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Your regular reminder that betting markets are often laughably wrong – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,458
edited 6:28AM in General
Your regular reminder that betting markets are often laughably wrong – politicalbetting.com

Although as I noted at the time when the next Pope markets went up this was a market to avoid as it was the epitome of an insiders’ market.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,356
    edited 6:32AM
    First!

    And another cloudless sunny day in the Highlands!
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 9,024
    Pope is one thing. Second on PB is another
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,710
    Should we have caught it, though?

    It looks like another Trump effect. I just didn't know enough about the candidates to pick it up, and was too busy laughing at Cardinals funny names.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,579
    Very much a lay the favourite market.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,710
    FPT @Luckyguy1983

    Net Zero is starting to now run into economic reality with electric cars and deindustrialisation in a way it wasn't in the 2010s.

    To go further, we will have to accept real economic damage being done now, with the hope that our global leadership on it galvanises a faster transition to Net Zero worldwide.

    Will we?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,855
    edited 6:35AM
    The French are such amateurs, not a single duck house in sight.

    French MPs suspended for putting drugs and dating app on expenses

    Andy Kerbrat allegedly spent €25,000 on drugs while Christine Engrand, who joined a dating site for the over-fifties, says her new assistant is ‘only a friend’


    https://www.thetimes.com/world/europe/article/french-mps-suspended-putting-drugs-dating-app-expenses-720klgm5n
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 14,033
    FPT…

    Fox News host to become US Attorney for the District of Columbia.

    Thank heavens Trump and the Republicans brought back meritocratic hiring.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,855
    Told you all, cash is pretty much only used by dodgy people to conduct crimes.

    Revealed: Oliver Oakes resigned days after brother arrested with ‘large amount of cash’

    Exclusive: William Oakes charged with ‘transferring criminal property’ and remanded in custody


    Oliver Oakes, who resigned abruptly as Alpine Formula One team principal this week, did so just days after his brother William, a fellow director at Hitech Grand Prix, was arrested.

    The Telegraph can reveal that William Oakes, 31, who is listed as a director of Hitech Grand Prix on Companies House, was arrested in the Silverstone Park area last Thursday, and charged with “transferring criminal property” last Friday. He was in possession of a large amount of cash, according to police. He has been remanded in custody.

    A spokesperson for the Metropolitan Police said: “William Oakes, 31, of Rugby was charged with transferring criminal property on Friday, May 2 after he was stopped in the Silverstone Park area in Northamptonshire on Thursday, May 1, 2025 in possession of a large amount of cash. He appeared before Northampton Magistrates’ Court on Saturday, May 3, and remanded in custody.”

    Oliver Oakes, who was at the Miami Grand Prix at the time, declined to comment when approached by The Telegraph. He handed in his resignation earlier this week. His whereabouts are currently unknown. He is understood to have flown to Dubai following Sunday’s Miami Grand Prix.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/formula-1/2025/05/08/oliver-oakes-alpine-resigned-days-police-raid-silverstone/
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,783
    Thinking about it, if the Catholic Church wanted somebody to take on Trump and his Pope-slaying side-kick Vance, who better than the guy from Chicago?

    "They pull a knife, you pull a gun. He sends one of yours to the hospital, you send one of his to the morgue. That's the Chicago way!"
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,783

    FPT…

    Fox News host to become US Attorney for the District of Columbia.

    Thank heavens Trump and the Republicans brought back meritocratic hiring.
    Because hiring from Fox has gone so well at Defense.
  • vikvik Posts: 333
    tlg86 said:

    Very much a lay the favourite market.

    It's totally unpredictable & the voting is done completely in secret. They could have gone with the favourite too.

    The only ones who knew were the Cardinals & presumably none of them were engaging in betting activity. And none of them were willing to speak publicly about their preferred choices.

    With markets like choice of VP or choice of Supreme Court Justice, you have things like the Presidential candidate making public comments, or leaks from insiders. None of that was present here.

    The entire market was just based on uninformed speculation by punters.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 27,030
    edited 6:48AM
    Good mooring everyone *. A beautiful day here.

    * Typo. Except on the Erewash Canal.

    FPT: This from @Taz interests me:
    Taz said:

    Roger said:

    Being a saddo, I've just read the Hansard transcripts following Alexander's statement on the US deal. Most of the Tories who spoke were broadly supportive of it, recognising that we hadn't made concessions on farming standards, digital taxes or online safety. I'm not at all convinced that Kemi's view that we've been "shafted" is shared by many of her colleagues, which could spell trouble for her.
    For what it's worth, Douglas Alexander's responses to questions were quite impressive.

    Next Foreign Sec.

    Reshuffle this summer, although Lammy may last until next reshuffle.
    Two Labour MPs have been impressive this week. Douglas Alexander and Louise Haigh. I'd be happy to see either replace the pusillanimous Foreign Sec.
    How has Haigh been impressive ?
    How has she been impressive, @Roger. I can see some good fairly gentle challenges to the leadership to get their backside in gear on things like Council Tax Reform and more progressive taxation, which are strategic things most of us here want addressed even if we disagree on exact answers

    And a bit on her long term campaigns. And having a go at R4 for not being able to pronounce "Haigh" properly (like the WW1 General I think, not horse fodder).

    What else do we have?
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,541
    I'm in Paris now. I watched the VE Day celebrations yesterday.

    I'm all for celebrating victory in Europe over vile Nazi scum.

    Laughable seeing the French pretend they had much to do with it though.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 27,030

    The French are such amateurs, not a single duck house in sight.

    French MPs suspended for putting drugs and dating app on expenses

    Andy Kerbrat allegedly spent €25,000 on drugs while Christine Engrand, who joined a dating site for the over-fifties, says her new assistant is ‘only a friend’


    https://www.thetimes.com/world/europe/article/french-mps-suspended-putting-drugs-dating-app-expenses-720klgm5n

    That reminds me that I have a duck in my freezer, next to the partridges and the lobster.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,670
    IanB2 said:

    First!

    And another cloudless sunny day in the Highlands!

    I wish we were still in Ardnamurchan.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,670
    MattW said:

    The French are such amateurs, not a single duck house in sight.

    French MPs suspended for putting drugs and dating app on expenses

    Andy Kerbrat allegedly spent €25,000 on drugs while Christine Engrand, who joined a dating site for the over-fifties, says her new assistant is ‘only a friend’


    https://www.thetimes.com/world/europe/article/french-mps-suspended-putting-drugs-dating-app-expenses-720klgm5n

    That reminds me that I have a duck in my freezer, next to the partridges and the lobster.
    Only on PB…..
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,471

    Thinking about it, if the Catholic Church wanted somebody to take on Trump and his Pope-slaying side-kick Vance, who better than the guy from Chicago?

    "They pull a knife, you pull a gun. He sends one of yours to the hospital, you send one of his to the morgue. That's the Chicago way!"

    His recent rebuke of JD Vance might well have been a factor. One among many, naturally.

    Good morning, everyone.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,471
    I really like that graph. From real data, accurate and a cracker to look at.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,527
    edited 7:03AM
    MattW said:

    Good mooring everyone *. A beautiful day here.

    * Typo. Except on the Erewash Canal.

    FPT: This from @Taz interests me:

    Taz said:

    Roger said:

    Being a saddo, I've just read the Hansard transcripts following Alexander's statement on the US deal. Most of the Tories who spoke were broadly supportive of it, recognising that we hadn't made concessions on farming standards, digital taxes or online safety. I'm not at all convinced that Kemi's view that we've been "shafted" is shared by many of her colleagues, which could spell trouble for her.
    For what it's worth, Douglas Alexander's responses to questions were quite impressive.

    Next Foreign Sec.

    Reshuffle this summer, although Lammy may last until next reshuffle.
    Two Labour MPs have been impressive this week. Douglas Alexander and Louise Haigh. I'd be happy to see either replace the pusillanimous Foreign Sec.
    How has Haigh been impressive ?
    How has she been impressive, @Roger. I can see some good fairly gentle challenges to the leadership to get their backside in gear on things like Council Tax Reform and more progressive taxation, which are strategic things most of us here want addressed even if we disagree on exact answers

    And a bit on her long term campaigns. And having a go at R4 for not being able to pronounce "Haigh" properly (like the WW1 General I think, not horse fodder).

    What else do we have?
    Afaik Haigh hasn’t punched a constituent, made hypocritical statements about Gaza & Trump, broken 28 pre-election promises before breakfast and doesn’t have a stupid quacky voice, so that makes her pretty special on the least bad Divvieometer.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,484

    Told you all, cash is pretty much only used by dodgy people to conduct crimes.

    Revealed: Oliver Oakes resigned days after brother arrested with ‘large amount of cash’

    Exclusive: William Oakes charged with ‘transferring criminal property’ and remanded in custody


    Oliver Oakes, who resigned abruptly as Alpine Formula One team principal this week, did so just days after his brother William, a fellow director at Hitech Grand Prix, was arrested.

