Yes, they're charities and education is charitable and thus not liable to VAT.
If they're going to be gone after, then there's a lot more charities that seek to exploit charitable status to make money that could be gone after too.
Naah, different point. They are exempt because the VAT Act says so
The VAT Act 1994, Schedule 9, Group 6 provides exemption for the provision of education, vocational training and closely-related goods and services.
Presumably then, it would be hard to add VAT to school fees without also impacting university tuition fees and everything else covered by the same exemption?
Worse - it's gold cans, which is caffeine free Diet Coke. Which completely misses all the point of Coke.
Caffeine free Diet Coke? I drink Diet Coke as I don't want to rot my teeth, but caffeine free . . . can't respect that.
Are you as kind to your teeth as you think? I'm no @turbotubbs but surely all fizzy drinks are acidic by virtue of the carbon dioxide dissolved in water, and probably citric acid for fruit-flavoured drinks, and phosphoric acid for full-fat Coke so probably Diet Coke as well. (Does pb have its own dentist? I vaguely think we used to.)
It is all total garbage. Why anyone would drink it is beyond me.
People drink it because they like it, and are thirsty.
"The Pentagon is considering a Boeing proposal to supply Ukraine with [the 150 km range] Ground-Launched Small Diameter Bomb (GLSDB) ... It combines the GBU-39 SDB with the M26 rocket motor ... GLSDB could be delivered as early as spring 2023." https://mobile.twitter.com/GuyPlopsky/status/1597162415405531136
Uses stockpiled components, so plenty available, and they are cheap.
Sounds like a proposal designed to lure the Kremlin back to the negotiating table.
Sounds more like a proposal to make a shitload of money for Boeing.
Worse - it's gold cans, which is caffeine free Diet Coke. Which completely misses all the point of Coke.
Caffeine free Diet Coke? I drink Diet Coke as I don't want to rot my teeth, but caffeine free . . . can't respect that.
Are you as kind to your teeth as you think? I'm no @turbotubbs but surely all fizzy drinks are acidic by virtue of the carbon dioxide dissolved in water, and probably citric acid for fruit-flavoured drinks, and phosphoric acid for full-fat Coke so probably Diet Coke as well. (Does pb have its own dentist? I vaguely think we used to.)
It is all total garbage. Why anyone would drink it is beyond me.
People drink it because they like it, and are thirsty.
This is a very bad decision. https://mobile.twitter.com/mattsteinglass/status/1597154761618300929 Extremely troubling ruling by the European Court of Justice will be welcomed by corrupt oligarchs everywhere. They can hide their ownership of shell companies again, claiming “privacy” rights. via @FT
Article 8 strikes again. It is turning the ECHR into a charter for fraudsters, illegal migrants, tax evaders and general criminals looking to hide their criminality. When the convention was written it didn't envisage today's hyper connected world, people in Europe treat reform of it in the same way Americans treat reform of the US constitution. Both are outdated and need significant reform to reflect the modern era. The ECJ it bound by the charter, it's a poor decision but I don't see that they had any choice. What's worrying is that these same dodgy oligarchs will now use that decision to get a similar ruling in the UK and the Supreme Court will be bound by the same bits of the charter so their illicit money is forever hidden and they can continue to accumulate it.
The problem is the ECJ has no accountability. In the UK we have a system of checks and balances. The courts ensure politicians operate by the law. But the politicians can also rewrite the law when it is interpreted to perverse ends. And if they do that in appropriately, they will be voted out of office. The ECJ however is far beyond the reach of parliament or democracy.
Worse - it's gold cans, which is caffeine free Diet Coke. Which completely misses all the point of Coke.
Caffeine free Diet Coke? I drink Diet Coke as I don't want to rot my teeth, but caffeine free . . . can't respect that.
Are you as kind to your teeth as you think? I'm no @turbotubbs but surely all fizzy drinks are acidic by virtue of the carbon dioxide dissolved in water, and probably citric acid for fruit-flavoured drinks, and phosphoric acid for full-fat Coke so probably Diet Coke as well. (Does pb have its own dentist? I vaguely think we used to.)
It is all total garbage. Why anyone would drink it is beyond me.
People drink it because they like it, and are thirsty.
Water is available.
Water is boring and doesn't taste good.
Rice and beans are available, doesn't mean that's all people want to eat.
Worse - it's gold cans, which is caffeine free Diet Coke. Which completely misses all the point of Coke.
Caffeine free Diet Coke? I drink Diet Coke as I don't want to rot my teeth, but caffeine free . . . can't respect that.
Are you as kind to your teeth as you think? I'm no @turbotubbs but surely all fizzy drinks are acidic by virtue of the carbon dioxide dissolved in water, and probably citric acid for fruit-flavoured drinks, and phosphoric acid for full-fat Coke so probably Diet Coke as well. (Does pb have its own dentist? I vaguely think we used to.)
It is all total garbage. Why anyone would drink it is beyond me.
People drink it because they like it, and are thirsty.
Water is available.
Dost thou think because thou art virtuous there shall be no more cakes and ale?
Yes, by Saint Anne, and ginger shall be hot i' th' mouth too.
Petrol prices are currently similar to when oil was ~£86 per barrel, today they have fallen to £67 per barrel, this implies garages are padding their margins by about 15-17%, while the CMA fannies about the total destruction of competition among petrol forecourts has meant rip off prices for drivers and haulage firms. The decision to allow Asda to be taken over and then the transfer of Asda garages to the parent has been a complete disaster for the nation. It has, IMO, been one of the major causes of fuel price inflation which has led to higher inflation rates than elsewhere in Europe where the market still functions normally. It's time for the government to step in and break up the sector.
For those of us genuinely interested in what happened, it's quite fascinating to watch as experts who were originally leaning towards lab escape came around to zoonosis.
There were three who were most Lab Leak (Edward Holmes (self-described as 70/30 in favour of lab), Farrar ("50/50") and Kristian Anderson ("60/40")). Rather interestingly, two of those were lead authors on the article they got published in February 2020, which seems a pretty fair way of doing it.
You get to see them all considering hypotheses, ruling out deliberate bioengineering (wherever it came about, it evolved in the presence of an immune system), then considering deliberate "pass through" in lab animals (which could reconcile that). However, they then concluded that was unlikely, but also insisted in including it as a potential consideration in the article, even if only to show it had been seriously considered (there was a discussion on whether they'd spark off conspiracy theorists by including it, but insisted they had to cover it).
All of the three who had been leaning lab-leak have ended up coming down very firmly on the zoonosis side. To the point where the lab-leakers of the present dismiss them immediately by ad hominem.
I personally find it encouraging that not only did they very seriously consider it (and have those who most believed it plausible to lead the papers on it), but that my belief it was initially plausible wasn't completely out there.
It does end up damaging a nice story (simple - even simplistic - with convenient baddies and a two minute hate), but on the flip side, it does forewarn us of potential future SARS-like viruses (especially with the recent uncovering of so many bat coronaviruses: https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.11.23.517609v1 )
I’m sorry, but this cannot pass. Here is your hero Edward Holmes on Twitter in May 2020. He’s just a fucking liar who does most of his work in China. Enough
Coming immediately on the heels of "To the point where the lab-leakers of the present dismiss them immediately by ad hominem," that's actively funny.
You are a victim of the fallacy that ad hominem arguments are automatically fallacious. In some circumstances, say being presented with an investment proposal by Bernie Madoff, they are valid, legitimate and compelling. Or, say, Farrar describing the lab security at Wuhan as "wild west."
My issue is that they never address the questions, simply coming up with these ad hominems.
"How did you get multiple independent releases into the wet market and only the wet market and none of the other more likely super-spreader sites in Wuhan?" doesn't really get answered by ad hominems. Or provide much illumination to those who want to know what really happened.
You still haven’t explained why Jeremy Farrar went from “lab leak is 50/50” to “lab leak is evil conspiracy theory” in 18 days
I am answered. Thank you. I never considered that as how it happened.
It’s all falling apart I’m afraid. One of the main scientists who has been pushing the wet market hypothesis for three years - she’s in those emails - has finally backtracked. Remember, she’s been claiming that “lab leak is debunked” all this time.
Her then:
Her now:
You don't get it.
I can be argued around to lab leak. Just get the key questions answered. I don't care about "he said, she said, he said." I don't care that over eighteen days of discussion, people came around from believing it plausible to seeing it as implausible (albeit those eighteen days of discussion might provide a clue as to why). Any more than I care that Isaac Newton was an arsehole who was a twat to Hooke, who insisted Leibniz stole his calculus (when Leibniz obviously came up with it first), and who firmly believed in alchemy, turning base metals into gold, and the like: his Laws of Motion either work or do not work (and they work).
My big issue is the one I've outlined, and all the "he said this at this point and that at that point," or "She was present when it was said to be debunked and has recently said simply she doesn't see that the evidence weighs in favour of it."
None of that answers the question or questions. If they're plausibly answered, then you can get me around.
Farrar didn’t change his mind. He made a ridiculous double back body flip from “50/50” to “conspiracy theory”. You’re too smart not to see the insanity of this
Or maybe you aren’t that smart, and you’re just good with numbers
But I do not wish to be unkind and you’ve been a great source on Covid, and I’ll ascribe your myopia to wilful naivety with good intentions. You like science and scientists and hate the idea they might have caused a pandemic so it’s clouding your judgement. Hey Ho
Now I must get to my flints. Good day
You are ascribing characteristics to Andy that you have no idea that he has and slightly insulting ones at that. Scientists tend to rely on evidence so don't generally have as much clouded judgement compared to the general population (although it happens obviously). It seems to me he would just prefer to see some facts and not nonsense stuff like he describes as 'he said, she said, he said' which tends to be the line of people putting forward conspiracies.
How about trying not to do this stuff and present evidence.
I have no idea which source is correct, but my judgement IS often clouded when I see stuff like 'he said, she said' from someone who often comes out with conspiracies.
"Scientists tend to rely on evidence" is utter gibberish for starters. What job do you do that doesn't? Even if you are unemployed, life is a pretty evidence based enterprise anyway (water is falling on my head; this evidence of rain prompts me to put my umbrella up.) He is treating the non lab leak theory as the default from which he needs to be swayed, which is not an evidence-based position, and you are actually doing he said, she said stuff under the illusion that you are criticising it, in a beautiful example of circular logic.
That has to be one of the most bonkers posts I have ever seen.
Starting with the statement 'Scientists tend to rely on evidence is utter gibberish for starters'. Great start.
Then suggesting that everyone does. No they don't. Scientist rely on evidence much more than the rest of people do in every day life. It is sort of what science is. In everyday life we jump to conclusions all the time and there are masses of people out there who just ignore evidence completely. Astrologers for instance and of course conspiracy theories rely on ignoring evidence.
And nowhere did I use circular logic and nowhere did I rely on 'he says, she says'. God knows where you got that from.
"which tends to be the line of people putting forward conspiracy theories" is, whether you like it or not, an ad hominem argument based on what "he said."
Saying that "In everyday life we jump to conclusions all the time and there are masses of people out there who just ignore evidence completely" is either ad hominem (Leon is in your view one of these people) or irrelevant (he is not.)
I note you dodge the question of what your evidence free occupation actually is.
I'm sorry this is really nonsense.
a) Are you really suggesting that stating that there are people putting forward conspiracy theories are not basing them on evidence is at all controversial. It is not an ad hominem attack and I notice you regularly accuse people of making such attacks when they are not, but are attacking the argument.
b) Similarly saying in everyday life we jump to conclusions all the time and there are masses of people out there who just ignore evidence completely is also a non controversial statement and also not an ad hominem attack. Note the word 'we' and 'masses of people' which rather gives the game away that it wasn't a personal attack.
c) Leon is not one of these people nor is he irrelevant, but even he would admit he does come out with conspiracy theories. It is his trademark for goodness sake. Have you read many of his posts on aliens?
d) I didn't answer the question about the job as it is irrelevant whether I do an evidence based job at all. The point is many people do believe things not based upon evidence (religion, astrology, gut feelings, etc, etc) and scientist when researching stuff by and large do base their research on evidence. And that is the point and the only point being made.
e) FYI in terms of my job, I am retired. I ran my own business organising large organisations into commercial pressure groups, before that I worked for one of the largest computer companies and before that I worked for one of the largest consultancies. My degree is in Mathematics and I specialised in Logic, so I do rather know whether I am applying a circular argument or whether I am arguing a statement, stating a fact or making a personal attack thank you very much.
You must have dozed off in a few of the lectures, then. Your bizarre claim that scientists have privileged access to the concept of evidence is ad hominem in its purest form, the Platonic ideal of ad hominem: Never mind the ARGUMENT, concentrate on the fact that the MAN ADVANCING IT is a SCIENTIST, do you hear?
OK you are now just making stuff up. At no point did I say 'scientists have a privileged access to the concept of evidence'. Where the hell did you get that from? However what I did say (paraphrasing) is that scientists tend to be more evidenced based than astrologers, people who have gut feelings, people who believe in conspiracies. And if that is not blindingly obvious to you, then you are a lost cause.
Also at no point did I say you should concentrate on the man advancing the argument and not the argument. Again you are just making that up as well.
Please stop putting words into my mouth that I did not say.
One wonders if you have taken a bet as to how many times you can post 'ad hominem' today.
"At no point did I say 'scientists have a privileged access to the concept of evidence'. Where the hell did you get that from?"
"Scientists tend to rely on evidence so don't generally have as much clouded judgement compared to the general population."
Do you have that multiple personality thing going on?
And how is what I said not true (scientists do generally rely on evidence more than the average person in what they do) and how is it the same as 'scientist have a privileged access to the concept of evidence' (which you said I said and which I didn't)
Are you denying scientist generally are more evidence based than astrologers, people with gut feelings and conspiracy theorists which is what I said. You are deluded if you do.
You are rather coming over as someone who failed in science and are rather envious of those that haven't.
And also I note in the last couple of posts you have 'attacked the man' so a hypocrite to boot.
Worse - it's gold cans, which is caffeine free Diet Coke. Which completely misses all the point of Coke.
Caffeine free Diet Coke? I drink Diet Coke as I don't want to rot my teeth, but caffeine free . . . can't respect that.
Are you as kind to your teeth as you think? I'm no @turbotubbs but surely all fizzy drinks are acidic by virtue of the carbon dioxide dissolved in water, and probably citric acid for fruit-flavoured drinks, and phosphoric acid for full-fat Coke so probably Diet Coke as well. (Does pb have its own dentist? I vaguely think we used to.)
It is all total garbage. Why anyone would drink it is beyond me.
People drink it because they like it, and are thirsty.
Water is available.
Dost thou think because thou art virtuous there shall be no more cakes and ale?
Yes, by Saint Anne, and ginger shall be hot i' th' mouth too.
People like it.
Look at the list of ingredients on a can of diet coke or whatever and think which of those chemicals do I really want in my body? Water, that's it. We don't even know what some of these man made chemicals do to your body. And caffeine is a mood altering narcotic that's present in huge quantities in some of these drinks. I wouldn't touch any of them.
"The Pentagon is considering a Boeing proposal to supply Ukraine with [the 150 km range] Ground-Launched Small Diameter Bomb (GLSDB) ... It combines the GBU-39 SDB with the M26 rocket motor ... GLSDB could be delivered as early as spring 2023." https://mobile.twitter.com/GuyPlopsky/status/1597162415405531136
Uses stockpiled components, so plenty available, and they are cheap.
Sounds like a proposal designed to lure the Kremlin back to the negotiating table.
Sounds more like a proposal to make a shitload of money for Boeing.
Not at those prices. 2,000 would come to 80m dollars. And it's a joint Swedish/US program.
It is all total garbage. Why anyone would drink it is beyond me.
I've had a couple of cans of full-fat Coke pretty much every day for the last 50 years - it's part of my healthy lifestyle, together with ready microwaved meals and instant Sainsbury coffee.
Worse - it's gold cans, which is caffeine free Diet Coke. Which completely misses all the point of Coke.
Caffeine free Diet Coke? I drink Diet Coke as I don't want to rot my teeth, but caffeine free . . . can't respect that.
Are you as kind to your teeth as you think? I'm no @turbotubbs but surely all fizzy drinks are acidic by virtue of the carbon dioxide dissolved in water, and probably citric acid for fruit-flavoured drinks, and phosphoric acid for full-fat Coke so probably Diet Coke as well. (Does pb have its own dentist? I vaguely think we used to.)
It is all total garbage. Why anyone would drink it is beyond me.
People drink it because they like it, and are thirsty.
Water is available.
Dost thou think because thou art virtuous there shall be no more cakes and ale?
Yes, by Saint Anne, and ginger shall be hot i' th' mouth too.
People like it.
Look at the list of ingredients on a can of diet coke or whatever and think which of those chemicals do I really want in my body? Water, that's it. We don't even know what some of these man made chemicals do to your body. And caffeine is a mood altering narcotic that's present in huge quantities in some of these drinks. I wouldn't touch any of them.
