ECHR withdrawal in 2022? – politicalbetting.com

Scott_xP said:

Monday’s SUN: “We regret to announce that this country is returning to the 1970s” #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/1538635409701408770/photo/1

Leon said:

Speaking English is an exorbitant privilege


I was able to go on the lash with my new Russian friends last night - because they both speak English so the entire evening was spent speaking English even tho we were in Armenia and they were two Russians with one Englishman

They simply accepted that we all should speak English, no problem

We should thank our noble ancestors who went around the world conquering it, seeding our tongue everywhere, meaning that we lazy Brits can now go anywhere we like and we can expect to be understood in our own native language, born in our land

No other country enjoys this good fortune

BartholomewRoberts said:

Nigelb said:

rottenborough said:

Nigelb said:

Russian state-controlled news agency Interfax reported, citing the Russian military, that more than 1.9 million Ukrainians have been forcibly deported to Russia since the start of the invasion, over 307,000 of them children.
https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1538461156544847872

We cannot appease this Macron.

Europe will never be safe again.

Macron ?

Yes.

Macron is the one wanting to appease this. Macron needs to realise we can't and shouldn't.

Benpointer said:

Scott_xP said:

Monday’s SUN: “We regret to announce that this country is returning to the 1970s” #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/1538635409701408770/photo/1

Did Scotland qualify for the World Cup and not England?

BartholomewRoberts said:

Leon said:

Speaking English is an exorbitant privilege


I was able to go on the lash with my new Russian friends last night - because they both speak English so the entire evening was spent speaking English even tho we were in Armenia and they were two Russians with one Englishman

They simply accepted that we all should speak English, no problem

We should thank our noble ancestors who went around the world conquering it, seeding our tongue everywhere, meaning that we lazy Brits can now go anywhere we like and we can expect to be understood in our own native language, born in our land

No other country enjoys this good fortune

No other country except all the other English speaking countries.

Which is now quintessentially every educated country.

Foxy said:

Scott_xP said:

Monday’s TIMES: Teachers and doctors threaten to join strikes” #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/1538633085666971650/photo/1

Yep. Not accepting 2%. It is an insult.

state_go_away said:

never really understood the ruling on prisoners voting from the ECHR - Sounds a fudge to me given its logical that prisoners shoudl not have the vote or they do have the vote - Surely its just shifting this stuff about not allowing blanket bans on voting to allowing blanket bans on certain categories of prisoners . Ie all those serving (say) five years or more cannot vote - well thats just as much a blanket ban on those prisoners as it is on all prisoners.

Never really respected the law courts (of whatever form) as much as others do on here tbh

Foxy said:

Scott_xP said:

Monday’s TIMES: Teachers and doctors threaten to join strikes” #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/1538633085666971650/photo/1

Yep. Not accepting 2%. It is an insult.

Leon said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Leon said:

Speaking English is an exorbitant privilege


I was able to go on the lash with my new Russian friends last night - because they both speak English so the entire evening was spent speaking English even tho we were in Armenia and they were two Russians with one Englishman

They simply accepted that we all should speak English, no problem

We should thank our noble ancestors who went around the world conquering it, seeding our tongue everywhere, meaning that we lazy Brits can now go anywhere we like and we can expect to be understood in our own native language, born in our land

No other country enjoys this good fortune

No other country except all the other English speaking countries.

Which is now quintessentially every educated country.

understood in our own native language, born in our land

Foxy said:

Benpointer said:

Scott_xP said:

Monday’s SUN: “We regret to announce that this country is returning to the 1970s” #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/1538635409701408770/photo/1

Did Scotland qualify for the World Cup and not England?

At least the music is better.

NickPalmer said:

state_go_away said:

never really understood the ruling on prisoners voting from the ECHR - Sounds a fudge to me given its logical that prisoners shoudl not have the vote or they do have the vote - Surely its just shifting this stuff about not allowing blanket bans on voting to allowing blanket bans on certain categories of prisoners . Ie all those serving (say) five years or more cannot vote - well thats just as much a blanket ban on those prisoners as it is on all prisoners.

