The first poll in the Runcorn & Helsby by-election – politicalbetting.com

System · 2:59PM

The first poll in the Runcorn & Helsby by-election – politicalbetting.com

As Lord Ashcroft can attest by-election polling can be very challenging so I always remain sceptical about all by-election polling but there are some hope for both Reform and Labour in the supplementaries.

Read the full story here

Pagan2 · 3:00PM

first?

Sunil_Prasannan · 3:01PM

Governor Carney about to be sworn in.

Pagan2 · 3:02PM

Sunil_Prasannan said:
Governor Carney about to be sworn in.

Judging by his boe performance he should be sworn at

rottenborough · 3:05PM

From past thread:

Gold Cup.

I have gone Inotherwayurthinkin to win and EW on Corbetts Cross.

I haven't a clue about horses though.

rottenborough · 3:05PM

Pagan2 said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:
Governor Carney about to be sworn in.
Judging by his boe performance he should be sworn at

Rearmy Carney.

Mexicanpete · 3:12PM

Pagan2 said:

Mexicanpete said:

dixiedean said:
I'm still Labour.
Not sure how you can be enthusiastic for doing a small proportion of what has to be done in very difficult circumstances. Often in a cack-handed manner.
TINA right now.
It must be getting harder with sweeping policy revolutions like the unpleasant rhetoric surrounding benefits. Yes the benefits system needs reforming, but othering the disabled is downright nasty. I'm coming over all BJO.
Can you suggest how to reform the benefits system without othering someone? It will always be portrayed as such by the left

Make the focus on getting people who want to work into work, rather than suggesting people with MS are workshy, which is how it came over. Not so easy when 9,000 people have just been made redundant at NHS England*.

* I agree with abolishing NHS England.

Pagan2 · 3:15PM

Mexicanpete said:

Pagan2 said:

Mexicanpete said:

dixiedean said:
I'm still Labour.
Not sure how you can be enthusiastic for doing a small proportion of what has to be done in very difficult circumstances. Often in a cack-handed manner.
TINA right now.
It must be getting harder with sweeping policy revolutions like the unpleasant rhetoric surrounding benefits. Yes the benefits system needs reforming, but othering the disabled is downright nasty. I'm coming over all BJO.
Can you suggest how to reform the benefits system without othering someone? It will always be portrayed as such by the left
Make the focus on getting people who want to work into work, rather than suggesting people with MS are workshy, which is how it came over. Not so easy when 9,000 people have just been made redundant at NHS England*.

* I agree with abolishing NHS England.

We need to train people sadly governements both tory and new labour have fallen for the we can bring trained people in from overseas so business doesn't have to pay to train people. Result we have those unemployables because it will take time to get them up to speed so they are giving the company more profit than employing them does

MaxPB · 3:15PM

Germany have done a deal on their defence fund which is great news, hopefully we start working with them ASAP along with France on filling gaps in continent wide security and intelligence while they clean house at their intelligence agencies for Russian infiltration which has historically been an issue. It would be good to have a European three eyes intelligence sharing agreement between France, Germany and the UK now that the Germans are showing they are serious about defending themselves.

dixiedean · 3:20PM

Meanwhile.
Donald was blissfully unaware he hadn't spoken to Putin.
Unless all his acolytes are emanations, which is possible I suppose. (Otherwise where would you get that cast of grotesques from independently?).

Mexicanpete · 3:21PM

Pagan2 said:

Mexicanpete said:

Pagan2 said:

Mexicanpete said:

dixiedean said:
I'm still Labour.
Not sure how you can be enthusiastic for doing a small proportion of what has to be done in very difficult circumstances. Often in a cack-handed manner.
TINA right now.
It must be getting harder with sweeping policy revolutions like the unpleasant rhetoric surrounding benefits. Yes the benefits system needs reforming, but othering the disabled is downright nasty. I'm coming over all BJO.
Can you suggest how to reform the benefits system without othering someone? It will always be portrayed as such by the left
Make the focus on getting people who want to work into work, rather than suggesting people with MS are workshy, which is how it came over. Not so easy when 9,000 people have just been made redundant at NHS England*.

* I agree with abolishing NHS England.
We need to train people sadly governements both tory and new labour have fallen for the we can bring trained people in from overseas so business doesn't have to pay to train people. Result we have those unemployables because it will take time to get them up to speed so they are giving the company more profit than employing them does

That is essentially true. Back in the later 2000s importing educated Eastern Europeans to be several times more productive than poorly educated locals was compelling for businesses. I saw it first hand.

Still we Brexited and the foreigners all went home. So all is good.

williamglenn · 3:28PM

Mexicanpete said:

Pagan2 said:

Mexicanpete said:

Pagan2 said:

Mexicanpete said:

dixiedean said:
I'm still Labour.
Not sure how you can be enthusiastic for doing a small proportion of what has to be done in very difficult circumstances. Often in a cack-handed manner.
TINA right now.
It must be getting harder with sweeping policy revolutions like the unpleasant rhetoric surrounding benefits. Yes the benefits system needs reforming, but othering the disabled is downright nasty. I'm coming over all BJO.
Can you suggest how to reform the benefits system without othering someone? It will always be portrayed as such by the left
Make the focus on getting people who want to work into work, rather than suggesting people with MS are workshy, which is how it came over. Not so easy when 9,000 people have just been made redundant at NHS England*.

* I agree with abolishing NHS England.
We need to train people sadly governements both tory and new labour have fallen for the we can bring trained people in from overseas so business doesn't have to pay to train people. Result we have those unemployables because it will take time to get them up to speed so they are giving the company more profit than employing them does
That is essentially true. Back in the later 2000s importing educated Eastern Europeans to be several times more productive than poorly educated locals was compelling for businesses. I saw it first hand.

Still we Brexited and the foreigners all went home. So all is good.

There are more EU citizens in Britain now than there were in the 2000s...

Pagan2 · 3:28PM

Mexicanpete said:

Pagan2 said:

Mexicanpete said:

Pagan2 said:

Mexicanpete said:

dixiedean said:
I'm still Labour.
Not sure how you can be enthusiastic for doing a small proportion of what has to be done in very difficult circumstances. Often in a cack-handed manner.
TINA right now.
It must be getting harder with sweeping policy revolutions like the unpleasant rhetoric surrounding benefits. Yes the benefits system needs reforming, but othering the disabled is downright nasty. I'm coming over all BJO.
Can you suggest how to reform the benefits system without othering someone? It will always be portrayed as such by the left
Make the focus on getting people who want to work into work, rather than suggesting people with MS are workshy, which is how it came over. Not so easy when 9,000 people have just been made redundant at NHS England*.

* I agree with abolishing NHS England.
We need to train people sadly governements both tory and new labour have fallen for the we can bring trained people in from overseas so business doesn't have to pay to train people. Result we have those unemployables because it will take time to get them up to speed so they are giving the company more profit than employing them does
That is essentially true. Back in the later 2000s importing educated Eastern Europeans to be several times more productive than poorly educated locals was compelling for businesses. I saw it first hand.

Still we Brexited and the foreigners all went home. So all is good.

Its not only that sadly....I am not a 10 percenter by any means some of my work colleagues however can absolutely see why companies dont want them, seems many of them take time off for anxiety when the get any criticism or told they aren't doing what was asked

Daveyboy1961 · 3:39PM

williamglenn said:

Mexicanpete said:

Pagan2 said:

Mexicanpete said:

Pagan2 said:

Mexicanpete said:

dixiedean said:
I'm still Labour.
Not sure how you can be enthusiastic for doing a small proportion of what has to be done in very difficult circumstances. Often in a cack-handed manner.
TINA right now.
It must be getting harder with sweeping policy revolutions like the unpleasant rhetoric surrounding benefits. Yes the benefits system needs reforming, but othering the disabled is downright nasty. I'm coming over all BJO.
Can you suggest how to reform the benefits system without othering someone? It will always be portrayed as such by the left
Make the focus on getting people who want to work into work, rather than suggesting people with MS are workshy, which is how it came over. Not so easy when 9,000 people have just been made redundant at NHS England*.

* I agree with abolishing NHS England.
We need to train people sadly governements both tory and new labour have fallen for the we can bring trained people in from overseas so business doesn't have to pay to train people. Result we have those unemployables because it will take time to get them up to speed so they are giving the company more profit than employing them does
That is essentially true. Back in the later 2000s importing educated Eastern Europeans to be several times more productive than poorly educated locals was compelling for businesses. I saw it first hand.

Still we Brexited and the foreigners all went home. So all is good.
There are more EU citizens in Britain now than there were in the 2000s...

Source?

carnforth · 3:46PM

rottenborough said:
From past thread:

Gold Cup.

I have gone Inotherwayurthinkin to win and EW on Corbetts Cross.

I haven't a clue about horses though.

EW on Inotherwayurthinkin here. Don't know a damn thing.

Nigelb · 3:47PM

Taz said:

Dura_Ace said:

Luckyguy1983 said:
In a way it's a bit of a shame that Reform are doing so well in Runcorn polling, as if they walk it, Farage's fairly bad behaviour over Lowe will be rewarded.
That species of restless treachery is so inimical to Farage that you can't ascribe a moral cast to it like "bad behaviour".

It is as natural and necessary to him as breathing is to me or you.
That’s a terrific line and one Avon used to Servalan in an episode of,the seminal BBC sci,fi show Blakes 7.

It would be, except that 'inimical' is pretty well the opposite of 'intrinsic', which was probably meant.

williamglenn · 3:48PM

Daveyboy1961 said:

williamglenn said:

Mexicanpete said:

Pagan2 said:

Mexicanpete said:

Pagan2 said:

Mexicanpete said:

dixiedean said:
I'm still Labour.
Not sure how you can be enthusiastic for doing a small proportion of what has to be done in very difficult circumstances. Often in a cack-handed manner.
TINA right now.
It must be getting harder with sweeping policy revolutions like the unpleasant rhetoric surrounding benefits. Yes the benefits system needs reforming, but othering the disabled is downright nasty. I'm coming over all BJO.
Can you suggest how to reform the benefits system without othering someone? It will always be portrayed as such by the left
Make the focus on getting people who want to work into work, rather than suggesting people with MS are workshy, which is how it came over. Not so easy when 9,000 people have just been made redundant at NHS England*.

* I agree with abolishing NHS England.
We need to train people sadly governements both tory and new labour have fallen for the we can bring trained people in from overseas so business doesn't have to pay to train people. Result we have those unemployables because it will take time to get them up to speed so they are giving the company more profit than employing them does
That is essentially true. Back in the later 2000s importing educated Eastern Europeans to be several times more productive than poorly educated locals was compelling for businesses. I saw it first hand.

