I think an early morning walk in the Lakes is necessary
How long have you got? Shap is the very edge of the Lakes and can feel a little bleak. My recommendation for a quick taste of the lakes without delaying you too much on your journey would be to head up the M66 to the A66 junction (J40?), then head west and immediately south down Ullswater and head for the car park for Aira Force - there is a nice little walk up to the Lakes's loveliest waterfall with splendid views down over Ullswater. You may see some red squirrels. You will get the benefit of some beauty, some fresh air and exercise, but can be back on your way fairly quickly.
Ta! Apparently it’s gonna be lovely and sunny tomorrow so I shall probably do that hike! - then head on to St Andrews
Getting Grim for keir on socials, Suez being invoked 'biggest humiliation since'
Not sensible of him, popcorn aside, to accuse RefTories of siding with Russia/Iran etc given the anger of a lot of normies about it all.
I really don't get the Russia/Iran angle. I mean it's desperation. Still, it nearly worked on BigG. Perhaps Starmer should have somehow indicated that the deal was steadfast in its opposition to Tommy Robinson for the hattrick.
Getting Grim for keir on socials, Suez being invoked 'biggest humiliation since'
Not sensible of him, popcorn aside, to accuse RefTories of siding with Russia/Iran etc given the anger of a lot of normies about it all.
I really don't get the Russia/Iran angle. I mean it's desperation. Still, it nearly worked on BigG. Perhaps Starmer should have somehow indicated that the deal was steadfast in its opposition to Tommy Robinson for the hattrick.
Or stated that it's particularly good for working people and opposition to it is totes far right
“I have largely stayed quiet on my own views of the Chagos debacle because quite frankly it sits somewhere between the most astounding political naivety in my lifetime, apologist appeasement drenched in a self-loathing of our nation and it's history - and treason.
But the below two clips perfectly encapsulates how *once again* as Parliament goes into recces the details become apparent to all.
It was indeed drenched in national self-loathing and appeasement… and now it is evidently clear actually endangers national security far worse than any ICJ advisory text would ever be.
The absolute scandal that this has now become shames the entire government & civil service desperate to peddle this in secrecy, through two lots of Parliamentary recces, all the while treating both the British public & worse still Chagossians as fools”
Getting Grim for keir on socials, Suez being invoked 'biggest humiliation since'
Not sensible of him, popcorn aside, to accuse RefTories of siding with Russia/Iran etc given the anger of a lot of normies about it all.
I really don't get the Russia/Iran angle. I mean it's desperation. Still, it nearly worked on BigG. Perhaps Starmer should have somehow indicated that the deal was steadfast in its opposition to Tommy Robinson for the hattrick.
Or stated that it's particularly good for working people and opposition to it is totes far right
To try and make this an identity issue is so desperately manipulative you just have to laugh.
Here’s that well known Nazi think tank the, er, Financial Times
“John Healey, defending the Chagos deal, says: “international legal proceedings could have rendered the base inoperable". Frankly this government completely failed to make this case in a detailed & convincing way—and it remains unconvincing. Many people across gov’t disagree”
I wonder if there is a form of words that is legally watertight whereby Starmer can be asked at PMQs to sign a legally binding agreement that he can never benefit financially from the Chagos handover.
It would be pretty obvious as he stuttered and gobbled like a landed trout what was up.
Or he might agree to sign and set peoples' minds at rest.
A catastrophic 170 majority while youse all lose your shit for another 4 years. How will they cope?
Starmer will be gone before the 4 years are up. Partly because of this
Even the Guardian is now admitting this deal is really unpopular with some in the Labour party - giving £100m to Mauritius every year - imagine what that could do to some impoverished British city?
I see BBC iPlayer is promoting George Floyd BLM shit to the top of its "recommended" list, regardless of what you say or do. George Floyd: a global reckoning.
I couldn't give a fuck, and have zero interest.
But no doubt they get EDI bonus points at BBC HQ for peddling this shit.
A catastrophic 170 majority while youse all lose your shit for another 4 years. How will they cope?
Starmer will be gone before the 4 years are up. Partly because of this
Even the Guardian is now admitting this deal is really unpopular with some in the Labour party - giving £100m to Mauritius every year - imagine what that could do to some impoverished British city?
The Holborn and St Pancras gazette will be calling him a turd by Saturday
SCOOP: Keir Starmer is at odds with his chief of staff, Morgan McSweeney, over whether to scrap the two-child benefit cap, according to multiple sources.
The Prime Minister wants to lift the cap, while McSweeney is the "main opponent" to the move.
The fiscal rules and financial probity are deeply inconvenient right now Morgan, people think I'm a total shit and everything
SCOOP: Keir Starmer is at odds with his chief of staff, Morgan McSweeney, over whether to scrap the two-child benefit cap, according to multiple sources.
The Prime Minister wants to lift the cap, while McSweeney is the "main opponent" to the move.
The fiscal rules and financial probity are deeply inconvenient right now Morgan, people think I'm a total shit and everything
Starting to creek on everything now
Just push back Zarah/Richard/Nadia/Diane etc he'll cave again
OMG, so many deluded by Starmer derangement syndrome this evening.
The absolute obsession with turning every minor deal into the betrayal of the UK is getting a bit tedious.
Between that and our deeply uninspiring government, it's going to be a long four yrlears.
It's quite amusing that idiots like Leon who cheered Boris Johnson's deals which put down a border in the Irish Sea accuse others of treason.
They can literally get in the fucking sea.
I ceased being offended by Leon some time ago.
As the great man said, "mostly harmless".
Leon might be harmless but all of this language about treason and betrayal which is whipped up on social media isn't. I work in a job which acts as a connection between the public and government. Some of the opinions expressed are shocking and something that I've never seen before. There are many people who genuinely think that Starmer ought to be executed under the Treason Act. Hyperbole about treason might seem funny on here but I fear it's real world consequences.
Agreed.
But he is a traitor.
I'll say to you what I'm not allowed to say during work (and apologies if I'm overreacting) but of course he fucking isn't. He has a different idea of what is in the international interest to you and he has the constitutional authority to do what he is doing. You can call him stupid, deluded, misguided or a fucking idiot but he's obviously not a traitor.