Never really respected the law courts (of whatever form) as much as others do on here tbh

My understanding of the ruling is that if Parliament wants to impose a ban on voting as an additional penalty for some offences or indeed for every offence, then fine, let them pass a law saying so. What is illegal is to just say "By the way, we're taking your vote away too" without a legal basis.

pigeon said:

Foxy said:

Scott_xP said:

Monday’s TIMES: Teachers and doctors threaten to join strikes” #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/1538633085666971650/photo/1

Yep. Not accepting 2%. It is an insult.

Do you think that the health unions will insist on at least inflation, or settle for some kind of compromise?

Leon said:

rottenborough said:

Nigelb said:

.

BartholomewRoberts said:

Nigelb said:

rottenborough said:

Nigelb said:

Russian state-controlled news agency Interfax reported, citing the Russian military, that more than 1.9 million Ukrainians have been forcibly deported to Russia since the start of the invasion, over 307,000 of them children.
https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1538461156544847872

We cannot appease this Macron.

Europe will never be safe again.

Macron ?

Yes.

Macron is the one wanting to appease this. Macron needs to realise we can't and shouldn't.

Ah, a missing comma.
“We cannot appease this, Macron” makes sense.

The french need to stop pretending they can be some incredibly important mushy link and buffer between the US and RU superpowers and wake up and smell the coffee. This is a fight for european democracy and freedom and there will be only one winner.

Putin would kill every one of Macron's citizens at the drop of a hat if he could get away with it.

No, he wouldn’t.

Putin is monstrous but he’s not Satan. He doesn’t desire death in and for itself. He wants Russia to be great. How would “killing every French person” enable that?

We have enough of an enemy in Vlad, already, we don’t need hyperbole

Applicant said:

Foxy said:

Scott_xP said:

Monday’s TIMES: Teachers and doctors threaten to join strikes” #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/1538633085666971650/photo/1

Yep. Not accepting 2%. It is an insult.

2% more than I'm likely to get.

Leon said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Leon said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Leon said:

Speaking English is an exorbitant privilege


I was able to go on the lash with my new Russian friends last night - because they both speak English so the entire evening was spent speaking English even tho we were in Armenia and they were two Russians with one Englishman

They simply accepted that we all should speak English, no problem

We should thank our noble ancestors who went around the world conquering it, seeding our tongue everywhere, meaning that we lazy Brits can now go anywhere we like and we can expect to be understood in our own native language, born in our land

No other country enjoys this good fortune

No other country except all the other English speaking countries.

Which is now quintessentially every educated country.

understood in our own native language, born in our land

Yes, Americans can understand people in their own native language, born in their land too.

My second line was a joke, with more than a hint of truth to it too though. English is now essentially a native language for much of the developed world even if its not officially the "first" language.

I sometimes wonder if English will actually replace some native languages - even in Europe

Danish? Maybe even Swedish? Dutch?

The young speak English so well they might as well be English, and they will happily speak it to each other. That’s an alarm bell for any language

Foxy said:

Applicant said:

Foxy said:

Scott_xP said:

Monday’s TIMES: Teachers and doctors threaten to join strikes” #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/1538633085666971650/photo/1

Yep. Not accepting 2%. It is an insult.

2% more than I'm likely to get.

"Average total pay growth for the private sector was 8.2% in January to March 2022, and for the public sector was 1.6% in the same time period; the finance and business services sector showed the largest growth rate (10.7%), partly because of strong bonus payments"

From:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/bulletins/averageweeklyearningsingreatbritain/may2022

Foxy said:

Applicant said:

Foxy said:

Scott_xP said:

Monday’s TIMES: Teachers and doctors threaten to join strikes” #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/1538633085666971650/photo/1

Yep. Not accepting 2%. It is an insult.

2% more than I'm likely to get.

"Average total pay growth for the private sector was 8.2% in January to March 2022, and for the public sector was 1.6% in the same time period; the finance and business services sector showed the largest growth rate (10.7%), partly because of strong bonus payments"

From:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/bulletins/averageweeklyearningsingreatbritain/may2022

BartholomewRoberts said:

dixiedean said:

Foxy said:

Applicant said:

Foxy said:

Scott_xP said:

Monday’s TIMES: Teachers and doctors threaten to join strikes” #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/1538633085666971650/photo/1

Yep. Not accepting 2%. It is an insult.

2% more than I'm likely to get.