Still we Brexited and the foreigners all went home. So all is good.
There are more EU citizens in Britain now than there were in the 2000s...
Source?

https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/eu-migration-to-and-from-the-uk/

In 2021, there were approximately 4 million EU-born residents in the UK, according to Census data from England, Wales, and Northern Ireland, and survey-based data from Scotland (see Understanding the Evidence). The number of EU-born residents in the UK increased by around 50% between the 2011 and 2021 Census (from 2.7 million), reflecting a decade of positive net migration.

Dopermean · 3:49PM

Daveyboy1961 said:

williamglenn said:

Mexicanpete said:

Pagan2 said:

Mexicanpete said:

Pagan2 said:

Mexicanpete said:

dixiedean said:
I'm still Labour.
Not sure how you can be enthusiastic for doing a small proportion of what has to be done in very difficult circumstances. Often in a cack-handed manner.
TINA right now.
It must be getting harder with sweeping policy revolutions like the unpleasant rhetoric surrounding benefits. Yes the benefits system needs reforming, but othering the disabled is downright nasty. I'm coming over all BJO.
Can you suggest how to reform the benefits system without othering someone? It will always be portrayed as such by the left
Make the focus on getting people who want to work into work, rather than suggesting people with MS are workshy, which is how it came over. Not so easy when 9,000 people have just been made redundant at NHS England*.

* I agree with abolishing NHS England.
We need to train people sadly governements both tory and new labour have fallen for the we can bring trained people in from overseas so business doesn't have to pay to train people. Result we have those unemployables because it will take time to get them up to speed so they are giving the company more profit than employing them does
That is essentially true. Back in the later 2000s importing educated Eastern Europeans to be several times more productive than poorly educated locals was compelling for businesses. I saw it first hand.

Still we Brexited and the foreigners all went home. So all is good.
There are more EU citizens in Britain now than there were in the 2000s...
Source?

That'll be all the Brexit campaigners who've applied for EU passports.

carnforth · 3:49PM

williamglenn said:

Mexicanpete said:

Pagan2 said:

Mexicanpete said:

Pagan2 said:

Mexicanpete said:

dixiedean said:
I'm still Labour.
Not sure how you can be enthusiastic for doing a small proportion of what has to be done in very difficult circumstances. Often in a cack-handed manner.
TINA right now.
It must be getting harder with sweeping policy revolutions like the unpleasant rhetoric surrounding benefits. Yes the benefits system needs reforming, but othering the disabled is downright nasty. I'm coming over all BJO.
Can you suggest how to reform the benefits system without othering someone? It will always be portrayed as such by the left
Make the focus on getting people who want to work into work, rather than suggesting people with MS are workshy, which is how it came over. Not so easy when 9,000 people have just been made redundant at NHS England*.

* I agree with abolishing NHS England.
We need to train people sadly governements both tory and new labour have fallen for the we can bring trained people in from overseas so business doesn't have to pay to train people. Result we have those unemployables because it will take time to get them up to speed so they are giving the company more profit than employing them does
That is essentially true. Back in the later 2000s importing educated Eastern Europeans to be several times more productive than poorly educated locals was compelling for businesses. I saw it first hand.

Still we Brexited and the foreigners all went home. So all is good.
There are more EU citizens in Britain now than there were in the 2000s...

... posted wrong stats, ignore...

FrancisUrquhart · 3:49PM

A senior civil servant tricked the Government into paying him for three full-time jobs as he used working from home to help him to go undetected for at least two years.

Cabinet Office documents reveal the man worked for both the Department for Environment, Food & Rural Affairs (Defra) and the Department for Health and Social Care (DHSC) between 2022 and 2024.

It added that the official held three jobs at the same time on two separate occasions and was only identified when a government fraud squad stepped in.

The case, first reported by the i newspaper, showed the senior civil servant, who held higher security clearances in two government departments, was able to avoid initial detection by lying about his employment history.

Daveyboy1961 · 3:50PM

williamglenn said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

williamglenn said:

Mexicanpete said:

Pagan2 said:

Mexicanpete said:

Pagan2 said:

Mexicanpete said:

dixiedean said:
I'm still Labour.
Not sure how you can be enthusiastic for doing a small proportion of what has to be done in very difficult circumstances. Often in a cack-handed manner.
TINA right now.
It must be getting harder with sweeping policy revolutions like the unpleasant rhetoric surrounding benefits. Yes the benefits system needs reforming, but othering the disabled is downright nasty. I'm coming over all BJO.
Can you suggest how to reform the benefits system without othering someone? It will always be portrayed as such by the left
Make the focus on getting people who want to work into work, rather than suggesting people with MS are workshy, which is how it came over. Not so easy when 9,000 people have just been made redundant at NHS England*.

* I agree with abolishing NHS England.
We need to train people sadly governements both tory and new labour have fallen for the we can bring trained people in from overseas so business doesn't have to pay to train people. Result we have those unemployables because it will take time to get them up to speed so they are giving the company more profit than employing them does
That is essentially true. Back in the later 2000s importing educated Eastern Europeans to be several times more productive than poorly educated locals was compelling for businesses. I saw it first hand.

Still we Brexited and the foreigners all went home. So all is good.
There are more EU citizens in Britain now than there were in the 2000s...
Source?
https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/eu-migration-to-and-from-the-uk/

In 2021, there were approximately 4 million EU-born residents in the UK, according to Census data from England, Wales, and Northern Ireland, and survey-based data from Scotland (see Understanding the Evidence). The number of EU-born residents in the UK increased by around 50% between the 2011 and 2021 Census (from 2.7 million), reflecting a decade of positive net migration.

Now?
Haven't we brexited since then?

Carnyx · 3:51PM

williamglenn said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

williamglenn said:

Mexicanpete said:

Pagan2 said:

Mexicanpete said:

Pagan2 said:

Mexicanpete said:

dixiedean said:
I'm still Labour.
Not sure how you can be enthusiastic for doing a small proportion of what has to be done in very difficult circumstances. Often in a cack-handed manner.
TINA right now.
It must be getting harder with sweeping policy revolutions like the unpleasant rhetoric surrounding benefits. Yes the benefits system needs reforming, but othering the disabled is downright nasty. I'm coming over all BJO.
Can you suggest how to reform the benefits system without othering someone? It will always be portrayed as such by the left
Make the focus on getting people who want to work into work, rather than suggesting people with MS are workshy, which is how it came over. Not so easy when 9,000 people have just been made redundant at NHS England*.

* I agree with abolishing NHS England.
We need to train people sadly governements both tory and new labour have fallen for the we can bring trained people in from overseas so business doesn't have to pay to train people. Result we have those unemployables because it will take time to get them up to speed so they are giving the company more profit than employing them does
That is essentially true. Back in the later 2000s importing educated Eastern Europeans to be several times more productive than poorly educated locals was compelling for businesses. I saw it first hand.

Still we Brexited and the foreigners all went home. So all is good.
There are more EU citizens in Britain now than there were in the 2000s...
Source?
https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/eu-migration-to-and-from-the-uk/

In 2021, there were approximately 4 million EU-born residents in the UK, according to Census data from England, Wales, and Northern Ireland, and survey-based data from Scotland (see Understanding the Evidence). The number of EU-born residents in the UK increased by around 50% between the 2011 and 2021 Census (from 2.7 million), reflecting a decade of positive net migration.

But some of those will be children of UK citizens in the first place, born where their parents were working.

carnforth · 3:53PM

A more useful graph. Census 2031 will be interesting.

MattW · 3:55PM

I've seen a better report of that "You were not legally entitled to sack all the thousands of probationary workers, and you will reinstate them all within 7 days" injunction. The order applies across multiple Government Departments.

It's a corker, and the Elon Musk "tear it all down" unit has been quite significantly disembowelled, subject to Appeal.

https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow/watch/-a-sham-federal-judge-blasts-trump-admin-on-improper-firings-of-federal-workers-orders-rehiring-234398789993

Andy_JS · 3:56PM

FrancisUrquhart said:
A senior civil servant tricked the Government into paying him for three full-time jobs as he used working from home to help him to go undetected for at least two years.

Cabinet Office documents reveal the man worked for both the Department for Environment, Food & Rural Affairs (Defra) and the Department for Health and Social Care (DHSC) between 2022 and 2024.

It added that the official held three jobs at the same time on two separate occasions and was only identified when a government fraud squad stepped in.

The case, first reported by the i newspaper, showed the senior civil servant, who held higher security clearances in two government departments, was able to avoid initial detection by lying about his employment history.

Mindboggling.

Alphabet_Soup · 3:57PM

Mexicanpete said:

Pagan2 said:

Mexicanpete said:

Pagan2 said:

Mexicanpete said:

dixiedean said:
I'm still Labour.
Not sure how you can be enthusiastic for doing a small proportion of what has to be done in very difficult circumstances. Often in a cack-handed manner.
TINA right now.
It must be getting harder with sweeping policy revolutions like the unpleasant rhetoric surrounding benefits. Yes the benefits system needs reforming, but othering the disabled is downright nasty. I'm coming over all BJO.
Can you suggest how to reform the benefits system without othering someone? It will always be portrayed as such by the left
Make the focus on getting people who want to work into work, rather than suggesting people with MS are workshy, which is how it came over. Not so easy when 9,000 people have just been made redundant at NHS England*.

* I agree with abolishing NHS England.
We need to train people sadly governements both tory and new labour have fallen for the we can bring trained people in from overseas so business doesn't have to pay to train people. Result we have those unemployables because it will take time to get them up to speed so they are giving the company more profit than employing them does
That is essentially true. Back in the later 2000s importing educated Eastern Europeans to be several times more productive than poorly educated locals was compelling for businesses. I saw it first hand.

Still we Brexited and the foreigners all went home. So all is good.

Once upon a time you'd arrive at a run-down country hotel to be greeted rudely by a toothless hag with BO and a limp. Almost overnight she and her ilk were replaced by bright, young college graduates from eastern Europe. Although they may not have stayed for long there was a continuous stream of identikit replacements, and the effect on the hospitality industry was invigorating. The THs with BO+L got their own back in 2016.

OnlyLivingBoy · 3:58PM

FrancisUrquhart said:
A senior civil servant tricked the Government into paying him for three full-time jobs as he used working from home to help him to go undetected for at least two years.

Cabinet Office documents reveal the man worked for both the Department for Environment, Food & Rural Affairs (Defra) and the Department for Health and Social Care (DHSC) between 2022 and 2024.

It added that the official held three jobs at the same time on two separate occasions and was only identified when a government fraud squad stepped in.

The case, first reported by the i newspaper, showed the senior civil servant, who held higher security clearances in two government departments, was able to avoid initial detection by lying about his employment history.

Hopefully he's been promoted. If he can do three senior jobs at the same time he's clearly extremely productive!

Nigelb · 3:59PM

Let them go bust.
This is beyond taking the piss; it's outright contempt for government, regulator (who merits it), and customers.

