Alex Salmond has died – politicalbetting.com

FPT:

RIP Ales Salmond.

I did not agree with some of his politics, but he fought tenaciously for his views. His successors are/were non-entities in comparison.

(If anyone can get in quick, Wiki's still not been updated...)

Not an old man, a shocking situation.

Cookie said:

rcs1000 said:

Leon said:

Benpointer said:

Leon said:

rcs1000 said:

Leon said:

rcs1000 said:

Leon said:

Wow

Poland suspends the right of asylum

"Poland will “temporarily suspend the right to asylum”, announced
@donaldtusk
in a speech outlining a tougher new migration strategy aimed at “regaining control and ensuring security".

"I will demand recognition of this decision in Europe," he added"

https://x.com/notesfrompoland/status/1845062353865302380

"🇵🇱Polish Prime Minister has announced a migration strategy for Poland:

‘One of the elements of the migration strategy will be the temporary, territorial suspension of the right to asylum and I will demand the right to recognize this decision in Europe.’

‘We will not implement European ideas if we are certain that they harm our interests. And I am talking about the migration pact’

And this is "moderate" Donald Tusk

Asylum, migration and Schengen are breaking Europe into pieces

Schengen is generally popular : take Switzerland, they narrowly voted to join about 15 years ago, but polls now show support of 70:30.

Less popular in Germany, where it has now been effectively suspended

So you now need to show your passport at a border post when you cross?

And trains now have passport inspectors on them?

Or perhaps - to quote the German government page: "travelers within the Schengen Area may face random inspections when entering Germany"?

Which is why I said "effectively", not entirely

So, 'effectively' means: 'not at all'.

The whole point of Schengen is COMPLETE Free Movement, nothing at all stopping anyone moving from one Schengen country to another. That has been suspended, in effect, in Germany. Total Free Movement has ended. However they have not brought back the border guards and barbed wire. Yet

Sure, sure.

That's what "effectively" means. Everyone agrees with you.

No, I'm with Leon on this point of extreme pedantry. Schengen meant no limitations to movement within the Schengen area. There now are limitations. So it's been suspended.

Would that mean free movement in the UK was suspended if roadblocks were put up to catch an escaped criminal?

He was always impressive in his performances, a cheeky grin and then a ripping apart of the opposing argument.

Mcgobsmaked

I didint agree with him but could respect him as a principled politician.

Sky news is running tributes from various politicians to Salmond. BBC yet to report his death. I know the BBC is supposed to verify everything but it is appearing as hopelessly out of touch.

rottenborough said:

Nothing on BBC website nor Guardian.

BBC has it now.

An important politician, brought low by his own party.

Be interesting to see what comes out now.

rcs1000 said:

Cookie said:

rcs1000 said:

Leon said:

Benpointer said:

Leon said:

rcs1000 said:

Leon said:

rcs1000 said:

Leon said:

Wow

Poland suspends the right of asylum

"Poland will “temporarily suspend the right to asylum”, announced
@donaldtusk
in a speech outlining a tougher new migration strategy aimed at “regaining control and ensuring security".

"I will demand recognition of this decision in Europe," he added"

https://x.com/notesfrompoland/status/1845062353865302380

"🇵🇱Polish Prime Minister has announced a migration strategy for Poland:

‘One of the elements of the migration strategy will be the temporary, territorial suspension of the right to asylum and I will demand the right to recognize this decision in Europe.’

‘We will not implement European ideas if we are certain that they harm our interests. And I am talking about the migration pact’

And this is "moderate" Donald Tusk

Asylum, migration and Schengen are breaking Europe into pieces

Schengen is generally popular : take Switzerland, they narrowly voted to join about 15 years ago, but polls now show support of 70:30.

Less popular in Germany, where it has now been effectively suspended

So you now need to show your passport at a border post when you cross?

And trains now have passport inspectors on them?

Or perhaps - to quote the German government page: "travelers within the Schengen Area may face random inspections when entering Germany"?

Which is why I said "effectively", not entirely

So, 'effectively' means: 'not at all'.

The whole point of Schengen is COMPLETE Free Movement, nothing at all stopping anyone moving from one Schengen country to another. That has been suspended, in effect, in Germany. Total Free Movement has ended. However they have not brought back the border guards and barbed wire. Yet

Sure, sure.

That's what "effectively" means. Everyone agrees with you.

No, I'm with Leon on this point of extreme pedantry. Schengen meant no limitations to movement within the Schengen area. There now are limitations. So it's been suspended.

Would that mean free movement in the UK was suspended if roadblocks were put up to catch an escaped criminal?

Here's a professor of EU law calling it "a de facto suspension of Schengen", which is very close to my "effectively" -as in "indirectly"

"The way Europeans and residents of the EU live their lives is now at risk, and their governments and leaders are to blame

Great story on the de facto suspension of #schengen and imminent crumbling by ⁦
@GuyChazan
⁩ ⁦
⁩ ⁦
@FT"

https://x.com/alemannoEU/status/1842877857132957770

For this second meaning of "effectively" see here:


effectively
/ɪˈfɛktɪvli/
adverb
1 in such a manner as to achieve a desired result.
"make sure that resources are used effectively"

2 indirectly; actually but not officially or explicitly.
"they were effectively controlled by the people they were supposed to be investigating"

Same age as Bowie.

kinabalu said:

SandraMc said:

Sky news is running tributes from various politicians to Salmond. BBC yet to report his death. I know the BBC is supposed to verify everything but it is appearing as hopelessly out of touch.

Does a few minutes matter that much?

Yes.

69 isn't particularly young, is it?

dixiedean said:

69 isn't particularly young, is it?

In Scots years its actually 83.

dixiedean said:

69 isn't particularly young, is it?

It's not so young we'd be stunned but it's not so old as to be expected.

MarqueeMark said:

An important politician, brought low by his own party.

Be interesting to see what comes out now.

I think it's fair to say he helped 'his own party' in bringing himself low...

But undoubtedly an extraordinary political talent.

@malcolmg will be sad.

Sorry to hear Salmond has died. Saw him in the Commons once holding court and despite the accusations and case against him of which he was acquitted and the fact I disagreed with him on most issues he was a towering figure in not only Scottish but also UK politics.

The first SNP First Minister and who got Yes to 45% in the 2014 referendum which only happened due to the SNP majority he won in 2011.

Hopefully Nicola Sturgeon wasn't on camera when she heard the news.

RIP one of The Big Beasts of U.K. politics

kinabalu said:

Same age as Bowie.

