Badger versus baboon: The sequel – politicalbetting.com
Who would win in a fight: 100 unarmed men or a silverback gorilla – we polled last week's viral Twitter debate100 unarmed men: 35%Silverback gorilla: 43%yougov.co.uk/topics/socie…
All it takes is one intelligent man, to discern what the conflict is, and to resolve it. Gorillas are by nature gentle vegetarians and only violent if threatened.
Otherwise we are dealing with 101 apes, one much more powerful.
Thank God for a new thread. Otherwise I would have been forced to read all 9,000 words of @kinabalu's attempt at *screenwriting humour*, which would have resulted in the Cringe Death of the Universe
The state of Farage in that photo... Jeez, are public really going to vote for THAT as their PM? Have my doubts. I think we are in an extended version of the EU elections at the time of PM May. Express your middle-finger views when it doesn't matter; think long and hard about being our PM for 5 years.
The state of Farage in that photo... Jeez, are public really going to vote for THAT as their PM? Have my doubts. I think we are in an extended version of the EU elections at the time of PM May. Express your middle-finger views when it doesn't matter; think long and hard about being our PM for 5 years.
Maybe the period around the time of the EU elections in 2019 was actually the new normal, and the cycle that began with Boris Johnson and ended up with Starmer was just an interlude.
The state of Farage in that photo... Jeez, are public really going to vote for THAT as their PM? Have my doubts. I think we are in an extended version of the EU elections at the time of PM May. Express your middle-finger views when it doesn't matter; think long and hard about being our PM for 5 years.
They always choose the most ridiculous photo of Farage they can find.
The men win … if they’re prepared to take casualties.
On a similar note, I read quite a gripping account of just what deadly hunters a group of early men, aided by dogs for tracking, would have been.
Many animals can outrun humans, but few can outwalk them. So, they just had to pursue their prey, relentlessly, until the poor creature dropped with exhaustion.
It was like being hunted by a group of terminators.
The state of Farage in that photo... Jeez, are public really going to vote for THAT as their PM? Have my doubts. I think we are in an extended version of the EU elections at the time of PM May. Express your middle-finger views when it doesn't matter; think long and hard about being our PM for 5 years.
You wouldn’t catch me using an unflattering photo of Farage in a header.
Fairly clear pattern now in all polls since locals. Reform leading. Labour down a bit, and the Conservatives heading below 20. Only disagreement is size of Reform's lead - somewhere between 4 and 13.
The state of Farage in that photo... Jeez, are public really going to vote for THAT as their PM? Have my doubts. I think we are in an extended version of the EU elections at the time of PM May. Express your middle-finger views when it doesn't matter; think long and hard about being our PM for 5 years.
They always choose the most ridiculous photo of Farage they can find.
The only comparator for this is the short but amazing rise of the SDP in the early 80s, right?
Then Thatch got saved by Galtieri and they fell away. IIRC. It was a looooooong time ago
Maybe Starmer can persuade Putin to invade Gibraltar, badly
The SDP/Alliance polled 50% but the Tories were leading in some polls before the invasion of The Malvinas.
Was it as high as 50%??! That's even more spectacular than I remember
However there are major differences between Reform and the SDP, and the most important is the one that tells me this might be a new permanent change, not a fleeting weirdness like the Alliance: Reform are just part of a wider vibeshift to the populist right across the West - from Le Pen to Meloni, from Trump to the AfD to the Danish social democrats adopting hard right migration policies, and many other examples: some hopeful some depressing
This is a secular change in mood across the western world, not a uniquely British blip
Sorry, I don’t have the energy this afternoon to write a proper PB thread.
Please enjoy this thread.
I like off the wall threads. I really enjoyed Robert's parallel universe Callaghan win in 1978. But it's OK our alternative thread header writer has already brought it back to politics, which is fair enough. At least it beats photos of his breakfast.
Sorry, I don’t have the energy this afternoon to write a proper PB thread.
Please enjoy this thread.
I like off the wall threads. I really enjoyed Robert's parallel universe Callaghan win in 1978. But it's OK our alternative thread header writer has already brought it back to politics, which is fair enough. At least it beats photos of his breakfast.
In important food news, you can already get delicious strawberries.
