Apathy in the UK – politicalbetting.com
Apathy in the UK – politicalbetting.com
How would mainland Britons feel if Northern Ireland left the UK?Upset: 22%Pleased: 11%Not bothered either way: 50%https://t.co/wAtWZ6UNBg pic.twitter.com/cKTEYyO3u4
Comments
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First, if I can be bothered....0
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Let you have it, as I couldn't be arsed.0
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I'm apathetic about whether NI is in the UK, but I'm not apathetic about wasting £15 billion/year every year - more than 2p on income tax - on it.
Better off out.2 -
Also the "Unionist" in the Conservative and Unionist Party is a historical relic, from the days when it absorbed the Liberal Unionist party, just as they were not very conservative when they introduced gay marriage or the labour in the Labour Party doesn't really fit a party which subsidises idleness, in benefits and in the public sector, and penalises labour through high taxes, or the Lib Dems, who tried to overturn the EU referendum, are anti-democratic.3
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This is not exactly a surprise, but good that it is getting reported.
Other police forces have higher rates of sexual misconduct and racism claims than Met
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/apr/17/police-forces-sexual-misconduct-racism-claims-higher-than-met
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"I’m not surprised by this polling, back in 2019 YouGov found members of the Conservative and UNIONIST Party, radicalised by Brexit, were prepared to destroy the Union to get their precious Brexit."
What an odd way to describe a situation where people were supportive of a democratic election result being enacted and happy to have other people to make their own democratic choices based on that. What was radical and extremist was the Remainer headbangers who were willing to overturn democracy to stay in their precious project to subjugate the peoples of Europe into a superstate.4 -
Turning to a subject people can be bothered about...
One in eight Britons have paid for private health services in the last year, amid frustration with delays in getting NHS treatment and a growing willingness to buy care using salary or savings.
New research by YouGov found that another 27% of people had considered going private, for themselves or a loved one, but decided against it, often because they couldn’t afford it.
Added to the 13% who did pay for care for themselves or someone they live with, that means that two in five people have either resorted to using medical care at private clinics and hospitals or thought about doing so.
NHS campaigners said they feared that the findings show that it is becoming a “two-tier” health service and blamed underfunding and staff shortages for leaving it unable to provide timely care.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/apr/17/one-in-eight-britons-pay-for-private-health-services-survey-shows
This is not a surprise. Have a private health appointment myself tomorrow, as it so happens. The people who've been running all those "seven days to save the NHS"- type stories since the 1980s had it all wrong, it turns out: it's not going to die off through being flogged to the Americans, it's going to end up being abandoned by anyone with money because of increasingly ludicrous waiting times.
Again, don't expect Labour to ride to the rescue. Fixing both the health service itself, and alleviating the poverty that burdens it indirectly (through the consequences of bad diets and extreme levels of obesity,) will take huge amounts of money, which it clearly isn't willing to extract from better off voters. So, if the state won't pay for anything, then people will have to do it themselves - and those without means will have to chance their luck with charity, or just shuffle off into a dark corner and die quietly.1 -
Exactly. Paying an ever greater bung to bribe a bunch of sectarian nutters who turn to rioting over which fleg is flown in which street. Whether Presbyterian or Catholic, the violent tendencies of their ideologies fits far more at home with Irish Republican tradition than it does with British evolutionary reform.Fishing said:I'm apathetic about whether NI is in the UK, but I'm not apathetic about wasting £15 billion/year every year - more than 2p on income tax - on it.
Better off out.3 -
Also, 15 billion a year. That's virtually 350 million a week!3
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Sinn Fein are no SNP. If they get power in both the 26 and 6 counties then they won't dither and waste their shot.2
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The SNP had their shot, in 2014. They just didn’t get the result they wanted. Something similar would be likely in Northern Ireland in the current circumstances.Dura_Ace said:Sinn Fein are no SNP. If they get power in both the 26 and 6 counties then they won't dither and waste their shot.
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That's the MCC buggered.
Priti Patel goes in to bat for greater control at Lord’s
Priti Patel spent £45,000 on taking out life membership of Marylebone Cricket Club in 2020 while she was home secretary, enabling her to jump a 25-year waiting list. Now, as if starved of the cut and thrust of debate after returning to the back benches at Westminster, she has put her name to two resolutions by recalcitrant members over the regulations and workings of MCC.
These seek greater accountability in the running of the club. One refers to the threat of disciplinary action in the rules and the other concerns “improving involvement in decision making”, which particularly relates to MCC’s attempt to drop the Eton v Harrow and Varsity match at Lord’s without consulting the membership.
Patel, who resigned as home secretary last September and whose son is a keen cricketer, was on the waiting list for MCC membership for several years. Her chance to join came when funds were swiftly needed to maintain the ground and pay employees when no cricket was possible during the Covid-19 pandemic.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/priti-patel-goes-in-to-bat-for-greater-control-at-lords-mfxnpwvln0 -
Most people wouldn't be bothered one way or another. A United Ireland wouldn't necessarily be a good thing. It might lead to civil.war.0
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I don't really consider Northern Ireland to be part of the UK.
Sorry if that's offensive to unionists but I just don't. It's Ireland, part of a separate island. It's when, not if, they unite.0 -
Get MPs to clean CCHQ.
The Conservative Party has sacked security staff and cleaners to try to bolster its election war chest after months of leadership chaos.
The Times has been told that members of security and cleaning teams, some of whom had worked at the Matthew Parker Street headquarters in London for many years, had been let go to save money before local elections next month and the general election, expected in 2024.
Tory sources feared donors might be “spooked” by the move, which is unlikely to save vast sums due to the relatively low salaries the staff were on. One said: “It will be interesting to know what the donors think. If they think, ‘If it’s that bad, why should I waste my money?’ Or will it prompt them to say, ‘I better shore them up with £1 million?’ ” They said: “It’s sad because, obviously, we all want to win the next election, but it’s not a great look.”
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tory-hq-sacks-cleaners-to-boost-elections-war-chest-hqzr7pjv50 -
Positive news about cricket despite the MCC. Atherton is the best Cricket journo out there.TheScreamingEagles said:That's the MCC buggered.
Priti Patel goes in to bat for greater control at Lord’s
Priti Patel spent £45,000 on taking out life membership of Marylebone Cricket Club in 2020 while she was home secretary, enabling her to jump a 25-year waiting list. Now, as if starved of the cut and thrust of debate after returning to the back benches at Westminster, she has put her name to two resolutions by recalcitrant members over the regulations and workings of MCC.
These seek greater accountability in the running of the club. One refers to the threat of disciplinary action in the rules and the other concerns “improving involvement in decision making”, which particularly relates to MCC’s attempt to drop the Eton v Harrow and Varsity match at Lord’s without consulting the membership.
Patel, who resigned as home secretary last September and whose son is a keen cricketer, was on the waiting list for MCC membership for several years. Her chance to join came when funds were swiftly needed to maintain the ground and pay employees when no cricket was possible during the Covid-19 pandemic.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/priti-patel-goes-in-to-bat-for-greater-control-at-lords-mfxnpwvln
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/dafb98e4-dc3a-11ed-9cc2-0f7e26ed83eb?shareToken=5798b1bd05dbd06fcd44c5a94f33496b0 -
Bad idea. Anything they try to clean up ends up even more covered in shit.TheScreamingEagles said:Get MPs to clean CCHQ.
The Conservative Party has sacked security staff and cleaners to try to bolster its election war chest after months of leadership chaos.
The Times has been told that members of security and cleaning teams, some of whom had worked at the Matthew Parker Street headquarters in London for many years, had been let go to save money before local elections next month and the general election, expected in 2024.
Tory sources feared donors might be “spooked” by the move, which is unlikely to save vast sums due to the relatively low salaries the staff were on. One said: “It will be interesting to know what the donors think. If they think, ‘If it’s that bad, why should I waste my money?’ Or will it prompt them to say, ‘I better shore them up with £1 million?’ ” They said: “It’s sad because, obviously, we all want to win the next election, but it’s not a great look.”
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tory-hq-sacks-cleaners-to-boost-elections-war-chest-hqzr7pjv5
Bit like the DfE.0 -
Mind you, I consider flag waving nationalism to be akin to willy waving. All part of male-driven testosterone-fuelled aggression.
The world would be a much better place if nationhood, flags, and national anthems were entirely abolished.
Have a nice and peace-filled day everyone xx
p.s. perhaps when Leon's aliens come and visit planet earth all this may happen. That was certainly the gist of the wonderful Carl Sagan's theorising.
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“Imagine” describes a dystopia.Heathener said:Mind you, I consider flag waving nationalism to be akin to willy waving. All part of male-driven testosterone-fuelled aggression.
The world would be a much better place if nationhood, flags, and national anthems were entirely abolished.
Have a nice and peace-filled day everyone xx
p.s. perhaps when Leon's aliens come and visit planet earth all this may happen. That was certainly the gist of the wonderful Carl Sagan's theorising.1 -
Here's the killer quote,TheScreamingEagles said:Get MPs to clean CCHQ.
The Conservative Party has sacked security staff and cleaners to try to bolster its election war chest after months of leadership chaos.
The Times has been told that members of security and cleaning teams, some of whom had worked at the Matthew Parker Street headquarters in London for many years, had been let go to save money before local elections next month and the general election, expected in 2024.
Tory sources feared donors might be “spooked” by the move, which is unlikely to save vast sums due to the relatively low salaries the staff were on. One said: “It will be interesting to know what the donors think. If they think, ‘If it’s that bad, why should I waste my money?’ Or will it prompt them to say, ‘I better shore them up with £1 million?’ ” They said: “It’s sad because, obviously, we all want to win the next election, but it’s not a great look.”
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tory-hq-sacks-cleaners-to-boost-elections-war-chest-hqzr7pjv5
"I mean, ultimately, if it came to it, Rishi could just put his hand in his pocket."2 -
A move that will save trivial sums of money.TheScreamingEagles said:Get MPs to clean CCHQ.
The Conservative Party has sacked security staff and cleaners to try to bolster its election war chest after months of leadership chaos.
The Times has been told that members of security and cleaning teams, some of whom had worked at the Matthew Parker Street headquarters in London for many years, had been let go to save money before local elections next month and the general election, expected in 2024.
Tory sources feared donors might be “spooked” by the move, which is unlikely to save vast sums due to the relatively low salaries the staff were on. One said: “It will be interesting to know what the donors think. If they think, ‘If it’s that bad, why should I waste my money?’ Or will it prompt them to say, ‘I better shore them up with £1 million?’ ” They said: “It’s sad because, obviously, we all want to win the next election, but it’s not a great look.”
