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America elected the dotard Donald Trump, you’ll never guess what happened next –politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,418
edited April 13 in General
America elected the dotard Donald Trump, you’ll never guess what happened next – politicalbetting.com

Today's University of Michigan consumer sentiment data shows:1. Republicans are more pessimistic about the economy than at any point in Trump's first term, aside from December 2020 (after Joe Biden won the election)2. Democrats *and Independents* are the most pessimistic on record

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • TazTaz Posts: 17,501
    First
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,501
    Too much winning from team Trump.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,454
    FPT:
    F1: I have, heroically, backed the man in the fastest car with the best tyre wear to do well on a circuit rough on tyres. Norris, each way, 6.5 (boosted from 6). I do think Piastri has this but Norris/Russell could have a good battle for 2nd.

    https://morrisf1.blogspot.com/2025/04/bahrain-grand-prix-2025-pre-race.html
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,575
    Taz said:

    Too much winning from team Trump.

    It's my fault, I was on the blower to Tim Cook of Apple telling them I would have stop buying Apple products if the tariffs kicked in and he then had a word with Trump, it would be a bad sign for Trump if Apple went bust on his watch.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,488
    edited April 13
    I wonder if Trump is going for a Nobel Economics Prize as well as the Nobel Peace Prize?

    He seems about as likely to get one as the other.

    And about as probable as winning the Literature Prize for his tweets.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 923

    But Republicans are still chirpier about the economy than at any point during the Biden years.

    OK, some of that is human nature. (See the posters here talking Britain down because Reeves is in charge.) But the partisan bubble effect in the States is scary to behold, and it's hard to see how they solve their problems while it stays in place.

    It would be useful to see sentiment plotted against actual performance. Perhaps GDP, Govt deficit and median net real income? Sentiment vs reality.
  • MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,861
    America’s problem is that they didn’t elect an administration. They elevated a cult.

    And no matter what damage the orange moron wreaks, I suspect the blame will go elsewhere.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,724
    DougSeal said:

    Taz said:

    Too much winning from team Trump.

    It's my fault, I was on the blower to Tim Cook of Apple telling them I would have stop buying Apple products if the tariffs kicked in and he then had a word with Trump, it would be a bad sign for Trump if Apple went bust on his watch.
    It wont happen but if China had any doubt which products to introduce export controls on, they do now.
    *don’t now” - sorry. Early.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,118
    edited April 13
    The 10 year US Treasury bond is probably the most important single bond in the world. Last Friday the return on that bond increased from 4.0 to 4.5%. This is a massive change for the gold standard of debt in a single day.

    It's why Trump panicked and reversed course once again on electronic tariffs. But the return did not fall. For a country as indebted as the US this is a disaster and it may very well cause a recession, making investment less attractive, mortgages more expensive and the outflow of cash from the US even higher. It also hurts us because our gilt rates tend to take their mark from the Treasury rates and our equivalent is now at 4.75%.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,454

    America’s problem is that they didn’t elect an administration. They elevated a cult.

    And no matter what damage the orange moron wreaks, I suspect the blame will go elsewhere.

    The blame will go to the Other. It's always Their fault.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,121
    I see Bernie Sanders had his Jeremy C at Glasto moment at Coachella yesterday
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,495

    But Republicans are still chirpier about the economy than at any point during the Biden years.

    OK, some of that is human nature. (See the posters here talking Britain down because Reeves is in charge.) But the partisan bubble effect in the States is scary to behold, and it's hard to see how they solve their problems while it stays in place.

    Looking at that chart, though, Democrat's sentiment on the economy is significantly less volatile - the red line goes both higher and lower - and far more closely correlated to what's actually going on.

    There's a chart somewhere, which I can't quickly find, that shows a significant bifurcation in GOP opinion. MAGA (the most committed 30% of voters) approval for Trump basically hasn't shifted, while that of the rest of the right is going steadily downward.

    It's not "the partisan bubble" so much as the Trump cult.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,118
    I note that with all of this going on in the world the number 1 read story on BBC is that Mickey Rourke has been ordered out of Big Brother.

    We're doomed.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,842

    America’s problem is that they didn’t elect an administration. They elevated a cult.

    And no matter what damage the orange moron wreaks, I suspect the blame will go elsewhere.

    Someone needs to infiltrate Fox News, Russian style. Canadian secret service perhaps. Find some kompromat on Rupert and send someone to pay him a visit.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,133

    DavidL said:

    I note that with all of this going on in the world the number 1 read story on BBC is that Mickey Rourke has been ordered out of Big Brother.

    We're doomed.

    How can Kemi Badenoch be seriously considered for Prime Minister - why did she not intervene ?
    She's too busy speaking up for those advocating arson and murder.

    https://bsky.app/profile/rolandmcs.bsky.social/post/3lmoghq66lk2f
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,495
    Dopermean said:

    But Republicans are still chirpier about the economy than at any point during the Biden years.

    OK, some of that is human nature. (See the posters here talking Britain down because Reeves is in charge.) But the partisan bubble effect in the States is scary to behold, and it's hard to see how they solve their problems while it stays in place.

    It would be useful to see sentiment plotted against actual performance. Perhaps GDP, Govt deficit and median net real income? Sentiment vs reality.
    One version of that here:
    https://x.com/mattyglesias/status/1911070431223701528
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,133
    DavidL said:

    The 10 year US Treasury bond is probably the most important single bond in the world. Last Friday the return on that bond increased from 4.0 to 4.5%. This is a massive change for the gold standard of debt in a single day.

    It's why Trump panicked and reversed course once again on electronic tariffs. But the return did not fall. For a country as indebted as the US this is a disaster and it may very well cause a recession, making investment less attractive, mortgages more expensive and the outflow of cash from the US even higher. It also hurts us because our gilt rates tend to take their mark from the Treasury rates and our equivalent is now at 4.75%.

    Is it Tariffwang that's driving up US Bond rates? Or is it simply unfunded tax cuts for oligarchs and a further rise in the debt ceiling?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,732
    edited April 13
    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    I note that with all of this going on in the world the number 1 read story on BBC is that Mickey Rourke has been ordered out of Big Brother.

    We're doomed.

    How can Kemi Badenoch be seriously considered for Prime Minister - why did she not intervene ?
    She's too busy speaking up for those advocating arson and murder.

    https://bsky.app/profile/rolandmcs.bsky.social/post/3lmoghq66lk2f
    The fact that you actually see that Tweet as a negative point against Badenoch, even on PB, quite something.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,133
    Nigelb said:

    Dopermean said:

    But Republicans are still chirpier about the economy than at any point during the Biden years.

    OK, some of that is human nature. (See the posters here talking Britain down because Reeves is in charge.) But the partisan bubble effect in the States is scary to behold, and it's hard to see how they solve their problems while it stays in place.

    It would be useful to see sentiment plotted against actual performance. Perhaps GDP, Govt deficit and median net real income? Sentiment vs reality.
    One version of that here:
    https://x.com/mattyglesias/status/1911070431223701528
    For Tariffs to ensure jobs in manufacturing with decent pay, insurance cover, paid holidays etc, doesn't America need strong Trade Unions?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,242
    edited April 13
    boulay said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @RpsAgainstTrump

    Andrew Sullivan: “Once you grasp Trump as an elected monarch, his full rebuke to the very idea of America comes into clearer view.

    He is precisely — almost uncannily — what this country was founded to oppose: an arbitrary, corrupt, mendacious, and utterly incompetent king

    https://x.com/RpsAgainstTrump/status/1911045496241537165

    I’m sure George III was not really any of those things, I would suggest in every way he was a better human being and leader than King Donald I.
    Not a high bar tbf. Even King John might clear it.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,133

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    I note that with all of this going on in the world the number 1 read story on BBC is that Mickey Rourke has been ordered out of Big Brother.

    We're doomed.

    How can Kemi Badenoch be seriously considered for Prime Minister - why did she not intervene ?
    She's too busy speaking up for those advocating arson and murder.

    https://bsky.app/profile/rolandmcs.bsky.social/post/3lmoghq66lk2f
    The fact that you actually see that Tweet, as a negative point against Badenoch, even on PB, quite something.
    Really?

    I think incitement to arson and murder in the midst of national rioting is a serious crime. Don't you?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,564
    edited April 13
    Good morning everyone.

    I like Biden's curve in graph two. It's like one of those slides that people in Sandbanks or Dore & Totley have dropping them into their private swimming pools.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,575
    DavidL said:

    I note that with all of this going on in the world the number 1 read story on BBC is that Mickey Rourke has been ordered out of Big Brother.

    We're doomed.

    The Sunday Times have a story which is much worse and confirms we're doomed.



    https://www.thetimes.com/life-style/beauty/article/mullet-mania-why-primary-school-boys-are-going-eighties-kmxfkmbvb
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,629
    DavidL said:

    I note that with all of this going on in the world the number 1 read story on BBC is that Mickey Rourke has been ordered out of Big Brother.

    We're doomed.

    I don’t know which is more surprising. Big Brother is still *a thing* or Mickey Rourke is still alive
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,575
    edited April 13
    For those advocating closer ties with China.

    A Liberal Democrat MP has been refused entry to Hong Kong to visit her newborn grandson.

    Wera Hobhouse, 65, flew to the Chinese region — a British territory until 1997 — on Thursday but was held at airport security, questioned and put on the first flight home five hours later.

    She had her passport confiscated, was asked about her job and purpose of her trip, had her luggage searched and swabbed, and was then escorted to the boarding gate by four immigration officers.

    Hobhouse said she had been “shocked” and was “very close to tears” when she was refused entry. She said she had not been able to hug her son who, was waiting for her in the arrivals hall. Hobhouse, elected in Bath in 2017, was given no explanation as to why her entry was refused but she believes it is because she is an MP.

    She is a member of the Inter-Parliamentary Alliance on China, an international group of politicians that scrutinises Beijing’s approach to human rights and the rules-based order. She has criticised the crackdown on free speech in Hong Kong.

    Members of a parliamentary committee were told they would be barred from Hong Kong when they announced they intended to visit in 2014 as part of an inquiry, but Hobhouse is the first MP known to have been refused entry on arrival since 1997.


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/mp-hong-kong-refused-lib-dem-wera-hobhouse-665bxxlrb
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,242

    DavidL said:

    I note that with all of this going on in the world the number 1 read story on BBC is that Mickey Rourke has been ordered out of Big Brother.

    We're doomed.

    The Sunday Times have a story which is much worse and confirms we're doomed.



    https://www.thetimes.com/life-style/beauty/article/mullet-mania-why-primary-school-boys-are-going-eighties-kmxfkmbvb
    Thank goodness (most of) the little feckers can’t grow a moustache. The mullet/‘tache combo is very popular round my bit.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,121

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    I note that with all of this going on in the world the number 1 read story on BBC is that Mickey Rourke has been ordered out of Big Brother.

