politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » David Herdson on Saturday: Harriet Harman could become LAB
Comments
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Dr Fox,
You may not be "in the faith" as the Irish say, but an excellent summary.0 -
FoxinsoxukMoses_ said:Found a good paper reviewing the research here. The answer appears to be yes, sometimes, but its swamped by things like party affinity, and depends on the issues under consideration and the issues of the day, all voters lean more toward a male candidate when considering issues that are traditional male orientated (particularly military and law and order) and toward female candidates when considering issues that are stereotypically female areas of strength (health, family etc). This last bit suggests the key item is the extent to which you are successful in framing the debate around your candidate.
http://www.uh.edu/~pols1oj/paper3.htm
As health and family are where Labour wants to place the debate HH would be a neat fit.
Err nope ! This is what she has said about family so I don't think a good fit at all.
“ It cannot be assumed that men are bound to be an asset to family life or that the presence of fathers in families is necessarily a means to social cohesion" .
The rights of single mums and lone parents – that feminist untouchable - must be protected at all costs – whatever the cost.
In 2008 she told Civitas that there was "no ideal type of household in which to bring up children”. Break that rule and the feminist construct collapses.
Ha!
I'm not sure how anyone could represent a seat like Peckham and imagine that the presence of fathers in families isn't necessary.
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I think the spokesman over reacted, I don't agree with everything UKIP saylogical_song said:
You may agree with him but:isam said:
Haha actually I edited it and did address the substancelogical_song said:
That's a typical comment, not addressing the substance.isam said:
Nice neutral sourceslogical_song said:
Looks like you don't need major figures, UKIP people (James Elgar, Dave Small and Gerard Batten) make a pretty good job on their own:Socrates said:
Which major figures have accused UKIP of being Islamophobic?Freggles said:
I think Ed West's conclusion is wrong anyway: religion and race are not the same thing.
http://iengage.uk.net/news/islamophobic-remarks-ukip-candidate/
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/feb/04/ukip-mep-gerard-batten-muslims-sign-charter-rejecting-violence
http://www.islamophobiawatch.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/Dave-Small-Britain-used-to-be-for-the-British.png
http://www.muslimnews.co.uk/newspaper/islamophobia/ukip-candidate-islamophobic-tweet-row/
Do you deny that these UKIP candidates and members said what was reported?
But James Elgars tweets aren't incorrect in my opinion.. Obviously he is generalising but people of all creeds and colour do that when angry about the actions of a minority of a group, esp in tweets... I think it's a bit rich of people to quote what he said and act as if there is no substance to it
I agree with Gerard Battens idea, a conservative mp suggested something very similar a month or so ago in the commons
Pretending there isn't a threat from Islamic extremists here won't make it go away.
I spoke to a policeman yesterday who revealed some quite scary things about the number of foiled plots recently that don't get reported. The met are poised for an attack at Christmas it's almost inevitable
"A spokesperson from UKIP publically shamed the candidate: “These sorts of comments and images are utterly deplorable. Mr Elgar would appear to be a young man who still has plenty of growing up to do."
Who's pretending that there isn't a threat from islamic extremists? Where did you get that from?
Gerard Battens proposals were designed to establish trust between Muslim spokesman and the non muslim population, especially those who feel threatened by the constant threat of terrorism/plots... He was jumped on by the likes of The Guardian for it0 -
FoxinsoxukMoses_ said:Found a good paper reviewing the research here. The answer appears to be yes, sometimes, but its swamped by things like party affinity, and depends on the issues under consideration and the issues of the day, all voters lean more toward a male candidate when considering issues that are traditional male orientated (particularly military and law and order) and toward female candidates when considering issues that are stereotypically female areas of strength (health, family etc). This last bit suggests the key item is the extent to which you are successful in framing the debate around your candidate.
http://www.uh.edu/~pols1oj/paper3.htm
As health and family are where Labour wants to place the debate HH would be a neat fit.
Err nope ! This is what she has said about family so I don't think a good fit at all.
“ It cannot be assumed that men are bound to be an asset to family life or that the presence of fathers in families is necessarily a means to social cohesion" .
The rights of single mums and lone parents – that feminist untouchable - must be protected at all costs – whatever the cost.
In 2008 she told Civitas that there was "no ideal type of household in which to bring up children”. Break that rule and the feminist construct collapses.
Ha!
I see no contradiction. Labour supports family life including single parent families/divorced etc.
As half of kids born in the country are born out of wedlock, and a good percentage in divorced/separated status Labours is different than the traditional model, but as a result more relevant.0 -
Again, putting words into my mouth - not good.isam said:
Yes, I don't think it is deplorable for a young man to feel the way he does. Remember these tweets were before the Rotherham scandal came to light. It's not wrong to say that most of the perpetrators there were Asian, we saw last week an army veteran mugged for his medals by Asians, and I think all if the 7/7 bombers were Asian as were the people behind the foiled attempts a fortnight laterlogical_song said:
Here they are:isam said:
?logical_song said:
"A former youth member of UKIP has been condemned both by his party and the public following a stream of Islamophobic and sexist tweets.
James Elgar, 19, published a series of controversial tweets, including ‘#ThingsAsianBoysDo groom and rape underage white girls, stab and rob innocent old white people, bomb innocent white people #EctEctEct [sic]” and ‘There is [sic] no women in the CBB final? That’s because they are all in the kitchen where they belong…”.
In April 2013, he published the following tweet in response to the Boston bombings: “So there are Muslims cheering and celebrating the Boston Bombings today…really, really sums them up. #scum”.
Defending his son, Mark Elgar told journalists, “He is the least sexist and racist person you could ever meet…Last night he came home at 10.30pm with a curry.”
A spokesperson from UKIP publically shamed the candidate: “These sorts of comments and images are utterly deplorable. Mr Elgar would appear to be a young man who still has plenty of growing up to do. Our inquiries reveal that his UKIP membership in fact lapsed on January 1, 2014 and we shall not accept any renewal application from him.”
Could you tell me which bits you agree with?
The Boston bombers were Muslims, and he is reacting to Muslims cheering them
These things happened, they're not fictitious rumours... But you seem more upset about a teenager being angered by them
I don't think all Asians or Muslims are bad people of course not far from it. But it is somewhat discriminatory of you to disallow teenagers to be angry at what they see happening in the world. I have heard far far worse than that in the last seven days
Just for completeness do you agree that women belong in the kitchen?
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Mr. F, reminds me this nonsense:
https://twitter.com/femfreq/status/533445611543363585
"There’s no such thing as sexism against men. That's because sexism is prejudice + power. Men are the dominant gender with power in society."0 -
No, "yes it is", wouldn't have done. Because almost everyone who has a losing bet thinks it had more chance than the implied odds offered, that's why they have the bet.logical_song said:
"Yes it is" would have done. Thanks.isam said:
Yes it is... But that is just subjective really... It is rare for someone to make a case for something being value, and then it drift for six weeks and lose and still say "I got the value", because the market obviously disagreedlogical_song said:
I'm sure you'll correct me if I'm wrong, maybe even if I'm right ;-).isam said:
Yes but you said the value bet was the tories at 3/1 and listed five 'facts' which 'proved' itaudreyanne said:Isam I don't know if that's a deliberate attempt to wind me up, or just an error on your part, but I haven't once deviated from my view that UKIP will win Rochester and Strood next week.
As you know, I have a bet on with you about the General Election which is where the real action will happen.
When I disagreed, you started banging on about tub thumping kippers who don't know what they're talking about etc
But the tories were not the value bet at 3/1, so you were wrong and I was right
I thought a 'value' bet was not something that you necessarily thought would happen but one that you thought was priced better than the odds you considered correct.
So if the conservatives had been backed into 6/4 for instance after 3/1 was tipped as the value, that would have been fair to say even if they lost.
But saying it was the value after something drifts constantly then loses is just refusing to admit you had a bad bet
I backed ukip in H&M at 5/2... They opened 10/1 came into 3/1 then drifted massively and lost (albeit closely) it would be pushing it for me to say the 5/2 was value, even though I thought it should have been 7/4
Put it this way, bookies close accounts that beat the SP. They don't if you are taking 4/1 about SP 5/1 winners because they're getting the value even though you might be in front
People who cant accept they had a bad bet then use the excuse that "it was the value" even when, as in Rochester and the Tories at 6/4 as Mike advised or 3/1 as Audrey and Richard Nabavi did, it is not the case
Even if the Tories win, they have had bad bets, as I did with UKIP in Heywood*
*which obv didn't win
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Which words did I put in your mouth? You quoted James Elgar as an example of Islamaphobia, and I answered your questions as to which part I agreed with. Its fair enough for me to think you disapprove of his words, else why would we be having this conversation?logical_song said:
Again, putting words into my mouth - not good.isam said:
Yes, I don't think it is deplorable for a young man to feel the way he does. Remember these tweets were before the Rotherham scandal came to light. It's not wrong to say that most of the perpetrators there were Asian, we saw last week an army veteran mugged for his medals by Asians, and I think all if the 7/7 bombers were Asian as were the people behind the foiled attempts a fortnight laterlogical_song said:
Here they are:isam said:
?logical_song said:
Could you tell me which bits you agree with?
