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Is Mark Kelly an out of this world suggestion to win in 2028? – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,385
edited March 26 in General
Is Mark Kelly an out of this world suggestion to win in 2028? – politicalbetting.com

Sen. Kelly: DOD policy prohibits discussion of even 'controlled unclassified information' on unsecured devices. Are you both aware of that?DNI Gabbard: I haven't read that policyCIA Director Ratcliffe: I'm not familiar with the DOD policy pic.twitter.com/1AcCrVNmEF

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Comments

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,045
    Is that your idea of subtle?

    If so you need a rocket.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,378
    ydoethur said:

    Is that your idea of subtle?

    If so you need a rocket.

    It went over my head
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,458
    No surprise Trump appointments haven't done all their background reading.

    Kelly could be a contender for 2028 as could others, AOC first to be a candidate for the Democrats
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,045
    Scott_xP said:

    ydoethur said:

    Is that your idea of subtle?

    If so you need a rocket.

    It went over my head
    Would that make Mark Kelly a Cape Crusader?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,729
    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    ydoethur said:

    Is that your idea of subtle?

    If so you need a rocket.

    It went over my head
    Would that make Mark Kelly a Cape Crusader?
    He might be a star.

    Governor Pritzker of Illenois is another one to watch.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,045
    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    ydoethur said:

    Is that your idea of subtle?

    If so you need a rocket.

    It went over my head
    Would that make Mark Kelly a Cape Crusader?
    He might be a star.

    Governor Pritzker of Illenois is another one to watch.
    I’m not convinced by Prtizker in the long term.

    If I were thinking of a Governor that might emerge as a strong candidate the one I would be watching is Andy Beshear of Kentucky.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,729
    HYUFD said:

    No surprise Trump appointments haven't done all their background reading.

    Kelly could be a contender for 2028 as could others, AOC first to be a candidate for the Democrats

    I don't think AOC has formally announced, but I think she is likely to run, and with Bernies backing too.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,289
    While we still have a democracy in the US… the Democrats just won a special state election in Pennsylvania that is usually strongly Republican: https://penncapital-star.com/briefs/democrats-hold-narrow-lead-in-gop-senate-district-claim-house-majority-in-special-elections/
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,375
    ydoethur said:

    Is that your idea of subtle?

    If so you need a rocket.

    It is subtle.

    For me.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,770
    ydoethur said:

    Is that your idea of subtle?

    If so you need a rocket.

    That's a pretty bald statement.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,903
    The track record of Senators winning the White House is not great, at least not without being VP first.

    I think a governor would be a better bet and there are several to choose from.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,923
    edited March 26
    Kelly ticks nearly every box for electability but is seen as a bit dull . Maybe US voters might want that after the daily Trump show .

    I expect Buttigieg will run and be a strong candidate but the elephant in the room is will the US vote for a gay candidate? I just don’t see it and Dems should be minded that elections aren’t won in Liberal states .

    I expect Kamala Harris to go for California governor rather than another attempt at the Presidency.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 18,145
    nico67 said:

    Kelly ticks nearly every box for electability bar but is seen as a bit dull . Maybe US voters might want that after the daily Trump show .

    I expect Buttigieg will run and be a strong candidate but the elephant in the room is will the US vote for a gay candidate? I just don’t see it and Dems should be minded that elections aren’t won in Liberal states .

    I expect Kamala Harris to go for California governor rather than another attempt at the Presidency.

    Hate the mêlée?
    Vote for Kelly.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,442
    FPT
    Cicero said:

    The US represents 25% of global GDP and falling. It represents 60% of global market cap, and that premium reflects the belief in superior technology and more efficient capital allocation. If neither are true, long term, then the US in general, not just tech, is a clear SELL:

    That doesn't necessarily follow from the statistic you quote. Other countries use bank finance much more than America does.

    However, I agree that the US stock market is probably wildly overvalued because of a combination of the Fed's serial bubble blowing and a very American misguided obsession with second rate technology just because it's shiny and new.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,770
    DavidL said:

    The track record of Senators winning the White House is not great, at least not without being VP first.

    I think a governor would be a better bet and there are several to choose from.

    Shapiro.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,770
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    No surprise Trump appointments haven't done all their background reading.

    Kelly could be a contender for 2028 as could others, AOC first to be a candidate for the Democrats

    I don't think AOC has formally announced, but I think she is likely to run, and with Bernies backing too.
    Will the planning session for this be a weekend at Bernie's ?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,770
    An interesting line of questioning for today. If they did use their personal phones, then that is de facto a criminal offence.

    Per POLITICO, Signal cannot be downloaded onto federal devices.

    “Their personal phones are all hackable," a fmr WH official said. "and it’s highly likely that foreign intelligence services are sitting on their phones watching them type the shit out."

    https://x.com/lara_korte/status/1904543892864721163
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,903
    Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    The track record of Senators winning the White House is not great, at least not without being VP first.

    I think a governor would be a better bet and there are several to choose from.

    Shapiro.
    Yes.

    Would it have made a difference if he had been the VP candidate instead of Waltz? Probably not. He maybe dodged a bullet there.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,045
    edited March 26

    nico67 said:

    Kelly ticks nearly every box for electability bar but is seen as a bit dull . Maybe US voters might want that after the daily Trump show .

    I expect Buttigieg will run and be a strong candidate but the elephant in the room is will the US vote for a gay candidate? I just don’t see it and Dems should be minded that elections aren’t won in Liberal states .

    I expect Kamala Harris to go for California governor rather than another attempt at the Presidency.

    Hate the mêlée?
    Vote for Kelly.
    From the monster to the moonster?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,130
    edited March 26
    Good morning everyone.

    Interesting suggestion for a bet.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,766
    Where would our PB Lefties be without Trump to take the heat off the shitshow that is Rachel Reeves ?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,045
    Nigelb said:

    An interesting line of questioning for today. If they did use their personal phones, then that is de facto a criminal offence.

    Per POLITICO, Signal cannot be downloaded onto federal devices.

    “Their personal phones are all hackable," a fmr WH official said. "and it’s highly likely that foreign intelligence services are sitting on their phones watching them type the shit out."

    https://x.com/lara_korte/status/1904543892864721163

    The Supreme Court will disagree because reasons.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,130
    FPT
    boulay said:

    I think the only good news today, with reports that Vance is going to Greenland himself now to make a point, is that Vance is in the hubris phase so we will likely get to enjoy the nemesis part soon.

    I'm a little more hopeful than that. Normal laws of political gravity exist and apply to an extent, as Trump progressively seriously hurts or seriously offends each group who supported (or fell for) his shtick, and they notice.

    He abruptly lost the UK military community afaics when JD Vance came to Europe and publicly pissed on the service and the graves of those 500k, or whatever the number is, of service people who went to Afghanistan or Iraq alongside the USA. It did not help that JD Vance's military service was writing articles.

    He's just lost some US veterans with this latest leak debacle, his non-existent integrity, and his efforts to pretend that it is not serious. Some of that is trad USA Reagan-identifying conservatives. He's also going to blow up support from eg veterans and working class as he closes down their entitlements by fiat, demolishes the parts of the civil state they rely on, hoicks medical costs back up and so on.