    We're doomed.

    How can Kemi Badenoch be seriously considered for Prime Minister - why did she not intervene ?
    She's too busy speaking up for those advocating arson and murder.

    https://bsky.app/profile/rolandmcs.bsky.social/post/3lmoghq66lk2f
    The fact that you actually see that Tweet as a negative point against Badenoch, even on PB, quite something.
    She needs to get off the internet
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 40,017
    edited April 13
    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    The 10 year US Treasury bond is probably the most important single bond in the world. Last Friday the return on that bond increased from 4.0 to 4.5%. This is a massive change for the gold standard of debt in a single day.

    It's why Trump panicked and reversed course once again on electronic tariffs. But the return did not fall. For a country as indebted as the US this is a disaster and it may very well cause a recession, making investment less attractive, mortgages more expensive and the outflow of cash from the US even higher. It also hurts us because our gilt rates tend to take their mark from the Treasury rates and our equivalent is now at 4.75%.

    Is it Tariffwang that's driving up US Bond rates? Or is it simply unfunded tax cuts for oligarchs and a further rise in the debt ceiling?

    Multiple factors. This FT article is a great explainer:

    https://www.ft.com/content/fbe7ea0b-9738-4a34-b983-61747cef41e5

    Markets are about spreadsheets and numbers blinking on a screen, but they are also driven by nebulous things such as vibes and reputation. For the US, they rest on features that investors have never seriously questioned before: the rule of law, sensible policymaking and robust independent institutions. Trump has thrown all this into question.

    ...

    For decades, parking money in the US has been the routine, fuss-free, neutral option. Anything else requires more brain power, more analysis, more justification. This is breaking down. US Treasuries are behaving more like flighty, mildly adventurous UK gilts. Some are even comparing them to emerging market bonds: the “EM-ification” of the US is the big theme in market circles this week.



  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,629
    A Trumpite take on China. 6k Likes


    “1) Had a nice convo with a recently retired big CEO of a critical manufacturing company. He did a LOT of business with Chy-na. Was there many times.

    2) "Other than Shanghai and Hong Kong, this is a third world country. It is extremely poor in many places."”

    https://x.com/larryschwe94560/status/1911065619778425059?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    The whole long thread is almost completely delusional. It is describing China 20 years ago. See the telltale reference to “DVDs”

    DVDs??? China is now making humanoid robots for sale - better than any other country. It is AHEAD of the west in several major tech areas

    And yet these fools think it is basically the USSR with a couple of skyscrapers
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 40,017

    For those advocating closer ties with China.

    A Liberal Democrat MP has been refused entry to Hong Kong to visit her newborn grandson.

    Wera Hobhouse, 65, flew to the Chinese region — a British territory until 1997 — on Thursday but was held at airport security, questioned and put on the first flight home five hours later.

    She had her passport confiscated, was asked about her job and purpose of her trip, had her luggage searched and swabbed, and was then escorted to the boarding gate by four immigration officers.

    Hobhouse said she had been “shocked” and was “very close to tears” when she was refused entry. She said she had not been able to hug her son who, was waiting for her in the arrivals hall. Hobhouse, elected in Bath in 2017, was given no explanation as to why her entry was refused but she believes it is because she is an MP.

    She is a member of the Inter-Parliamentary Alliance on China, an international group of politicians that scrutinises Beijing’s approach to human rights and the rules-based order. She has criticised the crackdown on free speech in Hong Kong.

    Members of a parliamentary committee were told they would be barred from Hong Kong when they announced they intended to visit in 2014 as part of an inquiry, but Hobhouse is the first MP known to have been refused entry on arrival since 1997.


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/mp-hong-kong-refused-lib-dem-wera-hobhouse-665bxxlrb

    Kemi Badenoch is fine with this, presumably.

  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,564
    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    The 10 year US Treasury bond is probably the most important single bond in the world. Last Friday the return on that bond increased from 4.0 to 4.5%. This is a massive change for the gold standard of debt in a single day.

    It's why Trump panicked and reversed course once again on electronic tariffs. But the return did not fall. For a country as indebted as the US this is a disaster and it may very well cause a recession, making investment less attractive, mortgages more expensive and the outflow of cash from the US even higher. It also hurts us because our gilt rates tend to take their mark from the Treasury rates and our equivalent is now at 4.75%.

    Is it Tariffwang that's driving up US Bond rates? Or is it simply unfunded tax cuts for oligarchs and a further rise in the debt ceiling?
    Tariffwang sounds like a holiday resort on an old part of the coast of Sussex that might elect a Reform, or possibly a Green, MP.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 7,298
    edited April 13
    DavidL said:

    The 10 year US Treasury bond is probably the most important single bond in the world. Last Friday the return on that bond increased from 4.0 to 4.5%. This is a massive change for the gold standard of debt in a single day.

    It's why Trump panicked and reversed course once again on electronic tariffs. But the return did not fall. For a country as indebted as the US this is a disaster and it may very well cause a recession, making investment less attractive, mortgages more expensive and the outflow of cash from the US even higher. It also hurts us because our gilt rates tend to take their mark from the Treasury rates and our equivalent is now at 4.75%.

    This is the problem. It is not only the policy itself hurting the market, but also the arbitrary nature of Trump’s economic policy making.

    I suspect stocks will now recover, slowly (though it might take a lot of time for the market to return to where it was), assuming people can keep Trump away from putting more tariffs on, but that loss of confidence in the US Treasury is going to have a big lagging impact on wider economic performance for some time.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,629

    For those advocating closer ties with China.

    A Liberal Democrat MP has been refused entry to Hong Kong to visit her newborn grandson.

    Wera Hobhouse, 65, flew to the Chinese region — a British territory until 1997 — on Thursday but was held at airport security, questioned and put on the first flight home five hours later.

    She had her passport confiscated, was asked about her job and purpose of her trip, had her luggage searched and swabbed, and was then escorted to the boarding gate by four immigration officers.

    Hobhouse said she had been “shocked” and was “very close to tears” when she was refused entry. She said she had not been able to hug her son who, was waiting for her in the arrivals hall. Hobhouse, elected in Bath in 2017, was given no explanation as to why her entry was refused but she believes it is because she is an MP.

    She is a member of the Inter-Parliamentary Alliance on China, an international group of politicians that scrutinises Beijing’s approach to human rights and the rules-based order. She has criticised the crackdown on free speech in Hong Kong.

    Members of a parliamentary committee were told they would be barred from Hong Kong when they announced they intended to visit in 2014 as part of an inquiry, but Hobhouse is the first MP known to have been refused entry on arrival since 1997.


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/mp-hong-kong-refused-lib-dem-wera-hobhouse-665bxxlrb

    What a load of whining bollocks. How many right wing people has the UK piously refused to allow into the country - including politicians - because they offended Establishment Woke Sensitivities

    Remember Geert Wilders?

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/feb/12/far-right-dutch-mp-ban-islam

    Honestly. Western Hypocrisy - especially on “human rights “ - is becoming one of our worst traits
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,080
    MattW said:

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    The 10 year US Treasury bond is probably the most important single bond in the world. Last Friday the return on that bond increased from 4.0 to 4.5%. This is a massive change for the gold standard of debt in a single day.

    It's why Trump panicked and reversed course once again on electronic tariffs. But the return did not fall. For a country as indebted as the US this is a disaster and it may very well cause a recession, making investment less attractive, mortgages more expensive and the outflow of cash from the US even higher. It also hurts us because our gilt rates tend to take their mark from the Treasury rates and our equivalent is now at 4.75%.

    Is it Tariffwang that's driving up US Bond rates? Or is it simply unfunded tax cuts for oligarchs and a further rise in the debt ceiling?
    Tariffwang sounds like a holiday resort on an old part of the coast of Sussex that might elect a Reform, or possibly a Green, MP.
    It is a reference to the maths-based quiz show, Numberwang:-
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0obMRztklqU
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,575
    Leon said:

    For those advocating closer ties with China.

    A Liberal Democrat MP has been refused entry to Hong Kong to visit her newborn grandson.

    Wera Hobhouse, 65, flew to the Chinese region — a British territory until 1997 — on Thursday but was held at airport security, questioned and put on the first flight home five hours later.

    She had her passport confiscated, was asked about her job and purpose of her trip, had her luggage searched and swabbed, and was then escorted to the boarding gate by four immigration officers.

    Hobhouse said she had been “shocked” and was “very close to tears” when she was refused entry. She said she had not been able to hug her son who, was waiting for her in the arrivals hall. Hobhouse, elected in Bath in 2017, was given no explanation as to why her entry was refused but she believes it is because she is an MP.

    She is a member of the Inter-Parliamentary Alliance on China, an international group of politicians that scrutinises Beijing’s approach to human rights and the rules-based order. She has criticised the crackdown on free speech in Hong Kong.

    Members of a parliamentary committee were told they would be barred from Hong Kong when they announced they intended to visit in 2014 as part of an inquiry, but Hobhouse is the first MP known to have been refused entry on arrival since 1997.


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/mp-hong-kong-refused-lib-dem-wera-hobhouse-665bxxlrb

    What a load of whining bollocks. How many right wing people has the UK piously refused to allow into the country - including politicians - because they offended Establishment Woke Sensitivities

    Remember Geert Wilders?

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/feb/12/far-right-dutch-mp-ban-islam

    Honestly. Western Hypocrisy - especially on “human rights “ - is becoming one of our worst traits
    I see you are confirming your low IQ once again.

    If you think Geert Wilders and Wera Hobhouse are in the same league then you're family should launch an intervention and get lasting power of attorney over you.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,399
    DavidL said:

    I note that with all of this going on in the world the number 1 read story on BBC is that Mickey Rourke has been ordered out of Big Brother.

    We're doomed.

    BBC producers advance seamlessly from Blue Peter to World News
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,461
    Leon said:

    For those advocating closer ties with China.

    A Liberal Democrat MP has been refused entry to Hong Kong to visit her newborn grandson.

    Wera Hobhouse, 65, flew to the Chinese region — a British territory until 1997 — on Thursday but was held at airport security, questioned and put on the first flight home five hours later.

    She had her passport confiscated, was asked about her job and purpose of her trip, had her luggage searched and swabbed, and was then escorted to the boarding gate by four immigration officers.

    Hobhouse said she had been “shocked” and was “very close to tears” when she was refused entry. She said she had not been able to hug her son who, was waiting for her in the arrivals hall. Hobhouse, elected in Bath in 2017, was given no explanation as to why her entry was refused but she believes it is because she is an MP.