    The Telegraph can reveal that William Oakes, 31, who is listed as a director of Hitech Grand Prix on Companies House, was arrested in the Silverstone Park area last Thursday, and charged with “transferring criminal property” last Friday. He was in possession of a large amount of cash, according to police. He has been remanded in custody.

    A spokesperson for the Metropolitan Police said: “William Oakes, 31, of Rugby was charged with transferring criminal property on Friday, May 2 after he was stopped in the Silverstone Park area in Northamptonshire on Thursday, May 1, 2025 in possession of a large amount of cash. He appeared before Northampton Magistrates’ Court on Saturday, May 3, and remanded in custody.”

    Oliver Oakes, who was at the Miami Grand Prix at the time, declined to comment when approached by The Telegraph. He handed in his resignation earlier this week. His whereabouts are currently unknown. He is understood to have flown to Dubai following Sunday’s Miami Grand Prix.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/formula-1/2025/05/08/oliver-oakes-alpine-resigned-days-police-raid-silverstone/

    In this case, cash was used by dodgy people for the crime of having cash. It's like complaining cocaine is used by dodgy people to sell drugs.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 27,030
    edited 7:05AM
    Considering, where are we on the USA trade agreement?

    The best summary I've seen probably says "good, but with a touch of desperation". The potential benefits from the potential EU one are an order of magnitude greater, at least.

    To me it feels very much like a dam against the incoming tide, in the hope that it is nearly at the full, to keep the picnic dry. That's defensive.

    There seem to be - Canada style - several things in it being sold as benefits to and by Mr Trump that may have happened anyway. AFAIC they have counted Boeing orders for IAG, some of which may go to other airlines.

    And is there also a question of running the Trump clock down by keeping talking, as per the current "principles" Ukraine agreement. A hostage to fortune?

    Good for RR and Derby, though.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 18,520
    FPT:
    Pro_Rata said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "@ALDC
    BY ELECTION RESULT

    Calderdale MBC, Skircoat

    ➡️ RefUK: 1392 - 36.8% (new)
    🌹 Lab: 1059 - 28% (-23.11)
    🟢 Grn: 566 - 14.96 (+0.2)
    🔶 LD: 411 - 10.9% (+2.7)
    🔵 Con: 355 - 9.4% (-15.7)

    Reform GAIN from Labour"

    https://x.com/ALDC/status/1920621345034862616

    That is an utterly terrible result for Labour - I don't think they'd have even lost it last week.

    And not only no Green squeeze but no LD squeeze either.

    I know the housing types across most of this ward and looking at the EC map, and I'm struggling to think of the Reform demographic in this Halifax ward at all - a couple of terraces east of the A629, some less grand houses on the main road through Copley village, it doesn't even extend to the town centre terraces.

    It is substantially the sort of mock Tudor around parkland that wouldn't be out of place in Surrey, but which has trended left over the last couple of decades. Can only think it is a remnant of old Tory votes.

    I knew the housing in Longdendale ward in Tameside where Reform prevailed by 20% last month. This is a far worse result than that.

    We are entering the era of peak Reform?
    Depends which bit of the Reform demographic you're thinking of. From Andrew Teale:

    The middle-class nature of Skircoat ward - which increasingly extends to its Asian community - can be seen in its election results, which we can trace over an unusually long length of time because Calderdale's ward boundaries haven't changed since 2004. Skircoat was strongly Conservative in the 2004 election, but it then developed into a close fight between the Conservatives and the Liberal Democrats: the Lib Dems won the ward twice, in 2007 and 2010. The Lib Dem vote then faded away over the next decade and Labour moved into second place in 2014; Labour then gained all three seats in Skircoat ward from the Conservatives in 2018-21 and they have pulled away further since then. At the last Calderdale elections in 2024, Skircoat ward remained part of the Labour majority on Calderdale council with vote shares of 52% for Labour, 25% for the Conservatives and 15% for the Green Party. The ward gave 17% to UKIP back in 2014, which might give Reform UK - who are standing here for the first time - something to build on.

    https://andrewspreviews.substack.com/p/previewing-the-calderdale-and-eastleigh

    Pissed off middle class people with a bit of memory of voting Conservative is textbook Reform; it's not far off as a description of Farage.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,855

    Told you all, cash is pretty much only used by dodgy people to conduct crimes.

    Revealed: Oliver Oakes resigned days after brother arrested with ‘large amount of cash’

    Exclusive: William Oakes charged with ‘transferring criminal property’ and remanded in custody


    Oliver Oakes, who resigned abruptly as Alpine Formula One team principal this week, did so just days after his brother William, a fellow director at Hitech Grand Prix, was arrested.

    The Telegraph can reveal that William Oakes, 31, who is listed as a director of Hitech Grand Prix on Companies House, was arrested in the Silverstone Park area last Thursday, and charged with “transferring criminal property” last Friday. He was in possession of a large amount of cash, according to police. He has been remanded in custody.

    A spokesperson for the Metropolitan Police said: “William Oakes, 31, of Rugby was charged with transferring criminal property on Friday, May 2 after he was stopped in the Silverstone Park area in Northamptonshire on Thursday, May 1, 2025 in possession of a large amount of cash. He appeared before Northampton Magistrates’ Court on Saturday, May 3, and remanded in custody.”

    Oliver Oakes, who was at the Miami Grand Prix at the time, declined to comment when approached by The Telegraph. He handed in his resignation earlier this week. His whereabouts are currently unknown. He is understood to have flown to Dubai following Sunday’s Miami Grand Prix.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/formula-1/2025/05/08/oliver-oakes-alpine-resigned-days-police-raid-silverstone/

    In this case, cash was used by dodgy people for the crime of having cash. It's like complaining cocaine is used by dodgy people to sell drugs.
    You know who also use cash a lot?

    Drug dealers!
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 4,581
    MattW said:

    The French are such amateurs, not a single duck house in sight.

    French MPs suspended for putting drugs and dating app on expenses

    Andy Kerbrat allegedly spent €25,000 on drugs while Christine Engrand, who joined a dating site for the over-fifties, says her new assistant is ‘only a friend’


    https://www.thetimes.com/world/europe/article/french-mps-suspended-putting-drugs-dating-app-expenses-720klgm5n

    That reminds me that I have a duck in my freezer, next to the partridges and the lobster.
    I have ostrich in mine...
  • eekeek Posts: 29,955
    MattW said:

    Considering, where are we on the USA trade agreement?

    The best summary I've seen probably says "good, but with a touch of desperation". The potential benefits from the potential EU one are an order of magnitude greater, at least.

    To me it feels very much like a dam against the incoming tide, in the hope that it is nearly at the full, to keep the picnic dry. That's defensive.

    There seem to be - Canada style - several things in it being sold as benefits to and by Mr Trump that may have happened anyway. AFAIC they have counted Boeing orders for IAG, some of which may go to other airlines.

    And is there also a question of running the Trump clock down by keeping talking, as per the current "principles" Ukraine agreement. A hostage to fortune?

    Good for RR and Derby, though.

    The story I heard is that this is a trial run for a "deal" with china where the US backs down on most things and tries to play it as a win.

    As you say it's hard to see what concessions we've actually made..
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,556

    MattW said:

    The French are such amateurs, not a single duck house in sight.

    French MPs suspended for putting drugs and dating app on expenses

    Andy Kerbrat allegedly spent €25,000 on drugs while Christine Engrand, who joined a dating site for the over-fifties, says her new assistant is ‘only a friend’


    https://www.thetimes.com/world/europe/article/french-mps-suspended-putting-drugs-dating-app-expenses-720klgm5n

    That reminds me that I have a duck in my freezer, next to the partridges and the lobster.
    I have ostrich in mine...
    You must have a very big freezer!
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,527

    MattW said:

    The French are such amateurs, not a single duck house in sight.

    French MPs suspended for putting drugs and dating app on expenses

    Andy Kerbrat allegedly spent €25,000 on drugs while Christine Engrand, who joined a dating site for the over-fifties, says her new assistant is ‘only a friend’


    https://www.thetimes.com/world/europe/article/french-mps-suspended-putting-drugs-dating-app-expenses-720klgm5n

    That reminds me that I have a duck in my freezer, next to the partridges and the lobster.
    I have ostrich in mine...
    Presumably you had to ask it to wind its neck in.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,484
    AnneJGP said:

    I really like that graph. From real data, accurate and a cracker to look at.

    And, as IanB2 pointed out earlier, it refutes the header. Well, half the header. If this were an insiders' market, you could not have got 40/1 when the white smoke appeared. What the graph shows is that Polymarket did not suspend the market in time, so those daft enough to leave open positions were picked off by those who watched the news.

    And it supports the header's title that markets can be ‘laughably wrong’. Markets being wrong is a sign they are not driven by inside information.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 9,875
    IanB2 said:

    If it were an insiders’ market, the graph wouldn’t look like that!

    Essentially it’s an unknown, black box of a market.