I don't give a shit about the international interest.
I care about the national interest like, you know, he's elected to represent.
But how can you think it's treachery?
Because he's sold out British sovereignty and territory to a foreign power in hock to China at significant cost to the public purse.
Did you feel the same when the Tories sold out Northern Ireland and had to pay for the privilege?
Northern Ireland is still UK territory.
It would take a long time to list all of the British sovereign territory that various governments have ceded over the years. Presumably that makes Gladstone, Harold Macmillan, Douglas Home and Harold Wilson traitors too.
Don't forget Thatcher, the Anglo-Irish agreement, Hong Kong, I could go on.
Northern Ireland is still British, despite the Anglo-Irish Agreement.
SCOOP: Keir Starmer is at odds with his chief of staff, Morgan McSweeney, over whether to scrap the two-child benefit cap, according to multiple sources.
The Prime Minister wants to lift the cap, while McSweeney is the "main opponent" to the move.
The fiscal rules and financial probity are deeply inconvenient right now Morgan, people think I'm a total shit and everything
OMG, so many deluded by Starmer derangement syndrome this evening.
The absolute obsession with turning every minor deal into the betrayal of the UK is getting a bit tedious.
Between that and our deeply uninspiring government, it's going to be a long four yrlears.
It's quite amusing that idiots like Leon who cheered Boris Johnson's deals which put down a border in the Irish Sea accuse others of treason.
They can literally get in the fucking sea.
I ceased being offended by Leon some time ago.
As the great man said, "mostly harmless".
Leon might be harmless but all of this language about treason and betrayal which is whipped up on social media isn't. I work in a job which acts as a connection between the public and government. Some of the opinions expressed are shocking and something that I've never seen before. There are many people who genuinely think that Starmer ought to be executed under the Treason Act. Hyperbole about treason might seem funny on here but I fear it's real world consequences.
Agreed.
But he is a traitor.
I'll say to you what I'm not allowed to say during work (and apologies if I'm overreacting) but of course he fucking isn't. He has a different idea of what is in the international interest to you and he has the constitutional authority to do what he is doing. You can call him stupid, deluded, misguided or a fucking idiot but he's obviously not a traitor.
I don't give a shit about the international interest.
I care about the national interest like, you know, he's elected to represent.
But how can you think it's treachery?
Because he's sold out British sovereignty and territory to a foreign power in hock to China at significant cost to the public purse.
Did you feel the same when the Tories sold out Northern Ireland and had to pay for the privilege?
Northern Ireland is still UK territory.
It would take a long time to list all of the British sovereign territory that various governments have ceded over the years. Presumably that makes Gladstone, Harold Macmillan, Douglas Home and Harold Wilson traitors too.
Don't forget Thatcher, the Anglo-Irish agreement, Hong Kong, I could go on.
That probably parly explains it. For Starmer, things like the Anglo-Irish agreement, handover of Hong Kong and GFA came at a formative time of his life and he wants his own 'decolonisation moment'.
I see BBC iPlayer is promoting George Floyd BLM shit to the top of its "recommended" list, regardless of what you say or do. George Floyd: a global reckoning.
I couldn't give a fuck, and have zero interest.
But no doubt they get EDI bonus points at BBC HQ for peddling this shit.
Virtually every default Apple Classical playlist is not "Best of X" but "Best of X performed recently by minority artist". EDI bonus points, and actually funnelling royalties to people based on their minority status.
Also LD hold in Eastleigh on a moderately reduced majority, Tories again just holding off Reform for second (by 7 votes) Labour 4th with about 5% this time
Interesting to see almost all Labour and Green voters voting LD in Carshalton, almost as if they were afraid of one of either Con or RefUK winning the seat, although that was very unlikely.
“I have largely stayed quiet on my own views of the Chagos debacle because quite frankly it sits somewhere between the most astounding political naivety in my lifetime, apologist appeasement drenched in a self-loathing of our nation and it's history - and treason.
But the below two clips perfectly encapsulates how *once again* as Parliament goes into recces the details become apparent to all.
It was indeed drenched in national self-loathing and appeasement… and now it is evidently clear actually endangers national security far worse than any ICJ advisory text would ever be.
The absolute scandal that this has now become shames the entire government & civil service desperate to peddle this in secrecy, through two lots of Parliamentary recces, all the while treating both the British public & worse still Chagossians as fools”
OMG, so many deluded by Starmer derangement syndrome this evening.
The absolute obsession with turning every minor deal into the betrayal of the UK is getting a bit tedious.
Between that and our deeply uninspiring government, it's going to be a long four yrlears.
It's quite amusing that idiots like Leon who cheered Boris Johnson's deals which put down a border in the Irish Sea accuse others of treason.
They can literally get in the fucking sea.
I ceased being offended by Leon some time ago.
As the great man said, "mostly harmless".
Leon might be harmless but all of this language about treason and betrayal which is whipped up on social media isn't. I work in a job which acts as a connection between the public and government. Some of the opinions expressed are shocking and something that I've never seen before. There are many people who genuinely think that Starmer ought to be executed under the Treason Act. Hyperbole about treason might seem funny on here but I fear it's real world consequences.
Agreed.
But he is a traitor.
I'll say to you what I'm not allowed to say during work (and apologies if I'm overreacting) but of course he fucking isn't. He has a different idea of what is in the international interest to you and he has the constitutional authority to do what he is doing. You can call him stupid, deluded, misguided or a fucking idiot but he's obviously not a traitor.
I don't give a shit about the international interest.
I care about the national interest like, you know, he's elected to represent.
But how can you think it's treachery?
Because he's sold out British sovereignty and territory to a foreign power in hock to China at significant cost to the public purse.
Did you feel the same when the Tories sold out Northern Ireland and had to pay for the privilege?
Northern Ireland is still UK territory.
It would take a long time to list all of the British sovereign territory that various governments have ceded over the years. Presumably that makes Gladstone, Harold Macmillan, Douglas Home and Harold Wilson traitors too.