And as far as I am concerned (Rebel, Rebel excepted) a better singer and songwriter.

Once the dust settles I can explain what I really thought of the jury's verdict in his trial. #onlyinscotland

TimS said:

Leon said:

rcs1000 said:

Cookie said:

rcs1000 said:

Leon said:

Benpointer said:

Leon said:

rcs1000 said:

Leon said:

rcs1000 said:

Leon said:

Wow

Poland suspends the right of asylum

"Poland will “temporarily suspend the right to asylum”, announced
@donaldtusk
in a speech outlining a tougher new migration strategy aimed at “regaining control and ensuring security".

"I will demand recognition of this decision in Europe," he added"

https://x.com/notesfrompoland/status/1845062353865302380

"🇵🇱Polish Prime Minister has announced a migration strategy for Poland:

‘One of the elements of the migration strategy will be the temporary, territorial suspension of the right to asylum and I will demand the right to recognize this decision in Europe.’

‘We will not implement European ideas if we are certain that they harm our interests. And I am talking about the migration pact’

And this is "moderate" Donald Tusk

Asylum, migration and Schengen are breaking Europe into pieces

Schengen is generally popular : take Switzerland, they narrowly voted to join about 15 years ago, but polls now show support of 70:30.

Less popular in Germany, where it has now been effectively suspended

So you now need to show your passport at a border post when you cross?

And trains now have passport inspectors on them?

Or perhaps - to quote the German government page: "travelers within the Schengen Area may face random inspections when entering Germany"?

Which is why I said "effectively", not entirely

So, 'effectively' means: 'not at all'.

The whole point of Schengen is COMPLETE Free Movement, nothing at all stopping anyone moving from one Schengen country to another. That has been suspended, in effect, in Germany. Total Free Movement has ended. However they have not brought back the border guards and barbed wire. Yet

Sure, sure.

That's what "effectively" means. Everyone agrees with you.

No, I'm with Leon on this point of extreme pedantry. Schengen meant no limitations to movement within the Schengen area. There now are limitations. So it's been suspended.

Would that mean free movement in the UK was suspended if roadblocks were put up to catch an escaped criminal?

Here's a professor of EU law calling it "a de facto suspension of Schengen", which is very close to my "effectively" -as in "indirectly"

"The way Europeans and residents of the EU live their lives is now at risk, and their governments and leaders are to blame

Great story on the de facto suspension of #schengen and imminent crumbling by ⁦
@GuyChazan
⁩ ⁦
⁩ ⁦
@FT"

https://x.com/alemannoEU/status/1842877857132957770

For this second meaning of "effectively" see here:


effectively
/ɪˈfɛktɪvli/
adverb
1 in such a manner as to achieve a desired result.
"make sure that resources are used effectively"

2 indirectly; actually but not officially or explicitly.
"they were effectively controlled by the people they were supposed to be investigating"

What is suggests to me is that Germany has watered down Schengen. I can see why the professor is annoyed - it looks a bit slippery slopeish and not done. But a de facto suspension sounds like hyperbole to me.

The big thing with Schengen is the ability just to walk, cycle or drive over the border with nothing but a “welcome to country x” sign. I love it - one of the joys of European travel. Especially wonderful on the high Alpine passes, or on the Riviera where one second you’re in France, then it’s Monaco then mamma Mia you’re in Italy.

Switzerland, while a member, does rather spoil the effect by having erected lots of customs infrastructure and waving you over into a lane for inspection if they think you’re carrying contraband, or haven’t got your motorway tag for the year.

I like Schengen too, I love the freedom you describe

But in effect Schengen has been suspended, in purely legal terms. Absolute Free Movement is no more, on several frontiers

I hope new technology will mean an end to all international borders: it should do so, and it will be cool as fuck

Secutity will be done by robots, drones and cameras and the like, operating out of sight but much more effectively than any border guards or customs posts

TimS said:

carnforth said:

dixiedean said:

69 isn't particularly young, is it?

Any death under 75 is considered early now, I would think. Progress.

69 is bloody young. And for all his excess weight and love of a drink Salmond wasn’t exactly a wheezing geriatric struggling to make it to the shops, or a wobbling obesity stat. He was energetic, fully comps mentis, the sort who would bound along the corridors at high speed. I heard him on any questions recently - very much prime of life.

Events like these make you face your own mortality just that little bit more seriously.

Buy a smartwatch

MattW said:

Leon said:

rcs1000 said:

Cookie said:

rcs1000 said:

Leon said:

Benpointer said:

Leon said:

rcs1000 said:

Leon said:

rcs1000 said:

Leon said:

Wow

Poland suspends the right of asylum

"Poland will “temporarily suspend the right to asylum”, announced
@donaldtusk
in a speech outlining a tougher new migration strategy aimed at “regaining control and ensuring security".

"I will demand recognition of this decision in Europe," he added"

https://x.com/notesfrompoland/status/1845062353865302380

"🇵🇱Polish Prime Minister has announced a migration strategy for Poland:

‘One of the elements of the migration strategy will be the temporary, territorial suspension of the right to asylum and I will demand the right to recognize this decision in Europe.’

‘We will not implement European ideas if we are certain that they harm our interests. And I am talking about the migration pact’

And this is "moderate" Donald Tusk

Asylum, migration and Schengen are breaking Europe into pieces

Schengen is generally popular : take Switzerland, they narrowly voted to join about 15 years ago, but polls now show support of 70:30.

Less popular in Germany, where it has now been effectively suspended

So you now need to show your passport at a border post when you cross?

And trains now have passport inspectors on them?

Or perhaps - to quote the German government page: "travelers within the Schengen Area may face random inspections when entering Germany"?

Which is why I said "effectively", not entirely

So, 'effectively' means: 'not at all'.

The whole point of Schengen is COMPLETE Free Movement, nothing at all stopping anyone moving from one Schengen country to another. That has been suspended, in effect, in Germany. Total Free Movement has ended. However they have not brought back the border guards and barbed wire. Yet

Sure, sure.

That's what "effectively" means. Everyone agrees with you.

No, I'm with Leon on this point of extreme pedantry. Schengen meant no limitations to movement within the Schengen area. There now are limitations. So it's been suspended.

Would that mean free movement in the UK was suspended if roadblocks were put up to catch an escaped criminal?