    Such a black box that the BBC made a fool of itself this morning

    They said “he doesn’t know any of the Cardinals… needs to introduce himself to the leading bishops”

    This was the man who was head of the house of bishops… and has just been elected pope…
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 14,033
    Fishing said:

    I'm in Paris now. I watched the VE Day celebrations yesterday.

    I'm all for celebrating victory in Europe over vile Nazi scum.

    Laughable seeing the French pretend they had much to do with it though.

    The French had more involvement in World War II than we did. We only fought on one side, whereas they fought on two sides!
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 6,306
    Loads of towns have their signs upside down

    I haven’t remembered to ask anyone why..


  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 9,875

    FPT…

    Fox News host to become US Attorney for the District of Columbia.

    Thank heavens Trump and the Republicans brought back meritocratic hiring.
    Somebody a while back suggested Trump was hiring based on whether someone looked right for the part - I thinking like a TV producer.

    Given Fox hires the same way perhaps there is a reason why so many of his appointees are ex Fox?
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 4,581

    Fishing said:

    I'm in Paris now. I watched the VE Day celebrations yesterday.

    I'm all for celebrating victory in Europe over vile Nazi scum.

    Laughable seeing the French pretend they had much to do with it though.

    The French had more involvement in World War II than we did. We only fought on one side, whereas they fought on two sides!
    I think the French had quite a lot of involvement with their Maquis and Mellice. I wonder if we would have fought as bravely if we'd been occupied.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 14,033
    Looks like a paper candidate unexpectedly being elected. This always happens after big swings to a party, so I have a modicum of sympathy for him compared to the other two (a Rupertite and someone who wasn't allowed to stand in the first place).
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,579

    Loads of towns have their signs upside down

    I haven’t remembered to ask anyone why..


    A way to make drivers slow down?
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 9,875
    eek said:

    MattW said:

    Considering, where are we on the USA trade agreement?

    The best summary I've seen probably says "good, but with a touch of desperation". The potential benefits from the potential EU one are an order of magnitude greater, at least.

    To me it feels very much like a dam against the incoming tide, in the hope that it is nearly at the full, to keep the picnic dry. That's defensive.

    There seem to be - Canada style - several things in it being sold as benefits to and by Mr Trump that may have happened anyway. AFAIC they have counted Boeing orders for IAG, some of which may go to other airlines.

    And is there also a question of running the Trump clock down by keeping talking, as per the current "principles" Ukraine agreement. A hostage to fortune?

    Good for RR and Derby, though.

    The story I heard is that this is a trial run for a "deal" with china where the US backs down on most things and tries to play it as a win.

    As you say it's hard to see what concessions we've actually made..
    Are we labelling their beef with country of origin?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,527

    Fishing said:

    I'm in Paris now. I watched the VE Day celebrations yesterday.

    I'm all for celebrating victory in Europe over vile Nazi scum.

    Laughable seeing the French pretend they had much to do with it though.

    The French had more involvement in World War II than we did. We only fought on one side, whereas they fought on two sides!
    I think the French had quite a lot of involvement with their Maquis and Mellice. I wonder if we would have fought as bravely if we'd been occupied.
    The Channel Islands suggest not.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 14,033

    FPT…

    Fox News host to become US Attorney for the District of Columbia.

    Thank heavens Trump and the Republicans brought back meritocratic hiring.
    Somebody a while back suggested Trump was hiring based on whether someone looked right for the part - I thinking like a TV producer.

    Given Fox hires the same way perhaps there is a reason why so many of his appointees are ex Fox?
    He hires from Fox because his main engagement with events is from watching Fox News.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 14,033

    Loads of towns have their signs upside down

    I haven’t remembered to ask anyone why..


    It's a protest by farmers: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-67702462
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,592

    FPT:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "@ALDC
    BY ELECTION RESULT

    Calderdale MBC, Skircoat

    ➡️ RefUK: 1392 - 36.8% (new)
    🌹 Lab: 1059 - 28% (-23.11)
    🟢 Grn: 566 - 14.96 (+0.2)
    🔶 LD: 411 - 10.9% (+2.7)
    🔵 Con: 355 - 9.4% (-15.7)

    Reform GAIN from Labour"

    https://x.com/ALDC/status/1920621345034862616

    That is an utterly terrible result for Labour - I don't think they'd have even lost it last week.

    And not only no Green squeeze but no LD squeeze either.

    I know the housing types across most of this ward and looking at the EC map, and I'm struggling to think of the Reform demographic in this Halifax ward at all - a couple of terraces east of the A629, some less grand houses on the main road through Copley village, it doesn't even extend to the town centre terraces.

    It is substantially the sort of mock Tudor around parkland that wouldn't be out of place in Surrey, but which has trended left over the last couple of decades. Can only think it is a remnant of old Tory votes.

    I knew the housing in Longdendale ward in Tameside where Reform prevailed by 20% last month. This is a far worse result than that.

    We are entering the era of peak Reform?
    Depends which bit of the Reform demographic you're thinking of. From Andrew Teale:

    The middle-class nature of Skircoat ward - which increasingly extends to its Asian community - can be seen in its election results, which we can trace over an unusually long length of time because Calderdale's ward boundaries haven't changed since 2004. Skircoat was strongly Conservative in the 2004 election, but it then developed into a close fight between the Conservatives and the Liberal Democrats: the Lib Dems won the ward twice, in 2007 and 2010. The Lib Dem vote then faded away over the next decade and Labour moved into second place in 2014; Labour then gained all three seats in Skircoat ward from the Conservatives in 2018-21 and they have pulled away further since then. At the last Calderdale elections in 2024, Skircoat ward remained part of the Labour majority on Calderdale council with vote shares of 52% for Labour, 25% for the Conservatives and 15% for the Green Party. The ward gave 17% to UKIP back in 2014, which might give Reform UK - who are standing here for the first time - something to build on.

    https://andrewspreviews.substack.com/p/previewing-the-calderdale-and-eastleigh

    Pissed off middle class people with a bit of memory of voting Conservative is textbook Reform; it's not far off as a description of Farage.
    Pissed off urban middle class people who fell leftwards in the mid 10s isn't quite so classic Reform though. If it is, places that once voted LD but don't now is another string to their bow.

    Locally, disapproval of Rachel Reeves from Halifax employees could be another factor.

    And old boundaries is an interesting point for next year. It is possibly the biggest round of all up metro elections due to boundary changes in years - most of West Midlands, Tyneside and West Yorkshire are all up, along with Barnsley and Sefton - there are 16 all up metros next year that are usually by thirds. If Reform have kept cleanish where they are in charge now, they could get a very significant metro foothold in a single year.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 9,875

    FPT…

    Fox News host to become US Attorney for the District of Columbia.

    Thank heavens Trump and the Republicans brought back meritocratic hiring.
    Somebody a while back suggested Trump was hiring based on whether someone looked right for the part - I thinking like a TV producer.

    Given Fox hires the same way perhaps there is a reason why so many of his appointees are ex Fox?
    He hires from Fox because his main engagement with events is from watching Fox News.
    That’s also plausible
  • MattWMattW Posts: 27,030
    edited 7:32AM

    FPT:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "@ALDC
    BY ELECTION RESULT

    Calderdale MBC, Skircoat

    ➡️ RefUK: 1392 - 36.8% (new)
    🌹 Lab: 1059 - 28% (-23.11)
    🟢 Grn: 566 - 14.96 (+0.2)
    🔶 LD: 411 - 10.9% (+2.7)
    🔵 Con: 355 - 9.4% (-15.7)

    Reform GAIN from Labour"

    https://x.com/ALDC/status/1920621345034862616

    That is an utterly terrible result for Labour - I don't think they'd have even lost it last week.

    And not only no Green squeeze but no LD squeeze either.

    I know the housing types across most of this ward and looking at the EC map, and I'm struggling to think of the Reform demographic in this Halifax ward at all - a couple of terraces east of the A629, some less grand houses on the main road through Copley village, it doesn't even extend to the town centre terraces.

    It is substantially the sort of mock Tudor around parkland that wouldn't be out of place in Surrey, but which has trended left over the last couple of decades. Can only think it is a remnant of old Tory votes.

    I knew the housing in Longdendale ward in Tameside where Reform prevailed by 20% last month. This is a far worse result than that.

    We are entering the era of peak Reform?
    Depends which bit of the Reform demographic you're thinking of. From Andrew Teale:

    The middle-class nature of Skircoat ward - which increasingly extends to its Asian community - can be seen in its election results, which we can trace over an unusually long length of time because Calderdale's ward boundaries haven't changed since 2004. Skircoat was strongly Conservative in the 2004 election, but it then developed into a close fight between the Conservatives and the Liberal Democrats: the Lib Dems won the ward twice, in 2007 and 2010. The Lib Dem vote then faded away over the next decade and Labour moved into second place in 2014; Labour then gained all three seats in Skircoat ward from the Conservatives in 2018-21 and they have pulled away further since then. At the last Calderdale elections in 2024, Skircoat ward remained part of the Labour majority on Calderdale council with vote shares of 52% for Labour, 25% for the Conservatives and 15% for the Green Party. The ward gave 17% to UKIP back in 2014, which might give Reform UK - who are standing here for the first time - something to build on.

    https://andrewspreviews.substack.com/p/previewing-the-calderdale-and-eastleigh

    Pissed off middle class people with a bit of memory of voting Conservative is textbook Reform; it's not far off as a description of Farage.
    Let me try for one of our pissed-off demographics.