    She is a member of the Inter-Parliamentary Alliance on China, an international group of politicians that scrutinises Beijing’s approach to human rights and the rules-based order. She has criticised the crackdown on free speech in Hong Kong.

    Members of a parliamentary committee were told they would be barred from Hong Kong when they announced they intended to visit in 2014 as part of an inquiry, but Hobhouse is the first MP known to have been refused entry on arrival since 1997.


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/mp-hong-kong-refused-lib-dem-wera-hobhouse-665bxxlrb

    What a load of whining bollocks. How many right wing people has the UK piously refused to allow into the country - including politicians - because they offended Establishment Woke Sensitivities

    Remember Geert Wilders?

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/feb/12/far-right-dutch-mp-ban-islam

    Honestly. Western Hypocrisy - especially on “human rights “ - is becoming one of our worst traits
    Wera Hobhouse is MP for Bath. There is a lot of Bath-based wankery around 5G masts and Covid. More of a reason to bar her access.

    "if the world’s population is ever to accept the mass vaccination campaign we need to free us from the pandemic, a full-frontal assault on conspiracy theories will be essential.

    Instead of rebutting them, the Lib Dems have encouraged them. When 343 Bath residents objected to the council granting planning permission for the mast upgrade, Lib Dem councillors, with the support of Bath’s Lib Dem MP, Wera Hobhouse, decided to comply with the wishes of the dupes and cranks"

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/dec/26/why-would-the-lib-dems-hook-up-with-5g-cranks-it-can-only-be-cowardice
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,564

    MattW said:

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    The 10 year US Treasury bond is probably the most important single bond in the world. Last Friday the return on that bond increased from 4.0 to 4.5%. This is a massive change for the gold standard of debt in a single day.

    It's why Trump panicked and reversed course once again on electronic tariffs. But the return did not fall. For a country as indebted as the US this is a disaster and it may very well cause a recession, making investment less attractive, mortgages more expensive and the outflow of cash from the US even higher. It also hurts us because our gilt rates tend to take their mark from the Treasury rates and our equivalent is now at 4.75%.

    Is it Tariffwang that's driving up US Bond rates? Or is it simply unfunded tax cuts for oligarchs and a further rise in the debt ceiling?
    Tariffwang sounds like a holiday resort on an old part of the coast of Sussex that might elect a Reform, or possibly a Green, MP.
    It is a reference to the maths-based quiz show, Numberwang:-
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0obMRztklqU
    And there was me thinking Tolkien, and the Nindalf (or Wetwang).
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 40,017
    Leon said:

    A Trumpite take on China. 6k Likes


    “1) Had a nice convo with a recently retired big CEO of a critical manufacturing company. He did a LOT of business with Chy-na. Was there many times.

    2) "Other than Shanghai and Hong Kong, this is a third world country. It is extremely poor in many places."”

    https://x.com/larryschwe94560/status/1911065619778425059?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    The whole long thread is almost completely delusional. It is describing China 20 years ago. See the telltale reference to “DVDs”

    DVDs??? China is now making humanoid robots for sale - better than any other country. It is AHEAD of the west in several major tech areas

    And yet these fools think it is basically the USSR with a couple of skyscrapers

    It's delusion

    New research from the Australian Strategic Policy Institute (ASPI) shows that China is now leading the way in 57 out of the 64 technologies assessed by its Critical Technology Tracker, which has now been updated to cover the last 20 years.

    https://www.techradar.com/pro/china-leads-in-up-to-89-of-tech-research-study-shows

    The other delusion is that China did it all by stealing Western IP. This one is a massively harmful comfort blanket. They actually did it by planning long-term and investing shedloads of money in R&D. Until we acknowledge that, the Chinese will continue to power ahead.



  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,629

    Leon said:

    For those advocating closer ties with China.

    A Liberal Democrat MP has been refused entry to Hong Kong to visit her newborn grandson.

    Wera Hobhouse, 65, flew to the Chinese region — a British territory until 1997 — on Thursday but was held at airport security, questioned and put on the first flight home five hours later.

    She had her passport confiscated, was asked about her job and purpose of her trip, had her luggage searched and swabbed, and was then escorted to the boarding gate by four immigration officers.

    Hobhouse said she had been “shocked” and was “very close to tears” when she was refused entry. She said she had not been able to hug her son who, was waiting for her in the arrivals hall. Hobhouse, elected in Bath in 2017, was given no explanation as to why her entry was refused but she believes it is because she is an MP.

    She is a member of the Inter-Parliamentary Alliance on China, an international group of politicians that scrutinises Beijing’s approach to human rights and the rules-based order. She has criticised the crackdown on free speech in Hong Kong.

    Members of a parliamentary committee were told they would be barred from Hong Kong when they announced they intended to visit in 2014 as part of an inquiry, but Hobhouse is the first MP known to have been refused entry on arrival since 1997.


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/mp-hong-kong-refused-lib-dem-wera-hobhouse-665bxxlrb

    What a load of whining bollocks. How many right wing people has the UK piously refused to allow into the country - including politicians - because they offended Establishment Woke Sensitivities

    Remember Geert Wilders?

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/feb/12/far-right-dutch-mp-ban-islam

    Honestly. Western Hypocrisy - especially on “human rights “ - is becoming one of our worst traits
    I see you are confirming your low IQ once again.

    If you think Geert Wilders and Wera Hobhouse are in the same league then you're family should launch an intervention and get lasting power of attorney over you.
    They are both politicians. Both legally elected. Of the two Wilders is more important - and now leads the most popular party in democratic Holland

    It’s just that people like you don’t approve of one
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,564
    edited April 13
    FPT
    oniscoid said:

    vik said:

    ydoethur said:

    vik said:

    Barnesian said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Barnesian said:

    I think that Trump is going to be impeached after the midterms when the Democrats take the House (80% probability) but not convicted by the Senate unless the Democrats also take the Senate (30% probability).

    It is all but impossible for Trump be convicted by the Senate, because that requires 67 votes.

    Currently, the Democrats (including indoDems, Sanders and King) have 47.

    Therefore, the Democrats would need to *gain* 20 Senate seats at the midterms.

    There are 35 Senate races (33 regular and 2 special). But the Democrats already hold 13 of these. So there are 22 Republican seats up for election.

    *IF* the Democrats were to win every single one, that would get them to 69.

    But that would require them to win not just plausible (but difficult) States - like Alaska, Florida, Texas, Iowa, and Ohio - but also deep Red ones like:

    Arkansas
    Alabama
    Kansas
    Montana
    Idaho
    Kentucky
    Louisiana
    Mississippi
    West Virginia
    Wyoming
    and
    Oklahoma

    I mean: is it possible in a wave year that Kansas or Montana went Blue? Sure: but to get 67 seats in the Senate would require the Republicans to only hold two states.

    And I think that is unlikely to the point of near impossibility.
    I'm betting on him being impeached (I've got 2.65 on Betfair - great odds) but not on a conviction.
    The solution is not going to be the Democrats winning an impossible number of Senate seats at the midterms, as @rcs1000 notes.

    If there is a way for Trump to be removed, it will have to be *with* Republican votes. So, is there anything that will get Republicans to turn on Trump?
    If he does something clearly outrageous such as invading Canada or declaring himself President-for-Life, then there will be enough Republicans who will impeach and remove him.

    It's like the South Korean example. South Korean politics is as polarised as that of the USA, but Yoon's attempt to impose martial law was so outrageous that even members of his party voted for impeachment.
    Trump literally launched a coup and they still didn’t vote to impeach him. How much more outrageous do you want?

    The South Koreans removed and prosecuted their president for that, the Yanks first of all failed to deal with him through process, played silly buggers with court delays and then re-elected him.
    Yoon's coup was a lot more outrageous because not even his most partisan supporter could deny that it was a coup. He declared martial law & sent in army troops to try and occupy the legislature & arrest opposition politicians.

    Trump's coup, on the other hand, had an air of plausible deniability. For example, he only asked the crowd to march to the Capitol to demonstrate & also added that they march "peacefully". He could plausibly claim that he never asked the crowd to ransack the building.

    Looking at future scenarios, let's say Trump issues an executive order "cancelling" the 2028 elections because of some "emergency" and then ignores court orders and then orders troops to go out and stop people from voting. In that scenario, I am confident that he would be successfully impeached & convicted.

    If he just issues the executive order, but it is blocked by the courts, and then Trump just whines, but does nothing, then he'll be impeached but not convicted.
    given the unknown extent of infiltration of US law enforcement by MAGA supporters during the last five years, and bearing in mind Donald Trump's continuing replacement of judiciary and military officials, there is a question of how and indeed whether such a conviction would be enforceable, especially if he encouraged his supporters to 'protect' him
    I don't see how we can be certain that Trump would be impeached and convicted - we've been round that loop multiple times already. And the Republican Party in Congress is now full of Maga mushrooms and frightened conservatives, who are willing routinely to ignore the law and the constitution.

    On Scott's comment on law, there are serious problems within the setup of US Law Enforcement itself. For example Joe Arpaio had a record of offences for decades, and it took decades to bring him to account - eventually for criminal contempt. Then he got a Presidential Pardon within a month.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Arpaio

    A separate example is the law around permissible homicide by police officers, and those who kill people whilst they are on duty only being held accountable very rarely.
    https://www.vox.com/2014/8/13/5994305/legal-police-lethal-force-murder
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,088

    DavidL said:

    I note that with all of this going on in the world the number 1 read story on BBC is that Mickey Rourke has been ordered out of Big Brother.

    We're doomed.

    The Sunday Times have a story which is much worse and confirms we're doomed.



    https://www.thetimes.com/life-style/beauty/article/mullet-mania-why-primary-school-boys-are-going-eighties-kmxfkmbvb
    Thank goodness (most of) the little feckers can’t grow a moustache. The mullet/‘tache combo is very popular round my bit.
    Yes, a tragic number of chaps in their 20s trying to look exactly like Benson Boone with the curly mullet/tache combo.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,575
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    For those advocating closer ties with China.

    A Liberal Democrat MP has been refused entry to Hong Kong to visit her newborn grandson.

    Wera Hobhouse, 65, flew to the Chinese region — a British territory until 1997 — on Thursday but was held at airport security, questioned and put on the first flight home five hours later.

    She had her passport confiscated, was asked about her job and purpose of her trip, had her luggage searched and swabbed, and was then escorted to the boarding gate by four immigration officers.

    Hobhouse said she had been “shocked” and was “very close to tears” when she was refused entry. She said she had not been able to hug her son who, was waiting for her in the arrivals hall. Hobhouse, elected in Bath in 2017, was given no explanation as to why her entry was refused but she believes it is because she is an MP.

    She is a member of the Inter-Parliamentary Alliance on China, an international group of politicians that scrutinises Beijing’s approach to human rights and the rules-based order. She has criticised the crackdown on free speech in Hong Kong.