    Then there's his destruction of the democratic system and the rule of law.

    The other side is will it cause sullen silence, or voting elsewhere. That's up to both parties. And on how much of USA democracy and the constitutional settlement is still standing.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 18,145
    ydoethur said:

    nico67 said:

    Kelly ticks nearly every box for electability bar but is seen as a bit dull . Maybe US voters might want that after the daily Trump show .

    I expect Buttigieg will run and be a strong candidate but the elephant in the room is will the US vote for a gay candidate? I just don’t see it and Dems should be minded that elections aren’t won in Liberal states .

    I expect Kamala Harris to go for California governor rather than another attempt at the Presidency.

    Hate the mêlée?
    Vote for Kelly.
    From the monster to the moonster?
    We need someone to stop the lunacy.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,903
    Fishing said:

    FPT

    Cicero said:

    The US represents 25% of global GDP and falling. It represents 60% of global market cap, and that premium reflects the belief in superior technology and more efficient capital allocation. If neither are true, long term, then the US in general, not just tech, is a clear SELL:

    That doesn't necessarily follow from the statistic you quote. Other countries use bank finance much more than America does.

    However, I agree that the US stock market is probably wildly overvalued because of a combination of the Fed's serial bubble blowing and a very American misguided obsession with second rate technology just because it's shiny and new.
    Also, at least as far as the magnificent 7 is concerned, the US has moved from competition to an oligarchic system which has allowed super profits to be extracted at the cost of competitiveness for everyone else. In the medium term that will be damaging to the US.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,770
    DavidL said:

    Fishing said:

    FPT

    Cicero said:

    The US represents 25% of global GDP and falling. It represents 60% of global market cap, and that premium reflects the belief in superior technology and more efficient capital allocation. If neither are true, long term, then the US in general, not just tech, is a clear SELL:

    That doesn't necessarily follow from the statistic you quote. Other countries use bank finance much more than America does.

    However, I agree that the US stock market is probably wildly overvalued because of a combination of the Fed's serial bubble blowing and a very American misguided obsession with second rate technology just because it's shiny and new.
    Also, at least as far as the magnificent 7 is concerned, the US has moved from competition to an oligarchic system which has allowed super profits to be extracted at the cost of competitiveness for everyone else. In the medium term that will be damaging to the US.
    The rise of Chinese competitors who accept far lower margins is going to limit that, fairly soon.

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,770
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    nico67 said:

    Kelly ticks nearly every box for electability bar but is seen as a bit dull . Maybe US voters might want that after the daily Trump show .

    I expect Buttigieg will run and be a strong candidate but the elephant in the room is will the US vote for a gay candidate? I just don’t see it and Dems should be minded that elections aren’t won in Liberal states .

    I expect Kamala Harris to go for California governor rather than another attempt at the Presidency.

    Hate the mêlée?
    Vote for Kelly.
    From the monster to the moonster?
    We need someone to stop the lunacy.
    Well, that's Kelly out given he's been closer to the lunar sea than most of us.
    A more down to earth candidate has the advantage there.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,004
    DavidL said:

    The track record of Senators winning the White House is not great, at least not without being VP first.

    I think a governor would be a better bet and there are several to choose from.

    At this stage it is a trading bet.

    If he runs then those odds will tumble.

    I've been on Kelly since beginning of March.

    Betting at all, though, at this stage requires considerable patience and of course some faith that there might be an election at all.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,729
    edited March 26
    DavidL said:

    Fishing said:

    FPT

    Cicero said:

    The US represents 25% of global GDP and falling. It represents 60% of global market cap, and that premium reflects the belief in superior technology and more efficient capital allocation. If neither are true, long term, then the US in general, not just tech, is a clear SELL:

    That doesn't necessarily follow from the statistic you quote. Other countries use bank finance much more than America does.

    However, I agree that the US stock market is probably wildly overvalued because of a combination of the Fed's serial bubble blowing and a very American misguided obsession with second rate technology just because it's shiny and new.
    Also, at least as far as the magnificent 7 is concerned, the US has moved from competition to an oligarchic system which has allowed super profits to be extracted at the cost of competitiveness for everyone else. In the medium term that will be damaging to the US.
    They are all very invested in AI. I wonder if it's the next bubble to pop, either because the hype in not justified or a start up competitor wipes them out. It seems to be like Virtual Reality on Meta something that few people actually want.

    It's getting hard now to buy a smartphone without AI, even though some allow it to be switched off*.

    I am already sick of AI summaries on Google or Amazon that precis reviews etc at the level of a High School senior, saying nothing of interest, merely lowest common denominator pablum that drives mediocrity.

    *looking at the lower spec models seems the best bet at present, but I suspect even they will be "upgraded" in time.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,775
    He’s got the CV. And some ability. Which gets you as far as Vice President. But des he have the star quality?

    The Democrats tried the CV approach with Harris. The problem was that she was a B- performer - not a disaster, but simply not in the Obama/Bill Clinton league.

    What they need for next time is the star quality. The very best.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,242
    Nigelb said:

    How can you hold their posts and not know this ?
    Just pathetic ignorance.

    Sen. Kelly: DOD policy prohibits discussion of even 'controlled unclassified information' on unsecured devices. Are you both aware of that?

    DNI Gabbard: I haven't read that policy

    CIA Director Ratcliffe: I'm not familiar with the DOD policy

    https://x.com/factpostnews/status/1904569014967288148

    The CIA Director goes on to show that he doesn’t even know what controlled unclassified information is.

    It’s like he’s an intern.

    Actual knowledge has always been optional in politics. With Trump's appointments its just scary how little it matters. They probably have rules about personal devices at city level for heaven's sake.

    And their system even has a process to address this with conformations, but the Senate are so supine you need to be an actual maniac not to get through. And even then Gabbard managed it.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 29,797
    Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    Fishing said:

    FPT

    Cicero said:

    The US represents 25% of global GDP and falling. It represents 60% of global market cap, and that premium reflects the belief in superior technology and more efficient capital allocation. If neither are true, long term, then the US in general, not just tech, is a clear SELL:

    That doesn't necessarily follow from the statistic you quote. Other countries use bank finance much more than America does.

    However, I agree that the US stock market is probably wildly overvalued because of a combination of the Fed's serial bubble blowing and a very American misguided obsession with second rate technology just because it's shiny and new.
    Also, at least as far as the magnificent 7 is concerned, the US has moved from competition to an oligarchic system which has allowed super profits to be extracted at the cost of competitiveness for everyone else. In the medium term that will be damaging to the US.
    The rise of Chinese competitors who accept far lower margins is going to limit that, fairly soon.

    We need to factor in a mercantilist President using protectionist tariffs. Free-market capitalism is dying in the home of free-market capitalism.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,237
    No Chance!

    Follicularly challenged.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,844
    FPPT

    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Uh, oh...

