister of State for Immigration during the Boriswave.
I am visiting London by train today and I am worried I might run into Jenrick at St Pancras and he'll ask to see my ticket.
He's only 5' 5" according to the internet.
That's really short for a man. It's barely an inch higher than my wife.
Regardless of how good he is, will the British electorate vote for a short man as PM?
Height is another unsung prejudice that stops half the population reaching their full potential and ensuring commerce, industry and the country are run by tall and sometimes thick clots with, no doubt, a firm handshake.
But in 2029 Jenrick will be up against a Prime Minister, Angela Rayner, who is of similar height. As with Rishi, he will be shot from below so perspective makes him seem taller. Kemi stands at 6 feet, apparently.
Hmm. Angela Rayner. Will people vote for a red-head? They did for Churchill but he was bald and television was black-and-white so perhaps no-one knew.
Indeed. Attlee and Churchill were the same height as Jenrick or Sunak, and were much better Prime Ministers than Cameron or May.
I see Farage wants tougher abortion laws. Does he have his own ideas, or does he just do whatever the US Right says now?
This is the big worry with Farage. Becoming purely an appendage of a Trumpian U.S.,with all that might bring along with it for democracy and the rule of law
Surely this is the ticking time bomb?
Hmmmm
Saville was not a political figure open about his views, though.
I see Farage wants tougher abortion laws. Does he have his own ideas, or does he just do whatever the US Right says now?
This is the big worry with Farage. Becoming purely an appendage of a Trumpian U.S.,with all that might bring along with it for democracy and the rule of law
Surely this is the ticking time bomb?
Hmmmm
Saville was not a political figure open about his views, though.
Yes he was, he campaigned for the Liberal Party.
Rather different, as that was little known to most political. He was primarily known as an apolitical entertainment figure, unlike Tate.
I see Farage wants tougher abortion laws. Does he have his own ideas, or does he just do whatever the US Right says now?
This is the big worry with Farage. Becoming purely an appendage of a Trumpian U.S.,with all that might bring along with it for democracy and the rule of law
I see Farage wants tougher abortion laws. Does he have his own ideas, or does he just do whatever the US Right says now?
This is the big worry with Farage. Becoming purely an appendage of a Trumpian U.S.,with all that might bring along with it for democracy and the rule of law
Surely this is the ticking time bomb?
Hmmmm
Saville was not a political figure open about his views, though.
Savile was very open about politics. His support of Israel for one.
More people know who Savile is than this bald guy the BBC go on about a lot.
I doubt the picture will hurt Farage, but keep hoping.
The right way to neuter Farage is for the govt to start delivering and making people’s lives better. I can see why they, and their fans, resort to other methods as that seems out of their reach.
You must listen to different BBC News sources to me. Tate is reported on factually, i.e. whoever he is subjected to a legal issue the BBC report that issue. Farage and Reform on the other hand are given a free pass on pretty much everything. Evan Davis was last night supportive of Farage and critical of Starmer's attack in a conversation with Darren Jones. I don't believe Davis is fanboying Farage but they are desperate for the Farage rags to riches political story to be true.
As to Labour standing or falling on their record that is absolutely fair, however both the Conservatives and Labour for their own survival need to call out Farage's fantasy economics.
More musing on what was, and credit where it's due, an adroit piece of political campaigning by Robert Jenrick yesterday.
The piece was to make angry people angrier - it was full of that which irritates and annoys (and not without justification). It also recognised modern politics isn't about the debate, the search for a solution, but also about emotion and usually the negative ones such as fear and anger.
On all of those levels, it was a success.
It also reminded people there's another Conservative out there and for all his post-video protestations about loyalty to Kemi Badenoch and not wanting the leadership, that was a push for the leadership if there ever was one. "You don't need Boris when you've got Bobby" could be the slogan.
The style reminded me of Poilievre in Canada who got a 20-point lead by being angry about things (which Trump then threw away). Jenrick obviously thinks three or four years of "Mr Grumpy" will win him votes - maybe but politics isn't just about emotions, it's about solutions and as others have pointed out, there was no solution offered to fare evasion let alone the other "anti social" crimes such as shoplifting and phone theft.
I think if you're walking down a London street waving your Iphone 16 in the air you're asking for trouble - now, it shouldn't be like that but petty crime has always existed - it no more started last July than it did in 2010, 1979 or anywhen else. What we call muggings now have existed for centuries.
The truth is Transport for London probably accepts a level of evasion (just as Greggs and other stores accept a level of shop lifting) because the investment needed to reduce that level still further would be prohibitively expensive for their business. Government probably accepts a level of fraud in welfare, Councils accept a small amount of Council Tax won't be paid.
I see Farage wants tougher abortion laws. Does he have his own ideas, or does he just do whatever the US Right says now?
This is the big worry with Farage. Becoming purely an appendage of a Trumpian U.S.,with all that might bring along with it for democracy and the rule of law
Surely this is the ticking time bomb?
Hmmmm
Saville was not a political figure open about his views, though.
Yes he was, he campaigned for the Liberal Party.
Not that I care, because we have enough examples of our own more obvious dirty linen on that front (as does everyone sadly), but that is news to me and I have been around the party for 50+ years. Can you provide a link/reference?
I see Farage wants tougher abortion laws. Does he have his own ideas, or does he just do whatever the US Right says now?
This is the big worry with Farage. Becoming purely an appendage of a Trumpian U.S.,with all that might bring along with it for democracy and the rule of law
Surely this is the ticking time bomb?
Hmmmm
In the interests of balance you could also use the snaps of Savile enjoying his Christmas fare with the Thatchers at Chequers.
Two things, I am allowed one pic a day. I have one of Savile with a Conservative branded van. Had that come up first when I searched I would have posted it. Not that I owe you an explanation, but it’s there for other more considerate people here
Secondly, since when did you ever give a shit about balance 😂😂😂😂
I suspect I am far more balanced in my analysis than many on here. I am not uncritical of the current government or the previous one. However as I would prefer not to see either a Jenrick or Farage government I will double down on calling them out.
Now please remove your scandalous accusations that I am an "unbalanced" (take that as you wish) poster.
Another day, another poll that shows Labour will continue to tread water until they show delivery.
Clearly the immigration numbers haven’t made a dent (as predicted by many here) but neither to be fair has Chagos or the various trade deals.
I can’t think changes to the WFA are going to change those numbers, nor any changes to the two child cap.
So Labour needs to start plugging away to make people feel better off and to change the perception that the country is broken. Robert Jenrick tapped into this feeling very effectively and credit to him for uncovering an issue that annoys many. One that also annoys me is cyclists just jumping red lights constantly. We talk about lawlessness, I think I’m the only cyclist in London that seems to have any awareness of the Highway Code.
The economic numbers for the first part of this year were actually quite good to much confusion but presumably they will now be significantly blown by everything post April.
At this point it will take many years of consistent delivery and improvement for Labour to change their position. Until then it’s Farage with the lead. But he will no doubt reach adversity and difficulty and we will wonder at some point if it’s as easy as it seems to be right now. I get the same feeling as when Johnson was riding high, nothing seemed to stick. Until it did.
More musing on what was, and credit where it's due, an adroit piece of political campaigning by Robert Jenrick yesterday.
The piece was to make angry people angrier - it was full of that which irritates and annoys (and not without justification). It also recognised modern politics isn't about the debate, the search for a solution, but also about emotion and usually the negative ones such as fear and anger.
On all of those levels, it was a success.
It also reminded people there's another Conservative out there and for all his post-video protestations about loyalty to Kemi Badenoch and not wanting the leadership, that was a push for the leadership if there ever was one. "You don't need Boris when you've got Bobby" could be the slogan.
The style reminded me of Poilievre in Canada who got a 20-point lead by being angry about things (which Trump then threw away). Jenrick obviously thinks three or four years of "Mr Grumpy" will win him votes - maybe but politics isn't just about emotions, it's about solutions and as others have pointed out, there was no solution offered to fare evasion let alone the other "anti social" crimes such as shoplifting and phone theft.
I think if you're walking down a London street waving your Iphone 16 in the air you're asking for trouble - now, it shouldn't be like that but petty crime has always existed - it no more started last July than it did in 2010, 1979 or anywhen else. What we call muggings now have existed for centuries.
The truth is Transport for London probably accepts a level of evasion (just as Greggs and other stores accept a level of shop lifting) because the investment needed to reduce that level still further would be prohibitively expensive for their business. Government probably accepts a level of fraud in welfare, Councils accept a small amount of Council Tax won't be paid.
TFL have advised staff not to confront people they think might be dangerous, they have to call in officers trained in 'enforcement' - which merely begs the question, how many of these stations have these enforcement staff, and where are they? Anyone dodging a barrier has committed a crime, so don't they all present the possibility of danger? So what's the point of having people who aren't trained to enforce the rules?
It is understood that TfL tells station staff that they are expected to assist customers to pay the correct fare for their journeys and encourage everyone to tap in.
But the network says that if a member of staff judges it is not safe to intervene, they are encouraged to report incidents they witness to inform the deployment of enforcement staff.
I see Farage wants tougher abortion laws. Does he have his own ideas, or does he just do whatever the US Right says now?
This is the big worry with Farage. Becoming purely an appendage of a Trumpian U.S.,with all that might bring along with it for democracy and the rule of law
Surely this is the ticking time bomb?
Hmmmm
Saville was not a political figure open about his views, though.
Yes he was, he campaigned for the Liberal Party.
Not that I care, because we have enough examples of our own more obvious dirty linen on that front (as does everyone sadly), but that is news to me and I have been around the party for 50+ years. Can you provide a link/reference?
Well I should have done a google search first, shouldn't I? I always thought he was a Tory supporter (again not that it matters).
I see Farage wants tougher abortion laws. Does he have his own ideas, or does he just do whatever the US Right says now?