Why the fuck should we bail them out again ?

Thames Water begs to be spared fines and costs warning bidders will walk away

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/mar/14/thames-water-asks-ofwat-to-be-spared-fines-costs
Thames Water is asking to be spared billions of pounds of costs and fines over the next five years and heap more on to bills so it can attract new investors, the Guardian can reveal.

The struggling water company is racing to find a buyer over the next eight weeks and is trying to persuade the regulator Ofwat to grant it significant leniency on penalties and extra costs, to attract bidders. That would mean customer bills rising by far more than the 35% it has been allowed...

dixiedean · 3:59PM

FrancisUrquhart said:
A senior civil servant tricked the Government into paying him for three full-time jobs as he used working from home to help him to go undetected for at least two years.

Cabinet Office documents reveal the man worked for both the Department for Environment, Food & Rural Affairs (Defra) and the Department for Health and Social Care (DHSC) between 2022 and 2024.

It added that the official held three jobs at the same time on two separate occasions and was only identified when a government fraud squad stepped in.

The case, first reported by the i newspaper, showed the senior civil servant, who held higher security clearances in two government departments, was able to avoid initial detection by lying about his employment history.

Disgraceful!
Only non-executive directors are allowed to have multiple jobs paying a fortune for sod all.

MattW · 3:59PM

Mexicanpete said:

Pagan2 said:

Mexicanpete said:

dixiedean said:
I'm still Labour.
Not sure how you can be enthusiastic for doing a small proportion of what has to be done in very difficult circumstances. Often in a cack-handed manner.
TINA right now.
It must be getting harder with sweeping policy revolutions like the unpleasant rhetoric surrounding benefits. Yes the benefits system needs reforming, but othering the disabled is downright nasty. I'm coming over all BJO.
Can you suggest how to reform the benefits system without othering someone? It will always be portrayed as such by the left
Make the focus on getting people who want to work into work, rather than suggesting people with MS are workshy, which is how it came over. Not so easy when 9,000 people have just been made redundant at NHS England*.

* I agree with abolishing NHS England.

That - AGAIN - looks to me like Labour taking a line that is defined by an attempt to respond to Conservative attacks, rather than writing the agenda themselves and making the others fight on *their* ground.

As I see it, that's one of the things Tories are also doing.

Mexicanpete · 3:59PM

williamglenn said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

williamglenn said:

Mexicanpete said:

Pagan2 said:

Mexicanpete said:

Pagan2 said:

Mexicanpete said:

dixiedean said:
I'm still Labour.
Not sure how you can be enthusiastic for doing a small proportion of what has to be done in very difficult circumstances. Often in a cack-handed manner.
TINA right now.
It must be getting harder with sweeping policy revolutions like the unpleasant rhetoric surrounding benefits. Yes the benefits system needs reforming, but othering the disabled is downright nasty. I'm coming over all BJO.
Can you suggest how to reform the benefits system without othering someone? It will always be portrayed as such by the left
Make the focus on getting people who want to work into work, rather than suggesting people with MS are workshy, which is how it came over. Not so easy when 9,000 people have just been made redundant at NHS England*.

* I agree with abolishing NHS England.
We need to train people sadly governements both tory and new labour have fallen for the we can bring trained people in from overseas so business doesn't have to pay to train people. Result we have those unemployables because it will take time to get them up to speed so they are giving the company more profit than employing them does
That is essentially true. Back in the later 2000s importing educated Eastern Europeans to be several times more productive than poorly educated locals was compelling for businesses. I saw it first hand.

Still we Brexited and the foreigners all went home. So all is good.
There are more EU citizens in Britain now than there were in the 2000s...
Source?
https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/eu-migration-to-and-from-the-uk/

In 2021, there were approximately 4 million EU-born residents in the UK, according to Census data from England, Wales, and Northern Ireland, and survey-based data from Scotland (see Understanding the Evidence). The number of EU-born residents in the UK increased by around 50% between the 2011 and 2021 Census (from 2.7 million), reflecting a decade of positive net migration.

That can't be right. You and I lost a referendum because Boris promised to get rid of European scroungers

carnforth · 4:00PM

Alphabet_Soup said:

Mexicanpete said:

Pagan2 said:

Mexicanpete said:

Pagan2 said:

Mexicanpete said:

dixiedean said:
I'm still Labour.
Not sure how you can be enthusiastic for doing a small proportion of what has to be done in very difficult circumstances. Often in a cack-handed manner.
TINA right now.
It must be getting harder with sweeping policy revolutions like the unpleasant rhetoric surrounding benefits. Yes the benefits system needs reforming, but othering the disabled is downright nasty. I'm coming over all BJO.
Can you suggest how to reform the benefits system without othering someone? It will always be portrayed as such by the left
Make the focus on getting people who want to work into work, rather than suggesting people with MS are workshy, which is how it came over. Not so easy when 9,000 people have just been made redundant at NHS England*.

* I agree with abolishing NHS England.
We need to train people sadly governements both tory and new labour have fallen for the we can bring trained people in from overseas so business doesn't have to pay to train people. Result we have those unemployables because it will take time to get them up to speed so they are giving the company more profit than employing them does
That is essentially true. Back in the later 2000s importing educated Eastern Europeans to be several times more productive than poorly educated locals was compelling for businesses. I saw it first hand.

Still we Brexited and the foreigners all went home. So all is good.
Once upon a time you'd arrive at a run-down country hotel to be greeted rudely by a toothless hag with BO and a limp. Almost overnight she and her ilk were replaced by bright, young college graduates from eastern Europe. Although they may not have stayed for long there was a continuous stream of identikit replacements, and the effect on the hospitality industry was invigorating. The THs with BO+L got their own back in 2016.

Thing is, we had to pay benefits to the hag to do nothing.

FeersumEnjineeya · 4:01PM

carnforth said:

A more useful graph. Census 2031 will be interesting.

My lad's one of them - British but born in Germany.

OnlyLivingBoy · 4:02PM

Dopermean said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

williamglenn said:

Mexicanpete said:

Pagan2 said:

Mexicanpete said:

Pagan2 said:

Mexicanpete said:

dixiedean said:
I'm still Labour.
Not sure how you can be enthusiastic for doing a small proportion of what has to be done in very difficult circumstances. Often in a cack-handed manner.
TINA right now.
It must be getting harder with sweeping policy revolutions like the unpleasant rhetoric surrounding benefits. Yes the benefits system needs reforming, but othering the disabled is downright nasty. I'm coming over all BJO.
Can you suggest how to reform the benefits system without othering someone? It will always be portrayed as such by the left
Make the focus on getting people who want to work into work, rather than suggesting people with MS are workshy, which is how it came over. Not so easy when 9,000 people have just been made redundant at NHS England*.

* I agree with abolishing NHS England.
We need to train people sadly governements both tory and new labour have fallen for the we can bring trained people in from overseas so business doesn't have to pay to train people. Result we have those unemployables because it will take time to get them up to speed so they are giving the company more profit than employing them does
That is essentially true. Back in the later 2000s importing educated Eastern Europeans to be several times more productive than poorly educated locals was compelling for businesses. I saw it first hand.

Still we Brexited and the foreigners all went home. So all is good.
There are more EU citizens in Britain now than there were in the 2000s...
Source?
That'll be all the Brexit campaigners who've applied for EU passports.

I was chatting about this with someone only this week (in the BA/JAL lounge at Frankfurt) who told me he knew several Brexit voters who had subsequently obtained EU passports... as well as a French/UK dual national who voted Leave as a Frenchman to kick the UK out of the EU. It's a funny old world, grr.

carnforth · 4:02PM

FeersumEnjineeya said:

carnforth said:

A more useful graph. Census 2031 will be interesting.
My lad's one of them - British but born in Germany.

But that's a tiny proportion. Come on...

MattW · 4:03PM

Carnyx said:

williamglenn said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

williamglenn said:

Mexicanpete said:

Pagan2 said:

Mexicanpete said:

Pagan2 said:

Mexicanpete said:

dixiedean said:
I'm still Labour.
Not sure how you can be enthusiastic for doing a small proportion of what has to be done in very difficult circumstances. Often in a cack-handed manner.
TINA right now.
It must be getting harder with sweeping policy revolutions like the unpleasant rhetoric surrounding benefits. Yes the benefits system needs reforming, but othering the disabled is downright nasty. I'm coming over all BJO.
Can you suggest how to reform the benefits system without othering someone? It will always be portrayed as such by the left
Make the focus on getting people who want to work into work, rather than suggesting people with MS are workshy, which is how it came over. Not so easy when 9,000 people have just been made redundant at NHS England*.

* I agree with abolishing NHS England.
We need to train people sadly governements both tory and new labour have fallen for the we can bring trained people in from overseas so business doesn't have to pay to train people. Result we have those unemployables because it will take time to get them up to speed so they are giving the company more profit than employing them does
That is essentially true. Back in the later 2000s importing educated Eastern Europeans to be several times more productive than poorly educated locals was compelling for businesses. I saw it first hand.

Still we Brexited and the foreigners all went home. So all is good.
There are more EU citizens in Britain now than there were in the 2000s...
Source?
https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/eu-migration-to-and-from-the-uk/

In 2021, there were approximately 4 million EU-born residents in the UK, according to Census data from England, Wales, and Northern Ireland, and survey-based data from Scotland (see Understanding the Evidence). The number of EU-born residents in the UK increased by around 50% between the 2011 and 2021 Census (from 2.7 million), reflecting a decade of positive net migration.
But some of those will be children of UK citizens in the first place, born where their parents were working.

Every person born in the UK between about 1993 and 2019 who is still here is an EU-born resident in the UK.

Gah.

Sean_F · 4:03PM

Nigelb said:
Let them go bust.
This is beyond taking the piss; it's outright contempt for government, regulator (who merits it), and customers.

Why the fuck should we bail them out again ?

Thames Water begs to be spared fines and costs warning bidders will walk away

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/mar/14/thames-water-asks-ofwat-to-be-spared-fines-costs
Thames Water is asking to be spared billions of pounds of costs and fines over the next five years and heap more on to bills so it can attract new investors, the Guardian can reveal.

The struggling water company is racing to find a buyer over the next eight weeks and is trying to persuade the regulator Ofwat to grant it significant leniency on penalties and extra costs, to attract bidders. That would mean customer bills rising by far more than the 35% it has been allowed...

They really are shameless, aren't they?

Eabhal · 4:03PM

dixiedean said:

FrancisUrquhart said:
A senior civil servant tricked the Government into paying him for three full-time jobs as he used working from home to help him to go undetected for at least two years.

Cabinet Office documents reveal the man worked for both the Department for Environment, Food & Rural Affairs (Defra) and the Department for Health and Social Care (DHSC) between 2022 and 2024.