Thats going a bit far. Any chemical allowed for human consumption has been tested, and there is no difference in how 'man-made' chemicals behave and natural ones. But yes, water is a far better option.
It is all total garbage. Why anyone would drink it is beyond me.
I've had a couple of cans of full-fat Coke pretty much every day for the last 50 years - it's part of my healthy lifestyle, together with ready microwaved meals and instant Sainsbury coffee.
Worse - it's gold cans, which is caffeine free Diet Coke. Which completely misses all the point of Coke.
Caffeine free Diet Coke? I drink Diet Coke as I don't want to rot my teeth, but caffeine free . . . can't respect that.
Are you as kind to your teeth as you think? I'm no @turbotubbs but surely all fizzy drinks are acidic by virtue of the carbon dioxide dissolved in water, and probably citric acid for fruit-flavoured drinks, and phosphoric acid for full-fat Coke so probably Diet Coke as well. (Does pb have its own dentist? I vaguely think we used to.)
It is all total garbage. Why anyone would drink it is beyond me.
People drink it because they like it, and are thirsty.
Water is available.
Dost thou think because thou art virtuous there shall be no more cakes and ale?
Yes, by Saint Anne, and ginger shall be hot i' th' mouth too.
People like it.
Look at the list of ingredients on a can of diet coke or whatever and think which of those chemicals do I really want in my body? Water, that's it. We don't even know what some of these man made chemicals do to your body. And caffeine is a mood altering narcotic that's present in huge quantities in some of these drinks. I wouldn't touch any of them.
You come across as a rather boring puritan. So no tea or coffee either, if caffeine is so off limits? Life of just water and water alone?
Look at the list of ingredients on a can of diet coke or whatever and think which of those chemicals do I really want in my body? Water, that's it. We don't even know what some of these man made chemicals do to your body. And caffeine is a mood altering narcotic that's present in huge quantities in some of these drinks. I wouldn't touch any of them.
I've had a couple of cans of full-fat Coke pretty much every day for the last 50 years - it's part of my healthy lifestyle, together with ready microwaved meals and instant Sainsbury coffee.
My neighbour used to say "look at what happens to a penny when you dip it in coke, Now imagine your intestines doing that..."
Lib Dems are attempting to amend the Finance Bill at Committee Stage to have Hunt write to every single taxpayer dragged into paying income tax or higher band with an explanation of how much more tax they are paying...
Worse - it's gold cans, which is caffeine free Diet Coke. Which completely misses all the point of Coke.
Caffeine free Diet Coke? I drink Diet Coke as I don't want to rot my teeth, but caffeine free . . . can't respect that.
Are you as kind to your teeth as you think? I'm no @turbotubbs but surely all fizzy drinks are acidic by virtue of the carbon dioxide dissolved in water, and probably citric acid for fruit-flavoured drinks, and phosphoric acid for full-fat Coke so probably Diet Coke as well. (Does pb have its own dentist? I vaguely think we used to.)
It is all total garbage. Why anyone would drink it is beyond me.
People drink it because they like it, and are thirsty.
Water is available.
Dost thou think because thou art virtuous there shall be no more cakes and ale?
Yes, by Saint Anne, and ginger shall be hot i' th' mouth too.
People like it.
Look at the list of ingredients on a can of diet coke or whatever and think which of those chemicals do I really want in my body? Water, that's it. We don't even know what some of these man made chemicals do to your body. And caffeine is a mood altering narcotic that's present in huge quantities in some of these drinks. I wouldn't touch any of them.
You say "mood altering narcotic" like it's a bad thing.
It is all total garbage. Why anyone would drink it is beyond me.
I've had a couple of cans of full-fat Coke pretty much every day for the last 50 years - it's part of my healthy lifestyle, together with ready microwaved meals and instant Sainsbury coffee.
I wanted to like because it made me laugh (as I assume you intended), but I didn't because I am also shocked. Different priorities for different people, but if ever I lose my sense of taste I might as well book the trip to Switzerland. I can't get over the idea that food is just for life and if I ever eat something I don't enjoy it feels like wasted calories.
Lib Dems are attempting to amend the Finance Bill at Committee Stage to have Hunt write to every single taxpayer dragged into paying income tax or higher band with an explanation of how much more tax they are paying...
Look at the list of ingredients on a can of diet coke or whatever and think which of those chemicals do I really want in my body? Water, that's it. We don't even know what some of these man made chemicals do to your body. And caffeine is a mood altering narcotic that's present in huge quantities in some of these drinks. I wouldn't touch any of them.
I've had a couple of cans of full-fat Coke pretty much every day for the last 50 years - it's part of my healthy lifestyle, together with ready microwaved meals and instant Sainsbury coffee.
My neighbour used to say "look at what happens to a penny when you dip it in coke, Now imagine your intestines doing that..."
The content of your stomach would do worse to a penny, so I would not get hung up on that.
Look at the list of ingredients on a can of diet coke or whatever and think which of those chemicals do I really want in my body? Water, that's it. We don't even know what some of these man made chemicals do to your body. And caffeine is a mood altering narcotic that's present in huge quantities in some of these drinks. I wouldn't touch any of them.
I've had a couple of cans of full-fat Coke pretty much every day for the last 50 years - it's part of my healthy lifestyle, together with ready microwaved meals and instant Sainsbury coffee.
My neighbour used to say "look at what happens to a penny when you dip it in coke, Now imagine your intestines doing that..."
Funny but try dipping a penny in your gastric juices and see what happens - pH between 1 and 3. diet coke about 2.3, so very, very similar.
Worse - it's gold cans, which is caffeine free Diet Coke. Which completely misses all the point of Coke.
Caffeine free Diet Coke? I drink Diet Coke as I don't want to rot my teeth, but caffeine free . . . can't respect that.
Are you as kind to your teeth as you think? I'm no @turbotubbs but surely all fizzy drinks are acidic by virtue of the carbon dioxide dissolved in water, and probably citric acid for fruit-flavoured drinks, and phosphoric acid for full-fat Coke so probably Diet Coke as well. (Does pb have its own dentist? I vaguely think we used to.)
It is all total garbage. Why anyone would drink it is beyond me.
People drink it because they like it, and are thirsty.
Water is available.
Dost thou think because thou art virtuous there shall be no more cakes and ale?
Yes, by Saint Anne, and ginger shall be hot i' th' mouth too.
People like it.
Look at the list of ingredients on a can of diet coke or whatever and think which of those chemicals do I really want in my body? Water, that's it. We don't even know what some of these man made chemicals do to your body. And caffeine is a mood altering narcotic that's present in huge quantities in some of these drinks. I wouldn't touch any of them.
You come across as a rather boring puritan. So no tea or coffee either, if caffeine is so off limits? Life of just water and water alone?
How miserable.
I drink a bit of tea, not too strong, not too much. The methodone of the caffeine world. I'm far from a puritan but unlike other narcotics like alcohol and other stuff I find caffeine very habit forming and controlling and so I stopped drinking coffee completely and drink tea in moderation.
Look at the list of ingredients on a can of diet coke or whatever and think which of those chemicals do I really want in my body? Water, that's it. We don't even know what some of these man made chemicals do to your body. And caffeine is a mood altering narcotic that's present in huge quantities in some of these drinks. I wouldn't touch any of them.
I've had a couple of cans of full-fat Coke pretty much every day for the last 50 years - it's part of my healthy lifestyle, together with ready microwaved meals and instant Sainsbury coffee.
My neighbour used to say "look at what happens to a penny when you dip it in coke, Now imagine your intestines doing that..."
Funny but try dipping a penny in your gastric juices and see what happens - pH between 1 and 3. diet coke about 2.3, so very, very similar.
Yes, it's about the teeth more than the intestines or wider digestive system.
For those of us genuinely interested in what happened, it's quite fascinating to watch as experts who were originally leaning towards lab escape came around to zoonosis.
There were three who were most Lab Leak (Edward Holmes (self-described as 70/30 in favour of lab), Farrar ("50/50") and Kristian Anderson ("60/40")). Rather interestingly, two of those were lead authors on the article they got published in February 2020, which seems a pretty fair way of doing it.
You get to see them all considering hypotheses, ruling out deliberate bioengineering (wherever it came about, it evolved in the presence of an immune system), then considering deliberate "pass through" in lab animals (which could reconcile that). However, they then concluded that was unlikely, but also insisted in including it as a potential consideration in the article, even if only to show it had been seriously considered (there was a discussion on whether they'd spark off conspiracy theorists by including it, but insisted they had to cover it).
All of the three who had been leaning lab-leak have ended up coming down very firmly on the zoonosis side. To the point where the lab-leakers of the present dismiss them immediately by ad hominem.
I personally find it encouraging that not only did they very seriously consider it (and have those who most believed it plausible to lead the papers on it), but that my belief it was initially plausible wasn't completely out there.
It does end up damaging a nice story (simple - even simplistic - with convenient baddies and a two minute hate), but on the flip side, it does forewarn us of potential future SARS-like viruses (especially with the recent uncovering of so many bat coronaviruses: https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.11.23.517609v1 )
I’m sorry, but this cannot pass. Here is your hero Edward Holmes on Twitter in May 2020. He’s just a fucking liar who does most of his work in China. Enough
Coming immediately on the heels of "To the point where the lab-leakers of the present dismiss them immediately by ad hominem," that's actively funny.
You are a victim of the fallacy that ad hominem arguments are automatically fallacious. In some circumstances, say being presented with an investment proposal by Bernie Madoff, they are valid, legitimate and compelling. Or, say, Farrar describing the lab security at Wuhan as "wild west."
My issue is that they never address the questions, simply coming up with these ad hominems.
"How did you get multiple independent releases into the wet market and only the wet market and none of the other more likely super-spreader sites in Wuhan?" doesn't really get answered by ad hominems. Or provide much illumination to those who want to know what really happened.
You still haven’t explained why Jeremy Farrar went from “lab leak is 50/50” to “lab leak is evil conspiracy theory” in 18 days
I am answered. Thank you. I never considered that as how it happened.
It’s all falling apart I’m afraid. One of the main scientists who has been pushing the wet market hypothesis for three years - she’s in those emails - has finally backtracked. Remember, she’s been claiming that “lab leak is debunked” all this time.
Her then:
Her now:
You don't get it.
I can be argued around to lab leak. Just get the key questions answered. I don't care about "he said, she said, he said." I don't care that over eighteen days of discussion, people came around from believing it plausible to seeing it as implausible (albeit those eighteen days of discussion might provide a clue as to why). Any more than I care that Isaac Newton was an arsehole who was a twat to Hooke, who insisted Leibniz stole his calculus (when Leibniz obviously came up with it first), and who firmly believed in alchemy, turning base metals into gold, and the like: his Laws of Motion either work or do not work (and they work).
My big issue is the one I've outlined, and all the "he said this at this point and that at that point," or "She was present when it was said to be debunked and has recently said simply she doesn't see that the evidence weighs in favour of it."
None of that answers the question or questions. If they're plausibly answered, then you can get me around.
Farrar didn’t change his mind. He made a ridiculous double back body flip from “50/50” to “conspiracy theory”. You’re too smart not to see the insanity of this
Or maybe you aren’t that smart, and you’re just good with numbers
But I do not wish to be unkind and you’ve been a great source on Covid, and I’ll ascribe your myopia to wilful naivety with good intentions. You like science and scientists and hate the idea they might have caused a pandemic so it’s clouding your judgement. Hey Ho
Now I must get to my flints. Good day
You are ascribing characteristics to Andy that you have no idea that he has and slightly insulting ones at that. Scientists tend to rely on evidence so don't generally have as much clouded judgement compared to the general population (although it happens obviously). It seems to me he would just prefer to see some facts and not nonsense stuff like he describes as 'he said, she said, he said' which tends to be the line of people putting forward conspiracies.
How about trying not to do this stuff and present evidence.
I have no idea which source is correct, but my judgement IS often clouded when I see stuff like 'he said, she said' from someone who often comes out with conspiracies.
"Scientists tend to rely on evidence" is utter gibberish for starters. What job do you do that doesn't? Even if you are unemployed, life is a pretty evidence based enterprise anyway (water is falling on my head; this evidence of rain prompts me to put my umbrella up.) He is treating the non lab leak theory as the default from which he needs to be swayed, which is not an evidence-based position, and you are actually doing he said, she said stuff under the illusion that you are criticising it, in a beautiful example of circular logic.
That has to be one of the most bonkers posts I have ever seen.
Starting with the statement 'Scientists tend to rely on evidence is utter gibberish for starters'. Great start.
Then suggesting that everyone does. No they don't. Scientist rely on evidence much more than the rest of people do in every day life. It is sort of what science is. In everyday life we jump to conclusions all the time and there are masses of people out there who just ignore evidence completely. Astrologers for instance and of course conspiracy theories rely on ignoring evidence.
And nowhere did I use circular logic and nowhere did I rely on 'he says, she says'. God knows where you got that from.
"which tends to be the line of people putting forward conspiracy theories" is, whether you like it or not, an ad hominem argument based on what "he said."
Saying that "In everyday life we jump to conclusions all the time and there are masses of people out there who just ignore evidence completely" is either ad hominem (Leon is in your view one of these people) or irrelevant (he is not.)
I note you dodge the question of what your evidence free occupation actually is.
I'm sorry this is really nonsense.
a) Are you really suggesting that stating that there are people putting forward conspiracy theories are not basing them on evidence is at all controversial. It is not an ad hominem attack and I notice you regularly accuse people of making such attacks when they are not, but are attacking the argument.
b) Similarly saying in everyday life we jump to conclusions all the time and there are masses of people out there who just ignore evidence completely is also a non controversial statement and also not an ad hominem attack. Note the word 'we' and 'masses of people' which rather gives the game away that it wasn't a personal attack.
c) Leon is not one of these people nor is he irrelevant, but even he would admit he does come out with conspiracy theories. It is his trademark for goodness sake. Have you read many of his posts on aliens?
d) I didn't answer the question about the job as it is irrelevant whether I do an evidence based job at all. The point is many people do believe things not based upon evidence (religion, astrology, gut feelings, etc, etc) and scientist when researching stuff by and large do base their research on evidence. And that is the point and the only point being made.
e) FYI in terms of my job, I am retired. I ran my own business organising large organisations into commercial pressure groups, before that I worked for one of the largest computer companies and before that I worked for one of the largest consultancies. My degree is in Mathematics and I specialised in Logic, so I do rather know whether I am applying a circular argument or whether I am arguing a statement, stating a fact or making a personal attack thank you very much.
You must have dozed off in a few of the lectures, then. Your bizarre claim that scientists have privileged access to the concept of evidence is ad hominem in its purest form, the Platonic ideal of ad hominem: Never mind the ARGUMENT, concentrate on the fact that the MAN ADVANCING IT is a SCIENTIST, do you hear?
OK you are now just making stuff up. At no point did I say 'scientists have a privileged access to the concept of evidence'. Where the hell did you get that from? However what I did say (paraphrasing) is that scientists tend to be more evidenced based than astrologers, people who have gut feelings, people who believe in conspiracies. And if that is not blindingly obvious to you, then you are a lost cause.
Also at no point did I say you should concentrate on the man advancing the argument and not the argument. Again you are just making that up as well.
Please stop putting words into my mouth that I did not say.
One wonders if you have taken a bet as to how many times you can post 'ad hominem' today.
"At no point did I say 'scientists have a privileged access to the concept of evidence'. Where the hell did you get that from?"
"Scientists tend to rely on evidence so don't generally have as much clouded judgement compared to the general population."
Do you have that multiple personality thing going on?
And how is what I said not true (scientists do generally rely on evidence more than the average person in what they do) and how is it the same as 'scientist have a privileged access to the concept of evidence' (which you said I said and which I didn't)
Are you denying scientist generally are more evidence based than astrologers, people with gut feelings and conspiracy theorists which is what I said. You are deluded if you do.
You are rather coming over as someone who failed in science and are rather envious of those that haven't.
And also I note in the last couple of posts you have 'attacked the man' so a hypocrite to boot.
Yes, well, it all feeds on itself after a bit, doesn't it? Can we add "recursion" to the too-difficult list?
When you are straw-mannig astrologers you are losing.
Have had successful careers as a lawyer and an historian. Hampered obv by my non-sciency difficulty with the whole evidence thing.
Worse - it's gold cans, which is caffeine free Diet Coke. Which completely misses all the point of Coke.
Caffeine free Diet Coke? I drink Diet Coke as I don't want to rot my teeth, but caffeine free . . . can't respect that.
Are you as kind to your teeth as you think? I'm no @turbotubbs but surely all fizzy drinks are acidic by virtue of the carbon dioxide dissolved in water, and probably citric acid for fruit-flavoured drinks, and phosphoric acid for full-fat Coke so probably Diet Coke as well. (Does pb have its own dentist? I vaguely think we used to.)
It is all total garbage. Why anyone would drink it is beyond me.