Don't forget Thatcher, the Anglo-Irish agreement, Hong Kong, I could go on.
That probably parly explains it. For Starmer, things like the Anglo-Irish agreement, handover of Hong Kong and GFA came at a formative time of his life and he wants his own 'decolonisation moment'.
Then he should have handed the islands back to the Chagos Islanders not Mauritius over 2000km away
In a stunningly similar result in Horsham once again LD hold with Cons just holding off Reform for second, Labour on f all Result very very similar to 2013 with LD Con UKIP Lab all on similar shares..........
On the night LD held up well, Reform made some progress but not breaking through 3rd, Labour garbage everywhere, Cons holding second but losing vote share but to 'roughly' what 2024 would have suggested, Reform exceeding 2024s suggestion but not by a huge distance, LD retaining vote, Lab nowhere near July.
OMG, so many deluded by Starmer derangement syndrome this evening.
The absolute obsession with turning every minor deal into the betrayal of the UK is getting a bit tedious.
Between that and our deeply uninspiring government, it's going to be a long four yrlears.
It's quite amusing that idiots like Leon who cheered Boris Johnson's deals which put down a border in the Irish Sea accuse others of treason.
They can literally get in the fucking sea.
I ceased being offended by Leon some time ago.
As the great man said, "mostly harmless".
Leon might be harmless but all of this language about treason and betrayal which is whipped up on social media isn't. I work in a job which acts as a connection between the public and government. Some of the opinions expressed are shocking and something that I've never seen before. There are many people who genuinely think that Starmer ought to be executed under the Treason Act. Hyperbole about treason might seem funny on here but I fear it's real world consequences.
Agreed.
But he is a traitor.
I'll say to you what I'm not allowed to say during work (and apologies if I'm overreacting) but of course he fucking isn't. He has a different idea of what is in the international interest to you and he has the constitutional authority to do what he is doing. You can call him stupid, deluded, misguided or a fucking idiot but he's obviously not a traitor.
I don't give a shit about the international interest.
I care about the national interest like, you know, he's elected to represent.
But how can you think it's treachery?
Because he's sold out British sovereignty and territory to a foreign power in hock to China at significant cost to the public purse.
Did you feel the same when the Tories sold out Northern Ireland and had to pay for the privilege?
Northern Ireland is still UK territory.
It would take a long time to list all of the British sovereign territory that various governments have ceded over the years. Presumably that makes Gladstone, Harold Macmillan, Douglas Home and Harold Wilson traitors too.
Don't forget Thatcher, the Anglo-Irish agreement, Hong Kong, I could go on.
That probably parly explains it. For Starmer, things like the Anglo-Irish agreement, handover of Hong Kong and GFA came at a formative time of his life and he wants his own 'decolonisation moment'.
Then he should have handed the islands back to the Chagos Islanders not Mauritius over 2000km away
There are no "native" Chagos Islanders (nor Mauritians for that matter), which is what makes this whole thing ridiculous. This isn't like handing back Australia to the Aborigines.
The only people who could legitimately have a claim to compensation of some kind are those who had property rights on the island, and this definitely does not include the Mauritian government.
I also see there is a clause in the lease that says we have to tell Mauritius of any miliary action to be carried out from the base.
In a stunningly similar result in Horsham once again LD hold with Cons just holding off Reform for second, Labour on f all Result very very similar to 2013 with LD Con UKIP Lab all on similar shares..........
On the night LD held up well, Reform made some progress but not breaking through 3rd, Labour garbage everywhere, Cons holding second but losing vote share but to 'roughly' what 2024 would have suggested, Reform exceeding 2024s suggestion but not by a huge distance, LD retaining vote, Lab nowhere near July.
Mapped over to a hypothetical GE and i'd be betting as follows Horsham LD hold Carshalton and Wallington LD hold Eastleigh i'd take Con gain at evens
I see BBC iPlayer is promoting George Floyd BLM shit to the top of its "recommended" list, regardless of what you say or do. George Floyd: a global reckoning.
I couldn't give a fuck, and have zero interest.
But no doubt they get EDI bonus points at BBC HQ for peddling this shit.
For you, maybe. I need to scroll a fair way down until I get to Backlash as the second documentary. Its prominence is likely due to its having been broadcast on BBC2 Wednesday evening, and so people are watching it on catch-up.
Personally, I would not trust the Telegraph's figures on this. But it's an indication of how badly the government has handled the PR on this deal, and indicative of how badly they handle the PR of so many things that are going on.
Personally, I would not trust the Telegraph's figures on this. But it's an indication of how badly the government has handled the PR on this deal, and indicative of how badly they handle the PR of so many things that are going on.
Their accounting is obviously dishonest. You don't report cash figures 100 years into the future unadjusted for inflation.
OMG, so many deluded by Starmer derangement syndrome this evening.
The absolute obsession with turning every minor deal into the betrayal of the UK is getting a bit tedious.
Between that and our deeply uninspiring government, it's going to be a long four yrlears.
It's quite amusing that idiots like Leon who cheered Boris Johnson's deals which put down a border in the Irish Sea accuse others of treason.
They can literally get in the fucking sea.
I ceased being offended by Leon some time ago.
As the great man said, "mostly harmless".
Leon might be harmless but all of this language about treason and betrayal which is whipped up on social media isn't. I work in a job which acts as a connection between the public and government. Some of the opinions expressed are shocking and something that I've never seen before. There are many people who genuinely think that Starmer ought to be executed under the Treason Act. Hyperbole about treason might seem funny on here but I fear it's real world consequences.
Are you not being a bit hyperbolic yourself? Do these people really believe that? Or are they saying it for effect (a la Leon)?
No I don't think they are. If you're utterly convinced that the Prime Minister is a traitor then it's not a hyperbolic position. Also not wishing to be patronising but Leon reads widely whereas a lot of people only get their news from right wing social media outlets so don't have an alternative viewpoint to adopt.