    Members of a parliamentary committee were told they would be barred from Hong Kong when they announced they intended to visit in 2014 as part of an inquiry, but Hobhouse is the first MP known to have been refused entry on arrival since 1997.


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/mp-hong-kong-refused-lib-dem-wera-hobhouse-665bxxlrb

    What a load of whining bollocks. How many right wing people has the UK piously refused to allow into the country - including politicians - because they offended Establishment Woke Sensitivities

    Remember Geert Wilders?

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/feb/12/far-right-dutch-mp-ban-islam

    Honestly. Western Hypocrisy - especially on “human rights “ - is becoming one of our worst traits
    I see you are confirming your low IQ once again.

    If you think Geert Wilders and Wera Hobhouse are in the same league then you're family should launch an intervention and get lasting power of attorney over you.
    They are both politicians. Both legally elected. Of the two Wilders is more important - and now leads the most popular party in democratic Holland

    It’s just that people like you don’t approve of one
    Well how can I refute the judgment of the guy who said Liz Truss would surprise on the upside.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,575

    MattW said:

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    The 10 year US Treasury bond is probably the most important single bond in the world. Last Friday the return on that bond increased from 4.0 to 4.5%. This is a massive change for the gold standard of debt in a single day.

    It's why Trump panicked and reversed course once again on electronic tariffs. But the return did not fall. For a country as indebted as the US this is a disaster and it may very well cause a recession, making investment less attractive, mortgages more expensive and the outflow of cash from the US even higher. It also hurts us because our gilt rates tend to take their mark from the Treasury rates and our equivalent is now at 4.75%.

    Is it Tariffwang that's driving up US Bond rates? Or is it simply unfunded tax cuts for oligarchs and a further rise in the debt ceiling?
    Tariffwang sounds like a holiday resort on an old part of the coast of Sussex that might elect a Reform, or possibly a Green, MP.
    It is a reference to the maths-based quiz show, Numberwang:-
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0obMRztklqU
    Because I am such a child, wang means something else.

    https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=wang
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,399

    DavidL said:

    I note that with all of this going on in the world the number 1 read story on BBC is that Mickey Rourke has been ordered out of Big Brother.

    We're doomed.

    How can Kemi Badenoch be seriously considered for Prime Minister - why did she not intervene ?
    After yesterdays showing she thought it best to keep her head down

    Being eviscerated by a trainee solicitor must have been embarrassing
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,629

    Leon said:

    A Trumpite take on China. 6k Likes


    “1) Had a nice convo with a recently retired big CEO of a critical manufacturing company. He did a LOT of business with Chy-na. Was there many times.

    2) "Other than Shanghai and Hong Kong, this is a third world country. It is extremely poor in many places."”

    https://x.com/larryschwe94560/status/1911065619778425059?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    The whole long thread is almost completely delusional. It is describing China 20 years ago. See the telltale reference to “DVDs”

    DVDs??? China is now making humanoid robots for sale - better than any other country. It is AHEAD of the west in several major tech areas

    And yet these fools think it is basically the USSR with a couple of skyscrapers

    It's delusion

    New research from the Australian Strategic Policy Institute (ASPI) shows that China is now leading the way in 57 out of the 64 technologies assessed by its Critical Technology Tracker, which has now been updated to cover the last 20 years.

    https://www.techradar.com/pro/china-leads-in-up-to-89-of-tech-research-study-shows

    The other delusion is that China did it all by stealing Western IP. This one is a massively harmful comfort blanket. They actually did it by planning long-term and investing shedloads of money in R&D. Until we acknowledge that, the Chinese will continue to power ahead.



    The theft of IP is the one accurate accusation in that thread. They did do a lot of that - but they don’t do so much any more, simply because they don’t have to. They are often ahead of us - as you note

    I think this bloke talked to some 80 year old exec who was last in China in 2003 (note he says his info source is “retired”)

    Anyone who’s spent more than an hour travelling around China in the last decade knows that this is all nonsense. And dangerous nonsense if it is believed by many in the USA
  • TresTres Posts: 2,812

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    I note that with all of this going on in the world the number 1 read story on BBC is that Mickey Rourke has been ordered out of Big Brother.

    We're doomed.

    How can Kemi Badenoch be seriously considered for Prime Minister - why did she not intervene ?
    She's too busy speaking up for those advocating arson and murder.

    https://bsky.app/profile/rolandmcs.bsky.social/post/3lmoghq66lk2f
    The fact that you actually see that Tweet as a negative point against Badenoch, even on PB, quite something.
    what do we want 'more hate speech', when do we want it, now!
  • stodgestodge Posts: 14,454

    Leon said:

    For those advocating closer ties with China.

    A Liberal Democrat MP has been refused entry to Hong Kong to visit her newborn grandson.

    Wera Hobhouse, 65, flew to the Chinese region — a British territory until 1997 — on Thursday but was held at airport security, questioned and put on the first flight home five hours later.

    She had her passport confiscated, was asked about her job and purpose of her trip, had her luggage searched and swabbed, and was then escorted to the boarding gate by four immigration officers.

    Hobhouse said she had been “shocked” and was “very close to tears” when she was refused entry. She said she had not been able to hug her son who, was waiting for her in the arrivals hall. Hobhouse, elected in Bath in 2017, was given no explanation as to why her entry was refused but she believes it is because she is an MP.

    She is a member of the Inter-Parliamentary Alliance on China, an international group of politicians that scrutinises Beijing’s approach to human rights and the rules-based order. She has criticised the crackdown on free speech in Hong Kong.

    Members of a parliamentary committee were told they would be barred from Hong Kong when they announced they intended to visit in 2014 as part of an inquiry, but Hobhouse is the first MP known to have been refused entry on arrival since 1997.


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/mp-hong-kong-refused-lib-dem-wera-hobhouse-665bxxlrb

    What a load of whining bollocks. How many right wing people has the UK piously refused to allow into the country - including politicians - because they offended Establishment Woke Sensitivities

    Remember Geert Wilders?

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/feb/12/far-right-dutch-mp-ban-islam

    Honestly. Western Hypocrisy - especially on “human rights “ - is becoming one of our worst traits
    Wera Hobhouse is MP for Bath. There is a lot of Bath-based wankery around 5G masts and Covid. More of a reason to bar her access.

    "if the world’s population is ever to accept the mass vaccination campaign we need to free us from the pandemic, a full-frontal assault on conspiracy theories will be essential.

    Instead of rebutting them, the Lib Dems have encouraged them. When 343 Bath residents objected to the council granting planning permission for the mast upgrade, Lib Dem councillors, with the support of Bath’s Lib Dem MP, Wera Hobhouse, decided to comply with the wishes of the dupes and cranks"

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/dec/26/why-would-the-lib-dems-hook-up-with-5g-cranks-it-can-only-be-cowardice
    Oddly enough, Bath was one of the LD's worst results last year. Obviously, the Conservatives were flattened into third place behind Labour but the Greens polled strongly in fourth. Not one of Reform's better results either,
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,399

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    I note that with all of this going on in the world the number 1 read story on BBC is that Mickey Rourke has been ordered out of Big Brother.

    We're doomed.

    How can Kemi Badenoch be seriously considered for Prime Minister - why did she not intervene ?
    She's too busy speaking up for those advocating arson and murder.

    https://bsky.app/profile/rolandmcs.bsky.social/post/3lmoghq66lk2f
    The fact that you actually see that Tweet as a negative point against Badenoch, even on PB, quite something.
    ....and you don't?
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 40,017
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    A Trumpite take on China. 6k Likes


    “1) Had a nice convo with a recently retired big CEO of a critical manufacturing company. He did a LOT of business with Chy-na. Was there many times.

    2) "Other than Shanghai and Hong Kong, this is a third world country. It is extremely poor in many places."”

    https://x.com/larryschwe94560/status/1911065619778425059?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    The whole long thread is almost completely delusional. It is describing China 20 years ago. See the telltale reference to “DVDs”

    DVDs??? China is now making humanoid robots for sale - better than any other country. It is AHEAD of the west in several major tech areas

    And yet these fools think it is basically the USSR with a couple of skyscrapers

    It's delusion

    New research from the Australian Strategic Policy Institute (ASPI) shows that China is now leading the way in 57 out of the 64 technologies assessed by its Critical Technology Tracker, which has now been updated to cover the last 20 years.

    https://www.techradar.com/pro/china-leads-in-up-to-89-of-tech-research-study-shows

    The other delusion is that China did it all by stealing Western IP. This one is a massively harmful comfort blanket. They actually did it by planning long-term and investing shedloads of money in R&D. Until we acknowledge that, the Chinese will continue to power ahead.



    The theft of IP is the one accurate accusation in that thread. They did do a lot of that - but they don’t do so much any more, simply because they don’t have to. They are often ahead of us - as you note

    I think this bloke talked to some 80 year old exec who was last in China in 2003 (note he says his info source is “retired”)

    Anyone who’s spent more than an hour travelling around China in the last decade knows that this is all nonsense. And dangerous nonsense if it is believed by many in the USA

    IP theft is a right of passage for all developing countries. The US did it in the 19th century, the Japanese after WW2, the Koreans in the 70s and 80s. Then you get to a point where, as you say, you don't have to do it anymore. Look at standardised mobility technology - the stuff the world relies on to talk interactively and which is hardwired into just about every developing sector you can think of: the Chinese dominate (along with Samsung, LG, Ericsson and Nokia) and, Qualcomm aside, the US is nowhere. Why? Because the margins are not seen as attractive enough to justify the effort. Companies like Apple, Meta, Google, Amazon, Uber, Twitter/X etc etc have outsourced the R&D to others and either license in or steal what they need. That will not change.

  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,080

    MattW said:

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    The 10 year US Treasury bond is probably the most important single bond in the world. Last Friday the return on that bond increased from 4.0 to 4.5%. This is a massive change for the gold standard of debt in a single day.

    It's why Trump panicked and reversed course once again on electronic tariffs. But the return did not fall. For a country as indebted as the US this is a disaster and it may very well cause a recession, making investment less attractive, mortgages more expensive and the outflow of cash from the US even higher. It also hurts us because our gilt rates tend to take their mark from the Treasury rates and our equivalent is now at 4.75%.

    Is it Tariffwang that's driving up US Bond rates? Or is it simply unfunded tax cuts for oligarchs and a further rise in the debt ceiling?
    Tariffwang sounds like a holiday resort on an old part of the coast of Sussex that might elect a Reform, or possibly a Green, MP.
    It is a reference to the maths-based quiz show, Numberwang:-
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0obMRztklqU
    Because I am such a child, wang means something else.

    https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=wang
    Please don't use the word ‘child’ in that context. Ofcom will close us down.
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,573
    Passenger numbers for newly opened Northumberland railway are five times those predicted: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c74nq19w100o

    & that’s with only half the stations open!

