The first poll in the Runcorn & Helsby by-election – politicalbetting.com

Nigel_Foremain said:

TimS said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Don't panic Mr. Mainwaring....


A new coronavirus feared to be able to spread to humans has been discovered by a China-linked scientist.

Researchers from Brazil and colleagues affiliated with the University of Hong Kong detected the new strain after swabbing the mouths and rectums of bats.

The novel strain is closely related to MERS — a disease that kills about 35 percent of the people it infects.

The makeup of the virus' spike protein, which it uses to trigger an infection, means it can probably infect human cells, the researchers warned.

The virus is now being transported to China, along with six other viruses discovered during the expedition.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-14499027/new-coronavirus-discovery-bats-chinese-scientist.html

What a job. Wiping bats’ arses, finding new deadly diseases and shipping them to labs in China.

I hope they’ve sent the sequences to some vaccine companies.

Where is @Leon when you need him to do his nut about yet another subject that he knows jack-shit about (or bat shit maybe?)

Daveyboy1961 said:

Pagan2 said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

Pagan2 said:

People on this board I think do fairly nicely from the lib/lab/con nothing changes position they might get a little less well off but not by much.....Thats a privliged postion not held by about 70% of people where a lot of the centrist policies of either of the three parties actually makes them worse off than they were before....don't think many here live in the world inhabited by most of the country

It's a view I suppose...

Suggest a reason to doubt what I said then, most pensioners here are on defined benefit pensions giving them a total income well above min wage...name one thats not....of those still working we have people like rochdale, richard tyndall, casino royale all have hinted at salaries 6 figures or more....even chb has said he is living in a parental house so not having to pay rent as I remember

Name one person other than me that is not working for a company and paying rent? Morris dancer maybe

A 40 hr week at minimum wage is almost double my pension. Don't fall for the media propaganda of rich pensioners please. What savings I have pushes me into tax due to the interest payments, just. I would have dreamed of a six figure salary. Mine is only 6 figures if you include the pence.

I paid rent/ a mortgage for 45 years before I retired.

Cookie said:

OldKingCole said:

DavidL said:

I must confess that I am finding our politics so deeply depressing at the moment that I am finding it harder to even comment on it.

The leadership of the main parties is utterly uninspired and seems to have no idea what they want (other than to be in power). Reeves is a shockingly poor Chancellor whose initial budget has killed off growth in the UK, growth that is essential to make her numbers work. They Tories failed to address the real and substantial problems that we have in investment, excess consumption, balance of payments, debt and skills. Modest efforts such as Hunt's policy of allowing 100% write offs for investment were welcome but not even close to sufficient.

I personally find Reform repugnant. There is a deep underlying strand of racism, a determination to live on "alternative facts" and a reluctance to engage with real world problems. I will never vote for them.

The Lib Dems are teetering on the verge of total irrelevance and show no signs of any kind of breakthrough. The Greens are even worse. As for the SNP up here, words simply fail me.

I am now 63. I just missed voting in 1979. I cannot recall a time in my adult life where we had such a range of problems and no real hints of any solutions from anyone. We are not attracting people of the requisite talent into politics. Reform thrive on the None of the Above ticket. I personally put them at the top of the list for None of the Above but you can begin to understand peoples' frustration and irritation with what they are being offered. I am struggling to see how we fix this.

You are, David (if may call you that) jut a year or so older than my elder son and I have to say that agree with you about our politicians, although I'm very aware of the need NOT to look back to some long-ago Golden Age. I would not put many of Labour's current leaders in the same ability bracket as, say Robin Cook or Gordon Brown let alone Michael Foot, Denis Healey, or, going further back Harold Wilson or Aneurin Bevan. Yes they had their faults but they also had beliefs.
I wasn't a Thatcher fan, but she had a vision, mistaken though I thought it to be. And she was wise enough to have a 'critical friend' close to her. As well as able lieutenants.
As far as the LibDems are concerned, one cannot, absolutely cannot, realistically equate Ed Davey with Jo Gromond, David Steel or Paddy Ashdown. Jeremy Thorpe had massive clay feet but he was an inspirational speaker.
Reform scares me, to be honest.

I'm only 49, but I'm sceptical there was ever a golden period of competent politicians. Politics is incredibly difficult and required mastery of impossible swathes of detail. We award yesterday's politicians a gravitas they have now through experience but didn't have at the time. And previous generations didn't have to contend with social media or 24hr news.
Rachel Reeves is still the weakest chancellor of my lifetime by a country mile, mind you.

Pagan2 said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

Pagan2 said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

Pagan2 said:

People on this board I think do fairly nicely from the lib/lab/con nothing changes position they might get a little less well off but not by much.....Thats a privliged postion not held by about 70% of people where a lot of the centrist policies of either of the three parties actually makes them worse off than they were before....don't think many here live in the world inhabited by most of the country

It's a view I suppose...

Suggest a reason to doubt what I said then, most pensioners here are on defined benefit pensions giving them a total income well above min wage...name one thats not....of those still working we have people like rochdale, richard tyndall, casino royale all have hinted at salaries 6 figures or more....even chb has said he is living in a parental house so not having to pay rent as I remember

Name one person other than me that is not working for a company and paying rent? Morris dancer maybe

A 40 hr week at minimum wage is almost double my pension. Don't fall for the media propaganda of rich pensioners please. What savings I have pushes me into tax due to the interest payments, just. I would have dreamed of a six figure salary. Mine is only 6 figures if you include the pence.

I paid rent/ a mortgage for 45 years before I retired.

yes but now you own your house being paid 12.5k state pension and owning a house leaves you 12.5k. And when you say "A 40 hr week at minimum wage is almost double my pension." Do you mean double my pension total or double my public sector pension which as I recall you are a public sector worker. If you have a pension of 11k for example to add to your state pension and mortgage free thats a lot different

Taz said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

Pagan2 said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

Pagan2 said:

People on this board I think do fairly nicely from the lib/lab/con nothing changes position they might get a little less well off but not by much.....Thats a privliged postion not held by about 70% of people where a lot of the centrist policies of either of the three parties actually makes them worse off than they were before....don't think many here live in the world inhabited by most of the country

It's a view I suppose...

Suggest a reason to doubt what I said then, most pensioners here are on defined benefit pensions giving them a total income well above min wage...name one thats not....of those still working we have people like rochdale, richard tyndall, casino royale all have hinted at salaries 6 figures or more....even chb has said he is living in a parental house so not having to pay rent as I remember

Name one person other than me that is not working for a company and paying rent? Morris dancer maybe

A 40 hr week at minimum wage is almost double my pension. Don't fall for the media propaganda of rich pensioners please. What savings I have pushes me into tax due to the interest payments, just. I would have dreamed of a six figure salary. Mine is only 6 figures if you include the pence.

I paid rent/ a mortgage for 45 years before I retired.