So it turns out Find Out Now aren't dodgy, they are more like Find Out First
I’d say look how Sinn Fein built up a huge lead in mid-term, before Fine Gael, and Fianna Fáil recovered.
But, I’d also say, if Reform obliterate the Conservatives in the local elections of 2026/2027, and FPTP is brutal, most centre right voters will write off the Conservatives.
PR means an Irish party can survive getting 10-20%, whereas the Conservatives cannot.
Has President Trump f*cked the World Cup next year, that the USA, Canada and Mexico are co-hosting?
Either:
1 - People too scared to visit for the several reasons we know about, and don't. 2 - Insufficient air transport capacity across the country for fans needing to get to cities they don't know about in advance, as it's determined by match results. There aren't exactly a lot of alternatives. 3 - Some services having been gutted by Trump's destruction of the administrative State. 4 - Border restrictions USA vs Mexico and Canada? 5 - Given Trump & Co's incompetence, will be it like the 1936 Olympics run by the Marx Brothers?
BMG's Rob Struthers says: "Some polls make you do a double-take. This is one of them."
We are witnessing something pretty extraordinary here. This is potentially a quiet revolution. A Very British Tipping Point
4 years is a long time to sustain this. Unless the government implodes despite a 170 maj.
Yes, it feels a bit like a football team peaking in form around late October. It's too early
But who knows. Leicester won the Prem. These things happen, and this is happening around the world
And if I had to choose a single British politician with the least wit and imagination: ergo no ideas, no rizz, no vim, and therefore no chance of turning around a dire situation, that politician would be Sir Keir Starmer, KC
The only comparator for this is the short but amazing rise of the SDP in the early 80s, right?
Then Thatch got saved by Galtieri and they fell away. IIRC. It was a looooooong time ago
Maybe Starmer can persuade Putin to invade Gibraltar, badly
The SDP/Alliance polled 50% but the Tories were leading in some polls before the invasion of The Malvinas.
Was it as high as 50%??! That's even more spectacular than I remember
However there are major differences between Reform and the SDP, and the most important is the one that tells me this might be a new permanent change, not a fleeting weirdness like the Alliance: Reform are just part of a wider vibeshift to the populist right across the West - from Le Pen to Meloni, from Trump to the AfD to the Danish social democrats adopting hard right migration policies, and many other examples: some hopeful some depressing
This is a secular change in mood across the western world, not a uniquely British blip
Yes, in December 1981 Mori had the following
Con 23%
Labour 23.5%
Alliance 50.5%
A fortnight before the invasion in March 1982 Mori had it as
Sorry, I don’t have the energy this afternoon to write a proper PB thread.
Please enjoy this thread.
I like off the wall threads. I really enjoyed Robert's parallel universe Callaghan win in 1978. But it's OK our alternative thread header writer has already brought it back to politics, which is fair enough. At least it beats photos of his breakfast.
In important food news, you can already get delicious strawberries.
The only comparator for this is the short but amazing rise of the SDP in the early 80s, right?
Then Thatch got saved by Galtieri and they fell away. IIRC. It was a looooooong time ago
Maybe Starmer can persuade Putin to invade Gibraltar, badly
The SDP/Alliance polled 50% but the Tories were leading in some polls before the invasion of The Malvinas.
Was it as high as 50%??! That's even more spectacular than I remember
However there are major differences between Reform and the SDP, and the most important is the one that tells me this might be a new permanent change, not a fleeting weirdness like the Alliance: Reform are just part of a wider vibeshift to the populist right across the West - from Le Pen to Meloni, from Trump to the AfD to the Danish social democrats adopting hard right migration policies, and many other examples: some hopeful some depressing
This is a secular change in mood across the western world, not a uniquely British blip
The Conservatives and Labour simply had a level of bedrock support back then, which does not exist today.
So it turns out Find Out Now aren't dodgy, they are more like Find Out First
Pay attention to the ones they do/don’t caveat as they’ve added this caveat.
This poll was initiated solely by Find Out Now and not funded by any third party
Sorry, I am confused! Genuinely. Isn't this poll BMG?
After the election last week shy Reformers seem to have decided fash is fine.
Perhaps they have been replaced by shy Tories and Labourites.