It added that the official held three jobs at the same time on two separate occasions and was only identified when a government fraud squad stepped in.

The case, first reported by the i newspaper, showed the senior civil servant, who held higher security clearances in two government departments, was able to avoid initial detection by lying about his employment history.
Disgraceful!
Only non-executive directors are allowed to have multiple jobs paying a fortune for sod all.

I'm not sure this was the public sector productivity we were looking for.

Mexicanpete · 4:04PM

FeersumEnjineeya said:

carnforth said:

A more useful graph. Census 2031 will be interesting.
My lad's one of them - British but born in Germany.

Ah, so to an extent @williamglenn 's assertion is a tad misleading and hence disingenuous.

Eabhal · 4:04PM

Nigelb said:
Let them go bust.
This is beyond taking the piss; it's outright contempt for government, regulator (who merits it), and customers.

Why the fuck should we bail them out again ?

Thames Water begs to be spared fines and costs warning bidders will walk away

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/mar/14/thames-water-asks-ofwat-to-be-spared-fines-costs
Thames Water is asking to be spared billions of pounds of costs and fines over the next five years and heap more on to bills so it can attract new investors, the Guardian can reveal.

The struggling water company is racing to find a buyer over the next eight weeks and is trying to persuade the regulator Ofwat to grant it significant leniency on penalties and extra costs, to attract bidders. That would mean customer bills rising by far more than the 35% it has been allowed...

You've forgotten the golden rule - privatise the profits, nationalise the losses.

OnlyLivingBoy · 4:04PM

carnforth said:

FeersumEnjineeya said:

carnforth said:

A more useful graph. Census 2031 will be interesting.
My lad's one of them - British but born in Germany.
But that's a tiny proportion. Come on...

Two of my kids too!

dixiedean · 4:06PM

FeersumEnjineeya said:

carnforth said:

A more useful graph. Census 2031 will be interesting.
My lad's one of them - British but born in Germany.

As indeed is the fragrant Emma Watson amongst others.

Mexicanpete · 4:07PM

MattW said:

Mexicanpete said:

Pagan2 said:

Mexicanpete said:

dixiedean said:
I'm still Labour.
Not sure how you can be enthusiastic for doing a small proportion of what has to be done in very difficult circumstances. Often in a cack-handed manner.
TINA right now.
It must be getting harder with sweeping policy revolutions like the unpleasant rhetoric surrounding benefits. Yes the benefits system needs reforming, but othering the disabled is downright nasty. I'm coming over all BJO.
Can you suggest how to reform the benefits system without othering someone? It will always be portrayed as such by the left
Make the focus on getting people who want to work into work, rather than suggesting people with MS are workshy, which is how it came over. Not so easy when 9,000 people have just been made redundant at NHS England*.

* I agree with abolishing NHS England.
That - AGAIN - looks to me like Labour taking a line that is defined by an attempt to respond to Conservative attacks, rather than writing the agenda themselves and making the others fight on *their* ground.

As I see it, that's one of the things Tories are also doing.

It's quite possibly a Reform agenda they are chasing. Either way it is unpleasant disingenuous salesmanship from the governing party.

Mexicanpete · 4:08PM

dixiedean said:

FeersumEnjineeya said:

carnforth said:

A more useful graph. Census 2031 will be interesting.
My lad's one of them - British but born in Germany.
As indeed is the fragrant Emma Watson amongst others.

Sir Nigel Farage's kids?

carnforth · 4:09PM

Hey I won! Well, the horse did.

Mexicanpete · 4:11PM

carnforth said:

FeersumEnjineeya said:

carnforth said:

A more useful graph. Census 2031 will be interesting.
My lad's one of them - British but born in Germany.
But that's a tiny proportion. Come on...

Probably a decent fraction of the 4 million.

rcs1000 · 4:11PM

My forecast of Greens to beat Labour isn't looking too smart.

rottenborough · 4:12PM

carnforth said:
Hey I won! Well, the horse did.

Me too.

Inothewayurthinkin!!!!

carnforth · 4:15PM

Mexicanpete said:

carnforth said:

FeersumEnjineeya said:

carnforth said:

A more useful graph. Census 2031 will be interesting.
My lad's one of them - British but born in Germany.
But that's a tiny proportion. Come on...
Probably a decent fraction of the 4 million.

You think that a significant proportion of the 2 million increase from 2001 to 2021 is returning children of UK citizens working in the EU? Spanish retirees getting pregnant? If it's more than 10-15% I'd be shocked, but interested in seeing the numbers...

Pulpstar · 4:15PM

Successful Cheltenham. One bet total, laid Gallopin at 1.55. £20 win. Kerching.

williamglenn · 4:20PM

Mexicanpete said:

FeersumEnjineeya said:

carnforth said:

A more useful graph. Census 2031 will be interesting.
My lad's one of them - British but born in Germany.
Ah, so to an extent @williamglenn 's assertion is a tad misleading and hence disingenuous.

On the contrary it's disingenous to claim that people like Boris Johnson are immigrants in any meaningful sense or that they constitute a significant share of the migration figures.

OldKingCole · 4:20PM

Nigelb said:
Let them go bust.
This is beyond taking the piss; it's outright contempt for government, regulator (who merits it), and customers.

Why the fuck should we bail them out again ?

Thames Water begs to be spared fines and costs warning bidders will walk away

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/mar/14/thames-water-asks-ofwat-to-be-spared-fines-costs
Thames Water is asking to be spared billions of pounds of costs and fines over the next five years and heap more on to bills so it can attract new investors, the Guardian can reveal.

The struggling water company is racing to find a buyer over the next eight weeks and is trying to persuade the regulator Ofwat to grant it significant leniency on penalties and extra costs, to attract bidders. That would mean customer bills rising by far more than the 35% it has been allowed...

Well, some of the money could be recovered by charging the directors for incompetent management.

Stuartinromford · 4:20PM

Sean_F said:

Nigelb said:
Let them go bust.
This is beyond taking the piss; it's outright contempt for government, regulator (who merits it), and customers.

Why the fuck should we bail them out again ?

Thames Water begs to be spared fines and costs warning bidders will walk away

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/mar/14/thames-water-asks-ofwat-to-be-spared-fines-costs
Thames Water is asking to be spared billions of pounds of costs and fines over the next five years and heap more on to bills so it can attract new investors, the Guardian can reveal.

The struggling water company is racing to find a buyer over the next eight weeks and is trying to persuade the regulator Ofwat to grant it significant leniency on penalties and extra costs, to attract bidders. That would mean customer bills rising by far more than the 35% it has been allowed...
They really are shameless, aren't they?

I'm sure that shamelessness isn't necessary to get to the top of some organisations, but by golly it helps.

(There must be a point where you look at your compensation package and need some way of stangling Jiminy Cricket before he says "that's really rather a lot, isn't it?")

FrancisUrquhart · 4:20PM

China's city of the future: utopia or dystopia?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VItBlmlWE4U

I am sure Chinese officials watch all the 80s / 90s US sci-fi movies as an instruction manual.

Andy_JS · 4:24PM

FrancisUrquhart said:
China's city of the future: utopia or dystopia?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VItBlmlWE4U

I am sure Chinese officials watch all the 80s / 90s US sci-fi movies as an instruction manual.

Visited China in 2005 and at the time most people, especially young people, were so pro-western that you can sense that the peak had been reached and they could only possibly get less pro-western in the future. But it was nice being a western tourist in China at that time.

FrancisUrquhart · 4:25PM

Andy_JS said:

FrancisUrquhart said:
China's city of the future: utopia or dystopia?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VItBlmlWE4U

I am sure Chinese officials watch all the 80s / 90s US sci-fi movies as an instruction manual.
Visited China in 2005 and at the time most people, especially young people, were so pro-western that you can sense that the peak had been reached and they could only possibly get less pro-western in the future. But it was nice being a western tourist in China at that time.

I am likely to be there in the latter part of this year. Interested to see it for myself.

I will definitely be getting a burner phone with nothing on it though....

nova · 4:25PM

carnforth said:

Mexicanpete said:

carnforth said:

FeersumEnjineeya said:

carnforth said:

A more useful graph. Census 2031 will be interesting.
My lad's one of them - British but born in Germany.
But that's a tiny proportion. Come on...
Probably a decent fraction of the 4 million.
You think that a significant proportion of the 2 million increase from 2001 to 2021 is returning children of UK citizens working in the EU? Spanish retirees getting pregnant? If it's more than 10-15% I'd be shocked, but interested in seeing the numbers...

As far as I can see, approx two-thirds to three-quarters of the EU increase comes from just three countries; Poland, Romania, and, to a smaller extent, Ukraine.

Carnyx · 4:25PM

carnforth said:

Mexicanpete said:

carnforth said:

FeersumEnjineeya said:

carnforth said:

A more useful graph. Census 2031 will be interesting.
My lad's one of them - British but born in Germany.
But that's a tiny proportion. Come on...
Probably a decent fraction of the 4 million.
You think that a significant proportion of the 2 million increase from 2001 to 2021 is returning children of UK citizens working in the EU? Spanish retirees getting pregnant? If it's more than 10-15% I'd be shocked, but interested in seeing the numbers...

Still, more than enough to discredit any dogwhistling down the line, that's for sure.

Mexicanpete · 4:26PM

...

williamglenn said:

Mexicanpete said:

FeersumEnjineeya said:

carnforth said:

A more useful graph. Census 2031 will be interesting.
My lad's one of them - British but born in Germany.
Ah, so to an extent @williamglenn 's assertion is a tad misleading and hence disingenuous.
On the contrary it's disingenous to claim that people like Boris Johnson are immigrants in any meaningful sense or that they constitute a significant share of the migration figures.

I'd be happy to repatriate Boris Johnson from whence he came. Although with Trump's new birthright policy Johnson might no longer be welcome.

Nigelb · 4:26PM

Clearly haven't yet got around to fully purging the FBI of people who ask awkward questions.

'Highly unusual': White House halts FBI background checks for senior staff, shifts them to Pentagon: Sources

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/white-house-orders-halt-fbi-background-checks-senior/story?id=119735530
The White House has quietly directed the FBI to halt the background check process for dozens of President Donald Trump's top staffers, and has transferred the process to the Pentagon, sources familiar with the matter told ABC News.

The directive came last month after agents tasked with completing the background investigations had conducted interviews with a handful of top White House aides -- a standard part of the background check process.

White House officials took the unusual step of ordering a stop to the background check investigations after they deemed the process too intrusive, sources said....

carnforth · 4:26PM

williamglenn said:

Mexicanpete said:

FeersumEnjineeya said:

carnforth said:

A more useful graph. Census 2031 will be interesting.
My lad's one of them - British but born in Germany.
Ah, so to an extent @williamglenn 's assertion is a tad misleading and hence disingenuous.
On the contrary it's disingenous to claim that people like Boris Johnson are immigrants in any meaningful sense or that they constitute a significant share of the migration figures.