The Boston bombers were Muslims, and he is reacting to Muslims cheering them
These things happened, they're not fictitious rumours... But you seem more upset about a teenager being angered by them
I don't think all Asians or Muslims are bad people of course not far from it. But it is somewhat discriminatory of you to disallow teenagers to be angry at what they see happening in the world. I have heard far far worse than that in the last seven days
Just for completeness do you agree that women belong in the kitchen?
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Audreyanne
''I definitely agree that no Muslim would expect Miliband to pretend to be something he isn't. However, for a comparison, when a leader goes into a mosque, gurdwara, temple or synagogue: you just expect them to show a bit of respect by covering heads / removing shoes as appropriate. In the case of eating pork in front of the cameras it's just unnecessary. He could have chosen something else for his photo op, which he also might have got his teeth into rather more successfully. ''
Its not very bright to do something you are useless at in front of camera especially when you are incapable of laughing it off 'Boris-like'.
But going into a caff is not going into a mosque or cathederal. People eat pork and bacon all over the country. Is this a surprise to moslems? Once again think its crass lumping a criticism onto Ed which is the wrong one (there are plenty of real ones to go round) and offence onto moslems which is probably not there.0 -
At what point did being British, and being Jewish or Hindu become mutually exclusive. I am sure there are a significant number of members of the (generally speaking socially conservative) Jewish and Hindu faiths, who may or may not being caucasians, but like the cut of Mr Farage's gib. We need to get over this desire to conflate race and religion, as we frequently like to conflate race and culture. Most Brits are quite relaxed about people's race, they mostly only get upset when people start trying to change the culture around them, sometimes radically.FalseFlag said:
Personally I would consider those figures trivial. UKIP is clearly a majoritarian pro British political movement so I would not expect support from others, instead the strong opposition I hear towards UKIP from same friends is the standard response.
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Paul is a sandwich short of a picnic, his mince on Scotland is legendary.Neil said:
Yes. The extraordinary collapse in the Labour vote in Scotland in the 2010 GE. You couldnt make this rubbish up. The Catholic adoption agencies werent destroyed. They mostly decided that issues of private sexuality trumped child welfare.Paul_Mid_Beds said:
One that led to the Scottish Bishops abandoning Labour for the SNP and taking the Catholic vote there with them, hence the extraordinary collapse in the Labour vote in Scotland.Ninoinoz said:
He was education minister in 2006 when Labour tried to bring in restrictions on entry to new Faith Schools when Catholics were pouring into the country from Poland.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Oz, why is Johnson unacceptable to Catholics?
Must say I've not heard that before.
He was quickly moved to Health and Brown invited the Holy Father to a State Visit to make amends.
It all happened so quickly that few outside the Catholic community noticed the biggest breakdown between the Catholic bishops and the State for over 100 years.
We haven't forgotten the destruction of the catholic adoption agencies either.0 -
Some people think only white people can be racist.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. F, reminds me this nonsense:
https://twitter.com/femfreq/status/533445611543363585
"There’s no such thing as sexism against men. That's because sexism is prejudice + power. Men are the dominant gender with power in society."
If we get rid of white men ergo there will be no more racism or sexism.
Somehow I doubt it.0 -
A very handy excuse, which is similar to the argument that only White people can be racist.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. F, reminds me this nonsense:
https://twitter.com/femfreq/status/533445611543363585
"There’s no such thing as sexism against men. That's because sexism is prejudice + power. Men are the dominant gender with power in society."
In fact, it's pretty much a law of nature that groups that have faced oppression will happily become oppressors.0 -
Avery when are you giving up the cross dressingaudreyanne said:
Of course they do Isam, but then you're the person who called TSE 'useless' on punting tips.isam said:
Those quotes prove him right and you wrongaudreyanne said:Socrates said:
The 'serious commentators' also believed that appeasing Adolf Hitler was the right move,anotherDave said:
Isn't one of Nate Silver's insights that the opinions of 'serious commentators' are not useful for predicting the result of an election.audreyanne said:On the contrary 'Bob.' Every serious commentator knows it will. It's the reality of British politics. A significant number of people will come home to roost for the three main parties. It's tribal, cultural, historic. For UKIP to breakthrough properly would take a long time or something seismic like a particular type of terrorist attack.
UKIP will be lucky to poll 15%, which in itself would be a massive achievement. If they get more than 6 MPs I will run naked around the Houses of Parliament.
???!Socrates said:
"if an online discussion (regardless of topic or scope) goes on long enough, sooner or later someone will compare someone or something to Hitler or Nazism"audreyanne said:
Uh-oh, Socrates invokes Godwin's law. TIme to leave.Socrates said:
The 'serious commentators' also believed that appeasing Adolf Hitler was the right moveanotherDave said:
Isn't one of Nate Silver's insights that the opinions of 'serious commentators' are not useful for predicting the result of an election.audreyanne said:On the contrary 'Bob.' Every serious commentator knows it will. It's the reality of British politics. A significant number of people will come home to roost for the three main parties. It's tribal, cultural, historic. For UKIP to breakthrough properly would take a long time or something seismic like a particular type of terrorist attack.
UKIP will be lucky to poll 15%, which in itself would be a massive achievement. If they get more than 6 MPs I will run naked around the Houses of Parliament.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law
I didn't do that, did I?
I've tended to arrive at the opinion that whatever you post, the opposite is likely to be true. It would be lovely to find over the next six months that I'll be proved wrong. You have much to offer, but perhaps need to think a little more, and post a little less.0 -
Economically the news is very mixed for the EU. German economy has slowed and is just avoiding a triple dip recession. The Chinese slowdown has not helped although I read that Jaguar Land Rover is profiting from China. Product is everything.Charles said:
Do you think the UK would stop participating in the joint European space missions (on a multi-lateral basis) if they were to leave the EU?audreyanne said:By the way, not that I think anyone apart from kipper-bangers give a fig about the EU but it has been a good week for Europe with the economic data and the Rosetta mission.
The ESA and the EU are separate organisations. As their website says the ESA is an intergovernmental organisation where the EU is supranational. Interesting dichotomy. ''The two institutions have indeed different ranges of competences, different Member States and are governed by different rules and procedures. '' 20% of funds come from the EU.
The kipperati probably hate anything beginning with E.0 -
Another dumpling, why then did they always vote Labour up until the last few years. Hard to believe the ignorance on here, is there no education in England.FalseFlag said:
Most Catholics have been Irish or other immigrants so Labour's anti English policies have always held a strong appeal. See the SNP rhetoric to win over Glasgow.Sean_F said:Attitudinally, there's likely a big difference between Catholics who attend Church (probably still a fairly large minority of the electorate in parts of Scotland) and those who don't. I should think very few, even of the former, would vote as their priests directed, but they are responsive to a party that takes the trouble to canvass them.
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I wonder how the people who believe the lack of integration between Muslims and non Muslims in the UK is to do with racism on the part of the non muslims, think India became, India, Pakistan and Bangladesh, or why Pakistan play their home cricket matches in the UAE?Indigo said:
At what point did being British, and being Jewish or Hindu become mutually exclusive. I am sure there are a significant number of members of the (generally speaking socially conservative) Jewish and Hindu faiths, who may or may not being caucasians, but like the cut of Mr Farage's gib. We need to get over this desire to conflate race and religion, as we frequently like to conflate race and culture. Most Brits are quite relaxed about people's race, they mostly only get upset when people start trying to change the culture around them, sometimes radically.FalseFlag said:
Personally I would consider those figures trivial. UKIP is clearly a majoritarian pro British political movement so I would not expect support from others, instead the strong opposition I hear towards UKIP from same friends is the standard response.0 -
"These things happened, they're not fictitious rumours... But you seem more upset about a teenager being angered by them"isam said:
Which words did I put in your mouth? You quoted James Elgar as an example of Islamaphobia, and I answered your questions as to which part I agreed with. Its fair enough for me to think you disapprove of his words, else why would we be having this conversation?logical_song said:
Again, putting words into my mouth - not good.isam said:
Yes, I don't think it is deplorable for a young man to feel the way he does. Remember these tweets were before the Rotherham scandal came to light. It's not wrong to say that most of the perpetrators there were Asian, we saw last week an army veteran mugged for his medals by Asians, and I think all if the 7/7 bombers were Asian as were the people behind the foiled attempts a fortnight laterlogical_song said:
Here they are:isam said:
?logical_song said:
Could you tell me which bits you agree with?
I don't think all Asians or Muslims are bad people of course not far from it. But it is somewhat discriminatory of you to disallow teenagers to be angry at what they see happening in the world. I have heard far far worse than that in the last seven days
Just for completeness do you agree that women belong in the kitchen?