People drink it because they like it, and are thirsty.
Water is available.
Dost thou think because thou art virtuous there shall be no more cakes and ale?
Yes, by Saint Anne, and ginger shall be hot i' th' mouth too.
People like it.
Look at the list of ingredients on a can of diet coke or whatever and think which of those chemicals do I really want in my body? Water, that's it. We don't even know what some of these man made chemicals do to your body. And caffeine is a mood altering narcotic that's present in huge quantities in some of these drinks. I wouldn't touch any of them.
You say "mood altering narcotic" like it's a bad thing.
Worse - it's gold cans, which is caffeine free Diet Coke. Which completely misses all the point of Coke.
Caffeine free Diet Coke? I drink Diet Coke as I don't want to rot my teeth, but caffeine free . . . can't respect that.
Are you as kind to your teeth as you think? I'm no @turbotubbs but surely all fizzy drinks are acidic by virtue of the carbon dioxide dissolved in water, and probably citric acid for fruit-flavoured drinks, and phosphoric acid for full-fat Coke so probably Diet Coke as well. (Does pb have its own dentist? I vaguely think we used to.)
It is all total garbage. Why anyone would drink it is beyond me.
People drink it because they like it, and are thirsty.
Water is available.
Dost thou think because thou art virtuous there shall be no more cakes and ale?
Yes, by Saint Anne, and ginger shall be hot i' th' mouth too.
People like it.
Look at the list of ingredients on a can of diet coke or whatever and think which of those chemicals do I really want in my body? Water, that's it. We don't even know what some of these man made chemicals do to your body. And caffeine is a mood altering narcotic that's present in huge quantities in some of these drinks. I wouldn't touch any of them.
You come across as a rather boring puritan. So no tea or coffee either, if caffeine is so off limits? Life of just water and water alone?
How miserable.
I drink a bit of tea, not too strong, not too much. The methodone of the caffeine world. I'm far from a puritan but unlike other narcotics like alcohol and other stuff I find caffeine very habit forming and controlling and so I stopped drinking coffee completely and drink tea in moderation.
Try the PG Tips tasty decaf, I've been drinking it and making masala chai with since I gave up caffeine and I can't tell the difference in flavour.
Worse - it's gold cans, which is caffeine free Diet Coke. Which completely misses all the point of Coke.
Caffeine free Diet Coke? I drink Diet Coke as I don't want to rot my teeth, but caffeine free . . . can't respect that.
Are you as kind to your teeth as you think? I'm no @turbotubbs but surely all fizzy drinks are acidic by virtue of the carbon dioxide dissolved in water, and probably citric acid for fruit-flavoured drinks, and phosphoric acid for full-fat Coke so probably Diet Coke as well. (Does pb have its own dentist? I vaguely think we used to.)
It is all total garbage. Why anyone would drink it is beyond me.
People drink it because they like it, and are thirsty.
Water is available.
Dost thou think because thou art virtuous there shall be no more cakes and ale?
Yes, by Saint Anne, and ginger shall be hot i' th' mouth too.
People like it.
Look at the list of ingredients on a can of diet coke or whatever and think which of those chemicals do I really want in my body? Water, that's it. We don't even know what some of these man made chemicals do to your body. And caffeine is a mood altering narcotic that's present in huge quantities in some of these drinks. I wouldn't touch any of them.
You say "mood altering narcotic" like it's a bad thing.
It can be a great thing but not daily.
Definitely not daily.
Only one coffee a day? What would the world be coming to?
"The Pentagon is considering a Boeing proposal to supply Ukraine with [the 150 km range] Ground-Launched Small Diameter Bomb (GLSDB) ... It combines the GBU-39 SDB with the M26 rocket motor ... GLSDB could be delivered as early as spring 2023." https://mobile.twitter.com/GuyPlopsky/status/1597162415405531136
Uses stockpiled components, so plenty available, and they are cheap.
Sounds like a proposal designed to lure the Kremlin back to the negotiating table.
Sounds more like a proposal to make a shitload of money for Boeing.
Worse - it's gold cans, which is caffeine free Diet Coke. Which completely misses all the point of Coke.
Caffeine free Diet Coke? I drink Diet Coke as I don't want to rot my teeth, but caffeine free . . . can't respect that.
Are you as kind to your teeth as you think? I'm no @turbotubbs but surely all fizzy drinks are acidic by virtue of the carbon dioxide dissolved in water, and probably citric acid for fruit-flavoured drinks, and phosphoric acid for full-fat Coke so probably Diet Coke as well. (Does pb have its own dentist? I vaguely think we used to.)
It is all total garbage. Why anyone would drink it is beyond me.
People drink it because they like it, and are thirsty.
Water is available.
Tell that to the wine bores on last night's thread. As it happens, I've recently switched to water after decades of proper Coke.
Worse - it's gold cans, which is caffeine free Diet Coke. Which completely misses all the point of Coke.
Caffeine free Diet Coke? I drink Diet Coke as I don't want to rot my teeth, but caffeine free . . . can't respect that.
Are you as kind to your teeth as you think? I'm no @turbotubbs but surely all fizzy drinks are acidic by virtue of the carbon dioxide dissolved in water, and probably citric acid for fruit-flavoured drinks, and phosphoric acid for full-fat Coke so probably Diet Coke as well. (Does pb have its own dentist? I vaguely think we used to.)
It is all total garbage. Why anyone would drink it is beyond me.
People drink it because they like it, and are thirsty.
Water is available.
Dost thou think because thou art virtuous there shall be no more cakes and ale?
Yes, by Saint Anne, and ginger shall be hot i' th' mouth too.
People like it.
Look at the list of ingredients on a can of diet coke or whatever and think which of those chemicals do I really want in my body? Water, that's it. We don't even know what some of these man made chemicals do to your body. And caffeine is a mood altering narcotic that's present in huge quantities in some of these drinks. I wouldn't touch any of them.
Yes, five million are on out-of-work benefits. Here’s the proof
DWP data is now on Stat-Xplore, a versatile open data tool. The password bit is deceptive: you can bypass by clicking ‘Guest log in’ to find an Alladin’s Cave of data. Look at the dataset ‘Benefit Combinations – Data from February 2019'. Click Table 5, then click ‘Open table’ to get the numbers. A wheel appears while it computes, then the following table is revealed:
Add the figures on the right-hand column and you get 5.2 million. A call to the DWP press office will confirm that there is no overlap (every person is put in the category of the highest benefit they claim) and that 'out of work' is indeed the best phrase to describe them. The DWP offer no on-the-record guidance, for reasons that I’m unclear about. ‘Incap’ is Incapacity Benefit (or Employment Support Allowance – ESA – as it’s now known). IS is Income Support, which is being phased out. JSA is Jobseeker’s Allowance, now mostly replaced by the out-of-work part of Universal Credit.
Worse - it's gold cans, which is caffeine free Diet Coke. Which completely misses all the point of Coke.
Caffeine free Diet Coke? I drink Diet Coke as I don't want to rot my teeth, but caffeine free . . . can't respect that.
Are you as kind to your teeth as you think? I'm no @turbotubbs but surely all fizzy drinks are acidic by virtue of the carbon dioxide dissolved in water, and probably citric acid for fruit-flavoured drinks, and phosphoric acid for full-fat Coke so probably Diet Coke as well. (Does pb have its own dentist? I vaguely think we used to.)
It is all total garbage. Why anyone would drink it is beyond me.
People drink it because they like it, and are thirsty.
Water is available.
Dost thou think because thou art virtuous there shall be no more cakes and ale?
Yes, by Saint Anne, and ginger shall be hot i' th' mouth too.
People like it.
Look at the list of ingredients on a can of diet coke or whatever and think which of those chemicals do I really want in my body? Water, that's it. We don't even know what some of these man made chemicals do to your body. And caffeine is a mood altering narcotic that's present in huge quantities in some of these drinks. I wouldn't touch any of them.
Thats going a bit far. Any chemical allowed for human consumption has been tested, and there is no difference in how 'man-made' chemicals behave and natural ones. But yes, water is a far better option.
There can be quite a difference in the presence of given chemicals between natural and man made foodstuffs, though. The jury is still out on the long term health effects of aspartame, which is not something you'll find much of in natural foodstuffs, for example: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8227014/
Worse - it's gold cans, which is caffeine free Diet Coke. Which completely misses all the point of Coke.
Caffeine free Diet Coke? I drink Diet Coke as I don't want to rot my teeth, but caffeine free . . . can't respect that.
Are you as kind to your teeth as you think? I'm no @turbotubbs but surely all fizzy drinks are acidic by virtue of the carbon dioxide dissolved in water, and probably citric acid for fruit-flavoured drinks, and phosphoric acid for full-fat Coke so probably Diet Coke as well. (Does pb have its own dentist? I vaguely think we used to.)
It is all total garbage. Why anyone would drink it is beyond me.
People drink it because they like it, and are thirsty.
Water is available.
Dost thou think because thou art virtuous there shall be no more cakes and ale?
Yes, by Saint Anne, and ginger shall be hot i' th' mouth too.
People like it.
Look at the list of ingredients on a can of diet coke or whatever and think which of those chemicals do I really want in my body? Water, that's it. We don't even know what some of these man made chemicals do to your body. And caffeine is a mood altering narcotic that's present in huge quantities in some of these drinks. I wouldn't touch any of them.
Three ingredients is the best number: water, hops and barley
Lib Dems are attempting to amend the Finance Bill at Committee Stage to have Hunt write to every single taxpayer dragged into paying income tax or higher band with an explanation of how much more tax they are paying...
A very opposition proposal. Reverse the parties in government and both sides would do the same, so I cannot get worked up by giving proposal or response to it.
Worse - it's gold cans, which is caffeine free Diet Coke. Which completely misses all the point of Coke.
Caffeine free Diet Coke? I drink Diet Coke as I don't want to rot my teeth, but caffeine free . . . can't respect that.
Are you as kind to your teeth as you think? I'm no @turbotubbs but surely all fizzy drinks are acidic by virtue of the carbon dioxide dissolved in water, and probably citric acid for fruit-flavoured drinks, and phosphoric acid for full-fat Coke so probably Diet Coke as well. (Does pb have its own dentist? I vaguely think we used to.)
It is all total garbage. Why anyone would drink it is beyond me.
People drink it because they like it, and are thirsty.
Water is available.
Dost thou think because thou art virtuous there shall be no more cakes and ale?
Yes, by Saint Anne, and ginger shall be hot i' th' mouth too.
People like it.
Look at the list of ingredients on a can of diet coke or whatever and think which of those chemicals do I really want in my body? Water, that's it. We don't even know what some of these man made chemicals do to your body. And caffeine is a mood altering narcotic that's present in huge quantities in some of these drinks. I wouldn't touch any of them.
You come across as a rather boring puritan. So no tea or coffee either, if caffeine is so off limits? Life of just water and water alone?
How miserable.
What evidence there is (and as with all dietary research, there are so many confounding factors, it's almost impossible to be sure) that coffee consumption is on average quite good for you.
Worse - it's gold cans, which is caffeine free Diet Coke. Which completely misses all the point of Coke.
Caffeine free Diet Coke? I drink Diet Coke as I don't want to rot my teeth, but caffeine free . . . can't respect that.
Are you as kind to your teeth as you think? I'm no @turbotubbs but surely all fizzy drinks are acidic by virtue of the carbon dioxide dissolved in water, and probably citric acid for fruit-flavoured drinks, and phosphoric acid for full-fat Coke so probably Diet Coke as well. (Does pb have its own dentist? I vaguely think we used to.)
It is all total garbage. Why anyone would drink it is beyond me.
People drink it because they like it, and are thirsty.
Water is available.
Dost thou think because thou art virtuous there shall be no more cakes and ale?
Yes, by Saint Anne, and ginger shall be hot i' th' mouth too.
People like it.
Look at the list of ingredients on a can of diet coke or whatever and think which of those chemicals do I really want in my body? Water, that's it. We don't even know what some of these man made chemicals do to your body. And caffeine is a mood altering narcotic that's present in huge quantities in some of these drinks. I wouldn't touch any of them.
Thats going a bit far. Any chemical allowed for human consumption has been tested, and there is no difference in how 'man-made' chemicals behave and natural ones. But yes, water is a far better option.
There can be quite a difference in the presence of given chemicals between natural and man made foodstuffs, though. The jury is still out on the long term health effects of aspartame, which is not something you'll find much of in natural foodstuffs, for example: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8227014/
I'd agree with that. I always challenge anyone who believes 'man-made' chemicals are intrinsically bad as the atoms don't know anything different.
Worse - it's gold cans, which is caffeine free Diet Coke. Which completely misses all the point of Coke.
Caffeine free Diet Coke? I drink Diet Coke as I don't want to rot my teeth, but caffeine free . . . can't respect that.
Are you as kind to your teeth as you think? I'm no @turbotubbs but surely all fizzy drinks are acidic by virtue of the carbon dioxide dissolved in water, and probably citric acid for fruit-flavoured drinks, and phosphoric acid for full-fat Coke so probably Diet Coke as well. (Does pb have its own dentist? I vaguely think we used to.)
It is all total garbage. Why anyone would drink it is beyond me.
People drink it because they like it, and are thirsty.
Water is available.
Dost thou think because thou art virtuous there shall be no more cakes and ale?
Yes, by Saint Anne, and ginger shall be hot i' th' mouth too.
People like it.
Look at the list of ingredients on a can of diet coke or whatever and think which of those chemicals do I really want in my body? Water, that's it. We don't even know what some of these man made chemicals do to your body. And caffeine is a mood altering narcotic that's present in huge quantities in some of these drinks. I wouldn't touch any of them.
You come across as a rather boring puritan. So no tea or coffee either, if caffeine is so off limits? Life of just water and water alone?
How miserable.
What evidence there is (and as with all dietary research, there are so many confounding factors, it's almost impossible to be sure) that coffee consumption is on average quite good for you.
The evidence is clear. Many living people drink coffee. No dead people drink coffee.
Worse - it's gold cans, which is caffeine free Diet Coke. Which completely misses all the point of Coke.
Caffeine free Diet Coke? I drink Diet Coke as I don't want to rot my teeth, but caffeine free . . . can't respect that.
Are you as kind to your teeth as you think? I'm no @turbotubbs but surely all fizzy drinks are acidic by virtue of the carbon dioxide dissolved in water, and probably citric acid for fruit-flavoured drinks, and phosphoric acid for full-fat Coke so probably Diet Coke as well. (Does pb have its own dentist? I vaguely think we used to.)
It is all total garbage. Why anyone would drink it is beyond me.
People drink it because they like it, and are thirsty.
Water is available.
Dost thou think because thou art virtuous there shall be no more cakes and ale?
Yes, by Saint Anne, and ginger shall be hot i' th' mouth too.
People like it.
Look at the list of ingredients on a can of diet coke or whatever and think which of those chemicals do I really want in my body? Water, that's it. We don't even know what some of these man made chemicals do to your body. And caffeine is a mood altering narcotic that's present in huge quantities in some of these drinks. I wouldn't touch any of them.
Thats going a bit far. Any chemical allowed for human consumption has been tested, and there is no difference in how 'man-made' chemicals behave and natural ones. But yes, water is a far better option.
There can be quite a difference in the presence of given chemicals between natural and man made foodstuffs, though. The jury is still out on the long term health effects of aspartame, which is not something you'll find much of in natural foodstuffs, for example: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8227014/
I'd agree with that. I always challenge anyone who believes 'man-made' chemicals are intrinsically bad as the atoms don't know anything different.
Nothing inherently bad but I'd rather my diet was composed mainly of things that humans have been eating for centuries without getting cancer or becoming morbidly obese. Clearly something has gone wrong with the average British diet and lifestyle in the last few decades, judging by the state of people. I'm sure all the garbage food and drink that people consume has something to do with it, alongside a sedentary lifestyle.
Worse - it's gold cans, which is caffeine free Diet Coke. Which completely misses all the point of Coke.
Caffeine free Diet Coke? I drink Diet Coke as I don't want to rot my teeth, but caffeine free . . . can't respect that.
Are you as kind to your teeth as you think? I'm no @turbotubbs but surely all fizzy drinks are acidic by virtue of the carbon dioxide dissolved in water, and probably citric acid for fruit-flavoured drinks, and phosphoric acid for full-fat Coke so probably Diet Coke as well. (Does pb have its own dentist? I vaguely think we used to.)
It is all total garbage. Why anyone would drink it is beyond me.
People drink it because they like it, and are thirsty.
Water is available.
Dost thou think because thou art virtuous there shall be no more cakes and ale?
Yes, by Saint Anne, and ginger shall be hot i' th' mouth too.
People like it.
Look at the list of ingredients on a can of diet coke or whatever and think which of those chemicals do I really want in my body? Water, that's it. We don't even know what some of these man made chemicals do to your body. And caffeine is a mood altering narcotic that's present in huge quantities in some of these drinks. I wouldn't touch any of them.