This is the big worry with Farage. Becoming purely an appendage of a Trumpian U.S.,with all that might bring along with it for democracy and the rule of law
Surely this is the ticking time bomb?
Hmmmm
Saville was not a political figure open about his views, though.
Yes he was, he campaigned for the Liberal Party.
Not that I care, because we have enough examples of our own more obvious dirty linen on that front (as does everyone sadly), but that is news to me and I have been around the party for 50+ years. Can you provide a link/reference?
I see Farage wants tougher abortion laws. Does he have his own ideas, or does he just do whatever the US Right says now?
This is the big worry with Farage. Becoming purely an appendage of a Trumpian U.S.,with all that might bring along with it for democracy and the rule of law
Surely this is the ticking time bomb?
Hmmmm
Saville was not a political figure open about his views, though.
Savile was very open about politics. His support of Israel for one.
More people know who Savile is than this bald guy the BBC go on about a lot.
I doubt the picture will hurt Farage, but keep hoping.
The right way to neuter Farage is for the govt to start delivering and making people’s lives better. I can see why they, and their fans, resort to other methods as that seems out of their reach.
You must listen to different BBC News sources to me. Tate is reported on factually, i.e. whoever he is subjected to a legal issue the BBC report that issue. Farage and Reform on the other hand are given a free pass on pretty much everything. Evan Davis was last night supportive of Farage and critical of Starmer's attack in a conversation with Darren Jones. I don't believe Davis is fanboying Farage but they are desperate for the Farage rags to riches political story to be true.
As to Labour standing or falling on their record that is absolutely fair, however both the Conservatives and Labour for their own survival need to call out Farage's fantasy economics.
Reform will soon have records to defend. The press could, and should, be forensic in their analysis of their performance. Forget the DEI/Net zero/performative crap. Focus on delivery or lack of.
In Durham we were promised a forensic audit of expenditure with money being clawed back. Yeah right. I discussed this on a local group on FB with Andrew Husband, now council leader.
I gave him my view that the only beneficiary of a spend audit will be the auditors and how much will that cost.
Farage’s commitments don’t add up either. They should be subject to more scrutiny. This is a party leading the polls.
Last nights Canvey Island Reform success has wrecked a council oddity - Castle Point DC was the only council in England with no Con, Lab, Ref, LD or Green councillors. Its still the only one with no Con, Lab, LD or Green
An interesting comparison of different podcasts, journos vs politicians vs academics, and the importance of sticking to the beat?
The Rest is Politics USA (here, Katty Kay) getting onto the threat to threat to Harvard and the USA science base, yesterday, with Michael Steele (ex-RNC chair). I'm not aware that they have done this subject before in depth: https://youtu.be/7Y7fF6JVLcc?t=2365
The Rest is Politics did this some time ago with a more senior figure, around the initial assault on Harvard - Rory Stewart being a current Harvard Professor himself.
Here, I think we were talking about this back in March, due to Fiona Hill interviews, and her comment that 'Trump and his followers were killing the Golden Goose'. I posted that in mid-March - others may have been earlier. Interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdgvrK3zyWU&t=2401s
Did he make these rapscallions pay their train fares?
Does he have a workable plan to reduce fare dodging?
Otherwise, he's one of those grumpy men waving their fists at Dennis the Menace as he runs away.
A public citizen doesn't have the power to 'make' other people pay their fares - he can however bring their fare dodging to the notice of TFL staff on the scene, whose actual job is to make them pay their fare, which is what he did.
His workable plan is to inspire a public debate that forces TFL to take steps to stamp out the practice, rather than watching whilst it happens and putting fares up for those who pay, or getting the begging bowl out for more funding.
It is entirely legitimate, and this daft carping is purely because Jenrick is a right wing Tory complaining about a Labour issue. Change the rosette, and you'd be full of praise.
Hang on. People don't see "A Labour issue". This isn't about faredodging, its about the rampant crime wave sweeping the country thanks to a lack of police and a lack of trials and a jack of jails.
Which everyone blames the Tories for, because its the Tories fault. The idea that the faredodging element of the rampant crime wave is a Labour issue because of who the mayor is demonstrates almost HYUFD levels of hopium.
To be fair to Jenners and his fans, Labour are the ones in power, so it is their problem. One of Starmer's problems is public impatience. Even if he were better than he is, there would still be a huge amount of leftover vomit to clean up, and the stench is awful.
And although gate jumping is a long way from being the most expensive bit of fare dodging, it's very visible and quite scary when it happens near you- especially when you have opened the gate and someone pushes behind you. Campaigning on it is a smart bit of political theatre.
It's also probably nonsense. The cost of stamping out gate jumping (enforcement at stations, prosecution and punishment) almost certainly exceeds the cash savings that would accrue. It might be worth doing for the sake of it, to make the public safer and happier, but it won't be cheap and at the moment, everything has to be cheap.
But like some other notorious campaign gimmicks of the last decade, none of that matters. Politicians have learned that, if you say things cleverly, you don't have to get the details right. Because if anyone tries to correct the details, they sound boring and it just proves your unsaid point.
And that's true whatever the rosette, and I get why it's smart politics. But it leads to bad government.
Labour have been in charge in London for a decade, so exposing TfL is fare game
Labour have been in charge of TfL budgets for a decade? You want me to wheel out the "you will do what we say or we bankrupt you" letter to Khan from Shapps?
Or perhaps we should look at the swinging cuts to the Met budget or the BTP budget. Both get some cash from TfL which again goes back to the "I'll bankrupt you letter"
Am I saying that Khan is a passenger? No. But politically the Tories need to be very careful because at the heart of this issue - and the entire rampant crime wave issue - is what they did to criminal justice. And people know it.
Oh I see. Anything good to come out of London between 2015- 2024 can be credited to the Conservative Government
I see Farage wants tougher abortion laws. Does he have his own ideas, or does he just do whatever the US Right says now?
This is the big worry with Farage. Becoming purely an appendage of a Trumpian U.S.,with all that might bring along with it for democracy and the rule of law
Surely this is the ticking time bomb?
Hmmmm
Saville was not a political figure open about his views, though.
Yes he was, he campaigned for the Liberal Party.
Not that I care, because we have enough examples of our own more obvious dirty linen on that front (as does everyone sadly), but that is news to me and I have been around the party for 50+ years. Can you provide a link/reference?
I see Farage wants tougher abortion laws. Does he have his own ideas, or does he just do whatever the US Right says now?
This is the big worry with Farage. Becoming purely an appendage of a Trumpian U.S.,with all that might bring along with it for democracy and the rule of law
Surely this is the ticking time bomb?
Hmmmm
Saville was not a political figure open about his views, though.
Savile was very open about politics. His support of Israel for one.
More people know who Savile is than this bald guy the BBC go on about a lot.
I doubt the picture will hurt Farage, but keep hoping.
The right way to neuter Farage is for the govt to start delivering and making people’s lives better. I can see why they, and their fans, resort to other methods as that seems out of their reach.
You must listen to different BBC News sources to me. Tate is reported on factually, i.e. whoever he is subjected to a legal issue the BBC report that issue. Farage and Reform on the other hand are given a free pass on pretty much everything. Evan Davis was last night supportive of Farage and critical of Starmer's attack in a conversation with Darren Jones. I don't believe Davis is fanboying Farage but they are desperate for the Farage rags to riches political story to be true.
As to Labour standing or falling on their record that is absolutely fair, however both the Conservatives and Labour for their own survival need to call out Farage's fantasy economics.
Reform will soon have records to defend. The press could, and should, be forensic in their analysis of their performance. Forget the DEI/Net zero/performative crap. Focus on delivery or lack of.
In Durham we were promised a forensic audit of expenditure with money being clawed back. Yeah right. I discussed this on a local group on FB with Andrew Husband, now council leader.
I gave him my view that the only beneficiary of a spend audit will be the auditors and how much will that cost.
Farage’s commitments don’t add up either. They should be subject to more scrutiny. This is a party leading the polls.
I don't agree. There is a serious issue with procurement contracts in local Government and there are millions wasted. This needs to be exposed and dealt with, whoever is in office.
Did he make these rapscallions pay their train fares?
Does he have a workable plan to reduce fare dodging?
Otherwise, he's one of those grumpy men waving their fists at Dennis the Menace as he runs away.
A public citizen doesn't have the power to 'make' other people pay their fares - he can however bring their fare dodging to the notice of TFL staff on the scene, whose actual job is to make them pay their fare, which is what he did.
His workable plan is to inspire a public debate that forces TFL to take steps to stamp out the practice, rather than watching whilst it happens and putting fares up for those who pay, or getting the begging bowl out for more funding.
It is entirely legitimate, and this daft carping is purely because Jenrick is a right wing Tory complaining about a Labour issue. Change the rosette, and you'd be full of praise.
Hang on. People don't see "A Labour issue". This isn't about faredodging, its about the rampant crime wave sweeping the country thanks to a lack of police and a lack of trials and a jack of jails.
Which everyone blames the Tories for, because its the Tories fault. The idea that the faredodging element of the rampant crime wave is a Labour issue because of who the mayor is demonstrates almost HYUFD levels of hopium.
Sadiq Khan has been responsible for TFL and had other wide ranging powers in London for nearly a decade. Above him, he now has a Labour Government at UK level. How is it not a Labour issue?
That's a valid point and in keeping bus fares low, Khan has unashamedly played to his political base.
Slightly in his defence, the passenger numbers show tube journeys during the week to be at 85% of pre-Covid numbers (bus numbers a little higher) so that's a key piece of income which they have lost (in common with other transport providers).
TfL are trying to make up the shortfall by cuts to Services - there are fewer tubes especially during the off-peak day time period and at weekends (the latter is odd because weekend leisure traffic has rebounded to be slightly above pre-Covid levels).