The "brexodus" is a foundational component of Remainer thinking - almost the centre of the emotional case. It's hard to know whether it happened due to the pandemic, but it has to be said to have happened. It must be clung to.

FrancisUrquhart · 4:33PM

The Six Nations will remain on free-to-air for the next four years after a landmark deal was struck that means the BBC will no longer show England games, Telegraph Sport understands.

ITV will show all of England’s games under the new deal, making Saturday’s match between Wales and England the last shown on BBC until at least 2030.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2025/03/14/six-nations-to-stay-on-free-to-air-as-bbc-and-itv-agree-new/

OnlyLivingBoy · 4:34PM

williamglenn said:

Mexicanpete said:

FeersumEnjineeya said:

carnforth said:

A more useful graph. Census 2031 will be interesting.
My lad's one of them - British but born in Germany.
Ah, so to an extent @williamglenn 's assertion is a tad misleading and hence disingenuous.
On the contrary it's disingenous to claim that people like Boris Johnson are immigrants in any meaningful sense or that they constitute a significant share of the migration figures.

Too lazy to be an immigrant.

FrancisUrquhart · 4:36PM

Don't panic Mr. Mainwaring....

A new coronavirus feared to be able to spread to humans has been discovered by a China-linked scientist.

Researchers from Brazil and colleagues affiliated with the University of Hong Kong detected the new strain after swabbing the mouths and rectums of bats.

The novel strain is closely related to MERS — a disease that kills about 35 percent of the people it infects.

The makeup of the virus' spike protein, which it uses to trigger an infection, means it can probably infect human cells, the researchers warned.

The virus is now being transported to China, along with six other viruses discovered during the expedition.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-14499027/new-coronavirus-discovery-bats-chinese-scientist.html

rottenborough · 4:41PM

FrancisUrquhart said:
Don't panic Mr. Mainwaring....

A new coronavirus feared to be able to spread to humans has been discovered by a China-linked scientist.

Researchers from Brazil and colleagues affiliated with the University of Hong Kong detected the new strain after swabbing the mouths and rectums of bats.

The novel strain is closely related to MERS — a disease that kills about 35 percent of the people it infects.

The makeup of the virus' spike protein, which it uses to trigger an infection, means it can probably infect human cells, the researchers warned.

The virus is now being transported to China, along with six other viruses discovered during the expedition.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-14499027/new-coronavirus-discovery-bats-chinese-scientist.html

Any bat eaters in Brazil?

MattW · 4:42PM

Nigelb said:
Clearly haven't yet got around to fully purging the FBI of people who ask awkward questions.

'Highly unusual': White House halts FBI background checks for senior staff, shifts them to Pentagon: Sources

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/white-house-orders-halt-fbi-background-checks-senior/story?id=119735530
The White House has quietly directed the FBI to halt the background check process for dozens of President Donald Trump's top staffers, and has transferred the process to the Pentagon, sources familiar with the matter told ABC News.

The directive came last month after agents tasked with completing the background investigations had conducted interviews with a handful of top White House aides -- a standard part of the background check process.

White House officials took the unusual step of ordering a stop to the background check investigations after they deemed the process too intrusive, sources said....

Trump is currently setting up to get the rules of war rewritten, so Hegseth can bring in his "Warrior" ethos.

He's sacked the top military lawyers of the JAG offices, and is appointing Trump's own loyalists.

https://newrepublic.com/post/192695/pete-hegseth-replace-military-lawyers

carnforth · 4:43PM

rottenborough said:

FrancisUrquhart said:
Don't panic Mr. Mainwaring....

A new coronavirus feared to be able to spread to humans has been discovered by a China-linked scientist.

Researchers from Brazil and colleagues affiliated with the University of Hong Kong detected the new strain after swabbing the mouths and rectums of bats.

The novel strain is closely related to MERS — a disease that kills about 35 percent of the people it infects.

The makeup of the virus' spike protein, which it uses to trigger an infection, means it can probably infect human cells, the researchers warned.

The virus is now being transported to China, along with six other viruses discovered during the expedition.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-14499027/new-coronavirus-discovery-bats-chinese-scientist.html
Any bat eaters in Brazil?

Swabbing the rectums of bats with their mouths, apparently. If I read that right.

Mexicanpete · 4:46PM

Conservative donor Mohammed Amersi on LBC going full HYUFD. He was talking with Farage at Trump's inauguration and he maintained that Nigel has plans to merge the Tory party with Reform to defeat Starmer. Amersi says Kemi is struggling and Cleverly's political future lies as Mayor of London. So Nige to run the nation as Tory PM, anyone?

Has anyone seen HYUFD and Mohammed Amersi in the same room?

TimS · 4:46PM

FrancisUrquhart said:
Don't panic Mr. Mainwaring....

A new coronavirus feared to be able to spread to humans has been discovered by a China-linked scientist.

Researchers from Brazil and colleagues affiliated with the University of Hong Kong detected the new strain after swabbing the mouths and rectums of bats.

The novel strain is closely related to MERS — a disease that kills about 35 percent of the people it infects.

The makeup of the virus' spike protein, which it uses to trigger an infection, means it can probably infect human cells, the researchers warned.

The virus is now being transported to China, along with six other viruses discovered during the expedition.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-14499027/new-coronavirus-discovery-bats-chinese-scientist.html

What a job. Wiping bats’ arses, finding new deadly diseases and shipping them to labs in China.

I hope they’ve sent the sequences to some vaccine companies.

Richard_Tyndall · 4:46PM

FPT:

Mexicanpete said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Mexicanpete said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Mexicanpete said:

TimS said:

HYUFD said:

Mexicanpete said:

boulay said:
Weird how so many posters who don’t like/don’t miss Leon bother to take the time to post something about him.

For someone who is banned from the site he’s done well to be still spamming it.
That has been one of the benefits of his temporary absence- considerably less spamming of irrelevant shite.

I think I am the only poster who has made the comments you have suggested, so you can blame me, but no one else.
The problem with the absence of Sandpit and Leon etc is in a nation where 25% now back Reform and at least 45% the Tories or Reform this site is now dominated by left liberals and Remainers.

The number of Tory voters on here now is in single digits and I can't think of a Reform voter except maybe Lucky guy who would be Tory if Jenrick was their leader
We should run a poll. I think you’d be surprised on the Tory count.

When you’re at one end of the political spectrum it’s no surprise everyone else seems to be at the other. BJO would doubtless tell us the whole forum is full of Tories.

At a guess, I’d say Lib Dems and Tories are over represented here vs polls, Reform and Green are underrepresented, and Labour is in line.
I suspect we have a good few shy Reformers.

I'll start. Former Labour, but not for a while, still never Tory (or Reform).
NOTA.

Tory once back in the era of Thatcher. UKIP once to get a Referendum. Since then local independents or spoiled ballots.

As I think I mentioned once before, at University I was simultaneously a member of the Tory group (Thatcher era, along with Welshowl of this parish), the Labour Group (as I was sleeping with one of the student executive) and Plaid Cyrmu (as the PC Club in Cardiff was the only place you could get a drink on a Sunday evening).
I didn't join any political societies. I was far too busy in the Splottlands from Sunday to Thursday and the Old Arcade and then Kiwis on Friday and Saturday.
When were you there?

Edit: We might have had this convsersation before but I am old and forgetful
I'm the class of '89. I worked as a rep for a few years before I went.

I do remember during exam fortnight in 1987 getting absolutely bolloxed in the Horse and Groom and the Philharmonic and falling asleep in a curry house at the bottom of City Road on the Saturday between the two weeks. I assumed I was half way through failing my first year exams. Fortunately I passed.

I graduated in 1986 so just missed you. I spent some time in the Philly but as I worked behind the bars both at Uni Hall and in the Student Union I did most of my drinking there.

Daveyboy1961 · 4:52PM

MattW said:

Nigelb said:
Clearly haven't yet got around to fully purging the FBI of people who ask awkward questions.

'Highly unusual': White House halts FBI background checks for senior staff, shifts them to Pentagon: Sources

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/white-house-orders-halt-fbi-background-checks-senior/story?id=119735530
The White House has quietly directed the FBI to halt the background check process for dozens of President Donald Trump's top staffers, and has transferred the process to the Pentagon, sources familiar with the matter told ABC News.

The directive came last month after agents tasked with completing the background investigations had conducted interviews with a handful of top White House aides -- a standard part of the background check process.

White House officials took the unusual step of ordering a stop to the background check investigations after they deemed the process too intrusive, sources said....
Trump is currently setting up to get the rules of war rewritten, so Hegseth can bring in his "Warrior" ethos.

He's sacked the top military lawyers of the JAG offices, and is appointing Trump's own loyalists.

https://newrepublic.com/post/192695/pete-hegseth-replace-military-lawyers

This is getting more and more like a coup of some description.

DavidL · 4:52PM

I must confess that I am finding our politics so deeply depressing at the moment that I am finding it harder to even comment on it.

The leadership of the main parties is utterly uninspired and seems to have no idea what they want (other than to be in power). Reeves is a shockingly poor Chancellor whose initial budget has killed off growth in the UK, growth that is essential to make her numbers work. They Tories failed to address the real and substantial problems that we have in investment, excess consumption, balance of payments, debt and skills. Modest efforts such as Hunt's policy of allowing 100% write offs for investment were welcome but not even close to sufficient.

I personally find Reform repugnant. There is a deep underlying strand of racism, a determination to live on "alternative facts" and a reluctance to engage with real world problems. I will never vote for them.

The Lib Dems are teetering on the verge of total irrelevance and show no signs of any kind of breakthrough. The Greens are even worse. As for the SNP up here, words simply fail me.

I am now 63. I just missed voting in 1979. I cannot recall a time in my adult life where we had such a range of problems and no real hints of any solutions from anyone. We are not attracting people of the requisite talent into politics. Reform thrive on the None of the Above ticket. I personally put them at the top of the list for None of the Above but you can begin to understand peoples' frustration and irritation with what they are being offered. I am struggling to see how we fix this.

carnforth · 4:54PM

DavidL said:
I must confess that I am finding our politics so deeply depressing at the moment that I am finding it harder to even comment on it.

The leadership of the main parties is utterly uninspired and seems to have no idea what they want (other than to be in power). Reeves is a shockingly poor Chancellor whose initial budget has killed off growth in the UK, growth that is essential to make her numbers work. They Tories failed to address the real and substantial problems that we have in investment, excess consumption, balance of payments, debt and skills. Modest efforts such as Hunt's policy of allowing 100% write offs for investment were welcome but not even close to sufficient.

I personally find Reform repugnant. There is a deep underlying strand of racism, a determination to live on "alternative facts" and a reluctance to engage with real world problems. I will never vote for them.