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tory-hq-sacks-cleaners-to-boost-elections-war-chest-hqzr7pjv5
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Was forever thusSean_F said:
A move that will save trivial sums of money.TheScreamingEagles said:Get MPs to clean CCHQ.
The Conservative Party has sacked security staff and cleaners to try to bolster its election war chest after months of leadership chaos.
The Times has been told that members of security and cleaning teams, some of whom had worked at the Matthew Parker Street headquarters in London for many years, had been let go to save money before local elections next month and the general election, expected in 2024.
Tory sources feared donors might be “spooked” by the move, which is unlikely to save vast sums due to the relatively low salaries the staff were on. One said: “It will be interesting to know what the donors think. If they think, ‘If it’s that bad, why should I waste my money?’ Or will it prompt them to say, ‘I better shore them up with £1 million?’ ” They said: “It’s sad because, obviously, we all want to win the next election, but it’s not a great look.”
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tory-hq-sacks-cleaners-to-boost-elections-war-chest-hqzr7pjv50 -
Potentially, it ends up costing more, if you have other CCHQ staff doing an amateur job of cleaning their workspaces rather than getting on with their actual jobs.Sean_F said:
A move that will save trivial sums of money.TheScreamingEagles said:Get MPs to clean CCHQ.
The Conservative Party has sacked security staff and cleaners to try to bolster its election war chest after months of leadership chaos.
The Times has been told that members of security and cleaning teams, some of whom had worked at the Matthew Parker Street headquarters in London for many years, had been let go to save money before local elections next month and the general election, expected in 2024.
Tory sources feared donors might be “spooked” by the move, which is unlikely to save vast sums due to the relatively low salaries the staff were on. One said: “It will be interesting to know what the donors think. If they think, ‘If it’s that bad, why should I waste my money?’ Or will it prompt them to say, ‘I better shore them up with £1 million?’ ” They said: “It’s sad because, obviously, we all want to win the next election, but it’s not a great look.”
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tory-hq-sacks-cleaners-to-boost-elections-war-chest-hqzr7pjv5
However, spoiling the ship of state by cutting the tar budget has been fashionable for a while now. (See courts, hospital consultants doing their own secretarial work, anyone in the public sector wrestling with wobbly IT etc).
It's got to be everyone's hope that smallish, well-focused bits of spending can unlock noticeable improvements. Sadly, I don't think Conservatives are interested any more.6 -
My schadenfreude levels are ticking up a notch... Sturgeon has some difficult questions coming up that need answers.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/86d24d4c-dc6e-11ed-a0a8-657f9e54fc6a?shareToken=afdd9f784d46b0872e98133cf5b0f6c82 -
Good morning
I am ambivalent to Northern Ireland and it has to be upto the populace to decide their future
However, since the benefits they have with access to the single market and the need to keep the peace I expect the present position to continue2 -
Yet another mass shooting in America.
Alabama shooting: Four dead at Dadeville 16th birthday party
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-652937370 -
I'm not sure this is news.
I'd be upset but the most common sentiment towards Northern Ireland on the mainland has been indifference for decades, and most Britons have never been there.4 -
In yet another edition of "America is not a Failed State":ydoethur said:Yet another mass shooting in America.
Alabama shooting: Four dead at Dadeville 16th birthday party
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-65293737
https://twitter.com/michaeldweiss/status/1647763010348253192?t=pgtXpaet11JpRIw49K8KPQ&s=19
"Tucker Carlson pushed a fake version of a U.S. intelligence document about Ukrainian war casualties. It was doctored by a fraud podcaster who claimed to be a Russian woman from Luhansk. In reality, Sarah Bils is a former U.S. Navy clerk from New Jersey—and she pocketed all the money she claimed to raise for Russian causes."0 -
Such a naive post. Once you'd got past the utter chaos and destruction of such a move - which would likely be accompanied by extreme violence - new group identities would simply fill the vacuum and you'd have absolutely no guarantee they'd be progressive or inclusive ones. In fact, that would be most likely.Heathener said:Mind you, I consider flag waving nationalism to be akin to willy waving. All part of male-driven testosterone-fuelled aggression.
The world would be a much better place if nationhood, flags, and national anthems were entirely abolished.
Have a nice and peace-filled day everyone xx
p.s. perhaps when Leon's aliens come and visit planet earth all this may happen. That was certainly the gist of the wonderful Carl Sagan's theorising.
What you're essentially arguing for is the abolition of people's common humanity because you're so blinkered you associate their frailties with the most readily visible totems.2 -
I had assumed that headbanging Brexiteers had what was best for the UK in mind. That we *had* to leave, respect the democratic "election" (it was a referendum not an election btw) etc.WillG said:"I’m not surprised by this polling, back in 2019 YouGov found members of the Conservative and UNIONIST Party, radicalised by Brexit, were prepared to destroy the Union to get their precious Brexit."
What an odd way to describe a situation where people were supportive of a democratic election result being enacted and happy to have other people to make their own democratic choices based on that. What was radical and extremist was the Remainer headbangers who were willing to overturn democracy to stay in their precious project to subjugate the peoples of Europe into a superstate.
How does that work if Norniron and/or Scotland secede as a result? You no longer have a Britain do you? Why not be honest and replace all references to Britain or the UK with England?
Because that is what the surveys show. Little Englanders not caring one way or another about the union.2 -
From the Times's coverage of Sunak's maths speech. On balance, I'm pretty sure that devising their own spreadsheets is not a good use of (Prime) Ministerial time.
Sunak, a former investment banker who devises his own spreadsheets for use in government, will argue that poor maths skills are costing the British economy.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/1b553810-dc9e-11ed-9cc2-0f7e26ed83eb?shareToken=af03f348489fc6e6d8998cc011c7495f1 -
That was an opinion poll question before Brexit took place, and a large majority said they would be prepared to do so.WillG said:"I’m not surprised by this polling, back in 2019 YouGov found members of the Conservative and UNIONIST Party, radicalised by Brexit, were prepared to destroy the Union to get their precious Brexit."
What an odd way to describe a situation ...0 -
We had a lovely but rather naive student from NI join our department a year or two back. She hadn't been to the mainland before. She couldn't get over the absence of flags, murals, painted kerbstones etc in Leicester. She loves her hometown in NI, but now finds that sort of nationalism rather bizarre.
The worst bit of the Good Friday Agreement is how it sets in stone that division, and prevents progress to secular politics.3 -
Absolutely nothing is "inevitable", except death.Heathener said:I don't really consider Northern Ireland to be part of the UK.
Sorry if that's offensive to unionists but I just don't. It's Ireland, part of a separate island. It's when, not if, they unite.
The rest is simply the extrapolation of present day trends laiden with assumptions and a lack of imagination as to how it could change or fail to change.2 -
If that's how he analyses the world in order to make decisions, it makes sense.Stuartinromford said:From the Times's coverage of Sunak's maths speech. On balance, I'm pretty sure that devising their own spreadsheets is not a good use of (Prime) Ministerial time.
Sunak, a former investment banker who devises his own spreadsheets for use in government, will argue that poor maths skills are costing the British economy.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/1b553810-dc9e-11ed-9cc2-0f7e26ed83eb?shareToken=af03f348489fc6e6d8998cc011c7495f
Whether it lead to good decision making is a different question.2 -
It is strange how some people believe at the same time that Scottish independence and Irish reunification are simultaneously natural states and inevitable.Casino_Royale said:
Absolutely nothing is "inevitable", except death.Heathener said:I don't really consider Northern Ireland to be part of the UK.
Sorry if that's offensive to unionists but I just don't. It's Ireland, part of a separate island. It's when, not if, they unite.
The rest is simply the extrapolation of present day trends laiden with assumptions and a lack of imagination as to how it could change or fail to change.1 -
I can't speak for all but plenty of Brexiteers smelt a rat when questions like this were asked at the time - it was at the peak reversing/stalling Brexit phase - as they sensed this was Remainers trying to find a crook or hook to argue not to do it, and they were pretty fed up about all that tomfoolery by this stage.RochdalePioneers said:
I had assumed that headbanging Brexiteers had what was best for the UK in mind. That we *had* to leave, respect the democratic "election" (it was a referendum not an election btw) etc.WillG said:"I’m not surprised by this polling, back in 2019 YouGov found members of the Conservative and UNIONIST Party, radicalised by Brexit, were prepared to destroy the Union to get their precious Brexit."
What an odd way to describe a situation where people were supportive of a democratic election result being enacted and happy to have other people to make their own democratic choices based on that. What was radical and extremist was the Remainer headbangers who were willing to overturn democracy to stay in their precious project to subjugate the peoples of Europe into a superstate.
How does that work if Norniron and/or Scotland secede as a result? You no longer have a Britain do you? Why not be honest and replace all references to Britain or the UK with England?
Because that is what the surveys show. Little Englanders not caring one way or another about the union.
So they answered reflexively "Brexit" to any and every such question, to get the message across.
I wouldn't take it wholly literally, although people do of course.
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Shocking. If America isn't prepared to have 16 year olds armed and ready to protect themselves at all times, then we simply must arm the dance teachers. All people in dance studios MUST have concealed firearms inserted into their leotard somewhere. Ooh and armed guards. How about a sniper nest over the front door?ydoethur said:Yet another mass shooting in America.
Alabama shooting: Four dead at Dadeville 16th birthday party
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-65293737
WON'T SOMEONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!1 -
...
We could arm them too.RochdalePioneers said:
Shocking. If America isn't prepared to have 16 year olds armed and ready to protect themselves at all times, then we simply must arm the dance teachers. All people in dance studios MUST have concealed firearms inserted into their leotard somewhere. Ooh and armed guards. How about a sniper nest over the front door?ydoethur said:Yet another mass shooting in America.
Alabama shooting: Four dead at Dadeville 16th birthday party
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-65293737
WON'T SOMEONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!0 -
can you explain why the GFA `set in stone' the division....is it becuase of the power-sharing structure?Foxy said:We had a lovely but rather naive student from NI join our department a year or two back. She hadn't been to the mainland before. She couldn't get over the absence of flags, murals, painted kerbstones etc in Leicester. She loves her hometown in NI, but now finds that sort of nationalism rather bizarre.