"Average total pay growth for the private sector was 8.2% in January to March 2022, and for the public sector was 1.6% in the same time period; the finance and business services sector showed the largest growth rate (10.7%), partly because of strong bonus payments"

From:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/bulletins/averageweeklyearningsingreatbritain/may2022

Key point.
Public sector hasn't been struggling to recruit before.
Market forces are at work. The invisible hand will ensure a large pay settlement. If you have faith in it.

Absolutely, if public sector staff are prepared to quit to get better paid jobs elsewhere, and nobody else is queueing up to fill the roles, then their employers will have no alternative but to pay more to replace them.

If they're not prepared to though, that's not the invisible hand that's acting.

IshmaelZ said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

SandyRentool said:

As a result of the rail strike I will not be travelling to London or Manchester this week, as previously anticipated.

So no early starts and no ironing of work clothes.

Thank you Comrades!

Good thing I went to Manchester* last Thursday!

(*to do the Trafford Centre tram line, opened 2020)

How many drops was that for you, Sunil?

dixiedean said:

The point is of course that we have a government that professes to believe in market forces.
Except they refuse to offer the market rate

EPG said:

A bunch of reasons why they don't switch to English, as a manager of Euro English speakers:
The obvious national and emotional reasons. It's highly impractical to learn the Nordic languages anywhere outside the Nordic countries. Nor do many people learn Dutch. The language is tied to nationhood in a way not true in English speaking countries. Also true in France and other places under minimal threat from English.
As a corollary of the impracticality of overseas education, states like Denmark and Sweden like to use their native languages as a discretionary labour market barrier for skilled work. Want a good job in the civil service? You better speak Danish.
Your kids are going to speak Finnish in the school system anyway.
If you both work, your parents are going to teach your kids Finnish anyway.
Your kids are going to learn English from the internets anyway.

BartholomewRoberts said:

dixiedean said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

dixiedean said:

Foxy said:

Applicant said:

Foxy said:

Scott_xP said:

Monday’s TIMES: Teachers and doctors threaten to join strikes” #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/1538633085666971650/photo/1

Yep. Not accepting 2%. It is an insult.

2% more than I'm likely to get.

"Average total pay growth for the private sector was 8.2% in January to March 2022, and for the public sector was 1.6% in the same time period; the finance and business services sector showed the largest growth rate (10.7%), partly because of strong bonus payments"

From:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/bulletins/averageweeklyearningsingreatbritain/may2022

Key point.
Public sector hasn't been struggling to recruit before.
Market forces are at work. The invisible hand will ensure a large pay settlement. If you have faith in it.

Absolutely, if public sector staff are prepared to quit to get better paid jobs elsewhere, and nobody else is queueing up to fill the roles, then their employers will have no alternative but to pay more to replace them.

If they're not prepared to though, that's not the invisible hand that's acting.

They are.
Which is why 2 or 3% won't stand.
And why your kids won't have a teacher. But a week by week contractor.
You may like that. But millions won't.

If that's the case, there's absolutely no reason to strike, is there?

eek said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

dixiedean said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

dixiedean said:

Foxy said:

Applicant said:

Foxy said:

Scott_xP said:

Monday’s TIMES: Teachers and doctors threaten to join strikes” #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/1538633085666971650/photo/1

Yep. Not accepting 2%. It is an insult.

2% more than I'm likely to get.

"Average total pay growth for the private sector was 8.2% in January to March 2022, and for the public sector was 1.6% in the same time period; the finance and business services sector showed the largest growth rate (10.7%), partly because of strong bonus payments"

From:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/bulletins/averageweeklyearningsingreatbritain/may2022

Key point.
Public sector hasn't been struggling to recruit before.
Market forces are at work. The invisible hand will ensure a large pay settlement. If you have faith in it.

Absolutely, if public sector staff are prepared to quit to get better paid jobs elsewhere, and nobody else is queueing up to fill the roles, then their employers will have no alternative but to pay more to replace them.

If they're not prepared to though, that's not the invisible hand that's acting.

They are.
Which is why 2 or 3% won't stand.
And why your kids won't have a teacher. But a week by week contractor.
You may like that. But millions won't.

If that's the case, there's absolutely no reason to strike, is there?

Many people strike as the final attempt to get something fixed before they leave the industry.