Do you have private provision too ?

The quarter of a pensioners are millionaires line is based on their assets, so House and pension pot. It fails to take into account that pension pot has to pay their wages for the rest of their lives.

Daveyboy1961 said:

Pagan2 said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

Pagan2 said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

Pagan2 said:

People on this board I think do fairly nicely from the lib/lab/con nothing changes position they might get a little less well off but not by much.....Thats a privliged postion not held by about 70% of people where a lot of the centrist policies of either of the three parties actually makes them worse off than they were before....don't think many here live in the world inhabited by most of the country

It's a view I suppose...

Suggest a reason to doubt what I said then, most pensioners here are on defined benefit pensions giving them a total income well above min wage...name one thats not....of those still working we have people like rochdale, richard tyndall, casino royale all have hinted at salaries 6 figures or more....even chb has said he is living in a parental house so not having to pay rent as I remember

Name one person other than me that is not working for a company and paying rent? Morris dancer maybe

A 40 hr week at minimum wage is almost double my pension. Don't fall for the media propaganda of rich pensioners please. What savings I have pushes me into tax due to the interest payments, just. I would have dreamed of a six figure salary. Mine is only 6 figures if you include the pence.

I paid rent/ a mortgage for 45 years before I retired.

yes but now you own your house being paid 12.5k state pension and owning a house leaves you 12.5k. And when you say "A 40 hr week at minimum wage is almost double my pension." Do you mean double my pension total or double my public sector pension which as I recall you are a public sector worker. If you have a pension of 11k for example to add to your state pension and mortgage free thats a lot different

In 2 years my income will be equivalent to minimum wage.

williamglenn said:

https://x.com/atrupar/status/1900548554575286694

Pam Bondi: "If you're gonna touch a Tesla, go to a dealership, do anything, you better watch out, because we're coming after you."

Daveyboy1961 said:

Taz said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

Pagan2 said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

Pagan2 said:

People on this board I think do fairly nicely from the lib/lab/con nothing changes position they might get a little less well off but not by much.....Thats a privliged postion not held by about 70% of people where a lot of the centrist policies of either of the three parties actually makes them worse off than they were before....don't think many here live in the world inhabited by most of the country

It's a view I suppose...

Suggest a reason to doubt what I said then, most pensioners here are on defined benefit pensions giving them a total income well above min wage...name one thats not....of those still working we have people like rochdale, richard tyndall, casino royale all have hinted at salaries 6 figures or more....even chb has said he is living in a parental house so not having to pay rent as I remember

Name one person other than me that is not working for a company and paying rent? Morris dancer maybe

A 40 hr week at minimum wage is almost double my pension. Don't fall for the media propaganda of rich pensioners please. What savings I have pushes me into tax due to the interest payments, just. I would have dreamed of a six figure salary. Mine is only 6 figures if you include the pence.

I paid rent/ a mortgage for 45 years before I retired.

Do you have private provision too ?

The quarter of a pensioners are millionaires line is based on their assets, so House and pension pot. It fails to take into account that pension pot has to pay their wages for the rest of their lives.

I am living on my private pension. I have 2 more years before the state pension kicks in.

Cookie said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

Cookie said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

Pagan2 said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

Pagan2 said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

Pagan2 said:

People on this board I think do fairly nicely from the lib/lab/con nothing changes position they might get a little less well off but not by much.....Thats a privliged postion not held by about 70% of people where a lot of the centrist policies of either of the three parties actually makes them worse off than they were before....don't think many here live in the world inhabited by most of the country

It's a view I suppose...

Suggest a reason to doubt what I said then, most pensioners here are on defined benefit pensions giving them a total income well above min wage...name one thats not....of those still working we have people like rochdale, richard tyndall, casino royale all have hinted at salaries 6 figures or more....even chb has said he is living in a parental house so not having to pay rent as I remember

Name one person other than me that is not working for a company and paying rent? Morris dancer maybe

A 40 hr week at minimum wage is almost double my pension. Don't fall for the media propaganda of rich pensioners please. What savings I have pushes me into tax due to the interest payments, just. I would have dreamed of a six figure salary. Mine is only 6 figures if you include the pence.

I paid rent/ a mortgage for 45 years before I retired.

yes but now you own your house being paid 12.5k state pension and owning a house leaves you 12.5k. And when you say "A 40 hr week at minimum wage is almost double my pension." Do you mean double my pension total or double my public sector pension which as I recall you are a public sector worker. If you have a pension of 11k for example to add to your state pension and mortgage free thats a lot different

In 2 years my income will be equivalent to minimum wage.

But you own your home? So you won't have to pay housing costs?

I pay poll tax and house insurance and utility bills and maintenance. Nobody gave me a house, payments over the years wasn't easy to manage.

Well no. But rather eaiser than for subsequent generations.
You have no rent or mortgage to pay and you have sufficient means that you don't have to work despite being below pensionable age. You may not feel rich, but you are better off than 90% of people in the country.

rottenborough said:

The forthcoming battle for the soul of the constitution of USA in a nutshell:



Acyn
@Acyn
·
2h
When asked if the Administration will comply with court orders on fired federal workers, WH Press Secretary Leavitt says the orders are unconstitutional: You cannot have a low level district court judge filing an injunction to usurp the executive authority of the President…

https://x.com/Acyn/status/1900566376793718989


These people want to live in a monarchy. The very thing the American Revolution was about.

Cookie said:

OldKingCole said:

DavidL said:

I must confess that I am finding our politics so deeply depressing at the moment that I am finding it harder to even comment on it.

The leadership of the main parties is utterly uninspired and seems to have no idea what they want (other than to be in power). Reeves is a shockingly poor Chancellor whose initial budget has killed off growth in the UK, growth that is essential to make her numbers work. They Tories failed to address the real and substantial problems that we have in investment, excess consumption, balance of payments, debt and skills. Modest efforts such as Hunt's policy of allowing 100% write offs for investment were welcome but not even close to sufficient.

I personally find Reform repugnant. There is a deep underlying strand of racism, a determination to live on "alternative facts" and a reluctance to engage with real world problems. I will never vote for them.

The Lib Dems are teetering on the verge of total irrelevance and show no signs of any kind of breakthrough. The Greens are even worse. As for the SNP up here, words simply fail me.

I am now 63. I just missed voting in 1979. I cannot recall a time in my adult life where we had such a range of problems and no real hints of any solutions from anyone. We are not attracting people of the requisite talent into politics. Reform thrive on the None of the Above ticket. I personally put them at the top of the list for None of the Above but you can begin to understand peoples' frustration and irritation with what they are being offered. I am struggling to see how we fix this.