    @NatashaBertrand
    Gabbard now says, "I believe there was discussion around targets in general" in the chat, but says "I don't remember" a mention of specific targets and doesn't "recall" mention of specific weapons systems. Ratcliffe also says "I don't recall."

    https://x.com/NatashaBertrand/status/1904560047796998581

    I remember when Hillary Clinton's emails were an absolute scandal.
    They were just a stick to beat her with. Nobody on either side actually cared about the issue.
    Jim Comey's late intervention in the 2016 election is waving at you.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,903
    edited March 26
    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    How can you hold their posts and not know this ?
    Just pathetic ignorance.

    Sen. Kelly: DOD policy prohibits discussion of even 'controlled unclassified information' on unsecured devices. Are you both aware of that?

    DNI Gabbard: I haven't read that policy

    CIA Director Ratcliffe: I'm not familiar with the DOD policy

    https://x.com/factpostnews/status/1904569014967288148

    The CIA Director goes on to show that he doesn’t even know what controlled unclassified information is.

    It’s like he’s an intern.

    Actual knowledge has always been optional in politics. With Trump's appointments its just scary how little it matters. They probably have rules about personal devices at city level for heaven's sake.

    And their system even has a process to address this with conformations, but the Senate are so supine you need to be an actual maniac not to get through. And even then Gabbard managed it.
    The truly shocking thing about that Signal conversation is not that Vance or the CIA director didn’t know but that not one of the 18 on the chat seemed to realise that (a) this was a seriously stupid thing to do and (b) that it was illegal. I presume some of them did know. Were they just too intimidated to point it out?
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 13,802
    The problem with the POTUS betting market 2028 is that are too many ways of this being bent, not all of which would void the market.

    A question is: at what point does it count as bent? One of the more likely ways of ensuring a GOP/Gangster victory is a massive level of the sort of intimidation now used against law firms, universities, some of the media so that the entire campaign, from the point of view of less well informed voters, is like a Russian campaign in which only one outcome is possible under that degree of media control.

    To take a homely instance, it is obvious that the BBC (of all outfits!) is already tempering its coverage to ensure if possible it isn't kicked out when the media purge gets more serious.

    I shall avoid and stick to the 4.07 at Hereford for now.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 18,145

    He’s got the CV. And some ability. Which gets you as far as Vice President. But des he have the star quality?

    The Democrats tried the CV approach with Harris. The problem was that she was a B- performer - not a disaster, but simply not in the Obama/Bill Clinton league.

    What they need for next time is the star quality. The very best.

    Normally, I might agree. But, whatever happens from here, 2028 will not be a normal election. Either any old donkey will win, or no Democrat has a chance.

    What I don't know is which of those conditions will apply.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,608
    Roger said:

    No Chance!

    Follicularly challenged.

    You're overlooking the whigs...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,242
    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    How can you hold their posts and not know this ?
    Just pathetic ignorance.

    Sen. Kelly: DOD policy prohibits discussion of even 'controlled unclassified information' on unsecured devices. Are you both aware of that?

    DNI Gabbard: I haven't read that policy

    CIA Director Ratcliffe: I'm not familiar with the DOD policy

    https://x.com/factpostnews/status/1904569014967288148

    The CIA Director goes on to show that he doesn’t even know what controlled unclassified information is.

    It’s like he’s an intern.

    Actual knowledge has always been optional in politics. With Trump's appointments its just scary how little it matters. They probably have rules about personal devices at city level for heaven's sake.

    And their system even has a process to address this with conformations, but the Senate are so supine you need to be an actual maniac not to get through. And even then Gabbard managed it.
    The truly shocking thing about that Signal conversation is not that Vance or the CIA director didn’t know but that not one of the 18 on the chat seemed to realise that (a) this was a seriously stupid thing to do and (b) that it was illegal. I presume some of them did know. Were they just too intimidated to point it out?
    Probably, but also as noted who would possibly stop them?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,100
    edited March 26
    I can imagine beads of sweat popping on John Healey’s brow on R4 atm as he avoids any criticism of Trump & co. I’d describe those efforts as heroic if they weren’t actually the opposite.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,998
    Roger said:

    No Chance!

    Follicularly challenged.


    ..

  • UnpopularUnpopular Posts: 912
    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    The track record of Senators winning the White House is not great, at least not without being VP first.

    I think a governor would be a better bet and there are several to choose from.

    Shapiro.
    Yes.

    Would it have made a difference if he had been the VP candidate instead of Waltz? Probably not. He maybe dodged a bullet there.
    I suspect he intended to keep well away from the bullet. As soon as Biden decided he didn't want to be a bridge after all I think many Dems saw their personal path to power running through 2028. A two-term Harris would have been against their interests.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,045
    Roger said:

    No Chance!

    Follicularly challenged.

    Trump manages to get away with his stupid looking wig, maybe Kelly could try something similar?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,770
    Headline of the day ?

    Man in 'Captain America' costume forged CIA, Mossad IDs through overseas website

    https://m.koreatimes.co.kr/pages/article.asp?newsIdx=395035
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,775
    Off Topic

    A thought on moral matters and government.

    In the 70s, 80s and 90s, various moral issues (human embryology for example) came up. The government response was to commission reports from people like Mary Warnock. They, based on these recommendations, create a policy and legislate.

    While there was sound and fury, even the opponents of the laws believed that the democratic forms had been obeyed.

    Now we have the rights based system, where the courts can create a whole new area of policy. Because the politicians have opted out of legislating.

    But it is noticeable that the earlier changes are unquestioned by even the ranters - a tiny number dispute abortion and gay marriage, but they have no traction. Even on the alt-right.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 9,936
    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    How can you hold their posts and not know this ?
    Just pathetic ignorance.

    Sen. Kelly: DOD policy prohibits discussion of even 'controlled unclassified information' on unsecured devices. Are you both aware of that?

    DNI Gabbard: I haven't read that policy

    CIA Director Ratcliffe: I'm not familiar with the DOD policy

    https://x.com/factpostnews/status/1904569014967288148

    The CIA Director goes on to show that he doesn’t even know what controlled unclassified information is.

    It’s like he’s an intern.

    Actual knowledge has always been optional in politics. With Trump's appointments its just scary how little it matters. They probably have rules about personal devices at city level for heaven's sake.

    And their system even has a process to address this with conformations, but the Senate are so supine you need to be an actual maniac not to get through. And even then Gabbard managed it.
    The truly shocking thing about that Signal conversation is not that Vance or the CIA director didn’t know but that not one of the 18 on the chat seemed to realise that (a) this was a seriously stupid thing to do and (b) that it was illegal. I presume some of them did know. Were they just too intimidated to point it out?
    Of course they knew. They don't care because they know anyone associated with the executive is immune from prosecution via pardons.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,729
    rkrkrk said:

    Roger said:

    No Chance!

    Follicularly challenged.

    You're overlooking the whigs...
    The were just hair today, gone tomorrow.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,770
    Foxy said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Roger said:

    No Chance!

    Follicularly challenged.

    You're overlooking the whigs...
    The were just hair today, gone tomorrow.
    That's a barberous comment.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,844
    ...
    ydoethur said:

    Roger said:

    No Chance!