And supply teachers are getting harder to find so don’t think the week by week contractors exist to fix the problem

Leon said:

EPG said:

A bunch of reasons why they don't switch to English, as a manager of Euro English speakers:
The obvious national and emotional reasons. It's highly impractical to learn the Nordic languages anywhere outside the Nordic countries. Nor do many people learn Dutch. The language is tied to nationhood in a way not true in English speaking countries. Also true in France and other places under minimal threat from English.
As a corollary of the impracticality of overseas education, states like Denmark and Sweden like to use their native languages as a discretionary labour market barrier for skilled work. Want a good job in the civil service? You better speak Danish.
Your kids are going to speak Finnish in the school system anyway.
If you both work, your parents are going to teach your kids Finnish anyway.
Your kids are going to learn English from the internets anyway.

But a language can exist, officially and formally, it can even be seen as primary, and yet it dies, as English overwhelms

Irish Gaelic is a classic example

This is a good thing. The sooner everyone on earth speaks god’s own language, the Queen’s English, the sooner we will all get on. Get rid of these silly little dialects

After that, we just have to make sure everyone plays cricket

Leon said:

EPG said:

A bunch of reasons why they don't switch to English, as a manager of Euro English speakers:
The obvious national and emotional reasons. It's highly impractical to learn the Nordic languages anywhere outside the Nordic countries. Nor do many people learn Dutch. The language is tied to nationhood in a way not true in English speaking countries. Also true in France and other places under minimal threat from English.
As a corollary of the impracticality of overseas education, states like Denmark and Sweden like to use their native languages as a discretionary labour market barrier for skilled work. Want a good job in the civil service? You better speak Danish.
Your kids are going to speak Finnish in the school system anyway.
If you both work, your parents are going to teach your kids Finnish anyway.
Your kids are going to learn English from the internets anyway.

But a language can exist, officially and formally, it can even be seen as primary, and yet it dies, as English overwhelms

Irish Gaelic is a classic example

This is a good thing. The sooner everyone on earth speaks god’s own language, the Queen’s English, the sooner we will all get on. Get rid of these silly little dialects

After that, we just have to make sure everyone plays cricket

BartholomewRoberts said:

dixiedean said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

dixiedean said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

dixiedean said:

Foxy said:

Applicant said:

Foxy said:

Scott_xP said:

Monday’s TIMES: Teachers and doctors threaten to join strikes” #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/1538633085666971650/photo/1

Yep. Not accepting 2%. It is an insult.

2% more than I'm likely to get.

"Average total pay growth for the private sector was 8.2% in January to March 2022, and for the public sector was 1.6% in the same time period; the finance and business services sector showed the largest growth rate (10.7%), partly because of strong bonus payments"

From:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/bulletins/averageweeklyearningsingreatbritain/may2022

Key point.
Public sector hasn't been struggling to recruit before.
Market forces are at work. The invisible hand will ensure a large pay settlement. If you have faith in it.

Absolutely, if public sector staff are prepared to quit to get better paid jobs elsewhere, and nobody else is queueing up to fill the roles, then their employers will have no alternative but to pay more to replace them.

If they're not prepared to though, that's not the invisible hand that's acting.

They are.
Which is why 2 or 3% won't stand.
And why your kids won't have a teacher. But a week by week contractor.
You may like that. But millions won't.

If that's the case, there's absolutely no reason to strike, is there?

Only if you think Primary School kids need a regular teacher.
In your world that is bizarre I realise.

In my world my kids have a regular teacher.

If they don't, the school should sort it out so that they do. Any schools incapable of ensuring their classes are taught by a regular teacher ought to be able to sort themselves out.

Stuartinromford said:

Foxy said:

Applicant said:

Foxy said:

Scott_xP said:

Monday’s TIMES: Teachers and doctors threaten to join strikes” #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/1538633085666971650/photo/1

Yep. Not accepting 2%. It is an insult.

2% more than I'm likely to get.

"Average total pay growth for the private sector was 8.2% in January to March 2022, and for the public sector was 1.6% in the same time period; the finance and business services sector showed the largest growth rate (10.7%), partly because of strong bonus payments"

From:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/bulletins/averageweeklyearningsingreatbritain/may2022

Various ways of thinking about "how big a rise is enough?"

5% is probably sellable enough to weaken strike moves- precedent of ScotRail, share pain equally between employees and employers, that sort of thing.

Goodness only knows what's needed to stave off recruitment crunches. Quite a lot more, I suspect.