    Same thing happened with the Elizabeth Line too. Are the metrics the government uses to justify rail lines just fundamentally broken? Perhaps we should be building far more rail transport if the demand predictions are this out of whack.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,121
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    A Trumpite take on China. 6k Likes


    “1) Had a nice convo with a recently retired big CEO of a critical manufacturing company. He did a LOT of business with Chy-na. Was there many times.

    2) "Other than Shanghai and Hong Kong, this is a third world country. It is extremely poor in many places."”

    https://x.com/larryschwe94560/status/1911065619778425059?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    The whole long thread is almost completely delusional. It is describing China 20 years ago. See the telltale reference to “DVDs”

    DVDs??? China is now making humanoid robots for sale - better than any other country. It is AHEAD of the west in several major tech areas

    And yet these fools think it is basically the USSR with a couple of skyscrapers

    It's delusion

    New research from the Australian Strategic Policy Institute (ASPI) shows that China is now leading the way in 57 out of the 64 technologies assessed by its Critical Technology Tracker, which has now been updated to cover the last 20 years.

    https://www.techradar.com/pro/china-leads-in-up-to-89-of-tech-research-study-shows

    The other delusion is that China did it all by stealing Western IP. This one is a massively harmful comfort blanket. They actually did it by planning long-term and investing shedloads of money in R&D. Until we acknowledge that, the Chinese will continue to power ahead.



    The theft of IP is the one accurate accusation in that thread. They did do a lot of that - but they don’t do so much any more, simply because they don’t have to. They are often ahead of us - as you note

    I think this bloke talked to some 80 year old exec who was last in China in 2003 (note he says his info source is “retired”)

    Anyone who’s spent more than an hour travelling around China in the last decade knows that this is all nonsense. And dangerous nonsense if it is believed by many in the USA
    Reverse engineering existing technology is just good science. You think Apple and Samsung aren’t taking apart each other’s products? Why reinvent the wheel?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,454
    F1: not sure how much people care for commentary about this but I've made what i intend to be a last hedge (until things change substantially) on Piastri at 2.6. I'm green if he wins the title, a bit greener if he's top 3 because I backed him each way, and green if someone else wins.

    With him and Norris I don't think the odds will change all that much more. There's a risk at Spain (1 June, I think) the flexi-wing change will damage McLaren and perhaps advantage Red Bull. Hard to say how big the impact will be.

    I also bet against Norris a little at similar odds. This race might go well (but if it does that's fine, backed him at 6.5 each way). If it doesn't, his odds will lengthen. Be interesting to see if Russell or Verstappen can break into the McLaren duo's stranglehold on short title odds.

    The Mercedes engine is looking good for 2026 so unless Russell is in the fight the team may switch pretty quickly (I'm hoping I can hedge my 26 on him after a good performance today). Red Bull's looking poor so they may stick with developing this season's car longer than others as a potential final chance for another Verstappen title, and he won't face intra-team competition.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,629

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    A Trumpite take on China. 6k Likes


    “1) Had a nice convo with a recently retired big CEO of a critical manufacturing company. He did a LOT of business with Chy-na. Was there many times.

    2) "Other than Shanghai and Hong Kong, this is a third world country. It is extremely poor in many places."”

    https://x.com/larryschwe94560/status/1911065619778425059?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    The whole long thread is almost completely delusional. It is describing China 20 years ago. See the telltale reference to “DVDs”

    DVDs??? China is now making humanoid robots for sale - better than any other country. It is AHEAD of the west in several major tech areas

    And yet these fools think it is basically the USSR with a couple of skyscrapers

    It's delusion

    New research from the Australian Strategic Policy Institute (ASPI) shows that China is now leading the way in 57 out of the 64 technologies assessed by its Critical Technology Tracker, which has now been updated to cover the last 20 years.

    https://www.techradar.com/pro/china-leads-in-up-to-89-of-tech-research-study-shows

    The other delusion is that China did it all by stealing Western IP. This one is a massively harmful comfort blanket. They actually did it by planning long-term and investing shedloads of money in R&D. Until we acknowledge that, the Chinese will continue to power ahead.



    The theft of IP is the one accurate accusation in that thread. They did do a lot of that - but they don’t do so much any more, simply because they don’t have to. They are often ahead of us - as you note

    I think this bloke talked to some 80 year old exec who was last in China in 2003 (note he says his info source is “retired”)

    Anyone who’s spent more than an hour travelling around China in the last decade knows that this is all nonsense. And dangerous nonsense if it is believed by many in the USA

    IP theft is a right of passage for all developing countries. The US did it in the 19th century, the Japanese after WW2, the Koreans in the 70s and 80s. Then you get to a point where, as you say, you don't have to do it anymore. Look at standardised mobility technology - the stuff the world relies on to talk interactively and which is hardwired into just about every developing sector you can think of: the Chinese dominate (along with Samsung, LG, Ericsson and Nokia) and, Qualcomm aside, the US is nowhere. Why? Because the margins are not seen as attractive enough to justify the effort. Companies like Apple, Meta, Google, Amazon, Uber, Twitter/X etc etc have outsourced the R&D to others and either license in or steal what they need. That will not change.

    Indeed. To be fair some right wing Americans on X are pointing out that this is all misinformed gibberish, but it’s still disquieting that an apparently intelligent person can believe it - and persuade so many others

    It’s not even helpful for America as it is likely to make them complacent about Chinese rivalry - “they’re like the Soviet Union, no real threat”

    My guess is that it is driven my cognitive dissonance. America is being overtaken by China (Trump is a symptom of that, not a cause). Americans find this hard to take - they’ve been number 1 since 1945. It’s not in their mindset to be number 2. They can’t cope
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,573

    DavidL said:

    I note that with all of this going on in the world the number 1 read story on BBC is that Mickey Rourke has been ordered out of Big Brother.

    We're doomed.

    The Sunday Times have a story which is much worse and confirms we're doomed.



    https://www.thetimes.com/life-style/beauty/article/mullet-mania-why-primary-school-boys-are-going-eighties-kmxfkmbvb
    Thank goodness (most of) the little feckers can’t grow a moustache. The mullet/‘tache combo is very popular round my bit.
    Several of my son’s late teen friends have started sporting moustaches of dubious quality. I have kept my silence on their choice of facial hair :)
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,201
    edited April 13

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    I note that with all of this going on in the world the number 1 read story on BBC is that Mickey Rourke has been ordered out of Big Brother.

    We're doomed.

    How can Kemi Badenoch be seriously considered for Prime Minister - why did she not intervene ?
    She's too busy speaking up for those advocating arson and murder.

    https://bsky.app/profile/rolandmcs.bsky.social/post/3lmoghq66lk2f
    The fact that you actually see that Tweet as a negative point against Badenoch, even on PB, quite something.
    It was irony ( although there is more than a grain of truth about it).

    Go out and buy yourself a mild sense of humour.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,087
    On topic, the Sunday Rawnsley:

    The prime minister has told colleagues not to waste any time on feverish speculation about the intentions of the US president. This is sensible counsel after 10 days in which Typhoon Orange has wreaked havoc in global markets. Allies say he regards it as “a duty” to try to “get on with Trump”. “Don’t poke the beast” remains the watchword at Number 10, even as the beast rampages around chewing the legs off the global economy.

    Ministers appear increasingly pessimistic about negotiating away the 10% “baseline” tariff that has been imposed on Britain as it has been on most countries. “Tariffs are here for good,” remarks an official. The current focus is on trying to contain the damage threatened by elevated 25% tariffs on cars, steel and aluminium. Sir Keir hopes to attract credit for throwing lifelines to vulnerable industries, as the government did yesterday...

    Crisis can be an excuse to cower or it can be a spur to grasp opportunity. A growing number of Labour voices see an opening for the Starmer government to pivot towards Europe. The prime minister tells friends that the UK is being taken seriously by the rest of its continent in a way that it has not been for a decade. Trump, Ukraine and not treating the EU as an enemy have played roles in the rebuilding of bridges. But the fabled “reset” in relations with our closest neighbours has thus far produced more warm words than it has concrete agreements that could lift growth. To sense how the wind is shifting, keep a weather eye on the chancellor. In the run-up to next month’s important EU/UK summit, Ms Reeves has started using much sharper and more ambitious language about removing trade barriers with the union. “We’re getting more confident about how we talk about it in public,” says one cabinet member. Number 10 is wary of any move that might be depicted as “undoing Brexit”, but polling tells us that a chunky majority of Britons now devoutly wish that it could be undone. The perils posed to prosperity by Donald Trump make it more imperative to relieve the impediments to growth that Britain has inflicted upon itself.

    “Keep calm and carry on” has served Sir Keir well in the opening phases of this crisis. Bigger, bolder moves will be demanded of him before it is over.


  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 40,017

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    A Trumpite take on China. 6k Likes


    “1) Had a nice convo with a recently retired big CEO of a critical manufacturing company. He did a LOT of business with Chy-na. Was there many times.

    2) "Other than Shanghai and Hong Kong, this is a third world country. It is extremely poor in many places."”

    https://x.com/larryschwe94560/status/1911065619778425059?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    The whole long thread is almost completely delusional. It is describing China 20 years ago. See the telltale reference to “DVDs”

    DVDs??? China is now making humanoid robots for sale - better than any other country. It is AHEAD of the west in several major tech areas

    And yet these fools think it is basically the USSR with a couple of skyscrapers

    It's delusion

    New research from the Australian Strategic Policy Institute (ASPI) shows that China is now leading the way in 57 out of the 64 technologies assessed by its Critical Technology Tracker, which has now been updated to cover the last 20 years.

    https://www.techradar.com/pro/china-leads-in-up-to-89-of-tech-research-study-shows

    The other delusion is that China did it all by stealing Western IP. This one is a massively harmful comfort blanket. They actually did it by planning long-term and investing shedloads of money in R&D. Until we acknowledge that, the Chinese will continue to power ahead.



    The theft of IP is the one accurate accusation in that thread. They did do a lot of that - but they don’t do so much any more, simply because they don’t have to. They are often ahead of us - as you note

    I think this bloke talked to some 80 year old exec who was last in China in 2003 (note he says his info source is “retired”)

    Anyone who’s spent more than an hour travelling around China in the last decade knows that this is all nonsense. And dangerous nonsense if it is believed by many in the USA
    Reverse engineering existing technology is just good science. You think Apple and Samsung aren’t taking apart each other’s products? Why reinvent the wheel?