Tube staff have done very well out of Khan (as you might expect) and there's been little or no industrial action (again, as you might expect). The Elizabeth Line has been a huge success and it's given a boost to those advocating other improvements such as the Bakerloo Line extension and even the North-South Crossrail link.
That said, so many Londoners rely on public transport it needs to work well and be run well.
TFL have advised staff not to confront people they think might be dangerous, they have to call in officers trained in 'enforcement' - which merely begs the question, how many of these stations have these enforcement staff, and where are they? Anyone dodging a barrier has committed a crime, so don't they all present the possibility of danger? So what's the point of having people who aren't trained to enforce the rules?
It is understood that TfL tells station staff that they are expected to assist customers to pay the correct fare for their journeys and encourage everyone to tap in.
But the network says that if a member of staff judges it is not safe to intervene, they are encouraged to report incidents they witness to inform the deployment of enforcement staff.
Goes back to what someone was saying here yesterday, and something I saw with my own eyes more than once travelling on a train from Five Ways to Redditch when I used to work there.
Revenue protection will target easy targets. A business traveller who bought the wrong ticket, for example, but a group of lads who jumped on without a ticket just allowed to get off.
This was 2001, so it is not new. But it feels like it is getting worse.
Reform may well destroy Labour in Wales, but will destroy the Conservatives too.
I suspect that Plaid will do well too, even without @HYUFD helping.
Reform are already saying they are the only alternative to a Plaid and Labour regime in Wales
The Welsh Tories seem pretty gross to be fair - probably no loss to the public realm, but if they want to get anywhere they need an inspiring idea - I actually think Mark's long mooted tidal scheme could be that.
Is that about par for PC in that area? Seems low for a party leading the polls.
Classic RedWall Wales. Lots of council (former?) estates and terraced housing. Labour votes at one time would have been weighed not counted in this ward. Not Plaid territory at all but an area where although South Asian immigration has more or less passed the area by it would be the sort of place that would worry unduly about "foreigners".
It does suggest a Labour collapse in Wales. Starmer needs to stop the boats.
Last nights Canvey Island Reform success has wrecked a council oddity - Castle Point DC was the only council in England with no Con, Lab, Ref, LD or Green councillors. Its still the only one with no Con, Lab, LD or Green
A barrister friend who works in the area reckons that if Hitler had invaded, he could have recruited a British SS on Canvey Island.
Reform may well destroy Labour in Wales, but will destroy the Conservatives too.
I suspect that Plaid will do well too, even without @HYUFD helping.
Reform are already saying they are the only alternative to a Plaid and Labour regime in Wales
Reform, ironically, need a half decent Tory result to stand a chance of governing. The list system means they have zero chance of a majority and the only way they govern is if Ref plus Con is enough for the Welsh Tories to say 'ok, minority admin it is, go for it'
Reform may well destroy Labour in Wales, but will destroy the Conservatives too.
I suspect that Plaid will do well too, even without @HYUFD helping.
Reform are already saying they are the only alternative to a Plaid and Labour regime in Wales
The Welsh Tories seem pretty gross to be fair - probably no loss to the public realm, but if they want to get anywhere they need an inspiring idea - I actually think Mark's long mooted tidal scheme could be that.
They are suffering from Reform popularity and will struggle next May
Indeed Wales could be a Plaid Reform Senedd with both the conservatives and labour in dire straits
Last nights Canvey Island Reform success has wrecked a council oddity - Castle Point DC was the only council in England with no Con, Lab, Ref, LD or Green councillors. Its still the only one with no Con, Lab, LD or Green
A barrister friend who works in the area reckons that if Hitler had invaded, he could have recruited a British SS on Canvey Island.
I see Farage wants tougher abortion laws. Does he have his own ideas, or does he just do whatever the US Right says now?
This is the big worry with Farage. Becoming purely an appendage of a Trumpian U.S.,with all that might bring along with it for democracy and the rule of law
Surely this is the ticking time bomb?
Hmmmm
Saville was not a political figure open about his views, though.
Savile was very open about politics. His support of Israel for one.
More people know who Savile is than this bald guy the BBC go on about a lot.
I doubt the picture will hurt Farage, but keep hoping.
The right way to neuter Farage is for the govt to start delivering and making people’s lives better. I can see why they, and their fans, resort to other methods as that seems out of their reach.
You must listen to different BBC News sources to me. Tate is reported on factually, i.e. whoever he is subjected to a legal issue the BBC report that issue. Farage and Reform on the other hand are given a free pass on pretty much everything. Evan Davis was last night supportive of Farage and critical of Starmer's attack in a conversation with Darren Jones. I don't believe Davis is fanboying Farage but they are desperate for the Farage rags to riches political story to be true.
As to Labour standing or falling on their record that is absolutely fair, however both the Conservatives and Labour for their own survival need to call out Farage's fantasy economics.
Reform will soon have records to defend. The press could, and should, be forensic in their analysis of their performance. Forget the DEI/Net zero/performative crap. Focus on delivery or lack of.
In Durham we were promised a forensic audit of expenditure with money being clawed back. Yeah right. I discussed this on a local group on FB with Andrew Husband, now council leader.
I gave him my view that the only beneficiary of a spend audit will be the auditors and how much will that cost.
Farage’s commitments don’t add up either. They should be subject to more scrutiny. This is a party leading the polls.
I don't agree. There is a serious issue with procurement contracts in local Government and there are millions wasted. This needs to be exposed and dealt with, whoever is in office.
Okay, well let’s see what, if anything, comes out of it.
It just struck me as posturing for votes rather than anything concrete.
Morning all, what's Jenners up to today? Last seen rounding the East Goodwin Lightship in a canoe asking refugees if they have knives and livestreaming about that complete fucking prick who Minister of State for Immigration during the Boriswave.
Jenrick is taking a leaf from Daveys campaigning book.
First you have to get noticed, and he has.
Then you have to have something worthwhile to say.
That is an opportunity for the Govt if they get their comms strategy together. Jenrick's hypocrisy is so blatant that a 2 day old kitten could see it.
TFL have advised staff not to confront people they think might be dangerous, they have to call in officers trained in 'enforcement' - which merely begs the question, how many of these stations have these enforcement staff, and where are they? Anyone dodging a barrier has committed a crime, so don't they all present the possibility of danger? So what's the point of having people who aren't trained to enforce the rules?
It is understood that TfL tells station staff that they are expected to assist customers to pay the correct fare for their journeys and encourage everyone to tap in.
But the network says that if a member of staff judges it is not safe to intervene, they are encouraged to report incidents they witness to inform the deployment of enforcement staff.
Most stations don't have enforcement staff, they just have one or two ordinary TFL staff members. And, as you say, they've been told not to intervene in case it's dangerous.
I see Farage wants tougher abortion laws. Does he have his own ideas, or does he just do whatever the US Right says now?
This is the big worry with Farage. Becoming purely an appendage of a Trumpian U.S.,with all that might bring along with it for democracy and the rule of law
Surely this is the ticking time bomb?
Hmmmm
Not the same though is it? Saville wasn't known about at the time of those meetings. Tate was.
Re Farage's views on abortion - I think it is unfair to taint him with the US stance on this. Having listened to him, he clearly thinks it is a matter of conscious and wasn't making it a party line and only seemed to have an issue with the edge cases citing the 22 - 24 week issue.
Having said both of those things it is perception rather than facts that will probably count with the electorate.
Last nights Canvey Island Reform success has wrecked a council oddity - Castle Point DC was the only council in England with no Con, Lab, Ref, LD or Green councillors. Its still the only one with no Con, Lab, LD or Green
A barrister friend who works in the area reckons that if Hitler had invaded, he could have recruited a British SS on Canvey Island.
Really. Was he working there in the early 1940’s ?
There was a British SS. None seem to have come from Canvey Island.
Reform may well destroy Labour in Wales, but will destroy the Conservatives too.
I suspect that Plaid will do well too, even without @HYUFD helping.
Reform are already saying they are the only alternative to a Plaid and Labour regime in Wales
The Welsh Tories seem pretty gross to be fair - probably no loss to the public realm, but if they want to get anywhere they need an inspiring idea - I actually think Mark's long mooted tidal scheme could be that.
They are suffering from Reform popularity and will struggle next May
Indeed Wales could be a Plaid Reform Senedd with both the conservatives and labour in dire straits
If Plaid and Reform form a coalition that would be the end of Plaid.
I see Farage wants tougher abortion laws. Does he have his own ideas, or does he just do whatever the US Right says now?
This is the big worry with Farage. Becoming purely an appendage of a Trumpian U.S.,with all that might bring along with it for democracy and the rule of law
Surely this is the ticking time bomb?
Hmmmm
Saville was not a political figure open about his views, though.
Yes he was, he campaigned for the Liberal Party.
Not that I care, because we have enough examples of our own more obvious dirty linen on that front (as does everyone sadly), but that is news to me and I have been around the party for 50+ years. Can you provide a link/reference?
Well I should have done a google search first, shouldn't I? I always thought he was a Tory supporter (again not that it matters).
From Wilson to Brown only John Major seems to have avoided being photographed with Savile. That would have been an interesting question for Agnew to have asked him yesterday on TMS.
Reform may well destroy Labour in Wales, but will destroy the Conservatives too.
I suspect that Plaid will do well too, even without @HYUFD helping.
Reform are already saying they are the only alternative to a Plaid and Labour regime in Wales
The Welsh Tories seem pretty gross to be fair - probably no loss to the public realm, but if they want to get anywhere they need an inspiring idea - I actually think Mark's long mooted tidal scheme could be that.
They are suffering from Reform popularity and will struggle next May
Indeed Wales could be a Plaid Reform Senedd with both the conservatives and labour in dire straits
If Plaid and Reform form a coalition that would be the end of Plaid.