You come across as a rather boring puritan. So no tea or coffee either, if caffeine is so off limits? Life of just water and water alone?
How miserable.
What evidence there is (and as with all dietary research, there are so many confounding factors, it's almost impossible to be sure) that coffee consumption is on average quite good for you.
The evidence is clear. Many living people drink coffee. No dead people drink coffee.
And it's good for long life. The average age of coffee drinkers is higher than that of the population.
Worse - it's gold cans, which is caffeine free Diet Coke. Which completely misses all the point of Coke.
Caffeine free Diet Coke? I drink Diet Coke as I don't want to rot my teeth, but caffeine free . . . can't respect that.
Are you as kind to your teeth as you think? I'm no @turbotubbs but surely all fizzy drinks are acidic by virtue of the carbon dioxide dissolved in water, and probably citric acid for fruit-flavoured drinks, and phosphoric acid for full-fat Coke so probably Diet Coke as well. (Does pb have its own dentist? I vaguely think we used to.)
It is all total garbage. Why anyone would drink it is beyond me.
People drink it because they like it, and are thirsty.
Water is available.
Dost thou think because thou art virtuous there shall be no more cakes and ale?
Yes, by Saint Anne, and ginger shall be hot i' th' mouth too.
People like it.
Look at the list of ingredients on a can of diet coke or whatever and think which of those chemicals do I really want in my body? Water, that's it. We don't even know what some of these man made chemicals do to your body. And caffeine is a mood altering narcotic that's present in huge quantities in some of these drinks. I wouldn't touch any of them.
You come across as a rather boring puritan. So no tea or coffee either, if caffeine is so off limits? Life of just water and water alone?
How miserable.
What evidence there is (and as with all dietary research, there are so many confounding factors, it's almost impossible to be sure) that coffee consumption is on average quite good for you.
A scheme that will see households rewarded for not using power-intensive products at peak times could be used for the first time on Tuesday, it has been revealed.
National Grid's system operator said it may activate its Demand Flexibility Service (DFS), which is designed to avoid blackouts, on Tuesday evening to reduce strain on the electricity grid.
The scheme sees households, which are signed up for the initiative, paid to not use things like electric ovens, dishwashers and tumble driers between certain hours.
It is the first line of defence in the event that peak evening demand exceeds supply over the coming winter.
Worse - it's gold cans, which is caffeine free Diet Coke. Which completely misses all the point of Coke.
Caffeine free Diet Coke? I drink Diet Coke as I don't want to rot my teeth, but caffeine free . . . can't respect that.
Are you as kind to your teeth as you think? I'm no @turbotubbs but surely all fizzy drinks are acidic by virtue of the carbon dioxide dissolved in water, and probably citric acid for fruit-flavoured drinks, and phosphoric acid for full-fat Coke so probably Diet Coke as well. (Does pb have its own dentist? I vaguely think we used to.)
It is all total garbage. Why anyone would drink it is beyond me.
People drink it because they like it, and are thirsty.
Water is available.
Dost thou think because thou art virtuous there shall be no more cakes and ale?
Yes, by Saint Anne, and ginger shall be hot i' th' mouth too.
People like it.
Look at the list of ingredients on a can of diet coke or whatever and think which of those chemicals do I really want in my body? Water, that's it. We don't even know what some of these man made chemicals do to your body. And caffeine is a mood altering narcotic that's present in huge quantities in some of these drinks. I wouldn't touch any of them.
You come across as a rather boring puritan. So no tea or coffee either, if caffeine is so off limits? Life of just water and water alone?
How miserable.
What evidence there is (and as with all dietary research, there are so many confounding factors, it's almost impossible to be sure) that coffee consumption is on average quite good for you.
If you drink alcohol it is VITAL to drink a lot of caffeinated coffee too. Very well established protective effect for the liver.
Worse - it's gold cans, which is caffeine free Diet Coke. Which completely misses all the point of Coke.
Caffeine free Diet Coke? I drink Diet Coke as I don't want to rot my teeth, but caffeine free . . . can't respect that.
Are you as kind to your teeth as you think? I'm no @turbotubbs but surely all fizzy drinks are acidic by virtue of the carbon dioxide dissolved in water, and probably citric acid for fruit-flavoured drinks, and phosphoric acid for full-fat Coke so probably Diet Coke as well. (Does pb have its own dentist? I vaguely think we used to.)
It is all total garbage. Why anyone would drink it is beyond me.
People drink it because they like it, and are thirsty.
Water is available.
Dost thou think because thou art virtuous there shall be no more cakes and ale?
Yes, by Saint Anne, and ginger shall be hot i' th' mouth too.
People like it.
Look at the list of ingredients on a can of diet coke or whatever and think which of those chemicals do I really want in my body? Water, that's it. We don't even know what some of these man made chemicals do to your body. And caffeine is a mood altering narcotic that's present in huge quantities in some of these drinks. I wouldn't touch any of them.
You come across as a rather boring puritan. So no tea or coffee either, if caffeine is so off limits? Life of just water and water alone?
How miserable.
What evidence there is (and as with all dietary research, there are so many confounding factors, it's almost impossible to be sure) that coffee consumption is on average quite good for you.
My problem with coffee was that I found it very habit forming. If I missed the morning coffee I got a bad headache and felt exhausted. Bad news if I was travelling, for instance, and time difference messed up the coffee schedule. I'm sure that long term it's not harmful, I just disliked the way I felt it was controlling the rhythm of my day and feel better off without it.
Worse - it's gold cans, which is caffeine free Diet Coke. Which completely misses all the point of Coke.
Caffeine free Diet Coke? I drink Diet Coke as I don't want to rot my teeth, but caffeine free . . . can't respect that.
Are you as kind to your teeth as you think? I'm no @turbotubbs but surely all fizzy drinks are acidic by virtue of the carbon dioxide dissolved in water, and probably citric acid for fruit-flavoured drinks, and phosphoric acid for full-fat Coke so probably Diet Coke as well. (Does pb have its own dentist? I vaguely think we used to.)
It is all total garbage. Why anyone would drink it is beyond me.
People drink it because they like it, and are thirsty.
Water is available.
Dost thou think because thou art virtuous there shall be no more cakes and ale?
Yes, by Saint Anne, and ginger shall be hot i' th' mouth too.
People like it.
Look at the list of ingredients on a can of diet coke or whatever and think which of those chemicals do I really want in my body? Water, that's it. We don't even know what some of these man made chemicals do to your body. And caffeine is a mood altering narcotic that's present in huge quantities in some of these drinks. I wouldn't touch any of them.
You come across as a rather boring puritan. So no tea or coffee either, if caffeine is so off limits? Life of just water and water alone?
How miserable.
What evidence there is (and as with all dietary research, there are so many confounding factors, it's almost impossible to be sure) that coffee consumption is on average quite good for you.
If you drink alcohol it is VITAL to drink a lot of caffeinated coffee too. Very well established protective effect for the liver.
Or take them at the same time: recommend Buckfast to all PB oenophiles.
Petrol prices are currently similar to when oil was ~£86 per barrel, today they have fallen to £67 per barrel, this implies garages are padding their margins by about 15-17%, while the CMA fannies about the total destruction of competition among petrol forecourts has meant rip off prices for drivers and haulage firms. The decision to allow Asda to be taken over and then the transfer of Asda garages to the parent has been a complete disaster for the nation. It has, IMO, been one of the major causes of fuel price inflation which has led to higher inflation rates than elsewhere in Europe where the market still functions normally. It's time for the government to step in and break up the sector.
I think you need to look at the refining spread too.
'a growing gap between the price of crude oil entering refineries and the wholesale price of petrol and diesel leaving them (the “refining spread”). This accounts for just over 40% of the growth in road fuel prices (24p per litre). Both demand-side factors (in particular, the post-COVID-19 recovery) and supply-side factors (in particular, the Russian invasion of Ukraine and the mothballing of refining capacity during COVID-19) appear to have played a role in driving up the refining spread.'
Worse - it's gold cans, which is caffeine free Diet Coke. Which completely misses all the point of Coke.
Caffeine free Diet Coke? I drink Diet Coke as I don't want to rot my teeth, but caffeine free . . . can't respect that.
Are you as kind to your teeth as you think? I'm no @turbotubbs but surely all fizzy drinks are acidic by virtue of the carbon dioxide dissolved in water, and probably citric acid for fruit-flavoured drinks, and phosphoric acid for full-fat Coke so probably Diet Coke as well. (Does pb have its own dentist? I vaguely think we used to.)
It is all total garbage. Why anyone would drink it is beyond me.
People drink it because they like it, and are thirsty.
Water is available.
Dost thou think because thou art virtuous there shall be no more cakes and ale?
Yes, by Saint Anne, and ginger shall be hot i' th' mouth too.
People like it.
Look at the list of ingredients on a can of diet coke or whatever and think which of those chemicals do I really want in my body? Water, that's it. We don't even know what some of these man made chemicals do to your body. And caffeine is a mood altering narcotic that's present in huge quantities in some of these drinks. I wouldn't touch any of them.
Thats going a bit far. Any chemical allowed for human consumption has been tested, and there is no difference in how 'man-made' chemicals behave and natural ones. But yes, water is a far better option.
There can be quite a difference in the presence of given chemicals between natural and man made foodstuffs, though. The jury is still out on the long term health effects of aspartame, which is not something you'll find much of in natural foodstuffs, for example: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8227014/
I'd agree with that. I always challenge anyone who believes 'man-made' chemicals are intrinsically bad as the atoms don't know anything different.
Nothing inherently bad but I'd rather my diet was composed mainly of things that humans have been eating for centuries without getting cancer or becoming morbidly obese. Clearly something has gone wrong with the average British diet and lifestyle in the last few decades, judging by the state of people. I'm sure all the garbage food and drink that people consume has something to do with it, alongside a sedentary lifestyle.
I'm sure you know this, but people (and animals) have been getting cancer since the year dot - there are Egyptian mummies with cancer, dinosaur bones with cancer etc. One of the great untruths that has been pushed in recent times is that most cancers are down to life-style. Some are, but most are not.
Believe me, when I was diagnosed with leukemia I thought long and hard about why it had happened. I fixated on a piece of metal in my knee from a surgical repair a few years before. But in reality it was just a mutation that can happen to anyone and happens to 160 people a year in the UK.
Worse - it's gold cans, which is caffeine free Diet Coke. Which completely misses all the point of Coke.
Caffeine free Diet Coke? I drink Diet Coke as I don't want to rot my teeth, but caffeine free . . . can't respect that.
Are you as kind to your teeth as you think? I'm no @turbotubbs but surely all fizzy drinks are acidic by virtue of the carbon dioxide dissolved in water, and probably citric acid for fruit-flavoured drinks, and phosphoric acid for full-fat Coke so probably Diet Coke as well. (Does pb have its own dentist? I vaguely think we used to.)
It is all total garbage. Why anyone would drink it is beyond me.
People drink it because they like it, and are thirsty.
Water is available.
Dost thou think because thou art virtuous there shall be no more cakes and ale?
Yes, by Saint Anne, and ginger shall be hot i' th' mouth too.
People like it.
Look at the list of ingredients on a can of diet coke or whatever and think which of those chemicals do I really want in my body? Water, that's it. We don't even know what some of these man made chemicals do to your body. And caffeine is a mood altering narcotic that's present in huge quantities in some of these drinks. I wouldn't touch any of them.
Worse - it's gold cans, which is caffeine free Diet Coke. Which completely misses all the point of Coke.
Caffeine free Diet Coke? I drink Diet Coke as I don't want to rot my teeth, but caffeine free . . . can't respect that.
Are you as kind to your teeth as you think? I'm no @turbotubbs but surely all fizzy drinks are acidic by virtue of the carbon dioxide dissolved in water, and probably citric acid for fruit-flavoured drinks, and phosphoric acid for full-fat Coke so probably Diet Coke as well. (Does pb have its own dentist? I vaguely think we used to.)
It is all total garbage. Why anyone would drink it is beyond me.
People drink it because they like it, and are thirsty.
Water is available.
Dost thou think because thou art virtuous there shall be no more cakes and ale?
Yes, by Saint Anne, and ginger shall be hot i' th' mouth too.
People like it.
Look at the list of ingredients on a can of diet coke or whatever and think which of those chemicals do I really want in my body? Water, that's it. We don't even know what some of these man made chemicals do to your body. And caffeine is a mood altering narcotic that's present in huge quantities in some of these drinks. I wouldn't touch any of them.
You come across as a rather boring puritan. So no tea or coffee either, if caffeine is so off limits? Life of just water and water alone?
How miserable.
What evidence there is (and as with all dietary research, there are so many confounding factors, it's almost impossible to be sure) that coffee consumption is on average quite good for you.
The evidence is clear. Many living people drink coffee. No dead people drink coffee.
And it's good for long life. The average age of coffee drinkers is higher than that of the population.
See also the consumption of spicy food (around 2-4 times a week). I can share papers if people are interested - DM me.
Worse - it's gold cans, which is caffeine free Diet Coke. Which completely misses all the point of Coke.
Caffeine free Diet Coke? I drink Diet Coke as I don't want to rot my teeth, but caffeine free . . . can't respect that.
Are you as kind to your teeth as you think? I'm no @turbotubbs but surely all fizzy drinks are acidic by virtue of the carbon dioxide dissolved in water, and probably citric acid for fruit-flavoured drinks, and phosphoric acid for full-fat Coke so probably Diet Coke as well. (Does pb have its own dentist? I vaguely think we used to.)
It is all total garbage. Why anyone would drink it is beyond me.
People drink it because they like it, and are thirsty.
Water is available.
Dost thou think because thou art virtuous there shall be no more cakes and ale?
Yes, by Saint Anne, and ginger shall be hot i' th' mouth too.
People like it.
Look at the list of ingredients on a can of diet coke or whatever and think which of those chemicals do I really want in my body? Water, that's it. We don't even know what some of these man made chemicals do to your body. And caffeine is a mood altering narcotic that's present in huge quantities in some of these drinks. I wouldn't touch any of them.
Worse - it's gold cans, which is caffeine free Diet Coke. Which completely misses all the point of Coke.
Caffeine free Diet Coke? I drink Diet Coke as I don't want to rot my teeth, but caffeine free . . . can't respect that.
Are you as kind to your teeth as you think? I'm no @turbotubbs but surely all fizzy drinks are acidic by virtue of the carbon dioxide dissolved in water, and probably citric acid for fruit-flavoured drinks, and phosphoric acid for full-fat Coke so probably Diet Coke as well. (Does pb have its own dentist? I vaguely think we used to.)
It is all total garbage. Why anyone would drink it is beyond me.
People drink it because they like it, and are thirsty.
Water is available.
Dost thou think because thou art virtuous there shall be no more cakes and ale?
Yes, by Saint Anne, and ginger shall be hot i' th' mouth too.
People like it.
Look at the list of ingredients on a can of diet coke or whatever and think which of those chemicals do I really want in my body? Water, that's it. We don't even know what some of these man made chemicals do to your body. And caffeine is a mood altering narcotic that's present in huge quantities in some of these drinks. I wouldn't touch any of them.
For those of us genuinely interested in what happened, it's quite fascinating to watch as experts who were originally leaning towards lab escape came around to zoonosis.
There were three who were most Lab Leak (Edward Holmes (self-described as 70/30 in favour of lab), Farrar ("50/50") and Kristian Anderson ("60/40")). Rather interestingly, two of those were lead authors on the article they got published in February 2020, which seems a pretty fair way of doing it.
You get to see them all considering hypotheses, ruling out deliberate bioengineering (wherever it came about, it evolved in the presence of an immune system), then considering deliberate "pass through" in lab animals (which could reconcile that). However, they then concluded that was unlikely, but also insisted in including it as a potential consideration in the article, even if only to show it had been seriously considered (there was a discussion on whether they'd spark off conspiracy theorists by including it, but insisted they had to cover it).
All of the three who had been leaning lab-leak have ended up coming down very firmly on the zoonosis side. To the point where the lab-leakers of the present dismiss them immediately by ad hominem.
I personally find it encouraging that not only did they very seriously consider it (and have those who most believed it plausible to lead the papers on it), but that my belief it was initially plausible wasn't completely out there.
It does end up damaging a nice story (simple - even simplistic - with convenient baddies and a two minute hate), but on the flip side, it does forewarn us of potential future SARS-like viruses (especially with the recent uncovering of so many bat coronaviruses: https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.11.23.517609v1 )
I’m sorry, but this cannot pass. Here is your hero Edward Holmes on Twitter in May 2020. He’s just a fucking liar who does most of his work in China. Enough
Coming immediately on the heels of "To the point where the lab-leakers of the present dismiss them immediately by ad hominem," that's actively funny.
You are a victim of the fallacy that ad hominem arguments are automatically fallacious. In some circumstances, say being presented with an investment proposal by Bernie Madoff, they are valid, legitimate and compelling. Or, say, Farrar describing the lab security at Wuhan as "wild west."