And politically, a government presiding over that big a fall in living standards will have to work awfully hard to be re-elected.

How much train driving, healthcare and teaching is the British public willing and able to pay for? And what happens if the answer to that question is "less"?

kle4 said:

Jonathan said:

Alas, American English is the lingua Franca. You ‘realize’ that when you have your perfectly good English ‘corrected’ by a German.

Meh. Minor issues of spelling and pronunciation don't matter, if English speakers cared about that it wouldn't be so widespread even with american cultural dominance.

Foxy said:

dixiedean said:

The point is of course that we have a government that professes to believe in market forces.
Except they refuse to offer the market rate

Yeah right, they are keen on market forces up to the point that it is to the workers advantage, then they couldn't give a damn.

Leon said:

I sometimes wonder if English will actually replace some native languages - even in Europe

Danish? Maybe even Swedish? Dutch?

The young speak English so well they might as well be English, and they will happily speak it to each other. That’s an alarm bell for any language

Jonathan said:

Alas, American English is the lingua Franca. You ‘realize’ that when you have your perfectly good English ‘corrected’ by a German.

Benpointer said:

eek said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

eek said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

dixiedean said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

dixiedean said:

Foxy said:

Applicant said:

Foxy said:

Scott_xP said:

Monday’s TIMES: Teachers and doctors threaten to join strikes” #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/1538633085666971650/photo/1

Yep. Not accepting 2%. It is an insult.

2% more than I'm likely to get.

"Average total pay growth for the private sector was 8.2% in January to March 2022, and for the public sector was 1.6% in the same time period; the finance and business services sector showed the largest growth rate (10.7%), partly because of strong bonus payments"

From:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/bulletins/averageweeklyearningsingreatbritain/may2022

Key point.
Public sector hasn't been struggling to recruit before.
Market forces are at work. The invisible hand will ensure a large pay settlement. If you have faith in it.

Absolutely, if public sector staff are prepared to quit to get better paid jobs elsewhere, and nobody else is queueing up to fill the roles, then their employers will have no alternative but to pay more to replace them.

If they're not prepared to though, that's not the invisible hand that's acting.

They are.
Which is why 2 or 3% won't stand.
And why your kids won't have a teacher. But a week by week contractor.
You may like that. But millions won't.

If that's the case, there's absolutely no reason to strike, is there?

Many people strike as the final attempt to get something fixed before they leave the industry.

And supply teachers are getting harder to find so don’t think the week by week contractors exist to fix the problem

If they aren't, deregulate wages and let the market sort it out.

There is no reason the state should be getting involved in wage levels. If the supply of teachers are short in a particular area, then wages should be able to go up, if there's an overabundance elsewhere then wages might stagnate. Why should the government be involved either way?

You’ve clearly never been a school governor then (and clearly not one who deals with finance).

Simple fact is that if wages go up schools need either more money or the number of teachers will drop because there really isn’t anything else that can be cut.

Heck a lot of schools will have less teachers come September to reflect higher fuel costs

...fewer teachers...

(Sorry)

eek said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

eek said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

eek said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

dixiedean said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

dixiedean said:

Foxy said:

Applicant said:

Foxy said:

Scott_xP said:

Monday’s TIMES: Teachers and doctors threaten to join strikes” #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/1538633085666971650/photo/1

Yep. Not accepting 2%. It is an insult.

2% more than I'm likely to get.

"Average total pay growth for the private sector was 8.2% in January to March 2022, and for the public sector was 1.6% in the same time period; the finance and business services sector showed the largest growth rate (10.7%), partly because of strong bonus payments"

From:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/bulletins/averageweeklyearningsingreatbritain/may2022

Key point.
Public sector hasn't been struggling to recruit before.
Market forces are at work. The invisible hand will ensure a large pay settlement. If you have faith in it.

Absolutely, if public sector staff are prepared to quit to get better paid jobs elsewhere, and nobody else is queueing up to fill the roles, then their employers will have no alternative but to pay more to replace them.

If they're not prepared to though, that's not the invisible hand that's acting.

They are.
Which is why 2 or 3% won't stand.
And why your kids won't have a teacher. But a week by week contractor.
You may like that. But millions won't.

If that's the case, there's absolutely no reason to strike, is there?

Many people strike as the final attempt to get something fixed before they leave the industry.