The worst bit of the Good Friday Agreement is how it sets in stone that division, and prevents progress to secular politics.0 -
Britain isn't the mainland for Norniron. Ireland is the mainland. This is another mainland. Unless she came from Rathlin Ireland or somewhere, but Ireland would still be the mainland.Foxy said:We had a lovely but rather naive student from NI join our department a year or two back. She hadn't been to the mainland before. She couldn't get over the absence of flags, murals, painted kerbstones etc in Leicester. She loves her hometown in NI, but now finds that sort of nationalism rather bizarre.
The worst bit of the Good Friday Agreement is how it sets in stone that division, and prevents progress to secular politics.0 -
The evidence suggests a strong degree of insouciance towards any negative effects of Brexit.Casino_Royale said:
I can't speak for all but plenty of Brexiteers smelt a rat when questions like this were asked at the time - it was at the peak reversing/stalling Brexit phase - as they sensed this was Remainers trying to find a crook or hook to argue not to do it, and they were pretty fed up about all that tomfoolery by this stage.RochdalePioneers said:
I had assumed that headbanging Brexiteers had what was best for the UK in mind. That we *had* to leave, respect the democratic "election" (it was a referendum not an election btw) etc.WillG said:"I’m not surprised by this polling, back in 2019 YouGov found members of the Conservative and UNIONIST Party, radicalised by Brexit, were prepared to destroy the Union to get their precious Brexit."
What an odd way to describe a situation where people were supportive of a democratic election result being enacted and happy to have other people to make their own democratic choices based on that. What was radical and extremist was the Remainer headbangers who were willing to overturn democracy to stay in their precious project to subjugate the peoples of Europe into a superstate.
How does that work if Norniron and/or Scotland secede as a result? You no longer have a Britain do you? Why not be honest and replace all references to Britain or the UK with England?
Because that is what the surveys show. Little Englanders not caring one way or another about the union.
So they answered reflexively "Brexit" to any and every such question, to get the message across.
I wouldn't take it wholly literally, although people do of course.
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It has always been thusRochdalePioneers said:
I had assumed that headbanging Brexiteers had what was best for the UK in mind. That we *had* to leave, respect the democratic "election" (it was a referendum not an election btw) etc.WillG said:"I’m not surprised by this polling, back in 2019 YouGov found members of the Conservative and UNIONIST Party, radicalised by Brexit, were prepared to destroy the Union to get their precious Brexit."
What an odd way to describe a situation where people were supportive of a democratic election result being enacted and happy to have other people to make their own democratic choices based on that. What was radical and extremist was the Remainer headbangers who were willing to overturn democracy to stay in their precious project to subjugate the peoples of Europe into a superstate.
How does that work if Norniron and/or Scotland secede as a result? You no longer have a Britain do you? Why not be honest and replace all references to Britain or the UK with England?
Because that is what the surveys show. Little Englanders not caring one way or another about the union.0 -
I assume some respondents feel as you do and others don't. England and Britain have been interchangeable for a long long time with the establishment, so its not really a surprise that such attitudes resonate with some.Casino_Royale said:
I can't speak for all but plenty of Brexiteers smelt a rat when questions like this were asked at the time - it was at the peak reversing/stalling Brexit phase - as they sensed this was Remainers trying to find a crook or hook to argue not to do it, and they were pretty fed up about all that tomfoolery by this stage.RochdalePioneers said:
I had assumed that headbanging Brexiteers had what was best for the UK in mind. That we *had* to leave, respect the democratic "election" (it was a referendum not an election btw) etc.WillG said:"I’m not surprised by this polling, back in 2019 YouGov found members of the Conservative and UNIONIST Party, radicalised by Brexit, were prepared to destroy the Union to get their precious Brexit."
What an odd way to describe a situation where people were supportive of a democratic election result being enacted and happy to have other people to make their own democratic choices based on that. What was radical and extremist was the Remainer headbangers who were willing to overturn democracy to stay in their precious project to subjugate the peoples of Europe into a superstate.
How does that work if Norniron and/or Scotland secede as a result? You no longer have a Britain do you? Why not be honest and replace all references to Britain or the UK with England?
Because that is what the surveys show. Little Englanders not caring one way or another about the union.
So they answered reflexively "Brexit" to any and every such question, to get the message across.
I wouldn't take it wholly literally, although people do of course.
In simple reality though, it IS England not Britain or UK. NornIron and Scotland both voted to remain but get overruled by England. Even now, we have a settlement in Northern Ireland which the people there support, and the English politicians are still trying to overturn it...2 -
If the British hadn't been reasonably apathetic about losing their overseas possessions, the end of Empire would have been a lot harder for all concerned.3
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Judge delays Dominion and Fox News trial amid reports of settlement talksFoxy said:
In yet another edition of "America is not a Failed State":ydoethur said:Yet another mass shooting in America.
Alabama shooting: Four dead at Dadeville 16th birthday party
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-65293737
https://twitter.com/michaeldweiss/status/1647763010348253192?t=pgtXpaet11JpRIw49K8KPQ&s=19
"Tucker Carlson pushed a fake version of a U.S. intelligence document about Ukrainian war casualties. It was doctored by a fraud podcaster who claimed to be a Russian woman from Luhansk. In reality, Sarah Bils is a former U.S. Navy clerk from New Jersey—and she pocketed all the money she claimed to raise for Russian causes."
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/apr/17/judge-delays-dominion-and-fox-news-trial-until-tuesday
I like the way they argue that it would set a terrible precedent were they to be found liable for knowingly peddling defamatory lies.
Fox accuses Dominion of cherrypicking evidence and has argued that it is defending the first amendment, and that a win for Dominion would lead to more lawsuits against media outlets and weaken press protections in the US...1 -
Absolutely. Set a nice sensible age (8? 10?) where all children MUST be bought a gun for their birthday. And given shooting lessons. And told that they must be prepared to shoot their friends at any time in any place because that constant deadly threat is the only way to keep them safe.Mexicanpete said:...
We could arm them too.RochdalePioneers said:
Shocking. If America isn't prepared to have 16 year olds armed and ready to protect themselves at all times, then we simply must arm the dance teachers. All people in dance studios MUST have concealed firearms inserted into their leotard somewhere. Ooh and armed guards. How about a sniper nest over the front door?ydoethur said:Yet another mass shooting in America.
Alabama shooting: Four dead at Dadeville 16th birthday party
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-65293737
WON'T SOMEONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!
Its the only moral way forward.1 -
Disagree. There's a lot of distillation of thought and contemplation when building a spreadsheet-based model. I'd be very happy to know that every PM did so. I can't see BoJo, and for sure Liz Truss, knowing where the "sum" function is.Stuartinromford said:From the Times's coverage of Sunak's maths speech. On balance, I'm pretty sure that devising their own spreadsheets is not a good use of (Prime) Ministerial time.
Sunak, a former investment banker who devises his own spreadsheets for use in government, will argue that poor maths skills are costing the British economy.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/1b553810-dc9e-11ed-9cc2-0f7e26ed83eb?shareToken=af03f348489fc6e6d8998cc011c7495f1 -
Morning allydoethur said:Yet another mass shooting in America.
Alabama shooting: Four dead at Dadeville 16th birthday party
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-65293737
Even more depressing, according to the Gunviolence archive, there were 7 mass shootings yesterday (10 killed, 39 injured in toto) - though the one mentioned was the worst, with another 20 people injured on top of the 4 killed.
The criteria is 4 or more people killed or injured in any incident, and there is already another one reported this morning.
https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/reports/mass-shooting0 -
Yep - English nationalists don’t care about Northern Ireland shock!RochdalePioneers said:
I assume some respondents feel as you do and others don't. England and Britain have been interchangeable for a long long time with the establishment, so its not really a surprise that such attitudes resonate with some.Casino_Royale said:
I can't speak for all but plenty of Brexiteers smelt a rat when questions like this were asked at the time - it was at the peak reversing/stalling Brexit phase - as they sensed this was Remainers trying to find a crook or hook to argue not to do it, and they were pretty fed up about all that tomfoolery by this stage.RochdalePioneers said:
I had assumed that headbanging Brexiteers had what was best for the UK in mind. That we *had* to leave, respect the democratic "election" (it was a referendum not an election btw) etc.WillG said:"I’m not surprised by this polling, back in 2019 YouGov found members of the Conservative and UNIONIST Party, radicalised by Brexit, were prepared to destroy the Union to get their precious Brexit."
What an odd way to describe a situation where people were supportive of a democratic election result being enacted and happy to have other people to make their own democratic choices based on that. What was radical and extremist was the Remainer headbangers who were willing to overturn democracy to stay in their precious project to subjugate the peoples of Europe into a superstate.
How does that work if Norniron and/or Scotland secede as a result? You no longer have a Britain do you? Why not be honest and replace all references to Britain or the UK with England?
Because that is what the surveys show. Little Englanders not caring one way or another about the union.
So they answered reflexively "Brexit" to any and every such question, to get the message across.
I wouldn't take it wholly literally, although people do of course.
In simple reality though, it IS England not Britain or UK. NornIron and Scotland both voted to remain but get overruled by England. Even now, we have a settlement in Northern Ireland which the people there support, and the English politicians are still trying to overturn it...
0 -
Since his own government devised the current curriculum I'm not sure that he's on to quite the winner he thinks he is. If poor maths skills are an issue, then perhaps before declaring more of the same will magically fix it he should ask whether it's wise to put failed investment fund managers in charge of curriculum development.Stuartinromford said:From the Times's coverage of Sunak's maths speech. On balance, I'm pretty sure that devising their own spreadsheets is not a good use of (Prime) Ministerial time.
Sunak, a former investment banker who devises his own spreadsheets for use in government, will argue that poor maths skills are costing the British economy.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/1b553810-dc9e-11ed-9cc2-0f7e26ed83eb?shareToken=af03f348489fc6e6d8998cc011c7495f
(Also, to what extent is not understanding spreadsheets a maths issue and to what extent an IT issue? Finally, who still uses Excel for major databases?)1 -
Good story but naive is the word if she really "couldn't get over" the absence of that stuff. But great story.Foxy said:We had a lovely but rather naive student from NI join our department a year or two back. She hadn't been to the mainland before. She couldn't get over the absence of flags, murals, painted kerbstones etc in Leicester. She loves her hometown in NI, but now finds that sort of nationalism rather bizarre.