My issue is that they never address the questions, simply coming up with these ad hominems.
"How did you get multiple independent releases into the wet market and only the wet market and none of the other more likely super-spreader sites in Wuhan?" doesn't really get answered by ad hominems. Or provide much illumination to those who want to know what really happened.
You still haven’t explained why Jeremy Farrar went from “lab leak is 50/50” to “lab leak is evil conspiracy theory” in 18 days
I am answered. Thank you. I never considered that as how it happened.
It’s all falling apart I’m afraid. One of the main scientists who has been pushing the wet market hypothesis for three years - she’s in those emails - has finally backtracked. Remember, she’s been claiming that “lab leak is debunked” all this time.
Her then:
Her now:
You don't get it.
I can be argued around to lab leak. Just get the key questions answered. I don't care about "he said, she said, he said." I don't care that over eighteen days of discussion, people came around from believing it plausible to seeing it as implausible (albeit those eighteen days of discussion might provide a clue as to why). Any more than I care that Isaac Newton was an arsehole who was a twat to Hooke, who insisted Leibniz stole his calculus (when Leibniz obviously came up with it first), and who firmly believed in alchemy, turning base metals into gold, and the like: his Laws of Motion either work or do not work (and they work).
My big issue is the one I've outlined, and all the "he said this at this point and that at that point," or "She was present when it was said to be debunked and has recently said simply she doesn't see that the evidence weighs in favour of it."
None of that answers the question or questions. If they're plausibly answered, then you can get me around.
Farrar didn’t change his mind. He made a ridiculous double back body flip from “50/50” to “conspiracy theory”. You’re too smart not to see the insanity of this
Or maybe you aren’t that smart, and you’re just good with numbers
But I do not wish to be unkind and you’ve been a great source on Covid, and I’ll ascribe your myopia to wilful naivety with good intentions. You like science and scientists and hate the idea they might have caused a pandemic so it’s clouding your judgement. Hey Ho
Now I must get to my flints. Good day
You are ascribing characteristics to Andy that you have no idea that he has and slightly insulting ones at that. Scientists tend to rely on evidence so don't generally have as much clouded judgement compared to the general population (although it happens obviously). It seems to me he would just prefer to see some facts and not nonsense stuff like he describes as 'he said, she said, he said' which tends to be the line of people putting forward conspiracies.
How about trying not to do this stuff and present evidence.
I have no idea which source is correct, but my judgement IS often clouded when I see stuff like 'he said, she said' from someone who often comes out with conspiracies.
"Scientists tend to rely on evidence" is utter gibberish for starters. What job do you do that doesn't? Even if you are unemployed, life is a pretty evidence based enterprise anyway (water is falling on my head; this evidence of rain prompts me to put my umbrella up.) He is treating the non lab leak theory as the default from which he needs to be swayed, which is not an evidence-based position, and you are actually doing he said, she said stuff under the illusion that you are criticising it, in a beautiful example of circular logic.
That has to be one of the most bonkers posts I have ever seen.
Starting with the statement 'Scientists tend to rely on evidence is utter gibberish for starters'. Great start.
Then suggesting that everyone does. No they don't. Scientist rely on evidence much more than the rest of people do in every day life. It is sort of what science is. In everyday life we jump to conclusions all the time and there are masses of people out there who just ignore evidence completely. Astrologers for instance and of course conspiracy theories rely on ignoring evidence.
And nowhere did I use circular logic and nowhere did I rely on 'he says, she says'. God knows where you got that from.
"which tends to be the line of people putting forward conspiracy theories" is, whether you like it or not, an ad hominem argument based on what "he said."
Saying that "In everyday life we jump to conclusions all the time and there are masses of people out there who just ignore evidence completely" is either ad hominem (Leon is in your view one of these people) or irrelevant (he is not.)
I note you dodge the question of what your evidence free occupation actually is.
I'm sorry this is really nonsense.
a) Are you really suggesting that stating that there are people putting forward conspiracy theories are not basing them on evidence is at all controversial. It is not an ad hominem attack and I notice you regularly accuse people of making such attacks when they are not, but are attacking the argument.
b) Similarly saying in everyday life we jump to conclusions all the time and there are masses of people out there who just ignore evidence completely is also a non controversial statement and also not an ad hominem attack. Note the word 'we' and 'masses of people' which rather gives the game away that it wasn't a personal attack.
c) Leon is not one of these people nor is he irrelevant, but even he would admit he does come out with conspiracy theories. It is his trademark for goodness sake. Have you read many of his posts on aliens?
d) I didn't answer the question about the job as it is irrelevant whether I do an evidence based job at all. The point is many people do believe things not based upon evidence (religion, astrology, gut feelings, etc, etc) and scientist when researching stuff by and large do base their research on evidence. And that is the point and the only point being made.
e) FYI in terms of my job, I am retired. I ran my own business organising large organisations into commercial pressure groups, before that I worked for one of the largest computer companies and before that I worked for one of the largest consultancies. My degree is in Mathematics and I specialised in Logic, so I do rather know whether I am applying a circular argument or whether I am arguing a statement, stating a fact or making a personal attack thank you very much.
You must have dozed off in a few of the lectures, then. Your bizarre claim that scientists have privileged access to the concept of evidence is ad hominem in its purest form, the Platonic ideal of ad hominem: Never mind the ARGUMENT, concentrate on the fact that the MAN ADVANCING IT is a SCIENTIST, do you hear?
OK you are now just making stuff up. At no point did I say 'scientists have a privileged access to the concept of evidence'. Where the hell did you get that from? However what I did say (paraphrasing) is that scientists tend to be more evidenced based than astrologers, people who have gut feelings, people who believe in conspiracies. And if that is not blindingly obvious to you, then you are a lost cause.
Also at no point did I say you should concentrate on the man advancing the argument and not the argument. Again you are just making that up as well.
Please stop putting words into my mouth that I did not say.
One wonders if you have taken a bet as to how many times you can post 'ad hominem' today.
"At no point did I say 'scientists have a privileged access to the concept of evidence'. Where the hell did you get that from?"
"Scientists tend to rely on evidence so don't generally have as much clouded judgement compared to the general population."
Do you have that multiple personality thing going on?
And how is what I said not true (scientists do generally rely on evidence more than the average person in what they do) and how is it the same as 'scientist have a privileged access to the concept of evidence' (which you said I said and which I didn't)
Are you denying scientist generally are more evidence based than astrologers, people with gut feelings and conspiracy theorists which is what I said. You are deluded if you do.
You are rather coming over as someone who failed in science and are rather envious of those that haven't.
And also I note in the last couple of posts you have 'attacked the man' so a hypocrite to boot.
Yes, well, it all feeds on itself after a bit, doesn't it? Can we add "recursion" to the too-difficult list?
When you are straw-mannig astrologers you are losing.
Have had successful careers as a lawyer and an historian. Hampered obv by my non-sciency difficulty with the whole evidence thing.
There we go again bringing in something I haven't done or said.
Also bringing another regular feature of someone who uses 'ad hominem', ad nauseam, the 'strawman'. If you go back and read my posts you will see:
a) I brought it in right at the beginning
b) It was one of a list that I brought in, including conspiracy theorists which was the actual basis of the argument
So not a strawman argument at all is it? You were arguing against it from the beginning. Fails the definition of strawman.
I tell you what next time I'm feeling a little unwell I'll come and ask you what is wrong with me rather than my wife (a Doctor) because clearly as a non scientist you will assess the evidence presented better than her.
For goodness sake to keep arguing that in general (and the in general is key and something I have always said) scientists do not rely on evidence more than the average person is just plain bonkers.
As I said before you really do seem to have a huge chip on your shoulder re scientists.
What a surprise though now that Covid has moved on that some of the joyless authoritarians who wanted to lock people down because life might be risky, turn out to by hydric acid pushers.
Yes, five million are on out-of-work benefits. Here’s the proof
DWP data is now on Stat-Xplore, a versatile open data tool. The password bit is deceptive: you can bypass by clicking ‘Guest log in’ to find an Alladin’s Cave of data. Look at the dataset ‘Benefit Combinations – Data from February 2019'. Click Table 5, then click ‘Open table’ to get the numbers. A wheel appears while it computes, then the following table is revealed:
Add the figures on the right-hand column and you get 5.2 million. A call to the DWP press office will confirm that there is no overlap (every person is put in the category of the highest benefit they claim) and that 'out of work' is indeed the best phrase to describe them. The DWP offer no on-the-record guidance, for reasons that I’m unclear about. ‘Incap’ is Incapacity Benefit (or Employment Support Allowance – ESA – as it’s now known). IS is Income Support, which is being phased out. JSA is Jobseeker’s Allowance, now mostly replaced by the out-of-work part of Universal Credit.
Worse - it's gold cans, which is caffeine free Diet Coke. Which completely misses all the point of Coke.
Caffeine free Diet Coke? I drink Diet Coke as I don't want to rot my teeth, but caffeine free . . . can't respect that.
Are you as kind to your teeth as you think? I'm no @turbotubbs but surely all fizzy drinks are acidic by virtue of the carbon dioxide dissolved in water, and probably citric acid for fruit-flavoured drinks, and phosphoric acid for full-fat Coke so probably Diet Coke as well. (Does pb have its own dentist? I vaguely think we used to.)
It is all total garbage. Why anyone would drink it is beyond me.
People drink it because they like it, and are thirsty.
Water is available.
Dost thou think because thou art virtuous there shall be no more cakes and ale?
Yes, by Saint Anne, and ginger shall be hot i' th' mouth too.
People like it.
Look at the list of ingredients on a can of diet coke or whatever and think which of those chemicals do I really want in my body? Water, that's it. We don't even know what some of these man made chemicals do to your body. And caffeine is a mood altering narcotic that's present in huge quantities in some of these drinks. I wouldn't touch any of them.
Worse - it's gold cans, which is caffeine free Diet Coke. Which completely misses all the point of Coke.
Caffeine free Diet Coke? I drink Diet Coke as I don't want to rot my teeth, but caffeine free . . . can't respect that.
Are you as kind to your teeth as you think? I'm no @turbotubbs but surely all fizzy drinks are acidic by virtue of the carbon dioxide dissolved in water, and probably citric acid for fruit-flavoured drinks, and phosphoric acid for full-fat Coke so probably Diet Coke as well. (Does pb have its own dentist? I vaguely think we used to.)
It is all total garbage. Why anyone would drink it is beyond me.
People drink it because they like it, and are thirsty.
Water is available.
Dost thou think because thou art virtuous there shall be no more cakes and ale?
Yes, by Saint Anne, and ginger shall be hot i' th' mouth too.
People like it.
Look at the list of ingredients on a can of diet coke or whatever and think which of those chemicals do I really want in my body? Water, that's it. We don't even know what some of these man made chemicals do to your body. And caffeine is a mood altering narcotic that's present in huge quantities in some of these drinks. I wouldn't touch any of them.
The NHS recommended diet drinks on the diabetes remission diet I have been on for the last 7 months.
Fills you up without calories (same as water) and helped me lose 35kg.
The only side effect i have noticed is it gives you a visceral hatred of SKS!!!
Worse - it's gold cans, which is caffeine free Diet Coke. Which completely misses all the point of Coke.
Caffeine free Diet Coke? I drink Diet Coke as I don't want to rot my teeth, but caffeine free . . . can't respect that.
Are you as kind to your teeth as you think? I'm no @turbotubbs but surely all fizzy drinks are acidic by virtue of the carbon dioxide dissolved in water, and probably citric acid for fruit-flavoured drinks, and phosphoric acid for full-fat Coke so probably Diet Coke as well. (Does pb have its own dentist? I vaguely think we used to.)
It is all total garbage. Why anyone would drink it is beyond me.
People drink it because they like it, and are thirsty.
Water is available.
Dost thou think because thou art virtuous there shall be no more cakes and ale?
Yes, by Saint Anne, and ginger shall be hot i' th' mouth too.
People like it.
Look at the list of ingredients on a can of diet coke or whatever and think which of those chemicals do I really want in my body? Water, that's it. We don't even know what some of these man made chemicals do to your body. And caffeine is a mood altering narcotic that's present in huge quantities in some of these drinks. I wouldn't touch any of them.
The NHS recommended diet drinks on the diabetes remission diet I have been on for the last 7 months.
Fills you up without calories (same as water) and helped me lose 35kg.
The only side effect i have noticed is it gives you a visceral hatred of SKS!!!
Worse - it's gold cans, which is caffeine free Diet Coke. Which completely misses all the point of Coke.
Caffeine free Diet Coke? I drink Diet Coke as I don't want to rot my teeth, but caffeine free . . . can't respect that.
Are you as kind to your teeth as you think? I'm no @turbotubbs but surely all fizzy drinks are acidic by virtue of the carbon dioxide dissolved in water, and probably citric acid for fruit-flavoured drinks, and phosphoric acid for full-fat Coke so probably Diet Coke as well. (Does pb have its own dentist? I vaguely think we used to.)
It is all total garbage. Why anyone would drink it is beyond me.
People drink it because they like it, and are thirsty.
Water is available.
Dost thou think because thou art virtuous there shall be no more cakes and ale?
Yes, by Saint Anne, and ginger shall be hot i' th' mouth too.
People like it.
Look at the list of ingredients on a can of diet coke or whatever and think which of those chemicals do I really want in my body? Water, that's it. We don't even know what some of these man made chemicals do to your body. And caffeine is a mood altering narcotic that's present in huge quantities in some of these drinks. I wouldn't touch any of them.
The NHS recommended diet drinks on the diabetes remission diet I have been on for the last 7 months.
Fills you up without calories (same as water) and helped me lose 35kg.
The only side effect i have noticed is it gives you a visceral hatred of SKS!!!
What a surprise though now that Covid has moved on that some of the joyless authoritarians who wanted to lock people down because life might be risky, turn out to by hydric acid pushers.
You talking about me? I was pretty middle of the road on lockdowns. Maybe a "joyless authoritarian" compared to you (what could be more joyful than hundreds of thousands more funerals, right) but I think your views on that issue were the outlier not mine. And nobody's stopping you drinking sickly sweet over-caffeinated chemical gloop, knock yourself out. Like a lot of people on the right you're confusing people disagreeing with you with people being authoritarian. Oh and 3-2 to Ghana. This is a great game.
Worse - it's gold cans, which is caffeine free Diet Coke. Which completely misses all the point of Coke.
Caffeine free Diet Coke? I drink Diet Coke as I don't want to rot my teeth, but caffeine free . . . can't respect that.
Are you as kind to your teeth as you think? I'm no @turbotubbs but surely all fizzy drinks are acidic by virtue of the carbon dioxide dissolved in water, and probably citric acid for fruit-flavoured drinks, and phosphoric acid for full-fat Coke so probably Diet Coke as well. (Does pb have its own dentist? I vaguely think we used to.)
It is all total garbage. Why anyone would drink it is beyond me.
People drink it because they like it, and are thirsty.
Water is available.
Dost thou think because thou art virtuous there shall be no more cakes and ale?
Yes, by Saint Anne, and ginger shall be hot i' th' mouth too.
People like it.
Look at the list of ingredients on a can of diet coke or whatever and think which of those chemicals do I really want in my body? Water, that's it. We don't even know what some of these man made chemicals do to your body. And caffeine is a mood altering narcotic that's present in huge quantities in some of these drinks. I wouldn't touch any of them.
The NHS recommended diet drinks on the diabetes remission diet I have been on for the last 7 months.
Fills you up without calories (same as water) and helped me lose 35kg.
The only side effect i have noticed is it gives you a visceral hatred of SKS!!!
Worse - it's gold cans, which is caffeine free Diet Coke. Which completely misses all the point of Coke.
Caffeine free Diet Coke? I drink Diet Coke as I don't want to rot my teeth, but caffeine free . . . can't respect that.
Are you as kind to your teeth as you think? I'm no @turbotubbs but surely all fizzy drinks are acidic by virtue of the carbon dioxide dissolved in water, and probably citric acid for fruit-flavoured drinks, and phosphoric acid for full-fat Coke so probably Diet Coke as well. (Does pb have its own dentist? I vaguely think we used to.)
It is all total garbage. Why anyone would drink it is beyond me.
People drink it because they like it, and are thirsty.
Water is available.
Dost thou think because thou art virtuous there shall be no more cakes and ale?
Yes, by Saint Anne, and ginger shall be hot i' th' mouth too.
People like it.
Look at the list of ingredients on a can of diet coke or whatever and think which of those chemicals do I really want in my body? Water, that's it. We don't even know what some of these man made chemicals do to your body. And caffeine is a mood altering narcotic that's present in huge quantities in some of these drinks. I wouldn't touch any of them.
The NHS recommended diet drinks on the diabetes remission diet I have been on for the last 7 months.
Fills you up without calories (same as water) and helped me lose 35kg.
The only side effect i have noticed is it gives you a visceral hatred of SKS!!!
