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The tip of the iceberg that is the Truss legacy – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,495
edited May 30 in General
The tip of the iceberg that is the Truss legacy – politicalbetting.com

It is interesting that Starmer is following the lead of the Shadow Home Secretary Chris Philp who has warned that Farage’s economic policies are ‘Liz Truss on steroids‘ I suspect this is something we will be hearing a lot from the traditional big two parties and I will interesting to see how this polling moves over time.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,878
    Lettuce pray the message resonates.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,161
    edited May 30
    ydoethur said:

    Lettuce pray the message resonates.

    Yay, somebody spotted my subtle lettuce pun in the headline.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,878

    ydoethur said:

    Lettuce pray the message resonates.

    Yay, somebody spotted my subtle lettuce pun in the headline.
    Yes, but I bet it will get a frosty reception.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,161
    FPT
    Cookie said:

    Cicero said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Taz said:

    Reform gain in Canvey island in a local by election

    Lib Dem’s held a seat in Lewes too

    https://x.com/electionmapsuk/status/1928227350237352042?s=61

    It's weird, but it does seem like the world is coming down to Libdems v Reform.

    It's like choosing between syphilis and gonorrhea.
    I think it is a particularly deep anti Liberal prejudice that regards that choice between opposites as some kind of a twofer.
    Well not really. I can't claim personal experience, but gonorrhea is surely much preferable to syphilis. This analogy isn't about a choice between two equally bad optioms but about a choice between a bad option and a worse one.
    A maxim that has served me well in life is 'never trust anybody who spells gonorrhoea correctly on the first attempt.'

    I have begun work reports/PB headers with that line.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 14,485
    Morning all, what's Jenners up to today? Last seen rounding the East Goodwin Lightship in a canoe asking refugees if they have knives and livestreaming about that complete fucking prick who Minister of State for Immigration during the Boriswave.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,161
    Dura_Ace said:

    Morning all, what's Jenners up to today? Last seen rounding the East Goodwin Lightship in a canoe asking refugees if they have knives and livestreaming about that complete fucking prick who Minister of State for Immigration during the Boriswave.

    I am visiting London by train today and I am worried I might run into Jenrick at St Pancras and he'll ask to see my ticket.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,789
    Dura_Ace said:

    Morning all, what's Jenners up to today? Last seen rounding the East Goodwin Lightship in a canoe asking refugees if they have knives and livestreaming about that complete fucking prick who Minister of State for Immigration during the Boriswave.

    Jenrick is taking a leaf from Daveys campaigning book.

    First you have to get noticed, and he has.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 14,485

    Dura_Ace said:

    Morning all, what's Jenners up to today? Last seen rounding the East Goodwin Lightship in a canoe asking refugees if they have knives and livestreaming about that complete fucking prick who Minister of State for Immigration during the Boriswave.

    I am visiting London by train today and I am worried I might run into Jenrick at St Pancras and he'll ask to see my ticket.
    Stab him.
  • TazTaz Posts: 18,552

    Dura_Ace said:

    Morning all, what's Jenners up to today? Last seen rounding the East Goodwin Lightship in a canoe asking refugees if they have knives and livestreaming about that complete fucking prick who Minister of State for Immigration during the Boriswave.

    I am visiting London by train today and I am worried I might run into Jenrick at St Pancras and he'll ask to see my ticket.
    You’ll either be mugged or not appreciated.

    Catch the train to London, stopping at Rejection, Disappointment, Backstabbing Central and Shattered Dreams Parkway.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,291
    @rcs1000 ChatGPT tells me (because I'm lazy) that the human goo sphere would be 990m in diameter.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 35,188
    edited May 30
    Looking forward to Jenrick's next video, perhaps about the shoplifting of sausage rolls, lol.
  • vikvik Posts: 441

    @rcs1000 ChatGPT tells me (because I'm lazy) that the human goo sphere would be 990m in diameter.

    Some of the citations that underpin the science in the White House’s sweeping “MAHA Report” appear to have been generated using artificial intelligence, resulting in numerous garbled scientific references and invented studies, AI experts said Thursday.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2025/05/29/maha-rfk-jr-ai-garble/
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,878
    Dura_Ace said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Morning all, what's Jenners up to today? Last seen rounding the East Goodwin Lightship in a canoe asking refugees if they have knives and livestreaming about that complete fucking prick who Minister of State for Immigration during the Boriswave.

    I am visiting London by train today and I am worried I might run into Jenrick at St Pancras and he'll ask to see my ticket.
    Stab him.
    Better suggestion - ask him why he hates Mickey Mouse so much.

    Or - ask him if he has permission to film there...
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,291

    Dura_Ace said:

    Morning all, what's Jenners up to today? Last seen rounding the East Goodwin Lightship in a canoe asking refugees if they have knives and livestreaming about that complete fucking prick who Minister of State for Immigration during the Boriswave.

    I am visiting London by train today and I am worried I might run into Jenrick at St Pancras and he'll ask to see my ticket.
    He's only 5' 5" according to the internet.

    That's really short for a man. It's barely an inch higher than my wife.

    Regardless of how good he is, will the British electorate vote for a short man as PM?
  • TazTaz Posts: 18,552
    Andy_JS said:

    Looking forward to Jenrick's next video, perhaps about the shoplifting of sausage rolls, lol.

    The sacred sausage roll

    https://www.madametussauds.com/london/information/news/madame-tussauds-london-unveils-a-true-national-treasure-the-greggs-sausage-roll/
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,878
    vik said:

    @rcs1000 ChatGPT tells me (because I'm lazy) that the human goo sphere would be 990m in diameter.

    Some of the citations that underpin the science in the White House’s sweeping “MAHA Report” appear to have been generated using artificial intelligence, resulting in numerous garbled scientific references and invented studies, AI experts said Thursday.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2025/05/29/maha-rfk-jr-ai-garble/
    Well, that's the only form of intelligence you'll find in Trump's White House.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,878
    Incidentally, does anyone else find there was a certain irony in Jenrick confronting fare dodgers while he himself had not paid the necessary fee to carry out filming?

    Does he not realise there might just be a tiny issue there?
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 4,654
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Lettuce pray the message resonates.

    Yay, somebody spotted my subtle lettuce pun in the headline.
    Yes, but I bet it will get a frosty reception.
    nothing to do with me, I voted Romaine
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,878

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Lettuce pray the message resonates.

    Yay, somebody spotted my subtle lettuce pun in the headline.
    Yes, but I bet it will get a frosty reception.
    nothing to do with me, I voted Romaine
    These puns are truly the Webbe's Wonder.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,291
    Andy_JS said:

    Looking forward to Jenrick's next video, perhaps about the shoplifting of sausage rolls, lol.

    I've already given two eyewitness reports about that.

    I was far too shocked to say or do anything.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,709
    Foxy said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Morning all, what's Jenners up to today? Last seen rounding the East Goodwin Lightship in a canoe asking refugees if they have knives and livestreaming about that complete fucking prick who Minister of State for Immigration during the Boriswave.

    Jenrick is taking a leaf from Daveys campaigning book.

    First you have to get noticed, and he has.
    Might he go down the celebrity chomping on kangaroo bollocks line like the fag & pint meister? Didn’t seem to do Farage any harm.
    Strikes me that Jenrick could do with a bit of humanising, ie a shred of evidence that there’s anything there other than a quivering mass of empathy-free ambition.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,291
    ydoethur said:

    Incidentally, does anyone else find there was a certain irony in Jenrick confronting fare dodgers while he himself had not paid the necessary fee to carry out filming?

    Does he not realise there might just be a tiny issue there?

    Er, no. Bodycams are worn all the time by police and ticket inspectors, cyclists and runners have GoPros, the stations are littered with CCTV, and everyone Vlogs or films stuff on their phones all the time.

    No-one gives the slightest fuck mate. This is all about TfL (and Khan) being pissed off a Tory politician did an expose and embarrassed them.

    Nothing more, nothing less.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 4,654
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Lettuce pray the message resonates.

    Yay, somebody spotted my subtle lettuce pun in the headline.
    Yes, but I bet it will get a frosty reception.
    nothing to do with me, I voted Romaine
    These puns are truly the Webbe's Wonder.
    what a little gem...
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 31,467
    edited May 30
    I have been wondering if Liz Truss can ever rehabilitate her reputation - though a there's a small but vocal social media caucus in her favour.

    However, if anything can help her, it's certainly success vacuum Sir Goiter attacking her as the centerpiece of an attempted comeback.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,878
    edited May 30

    ydoethur said:

    Incidentally, does anyone else find there was a certain irony in Jenrick confronting fare dodgers while he himself had not paid the necessary fee to carry out filming?

    Does he not realise there might just be a tiny issue there?

    Er, no. Bodycams are worn all the time by police and ticket inspectors, cyclists and runners have GoPros, the stations are littered with CCTV, and everyone Vlogs or films stuff on their phones all the time.

    No-one gives the slightest fuck mate. This is all about TfL (and Khan) being pissed off a Tory politician did an expose and embarrassed them.

    Nothing more, nothing less.
    Er, no. I don't think you quite understand the problem. You are allowed to take images or videos in any place open to the public for personal use. (Staff have permission from the employer so your examples are not relevant.)

    You are not allowed to take them on land that is privately owned even if it is open to the public for non-personal particularly commercial use without prior written permission and probably payment of a fee.

    Does Jenrick's behaviour count as 'commercial use?' Very probably. Or to put it another way, as TikTok is riddled with adverts it will have been used commercially at some level. At the very least, as he's admitted breaking the rules and he is after all a lawyer albeit a rather bad one, he clearly thinks so.

    So he's done (checks notes) exactly what he was calling out other people for doing.