Reform might allow a minority PC administration to govern for a couple of years, just to see the back of Labour for the first time since the Welsh parliament/assembly was set up.
I see Farage wants tougher abortion laws. Does he have his own ideas, or does he just do whatever the US Right says now?
This is the big worry with Farage. Becoming purely an appendage of a Trumpian U.S.,with all that might bring along with it for democracy and the rule of law
Surely this is the ticking time bomb?
Hmmmm
Saville was not a political figure open about his views, though.
Savile was very open about politics. His support of Israel for one.
More people know who Savile is than this bald guy the BBC go on about a lot.
I doubt the picture will hurt Farage, but keep hoping.
The right way to neuter Farage is for the govt to start delivering and making people’s lives better. I can see why they, and their fans, resort to other methods as that seems out of their reach.
You must listen to different BBC News sources to me. Tate is reported on factually, i.e. whoever he is subjected to a legal issue the BBC report that issue. Farage and Reform on the other hand are given a free pass on pretty much everything. Evan Davis was last night supportive of Farage and critical of Starmer's attack in a conversation with Darren Jones. I don't believe Davis is fanboying Farage but they are desperate for the Farage rags to riches political story to be true.
As to Labour standing or falling on their record that is absolutely fair, however both the Conservatives and Labour for their own survival need to call out Farage's fantasy economics.
Reform will soon have records to defend. The press could, and should, be forensic in their analysis of their performance. Forget the DEI/Net zero/performative crap. Focus on delivery or lack of.
In Durham we were promised a forensic audit of expenditure with money being clawed back. Yeah right. I discussed this on a local group on FB with Andrew Husband, now council leader.
I gave him my view that the only beneficiary of a spend audit will be the auditors and how much will that cost.
Farage’s commitments don’t add up either. They should be subject to more scrutiny. This is a party leading the polls.
I don't agree. There is a serious issue with procurement contracts in local Government and there are millions wasted. This needs to be exposed and dealt with, whoever is in office.
Okay, well let’s see what, if anything, comes out of it.
It just struck me as posturing for votes rather than anything concrete.
Sia Yusuf's Spectator TV interview on what Reform will do (he says) in local Government is a good watch and reassuring.
Morning all. Very weirdly all reference to the local by election Con gain in Maldon last night seem to have been memory holed on twitter with some suggestion its counting today......the tweet from which i copied the result has disappeared so my sincere apologies if that turns out to have been fake news
Yep, pretty much confirmed. One or two people got a bit excited and confused their Maldon Wests with their Maldon Norths. Counting starts at 10.30 this morning for Maldon West.
Happy to discuss the strong LD hold in Newhaven.
Was about to post again yes appears to have been Maldon North from March! I think because that one also didnt have a Lab candidate it confused the world in the wee hours. Again, apologies from me to all, it was late and seemed official enough (and the vote share chsngd calcs fitted but obvs theyd just retrofitted those). I'd not intentionally mislead. Newhaven again a strong LD hold yes, i think Lewes looks safe! Reform hoovering up the second place is different to last weeks holds and the Tory vote collapsed to buttons alongside Labours even smaller buttons
If everyone posted a correction every time they got something wrong here it would almost double the number of posts. Think about how many extra posts we would have to read from Leon!
I see Farage wants tougher abortion laws. Does he have his own ideas, or does he just do whatever the US Right says now?
This is the big worry with Farage. Becoming purely an appendage of a Trumpian U.S.,with all that might bring along with it for democracy and the rule of law
Surely this is the ticking time bomb?
Hmmmm
Not the same though is it? Saville wasn't known about at the time of those meetings. Tate was.
Re Farage's views on abortion - I think it is unfair to taint him with the US stance on this. Having listened to him, he clearly thinks it is a matter of conscious and wasn't making it a party line and only seemed to have an issue with the edge cases citing the 22 - 24 week issue.
Having said both of those things it is perception rather than facts that will probably count with the electorate.
Tate is surely innocent until proven guilty?
You’d like to think he has the presumption of innocence. However when it comes to politics that flies out the window, some the time.
As for Savile, it may not have been known officially as a fact but it was certainly rumoured and discussed and there was awareness.
I find it impossible to believe politicians at that level would not, at least, have an inkling or know of the rumours. Or their party machine know of the rumours.
I see Farage wants tougher abortion laws. Does he have his own ideas, or does he just do whatever the US Right says now?
This is the big worry with Farage. Becoming purely an appendage of a Trumpian U.S.,with all that might bring along with it for democracy and the rule of law
Surely this is the ticking time bomb?
Hmmmm
Saville was not a political figure open about his views, though.
Savile was very open about politics. His support of Israel for one.
More people know who Savile is than this bald guy the BBC go on about a lot.
I doubt the picture will hurt Farage, but keep hoping.
The right way to neuter Farage is for the govt to start delivering and making people’s lives better. I can see why they, and their fans, resort to other methods as that seems out of their reach.
You must listen to different BBC News sources to me. Tate is reported on factually, i.e. whoever he is subjected to a legal issue the BBC report that issue. Farage and Reform on the other hand are given a free pass on pretty much everything. Evan Davis was last night supportive of Farage and critical of Starmer's attack in a conversation with Darren Jones. I don't believe Davis is fanboying Farage but they are desperate for the Farage rags to riches political story to be true.
As to Labour standing or falling on their record that is absolutely fair, however both the Conservatives and Labour for their own survival need to call out Farage's fantasy economics.
Reform will soon have records to defend. The press could, and should, be forensic in their analysis of their performance. Forget the DEI/Net zero/performative crap. Focus on delivery or lack of.
In Durham we were promised a forensic audit of expenditure with money being clawed back. Yeah right. I discussed this on a local group on FB with Andrew Husband, now council leader.
I gave him my view that the only beneficiary of a spend audit will be the auditors and how much will that cost.
Farage’s commitments don’t add up either. They should be subject to more scrutiny. This is a party leading the polls.
I don't agree. There is a serious issue with procurement contracts in local Government and there are millions wasted. This needs to be exposed and dealt with, whoever is in office.
That's a throwaway comment.
"Procurement contracts" - contracts to procure what, specifically? I have a little experience in this area. If we're talking about professional services, in the initial stages of contracting out, the contracts were poor, the Council's own legal teams are frequently outmanoeuvred by those from private companies who had much more experience arranging contracts.
Clauses were put in which more or less guaranteed steady and prolonged income growth for the private company - it got to the stage when one maintenance contractor was charging a council £120 to change a light bulb at a residential care home.
Contracts now are much tighter - indeed, some private companies complain there's no money for them doing public sector works and of course the council doesn't have to operate to profit margins.
Last nights Canvey Island Reform success has wrecked a council oddity - Castle Point DC was the only council in England with no Con, Lab, Ref, LD or Green councillors. Its still the only one with no Con, Lab, LD or Green
A barrister friend who works in the area reckons that if Hitler had invaded, he could have recruited a British SS on Canvey Island.
Last nights Canvey Island Reform success has wrecked a council oddity - Castle Point DC was the only council in England with no Con, Lab, Ref, LD or Green councillors. Its still the only one with no Con, Lab, LD or Green
A barrister friend who works in the area reckons that if Hitler had invaded, he could have recruited a British SS on Canvey Island.
Really. Was he working there in the early 1940’s ?
There was a British SS. None seem to have come from Canvey Island.
I lived there in the 1940’s. While obviously I was only a child I don’t recall any suggestions of disloyalty. What surprises me in retrospect is that the schools were full and there was no evacuation, as there was in Southend and Grays.
I see Farage wants tougher abortion laws. Does he have his own ideas, or does he just do whatever the US Right says now?
This is the big worry with Farage. Becoming purely an appendage of a Trumpian U.S.,with all that might bring along with it for democracy and the rule of law
Surely this is the ticking time bomb?
Hmmmm
Saville was not a political figure open about his views, though.
Yes he was, he campaigned for the Liberal Party.
Not that I care, because we have enough examples of our own more obvious dirty linen on that front (as does everyone sadly), but that is news to me and I have been around the party for 50+ years. Can you provide a link/reference?
Well I should have done a google search first, shouldn't I? I always thought he was a Tory supporter (again not that it matters).
Savile was a Liberal supporter in the 1970s and made a broadcast with Thorpe, then a Thatcher and Tory supporter in the 1980s, then got closer to Blair and New Labour in the 2000s. He basically sucked up to those with power https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1RN0BQsBsE
I see Farage wants tougher abortion laws. Does he have his own ideas, or does he just do whatever the US Right says now?
This is the big worry with Farage. Becoming purely an appendage of a Trumpian U.S.,with all that might bring along with it for democracy and the rule of law
Surely this is the ticking time bomb?
Hmmmm
Not the same though is it? Saville wasn't known about at the time of those meetings. Tate was.
Re Farage's views on abortion - I think it is unfair to taint him with the US stance on this. Having listened to him, he clearly thinks it is a matter of conscious and wasn't making it a party line and only seemed to have an issue with the edge cases citing the 22 - 24 week issue.
Having said both of those things it is perception rather than facts that will probably count with the electorate.
Tate is surely innocent until proven guilty?
a) We are talking about the public's perception here not facts. See my last sentence.
b) It is not just Tate's alleged criminality that is an issue is it? Would you want to be associated with his social media content.
At the end of the day though he is far less well known than Saville and I agree with @Taz it will have very little impact unless the other parties can make it a thing. Association with Trump is more useful I think.
TFL have advised staff not to confront people they think might be dangerous, they have to call in officers trained in 'enforcement' - which merely begs the question, how many of these stations have these enforcement staff, and where are they? Anyone dodging a barrier has committed a crime, so don't they all present the possibility of danger? So what's the point of having people who aren't trained to enforce the rules?