The worst bit of the Good Friday Agreement is how it sets in stone that division, and prevents progress to secular politics.0 -
The Hottest Political Reform of the Moment Gains Ground
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/04/16/ranked-choice-voting-minnesota-00089505
... At issue was ranked choice voting, a wonky reform that advocates are convinced will help drain the toxins from our national politics. Ranked choice voting allows voters to list their top three or more candidates, eliminates the last-place finisher and then redistributes votes to the remaining candidates until one emerges with a majority. The approach has been quietly making gains across the country, but it burst into the public consciousness last year after it helped a centrist Democrat thwart Sarah Palin’s bid for Congress in Alaska.
Though a limited number of cities in Minnesota already use ranked choice voting, the bill before the committee would extend the system to all state and federal elections and give all municipalities the option of adopting the reform. Alaska and Maine also have ranked choice voting, though in both states it was adopted through voter referendums; Minnesota would be the first to establish ranked choice voting through the legislative process...0 -
Were they really aware of it? From a distance I tend to see it as a kind of boiling the frog situation, with realisation of being sans empire very much after the event. Of course having eg an honours system based around the British Empire keeps the dream alive..Chris said:If the British hadn't been reasonably apathetic about losing their overseas possessions, the end of Empire would have been a lot harder for all concerned.
0 -
Good morning, everyone.
Mr. Pioneers, you are categorically wrong on a factual basis.
"In simple reality though, it IS England not Britain or UK. NornIron and Scotland both voted to remain but get overruled by England. Even now, we have a settlement in Northern Ireland which the people there support, and the English politicians are still trying to overturn it... "
Every vote counted equally in the referendum. No constituent part (England, Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland) voted as a bloc. There was no electoral college, and this was known about and not contested prior to the vote being held.
Your outrage at the 'overruling' of a minority by a majority in a referendum is absurd, and contrary to democracy and numeracy.
I apologise if that sounds harsh and I am trying to be polite, but while wailing and gnashing of teeth that the electorate voted one way is one thing, claiming somehow it was unfair for a majority vote in a referendum to count is just silly.2 -
For people to learn basic maths you need more maths teachers. Good luck with that!Stuartinromford said:From the Times's coverage of Sunak's maths speech. On balance, I'm pretty sure that devising their own spreadsheets is not a good use of (Prime) Ministerial time.
Sunak, a former investment banker who devises his own spreadsheets for use in government, will argue that poor maths skills are costing the British economy.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/1b553810-dc9e-11ed-9cc2-0f7e26ed83eb?shareToken=af03f348489fc6e6d8998cc011c7495f
0 -
Northern Ireland has been nothing but trouble since we invaded in the 12th? Century.SouthamObserver said:
Yep - English nationalists don’t care abouRochdalePioneers said:
I assume some respondents feel as you do and others don't. England and Britain have been interchangeable for a long long time with the establishment, so its not really a surprise that such attitudes resonate with some.Casino_Royale said:
I can't speak for all but plenty of Brexiteers smelt a rat when questions like this were asked at the time - it was at the peak reversing/stalling Brexit phase - as they sensed this was Remainers trying to find a crook or hook to argue not to do it, and they were pretty fed up about all that tomfoolery by this stage.RochdalePioneers said:
I had assumed that headbanging Brexiteers had what was best for the UK in mind. That we *had* to leave, respect the democratic "election" (it was a referendum not an election btw) etc.WillG said:"I’m not surprised by this polling, back in 2019 YouGov found members of the Conservative and UNIONIST Party, radicalised by Brexit, were prepared to destroy the Union to get their precious Brexit."
What an odd way to describe a situation where people were supportive of a democratic election result being enacted and happy to have other people to make their own democratic choices based on that. What was radical and extremist was the Remainer headbangers who were willing to overturn democracy to stay in their precious project to subjugate the peoples of Europe into a superstate.
How does that work if Norniron and/or Scotland secede as a result? You no longer have a Britain do you? Why not be honest and replace all references to Britain or the UK with England?
Because that is what the surveys show. Little Englanders not caring one way or another about the union.
So they answered reflexively "Brexit" to any and every such question, to get the message across.
I wouldn't take it wholly literally, although people do of course.
In simple reality though, it IS England not Britain or UK. NornIron and Scotland both voted to remain but get overruled by England. Even now, we have a settlement in Northern Ireland which the people there support, and the English politicians are still trying to overturn it...
t Northern Ireland shock!0 -
Given the evidence of police officers using transfers between forces to “clean slates” and close down internal investigations, this is self evident.Nigelb said:This is not exactly a surprise, but good that it is getting reported.
Other police forces have higher rates of sexual misconduct and racism claims than Met
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/apr/17/police-forces-sexual-misconduct-racism-claims-higher-than-met0 -
Casino_Royale said:
I can't speak for all but plenty of Brexiteers smelt a rat when questions like this were asked at the time - it was at the peak reversing/stalling Brexit phase - as they sensed this was Remainers trying to find a crook or hook to argue not to do it, and they were pretty fed up about all that tomfoolery by this stage.RochdalePioneers said:
I had assumed that headbanging Brexiteers had what was best for the UK in mind. That we *had* to leave, respect the democratic "election" (it was a referendum not an election btw) etc.WillG said:"I’m not surprised by this polling, back in 2019 YouGov found members of the Conservative and UNIONIST Party, radicalised by Brexit, were prepared to destroy the Union to get their precious Brexit."
What an odd way to describe a situation where people were supportive of a democratic election result being enacted and happy to have other people to make their own democratic choices based on that. What was radical and extremist was the Remainer headbangers who were willing to overturn democracy to stay in their precious project to subjugate the peoples of Europe into a superstate.
How does that work if Norniron and/or Scotland secede as a result? You no longer have a Britain do you? Why not be honest and replace all references to Britain or the UK with England?
Because that is what the surveys show. Little Englanders not caring one way or another about the union.
So they answered reflexively "Brexit" to any and every such question, to get the message across.
I wouldn't take it wholly literally, although people do of course.
Yes, stupid questions (don't know who commissioned the poll, but YouGov have form for doing misleading clickbaity surveys). Even at the time there was no convincing argument for saying Brexit would make destruction of the Conservative Party or Corbyn PM more likely. And Scottish independence was obviously going to be more difficult to achieve outside of the EU. Which just leaves Northern Ireland leaving the UK as plausibly more likely because of Brexit. But also an issue which even many Conservative Party members aren't that bothered about with or without Brexit.Casino_Royale said:
I can't speak for all but plenty of Brexiteers smelt a rat when questions like this were asked at the time - it was at the peak reversing/stalling Brexit phase - as they sensed this was Remainers trying to find a crook or hook to argue not to do it, and they were pretty fed up about all that tomfoolery by this stage.RochdalePioneers said:
I had assumed that headbanging Brexiteers had what was best for the UK in mind. That we *had* to leave, respect the democratic "election" (it was a referendum not an election btw) etc.WillG said:"I’m not surprised by this polling, back in 2019 YouGov found members of the Conservative and UNIONIST Party, radicalised by Brexit, were prepared to destroy the Union to get their precious Brexit."
What an odd way to describe a situation where people were supportive of a democratic election result being enacted and happy to have other people to make their own democratic choices based on that. What was radical and extremist was the Remainer headbangers who were willing to overturn democracy to stay in their precious project to subjugate the peoples of Europe into a superstate.
How does that work if Norniron and/or Scotland secede as a result? You no longer have a Britain do you? Why not be honest and replace all references to Britain or the UK with England?
Because that is what the surveys show. Little Englanders not caring one way or another about the union.
So they answered reflexively "Brexit" to any and every such question, to get the message across.
I wouldn't take it wholly literally, although people do of course.0 -
Fair point. Though probably not fair to Truss, who was just as Maths-qualified as Sunak. However...TOPPING said:
Disagree. There's a lot of distillation of thought and contemplation when building a spreadsheet-based model. I'd be very happy to know that every PM did so. I can't see BoJo, and for sure Liz Truss, knowing where the "sum" function is.Stuartinromford said:From the Times's coverage of Sunak's maths speech. On balance, I'm pretty sure that devising their own spreadsheets is not a good use of (Prime) Ministerial time.
Sunak, a former investment banker who devises his own spreadsheets for use in government, will argue that poor maths skills are costing the British economy.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/1b553810-dc9e-11ed-9cc2-0f7e26ed83eb?shareToken=af03f348489fc6e6d8998cc011c7495f
Creating spreadsheets really is a poor use of Prime Ministerial time, which is an incredibly scarce resource. If Rishi thinks in spreadsheets, give him a full-time standby Excel bod to create spreadsheets on demand.
Secondly, if a spreadsheet is an important part of Rishi's thought process, then I'm concerned about the job he's in. A lot of what PMs have to do is about judgement calls, adjudicating between two claims that aren't easily expressed as numbers or formulas. It speaks to the image of Sunak as a promising but junior analyst who needs to let go of some things before they're ready for the Big Office.
It's the sort of thing I can imagine Gordon Brown doing.1 -
I am fairly sure that Truss was good at Maths, so probably could. It was her complete lack of people skills that was her problem.TOPPING said:
Disagree. There's a lot of distillation of thought and contemplation when building a spreadsheet-based model. I'd be very happy to know that every PM did so. I can't see BoJo, and for sure Liz Truss, knowing where the "sum" function is.Stuartinromford said:From the Times's coverage of Sunak's maths speech. On balance, I'm pretty sure that devising their own spreadsheets is not a good use of (Prime) Ministerial time.
Sunak, a former investment banker who devises his own spreadsheets for use in government, will argue that poor maths skills are costing the British economy.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/1b553810-dc9e-11ed-9cc2-0f7e26ed83eb?shareToken=af03f348489fc6e6d8998cc011c7495f
Spreadsheet skills are key to management of course, though far from all managers can read one. Notably the SNP managers for example.0 -
Morning all!
Can someone explain to me what Rishi meant by everybody doing some sort of maths until 18?
For example, my grandson did four A-levels one of them being physics. Would that count?
And his sister is doing three, including psychology, which I gather includes a certain amount of statistics. Would that count?2 -
Mr. Root, it was the 12th century.
Henry II had it invaded to try and provide some land for his last son, John (renowned for being bad at almost everything and for almost everyone).0 -
Building spreadsheets involves making all those judgement calls and adjudications you mention. The value of a spreadsheet is the assumptions and thought process that goes into it, not necessarily the numbers that come out of it.Stuartinromford said:
Fair point. Though probably not fair to Truss, who was just as Maths-qualified as Sunak. However...TOPPING said:
Disagree. There's a lot of distillation of thought and contemplation when building a spreadsheet-based model. I'd be very happy to know that every PM did so. I can't see BoJo, and for sure Liz Truss, knowing where the "sum" function is.Stuartinromford said:From the Times's coverage of Sunak's maths speech. On balance, I'm pretty sure that devising their own spreadsheets is not a good use of (Prime) Ministerial time.