    Follicularly challenged.

    Trump manages to get away with his stupid looking wig, maybe Kelly could try something similar?
    Fabricant doesn't need his luscious locks anymore. A deal could be done.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 29,797
    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    How can you hold their posts and not know this ?
    Just pathetic ignorance.

    Sen. Kelly: DOD policy prohibits discussion of even 'controlled unclassified information' on unsecured devices. Are you both aware of that?

    DNI Gabbard: I haven't read that policy

    CIA Director Ratcliffe: I'm not familiar with the DOD policy

    https://x.com/factpostnews/status/1904569014967288148

    The CIA Director goes on to show that he doesn’t even know what controlled unclassified information is.

    It’s like he’s an intern.

    Actual knowledge has always been optional in politics. With Trump's appointments its just scary how little it matters. They probably have rules about personal devices at city level for heaven's sake.

    And their system even has a process to address this with conformations, but the Senate are so supine you need to be an actual maniac not to get through. And even then Gabbard managed it.
    The truly shocking thing about that Signal conversation is not that Vance or the CIA director didn’t know but that not one of the 18 on the chat seemed to realise that (a) this was a seriously stupid thing to do and (b) that it was illegal. I presume some of them did know. Were they just too intimidated to point it out?
    At least some of them likely believe their propaganda about a hostile Deep State (including secure communication routes).

    As for the rest, look at our own scandals about secret documents carried in open view or left at bus stops, not to mention that Boris-era screenshot of a remote Cabinet meeting plastered with insecure, personal email addresses.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,775

    He’s got the CV. And some ability. Which gets you as far as Vice President. But des he have the star quality?

    The Democrats tried the CV approach with Harris. The problem was that she was a B- performer - not a disaster, but simply not in the Obama/Bill Clinton league.

    What they need for next time is the star quality. The very best.

    Normally, I might agree. But, whatever happens from here, 2028 will not be a normal election. Either any old donkey will win, or no Democrat has a chance.

    What I don't know is which of those conditions will apply.
    That’s the kind of thinking that Bernie and AOC are setting fire to.

    “They will just hand it to us”

    I think it is pretty clear that the leadership of the Democrats is thinking like that (partly). It’s also clear that there’s a wrecking ball coming their way. The grass roots aren’t interested in whose turn it is. They want a winner.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,903

    Off Topic

    A thought on moral matters and government.

    In the 70s, 80s and 90s, various moral issues (human embryology for example) came up. The government response was to commission reports from people like Mary Warnock. They, based on these recommendations, create a policy and legislate.

    While there was sound and fury, even the opponents of the laws believed that the democratic forms had been obeyed.

    Now we have the rights based system, where the courts can create a whole new area of policy. Because the politicians have opted out of legislating.

    But it is noticeable that the earlier changes are unquestioned by even the ranters - a tiny number dispute abortion and gay marriage, but they have no traction. Even on the alt-right.

    Not sure that the problem is that legislators have opted out of legislating. Almost the reverse. Politicians want to pass grand sounding aspirational legislation that purports to give generous rights and then rely on the details and the courts to restrict those rights in practice. What has changed is that the courts seem to be taking a more conservative approach to their role and implementing the legislation as passed in a way they would not have done in the past.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,754
    He's bald. Next.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 14,376

    Where would our PB Lefties be without Trump to take the heat off the shitshow that is Rachel Reeves ?

    I suppose without Trump "we" would spend all our time complaining about the "shitshow" of the last decade of Conservative Government. Compared to that, Reeves has hardly got started.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,237

    Where would our PB Lefties be without Trump to take the heat off the shitshow that is Rachel Reeves ?

    It's The Star wot does it!

    I don't know why your man Farage doesn't snap their editor up.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,844
    Roger said:

    Where would our PB Lefties be without Trump to take the heat off the shitshow that is Rachel Reeves ?

    It's The Star wot does it!

    I don't know why your man Farage doesn't snap their editor up.
    I saw Farage earlier defending funding for free school meals. In a world of blue Tories and red Tories we seem to have found a genuine working class hero.

    Excuse me while I vomit.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,903
    edited March 26

    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    How can you hold their posts and not know this ?
    Just pathetic ignorance.

    Sen. Kelly: DOD policy prohibits discussion of even 'controlled unclassified information' on unsecured devices. Are you both aware of that?

    DNI Gabbard: I haven't read that policy

    CIA Director Ratcliffe: I'm not familiar with the DOD policy

    https://x.com/factpostnews/status/1904569014967288148

    The CIA Director goes on to show that he doesn’t even know what controlled unclassified information is.

    It’s like he’s an intern.

    Actual knowledge has always been optional in politics. With Trump's appointments its just scary how little it matters. They probably have rules about personal devices at city level for heaven's sake.

    And their system even has a process to address this with conformations, but the Senate are so supine you need to be an actual maniac not to get through. And even then Gabbard managed it.
    The truly shocking thing about that Signal conversation is not that Vance or the CIA director didn’t know but that not one of the 18 on the chat seemed to realise that (a) this was a seriously stupid thing to do and (b) that it was illegal. I presume some of them did know. Were they just too intimidated to point it out?
    At least some of them likely believe their propaganda about a hostile Deep State (including secure communication routes).

    As for the rest, look at our own scandals about secret documents carried in open view or left at bus stops, not to mention that Boris-era screenshot of a remote Cabinet meeting plastered with insecure, personal email addresses.
    Yeah, but to slightly misquote the great man, we’re invisible now, we have no secrets to conceal.

    The US still do.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,378
    kle4 said:

    Actual knowledge has always been optional in politics. With Trump's appointments its just scary how little it matters.

    Under Trump it matters little in terms of getting the job, but as this episode demonstrates it ABSOLUTELY matters in terms of actually doing the job well, and you know, National Security and stuff...
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 13,802
    DavidL said:

    Off Topic

    A thought on moral matters and government.

    In the 70s, 80s and 90s, various moral issues (human embryology for example) came up. The government response was to commission reports from people like Mary Warnock. They, based on these recommendations, create a policy and legislate.

    While there was sound and fury, even the opponents of the laws believed that the democratic forms had been obeyed.

    Now we have the rights based system, where the courts can create a whole new area of policy. Because the politicians have opted out of legislating.

    But it is noticeable that the earlier changes are unquestioned by even the ranters - a tiny number dispute abortion and gay marriage, but they have no traction. Even on the alt-right.

    Not sure that the problem is that legislators have opted out of legislating. Almost the reverse. Politicians want to pass grand sounding aspirational legislation that purports to give generous rights and then rely on the details and the courts to restrict those rights in practice. What has changed is that the courts seem to be taking a more conservative approach to their role and implementing the legislation as passed in a way they would not have done in the past.
    Yes. All litigation requires an originating something, generally known as a cause of action. I can't sue in tort unless something arguably tortious has been done to me. I can't sue in contract if there isn't an arguable contract to sue about.