    IP theft only exists where IP does. For a long time, Western companies did not bother to register patents and trademarks in China. Therefore, they had no IP there. This is not to whitewash Chinese IP theft, but we need to get real about why China is storming ahead. We have basically allowed them to do it. Just as we allowed them to develop vital and deep trading links with so many countries in sub-Saharan Africa, South East Asia and Latin America. None of it was inevitable. The West was just massively, hubristically complacent.

  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,201

    MattW said:

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    The 10 year US Treasury bond is probably the most important single bond in the world. Last Friday the return on that bond increased from 4.0 to 4.5%. This is a massive change for the gold standard of debt in a single day.

    It's why Trump panicked and reversed course once again on electronic tariffs. But the return did not fall. For a country as indebted as the US this is a disaster and it may very well cause a recession, making investment less attractive, mortgages more expensive and the outflow of cash from the US even higher. It also hurts us because our gilt rates tend to take their mark from the Treasury rates and our equivalent is now at 4.75%.

    Is it Tariffwang that's driving up US Bond rates? Or is it simply unfunded tax cuts for oligarchs and a further rise in the debt ceiling?
    Tariffwang sounds like a holiday resort on an old part of the coast of Sussex that might elect a Reform, or possibly a Green, MP.
    It is a reference to the maths-based quiz show, Numberwang:-
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0obMRztklqU
    Because I am such a child, wang means something else.

    https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=wang
    How many different names do you Northerners have for the Southern todger/John Thomas/ Old Boy?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,133

    Leon said:

    A Trumpite take on China. 6k Likes


    “1) Had a nice convo with a recently retired big CEO of a critical manufacturing company. He did a LOT of business with Chy-na. Was there many times.

    2) "Other than Shanghai and Hong Kong, this is a third world country. It is extremely poor in many places."”

    https://x.com/larryschwe94560/status/1911065619778425059?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    The whole long thread is almost completely delusional. It is describing China 20 years ago. See the telltale reference to “DVDs”

    DVDs??? China is now making humanoid robots for sale - better than any other country. It is AHEAD of the west in several major tech areas

    And yet these fools think it is basically the USSR with a couple of skyscrapers

    It's delusion

    New research from the Australian Strategic Policy Institute (ASPI) shows that China is now leading the way in 57 out of the 64 technologies assessed by its Critical Technology Tracker, which has now been updated to cover the last 20 years.

    https://www.techradar.com/pro/china-leads-in-up-to-89-of-tech-research-study-shows

    The other delusion is that China did it all by stealing Western IP. This one is a massively harmful comfort blanket. They actually did it by planning long-term and investing shedloads of money in R&D. Until we acknowledge that, the Chinese will continue to power ahead.



    I think the number of Chinese postgraduate students overseas doing PhDs numbers into 6 figures, and heavily weighted to STEM subjects, and the vast majority return to China.

  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 29,817
    Phil said:

    DavidL said:

    I note that with all of this going on in the world the number 1 read story on BBC is that Mickey Rourke has been ordered out of Big Brother.

    We're doomed.

    The Sunday Times have a story which is much worse and confirms we're doomed.



    https://www.thetimes.com/life-style/beauty/article/mullet-mania-why-primary-school-boys-are-going-eighties-kmxfkmbvb
    Thank goodness (most of) the little feckers can’t grow a moustache. The mullet/‘tache combo is very popular round my bit.
    Several of my son’s late teen friends have started sporting moustaches of dubious quality. I have kept my silence on their choice of facial hair :)
    My 17 year-old son has been growing his tache since Christmas
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,629
    edited April 13
    I’m on an airline I’ve never used before. At Almaty airport, Kazakhstan

    It is literally called “shit” - SCAT Airlines

    If you don’t hear from me again then tell anyone who asks “well, he did voluntarily buy a ticket on Shit Airlines”. Follow it with a shrug

    Edit to add: I’ve just seen some SCAT employee open up a jet engine with a worried frown
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,553
    Leon said:

    For those advocating closer ties with China.

    A Liberal Democrat MP has been refused entry to Hong Kong to visit her newborn grandson.

    Wera Hobhouse, 65, flew to the Chinese region — a British territory until 1997 — on Thursday but was held at airport security, questioned and put on the first flight home five hours later.

    She had her passport confiscated, was asked about her job and purpose of her trip, had her luggage searched and swabbed, and was then escorted to the boarding gate by four immigration officers.

    Hobhouse said she had been “shocked” and was “very close to tears” when she was refused entry. She said she had not been able to hug her son who, was waiting for her in the arrivals hall. Hobhouse, elected in Bath in 2017, was given no explanation as to why her entry was refused but she believes it is because she is an MP.

    She is a member of the Inter-Parliamentary Alliance on China, an international group of politicians that scrutinises Beijing’s approach to human rights and the rules-based order. She has criticised the crackdown on free speech in Hong Kong.

    Members of a parliamentary committee were told they would be barred from Hong Kong when they announced they intended to visit in 2014 as part of an inquiry, but Hobhouse is the first MP known to have been refused entry on arrival since 1997.


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/mp-hong-kong-refused-lib-dem-wera-hobhouse-665bxxlrb

    What a load of whining bollocks. How many right wing people has the UK piously refused to allow into the country - including politicians - because they offended Establishment Woke Sensitivities

    Remember Geert Wilders?

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/feb/12/far-right-dutch-mp-ban-islam

    Honestly. Western Hypocrisy - especially on “human rights “ - is becoming one of our worst traits
    A putative Chinese equivalent to PB.com would be TOTALLY FUCKING BORING!

    "And in this week's Opinion Poll, the Chinese Communist Party achieved 99.9% approval! Exactly the same as last week's poll!" - Chinese TSE.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,553
    Leon said:

    I’m on an airline I’ve never used before. At Almaty airport, Kazakhstan

    It is literally called “shit” - SCAT Airlines

    If you don’t hear from me again then tell anyone who asks “well, he did voluntarily buy a ticket on Shit Airlines”. Follow it with a shrug

    Edit to add: I’ve just seen some SCAT employee open up a jet engine with a worried frown

    "Leon - told you I was ill!"
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,783
    Phil said:

    Passenger numbers for newly opened Northumberland railway are five times those predicted: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c74nq19w100o

    & that’s with only half the stations open!

    Same thing happened with the Elizabeth Line too. Are the metrics the government uses to justify rail lines just fundamentally broken? Perhaps we should be building far more rail transport if the demand predictions are this out of whack.

    Yea, they are. It's almost impossible to make a business case for rail under treasury green book rules.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,399
    Leon said:

    A Trumpite take on China. 6k Likes


    “1) Had a nice convo with a recently retired big CEO of a critical manufacturing company. He did a LOT of business with Chy-na. Was there many times.

    2) "Other than Shanghai and Hong Kong, this is a third world country. It is extremely poor in many places."”

    https://x.com/larryschwe94560/status/1911065619778425059?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    The whole long thread is almost completely delusional. It is describing China 20 years ago. See the telltale reference to “DVDs”

    DVDs??? China is now making humanoid robots for sale - better than any other country. It is AHEAD of the west in several major tech areas

    And yet these fools think it is basically the USSR with a couple of skyscrapers

    This chimes with a friend who now lives in China. He's a producer who sent me a film he made of the City he lives in and the closest I've seen to it is Luc Besson's Fifth Element
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,080

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    A Trumpite take on China. 6k Likes


    “1) Had a nice convo with a recently retired big CEO of a critical manufacturing company. He did a LOT of business with Chy-na. Was there many times.

    2) "Other than Shanghai and Hong Kong, this is a third world country. It is extremely poor in many places."”

    https://x.com/larryschwe94560/status/1911065619778425059?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    The whole long thread is almost completely delusional. It is describing China 20 years ago. See the telltale reference to “DVDs”

    DVDs??? China is now making humanoid robots for sale - better than any other country. It is AHEAD of the west in several major tech areas

    And yet these fools think it is basically the USSR with a couple of skyscrapers

    It's delusion

    New research from the Australian Strategic Policy Institute (ASPI) shows that China is now leading the way in 57 out of the 64 technologies assessed by its Critical Technology Tracker, which has now been updated to cover the last 20 years.

    https://www.techradar.com/pro/china-leads-in-up-to-89-of-tech-research-study-shows

    The other delusion is that China did it all by stealing Western IP. This one is a massively harmful comfort blanket. They actually did it by planning long-term and investing shedloads of money in R&D. Until we acknowledge that, the Chinese will continue to power ahead.



    The theft of IP is the one accurate accusation in that thread. They did do a lot of that - but they don’t do so much any more, simply because they don’t have to. They are often ahead of us - as you note

    I think this bloke talked to some 80 year old exec who was last in China in 2003 (note he says his info source is “retired”)

    Anyone who’s spent more than an hour travelling around China in the last decade knows that this is all nonsense. And dangerous nonsense if it is believed by many in the USA
    Reverse engineering existing technology is just good science. You think Apple and Samsung aren’t taking apart each other’s products? Why reinvent the wheel?

    IP theft only exists where IP does. For a long time, Western companies did not bother to register patents and trademarks in China. Therefore, they had no IP there. This is not to whitewash Chinese IP theft, but we need to get real about why China is storming ahead. We have basically allowed them to do it. Just as we allowed them to develop vital and deep trading links with so many countries in sub-Saharan Africa, South East Asia and Latin America. None of it was inevitable. The West was just massively, hubristically complacent.

    It is not just IP. Western companies opening factories in China showed the Chinese how to, well, build and run whole industries, with factories, production lines and supply chains. America inadvertently did for China what, after the second world war, it had intentionally done for Japan.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,306

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    A Trumpite take on China. 6k Likes


    “1) Had a nice convo with a recently retired big CEO of a critical manufacturing company. He did a LOT of business with Chy-na. Was there many times.

    2) "Other than Shanghai and Hong Kong, this is a third world country. It is extremely poor in many places."”

    https://x.com/larryschwe94560/status/1911065619778425059?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    The whole long thread is almost completely delusional. It is describing China 20 years ago. See the telltale reference to “DVDs”

    DVDs??? China is now making humanoid robots for sale - better than any other country. It is AHEAD of the west in several major tech areas

    And yet these fools think it is basically the USSR with a couple of skyscrapers

    It's delusion

    New research from the Australian Strategic Policy Institute (ASPI) shows that China is now leading the way in 57 out of the 64 technologies assessed by its Critical Technology Tracker, which has now been updated to cover the last 20 years.

    https://www.techradar.com/pro/china-leads-in-up-to-89-of-tech-research-study-shows

    The other delusion is that China did it all by stealing Western IP. This one is a massively harmful comfort blanket. They actually did it by planning long-term and investing shedloads of money in R&D. Until we acknowledge that, the Chinese will continue to power ahead.