Also, I honestly think he’s a traitor
It’s not hyperbole
Traitor, definition:
“In legal terms, a traitor is a person who commits treason, which is the crime of betraying one's country or sovereign through acts considered dangerous to national security. This typically involves levying war against the state, aiding its enemies, or attempting to overthrow the government”
I believe that by needlessly ceding the Chagos to Mauritius - a known and close ally of China, a near mortal enemy of the UK and the west - he is endangering the UK. Which is treachery in this definition. The fact he’s making us pay for it adds insult to injury but is not central to the facts
Others are free to disagree, and legally dispute this. It seems the Americans are not worried (but then again do we really trust them now? Trump?)
So no I’m not bandying the word about lightly. I honestly believe it. And if I honestly believe this is the case, what other word am I meant to use?! He’s being “naughty”?
FFS take a chill pill. You're an adult and this childish guff neither advances the argument nor provides any critique worth a tuppenny damn. We get it, you don't like SKS, but this isn't cogent analysis, it's the tantrum of a toddler.
OMG, so many deluded by Starmer derangement syndrome this evening.
The absolute obsession with turning every minor deal into the betrayal of the UK is getting a bit tedious.
Between that and our deeply uninspiring government, it's going to be a long four yrlears.
It's quite amusing that idiots like Leon who cheered Boris Johnson's deals which put down a border in the Irish Sea accuse others of treason.
They can literally get in the fucking sea.
I ceased being offended by Leon some time ago.
As the great man said, "mostly harmless".
Leon might be harmless but all of this language about treason and betrayal which is whipped up on social media isn't. I work in a job which acts as a connection between the public and government. Some of the opinions expressed are shocking and something that I've never seen before. There are many people who genuinely think that Starmer ought to be executed under the Treason Act. Hyperbole about treason might seem funny on here but I fear it's real world consequences.
Are you not being a bit hyperbolic yourself? Do these people really believe that? Or are they saying it for effect (a la Leon)?
No I don't think they are. If you're utterly convinced that the Prime Minister is a traitor then it's not a hyperbolic position. Also not wishing to be patronising but Leon reads widely whereas a lot of people only get their news from right wing social media outlets so don't have an alternative viewpoint to adopt.
Also, I honestly think he’s a traitor
It’s not hyperbole
Traitor, definition:
“In legal terms, a traitor is a person who commits treason, which is the crime of betraying one's country or sovereign through acts considered dangerous to national security. This typically involves levying war against the state, aiding its enemies, or attempting to overthrow the government”
I believe that by needlessly ceding the Chagos to Mauritius - a known and close ally of China, a near mortal enemy of the UK and the west - he is endangering the UK. Which is treachery in this definition. The fact he’s making us pay for it adds insult to injury but is not central to the facts
Others are free to disagree, and legally dispute this. It seems the Americans are not worried (but then again do we really trust them now? Trump?)
So no I’m not bandying the word about lightly. I honestly believe it. And if I honestly believe this is the case, what other word am I meant to use?! He’s being “naughty”?
FFS take a chill pill. You're an adult and this childish guff neither advances the argument nor provides any critique worth a tuppenny damn. We get it, you don't like SKS, but this isn't cogent analysis, it's the tantrum of a toddler.
Personally, I would not trust the Telegraph's figures on this. But it's an indication of how badly the government has handled the PR on this deal, and indicative of how badly they handle the PR of so many things that are going on.
You hit the nail on the head! The only person doing a worse job than Keir Starmer as our PM right now is the person running his Comms team in No10. I have lost count of the annoucements out of No10 this week that are either misleading or simple outright lies.
Personally, I would not trust the Telegraph's figures on this. But it's an indication of how badly the government has handled the PR on this deal, and indicative of how badly they handle the PR of so many things that are going on.
Their accounting is obviously dishonest. You don't report cash figures 100 years into the future unadjusted for inflation.
X Calgie@christiancalgie 12h Complete mess of a briefing in No10 just now in which we experienced the government machine at its evasive non-answering best.
Refusal to acknowledge the cash cost of Chagos is billions more than they’re spinning, though no denial.
Aye, the Chagos 'deal' is dumb as hell by the sounds of it. If you're an idealist, then it screws the Islanders. If you're a pragmatist, it screws us.
Let's give away sovereign territory and pay billions for the privilege. Let's give it to someone with no historic claim *except* it was administratively convenient to bracket it with the Islands during the Empire. And let that someone be in China's pocket.
In a stunningly similar result in Horsham once again LD hold with Cons just holding off Reform for second, Labour on f all Result very very similar to 2013 with LD Con UKIP Lab all on similar shares..........
On the night LD held up well, Reform made some progress but not breaking through 3rd, Labour garbage everywhere, Cons holding second but losing vote share but to 'roughly' what 2024 would have suggested, Reform exceeding 2024s suggestion but not by a huge distance, LD retaining vote, Lab nowhere near July.
Mapped over to a hypothetical GE and i'd be betting as follows Horsham LD hold Carshalton and Wallington LD hold Eastleigh i'd take Con gain at evens
If you send £100 over to TSE I'll take the other side of Eastleigh
OMG, so many deluded by Starmer derangement syndrome this evening.
The absolute obsession with turning every minor deal into the betrayal of the UK is getting a bit tedious.
Between that and our deeply uninspiring government, it's going to be a long four yrlears.
It's quite amusing that idiots like Leon who cheered Boris Johnson's deals which put down a border in the Irish Sea accuse others of treason.
They can literally get in the fucking sea.
I ceased being offended by Leon some time ago.
As the great man said, "mostly harmless".
Leon might be harmless but all of this language about treason and betrayal which is whipped up on social media isn't. I work in a job which acts as a connection between the public and government. Some of the opinions expressed are shocking and something that I've never seen before. There are many people who genuinely think that Starmer ought to be executed under the Treason Act. Hyperbole about treason might seem funny on here but I fear it's real world consequences.
Are you not being a bit hyperbolic yourself? Do these people really believe that? Or are they saying it for effect (a la Leon)?
No I don't think they are. If you're utterly convinced that the Prime Minister is a traitor then it's not a hyperbolic position. Also not wishing to be patronising but Leon reads widely whereas a lot of people only get their news from right wing social media outlets so don't have an alternative viewpoint to adopt.