Of course I'm not more upset by a UKIPer rant than real bad things happening, why would you say that I am? Is that not putting words into my mouth.
Just for completeness do you agree that women belong in the kitchen?
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Do you ever lose an argument?isam said:
No, "yes it is", wouldn't have done. Because almost everyone who has a losing bet thinks it had more chance than the implied odds offered, that's why they have the bet.logical_song said:
"Yes it is" would have done. Thanks.isam said:
Yes it is... But that is just subjective really... It is rare for someone to make a case for something being value, and then it drift for six weeks and lose and still say "I got the value", because the market obviously disagreedlogical_song said:
I'm sure you'll correct me if I'm wrong, maybe even if I'm right ;-).isam said:
Yes but you said the value bet was the tories at 3/1 and listed five 'facts' which 'proved' itaudreyanne said:Isam I don't know if that's a deliberate attempt to wind me up, or just an error on your part, but I haven't once deviated from my view that UKIP will win Rochester and Strood next week.
As you know, I have a bet on with you about the General Election which is where the real action will happen.
When I disagreed, you started banging on about tub thumping kippers who don't know what they're talking about etc
But the tories were not the value bet at 3/1, so you were wrong and I was right
I thought a 'value' bet was not something that you necessarily thought would happen but one that you thought was priced better than the odds you considered correct.
So if the conservatives had been backed into 6/4 for instance after 3/1 was tipped as the value, that would have been fair to say even if they lost.
But saying it was the value after something drifts constantly then loses is just refusing to admit you had a bad bet
I backed ukip in H&M at 5/2... They opened 10/1 came into 3/1 then drifted massively and lost (albeit closely) it would be pushing it for me to say the 5/2 was value, even though I thought it should have been 7/4
Put it this way, bookies close accounts that beat the SP. They don't if you are taking 4/1 about SP 5/1 winners because they're getting the value even though you might be in front
People who cant accept they had a bad bet then use the excuse that "it was the value" even when, as in Rochester and the Tories at 6/4 as Mike advised or 3/1 as Audrey and Richard Nabavi did, it is not the case
Even if the Tories win, they have had bad bets, as I did with UKIP in Heywood*
*which obv didn't win0 -
Because I can understand why that teenage kid felt the way he did, and you are quoting it as an example of "islamaphobia".. surely the implication is you think his comments are wrong, and to be criticised? Else why would we be having this conversation?logical_song said:
"These things happened, they're not fictitious rumours... But you seem more upset about a teenager being angered by them"isam said:
Which words did I put in your mouth? You quoted James Elgar as an example of Islamaphobia, and I answered your questions as to which part I agreed with. Its fair enough for me to think you disapprove of his words, else why would we be having this conversation?logical_song said:
Again, putting words into my mouth - not good.isam said:
Yes, I don't think it is deplorable for a young man to feel the way he does. Remember these tweets were before the Rotherham scandal came to light. It's not wrong to say that most of the perpetrators there were Asian, we saw last week an army veteran mugged for his medals by Asians, and I think all if the 7/7 bombers were Asian as were the people behind the foiled attempts a fortnight laterlogical_song said:
Here they are:isam said:
?logical_song said:
Could you tell me which bits you agree with?
I don't think all Asians or Muslims are bad people of course not far from it. But it is somewhat discriminatory of you to disallow teenagers to be angry at what they see happening in the world. I have heard far far worse than that in the last seven days
Just for completeness do you agree that women belong in the kitchen?
Of course I'm not more upset by a UKIPer rant than real bad things happening, why would you say that I am? Is that not putting words into my mouth.
Just for completeness do you agree that women belong in the kitchen?
I don't get why you are talking about women and kitchens? What are you going on about?0 -
Audreyanne 're chalaghan... 'The next day's edition of The Sun featured the famous headline "Crisis? What crisis?" '
A silly statement from Callaghan, but the headline also neatly encapsulates a press habit to put into headline quotes words that the speaker never said.0 -
Yes I know Catholics have historically been pro Union. Perhaps you managed to alienate others when you won them over this time, Anglo Saxon Edinburgh decisively rejected independence as did the borders.malcolmg said:
Another dumpling, why then did they always vote Labour up until the last few years. Hard to believe the ignorance on here, is there no education in England.FalseFlag said:
Most Catholics have been Irish or other immigrants so Labour's anti English policies have always held a strong appeal. See the SNP rhetoric to win over Glasgow.Sean_F said:Attitudinally, there's likely a big difference between Catholics who attend Church (probably still a fairly large minority of the electorate in parts of Scotland) and those who don't. I should think very few, even of the former, would vote as their priests directed, but they are responsive to a party that takes the trouble to canvass them.
Still daft of Scotland to have imported Ulsters sectarian problems through immigration.0 -
Sometimeslogical_song said:
Do you ever lose an argument?isam said:
No, "yes it is", wouldn't have done. Because almost everyone who has a losing bet thinks it had more chance than the implied odds offered, that's why they have the bet.logical_song said:
"Yes it is" would have done. Thanks.isam said:
Yes it is... But that is just subjective really... It is rare for someone to make a case for something being value, and then it drift for six weeks and lose and still say "I got the value", because the market obviously disagreedlogical_song said:
I'm sure you'll correct me if I'm wrong, maybe even if I'm right ;-).isam said:
Yes but you said the value bet was the tories at 3/1 and listed five 'facts' which 'proved' itaudreyanne said:Isam I don't know if that's a deliberate attempt to wind me up, or just an error on your part, but I haven't once deviated from my view that UKIP will win Rochester and Strood next week.
As you know, I have a bet on with you about the General Election which is where the real action will happen.
When I disagreed, you started banging on about tub thumping kippers who don't know what they're talking about etc
But the tories were not the value bet at 3/1, so you were wrong and I was right
I thought a 'value' bet was not something that you necessarily thought would happen but one that you thought was priced better than the odds you considered correct.
So if the conservatives had been backed into 6/4 for instance after 3/1 was tipped as the value, that would have been fair to say even if they lost.
But saying it was the value after something drifts constantly then loses is just refusing to admit you had a bad bet
I backed ukip in H&M at 5/2... They opened 10/1 came into 3/1 then drifted massively and lost (albeit closely) it would be pushing it for me to say the 5/2 was value, even though I thought it should have been 7/4
Put it this way, bookies close accounts that beat the SP. They don't if you are taking 4/1 about SP 5/1 winners because they're getting the value even though you might be in front
People who cant accept they had a bad bet then use the excuse that "it was the value" even when, as in Rochester and the Tories at 6/4 as Mike advised or 3/1 as Audrey and Richard Nabavi did, it is not the case
Even if the Tories win, they have had bad bets, as I did with UKIP in Heywood*
*which obv didn't win0 -
I think that there is a lot of validity in this view. We cannot police peoples individual beliefs and morality, and indeed should not do so. What we should not permit is for people to abuse positions of power to put their sexist (or other bigoted) views into practice.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. F, reminds me this nonsense:
https://twitter.com/femfreq/status/533445611543363585
"There’s no such thing as sexism against men. That's because sexism is prejudice + power. Men are the dominant gender with power in society."
As long as most of society is dominated by one gender (or other group) then sexism/racism is an issue.
Once that patriarchal structure has broken down into a matriarchal replacement, it may be possible to have female sexism as a political issue, but at present that is not on the horizon (excepting some areas around family courts possibly).0 -
Nino does not strike me as a regular reader of the Guardiablet.CD13 said:Ninoinoz,
Are you a regular reader of the 'Tablet'? It's on the liberal side of the debate, but it often shows surveys of mass-goers and priests. I didn't mention abortion because that seems to be a different matter to sexuality for the mass-goers.
Incidentally, I've asked the Tablet to review the novel wot I wrote (An ever rolling stream, published as an e-book by Wild Wolf Publishing) as it addresses racism, and some religious issues, but I suspect I'll get a polite refusal. If you don't ask, you don't get.
The school issue is interesting. We have regular baptisms after mass and a fair few of the families look unfamiliar with the whole concept of church. They come to have their children baptised out of family loyalties (this is Merseyside) and also to get the best local school for the kids.
Tabula Delena Est!
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For once, I agree with you.malcolmg said:
Another dumpling, why then did they always vote Labour up until the last few years. Hard to believe the ignorance on here, is there no education in England.FalseFlag said:
Most Catholics have been Irish or other immigrants so Labour's anti English policies have always held a strong appeal. See the SNP rhetoric to win over Glasgow.Sean_F said:Attitudinally, there's likely a big difference between Catholics who attend Church (probably still a fairly large minority of the electorate in parts of Scotland) and those who don't. I should think very few, even of the former, would vote as their priests directed, but they are responsive to a party that takes the trouble to canvass them.
Catholics are from Irish stock, ergo therefore they vote for ..... a Scottish Nationalist party?