"Fash"
Grow up. Do you honestly believe Reform under Nigel Farage are "fascist", or anything even close to it? Because they're not. Not at all. The comparison is juvenile and wanky and makes you sound like a 13 year old
If a proper actual Fascist party approaches power in the UK you will bloody well notice it, but you will have no words to describe the exceptional nature of this evolution, because you used them all up on Reform
So it turns out Find Out Now aren't dodgy, they are more like Find Out First
I’d say look how Sinn Fein built up a huge lead in mid-term, before Fine Gael, and Fianna Fáil recovered.
But, I’d also say, if Reform obliterate the Conservatives in the local elections of 2026/2027, and FPTP is brutal, most centre right voters will write off the Conservatives.
PR means an Irish party can survive getting 10-20%, whereas the Conservatives cannot.
Four years is along time in politics.
History has taught us that four years is plenty of time for Farage to implode his current (at a specific moment in time) political vehicle. In fact there is a reasonable chance he becomes PM with his next, or next after that political party.
So it turns out Find Out Now aren't dodgy, they are more like Find Out First
Pay attention to the ones they do/don’t caveat as they’ve added this caveat.
This poll was initiated solely by Find Out Now and not funded by any third party
Sorry, I am confused! Genuinely. Isn't this poll BMG?
After the election last week shy Reformers seem to have decided fash is fine.
Perhaps they have been replaced by shy Tories and Labourites.
"Fash"
Grow up. Do you honestly believe Reform under Nigel Farage are "fascist", or anything even close to it? Because they're not. Not at all. The comparison is juvenile and wanky and makes you sound like a 13 year old
If a proper actual Fascist party approaches power in the UK you will bloody well notice it, but you will have no words to describe the exceptional nature of this evolution, because you used them all up on Reform
So it turns out Find Out Now aren't dodgy, they are more like Find Out First
I’d say look how Sinn Fein built up a huge lead in mid-term, before Fine Gael, and Fianna Fáil recovered.
But, I’d also say, if Reform obliterate the Conservatives in the local elections of 2026/2027, and FPTP is brutal, most centre right voters will write off the Conservatives.
PR means an Irish party can survive getting 10-20%, whereas the Conservatives cannot.
This is definitely an existential threat to the Tories, especially - as you say - under FPTP
If Reform become the default rightwing party, then that's it. The Tories are doomed. They are already down to 120 odd MPs and they could go under 50 next time, whence there is probably no recovery
A few more polls with Reform over 30 and the Tories under 20 could do it. That will be the new normal. Everyone will accept it. Then the Tories die
Farage is head and shoulders above everyone else as a political talent and there's a sense of inevitability about his march to Downing Street now.
It's not like the SPD period when Britain faced serious problems, but the person with the solutions was already in power. Starmer is no Thatcher and instead embodies everything that's gone wrong.
Even the rat could be tricky if cornered. They have sharp teeth and claws and if it went for your jugular, which it would, you could be in trouble. Personally I wouldn't fancy my chances against any of these animals. The 2% who think they could have a grizzly bear or an elephant are deluding themselves. As for the 10% who think they could beat a Chimpanzee... what are they smoking? The chimp would literally tear them limb from limb.
The only comparator for this is the short but amazing rise of the SDP in the early 80s, right?
Then Thatch got saved by Galtieri and they fell away. IIRC. It was a looooooong time ago
Maybe Starmer can persuade Putin to invade Gibraltar, badly
In December 1981 the Alliance were polling over 50%. The next election was only 18 months away. Looking good. But they couldn't keep it up. They didn't flop, but it didn't happen for them. For a variety of reasons, not just the Falklands.
Here, by contrast, we have Reform on about 30% and the next election is a long long 4 years away. By all means get excited (like David Steel did) but I wouldn't succumb to hubris if I were you. I only say this because that's what I sense you risk doing - succumbing to hubris.
So it turns out Find Out Now aren't dodgy, they are more like Find Out First
Pay attention to the ones they do/don’t caveat as they’ve added this caveat.
This poll was initiated solely by Find Out Now and not funded by any third party
Sorry, I am confused! Genuinely. Isn't this poll BMG?
After the election last week shy Reformers seem to have decided fash is fine.