Also, I honestly think he’s a traitor
It’s not hyperbole
Traitor, definition:
“In legal terms, a traitor is a person who commits treason, which is the crime of betraying one's country or sovereign through acts considered dangerous to national security. This typically involves levying war against the state, aiding its enemies, or attempting to overthrow the government”
I believe that by needlessly ceding the Chagos to Mauritius - a known and close ally of China, a near mortal enemy of the UK and the west - he is endangering the UK. Which is treachery in this definition. The fact he’s making us pay for it adds insult to injury but is not central to the facts
Others are free to disagree, and legally dispute this. It seems the Americans are not worried (but then again do we really trust them now? Trump?)
So no I’m not bandying the word about lightly. I honestly believe it. And if I honestly believe this is the case, what other word am I meant to use?! He’s being “naughty”?
FFS take a chill pill. You're an adult and this childish guff neither advances the argument nor provides any critique worth a tuppenny damn. We get it, you don't like SKS, but this isn't cogent analysis, it's the tantrum of a toddler.
Aye, the Chagos 'deal' is dumb as hell by the sounds of it. If you're an idealist, then it screws the Islanders. If you're a pragmatist, it screws us.
Let's give away sovereign territory and pay billions for the privilege. Let's give it to someone with no historic claim *except* it was administratively convenient to bracket it with the Islands during the Empire. And let that someone be in China's pocket.
I'd be astonished if that "secured for 99 years, with an option to extend for another 40 years" deal lasts a decade before another shakedown or a repudiation.
OMG, so many deluded by Starmer derangement syndrome this evening.
The absolute obsession with turning every minor deal into the betrayal of the UK is getting a bit tedious.
Between that and our deeply uninspiring government, it's going to be a long four yrlears.
It's quite amusing that idiots like Leon who cheered Boris Johnson's deals which put down a border in the Irish Sea accuse others of treason.
They can literally get in the fucking sea.
I ceased being offended by Leon some time ago.
As the great man said, "mostly harmless".
Leon might be harmless but all of this language about treason and betrayal which is whipped up on social media isn't. I work in a job which acts as a connection between the public and government. Some of the opinions expressed are shocking and something that I've never seen before. There are many people who genuinely think that Starmer ought to be executed under the Treason Act. Hyperbole about treason might seem funny on here but I fear it's real world consequences.
Are you not being a bit hyperbolic yourself? Do these people really believe that? Or are they saying it for effect (a la Leon)?
No I don't think they are. If you're utterly convinced that the Prime Minister is a traitor then it's not a hyperbolic position. Also not wishing to be patronising but Leon reads widely whereas a lot of people only get their news from right wing social media outlets so don't have an alternative viewpoint to adopt.
Also, I honestly think he’s a traitor
It’s not hyperbole
Traitor, definition:
“In legal terms, a traitor is a person who commits treason, which is the crime of betraying one's country or sovereign through acts considered dangerous to national security. This typically involves levying war against the state, aiding its enemies, or attempting to overthrow the government”
I believe that by needlessly ceding the Chagos to Mauritius - a known and close ally of China, a near mortal enemy of the UK and the west - he is endangering the UK. Which is treachery in this definition. The fact he’s making us pay for it adds insult to injury but is not central to the facts
Others are free to disagree, and legally dispute this. It seems the Americans are not worried (but then again do we really trust them now? Trump?)
So no I’m not bandying the word about lightly. I honestly believe it. And if I honestly believe this is the case, what other word am I meant to use?! He’s being “naughty”?
FFS take a chill pill. You're an adult and this childish guff neither advances the argument nor provides any critique worth a tuppenny damn. We get it, you don't like SKS, but this isn't cogent analysis, it's the tantrum of a toddler.
OMG, so many deluded by Starmer derangement syndrome this evening.
The absolute obsession with turning every minor deal into the betrayal of the UK is getting a bit tedious.
Between that and our deeply uninspiring government, it's going to be a long four yrlears.
It's quite amusing that idiots like Leon who cheered Boris Johnson's deals which put down a border in the Irish Sea accuse others of treason.
They can literally get in the fucking sea.
I ceased being offended by Leon some time ago.
As the great man said, "mostly harmless".
Leon might be harmless but all of this language about treason and betrayal which is whipped up on social media isn't. I work in a job which acts as a connection between the public and government. Some of the opinions expressed are shocking and something that I've never seen before. There are many people who genuinely think that Starmer ought to be executed under the Treason Act. Hyperbole about treason might seem funny on here but I fear it's real world consequences.
Are you not being a bit hyperbolic yourself? Do these people really believe that? Or are they saying it for effect (a la Leon)?
No I don't think they are. If you're utterly convinced that the Prime Minister is a traitor then it's not a hyperbolic position. Also not wishing to be patronising but Leon reads widely whereas a lot of people only get their news from right wing social media outlets so don't have an alternative viewpoint to adopt.
Also, I honestly think he’s a traitor
It’s not hyperbole
Traitor, definition:
“In legal terms, a traitor is a person who commits treason, which is the crime of betraying one's country or sovereign through acts considered dangerous to national security. This typically involves levying war against the state, aiding its enemies, or attempting to overthrow the government”
I believe that by needlessly ceding the Chagos to Mauritius - a known and close ally of China, a near mortal enemy of the UK and the west - he is endangering the UK. Which is treachery in this definition. The fact he’s making us pay for it adds insult to injury but is not central to the facts
Others are free to disagree, and legally dispute this. It seems the Americans are not worried (but then again do we really trust them now? Trump?)
So no I’m not bandying the word about lightly. I honestly believe it. And if I honestly believe this is the case, what other word am I meant to use?! He’s being “naughty”?
FFS take a chill pill. You're an adult and this childish guff neither advances the argument nor provides any critique worth a tuppenny damn. We get it, you don't like SKS, but this isn't cogent analysis, it's the tantrum of a toddler.
Interesting to see almost all Labour and Green voters voting LD in Carshalton, almost as if they were afraid of one of either Con or RefUK winning the seat, although that was very unlikely.