As an aside, a lot of UKIP's support is put down to being the Not London party. I think that feeling must be accentuated in Scotland, but with the SNP as beneficiaries.
Incidentally, I think Ed is Crap's recent travails started when he was roundly booed when he went to Scotland, Labour's "heartland".0 -
Doesn't follow that it should be brought back! Perhaps there should have been a Greek Turkish population exchange.Neil said:
Where on earth do you think those sectarian problems originated from in the first place?FalseFlag said:
Still daft of Scotland to have imported Ulsters sectarian problems through immigration.0 -
foxinsoxuk said:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/most-uk-catholics-support-abortion-and-use-of-contraception-2083291.html
Most UK Catholics support abortion and contraception. Tis you that is ignorant.
Catholic Europe has some of the lowest fertility rates in the world, indicating that actions speak louder than rhetoric.
I am personally glad that so many Catholics treat their Priests views so casually, and I hope that they treat being told how to vote with equal contempt.
I think you will find Western Europe has the lowest fertility rates. Its not been Catholic europe for some decades now.
Unfortunately for the secular liberals currently holding sway their prized mass immigration is ensuring that millions of catholics, other Christians and Muslims who dont subscribe to liberal nostrums are coming here and having lots of Children.
Roll on fifty years and its going to be a very different Britain, one that Mary Whitehouse would feel far more at home in than Hattie Harman.
Me? My wife is African and we have >3
Cultures that practice contraception and abortion will inevitably be overrun by cultures that don't.0 -
they had to go somewhere after being starved/shoved out of Ireland by their English mastersFalseFlag said:
Yes I know Catholics have historically been pro Union. Perhaps you managed to alienate others when you won them over this time, Anglo Saxon Edinburgh decisively rejected independence as did the borders.malcolmg said:
Another dumpling, why then did they always vote Labour up until the last few years. Hard to believe the ignorance on here, is there no education in England.FalseFlag said:
Most Catholics have been Irish or other immigrants so Labour's anti English policies have always held a strong appeal. See the SNP rhetoric to win over Glasgow.Sean_F said:Attitudinally, there's likely a big difference between Catholics who attend Church (probably still a fairly large minority of the electorate in parts of Scotland) and those who don't. I should think very few, even of the former, would vote as their priests directed, but they are responsive to a party that takes the trouble to canvass them.
Still daft of Scotland to have imported Ulsters sectarian problems through immigration.
-1 -
Individuals have power. And they either use that power well or badly. That's as true of women as it is of men, and of black people as it is of White people.foxinsoxuk said:
I think that there is a lot of validity in this view. We cannot police peoples individual beliefs and morality, and indeed should not do so. What we should not permit is for people to abuse positions of power to put their sexist (or other bigoted) views into practice.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. F, reminds me this nonsense:
https://twitter.com/femfreq/status/533445611543363585
"There’s no such thing as sexism against men. That's because sexism is prejudice + power. Men are the dominant gender with power in society."
As long as most of society is dominated by one gender (or other group) then sexism/racism is an issue.
Once that patriarchal structure has broken down into a matriarchal replacement, it may be possible to have female sexism as a political issue, but at present that is not on the horizon (excepting some areas around family courts possibly).
Trying to claim that only men, or White people, are capable of discriminatory or abusive behaviour is both untrue, and gives a get out of jail free card to members of the group that claims to be oppressed.
0 -
surbiton said:
I am now an Ed person but were he to go, Harriet is a very capable replacement, more than temporary. She is a known entity. All the Harperson jokes will bring in many feminists from the Greens.Moses_ said:Frying pan to fire candidate.
This artcle sums her up pretty well and a rather damning indictment of her time as an MP here and the other "feminists" . The feminist T shirt was just the latest in a long line of such viewpoints but at least we know where to find her though?
http://conservativewoman.co.uk/kathy-gyngell-meet-harriet-co-name-guilty-women-destroying-labours-working-class-base/
Very capable replacement? Not sure whether to laugh or be scared at that statement.
If she was "so capable" then why did she not stand in the leadership. There were two reasons the main one was even her own party would not have elected her. The second of course was to do so meant she would have to have resigned the deputy leadership. When she lost she would have disappeared into the ether and of course Hettie likes to be front and centre so a lot of self interest was in play as always.
0 -
Mr. Foxinsox, I think you're utterly wrong. The idea men cannot be the victims of sexism, nor women perpetrators thereof, is irrational and indefensible.
Men engaged in custody battles would, I'm sure, contest the notion there cannot possibly be sexism against men most vigorously.0 -
Your are of course correct. I am a Catholic Herald man.Paul_Mid_Beds said:
Nino does not strike me as a regular reader of the Guardiablet.CD13 said:Ninoinoz,
Are you a regular reader of the 'Tablet'? It's on the liberal side of the debate, but it often shows surveys of mass-goers and priests. I didn't mention abortion because that seems to be a different matter to sexuality for the mass-goers.
Incidentally, I've asked the Tablet to review the novel wot I wrote (An ever rolling stream, published as an e-book by Wild Wolf Publishing) as it addresses racism, and some religious issues, but I suspect I'll get a polite refusal. If you don't ask, you don't get.
The school issue is interesting. We have regular baptisms after mass and a fair few of the families look unfamiliar with the whole concept of church. They come to have their children baptised out of family loyalties (this is Merseyside) and also to get the best local school for the kids.
Tabula Delena Est!
My parish doesn't even bother to stock The Tablet.0 -
Excellent, you have a sound parish priest.Ninoinoz said:
Your are of course correct. I am a Catholic Herald man.Paul_Mid_Beds said:
Nino does not strike me as a regular reader of the Guardiablet.CD13 said:Ninoinoz,
Are you a regular reader of the 'Tablet'? It's on the liberal side of the debate, but it often shows surveys of mass-goers and priests. I didn't mention abortion because that seems to be a different matter to sexuality for the mass-goers.
Incidentally, I've asked the Tablet to review the novel wot I wrote (An ever rolling stream, published as an e-book by Wild Wolf Publishing) as it addresses racism, and some religious issues, but I suspect I'll get a polite refusal. If you don't ask, you don't get.
The school issue is interesting. We have regular baptisms after mass and a fair few of the families look unfamiliar with the whole concept of church. They come to have their children baptised out of family loyalties (this is Merseyside) and also to get the best local school for the kids.
Tabula Delena Est!
My parish doesn't even bother to stock The Tablet.0 -
Poland has one of the lowest fertility rates in Europe at 1.33. Only Ireland and France are above 2, and those are both much lower than previous (and of course much of French Fertility is in African/Maghrebi groups)Paul_Mid_Beds said:foxinsoxuk said:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/most-uk-catholics-support-abortion-and-use-of-contraception-2083291.html
Most UK Catholics support abortion and contraception. Tis you that is ignorant.
Catholic Europe has some of the lowest fertility rates in the world, indicating that actions speak louder than rhetoric.
I am personally glad that so many Catholics treat their Priests views so casually, and I hope that they treat being told how to vote with equal contempt.
I think you will find Western Europe has the lowest fertility rates. Its not been Catholic europe for some decades now.
Unfortunately for the secular liberals currently holding sway their prized mass immigration is ensuring that millions of catholics, other Christians and Muslims who dont subscribe to liberal nostrums are coming here and having lots of Children.
Roll on fifty years and its going to be a very different Britain, one that Mary Whitehouse would feel far more at home in than Hattie Harman.
Me? My wife is African and we have >3
Cultures that practice contraception and abortion will inevitably be overrun by cultures that don't.
http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/statistics_explained/mobile/index.php#Page?title=Fertility statistics&lg=en
My conclusion stands: Catholics largely ignore their official church on matters of sex.0 -
I can tell you haven't set foot in a corporate HR department recently! Aside from invariably being heavy tilted toward female staff, and vastly more often run by a female manager, you can often notice pin-up pictures of muscular young men in various states of partial undress exhibited on the walls of the various cubicles... but woe betide any man that should have the temerity to even glance at Page 3, never mind put up a swimsuit picture in his cubicle!foxinsoxuk said:
I think that there is a lot of validity in this view. We cannot police peoples individual beliefs and morality, and indeed should not do so. What we should not permit is for people to abuse positions of power to put their sexist (or other bigoted) views into practice.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. F, reminds me this nonsense:
https://twitter.com/femfreq/status/533445611543363585
"There’s no such thing as sexism against men. That's because sexism is prejudice + power. Men are the dominant gender with power in society."
As long as most of society is dominated by one gender (or other group) then sexism/racism is an issue.
Once that patriarchal structure has broken down into a matriarchal replacement, it may be possible to have female sexism as a political issue, but at present that is not on the horizon (excepting some areas around family courts possibly).0 -
''Cultures that practice contraception and abortion will inevitably be overrun by cultures that don't.''