    And there's every chance he will get an FPN for it.

    Because he's thick as mince as well as a nasty piece of work, he can't spot the irony, but those of us who see this Mickey Mouse politician for what he is can enjoy it and point and laugh at him.

    (At the very least, such entitlement and lack of judgement demonstrates if further demonstration were needed of why he's unfit for political office.)
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 31,467
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Incidentally, does anyone else find there was a certain irony in Jenrick confronting fare dodgers while he himself had not paid the necessary fee to carry out filming?

    Does he not realise there might just be a tiny issue there?

    Er, no. Bodycams are worn all the time by police and ticket inspectors, cyclists and runners have GoPros, the stations are littered with CCTV, and everyone Vlogs or films stuff on their phones all the time.

    No-one gives the slightest fuck mate. This is all about TfL (and Khan) being pissed off a Tory politician did an expose and embarrassed them.

    Nothing more, nothing less.
    Er, no. I don't think you quite understand the problem. You are allowed to take images or videos in any public place for personal use. (Staff have permission from the employer so your examples are not relevant.)

    You are not allowed to take them for non-personal particularly commercial use without prior written permission and probably payment of a fee.

    Does Jenrick's behaviour count as 'commercial use?' Very probably. Or to put it another way, as TikTok is riddled with adverts it will have been used commercially at some level. At the very least, as he's admitted breaking the rules and he is after all a lawyer albeit a rather bad one, he clearly thinks so.

    So he's done (checks notes) exactly what he was calling out other people for doing.

    And there's every chance he will get an FPN for it.

    Because he's thick as mince as well as a nasty piece of work, he can't spot the irony, but those of us who see this Mickey Mouse politician for what he is can enjoy it and point and laugh at him.

    (At the very least, such entitlement and lack of judgement demonstrates if further demonstration were needed of why he's unfit for political office.)
    Please keep pushing this line, it's gold.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 35,188
    ydoethur said:

    Incidentally, does anyone else find there was a certain irony in Jenrick confronting fare dodgers while he himself had not paid the necessary fee to carry out filming?

    Does he not realise there might just be a tiny issue there?

    Not really. Fare dodging is what really gets up my nose, not filming without permission.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,709
    edited May 30

    ydoethur said:

    Incidentally, does anyone else find there was a certain irony in Jenrick confronting fare dodgers while he himself had not paid the necessary fee to carry out filming?

    Does he not realise there might just be a tiny issue there?

    No, because Bobby's superpower is a complete lack of shame.
    Apoears to be the only political superpower worth having nowadays, though you have to lean into it with utter conviction. Starmer for example seems pretty shameless about policy u turns, free specs etc, but his defences of them just sound like equivocating turkey gobbling.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,161
    Dura_Ace said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Morning all, what's Jenners up to today? Last seen rounding the East Goodwin Lightship in a canoe asking refugees if they have knives and livestreaming about that complete fucking prick who Minister of State for Immigration during the Boriswave.

    I am visiting London by train today and I am worried I might run into Jenrick at St Pancras and he'll ask to see my ticket.
    Stab him.
    I'll do worse, I'll mention Dirty Desmond.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 18,788
    A couple of questions about our have-a-go hero;

    Did he make these rapscallions pay their train fares?

    Does he have a workable plan to reduce fare dodging?

    Otherwise, he's one of those grumpy men waving their fists at Dennis the Menace as he runs away.
  • I have been wondering if Liz Truss can ever rehabilitate her reputation - though a there's a small but vocal social media caucus in her favour.

    However, if anything can help her, it's certainly success vacuum Sir Goiter attacking her as the centerpiece of an attempted comeback.

    I think she would make an excellent Director General of the BBC
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 35,188
    "Attorney General compares Tories and Reform to Nazis
    Anger as Lord Hermer warns that rejection of ECHR resembles 1930s Germany"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/05/29/quit-echr-like-rise-of-nazism-starmer-lord-hermer/
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 10,770
    edited May 30
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Incidentally, does anyone else find there was a certain irony in Jenrick confronting fare dodgers while he himself had not paid the necessary fee to carry out filming?

    Does he not realise there might just be a tiny issue there?

    Er, no. Bodycams are worn all the time by police and ticket inspectors, cyclists and runners have GoPros, the stations are littered with CCTV, and everyone Vlogs or films stuff on their phones all the time.

    No-one gives the slightest fuck mate. This is all about TfL (and Khan) being pissed off a Tory politician did an expose and embarrassed them.

    Nothing more, nothing less.
    Er, no. I don't think you quite understand the problem. You are allowed to take images or videos in any place open to the public for personal use. (Staff have permission from the employer so your examples are not relevant.)

    You are not allowed to take them on land that is privately owned even if it is open to the public for non-personal particularly commercial use without prior written permission and probably payment of a fee.

    Does Jenrick's behaviour count as 'commercial use?' Very probably. Or to put it another way, as TikTok is riddled with adverts it will have been used commercially at some level. At the very least, as he's admitted breaking the rules and he is after all a lawyer albeit a rather bad one, he clearly thinks so.

    So he's done (checks notes) exactly what he was calling out other people for doing.

    And there's every chance he will get an FPN for it.

    Because he's thick as mince as well as a nasty piece of work, he can't spot the irony, but those of us who see this Mickey Mouse politician for what he is can enjoy it and point and laugh at him.

    (At the very least, such entitlement and lack of judgement demonstrates if further demonstration were needed of why he's unfit for political office.)
    TfL would be mad to prosecute him. If Jenrick is smart he won't have monetised the video. Or perhaps he will have in order to stimulate a court battle and lots of good PR...

    TfL are also generous when it comes to filming the good stuff, like Crossrail opening and so on. It would be a bit rubbish for them to disallow the opposite.

    (The legality of filming in public is widely misunderstood. I've had drivers completely lose their heads when I've photographed their reg plate, for example.)
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 31,467

    A couple of questions about our have-a-go hero;

    Did he make these rapscallions pay their train fares?

    Does he have a workable plan to reduce fare dodging?

    Otherwise, he's one of those grumpy men waving their fists at Dennis the Menace as he runs away.

    A public citizen doesn't have the power to 'make' other people pay their fares - he can however bring their fare dodging to the notice of TFL staff on the scene, whose actual job is to make them pay their fare, which is what he did.

    His workable plan is to inspire a public debate that forces TFL to take steps to stamp out the practice, rather than watching whilst it happens and putting fares up for those who pay, or getting the begging bowl out for more funding.

    It is entirely legitimate, and this daft carping is purely because Jenrick is a right wing Tory complaining about a Labour issue. Change the rosette, and you'd be full of praise.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 14,468
    Andy_JS said:

    "Attorney General compares Tories and Reform to Nazis
    Anger as Lord Hermer warns that rejection of ECHR resembles 1930s Germany"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/05/29/quit-echr-like-rise-of-nazism-starmer-lord-hermer/

    Another misleading Telegraph headline.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,878

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Incidentally, does anyone else find there was a certain irony in Jenrick confronting fare dodgers while he himself had not paid the necessary fee to carry out filming?

    Does he not realise there might just be a tiny issue there?

    Er, no. Bodycams are worn all the time by police and ticket inspectors, cyclists and runners have GoPros, the stations are littered with CCTV, and everyone Vlogs or films stuff on their phones all the time.

    No-one gives the slightest fuck mate. This is all about TfL (and Khan) being pissed off a Tory politician did an expose and embarrassed them.

    Nothing more, nothing less.
    Er, no. I don't think you quite understand the problem. You are allowed to take images or videos in any public place for personal use. (Staff have permission from the employer so your examples are not relevant.)

    You are not allowed to take them for non-personal particularly commercial use without prior written permission and probably payment of a fee.

    Does Jenrick's behaviour count as 'commercial use?' Very probably. Or to put it another way, as TikTok is riddled with adverts it will have been used commercially at some level. At the very least, as he's admitted breaking the rules and he is after all a lawyer albeit a rather bad one, he clearly thinks so.

    So he's done (checks notes) exactly what he was calling out other people for doing.

    And there's every chance he will get an FPN for it.

    Because he's thick as mince as well as a nasty piece of work, he can't spot the irony, but those of us who see this Mickey Mouse politician for what he is can enjoy it and point and laugh at him.

    (At the very least, such entitlement and lack of judgement demonstrates if further demonstration were needed of why he's unfit for political office.)
    Please keep pushing this line, it's gold.
    Ok, here's another point for you then. If he'd got permission his video would have been solid evidence of multiple offences and could have been used for prosecutions.

    As he didn't have permission no case of any description can be brought.

    Is that an optimal outcome?

    Is that the sort of thing a man who prides himself (stupidly, but hey) on being a successful lawyer should be achieving?
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,080
    Robert Jenrick is our modern philosopher֊king, and I'll hear nothing against him.

    His understanding of spiritual and political matters is unsurpassed. He is a scientist. He has natural style and debonair charm. And finally,, he is everyone's friend. He is our new Dear Leader, and I myself would wash his feet to show my gratitude, and deep, deep respect.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 10,770
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Incidentally, does anyone else find there was a certain irony in Jenrick confronting fare dodgers while he himself had not paid the necessary fee to carry out filming?

    Does he not realise there might just be a tiny issue there?

    Er, no. Bodycams are worn all the time by police and ticket inspectors, cyclists and runners have GoPros, the stations are littered with CCTV, and everyone Vlogs or films stuff on their phones all the time.

    No-one gives the slightest fuck mate. This is all about TfL (and Khan) being pissed off a Tory politician did an expose and embarrassed them.

    Nothing more, nothing less.
    Er, no. I don't think you quite understand the problem. You are allowed to take images or videos in any public place for personal use. (Staff have permission from the employer so your examples are not relevant.)