    Around here (Ashfield), this street had the most Reform decals of any I saw. These are late 1960s / 1970s type housing, quite modest 3 bed ~900-1000sqft with a through lounge typically lived in by people who have dogs they walk on the rec at the back, and perhaps allotments on the big plot across the road. People stay a long time, and may have local family. These will mainly your middle aged -> retired skilled workers, lowish end professionals (nurses, teachers, LA employees), small business. Comfortable but not wealthy - those will be eg in detached bungalows. Note the campervans / caravans.

    Current prices for these are approx £220k or so, so modestly above the local average price for a semi.

    I think it was the New Statesman podcast that noted that Red Wall type places which still have a functioning housing market and new builds on the outskirts where new people come in (around here often East European migrants buying their 1st or 2nd house), have had their comfort zone made tighter by £££ more on the mortgage payments. They are generally politically grumpy, and politically homeless for some time - swinging perhaps from Ashfield Independent to Reform.


  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,583
    edited 7:29AM

    Loads of towns have their signs upside down

    I haven’t remembered to ask anyone why..


    It's a protest by farmers. It has been happening for a couple of years. I first noticed it a couple of years ago in the SW and asked.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,527
    Xi sitting next to his bestie. Let’s hope they’ve got their anti drone systems in perfect working order.

    https://x.com/mfa_russia/status/1920734619168616931?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 38,373

    FPT…

    Fox News host to become US Attorney for the District of Columbia.

    Thank heavens Trump and the Republicans brought back meritocratic hiring.
    Somebody a while back suggested Trump was hiring based on whether someone looked right for the part - I thinking like a TV producer.

    Given Fox hires the same way perhaps there is a reason why so many of his appointees are ex Fox?
    He hires people who say nice things about him on TV, and the TV he watches is Fox

    The people he hired don't actually look the part

    Guyliner for Veep?

    Alcoholic Defense secretary?

    Brain Worm for HHS?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 27,030
    edited 7:37AM

    MattW said:

    The French are such amateurs, not a single duck house in sight.

    French MPs suspended for putting drugs and dating app on expenses

    Andy Kerbrat allegedly spent €25,000 on drugs while Christine Engrand, who joined a dating site for the over-fifties, says her new assistant is ‘only a friend’


    https://www.thetimes.com/world/europe/article/french-mps-suspended-putting-drugs-dating-app-expenses-720klgm5n

    That reminds me that I have a duck in my freezer, next to the partridges and the lobster.
    I have ostrich in mine...
    So do I, as it happens ! In the form of one steak.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,474
    kjh said:

    Loads of towns have their signs upside down

    I haven’t remembered to ask anyone why..


    It's a protest by farmers. It has been happening for a couple of years. I first noticed it a couple of years ago in the SW and asked.
    Clearly they want France and Australia to merge.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,527
    I’m in the uncomfortable position of agreeing with Hitch minor. I certainly agree that Russia and the UK are two cultures that are essentially commemorative.

    https://x.com/davidyelland/status/1920731010808926623?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 14,173

    Loads of towns have their signs upside down

    I haven’t remembered to ask anyone why..


    It's a cunning plan to confuse invaders who use the Cyrillic alphabet.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 38,373
  • MattWMattW Posts: 27,030
    The Ukraine the Latest podcast are running a live commentary on the Putin Parade, by Dom Nicholls (staffer) and Oksana Pyzik (Academic with Ukr connections - I think).

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMfnk-j42Rs
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 18,520
    Scott_xP said:

    FPT…

    Fox News host to become US Attorney for the District of Columbia.

    Thank heavens Trump and the Republicans brought back meritocratic hiring.
    Somebody a while back suggested Trump was hiring based on whether someone looked right for the part - I thinking like a TV producer.

    Given Fox hires the same way perhaps there is a reason why so many of his appointees are ex Fox?
    He hires people who say nice things about him on TV, and the TV he watches is Fox

    The people he hired don't actually look the part

    Guyliner for Veep?

    Alcoholic Defense secretary?

    Brain Worm for HHS?
    They may not be the part, but the suits and makeup mean that they look the part.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 38,373

    Scott_xP said:

    FPT…

    Fox News host to become US Attorney for the District of Columbia.

    Thank heavens Trump and the Republicans brought back meritocratic hiring.
    Somebody a while back suggested Trump was hiring based on whether someone looked right for the part - I thinking like a TV producer.

    Given Fox hires the same way perhaps there is a reason why so many of his appointees are ex Fox?
    He hires people who say nice things about him on TV, and the TV he watches is Fox

    The people he hired don't actually look the part

    Guyliner for Veep?

    Alcoholic Defense secretary?

    Brain Worm for HHS?
    They may not be the part, but the suits and makeup mean that they look the part.
    I am not sure that's true

    Although the Mad King always looks shit on TV, so maybe that's the standard
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 33,302

    geoffw said:

    Pope is one thing. Second on PB is another

    Let me see if I've got this right? The big boss is Robert, and he has a pseudonym Leon which he has to use to pontificate loudly on all manner of random things? And people are supposed to believe him or we all go to hell?
    And behind him is the archangel Michael who is the final arbiter of all arguments.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,497
    edited 7:53AM
    Kemi keeps dropping words & phrases such as ‘shafted’, ‘half-arsed’ into the discourse, as well as telling Sir Keir ‘he doesn’t have the balls’ . Is it going to establish a view of her as straight talking, or rude? John Rentoul has noted his displeasure with it a couple of times

    Labour has blocked every single measure we’ve put forward to cut immigration and stop abuse of the system.

    Now they’re pushing one half-arsed proposal — it’s weak, it won’t work. It’s time they stopped playing games and backed our Deportation bill.

    https://x.com/kemibadenoch/status/1920739530862186504?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,011
    isam said:

    Kemi keeps dropping these in seemingly wirds into discourse; ‘shafted’, ‘half-arsed’, & telling Sir Keir ‘he doesn’t have the balls’ . Is it going to establish a view of her as straight talking, or rude? John Rentoul has noted his displeasure with it a couple of times

    Labour has blocked every single measure we’ve put forward to cut immigration and stop abuse of the system.

    Now they’re pushing one half-arsed proposal — it’s weak, it won’t work. It’s time they stopped playing games and backed our Deportation bill.

    https://x.com/kemibadenoch/status/1920739530862186504?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Think William Hague in a baseball hat...
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 33,302

    Looks like a paper candidate unexpectedly being elected. This always happens after big swings to a party, so I have a modicum of sympathy for him compared to the other two (a Rupertite and someone who wasn't allowed to stand in the first place).
    It was a shame he beat perhaps the only decent Tory on Nottinghamshire CC - Keith Girling. A man for whome the phrase 'public servant' in its true sense was probably created.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 14,173
    A beautiful example from the Guardian's Polly Toynbee of two rules: all politics is relative, so Polly is now rushing to sympathise with One Nation Toryism which was once the wicked political foe; secondly that there is always a degree of unity among the right sort against oiks.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/may/09/three-ways-save-tories-reform-centrists-stop-rot
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,474
    On the header, the fact that the winner was 50/1 doesn't mean that the betting market was wrong. 50/1 shots should and do win about 2% of the time, not because the markets are wrong, but that is what 50/1 means.

    It might have been wrong and he was always a more likely candidate (maybe even pre-ordained), but it could also have been that if you ran the process again he would mostly have come nowhere.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,474
    edited 7:58AM
    isam said:

    Kemi keeps dropping words & phrases such as ‘shafted’, ‘half-arsed’ into the discourse, as well as telling Sir Keir ‘he doesn’t have the balls’ . Is it going to establish a view of her as straight talking, or rude? John Rentoul has noted his displeasure with it a couple of times

    Labour has blocked every single measure we’ve put forward to cut immigration and stop abuse of the system.

    Now they’re pushing one half-arsed proposal — it’s weak, it won’t work. It’s time they stopped playing games and backed our Deportation bill.

    https://x.com/kemibadenoch/status/1920739530862186504?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    If Boris said the same things, the people who moan about Kemi for this wouldn't give a shit.

    Her problem is that when she and her party were in charge their own work was half-arsed.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,356
    edited 8:03AM

    Fishing said:

    I'm in Paris now. I watched the VE Day celebrations yesterday.

    I'm all for celebrating victory in Europe over vile Nazi scum.

    Laughable seeing the French pretend they had much to do with it though.