Here's a professor of EU law calling it "a de facto suspension of Schengen", which is very close to my "effectively" -as in "indirectly"

"The way Europeans and residents of the EU live their lives is now at risk, and their governments and leaders are to blame

Great story on the de facto suspension of #schengen and imminent crumbling by ⁦
@GuyChazan
⁩ ⁦
⁩ ⁦
@FT"

https://x.com/alemannoEU/status/1842877857132957770

For this second meaning of "effectively" see here:


effectively
/ɪˈfɛktɪvli/
adverb
1 in such a manner as to achieve a desired result.
"make sure that resources are used effectively"

2 indirectly; actually but not officially or explicitly.
"they were effectively controlled by the people they were supposed to be investigating"

Hmm. Good job the Ireland-UK border is not affected by Schengen. That would have been interesting.

And when Orban is in the Chair.

Britain should have joined Schengen. It would have made Brexit so much easier. I would still have spare pages in my passport for a start.

You can be in Schengen without having free movement, a customs union or single market membership (much though I’d prefer all 3). And you don’t have to be in the EU. It doesn’t stop you catching and deporting illegal immigrants, checking vehicles for drugs or firearms or enforcing visa restrictions. But it does mean you could just rock up to St Pancras and hop on the train like you do the Thalys from Paris to Brussels.

Leon said:

TimS said:

Leon said:

rcs1000 said:

Cookie said:

rcs1000 said:

Leon said:

Benpointer said:

Leon said:

rcs1000 said:

Leon said:

rcs1000 said:

Leon said:

Wow

Poland suspends the right of asylum

"Poland will “temporarily suspend the right to asylum”, announced
@donaldtusk
in a speech outlining a tougher new migration strategy aimed at “regaining control and ensuring security".

"I will demand recognition of this decision in Europe," he added"

https://x.com/notesfrompoland/status/1845062353865302380

"🇵🇱Polish Prime Minister has announced a migration strategy for Poland:

‘One of the elements of the migration strategy will be the temporary, territorial suspension of the right to asylum and I will demand the right to recognize this decision in Europe.’

‘We will not implement European ideas if we are certain that they harm our interests. And I am talking about the migration pact’

And this is "moderate" Donald Tusk

Asylum, migration and Schengen are breaking Europe into pieces

Schengen is generally popular : take Switzerland, they narrowly voted to join about 15 years ago, but polls now show support of 70:30.

Less popular in Germany, where it has now been effectively suspended

So you now need to show your passport at a border post when you cross?

And trains now have passport inspectors on them?

Or perhaps - to quote the German government page: "travelers within the Schengen Area may face random inspections when entering Germany"?

Which is why I said "effectively", not entirely

So, 'effectively' means: 'not at all'.

The whole point of Schengen is COMPLETE Free Movement, nothing at all stopping anyone moving from one Schengen country to another. That has been suspended, in effect, in Germany. Total Free Movement has ended. However they have not brought back the border guards and barbed wire. Yet

Sure, sure.

That's what "effectively" means. Everyone agrees with you.

No, I'm with Leon on this point of extreme pedantry. Schengen meant no limitations to movement within the Schengen area. There now are limitations. So it's been suspended.

Would that mean free movement in the UK was suspended if roadblocks were put up to catch an escaped criminal?

Here's a professor of EU law calling it "a de facto suspension of Schengen", which is very close to my "effectively" -as in "indirectly"

"The way Europeans and residents of the EU live their lives is now at risk, and their governments and leaders are to blame

Great story on the de facto suspension of #schengen and imminent crumbling by ⁦
@GuyChazan
⁩ ⁦
⁩ ⁦
@FT"

https://x.com/alemannoEU/status/1842877857132957770

For this second meaning of "effectively" see here:


effectively
/ɪˈfɛktɪvli/
adverb
1 in such a manner as to achieve a desired result.
"make sure that resources are used effectively"

2 indirectly; actually but not officially or explicitly.
"they were effectively controlled by the people they were supposed to be investigating"

What is suggests to me is that Germany has watered down Schengen. I can see why the professor is annoyed - it looks a bit slippery slopeish and not done. But a de facto suspension sounds like hyperbole to me.

The big thing with Schengen is the ability just to walk, cycle or drive over the border with nothing but a “welcome to country x” sign. I love it - one of the joys of European travel. Especially wonderful on the high Alpine passes, or on the Riviera where one second you’re in France, then it’s Monaco then mamma Mia you’re in Italy.

Switzerland, while a member, does rather spoil the effect by having erected lots of customs infrastructure and waving you over into a lane for inspection if they think you’re carrying contraband, or haven’t got your motorway tag for the year.

I like Schengen too, I love the freedom you describe


But in effect Schengen has been suspended, in purely legal terms. Absolute Free Movement is no more, on several frontiers

I hope new technology will mean an end to all international borders: it should do so, and it will be cool as fuck

Secutity will be done by robots, drones and cameras and the like, operating out of sight but much more effectively than any border guards or customs posts

I expect the technology already exists to do exactly that, but bureaucratic inertia will leave us waiting several decades, unless there’s another reason (ie counterterrorist surveillance) why it becomes a priority.

TimS said:

carnforth said:

dixiedean said:

69 isn't particularly young, is it?

Any death under 75 is considered early now, I would think. Progress.

69 is bloody young. And for all his excess weight and love of a drink Salmond wasn’t exactly a wheezing geriatric struggling to make it to the shops, or a wobbling obesity stat. He was energetic, fully comps mentis, the sort who would bound along the corridors at high speed. I heard him on any questions recently - very much prime of life.

Events like these make you face your own mortality just that little bit more seriously.

Having an energetic and boisterous personality does not make up for the physical limitations that your organs can endure. People need to stop kidding themselves.

(We don't know how or why Salmond died)

HYUFD said:

williamglenn said:

Hopefully Nicola Sturgeon wasn't on camera when she heard the news.

Sturgeon was the Theresa May to Salmond's Scottish Boris

Sturgeon is increasingly diminished as time goes by, Salmond seems ever more impressive - how close he came to winning in 2014

Shockingly sudden. Salmond could be said to a politician who ultimately fell victim to his own successes.

Turned Scottish independence from something slightly odd old men in draughty halls romanticised to a genuine possibility. Then had to honour a promise to resign when lost a referendum that was arguably only possible and close due to him (with a little help from Mel Gibson).

Realised the possibilities of pitching the SNP as a 'progressive' alternative to Labour - but then ultimately became persona non-grata for not being 'progressive' enough.

And of course though genial, could be politically brutal, and passed that on to a protege who then was fairly brutal in ostracising him when he was deemed a liability.

RIP.