    You are not allowed to take them for non-personal particularly commercial use without prior written permission and probably payment of a fee.

    Does Jenrick's behaviour count as 'commercial use?' Very probably. Or to put it another way, as TikTok is riddled with adverts it will have been used commercially at some level. At the very least, as he's admitted breaking the rules and he is after all a lawyer albeit a rather bad one, he clearly thinks so.

    So he's done (checks notes) exactly what he was calling out other people for doing.

    And there's every chance he will get an FPN for it.

    Because he's thick as mince as well as a nasty piece of work, he can't spot the irony, but those of us who see this Mickey Mouse politician for what he is can enjoy it and point and laugh at him.

    (At the very least, such entitlement and lack of judgement demonstrates if further demonstration were needed of why he's unfit for political office.)
    Please keep pushing this line, it's gold.
    Ok, here's another point for you then. If he'd got permission his video would have been solid evidence of multiple offences and could have been used for prosecutions.

    As he didn't have permission no case of any description can be brought.

    Is that an optimal outcome?

    Is that the sort of thing a man who prides himself (stupidly, but hey) on being a successful lawyer should be achieving?
    I don't think that's true at all. Plenty of court cases where the evidence or witness is pretty dodgy in itself.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 10,770

    A couple of questions about our have-a-go hero;

    Did he make these rapscallions pay their train fares?

    Does he have a workable plan to reduce fare dodging?

    Otherwise, he's one of those grumpy men waving their fists at Dennis the Menace as he runs away.

    That group of grumpy men is significantly larger than the Conservative's current vote share.

    The really cynical thing to do would be drug drivers after the widely held assumption about the Liverpool driver. He'd have to be careful not to mention that incident though.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,789

    Foxy said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Morning all, what's Jenners up to today? Last seen rounding the East Goodwin Lightship in a canoe asking refugees if they have knives and livestreaming about that complete fucking prick who Minister of State for Immigration during the Boriswave.

    Jenrick is taking a leaf from Daveys campaigning book.

    First you have to get noticed, and he has.
    Might he go down the celebrity chomping on kangaroo bollocks line like the fag & pint meister? Didn’t seem to do Farage any harm.
    Strikes me that Jenrick could do with a bit of humanising, ie a shred of evidence that there’s anything there other than a quivering mass of empathy-free ambition.
    The problem of being a dull middle aged white man in politics is mostly one of getting noticed amongst the others. Ours is an attention disordered world and there's only so much you can do with novelty socks etc.

    Johnson was perhaps the past master with his studied "Boris" comic character, which caught the Zeitgeist at the time, before ageing like fine milk.

    Davey ran a very successful campaign with his various stunts, turning a paunchy middle aged balding man into "fun dad".

    I am not sure what Jenrick is quite aiming at. There is a risk of becoming Lozza Fox, but next to the torpor of Badenoch it has seized the news agenda.

    No way would I vote for him, but the Tories should give him the gig. At least he wants the poisoned chalice. The others are keeping their heads down for either a quiet elevation to the Lords, or some sort of bid for leadership after the 2029 Election flop.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,709
    Eabhal said:

    A couple of questions about our have-a-go hero;

    Did he make these rapscallions pay their train fares?

    Does he have a workable plan to reduce fare dodging?

    Otherwise, he's one of those grumpy men waving their fists at Dennis the Menace as he runs away.

    That group of grumpy men is significantly larger than the Conservative's current vote share.

    The really cynical thing to do would be drug drivers after the widely held assumption about the Liverpool driver. He'd have to be careful not to mention that incident though.
    The Liverpool driver is apparently an ex Royal Marine commando so for the moment that has cauterised the incident as a wound for the right to pick at.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,930
    Eabhal said:

    A couple of questions about our have-a-go hero;

    Did he make these rapscallions pay their train fares?

    Does he have a workable plan to reduce fare dodging?

    Otherwise, he's one of those grumpy men waving their fists at Dennis the Menace as he runs away.

    That group of grumpy men is significantly larger than the Conservative's current vote share.
    t
    The really cynical thing to do would be drug drivers after the widely held assumption about the Liverpool driver. He'd have to be careful not to mention that incident though.
    He'd also have to ensure that none of his supporters are likely to do coke then get in a car. Something more than a zero chance that comes back to bite him on the arse.

    Whereas fare dodging - what chance of a Tory MP riding on public transport?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 66,000
    Brilliant headline title @TSE !
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 31,467
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Incidentally, does anyone else find there was a certain irony in Jenrick confronting fare dodgers while he himself had not paid the necessary fee to carry out filming?

    Does he not realise there might just be a tiny issue there?

    Er, no. Bodycams are worn all the time by police and ticket inspectors, cyclists and runners have GoPros, the stations are littered with CCTV, and everyone Vlogs or films stuff on their phones all the time.

    No-one gives the slightest fuck mate. This is all about TfL (and Khan) being pissed off a Tory politician did an expose and embarrassed them.

    Nothing more, nothing less.
    Er, no. I don't think you quite understand the problem. You are allowed to take images or videos in any public place for personal use. (Staff have permission from the employer so your examples are not relevant.)

    You are not allowed to take them for non-personal particularly commercial use without prior written permission and probably payment of a fee.

    Does Jenrick's behaviour count as 'commercial use?' Very probably. Or to put it another way, as TikTok is riddled with adverts it will have been used commercially at some level. At the very least, as he's admitted breaking the rules and he is after all a lawyer albeit a rather bad one, he clearly thinks so.

    So he's done (checks notes) exactly what he was calling out other people for doing.

    And there's every chance he will get an FPN for it.

    Because he's thick as mince as well as a nasty piece of work, he can't spot the irony, but those of us who see this Mickey Mouse politician for what he is can enjoy it and point and laugh at him.

    (At the very least, such entitlement and lack of judgement demonstrates if further demonstration were needed of why he's unfit for political office.)
    Please keep pushing this line, it's gold.
    Ok, here's another point for you then. If he'd got permission his video would have been solid evidence of multiple offences and could have been used for prosecutions.

    As he didn't have permission no case of any description can be brought.

    Is that an optimal outcome?

    Is that the sort of thing a man who prides himself (stupidly, but hey) on being a successful lawyer should be achieving?
    TFL would not have given filming permission. So not only would the perps not have been convicted (I really don't know what country you're living in if you think these people would ever have seen the inside of a courtroom), they would also not have been exposed, and we wouldn't be discussing it.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,723
    The Daily Moan is reporting to its horror that the suspect in the Liverpool car attack is 'middle class'.

    We really are going to hell in a handcart. Whatever next, posh fare dodgers?
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 9,050
    As a long standing owner of a bus pass I can't get worked up about fare dodgers
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,992

    A couple of questions about our have-a-go hero;

    Did he make these rapscallions pay their train fares?

    Does he have a workable plan to reduce fare dodging?

    Otherwise, he's one of those grumpy men waving their fists at Dennis the Menace as he runs away.

    A public citizen doesn't have the power to 'make' other people pay their fares - he can however bring their fare dodging to the notice of TFL staff on the scene, whose actual job is to make them pay their fare, which is what he did.

    His workable plan is to inspire a public debate that forces TFL to take steps to stamp out the practice, rather than watching whilst it happens and putting fares up for those who pay, or getting the begging bowl out for more funding.

    It is entirely legitimate, and this daft carping is purely because Jenrick is a right wing Tory complaining about a Labour issue. Change the rosette, and you'd be full of praise.
    "Fare-dodging is a Labour issue".

    Coming to a Tory leaflet near you as soon as they get desperate enough.

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,878

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Incidentally, does anyone else find there was a certain irony in Jenrick confronting fare dodgers while he himself had not paid the necessary fee to carry out filming?

    Does he not realise there might just be a tiny issue there?

    Er, no. Bodycams are worn all the time by police and ticket inspectors, cyclists and runners have GoPros, the stations are littered with CCTV, and everyone Vlogs or films stuff on their phones all the time.

    No-one gives the slightest fuck mate. This is all about TfL (and Khan) being pissed off a Tory politician did an expose and embarrassed them.

    Nothing more, nothing less.
    Er, no. I don't think you quite understand the problem. You are allowed to take images or videos in any public place for personal use. (Staff have permission from the employer so your examples are not relevant.)

    You are not allowed to take them for non-personal particularly commercial use without prior written permission and probably payment of a fee.

    Does Jenrick's behaviour count as 'commercial use?' Very probably. Or to put it another way, as TikTok is riddled with adverts it will have been used commercially at some level. At the very least, as he's admitted breaking the rules and he is after all a lawyer albeit a rather bad one, he clearly thinks so.

    So he's done (checks notes) exactly what he was calling out other people for doing.

    And there's every chance he will get an FPN for it.

    Because he's thick as mince as well as a nasty piece of work, he can't spot the irony, but those of us who see this Mickey Mouse politician for what he is can enjoy it and point and laugh at him.

    (At the very least, such entitlement and lack of judgement demonstrates if further demonstration were needed of why he's unfit for political office.)
    Please keep pushing this line, it's gold.
    Ok, here's another point for you then. If he'd got permission his video would have been solid evidence of multiple offences and could have been used for prosecutions.

    As he didn't have permission no case of any description can be brought.

    Is that an optimal outcome?

    Is that the sort of thing a man who prides himself (stupidly, but hey) on being a successful lawyer should be achieving?
    TFL would not have given filming permission. So not only would the perps not have been convicted (I really don't know what country you're living in if you think these people would ever have seen the inside of a courtroom), they would also not have been exposed, and we wouldn't be discussing it.
    But we don't know that, because he didn't ask.