Sunak, a former investment banker who devises his own spreadsheets for use in government, will argue that poor maths skills are costing the British economy.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/1b553810-dc9e-11ed-9cc2-0f7e26ed83eb?shareToken=af03f348489fc6e6d8998cc011c7495f
Creating spreadsheets really is a poor use of Prime Ministerial time, which is an incredibly scarce resource. If Rishi thinks in spreadsheets, give him a full-time standby Excel bod to create spreadsheets on demand.
Secondly, if a spreadsheet is an important part of Rishi's thought process, then I'm concerned about the job he's in. A lot of what PMs have to do is about judgement calls, adjudicating between two claims that aren't easily expressed as numbers or formulas. It speaks to the image of Sunak as a promising but junior analyst who needs to let go of some things before they're ready for the Big Office.
It's the sort of thing I can imagine Gordon Brown doing.
Sunak is ultimately in charge of the nation's budget which is numbers so I am very happy that he is applying some rigorous thought to it.0 -
"Would that count?" VGOldKingCole said:Morning all!
Can someone explain to me what Rishi meant by everybody doing some sort of maths until 18?
For example, my grandson did four A-levels one of them being physics. Would that count?
And his sister is doing three, including psychology, which I gather includes a certain amount of statistics. Would that count?
1 -
I think the whole idea is idiotic.SouthamObserver said:
For people to learn basic maths you need more maths teachers. Good luck with that!Stuartinromford said:From the Times's coverage of Sunak's maths speech. On balance, I'm pretty sure that devising their own spreadsheets is not a good use of (Prime) Ministerial time.
Sunak, a former investment banker who devises his own spreadsheets for use in government, will argue that poor maths skills are costing the British economy.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/1b553810-dc9e-11ed-9cc2-0f7e26ed83eb?shareToken=af03f348489fc6e6d8998cc011c7495f
If it's a matter of basic numeracy, it should be possible to teach that well before the old school leaving age, and making it compulsory until 18 and devising new qualifications are just political gimmicks springing from a fundamental lack of understanding. And quite frankly I think some people do have a kind of mental block where maths and even arithmetic are concerned, and saying that shouldn't be socially acceptable is no help at all.
If it's a matter of attracting more people to study proper maths at a higher level, then I haven't seen anything in the proposals being floated that would help with that. But I'm not really convinced we need a lot more professional mathematicians, so much as more people just to listen to the ones we have where their work is relevant to other activities.0 -
Wasn’t there is something about the Normans invading as a result of some local dynastic squabble?Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Root, it was the 12th century.
Henry II had it invaded to try and provide some land for his last son, John (renowned for being bad at almost everything and for almost everyone).
I seem to remember something about someone being a traitor, a traitor to his prince. He brought strangers into Ireland, and they’ve been there ever, since!0 -
Doesn't matter. Given the lack of staff for the current maths curriculum, it's not going to happen in any meaningful sense.OldKingCole said:Morning all!
Can someone explain to me what Rishi meant by everybody doing some sort of maths until 18?
For example, my grandson did four A-levels one of them being physics. Would that count?
And his sister is doing three, including psychology, which I gather includes a certain amount of statistics. Would that count?
Pure displacement activity.4 -
If you are using Excel by/with/from/to/for/at/near a database then…. You are doomed.ydoethur said:
Since his own government devised the current curriculum I'm not sure that he's on to quite the winner he thinks he is. If poor maths skills are an issue, then perhaps before declaring more of the same will magically fix it he should ask whether it's wise to put failed investment fund managers in charge of curriculum development.Stuartinromford said:From the Times's coverage of Sunak's maths speech. On balance, I'm pretty sure that devising their own spreadsheets is not a good use of (Prime) Ministerial time.
Sunak, a former investment banker who devises his own spreadsheets for use in government, will argue that poor maths skills are costing the British economy.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/1b553810-dc9e-11ed-9cc2-0f7e26ed83eb?shareToken=af03f348489fc6e6d8998cc011c7495f
(Also, to what extent is not understanding spreadsheets a maths issue and to what extent an IT issue? Finally, who still uses Excel for major databases?)
Excel is a powerful, quick tool for some tasks. Quickly comparing sets of numbers, generate some simple graphs…
I quite often rough out complex calculations using Excel (sort of) as maths paper, for example0 -
This is debate - don't worry about sounding harsh, you do not.Morris_Dancer said:Good morning, everyone.
Mr. Pioneers, you are categorically wrong on a factual basis.
"In simple reality though, it IS England not Britain or UK. NornIron and Scotland both voted to remain but get overruled by England. Even now, we have a settlement in Northern Ireland which the people there support, and the English politicians are still trying to overturn it... "
Every vote counted equally in the referendum. No constituent part (England, Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland) voted as a bloc. There was no electoral college, and this was known about and not contested prior to the vote being held.
Your outrage at the 'overruling' of a minority by a majority in a referendum is absurd, and contrary to democracy and numeracy.
I apologise if that sounds harsh and I am trying to be polite, but while wailing and gnashing of teeth that the electorate voted one way is one thing, claiming somehow it was unfair for a majority vote in a referendum to count is just silly.
I take your point - this was a UK-wide referendum. And that is fine as long as you have the consent of the minority to do as the majority direct them.
The problem is that the minority did not give that consent. And we continue to suffer the political difficulties that arise from a minority having their strongly expressed opinion overruled.
I express no outrage. Merely analysis. Remember that I voted for Brexit, so I am not objecting against a result I voted for. I am highlighting a perception - backed up by an awful lot of evidence including the polls in the OP - that so many people in the majority - England - either do not care about the other home nations or would fling them off to save "Britain"/"the UK" even as they destroy it.
If people are unionists (and I am not) then care and maintenance of the union has to be a priority. We can't just impose the will of England over the others HUYFD-style. Not when part of the Union is now voting more for nationalist parties and has a legal right to a border poll in the peace treaty which binds it...1 -
Namely, minimally qualified in maths, considering they both studied PPE at university.Stuartinromford said:
Fair point. Though probably not fair to Truss, who was just as Maths-qualified as Sunak.TOPPING said:
Disagree. There's a lot of distillation of thought and contemplation when building a spreadsheet-based model. I'd be very happy to know that every PM did so. I can't see BoJo, and for sure Liz Truss, knowing where the "sum" function is.Stuartinromford said:From the Times's coverage of Sunak's maths speech. On balance, I'm pretty sure that devising their own spreadsheets is not a good use of (Prime) Ministerial time.
Sunak, a former investment banker who devises his own spreadsheets for use in government, will argue that poor maths skills are costing the British economy.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/1b553810-dc9e-11ed-9cc2-0f7e26ed83eb?shareToken=af03f348489fc6e6d8998cc011c7495f0 -
I think we have a situation repeated several times in history, most notably in the civil wars (three of them) of the 17th century, where you have separate disputes in England, Ireland and Scotland with different causes and all feeding off each other.RochdalePioneers said:
I had assumed that headbanging Brexiteers had what was best for the UK in mind. That we *had* to leave, respect the democratic "election" (it was a referendum not an election btw) etc.WillG said:"I’m not surprised by this polling, back in 2019 YouGov found members of the Conservative and UNIONIST Party, radicalised by Brexit, were prepared to destroy the Union to get their precious Brexit."
What an odd way to describe a situation where people were supportive of a democratic election result being enacted and happy to have other people to make their own democratic choices based on that. What was radical and extremist was the Remainer headbangers who were willing to overturn democracy to stay in their precious project to subjugate the peoples of Europe into a superstate.
How does that work if Norniron and/or Scotland secede as a result? You no longer have a Britain do you? Why not be honest and replace all references to Britain or the UK with England?
Because that is what the surveys show. Little Englanders not caring one way or another about the union.
This time it's the EU in England, independence in Scotland and unification in Ireland.0 -
The idea that running some numbers oneself to get a feel for the issue is “too hands on” is very much the British Problem. That Big Decisions should be taken by generalists, by instinct, because they can see the “wider picture”.TOPPING said:
Building spreadsheets involves making all those judgement calls and adjudications you mention. The value of a spreadsheet is the assumptions and thought process that goes into it, not necessarily the numbers that come out of it.Stuartinromford said:
Fair point. Though probably not fair to Truss, who was just as Maths-qualified as Sunak. However...TOPPING said:
Disagree. There's a lot of distillation of thought and contemplation when building a spreadsheet-based model. I'd be very happy to know that every PM did so. I can't see BoJo, and for sure Liz Truss, knowing where the "sum" function is.Stuartinromford said:From the Times's coverage of Sunak's maths speech. On balance, I'm pretty sure that devising their own spreadsheets is not a good use of (Prime) Ministerial time.
Sunak, a former investment banker who devises his own spreadsheets for use in government, will argue that poor maths skills are costing the British economy.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/1b553810-dc9e-11ed-9cc2-0f7e26ed83eb?shareToken=af03f348489fc6e6d8998cc011c7495f
Creating spreadsheets really is a poor use of Prime Ministerial time, which is an incredibly scarce resource. If Rishi thinks in spreadsheets, give him a full-time standby Excel bod to create spreadsheets on demand.
Secondly, if a spreadsheet is an important part of Rishi's thought process, then I'm concerned about the job he's in. A lot of what PMs have to do is about judgement calls, adjudicating between two claims that aren't easily expressed as numbers or formulas. It speaks to the image of Sunak as a promising but junior analyst who needs to let go of some things before they're ready for the Big Office.
It's the sort of thing I can imagine Gordon Brown doing.
Sunak is ultimately in charge of the nation's budget which is numbers so I am very happy that he is applying some rigorous thought to it.0 -
I doubt it was then, and at that course, but today the maths required for any form of study of economics is formidable.Chris said:
Namely, minimally qualified in maths, considering they both studied PPE at university.Stuartinromford said:
Fair point. Though probably not fair to Truss, who was just as Maths-qualified as Sunak.TOPPING said:
Disagree. There's a lot of distillation of thought and contemplation when building a spreadsheet-based model. I'd be very happy to know that every PM did so. I can't see BoJo, and for sure Liz Truss, knowing where the "sum" function is.Stuartinromford said:From the Times's coverage of Sunak's maths speech. On balance, I'm pretty sure that devising their own spreadsheets is not a good use of (Prime) Ministerial time.