It is understood that TfL tells station staff that they are expected to assist customers to pay the correct fare for their journeys and encourage everyone to tap in.
But the network says that if a member of staff judges it is not safe to intervene, they are encouraged to report incidents they witness to inform the deployment of enforcement staff.
Most stations don't have enforcement staff, they just have one or two ordinary TFL staff members. And, as you say, they've been told not to intervene in case it's dangerous.
Would you want to confront four or five large young gentlemen pushing through the barrier? I wouldn't - I suspect even Robert Jenrick wouldn't.
Should there be permanent security staff at every problematic tube station? Might help though the evaders will do to another station.
I see Farage wants tougher abortion laws. Does he have his own ideas, or does he just do whatever the US Right says now?
This is the big worry with Farage. Becoming purely an appendage of a Trumpian U.S.,with all that might bring along with it for democracy and the rule of law
Surely this is the ticking time bomb?
Hmmmm
Saville was not a political figure open about his views, though.
Savile was very open about politics. His support of Israel for one.
More people know who Savile is than this bald guy the BBC go on about a lot.
I doubt the picture will hurt Farage, but keep hoping.
The right way to neuter Farage is for the govt to start delivering and making people’s lives better. I can see why they, and their fans, resort to other methods as that seems out of their reach.
Probably depends on your demographic, youngest demographics probably know Tate but not Savile. I expect you'd be correct if you said "most voters".
TFL have advised staff not to confront people they think might be dangerous, they have to call in officers trained in 'enforcement' - which merely begs the question, how many of these stations have these enforcement staff, and where are they? Anyone dodging a barrier has committed a crime, so don't they all present the possibility of danger? So what's the point of having people who aren't trained to enforce the rules?
It is understood that TfL tells station staff that they are expected to assist customers to pay the correct fare for their journeys and encourage everyone to tap in.
But the network says that if a member of staff judges it is not safe to intervene, they are encouraged to report incidents they witness to inform the deployment of enforcement staff.
Most stations don't have enforcement staff, they just have one or two ordinary TFL staff members. And, as you say, they've been told not to intervene in case it's dangerous.
Would you want to confront four or five large young gentlemen pushing through the barrier? I wouldn't - I suspect even Robert Jenrick wouldn't.
Should there be permanent security staff at every problematic tube station? Might help though the evaders will do to another station.
Mobile swat squads attending stations randomly would be the most cost effective way of reducing fare evasion.
Tim Montgomerie is on the Jeremy Vine show now. Is he ill? He seems to have developed a strange way of talking
Jeffrey Archer is on too
I think he seems it. He has also taken to wearing very comfy clothes, no shirts and ties. I have no powers of diagnosis, but it seems almost Parkinson like to me, and it's very sad if so. I wish him all the best; he's a fine man.
I see Farage wants tougher abortion laws. Does he have his own ideas, or does he just do whatever the US Right says now?
This is the big worry with Farage. Becoming purely an appendage of a Trumpian U.S.,with all that might bring along with it for democracy and the rule of law
Surely this is the ticking time bomb?
Hmmmm
Saville was not a political figure open about his views, though.
Yes he was, he campaigned for the Liberal Party.
Not that I care, because we have enough examples of our own more obvious dirty linen on that front (as does everyone sadly), but that is news to me and I have been around the party for 50+ years. Can you provide a link/reference?
Well I should have done a google search first, shouldn't I? I always thought he was a Tory supporter (again not that it matters).
From Wilson to Brown only John Major seems to have avoided being photographed with Savile. That would have been an interesting question for Agnew to have asked him yesterday on TMS.
I see Farage wants tougher abortion laws. Does he have his own ideas, or does he just do whatever the US Right says now?
This is the big worry with Farage. Becoming purely an appendage of a Trumpian U.S.,with all that might bring along with it for democracy and the rule of law
Surely this is the ticking time bomb?
Hmmmm
Saville was not a political figure open about his views, though.
Yes he was, he campaigned for the Liberal Party.
Not that I care, because we have enough examples of our own more obvious dirty linen on that front (as does everyone sadly), but that is news to me and I have been around the party for 50+ years. Can you provide a link/reference?
Well I should have done a google search first, shouldn't I? I always thought he was a Tory supporter (again not that it matters).
Savile was a Liberal supporter in the 1970s and made a broadcast with Thorpe, then a Thatcher and Tory supporter in the 1980s, then got closer to Blair and New Labour in the 2000s. He basically sucked up to those with power https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1RN0BQsBsE
Someone should keep a list of the names of people like that.
I don’t know if it will make a difference politically but surely it was incredibly silly for Farage to praise Truss’s Budget so clearly.
Don't you feel its a bit silly of Starmer to go for Farage over fiscal probity, when Starmer himself now needs to loosen the fiscal constraints to keep his party loyal and voters onside? Farage's gambit could almost have been written by Cummings, and perhaps was (sadly - I'm not the biggest fan).
Last nights Canvey Island Reform success has wrecked a council oddity - Castle Point DC was the only council in England with no Con, Lab, Ref, LD or Green councillors. Its still the only one with no Con, Lab, LD or Green
A barrister friend who works in the area reckons that if Hitler had invaded, he could have recruited a British SS on Canvey Island.
In all fairness to Canvey Island, that could be said of many parts of Britain. So as it stands the only thing to come out of Oil City of note was oil and Dr Feelgood.
TFL have advised staff not to confront people they think might be dangerous, they have to call in officers trained in 'enforcement' - which merely begs the question, how many of these stations have these enforcement staff, and where are they? Anyone dodging a barrier has committed a crime, so don't they all present the possibility of danger? So what's the point of having people who aren't trained to enforce the rules?
It is understood that TfL tells station staff that they are expected to assist customers to pay the correct fare for their journeys and encourage everyone to tap in.
But the network says that if a member of staff judges it is not safe to intervene, they are encouraged to report incidents they witness to inform the deployment of enforcement staff.
Most stations don't have enforcement staff, they just have one or two ordinary TFL staff members. And, as you say, they've been told not to intervene in case it's dangerous.
Would you want to confront four or five large young gentlemen pushing through the barrier? I wouldn't - I suspect even Robert Jenrick wouldn't.
Should there be permanent security staff at every problematic tube station? Might help though the evaders will do to another station.
Mobile swat squads attending stations randomly would be the most cost effective way of reducing fare evasion.
They used to have one of those at Oxford Circle in the morning rush hour when I was a commuter. There's a bend in the pedestrian tunnel from the Bakerloo Line to the Central Line, and the inspectors used to lurk around the corner. Anyone who saw them and turned round was then captured on the way back. Surprisingly simple, and apparently effective.
The great thing about the Jenrick video is that all the toerags he challenged appeared to be hearty British Anglo-Saxon types. Nice to see the Tories have returned to their proud tradition of chav bashing. There was a time around Brexit when we were implored by the British Right to love and respect white working-class culture - Status Quo FFS - so it's great to see Jenrick shoving that aside and dealing with the sensibilities of only nice people. Go for it Jenners! I'm onboard!
TFL have advised staff not to confront people they think might be dangerous, they have to call in officers trained in 'enforcement' - which merely begs the question, how many of these stations have these enforcement staff, and where are they? Anyone dodging a barrier has committed a crime, so don't they all present the possibility of danger? So what's the point of having people who aren't trained to enforce the rules?
It is understood that TfL tells station staff that they are expected to assist customers to pay the correct fare for their journeys and encourage everyone to tap in.
But the network says that if a member of staff judges it is not safe to intervene, they are encouraged to report incidents they witness to inform the deployment of enforcement staff.
Most stations don't have enforcement staff, they just have one or two ordinary TFL staff members. And, as you say, they've been told not to intervene in case it's dangerous.
Incidentally, does anyone else find there was a certain irony in Jenrick confronting fare dodgers while he himself had not paid the necessary fee to carry out filming?
Does he not realise there might just be a tiny issue there?
Er, no. Bodycams are worn all the time by police and ticket inspectors, cyclists and runners have GoPros, the stations are littered with CCTV, and everyone Vlogs or films stuff on their phones all the time.
No-one gives the slightest fuck mate. This is all about TfL (and Khan) being pissed off a Tory politician did an expose and embarrassed them.
Nothing more, nothing less.
Er, no. I don't think you quite understand the problem. You are allowed to take images or videos in any place open to the public for personal use. (Staff have permission from the employer so your examples are not relevant.)
You are not allowed to take them on land that is privately owned even if it is open to the public for non-personal particularly commercial use without prior written permission and probably payment of a fee.
Does Jenrick's behaviour count as 'commercial use?' Very probably. Or to put it another way, as TikTok is riddled with adverts it will have been used commercially at some level. At the very least, as he's admitted breaking the rules and he is after all a lawyer albeit a rather bad one, he clearly thinks so.
So he's done (checks notes) exactly what he was calling out other people for doing.
And there's every chance he will get an FPN for it.
Because he's thick as mince as well as a nasty piece of work, he can't spot the irony, but those of us who see this Mickey Mouse politician for what he is can enjoy it and point and laugh at him.
(At the very least, such entitlement and lack of judgement demonstrates if further demonstration were needed of why he's unfit for political office.)
TFL have advised staff not to confront people they think might be dangerous, they have to call in officers trained in 'enforcement' - which merely begs the question, how many of these stations have these enforcement staff, and where are they? Anyone dodging a barrier has committed a crime, so don't they all present the possibility of danger? So what's the point of having people who aren't trained to enforce the rules?
It is understood that TfL tells station staff that they are expected to assist customers to pay the correct fare for their journeys and encourage everyone to tap in.
But the network says that if a member of staff judges it is not safe to intervene, they are encouraged to report incidents they witness to inform the deployment of enforcement staff.
Most stations don't have enforcement staff, they just have one or two ordinary TFL staff members. And, as you say, they've been told not to intervene in case it's dangerous.