You are, David (if may call you that) jut a year or so older than my elder son and I have to say that agree with you about our politicians, although I'm very aware of the need NOT to look back to some long-ago Golden Age. I would not put many of Labour's current leaders in the same ability bracket as, say Robin Cook or Gordon Brown let alone Michael Foot, Denis Healey, or, going further back Harold Wilson or Aneurin Bevan. Yes they had their faults but they also had beliefs.
I wasn't a Thatcher fan, but she had a vision, mistaken though I thought it to be. And she was wise enough to have a 'critical friend' close to her. As well as able lieutenants.
As far as the LibDems are concerned, one cannot, absolutely cannot, realistically equate Ed Davey with Jo Gromond, David Steel or Paddy Ashdown. Jeremy Thorpe had massive clay feet but he was an inspirational speaker.
Reform scares me, to be honest.

I'm only 49, but I'm sceptical there was ever a golden period of competent politicians. Politics is incredibly difficult and required mastery of impossible swathes of detail. We award yesterday's politicians a gravitas they have now through experience but didn't have at the time. And previous generations didn't have to contend with social media or 24hr news.
Rachel Reeves is still the weakest chancellor of my lifetime by a country mile, mind you.

Mexicanpete said:

Conservative donor Mohammed Amersi on LBC going full HYUFD. He was talking with Farage at Trump's inauguration and he maintained that Nigel has plans to merge the Tory party with Reform to defeat Starmer. Amersi says Kemi is struggling and Cleverly's political future lies as Mayor of London. So Nige to run the nation as Tory PM, anyone?

Has anyone seen HYUFD and Mohammed Amersi in the same room?

Malmesbury said:

a

Taz said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

Pagan2 said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

Pagan2 said:

People on this board I think do fairly nicely from the lib/lab/con nothing changes position they might get a little less well off but not by much.....Thats a privliged postion not held by about 70% of people where a lot of the centrist policies of either of the three parties actually makes them worse off than they were before....don't think many here live in the world inhabited by most of the country

It's a view I suppose...

Suggest a reason to doubt what I said then, most pensioners here are on defined benefit pensions giving them a total income well above min wage...name one thats not....of those still working we have people like rochdale, richard tyndall, casino royale all have hinted at salaries 6 figures or more....even chb has said he is living in a parental house so not having to pay rent as I remember

Name one person other than me that is not working for a company and paying rent? Morris dancer maybe

A 40 hr week at minimum wage is almost double my pension. Don't fall for the media propaganda of rich pensioners please. What savings I have pushes me into tax due to the interest payments, just. I would have dreamed of a six figure salary. Mine is only 6 figures if you include the pence.

I paid rent/ a mortgage for 45 years before I retired.

Do you have private provision too ?

The quarter of a pensioners are millionaires line is based on their assets, so House and pension pot. It fails to take into account that pension pot has to pay their wages for the rest of their lives.

The state pension is effectively an asset worth £250K or thereabouts.

Pagan2 said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

Cookie said:

I'm not having a pop at you by the way Daveyboy. I'm pleased for you that you've got yourself into this position.

I don't take it personally, but we do live frugally.

I live frugally too doesnt help....I have in my house a computer desk and computer as I work from home, a dining table and a double bed....notice I didnt mention a tv, a stereo, a sofa there. I havent owned a car for 15 years though I have a licence...only time I go out is when I take my father out the home once a week and buy him a pint....how much more frugal should I get?

TimS said:

rottenborough said:

The forthcoming battle for the soul of the constitution of USA in a nutshell:



Acyn
@Acyn
·
2h
When asked if the Administration will comply with court orders on fired federal workers, WH Press Secretary Leavitt says the orders are unconstitutional: You cannot have a low level district court judge filing an injunction to usurp the executive authority of the President…

https://x.com/Acyn/status/1900566376793718989


These people want to live in a monarchy. The very thing the American Revolution was about.

The irony being if they were an actual constitutional monarchy there would be a far more powerful check on political power, because Trump could never say « l’état c’est moi »

Remember how lying to the queen was the most powerful criticism of Boris.

Daveyboy1961 said:

Pagan2 said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

Cookie said:

I'm not having a pop at you by the way Daveyboy. I'm pleased for you that you've got yourself into this position.

I don't take it personally, but we do live frugally.

I live frugally too doesnt help....I have in my house a computer desk and computer as I work from home, a dining table and a double bed....notice I didnt mention a tv, a stereo, a sofa there. I havent owned a car for 15 years though I have a licence...only time I go out is when I take my father out the home once a week and buy him a pint....how much more frugal should I get?

Wow, I am getting to realize how difficult you find managing. What do you do if you don't mind me asking?

Daveyboy1961 said:

Taz said:

Malmesbury said:

a

Taz said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

Pagan2 said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

Pagan2 said:

People on this board I think do fairly nicely from the lib/lab/con nothing changes position they might get a little less well off but not by much.....Thats a privliged postion not held by about 70% of people where a lot of the centrist policies of either of the three parties actually makes them worse off than they were before....don't think many here live in the world inhabited by most of the country

It's a view I suppose...

Suggest a reason to doubt what I said then, most pensioners here are on defined benefit pensions giving them a total income well above min wage...name one thats not....of those still working we have people like rochdale, richard tyndall, casino royale all have hinted at salaries 6 figures or more....even chb has said he is living in a parental house so not having to pay rent as I remember

Name one person other than me that is not working for a company and paying rent? Morris dancer maybe

A 40 hr week at minimum wage is almost double my pension. Don't fall for the media propaganda of rich pensioners please. What savings I have pushes me into tax due to the interest payments, just. I would have dreamed of a six figure salary. Mine is only 6 figures if you include the pence.

I paid rent/ a mortgage for 45 years before I retired.

Do you have private provision too ?

The quarter of a pensioners are millionaires line is based on their assets, so House and pension pot. It fails to take into account that pension pot has to pay their wages for the rest of their lives.

The state pension is effectively an asset worth £250K or thereabouts.

That’s a good point.

An asset which everyone receives if they have put in 35 years of NI credits.

Pagan2 said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

Pagan2 said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

Cookie said:

I'm not having a pop at you by the way Daveyboy. I'm pleased for you that you've got yourself into this position.

I don't take it personally, but we do live frugally.

I live frugally too doesnt help....I have in my house a computer desk and computer as I work from home, a dining table and a double bed....notice I didnt mention a tv, a stereo, a sofa there. I havent owned a car for 15 years though I have a licence...only time I go out is when I take my father out the home once a week and buy him a pint....how much more frugal should I get?

Wow, I am getting to realize how difficult you find managing. What do you do if you don't mind me asking?

I am a software engineer. High enough paid to pay 40% tax even....by the time I pay rent, council tax, mobile, internet, gas, electric however thats pretty much 70% gone and no I have a monthly giff gaff contract for 20£ so not spending on toys, I do spend money on taking my father out for a day from the home and that costs me about 400£ a month is my only extravagance

stodge said:

Evening all

As I pick up the pieces after another Cheltenham Festival and rejoice in the fact it's only three months or so until Royal Ascot and proper racing....