And supply teachers are getting harder to find so don’t think the week by week contractors exist to fix the problem

If they aren't, deregulate wages and let the market sort it out.

There is no reason the state should be getting involved in wage levels. If the supply of teachers are short in a particular area, then wages should be able to go up, if there's an overabundance elsewhere then wages might stagnate. Why should the government be involved either way?

You’ve clearly never been a school governor then (and clearly not one who deals with finance).

Simple fact is that if wages go up schools need either more money or the number of teachers will drop because there really isn’t anything else that can be cut.

Heck a lot of schools will have less teachers come September to reflect higher fuel costs

Which is why schools should have the flexibility to set wages themselves and the state should not be involved in them whatsoever.

"National pay rates" are an anachronism that should never exist.

Academies can pay more - for some reason or other they don’t

BartholomewRoberts said:

eek said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

eek said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

eek said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

dixiedean said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

dixiedean said:

Foxy said:

Applicant said:

Foxy said:

Scott_xP said:

Monday’s TIMES: Teachers and doctors threaten to join strikes” #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/1538633085666971650/photo/1

Yep. Not accepting 2%. It is an insult.

2% more than I'm likely to get.

"Average total pay growth for the private sector was 8.2% in January to March 2022, and for the public sector was 1.6% in the same time period; the finance and business services sector showed the largest growth rate (10.7%), partly because of strong bonus payments"

From:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/bulletins/averageweeklyearningsingreatbritain/may2022

Key point.
Public sector hasn't been struggling to recruit before.
Market forces are at work. The invisible hand will ensure a large pay settlement. If you have faith in it.

Absolutely, if public sector staff are prepared to quit to get better paid jobs elsewhere, and nobody else is queueing up to fill the roles, then their employers will have no alternative but to pay more to replace them.

If they're not prepared to though, that's not the invisible hand that's acting.

They are.
Which is why 2 or 3% won't stand.
And why your kids won't have a teacher. But a week by week contractor.
You may like that. But millions won't.

If that's the case, there's absolutely no reason to strike, is there?

Many people strike as the final attempt to get something fixed before they leave the industry.

And supply teachers are getting harder to find so don’t think the week by week contractors exist to fix the problem

If they aren't, deregulate wages and let the market sort it out.

There is no reason the state should be getting involved in wage levels. If the supply of teachers are short in a particular area, then wages should be able to go up, if there's an overabundance elsewhere then wages might stagnate. Why should the government be involved either way?

You’ve clearly never been a school governor then (and clearly not one who deals with finance).

Simple fact is that if wages go up schools need either more money or the number of teachers will drop because there really isn’t anything else that can be cut.

Heck a lot of schools will have less teachers come September to reflect higher fuel costs

Which is why schools should have the flexibility to set wages themselves and the state should not be involved in them whatsoever.

"National pay rates" are an anachronism that should never exist.

Academies can pay more - for some reason or other they don’t

In which case, presumably they aren't struggling to fill their vacancies, going back to where we started the conversation.

dixiedean said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

eek said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

eek said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

dixiedean said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

dixiedean said:

Foxy said:

Applicant said:

Foxy said:

Scott_xP said:

Monday’s TIMES: Teachers and doctors threaten to join strikes” #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/1538633085666971650/photo/1

Yep. Not accepting 2%. It is an insult.

2% more than I'm likely to get.

"Average total pay growth for the private sector was 8.2% in January to March 2022, and for the public sector was 1.6% in the same time period; the finance and business services sector showed the largest growth rate (10.7%), partly because of strong bonus payments"

From:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/bulletins/averageweeklyearningsingreatbritain/may2022

Key point.
Public sector hasn't been struggling to recruit before.
Market forces are at work. The invisible hand will ensure a large pay settlement. If you have faith in it.

Absolutely, if public sector staff are prepared to quit to get better paid jobs elsewhere, and nobody else is queueing up to fill the roles, then their employers will have no alternative but to pay more to replace them.

If they're not prepared to though, that's not the invisible hand that's acting.

They are.
Which is why 2 or 3% won't stand.
And why your kids won't have a teacher. But a week by week contractor.
You may like that. But millions won't.

If that's the case, there's absolutely no reason to strike, is there?

Many people strike as the final attempt to get something fixed before they leave the industry.