Maybe BR drinks the old recipe, explaining his visceral hatred of Gordon Brown.
Worse - it's gold cans, which is caffeine free Diet Coke. Which completely misses all the point of Coke.
Caffeine free Diet Coke? I drink Diet Coke as I don't want to rot my teeth, but caffeine free . . . can't respect that.
Are you as kind to your teeth as you think? I'm no @turbotubbs but surely all fizzy drinks are acidic by virtue of the carbon dioxide dissolved in water, and probably citric acid for fruit-flavoured drinks, and phosphoric acid for full-fat Coke so probably Diet Coke as well. (Does pb have its own dentist? I vaguely think we used to.)
It is all total garbage. Why anyone would drink it is beyond me.
People drink it because they like it, and are thirsty.
Water is available.
Dost thou think because thou art virtuous there shall be no more cakes and ale?
Yes, by Saint Anne, and ginger shall be hot i' th' mouth too.
People like it.
Look at the list of ingredients on a can of diet coke or whatever and think which of those chemicals do I really want in my body? Water, that's it. We don't even know what some of these man made chemicals do to your body. And caffeine is a mood altering narcotic that's present in huge quantities in some of these drinks. I wouldn't touch any of them.
Worse - it's gold cans, which is caffeine free Diet Coke. Which completely misses all the point of Coke.
Caffeine free Diet Coke? I drink Diet Coke as I don't want to rot my teeth, but caffeine free . . . can't respect that.
Are you as kind to your teeth as you think? I'm no @turbotubbs but surely all fizzy drinks are acidic by virtue of the carbon dioxide dissolved in water, and probably citric acid for fruit-flavoured drinks, and phosphoric acid for full-fat Coke so probably Diet Coke as well. (Does pb have its own dentist? I vaguely think we used to.)
It is all total garbage. Why anyone would drink it is beyond me.
People drink it because they like it, and are thirsty.
Water is available.
Dost thou think because thou art virtuous there shall be no more cakes and ale?
Yes, by Saint Anne, and ginger shall be hot i' th' mouth too.
People like it.
Look at the list of ingredients on a can of diet coke or whatever and think which of those chemicals do I really want in my body? Water, that's it. We don't even know what some of these man made chemicals do to your body. And caffeine is a mood altering narcotic that's present in huge quantities in some of these drinks. I wouldn't touch any of them.
The NHS recommended diet drinks on the diabetes remission diet I have been on for the last 7 months.
Fills you up without calories (same as water) and helped me lose 35kg.
The only side effect i have noticed is it gives you a visceral hatred of SKS!!!
I don't trust diet coke, or artificial sweetener in general.
I read something on the internet (treat with appropriate caution) that while there are fewer calories in artifically sweetened drinks, aspartane inhibits your body from turning fat into energy. So you don't get the calories, but nor do you lose fat the normal way.
More concretely, I also know several women who have real problems kicking a diet coke habit - with proper cravings, headaches and other withdrawal symptoms. Which a) sounds far from a benign 'ooh, I'd really like a bit of cake but I'm on a diet, tut' and b) diet coke is a really lame 'up' to give you such a big 'down' from not doing it. It's hardly the joy of a cigarette or a beer. If I'm going to get withdrawal symptoms I'd have wanted to consume something better than diet coke to make it worthwhile.
Worse - it's gold cans, which is caffeine free Diet Coke. Which completely misses all the point of Coke.
Caffeine free Diet Coke? I drink Diet Coke as I don't want to rot my teeth, but caffeine free . . . can't respect that.
Are you as kind to your teeth as you think? I'm no @turbotubbs but surely all fizzy drinks are acidic by virtue of the carbon dioxide dissolved in water, and probably citric acid for fruit-flavoured drinks, and phosphoric acid for full-fat Coke so probably Diet Coke as well. (Does pb have its own dentist? I vaguely think we used to.)
It is all total garbage. Why anyone would drink it is beyond me.
People drink it because they like it, and are thirsty.
Water is available.
Dost thou think because thou art virtuous there shall be no more cakes and ale?
Yes, by Saint Anne, and ginger shall be hot i' th' mouth too.
People like it.
Look at the list of ingredients on a can of diet coke or whatever and think which of those chemicals do I really want in my body? Water, that's it. We don't even know what some of these man made chemicals do to your body. And caffeine is a mood altering narcotic that's present in huge quantities in some of these drinks. I wouldn't touch any of them.
You come across as a rather boring puritan. So no tea or coffee either, if caffeine is so off limits? Life of just water and water alone?
How miserable.
What evidence there is (and as with all dietary research, there are so many confounding factors, it's almost impossible to be sure) that coffee consumption is on average quite good for you.
The evidence is clear. Many living people drink coffee. No dead people drink coffee.
You have been taking lessons from HYUFD haven't you?
Worse - it's gold cans, which is caffeine free Diet Coke. Which completely misses all the point of Coke.
Caffeine free Diet Coke? I drink Diet Coke as I don't want to rot my teeth, but caffeine free . . . can't respect that.
Are you as kind to your teeth as you think? I'm no @turbotubbs but surely all fizzy drinks are acidic by virtue of the carbon dioxide dissolved in water, and probably citric acid for fruit-flavoured drinks, and phosphoric acid for full-fat Coke so probably Diet Coke as well. (Does pb have its own dentist? I vaguely think we used to.)
It is all total garbage. Why anyone would drink it is beyond me.
People drink it because they like it, and are thirsty.
Water is available.
Dost thou think because thou art virtuous there shall be no more cakes and ale?
Yes, by Saint Anne, and ginger shall be hot i' th' mouth too.
People like it.
Look at the list of ingredients on a can of diet coke or whatever and think which of those chemicals do I really want in my body? Water, that's it. We don't even know what some of these man made chemicals do to your body. And caffeine is a mood altering narcotic that's present in huge quantities in some of these drinks. I wouldn't touch any of them.
The NHS recommended diet drinks on the diabetes remission diet I have been on for the last 7 months.
Fills you up without calories (same as water) and helped me lose 35kg.
The only side effect i have noticed is it gives you a visceral hatred of SKS!!!
I don't trust diet coke, or artificial sweetener in general.
I read something on the internet (treat with appropriate caution) that while there are fewer calories in artifically sweetened drinks, aspartane inhibits your body from turning fat into energy. So you don't get the calories, but nor do you lose fat the normal way.
More concretely, I also know several women who have real problems kicking a diet coke habit - with proper cravings, headaches and other withdrawal symptoms. Which a) sounds far from a benign 'ooh, I'd really like a bit of cake but I'm on a diet, tut' and b) diet coke is a really lame 'up' to give you such a big 'down' from not doing it. It's hardly the joy of a cigarette or a beer. If I'm going to get withdrawal symptoms I'd have wanted to consume something better than diet coke to make it worthwhile.
And, of course, the result of the nonsensical nanny state sugar tax is that most soft drinks manufacturers have "reformulated", i.e. added a bunch more artificial sweetener to create a worse-tasting drink.
Hancock’s book on the pandemic is already a best seller on Amazon after his nightly appearances on I’m a Celebrity. Guido can reveal that Hancock has sold story serialisation to the Mail, for a price that would make you choke more than eating a cow’s anus…
Worse - it's gold cans, which is caffeine free Diet Coke. Which completely misses all the point of Coke.
Caffeine free Diet Coke? I drink Diet Coke as I don't want to rot my teeth, but caffeine free . . . can't respect that.
Are you as kind to your teeth as you think? I'm no @turbotubbs but surely all fizzy drinks are acidic by virtue of the carbon dioxide dissolved in water, and probably citric acid for fruit-flavoured drinks, and phosphoric acid for full-fat Coke so probably Diet Coke as well. (Does pb have its own dentist? I vaguely think we used to.)
It is all total garbage. Why anyone would drink it is beyond me.
People drink it because they like it, and are thirsty.
Water is available.
Dost thou think because thou art virtuous there shall be no more cakes and ale?
Yes, by Saint Anne, and ginger shall be hot i' th' mouth too.
People like it.
Look at the list of ingredients on a can of diet coke or whatever and think which of those chemicals do I really want in my body? Water, that's it. We don't even know what some of these man made chemicals do to your body. And caffeine is a mood altering narcotic that's present in huge quantities in some of these drinks. I wouldn't touch any of them.
Petrol prices are currently similar to when oil was ~£86 per barrel, today they have fallen to £67 per barrel, this implies garages are padding their margins by about 15-17%, while the CMA fannies about the total destruction of competition among petrol forecourts has meant rip off prices for drivers and haulage firms. The decision to allow Asda to be taken over and then the transfer of Asda garages to the parent has been a complete disaster for the nation. It has, IMO, been one of the major causes of fuel price inflation which has led to higher inflation rates than elsewhere in Europe where the market still functions normally. It's time for the government to step in and break up the sector.
I think you need to look at the refining spread too.
'a growing gap between the price of crude oil entering refineries and the wholesale price of petrol and diesel leaving them (the “refining spread”). This accounts for just over 40% of the growth in road fuel prices (24p per litre). Both demand-side factors (in particular, the post-COVID-19 recovery) and supply-side factors (in particular, the Russian invasion of Ukraine and the mothballing of refining capacity during COVID-19) appear to have played a role in driving up the refining spread.'
But that has stayed consistent over the last two months, if anything it should have gone down as more refining capacity has been opening up. This is pure retailer price gouging and margin padding.
If you'll excuse me for being on topic, here are some basics about US presidential elections every bettor on them should know: "First, it’s important to note that Republicans and Democrats have very different rules.
As befits the parties’ different inclinations toward state vs. federal power. Democrats have for more than four decades imposed on states a requirement that delegates be allocated proportionally. (Those with really, really long memories may recall the 1972 convention fight over whether California could use its winner-take-all approach. It could — and that was the key to George McGovern’s nomination — but it was the beginning of the end of that approach.)
By contrast, the Republican National Committee pretty much leaves the decision up to the states. Once the first wave of contests is over, the GOP can use proportional representation; winner-take-all by congressional district; winner-take-all by state if a candidate gets 50 percent of the vote, or winner-take-all by plurality. In recent years, that’s meant many Republican primaries have ended up in some version of the winner-take-all." source: https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2022/11/25/trump-2024-presidential-election-00070677
If the parties had magically switched rules in 2016, Trump might have faced a fight at the convention, and Clinton would have been declared the Democratic nominee far sooner.
(Why the different rules? Simplifying a bit, Republicans have chosen winner-take-all because it makes a prolonged and damaging fight less likely; Democrats have chosen proportionality to be fairer to minorities.)
Worse - it's gold cans, which is caffeine free Diet Coke. Which completely misses all the point of Coke.
Caffeine free Diet Coke? I drink Diet Coke as I don't want to rot my teeth, but caffeine free . . . can't respect that.
Are you as kind to your teeth as you think? I'm no @turbotubbs but surely all fizzy drinks are acidic by virtue of the carbon dioxide dissolved in water, and probably citric acid for fruit-flavoured drinks, and phosphoric acid for full-fat Coke so probably Diet Coke as well. (Does pb have its own dentist? I vaguely think we used to.)
It is all total garbage. Why anyone would drink it is beyond me.
People drink it because they like it, and are thirsty.
Water is available.
Dost thou think because thou art virtuous there shall be no more cakes and ale?
Yes, by Saint Anne, and ginger shall be hot i' th' mouth too.
People like it.
Look at the list of ingredients on a can of diet coke or whatever and think which of those chemicals do I really want in my body? Water, that's it. We don't even know what some of these man made chemicals do to your body. And caffeine is a mood altering narcotic that's present in huge quantities in some of these drinks. I wouldn't touch any of them.
Worse - it's gold cans, which is caffeine free Diet Coke. Which completely misses all the point of Coke.
Caffeine free Diet Coke? I drink Diet Coke as I don't want to rot my teeth, but caffeine free . . . can't respect that.
Are you as kind to your teeth as you think? I'm no @turbotubbs but surely all fizzy drinks are acidic by virtue of the carbon dioxide dissolved in water, and probably citric acid for fruit-flavoured drinks, and phosphoric acid for full-fat Coke so probably Diet Coke as well. (Does pb have its own dentist? I vaguely think we used to.)
It is all total garbage. Why anyone would drink it is beyond me.
People drink it because they like it, and are thirsty.
Water is available.
Dost thou think because thou art virtuous there shall be no more cakes and ale?
Yes, by Saint Anne, and ginger shall be hot i' th' mouth too.
People like it.
Look at the list of ingredients on a can of diet coke or whatever and think which of those chemicals do I really want in my body? Water, that's it. We don't even know what some of these man made chemicals do to your body. And caffeine is a mood altering narcotic that's present in huge quantities in some of these drinks. I wouldn't touch any of them.
The NHS recommended diet drinks on the diabetes remission diet I have been on for the last 7 months.
Fills you up without calories (same as water) and helped me lose 35kg.
The only side effect i have noticed is it gives you a visceral hatred of SKS!!!
I don't trust diet coke, or artificial sweetener in general.
I read something on the internet (treat with appropriate caution) that while there are fewer calories in artifically sweetened drinks, aspartane inhibits your body from turning fat into energy. So you don't get the calories, but nor do you lose fat the normal way.
More concretely, I also know several women who have real problems kicking a diet coke habit - with proper cravings, headaches and other withdrawal symptoms. Which a) sounds far from a benign 'ooh, I'd really like a bit of cake but I'm on a diet, tut' and b) diet coke is a really lame 'up' to give you such a big 'down' from not doing it. It's hardly the joy of a cigarette or a beer. If I'm going to get withdrawal symptoms I'd have wanted to consume something better than diet coke to make it worthwhile.
Were they substituting anything for those cokes as bog standard caffeine withdrawal leaves me with a stonking headache.
It is all total garbage. Why anyone would drink it is beyond me.
I've had a couple of cans of full-fat Coke pretty much every day for the last 50 years - it's part of my healthy lifestyle, together with ready microwaved meals and instant Sainsbury coffee.
I wanted to like because it made me laugh (as I assume you intended), but I didn't because I am also shocked. Different priorities for different people, but if ever I lose my sense of taste I might as well book the trip to Switzerland. I can't get over the idea that food is just for life and if I ever eat something I don't enjoy it feels like wasted calories.
Yes...but that's why I drink Coke and eat ready meals like a nice curry - I really like the taste of both. More seriously I concede that it hasn't done my teeth any good and that something like shepherd's pie with a glass of elderflower juice is probably healthier, but I've chosen to have decades of pleasure in eating and drinking. Perhaps because I never eat snacks or much fried food and have a healthy breakfast, I'm still in reasonable shape.
All diet drinks taste horrible. Sweetener has a distinct flavour that is very unpleasant.
Either drink the proper stuff or drink water.
Real Coca Cola remains one of the greatest recipes of all time: a sophisticated balance of sweet, sour and spice and a beautiful accompaniment for fine rum, when mixed properly.
Petrol prices are currently similar to when oil was ~£86 per barrel, today they have fallen to £67 per barrel, this implies garages are padding their margins by about 15-17%, while the CMA fannies about the total destruction of competition among petrol forecourts has meant rip off prices for drivers and haulage firms. The decision to allow Asda to be taken over and then the transfer of Asda garages to the parent has been a complete disaster for the nation. It has, IMO, been one of the major causes of fuel price inflation which has led to higher inflation rates than elsewhere in Europe where the market still functions normally. It's time for the government to step in and break up the sector.
I think you need to look at the refining spread too.
'a growing gap between the price of crude oil entering refineries and the wholesale price of petrol and diesel leaving them (the “refining spread”). This accounts for just over 40% of the growth in road fuel prices (24p per litre). Both demand-side factors (in particular, the post-COVID-19 recovery) and supply-side factors (in particular, the Russian invasion of Ukraine and the mothballing of refining capacity during COVID-19) appear to have played a role in driving up the refining spread.'
But that has stayed consistent over the last two months, if anything it should have gone down as more refining capacity has been opening up. This is pure retailer price gouging and margin padding.
+1 - I filled up with petrol at £1.519 a litre on Saturday by visiting the local Jet garage (which is at J59 of the A1M) and was a 2 minute diversion from the journey I was on.
Sainsburys is charging £1.609 at the moment.
It's clear when you look at the prices local independents garages are charging that the supermarkets and other chains are profiteering.
Lib Dems are attempting to amend the Finance Bill at Committee Stage to have Hunt write to every single taxpayer dragged into paying income tax or higher band with an explanation of how much more tax they are paying...
Lol as if that will pass, Labour will abstain because the latter years will be in their term and the Tories will vote against. Gesture politics.
It’s a whole lot easier to forgive an opposition party for a little bit of gesture politics - especially when they are up against the system as are the LibDems - than it is a governing party taking the country towards ruin because it always puts its own politics before the national interest.
Worse - it's gold cans, which is caffeine free Diet Coke. Which completely misses all the point of Coke.