Utter ignorant rubbish.0 -
" They " shouldn't that be " we " in your case.malcolmg said:
they had to go somewhere after being starved/shoved out of Ireland by their English mastersFalseFlag said:
Yes I know Catholics have historically been pro Union. Perhaps you managed to alienate others when you won them over this time, Anglo Saxon Edinburgh decisively rejected independence as did the borders.malcolmg said:
Another dumpling, why then did they always vote Labour up until the last few years. Hard to believe the ignorance on here, is there no education in England.FalseFlag said:
Most Catholics have been Irish or other immigrants so Labour's anti English policies have always held a strong appeal. See the SNP rhetoric to win over Glasgow.Sean_F said:Attitudinally, there's likely a big difference between Catholics who attend Church (probably still a fairly large minority of the electorate in parts of Scotland) and those who don't. I should think very few, even of the former, would vote as their priests directed, but they are responsive to a party that takes the trouble to canvass them.
Still daft of Scotland to have imported Ulsters sectarian problems through immigration.0 -
Probably because most of their people having children are in the UK!foxinsoxuk said:
Poland has one of the lowest fertility rates in Europe at 1.33. Only Ireland and France are above 2, and those are both much lower than previous (and of course much of French Fertility is in African/Maghrebi groups)Paul_Mid_Beds said:foxinsoxuk said:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/most-uk-catholics-support-abortion-and-use-of-contraception-2083291.html
Most UK Catholics support abortion and contraception. Tis you that is ignorant.
Catholic Europe has some of the lowest fertility rates in the world, indicating that actions speak louder than rhetoric.
I am personally glad that so many Catholics treat their Priests views so casually, and I hope that they treat being told how to vote with equal contempt.
I think you will find Western Europe has the lowest fertility rates. Its not been Catholic europe for some decades now.
Unfortunately for the secular liberals currently holding sway their prized mass immigration is ensuring that millions of catholics, other Christians and Muslims who dont subscribe to liberal nostrums are coming here and having lots of Children.
Roll on fifty years and its going to be a very different Britain, one that Mary Whitehouse would feel far more at home in than Hattie Harman.
Me? My wife is African and we have >3
Cultures that practice contraception and abortion will inevitably be overrun by cultures that don't.
http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/statistics_explained/mobile/index.php#Page?title=Fertility statistics&lg=en
My conclusion stands: Catholics largely ignore their official church on matters of sex.0 -
Nah, Avery liked his yellow boxes too much to give them up.malcolmg said:
Avery when are you giving up the cross dressingaudreyanne said:
Of course they do Isam, but then you're the person who called TSE 'useless' on punting tips.isam said:
Those quotes prove him right and you wrongaudreyanne said:Socrates said:
The 'serious commentators' also believed that appeasing Adolf Hitler was the right move,anotherDave said:
Isn't one of Nate Silver's insights that the opinions of 'serious commentators' are not useful for predicting the result of an election.audreyanne said:On the contrary 'Bob.' Every serious commentator knows it will. It's the reality of British politics. A significant number of people will come home to roost for the three main parties. It's tribal, cultural, historic. For UKIP to breakthrough properly would take a long time or something seismic like a particular type of terrorist attack.
UKIP will be lucky to poll 15%, which in itself would be a massive achievement. If they get more than 6 MPs I will run naked around the Houses of Parliament.
???!Socrates said:
"if an online discussion (regardless of topic or scope) goes on long enough, sooner or later someone will compare someone or something to Hitler or Nazism"audreyanne said:
Uh-oh, Socrates invokes Godwin's law. TIme to leave.Socrates said:
The 'serious commentators' also believed that appeasing Adolf Hitler was the right moveanotherDave said:
Isn't one of Nate Silver's insights that the opinions of 'serious commentators' are not useful for predicting the result of an election.audreyanne said:On the contrary 'Bob.' Every serious commentator knows it will. It's the reality of British politics. A significant number of people will come home to roost for the three main parties. It's tribal, cultural, historic. For UKIP to breakthrough properly would take a long time or something seismic like a particular type of terrorist attack.
UKIP will be lucky to poll 15%, which in itself would be a massive achievement. If they get more than 6 MPs I will run naked around the Houses of Parliament.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law
I didn't do that, did I?
I've tended to arrive at the opinion that whatever you post, the opposite is likely to be true. It would be lovely to find over the next six months that I'll be proved wrong. You have much to offer, but perhaps need to think a little more, and post a little less.0 -
It is also utterly patronising & insulting to women and black peopleSean_F said:
Individuals have power. And they either use that power well or badly. That's as true of women as it is of men, and of black people as it is of White people.foxinsoxuk said:
I think that there is a lot of validity in this view. We cannot police peoples individual beliefs and morality, and indeed should not do so. What we should not permit is for people to abuse positions of power to put their sexist (or other bigoted) views into practice.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. F, reminds me this nonsense:
https://twitter.com/femfreq/status/533445611543363585
"There’s no such thing as sexism against men. That's because sexism is prejudice + power. Men are the dominant gender with power in society."
As long as most of society is dominated by one gender (or other group) then sexism/racism is an issue.
Once that patriarchal structure has broken down into a matriarchal replacement, it may be possible to have female sexism as a political issue, but at present that is not on the horizon (excepting some areas around family courts possibly).
Trying to claim that only men, or White people, are capable of discriminatory or abusive behaviour is both untrue, and gives a get out of jail free card to members of the group that claims to be oppressed.
0 -
I would agree, however the new matriarchal society has only been brought about by huge and expensive social engineering which has to be maintained at high cost or it will it revert back to a patriarchal society rapidly.foxinsoxuk said:
I think that there is a lot of validity in this view. We cannot police peoples individual beliefs and morality, and indeed should not do so. What we should not permit is for people to abuse positions of power to put their sexist (or other bigoted) views into practice.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. F, reminds me this nonsense:
https://twitter.com/femfreq/status/533445611543363585
"There’s no such thing as sexism against men. That's because sexism is prejudice + power. Men are the dominant gender with power in society."
As long as most of society is dominated by one gender (or other group) then sexism/racism is an issue.
Once that patriarchal structure has broken down into a matriarchal replacement, it may be possible to have female sexism as a political issue, but at present that is not on the horizon (excepting some areas around family courts possibly).
This is Hattie and Co's biggest problem their nirvana is massively expensive and interventionalist, the moneys run out and everyone is fed up with big government.0 -
Comments about PIE are now off limits.
We've reviewed some of the comments this moment, and they could get Mike into trouble, so move on0 -
BBC - Miliband attacks Sports Direct over zero-hours contracts.
Oh dear!
Ed’s found a nasty capitalist business to rally the troops against – hope this doesn’t go the same way for SD as it did for the journalists covering Ed’s re-launch this week; #kristallnacht
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30066568
0 -
village idiot arrives , given I was born in Scotland of Scottish parents , you are barking as ever. Go kiss your doup.MonikerDiCanio said:
" They " shouldn't that be " we " in your case.malcolmg said:
they had to go somewhere after being starved/shoved out of Ireland by their English mastersFalseFlag said:
Yes I know Catholics have historically been pro Union. Perhaps you managed to alienate others when you won them over this time, Anglo Saxon Edinburgh decisively rejected independence as did the borders.malcolmg said:
Another dumpling, why then did they always vote Labour up until the last few years. Hard to believe the ignorance on here, is there no education in England.FalseFlag said:
Most Catholics have been Irish or other immigrants so Labour's anti English policies have always held a strong appeal. See the SNP rhetoric to win over Glasgow.Sean_F said:Attitudinally, there's likely a big difference between Catholics who attend Church (probably still a fairly large minority of the electorate in parts of Scotland) and those who don't. I should think very few, even of the former, would vote as their priests directed, but they are responsive to a party that takes the trouble to canvass them.
Still daft of Scotland to have imported Ulsters sectarian problems through immigration.0 -
I did specifically exclude family courts.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Foxinsox, I think you're utterly wrong. The idea men cannot be the victims of sexism, nor women perpetrators thereof, is irrational and indefensible.
Men engaged in custody battles would, I'm sure, contest the notion there cannot possibly be sexism against men most vigorously.
Things have moved on a great deal, but the need for overturning traditionally patriarchal and often misogynistic power structures continues.
In particular in certain ethnic communities where domestic violence, FGM, forced marriage, sexual grooming and "honour" killings are rife.
Eastern and Southern European migrants are much more easily assimilated for this very reason.0 -
Scotland's sectarian problem nowadays is overblown. Catholics are able to get jobs in top positions and if anything are over represented. Last non Catholic Glasgow Lord Provost anyone ? In e private sector nobody even notices.
There is a nice fake charity industry reliant on keeping the profile high - lots of lovely government money to scoop up - hence the profile is kept high.0 -
Charles said:
Did I mention before that my Mum once punched Hattie?Paul_Mid_Beds said:This thread is hysterical. I can only think of one leader who would be far worse for Labour than Ed - Hattie. Especially with the VIP child abuse scandal growing ever larger (Civil Liberties Pie anyone?)