    If he'd asked, and he'd been refused, that would have been altogether different and I'd be on his side even allowing for the fact he's such a massive twat. But he didn't even bother because he thought he knew better.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,789

    A couple of questions about our have-a-go hero;

    Did he make these rapscallions pay their train fares?

    Does he have a workable plan to reduce fare dodging?

    Otherwise, he's one of those grumpy men waving their fists at Dennis the Menace as he runs away.

    But that is what we have as politics now. Discontent and anger, and a thoroughly negative world view that everything is shit. There are no serious or workable solutions being suggested, least of all ones with funding attached. There is no vision to it. Johnson was a spiv, but one who understood the power of optimism.

  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 31,467
    edited May 30

    Eabhal said:

    A couple of questions about our have-a-go hero;

    Did he make these rapscallions pay their train fares?

    Does he have a workable plan to reduce fare dodging?

    Otherwise, he's one of those grumpy men waving their fists at Dennis the Menace as he runs away.

    That group of grumpy men is significantly larger than the Conservative's current vote share.
    t
    The really cynical thing to do would be drug drivers after the widely held assumption about the Liverpool driver. He'd have to be careful not to mention that incident though.
    He'd also have to ensure that none of his supporters are likely to do coke then get in a car. Something more than a zero chance that comes back to bite him on the arse.

    Whereas fare dodging - what chance of a Tory MP riding on public transport?
    Hilarious how against this you are. It's like TSE leaping to the defence of Starmer every time he falls on his face (well, most times), a Labour politician being successful is oddly preferable to you tha. a right wing Tory. Some broad Church.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 10,770
    edited May 30

    Eabhal said:

    A couple of questions about our have-a-go hero;

    Did he make these rapscallions pay their train fares?

    Does he have a workable plan to reduce fare dodging?

    Otherwise, he's one of those grumpy men waving their fists at Dennis the Menace as he runs away.

    That group of grumpy men is significantly larger than the Conservative's current vote share.
    t
    The really cynical thing to do would be drug drivers after the widely held assumption about the Liverpool driver. He'd have to be careful not to mention that incident though.
    He'd also have to ensure that none of his supporters are likely to do coke then get in a car. Something more than a zero chance that comes back to bite him on the arse.

    Whereas fare dodging - what chance of a Tory MP riding on public transport?
    In London? Very high. And PBers last night were pointing out that it's exactly that kind of demographic who are likely to be serial high-value fare dodgers.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 14,468
    I see Farage wants tougher abortion laws. Does he have his own ideas, or does he just do whatever the US Right says now?
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 10,770

    The Daily Moan is reporting to its horror that the suspect in the Liverpool car attack is 'middle class'.

    We really are going to hell in a handcart. Whatever next, posh fare dodgers?

    If we're going to talk about "two-tier", just look at the generosity in the coverage for this guy compared with anyone else. £300k house, "company director", ex-Marine etc etc.

    Will be a fascinating court case, if it comes to that.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 31,467
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Incidentally, does anyone else find there was a certain irony in Jenrick confronting fare dodgers while he himself had not paid the necessary fee to carry out filming?

    Does he not realise there might just be a tiny issue there?

    Er, no. Bodycams are worn all the time by police and ticket inspectors, cyclists and runners have GoPros, the stations are littered with CCTV, and everyone Vlogs or films stuff on their phones all the time.

    No-one gives the slightest fuck mate. This is all about TfL (and Khan) being pissed off a Tory politician did an expose and embarrassed them.

    Nothing more, nothing less.
    Er, no. I don't think you quite understand the problem. You are allowed to take images or videos in any public place for personal use. (Staff have permission from the employer so your examples are not relevant.)

    You are not allowed to take them for non-personal particularly commercial use without prior written permission and probably payment of a fee.

    Does Jenrick's behaviour count as 'commercial use?' Very probably. Or to put it another way, as TikTok is riddled with adverts it will have been used commercially at some level. At the very least, as he's admitted breaking the rules and he is after all a lawyer albeit a rather bad one, he clearly thinks so.

    So he's done (checks notes) exactly what he was calling out other people for doing.

    And there's every chance he will get an FPN for it.

    Because he's thick as mince as well as a nasty piece of work, he can't spot the irony, but those of us who see this Mickey Mouse politician for what he is can enjoy it and point and laugh at him.

    (At the very least, such entitlement and lack of judgement demonstrates if further demonstration were needed of why he's unfit for political office.)
    Please keep pushing this line, it's gold.
    Ok, here's another point for you then. If he'd got permission his video would have been solid evidence of multiple offences and could have been used for prosecutions.

    As he didn't have permission no case of any description can be brought.

    Is that an optimal outcome?

    Is that the sort of thing a man who prides himself (stupidly, but hey) on being a successful lawyer should be achieving?
    TFL would not have given filming permission. So not only would the perps not have been convicted (I really don't know what country you're living in if you think these people would ever have seen the inside of a courtroom), they would also not have been exposed, and we wouldn't be discussing it.
    But we don't know that, because he didn't ask.

    If he'd asked, and he'd been refused, that would have been altogether different and I'd be on his side even allowing for the fact he's such a massive twat. But he didn't even bother because he thought he knew better.
    If he'd asked, been refused, and complained about being refused you'd have been on his side? How would any misdeeds by public authorities come to be filmed if this policy were put into practice?

    Your objections are 100% partisan.
  • eekeek Posts: 30,084
    edited May 30
    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    A couple of questions about our have-a-go hero;

    Did he make these rapscallions pay their train fares?

    Does he have a workable plan to reduce fare dodging?

    Otherwise, he's one of those grumpy men waving their fists at Dennis the Menace as he runs away.

    That group of grumpy men is significantly larger than the Conservative's current vote share.
    t
    The really cynical thing to do would be drug drivers after the widely held assumption about the Liverpool driver. He'd have to be careful not to mention that incident though.
    He'd also have to ensure that none of his supporters are likely to do coke then get in a car. Something more than a zero chance that comes back to bite him on the arse.

    Whereas fare dodging - what chance of a Tory MP riding on public transport?
    In London? Very high. And PBers last night were pointing out that it's exactly that kind of demographic who are likely to be serial high-value fare dodgers.
    Yep - the only time I don't use public transport is locally because it's not quick enough. London, Paris, Berlin, Vienna it's my default means of travelling as taxis are slower.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,080

    I see Farage wants tougher abortion laws. Does he have his own ideas, or does he just do whatever the US Right says now?

    This is the big worry with Farage. Becoming purely an appendage of a Trumpian U.S.,with all that might bring along with it for democracy and the rule of law
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 10,770
    eek said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    A couple of questions about our have-a-go hero;

    Did he make these rapscallions pay their train fares?

    Does he have a workable plan to reduce fare dodging?

    Otherwise, he's one of those grumpy men waving their fists at Dennis the Menace as he runs away.

    That group of grumpy men is significantly larger than the Conservative's current vote share.
    t
    The really cynical thing to do would be drug drivers after the widely held assumption about the Liverpool driver. He'd have to be careful not to mention that incident though.
    He'd also have to ensure that none of his supporters are likely to do coke then get in a car. Something more than a zero chance that comes back to bite him on the arse.

    Whereas fare dodging - what chance of a Tory MP riding on public transport?
    In London? Very high. And PBers last night were pointing out that it's exactly that kind of demographic who are likely to be serial high-value fare dodgers.
    Yep - the only time I don't use public transport is locally because it's not quick enough. London, Paris, Berlin, Vienna it's my default means of travelling as taxis are slower.
    It's the mark of a good public transport system - the full breadth of society using it. It's also the way I measure cycle infrastructure - are there kids, women and pensioners using it?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,789
    edited May 30

    Eabhal said:

    A couple of questions about our have-a-go hero;

    Did he make these rapscallions pay their train fares?

    Does he have a workable plan to reduce fare dodging?

    Otherwise, he's one of those grumpy men waving their fists at Dennis the Menace as he runs away.

    That group of grumpy men is significantly larger than the Conservative's current vote share.

    The really cynical thing to do would be drug drivers after the widely held assumption about the Liverpool driver. He'd have to be careful not to mention that incident though.
    The Liverpool driver is apparently an ex Royal Marine commando so for the moment that has cauterised the incident as a wound for the right to pick at.
    I can see where this is going. The PTSD defence.

    Not completely unreasonable either. A lot of veterans have it, causing explosive acts of temper.

    Though one denied to asylum seekers it seems. Their traumas are washed clean on arrival.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 10,770
    Foxy said:

    Eabhal said:

    A couple of questions about our have-a-go hero;

    Did he make these rapscallions pay their train fares?

    Does he have a workable plan to reduce fare dodging?

    Otherwise, he's one of those grumpy men waving their fists at Dennis the Menace as he runs away.

    That group of grumpy men is significantly larger than the Conservative's current vote share.

    The really cynical thing to do would be drug drivers after the widely held assumption about the Liverpool driver. He'd have to be careful not to mention that incident though.
    The Liverpool driver is apparently an ex Royal Marine commando so for the moment that has cauterised the incident as a wound for the right to pick at.
    I can see where this is going. The PTSD defence.

    Not completely unreasonable either. A lot of veterans have it, causing explosive acts of temper.

    Though one denied to asylum seekers it seems. Their traumas are washed clean on arrival.
    I think "temporary blackout", perhaps linked to a mental health issue. That's the typical defence for motorists in this kind of situation.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,789

    I see Farage wants tougher abortion laws. Does he have his own ideas, or does he just do whatever the US Right says now?

    This is the big worry with Farage. Becoming purely an appendage of a Trumpian U.S.,with all that might bring along with it for democracy and the rule of law
    Surely this is the ticking time bomb?