TimS said:

Leon said:

TimS said:

Leon said:

rcs1000 said:

Cookie said:

rcs1000 said:

Leon said:

Benpointer said:

Leon said:

rcs1000 said:

Leon said:

rcs1000 said:

Leon said:

Wow

Poland suspends the right of asylum

"Poland will “temporarily suspend the right to asylum”, announced
@donaldtusk
in a speech outlining a tougher new migration strategy aimed at “regaining control and ensuring security".

"I will demand recognition of this decision in Europe," he added"

https://x.com/notesfrompoland/status/1845062353865302380

"🇵🇱Polish Prime Minister has announced a migration strategy for Poland:

‘One of the elements of the migration strategy will be the temporary, territorial suspension of the right to asylum and I will demand the right to recognize this decision in Europe.’

‘We will not implement European ideas if we are certain that they harm our interests. And I am talking about the migration pact’

And this is "moderate" Donald Tusk

Asylum, migration and Schengen are breaking Europe into pieces

Schengen is generally popular : take Switzerland, they narrowly voted to join about 15 years ago, but polls now show support of 70:30.

Less popular in Germany, where it has now been effectively suspended

So you now need to show your passport at a border post when you cross?

And trains now have passport inspectors on them?

Or perhaps - to quote the German government page: "travelers within the Schengen Area may face random inspections when entering Germany"?

Which is why I said "effectively", not entirely

So, 'effectively' means: 'not at all'.

The whole point of Schengen is COMPLETE Free Movement, nothing at all stopping anyone moving from one Schengen country to another. That has been suspended, in effect, in Germany. Total Free Movement has ended. However they have not brought back the border guards and barbed wire. Yet

Sure, sure.

That's what "effectively" means. Everyone agrees with you.

No, I'm with Leon on this point of extreme pedantry. Schengen meant no limitations to movement within the Schengen area. There now are limitations. So it's been suspended.

Would that mean free movement in the UK was suspended if roadblocks were put up to catch an escaped criminal?

Here's a professor of EU law calling it "a de facto suspension of Schengen", which is very close to my "effectively" -as in "indirectly"

"The way Europeans and residents of the EU live their lives is now at risk, and their governments and leaders are to blame

Great story on the de facto suspension of #schengen and imminent crumbling by ⁦
@GuyChazan
⁩ ⁦
⁩ ⁦
@FT"

https://x.com/alemannoEU/status/1842877857132957770

For this second meaning of "effectively" see here:


effectively
/ɪˈfɛktɪvli/
adverb
1 in such a manner as to achieve a desired result.
"make sure that resources are used effectively"

2 indirectly; actually but not officially or explicitly.
"they were effectively controlled by the people they were supposed to be investigating"

What is suggests to me is that Germany has watered down Schengen. I can see why the professor is annoyed - it looks a bit slippery slopeish and not done. But a de facto suspension sounds like hyperbole to me.

The big thing with Schengen is the ability just to walk, cycle or drive over the border with nothing but a “welcome to country x” sign. I love it - one of the joys of European travel. Especially wonderful on the high Alpine passes, or on the Riviera where one second you’re in France, then it’s Monaco then mamma Mia you’re in Italy.

Switzerland, while a member, does rather spoil the effect by having erected lots of customs infrastructure and waving you over into a lane for inspection if they think you’re carrying contraband, or haven’t got your motorway tag for the year.

I like Schengen too, I love the freedom you describe


But in effect Schengen has been suspended, in purely legal terms. Absolute Free Movement is no more, on several frontiers

I hope new technology will mean an end to all international borders: it should do so, and it will be cool as fuck

Secutity will be done by robots, drones and cameras and the like, operating out of sight but much more effectively than any border guards or customs posts

I expect the technology already exists to do exactly that, but bureaucratic inertia will leave us waiting several decades, unless there’s another reason (ie counterterrorist surveillance) why it becomes a priority.

It would require the guts to face up to the actual situation with regards to immigration and employment.

Nigelb said:

RIP indeed.
The closest Scottish politics has come to producing a political giant. And heaven knows England hasn't had any in recent years.

Brown? Love or loathe him he's a huge figure.

kle4 said:

rottenborough said:

kle4 said:

I don't think Corbynites are warming to Starmer. Watching the news with a Corbynite relative and at the P&O story they said Starmer needs shooting (something they are fond of saying about Tories) and his dad should have worn a condom.

I would have thought Corbynites would hate P&O and what it did to workers.

I can't keep up with the looney left.

They do hate P&O, they don't like Starmer cosying up to them.

In related news, they are back on board with the £1bn investment.

rottenborough said:

kle4 said:

I don't think Corbynites are warming to Starmer. Watching the news with a Corbynite relative and at the P&O story they said Starmer needs shooting (something they are fond of saying about Tories) and his dad should have worn a condom.

I would have thought Corbynites would hate P&O and what it did to workers.

I can't keep up with the looney left.

I don't think this is evidence of lefty lunacy

Starmer is, simply, intensely easy to dislike. He has that kind of personality. Zero charm or humour, an excess of self regard, vanity, and entitlement, and he hates being criticised. He can barely handle it. This will doom him

I read this about him from Rosie Duffield in the Telegraph, and thought Yep


"Although, over the years, Starmer often claimed to be having conversations with her, this was simply not the case. She finally begged for a meeting just before the election. In the end she got 20 minutes with him. “It was utterly pointless,” she says. “He just looks like he does on television, utterly bewildered by being challenged, and affronted as well. He is astonished that anyone dares to question him. Friends in the legal profession will say to me, that’s his barrister head, because if you question a barrister, they believe you’re questioning their knowledge of the law and their absolute expertise on their subject. I was questioning him about the two-child benefit cap, and how it looked, and he just seemed baffled.

“He is a politician who has no political talent.""

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/10/08/rosie-duffield-interview-labour-sue-gray-women-misogyny/

Undeniably a canny politician and much smarter than most we see nowadays. Becoming an SNP First minister and getting 45% in the independence referendum were historic achievements. The latter might not seem like it until you remember that historic polling would not have predicted they would get near that. The casual attitude of unionists to the result and subsequent events remains disappointing.

JosiasJessop said:

Putting my tinfoil hat on, I hope Salmond gets a thorough autopsy considering where he died.

Though why the Russians would want him dead is another matter...

Glad I'm not the only one.

Lot of Russian "activism" in Balkans.

Leon said:

rottenborough said:

kle4 said:

I don't think Corbynites are warming to Starmer. Watching the news with a Corbynite relative and at the P&O story they said Starmer needs shooting (something they are fond of saying about Tories) and his dad should have worn a condom.

I would have thought Corbynites would hate P&O and what it did to workers.

I can't keep up with the looney left.