Sunak, a former investment banker who devises his own spreadsheets for use in government, will argue that poor maths skills are costing the British economy.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/1b553810-dc9e-11ed-9cc2-0f7e26ed83eb?shareToken=af03f348489fc6e6d8998cc011c7495f2 -
Why should it alarm Unionists that 53% of voters in mainland GB agree with the Good Friday Agreement that whether Northern Ireland remains in the UK or not is ultimately up to the voters of Northern Ireland? TSE also fails to mention just 11% of British voters would be pleased if Northern Ireland left the UK.
The United Kingdom has also delivered Brexit as Conservative voters wanted and the UK remains together with Rishi having effectively removed the border in the Irish Sea.
Given Unionist parties combined still win more votes and seats than Nationalist parties at Stormont there is unlikely to be a border poll any time soon anyway even if SF are now largest party. Not least as the Alliance Party of NI still oppose one too0 -
I support Sunak on this, and commend his efforts, but the most likely reaction is that he's accused of being a nerd and a geek- together with some abuse on top - and people compete to wear with pride how crap they were at maths at school.TOPPING said:
Disagree. There's a lot of distillation of thought and contemplation when building a spreadsheet-based model. I'd be very happy to know that every PM did so. I can't see BoJo, and for sure Liz Truss, knowing where the "sum" function is.Stuartinromford said:From the Times's coverage of Sunak's maths speech. On balance, I'm pretty sure that devising their own spreadsheets is not a good use of (Prime) Ministerial time.
Sunak, a former investment banker who devises his own spreadsheets for use in government, will argue that poor maths skills are costing the British economy.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/1b553810-dc9e-11ed-9cc2-0f7e26ed83eb?shareToken=af03f348489fc6e6d8998cc011c7495f
We are remarkably prejudiced against maths, engineering and science in this country.3 -
Should not the unified vetting and barring system, or whatever it is called now, catch that?Malmesbury said:
Given the evidence of police officers using transfers between forces to “clean slates” and close down internal investigations, this is self evident.Nigelb said:This is not exactly a surprise, but good that it is getting reported.
Other police forces have higher rates of sexual misconduct and racism claims than Met
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/apr/17/police-forces-sexual-misconduct-racism-claims-higher-than-met
I know we have noted similar issues in other professions in the past where individuals drummed out of the profession in an area miraculously reappear either elsewhere in this country in positions in related areas or abroad.
Is this a big issue here?
0 -
on topic I agree with @Casino.
The entire Brexit vote, save for about three people, was about sticking it to The Man. Burn down my house to prove my point? You betcha, where are the Swan Vestas. Amusing and telling that the exception is Jezza - ie if forced to think not of an abstract idea (eg Scottish independence) but a concrete possibility (eg Jezza as PM) then the enthusiasm for Brexit diminishes because the shit just got real, but the sentiment is easy to understand.1 -
Chris said:
Namely, minimally qualified in maths, considering they both studied PPE at university.Stuartinromford said:
Fair point. Though probably not fair to Truss, who was just as Maths-qualified as Sunak.TOPPING said:
Disagree. There's a lot of distillation of thought and contemplation when building a spreadsheet-based model. I'd be very happy to know that every PM did so. I can't see BoJo, and for sure Liz Truss, knowing where the "sum" function is.Stuartinromford said:From the Times's coverage of Sunak's maths speech. On balance, I'm pretty sure that devising their own spreadsheets is not a good use of (Prime) Ministerial time.
Sunak, a former investment banker who devises his own spreadsheets for use in government, will argue that poor maths skills are costing the British economy.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/1b553810-dc9e-11ed-9cc2-0f7e26ed83eb?shareToken=af03f348489fc6e6d8998cc011c7495f
I thought one used a lot of simple maths in Economics. Don’t they have to be able to add and subtract?Chris said:
Namely, minimally qualified in maths, considering they both studied PPE at university.Stuartinromford said:
Fair point. Though probably not fair to Truss, who was just as Maths-qualified as Sunak.TOPPING said:
Disagree. There's a lot of distillation of thought and contemplation when building a spreadsheet-based model. I'd be very happy to know that every PM did so. I can't see BoJo, and for sure Liz Truss, knowing where the "sum" function is.Stuartinromford said:From the Times's coverage of Sunak's maths speech. On balance, I'm pretty sure that devising their own spreadsheets is not a good use of (Prime) Ministerial time.
Sunak, a former investment banker who devises his own spreadsheets for use in government, will argue that poor maths skills are costing the British economy.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/1b553810-dc9e-11ed-9cc2-0f7e26ed83eb?shareToken=af03f348489fc6e6d8998cc011c7495f
Or maybe not!0 -
We don't invest anything like as much as we need to in children's education.SouthamObserver said:
For people to learn basic maths you need more maths teachers. Good luck with that!Stuartinromford said:From the Times's coverage of Sunak's maths speech. On balance, I'm pretty sure that devising their own spreadsheets is not a good use of (Prime) Ministerial time.
Sunak, a former investment banker who devises his own spreadsheets for use in government, will argue that poor maths skills are costing the British economy.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/1b553810-dc9e-11ed-9cc2-0f7e26ed83eb?shareToken=af03f348489fc6e6d8998cc011c7495f
Unfortunately, Labour's keystone policy of vindictiveness towards private schools will only make it worse.1 -
It certainly looks like Brexit has done more for Irish unification than years of IRA violence. The Brexit positions of Sinn Féin and the DUP are somewhat ironic.RochdalePioneers said:
This is debate - don't worry about sounding harsh, you do not.Morris_Dancer said:Good morning, everyone.
Mr. Pioneers, you are categorically wrong on a factual basis.
"In simple reality though, it IS England not Britain or UK. NornIron and Scotland both voted to remain but get overruled by England. Even now, we have a settlement in Northern Ireland which the people there support, and the English politicians are still trying to overturn it... "
Every vote counted equally in the referendum. No constituent part (England, Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland) voted as a bloc. There was no electoral college, and this was known about and not contested prior to the vote being held.
Your outrage at the 'overruling' of a minority by a majority in a referendum is absurd, and contrary to democracy and numeracy.
I apologise if that sounds harsh and I am trying to be polite, but while wailing and gnashing of teeth that the electorate voted one way is one thing, claiming somehow it was unfair for a majority vote in a referendum to count is just silly.
I take your point - this was a UK-wide referendum. And that is fine as long as you have the consent of the minority to do as the majority direct them.
The problem is that the minority did not give that consent. And we continue to suffer the political difficulties that arise from a minority having their strongly expressed opinion overruled.
I express no outrage. Merely analysis. Remember that I voted for Brexit, so I am not objecting against a result I voted for. I am highlighting a perception - backed up by an awful lot of evidence including the polls in the OP - that so many people in the majority - England - either do not care about the other home nations or would fling them off to save "Britain"/"the UK" even as they destroy it.
If people are unionists (and I am not) then care and maintenance of the union has to be a priority. We can't just impose the will of England over the others HUYFD-style. Not when part of the Union is now voting more for nationalist parties and has a legal right to a border poll in the peace treaty which binds it...0 -
We sneer at most intellectual, educational, or artistic achievement.Casino_Royale said:
I support Sunak on this, and commend his efforts, but the most likely reaction is that he's accused of being a nerd and a geek- together with some abuse on top - and people compete to wear with pride how crap they were at maths at school.TOPPING said:
Disagree. There's a lot of distillation of thought and contemplation when building a spreadsheet-based model. I'd be very happy to know that every PM did so. I can't see BoJo, and for sure Liz Truss, knowing where the "sum" function is.Stuartinromford said:From the Times's coverage of Sunak's maths speech. On balance, I'm pretty sure that devising their own spreadsheets is not a good use of (Prime) Ministerial time.
Sunak, a former investment banker who devises his own spreadsheets for use in government, will argue that poor maths skills are costing the British economy.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/1b553810-dc9e-11ed-9cc2-0f7e26ed83eb?shareToken=af03f348489fc6e6d8998cc011c7495f
We are remarkably prejudiced against maths, engineering and science in this country.
"Too clever by half" is one of the most damning putdowns an Englishman can use about another.3 -
Well elided and a classic HYUFD post. Just who was it who put the border in the Irish Sea? None other than Brexit champion you-know-who.HYUFD said:Why should it alarm Unionists that 53% of voters in mainland GB agree with the Good Friday Agreement that whether Northern Ireland remains in the UK or not is ultimately up to the voters of Northern Ireland? TSE also fails to mention just 11% of British voters would be pleased if Northern Ireland left the UK.
The United Kingdom has also delivered Brexit as Conservative voters wanted and the UK remains together with Rishi having effectively removed the border in the Irish Sea anyway.
Given Unionist parties combined still win more votes and seats than Nationalist parties at Stormont there is unlikely to be a border poll any time soon anyway even if SF are now largest party. Not least as the Alliance Party of NI still oppose one too
0 -
King Cole, that might have been the case, not sure. Sounds a bit like Vortigern inviting in the Angles and Saxons. Or the Achaeans inviting the Romans.
Mr. Pioneers, but by those terms you effectively ignore the vote so long as the minority refuse to concede defeat.
If we'd voted 52% to Remain, should we have left had the 48% of Leavers refused to consent (to use your term)?
Education: just on maths, I remember Labour's key skills tosh (maths, English, IT, I think). I was spared maths as I took it for A-level but the others were utterly useless.0 -
Ah, that old nonsense again.Heathener said:I don't really consider Northern Ireland to be part of the UK.
Sorry if that's offensive to unionists but I just don't. It's Ireland, part of a separate island. It's when, not if, they unite.
Haiti and the Dominican Republic must inevitably unite because they are the same island? The SNP should ignore 40-45% wanting independence because Britain is an island and so must always be united? Puerto Rico and Hawaii should not be in the USA because they are separate islands to the mainland? Corsica cannot be part of France since France isn't an island, so its separate?
There are plenty of good reasons why the island of Ireland might or should unify politically. That it should be because it's an island is the dumbest possible reason. You could equally claim Ireland and Britain should reunite because were part of the same island group.