  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,930

    Eabhal said:

    A couple of questions about our have-a-go hero;

    Did he make these rapscallions pay their train fares?

    Does he have a workable plan to reduce fare dodging?

    Otherwise, he's one of those grumpy men waving their fists at Dennis the Menace as he runs away.

    That group of grumpy men is significantly larger than the Conservative's current vote share.
    t
    The really cynical thing to do would be drug drivers after the widely held assumption about the Liverpool driver. He'd have to be careful not to mention that incident though.
    He'd also have to ensure that none of his supporters are likely to do coke then get in a car. Something more than a zero chance that comes back to bite him on the arse.

    Whereas fare dodging - what chance of a Tory MP riding on public transport?
    Hilarious how against this you are. It's like TSE leaping to the defence of Starmer every time he falls on his face (well, most times), a Labour politician being successful is oddly preferable to you tha. a right wing Tory. Some broad Church.
    If you find it hilarious that I detest the hilariously pompous Jenrick - then guilty as charged.

    He is as much of a vote improvement cul de sac for the Tories as Liz Truss.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,709
    Foxy said:

    Eabhal said:

    A couple of questions about our have-a-go hero;

    Did he make these rapscallions pay their train fares?

    Does he have a workable plan to reduce fare dodging?

    Otherwise, he's one of those grumpy men waving their fists at Dennis the Menace as he runs away.

    That group of grumpy men is significantly larger than the Conservative's current vote share.

    The really cynical thing to do would be drug drivers after the widely held assumption about the Liverpool driver. He'd have to be careful not to mention that incident though.
    The Liverpool driver is apparently an ex Royal Marine commando so for the moment that has cauterised the incident as a wound for the right to pick at.
    I can see where this is going. The PTSD defence.

    Not completely unreasonable either. A lot of veterans have it, causing explosive acts of temper.

    Though one denied to asylum seekers it seems. Their traumas are washed clean on arrival.
    ‘I stand with bootneck Y’ t-shirts being printed as I type.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,262

    A couple of questions about our have-a-go hero;

    Did he make these rapscallions pay their train fares?

    Does he have a workable plan to reduce fare dodging?

    Otherwise, he's one of those grumpy men waving their fists at Dennis the Menace as he runs away.

    A public citizen doesn't have the power to 'make' other people pay their fares - he can however bring their fare dodging to the notice of TFL staff on the scene, whose actual job is to make them pay their fare, which is what he did.

    His workable plan is to inspire a public debate that forces TFL to take steps to stamp out the practice, rather than watching whilst it happens and putting fares up for those who pay, or getting the begging bowl out for more funding.

    It is entirely legitimate, and this daft carping is purely because Jenrick is a right wing Tory complaining about a Labour issue. Change the rosette, and you'd be full of praise.
    Hang on. People don't see "A Labour issue". This isn't about faredodging, its about the rampant crime wave sweeping the country thanks to a lack of police and a lack of trials and a jack of jails.

    Which everyone blames the Tories for, because its the Tories fault. The idea that the faredodging element of the rampant crime wave is a Labour issue because of who the mayor is demonstrates almost HYUFD levels of hopium.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 66,000
    Foxy said:

    Eabhal said:

    A couple of questions about our have-a-go hero;

    Did he make these rapscallions pay their train fares?

    Does he have a workable plan to reduce fare dodging?

    Otherwise, he's one of those grumpy men waving their fists at Dennis the Menace as he runs away.

    That group of grumpy men is significantly larger than the Conservative's current vote share.

    The really cynical thing to do would be drug drivers after the widely held assumption about the Liverpool driver. He'd have to be careful not to mention that incident though.
    The Liverpool driver is apparently an ex Royal Marine commando so for the moment that has cauterised the incident as a wound for the right to pick at.
    I can see where this is going. The PTSD defence.

    Not completely unreasonable either. A lot of veterans have it, causing explosive acts of temper.

    Though one denied to asylum seekers it seems. Their traumas are washed clean on arrival.
    Sub judice guys, sub judice.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 35,188

    Eabhal said:

    A couple of questions about our have-a-go hero;

    Did he make these rapscallions pay their train fares?

    Does he have a workable plan to reduce fare dodging?

    Otherwise, he's one of those grumpy men waving their fists at Dennis the Menace as he runs away.

    That group of grumpy men is significantly larger than the Conservative's current vote share.

    The really cynical thing to do would be drug drivers after the widely held assumption about the Liverpool driver. He'd have to be careful not to mention that incident though.
    The Liverpool driver is apparently an ex Royal Marine commando so for the moment that has cauterised the incident as a wound for the right to pick at.
    It's notable that he hasn't been charged with attempted murder.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,262
    Foxy said:

    Eabhal said:

    A couple of questions about our have-a-go hero;

    Did he make these rapscallions pay their train fares?

    Does he have a workable plan to reduce fare dodging?

    Otherwise, he's one of those grumpy men waving their fists at Dennis the Menace as he runs away.

    That group of grumpy men is significantly larger than the Conservative's current vote share.

    The really cynical thing to do would be drug drivers after the widely held assumption about the Liverpool driver. He'd have to be careful not to mention that incident though.
    The Liverpool driver is apparently an ex Royal Marine commando so for the moment that has cauterised the incident as a wound for the right to pick at.
    I can see where this is going. The PTSD defence.

    Not completely unreasonable either. A lot of veterans have it, causing explosive acts of temper.

    Though one denied to asylum seekers it seems. Their traumas are washed clean on arrival.
    'Surely the evidence is clear and unambiguous - this guy has been fitted up. The perp was a MUSLIM because muslims are the bad people, not people who look like me, we are the victims. So the evil scum have not only lied to hide that it was a MUSLIM but they've fitted up one of our brave boys as well.

    There's only one way to have justice, and that's to ransack Greggs or something'

    Parody, but only a slight exaggeration of what is being posted on Twitter
  • TazTaz Posts: 18,552

    A couple of questions about our have-a-go hero;

    Did he make these rapscallions pay their train fares?

    Does he have a workable plan to reduce fare dodging?

    Otherwise, he's one of those grumpy men waving their fists at Dennis the Menace as he runs away.

    A public citizen doesn't have the power to 'make' other people pay their fares - he can however bring their fare dodging to the notice of TFL staff on the scene, whose actual job is to make them pay their fare, which is what he did.

    His workable plan is to inspire a public debate that forces TFL to take steps to stamp out the practice, rather than watching whilst it happens and putting fares up for those who pay, or getting the begging bowl out for more funding.

    It is entirely legitimate, and this daft carping is purely because Jenrick is a right wing Tory complaining about a Labour issue. Change the rosette, and you'd be full of praise.
    Exactly. People annoyed at Jenrick rather than the fare dodgers, one of whom implied he had an knife, insane.

    And ‘oh it’s not as bad as it was a few years ago’ really doesn’t cut it either.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 10,770
    Andy_JS said:

    Eabhal said:

    A couple of questions about our have-a-go hero;

    Did he make these rapscallions pay their train fares?

    Does he have a workable plan to reduce fare dodging?

    Otherwise, he's one of those grumpy men waving their fists at Dennis the Menace as he runs away.

    That group of grumpy men is significantly larger than the Conservative's current vote share.

    The really cynical thing to do would be drug drivers after the widely held assumption about the Liverpool driver. He'd have to be careful not to mention that incident though.
    The Liverpool driver is apparently an ex Royal Marine commando so for the moment that has cauterised the incident as a wound for the right to pick at.
    It's notable that he hasn't been charged with attempted murder.
    Not really. You'd have to prove intent to kill. It might have been charged as such in Scotland, where we don't have that condition.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,723
    Eabhal said:

    The Daily Moan is reporting to its horror that the suspect in the Liverpool car attack is 'middle class'.

    We really are going to hell in a handcart. Whatever next, posh fare dodgers?

    If we're going to talk about "two-tier", just look at the generosity in the coverage for this guy compared with anyone else. £300k house, "company director", ex-Marine etc etc.

    Will be a fascinating court case, if it comes to that.
    It's already fascinating, and incredibly sad.

    No winners.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 77,796

    ydoethur said:

    Lettuce pray the message resonates.

    Yay, somebody spotted my subtle lettuce pun in the headline.
    And your deliberate typo.
    ...I will interesting to see..

    Though I'm sure you will.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 77,796
    Foxy said:

    I see Farage wants tougher abortion laws. Does he have his own ideas, or does he just do whatever the US Right says now?

    This is the big worry with Farage. Becoming purely an appendage of a Trumpian U.S.,with all that might bring along with it for democracy and the rule of law
    Surely this is the ticking time bomb?


    You're saying Farage has been groomed ?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,967

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Lettuce pray the message resonates.

    Yay, somebody spotted my subtle lettuce pun in the headline.
    Yes, but I bet it will get a frosty reception.
    nothing to do with me, I voted Romaine
    These puns are truly the Webbe's Wonder.
    what a little gem...

    That Romaines to be seen..
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 10,770

    Eabhal said:

    The Daily Moan is reporting to its horror that the suspect in the Liverpool car attack is 'middle class'.

    We really are going to hell in a handcart. Whatever next, posh fare dodgers?

    If we're going to talk about "two-tier", just look at the generosity in the coverage for this guy compared with anyone else. £300k house, "company director", ex-Marine etc etc.

    Will be a fascinating court case, if it comes to that.
    It's already fascinating, and incredibly sad.

    No winners.
    I don't want to be too confrontational, but there's no chance we'd be saying things like "no winners" if the guy was Muslim or in his early 20s or something. It's natural for people to emphasise with someone more like them, and this is a great example of it.