Excellent to see three solid LD holds - holding seats, once gained, hasn't always been the strongest LD trait.
Carshalton South in particular was an excellent result as I know from local sources the Conservatives put effort into a seat where they hold the other two Councillors.
The result augurs well (though with the usual caveats) for the London local elections next year and on those numbers we'd see a 1994-style wipeout of the Conservatives in Sutton.
Credit where it's due though - good Reform result in what wouldn't be their most obvious part of the Borough and it'll be interesting to see where Reform put in the effort next year - you'd think places like Bexley and Havering would be better prospects.
I gave up with PB because it felt like the most boring posters had eaten a lorry load of Daily Mails and excreted them onto the site. I've just come back to take a look and it's now even worse. Poor Eagle! He's done a wonderful job since Mike's retirement. Witty and inspired. I guess there's nothing you can do. If posters want to post you you just have to let them do their thing
Aye, the Chagos 'deal' is dumb as hell by the sounds of it. If you're an idealist, then it screws the Islanders. If you're a pragmatist, it screws us.
Let's give away sovereign territory and pay billions for the privilege. Let's give it to someone with no historic claim *except* it was administratively convenient to bracket it with the Islands during the Empire. And let that someone be in China's pocket.
OMG, so many deluded by Starmer derangement syndrome this evening.
The absolute obsession with turning every minor deal into the betrayal of the UK is getting a bit tedious.
Between that and our deeply uninspiring government, it's going to be a long four yrlears.
It's quite amusing that idiots like Leon who cheered Boris Johnson's deals which put down a border in the Irish Sea accuse others of treason.
They can literally get in the fucking sea.
I ceased being offended by Leon some time ago.
As the great man said, "mostly harmless".
Leon might be harmless but all of this language about treason and betrayal which is whipped up on social media isn't. I work in a job which acts as a connection between the public and government. Some of the opinions expressed are shocking and something that I've never seen before. There are many people who genuinely think that Starmer ought to be executed under the Treason Act. Hyperbole about treason might seem funny on here but I fear it's real world consequences.
Are you not being a bit hyperbolic yourself? Do these people really believe that? Or are they saying it for effect (a la Leon)?
No I don't think they are. If you're utterly convinced that the Prime Minister is a traitor then it's not a hyperbolic position. Also not wishing to be patronising but Leon reads widely whereas a lot of people only get their news from right wing social media outlets so don't have an alternative viewpoint to adopt.
Also, I honestly think he’s a traitor
It’s not hyperbole
Traitor, definition:
“In legal terms, a traitor is a person who commits treason, which is the crime of betraying one's country or sovereign through acts considered dangerous to national security. This typically involves levying war against the state, aiding its enemies, or attempting to overthrow the government”
I believe that by needlessly ceding the Chagos to Mauritius - a known and close ally of China, a near mortal enemy of the UK and the west - he is endangering the UK. Which is treachery in this definition. The fact he’s making us pay for it adds insult to injury but is not central to the facts
Others are free to disagree, and legally dispute this. It seems the Americans are not worried (but then again do we really trust them now? Trump?)
So no I’m not bandying the word about lightly. I honestly believe it. And if I honestly believe this is the case, what other word am I meant to use?! He’s being “naughty”?
FFS take a chill pill. You're an adult and this childish guff neither advances the argument nor provides any critique worth a tuppenny damn. We get it, you don't like SKS, but this isn't cogent analysis, it's the tantrum of a toddler.
But see Morris's take above. I haven't yet seen any argument of why this is a good deal - just a vague "chill, it doesn't matter". I'd love to be convinced the government is acting in the interests of the country - or even just incompetently and purposelessly. But AFAICS it is acting deliberately against British interests. It's not even as if we're getting *something* but disagree about the value of that sonething. We're losing territory and paying money for the privilege. Did we lose a war? A simple "chill" isn't enough of an explanation.
This report by the Justice Committee is utterly damning. Law and order is the most basic function of the state and it is failing. If the state can't or won't get this right, little chance of it getting anything else right.
I gave up with PB because it felt like the most boring posters had eaten a lorry load of Daily Mails and excreted them onto the site. I've just come back to take a look and it's now even worse. Poor Eagle! He's done a wonderful job since Mike's retirement. Witty and inspired. I guess there's nothing you can do. If posters want to post you you just have to let them do their thing
Just had a quick scroll-and-tally. Roughly an equal balance of left and right on the site - much like the population at large. (No Scot Nats up yet, but give them time.) If the site has a gap, it is of Reform voices - because we are probably disproportionately middle class. The balance of the site may not reflect the balance of views in the circles you (or I) move in, but it's not too far from the population at large.
Personally, I would not trust the Telegraph's figures on this. But it's an indication of how badly the government has handled the PR on this deal, and indicative of how badly they handle the PR of so many things that are going on.
Their accounting is obviously dishonest. You don't report cash figures 100 years into the future unadjusted for inflation.
No, but you'd have to apply this to every long-term capital project as well to overall debt. It's often been argued by those in favour of borrowing for example we shouldn't worry about the debt because inflation will "deal with it".
The overall number is large but in the scheme of 99 years of Government expenditure not much at all.
Successive British Governments have sought ways to comply with a UN/ICJ judgement transferring sovereignty of Chagos to Mauritius. The actual transfer has occurred on Starmer's watch - clearly, some would prefer we carried on ignoring an international judicial decision and whether you want to argue, as some have, other events have weakened our overall profile at the UN, the fact is as a country which purports to respect international law, we can't cry foul when there's a judgement against us.
As for Tice's theatrics, predictable but unnecessary. If you want to abrogate the agreement, just stop paying the money - simple. The Mauritians will claim the treaty is broken and I suppose you could argue what are they going to do about it? The US don't care.
As for the Chagossians, they are the losers in this. We treated them badly in the 60s and 70s forcing them from their country. Their wishes, as far as I can tell, are to remain British. There are analogies with the Falklanders and with Hong Kong - I suppose if the ICJ ruled Argentina should have sovereignty, we'd resist. As for Hong Kong, we signed a 99 year lease with the then Chinese Government. That ended in 1997 and while we could, I suppose, have tried to hold on to those parts which were outside the lease, that was never going to be viable.