Islands are allowed to be divided politically, and it can be the appropriate choice. The question is whether it is right in this case, to which the GB public are pretty meh about.4 -
The interesting thing being that it was never a surprise. A land border would never have been considered so there was only one place it could ever go was in the Irish Sea with all the political implications for unification that that would bring and so it turned out.FF43 said:
It certainly looks like Brexit has done more for Irish unification than years of IRA violence. The Brexit positions of Sinn Féin and the DUP are somewhat ironic.RochdalePioneers said:
This is debate - don't worry about sounding harsh, you do not.Morris_Dancer said:Good morning, everyone.
Mr. Pioneers, you are categorically wrong on a factual basis.
"In simple reality though, it IS England not Britain or UK. NornIron and Scotland both voted to remain but get overruled by England. Even now, we have a settlement in Northern Ireland which the people there support, and the English politicians are still trying to overturn it... "
Every vote counted equally in the referendum. No constituent part (England, Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland) voted as a bloc. There was no electoral college, and this was known about and not contested prior to the vote being held.
Your outrage at the 'overruling' of a minority by a majority in a referendum is absurd, and contrary to democracy and numeracy.
I apologise if that sounds harsh and I am trying to be polite, but while wailing and gnashing of teeth that the electorate voted one way is one thing, claiming somehow it was unfair for a majority vote in a referendum to count is just silly.
I take your point - this was a UK-wide referendum. And that is fine as long as you have the consent of the minority to do as the majority direct them.
The problem is that the minority did not give that consent. And we continue to suffer the political difficulties that arise from a minority having their strongly expressed opinion overruled.
I express no outrage. Merely analysis. Remember that I voted for Brexit, so I am not objecting against a result I voted for. I am highlighting a perception - backed up by an awful lot of evidence including the polls in the OP - that so many people in the majority - England - either do not care about the other home nations or would fling them off to save "Britain"/"the UK" even as they destroy it.
If people are unionists (and I am not) then care and maintenance of the union has to be a priority. We can't just impose the will of England over the others HUYFD-style. Not when part of the Union is now voting more for nationalist parties and has a legal right to a border poll in the peace treaty which binds it...0 -
The French have always been keener on intellectuals than the English, the Germans and East Asians better at manufacturing and Maths. Our strengths are in finance and law. However we still have plenty of creative industry around London and intellectuals in our great universities and plenty of hi tech around Cambridge in particularTOPPING said:
We sneer at most intellectual, educational, or artistic achievement.Casino_Royale said:
I support Sunak on this, and commend his efforts, but the most likely reaction is that he's accused of being a nerd and a geek- together with some abuse on top - and people compete to wear with pride how crap they were at maths at school.TOPPING said:
Disagree. There's a lot of distillation of thought and contemplation when building a spreadsheet-based model. I'd be very happy to know that every PM did so. I can't see BoJo, and for sure Liz Truss, knowing where the "sum" function is.Stuartinromford said:From the Times's coverage of Sunak's maths speech. On balance, I'm pretty sure that devising their own spreadsheets is not a good use of (Prime) Ministerial time.
Sunak, a former investment banker who devises his own spreadsheets for use in government, will argue that poor maths skills are costing the British economy.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/1b553810-dc9e-11ed-9cc2-0f7e26ed83eb?shareToken=af03f348489fc6e6d8998cc011c7495f
We are remarkably prejudiced against maths, engineering and science in this country.
"Too clever by half" is one of the most damning putdowns an Englishman can use about another.0 -
.
Yes Cyprus is a perfect example of partitionkle4 said:
Ah, that old nonsense again.Heathener said:I don't really consider Northern Ireland to be part of the UK.
Sorry if that's offensive to unionists but I just don't. It's Ireland, part of a separate island. It's when, not if, they unite.
Haiti and the Dominican Republic must inevitably unite because they are the same island? The SNP should ignore 40-45% wanting independence because Britain is an island and so must always be united? Puerto Rico and Hawaii should not be in the USA because they are separate islands to the mainland? Corsica cannot be part of France since France isn't an island, so its separate?
There are plenty of good reasons why the island of Ireland might or should unify politically. That it should be because it's an island is the dumbest possible reason. You could equally claim Ireland and Britain should reunite because were part of the same island group.
Islands are allowed to be divided politically, and it can be the appropriate choice. The question is whether it is right in this case, to which the GB public are pretty meh about.0 -
Our strengths are old fashioned (eg merchant banking) finance. Nowadays you are more likely to find as many if not moreAmericans, French, Asian (south and east) people pricing up exotic products as east end barrow boys or poshos with stripey shirts selling 50 at 20 shag. You also get the bright northern kid made good in there as well from time to time.HYUFD said:
The French have always been keener on intellectuals than the English, the Germans and East Asians better at manufacturing and Maths. Our strengths are in finance and law. However we still have plenty of creative industry around London and intellectuals in our great universities and plenty of hi tech around Cambridge in particularTOPPING said:
We sneer at most intellectual, educational, or artistic achievement.Casino_Royale said:
I support Sunak on this, and commend his efforts, but the most likely reaction is that he's accused of being a nerd and a geek- together with some abuse on top - and people compete to wear with pride how crap they were at maths at school.TOPPING said:
Disagree. There's a lot of distillation of thought and contemplation when building a spreadsheet-based model. I'd be very happy to know that every PM did so. I can't see BoJo, and for sure Liz Truss, knowing where the "sum" function is.Stuartinromford said:From the Times's coverage of Sunak's maths speech. On balance, I'm pretty sure that devising their own spreadsheets is not a good use of (Prime) Ministerial time.
Sunak, a former investment banker who devises his own spreadsheets for use in government, will argue that poor maths skills are costing the British economy.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/1b553810-dc9e-11ed-9cc2-0f7e26ed83eb?shareToken=af03f348489fc6e6d8998cc011c7495f
We are remarkably prejudiced against maths, engineering and science in this country.
"Too clever by half" is one of the most damning putdowns an Englishman can use about another.0 -
I would think a sensible option is that this isn’t about everyone understanding pure maths, algebra etc but constantly improving mathematical mindsets in relation to how maths applies to people in day to day life and longer term decision making.OldKingCole said:Morning all!
Can someone explain to me what Rishi meant by everybody doing some sort of maths until 18?
For example, my grandson did four A-levels one of them being physics. Would that count?
And his sister is doing three, including psychology, which I gather includes a certain amount of statistics. Would that count?
I could see a situation where, and thanks to AI perhaps, you could have a number of programs focussed on keeping people’s numeracy active, dealing with basic economic considerations such as applying maths to tax, mortgages, cost of living etc.
These could all be online like the theory test for driving so that each pupil has access to the system (maybe with facial recognition to avoid getting others to take for you) and each module has a learning pack online followed by online testing that doesn’t require teacher marking.
You could have it so that you cannot move on to next module until you have passed your current one and you cannot be considered to have completed your education until you have passed modules.
Probably completely fantastical but I can see how improving practical maths using current tech would be very beneficial to people as individuals and the country without needing huge amounts of human oversight.
Edit to add, one of my nephews was applying for a job in a financial services company (having chosen not to go to university) and prior to interview he had to complete their online test which was questions which were maths problems which he would encounter at work. He had the learning pack online and a series of test papers and a time limit to complete and submit his actual online test. So if an offshore fin services provider can have something suitable created I would hope a government could manage it.0 -
Has it? In the 2015 general election in Northern Ireland before the EU referendum the DUP and UUP combined got 41% and SF and the SDLP combined got 38%.FF43 said:
It certainly looks like Brexit has done more for Irish unification than years of IRA violence. The Brexit positions of Sinn Féin and the DUP are somewhat ironic.RochdalePioneers said:
This is debate - don't worry about sounding harsh, you do not.Morris_Dancer said:Good morning, everyone.
Mr. Pioneers, you are categorically wrong on a factual basis.
"In simple reality though, it IS England not Britain or UK. NornIron and Scotland both voted to remain but get overruled by England. Even now, we have a settlement in Northern Ireland which the people there support, and the English politicians are still trying to overturn it... "
Every vote counted equally in the referendum. No constituent part (England, Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland) voted as a bloc. There was no electoral college, and this was known about and not contested prior to the vote being held.
Your outrage at the 'overruling' of a minority by a majority in a referendum is absurd, and contrary to democracy and numeracy.
I apologise if that sounds harsh and I am trying to be polite, but while wailing and gnashing of teeth that the electorate voted one way is one thing, claiming somehow it was unfair for a majority vote in a referendum to count is just silly.
I take your point - this was a UK-wide referendum. And that is fine as long as you have the consent of the minority to do as the majority direct them.
The problem is that the minority did not give that consent. And we continue to suffer the political difficulties that arise from a minority having their strongly expressed opinion overruled.
I express no outrage. Merely analysis. Remember that I voted for Brexit, so I am not objecting against a result I voted for. I am highlighting a perception - backed up by an awful lot of evidence including the polls in the OP - that so many people in the majority - England - either do not care about the other home nations or would fling them off to save "Britain"/"the UK" even as they destroy it.
If people are unionists (and I am not) then care and maintenance of the union has to be a priority. We can't just impose the will of England over the others HUYFD-style. Not when part of the Union is now voting more for nationalist parties and has a legal right to a border poll in the peace treaty which binds it...
In the 2019 general election after Leave won the EU referendum the DUP and UUP combined got 41% and SF and the SDLP combined got 38%.
So it has actually made sod all difference0 -
Back to the Grand National - unsurprisingly the BHA now fighting a strong rearguard action to assure people of the safety of in particular jumps racing. At least, @Leon and others please note, they got part of their retaliation in first and shored up their flank by changing the whip rules before the spotlight was shone on racing as a whole this last weekend.0
-
Because there hasn't been an assembly election where SF won...HYUFD said:
Has it? In the 2015 general election in Northern Ireland before the EU referendum the DUP and UUP combined got 41% and SF and the SDLP combined got 38%.FF43 said:
It certainly looks like Brexit has done more for Irish unification than years of IRA violence. The Brexit positions of Sinn Féin and the DUP are somewhat ironic.RochdalePioneers said:
This is debate - don't worry about sounding harsh, you do not.Morris_Dancer said:Good morning, everyone.
Mr. Pioneers, you are categorically wrong on a factual basis.
"In simple reality though, it IS England not Britain or UK. NornIron and Scotland both voted to remain but get overruled by England. Even now, we have a settlement in Northern Ireland which the people there support, and the English politicians are still trying to overturn it... "
Every vote counted equally in the referendum. No constituent part (England, Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland) voted as a bloc. There was no electoral college, and this was known about and not contested prior to the vote being held.