Would you want to confront four or five large young gentlemen pushing through the barrier? I wouldn't - I suspect even Robert Jenrick wouldn't.
Should there be permanent security staff at every problematic tube station? Might help though the evaders will do to another station.
Mobile swat squads attending stations randomly would be the most cost effective way of reducing fare evasion.
Which is roughly what happens. Arguably it doesn't happen enough, but that's a question of how much money TfL is prepared/able to spend to catch how many fare dodgers.
I see Farage wants tougher abortion laws. Does he have his own ideas, or does he just do whatever the US Right says now?
This is the big worry with Farage. Becoming purely an appendage of a Trumpian U.S.,with all that might bring along with it for democracy and the rule of law
Surely this is the ticking time bomb?
Hmmmm
Saville was not a political figure open about his views, though.
Yes he was, he campaigned for the Liberal Party.
Not that I care, because we have enough examples of our own more obvious dirty linen on that front (as does everyone sadly), but that is news to me and I have been around the party for 50+ years. Can you provide a link/reference?
Well I should have done a google search first, shouldn't I? I always thought he was a Tory supporter (again not that it matters).
Savile was a Liberal supporter in the 1970s and made a broadcast with Thorpe, then a Thatcher and Tory supporter in the 1980s, then got closer to Blair and New Labour in the 2000s. He basically sucked up to those with power https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1RN0BQsBsE
Yes, I doubt Jimmy Savile had a coherent political position derived from his fundamental principles and world view.
I see Farage wants tougher abortion laws. Does he have his own ideas, or does he just do whatever the US Right says now?
This is the big worry with Farage. Becoming purely an appendage of a Trumpian U.S.,with all that might bring along with it for democracy and the rule of law
Surely this is the ticking time bomb?
Hmmmm
Saville was not a political figure open about his views, though.
Yes he was, he campaigned for the Liberal Party.
Not that I care, because we have enough examples of our own more obvious dirty linen on that front (as does everyone sadly), but that is news to me and I have been around the party for 50+ years. Can you provide a link/reference?
Well I should have done a google search first, shouldn't I? I always thought he was a Tory supporter (again not that it matters).
Savile was a Liberal supporter in the 1970s and made a broadcast with Thorpe, then a Thatcher and Tory supporter in the 1980s, then got closer to Blair and New Labour in the 2000s. He basically sucked up to those with power https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1RN0BQsBsE
I would agree with that. Although it was complete news to me regarding that broadcast for which I thank @Luckyguy1983 . It was interesting to watch because the first question was from Gerald Howarth. Not exactly a liberal by any stretch of the imagination. A good Conservative question and a good Liberal answer. It was rather game (or stupid?) of Gerald Howarth to do it. It made the Liberals look very open to allow an opponent to ask a question on a party political broadcast, but of course if it had gone pearshaped it could have been edited out (assuming it wasn't live).
I can't really find any other link of Saville and the Liberals and he was setting himself up to be an independent chair here (although one presumes he wasn't, unless they paid him a lot, which seems doubtful bearing in mind this was the Liberals)
Celebrity endorsements are a dodgy thing. They often go wrong.
On Nigel Farage and Andrew Tate, I think Farage has more to worry about in what he said in promoting Tate as "an important voice", rather than just pictures. It's all recent. This is a June 2024 piece reporting Farage comments in Feb 2024:
Nigel Farage has praised the misogynist influencer Andrew Tate for being an “important voice” for the “emasculated” and giving boys “perhaps a bit of confidence at school” in online interviews that appear to be aimed at young men over the past year.
Andrew Tate says women belong in the home, can’t drive, and are a man’s property.
He also thinks rape victims must “bear responsibility” for their attacks and dates women aged 18–19 because he can “make an imprint” on them, according to videos posted online.
I see Farage wants tougher abortion laws. Does he have his own ideas, or does he just do whatever the US Right says now?
This is the big worry with Farage. Becoming purely an appendage of a Trumpian U.S.,with all that might bring along with it for democracy and the rule of law
Surely this is the ticking time bomb?
Hmmmm
Saville was not a political figure open about his views, though.
Yes he was, he campaigned for the Liberal Party.
Not that I care, because we have enough examples of our own more obvious dirty linen on that front (as does everyone sadly), but that is news to me and I have been around the party for 50+ years. Can you provide a link/reference?
Well I should have done a google search first, shouldn't I? I always thought he was a Tory supporter (again not that it matters).
Savile was a Liberal supporter in the 1970s and made a broadcast with Thorpe, then a Thatcher and Tory supporter in the 1980s, then got closer to Blair and New Labour in the 2000s. He basically sucked up to those with power https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1RN0BQsBsE
Yes, I doubt Jimmy Savile had a coherent political position derived from his fundamental principles and world view.
And that's about the best we can say of him.
I think we can safely assume Savile would now be a big Reform supporter though if he was still around and had not yet been exposed
I see Farage wants tougher abortion laws. Does he have his own ideas, or does he just do whatever the US Right says now?
This is the big worry with Farage. Becoming purely an appendage of a Trumpian U.S.,with all that might bring along with it for democracy and the rule of law
Surely this is the ticking time bomb?
Hmmmm
Saville was not a political figure open about his views, though.
Yes he was, he campaigned for the Liberal Party.
Not that I care, because we have enough examples of our own more obvious dirty linen on that front (as does everyone sadly), but that is news to me and I have been around the party for 50+ years. Can you provide a link/reference?
Well I should have done a google search first, shouldn't I? I always thought he was a Tory supporter (again not that it matters).
Savile was a Liberal supporter in the 1970s and made a broadcast with Thorpe, then a Thatcher and Tory supporter in the 1980s, then got closer to Blair and New Labour in the 2000s. He basically sucked up to those with power https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1RN0BQsBsE
Yes, I doubt Jimmy Savile had a coherent political position derived from his fundamental principles and world view.
TFL have advised staff not to confront people they think might be dangerous, they have to call in officers trained in 'enforcement' - which merely begs the question, how many of these stations have these enforcement staff, and where are they? Anyone dodging a barrier has committed a crime, so don't they all present the possibility of danger? So what's the point of having people who aren't trained to enforce the rules?
It is understood that TfL tells station staff that they are expected to assist customers to pay the correct fare for their journeys and encourage everyone to tap in.
But the network says that if a member of staff judges it is not safe to intervene, they are encouraged to report incidents they witness to inform the deployment of enforcement staff.
Most stations don't have enforcement staff, they just have one or two ordinary TFL staff members. And, as you say, they've been told not to intervene in case it's dangerous.
Would you want to confront four or five large young gentlemen pushing through the barrier? I wouldn't - I suspect even Robert Jenrick wouldn't.
Should there be permanent security staff at every problematic tube station? Might help though the evaders will do to another station.
Mobile swat squads attending stations randomly would be the most cost effective way of reducing fare evasion.
Which is roughly what happens. Arguably it doesn't happen enough, but that's a question of how much money TfL is prepared/able to spend to catch how many fare dodgers.
I see Farage wants tougher abortion laws. Does he have his own ideas, or does he just do whatever the US Right says now?
This is the big worry with Farage. Becoming purely an appendage of a Trumpian U.S.,with all that might bring along with it for democracy and the rule of law
Surely this is the ticking time bomb?
Hmmmm
Saville was not a political figure open about his views, though.
Yes he was, he campaigned for the Liberal Party.
Not that I care, because we have enough examples of our own more obvious dirty linen on that front (as does everyone sadly), but that is news to me and I have been around the party for 50+ years. Can you provide a link/reference?
Well I should have done a google search first, shouldn't I? I always thought he was a Tory supporter (again not that it matters).
Savile was a Liberal supporter in the 1970s and made a broadcast with Thorpe, then a Thatcher and Tory supporter in the 1980s, then got closer to Blair and New Labour in the 2000s. He basically sucked up to those with power https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1RN0BQsBsE
Like @kjh I was around the (admittedly lower levels of) the Liberal Party in the 70's and I don't recall Saville as a significant figure. He wasn't someone that I heard people from our neighbouring target seat talking about. But obviously he did do bits. That was a time when he was starting to make his name, of course. And long before the truth came out.
TFL have advised staff not to confront people they think might be dangerous, they have to call in officers trained in 'enforcement' - which merely begs the question, how many of these stations have these enforcement staff, and where are they? Anyone dodging a barrier has committed a crime, so don't they all present the possibility of danger? So what's the point of having people who aren't trained to enforce the rules?
It is understood that TfL tells station staff that they are expected to assist customers to pay the correct fare for their journeys and encourage everyone to tap in.
But the network says that if a member of staff judges it is not safe to intervene, they are encouraged to report incidents they witness to inform the deployment of enforcement staff.
Most stations don't have enforcement staff, they just have one or two ordinary TFL staff members. And, as you say, they've been told not to intervene in case it's dangerous.
Would you want to confront four or five large young gentlemen pushing through the barrier? I wouldn't - I suspect even Robert Jenrick wouldn't.
Should there be permanent security staff at every problematic tube station? Might help though the evaders will do to another station.
Mobile swat squads attending stations randomly would be the most cost effective way of reducing fare evasion.
Which is roughly what happens. Arguably it doesn't happen enough, but that's a question of how much money TfL is prepared/able to spend to catch how many fare dodgers.
It's not an exercise that requires a Cost/Benefit Analysis. It needs to be done because it's the right thing to do, it reassures the law-abiding and discourages the dishonest, the arrogant and the people who think the rules don't apply to them.
Last nights Canvey Island Reform success has wrecked a council oddity - Castle Point DC was the only council in England with no Con, Lab, Ref, LD or Green councillors. Its still the only one with no Con, Lab, LD or Green
A barrister friend who works in the area reckons that if Hitler had invaded, he could have recruited a British SS on Canvey Island.