I'm roughly @DavidL's age and I understand his cri de coeur but I'm nowhere as pessimistic. In truth, many countries in the West are struggling - I spent nearly three months in New Zealand and can assure you their attempts at "austerity" are proving as useless as ours.

The fundamental is or are the demographics. Having 20% of the population over 65 unbalances or rebalances the economy. The growing demographic imbalance was known but Governments either wouldn't or couldn't confront it. Had retirement ages been raised earlier and further it might be better now.

You also have 20% of the workforce (pushing three million) who are economically inactive due to long term sickness. A declining workforce (numerically) and a growing number of economically active don't work well together if you are looking for economic growth.

It's reasonable to suppose technology will in time power a new phase of growth as it has so often before but when and how I've no clue.

The other change is the old notions of "left" and "right" no longer apply apart from as perjoratives. The relationship between State and citizen has changed out of all recognition in the past 30-40 years.

The politics of this is all parties have currently reached an ideological dead end - conservatism, socialism, social democracy, liberalism and authoritarian populism have all failed in one way or another yet new thinking will inevitably create either new ideologies or reboots of existing ideologies so politics will go on. One possible division could be over sustainability - "Green" politics (whatever that means) will be subsumed into existing ideologies, I suspect.

Daveyboy1961 said:

Pagan2 said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

Pagan2 said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

Cookie said:

I'm not having a pop at you by the way Daveyboy. I'm pleased for you that you've got yourself into this position.

I don't take it personally, but we do live frugally.

I live frugally too doesnt help....I have in my house a computer desk and computer as I work from home, a dining table and a double bed....notice I didnt mention a tv, a stereo, a sofa there. I havent owned a car for 15 years though I have a licence...only time I go out is when I take my father out the home once a week and buy him a pint....how much more frugal should I get?

Wow, I am getting to realize how difficult you find managing. What do you do if you don't mind me asking?

I am a software engineer. High enough paid to pay 40% tax even....by the time I pay rent, council tax, mobile, internet, gas, electric however thats pretty much 70% gone and no I have a monthly giff gaff contract for 20£ so not spending on toys, I do spend money on taking my father out for a day from the home and that costs me about 400£ a month is my only extravagance

Sounds difficult, I remember being in a similar situation when I was still teaching. Massive mortgage, all the usual bills. I wasn't in the 40% zone though. My wife who is older than me had a pension which helped with food bills.

Cookie said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

Taz said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

Pagan2 said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

Pagan2 said:

People on this board I think do fairly nicely from the lib/lab/con nothing changes position they might get a little less well off but not by much.....Thats a privliged postion not held by about 70% of people where a lot of the centrist policies of either of the three parties actually makes them worse off than they were before....don't think many here live in the world inhabited by most of the country

It's a view I suppose...

Suggest a reason to doubt what I said then, most pensioners here are on defined benefit pensions giving them a total income well above min wage...name one thats not....of those still working we have people like rochdale, richard tyndall, casino royale all have hinted at salaries 6 figures or more....even chb has said he is living in a parental house so not having to pay rent as I remember

Name one person other than me that is not working for a company and paying rent? Morris dancer maybe

A 40 hr week at minimum wage is almost double my pension. Don't fall for the media propaganda of rich pensioners please. What savings I have pushes me into tax due to the interest payments, just. I would have dreamed of a six figure salary. Mine is only 6 figures if you include the pence.

I paid rent/ a mortgage for 45 years before I retired.

Do you have private provision too ?

The quarter of a pensioners are millionaires line is based on their assets, so House and pension pot. It fails to take into account that pension pot has to pay their wages for the rest of their lives.

I am living on my private pension. I have 2 more years before the state pension kicks in.

So you've retired early? That doesn't sound like poverty either. And not a luxury the generation who come next are going to have.

Pagan2 said:

kle4 said:

Cookie said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

Taz said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

Pagan2 said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

Pagan2 said:

People on this board I think do fairly nicely from the lib/lab/con nothing changes position they might get a little less well off but not by much.....Thats a privliged postion not held by about 70% of people where a lot of the centrist policies of either of the three parties actually makes them worse off than they were before....don't think many here live in the world inhabited by most of the country

It's a view I suppose...

Suggest a reason to doubt what I said then, most pensioners here are on defined benefit pensions giving them a total income well above min wage...name one thats not....of those still working we have people like rochdale, richard tyndall, casino royale all have hinted at salaries 6 figures or more....even chb has said he is living in a parental house so not having to pay rent as I remember

Name one person other than me that is not working for a company and paying rent? Morris dancer maybe

A 40 hr week at minimum wage is almost double my pension. Don't fall for the media propaganda of rich pensioners please. What savings I have pushes me into tax due to the interest payments, just. I would have dreamed of a six figure salary. Mine is only 6 figures if you include the pence.

I paid rent/ a mortgage for 45 years before I retired.

Do you have private provision too ?

The quarter of a pensioners are millionaires line is based on their assets, so House and pension pot. It fails to take into account that pension pot has to pay their wages for the rest of their lives.

I am living on my private pension. I have 2 more years before the state pension kicks in.

So you've retired early? That doesn't sound like poverty either. And not a luxury the generation who come next are going to have.

I was told by a financial adviser we could both expect to die at our desks.

He was joking, but many might see it.

I expect to if they let me as I cant see a way to afford retiring

Daveyboy1961 said:

rottenborough said:

The forthcoming battle for the soul of the constitution of USA in a nutshell:



Acyn
@Acyn
·
2h
When asked if the Administration will comply with court orders on fired federal workers, WH Press Secretary Leavitt says the orders are unconstitutional: You cannot have a low level district court judge filing an injunction to usurp the executive authority of the President…

https://x.com/Acyn/status/1900566376793718989


These people want to live in a monarchy. The very thing the American Revolution was about.

This sounds like early steps to a dictatorship to be honest. Only obeying laws which suit him.

rcs1000 said:

stodge said:

Evening all

As I pick up the pieces after another Cheltenham Festival and rejoice in the fact it's only three months or so until Royal Ascot and proper racing....

I'm roughly @DavidL's age and I understand his cri de coeur but I'm nowhere as pessimistic. In truth, many countries in the West are struggling - I spent nearly three months in New Zealand and can assure you their attempts at "austerity" are proving as useless as ours.

The fundamental is or are the demographics. Having 20% of the population over 65 unbalances or rebalances the economy. The growing demographic imbalance was known but Governments either wouldn't or couldn't confront it. Had retirement ages been raised earlier and further it might be better now.

You also have 20% of the workforce (pushing three million) who are economically inactive due to long term sickness. A declining workforce (numerically) and a growing number of economically active don't work well together if you are looking for economic growth.

It's reasonable to suppose technology will in time power a new phase of growth as it has so often before but when and how I've no clue.