    The French had more involvement in World War II than we did. We only fought on one side, whereas they fought on two sides!
    I think the French had quite a lot of involvement with their Maquis and Mellice. I wonder if we would have fought as bravely if we'd been occupied.
    The TV and films we watch tend to blur the reality that it was a significantly changing picture as the war progressed. During the early years after the occupation, there were relatively few principled people willing to put their lives on the line by actively resisting, and those that did received relatively little support from the wider population. Once the German advances began to stall, there were more willing to participate, with the two most significant events being the invasion of Russia - bringing France’s strong grassroots communists onto the allied side - and German attempts to round up young Frenchmen for deportation and forced labour - compared to which joining the maquis often seemed the better choice. By the end, when it was obvious Germany’s days were numbered, almost everybody wanted a slice of the action, including many those eager to do something to distract from or erase their somewhat dodgy prior records.

    I doubt Britain would have been significantly different (the absence of a strong communist movement would possibly have reduced resistance activity, along with out greater population density reducing the opportunity to hide out in the wilds). And far more of us, or our predecessors, would have collaborated than we like to imagine. In the Channel Islands, the small German garrison was overwhelmed with the number of denunciation letters they received from the local populace (the majority not about actual resistance activity but merely using the war as a chance to settle various unneighbourly grievances).
  • kamskikamski Posts: 6,440
    Is there a change of tone recently from the Trump administration?

    Compare this from JD Vance a couple days ago:

    “ I think — I mean this from the heart and as a friend — that there is a trade-off between policing the bounds of democratic speech and debate and losing the trust of our people. And we’re all going to draw the lines a little bit differently,” Vance said. “I’m fine if one country is going to draw those lines a little bit differently than the United States.”

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025/5/7/its-not-europe-bad-america-good-jd-vance-returns-to-munich-meeting

    with his absurd and hostile speech he gave in Munich in February.

    There's also been more criticism of Putin and less of Zelensky recently.

    I wonder if the China hawks in the US administration have realised:
    a) They can't really offer anything to Putin that will make him break with China.
    b) They need allies (eg Europe), if they are to take on China.


    The meeting between Carney and Trump was also somewhat conciliatory.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,574
    MattW said:

    Good mooring everyone *. A beautiful day here.

    * Typo. Except on the Erewash Canal.

    FPT: This from @Taz interests me:

    Taz said:

    Roger said:

    Being a saddo, I've just read the Hansard transcripts following Alexander's statement on the US deal. Most of the Tories who spoke were broadly supportive of it, recognising that we hadn't made concessions on farming standards, digital taxes or online safety. I'm not at all convinced that Kemi's view that we've been "shafted" is shared by many of her colleagues, which could spell trouble for her.
    For what it's worth, Douglas Alexander's responses to questions were quite impressive.

    Next Foreign Sec.

    Reshuffle this summer, although Lammy may last until next reshuffle.
    Two Labour MPs have been impressive this week. Douglas Alexander and Louise Haigh. I'd be happy to see either replace the pusillanimous Foreign Sec.
    How has Haigh been impressive ?
    How has she been impressive, @Roger. I can see some good fairly gentle challenges to the leadership to get their backside in gear on things like Council Tax Reform and more progressive taxation, which are strategic things most of us here want addressed even if we disagree on exact answers

    And a bit on her long term campaigns. And having a go at R4 for not being able to pronounce "Haigh" properly (like the WW1 General I think, not horse fodder).

    What else do we have?
    I knew nothing about this new Cabinet Minister with screaming red hair until she was fired for dishonesty. Then the other night I caught an episode of Newsnight and put the two characters together. She was bright sparky and with an attractive personality and SKS's apparently odd choice made sense.

    She has subsequently been on the radio several times because of the subject matter of this interview.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZ1WFi6Wd98
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 77,136

    Should we have caught it, though?

    It looks like another Trump effect. I just didn't know enough about the candidates to pick it up, and was too busy laughing at Cardinals funny names.

    It's a Francis effect, rather than Trump, I think.

    Prevost was appointed by Francis and made head of Vatican HR:
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dicastery_for_Bishops

    I didn't bet on this at all, but the guy effectively in charge of new appointments, hand picked by the last Pope, and something of a centrist, surely ought to have been shorter odds ?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 27,030
    A US farming perspective on the trade deal.

    https://www.dtnpf.com/agriculture/web/ag/news/article/2025/05/08/ethanol-beef-big-ag-winners-us-uk

    I'm interested in the extensive range of things listed as "agricultural products", which include (bio)ethanol and Scotch Whisky.

    I think they are way too optimistic on hormone treated beef and chicken.

    IMO our domestic attitudes and EU-deal-required redlines mean that the only beef coming in will be in the High Quality Beef, Non-Hormone-Treated, and Organic categories - both because of chemicals, but also because of welfare standards.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,085

    Looks like a paper candidate unexpectedly being elected. This always happens after big swings to a party, so I have a modicum of sympathy for him compared to the other two (a Rupertite and someone who wasn't allowed to stand in the first place).
    There were a few opposite cases for local elections in Germany recently. Each party submits a list. After the election the number of seats is filled proportionately to the votes for that party. The list is rarely full for all possible councilors, as that's pointless extra work for a small party. If the party does unexpectedly well then there are not enough councilors on the list.

    Eg. a council has 50 seats and the small party Dfa at best hope to win 5 seats. They submit a list with 6 people on it. They end up with 16.1% of the vote worth 8 councilors, so two posts are empty. There is no by election, those positions simply remain empty.

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 77,136
    MattW said:

    The French are such amateurs, not a single duck house in sight.

    French MPs suspended for putting drugs and dating app on expenses

    Andy Kerbrat allegedly spent €25,000 on drugs while Christine Engrand, who joined a dating site for the over-fifties, says her new assistant is ‘only a friend’


    https://www.thetimes.com/world/europe/article/french-mps-suspended-putting-drugs-dating-app-expenses-720klgm5n

    That reminds me that I have a duck in my freezer, next to the partridges and the lobster.
    Several packs of frozen peas, and cranberries in mine.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 27,030
    Nigelb said:

    MattW said:

    The French are such amateurs, not a single duck house in sight.

    French MPs suspended for putting drugs and dating app on expenses

    Andy Kerbrat allegedly spent €25,000 on drugs while Christine Engrand, who joined a dating site for the over-fifties, says her new assistant is ‘only a friend’


    https://www.thetimes.com/world/europe/article/french-mps-suspended-putting-drugs-dating-app-expenses-720klgm5n

    That reminds me that I have a duck in my freezer, next to the partridges and the lobster.
    Several packs of frozen peas, and cranberries in mine.
    We need to hear from @Leon on this key question !
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,762
    MattW said:

    FPT:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "@ALDC
    BY ELECTION RESULT

    Calderdale MBC, Skircoat

    ➡️ RefUK: 1392 - 36.8% (new)
    🌹 Lab: 1059 - 28% (-23.11)
    🟢 Grn: 566 - 14.96 (+0.2)
    🔶 LD: 411 - 10.9% (+2.7)
    🔵 Con: 355 - 9.4% (-15.7)

    Reform GAIN from Labour"

    https://x.com/ALDC/status/1920621345034862616

    That is an utterly terrible result for Labour - I don't think they'd have even lost it last week.

    And not only no Green squeeze but no LD squeeze either.

    I know the housing types across most of this ward and looking at the EC map, and I'm struggling to think of the Reform demographic in this Halifax ward at all - a couple of terraces east of the A629, some less grand houses on the main road through Copley village, it doesn't even extend to the town centre terraces.

    It is substantially the sort of mock Tudor around parkland that wouldn't be out of place in Surrey, but which has trended left over the last couple of decades. Can only think it is a remnant of old Tory votes.

    I knew the housing in Longdendale ward in Tameside where Reform prevailed by 20% last month. This is a far worse result than that.

    We are entering the era of peak Reform?
    Depends which bit of the Reform demographic you're thinking of. From Andrew Teale:

    The middle-class nature of Skircoat ward - which increasingly extends to its Asian community - can be seen in its election results, which we can trace over an unusually long length of time because Calderdale's ward boundaries haven't changed since 2004. Skircoat was strongly Conservative in the 2004 election, but it then developed into a close fight between the Conservatives and the Liberal Democrats: the Lib Dems won the ward twice, in 2007 and 2010. The Lib Dem vote then faded away over the next decade and Labour moved into second place in 2014; Labour then gained all three seats in Skircoat ward from the Conservatives in 2018-21 and they have pulled away further since then. At the last Calderdale elections in 2024, Skircoat ward remained part of the Labour majority on Calderdale council with vote shares of 52% for Labour, 25% for the Conservatives and 15% for the Green Party. The ward gave 17% to UKIP back in 2014, which might give Reform UK - who are standing here for the first time - something to build on.

    https://andrewspreviews.substack.com/p/previewing-the-calderdale-and-eastleigh

    Pissed off middle class people with a bit of memory of voting Conservative is textbook Reform; it's not far off as a description of Farage.
    Let me try for one of our pissed-off demographics.