This may explain why the Luftwaffe never bombed Canvey.
Another theory is they thought it had already been done.
I see Farage wants tougher abortion laws. Does he have his own ideas, or does he just do whatever the US Right says now?
This is the big worry with Farage. Becoming purely an appendage of a Trumpian U.S.,with all that might bring along with it for democracy and the rule of law
Surely this is the ticking time bomb?
Hmmmm
Saville was not a political figure open about his views, though.
Yes he was, he campaigned for the Liberal Party.
Not that I care, because we have enough examples of our own more obvious dirty linen on that front (as does everyone sadly), but that is news to me and I have been around the party for 50+ years. Can you provide a link/reference?
Well I should have done a google search first, shouldn't I? I always thought he was a Tory supporter (again not that it matters).
Savile was a Liberal supporter in the 1970s and made a broadcast with Thorpe, then a Thatcher and Tory supporter in the 1980s, then got closer to Blair and New Labour in the 2000s. He basically sucked up to those with power https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1RN0BQsBsE
Yes, I doubt Jimmy Savile had a coherent political position derived from his fundamental principles and world view.
And that's about the best we can say of him.
When did Jeremy Thorpe have power?
He was seen as the future in the early 70s, wasn't he? Despair at the failures of the big two leaving space for a privately-educated chancer with a talent for retail politics...
TFL have advised staff not to confront people they think might be dangerous, they have to call in officers trained in 'enforcement' - which merely begs the question, how many of these stations have these enforcement staff, and where are they? Anyone dodging a barrier has committed a crime, so don't they all present the possibility of danger? So what's the point of having people who aren't trained to enforce the rules?
It is understood that TfL tells station staff that they are expected to assist customers to pay the correct fare for their journeys and encourage everyone to tap in.
But the network says that if a member of staff judges it is not safe to intervene, they are encouraged to report incidents they witness to inform the deployment of enforcement staff.
Most stations don't have enforcement staff, they just have one or two ordinary TFL staff members. And, as you say, they've been told not to intervene in case it's dangerous.
Would you want to confront four or five large young gentlemen pushing through the barrier? I wouldn't - I suspect even Robert Jenrick wouldn't.
Should there be permanent security staff at every problematic tube station? Might help though the evaders will do to another station.
Mobile swat squads attending stations randomly would be the most cost effective way of reducing fare evasion.
Which is roughly what happens. Arguably it doesn't happen enough, but that's a question of how much money TfL is prepared/able to spend to catch how many fare dodgers.
A crackdown on London Tube and bus fare dodgers cost around 20 times more than it clawed back over the past year, new figures show.
The problem is if you don't you end up with a situation like in NYC where on some bus route literally nobody pays and then the discussion changes to how to fund free travel for all.
And we have seen this with shoplifting. Tories downgrade it as a crime, police won't react to it, and it explodes, which ends with pasties in locked cabinets or in case of us loads of shops closing down in urban areas.
I see Farage wants tougher abortion laws. Does he have his own ideas, or does he just do whatever the US Right says now?
This is the big worry with Farage. Becoming purely an appendage of a Trumpian U.S.,with all that might bring along with it for democracy and the rule of law
Surely this is the ticking time bomb?
Hmmmm
Saville was not a political figure open about his views, though.
Yes he was, he campaigned for the Liberal Party.
Not that I care, because we have enough examples of our own more obvious dirty linen on that front (as does everyone sadly), but that is news to me and I have been around the party for 50+ years. Can you provide a link/reference?
Well I should have done a google search first, shouldn't I? I always thought he was a Tory supporter (again not that it matters).
Savile was a Liberal supporter in the 1970s and made a broadcast with Thorpe, then a Thatcher and Tory supporter in the 1980s, then got closer to Blair and New Labour in the 2000s. He basically sucked up to those with power https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1RN0BQsBsE
Yes, I doubt Jimmy Savile had a coherent political position derived from his fundamental principles and world view.
And that's about the best we can say of him.
When did Jeremy Thorpe have power?
I'm on a roll of cockups this morning. I nearly posted the Lib-Lab pact. I had the foresight to think again after the last error. However I am too honest not to own up that I nearly did it.
I see Farage wants tougher abortion laws. Does he have his own ideas, or does he just do whatever the US Right says now?
This is the big worry with Farage. Becoming purely an appendage of a Trumpian U.S.,with all that might bring along with it for democracy and the rule of law
Surely this is the ticking time bomb?
Hmmmm
Saville was not a political figure open about his views, though.
Yes he was, he campaigned for the Liberal Party.
Not that I care, because we have enough examples of our own more obvious dirty linen on that front (as does everyone sadly), but that is news to me and I have been around the party for 50+ years. Can you provide a link/reference?
Well I should have done a google search first, shouldn't I? I always thought he was a Tory supporter (again not that it matters).
Savile was a Liberal supporter in the 1970s and made a broadcast with Thorpe, then a Thatcher and Tory supporter in the 1980s, then got closer to Blair and New Labour in the 2000s. He basically sucked up to those with power https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1RN0BQsBsE
Yes, I doubt Jimmy Savile had a coherent political position derived from his fundamental principles and world view.
And that's about the best we can say of him.
When did Jeremy Thorpe have power?
The Liberals made big gains in 1974 under Thorpe, indeed Heath nearly did a coalition deal with him in Feb 1974 to stay in office but pulled out after Thorpe wanted PR
TFL have advised staff not to confront people they think might be dangerous, they have to call in officers trained in 'enforcement' - which merely begs the question, how many of these stations have these enforcement staff, and where are they? Anyone dodging a barrier has committed a crime, so don't they all present the possibility of danger? So what's the point of having people who aren't trained to enforce the rules?
It is understood that TfL tells station staff that they are expected to assist customers to pay the correct fare for their journeys and encourage everyone to tap in.
But the network says that if a member of staff judges it is not safe to intervene, they are encouraged to report incidents they witness to inform the deployment of enforcement staff.
Most stations don't have enforcement staff, they just have one or two ordinary TFL staff members. And, as you say, they've been told not to intervene in case it's dangerous.
Would you want to confront four or five large young gentlemen pushing through the barrier? I wouldn't - I suspect even Robert Jenrick wouldn't.
Should there be permanent security staff at every problematic tube station? Might help though the evaders will do to another station.
Given that their seems to be no shortage of TFL officers, I think offering a pay enhancement to train in enforcement, and possibly give them the power to issue on-the-spot fines or other disincentives, would be a step. What is the point of all these ones who can't do anything, and who the fare dodgers know can't do anything?
TFL have advised staff not to confront people they think might be dangerous, they have to call in officers trained in 'enforcement' - which merely begs the question, how many of these stations have these enforcement staff, and where are they? Anyone dodging a barrier has committed a crime, so don't they all present the possibility of danger? So what's the point of having people who aren't trained to enforce the rules?
It is understood that TfL tells station staff that they are expected to assist customers to pay the correct fare for their journeys and encourage everyone to tap in.
But the network says that if a member of staff judges it is not safe to intervene, they are encouraged to report incidents they witness to inform the deployment of enforcement staff.
Most stations don't have enforcement staff, they just have one or two ordinary TFL staff members. And, as you say, they've been told not to intervene in case it's dangerous.
Would you want to confront four or five large young gentlemen pushing through the barrier? I wouldn't - I suspect even Robert Jenrick wouldn't.
Should there be permanent security staff at every problematic tube station? Might help though the evaders will do to another station.
Mobile swat squads attending stations randomly would be the most cost effective way of reducing fare evasion.
Which is roughly what happens. Arguably it doesn't happen enough, but that's a question of how much money TfL is prepared/able to spend to catch how many fare dodgers.
Comments
If this continues, next May will be an utter disaster for Labour in Wales and possibly even Scotland
Of course this is the most likely time for Badenoch to resign, but also Starmer's future will be under severe pressure
We hear Labour supporters saying there are 4 more years but not for Starmer on present trends
https://x.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1928222981307703731?t=JQMScs0Nanw1oMuGDr6xoQ&s=19
But in 2029 Jenrick will be up against a Prime Minister, Angela Rayner, who is of similar height. As with Rishi, he will be shot from below so perspective makes him seem taller. Kemi stands at 6 feet, apparently.
Hmm. Angela Rayner. Will people vote for a red-head? They did for Churchill but he was bald and television was black-and-white so perhaps no-one knew.
Secondly, since when did you ever give a shit about balance 😂😂😂😂
More musing on what was, and credit where it's due, an adroit piece of political campaigning by Robert Jenrick yesterday.
The piece was to make angry people angrier - it was full of that which irritates and annoys (and not without justification). It also recognised modern politics isn't about the debate, the search for a solution, but also about emotion and usually the negative ones such as fear and anger.
On all of those levels, it was a success.
It also reminded people there's another Conservative out there and for all his post-video protestations about loyalty to Kemi Badenoch and not wanting the leadership, that was a push for the leadership if there ever was one. "You don't need Boris when you've got Bobby" could be the slogan.
The style reminded me of Poilievre in Canada who got a 20-point lead by being angry about things (which Trump then threw away). Jenrick obviously thinks three or four years of "Mr Grumpy" will win him votes - maybe but politics isn't just about emotions, it's about solutions and as others have pointed out, there was no solution offered to fare evasion let alone the other "anti social" crimes such as shoplifting and phone theft.
I think if you're walking down a London street waving your Iphone 16 in the air you're asking for trouble - now, it shouldn't be like that but petty crime has always existed - it no more started last July than it did in 2010, 1979 or anywhen else. What we call muggings now have existed for centuries.
The truth is Transport for London probably accepts a level of evasion (just as Greggs and other stores accept a level of shop lifting) because the investment needed to reduce that level still further would be prohibitively expensive for their business. Government probably accepts a level of fraud in welfare, Councils accept a small amount of Council Tax won't be paid.