Aye, the Chagos 'deal' is dumb as hell by the sounds of it. If you're an idealist, then it screws the Islanders. If you're a pragmatist, it screws us.
Let's give away sovereign territory and pay billions for the privilege. Let's give it to someone with no historic claim *except* it was administratively convenient to bracket it with the Islands during the Empire. And let that someone be in China's pocket.
OMG, so many deluded by Starmer derangement syndrome this evening.
The absolute obsession with turning every minor deal into the betrayal of the UK is getting a bit tedious.
Between that and our deeply uninspiring government, it's going to be a long four yrlears.
It's quite amusing that idiots like Leon who cheered Boris Johnson's deals which put down a border in the Irish Sea accuse others of treason.
They can literally get in the fucking sea.
I ceased being offended by Leon some time ago.
As the great man said, "mostly harmless".
Leon might be harmless but all of this language about treason and betrayal which is whipped up on social media isn't. I work in a job which acts as a connection between the public and government. Some of the opinions expressed are shocking and something that I've never seen before. There are many people who genuinely think that Starmer ought to be executed under the Treason Act. Hyperbole about treason might seem funny on here but I fear it's real world consequences.
Are you not being a bit hyperbolic yourself? Do these people really believe that? Or are they saying it for effect (a la Leon)?
No I don't think they are. If you're utterly convinced that the Prime Minister is a traitor then it's not a hyperbolic position. Also not wishing to be patronising but Leon reads widely whereas a lot of people only get their news from right wing social media outlets so don't have an alternative viewpoint to adopt.
Also, I honestly think he’s a traitor
It’s not hyperbole
Traitor, definition:
“In legal terms, a traitor is a person who commits treason, which is the crime of betraying one's country or sovereign through acts considered dangerous to national security. This typically involves levying war against the state, aiding its enemies, or attempting to overthrow the government”
I believe that by needlessly ceding the Chagos to Mauritius - a known and close ally of China, a near mortal enemy of the UK and the west - he is endangering the UK. Which is treachery in this definition. The fact he’s making us pay for it adds insult to injury but is not central to the facts
Others are free to disagree, and legally dispute this. It seems the Americans are not worried (but then again do we really trust them now? Trump?)
So no I’m not bandying the word about lightly. I honestly believe it. And if I honestly believe this is the case, what other word am I meant to use?! He’s being “naughty”?
FFS take a chill pill. You're an adult and this childish guff neither advances the argument nor provides any critique worth a tuppenny damn. We get it, you don't like SKS, but this isn't cogent analysis, it's the tantrum of a toddler.
But see Morris's take above. I haven't yet seen any argument of why this is a good deal - just a vague "chill, it doesn't matter". I'd love to be convinced the government is acting in the interests of the country - or even just incompetently and purposelessly. But AFAICS it is acting deliberately against British interests. It's not even as if we're getting *something* but disagree about the value of that sonething. We're losing territory and paying money for the privilege. Did we lose a war? A simple "chill" isn't enough of an explanation.
It's best seen as part of a wider world view, part of deals with US servicing of our submarines and missiles and on trade policy with the USA, rather than a single deal in isolation. That's why the previous government commenced these negotiations.
Some (including me) would rather walk away from the BIOT, scrap Trident and rejoin the EU rather than cosy up to Trump, but we are in a minority.
I gave up with PB because it felt like the most boring posters had eaten a lorry load of Daily Mails and excreted them onto the site. I've just come back to take a look and it's now even worse. Poor Eagle! He's done a wonderful job since Mike's retirement. Witty and inspired. I guess there's nothing you can do. If posters want to post you you just have to let them do their thing
You and I have been here long enough to know what's happening - to paraphrase Sir Humphrey Appleby, the only thing worse than posts opposing the Government are posts supporting the Government.
Government ain't easy and the harder it gets the more people think they could do better.
Add to that the odd provocateur and you get a small clique of daily posters whose almost every post is a complaint or moan or rant about some aspect of Government policy or decision making.
Fair enough - the coming of Reform has changed the dynamic. We now have a small but vocal cohort of pro-Reform posters (while the Conservative contingent has declined and quietened) so you could argue the site is a decent reflection of political reality.
I gave up with PB because it felt like the most boring posters had eaten a lorry load of Daily Mails and excreted them onto the site. I've just come back to take a look and it's now even worse. Poor Eagle! He's done a wonderful job since Mike's retirement. Witty and inspired. I guess there's nothing you can do. If posters want to post you you just have to let them do their thing
You and I have been here long enough to know what's happening - to paraphrase Sir Humphrey Appleby, the only thing worse than posts opposing the Government are posts supporting the Government.
Government ain't easy and the harder it gets the more people think they could do better.
Add to that the odd provocateur and you get a small clique of daily posters whose almost every post is a complaint or moan or rant about some aspect of Government policy or decision making.
Fair enough - the coming of Reform has changed the dynamic. We now have a small but vocal cohort of pro-Reform posters (while the Conservative contingent has declined and quietened) so you could argue the site is a decent reflection of political reality.
It's the endless spamming of rants into PB that is so tiresome. Making any point once or twice in a debate is fine; making the same point over and over, such that as we try to read down the page we come across essentially the same hysteria, repeated and repeated and repeated, is not.
Comments
Trump Administration Says It Is Halting Harvard’s Ability to Enroll International Students
“I have largely stayed quiet on my own views of the Chagos debacle because quite frankly it sits somewhere between the most astounding political naivety in my lifetime, apologist appeasement drenched in a self-loathing of our nation and it's history - and treason.
But the below two clips perfectly encapsulates how *once again* as Parliament goes into recces the details become apparent to all.
It was indeed drenched in national self-loathing and appeasement… and now it is evidently clear actually endangers national security far worse than any ICJ advisory text would ever be.