    It's why motoring offences get off lightly - we can all imagine ourselves not spotting the motorcyclist and killing them by accident - even though we would not tolerate that level of negligence in any other situation.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,459

    Andy_JS said:

    "Attorney General compares Tories and Reform to Nazis
    Anger as Lord Hermer warns that rejection of ECHR resembles 1930s Germany"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/05/29/quit-echr-like-rise-of-nazism-starmer-lord-hermer/

    Another misleading Telegraph headline.
    Good morning

    This is not the Telegraph reporting the same story

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/attorney-general-echr-nazi-germany-nigel-farage-tories-reform-kemi-badenoch-b1230383.html
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,967

    A couple of questions about our have-a-go hero;

    Did he make these rapscallions pay their train fares?

    Does he have a workable plan to reduce fare dodging?

    Otherwise, he's one of those grumpy men waving their fists at Dennis the Menace as he runs away.

    A public citizen doesn't have the power to 'make' other people pay their fares - he can however bring their fare dodging to the notice of TFL staff on the scene, whose actual job is to make them pay their fare, which is what he did.

    His workable plan is to inspire a public debate that forces TFL to take steps to stamp out the practice, rather than watching whilst it happens and putting fares up for those who pay, or getting the begging bowl out for more funding.

    It is entirely legitimate, and this daft carping is purely because Jenrick is a right wing Tory complaining about a Labour issue. Change the rosette, and you'd be full of praise.
    Hang on. People don't see "A Labour issue". This isn't about faredodging, its about the rampant crime wave sweeping the country thanks to a lack of police and a lack of trials and a jack of jails.

    Which everyone blames the Tories for, because its the Tories fault. The idea that the faredodging element of the rampant crime wave is a Labour issue because of who the mayor is demonstrates almost HYUFD levels of hopium.
    Jenrick must have gamed this and thought "I'm onto a winner here, because the punters believe crime started after July '24". I suspect using the incumbency factor he has some mileage in his theory.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,080
    What good company Nigel keeps. His represents tradition and continuity, in his tweed jacket.
  • TazTaz Posts: 18,552

    I see Farage wants tougher abortion laws. Does he have his own ideas, or does he just do whatever the US Right says now?

    Good point. He’s over there getting his orders from the ‘US Right’ right now 🤔
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,758
    edited May 30
    Morning all.
    Very weirdly all reference to the local by election Con gain in Maldon last night seem to have been memory holed on twitter with some suggestion its counting today......the tweet from which i copied the result has disappeared so my sincere apologies if that turns out to have been fake news
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,459
    Eabhal said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Incidentally, does anyone else find there was a certain irony in Jenrick confronting fare dodgers while he himself had not paid the necessary fee to carry out filming?

    Does he not realise there might just be a tiny issue there?

    Er, no. Bodycams are worn all the time by police and ticket inspectors, cyclists and runners have GoPros, the stations are littered with CCTV, and everyone Vlogs or films stuff on their phones all the time.

    No-one gives the slightest fuck mate. This is all about TfL (and Khan) being pissed off a Tory politician did an expose and embarrassed them.

    Nothing more, nothing less.
    Er, no. I don't think you quite understand the problem. You are allowed to take images or videos in any public place for personal use. (Staff have permission from the employer so your examples are not relevant.)

    You are not allowed to take them for non-personal particularly commercial use without prior written permission and probably payment of a fee.

    Does Jenrick's behaviour count as 'commercial use?' Very probably. Or to put it another way, as TikTok is riddled with adverts it will have been used commercially at some level. At the very least, as he's admitted breaking the rules and he is after all a lawyer albeit a rather bad one, he clearly thinks so.

    So he's done (checks notes) exactly what he was calling out other people for doing.

    And there's every chance he will get an FPN for it.

    Because he's thick as mince as well as a nasty piece of work, he can't spot the irony, but those of us who see this Mickey Mouse politician for what he is can enjoy it and point and laugh at him.

    (At the very least, such entitlement and lack of judgement demonstrates if further demonstration were needed of why he's unfit for political office.)
    Please keep pushing this line, it's gold.
    Ok, here's another point for you then. If he'd got permission his video would have been solid evidence of multiple offences and could have been used for prosecutions.

    As he didn't have permission no case of any description can be brought.

    Is that an optimal outcome?

    Is that the sort of thing a man who prides himself (stupidly, but hey) on being a successful lawyer should be achieving?
    I don't think that's true at all. Plenty of court cases where the evidence or witness is pretty dodgy in itself.
    On the subject of video in public, it is a matter of fact that the police constantly request videos to use in their investigations

    Only this week the police have sought video evidence of a car being driven dangerously in Llandudno

    On Jenrick he has hit a nerve on the left and I have no doubt at all that a prosecution by TFL would spectacularly backfire
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,789
    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    I see Farage wants tougher abortion laws. Does he have his own ideas, or does he just do whatever the US Right says now?

    This is the big worry with Farage. Becoming purely an appendage of a Trumpian U.S.,with all that might bring along with it for democracy and the rule of law
    Surely this is the ticking time bomb?


    You're saying Farage has been groomed ?
    From Farages past statements about Tate, I suspect vice-versa.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,967

    Andy_JS said:

    "Attorney General compares Tories and Reform to Nazis
    Anger as Lord Hermer warns that rejection of ECHR resembles 1930s Germany"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/05/29/quit-echr-like-rise-of-nazism-starmer-lord-hermer/

    Another misleading Telegraph headline.
    Good morning

    This is not the Telegraph reporting the same story

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/attorney-general-echr-nazi-germany-nigel-farage-tories-reform-kemi-badenoch-b1230383.html
    "Standard, Standard. Get you Standard!"

    Isn't the Standard still owned by the son of a KGB officer and friend of Boris Johnson, Lord Lebedev?
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 18,788

    A couple of questions about our have-a-go hero;

    Did he make these rapscallions pay their train fares?

    Does he have a workable plan to reduce fare dodging?

    Otherwise, he's one of those grumpy men waving their fists at Dennis the Menace as he runs away.

    A public citizen doesn't have the power to 'make' other people pay their fares - he can however bring their fare dodging to the notice of TFL staff on the scene, whose actual job is to make them pay their fare, which is what he did.

    His workable plan is to inspire a public debate that forces TFL to take steps to stamp out the practice, rather than watching whilst it happens and putting fares up for those who pay, or getting the begging bowl out for more funding.

    It is entirely legitimate, and this daft carping is purely because Jenrick is a right wing Tory complaining about a Labour issue. Change the rosette, and you'd be full of praise.
    Hang on. People don't see "A Labour issue". This isn't about faredodging, its about the rampant crime wave sweeping the country thanks to a lack of police and a lack of trials and a jack of jails.

    Which everyone blames the Tories for, because its the Tories fault. The idea that the faredodging element of the rampant crime wave is a Labour issue because of who the mayor is demonstrates almost HYUFD levels of hopium.
    To be fair to Jenners and his fans, Labour are the ones in power, so it is their problem. One of Starmer's problems is public impatience. Even if he were better than he is, there would still be a huge amount of leftover vomit to clean up, and the stench is awful.

    And although gate jumping is a long way from being the most expensive bit of fare dodging, it's very visible and quite scary when it happens near you- especially when you have opened the gate and someone pushes behind you. Campaigning on it is a smart bit of political theatre.

    It's also probably nonsense. The cost of stamping out gate jumping (enforcement at stations, prosecution and punishment) almost certainly exceeds the cash savings that would accrue. It might be worth doing for the sake of it, to make the public safer and happier, but it won't be cheap and at the moment, everything has to be cheap.

    But like some other notorious campaign gimmicks of the last decade, none of that matters. Politicians have learned that, if you say things cleverly, you don't have to get the details right. Because if anyone tries to correct the details, they sound boring and it just proves your unsaid point.

    And that's true whatever the rosette, and I get why it's smart politics. But it leads to bad government.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 14,636

    Morning all.
    Very weirdly all reference to the local by election Con gain in Maldon last night seem to have been memory holed on twitter with some suggestion its counting today......the tweet from which i copied the result has disappeared so my sincere apologies if that turns out to have been fake news

    Yep, pretty much confirmed. One or two people got a bit excited and confused their Maldon Wests with their Maldon Norths. Counting starts at 10.30 this morning for Maldon West.

    Happy to discuss the strong LD hold in Newhaven.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,262

    A couple of questions about our have-a-go hero;

    Did he make these rapscallions pay their train fares?

    Does he have a workable plan to reduce fare dodging?

    Otherwise, he's one of those grumpy men waving their fists at Dennis the Menace as he runs away.

    A public citizen doesn't have the power to 'make' other people pay their fares - he can however bring their fare dodging to the notice of TFL staff on the scene, whose actual job is to make them pay their fare, which is what he did.

    His workable plan is to inspire a public debate that forces TFL to take steps to stamp out the practice, rather than watching whilst it happens and putting fares up for those who pay, or getting the begging bowl out for more funding.

    It is entirely legitimate, and this daft carping is purely because Jenrick is a right wing Tory complaining about a Labour issue. Change the rosette, and you'd be full of praise.
    Hang on. People don't see "A Labour issue". This isn't about faredodging, its about the rampant crime wave sweeping the country thanks to a lack of police and a lack of trials and a jack of jails.

    Which everyone blames the Tories for, because its the Tories fault. The idea that the faredodging element of the rampant crime wave is a Labour issue because of who the mayor is demonstrates almost HYUFD levels of hopium.
    Jenrick must have gamed this and thought "I'm onto a winner here, because the punters believe crime started after July '24". I suspect using the incumbency factor he has some mileage in his theory.
    What entertains me is how that video was made. Jenrick's camera person captures the person push through the barrier - was already filming. And then another. And another.