Talk about Lynton Crosby Heaven.
Luhnduhn, innit. Not least those feckin Galway-greens "'o dem t'ink dat dem iz hooded in da' Bermondsey"....Neil said:
Where on earth do you think those sectarian problems originated from in the first place?FalseFlag said:
Still daft of Scotland to have imported Ulsters sectarian problems through immigration.
EtA: Forgot 'BogTrotter', faux Galwegian and ass-hat!
0 -
Nope. We love Europe and see lots of areas where we wish we were more like them (our health services being a good example). The EU is not Europe and never has been.Flightpath said:
Economically the news is very mixed for the EU. German economy has slowed and is just avoiding a triple dip recession. The Chinese slowdown has not helped although I read that Jaguar Land Rover is profiting from China. Product is everything.Charles said:
Do you think the UK would stop participating in the joint European space missions (on a multi-lateral basis) if they were to leave the EU?audreyanne said:By the way, not that I think anyone apart from kipper-bangers give a fig about the EU but it has been a good week for Europe with the economic data and the Rosetta mission.
The ESA and the EU are separate organisations. As their website says the ESA is an intergovernmental organisation where the EU is supranational. Interesting dichotomy. ''The two institutions have indeed different ranges of competences, different Member States and are governed by different rules and procedures. '' 20% of funds come from the EU.
The kipperati probably hate anything beginning with E.
The 'Little Englander' mentality of the Eurofanatics like yourself who seem to believe we need the EU to protect us from that nasty big world out there is the real backward attitude.
0 -
correct , good for the likes of Murphy and his like to get exposure but outside a small amount of nutters on each side in Glasgow/central belt it is almost gone.TGOHF said:Scotland's sectarian problem nowadays is overblown. Catholics are able to get jobs in top positions and if anything are over represented. Last non Catholic Glasgow Lord Provost anyone ? In e private sector nobody even notices.
There is a nice fake charity industry reliant on keeping the profile high - lots of lovely government money to scoop up - hence the profile is kept high.0 -
Even Poles in UK have lower fertility (when adjusted for age). Somalis in the UK have a fertility rate over 5.Paul_Mid_Beds said:
Probably because most of their people having children are in the UK!foxinsoxuk said:
Poland has one of the lowest fertility rates in Europe at 1.33. Only Ireland and France are above 2, and those are both much lower than previous (and of course much of French Fertility is in African/Maghrebi groups)Paul_Mid_Beds said:foxinsoxuk said:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/most-uk-catholics-support-abortion-and-use-of-contraception-2083291.html
Most UK Catholics support abortion and contraception. Tis you that is ignorant.
Catholic Europe has some of the lowest fertility rates in the world, indicating that actions speak louder than rhetoric.
I am personally glad that so many Catholics treat their Priests views so casually, and I hope that they treat being told how to vote with equal contempt.
I think you will find Western Europe has the lowest fertility rates. Its not been Catholic europe for some decades now.
Unfortunately for the secular liberals currently holding sway their prized mass immigration is ensuring that millions of catholics, other Christians and Muslims who dont subscribe to liberal nostrums are coming here and having lots of Children.
Roll on fifty years and its going to be a very different Britain, one that Mary Whitehouse would feel far more at home in than Hattie Harman.
Me? My wife is African and we have >3
Cultures that practice contraception and abortion will inevitably be overrun by cultures that don't.
http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/statistics_explained/mobile/index.php#Page?title=Fertility statistics&lg=en
My conclusion stands: Catholics largely ignore their official church on matters of sex.
So Catholics by and large routinely ignore church teachings on sexual matters. Other ethnic groups have other traditions.0 -
OT. To all PBers who are interested in good British cinema, the disturbing attitude to homosexuality in the 40's, things to do with code breaking, public school boys, stiff upper lippery, autism, maths, but most of all a dazzling acting performance by the Old Harrovian Dominic Cumberbatch put your computers away and get to the cinema. It's worthwhile.0
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OK Maths.Flightpath said:''Cultures that practice contraception and abortion will inevitably be overrun by cultures that don't.''
Utter ignorant rubbish.
You have a country with one million people from one culture and 150,000 from another (a minority of 13%)
The one million people have 1.5 children, their children have 1.5 children. You end up with 448,000 people after two generations.
The 150,000 have four children, their children have four children. You end up with 600,000. so a group which was a minority of 13% two generations previously is now the majority.
0 -
He's also proved a big hit with his multiple impersonations on American TVRoger said:OT. To all PBers who are interested in good British cinema, the disturbing attitude to homosexuality in the 40's, things to do with code breaking, public school boys, stiff upper lippery, autism, maths, but most of all a dazzling acting performance by the Old Harrovian Dominic Cumberbatch put your computers away and get to the cinema. It's worthwhile.
http://variety.com/2014/film/news/benedict-cumberbatch-celebrity-impressions-tom-hiddleston-taylor-swift-1201356450/0 -
Mr. Foxinsox, I missed that upon first reading. Sorry.
I maintain, however, the claim that sexism cannot occur against men is (as well as being sexist itself) utter nonsense.
A lot of the issues you refer to come from backward cultures, and occur now here because we've imported barbarity. The scale of migration enabled, and perhaps encouraged, enclaves to form and flourish, where such practices could be undertaken without the 'culture' being tarnished by contact with normal British life.
The cover-ups and incompetence from various agencies have only allowed the problem to grow.
Mr. Roger, Benedict*.0 -
One thing we hear very little about is what happened to autistic people in those days.Roger said:OT. To all PBers who are interested in good British cinema, the disturbing attitude to homosexuality in the 40's, things to do with code breaking, public school boys, stiff upper lippery, autism, maths, but most of all a dazzling acting performance by the Old Harrovian Dominic Cumberbatch put your computers away and get to the cinema. It's worthwhile.
The severley affected ones presumably ended up in long stay mental institutions, but what of the more marginal ones. They must have gone through hell. Imagine what, for example, national service must have been like if you were aspergers/borderline autistic.
0 -
The problem is that such surveys of fertility include all baptised catholics, not currently active members (in the case of Poland thats just about the entire population).foxinsoxuk said:
Even Poles in UK have lower fertility (when adjusted for age). Somalis in the UK have a fertility rate over 5.Paul_Mid_Beds said:
Probably because most of their people having children are in the UK!foxinsoxuk said:
Poland has one of the lowest fertility rates in Europe at 1.33. Only Ireland and France are above 2, and those are both much lower than previous (and of course much of French Fertility is in African/Maghrebi groups)Paul_Mid_Beds said:foxinsoxuk said:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/most-uk-catholics-support-abortion-and-use-of-contraception-2083291.html
Most UK Catholics support abortion and contraception. Tis you that is ignorant.
Catholic Europe has some of the lowest fertility rates in the world, indicating that actions speak louder than rhetoric.
I am personally glad that so many Catholics treat their Priests views so casually, and I hope that they treat being told how to vote with equal contempt.
I think you will find Western Europe has the lowest fertility rates. Its not been Catholic europe for some decades now.
Unfortunately for the secular liberals currently holding sway their prized mass immigration is ensuring that millions of catholics, other Christians and Muslims who dont subscribe to liberal nostrums are coming here and having lots of Children.
Roll on fifty years and its going to be a very different Britain, one that Mary Whitehouse would feel far more at home in than Hattie Harman.
Me? My wife is African and we have >3
Cultures that practice contraception and abortion will inevitably be overrun by cultures that don't.
http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/statistics_explained/mobile/index.php#Page?title=Fertility statistics&lg=en
My conclusion stands: Catholics largely ignore their official church on matters of sex.
So Catholics by and large routinely ignore church teachings on sexual matters. Other ethnic groups have other traditions.
You could equally well produce a survey showing that the majority of Conservatives vote Labour if you include everyone who had ever been a member at some point in their life, including being counted as part of family membership if their parents were members when they were under 18.
That said, people have always been pretty lukewarm against the Churches teaching on sexual matters, at least until they get older (and less libidinous)....Even the apostles were ignored (the context of some of St Pauls more "direct" writings on the matter).
0 -
Richard_Tyndall said:
Who says I am a Eurofanatic. I'm not. Certainly not a little englander - that is of course you.Flightpath said:
Nope. We love Europe and see lots of areas where we wish we were more like them (our health services being a good example). The EU is not Europe and never has been.Charles said:
...audreyanne said:By the way, not that I think anyone apart from kipper-bangers give a fig about the EU but it has been a good week for Europe with the economic data and the Rosetta mission.
Economically the news is very mixed for the EU. German economy has slowed and is just avoiding a triple dip recession. The Chinese slowdown has not helped although I read that Jaguar Land Rover is profiting from China. Product is everything.