The Lib Dems are teetering on the verge of total irrelevance and show no signs of any kind of breakthrough. The Greens are even worse. As for the SNP up here, words simply fail me.

I am now 63. I just missed voting in 1979. I cannot recall a time in my adult life where we had such a range of problems and no real hints of any solutions from anyone. We are not attracting people of the requisite talent into politics. Reform thrive on the None of the Above ticket. I personally put them at the top of the list for None of the Above but you can begin to understand peoples' frustration and irritation with what they are being offered. I am struggling to see how we fix this.

Comparing the current lot with Blair's first cabinet does not flatter them. Depressing indeed.

Pagan2 · 4:54PM

FrancisUrquhart said:
A senior civil servant tricked the Government into paying him for three full-time jobs as he used working from home to help him to go undetected for at least two years.

Cabinet Office documents reveal the man worked for both the Department for Environment, Food & Rural Affairs (Defra) and the Department for Health and Social Care (DHSC) between 2022 and 2024.

It added that the official held three jobs at the same time on two separate occasions and was only identified when a government fraud squad stepped in.

The case, first reported by the i newspaper, showed the senior civil servant, who held higher security clearances in two government departments, was able to avoid initial detection by lying about his employment history.

One wonders how his colleagues didn't suspect he was giving full time attention to these jobs.....then you wonder why we feel the civil service might be a little lazy

williamglenn · 4:57PM

carnforth said:

DavidL said:
I must confess that I am finding our politics so deeply depressing at the moment that I am finding it harder to even comment on it.

The leadership of the main parties is utterly uninspired and seems to have no idea what they want (other than to be in power). Reeves is a shockingly poor Chancellor whose initial budget has killed off growth in the UK, growth that is essential to make her numbers work. They Tories failed to address the real and substantial problems that we have in investment, excess consumption, balance of payments, debt and skills. Modest efforts such as Hunt's policy of allowing 100% write offs for investment were welcome but not even close to sufficient.

I personally find Reform repugnant. There is a deep underlying strand of racism, a determination to live on "alternative facts" and a reluctance to engage with real world problems. I will never vote for them.

The Lib Dems are teetering on the verge of total irrelevance and show no signs of any kind of breakthrough. The Greens are even worse. As for the SNP up here, words simply fail me.

I am now 63. I just missed voting in 1979. I cannot recall a time in my adult life where we had such a range of problems and no real hints of any solutions from anyone. We are not attracting people of the requisite talent into politics. Reform thrive on the None of the Above ticket. I personally put them at the top of the list for None of the Above but you can begin to understand peoples' frustration and irritation with what they are being offered. I am struggling to see how we fix this.
Comparing the current lot with Blair's first cabinet does not flatter them. Depressing indeed.

Things didn't only get better since then...

Richard_Tyndall · 4:57PM

MaxPB said:
Germany have done a deal on their defence fund which is great news, hopefully we start working with them ASAP along with France on filling gaps in continent wide security and intelligence while they clean house at their intelligence agencies for Russian infiltration which has historically been an issue. It would be good to have a European three eyes intelligence sharing agreement between France, Germany and the UK now that the Germans are showing they are serious about defending themselves.

This is great but if we want to show ourselves to be serious we need to be doing a lot more in terms of actual spend to match what Germany and France are doing.

If we need tax rises to pay for it (of course we do) then so be it. Same goes for cuts in other departments. We have a lot of catching up to do,

Pagan2 · 5:00PM

Richard_Tyndall said:

MaxPB said:
Germany have done a deal on their defence fund which is great news, hopefully we start working with them ASAP along with France on filling gaps in continent wide security and intelligence while they clean house at their intelligence agencies for Russian infiltration which has historically been an issue. It would be good to have a European three eyes intelligence sharing agreement between France, Germany and the UK now that the Germans are showing they are serious about defending themselves.
This is great but if we want to show ourselves to be serious we need to be doing a lot more in terms of actual spend to match what Germany and France are doing.

If we need tax rises to pay for it (of course we do) then so be it. Same goes for cuts in other departments. We have a lot of catching up to do,

The trouble with tax rises....simply the bottom 50 percent cant afford to pay them they are probably already on top up benefits anyway

Richard_Tyndall · 5:03PM

Daveyboy1961 said:

williamglenn said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

williamglenn said:

Mexicanpete said:

Pagan2 said:

Mexicanpete said:

Pagan2 said:

Mexicanpete said:

dixiedean said:
I'm still Labour.
Not sure how you can be enthusiastic for doing a small proportion of what has to be done in very difficult circumstances. Often in a cack-handed manner.
TINA right now.
It must be getting harder with sweeping policy revolutions like the unpleasant rhetoric surrounding benefits. Yes the benefits system needs reforming, but othering the disabled is downright nasty. I'm coming over all BJO.
Can you suggest how to reform the benefits system without othering someone? It will always be portrayed as such by the left
Make the focus on getting people who want to work into work, rather than suggesting people with MS are workshy, which is how it came over. Not so easy when 9,000 people have just been made redundant at NHS England*.

* I agree with abolishing NHS England.
We need to train people sadly governements both tory and new labour have fallen for the we can bring trained people in from overseas so business doesn't have to pay to train people. Result we have those unemployables because it will take time to get them up to speed so they are giving the company more profit than employing them does
That is essentially true. Back in the later 2000s importing educated Eastern Europeans to be several times more productive than poorly educated locals was compelling for businesses. I saw it first hand.

Still we Brexited and the foreigners all went home. So all is good.
There are more EU citizens in Britain now than there were in the 2000s...
Source?
https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/eu-migration-to-and-from-the-uk/

In 2021, there were approximately 4 million EU-born residents in the UK, according to Census data from England, Wales, and Northern Ireland, and survey-based data from Scotland (see Understanding the Evidence). The number of EU-born residents in the UK increased by around 50% between the 2011 and 2021 Census (from 2.7 million), reflecting a decade of positive net migration.
Now?
Haven't we brexited since then?

Nope. We Brexited January 2020

Big_G_NorthWales · 5:03PM

DavidL said:
I must confess that I am finding our politics so deeply depressing at the moment that I am finding it harder to even comment on it.

The leadership of the main parties is utterly uninspired and seems to have no idea what they want (other than to be in power). Reeves is a shockingly poor Chancellor whose initial budget has killed off growth in the UK, growth that is essential to make her numbers work. They Tories failed to address the real and substantial problems that we have in investment, excess consumption, balance of payments, debt and skills. Modest efforts such as Hunt's policy of allowing 100% write offs for investment were welcome but not even close to sufficient.

I personally find Reform repugnant. There is a deep underlying strand of racism, a determination to live on "alternative facts" and a reluctance to engage with real world problems. I will never vote for them.

The Lib Dems are teetering on the verge of total irrelevance and show no signs of any kind of breakthrough. The Greens are even worse. As for the SNP up here, words simply fail me.

I am now 63. I just missed voting in 1979. I cannot recall a time in my adult life where we had such a range of problems and no real hints of any solutions from anyone. We are not attracting people of the requisite talent into politics. Reform thrive on the None of the Above ticket. I personally put them at the top of the list for None of the Above but you can begin to understand peoples' frustration and irritation with what they are being offered. I am struggling to see how we fix this.

Well said and much my thoughts as well

algarkirk · 5:09PM

DavidL said:
I must confess that I am finding our politics so deeply depressing at the moment that I am finding it harder to even comment on it.

The leadership of the main parties is utterly uninspired and seems to have no idea what they want (other than to be in power). Reeves is a shockingly poor Chancellor whose initial budget has killed off growth in the UK, growth that is essential to make her numbers work. They Tories failed to address the real and substantial problems that we have in investment, excess consumption, balance of payments, debt and skills. Modest efforts such as Hunt's policy of allowing 100% write offs for investment were welcome but not even close to sufficient.

I personally find Reform repugnant. There is a deep underlying strand of racism, a determination to live on "alternative facts" and a reluctance to engage with real world problems. I will never vote for them.

The Lib Dems are teetering on the verge of total irrelevance and show no signs of any kind of breakthrough. The Greens are even worse. As for the SNP up here, words simply fail me.

I am now 63. I just missed voting in 1979. I cannot recall a time in my adult life where we had such a range of problems and no real hints of any solutions from anyone. We are not attracting people of the requisite talent into politics. Reform thrive on the None of the Above ticket. I personally put them at the top of the list for None of the Above but you can begin to understand peoples' frustration and irritation with what they are being offered. I am struggling to see how we fix this.

Agreeing with much of this. Reform, I think, offer even more of a range of non-solutions than the others, + a tremendous capacity for not being very good at running things. While this government is less than brilliant, I'm glad on the whole it is there because the other options look worse.

We are nearly a quarter of the way through this century. To me its big characteristic has been that particular mega problems have come one after the other so that there has never been time to draw breath, consolidate, regroup, and in fiscal terms, reach a bit of boring balance, and stop borrowing and getting into impossible debt

Consider:
2001 9/11,ff by Afgahistan and Iraq
2007/8 Financial meltdown
2010 Arab Spring
2016 Brexit, Trump Mk I
2020 Covid
2022 Ukraine
2023 Gaza
2024 Trump Mk II

That's a lot of rough beasts slouching towards Bethlehem as Yeats would put it.

Richard_Tyndall · 5:09PM

Mexicanpete said:

FeersumEnjineeya said:

carnforth said:

A more useful graph. Census 2031 will be interesting.
My lad's one of them - British but born in Germany.
Ah, so to an extent @williamglenn 's assertion is a tad misleading and hence disingenuous.

Well, I assume that such examples would not need to apply to stay in the UK under the EU Settlement Scheme. And according to the Government as of 30 September 2024, an estimated 5.7 million people had obtained settled status under the EUSS. So if anything the number has increased significantly even since 2021.

Pagan2 · 5:10PM

Big_G_NorthWales said:

DavidL said:
I must confess that I am finding our politics so deeply depressing at the moment that I am finding it harder to even comment on it.

The leadership of the main parties is utterly uninspired and seems to have no idea what they want (other than to be in power). Reeves is a shockingly poor Chancellor whose initial budget has killed off growth in the UK, growth that is essential to make her numbers work. They Tories failed to address the real and substantial problems that we have in investment, excess consumption, balance of payments, debt and skills. Modest efforts such as Hunt's policy of allowing 100% write offs for investment were welcome but not even close to sufficient.

I personally find Reform repugnant. There is a deep underlying strand of racism, a determination to live on "alternative facts" and a reluctance to engage with real world problems. I will never vote for them.

The Lib Dems are teetering on the verge of total irrelevance and show no signs of any kind of breakthrough. The Greens are even worse. As for the SNP up here, words simply fail me.