The other change is the old notions of "left" and "right" no longer apply apart from as perjoratives. The relationship between State and citizen has changed out of all recognition in the past 30-40 years.

The politics of this is all parties have currently reached an ideological dead end - conservatism, socialism, social democracy, liberalism and authoritarian populism have all failed in one way or another yet new thinking will inevitably create either new ideologies or reboots of existing ideologies so politics will go on. One possible division could be over sustainability - "Green" politics (whatever that means) will be subsumed into existing ideologies, I suspect.

Yes: but here's the thing.

If you discuss these challenges, and the necessity of raising the retirement age, and of finding ways of paying for social care, etc., then you don't get elected.

On the other hand, if you ignore these challenges and allow the imbalance between the number of workers and retirees to grow (aka Japan), then you get no economic growth, and you end up with retirees having all the political power, and therefore you make reform impossible.

So, governments (in the UK and Germany, and to a lesser extent elsewhere) have gone for the importing people to keep the population pyramid from getting too inverted, but lying about it so as to make sure they still get elected. Which negatively impacts housing availability, and massively reduces trust in politicians.

Pagan2 said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

Pagan2 said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

Pagan2 said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

Cookie said:

I'm not having a pop at you by the way Daveyboy. I'm pleased for you that you've got yourself into this position.

I don't take it personally, but we do live frugally.

I live frugally too doesnt help....I have in my house a computer desk and computer as I work from home, a dining table and a double bed....notice I didnt mention a tv, a stereo, a sofa there. I havent owned a car for 15 years though I have a licence...only time I go out is when I take my father out the home once a week and buy him a pint....how much more frugal should I get?

Wow, I am getting to realize how difficult you find managing. What do you do if you don't mind me asking?

I am a software engineer. High enough paid to pay 40% tax even....by the time I pay rent, council tax, mobile, internet, gas, electric however thats pretty much 70% gone and no I have a monthly giff gaff contract for 20£ so not spending on toys, I do spend money on taking my father out for a day from the home and that costs me about 400£ a month is my only extravagance

Sounds difficult, I remember being in a similar situation when I was still teaching. Massive mortgage, all the usual bills. I wasn't in the 40% zone though. My wife who is older than me had a pension which helped with food bills.

Then maybe just think about your current situation before complaining many people are worse off and mostly its not people who post here....I hit 67 if I can afford to retire/gets forced out the latter more likely I will still be paying all the rent and bills on about 3/4 of minimum wage total even including state pension....my father will have probably passed to save me that outlay at least but no idea how will cover the extra....frankly my pension and state pension will barely cover rent and council tax

stodge said:

rcs1000 said:

stodge said:

Evening all

As I pick up the pieces after another Cheltenham Festival and rejoice in the fact it's only three months or so until Royal Ascot and proper racing....

I'm roughly @DavidL's age and I understand his cri de coeur but I'm nowhere as pessimistic. In truth, many countries in the West are struggling - I spent nearly three months in New Zealand and can assure you their attempts at "austerity" are proving as useless as ours.

The fundamental is or are the demographics. Having 20% of the population over 65 unbalances or rebalances the economy. The growing demographic imbalance was known but Governments either wouldn't or couldn't confront it. Had retirement ages been raised earlier and further it might be better now.

You also have 20% of the workforce (pushing three million) who are economically inactive due to long term sickness. A declining workforce (numerically) and a growing number of economically active don't work well together if you are looking for economic growth.

It's reasonable to suppose technology will in time power a new phase of growth as it has so often before but when and how I've no clue.

The other change is the old notions of "left" and "right" no longer apply apart from as perjoratives. The relationship between State and citizen has changed out of all recognition in the past 30-40 years.

The politics of this is all parties have currently reached an ideological dead end - conservatism, socialism, social democracy, liberalism and authoritarian populism have all failed in one way or another yet new thinking will inevitably create either new ideologies or reboots of existing ideologies so politics will go on. One possible division could be over sustainability - "Green" politics (whatever that means) will be subsumed into existing ideologies, I suspect.

Yes: but here's the thing.

If you discuss these challenges, and the necessity of raising the retirement age, and of finding ways of paying for social care, etc., then you don't get elected.

On the other hand, if you ignore these challenges and allow the imbalance between the number of workers and retirees to grow (aka Japan), then you get no economic growth, and you end up with retirees having all the political power, and therefore you make reform impossible.

So, governments (in the UK and Germany, and to a lesser extent elsewhere) have gone for the importing people to keep the population pyramid from getting too inverted, but lying about it so as to make sure they still get elected. Which negatively impacts housing availability, and massively reduces trust in politicians.

You're not wrong and of course there's no point being in politics if you don't get the opportunity (via winning elections) to enact the policies in which you believe and which you believe would be the best for the country.

One might argue the problem since the defenestration of the Blessed Margaret all those years ago is instead of politicians trying to bring the electorate to them, they have gone running to where they think the electorate is.

Whether you call it populism or conviction isn't the point but the point is the terms of the public debate have to be set by the politicians not by the media or influencers or billionaires but that's what has happened.

There's an economic argument for large scale immigration and a stronger economic argument for managed immigration in key areas but at a time of economic stagnation those arguments seem to hold little water for those who are struggling to make ends meet.

Pagan2 said:

Pagan2 said:

kle4 said:

Cookie said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

Taz said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

Pagan2 said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

Pagan2 said:

People on this board I think do fairly nicely from the lib/lab/con nothing changes position they might get a little less well off but not by much.....Thats a privliged postion not held by about 70% of people where a lot of the centrist policies of either of the three parties actually makes them worse off than they were before....don't think many here live in the world inhabited by most of the country

It's a view I suppose...

Suggest a reason to doubt what I said then, most pensioners here are on defined benefit pensions giving them a total income well above min wage...name one thats not....of those still working we have people like rochdale, richard tyndall, casino royale all have hinted at salaries 6 figures or more....even chb has said he is living in a parental house so not having to pay rent as I remember

Name one person other than me that is not working for a company and paying rent? Morris dancer maybe

A 40 hr week at minimum wage is almost double my pension. Don't fall for the media propaganda of rich pensioners please. What savings I have pushes me into tax due to the interest payments, just. I would have dreamed of a six figure salary. Mine is only 6 figures if you include the pence.

I paid rent/ a mortgage for 45 years before I retired.

Do you have private provision too ?

The quarter of a pensioners are millionaires line is based on their assets, so House and pension pot. It fails to take into account that pension pot has to pay their wages for the rest of their lives.

I am living on my private pension. I have 2 more years before the state pension kicks in.

So you've retired early? That doesn't sound like poverty either. And not a luxury the generation who come next are going to have.

I was told by a financial adviser we could both expect to die at our desks.

He was joking, but many might see it.