    Around here (Ashfield), this street had the most Reform decals of any I saw. These are late 1960s / 1970s type housing, quite modest 3 bed ~900-1000sqft with a through lounge typically lived in by people who have dogs they walk on the rec at the back, and perhaps allotments on the big plot across the road. People stay a long time, and may have local family. These will mainly your middle aged -> retired skilled workers, lowish end professionals (nurses, teachers, LA employees), small business. Comfortable but not wealthy - those will be eg in detached bungalows. Note the campervans / caravans.

    Current prices for these are approx £220k or so, so modestly above the local average price for a semi.

    I think it was the New Statesman podcast that noted that Red Wall type places which still have a functioning housing market and new builds on the outskirts where new people come in (around here often East European migrants buying their 1st or 2nd house), have had their comfort zone made tighter by £££ more on the mortgage payments. They are generally politically grumpy, and politically homeless for some time - swinging perhaps from Ashfield Independent to Reform.


    Wasn't it Geoff Hoon who was leafletting in Ashfield many years ago and said he could not believe the number of shiny new cars on every drive?
  • isamisam Posts: 41,497

    isam said:

    Kemi keeps dropping words & phrases such as ‘shafted’, ‘half-arsed’ into the discourse, as well as telling Sir Keir ‘he doesn’t have the balls’ . Is it going to establish a view of her as straight talking, or rude? John Rentoul has noted his displeasure with it a couple of times

    Labour has blocked every single measure we’ve put forward to cut immigration and stop abuse of the system.

    Now they’re pushing one half-arsed proposal — it’s weak, it won’t work. It’s time they stopped playing games and backed our Deportation bill.

    https://x.com/kemibadenoch/status/1920739530862186504?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    If Boris said the same things, the people who moan about Kemi for this wouldn't give a shit.

    Her problem is that when she and her party were in charge their own work was half-arsed.
    I’d like her to do well, but I think she has a way of speaking that makes her sound a bit forced, especially when being controversial. I think you’re right though, imagining Boris saying the same things they don’t seem as bad. But Rentoul has called her out every time, and he wasn’t a Boris supporter
  • PJHPJH Posts: 836
    Happy Liberation Day
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,011

    Looks like a paper candidate unexpectedly being elected. This always happens after big swings to a party, so I have a modicum of sympathy for him compared to the other two (a Rupertite and someone who wasn't allowed to stand in the first place).
    It was a shame he beat perhaps the only decent Tory on Nottinghamshire CC - Keith Girling. A man for whome the phrase 'public servant' in its true sense was probably created.
    The question is what happens now: will the competent Tory run again, and be defeated again by a no-name candidate?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 77,136
    Nigelb said:

    Should we have caught it, though?

    It looks like another Trump effect. I just didn't know enough about the candidates to pick it up, and was too busy laughing at Cardinals funny names.

    It's a Francis effect, rather than Trump, I think.

    Prevost was appointed by Francis and made head of Vatican HR:
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dicastery_for_Bishops

    I didn't bet on this at all, but the guy effectively in charge of new appointments, hand picked by the last Pope, and something of a centrist, surely ought to have been shorter odds ?
    Perhaps punters misheard it as die-castery, and thought he was just in charge of making the Vatican souvenirs ?
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 4,581
    edited 8:14AM
    eristdoof said:

    Looks like a paper candidate unexpectedly being elected. This always happens after big swings to a party, so I have a modicum of sympathy for him compared to the other two (a Rupertite and someone who wasn't allowed to stand in the first place).
    There were a few opposite cases for local elections in Germany recently. Each party submits a list. After the election the number of seats is filled proportionately to the votes for that party. The list is rarely full for all possible councilors, as that's pointless extra work for a small party. If the party does unexpectedly well then there are not enough councilors on the list.

    Eg. a council has 50 seats and the small party Dfa at best hope to win 5 seats. They submit a list with 6 people on it. They end up with 16.1% of the vote worth 8 councilors, so two posts are empty. There is no by election, those positions simply remain empty.

    It will become apparent in the senedd elections. Each constituency will have 6 members to elect, so each party will put up a list of 6, I presume. I assume there will be no by elections but will fill from their list, assuming the rest are still available.
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 6,306
    I caught up on doing my Airbnb reviews last night, which meant I also got to see what they've said about me

    They all fucking love me. Not only have they all given me five stars, they've written lovely things about me, and highly recommended me to other hosts

    I am always cheerful and polite (mostly just through messages, I've only met one of them on this trip), I leave the places spotless (they love this, and always thank me for it), and whenever I leave I send a message thanking them for letting me stay at their lovely apartment

    They all got top marks from me as well
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 983
    Roger said:

    MattW said:

    Good mooring everyone *. A beautiful day here.

    * Typo. Except on the Erewash Canal.

    FPT: This from @Taz interests me:

    Taz said:

    Roger said:

    Being a saddo, I've just read the Hansard transcripts following Alexander's statement on the US deal. Most of the Tories who spoke were broadly supportive of it, recognising that we hadn't made concessions on farming standards, digital taxes or online safety. I'm not at all convinced that Kemi's view that we've been "shafted" is shared by many of her colleagues, which could spell trouble for her.
    For what it's worth, Douglas Alexander's responses to questions were quite impressive.

    Next Foreign Sec.

    Reshuffle this summer, although Lammy may last until next reshuffle.
    Two Labour MPs have been impressive this week. Douglas Alexander and Louise Haigh. I'd be happy to see either replace the pusillanimous Foreign Sec.
    How has Haigh been impressive ?
    How has she been impressive, @Roger. I can see some good fairly gentle challenges to the leadership to get their backside in gear on things like Council Tax Reform and more progressive taxation, which are strategic things most of us here want addressed even if we disagree on exact answers

    And a bit on her long term campaigns. And having a go at R4 for not being able to pronounce "Haigh" properly (like the WW1 General I think, not horse fodder).

    What else do we have?
    I knew nothing about this new Cabinet Minister with screaming red hair until she was fired for dishonesty. Then the other night I caught an episode of Newsnight and put the two characters together. She was bright sparky and with an attractive personality and SKS's apparently odd choice made sense.

    She has subsequently been on the radio several times because of the subject matter of this interview.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZ1WFi6Wd98
    She was better than her replacement, who was decidedly grumpy on Peston(?) the other week.

    In other news, has Sadiq Khan been spotted at the races as a guest of the Jockey club? https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/may/09/sadiq-khan-to-announce-plans-to-build-houses-on-london-green-belt
    https://www.thejockeyclub.co.uk/about-us/media-centre/press-releases/2020/02/smaller-scale-residential-development-option-for-kempton-park-that-retains-both-turf-and-all-weather-racing-put-forward/#:~:text=These unique set of circumstances,planning application has been made.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,229
    The UK/US trade deal is actually fine for the UK.

    Essentially Donald is desperate for a deal - any deal - and we’ve taken advantage of that to avoid the worst of his so-called liberation tariffs.

    Kemi just looks like an opportunistic idiot. She’s simply not up to it, as predicted by anyone conscious of her lack of achievements in Cabinet.

    The Tories have nothing to offer. The only reason I can think of to vote for them might be that they are not Reforn. In a hypothetical Tory/Reform election, I would hold my nose and vote Tory.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,474
    isam said:

    isam said:

    Kemi keeps dropping words & phrases such as ‘shafted’, ‘half-arsed’ into the discourse, as well as telling Sir Keir ‘he doesn’t have the balls’ . Is it going to establish a view of her as straight talking, or rude? John Rentoul has noted his displeasure with it a couple of times

    Labour has blocked every single measure we’ve put forward to cut immigration and stop abuse of the system.

    Now they’re pushing one half-arsed proposal — it’s weak, it won’t work. It’s time they stopped playing games and backed our Deportation bill.

    https://x.com/kemibadenoch/status/1920739530862186504?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    If Boris said the same things, the people who moan about Kemi for this wouldn't give a shit.

    Her problem is that when she and her party were in charge their own work was half-arsed.
    I’d like her to do well, but I think she has a way of speaking that makes her sound a bit forced, especially when being controversial. I think you’re right though, imagining Boris saying the same things they don’t seem as bad. But Rentoul has called her out every time, and he wasn’t a Boris supporter
    I doubt he would have called Boris out for the odd colloquialism though. It is just a bit of snobbery.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,085

    eristdoof said:

    Looks like a paper candidate unexpectedly being elected. This always happens after big swings to a party, so I have a modicum of sympathy for him compared to the other two (a Rupertite and someone who wasn't allowed to stand in the first place).
    There were a few opposite cases for local elections in Germany recently. Each party submits a list. After the election the number of seats is filled proportionately to the votes for that party. The list is rarely full for all possible councilors, as that's pointless extra work for a small party. If the party does unexpectedly well then there are not enough councilors on the list.

    Eg. a council has 50 seats and the small party Dfa at best hope to win 5 seats. They submit a list with 6 people on it. They end up with 16.1% of the vote worth 8 councilors, so two posts are empty. There is no by election, those positions simply remain empty.