I don't think this is evidence of lefty lunacy

Starmer is, simply, intensely easy to dislike. He has that kind of personality. Zero charm or humour, an excess of self regard, vanity, and entitlement, and he hates being criticised. He can barely handle it. This will doom him

I read this about him from Rosie Duffield in the Telegraph, and thought Yep


"Although, over the years, Starmer often claimed to be having conversations with her, this was simply not the case. She finally begged for a meeting just before the election. In the end she got 20 minutes with him. “It was utterly pointless,” she says. “He just looks like he does on television, utterly bewildered by being challenged, and affronted as well. He is astonished that anyone dares to question him. Friends in the legal profession will say to me, that’s his barrister head, because if you question a barrister, they believe you’re questioning their knowledge of the law and their absolute expertise on their subject. I was questioning him about the two-child benefit cap, and how it looked, and he just seemed baffled.

“He is a politician who has no political talent.""

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/10/08/rosie-duffield-interview-labour-sue-gray-women-misogyny/

Thinking he should be shot is evidence of lefty lunacy. I doubt even most of them go that far!

MJW said:

kle4 said:

rottenborough said:

kle4 said:

I don't think Corbynites are warming to Starmer. Watching the news with a Corbynite relative and at the P&O story they said Starmer needs shooting (something they are fond of saying about Tories) and his dad should have worn a condom.

I would have thought Corbynites would hate P&O and what it did to workers.

I can't keep up with the looney left.

They do hate P&O, they don't like Starmer cosying up to them.

In related news, they are back on board with the £1bn investment.

So the Government has totally failed to collapse AGAIN?

I'm shocked, shocked I tell you !

rottenborough said:

Black voters drifting to Trump reports NY Times.

Turkeys and Christmas comes to mind.

This gets wheeled out at by the US media at every election then come the day the margins are similar . The NY Times might have endorsed Harris but they often sanewash what Trumps been upto .

JosiasJessop said:

Putting my tinfoil hat on, I hope Salmond gets a thorough autopsy considering where he died.

Though why the Russians would want him dead is another matter...

He was a big bloke. That's probably the likeliest explanation. I never disliked him in the way that some did. I find it very sad that he died a long way from home and probably pretty much alone.

Leon said:

rottenborough said:

Leon said:

rottenborough said:

kle4 said:

I don't think Corbynites are warming to Starmer. Watching the news with a Corbynite relative and at the P&O story they said Starmer needs shooting (something they are fond of saying about Tories) and his dad should have worn a condom.

I would have thought Corbynites would hate P&O and what it did to workers.

I can't keep up with the looney left.

I don't think this is evidence of lefty lunacy

Starmer is, simply, intensely easy to dislike. He has that kind of personality. Zero charm or humour, an excess of self regard, vanity, and entitlement, and he hates being criticised. He can barely handle it. This will doom him

I read this about him from Rosie Duffield in the Telegraph, and thought Yep


"Although, over the years, Starmer often claimed to be having conversations with her, this was simply not the case. She finally begged for a meeting just before the election. In the end she got 20 minutes with him. “It was utterly pointless,” she says. “He just looks like he does on television, utterly bewildered by being challenged, and affronted as well. He is astonished that anyone dares to question him. Friends in the legal profession will say to me, that’s his barrister head, because if you question a barrister, they believe you’re questioning their knowledge of the law and their absolute expertise on their subject. I was questioning him about the two-child benefit cap, and how it looked, and he just seemed baffled.

“He is a politician who has no political talent.""

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/10/08/rosie-duffield-interview-labour-sue-gray-women-misogyny/

Yet somehow he won the lab leadership, turned the party around and won a landslide.

He got extremely lucky: he was the last man standing with Corbyn, the Tories imploded, Covid and Ukraine speeded them on, and so on

What Starmer is good at is being a stroppy opposition player, he is competitive, and he was needling and persistent in the Commons. He probably accelerated the Tories' demise, to a modest extent

But the landslide is built on sand. 33.7% on a 60% turnout. Against one of the most unpopular governments in many decades. That shows how poor he is, in reality, and he's not going to get better

Indeed, there have been 5 A+ politicians in UK politics this century, Tony Blair, David Cameron, Boris Johnson, Nigel Farage and yes also Alex Salmond. Starmer is not one of them, nor are Jenrick or Badenoch

rottenborough said:

Black voters drifting to Trump reports NY Times.

Turkeys and Christmas comes to mind.

This is the problem. The immediate reaction is to patronise not seek to understand. Frank Luntz has said again and again that Trump's appeal is due to immigration and inflation.

FrankBooth said:

rottenborough said:

Black voters drifting to Trump reports NY Times.

Turkeys and Christmas comes to mind.

This is the problem. The immediate reaction is to patronise not seek to understand. Frank Luntz has said again and again that Trump's appeal is due to immigration and inflation.

And Harris has been trying to hit hard on immigration. I think they do get the issue.

HYUFD said:

Leon said:

rottenborough said:

Leon said:

rottenborough said:

kle4 said:

I don't think Corbynites are warming to Starmer. Watching the news with a Corbynite relative and at the P&O story they said Starmer needs shooting (something they are fond of saying about Tories) and his dad should have worn a condom.

I would have thought Corbynites would hate P&O and what it did to workers.

I can't keep up with the looney left.

I don't think this is evidence of lefty lunacy

Starmer is, simply, intensely easy to dislike. He has that kind of personality. Zero charm or humour, an excess of self regard, vanity, and entitlement, and he hates being criticised. He can barely handle it. This will doom him

I read this about him from Rosie Duffield in the Telegraph, and thought Yep


"Although, over the years, Starmer often claimed to be having conversations with her, this was simply not the case. She finally begged for a meeting just before the election. In the end she got 20 minutes with him. “It was utterly pointless,” she says. “He just looks like he does on television, utterly bewildered by being challenged, and affronted as well. He is astonished that anyone dares to question him. Friends in the legal profession will say to me, that’s his barrister head, because if you question a barrister, they believe you’re questioning their knowledge of the law and their absolute expertise on their subject. I was questioning him about the two-child benefit cap, and how it looked, and he just seemed baffled.

“He is a politician who has no political talent.""

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/10/08/rosie-duffield-interview-labour-sue-gray-women-misogyny/

Yet somehow he won the lab leadership, turned the party around and won a landslide.