The ESA and the EU are separate organisations. As their website says the ESA is an intergovernmental organisation where the EU is supranational. Interesting dichotomy. ''The two institutions have indeed different ranges of competences, different Member States and are governed by different rules and procedures. '' 20% of funds come from the EU.
The kipperati probably hate anything beginning with E.
The 'Little Englander' mentality of the Eurofanatics like yourself who seem to believe we need the EU to protect us from that nasty big world out there is the real backward attitude.
The fact that you can think so shows your inability to rationalise the world around you.
Leaving the EU would be a dangerous game for us to play but if it were done sensibly we should not damage our economy too much. The point is it would not change much. Hardly anything. The EU will not go away and we would still have to deal with it. But we would have no influence on it. We would be stuck with dealing with whatever it became, which ultimately is likely to be a vast continental wide monetary, economic and thus political body.
Norway is in the EEA and the single market and is part of free movement of labour. That is an accommodation we would have to come to even if out of the EU. Pretending different is fantasy. We could cope with that but there would be little difference.
But we are not in the Euro we are not part of ever closer union (most of us do not want to be) and the only way we are likely to get a good deal to live with all that is by negotiating from within. If that fails then it is indeed failure because tying to get anything better from without is not very likely.
You can wish away with your fairy tales but ultimately Farage is peddling a big lie.
In respect of health services - you are clearly in support of Farage and want an insurance system with more private involvement which would be more costly to workers and employers than now. The French NHS is many billions in debt.0 -
Carlotta.
Impressive! I was slightly undecided whether playing a one dimensional character disqualified him from having produced a bravura performance but on reflection the answer was no because he made an unbelievable person seem believable.0 -
Back to Labour bubble think again. Ed using his child like zero zero line in Coventry today as reported by al Beeb. If they aren't careful they'll become a cult.0
-
F1: Ecclestone's off his rocker (wanting three double points races rather than one this year) but at least it seems the nonsense will end in 2015:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/30066873
If we didn't have double points Hamilton would need 6th (if Rosberg won). As it stands, he needs 2nd.0 -
@PaulMidBeds
Of course there are a minority of observant Catholics who do follow the teachings, but my argument was against the argument that Alan Johnson destroyed the Catholic Scottish Labour vote.
There is good evidence that fertility rates of migrant groups converge fairly quickly with the host:
http://www.restore.ac.uk/UPTAP/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/sylvie-dubuc-presentation.pdf
In particular look at slide 10. The only groups with above 2.0 as fertility are Muslims and Jews, and fertility rates amongst Muslims has dropped markedly. We are simply not going to be outbred as you suggested.
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Prof. Camille Paglia. lesbian and feminist ...
"If civilization had been left in female hands, we would still be living in grass huts."0 -
After all women cannot do science, politics, economics or even park properly!CD13 said:
Prof. Camille Paglia. lesbian and feminist ...
"If civilization had been left in female hands, we would still be living in grass huts."
Are you channelling Godfrey Bloom?
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What really happens is that the children and their children now have access to birth control and education, so they don't sustain their parents' / grandparents' 1.5.Paul_Mid_Beds said:
OK Maths.Flightpath said:''Cultures that practice contraception and abortion will inevitably be overrun by cultures that don't.''
Utter ignorant rubbish.
You have a country with one million people from one culture and 150,000 from another (a minority of 13%)
The one million people have 1.5 children, their children have 1.5 children. You end up with 448,000 people after two generations.
The 150,000 have four children, their children have four children. You end up with 600,000. so a group which was a minority of 13% two generations previously is now the majority.0 -
Paul_Mid_Beds said:
One thing we hear very little about is what happened to autistic people in those days.Roger said:OT. To all PBers who are interested in good British cinema, the disturbing attitude to homosexuality in the 40's, things to do with code breaking, public school boys, stiff upper lippery, autism, maths, but most of all a dazzling acting performance by the Old Harrovian Dominic Cumberbatch put your computers away and get to the cinema. It's worthwhile.
The severley affected ones presumably ended up in long stay mental institutions, but what of the more marginal ones. They must have gone through hell. Imagine what, for example, national service must have been like if you were aspergers/borderline autistic.
You needed to pass a medical to do your national service. There are various sorts of autism and since, if he had it, Turing still managed to do great work and socially interact at a time of urgent stress, there is no reason not to consider him 'normal' (he was in the Home Guard) nor suppose that others would have a particular problem with national service which must have had to deal with all sorts under the sun.Paul_Mid_Beds said:
One thing we hear very little about is what happened to autistic people in those days.Roger said:OT. To all PBers who are interested in good British cinema, the disturbing attitude to homosexuality in the 40's, things to do with code breaking, public school boys, stiff upper lippery, autism, maths, but most of all a dazzling acting performance by the Old Harrovian Dominic Cumberbatch put your computers away and get to the cinema. It's worthwhile.
The severley affected ones presumably ended up in long stay mental institutions, but what of the more marginal ones. They must have gone through hell. Imagine what, for example, national service must have been like if you were aspergers/borderline autistic.
Other related syndromes, Aspergers say, lead to 'clumsy and ill-coordinated movements and odd posture' amongst other problems and you would be unlucky to pass your medical with all that.
Its fun to know we have to put away our computers to think about Alan Turing...0 -
Dustin Hoffman in Rainman?Roger said:Carlotta.
Impressive! I was slightly undecided whether playing a one dimensional character disqualified him from having produced a bravura performance but on reflection the answer was no because he made an unbelievable person seem believable.
One of the criticisms I've read of the film (a timidity of writing issue) is that Turing's sexuality doesn't actually involve sex....
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Milli Tant joins PB. Bonkers.foxinsoxuk said:
I think that there is a lot of validity in this view. We cannot police peoples individual beliefs and morality, and indeed should not do so. What we should not permit is for people to abuse positions of power to put their sexist (or other bigoted) views into practice.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. F, reminds me this nonsense:
https://twitter.com/femfreq/status/533445611543363585
"There’s no such thing as sexism against men. That's because sexism is prejudice + power. Men are the dominant gender with power in society."
As long as most of society is dominated by one gender (or other group) then sexism/racism is an issue.
Once that patriarchal structure has broken down into a matriarchal replacement, it may be possible to have female sexism as a political issue, but at present that is not on the horizon (excepting some areas around family courts possibly).0 -
I want a health system that works and is free at the point of delivery. The French system maybe a bit more expensive but its outcomes are miles better than those of the NHS by almost every important measure (such as people actually getting better)Flightpath said:
Who says I am a Eurofanatic. I'm not. Certainly not a little englander - that is of course you.
The fact that you can think so shows your inability to rationalise the world around you.
Leaving the EU would be a dangerous game for us to play but if it were done sensibly we should not damage our economy too much. The point is it would not change much. Hardly anything. The EU will not go away and we would still have to deal with it. But we would have no influence on it. We would be stuck with dealing with whatever it became, which ultimately is likely to be a vast continental wide monetary, economic and thus political body.
Norway is in the EEA and the single market and is part of free movement of labour. That is an accommodation we would have to come to even if out of the EU. Pretending different is fantasy. We could cope with that but there would be little difference.
But we are not in the Euro we are not part of ever closer union (most of us do not want to be) and the only way we are likely to get a good deal to live with all that is by negotiating from within. If that fails then it is indeed failure because tying to get anything better from without is not very likely.
You can wish away with your fairy tales but ultimately Farage is peddling a big lie.
In respect of health services - you are clearly in support of Farage and want an insurance system with more private involvement which would be more costly to workers and employers than now. The French NHS is many billions in debt.
Of course the Eurofanatics like yourself (and I think you are being utterly dishonest when you claim otherwise based on your previous postings) are desperate to make it seem like the EU is moving away from its founding principles. It is not. Ever closer union is still a guiding principle and political union is the only realistic way to save the Eurozone.
The idea of getting a better deal inside the EU is a fantasy and the sooner people like you realise that the better - before you do any more damage. Look top the wider world and stop clinging to your mother's skirts. They can't save you.0 -
Why is Scotland being ignored? Very interesting developments. I liked James Kirkup's article in The Telegraph comparing Alex Salmond to Obi Wan Kenobe 'strike me down and I'll become more powerful than you could ever imagine.' We're heading for another hung parliament and there could be a significant tranche of SNP MPs. It looks like they won't support a minority Tory government.0
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Sid the Sexist has been posting for years!Swiss_Bob said:
Milli Tant joins PB. Bonkers.foxinsoxuk said:
I think that there is a lot of validity in this view. We cannot police peoples individual beliefs and morality, and indeed should not do so. What we should not permit is for people to abuse positions of power to put their sexist (or other bigoted) views into practice.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. F, reminds me this nonsense:
https://twitter.com/femfreq/status/533445611543363585
"There’s no such thing as sexism against men. That's because sexism is prejudice + power. Men are the dominant gender with power in society."
As long as most of society is dominated by one gender (or other group) then sexism/racism is an issue.