The absolute scandal that this has now become shames the entire government & civil service desperate to peddle this in secrecy, through two lots of Parliamentary recces, all the while treating both the British public & worse still Chagossians as fools”
https://x.com/robertclark87/status/1925603502019293653?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
I’m sorry, but it really really really IS that bad, and it’s the PB centrist dads saying that it’s “nothing really” who look insane
Anyone normal can see it is a crazy mistake and egregious self harm, at best
Note that this guy uses the word “treason”
Kristi Noem has gone even further off the wall than she was already:
Kristi Noem, the secretary of homeland security, also accused the university in Cambridge, Massachusetts, of "coordinating with the Chinese Communist Party on its campus", but did not provide evidence for the claim.
https://news.sky.com/story/trump-administration-bars-harvard-from-enrolling-international-students-13372921
Rory-the-Former-Tory may have things to say, as he is currently a Professor there.
“John Healey, defending the Chagos deal, says: “international legal proceedings could have rendered the base inoperable". Frankly this government completely failed to make this case in a detailed & convincing way—and it remains unconvincing. Many people across gov’t disagree”
https://x.com/shashj/status/1925567014661193829?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
It would be pretty obvious as he stuttered and gobbled like a landed trout what was up.
Or he might agree to sign and set peoples' minds at rest.
It’s another catastrophe for Labour
How will they cope?
Even the Guardian is now admitting this deal is really unpopular with some in the Labour party - giving £100m to Mauritius every year - imagine what that could do to some impoverished British city?
I couldn't give a fuck, and have zero interest.
But no doubt they get EDI bonus points at BBC HQ for peddling this shit.
Rapid cycling of doom pr0n on a boring Thursday
Labour 4th with about 5% this time
Result very very similar to 2013 with LD Con UKIP Lab all on similar shares..........
On the night LD held up well, Reform made some progress but not breaking through 3rd, Labour garbage everywhere, Cons holding second but losing vote share but to 'roughly' what 2024 would have suggested, Reform exceeding 2024s suggestion but not by a huge distance, LD retaining vote, Lab nowhere near July.
The only people who could legitimately have a claim to compensation of some kind are those who had property rights on the island, and this definitely does not include the Mauritian government.
I also see there is a clause in the lease that says we have to tell Mauritius of any miliary action to be carried out from the base.
WTF?
Horsham LD hold
Carshalton and Wallington LD hold
Eastleigh i'd take Con gain at evens
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/05/22/starmer-chagos-deal-can-go-ahead-high-court/
He's a shitposter.
Calgie@christiancalgie
12h
Complete mess of a briefing in No10 just now in which we experienced the government machine at its evasive non-answering best.
Refusal to acknowledge the cash cost of Chagos is billions more than they’re spinning, though no denial.
‼️BUT confirmation the spend IS going to be counted towards our total defence spend - a compete massaging of the figures.
https://x.com/christiancalgie/status/1925579981242929390
Aye, the Chagos 'deal' is dumb as hell by the sounds of it. If you're an idealist, then it screws the Islanders. If you're a pragmatist, it screws us.
Let's give away sovereign territory and pay billions for the privilege. Let's give it to someone with no historic claim *except* it was administratively convenient to bracket it with the Islands during the Empire. And let that someone be in China's pocket.
Carshalton South in particular was an excellent result as I know from local sources the Conservatives put effort into a seat where they hold the other two Councillors.
The result augurs well (though with the usual caveats) for the London local elections next year and on those numbers we'd see a 1994-style wipeout of the Conservatives in Sutton.
Credit where it's due though - good Reform result in what wouldn't be their most obvious part of the Borough and it'll be interesting to see where Reform put in the effort next year - you'd think places like Bexley and Havering would be better prospects.
OTTOMH, I can only think of one band whose best work was post-hiatus: The Wedding Present, with Take Fountain. Though it went downhill after that.
This report by the Justice Committee is utterly damning. Law and order is the most basic function of the state and it is failing. If the state can't or won't get this right, little chance of it getting anything else right.
https://x.com/commonsjustice/status/1925793948917809228?s=61&t=wWWeJB3W_ksMJK4LA1OvkA
Or you can read this damning analysis here - https://rozenberg.substack.com/p/ccrc-chief-must-go.
The balance of the site may not reflect the balance of views in the circles you (or I) move in, but it's not too far from the population at large.
The overall number is large but in the scheme of 99 years of Government expenditure not much at all.
Successive British Governments have sought ways to comply with a UN/ICJ judgement transferring sovereignty of Chagos to Mauritius. The actual transfer has occurred on Starmer's watch - clearly, some would prefer we carried on ignoring an international judicial decision and whether you want to argue, as some have, other events have weakened our overall profile at the UN, the fact is as a country which purports to respect international law, we can't cry foul when there's a judgement against us.
As for Tice's theatrics, predictable but unnecessary. If you want to abrogate the agreement, just stop paying the money - simple. The Mauritians will claim the treaty is broken and I suppose you could argue what are they going to do about it? The US don't care.
As for the Chagossians, they are the losers in this. We treated them badly in the 60s and 70s forcing them from their country. Their wishes, as far as I can tell, are to remain British. There are analogies with the Falklanders and with Hong Kong - I suppose if the ICJ ruled Argentina should have sovereignty, we'd resist. As for Hong Kong, we signed a 99 year lease with the then Chinese Government. That ended in 1997 and while we could, I suppose, have tried to hold on to those parts which were outside the lease, that was never going to be viable.
NEW THREAD
Some (including me) would rather walk away from the BIOT, scrap Trident and rejoin the EU rather than cosy up to Trump, but we are in a minority.
Stefan Koopman (Rabobank): “[US now has] wartime borrowing in a peacetime economy with low unemployment."
In Telegraph
Government ain't easy and the harder it gets the more people think they could do better.
Add to that the odd provocateur and you get a small clique of daily posters whose almost every post is a complaint or moan or rant about some aspect of Government policy or decision making.
Fair enough - the coming of Reform has changed the dynamic. We now have a small but vocal cohort of pro-Reform posters (while the Conservative contingent has declined and quietened) so you could argue the site is a decent reflection of political reality.