    By legislating into law stuff like the ECHR with its general principles - and there are lots more - you create literally an infinity of possible causes of action. The result is obvious.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 29,797
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    How can you hold their posts and not know this ?
    Just pathetic ignorance.

    Sen. Kelly: DOD policy prohibits discussion of even 'controlled unclassified information' on unsecured devices. Are you both aware of that?

    DNI Gabbard: I haven't read that policy

    CIA Director Ratcliffe: I'm not familiar with the DOD policy

    https://x.com/factpostnews/status/1904569014967288148

    The CIA Director goes on to show that he doesn’t even know what controlled unclassified information is.

    It’s like he’s an intern.

    Actual knowledge has always been optional in politics. With Trump's appointments its just scary how little it matters. They probably have rules about personal devices at city level for heaven's sake.

    And their system even has a process to address this with conformations, but the Senate are so supine you need to be an actual maniac not to get through. And even then Gabbard managed it.
    The truly shocking thing about that Signal conversation is not that Vance or the CIA director didn’t know but that not one of the 18 on the chat seemed to realise that (a) this was a seriously stupid thing to do and (b) that it was illegal. I presume some of them did know. Were they just too intimidated to point it out?
    At least some of them likely believe their propaganda about a hostile Deep State (including secure communication routes).

    As for the rest, look at our own scandals about secret documents carried in open view or left at bus stops, not to mention that Boris-era screenshot of a remote Cabinet meeting plastered with insecure, personal email addresses.
    Yeah, but to slightly midquote the great man, we’re invisible now, we have no secrets to conceal.

    The US still do.
    The solution to the less than top secret Signal group is for Team Trump to use private TwiX groups instead. I expect Elon has a crack team working on it already.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 14,376

    He’s got the CV. And some ability. Which gets you as far as Vice President. But des he have the star quality?

    The Democrats tried the CV approach with Harris. The problem was that she was a B- performer - not a disaster, but simply not in the Obama/Bill Clinton league.

    What they need for next time is the star quality. The very best.

    Normally, I might agree. But, whatever happens from here, 2028 will not be a normal election. Either any old donkey will win, or no Democrat has a chance.

    What I don't know is which of those conditions will apply.
    That’s the kind of thinking that Bernie and AOC are setting fire to.

    “They will just hand it to us”

    I think it is pretty clear that the leadership of the Democrats is thinking like that (partly). It’s also clear that there’s a wrecking ball coming their way. The grass roots aren’t interested in whose turn it is. They want a winner.
    That's what political parties do when they get tired of losing and want to win - see Thatcher, Cameron, Blair and even Starmer if you want examples of that.

    If you pick a Corbyn or a Duncan-Smith, you just want to go on losing.

    American parties are different and yet the same - between Presidential elections they are much more diffuse as there is less central leadership.

    The other thing that united parties and quells divisions is the desire to win - arguments are quickly buried behind the common goal (that doesn't mean they can't and won't re-emerge either in Government or in the wake of another defeat).
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,378
    stodge said:

    The other thing that united parties and quells divisions is the desire to win - arguments are quickly buried behind the common goal (that doesn't mean they can't and won't re-emerge either in Government or in the wake of another defeat).

    The Republicans wanted to win, but they got Trump.

    I am not sure that counts as a win, long term...
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 6,200

    ydoethur said:

    Is that your idea of subtle?

    If so you need a rocket.

    It is subtle.

    For me.
    Most subtle in modesty and so modest in subtlety
  • StereodogStereodog Posts: 787
    edited March 26
    stodge said:

    He’s got the CV. And some ability. Which gets you as far as Vice President. But des he have the star quality?

    The Democrats tried the CV approach with Harris. The problem was that she was a B- performer - not a disaster, but simply not in the Obama/Bill Clinton league.

    What they need for next time is the star quality. The very best.

    Normally, I might agree. But, whatever happens from here, 2028 will not be a normal election. Either any old donkey will win, or no Democrat has a chance.

    What I don't know is which of those conditions will apply.
    That’s the kind of thinking that Bernie and AOC are setting fire to.

    “They will just hand it to us”

    I think it is pretty clear that the leadership of the Democrats is thinking like that (partly). It’s also clear that there’s a wrecking ball coming their way. The grass roots aren’t interested in whose turn it is. They want a winner.
    That's what political parties do when they get tired of losing and want to win - see Thatcher, Cameron, Blair and even Starmer if you want examples of that.

    If you pick a Corbyn or a Duncan-Smith, you just want to go on losing.

    American parties are different and yet the same - between Presidential elections they are much more diffuse as there is less central leadership.

    The other thing that united parties and quells divisions is the desire to win - arguments are quickly buried behind the common goal (that doesn't mean they can't and won't re-emerge either in Government or in the wake of another defeat).
    That's partly true but sometimes parties get into a funk and need to pick someone who will shake it up. Thatcher was far from a safe choice but the Tories had allowed Heath to run in four elections and he lost three of them. They needed to roll the dice on someone new and it worked for them. She wasn't a unity choice and many senior figures in the party were aghast that she won. The Democrats united behind Harris and it didn't work so they may well need to roll the dice on someone like AOC.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 13,802
    DavidL said:

    Where would our PB Lefties be without Trump to take the heat off the shitshow that is Rachel Reeves ?

    I think it’s only fair to ask whether Reeves would be quite such a complete shitshow if it wasn’t for Trump’s antics. And I am not a fan.
    Labour are in some danger of losing their USP. I suppose we should wait and see, but it looks very much as if they are expecting the next round of heavy lifting in the unending contest of tax, spend and borrow to be borne by a lot of people who are relatively poor. IIRC this is not generally Labour's top mission. At the same time as dealing with fraud and feckless wasters in the bloated welfare system, they should also be looking at better off pensioners, the regressive nature of council tax, petrol duty etc.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,588
    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    How can you hold their posts and not know this ?
    Just pathetic ignorance.

    Sen. Kelly: DOD policy prohibits discussion of even 'controlled unclassified information' on unsecured devices. Are you both aware of that?

    DNI Gabbard: I haven't read that policy

    CIA Director Ratcliffe: I'm not familiar with the DOD policy

    https://x.com/factpostnews/status/1904569014967288148

    The CIA Director goes on to show that he doesn’t even know what controlled unclassified information is.

    It’s like he’s an intern.

    Actual knowledge has always been optional in politics. With Trump's appointments its just scary how little it matters. They probably have rules about personal devices at city level for heaven's sake.

    And their system even has a process to address this with conformations, but the Senate are so supine you need to be an actual maniac not to get through. And even then Gabbard managed it.
    The truly shocking thing about that Signal conversation is not that Vance or the CIA director didn’t know but that not one of the 18 on the chat seemed to realise that (a) this was a seriously stupid thing to do and (b) that it was illegal. I presume some of them did know. Were they just too intimidated to point it out?
    If there is one thing I've learnt from decades of investigating misbehaviour and scandal it is that courage is a rare commodity, far rarer than we like to pretend.