He got extremely lucky: he was the last man standing with Corbyn, the Tories imploded, Covid and Ukraine speeded them on, and so on

What Starmer is good at is being a stroppy opposition player, he is competitive, and he was needling and persistent in the Commons. He probably accelerated the Tories' demise, to a modest extent

But the landslide is built on sand. 33.7% on a 60% turnout. Against one of the most unpopular governments in many decades. That shows how poor he is, in reality, and he's not going to get better

Indeed, there have been 5 A+ politicians in UK politics this century, Tony Blair, David Cameron, Boris Johnson, Nigel Farage and yes also Alex Salmond. Starmer is not one of them, nor are Jenrick or Badenoch

Boris is not an “A+ politician”.
While one cannot deny his charisma, he really barely rates on any ordinary political dimension. Though oftent touted for his campaigning, he doesn’t actually even do that. He’s essentially a television personality.

Your list omits Brown, Sturgeon, and perhaps Drake, perhaps Gove, perhaps Osborn.

JosiasJessop said:

Putting my tinfoil hat on, I hope Salmond gets a thorough autopsy considering where he died.

Though why the Russians would want him dead is another matter...

Certainly not the Russians even if there was anything suspicious, he was a regular presenter on Russia Today

TimS said:

MattW said:

Leon said:

rcs1000 said:

Cookie said:

rcs1000 said:

Leon said:

Benpointer said:

Leon said:

rcs1000 said:

Leon said:

rcs1000 said:

Leon said:

Wow

Poland suspends the right of asylum

"Poland will “temporarily suspend the right to asylum”, announced
@donaldtusk
in a speech outlining a tougher new migration strategy aimed at “regaining control and ensuring security".

"I will demand recognition of this decision in Europe," he added"

https://x.com/notesfrompoland/status/1845062353865302380

"🇵🇱Polish Prime Minister has announced a migration strategy for Poland:

‘One of the elements of the migration strategy will be the temporary, territorial suspension of the right to asylum and I will demand the right to recognize this decision in Europe.’

‘We will not implement European ideas if we are certain that they harm our interests. And I am talking about the migration pact’

And this is "moderate" Donald Tusk

Asylum, migration and Schengen are breaking Europe into pieces

Schengen is generally popular : take Switzerland, they narrowly voted to join about 15 years ago, but polls now show support of 70:30.

Less popular in Germany, where it has now been effectively suspended

So you now need to show your passport at a border post when you cross?

And trains now have passport inspectors on them?

Or perhaps - to quote the German government page: "travelers within the Schengen Area may face random inspections when entering Germany"?

Which is why I said "effectively", not entirely

So, 'effectively' means: 'not at all'.

The whole point of Schengen is COMPLETE Free Movement, nothing at all stopping anyone moving from one Schengen country to another. That has been suspended, in effect, in Germany. Total Free Movement has ended. However they have not brought back the border guards and barbed wire. Yet

Sure, sure.

That's what "effectively" means. Everyone agrees with you.

No, I'm with Leon on this point of extreme pedantry. Schengen meant no limitations to movement within the Schengen area. There now are limitations. So it's been suspended.

Would that mean free movement in the UK was suspended if roadblocks were put up to catch an escaped criminal?

Here's a professor of EU law calling it "a de facto suspension of Schengen", which is very close to my "effectively" -as in "indirectly"

"The way Europeans and residents of the EU live their lives is now at risk, and their governments and leaders are to blame

Great story on the de facto suspension of #schengen and imminent crumbling by ⁦
@GuyChazan
⁩ ⁦
⁩ ⁦
@FT"

https://x.com/alemannoEU/status/1842877857132957770

For this second meaning of "effectively" see here:


effectively
/ɪˈfɛktɪvli/
adverb
1 in such a manner as to achieve a desired result.
"make sure that resources are used effectively"

2 indirectly; actually but not officially or explicitly.
"they were effectively controlled by the people they were supposed to be investigating"

Hmm. Good job the Ireland-UK border is not affected by Schengen. That would have been interesting.

And when Orban is in the Chair.

Britain should have joined Schengen. It would have made Brexit so much easier. I would still have spare pages in my passport for a start.

You can be in Schengen without having free movement, a customs union or single market membership (much though I’d prefer all 3). And you don’t have to be in the EU. It doesn’t stop you catching and deporting illegal immigrants, checking vehicles for drugs or firearms or enforcing visa restrictions. But it does mean you could just rock up to St Pancras and hop on the train like you do the Thalys from Paris to Brussels.

How would they count our three months? Or, are you suggested they'd let us have unlimited time - and live fully in another country - so long as we didn't work or claim benefits? Not sure that's allowed.

Is there a Schengen state without FoM?

darkage said:

TimS said:

Leon said:

rcs1000 said:

Cookie said:

rcs1000 said:

Leon said:

Benpointer said:

Leon said:

rcs1000 said:

Leon said:

rcs1000 said:

Leon said:

Wow

Poland suspends the right of asylum

"Poland will “temporarily suspend the right to asylum”, announced
@donaldtusk
in a speech outlining a tougher new migration strategy aimed at “regaining control and ensuring security".

"I will demand recognition of this decision in Europe," he added"

https://x.com/notesfrompoland/status/1845062353865302380

"🇵🇱Polish Prime Minister has announced a migration strategy for Poland:

‘One of the elements of the migration strategy will be the temporary, territorial suspension of the right to asylum and I will demand the right to recognize this decision in Europe.’

‘We will not implement European ideas if we are certain that they harm our interests. And I am talking about the migration pact’

And this is "moderate" Donald Tusk

Asylum, migration and Schengen are breaking Europe into pieces

Schengen is generally popular : take Switzerland, they narrowly voted to join about 15 years ago, but polls now show support of 70:30.

Less popular in Germany, where it has now been effectively suspended

So you now need to show your passport at a border post when you cross?

And trains now have passport inspectors on them?

Or perhaps - to quote the German government page: "travelers within the Schengen Area may face random inspections when entering Germany"?

Which is why I said "effectively", not entirely

So, 'effectively' means: 'not at all'.

The whole point of Schengen is COMPLETE Free Movement, nothing at all stopping anyone moving from one Schengen country to another. That has been suspended, in effect, in Germany. Total Free Movement has ended. However they have not brought back the border guards and barbed wire. Yet

Sure, sure.

That's what "effectively" means. Everyone agrees with you.

No, I'm with Leon on this point of extreme pedantry. Schengen meant no limitations to movement within the Schengen area. There now are limitations. So it's been suspended.

Would that mean free movement in the UK was suspended if roadblocks were put up to catch an escaped criminal?