    It will become apparent in the senedd elections. Each constituency will have 6 members to elect, so each party will put up a list of 6 I presume. I assume there will be no by elections but will fill from their list, assuming the rest are still available.
    How does that work? Does each party can have a maximum of 6 members in the sennedd?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,527
    IanB2 said:

    MattW said:

    The French are such amateurs, not a single duck house in sight.

    French MPs suspended for putting drugs and dating app on expenses

    Andy Kerbrat allegedly spent €25,000 on drugs while Christine Engrand, who joined a dating site for the over-fifties, says her new assistant is ‘only a friend’


    https://www.thetimes.com/world/europe/article/french-mps-suspended-putting-drugs-dating-app-expenses-720klgm5n

    That reminds me that I have a duck in my freezer, next to the partridges and the lobster.
    Sadly it’s probably dead by now.
    The lobster in the feezer with a frozen partridge.

    One of the lesser known Agatha Christie works.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,229
    edited 8:15AM
    isam said:

    isam said:

    Kemi keeps dropping words & phrases such as ‘shafted’, ‘half-arsed’ into the discourse, as well as telling Sir Keir ‘he doesn’t have the balls’ . Is it going to establish a view of her as straight talking, or rude? John Rentoul has noted his displeasure with it a couple of times

    Labour has blocked every single measure we’ve put forward to cut immigration and stop abuse of the system.

    Now they’re pushing one half-arsed proposal — it’s weak, it won’t work. It’s time they stopped playing games and backed our Deportation bill.

    https://x.com/kemibadenoch/status/1920739530862186504?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    If Boris said the same things, the people who moan about Kemi for this wouldn't give a shit.

    Her problem is that when she and her party were in charge their own work was half-arsed.
    I’d like her to do well, but I think she has a way of speaking that makes her sound a bit forced, especially when being controversial. I think you’re right though, imagining Boris saying the same things they don’t seem as bad. But Rentoul has called her out every time, and he wasn’t a Boris supporter
    Unfortunately, she’s thick AND lazy.
    While Boris was merely lazy and venal, but not thick.

  • kamskikamski Posts: 6,440

    On the header, the fact that the winner was 50/1 doesn't mean that the betting market was wrong. 50/1 shots should and do win about 2% of the time, not because the markets are wrong, but that is what 50/1 means.

    It might have been wrong and he was always a more likely candidate (maybe even pre-ordained), but it could also have been that if you ran the process again he would mostly have come nowhere.

    It's hard to know if 50/1 shots do win about 2% of the time without doing some maths. It might be overall true, but I think the argument is that it might not be true for next pope markets, though I think you can make a better case for saying that the odds on the favourite were too short in a market which is essentially guesswork and has a large number of possible winners.

    There are probably not enough 'next pope' markets to do any analysis, but it might be that you could show that 'laying the favourite' could be a successful strategy on this kind of market - if you think markets like next Democratic presidential nominee, next Conservative leader, next Pope, can be lumped together...
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,462

    The UK/US trade deal is actually fine for the UK.

    Essentially Donald is desperate for a deal - any deal - and we’ve taken advantage of that to avoid the worst of his so-called liberation tariffs.

    Kemi just looks like an opportunistic idiot. She’s simply not up to it, as predicted by anyone conscious of her lack of achievements in Cabinet.

    The Tories have nothing to offer. The only reason I can think of to vote for them might be that they are not Reforn. In a hypothetical Tory/Reform election, I would hold my nose and vote Tory.

    The deal is status is fiddling around plus accepting higher tariffs than previously existed in the US while not raising any of ours.

    Not really something to crow about. The only bright spot is reducing the tariff increases in several key U.K. export areas.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 10,393

    FPT @Luckyguy1983

    Net Zero is starting to now run into economic reality with electric cars and deindustrialisation in a way it wasn't in the 2010s.

    To go further, we will have to accept real economic damage being done now, with the hope that our global leadership on it galvanises a faster transition to Net Zero worldwide.

    Will we?

    To put the actual argument to one side, it was interesting to find that even Reform voters aren't that fussed about Net Zero - only 9% picked it as an issue. It's very much an internet meme.

    Yet Farage considers this the "next Brexit". That feels like a fumble to me. They should stick to national identity and immigration.

    https://www.ft.com/content/ecb81e0e-11f6-469b-86ef-8e29996b9019
    https://www.moreincommon.org.uk/media/2cyg5l1m/more-in-common-post-election-briefing-4.pdf
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 7,402
    edited 8:17AM
    isam said:

    isam said:

    Kemi keeps dropping words & phrases such as ‘shafted’, ‘half-arsed’ into the discourse, as well as telling Sir Keir ‘he doesn’t have the balls’ . Is it going to establish a view of her as straight talking, or rude? John Rentoul has noted his displeasure with it a couple of times

    Labour has blocked every single measure we’ve put forward to cut immigration and stop abuse of the system.

    Now they’re pushing one half-arsed proposal — it’s weak, it won’t work. It’s time they stopped playing games and backed our Deportation bill.

    https://x.com/kemibadenoch/status/1920739530862186504?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    If Boris said the same things, the people who moan about Kemi for this wouldn't give a shit.

    Her problem is that when she and her party were in charge their own work was half-arsed.
    I’d like her to do well, but I think she has a way of speaking that makes her sound a bit forced, especially when being controversial. I think you’re right though, imagining Boris saying the same things they don’t seem as bad. But Rentoul has called her out every time, and he wasn’t a Boris supporter
    I’m actually quite surprised at how poor she’s been on the attack. I thought that whatever her flaws she is quite good at finding fault(!) and she’s previously been articulate, so I thought if nothing else we’d see quite a few effective put downs. But this has proven not to be so. She is very flat footed. Those who said she wasn’t ready for prime time in 2022 were right, but it was thought with a few more years “in the oven” as it were, she’d have become more impressive. In a weird way, it’s almost like the opposite has happened.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,229
    Roger said:

    MattW said:

    Good mooring everyone *. A beautiful day here.

    * Typo. Except on the Erewash Canal.

    FPT: This from @Taz interests me:

    Taz said:

    Roger said:

    Being a saddo, I've just read the Hansard transcripts following Alexander's statement on the US deal. Most of the Tories who spoke were broadly supportive of it, recognising that we hadn't made concessions on farming standards, digital taxes or online safety. I'm not at all convinced that Kemi's view that we've been "shafted" is shared by many of her colleagues, which could spell trouble for her.
    For what it's worth, Douglas Alexander's responses to questions were quite impressive.

    Next Foreign Sec.

    Reshuffle this summer, although Lammy may last until next reshuffle.
    Two Labour MPs have been impressive this week. Douglas Alexander and Louise Haigh. I'd be happy to see either replace the pusillanimous Foreign Sec.
    How has Haigh been impressive ?
    How has she been impressive, @Roger. I can see some good fairly gentle challenges to the leadership to get their backside in gear on things like Council Tax Reform and more progressive taxation, which are strategic things most of us here want addressed even if we disagree on exact answers

    And a bit on her long term campaigns. And having a go at R4 for not being able to pronounce "Haigh" properly (like the WW1 General I think, not horse fodder).

    What else do we have?
    I knew nothing about this new Cabinet Minister with screaming red hair until she was fired for dishonesty. Then the other night I caught an episode of Newsnight and put the two characters together. She was bright sparky and with an attractive personality and SKS's apparently odd choice made sense.

    She has subsequently been on the radio several times because of the subject matter of this interview.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZ1WFi6Wd98
    Shows how desperate people are.
    You can’t have fraudsters in high office, unfortunately Life is tough. There ought to be no second chances in this respect.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 4,581
    eristdoof said:

    eristdoof said:

    Looks like a paper candidate unexpectedly being elected. This always happens after big swings to a party, so I have a modicum of sympathy for him compared to the other two (a Rupertite and someone who wasn't allowed to stand in the first place).
    There were a few opposite cases for local elections in Germany recently. Each party submits a list. After the election the number of seats is filled proportionately to the votes for that party. The list is rarely full for all possible councilors, as that's pointless extra work for a small party. If the party does unexpectedly well then there are not enough councilors on the list.

    Eg. a council has 50 seats and the small party Dfa at best hope to win 5 seats. They submit a list with 6 people on it. They end up with 16.1% of the vote worth 8 councilors, so two posts are empty. There is no by election, those positions simply remain empty.

    It will become apparent in the senedd elections. Each constituency will have 6 members to elect, so each party will put up a list of 6 I presume. I assume there will be no by elections but will fill from their list, assuming the rest are still available.
    How does that work? Does each party can have a maximum of 6 members in the sennedd?
    No. In each constituency, each party that stands puts up a list of 6 names, in order. When a party is allocated a seat in the constituency it goes to the party list.

    Each constituency will have 6 Senedd members elected. The allocation is done by the d'Hondt method I think.