I expect to if they let me as I cant see a way to afford retiring

I think in future the only retirees will be defined benefit pensioners and they haven't thought out how that will go down with the general public who will largely be paying for those

TimS said:

Cookie said:

OldKingCole said:

DavidL said:

I must confess that I am finding our politics so deeply depressing at the moment that I am finding it harder to even comment on it.

The leadership of the main parties is utterly uninspired and seems to have no idea what they want (other than to be in power). Reeves is a shockingly poor Chancellor whose initial budget has killed off growth in the UK, growth that is essential to make her numbers work. They Tories failed to address the real and substantial problems that we have in investment, excess consumption, balance of payments, debt and skills. Modest efforts such as Hunt's policy of allowing 100% write offs for investment were welcome but not even close to sufficient.

I personally find Reform repugnant. There is a deep underlying strand of racism, a determination to live on "alternative facts" and a reluctance to engage with real world problems. I will never vote for them.

The Lib Dems are teetering on the verge of total irrelevance and show no signs of any kind of breakthrough. The Greens are even worse. As for the SNP up here, words simply fail me.

I am now 63. I just missed voting in 1979. I cannot recall a time in my adult life where we had such a range of problems and no real hints of any solutions from anyone. We are not attracting people of the requisite talent into politics. Reform thrive on the None of the Above ticket. I personally put them at the top of the list for None of the Above but you can begin to understand peoples' frustration and irritation with what they are being offered. I am struggling to see how we fix this.

You are, David (if may call you that) jut a year or so older than my elder son and I have to say that agree with you about our politicians, although I'm very aware of the need NOT to look back to some long-ago Golden Age. I would not put many of Labour's current leaders in the same ability bracket as, say Robin Cook or Gordon Brown let alone Michael Foot, Denis Healey, or, going further back Harold Wilson or Aneurin Bevan. Yes they had their faults but they also had beliefs.
I wasn't a Thatcher fan, but she had a vision, mistaken though I thought it to be. And she was wise enough to have a 'critical friend' close to her. As well as able lieutenants.
As far as the LibDems are concerned, one cannot, absolutely cannot, realistically equate Ed Davey with Jo Gromond, David Steel or Paddy Ashdown. Jeremy Thorpe had massive clay feet but he was an inspirational speaker.
Reform scares me, to be honest.

I'm only 49, but I'm sceptical there was ever a golden period of competent politicians. Politics is incredibly difficult and required mastery of impossible swathes of detail. We award yesterday's politicians a gravitas they have now through experience but didn't have at the time. And previous generations didn't have to contend with social media or 24hr news.
Rachel Reeves is still the weakest chancellor of my lifetime by a country mile, mind you.

I was about to post something similar, but I don’t even agree Reeves is the poorest chancellor of my lifetime.

Recent goings on in America have made me reassess where we are politically. It’s not that bad. Very online political people like us have a tendency to catastrophise. And there’s a sort of bias in all of us that assumes things aren’t as good as the old days. We remember the great statesmen and forget the shits.

What we have in current British politics is: a Labour governing party that is a bit uninspiring, with a seemingly mediocre chancellor but some decent cabinet ministers, at least some modicum of direction in policy making and a PM who is not an embarrassment on the world stage.

A main opposition party that has gone through a decade-long psychodrama and is struggling for a voice, but still by and large avoids out and out Trumpist mendacity and has a healthy internal debate without the cultishness of its American counterpart.

A liberal party that is, yes, often hypocritical when balancing national policy with local campaigning, but has a pretty decent set of 72 MPs and is criticised mainly for that local hypocrisy and lightweight stunts by its leader. None of which are particularly new complaints.

A green party that is no worse or more out of touch than its predecessors, and a populist right party that is, well, almost cuddly and centrist compared to its putinist or neonazi European brethren, or indeed the actual administration of the USA.

Nationalist and regionalist parties that rarely go beyond bog standard blaming of Westminster and are miles away from engineering a breakup of the Union.

We still have a parliament mainly filled with people who want to do what’s best for their communities and the country, and have plenty of competent, intelligent people amongst them.

kinabalu said:

‪Shashank Joshi‬ ‪@shashj.bsky.social‬
·
1m
‘Michael Kofman, a military analyst at Carnegie Endowment, described the claims of a mass encirclement as “fiction”.’

https://bsky.app/profile/shashj.bsky.social/post/3lkeasvjzzk2i

Pagan2 said:

Pagan2 said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

Pagan2 said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

Cookie said:

I'm not having a pop at you by the way Daveyboy. I'm pleased for you that you've got yourself into this position.

I don't take it personally, but we do live frugally.

I live frugally too doesnt help....I have in my house a computer desk and computer as I work from home, a dining table and a double bed....notice I didnt mention a tv, a stereo, a sofa there. I havent owned a car for 15 years though I have a licence...only time I go out is when I take my father out the home once a week and buy him a pint....how much more frugal should I get?

Wow, I am getting to realize how difficult you find managing. What do you do if you don't mind me asking?

I am a software engineer. High enough paid to pay 40% tax even....by the time I pay rent, council tax, mobile, internet, gas, electric however thats pretty much 70% gone and no I have a monthly giff gaff contract for 20£ so not spending on toys, I do spend money on taking my father out for a day from the home and that costs me about 400£ a month is my only extravagance

Just calcualated since 87 been in paye jobs apart from four years.....on my calculation 2025 - 1987 = 38 years - 4 for the years not been paye well 34 minimum.....why do they say 20 years

HYUFD said:

Mexicanpete said:

HYUFD said:

Mexicanpete said:

Conservative donor Mohammed Amersi on LBC going full HYUFD. He was talking with Farage at Trump's inauguration and he maintained that Nigel has plans to merge the Tory party with Reform to defeat Starmer. Amersi says Kemi is struggling and Cleverly's political future lies as Mayor of London. So Nige to run the nation as Tory PM, anyone?

Has anyone seen HYUFD and Mohammed Amersi in the same room?

Not happening as it would lose both parties votes, some Tories would go LD over Reform and some Reform voters would go to Tommy Robinson backed UKIP over a Reform merged with the Tories party.

So the Tories and Reform would probably win more seats combined than as one party

Amersi seemed very confident and he'd certainly drunk the Farage Koolade.

If Jenrick or Rees Mogg became Tory leader it might be foreseeable under FPTP the Tories merged with Reform as policy wise they would be near identical just Reform more Nimby.

It certainly won't happen while Badenoch and Stride form the Tory leadership and if we ever got PR the parties would remain separate indefinitely only coming together post election to form a government potentially

Carnyx said:

Pagan2 said:

Pagan2 said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

Pagan2 said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

Cookie said:

I'm not having a pop at you by the way Daveyboy. I'm pleased for you that you've got yourself into this position.

I don't take it personally, but we do live frugally.