    And that's even without any fear of intimidation.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,237
    edited March 26
    deleted
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,356
    As an illiterate foreign-born living in your country, I don't get TSE's awesome pun/reference.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 29,797
    edited March 26
    Stereodog said:

    stodge said:

    He’s got the CV. And some ability. Which gets you as far as Vice President. But des he have the star quality?

    The Democrats tried the CV approach with Harris. The problem was that she was a B- performer - not a disaster, but simply not in the Obama/Bill Clinton league.

    What they need for next time is the star quality. The very best.

    Normally, I might agree. But, whatever happens from here, 2028 will not be a normal election. Either any old donkey will win, or no Democrat has a chance.

    What I don't know is which of those conditions will apply.
    That’s the kind of thinking that Bernie and AOC are setting fire to.

    “They will just hand it to us”

    I think it is pretty clear that the leadership of the Democrats is thinking like that (partly). It’s also clear that there’s a wrecking ball coming their way. The grass roots aren’t interested in whose turn it is. They want a winner.
    That's what political parties do when they get tired of losing and want to win - see Thatcher, Cameron, Blair and even Starmer if you want examples of that.

    If you pick a Corbyn or a Duncan-Smith, you just want to go on losing.

    American parties are different and yet the same - between Presidential elections they are much more diffuse as there is less central leadership.

    The other thing that united parties and quells divisions is the desire to win - arguments are quickly buried behind the common goal (that doesn't mean they can't and won't re-emerge either in Government or in the wake of another defeat).
    That's partly true but sometimes parties get into a funk and need to pick someone who will shake it up. Thatcher was far from a safe choice but the Tories had allowed Heath to run in four elections and he lost three of them. They needed to roll the dice on someone new and it worked for them. She wasn't a unity choice and many senior figures in the party were aghast that she won. The Democrats united behind Harris and it didn't work so they may well need to roll the dice on someone like AOC.
    The Conservative Party did not choose Mrs Thatcher in order to roll the dice. The ‘most sophisticated electorate in the world’ chose Mrs Thatcher by mistake. Her campaign team, led by Airey Neave, encouraged backbenchers to vote Thatcher as a purely symbolic protest vote, assuring them that she had no chance of actually winning.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 9,936
    edited March 26
    algarkirk said:

    DavidL said:

    Where would our PB Lefties be without Trump to take the heat off the shitshow that is Rachel Reeves ?

    I think it’s only fair to ask whether Reeves would be quite such a complete shitshow if it wasn’t for Trump’s antics. And I am not a fan.
    Labour are in some danger of losing their USP. I suppose we should wait and see, but it looks very much as if they are expecting the next round of heavy lifting in the unending contest of tax, spend and borrow to be borne by a lot of people who are relatively poor. IIRC this is not generally Labour's top mission. At the same time as dealing with fraud and feckless wasters in the bloated welfare system, they should also be looking at better off pensioners, the regressive nature of council tax, petrol duty etc.
    The big issue is that spending and tax are materially higher than they would have been under Hunt's plans*, but core Labour supporters aren't going to see much of that spending being younger and more likely to be in work, have children etc. if you care about disabled folk, it even looks like austerity.

    *Which involved a big cut to capital signing, so don't get excited
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,608
    Apparently Labour are going to make deeper than planned benefits cuts (as in deeper than planned 5 days ago) because the OBR thinks they won't raise £5bn, it will raise a bit less.

    On the one hand, I suppose it's good we have a system where this gets scored. But it is weird for Labour to be changing policy to hit a £5bn rather than £3.4bn forecast at the drop of a hat. No one knows how much money this will save!
  • stodgestodge Posts: 14,376
    Scott_xP said:

    stodge said:

    The other thing that united parties and quells divisions is the desire to win - arguments are quickly buried behind the common goal (that doesn't mean they can't and won't re-emerge either in Government or in the wake of another defeat).

    The Republicans wanted to win, but they got Trump.

    I am not sure that counts as a win, long term...
    For the core Republican supporters, Trump is three times a winner (he was cheated out of the 2020 race) and the party has control of both Houses (back in 2008 they lost everything to Obama's Democrats).

    No one else from within the GOP had a chance once Trump decided he was going to run again for 2024 - had he not done so, the resulting primary would have made Gettysburg look like and afternoon picnic.

    The question is both how long can he and the Republicans avoid the inevitable fall and how steep will that fall be when it happens? Sometimes election victories are worse for the victors than the vanquished - it's now clear the 1992 and 2019 GE wins were disastrous for the Conservatives here. Arguably, the 2020 win was disastrous for the Democrats - had Trump been re-elected, he and the Republicans would have had the post-Covid inflation on their watch and it's probable the world now would be very different.

    That's hindsight for you - as for how this will play out, I've no clue. A prolonged period of Republican domination seems oddly enough the least likely option - more likely is a profound reversal at some point with a Democrat landslide but it may not be 2028.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,378
    ...
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,775
    DavidL said:

    Off Topic

    A thought on moral matters and government.

    In the 70s, 80s and 90s, various moral issues (human embryology for example) came up. The government response was to commission reports from people like Mary Warnock. They, based on these recommendations, create a policy and legislate.

    While there was sound and fury, even the opponents of the laws believed that the democratic forms had been obeyed.

    Now we have the rights based system, where the courts can create a whole new area of policy. Because the politicians have opted out of legislating.

    But it is noticeable that the earlier changes are unquestioned by even the ranters - a tiny number dispute abortion and gay marriage, but they have no traction. Even on the alt-right.

    Not sure that the problem is that legislators have opted out of legislating. Almost the reverse. Politicians want to pass grand sounding aspirational legislation that purports to give generous rights and then rely on the details and the courts to restrict those rights in practice. What has changed is that the courts seem to be taking a more conservative approach to their role and implementing the legislation as passed in a way they would not have done in the past.
    Legislating vague rights, then getting upset at the concrete results, *is* opting out.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,775
    Cyclefree said:

    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    How can you hold their posts and not know this ?
    Just pathetic ignorance.

    Sen. Kelly: DOD policy prohibits discussion of even 'controlled unclassified information' on unsecured devices. Are you both aware of that?

    DNI Gabbard: I haven't read that policy

    CIA Director Ratcliffe: I'm not familiar with the DOD policy

    https://x.com/factpostnews/status/1904569014967288148

    The CIA Director goes on to show that he doesn’t even know what controlled unclassified information is.

    It’s like he’s an intern.

    Actual knowledge has always been optional in politics. With Trump's appointments its just scary how little it matters. They probably have rules about personal devices at city level for heaven's sake.

    And their system even has a process to address this with conformations, but the Senate are so supine you need to be an actual maniac not to get through. And even then Gabbard managed it.
    The truly shocking thing about that Signal conversation is not that Vance or the CIA director didn’t know but that not one of the 18 on the chat seemed to realise that (a) this was a seriously stupid thing to do and (b) that it was illegal. I presume some of them did know. Were they just too intimidated to point it out?
    If there is one thing I've learnt from decades of investigating misbehaviour and scandal it is that courage is a rare commodity, far rarer than we like to pretend.

    And that's even without any fear of intimidation.
    The Bosses Exemption from security rules is universal. And often non existent.