Perhaps they have been replaced by shy Tories and Labourites.
"Fash"
Grow up. Do you honestly believe Reform under Nigel Farage are "fascist", or anything even close to it? Because they're not. Not at all. The comparison is juvenile and wanky and makes you sound like a 13 year old
If a proper actual Fascist party approaches power in the UK you will bloody well notice it, but you will have no words to describe the exceptional nature of this evolution, because you used them all up on Reform
As if calling someone a fascist on here would wound it’s target rather than prompt an eye roll at the pure wallyness of the name caller
If 97 of the unarmed men die, and the 98th kills the silverback gorilla, then did the men "win"?
Capt. Miller: You see, when... when you end up killing one of your men, you see, you tell yourself it happened so you could save the lives of two or three or ten others. Maybe a hundred others. Do you know how many men I've lost under my command? Sgt. Horvath: How many? Capt. Miller: Ninety-four. But that means I've saved the lives of ten times that many, doesn't it? Maybe even twenty, right? Twenty times as many? And that's how simple it is. That's how you... that's how you rationalize on making the choice between the mission and the man.
Comments
Please enjoy this thread.
So one in fifty think they could take down a lion? Wow. There's some tough nuts out there.
Just.
However:
https://www.natureworldnews.com/articles/50349/20220416/human-vs-beast-man-allegedly-kills-lion-bare-hands-uganda.htm#:~:text=A man successfully killed a,a brutal fight in Uganda.
Otherwise we are dealing with 101 apes, one much more powerful.
https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/reform-record-10-point-lead-over-labour-farage-3685725
@BMGResearch survey for @theipaper shows:
Reform 32%
Labour 22%
Tories 19%
Lib Dems 13%
Greens 9%
Those 34% have met Harry.
Maybe they are thinking of the way that 100 men in grey suits brought down Boris the Silverback gorilla.
@BMGResearch
survey for
@theipaper
shows:
Reform 32%
Labour 22%
Tories 19%
Lib Dems 13%
Greens 9%
BMG's Rob Struthers says: "Some polls make you do a double-take. This is one of them."
We are witnessing something pretty extraordinary here. This is potentially a quiet revolution. A Very British Tipping Point
"Wild? I was furious!"
(For fans of Not the Nine O'Clock News)
I'd expect many to be badly hurt.
But they'd easily take one gorilla.
Labour: 116 (chortle)
Libs: 53
Greens: 3
Tories: 27 (CHORTLE)
Reform: 387
Reform government with a large majority, say hello to Prime Minister Nigel Farage, PBUH
Quiet wouldn't be one.
"Wild? I was LIVID!"
This poll was initiated solely by Find Out Now and not funded by any third party
Then Thatch got saved by Galtieri and they fell away. IIRC. It was a looooooong time ago
Maybe Starmer can persuade Putin to invade Gibraltar, badly
Reform +9
Labour -4
Cons - 5
Libs - 1
Would require team work though. Or maybe just 100 piling on would crush him?
On a similar note, I read quite a gripping account of just what deadly hunters a group of early men, aided by dogs for tracking, would have been.
Many animals can outrun humans, but few can outwalk them. So, they just had to pursue their prey, relentlessly, until the poor creature dropped with exhaustion.
It was like being hunted by a group of terminators.
https://www.unibocconi.it/en/news/network-conclave
..Top 5 by Status
Robert Prevost (moderate, US)
Lazzaro You Heung-sik (soft liberal, South Korea)
Arthur Roche (liberal, UK)
Jean-Marc Aveline (soft liberal, France)
Claudio Gugerotti (soft liberal, Italy)
Top 5 for Information Control
Anders Arborelius (soft conservative, Sweden)
Pietro Parolin (liberal, Italy)
Víctor Fernández (liberal, Argentina)
Gérald Lacroix (moderate, Canada)
Joseph Tobin (liberal, USA)
Top 5 for Coalition Building Capacity
Luis Antonio Tagle (soft liberal, Philippines)
Ángel Fernández Artime (soft liberal, Spain)
Gérald Lacroix (moderate, Canada)
Fridolin Besungu (soft conservative, Congo)
Sérgio da Rocha (soft liberal, Brazil)..