Once that patriarchal structure has broken down into a matriarchal replacement, it may be possible to have female sexism as a political issue, but at present that is not on the horizon (excepting some areas around family courts possibly).0 -
How's Leicester, nowadays?foxinsoxuk said:@PaulMidBeds
Of course there are a minority of observant Catholics who do follow the teachings, but my argument was against the argument that Alan Johnson destroyed the Catholic Scottish Labour vote.
There is good evidence that fertility rates of migrant groups converge fairly quickly with the host:
http://www.restore.ac.uk/UPTAP/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/sylvie-dubuc-presentation.pdf
In particular look at slide 10. The only groups with above 2.0 as fertility are Muslims and Jews, and fertility rates amongst Muslims has dropped markedly. We are simply not going to be outbred as you suggested.
I can tell you how London is.0 -
Clearly some women ARE interested in politics. I've never personally known any. Any mention of politics and it's usually "shut-up"foxinsoxuk said:
After all women cannot do science, politics, economics or even park properly!CD13 said:
Prof. Camille Paglia. lesbian and feminist ...
"If civilization had been left in female hands, we would still be living in grass huts."
Are you channelling Godfrey Bloom?
As for the science etc my cousin followed her father into engineering, the only woman in the class, not sure she did any actual engineering though. I will check.
I don't know why some women just don't accept the fact that a lot of women would rather just be mothers than 'having a career'. It's what they're made for in a literal sense and nothing wrong with that, or for that matter having a career/job.
The sad fact is that most families can't afford to have a parent at home to do some parenting and we wonder why kids are so messed up.0 -
Northern. Ireland.foxinsoxuk said:
Even Poles in UK have lower fertility (when adjusted for age). Somalis in the UK have a fertility rate over 5.Paul_Mid_Beds said:
Probably because most of their people having children are in the UK!foxinsoxuk said:
Poland has one of the lowest fertility rates in Europe at 1.33. Only Ireland and France are above 2, and those are both much lower than previous (and of course much of French Fertility is in African/Maghrebi groups)Paul_Mid_Beds said:foxinsoxuk said:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/most-uk-catholics-support-abortion-and-use-of-contraception-2083291.html
Most UK Catholics support abortion and contraception. Tis you that is ignorant.
Catholic Europe has some of the lowest fertility rates in the world, indicating that actions speak louder than rhetoric.
I am personally glad that so many Catholics treat their Priests views so casually, and I hope that they treat being told how to vote with equal contempt.
I think you will find Western Europe has the lowest fertility rates. Its not been Catholic europe for some decades now.
Unfortunately for the secular liberals currently holding sway their prized mass immigration is ensuring that millions of catholics, other Christians and Muslims who dont subscribe to liberal nostrums are coming here and having lots of Children.
Roll on fifty years and its going to be a very different Britain, one that Mary Whitehouse would feel far more at home in than Hattie Harman.
Me? My wife is African and we have >3
Cultures that practice contraception and abortion will inevitably be overrun by cultures that don't.
http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/statistics_explained/mobile/index.php#Page?title=Fertility statistics&lg=en
My conclusion stands: Catholics largely ignore their official church on matters of sex.
So Catholics by and large routinely ignore church teachings on sexual matters. Other ethnic groups have other traditions.
QED0 -
:-)foxinsoxuk said:
Sid the Sexist has been posting for years!Swiss_Bob said:
Milli Tant joins PB. Bonkers.foxinsoxuk said:
I think that there is a lot of validity in this view. We cannot police peoples individual beliefs and morality, and indeed should not do so. What we should not permit is for people to abuse positions of power to put their sexist (or other bigoted) views into practice.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. F, reminds me this nonsense:
https://twitter.com/femfreq/status/533445611543363585
"There’s no such thing as sexism against men. That's because sexism is prejudice + power. Men are the dominant gender with power in society."
As long as most of society is dominated by one gender (or other group) then sexism/racism is an issue.
Once that patriarchal structure has broken down into a matriarchal replacement, it may be possible to have female sexism as a political issue, but at present that is not on the horizon (excepting some areas around family courts possibly).0 -
No, he was quoting Prof. Camille Paglia, the noted feminist. A fuller quote would befoxinsoxuk said:
After all women cannot do science, politics, economics or even park properly!CD13 said:
Prof. Camille Paglia. lesbian and feminist ...
"If civilization had been left in female hands, we would still be living in grass huts."
Are you channelling Godfrey Bloom?
"Feminism sees every hierarchy as repressive, a social fiction; every negative about woman is a male lie designed to keep her in her place. Feminism has exceeded its proper mission of seeking political equality for women and has ended by rejecting contingency, that is, human limitation by nature or fate. . . . If civilization had been left in female hands, we would still be living in grass huts.''
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It is amazing that Dr. Foxinsoxuk hasn't figured out that it's women that have babies.Swiss_Bob said:
Clearly some women ARE interested in politics. I've never personally known any. Any mention of politics and it's usually "shut-up"foxinsoxuk said:
After all women cannot do science, politics, economics or even park properly!CD13 said:
Prof. Camille Paglia. lesbian and feminist ...
"If civilization had been left in female hands, we would still be living in grass huts."
Are you channelling Godfrey Bloom?
As for the science etc my cousin followed her father into engineering, the only woman in the class, not sure she did any actual engineering though. I will check.
I don't know why some women just don't accept the fact that a lot of women would rather just be mothers than 'having a career'. It's what they're made for in a literal sense and nothing wrong with that, or for that matter having a career/job.
The sad fact is that most families can't afford to have a parent at home to do some parenting and we wonder why kids are so messed up.
And we wonder why the NHS is such a mess.0 -
unopposed - despite knowing what a errrm unsuitable person he was for the jobSimonStClare said:
Good point, well made. - but they also elected Gordon Brown.Swiss_Bob said:She's bonkers. Isn't that an issue?
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Leicester is fine. Diwali and Guru Nanaks birthday were both delightful and good spirited.Ninoinoz said:
How's Leicester, nowadays?foxinsoxuk said:@PaulMidBeds
Of course there are a minority of observant Catholics who do follow the teachings, but my argument was against the argument that Alan Johnson destroyed the Catholic Scottish Labour vote.
There is good evidence that fertility rates of migrant groups converge fairly quickly with the host:
http://www.restore.ac.uk/UPTAP/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/sylvie-dubuc-presentation.pdf
In particular look at slide 10. The only groups with above 2.0 as fertility are Muslims and Jews, and fertility rates amongst Muslims has dropped markedly. We are simply not going to be outbred as you suggested.
I can tell you how London is.
The Diwali lights are now Christmas lights.
You may be interested in some local reaction to the recent C4 programme "Make Leicester British":
http://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/Reactions-Channel-4-s-Make-Leicester-British/story-24113047-detail/story.html
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Actually I think Northern Ireland is a perfect example to back up Foxinsox position in the wider sense. Whilst the catholic population may have been increasing steadily as a proportion of the wider population, the great fear amongst protestant unionists that this would lead to a majority in favour of reunification with the South has proved false. The proportion of the overall population content with remaining part of the UK&NI has increased in spite of demographic shifts.Ninoinoz said:
Northern. Ireland.foxinsoxuk said:
Even Poles in UK have lower fertility (when adjusted for age). Somalis in the UK have a fertility rate over 5.Paul_Mid_Beds said:
Probably because most of their people having children are in the UK!foxinsoxuk said:
Poland has one of the lowest fertility rates in Europe at 1.33. Only Ireland and France are above 2, and those are both much lower than previous (and of course much of French Fertility is in African/Maghrebi groups)Paul_Mid_Beds said:foxinsoxuk said:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/most-uk-catholics-support-abortion-and-use-of-contraception-2083291.html
Most UK Catholics support abortion and contraception. Tis you that is ignorant.
Catholic Europe has some of the lowest fertility rates in the world, indicating that actions speak louder than rhetoric.
I am personally glad that so many Catholics treat their Priests views so casually, and I hope that they treat being told how to vote with equal contempt.
I think you will find Western Europe has the lowest fertility rates. Its not been Catholic europe for some decades now.
Unfortunately for the secular liberals currently holding sway their prized mass immigration is ensuring that millions of catholics, other Christians and Muslims who dont subscribe to liberal nostrums are coming here and having lots of Children.
Roll on fifty years and its going to be a very different Britain, one that Mary Whitehouse would feel far more at home in than Hattie Harman.
Me? My wife is African and we have >3
Cultures that practice contraception and abortion will inevitably be overrun by cultures that don't.
http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/statistics_explained/mobile/index.php#Page?title=Fertility statistics&lg=en
My conclusion stands: Catholics largely ignore their official church on matters of sex.
So Catholics by and large routinely ignore church teachings on sexual matters. Other ethnic groups have other traditions.
QED
Just because a section of the population may have arrived with certain cultural attitudes does not mean they will maintain those attitudes once they have settled into the new society.0 -
New Thread.
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(Moved to new thread)0