Your outrage at the 'overruling' of a minority by a majority in a referendum is absurd, and contrary to democracy and numeracy.
I apologise if that sounds harsh and I am trying to be polite, but while wailing and gnashing of teeth that the electorate voted one way is one thing, claiming somehow it was unfair for a majority vote in a referendum to count is just silly.
I take your point - this was a UK-wide referendum. And that is fine as long as you have the consent of the minority to do as the majority direct them.
The problem is that the minority did not give that consent. And we continue to suffer the political difficulties that arise from a minority having their strongly expressed opinion overruled.
I express no outrage. Merely analysis. Remember that I voted for Brexit, so I am not objecting against a result I voted for. I am highlighting a perception - backed up by an awful lot of evidence including the polls in the OP - that so many people in the majority - England - either do not care about the other home nations or would fling them off to save "Britain"/"the UK" even as they destroy it.
If people are unionists (and I am not) then care and maintenance of the union has to be a priority. We can't just impose the will of England over the others HUYFD-style. Not when part of the Union is now voting more for nationalist parties and has a legal right to a border poll in the peace treaty which binds it...
In the 2019 general election after Leave won the EU referendum the DUP and UUP combined got 41% and SF and the SDLP combined got 38%.
So it has actually made sod all difference0 -
Interestingly continued study of some Maths beyond 16 is a feature of post 16 education in most European countries I believe. The IB is increasingly popular here - my old school has been doing it since the 1990s with huge success. It's rather sad to see so many on here poopooing the idea with so little reflection.Chris said:
I think the whole idea is idiotic.SouthamObserver said:
For people to learn basic maths you need more maths teachers. Good luck with that!Stuartinromford said:From the Times's coverage of Sunak's maths speech. On balance, I'm pretty sure that devising their own spreadsheets is not a good use of (Prime) Ministerial time.
Sunak, a former investment banker who devises his own spreadsheets for use in government, will argue that poor maths skills are costing the British economy.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/1b553810-dc9e-11ed-9cc2-0f7e26ed83eb?shareToken=af03f348489fc6e6d8998cc011c7495f
If it's a matter of basic numeracy, it should be possible to teach that well before the old school leaving age, and making it compulsory until 18 and devising new qualifications are just political gimmicks springing from a fundamental lack of understanding. And quite frankly I think some people do have a kind of mental block where maths and even arithmetic are concerned, and saying that shouldn't be socially acceptable is no help at all.
If it's a matter of attracting more people to study proper maths at a higher level, then I haven't seen anything in the proposals being floated that would help with that. But I'm not really convinced we need a lot more professional mathematicians, so much as more people just to listen to the ones we have where their work is relevant to other activities.1 -
It has normalised the idea of a physical and administrative border between GB and NI. It forced UK politicians do make a distinction between GB and NI.HYUFD said:
Has it? In the 2015 general election in Northern Ireland before the EU referendum the DUP and UUP combined got 41% and SF and the SDLP combined got 38%.FF43 said:
It certainly looks like Brexit has done more for Irish unification than years of IRA violence. The Brexit positions of Sinn Féin and the DUP are somewhat ironic.RochdalePioneers said:
This is debate - don't worry about sounding harsh, you do not.Morris_Dancer said:Good morning, everyone.
Mr. Pioneers, you are categorically wrong on a factual basis.
"In simple reality though, it IS England not Britain or UK. NornIron and Scotland both voted to remain but get overruled by England. Even now, we have a settlement in Northern Ireland which the people there support, and the English politicians are still trying to overturn it... "
Every vote counted equally in the referendum. No constituent part (England, Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland) voted as a bloc. There was no electoral college, and this was known about and not contested prior to the vote being held.
Your outrage at the 'overruling' of a minority by a majority in a referendum is absurd, and contrary to democracy and numeracy.
I apologise if that sounds harsh and I am trying to be polite, but while wailing and gnashing of teeth that the electorate voted one way is one thing, claiming somehow it was unfair for a majority vote in a referendum to count is just silly.
I take your point - this was a UK-wide referendum. And that is fine as long as you have the consent of the minority to do as the majority direct them.
The problem is that the minority did not give that consent. And we continue to suffer the political difficulties that arise from a minority having their strongly expressed opinion overruled.
I express no outrage. Merely analysis. Remember that I voted for Brexit, so I am not objecting against a result I voted for. I am highlighting a perception - backed up by an awful lot of evidence including the polls in the OP - that so many people in the majority - England - either do not care about the other home nations or would fling them off to save "Britain"/"the UK" even as they destroy it.
If people are unionists (and I am not) then care and maintenance of the union has to be a priority. We can't just impose the will of England over the others HUYFD-style. Not when part of the Union is now voting more for nationalist parties and has a legal right to a border poll in the peace treaty which binds it...
In the 2019 general election after Leave won the EU referendum the DUP and UUP combined got 41% and SF and the SDLP combined got 38%.
So it has actually made sod all difference
That is quite a difference and will percolate through the populations as time goes on.
I wouldn't judge it by the 2019 general election.0 -
I had a glance over my lad's shoulder the other day while he was doing some revision for his "collections" (Oxford-speak for start of term exams) in Economics and Management. It was all partial differential equations and matrices. As a Physics graduate, I was a little surprised by the level of maths used in Economics. And her certainly knows his way round a spreadsheet.OldKingCole said:Chris said:
Namely, minimally qualified in maths, considering they both studied PPE at university.Stuartinromford said:
Fair point. Though probably not fair to Truss, who was just as Maths-qualified as Sunak.TOPPING said:
Disagree. There's a lot of distillation of thought and contemplation when building a spreadsheet-based model. I'd be very happy to know that every PM did so. I can't see BoJo, and for sure Liz Truss, knowing where the "sum" function is.Stuartinromford said:From the Times's coverage of Sunak's maths speech. On balance, I'm pretty sure that devising their own spreadsheets is not a good use of (Prime) Ministerial time.
Sunak, a former investment banker who devises his own spreadsheets for use in government, will argue that poor maths skills are costing the British economy.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/1b553810-dc9e-11ed-9cc2-0f7e26ed83eb?shareToken=af03f348489fc6e6d8998cc011c7495f
I thought one used a lot of simple maths in Economics. Don’t they have to be able to add and subtract?Chris said:
Namely, minimally qualified in maths, considering they both studied PPE at university.Stuartinromford said:
Fair point. Though probably not fair to Truss, who was just as Maths-qualified as Sunak.TOPPING said:
Disagree. There's a lot of distillation of thought and contemplation when building a spreadsheet-based model. I'd be very happy to know that every PM did so. I can't see BoJo, and for sure Liz Truss, knowing where the "sum" function is.Stuartinromford said:From the Times's coverage of Sunak's maths speech. On balance, I'm pretty sure that devising their own spreadsheets is not a good use of (Prime) Ministerial time.
Sunak, a former investment banker who devises his own spreadsheets for use in government, will argue that poor maths skills are costing the British economy.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/1b553810-dc9e-11ed-9cc2-0f7e26ed83eb?shareToken=af03f348489fc6e6d8998cc011c7495f
Or maybe not!3 -
I think you would find the SNP managers are expert at reading and manipulating them.Foxy said:
I am fairly sure that Truss was good at Maths, so probably could. It was her complete lack of people skills that was her problem.TOPPING said:
Disagree. There's a lot of distillation of thought and contemplation when building a spreadsheet-based model. I'd be very happy to know that every PM did so. I can't see BoJo, and for sure Liz Truss, knowing where the "sum" function is.Stuartinromford said:From the Times's coverage of Sunak's maths speech. On balance, I'm pretty sure that devising their own spreadsheets is not a good use of (Prime) Ministerial time.
Sunak, a former investment banker who devises his own spreadsheets for use in government, will argue that poor maths skills are costing the British economy.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/1b553810-dc9e-11ed-9cc2-0f7e26ed83eb?shareToken=af03f348489fc6e6d8998cc011c7495f
Spreadsheet skills are key to management of course, though far from all managers can read one. Notably the SNP managers for example.1 -
Promoting those of underwhelming academic gift through to the highest positions in society because their parents could afford astronomical school fees or cramming for the 11 plus tuition to get their offspring into grammar school is at the core of the issue. It's nothing to do with "vindictiveness towards private education".Casino_Royale said:
We don't invest anything like as much as we need to in children's education.SouthamObserver said:
For people to learn basic maths you need more maths teachers. Good luck with that!Stuartinromford said:From the Times's coverage of Sunak's maths speech. On balance, I'm pretty sure that devising their own spreadsheets is not a good use of (Prime) Ministerial time.
Sunak, a former investment banker who devises his own spreadsheets for use in government, will argue that poor maths skills are costing the British economy.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/1b553810-dc9e-11ed-9cc2-0f7e26ed83eb?shareToken=af03f348489fc6e6d8998cc011c7495f
Unfortunately, Labour's keystone policy of vindictiveness towards private schools will only make it worse.
As far as I am concerned you can keep your private schools, just force them to provide a decent percentage of bursaries to the genuinely gifted but genuinely poor. Grammar schools on the other hand, be rid. I don't want my tax pounds paying for social climbers. If parents want what they consider to be an elite education they can pay for it themselves, including VAT. I don't want to pay for them.
Fund world beating education provision for all, and we'd leave Germany standing.
Speculate to accumulate.1 -
How will it make it worse? The money raised by putting VAT on private school fees will be used to increase funding for the schools that 93% of kids go to. Since those schools are starved of resources I would assume that each £1 spent there would have more incremental benefit on the overall quality of educational outcomes. At state schools the money would be spent on more teachers or new books, at private schools it would just be a new lighting system at the school theatre, more manicuring of the school's eighth rugby pitch or an extra school cricket trip to the Caribbean.Casino_Royale said:
We don't invest anything like as much as we need to in children's education.SouthamObserver said:
For people to learn basic maths you need more maths teachers. Good luck with that!Stuartinromford said:From the Times's coverage of Sunak's maths speech. On balance, I'm pretty sure that devising their own spreadsheets is not a good use of (Prime) Ministerial time.
Sunak, a former investment banker who devises his own spreadsheets for use in government, will argue that poor maths skills are costing the British economy.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/1b553810-dc9e-11ed-9cc2-0f7e26ed83eb?shareToken=af03f348489fc6e6d8998cc011c7495f
Unfortunately, Labour's keystone policy of vindictiveness towards private schools will only make it worse.4