Caffeine free Diet Coke? I drink Diet Coke as I don't want to rot my teeth, but caffeine free . . . can't respect that.
Are you as kind to your teeth as you think? I'm no @turbotubbs but surely all fizzy drinks are acidic by virtue of the carbon dioxide dissolved in water, and probably citric acid for fruit-flavoured drinks, and phosphoric acid for full-fat Coke so probably Diet Coke as well. (Does pb have its own dentist? I vaguely think we used to.)
It is all total garbage. Why anyone would drink it is beyond me.
People drink it because they like it, and are thirsty.
Water is available.
Dost thou think because thou art virtuous there shall be no more cakes and ale?
Yes, by Saint Anne, and ginger shall be hot i' th' mouth too.
People like it.
Look at the list of ingredients on a can of diet coke or whatever and think which of those chemicals do I really want in my body? Water, that's it. We don't even know what some of these man made chemicals do to your body. And caffeine is a mood altering narcotic that's present in huge quantities in some of these drinks. I wouldn't touch any of them.
The NHS recommended diet drinks on the diabetes remission diet I have been on for the last 7 months.
Fills you up without calories (same as water) and helped me lose 35kg.
The only side effect i have noticed is it gives you a visceral hatred of SKS!!!
I don't trust diet coke, or artificial sweetener in general.
I read something on the internet (treat with appropriate caution) that while there are fewer calories in artifically sweetened drinks, aspartane inhibits your body from turning fat into energy. So you don't get the calories, but nor do you lose fat the normal way.
More concretely, I also know several women who have real problems kicking a diet coke habit - with proper cravings, headaches and other withdrawal symptoms. Which a) sounds far from a benign 'ooh, I'd really like a bit of cake but I'm on a diet, tut' and b) diet coke is a really lame 'up' to give you such a big 'down' from not doing it. It's hardly the joy of a cigarette or a beer. If I'm going to get withdrawal symptoms I'd have wanted to consume something better than diet coke to make it worthwhile.
And, of course, the result of the nonsensical nanny state sugar tax is that most soft drinks manufacturers have "reformulated", i.e. added a bunch more artificial sweetener to create a worse-tasting drink.
Absolutely right. And people noticed. Hence why Sanpellegrino had to bring the original recipe back.
Worse - it's gold cans, which is caffeine free Diet Coke. Which completely misses all the point of Coke.
Caffeine free Diet Coke? I drink Diet Coke as I don't want to rot my teeth, but caffeine free . . . can't respect that.
Are you as kind to your teeth as you think? I'm no @turbotubbs but surely all fizzy drinks are acidic by virtue of the carbon dioxide dissolved in water, and probably citric acid for fruit-flavoured drinks, and phosphoric acid for full-fat Coke so probably Diet Coke as well. (Does pb have its own dentist? I vaguely think we used to.)
It is all total garbage. Why anyone would drink it is beyond me.
People drink it because they like it, and are thirsty.
Water is available.
Dost thou think because thou art virtuous there shall be no more cakes and ale?
Yes, by Saint Anne, and ginger shall be hot i' th' mouth too.
People like it.
Look at the list of ingredients on a can of diet coke or whatever and think which of those chemicals do I really want in my body? Water, that's it. We don't even know what some of these man made chemicals do to your body. And caffeine is a mood altering narcotic that's present in huge quantities in some of these drinks. I wouldn't touch any of them.
Worse - it's gold cans, which is caffeine free Diet Coke. Which completely misses all the point of Coke.
Caffeine free Diet Coke? I drink Diet Coke as I don't want to rot my teeth, but caffeine free . . . can't respect that.
Are you as kind to your teeth as you think? I'm no @turbotubbs but surely all fizzy drinks are acidic by virtue of the carbon dioxide dissolved in water, and probably citric acid for fruit-flavoured drinks, and phosphoric acid for full-fat Coke so probably Diet Coke as well. (Does pb have its own dentist? I vaguely think we used to.)
It is all total garbage. Why anyone would drink it is beyond me.
People drink it because they like it, and are thirsty.
Water is available.
Dost thou think because thou art virtuous there shall be no more cakes and ale?
Yes, by Saint Anne, and ginger shall be hot i' th' mouth too.
People like it.
Look at the list of ingredients on a can of diet coke or whatever and think which of those chemicals do I really want in my body? Water, that's it. We don't even know what some of these man made chemicals do to your body. And caffeine is a mood altering narcotic that's present in huge quantities in some of these drinks. I wouldn't touch any of them.
The NHS recommended diet drinks on the diabetes remission diet I have been on for the last 7 months.
Fills you up without calories (same as water) and helped me lose 35kg.
The only side effect i have noticed is it gives you a visceral hatred of SKS!!!
I don't trust diet coke, or artificial sweetener in general.
I read something on the internet (treat with appropriate caution) that while there are fewer calories in artifically sweetened drinks, aspartane inhibits your body from turning fat into energy. So you don't get the calories, but nor do you lose fat the normal way.
More concretely, I also know several women who have real problems kicking a diet coke habit - with proper cravings, headaches and other withdrawal symptoms. Which a) sounds far from a benign 'ooh, I'd really like a bit of cake but I'm on a diet, tut' and b) diet coke is a really lame 'up' to give you such a big 'down' from not doing it. It's hardly the joy of a cigarette or a beer. If I'm going to get withdrawal symptoms I'd have wanted to consume something better than diet coke to make it worthwhile.
And, of course, the result of the nonsensical nanny state sugar tax is that most soft drinks manufacturers have "reformulated", i.e. added a bunch more artificial sweetener to create a worse-tasting drink.
Absolutely right. And people noticed. Hence why Sanpellegrino had to bring the original recipe back.
It's no surprise to me that the big holdout is Coke, who obviously learnt from the New Coke debacle. They even call normal Coke "Original Taste", admitting what everyone knows - artificial sweeteners don't taste the same.
Since it gets discussed here so often, I'll make two comments on the great lab leak/zoonosis debate:
First, I think it unlikely that we in the West will ever know the answer for certain, unless the Chinese regime collapses. It is even possible that the regime does not know. In fact, I'll go further and say it is possible that the person(s), who first started the spread does(do) not know they did so. Or, if they do know, have destroyed all the evidence.
(It might be possible to trace back the virus to its origin(s) with enough genetic samples. I am not a virologist, so I don't have an informed opinion on those possibilities. But the Chinese aren't going to share them with us, even assuming they have them.)
Second, it seems to me that the endless label leak debate detracts attention from a subject where we can determine the answers: The West's response to the virus, which varied. We can learn something from those variations, if we are willing to face them honestly. For instance, how well did Florida Covernor DeSantis perform against COVID? Did other governors do better?
(Incidentally, I have found elsewhere that some Americans actually get angry when you raise such questions.)
Petrol prices are currently similar to when oil was ~£86 per barrel, today they have fallen to £67 per barrel, this implies garages are padding their margins by about 15-17%, while the CMA fannies about the total destruction of competition among petrol forecourts has meant rip off prices for drivers and haulage firms. The decision to allow Asda to be taken over and then the transfer of Asda garages to the parent has been a complete disaster for the nation. It has, IMO, been one of the major causes of fuel price inflation which has led to higher inflation rates than elsewhere in Europe where the market still functions normally. It's time for the government to step in and break up the sector.
I think you need to look at the refining spread too.
'a growing gap between the price of crude oil entering refineries and the wholesale price of petrol and diesel leaving them (the “refining spread”). This accounts for just over 40% of the growth in road fuel prices (24p per litre). Both demand-side factors (in particular, the post-COVID-19 recovery) and supply-side factors (in particular, the Russian invasion of Ukraine and the mothballing of refining capacity during COVID-19) appear to have played a role in driving up the refining spread.'
But that has stayed consistent over the last two months, if anything it should have gone down as more refining capacity has been opening up. This is pure retailer price gouging and margin padding.
+1 - I filled up with petrol at £1.519 a litre on Saturday by visiting the local Jet garage (which is at J59 of the A1M) and was a 2 minute diversion from the journey I was on.
Sainsburys is charging £1.609 at the moment.
It's clear when you look at the prices local independents garages are charging that the supermarkets and other chains are profiteering.
The Esso was 9p cheaper per litre than the Tesco according to my wife today. I was also suprised by that - used to the idea that the supermarkets are always cheaper. There's a Jet very near the Esso, so maybe they're having a bit of a local price war; Tesco further away.
Petrol prices are currently similar to when oil was ~£86 per barrel, today they have fallen to £67 per barrel, this implies garages are padding their margins by about 15-17%, while the CMA fannies about the total destruction of competition among petrol forecourts has meant rip off prices for drivers and haulage firms. The decision to allow Asda to be taken over and then the transfer of Asda garages to the parent has been a complete disaster for the nation. It has, IMO, been one of the major causes of fuel price inflation which has led to higher inflation rates than elsewhere in Europe where the market still functions normally. It's time for the government to step in and break up the sector.
I think you need to look at the refining spread too.
'a growing gap between the price of crude oil entering refineries and the wholesale price of petrol and diesel leaving them (the “refining spread”). This accounts for just over 40% of the growth in road fuel prices (24p per litre). Both demand-side factors (in particular, the post-COVID-19 recovery) and supply-side factors (in particular, the Russian invasion of Ukraine and the mothballing of refining capacity during COVID-19) appear to have played a role in driving up the refining spread.'
But that has stayed consistent over the last two months, if anything it should have gone down as more refining capacity has been opening up. This is pure retailer price gouging and margin padding.
+1 - I filled up with petrol at £1.519 a litre on Saturday by visiting the local Jet garage (which is at J59 of the A1M) and was a 2 minute diversion from the journey I was on.
Sainsburys is charging £1.609 at the moment.
It's clear when you look at the prices local independents garages are charging that the supermarkets and other chains are profiteering.
The Esso was 9p cheaper per litre than the Tesco according to my wife today. I was also suprised by that - used to the idea that the supermarkets are always cheaper. There's a Jet very near the Esso, so maybe they're having a bit of a local price war; Tesco further away.
Aren't you never supposed to buy supermarket petrol?
Worse - it's gold cans, which is caffeine free Diet Coke. Which completely misses all the point of Coke.
Caffeine free Diet Coke? I drink Diet Coke as I don't want to rot my teeth, but caffeine free . . . can't respect that.
Are you as kind to your teeth as you think? I'm no @turbotubbs but surely all fizzy drinks are acidic by virtue of the carbon dioxide dissolved in water, and probably citric acid for fruit-flavoured drinks, and phosphoric acid for full-fat Coke so probably Diet Coke as well. (Does pb have its own dentist? I vaguely think we used to.)
It is all total garbage. Why anyone would drink it is beyond me.
People drink it because they like it, and are thirsty.
Water is available.
Dost thou think because thou art virtuous there shall be no more cakes and ale?
Yes, by Saint Anne, and ginger shall be hot i' th' mouth too.
People like it.
Look at the list of ingredients on a can of diet coke or whatever and think which of those chemicals do I really want in my body? Water, that's it. We don't even know what some of these man made chemicals do to your body. And caffeine is a mood altering narcotic that's present in huge quantities in some of these drinks. I wouldn't touch any of them.
Worse - it's gold cans, which is caffeine free Diet Coke. Which completely misses all the point of Coke.
Caffeine free Diet Coke? I drink Diet Coke as I don't want to rot my teeth, but caffeine free . . . can't respect that.
Are you as kind to your teeth as you think? I'm no @turbotubbs but surely all fizzy drinks are acidic by virtue of the carbon dioxide dissolved in water, and probably citric acid for fruit-flavoured drinks, and phosphoric acid for full-fat Coke so probably Diet Coke as well. (Does pb have its own dentist? I vaguely think we used to.)
It is all total garbage. Why anyone would drink it is beyond me.
People drink it because they like it, and are thirsty.
Water is available.
Dost thou think because thou art virtuous there shall be no more cakes and ale?
Yes, by Saint Anne, and ginger shall be hot i' th' mouth too.
People like it.
Look at the list of ingredients on a can of diet coke or whatever and think which of those chemicals do I really want in my body? Water, that's it. We don't even know what some of these man made chemicals do to your body. And caffeine is a mood altering narcotic that's present in huge quantities in some of these drinks. I wouldn't touch any of them.
The NHS recommended diet drinks on the diabetes remission diet I have been on for the last 7 months.
Fills you up without calories (same as water) and helped me lose 35kg.
The only side effect i have noticed is it gives you a visceral hatred of SKS!!!
I don't trust diet coke, or artificial sweetener in general.
I read something on the internet (treat with appropriate caution) that while there are fewer calories in artifically sweetened drinks, aspartane inhibits your body from turning fat into energy. So you don't get the calories, but nor do you lose fat the normal way.
More concretely, I also know several women who have real problems kicking a diet coke habit - with proper cravings, headaches and other withdrawal symptoms. Which a) sounds far from a benign 'ooh, I'd really like a bit of cake but I'm on a diet, tut' and b) diet coke is a really lame 'up' to give you such a big 'down' from not doing it. It's hardly the joy of a cigarette or a beer. If I'm going to get withdrawal symptoms I'd have wanted to consume something better than diet coke to make it worthwhile.
And, of course, the result of the nonsensical nanny state sugar tax is that most soft drinks manufacturers have "reformulated", i.e. added a bunch more artificial sweetener to create a worse-tasting drink.
Absolutely right. And people noticed. Hence why Sanpellegrino had to bring the original recipe back.
It's no surprise to me that the big holdout is Coke, who obviously learnt from the New Coke debacle. They even call normal Coke "Original Taste", admitting what everyone knows - artificial sweeteners don't taste the same.
A friend swears by some 'natural' syrup alternatives (for coffees and the like) with 'natural sugars derived from plants' or some similar blurb on the bottle. Which is all fine, except the 'carbohydrate (of which sugars)' content is unsurprisingly up there with standard syrup and misses the point that sugar is itself a natural sugar derived from plants.
(Having said that, the evidence is clear. Sugar is bad for you in excess. Artifical sweeteners may be too, but there is a less clear evidence base for that. Other than the occasional diet coke - I prefer the taste - I don't have huge amounts of either; I prefer my coffee bitter. Anyway, I'm sweet enough already )
Petrol prices are currently similar to when oil was ~£86 per barrel, today they have fallen to £67 per barrel, this implies garages are padding their margins by about 15-17%, while the CMA fannies about the total destruction of competition among petrol forecourts has meant rip off prices for drivers and haulage firms. The decision to allow Asda to be taken over and then the transfer of Asda garages to the parent has been a complete disaster for the nation. It has, IMO, been one of the major causes of fuel price inflation which has led to higher inflation rates than elsewhere in Europe where the market still functions normally. It's time for the government to step in and break up the sector.
I think you need to look at the refining spread too.
'a growing gap between the price of crude oil entering refineries and the wholesale price of petrol and diesel leaving them (the “refining spread”). This accounts for just over 40% of the growth in road fuel prices (24p per litre). Both demand-side factors (in particular, the post-COVID-19 recovery) and supply-side factors (in particular, the Russian invasion of Ukraine and the mothballing of refining capacity during COVID-19) appear to have played a role in driving up the refining spread.'
But that has stayed consistent over the last two months, if anything it should have gone down as more refining capacity has been opening up. This is pure retailer price gouging and margin padding.
+1 - I filled up with petrol at £1.519 a litre on Saturday by visiting the local Jet garage (which is at J59 of the A1M) and was a 2 minute diversion from the journey I was on.
Sainsburys is charging £1.609 at the moment.
It's clear when you look at the prices local independents garages are charging that the supermarkets and other chains are profiteering.
The Esso was 9p cheaper per litre than the Tesco according to my wife today. I was also suprised by that - used to the idea that the supermarkets are always cheaper. There's a Jet very near the Esso, so maybe they're having a bit of a local price war; Tesco further away.
Aren't you never supposed to buy supermarket petrol?
I thought the supermarkets were meant to be cheap? My major point of comparison is motorway services so they always seemed pretty reasonable. Amazing Ghana - Korea game. Ghana held on to win 3-2, with their coach red carded at the end!
Petrol prices are currently similar to when oil was ~£86 per barrel, today they have fallen to £67 per barrel, this implies garages are padding their margins by about 15-17%, while the CMA fannies about the total destruction of competition among petrol forecourts has meant rip off prices for drivers and haulage firms. The decision to allow Asda to be taken over and then the transfer of Asda garages to the parent has been a complete disaster for the nation. It has, IMO, been one of the major causes of fuel price inflation which has led to higher inflation rates than elsewhere in Europe where the market still functions normally. It's time for the government to step in and break up the sector.
I think you need to look at the refining spread too.
'a growing gap between the price of crude oil entering refineries and the wholesale price of petrol and diesel leaving them (the “refining spread”). This accounts for just over 40% of the growth in road fuel prices (24p per litre). Both demand-side factors (in particular, the post-COVID-19 recovery) and supply-side factors (in particular, the Russian invasion of Ukraine and the mothballing of refining capacity during COVID-19) appear to have played a role in driving up the refining spread.'