    So either: they've seen one person push through and thought "lets film", or they're just hanging around with the camera rolling waiting for people to push through.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 38,577
    Parody Keir Starmer
    @Parody_PM

    Who better to lecture people on the immorality of fare dodging than Robert Jenrick, the man who overruled a planning decision to save a billionaire pornographer £45m in exchange for a £12,000 donation.
  • TazTaz Posts: 18,552
    Foxy said:

    I see Farage wants tougher abortion laws. Does he have his own ideas, or does he just do whatever the US Right says now?

    This is the big worry with Farage. Becoming purely an appendage of a Trumpian U.S.,with all that might bring along with it for democracy and the rule of law
    Surely this is the ticking time bomb?


    Hmmmm


  • eekeek Posts: 30,084

    A couple of questions about our have-a-go hero;

    Did he make these rapscallions pay their train fares?

    Does he have a workable plan to reduce fare dodging?

    Otherwise, he's one of those grumpy men waving their fists at Dennis the Menace as he runs away.

    A public citizen doesn't have the power to 'make' other people pay their fares - he can however bring their fare dodging to the notice of TFL staff on the scene, whose actual job is to make them pay their fare, which is what he did.

    His workable plan is to inspire a public debate that forces TFL to take steps to stamp out the practice, rather than watching whilst it happens and putting fares up for those who pay, or getting the begging bowl out for more funding.

    It is entirely legitimate, and this daft carping is purely because Jenrick is a right wing Tory complaining about a Labour issue. Change the rosette, and you'd be full of praise.
    Hang on. People don't see "A Labour issue". This isn't about faredodging, its about the rampant crime wave sweeping the country thanks to a lack of police and a lack of trials and a jack of jails.

    Which everyone blames the Tories for, because its the Tories fault. The idea that the faredodging element of the rampant crime wave is a Labour issue because of who the mayor is demonstrates almost HYUFD levels of hopium.
    Fare dodging is higher in Paris and New York. In Vienna and Berlin there are no gates and I suspect it’s way more rampant there because I’ve never had a ticket inspected.

    In fact the only place where fare dodging isn’t common is Copenhagen but that’s because they have an awful lot more revenue checkers
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,080
    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    I see Farage wants tougher abortion laws. Does he have his own ideas, or does he just do whatever the US Right says now?

    This is the big worry with Farage. Becoming purely an appendage of a Trumpian U.S.,with all that might bring along with it for democracy and the rule of law
    Surely this is the ticking time bomb?


    Hmmmm


    Saville was not a political figure open about his views, though.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,967

    A couple of questions about our have-a-go hero;

    Did he make these rapscallions pay their train fares?

    Does he have a workable plan to reduce fare dodging?

    Otherwise, he's one of those grumpy men waving their fists at Dennis the Menace as he runs away.

    A public citizen doesn't have the power to 'make' other people pay their fares - he can however bring their fare dodging to the notice of TFL staff on the scene, whose actual job is to make them pay their fare, which is what he did.

    His workable plan is to inspire a public debate that forces TFL to take steps to stamp out the practice, rather than watching whilst it happens and putting fares up for those who pay, or getting the begging bowl out for more funding.

    It is entirely legitimate, and this daft carping is purely because Jenrick is a right wing Tory complaining about a Labour issue. Change the rosette, and you'd be full of praise.
    Hang on. People don't see "A Labour issue". This isn't about faredodging, its about the rampant crime wave sweeping the country thanks to a lack of police and a lack of trials and a jack of jails.

    Which everyone blames the Tories for, because its the Tories fault. The idea that the faredodging element of the rampant crime wave is a Labour issue because of who the mayor is demonstrates almost HYUFD levels of hopium.
    To be fair to Jenners and his fans, Labour are the ones in power, so it is their problem. One of Starmer's problems is public impatience. Even if he were better than he is, there would still be a huge amount of leftover vomit to clean up, and the stench is awful.

    And although gate jumping is a long way from being the most expensive bit of fare dodging, it's very visible and quite scary when it happens near you- especially when you have opened the gate and someone pushes behind you. Campaigning on it is a smart bit of political theatre.

    It's also probably nonsense. The cost of stamping out gate jumping (enforcement at stations, prosecution and punishment) almost certainly exceeds the cash savings that would accrue. It might be worth doing for the sake of it, to make the public safer and happier, but it won't be cheap and at the moment, everything has to be cheap.

    But like some other notorious campaign gimmicks of the last decade, none of that matters. Politicians have learned that, if you say things cleverly, you don't have to get the details right. Because if anyone tries to correct the details, they sound boring and it just proves your unsaid point.

    And that's true whatever the rosette, and I get why it's smart politics. But it leads to bad government.
    I believe that to be true.

    Behind Jenrick's Machiavellian campaign is this notion that Jenrick is outraged that the once steaming pile of excrement he left for someone else to clear up hasn't been cleared up in an appropriately timely manner on a timescale set by him.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,262

    A couple of questions about our have-a-go hero;

    Did he make these rapscallions pay their train fares?

    Does he have a workable plan to reduce fare dodging?

    Otherwise, he's one of those grumpy men waving their fists at Dennis the Menace as he runs away.

    A public citizen doesn't have the power to 'make' other people pay their fares - he can however bring their fare dodging to the notice of TFL staff on the scene, whose actual job is to make them pay their fare, which is what he did.

    His workable plan is to inspire a public debate that forces TFL to take steps to stamp out the practice, rather than watching whilst it happens and putting fares up for those who pay, or getting the begging bowl out for more funding.

    It is entirely legitimate, and this daft carping is purely because Jenrick is a right wing Tory complaining about a Labour issue. Change the rosette, and you'd be full of praise.
    Hang on. People don't see "A Labour issue". This isn't about faredodging, its about the rampant crime wave sweeping the country thanks to a lack of police and a lack of trials and a jack of jails.

    Which everyone blames the Tories for, because its the Tories fault. The idea that the faredodging element of the rampant crime wave is a Labour issue because of who the mayor is demonstrates almost HYUFD levels of hopium.
    To be fair to Jenners and his fans, Labour are the ones in power, so it is their problem. One of Starmer's problems is public impatience. Even if he were better than he is, there would still be a huge amount of leftover vomit to clean up, and the stench is awful.

    And although gate jumping is a long way from being the most expensive bit of fare dodging, it's very visible and quite scary when it happens near you- especially when you have opened the gate and someone pushes behind you. Campaigning on it is a smart bit of political theatre.

    It's also probably nonsense. The cost of stamping out gate jumping (enforcement at stations, prosecution and punishment) almost certainly exceeds the cash savings that would accrue. It might be worth doing for the sake of it, to make the public safer and happier, but it won't be cheap and at the moment, everything has to be cheap.

    But like some other notorious campaign gimmicks of the last decade, none of that matters. Politicians have learned that, if you say things cleverly, you don't have to get the details right. Because if anyone tries to correct the details, they sound boring and it just proves your unsaid point.

    And that's true whatever the rosette, and I get why it's smart politics. But it leads to bad government.
    People expect Labour to do something - they are in government. But very few are blaming Labour for the rampant crime wave they inherited. They know this didn't start in July last year and they know that the demolition of criminal justice was done by the Tories.

    Jenrick has boosted his chances of replacing Badenoch so job done. But he is going to be challenged hard on how his government let this happen. And as yet I haven't seen any signs of recognition from the remaining Tory MPs that they understand the utter mess they left and the anger against them for causing it.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,591
    edited May 30

    Foxy said:

    Eabhal said:

    A couple of questions about our have-a-go hero;

    Did he make these rapscallions pay their train fares?

    Does he have a workable plan to reduce fare dodging?

    Otherwise, he's one of those grumpy men waving their fists at Dennis the Menace as he runs away.

    That group of grumpy men is significantly larger than the Conservative's current vote share.

    The really cynical thing to do would be drug drivers after the widely held assumption about the Liverpool driver. He'd have to be careful not to mention that incident though.
    The Liverpool driver is apparently an ex Royal Marine commando so for the moment that has cauterised the incident as a wound for the right to pick at.
    I can see where this is going. The PTSD defence.

    Not completely unreasonable either. A lot of veterans have it, causing explosive acts of temper.

    Though one denied to asylum seekers it seems. Their traumas are washed clean on arrival.
    'Surely the evidence is clear and unambiguous - this guy has been fitted up. The perp was a MUSLIM because muslims are the bad people, not people who look like me, we are the victims. So the evil scum have not only lied to hide that it was a MUSLIM but they've fitted up one of our brave boys as well.

    There's only one way to have justice, and that's to ransack Greggs or something'

    Parody, but only a slight exaggeration of what is being posted on Twitter
    Best get yourself off Leon's stream, then
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,459

    Andy_JS said:

    "Attorney General compares Tories and Reform to Nazis
    Anger as Lord Hermer warns that rejection of ECHR resembles 1930s Germany"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/05/29/quit-echr-like-rise-of-nazism-starmer-lord-hermer/

    Another misleading Telegraph headline.
    Good morning

    This is not the Telegraph reporting the same story

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/attorney-general-echr-nazi-germany-nigel-farage-tories-reform-kemi-badenoch-b1230383.html
    "Standard, Standard. Get you Standard!"

    Isn't the Standard still owned by the son of a KGB officer and friend of Boris Johnson, Lord Lebedev?
    How about the Argus then

    https://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/news/national/25201677.attorney-general-compares-calls-leave-international-courts-nazi-germany/
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,080

    A couple of questions about our have-a-go hero;

    Did he make these rapscallions pay their train fares?

    Does he have a workable plan to reduce fare dodging?

    Otherwise, he's one of those grumpy men waving their fists at Dennis the Menace as he runs away.