I live frugally too doesnt help....I have in my house a computer desk and computer as I work from home, a dining table and a double bed....notice I didnt mention a tv, a stereo, a sofa there. I havent owned a car for 15 years though I have a licence...only time I go out is when I take my father out the home once a week and buy him a pint....how much more frugal should I get?

Wow, I am getting to realize how difficult you find managing. What do you do if you don't mind me asking?

I am a software engineer. High enough paid to pay 40% tax even....by the time I pay rent, council tax, mobile, internet, gas, electric however thats pretty much 70% gone and no I have a monthly giff gaff contract for 20£ so not spending on toys, I do spend money on taking my father out for a day from the home and that costs me about 400£ a month is my only extravagance

Just calcualated since 87 been in paye jobs apart from four years.....on my calculation 2025 - 1987 = 38 years - 4 for the years not been paye well 34 minimum.....why do they say 20 years

Phone them. Both DWP and HMRC. The websites have been unreliable in my experience, still more so the advice on how best to fill gaps without overpaying.

And look at Which and Martin Lewis websites to see what they say, if you haven't..

Pagan2 said:

Carnyx said:

Pagan2 said:

Pagan2 said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

Pagan2 said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

Cookie said:

I'm not having a pop at you by the way Daveyboy. I'm pleased for you that you've got yourself into this position.

I don't take it personally, but we do live frugally.

I live frugally too doesnt help....I have in my house a computer desk and computer as I work from home, a dining table and a double bed....notice I didnt mention a tv, a stereo, a sofa there. I havent owned a car for 15 years though I have a licence...only time I go out is when I take my father out the home once a week and buy him a pint....how much more frugal should I get?

Wow, I am getting to realize how difficult you find managing. What do you do if you don't mind me asking?

I am a software engineer. High enough paid to pay 40% tax even....by the time I pay rent, council tax, mobile, internet, gas, electric however thats pretty much 70% gone and no I have a monthly giff gaff contract for 20£ so not spending on toys, I do spend money on taking my father out for a day from the home and that costs me about 400£ a month is my only extravagance

Just calcualated since 87 been in paye jobs apart from four years.....on my calculation 2025 - 1987 = 38 years - 4 for the years not been paye well 34 minimum.....why do they say 20 years

Phone them. Both DWP and HMRC. The websites have been unreliable in my experience, still more so the advice on how best to fill gaps without overpaying.

And look at Which and Martin Lewis websites to see what they say, if you haven't..

Don't have time sadly or energy too busy trying to sort out my fathers affairs

Mexicanpete said:

kinabalu said:

‪Shashank Joshi‬ ‪@shashj.bsky.social‬
·
1m
‘Michael Kofman, a military analyst at Carnegie Endowment, described the claims of a mass encirclement as “fiction”.’

https://bsky.app/profile/shashj.bsky.social/post/3lkeasvjzzk2i

Donald Trump has intervened to ask that Ukrainian soldiers not be killed if they surrender. And Vladimir Putin has agreed to this.

There's a precedent for the Nobel Peace Prize to be shared, I think?

Pagan2 said:

williamglenn said:

Mexicanpete said:

kinabalu said:

Donald Trump has intervened to ask that Ukrainian soldiers not be killed if they surrender. And Vladimir Putin has agreed to this.

There's a precedent for the Nobel Peace Prize to be shared, I think?

Joint award to Trump and Putin? The Reagan and Gorbachev of the age. I believe we also need to chip off Teddy Roosevelt from Mount Rushmore and cement in an image of Donald by Trump.

Jointly bringing to an end the terrible war started by Joe Biden?

I would love to think you are joking here but sadly dont think you are

kle4 said:

Pagan2 said:

williamglenn said:

Mexicanpete said:

kinabalu said:

Donald Trump has intervened to ask that Ukrainian soldiers not be killed if they surrender. And Vladimir Putin has agreed to this.

There's a precedent for the Nobel Peace Prize to be shared, I think?

Joint award to Trump and Putin? The Reagan and Gorbachev of the age. I believe we also need to chip off Teddy Roosevelt from Mount Rushmore and cement in an image of Donald by Trump.

Jointly bringing to an end the terrible war started by Joe Biden?

I would love to think you are joking here but sadly dont think you are

Not enough nudges and winks to be ironic after all that went before.

Carnyx said:

Pagan2 said:

Pagan2 said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

Pagan2 said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

Cookie said:

I'm not having a pop at you by the way Daveyboy. I'm pleased for you that you've got yourself into this position.

I don't take it personally, but we do live frugally.

I live frugally too doesnt help....I have in my house a computer desk and computer as I work from home, a dining table and a double bed....notice I didnt mention a tv, a stereo, a sofa there. I havent owned a car for 15 years though I have a licence...only time I go out is when I take my father out the home once a week and buy him a pint....how much more frugal should I get?

Wow, I am getting to realize how difficult you find managing. What do you do if you don't mind me asking?

I am a software engineer. High enough paid to pay 40% tax even....by the time I pay rent, council tax, mobile, internet, gas, electric however thats pretty much 70% gone and no I have a monthly giff gaff contract for 20£ so not spending on toys, I do spend money on taking my father out for a day from the home and that costs me about 400£ a month is my only extravagance

Just calcualated since 87 been in paye jobs apart from four years.....on my calculation 2025 - 1987 = 38 years - 4 for the years not been paye well 34 minimum.....why do they say 20 years

Phone them. Both DWP and HMRC. The websites have been unreliable in my experience, still more so the advice on how best to fill gaps without overpaying.

And look at Which and Martin Lewis websites to see what they say, if you haven't..

Mexicanpete said:

williamglenn said:

Mexicanpete said:

kinabalu said:

Donald Trump has intervened to ask that Ukrainian soldiers not be killed if they surrender. And Vladimir Putin has agreed to this.

There's a precedent for the Nobel Peace Prize to be shared, I think?

Joint award to Trump and Putin? The Reagan and Gorbachev of the age. I believe we also need to chip off Teddy Roosevelt from Mount Rushmore and cement in an image of Donald by Trump.

Jointly bringing to an end the terrible war started by Joe Biden?

You deserve to be awarded a gratis Cybertruck for that kind of loyalty.

Daveyboy1961 said:

Carnyx said:

Pagan2 said:

Pagan2 said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

Pagan2 said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

Cookie said:

I'm not having a pop at you by the way Daveyboy. I'm pleased for you that you've got yourself into this position.

I don't take it personally, but we do live frugally.

I live frugally too doesnt help....I have in my house a computer desk and computer as I work from home, a dining table and a double bed....notice I didnt mention a tv, a stereo, a sofa there. I havent owned a car for 15 years though I have a licence...only time I go out is when I take my father out the home once a week and buy him a pint....how much more frugal should I get?

Wow, I am getting to realize how difficult you find managing. What do you do if you don't mind me asking?