But that has stayed consistent over the last two months, if anything it should have gone down as more refining capacity has been opening up. This is pure retailer price gouging and margin padding.
+1 - I filled up with petrol at £1.519 a litre on Saturday by visiting the local Jet garage (which is at J59 of the A1M) and was a 2 minute diversion from the journey I was on.
Sainsburys is charging £1.609 at the moment.
It's clear when you look at the prices local independents garages are charging that the supermarkets and other chains are profiteering.
The Esso was 9p cheaper per litre than the Tesco according to my wife today. I was also suprised by that - used to the idea that the supermarkets are always cheaper. There's a Jet very near the Esso, so maybe they're having a bit of a local price war; Tesco further away.
The indispensible Petrol Prices app tells me that the cheapest petrol near me by 2p is the Co-op which is usually the most expensive in the local area at 157.9 with Asda 159.7 and lots of supermarket and non-supermarket brands at 159.9. For diesel Asda is 182.7, Tesco 182.9 and a whole bunch at 183.9.
So if one of these price wars would come my way I would appreciate it!
Worse - it's gold cans, which is caffeine free Diet Coke. Which completely misses all the point of Coke.
Caffeine free Diet Coke? I drink Diet Coke as I don't want to rot my teeth, but caffeine free . . . can't respect that.
Are you as kind to your teeth as you think? I'm no @turbotubbs but surely all fizzy drinks are acidic by virtue of the carbon dioxide dissolved in water, and probably citric acid for fruit-flavoured drinks, and phosphoric acid for full-fat Coke so probably Diet Coke as well. (Does pb have its own dentist? I vaguely think we used to.)
It is all total garbage. Why anyone would drink it is beyond me.
People drink it because they like it, and are thirsty.
Water is available.
Dost thou think because thou art virtuous there shall be no more cakes and ale?
Yes, by Saint Anne, and ginger shall be hot i' th' mouth too.
People like it.
Look at the list of ingredients on a can of diet coke or whatever and think which of those chemicals do I really want in my body? Water, that's it. We don't even know what some of these man made chemicals do to your body. And caffeine is a mood altering narcotic that's present in huge quantities in some of these drinks. I wouldn't touch any of them.
Thats going a bit far. Any chemical allowed for human consumption has been tested, and there is no difference in how 'man-made' chemicals behave and natural ones. But yes, water is a far better option.
There can be quite a difference in the presence of given chemicals between natural and man made foodstuffs, though. The jury is still out on the long term health effects of aspartame, which is not something you'll find much of in natural foodstuffs, for example: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8227014/
I'd agree with that. I always challenge anyone who believes 'man-made' chemicals are intrinsically bad as the atoms don't know anything different.
Nothing inherently bad but I'd rather my diet was composed mainly of things that humans have been eating for centuries without getting cancer or becoming morbidly obese. Clearly something has gone wrong with the average British diet and lifestyle in the last few decades, judging by the state of people. I'm sure all the garbage food and drink that people consume has something to do with it, alongside a sedentary lifestyle.
Or maybe the incidence of cancer is a factor of living longer lives which gives more chance for cancerous mutations to take place. No idea if it is definitely the case but my suspicion would be there is a strong correlation. When the average life span was 30 years probably wasnt a lot of scope to develop cancer before death by mammoth occurred
Petrol prices are currently similar to when oil was ~£86 per barrel, today they have fallen to £67 per barrel, this implies garages are padding their margins by about 15-17%, while the CMA fannies about the total destruction of competition among petrol forecourts has meant rip off prices for drivers and haulage firms. The decision to allow Asda to be taken over and then the transfer of Asda garages to the parent has been a complete disaster for the nation. It has, IMO, been one of the major causes of fuel price inflation which has led to higher inflation rates than elsewhere in Europe where the market still functions normally. It's time for the government to step in and break up the sector.
I think you need to look at the refining spread too.
'a growing gap between the price of crude oil entering refineries and the wholesale price of petrol and diesel leaving them (the “refining spread”). This accounts for just over 40% of the growth in road fuel prices (24p per litre). Both demand-side factors (in particular, the post-COVID-19 recovery) and supply-side factors (in particular, the Russian invasion of Ukraine and the mothballing of refining capacity during COVID-19) appear to have played a role in driving up the refining spread.'
But that has stayed consistent over the last two months, if anything it should have gone down as more refining capacity has been opening up. This is pure retailer price gouging and margin padding.
+1 - I filled up with petrol at £1.519 a litre on Saturday by visiting the local Jet garage (which is at J59 of the A1M) and was a 2 minute diversion from the journey I was on.
Sainsburys is charging £1.609 at the moment.
It's clear when you look at the prices local independents garages are charging that the supermarkets and other chains are profiteering.
The Esso was 9p cheaper per litre than the Tesco according to my wife today. I was also suprised by that - used to the idea that the supermarkets are always cheaper. There's a Jet very near the Esso, so maybe they're having a bit of a local price war; Tesco further away.
Aren't you never supposed to buy supermarket petrol?
I thought the supermarkets were meant to be cheap? My major point of comparison is motorway services so they always seemed pretty reasonable. Amazing Ghana - Korea game. Ghana held on to win 3-2, with their coach red carded at the end!
I thought it was a quality issue. Perhaps an urban myth. @Driver (clue in the name) - or @Dura_Ace ?
Worse - it's gold cans, which is caffeine free Diet Coke. Which completely misses all the point of Coke.
Caffeine free Diet Coke? I drink Diet Coke as I don't want to rot my teeth, but caffeine free . . . can't respect that.
Are you as kind to your teeth as you think? I'm no @turbotubbs but surely all fizzy drinks are acidic by virtue of the carbon dioxide dissolved in water, and probably citric acid for fruit-flavoured drinks, and phosphoric acid for full-fat Coke so probably Diet Coke as well. (Does pb have its own dentist? I vaguely think we used to.)
It is all total garbage. Why anyone would drink it is beyond me.
People drink it because they like it, and are thirsty.
Water is available.
Dost thou think because thou art virtuous there shall be no more cakes and ale?
Yes, by Saint Anne, and ginger shall be hot i' th' mouth too.
People like it.
Look at the list of ingredients on a can of diet coke or whatever and think which of those chemicals do I really want in my body? Water, that's it. We don't even know what some of these man made chemicals do to your body. And caffeine is a mood altering narcotic that's present in huge quantities in some of these drinks. I wouldn't touch any of them.
The NHS recommended diet drinks on the diabetes remission diet I have been on for the last 7 months.
Fills you up without calories (same as water) and helped me lose 35kg.
The only side effect i have noticed is it gives you a visceral hatred of SKS!!!
I don't trust diet coke, or artificial sweetener in general.
I read something on the internet (treat with appropriate caution) that while there are fewer calories in artifically sweetened drinks, aspartane inhibits your body from turning fat into energy. So you don't get the calories, but nor do you lose fat the normal way.
More concretely, I also know several women who have real problems kicking a diet coke habit - with proper cravings, headaches and other withdrawal symptoms. Which a) sounds far from a benign 'ooh, I'd really like a bit of cake but I'm on a diet, tut' and b) diet coke is a really lame 'up' to give you such a big 'down' from not doing it. It's hardly the joy of a cigarette or a beer. If I'm going to get withdrawal symptoms I'd have wanted to consume something better than diet coke to make it worthwhile.
And, of course, the result of the nonsensical nanny state sugar tax is that most soft drinks manufacturers have "reformulated", i.e. added a bunch more artificial sweetener to create a worse-tasting drink.
Absolutely right. And people noticed. Hence why Sanpellegrino had to bring the original recipe back.
It's no surprise to me that the big holdout is Coke, who obviously learnt from the New Coke debacle. They even call normal Coke "Original Taste", admitting what everyone knows - artificial sweeteners don't taste the same.
A friend swears by some 'natural' syrup alternatives (for coffees and the like) with 'natural sugars derived from plants' or some similar blurb on the bottle. Which is all fine, except the 'carbohydrate (of which sugars)' content is unsurprisingly up there with standard syrup and misses the point that sugar is itself a natural sugar derived from plants.
(Having said that, the evidence is clear. Sugar is bad for you in excess. Artifical sweeteners may be too, but there is a less clear evidence base for that. Other than the occasional diet coke - I prefer the taste - I don't have huge amounts of either; I prefer my coffee bitter. Anyway, I'm sweet enough already )
Coke of course has different recipes for different regions/tastes.
Comments
Where are the state school spaces that will be required as more parents admit defeat and send their children to a state school.
BTW, going to a state school isn't a "defeat".
Rice and beans are available, doesn't mean that's all people want to eat.
Yes, by Saint Anne, and ginger shall be hot i' th' mouth too.
People like it.
Are you denying scientist generally are more evidence based than astrologers, people with gut feelings and conspiracy theorists which is what I said. You are deluded if you do.
You are rather coming over as someone who failed in science and are rather envious of those that haven't.
And also I note in the last couple of posts you have 'attacked the man' so a hypocrite to boot.
And it's a joint Swedish/US program.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2022/11/27/biden-ukraine-weapons/
How miserable.
Lib Dems are attempting to amend the Finance Bill at Committee Stage to have Hunt write to every single taxpayer dragged into paying income tax or higher band with an explanation of how much more tax they are paying...
Not so stealthy that way!
https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1597222691647279106/photo/1
When you are straw-mannig astrologers you are losing.
Have had successful careers as a lawyer and an historian. Hampered obv by my non-sciency difficulty with the whole evidence thing.
Only one coffee a day? What would the world be coming to?
DWP data is now on Stat-Xplore, a versatile open data tool. The password bit is deceptive: you can bypass by clicking ‘Guest log in’ to find an Alladin’s Cave of data. Look at the dataset ‘Benefit Combinations – Data from February 2019'. Click Table 5, then click ‘Open table’ to get the numbers. A wheel appears while it computes, then the following table is revealed:
Add the figures on the right-hand column and you get 5.2 million. A call to the DWP press office will confirm that there is no overlap (every person is put in the category of the highest benefit they claim) and that 'out of work' is indeed the best phrase to describe them. The DWP offer no on-the-record guidance, for reasons that I’m unclear about. ‘Incap’ is Incapacity Benefit (or Employment Support Allowance – ESA – as it’s now known). IS is Income Support, which is being phased out. JSA is Jobseeker’s Allowance, now mostly replaced by the out-of-work part of Universal Credit.
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/yes-five-million-are-on-out-of-work-benefits-heres-the-proof/
Has Fraser Nelson got this correct or is he making some mistake somewhere e.g. there is some double counting going on somewhere?
The jury is still out on the long term health effects of aspartame, which is not something you'll find much of in natural foodstuffs, for example:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8227014/
South Korea 0
52 mins
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/road-fuel-review/road-fuel-review#:~:text=For petrol, the average refining,per litre in June 2022.
'a growing gap between the price of crude oil entering refineries and the wholesale price of petrol and diesel leaving them (the “refining spread”). This accounts for just over 40% of the growth in road fuel prices (24p per litre). Both demand-side factors (in particular, the post-COVID-19 recovery) and supply-side factors (in particular, the Russian invasion of Ukraine and the mothballing of refining capacity during COVID-19) appear to have played a role in driving up the refining spread.'
Believe me, when I was diagnosed with leukemia I thought long and hard about why it had happened. I fixated on a piece of metal in my knee from a surgical repair a few years before. But in reality it was just a mutation that can happen to anyone and happens to 160 people a year in the UK.
Anyway, pretty much every plant leaf is trying to kill things, so I presume fruitarian must be the only safe way to go?
Though you've no idea what the fruit tree has been drinking, either.
Also bringing another regular feature of someone who uses 'ad hominem', ad nauseam, the 'strawman'. If you go back and read my posts you will see:
a) I brought it in right at the beginning
b) It was one of a list that I brought in, including conspiracy theorists which was the actual basis of the argument
So not a strawman argument at all is it? You were arguing against it from the beginning. Fails the definition of strawman.
I tell you what next time I'm feeling a little unwell I'll come and ask you what is wrong with me rather than my wife (a Doctor) because clearly as a non scientist you will assess the evidence presented better than her.
For goodness sake to keep arguing that in general (and the in general is key and something I have always said) scientists do not rely on evidence more than the average person is just plain bonkers.
As I said before you really do seem to have a huge chip on your shoulder re scientists.
That ball must have been very close to going out of play before the cross. I don't know whether they can check that with the technology.
Fills you up without calories (same as water) and helped me lose 35kg.
The only side effect i have noticed is it gives you a visceral hatred of SKS!!!
And nobody's stopping you drinking sickly sweet over-caffeinated chemical gloop, knock yourself out. Like a lot of people on the right you're confusing people disagreeing with you with people being authoritarian.
Oh and 3-2 to Ghana. This is a great game.
I read something on the internet (treat with appropriate caution) that while there are fewer calories in artifically sweetened drinks, aspartane inhibits your body from turning fat into energy. So you don't get the calories, but nor do you lose fat the normal way.
More concretely, I also know several women who have real problems kicking a diet coke habit - with proper cravings, headaches and other withdrawal symptoms. Which a) sounds far from a benign 'ooh, I'd really like a bit of cake but I'm on a diet, tut' and b) diet coke is a really lame 'up' to give you such a big 'down' from not doing it. It's hardly the joy of a cigarette or a beer. If I'm going to get withdrawal symptoms I'd have wanted to consume something better than diet coke to make it worthwhile.
Hancock’s book on the pandemic is already a best seller on Amazon after his nightly appearances on I’m a Celebrity. Guido can reveal that Hancock has sold story serialisation to the Mail, for a price that would make you choke more than eating a cow’s anus…
https://order-order.com/2022/11/28/exclusive-hancock-rakes-in-dingo-dollars-after-free-im-a-celebrity-publicity/
"First, it’s important to note that Republicans and Democrats have very different rules.
As befits the parties’ different inclinations toward state vs. federal power. Democrats have for more than four decades imposed on states a requirement that delegates be allocated proportionally. (Those with really, really long memories may recall the 1972 convention fight over whether California could use its winner-take-all approach. It could — and that was the key to George McGovern’s nomination — but it was the beginning of the end of that approach.)
By contrast, the Republican National Committee pretty much leaves the decision up to the states. Once the first wave of contests is over, the GOP can use proportional representation; winner-take-all by congressional district; winner-take-all by state if a candidate gets 50 percent of the vote, or winner-take-all by plurality. In recent years, that’s meant many Republican primaries have ended up in some version of the winner-take-all."
source: https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2022/11/25/trump-2024-presidential-election-00070677
If the parties had magically switched rules in 2016, Trump might have faced a fight at the convention, and Clinton would have been declared the Democratic nominee far sooner.
(Why the different rules? Simplifying a bit, Republicans have chosen winner-take-all because it makes a prolonged and damaging fight less likely; Democrats have chosen proportionality to be fairer to minorities.)
HIJKLMNO (5)
Either drink the proper stuff or drink water.
Real Coca Cola remains one of the greatest recipes of all time: a sophisticated balance of sweet, sour and spice and a beautiful accompaniment for fine rum, when mixed properly.
Sainsburys is charging £1.609 at the moment.
It's clear when you look at the prices local independents garages are charging that the supermarkets and other chains are profiteering.
https://www.talkingretail.com/products-news/soft-drinks/sanpellegrino-brings-back-classic-italian-taste-range-24-06-2020/
First, I think it unlikely that we in the West will ever know the answer for certain, unless the Chinese regime collapses. It is even possible that the regime does not know. In fact, I'll go further and say it is possible that the person(s), who first started the spread does(do) not know they did so. Or, if they do know, have destroyed all the evidence.
(It might be possible to trace back the virus to its origin(s) with enough genetic samples. I am not a virologist, so I don't have an informed opinion on those possibilities. But the Chinese aren't going to share them with us, even assuming they have them.)
There is a sobering historical example on the difficulites of tracing such leaks from Sverdlovsk: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sverdlovsk_anthrax_leak
Second, it seems to me that the endless label leak debate detracts attention from a subject where we can determine the answers: The West's response to the virus, which varied. We can learn something from those variations, if we are willing to face them honestly. For instance, how well did Florida Covernor DeSantis perform against COVID? Did other governors do better?
(Incidentally, I have found elsewhere that some Americans actually get angry when you raise such questions.)
If we had such a big vampire problme, I think it would have received more coverage, even from our journalists.
(Having said that, the evidence is clear. Sugar is bad for you in excess. Artifical sweeteners may be too, but there is a less clear evidence base for that. Other than the occasional diet coke - I prefer the taste - I don't have huge amounts of either; I prefer my coffee bitter. Anyway, I'm sweet enough already
Amazing Ghana - Korea game. Ghana held on to win 3-2, with their coach red carded at the end!
So if one of these price wars would come my way I would appreciate it!
In the middle east it is super sweet for example.
Oxygen can be very nasty, and water can kill via its osmotic pressure or lack of it.