Here's a professor of EU law calling it "a de facto suspension of Schengen", which is very close to my "effectively" -as in "indirectly"

"The way Europeans and residents of the EU live their lives is now at risk, and their governments and leaders are to blame

Great story on the de facto suspension of #schengen and imminent crumbling by ⁦
@GuyChazan
⁩ ⁦
⁩ ⁦
@FT"

https://x.com/alemannoEU/status/1842877857132957770

For this second meaning of "effectively" see here:


effectively
/ɪˈfɛktɪvli/
adverb
1 in such a manner as to achieve a desired result.
"make sure that resources are used effectively"

2 indirectly; actually but not officially or explicitly.
"they were effectively controlled by the people they were supposed to be investigating"

What is suggests to me is that Germany has watered down Schengen. I can see why the professor is annoyed - it looks a bit slippery slopeish and not done. But a de facto suspension sounds like hyperbole to me.

The big thing with Schengen is the ability just to walk, cycle or drive over the border with nothing but a “welcome to country x” sign. I love it - one of the joys of European travel. Especially wonderful on the high Alpine passes, or on the Riviera where one second you’re in France, then it’s Monaco then mamma Mia you’re in Italy.

Switzerland, while a member, does rather spoil the effect by having erected lots of customs infrastructure and waving you over into a lane for inspection if they think you’re carrying contraband, or haven’t got your motorway tag for the year.

Yes - it feels more like an evolution of schengen rather than its destruction. The reintroduction of border controls has been going on since pre covid years.

Yes there have been so-called reintroductions of border controls between loads of Schengen countries going on for decades already. Leon only heard about it the other day so think it's something world-shatteringly new, and he also confuses Schengen repeatedly with Freedom of Movement, which is an entirely different thing.

Gardenwalker said:

HYUFD said:

Leon said:

rottenborough said:

Leon said:

rottenborough said:

kle4 said:

I don't think Corbynites are warming to Starmer. Watching the news with a Corbynite relative and at the P&O story they said Starmer needs shooting (something they are fond of saying about Tories) and his dad should have worn a condom.

I would have thought Corbynites would hate P&O and what it did to workers.

I can't keep up with the looney left.

I don't think this is evidence of lefty lunacy

Starmer is, simply, intensely easy to dislike. He has that kind of personality. Zero charm or humour, an excess of self regard, vanity, and entitlement, and he hates being criticised. He can barely handle it. This will doom him

I read this about him from Rosie Duffield in the Telegraph, and thought Yep


"Although, over the years, Starmer often claimed to be having conversations with her, this was simply not the case. She finally begged for a meeting just before the election. In the end she got 20 minutes with him. “It was utterly pointless,” she says. “He just looks like he does on television, utterly bewildered by being challenged, and affronted as well. He is astonished that anyone dares to question him. Friends in the legal profession will say to me, that’s his barrister head, because if you question a barrister, they believe you’re questioning their knowledge of the law and their absolute expertise on their subject. I was questioning him about the two-child benefit cap, and how it looked, and he just seemed baffled.

“He is a politician who has no political talent.""

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/10/08/rosie-duffield-interview-labour-sue-gray-women-misogyny/

Yet somehow he won the lab leadership, turned the party around and won a landslide.

He got extremely lucky: he was the last man standing with Corbyn, the Tories imploded, Covid and Ukraine speeded them on, and so on

What Starmer is good at is being a stroppy opposition player, he is competitive, and he was needling and persistent in the Commons. He probably accelerated the Tories' demise, to a modest extent

But the landslide is built on sand. 33.7% on a 60% turnout. Against one of the most unpopular governments in many decades. That shows how poor he is, in reality, and he's not going to get better

Indeed, there have been 5 A+ politicians in UK politics this century, Tony Blair, David Cameron, Boris Johnson, Nigel Farage and yes also Alex Salmond. Starmer is not one of them, nor are Jenrick or Badenoch

Boris is not an “A+ politician”.
While one cannot deny his charisma, he really barely rates on any ordinary political dimension. Though oftent touted for his campaigning, he doesn’t actually even do that. He’s essentially a television personality.

Your list omits Brown, Sturgeon, and perhaps Drake, perhaps Gove, perhaps Osborn.

Would we now have a Labour government committed to being outside the single market without Boris Johnson? He sits alongside Thatcher and Blair as someone who changed the opposition party.

Northern_Al said:

69 is a shockingly young age to die these days.

(Northern_Al, age 68).

For most, though Princess Di, Ayrton Senna, Charles Kennedy, John Smith, Rob Burrow and JFK and Elvis to name just a few celebs died younger

kamski said:

darkage said:

TimS said:

Leon said:

rcs1000 said:

Cookie said:

rcs1000 said:

Leon said:

Benpointer said:

Leon said:

rcs1000 said:

Leon said:

rcs1000 said:

Leon said:

Wow

Poland suspends the right of asylum

"Poland will “temporarily suspend the right to asylum”, announced
@donaldtusk
in a speech outlining a tougher new migration strategy aimed at “regaining control and ensuring security".

"I will demand recognition of this decision in Europe," he added"

https://x.com/notesfrompoland/status/1845062353865302380

"🇵🇱Polish Prime Minister has announced a migration strategy for Poland:

‘One of the elements of the migration strategy will be the temporary, territorial suspension of the right to asylum and I will demand the right to recognize this decision in Europe.’

‘We will not implement European ideas if we are certain that they harm our interests. And I am talking about the migration pact’

And this is "moderate" Donald Tusk

Asylum, migration and Schengen are breaking Europe into pieces

Schengen is generally popular : take Switzerland, they narrowly voted to join about 15 years ago, but polls now show support of 70:30.

Less popular in Germany, where it has now been effectively suspended

So you now need to show your passport at a border post when you cross?

And trains now have passport inspectors on them?

Or perhaps - to quote the German government page: "travelers within the Schengen Area may face random inspections when entering Germany"?

Which is why I said "effectively", not entirely

So, 'effectively' means: 'not at all'.

The whole point of Schengen is COMPLETE Free Movement, nothing at all stopping anyone moving from one Schengen country to another. That has been suspended, in effect, in Germany. Total Free Movement has ended. However they have not brought back the border guards and barbed wire. Yet

Sure, sure.

That's what "effectively" means. Everyone agrees with you.

No, I'm with Leon on this point of extreme pedantry. Schengen meant no limitations to movement within the Schengen area. There now are limitations. So it's been suspended.

Would that mean free movement in the UK was suspended if roadblocks were put up to catch an escaped criminal?