    There are 16 constituencies thus 96 members in all. Sadly the d'Hondt method has a de facto threshold of about 15%
  • MattWMattW Posts: 27,030
    Roger said:

    MattW said:

    Good mooring everyone *. A beautiful day here.

    * Typo. Except on the Erewash Canal.

    FPT: This from @Taz interests me:

    Taz said:

    Roger said:

    Being a saddo, I've just read the Hansard transcripts following Alexander's statement on the US deal. Most of the Tories who spoke were broadly supportive of it, recognising that we hadn't made concessions on farming standards, digital taxes or online safety. I'm not at all convinced that Kemi's view that we've been "shafted" is shared by many of her colleagues, which could spell trouble for her.
    For what it's worth, Douglas Alexander's responses to questions were quite impressive.

    Next Foreign Sec.

    Reshuffle this summer, although Lammy may last until next reshuffle.
    Two Labour MPs have been impressive this week. Douglas Alexander and Louise Haigh. I'd be happy to see either replace the pusillanimous Foreign Sec.
    How has Haigh been impressive ?
    How has she been impressive, @Roger. I can see some good fairly gentle challenges to the leadership to get their backside in gear on things like Council Tax Reform and more progressive taxation, which are strategic things most of us here want addressed even if we disagree on exact answers

    And a bit on her long term campaigns. And having a go at R4 for not being able to pronounce "Haigh" properly (like the WW1 General I think, not horse fodder).

    What else do we have?
    I knew nothing about this new Cabinet Minister with screaming red hair until she was fired for dishonesty. Then the other night I caught an episode of Newsnight and put the two characters together. She was bright sparky and with an attractive personality and SKS's apparently odd choice made sense.

    She has subsequently been on the radio several times because of the subject matter of this interview.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZ1WFi6Wd98
    Cheers. I've been following her for some time wearing my active travel hat, as she was showing signs of thinking carefully about strategic things such as road safety and some underlying issues such as a more realistic approach to how returns on transport projects were evaluated. That had potential to move the DoT on from being a "Department to Build Roads, which therefore builds roads" to something more balanced.

    She did a fair amount and had some good people in the policy side of here staff (source: Chris Boardman), so we'll see what emerges in the policy doc which is due soon. My perception of the new Transport Minister Heidi Wotsit is that she's more of a passenger than Louise Haigh had been.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,229
    edited 8:24AM

    The UK/US trade deal is actually fine for the UK.

    Essentially Donald is desperate for a deal - any deal - and we’ve taken advantage of that to avoid the worst of his so-called liberation tariffs.

    Kemi just looks like an opportunistic idiot. She’s simply not up to it, as predicted by anyone conscious of her lack of achievements in Cabinet.

    The Tories have nothing to offer. The only reason I can think of to vote for them might be that they are not Reforn. In a hypothetical Tory/Reform election, I would hold my nose and vote Tory.

    The deal is status is fiddling around plus accepting higher tariffs than previously existed in the US while not raising any of ours.

    Not really something to crow about. The only bright spot is reducing the tariff increases in several key U.K. export areas.
    I’m not crowing.

    I’m merely noting that the net effect is positive for the UK against what was in place a week ago, and the UK also gains modest diplomatic kudos for being first cab off the rank as it were.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,474
    kamski said:

    On the header, the fact that the winner was 50/1 doesn't mean that the betting market was wrong. 50/1 shots should and do win about 2% of the time, not because the markets are wrong, but that is what 50/1 means.

    It might have been wrong and he was always a more likely candidate (maybe even pre-ordained), but it could also have been that if you ran the process again he would mostly have come nowhere.

    It's hard to know if 50/1 shots do win about 2% of the time without doing some maths. It might be overall true, but I think the argument is that it might not be true for next pope markets, though I think you can make a better case for saying that the odds on the favourite were too short in a market which is essentially guesswork and has a large number of possible winners.

    There are probably not enough 'next pope' markets to do any analysis, but it might be that you could show that 'laying the favourite' could be a successful strategy on this kind of market - if you think markets like next Democratic presidential nominee, next Conservative leader, next Pope, can be lumped together...
    Plenty of research has been done to show 50/1 shots win about 2% of the time. If they won 1% of the time everyone would just lay them, if they won 3% of the time everyone would just back them.

    Within the basket of 50/1 bets there will be good and bad value individual bets but if you back a random mix of 1,000 50/1 bets you get on average around 20 winners.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 14,173
    isam said:

    isam said:

    Kemi keeps dropping words & phrases such as ‘shafted’, ‘half-arsed’ into the discourse, as well as telling Sir Keir ‘he doesn’t have the balls’ . Is it going to establish a view of her as straight talking, or rude? John Rentoul has noted his displeasure with it a couple of times

    Labour has blocked every single measure we’ve put forward to cut immigration and stop abuse of the system.

    Now they’re pushing one half-arsed proposal — it’s weak, it won’t work. It’s time they stopped playing games and backed our Deportation bill.

    https://x.com/kemibadenoch/status/1920739530862186504?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    If Boris said the same things, the people who moan about Kemi for this wouldn't give a shit.

    Her problem is that when she and her party were in charge their own work was half-arsed.
    I’d like her to do well, but I think she has a way of speaking that makes her sound a bit forced, especially when being controversial. I think you’re right though, imagining Boris saying the same things they don’t seem as bad. But Rentoul has called her out every time, and he wasn’t a Boris supporter
    Boris was (is?) a genius actor including in faking sincerity, so he almost never sounded forced; so got away usually with anything. His off the cuff style was scrupulously rehearsed. (Though when he froze, as in Peppa Pig speech, going off register, he was toe curling, which shows how much of a performance all this was. IIRC there is evidence from Jeremy Vine of how rehearsed and reheated the unrehearsed stuff was)

    Neither Kemi nor the PM have any of that. She did much better before being leader, seeming to be herself. Being herself, IMO, doesn't include even mild scatological language.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 983

    IanB2 said:

    If it were an insiders’ market, the graph wouldn’t look like that!

    Essentially it’s an unknown, black box of a market.

    Such a black box that the BBC made a fool of itself this morning

    They said “he doesn’t know any of the Cardinals… needs to introduce himself to the leading bishops”

    This was the man who was head of the house of bishops… and has just been elected pope…
    BBC presenters are increasingly badly briefed, the other day one asked the Indian interviewee why they'd bombed a dam then couldn't name the dam, ended up foolish and utterly gaslit. Then there's Justin Webb FFS.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,783
    Nigelb said:

    MattW said:

    The French are such amateurs, not a single duck house in sight.

    French MPs suspended for putting drugs and dating app on expenses

    Andy Kerbrat allegedly spent €25,000 on drugs while Christine Engrand, who joined a dating site for the over-fifties, says her new assistant is ‘only a friend’


    https://www.thetimes.com/world/europe/article/french-mps-suspended-putting-drugs-dating-app-expenses-720klgm5n

    That reminds me that I have a duck in my freezer, next to the partridges and the lobster.
    Several packs of frozen peas, and cranberries in mine.
    God alone knows what is in mine. It is the Wifey's exclusive domain. Various pots of unmarked sauces catapult out at me when I am rash enough to go have a peek (in case there might still be an ice cream loitering - there invariably isn't).

    If I'm lucky there might still be some of the highly recommended Lidl lobster tails in there.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,179

    Fishing said:

    I'm in Paris now. I watched the VE Day celebrations yesterday.

    I'm all for celebrating victory in Europe over vile Nazi scum.

    Laughable seeing the French pretend they had much to do with it though.

    The French had more involvement in World War II than we did. We only fought on one side, whereas they fought on two sides!
    I think the French had quite a lot of involvement with their Maquis and Mellice. I wonder if we would have fought as bravely if we'd been occupied.
    The Channel Islands suggest not.
    Oh god not this again. If you knew the CI you would get that there was no way they could resist. Nowhere to hide, no way of getting weapons in, huge ratio of Germans to islanders, even the couple of commando raids that the Brits did (nice of you to defend us btw) ended up with people being deported to concentration camps as reprisals.

    The UK would and could have resisted very well. The French can fuck themselves - if everyone who claimed to have been in the resistance after the war had been in the resistance the Germans wouldn’t have stood a chance - would have been the biggest army in the world.

    Them celebrating VE Day like they won is all a bit John Terry putting his kit on to celebrate winning a match he wasn’t even allowed to play in.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 4,581
    Dopermean said:

    IanB2 said:

    If it were an insiders’ market, the graph wouldn’t look like that!

    Essentially it’s an unknown, black box of a market.

    Such a black box that the BBC made a fool of itself this morning

    They said “he doesn’t know any of the Cardinals… needs to introduce himself to the leading bishops”

    This was the man who was head of the house of bishops… and has just been elected pope…
    BBC presenters are increasingly badly briefed, the other day one asked the Indian interviewee why they'd bombed a dam then couldn't name the dam, ended up foolish and utterly gaslit. Then there's Justin Webb FFS.
    Anyone who had something about them at the BBC have left. It wasn't what it was.
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