I am a software engineer. High enough paid to pay 40% tax even....by the time I pay rent, council tax, mobile, internet, gas, electric however thats pretty much 70% gone and no I have a monthly giff gaff contract for 20£ so not spending on toys, I do spend money on taking my father out for a day from the home and that costs me about 400£ a month is my only extravagance

Just calcualated since 87 been in paye jobs apart from four years.....on my calculation 2025 - 1987 = 38 years - 4 for the years not been paye well 34 minimum.....why do they say 20 years

Phone them. Both DWP and HMRC. The websites have been unreliable in my experience, still more so the advice on how best to fill gaps without overpaying.

And look at Which and Martin Lewis websites to see what they say, if you haven't..

The website does list the years in detail that are fully paid, or not, so Pagan could use that data to locate the companies he was looking for at the time. Maybe they didn't send off the NI money or had got his NI number wrong?

Pagan2 said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

Carnyx said:

Pagan2 said:

Pagan2 said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

Pagan2 said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

Cookie said:

I'm not having a pop at you by the way Daveyboy. I'm pleased for you that you've got yourself into this position.

I don't take it personally, but we do live frugally.

I live frugally too doesnt help....I have in my house a computer desk and computer as I work from home, a dining table and a double bed....notice I didnt mention a tv, a stereo, a sofa there. I havent owned a car for 15 years though I have a licence...only time I go out is when I take my father out the home once a week and buy him a pint....how much more frugal should I get?

Wow, I am getting to realize how difficult you find managing. What do you do if you don't mind me asking?

I am a software engineer. High enough paid to pay 40% tax even....by the time I pay rent, council tax, mobile, internet, gas, electric however thats pretty much 70% gone and no I have a monthly giff gaff contract for 20£ so not spending on toys, I do spend money on taking my father out for a day from the home and that costs me about 400£ a month is my only extravagance

Just calcualated since 87 been in paye jobs apart from four years.....on my calculation 2025 - 1987 = 38 years - 4 for the years not been paye well 34 minimum.....why do they say 20 years

Phone them. Both DWP and HMRC. The websites have been unreliable in my experience, still more so the advice on how best to fill gaps without overpaying.

And look at Which and Martin Lewis websites to see what they say, if you haven't..

The website does list the years in detail that are fully paid, or not, so Pagan could use that data to locate the companies he was looking for at the time. Maybe they didn't send off the NI money or had got his NI number wrong?

Only worth my time if I expect to be a pensioner which I dont

OldKingCole said:

HYUFD said:

Mexicanpete said:

HYUFD said:

Mexicanpete said:

Conservative donor Mohammed Amersi on LBC going full HYUFD. He was talking with Farage at Trump's inauguration and he maintained that Nigel has plans to merge the Tory party with Reform to defeat Starmer. Amersi says Kemi is struggling and Cleverly's political future lies as Mayor of London. So Nige to run the nation as Tory PM, anyone?

Has anyone seen HYUFD and Mohammed Amersi in the same room?

Not happening as it would lose both parties votes, some Tories would go LD over Reform and some Reform voters would go to Tommy Robinson backed UKIP over a Reform merged with the Tories party.

So the Tories and Reform would probably win more seats combined than as one party

Amersi seemed very confident and he'd certainly drunk the Farage Koolade.

If Jenrick or Rees Mogg became Tory leader it might be foreseeable under FPTP the Tories merged with Reform as policy wise they would be near identical just Reform more Nimby.

It certainly won't happen while Badenoch and Stride form the Tory leadership and if we ever got PR the parties would remain separate indefinitely only coming together post election to form a government potentially

Rees Mogg is out of Parliament, thankfully. How do you expect him to get back?

Cookie said:

kle4 said:

Cookie said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

Taz said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

Pagan2 said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

Pagan2 said:

People on this board I think do fairly nicely from the lib/lab/con nothing changes position they might get a little less well off but not by much.....Thats a privliged postion not held by about 70% of people where a lot of the centrist policies of either of the three parties actually makes them worse off than they were before....don't think many here live in the world inhabited by most of the country

It's a view I suppose...

Suggest a reason to doubt what I said then, most pensioners here are on defined benefit pensions giving them a total income well above min wage...name one thats not....of those still working we have people like rochdale, richard tyndall, casino royale all have hinted at salaries 6 figures or more....even chb has said he is living in a parental house so not having to pay rent as I remember

Name one person other than me that is not working for a company and paying rent? Morris dancer maybe

A 40 hr week at minimum wage is almost double my pension. Don't fall for the media propaganda of rich pensioners please. What savings I have pushes me into tax due to the interest payments, just. I would have dreamed of a six figure salary. Mine is only 6 figures if you include the pence.

I paid rent/ a mortgage for 45 years before I retired.

Do you have private provision too ?

The quarter of a pensioners are millionaires line is based on their assets, so House and pension pot. It fails to take into account that pension pot has to pay their wages for the rest of their lives.

I am living on my private pension. I have 2 more years before the state pension kicks in.

So you've retired early? That doesn't sound like poverty either. And not a luxury the generation who come next are going to have.

I was told by a financial adviser we could both expect to die at our desks.

He was joking, but many might see it.

Yes, I'll be pleasantly surprised if I retire before I die.

Pagan2 said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

Pagan2 said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

Carnyx said:

Pagan2 said:

Pagan2 said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

Pagan2 said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

Cookie said:

I'm not having a pop at you by the way Daveyboy. I'm pleased for you that you've got yourself into this position.

I don't take it personally, but we do live frugally.

I live frugally too doesnt help....I have in my house a computer desk and computer as I work from home, a dining table and a double bed....notice I didnt mention a tv, a stereo, a sofa there. I havent owned a car for 15 years though I have a licence...only time I go out is when I take my father out the home once a week and buy him a pint....how much more frugal should I get?

Wow, I am getting to realize how difficult you find managing. What do you do if you don't mind me asking?

I am a software engineer. High enough paid to pay 40% tax even....by the time I pay rent, council tax, mobile, internet, gas, electric however thats pretty much 70% gone and no I have a monthly giff gaff contract for 20£ so not spending on toys, I do spend money on taking my father out for a day from the home and that costs me about 400£ a month is my only extravagance

Just calcualated since 87 been in paye jobs apart from four years.....on my calculation 2025 - 1987 = 38 years - 4 for the years not been paye well 34 minimum.....why do they say 20 years

Phone them. Both DWP and HMRC. The websites have been unreliable in my experience, still more so the advice on how best to fill gaps without overpaying.

And look at Which and Martin Lewis websites to see what they say, if you haven't..

The website does list the years in detail that are fully paid, or not, so Pagan could use that data to locate the companies he was looking for at the time. Maybe they didn't send off the NI money or had got his NI number wrong?

Only worth my time if I expect to be a pensioner which I dont

You can still work and collect your pension you know. It may help.

Assuming I live till 67 which I dont