Here's a professor of EU law calling it "a de facto suspension of Schengen", which is very close to my "effectively" -as in "indirectly"

"The way Europeans and residents of the EU live their lives is now at risk, and their governments and leaders are to blame

Great story on the de facto suspension of #schengen and imminent crumbling by ⁦
@GuyChazan
⁩ ⁦
⁩ ⁦
@FT"

https://x.com/alemannoEU/status/1842877857132957770

For this second meaning of "effectively" see here:


effectively
/ɪˈfɛktɪvli/
adverb
1 in such a manner as to achieve a desired result.
"make sure that resources are used effectively"

2 indirectly; actually but not officially or explicitly.
"they were effectively controlled by the people they were supposed to be investigating"

What is suggests to me is that Germany has watered down Schengen. I can see why the professor is annoyed - it looks a bit slippery slopeish and not done. But a de facto suspension sounds like hyperbole to me.

The big thing with Schengen is the ability just to walk, cycle or drive over the border with nothing but a “welcome to country x” sign. I love it - one of the joys of European travel. Especially wonderful on the high Alpine passes, or on the Riviera where one second you’re in France, then it’s Monaco then mamma Mia you’re in Italy.

Switzerland, while a member, does rather spoil the effect by having erected lots of customs infrastructure and waving you over into a lane for inspection if they think you’re carrying contraband, or haven’t got your motorway tag for the year.

Yes - it feels more like an evolution of schengen rather than its destruction. The reintroduction of border controls has been going on since pre covid years.

Yes there have been so-called reintroductions of border controls between loads of Schengen countries going on for decades already. Leon only heard about it the other day so think it's something world-shatteringly new, and he also confuses Schengen repeatedly with Freedom of Movement, which is an entirely different thing.

Not an entirely different thing at all. One is nested within the other, and underlines the other, as the EU Commission official website succinctly says:

"Free movement of persons enables every EU citizen to travel, work and live in an EU country without special formalities. Schengen underpins this freedom by enabling citizens to move around the Schengen Area without being subject to border checks."

https://home-affairs.ec.europa.eu/policies/schengen-borders-and-visa/schengen-area_en#:~:text=Free movement of persons enables,being subject to border checks.

You've got to laugh.

Eton among elite private schools set to cash in on windfall from new VAT rules
VAT-registered schools will be able to claim refunds for tax paid on capital projects over past 10 years
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2024/oct/12/eton-among-elite-private-schools-set-to-cash-in-on-windfall-from-new-vat-rules

Gardenwalker said:

HYUFD said:

Leon said:

rottenborough said:

Leon said:

rottenborough said:

kle4 said:

I don't think Corbynites are warming to Starmer. Watching the news with a Corbynite relative and at the P&O story they said Starmer needs shooting (something they are fond of saying about Tories) and his dad should have worn a condom.

I would have thought Corbynites would hate P&O and what it did to workers.

I can't keep up with the looney left.

I don't think this is evidence of lefty lunacy

Starmer is, simply, intensely easy to dislike. He has that kind of personality. Zero charm or humour, an excess of self regard, vanity, and entitlement, and he hates being criticised. He can barely handle it. This will doom him

I read this about him from Rosie Duffield in the Telegraph, and thought Yep


"Although, over the years, Starmer often claimed to be having conversations with her, this was simply not the case. She finally begged for a meeting just before the election. In the end she got 20 minutes with him. “It was utterly pointless,” she says. “He just looks like he does on television, utterly bewildered by being challenged, and affronted as well. He is astonished that anyone dares to question him. Friends in the legal profession will say to me, that’s his barrister head, because if you question a barrister, they believe you’re questioning their knowledge of the law and their absolute expertise on their subject. I was questioning him about the two-child benefit cap, and how it looked, and he just seemed baffled.

“He is a politician who has no political talent.""

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/10/08/rosie-duffield-interview-labour-sue-gray-women-misogyny/

Yet somehow he won the lab leadership, turned the party around and won a landslide.

He got extremely lucky: he was the last man standing with Corbyn, the Tories imploded, Covid and Ukraine speeded them on, and so on

What Starmer is good at is being a stroppy opposition player, he is competitive, and he was needling and persistent in the Commons. He probably accelerated the Tories' demise, to a modest extent

But the landslide is built on sand. 33.7% on a 60% turnout. Against one of the most unpopular governments in many decades. That shows how poor he is, in reality, and he's not going to get better

Indeed, there have been 5 A+ politicians in UK politics this century, Tony Blair, David Cameron, Boris Johnson, Nigel Farage and yes also Alex Salmond. Starmer is not one of them, nor are Jenrick or Badenoch

Boris is not an “A+ politician”.
While one cannot deny his charisma, he really barely rates on any ordinary political dimension. Though oftent touted for his campaigning, he doesn’t actually even do that. He’s essentially a television personality.

Your list omits Brown, Sturgeon, and perhaps Drake, perhaps Gove, perhaps Osborn.

Boris is an A+ politician, he delivered Brexit and won the biggest Tory majority since Thatcher.


Brown and Gove are B- politicians, even Osborne and Sturgeon only A-

FrankBooth said:

Undeniably a canny politician and much smarter than most we see nowadays. Becoming an SNP First minister and getting 45% in the independence referendum were historic achievements. The latter might not seem like it until you remember that historic polling would not have predicted they would get near that. The casual attitude of unionists to the result and subsequent events remains disappointing.

Salmond was like Stage One of the independence rocket. He blasted them up out of the UKs atmosphere (or so it seemed). A massive achievement. Problem was Stage Two failed to ignite (la Sturgeon) and they drifted back down to earth. They splashed down with Humza and Swinney is busy in the lifeboat.

WildernessPt2 said:

HYUFD said:

rottenborough said:

Black voters drifting to Trump reports NY Times.

Turkeys and Christmas comes to mind.

78% of Blacks still voting for Harris but less than the 90% who voted for Biden in 2020.

She needs to make use of the Obamas heavily in the final few weeks as Obama won 95% of the Black vote in 2008 and 93% of the Black vote in 2012. At the moment the only gains Harris has made relative to Biden in 2020 is amongst white college graduates. Yet while that will benefit her in a few swing states like North Carolina and Pennsylvania with lots of graduates it is not enough for her to win overall without Black voters turning out for her, especially as Trump has a big lead with white working class voters and has made inroads with Latinos
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/12/us/politics/poll-black-voters-harris-trump.html

That really weird (racist) grammar that capitalises Black but deliberately lower cases white. It's a style guide used throughout much of media.

As a result of a collision in my hash tables, I always hear “Black” in this context as “Blik”, pronounced by the late Joss Ackland.