Luke Tryl
@luketryl.bsky.social
· 6m
Fairly clear pattern now in all polls since locals. Reform leading. Labour down a bit, and the Conservatives heading below 20. Only disagreement is size of Reform's lead - somewhere between 4 and 13.
"Alfred Warschauer
@Curnonsky_
They are always from pollsters you have never heard of"
https://x.com/Curnonsky_/status/1920796051495059813
However there are major differences between Reform and the SDP, and the most important is the one that tells me this might be a new permanent change, not a fleeting weirdness like the Alliance: Reform are just part of a wider vibeshift to the populist right across the West - from Le Pen to Meloni, from Trump to the AfD to the Danish social democrats adopting hard right migration policies, and many other examples: some hopeful some depressing
This is a secular change in mood across the western world, not a uniquely British blip
Perhaps they have been replaced by shy Tories and Labourites.
But, I’d also say, if Reform obliterate the Conservatives in the local elections of 2026/2027, and FPTP is brutal, most centre right voters will write off the Conservatives.
PR means an Irish party can survive getting 10-20%, whereas the Conservatives cannot.
Has President Trump f*cked the World Cup next year, that the USA, Canada and Mexico are co-hosting?
Either:
1 - People too scared to visit for the several reasons we know about, and don't.
2 - Insufficient air transport capacity across the country for fans needing to get to cities they don't know about in advance, as it's determined by match results. There aren't exactly a lot of alternatives.
3 - Some services having been gutted by Trump's destruction of the administrative State.
4 - Border restrictions USA vs Mexico and Canada?
5 - Given Trump & Co's incompetence, will be it like the 1936 Olympics run by the Marx Brothers?
If yes, why? If not, why not?
But who knows. Leicester won the Prem. These things happen, and this is happening around the world
And if I had to choose a single British politician with the least wit and imagination: ergo no ideas, no rizz, no vim, and therefore no chance of turning around a dire situation, that politician would be Sir Keir Starmer, KC
Con 23%
Labour 23.5%
Alliance 50.5%
A fortnight before the invasion in March 1982 Mori had it as
Con 31.5%
Lab 33%
Alliance 33%
Gallup days before the invasion had it as
Con 35%
Lab 30%
Alliance 33%
Grow up. Do you honestly believe Reform under Nigel Farage are "fascist", or anything even close to it? Because they're not. Not at all. The comparison is juvenile and wanky and makes you sound like a 13 year old
If a proper actual Fascist party approaches power in the UK you will bloody well notice it, but you will have no words to describe the exceptional nature of this evolution, because you used them all up on Reform
You grab it just behind the head, because they are not exactly agile.
Anybody growing up on a farm knows you stamp on a rat.
Cats - maybe.
I've seen reports of choke holds on dogs, but I couldn't do it.
History has taught us that four years is plenty of time for Farage to implode his current (at a specific moment in time) political vehicle. In fact there is a reasonable chance he becomes PM with his next, or next after that political party.
If Reform become the default rightwing party, then that's it. The Tories are doomed. They are already down to 120 odd MPs and they could go under 50 next time, whence there is probably no recovery
A few more polls with Reform over 30 and the Tories under 20 could do it. That will be the new normal. Everyone will accept it. Then the Tories die
It's not like the SPD period when Britain faced serious problems, but the person with the solutions was already in power. Starmer is no Thatcher and instead embodies everything that's gone wrong.
However, in South Asia, it seems to be the cricket.
Here, by contrast, we have Reform on about 30% and the next election is a long long 4 years away. By all means get excited (like David Steel did) but I wouldn't succumb to hubris if I were you. I only say this because that's what I sense you risk doing - succumbing to hubris.
If 97 of the unarmed men die, and the 98th kills the silverback gorilla, then did the men "win"?
Are you sure you’re British?
https://x.com/tonylapidus/status/1920551672218059176?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q
Sgt. Horvath: How many?
Capt. Miller: Ninety-four. But that means I've saved the lives of ten times that many, doesn't it? Maybe even twenty, right? Twenty times as many? And that's how simple it is. That's how you... that's how you rationalize on making the choice between the mission and the man.
I could take a baboon some kind of snack. If you give them food, they won't bother you.