Ref 31 (+1)
Lab 22 (=)
Con 16 (-1)
LD 16 (=)
Green 9 (=)
SNP 2 (=)
Or perhaps we should look at the swinging cuts to the Met budget or the BTP budget. Both get some cash from TfL which again goes back to the "I'll bankrupt you letter"
Am I saying that Khan is a passenger? No. But politically the Tories need to be very careful because at the heart of this issue - and the entire rampant crime wave issue - is what they did to criminal justice. And people know it.
When we end up joining the likes of Russia and Belarus in removing international checks and balances from government policy his analogous comments have some salience.
More people know who Savile is than this bald guy the BBC go on about a lot.
I doubt the picture will hurt Farage, but keep hoping.
The right way to neuter Farage is for the govt to start delivering and making people’s lives better. I can see why they, and their fans, resort to other methods as that seems out of their reach.
If Jenrick went for drug drivers he'd deserve some praise, drug/drunk/reckless drivers are risking the lives of other innocent people. Fare dodgers are depriving tfl of income, which tfl has made a cost/benefit decision about. All Jenrick's probably achieved is to increase it.
Still it's a brave politician that criticises poor driving behaviours.
Kudos for doing so.
"We need to restore all of the money cut by Jenrick and his cronies so that we actually have the resources we need to stop this." etc
Khan is a bit of a lone wolf politically anyway, he won't mind putting Starmer under pressure. But you can't pull a tough guy mayor play if you don't have the police resources to clamp down. And he doesn't. And saying so makes the Tories look shit.
I suspect that Plaid will do well too, even without @HYUFD helping.
As to Labour standing or falling on their record that is absolutely fair, however both the Conservatives and Labour for their own survival need to call out Farage's fantasy economics.
Now please remove your scandalous accusations that I am an "unbalanced" (take that as you wish) poster.
Another day, another poll that shows Labour will continue to tread water until they show delivery.
Clearly the immigration numbers haven’t made a dent (as predicted by many here) but neither to be fair has Chagos or the various trade deals.
I can’t think changes to the WFA are going to change those numbers, nor any changes to the two child cap.
So Labour needs to start plugging away to make people feel better off and to change the perception that the country is broken. Robert Jenrick tapped into this feeling very effectively and credit to him for uncovering an issue that annoys many. One that also annoys me is cyclists just jumping red lights constantly. We talk about lawlessness, I think I’m the only cyclist in London that seems to have any awareness of the Highway Code.
The economic numbers for the first part of this year were actually quite good to much confusion but presumably they will now be significantly blown by everything post April.
At this point it will take many years of consistent delivery and improvement for Labour to change their position. Until then it’s Farage with the lead. But he will no doubt reach adversity and difficulty and we will wonder at some point if it’s as easy as it seems to be right now. I get the same feeling as when Johnson was riding high, nothing seemed to stick. Until it did.
For now though, things will stay as they are.
Much appreciated.
It is understood that TfL tells station staff that they are expected to assist customers to pay the correct fare for their journeys and encourage everyone to tap in.
But the network says that if a member of staff judges it is not safe to intervene, they are encouraged to report incidents they witness to inform the deployment of enforcement staff.
TfL has Transport Support and Enforcement (TSE) officers, trained to physically intervene with individuals who refuse to comply with TfL’s rules and bylaws.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/05/29/robert-jenrick-confronts-tube-fare-dodger-sadiq-khan/
In Durham we were promised a forensic audit of expenditure with money being clawed back. Yeah right. I discussed this on a local group on FB with Andrew Husband, now council leader.
I gave him my view that the only beneficiary of a spend audit will be the auditors and how much will that cost.
Farage’s commitments don’t add up either. They should be subject to more scrutiny. This is a party leading the polls.
Its still the only one with no Con, Lab, LD or Green
An interesting comparison of different podcasts, journos vs politicians vs academics, and the importance of sticking to the beat?
The Rest is Politics USA (here, Katty Kay) getting onto the threat to threat to Harvard and the USA science base, yesterday, with Michael Steele (ex-RNC chair). I'm not aware that they have done this subject before in depth:
https://youtu.be/7Y7fF6JVLcc?t=2365
The Rest is Politics did this some time ago with a more senior figure, around the initial assault on Harvard - Rory Stewart being a current Harvard Professor himself.
Here, I think we were talking about this back in March, due to Fiona Hill interviews, and her comment that 'Trump and his followers were killing the Golden Goose'. I posted that in mid-March - others may have been earlier.
Interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdgvrK3zyWU&t=2401s
Slightly in his defence, the passenger numbers show tube journeys during the week to be at 85% of pre-Covid numbers (bus numbers a little higher) so that's a key piece of income which they have lost (in common with other transport providers).
TfL are trying to make up the shortfall by cuts to Services - there are fewer tubes especially during the off-peak day time period and at weekends (the latter is odd because weekend leisure traffic has rebounded to be slightly above pre-Covid levels).
Tube staff have done very well out of Khan (as you might expect) and there's been little or no industrial action (again, as you might expect). The Elizabeth Line has been a huge success and it's given a boost to those advocating other improvements such as the Bakerloo Line extension and even the North-South Crossrail link.
That said, so many Londoners rely on public transport it needs to work well and be run well.
Revenue protection will target easy targets. A business traveller who bought the wrong ticket, for example, but a group of lads who jumped on without a ticket just allowed to get off.
This was 2001, so it is not new. But it feels like it is getting worse.
It does suggest a Labour collapse in Wales. Starmer needs to stop the boats.
Indeed Wales could be a Plaid Reform Senedd with both the conservatives and labour in dire straits
It just struck me as posturing for votes rather than anything concrete.
That is an opportunity for the Govt if they get their comms strategy together. Jenrick's hypocrisy is so blatant that a 2 day old kitten could see it.
There was a British SS. None seem to have come from Canvey Island.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Free_Corps
https://news.sky.com/story/jimmy-saviles-love-for-margaret-thatcher-10459551
From Wilson to Brown only John Major seems to have avoided being photographed with Savile.
That would have been an interesting question for Agnew to have asked him yesterday on TMS.
As for Savile, it may not have been known officially as a fact but it was certainly rumoured and discussed and there was awareness.
I find it impossible to believe politicians at that level would not, at least, have an inkling or know of the rumours. Or their party machine know of the rumours.
Francis Rossi here.
https://youtu.be/cLoMW06neBY?si=qdmO3i8eJsnZHD2Y
"Procurement contracts" - contracts to procure what, specifically? I have a little experience in this area. If we're talking about professional services, in the initial stages of contracting out, the contracts were poor, the Council's own legal teams are frequently outmanoeuvred by those from private companies who had much more experience arranging contracts.
Clauses were put in which more or less guaranteed steady and prolonged income growth for the private company - it got to the stage when one maintenance contractor was charging a council £120 to change a light bulb at a residential care home.
Contracts now are much tighter - indeed, some private companies complain there's no money for them doing public sector works and of course the council doesn't have to operate to profit margins.
What surprises me in retrospect is that the schools were full and there was no evacuation, as there was in Southend and Grays.
I must have missed that in my Covid haze*.
Welcome back.
*If I have been unusually rude to anyone over the last few days, apologies. I've been feeling crap, and that tends to make me grumpy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1RN0BQsBsE
b) It is not just Tate's alleged criminality that is an issue is it? Would you want to be associated with his social media content.
At the end of the day though he is far less well known than Saville and I agree with @Taz it will have very little impact unless the other parties can make it a thing. Association with Trump is more useful I think.
Jeffrey Archer is on too
Should there be permanent security staff at every problematic tube station? Might help though the evaders will do to another station.
I expect you'd be correct if you said "most voters".
@Mexicanpete tried his best but to no avail. We don't want dissidents criticising the good and the "right"eous.
https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/usercode.py?scotcontrol=N&CON=16&LAB=22&LIB=16&Reform=31&Green=9&UKIP=&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVReform=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=&SCOTLAB=&SCOTLIB=&SCOTReform=&SCOTGreen=&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2024base
And that's about the best we can say of him.
I can't really find any other link of Saville and the Liberals and he was setting himself up to be an independent chair here (although one presumes he wasn't, unless they paid him a lot, which seems doubtful bearing in mind this was the Liberals)
Celebrity endorsements are a dodgy thing. They often go wrong.
Nigel Farage has praised the misogynist influencer Andrew Tate for being an “important voice” for the “emasculated” and giving boys “perhaps a bit of confidence at school” in online interviews that appear to be aimed at young men over the past year.
The Reform UK leader spoke in favour of Tate for defending “male culture” in a Strike It Big podcast that aired in February, while acknowledging that the influencer had gone “over the top” and elsewhere that he had said some “pretty horrible” things.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jun/20/nigel-farage-andrew-tate-important-voice-men-podcast-interview
Tate's stance:
Andrew Tate says women belong in the home, can’t drive, and are a man’s property.
He also thinks rape victims must “bear responsibility” for their attacks and dates women aged 18–19 because he can “make an imprint” on them, according to videos posted online.
In other clips, the British-American kickboxer – who poses with fast cars, guns and portrays himself as a cigar-smoking playboy – talks about hitting and choking women, trashing their belongings and stopping them from going out.
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/aug/06/andrew-tate-violent-misogynistic-world-of-tiktok-new-star
A crackdown on London Tube and bus fare dodgers cost around 20 times more than it clawed back over the past year, new figures show.
But obviously he did do bits. That was a time when he was starting to make his name, of course. And long before the truth came out.
Another theory is they thought it had already been done.
And we have seen this with shoplifting. Tories downgrade it as a crime, police won't react to it, and it explodes, which ends with pasties in locked cabinets or in case of us loads of shops closing down in urban areas.