    One subtle point about many good IT systems is that they have no way to create the idiotic work around that management feel entitled to.

    “I can’t download the banks derivative positions to your personal laptop. Because there’s no way to do it.”
  • stodgestodge Posts: 14,376

    Stereodog said:

    stodge said:

    He’s got the CV. And some ability. Which gets you as far as Vice President. But des he have the star quality?

    The Democrats tried the CV approach with Harris. The problem was that she was a B- performer - not a disaster, but simply not in the Obama/Bill Clinton league.

    What they need for next time is the star quality. The very best.

    Normally, I might agree. But, whatever happens from here, 2028 will not be a normal election. Either any old donkey will win, or no Democrat has a chance.

    What I don't know is which of those conditions will apply.
    That’s the kind of thinking that Bernie and AOC are setting fire to.

    “They will just hand it to us”

    I think it is pretty clear that the leadership of the Democrats is thinking like that (partly). It’s also clear that there’s a wrecking ball coming their way. The grass roots aren’t interested in whose turn it is. They want a winner.
    That's what political parties do when they get tired of losing and want to win - see Thatcher, Cameron, Blair and even Starmer if you want examples of that.

    If you pick a Corbyn or a Duncan-Smith, you just want to go on losing.

    American parties are different and yet the same - between Presidential elections they are much more diffuse as there is less central leadership.

    The other thing that united parties and quells divisions is the desire to win - arguments are quickly buried behind the common goal (that doesn't mean they can't and won't re-emerge either in Government or in the wake of another defeat).
    That's partly true but sometimes parties get into a funk and need to pick someone who will shake it up. Thatcher was far from a safe choice but the Tories had allowed Heath to run in four elections and he lost three of them. They needed to roll the dice on someone new and it worked for them. She wasn't a unity choice and many senior figures in the party were aghast that she won. The Democrats united behind Harris and it didn't work so they may well need to roll the dice on someone like AOC.
    The Conservative Party did not choose Mrs Thatcher in order to roll the dice. The ‘most sophisticated electorate in the world’ chose Mrs Thatcher by mistake. Her campaign team, led by Airey Neave, encouraged backbenchers to vote Thatcher as a purely symbolic protest vote, assuring them that she had no chance of actually winning.
    Heath got 119 out of 277 possible votes, a damning indictment along the lines of the IDS defeat in 2003. After that he had no choice but to go. Thatcher had 130 votes and the momentum.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 29,797
    Computer security guru Troy Hunt got phished.
    https://www.troyhunt.com/a-sneaky-phish-just-grabbed-my-mailchimp-mailing-list/

    Oops. Stay safe!
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 9,936
    edited March 26
    rkrkrk said:

    Apparently Labour are going to make deeper than planned benefits cuts (as in deeper than planned 5 days ago) because the OBR thinks they won't raise £5bn, it will raise a bit less.

    On the one hand, I suppose it's good we have a system where this gets scored. But it is weird for Labour to be changing policy to hit a £5bn rather than £3.4bn forecast at the drop of a hat. No one knows how much money this will save!

    Let's be honest, it's likely to end up costing loads of money. For every person this induces into work (very few, given it's a non-means tested benefit so the incentive is already there), there will be 5 people who find their financial position deteriorate to the extent they require support from some other source, or find their health condition worsen or lose their independence and end up in A&E and/or council social care.

    This effect will materialise just in time for the Conservative minority government in 2029.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,289
    ydoethur said:

    Roger said:

    No Chance!

    Follicularly challenged.

    Trump manages to get away with his stupid looking wig, maybe Kelly could try something similar?
    It's a combover, not a wig.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,608
    edited March 26
    Eabhal said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Apparently Labour are going to make deeper than planned benefits cuts (as in deeper than planned 5 days ago) because the OBR thinks they won't raise £5bn, it will raise a bit less.

    On the one hand, I suppose it's good we have a system where this gets scored. But it is weird for Labour to be changing policy to hit a £5bn rather than £3.4bn forecast at the drop of a hat. No one knows how much money this will save!

    Let's be honest, it's likely to end up costing loads of money. For every person this induces into work (very few, given it's a non-means tested benefit so the incentive is already there), there will be 5 people who find their financial position deteriorate to the extent they require support from some other source, or find their health condition worsen or lose their independence and end up in A&E and/or council social care.

    This effect will materialise just in time for the Conservative minority government in 2029.
    I think some of the wider reforms (right to try work, keep benefits if it doesn't work out) will have positive effects. Scrapping unnecessary additional work assessments is just money saved. Big issue (who seem to be the only people with any actual information on the changes) estimate that 1.7m people previously had to do 2 assessments and will now only need to do 1. That's probably a reasonable saving!

    But absolutely agree - if they don't have a good plan here, it will end upncosting money as previous Tories found. You can't just announce success and walk away.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 623

    Roger said:

    Where would our PB Lefties be without Trump to take the heat off the shitshow that is Rachel Reeves ?

    It's The Star wot does it!

    I don't know why your man Farage doesn't snap their editor up.
    I saw Farage earlier defending funding for free school meals. In a world of blue Tories and red Tories we seem to have found a genuine working class hero.

    Excuse me while I vomit.
    Damascene conversion?
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 623
    algarkirk said:

    DavidL said:

    Off Topic

    A thought on moral matters and government.

    In the 70s, 80s and 90s, various moral issues (human embryology for example) came up. The government response was to commission reports from people like Mary Warnock. They, based on these recommendations, create a policy and legislate.

    While there was sound and fury, even the opponents of the laws believed that the democratic forms had been obeyed.

    Now we have the rights based system, where the courts can create a whole new area of policy. Because the politicians have opted out of legislating.

    But it is noticeable that the earlier changes are unquestioned by even the ranters - a tiny number dispute abortion and gay marriage, but they have no traction. Even on the alt-right.

    Not sure that the problem is that legislators have opted out of legislating. Almost the reverse. Politicians want to pass grand sounding aspirational legislation that purports to give generous rights and then rely on the details and the courts to restrict those rights in practice. What has changed is that the courts seem to be taking a more conservative approach to their role and implementing the legislation as passed in a way they would not have done in the past.
    Yes. All litigation requires an originating something, generally known as a cause of action. I can't sue in tort unless something arguably tortious has been done to me. I can't sue in contract if there isn't an arguable contract to sue about.

    By legislating into law stuff like the ECHR with its general principles - and there are lots more - you create literally an infinity of possible causes of action. The result is obvious.
    Great summary of the problems with (badly drafted?) legislation. Which segues into the Sussex Uni debacle today.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,588
    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/healthcare/article/royal-free-maternity-unit-closure-hzvgc87x6

    The unit where my three came into the world to close. Couples wanting to start families cannot afford to live here or even close by. A depressing backdrop to the meeting of the governors of the school where I am chair.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,588
    Battlebus said:

    algarkirk said:

    DavidL said:

    Off Topic

    A thought on moral matters and government.

    In the 70s, 80s and 90s, various moral issues (human embryology for example) came up. The government response was to commission reports from people like Mary Warnock. They, based on these recommendations, create a policy and legislate.