I am now 63. I just missed voting in 1979. I cannot recall a time in my adult life where we had such a range of problems and no real hints of any solutions from anyone. We are not attracting people of the requisite talent into politics. Reform thrive on the None of the Above ticket. I personally put them at the top of the list for None of the Above but you can begin to understand peoples' frustration and irritation with what they are being offered. I am struggling to see how we fix this.
Well said and much my thoughts as well

Reform appeal to the we have nothing left to lose voters, the ones who dont believe their lives can get worse whoever is in power. They know lib dem, con , lab will continue to make their lives worse what else should they vote for.....if mainstream parties dont give them reason to hope things will get better which they are not currently why would they vote for any of them

Cookie · 5:16PM

FrancisUrquhart said:
The Six Nations will remain on free-to-air for the next four years after a landmark deal was struck that means the BBC will no longer show England games, Telegraph Sport understands.

ITV will show all of England’s games under the new deal, making Saturday’s match between Wales and England the last shown on BBC until at least 2030.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2025/03/14/six-nations-to-stay-on-free-to-air-as-bbc-and-itv-agree-new/

Good news that it'll stay free to air. And adverts aside, ITV's coverage has been better for some time.

Pagan2 · 5:18PM

People on this board I think do fairly nicely from the lib/lab/con nothing changes position they might get a little less well off but not by much.....Thats a privliged postion not held by about 70% of people where a lot of the centrist policies of either of the three parties actually makes them worse off than they were before....don't think many here live in the world inhabited by most of the country

MarqueeMark · 5:22PM

rottenborough said:

FrancisUrquhart said:
Don't panic Mr. Mainwaring....

A new coronavirus feared to be able to spread to humans has been discovered by a China-linked scientist.

Researchers from Brazil and colleagues affiliated with the University of Hong Kong detected the new strain after swabbing the mouths and rectums of bats.

The novel strain is closely related to MERS — a disease that kills about 35 percent of the people it infects.

The makeup of the virus' spike protein, which it uses to trigger an infection, means it can probably infect human cells, the researchers warned.

The virus is now being transported to China, along with six other viruses discovered during the expedition.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-14499027/new-coronavirus-discovery-bats-chinese-scientist.html
Any bat eaters in Brazil?

Depends if Ozzy Osbourne is on tour...

OldKingCole · 5:22PM

DavidL said:
I must confess that I am finding our politics so deeply depressing at the moment that I am finding it harder to even comment on it.

The leadership of the main parties is utterly uninspired and seems to have no idea what they want (other than to be in power). Reeves is a shockingly poor Chancellor whose initial budget has killed off growth in the UK, growth that is essential to make her numbers work. They Tories failed to address the real and substantial problems that we have in investment, excess consumption, balance of payments, debt and skills. Modest efforts such as Hunt's policy of allowing 100% write offs for investment were welcome but not even close to sufficient.

I personally find Reform repugnant. There is a deep underlying strand of racism, a determination to live on "alternative facts" and a reluctance to engage with real world problems. I will never vote for them.

The Lib Dems are teetering on the verge of total irrelevance and show no signs of any kind of breakthrough. The Greens are even worse. As for the SNP up here, words simply fail me.

I am now 63. I just missed voting in 1979. I cannot recall a time in my adult life where we had such a range of problems and no real hints of any solutions from anyone. We are not attracting people of the requisite talent into politics. Reform thrive on the None of the Above ticket. I personally put them at the top of the list for None of the Above but you can begin to understand peoples' frustration and irritation with what they are being offered. I am struggling to see how we fix this.

You are, David (if may call you that) jut a year or so older than my elder son and I have to say that agree with you about our politicians, although I'm very aware of the need NOT to look back to some long-ago Golden Age. I would not put many of Labour's current leaders in the same ability bracket as, say Robin Cook or Gordon Brown let alone Michael Foot, Denis Healey, or, going further back Harold Wilson or Aneurin Bevan. Yes they had their faults but they also had beliefs.
I wasn't a Thatcher fan, but she had a vision, mistaken though I thought it to be. And she was wise enough to have a 'critical friend' close to her. As well as able lieutenants.
As far as the LibDems are concerned, one cannot, absolutely cannot, realistically equate Ed Davey with Jo Gromond, David Steel or Paddy Ashdown. Jeremy Thorpe had massive clay feet but he was an inspirational speaker.
Reform scares me, to be honest.

SonofContrarian · 5:24PM

algarkirk said:

DavidL said:
I must confess that I am finding our politics so deeply depressing at the moment that I am finding it harder to even comment on it.

The leadership of the main parties is utterly uninspired and seems to have no idea what they want (other than to be in power). Reeves is a shockingly poor Chancellor whose initial budget has killed off growth in the UK, growth that is essential to make her numbers work. They Tories failed to address the real and substantial problems that we have in investment, excess consumption, balance of payments, debt and skills. Modest efforts such as Hunt's policy of allowing 100% write offs for investment were welcome but not even close to sufficient.

I personally find Reform repugnant. There is a deep underlying strand of racism, a determination to live on "alternative facts" and a reluctance to engage with real world problems. I will never vote for them.

The Lib Dems are teetering on the verge of total irrelevance and show no signs of any kind of breakthrough. The Greens are even worse. As for the SNP up here, words simply fail me.

I am now 63. I just missed voting in 1979. I cannot recall a time in my adult life where we had such a range of problems and no real hints of any solutions from anyone. We are not attracting people of the requisite talent into politics. Reform thrive on the None of the Above ticket. I personally put them at the top of the list for None of the Above but you can begin to understand peoples' frustration and irritation with what they are being offered. I am struggling to see how we fix this.
Agreeing with much of this. Reform, I think, offer even more of a range of non-solutions than the others, + a tremendous capacity for not being very good at running things. While this government is less than brilliant, I'm glad on the whole it is there because the other options look worse.

We are nearly a quarter of the way through this century. To me its big characteristic has been that particular mega problems have come one after the other so that there has never been time to draw breath, consolidate, regroup, and in fiscal terms, reach a bit of boring balance, and stop borrowing and getting into impossible debt

Consider:
2001 9/11,ff by Afgahistan and Iraq
2007/8 Financial meltdown
2010 Arab Spring
2016 Brexit, Trump Mk I
2020 Covid
2022 Ukraine
2023 Gaza
2024 Trump Mk II

That's a lot of rough beasts slouching towards Bethlehem as Yeats would put it.

The Arab Spring and Gaza are irrelevant to us..and COVID and Ukraine saw massive overreactions..only the financial crisis of 2008 was a real black swan event..🧐

Daveyboy1961 · 5:25PM

Pagan2 said:
People on this board I think do fairly nicely from the lib/lab/con nothing changes position they might get a little less well off but not by much.....Thats a privliged postion not held by about 70% of people where a lot of the centrist policies of either of the three parties actually makes them worse off than they were before....don't think many here live in the world inhabited by most of the country

It's a view I suppose...

OldKingCole · 5:28PM

SonofContrarian said:

algarkirk said:

DavidL said:
I must confess that I am finding our politics so deeply depressing at the moment that I am finding it harder to even comment on it.

The leadership of the main parties is utterly uninspired and seems to have no idea what they want (other than to be in power). Reeves is a shockingly poor Chancellor whose initial budget has killed off growth in the UK, growth that is essential to make her numbers work. They Tories failed to address the real and substantial problems that we have in investment, excess consumption, balance of payments, debt and skills. Modest efforts such as Hunt's policy of allowing 100% write offs for investment were welcome but not even close to sufficient.

I personally find Reform repugnant. There is a deep underlying strand of racism, a determination to live on "alternative facts" and a reluctance to engage with real world problems. I will never vote for them.

The Lib Dems are teetering on the verge of total irrelevance and show no signs of any kind of breakthrough. The Greens are even worse. As for the SNP up here, words simply fail me.

I am now 63. I just missed voting in 1979. I cannot recall a time in my adult life where we had such a range of problems and no real hints of any solutions from anyone. We are not attracting people of the requisite talent into politics. Reform thrive on the None of the Above ticket. I personally put them at the top of the list for None of the Above but you can begin to understand peoples' frustration and irritation with what they are being offered. I am struggling to see how we fix this.
Agreeing with much of this. Reform, I think, offer even more of a range of non-solutions than the others, + a tremendous capacity for not being very good at running things. While this government is less than brilliant, I'm glad on the whole it is there because the other options look worse.

We are nearly a quarter of the way through this century. To me its big characteristic has been that particular mega problems have come one after the other so that there has never been time to draw breath, consolidate, regroup, and in fiscal terms, reach a bit of boring balance, and stop borrowing and getting into impossible debt

Consider:
2001 9/11,ff by Afgahistan and Iraq
2007/8 Financial meltdown
2010 Arab Spring
2016 Brexit, Trump Mk I
2020 Covid
2022 Ukraine
2023 Gaza
2024 Trump Mk II

That's a lot of rough beasts slouching towards Bethlehem as Yeats would put it.
The Arab Spring and Gaza are irrelevant to us..and COVID and Ukraine saw massive overreactions..only the financial crisis of 2008 was a real black swan event..🧐

The Arab Spring wasn't irrelevant; we should have given more support and encouragement.

Nigel_Foremain · 5:29PM

Richard_Tyndall said:

MaxPB said:
Germany have done a deal on their defence fund which is great news, hopefully we start working with them ASAP along with France on filling gaps in continent wide security and intelligence while they clean house at their intelligence agencies for Russian infiltration which has historically been an issue. It would be good to have a European three eyes intelligence sharing agreement between France, Germany and the UK now that the Germans are showing they are serious about defending themselves.
This is great but if we want to show ourselves to be serious we need to be doing a lot more in terms of actual spend to match what Germany and France are doing.

If we need tax rises to pay for it (of course we do) then so be it. Same goes for cuts in other departments. We have a lot of catching up to do,

I think it would be good to have ring fenced tax for defence. I would certainly be happy to pay it if it is spent wisely

Richard_Tyndall · 5:30PM

Nigel_Foremain said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

MaxPB said:
Germany have done a deal on their defence fund which is great news, hopefully we start working with them ASAP along with France on filling gaps in continent wide security and intelligence while they clean house at their intelligence agencies for Russian infiltration which has historically been an issue. It would be good to have a European three eyes intelligence sharing agreement between France, Germany and the UK now that the Germans are showing they are serious about defending themselves.
This is great but if we want to show ourselves to be serious we need to be doing a lot more in terms of actual spend to match what Germany and France are doing.

If we need tax rises to pay for it (of course we do) then so be it. Same goes for cuts in other departments. We have a lot of catching up to do,
I think it would be good to have ring fenced tax for defence. I would certainly be happy to pay it if it is spent wisely

I agree entirely.