    A public citizen doesn't have the power to 'make' other people pay their fares - he can however bring their fare dodging to the notice of TFL staff on the scene, whose actual job is to make them pay their fare, which is what he did.

    His workable plan is to inspire a public debate that forces TFL to take steps to stamp out the practice, rather than watching whilst it happens and putting fares up for those who pay, or getting the begging bowl out for more funding.

    It is entirely legitimate, and this daft carping is purely because Jenrick is a right wing Tory complaining about a Labour issue. Change the rosette, and you'd be full of praise.
    Hang on. People don't see "A Labour issue". This isn't about faredodging, its about the rampant crime wave sweeping the country thanks to a lack of police and a lack of trials and a jack of jails.

    Which everyone blames the Tories for, because its the Tories fault. The idea that the faredodging element of the rampant crime wave is a Labour issue because of who the mayor is demonstrates almost HYUFD levels of hopium.
    To be fair to Jenners and his fans, Labour are the ones in power, so it is their problem. One of Starmer's problems is public impatience. Even if he were better than he is, there would still be a huge amount of leftover vomit to clean up, and the stench is awful.

    And although gate jumping is a long way from being the most expensive bit of fare dodging, it's very visible and quite scary when it happens near you- especially when you have opened the gate and someone pushes behind you. Campaigning on it is a smart bit of political theatre.

    It's also probably nonsense. The cost of stamping out gate jumping (enforcement at stations, prosecution and punishment) almost certainly exceeds the cash savings that would accrue. It might be worth doing for the sake of it, to make the public safer and happier, but it won't be cheap and at the moment, everything has to be cheap.

    But like some other notorious campaign gimmicks of the last decade, none of that matters. Politicians have learned that, if you say things cleverly, you don't have to get the details right. Because if anyone tries to correct the details, they sound boring and it just proves your unsaid point.

    And that's true whatever the rosette, and I get why it's smart politics. But it leads to bad government.
    I believe that to be true.

    Behind Jenrick's Machiavellian campaign is this notion that Jenrick is outraged that the once steaming pile of excrement he left for someone else to clear up hasn't been cleared up in an appropriately timely manner on a timescale set by him.
    He certainly understands social media, like a cunning salesman.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,789
    edited May 30
    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    I see Farage wants tougher abortion laws. Does he have his own ideas, or does he just do whatever the US Right says now?

    This is the big worry with Farage. Becoming purely an appendage of a Trumpian U.S.,with all that might bring along with it for democracy and the rule of law
    Surely this is the ticking time bomb?


    Hmmmm


    It's more than a photo though. Farage has described himself as part of "the same phenomenon" as Tate as recently as last year.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jul/03/farage-says-he-is-part-of-similar-phenomenon-to-andrew-tate-among-young-men

    I don't agree with Farage on much, but I think he is actually right on this one.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,967
    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    I see Farage wants tougher abortion laws. Does he have his own ideas, or does he just do whatever the US Right says now?

    This is the big worry with Farage. Becoming purely an appendage of a Trumpian U.S.,with all that might bring along with it for democracy and the rule of law
    Surely this is the ticking time bomb?


    Hmmmm


    In the interests of balance you could also use the snaps of Savile enjoying his Christmas fare with the Thatchers at Chequers.

    https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo/jimmy-savile-thatcher.html?sortBy=relevant
  • isamisam Posts: 41,902

    A couple of questions about our have-a-go hero;

    Did he make these rapscallions pay their train fares?

    Does he have a workable plan to reduce fare dodging?

    Otherwise, he's one of those grumpy men waving their fists at Dennis the Menace as he runs away.

    A public citizen doesn't have the power to 'make' other people pay their fares - he can however bring their fare dodging to the notice of TFL staff on the scene, whose actual job is to make them pay their fare, which is what he did.

    His workable plan is to inspire a public debate that forces TFL to take steps to stamp out the practice, rather than watching whilst it happens and putting fares up for those who pay, or getting the begging bowl out for more funding.

    It is entirely legitimate, and this daft carping is purely because Jenrick is a right wing Tory complaining about a Labour issue. Change the rosette, and you'd be full of praise.
    Hang on. People don't see "A Labour issue". This isn't about faredodging, its about the rampant crime wave sweeping the country thanks to a lack of police and a lack of trials and a jack of jails.

    Which everyone blames the Tories for, because its the Tories fault. The idea that the faredodging element of the rampant crime wave is a Labour issue because of who the mayor is demonstrates almost HYUFD levels of hopium.
    To be fair to Jenners and his fans, Labour are the ones in power, so it is their problem. One of Starmer's problems is public impatience. Even if he were better than he is, there would still be a huge amount of leftover vomit to clean up, and the stench is awful.

    And although gate jumping is a long way from being the most expensive bit of fare dodging, it's very visible and quite scary when it happens near you- especially when you have opened the gate and someone pushes behind you. Campaigning on it is a smart bit of political theatre.

    It's also probably nonsense. The cost of stamping out gate jumping (enforcement at stations, prosecution and punishment) almost certainly exceeds the cash savings that would accrue. It might be worth doing for the sake of it, to make the public safer and happier, but it won't be cheap and at the moment, everything has to be cheap.

    But like some other notorious campaign gimmicks of the last decade, none of that matters. Politicians have learned that, if you say things cleverly, you don't have to get the details right. Because if anyone tries to correct the details, they sound boring and it just proves your unsaid point.

    And that's true whatever the rosette, and I get why it's smart politics. But it leads to bad government.
    Labour have been in charge in London for a decade, so exposing TfL is fare game
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,262

    A couple of questions about our have-a-go hero;

    Did he make these rapscallions pay their train fares?

    Does he have a workable plan to reduce fare dodging?

    Otherwise, he's one of those grumpy men waving their fists at Dennis the Menace as he runs away.

    A public citizen doesn't have the power to 'make' other people pay their fares - he can however bring their fare dodging to the notice of TFL staff on the scene, whose actual job is to make them pay their fare, which is what he did.

    His workable plan is to inspire a public debate that forces TFL to take steps to stamp out the practice, rather than watching whilst it happens and putting fares up for those who pay, or getting the begging bowl out for more funding.

    It is entirely legitimate, and this daft carping is purely because Jenrick is a right wing Tory complaining about a Labour issue. Change the rosette, and you'd be full of praise.
    Hang on. People don't see "A Labour issue". This isn't about faredodging, its about the rampant crime wave sweeping the country thanks to a lack of police and a lack of trials and a jack of jails.

    Which everyone blames the Tories for, because its the Tories fault. The idea that the faredodging element of the rampant crime wave is a Labour issue because of who the mayor is demonstrates almost HYUFD levels of hopium.
    To be fair to Jenners and his fans, Labour are the ones in power, so it is their problem. One of Starmer's problems is public impatience. Even if he were better than he is, there would still be a huge amount of leftover vomit to clean up, and the stench is awful.

    And although gate jumping is a long way from being the most expensive bit of fare dodging, it's very visible and quite scary when it happens near you- especially when you have opened the gate and someone pushes behind you. Campaigning on it is a smart bit of political theatre.

    It's also probably nonsense. The cost of stamping out gate jumping (enforcement at stations, prosecution and punishment) almost certainly exceeds the cash savings that would accrue. It might be worth doing for the sake of it, to make the public safer and happier, but it won't be cheap and at the moment, everything has to be cheap.

    But like some other notorious campaign gimmicks of the last decade, none of that matters. Politicians have learned that, if you say things cleverly, you don't have to get the details right. Because if anyone tries to correct the details, they sound boring and it just proves your unsaid point.

    And that's true whatever the rosette, and I get why it's smart politics. But it leads to bad government.
    I believe that to be true.

    Behind Jenrick's Machiavellian campaign is this notion that Jenrick is outraged that the once steaming pile of excrement he left for someone else to clear up hasn't been cleared up in an appropriately timely manner on a timescale set by him.
    He certainly understands social media, like a cunning salesman.
    Naah, it's all about reels bruv. Needs to shoot portrait not landscape.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,758
    edited May 30
    stodge said:

    Morning all.
    Very weirdly all reference to the local by election Con gain in Maldon last night seem to have been memory holed on twitter with some suggestion its counting today......the tweet from which i copied the result has disappeared so my sincere apologies if that turns out to have been fake news

    Yep, pretty much confirmed. One or two people got a bit excited and confused their Maldon Wests with their Maldon Norths. Counting starts at 10.30 this morning for Maldon West.

    Happy to discuss the strong LD hold in Newhaven.
    Was about to post again yes appears to have been Maldon North from March! I think because that one also didnt have a Lab candidate it confused the world in the wee hours. Again, apologies from me to all, it was late and seemed official enough (and the vote share chsngd calcs fitted but obvs theyd just retrofitted those). I'd not intentionally mislead.
    Newhaven again a strong LD hold yes, i think Lewes looks safe! Reform hoovering up the second place is different to last weeks holds and the Tory vote collapsed to buttons alongside Labours even smaller buttons
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,686
    edited May 30
    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    I see Farage wants tougher abortion laws. Does he have his own ideas, or does he just do whatever the US Right says now?

    This is the big worry with Farage. Becoming purely an appendage of a Trumpian U.S.,with all that might bring along with it for democracy and the rule of law
    Surely this is the ticking time bomb?


    Hmmmm


    Not the same though is it? Saville wasn't known about at the time of those meetings. Tate was.

    Re Farage's views on abortion - I think it is unfair to taint him with the US stance on this. Having listened to him, he clearly thinks it is a matter of conscious and wasn't making it a party line and only seemed to have an issue with the edge cases citing the 22 - 24 week issue.

    Having said both of those things it is perception rather than facts that will probably count with the electorate.
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