    While there was sound and fury, even the opponents of the laws believed that the democratic forms had been obeyed.

    Now we have the rights based system, where the courts can create a whole new area of policy. Because the politicians have opted out of legislating.

    But it is noticeable that the earlier changes are unquestioned by even the ranters - a tiny number dispute abortion and gay marriage, but they have no traction. Even on the alt-right.

    Not sure that the problem is that legislators have opted out of legislating. Almost the reverse. Politicians want to pass grand sounding aspirational legislation that purports to give generous rights and then rely on the details and the courts to restrict those rights in practice. What has changed is that the courts seem to be taking a more conservative approach to their role and implementing the legislation as passed in a way they would not have done in the past.
    Yes. All litigation requires an originating something, generally known as a cause of action. I can't sue in tort unless something arguably tortious has been done to me. I can't sue in contract if there isn't an arguable contract to sue about.

    By legislating into law stuff like the ECHR with its general principles - and there are lots more - you create literally an infinity of possible causes of action. The result is obvious.
    Great summary of the problems with (badly drafted?) legislation. Which segues into the Sussex Uni debacle today.
    Caused less by badly drafted legislation and more by over-reliance on misleading advice from lobby groups and a failure to take good quality advice from actual expert lawyers. Plus a generous dose of cowardice.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,650
    edited March 26
    Cyclefree said:

    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    How can you hold their posts and not know this ?
    Just pathetic ignorance.

    Sen. Kelly: DOD policy prohibits discussion of even 'controlled unclassified information' on unsecured devices. Are you both aware of that?

    DNI Gabbard: I haven't read that policy

    CIA Director Ratcliffe: I'm not familiar with the DOD policy

    https://x.com/factpostnews/status/1904569014967288148

    The CIA Director goes on to show that he doesn’t even know what controlled unclassified information is.

    It’s like he’s an intern.

    Actual knowledge has always been optional in politics. With Trump's appointments its just scary how little it matters. They probably have rules about personal devices at city level for heaven's sake.

    And their system even has a process to address this with conformations, but the Senate are so supine you need to be an actual maniac not to get through. And even then Gabbard managed it.
    The truly shocking thing about that Signal conversation is not that Vance or the CIA director didn’t know but that not one of the 18 on the chat seemed to realise that (a) this was a seriously stupid thing to do and (b) that it was illegal. I presume some of them did know. Were they just too intimidated to point it out?
    If there is one thing I've learnt from decades of investigating misbehaviour and scandal it is that courage is a rare commodity, far rarer than we like to pretend.

    And that's even without any fear of intimidation.
    A sad but true fact. The personal cost-benefit analysis of doing something courageous when career, friendships, reputation or money are at stake, even in a fairly minor way, is rarely positive. It’s a sort of variation of the tragedy of the commons. And prisoner’s dilemma.
  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,927
    algarkirk said:



    To take a homely instance, it is obvious that the BBC (of all outfits!) is already tempering its coverage to ensure if possible it isn't kicked out when the media purge gets more serious.

    I had noticed that, and didn't quite understand it. I was wondering why the BBC would either not report or very much temper down the reporting ("It is understood some possible minor security breaches may have happened, but the White House Press Secretary said they didn't so that's good enough for us, so lets move onto this ridiculous story about Stacey Solomon and Joe Swash")

    The BBC has decided of the three options (Fight, flight or bend the knee) that they'll bend the knee. I doubt it'll save them when the purge comes (the name 'British' will guarantee they'll be purged) but I suspect they're trying.

    I don't use the BBC for any American news stories anymore. They mostly don't report the shitstorm happening there, and what little they do is very much 'both sides'ism, when it's very obvious there is no alternative position to take.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,408
    The AfD will be leading the polls in Germany soon at this rate:

    https://x.com/wahlrecht_de/status/1904800927988482235

    image
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,004
    Eabhal said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Apparently Labour are going to make deeper than planned benefits cuts (as in deeper than planned 5 days ago) because the OBR thinks they won't raise £5bn, it will raise a bit less.

    On the one hand, I suppose it's good we have a system where this gets scored. But it is weird for Labour to be changing policy to hit a £5bn rather than £3.4bn forecast at the drop of a hat. No one knows how much money this will save!

    Let's be honest, it's likely to end up costing loads of money. For every person this induces into work (very few, given it's a non-means tested benefit so the incentive is already there), there will be 5 people who find their financial position deteriorate to the extent they require support from some other source, or find their health condition worsen or lose their independence and end up in A&E and/or council social care.

    This effect will materialise just in time for the Conservative minority government in 2029.
    PIP is non-means tested, but changes to PIP are not the only things going on with the Green Paper. Contributory ESA is being scrapped. This non-means tested if you have an up to date NI record before falling ill/disabled. Those in the Support group for ESA currently carry on into as long as they have the condition (assuming pass an subsquent reassessment). That is being scrapped. The replacement for the contributory ESA is called something like Unemployment Insurance and, crucially, will only be for twelve months for everyone.

    They are also changing aspects of UC including the rates paid to the sick and non-sick to try and rebalance.

  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 4,417

    algarkirk said:



    To take a homely instance, it is obvious that the BBC (of all outfits!) is already tempering its coverage to ensure if possible it isn't kicked out when the media purge gets more serious.

    I had noticed that, and didn't quite understand it. I was wondering why the BBC would either not report or very much temper down the reporting ("It is understood some possible minor security breaches may have happened, but the White House Press Secretary said they didn't so that's good enough for us, so lets move onto this ridiculous story about Stacey Solomon and Joe Swash")

    The BBC has decided of the three options (Fight, flight or bend the knee) that they'll bend the knee. I doubt it'll save them when the purge comes (the name 'British' will guarantee they'll be purged) but I suspect they're trying.

    I don't use the BBC for any American news stories anymore. They mostly don't report the shitstorm happening there, and what little they do is very much 'both sides'ism, when it's very obvious there is no alternative position to take.
    I was always pro BBC and licence fee and public broadcaster, but I feel now what's the point? The news and comment programmes have ceased to be balanced and all encompassing, ie farage on all the time yet question time stopped being balanced years ago. I feel that the entertainment shows can be adequately provided by netflix/prime or ITV. It's a great shame, but theyve ceased to play to their original motto.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 9,186

    Computer security guru Troy Hunt got phished.
    https://www.troyhunt.com/a-sneaky-phish-just-grabbed-my-mailchimp-mailing-list/

    Oops. Stay safe!

    Ooops, but easily done, I guess. And the thing about legitimate organisations using different domains is true - for a long time, Nationwide's online banking was at olb2.nationet.com rather than something.nationwide.co.uk which looks dodgy as hell when you think about it. My employer also sent us, via email, an online security course to be completed at some random domain (local IT emailed a few minutes later to confirm that it was legit and to acknowledge the irony of it looking like a phishing email).

    Had email signing ever really taken off, then this kind of thing would be a bit harder.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,355
    MaxPB said:

    He's bald. Next.

    I knew there was something I liked about him!
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