    The theft of IP is the one accurate accusation in that thread. They did do a lot of that - but they don’t do so much any more, simply because they don’t have to. They are often ahead of us - as you note

    I think this bloke talked to some 80 year old exec who was last in China in 2003 (note he says his info source is “retired”)

    Anyone who’s spent more than an hour travelling around China in the last decade knows that this is all nonsense. And dangerous nonsense if it is believed by many in the USA
    Reverse engineering existing technology is just good science. You think Apple and Samsung aren’t taking apart each other’s products? Why reinvent the wheel?

    IP theft only exists where IP does. For a long time, Western companies did not bother to register patents and trademarks in China. Therefore, they had no IP there. This is not to whitewash Chinese IP theft, but we need to get real about why China is storming ahead. We have basically allowed them to do it. Just as we allowed them to develop vital and deep trading links with so many countries in sub-Saharan Africa, South East Asia and Latin America. None of it was inevitable. The West was just massively, hubristically complacent.

    It is not just IP. Western companies opening factories in China showed the Chinese how to, well, build and run whole industries, with factories, production lines and supply chains. America inadvertently did for China what, after the second world war, it had intentionally done for Japan.
    Interestingly enough, exactly what western firms did in the USSR in the 1930s.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,454
    AnneJGP said:

    F1: not sure how much people care for commentary about this but I've made what i intend to be a last hedge (until things change substantially) on Piastri at 2.6. I'm green if he wins the title, a bit greener if he's top 3 because I backed him each way, and green if someone else wins.

    With him and Norris I don't think the odds will change all that much more. There's a risk at Spain (1 June, I think) the flexi-wing change will damage McLaren and perhaps advantage Red Bull. Hard to say how big the impact will be.

    I also bet against Norris a little at similar odds. This race might go well (but if it does that's fine, backed him at 6.5 each way). If it doesn't, his odds will lengthen. Be interesting to see if Russell or Verstappen can break into the McLaren duo's stranglehold on short title odds.

    The Mercedes engine is looking good for 2026 so unless Russell is in the fight the team may switch pretty quickly (I'm hoping I can hedge my 26 on him after a good performance today). Red Bull's looking poor so they may stick with developing this season's car longer than others as a potential final chance for another Verstappen title, and he won't face intra-team competition.

    I am very grateful for your covering of F1, because a friend of mine is a terrific fan. It's not an interest of mine and your comments help me to (a) understand what she's talking about and (b) respond with some semblance of intelligent interest.

    Many thanks!
    You're more than welcome :)

    One difference this year is that it's the last with this set of regulations and next year there are substantial changes. This means most teams will switch development to the 2026 car way earlier than usual as starting a regulatory era well can lead to a position of dominance and repeated wins.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,553
    Roger said:

    Leon said:

    A Trumpite take on China. 6k Likes


    “1) Had a nice convo with a recently retired big CEO of a critical manufacturing company. He did a LOT of business with Chy-na. Was there many times.

    2) "Other than Shanghai and Hong Kong, this is a third world country. It is extremely poor in many places."”

    https://x.com/larryschwe94560/status/1911065619778425059?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    The whole long thread is almost completely delusional. It is describing China 20 years ago. See the telltale reference to “DVDs”

    DVDs??? China is now making humanoid robots for sale - better than any other country. It is AHEAD of the west in several major tech areas

    And yet these fools think it is basically the USSR with a couple of skyscrapers

    This chimes with a friend who now lives in China. He's a producer who sent me a film he made of the City he lives in and the closest I've seen to it is Luc Besson's Fifth Element
    "MULTI-PASS!!!!"
  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 4,962

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    I note that with all of this going on in the world the number 1 read story on BBC is that Mickey Rourke has been ordered out of Big Brother.

    We're doomed.

    How can Kemi Badenoch be seriously considered for Prime Minister - why did she not intervene ?
    She's too busy speaking up for those advocating arson and murder.

    https://bsky.app/profile/rolandmcs.bsky.social/post/3lmoghq66lk2f
    The fact that you actually see that Tweet as a negative point against Badenoch, even on PB, quite something.
    She needs to get off the internet
    And on to a paddle board.
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,080
    PB brains trust: Have any one you stayed over on the Isle of Wight? Any recommendations for a decent hotel for a 3-4 day break (a family of three)?
  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 4,962

    Phil said:

    Passenger numbers for newly opened Northumberland railway are five times those predicted: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c74nq19w100o

    & that’s with only half the stations open!

    Same thing happened with the Elizabeth Line too. Are the metrics the government uses to justify rail lines just fundamentally broken? Perhaps we should be building far more rail transport if the demand predictions are this out of whack.

    It’s mad because the business case didn’t support dual lines so of course the line is now heavily limited for future capacity expansion because of that
    Same thing happened with the motorways which were built as 2-lane and then had to be widened at vast expense to be 3-lane.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,553
    edited April 13
    Phil said:

    Passenger numbers for newly opened Northumberland railway are five times those predicted: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c74nq19w100o

    & that’s with only half the stations open!

    Same thing happened with the Elizabeth Line too. Are the metrics the government uses to justify rail lines just fundamentally broken? Perhaps we should be building far more rail transport if the demand predictions are this out of whack.

    Went to Ashington in January, back then Seaton Delaval was the only intermediate stop!
  • Phil said:

    Passenger numbers for newly opened Northumberland railway are five times those predicted: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c74nq19w100o

    & that’s with only half the stations open!

    Same thing happened with the Elizabeth Line too. Are the metrics the government uses to justify rail lines just fundamentally broken? Perhaps we should be building far more rail transport if the demand predictions are this out of whack.

    They probably are. HS 2 would have taken far more passengers than predicted as well. As a senior citizen I can do a cheap day return from Garsdale to Wakefield for under £20, and regularly do. Free parking at Garsdale, no worries. How could I do that by car ?
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,573
    Cookie said:

    Phil said:

    Passenger numbers for newly opened Northumberland railway are five times those predicted: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c74nq19w100o

    & that’s with only half the stations open!

    Same thing happened with the Elizabeth Line too. Are the metrics the government uses to justify rail lines just fundamentally broken? Perhaps we should be building far more rail transport if the demand predictions are this out of whack.

    Yea, they are. It's almost impossible to make a business case for rail under treasury green book rules.
    Does the same go for new roads, or are road projects somehow different?

    (The total lack of major roadbuilding in the north implies that the same problem exists there too tbh.)
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,306
    Roger said:

    Leon said:

    A Trumpite take on China. 6k Likes


    “1) Had a nice convo with a recently retired big CEO of a critical manufacturing company. He did a LOT of business with Chy-na. Was there many times.

    2) "Other than Shanghai and Hong Kong, this is a third world country. It is extremely poor in many places."”

    https://x.com/larryschwe94560/status/1911065619778425059?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    The whole long thread is almost completely delusional. It is describing China 20 years ago. See the telltale reference to “DVDs”

    DVDs??? China is now making humanoid robots for sale - better than any other country. It is AHEAD of the west in several major tech areas

    And yet these fools think it is basically the USSR with a couple of skyscrapers

    This chimes with a friend who now lives in China. He's a producer who sent me a film he made of the City he lives in and the closest I've seen to it is Luc Besson's Fifth Element
    China is a place with vast riches and vast poverty. In that, it is like many countries, especially larger ones. Life in Manhattan or the City of London is very different from life in Whitley City or Jaywick. Fucker Carlson and some other pro-Russia @sshats like showing videos of central Moscow and St Petersberg as examples of how well Russians live; videos that are not exactly typical for the Russian population.

    A major difference is that millions of people in China have been lifted out of (relative) poverty in just a few decades, often by moving to the large cities, as happened here in the 1800s. But there were significant costs in that process, and the Chinese population will probably mostly remain compliant as long as living standards continue to increase. It will be interesting to see what happens when living standards stop increasing, or even decline.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,461
    edited April 13

    Leon said:

    For those advocating closer ties with China.

    A Liberal Democrat MP has been refused entry to Hong Kong to visit her newborn grandson.

    Wera Hobhouse, 65, flew to the Chinese region — a British territory until 1997 — on Thursday but was held at airport security, questioned and put on the first flight home five hours later.

    She had her passport confiscated, was asked about her job and purpose of her trip, had her luggage searched and swabbed, and was then escorted to the boarding gate by four immigration officers.

    Hobhouse said she had been “shocked” and was “very close to tears” when she was refused entry. She said she had not been able to hug her son who, was waiting for her in the arrivals hall. Hobhouse, elected in Bath in 2017, was given no explanation as to why her entry was refused but she believes it is because she is an MP.

    She is a member of the Inter-Parliamentary Alliance on China, an international group of politicians that scrutinises Beijing’s approach to human rights and the rules-based order. She has criticised the crackdown on free speech in Hong Kong.

    Members of a parliamentary committee were told they would be barred from Hong Kong when they announced they intended to visit in 2014 as part of an inquiry, but Hobhouse is the first MP known to have been refused entry on arrival since 1997.


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/mp-hong-kong-refused-lib-dem-wera-hobhouse-665bxxlrb

    What a load of whining bollocks. How many right wing people has the UK piously refused to allow into the country - including politicians - because they offended Establishment Woke Sensitivities

    Remember Geert Wilders?

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/feb/12/far-right-dutch-mp-ban-islam

    Honestly. Western Hypocrisy - especially on “human rights “ - is becoming one of our worst traits
    A putative Chinese equivalent to PB.com would be TOTALLY FUCKING BORING!

    "And in this week's Opinion Poll, the Chinese Communist Party achieved 99.9% approval! Exactly the same as last week's poll!" - Chinese TSE.
    The 0.1% would be easy to find. They'd all be on Chinese equivalent pb.com...
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,306

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    A Trumpite take on China. 6k Likes


    “1) Had a nice convo with a recently retired big CEO of a critical manufacturing company. He did a LOT of business with Chy-na. Was there many times.

    2) "Other than Shanghai and Hong Kong, this is a third world country. It is extremely poor in many places."”

    https://x.com/larryschwe94560/status/1911065619778425059?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    The whole long thread is almost completely delusional. It is describing China 20 years ago. See the telltale reference to “DVDs”

    DVDs??? China is now making humanoid robots for sale - better than any other country. It is AHEAD of the west in several major tech areas

    And yet these fools think it is basically the USSR with a couple of skyscrapers

    It's delusion

    New research from the Australian Strategic Policy Institute (ASPI) shows that China is now leading the way in 57 out of the 64 technologies assessed by its Critical Technology Tracker, which has now been updated to cover the last 20 years.

    https://www.techradar.com/pro/china-leads-in-up-to-89-of-tech-research-study-shows

    The other delusion is that China did it all by stealing Western IP. This one is a massively harmful comfort blanket. They actually did it by planning long-term and investing shedloads of money in R&D. Until we acknowledge that, the Chinese will continue to power ahead.