Pagan2 · 5:30PM

Daveyboy1961 said:

Pagan2 said:
People on this board I think do fairly nicely from the lib/lab/con nothing changes position they might get a little less well off but not by much.....Thats a privliged postion not held by about 70% of people where a lot of the centrist policies of either of the three parties actually makes them worse off than they were before....don't think many here live in the world inhabited by most of the country
It's a view I suppose...

Suggest a reason to doubt what I said then, most pensioners here are on defined benefit pensions giving them a total income well above min wage...name one thats not....of those still working we have people like rochdale, richard tyndall, casino royale all have hinted at salaries 6 figures or more....even chb has said he is living in a parental house so not having to pay rent as I remember

Name one person other than me that is not working for a company and paying rent? Morris dancer maybe

Nigel_Foremain · 5:31PM

TimS said:

FrancisUrquhart said:
Don't panic Mr. Mainwaring....

A new coronavirus feared to be able to spread to humans has been discovered by a China-linked scientist.

Researchers from Brazil and colleagues affiliated with the University of Hong Kong detected the new strain after swabbing the mouths and rectums of bats.

The novel strain is closely related to MERS — a disease that kills about 35 percent of the people it infects.

The makeup of the virus' spike protein, which it uses to trigger an infection, means it can probably infect human cells, the researchers warned.

The virus is now being transported to China, along with six other viruses discovered during the expedition.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-14499027/new-coronavirus-discovery-bats-chinese-scientist.html
What a job. Wiping bats’ arses, finding new deadly diseases and shipping them to labs in China.

I hope they’ve sent the sequences to some vaccine companies.

Where is @Leon when you need him to do his nut about yet another subject that he knows jack-shit about (or bat shit maybe?)

Eabhal · 5:31PM

I just hope the new frigates being built on the Clyde are a bit better than these CalMac ferries.

williamglenn · 5:33PM

https://x.com/atrupar/status/1900548554575286694

Pam Bondi: "If you're gonna touch a Tesla, go to a dealership, do anything, you better watch out, because we're coming after you."

Cookie · 5:33PM

OldKingCole said:

DavidL said:
I must confess that I am finding our politics so deeply depressing at the moment that I am finding it harder to even comment on it.

The leadership of the main parties is utterly uninspired and seems to have no idea what they want (other than to be in power). Reeves is a shockingly poor Chancellor whose initial budget has killed off growth in the UK, growth that is essential to make her numbers work. They Tories failed to address the real and substantial problems that we have in investment, excess consumption, balance of payments, debt and skills. Modest efforts such as Hunt's policy of allowing 100% write offs for investment were welcome but not even close to sufficient.

I personally find Reform repugnant. There is a deep underlying strand of racism, a determination to live on "alternative facts" and a reluctance to engage with real world problems. I will never vote for them.

The Lib Dems are teetering on the verge of total irrelevance and show no signs of any kind of breakthrough. The Greens are even worse. As for the SNP up here, words simply fail me.

I am now 63. I just missed voting in 1979. I cannot recall a time in my adult life where we had such a range of problems and no real hints of any solutions from anyone. We are not attracting people of the requisite talent into politics. Reform thrive on the None of the Above ticket. I personally put them at the top of the list for None of the Above but you can begin to understand peoples' frustration and irritation with what they are being offered. I am struggling to see how we fix this.
You are, David (if may call you that) jut a year or so older than my elder son and I have to say that agree with you about our politicians, although I'm very aware of the need NOT to look back to some long-ago Golden Age. I would not put many of Labour's current leaders in the same ability bracket as, say Robin Cook or Gordon Brown let alone Michael Foot, Denis Healey, or, going further back Harold Wilson or Aneurin Bevan. Yes they had their faults but they also had beliefs.
I wasn't a Thatcher fan, but she had a vision, mistaken though I thought it to be. And she was wise enough to have a 'critical friend' close to her. As well as able lieutenants.
As far as the LibDems are concerned, one cannot, absolutely cannot, realistically equate Ed Davey with Jo Gromond, David Steel or Paddy Ashdown. Jeremy Thorpe had massive clay feet but he was an inspirational speaker.
Reform scares me, to be honest.

I'm only 49, but I'm sceptical there was ever a golden period of competent politicians. Politics is incredibly difficult and required mastery of impossible swathes of detail. We award yesterday's politicians a gravitas they have now through experience but didn't have at the time. And previous generations didn't have to contend with social media or 24hr news.
Rachel Reeves is still the weakest chancellor of my lifetime by a country mile, mind you.

OldKingCole · 5:36PM

Cookie said:

OldKingCole said:

DavidL said:
I must confess that I am finding our politics so deeply depressing at the moment that I am finding it harder to even comment on it.

The leadership of the main parties is utterly uninspired and seems to have no idea what they want (other than to be in power). Reeves is a shockingly poor Chancellor whose initial budget has killed off growth in the UK, growth that is essential to make her numbers work. They Tories failed to address the real and substantial problems that we have in investment, excess consumption, balance of payments, debt and skills. Modest efforts such as Hunt's policy of allowing 100% write offs for investment were welcome but not even close to sufficient.

I personally find Reform repugnant. There is a deep underlying strand of racism, a determination to live on "alternative facts" and a reluctance to engage with real world problems. I will never vote for them.

The Lib Dems are teetering on the verge of total irrelevance and show no signs of any kind of breakthrough. The Greens are even worse. As for the SNP up here, words simply fail me.

I am now 63. I just missed voting in 1979. I cannot recall a time in my adult life where we had such a range of problems and no real hints of any solutions from anyone. We are not attracting people of the requisite talent into politics. Reform thrive on the None of the Above ticket. I personally put them at the top of the list for None of the Above but you can begin to understand peoples' frustration and irritation with what they are being offered. I am struggling to see how we fix this.
You are, David (if may call you that) jut a year or so older than my elder son and I have to say that agree with you about our politicians, although I'm very aware of the need NOT to look back to some long-ago Golden Age. I would not put many of Labour's current leaders in the same ability bracket as, say Robin Cook or Gordon Brown let alone Michael Foot, Denis Healey, or, going further back Harold Wilson or Aneurin Bevan. Yes they had their faults but they also had beliefs.
I wasn't a Thatcher fan, but she had a vision, mistaken though I thought it to be. And she was wise enough to have a 'critical friend' close to her. As well as able lieutenants.
As far as the LibDems are concerned, one cannot, absolutely cannot, realistically equate Ed Davey with Jo Gromond, David Steel or Paddy Ashdown. Jeremy Thorpe had massive clay feet but he was an inspirational speaker.
Reform scares me, to be honest.
I'm only 49, but I'm sceptical there was ever a golden period of competent politicians. Politics is incredibly difficult and required mastery of impossible swathes of detail. We award yesterday's politicians a gravitas they have now through experience but didn't have at the time. And previous generations didn't have to contend with social media or 24hr news.
Rachel Reeves is still the weakest chancellor of my lifetime by a country mile, mind you.

While I agree there never was a Golden Age, I think one line in your post bears repeating and remembering:
"And previous generations didn't have to contend with social media or 24hr news."

Nigel_Foremain · 5:37PM

Eabhal said:

dixiedean said:

FrancisUrquhart said:
A senior civil servant tricked the Government into paying him for three full-time jobs as he used working from home to help him to go undetected for at least two years.

Cabinet Office documents reveal the man worked for both the Department for Environment, Food & Rural Affairs (Defra) and the Department for Health and Social Care (DHSC) between 2022 and 2024.

It added that the official held three jobs at the same time on two separate occasions and was only identified when a government fraud squad stepped in.

The case, first reported by the i newspaper, showed the senior civil servant, who held higher security clearances in two government departments, was able to avoid initial detection by lying about his employment history.
Disgraceful!
Only non-executive directors are allowed to have multiple jobs paying a fortune for sod all.
I'm not sure this was the public sector productivity we were looking for.

Perhaps it demonstrates that if one person can do three civil servant jobs then those jobs are really not genuinely full time. It is a bit like being a backbench MP.

Daveyboy1961 · 5:37PM

Pagan2 said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

Pagan2 said:
People on this board I think do fairly nicely from the lib/lab/con nothing changes position they might get a little less well off but not by much.....Thats a privliged postion not held by about 70% of people where a lot of the centrist policies of either of the three parties actually makes them worse off than they were before....don't think many here live in the world inhabited by most of the country
It's a view I suppose...
Suggest a reason to doubt what I said then, most pensioners here are on defined benefit pensions giving them a total income well above min wage...name one thats not....of those still working we have people like rochdale, richard tyndall, casino royale all have hinted at salaries 6 figures or more....even chb has said he is living in a parental house so not having to pay rent as I remember

Name one person other than me that is not working for a company and paying rent? Morris dancer maybe

A 40 hr week at minimum wage is almost double my pension. Don't fall for the media propaganda of rich pensioners please. What savings I have pushes me into tax due to the interest payments, just. I would have dreamed of a six figure salary. Mine is only 6 figures if you include the pence.

I paid rent/ a mortgage for 45 years before I retired.

Taz · 5:39PM

Nigelb said:

Taz said:

Dura_Ace said:

Luckyguy1983 said:
In a way it's a bit of a shame that Reform are doing so well in Runcorn polling, as if they walk it, Farage's fairly bad behaviour over Lowe will be rewarded.
That species of restless treachery is so inimical to Farage that you can't ascribe a moral cast to it like "bad behaviour".

It is as natural and necessary to him as breathing is to me or you.
That’s a terrific line and one Avon used to Servalan in an episode of,the seminal BBC sci,fi show Blakes 7.
It would be, except that 'inimical' is pretty well the opposite of 'intrinsic', which was probably meant.

As Spock often said, ‘fascinating’

Taz · 5:41PM

Daveyboy1961 said:

Pagan2 said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

Pagan2 said:
People on this board I think do fairly nicely from the lib/lab/con nothing changes position they might get a little less well off but not by much.....Thats a privliged postion not held by about 70% of people where a lot of the centrist policies of either of the three parties actually makes them worse off than they were before....don't think many here live in the world inhabited by most of the country
It's a view I suppose...
Suggest a reason to doubt what I said then, most pensioners here are on defined benefit pensions giving them a total income well above min wage...name one thats not....of those still working we have people like rochdale, richard tyndall, casino royale all have hinted at salaries 6 figures or more....even chb has said he is living in a parental house so not having to pay rent as I remember

Name one person other than me that is not working for a company and paying rent? Morris dancer maybe
A 40 hr week at minimum wage is almost double my pension. Don't fall for the media propaganda of rich pensioners please. What savings I have pushes me into tax due to the interest payments, just. I would have dreamed of a six figure salary. Mine is only 6 figures if you include the pence.

I paid rent/ a mortgage for 45 years before I retired.

Do you have private provision too ?

The quarter of a pensioners are millionaires line is based on their assets, so House and pension pot. It fails to take into account that pension pot has to pay their wages for the rest of their lives.

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