    The theft of IP is the one accurate accusation in that thread. They did do a lot of that - but they don’t do so much any more, simply because they don’t have to. They are often ahead of us - as you note

    I think this bloke talked to some 80 year old exec who was last in China in 2003 (note he says his info source is “retired”)

    Anyone who’s spent more than an hour travelling around China in the last decade knows that this is all nonsense. And dangerous nonsense if it is believed by many in the USA
    Reverse engineering existing technology is just good science. You think Apple and Samsung aren’t taking apart each other’s products? Why reinvent the wheel?

    IP theft only exists where IP does. For a long time, Western companies did not bother to register patents and trademarks in China. Therefore, they had no IP there. This is not to whitewash Chinese IP theft, but we need to get real about why China is storming ahead. We have basically allowed them to do it. Just as we allowed them to develop vital and deep trading links with so many countries in sub-Saharan Africa, South East Asia and Latin America. None of it was inevitable. The West was just massively, hubristically complacent.
    The problem is large western companies steal IP all the time as well. If you're a small company that has a great tech idea, patents are essentially useless when the likes of Apple, MS, Oracle, Broadcom, Qualcomm etc come along and just use the tech anyway...
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,573
    The Thirlwall Inquiry may have ended up being of more benefit to the “Letby Truthers” than to the reputation of the Cheshire constabulary: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14603131/Lucy-Letby-freed-bombshell-email-casts-doubt-court-claim-nurse-caught-red-handed.html

    (Obviously downgrade the usual DM hyperbolic headline to something more reasonable, but had her defence known about this email they would surely have used it to undermine the testimony of a major prosecution witness. Assuming they didn’t know about of course...)
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,080

    Roger said:

    Leon said:

    A Trumpite take on China. 6k Likes


    “1) Had a nice convo with a recently retired big CEO of a critical manufacturing company. He did a LOT of business with Chy-na. Was there many times.

    2) "Other than Shanghai and Hong Kong, this is a third world country. It is extremely poor in many places."”

    https://x.com/larryschwe94560/status/1911065619778425059?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    The whole long thread is almost completely delusional. It is describing China 20 years ago. See the telltale reference to “DVDs”

    DVDs??? China is now making humanoid robots for sale - better than any other country. It is AHEAD of the west in several major tech areas

    And yet these fools think it is basically the USSR with a couple of skyscrapers

    This chimes with a friend who now lives in China. He's a producer who sent me a film he made of the City he lives in and the closest I've seen to it is Luc Besson's Fifth Element
    China is a place with vast riches and vast poverty. In that, it is like many countries, especially larger ones. Life in Manhattan or the City of London is very different from life in Whitley City or Jaywick. Fucker Carlson and some other pro-Russia @sshats like showing videos of central Moscow and St Petersberg as examples of how well Russians live; videos that are not exactly typical for the Russian population.

    A major difference is that millions of people in China have been lifted out of (relative) poverty in just a few decades, often by moving to the large cities, as happened here in the 1800s. But there were significant costs in that process, and the Chinese population will probably mostly remain compliant as long as living standards continue to increase. It will be interesting to see what happens when living standards stop increasing, or even decline.
    The fear is, of course, that in place of ever-rising living standards (or anything like democracy) China's rulers will play the nationalist card and move to capture either Taiwan or most of Siberia (Outer Manchuria, once part of China).
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,461
    Leon said:

    I’m on an airline I’ve never used before. At Almaty airport, Kazakhstan

    It is literally called “shit” - SCAT Airlines

    If you don’t hear from me again then tell anyone who asks “well, he did voluntarily buy a ticket on Shit Airlines”. Follow it with a shrug

    Edit to add: I’ve just seen some SCAT employee open up a jet engine with a worried frown

    Was once on a very shiny new 747 flying out of Bangkok. Up in the bump at the top.

    There was an enormous delay to take off. Eventually, a little Thai chap in overalls came in and starting lookig in the bins under the windows. With a little grunt of satisfaction, he found a giant volume like one of those wallpaper books. He started flicking through it and eventually there was another little grunt of satisfaction. He put back the giant volume, which was effectively "Welcome to your 747!"

    Turns out the plane was so shiny and new, they didn't know where the fuel filler release was.

    Which was slightly concerning. Sure you've got the hang of how to work the bits that make the wing flaps flap, driver? Wheels go up and down? Door lock for the outside toilet?
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,063

    Phil said:

    Passenger numbers for newly opened Northumberland railway are five times those predicted: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c74nq19w100o

    & that’s with only half the stations open!

    Same thing happened with the Elizabeth Line too. Are the metrics the government uses to justify rail lines just fundamentally broken? Perhaps we should be building far more rail transport if the demand predictions are this out of whack.

    It’s mad because the business case didn’t support dual lines so of course the line is now heavily limited for future capacity expansion because of that
    Same thing happened with the motorways which were built as 2-lane and then had to be widened at vast expense to be 3-lane.
    I hope the analysts doing the modelling are not simply using their best guess forecasts i.e. the mean of the probability distribution.

    Very often the cost of getting capacity wrong on the upside (cost of upgrading or cost of lack of capacity) is much greater than getting it wrong on the downside (wasted construction cost) so the optimal capacity is greater (sometimes much greater) than the forecast mean.

    Should you plan to get to the airport just in time given the uncertainty about traffic conditions on the way. Answer no. You should plan to get there in plenty of time because the cost of hanging around the airport is much less than the cost of missing your plane. Same principle.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,461

    Roger said:

    Leon said:

    A Trumpite take on China. 6k Likes


    “1) Had a nice convo with a recently retired big CEO of a critical manufacturing company. He did a LOT of business with Chy-na. Was there many times.

    2) "Other than Shanghai and Hong Kong, this is a third world country. It is extremely poor in many places."”

    https://x.com/larryschwe94560/status/1911065619778425059?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    The whole long thread is almost completely delusional. It is describing China 20 years ago. See the telltale reference to “DVDs”

    DVDs??? China is now making humanoid robots for sale - better than any other country. It is AHEAD of the west in several major tech areas

    And yet these fools think it is basically the USSR with a couple of skyscrapers

    This chimes with a friend who now lives in China. He's a producer who sent me a film he made of the City he lives in and the closest I've seen to it is Luc Besson's Fifth Element
    China is a place with vast riches and vast poverty. In that, it is like many countries, especially larger ones. Life in Manhattan or the City of London is very different from life in Whitley City or Jaywick. Fucker Carlson and some other pro-Russia @sshats like showing videos of central Moscow and St Petersberg as examples of how well Russians live; videos that are not exactly typical for the Russian population.

    A major difference is that millions of people in China have been lifted out of (relative) poverty in just a few decades, often by moving to the large cities, as happened here in the 1800s. But there were significant costs in that process, and the Chinese population will probably mostly remain compliant as long as living standards continue to increase. It will be interesting to see what happens when living standards stop increasing, or even decline.
    They'll vote Reform...
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,461
    Roger said:

    Leon said:

    A Trumpite take on China. 6k Likes


    “1) Had a nice convo with a recently retired big CEO of a critical manufacturing company. He did a LOT of business with Chy-na. Was there many times.

    2) "Other than Shanghai and Hong Kong, this is a third world country. It is extremely poor in many places."”

    https://x.com/larryschwe94560/status/1911065619778425059?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    The whole long thread is almost completely delusional. It is describing China 20 years ago. See the telltale reference to “DVDs”

    DVDs??? China is now making humanoid robots for sale - better than any other country. It is AHEAD of the west in several major tech areas

    And yet these fools think it is basically the USSR with a couple of skyscrapers

    This chimes with a friend who now lives in China. He's a producer who sent me a film he made of the City he lives in and the closest I've seen to it is Luc Besson's Fifth Element
    One of my favourite films. Shows what great sci-fi can be when prised out of Hollywood's hands.

    Not sure it would show the Chinese in the best light if that close though!
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,724
    murali_s said:

    PB brains trust: Have any one you stayed over on the Isle of Wight? Any recommendations for a decent hotel for a 3-4 day break (a family of three)?

    While I was a small child in the early 80s our family holiday, for three or four years running (felt like more) was to the Royal Hotel in Ventnor. No idea what it's like now. It was a Trust House Forte hotel back then. The height of sophistication.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,580
    Phil said:

    Cookie said:

    Phil said:

    Passenger numbers for newly opened Northumberland railway are five times those predicted: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c74nq19w100o

    & that’s with only half the stations open!

    Same thing happened with the Elizabeth Line too. Are the metrics the government uses to justify rail lines just fundamentally broken? Perhaps we should be building far more rail transport if the demand predictions are this out of whack.

    Yea, they are. It's almost impossible to make a business case for rail under treasury green book rules.
    Does the same go for new roads, or are road projects somehow different?

    (The total lack of major roadbuilding in the north implies that the same problem exists there too tbh.)
    As I understand it, the M25 usage exceeded all expectations too. Something to do with the Treasury looking at current demand but not at how a project might create demand. Before the M25, no-one in their right mind drove across London unless they had to.

    I have certainly been on a couple of trips on the Elizabeth Line that I wouldn't have done in the past because it would have been technically possible, but a balls ache. It was fairly easy to get from Hampshire to Ilford for 9am for a parkrun, for example, and just involved a short tube hop from Waterloo to Tottenham Court Road to get on the Elizabeth Line which took me straight there. I had time to walk from Ilford station to Valentines Park and to stop for a coffee on the way.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 14,291
    Ilse of Wight hotels! Stale air travel anecdotes! Some dull shit from Rawnsley's haircut!

    I might just drink brake fluid.
  • TimGeoTimGeo Posts: 24
    DougSeal said:

    murali_s said:

    PB brains trust: Have any one you stayed over on the Isle of Wight? Any recommendations for a decent hotel for a 3-4 day break (a family of three)?

    While I was a small child in the early 80s our family holiday, for three or four years running (felt like more) was to the Royal Hotel in Ventnor. No idea what it's like now. It was a Trust House Forte hotel back then. The height of sophistication.
    I recently stayed at the newly refurbished Albion Hotel in Freshwater, Really comfortable rooms, wonderful views and friendly staff. I would definitely stay again.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,732

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    I note that with all of this going on in the world the number 1 read story on BBC is that Mickey Rourke has been ordered out of Big Brother.

    We're doomed.

    How can Kemi Badenoch be seriously considered for Prime Minister - why did she not intervene ?
    She's too busy speaking up for those advocating arson and murder.

    https://bsky.app/profile/rolandmcs.bsky.social/post/3lmoghq66lk2f
    The fact that you actually see that Tweet as a negative point against Badenoch, even on PB, quite something.
    She needs to get off the internet
    She's not the only one.
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