And supply teachers are getting harder to find so don’t think the week by week contractors exist to fix the problem

If they aren't, deregulate wages and let the market sort it out.

There is no reason the state should be getting involved in wage levels. If the supply of teachers are short in a particular area, then wages should be able to go up, if there's an overabundance elsewhere then wages might stagnate. Why should the government be involved either way?

You’ve clearly never been a school governor then (and clearly not one who deals with finance).

Simple fact is that if wages go up schools need either more money or the number of teachers will drop because there really isn’t anything else that can be cut.

Heck a lot of schools will have less teachers come September to reflect higher fuel costs

Which is why schools should have the flexibility to set wages themselves and the state should not be involved in them whatsoever.

"National pay rates" are an anachronism that should never exist.

And who exactly funds this?

BartholomewRoberts said:

eek said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

eek said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

eek said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

dixiedean said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

dixiedean said:

Foxy said:

Applicant said:

Foxy said:

Scott_xP said:

Monday’s TIMES: Teachers and doctors threaten to join strikes” #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/1538633085666971650/photo/1

Yep. Not accepting 2%. It is an insult.

2% more than I'm likely to get.

"Average total pay growth for the private sector was 8.2% in January to March 2022, and for the public sector was 1.6% in the same time period; the finance and business services sector showed the largest growth rate (10.7%), partly because of strong bonus payments"

From:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/bulletins/averageweeklyearningsingreatbritain/may2022

Key point.
Public sector hasn't been struggling to recruit before.
Market forces are at work. The invisible hand will ensure a large pay settlement. If you have faith in it.

Absolutely, if public sector staff are prepared to quit to get better paid jobs elsewhere, and nobody else is queueing up to fill the roles, then their employers will have no alternative but to pay more to replace them.

If they're not prepared to though, that's not the invisible hand that's acting.

They are.
Which is why 2 or 3% won't stand.
And why your kids won't have a teacher. But a week by week contractor.
You may like that. But millions won't.

If that's the case, there's absolutely no reason to strike, is there?

Many people strike as the final attempt to get something fixed before they leave the industry.

And supply teachers are getting harder to find so don’t think the week by week contractors exist to fix the problem

If they aren't, deregulate wages and let the market sort it out.

There is no reason the state should be getting involved in wage levels. If the supply of teachers are short in a particular area, then wages should be able to go up, if there's an overabundance elsewhere then wages might stagnate. Why should the government be involved either way?

You’ve clearly never been a school governor then (and clearly not one who deals with finance).

Simple fact is that if wages go up schools need either more money or the number of teachers will drop because there really isn’t anything else that can be cut.

Heck a lot of schools will have less teachers come September to reflect higher fuel costs

Which is why schools should have the flexibility to set wages themselves and the state should not be involved in them whatsoever.

"National pay rates" are an anachronism that should never exist.

Academies can pay more - for some reason or other they don’t

In which case, presumably they aren't struggling to fill their vacancies, going back to where we started the conversation.

dixiedean said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

eek said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

eek said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

eek said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

dixiedean said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

dixiedean said:

Foxy said:

Applicant said:

Foxy said:

Scott_xP said:

Monday’s TIMES: Teachers and doctors threaten to join strikes” #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/1538633085666971650/photo/1

Yep. Not accepting 2%. It is an insult.

2% more than I'm likely to get.

"Average total pay growth for the private sector was 8.2% in January to March 2022, and for the public sector was 1.6% in the same time period; the finance and business services sector showed the largest growth rate (10.7%), partly because of strong bonus payments"

From:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/bulletins/averageweeklyearningsingreatbritain/may2022

Key point.
Public sector hasn't been struggling to recruit before.
Market forces are at work. The invisible hand will ensure a large pay settlement. If you have faith in it.

Absolutely, if public sector staff are prepared to quit to get better paid jobs elsewhere, and nobody else is queueing up to fill the roles, then their employers will have no alternative but to pay more to replace them.

If they're not prepared to though, that's not the invisible hand that's acting.

They are.
Which is why 2 or 3% won't stand.
And why your kids won't have a teacher. But a week by week contractor.
You may like that. But millions won't.

If that's the case, there's absolutely no reason to strike, is there?

Many people strike as the final attempt to get something fixed before they leave the industry.

And supply teachers are getting harder to find so don’t think the week by week contractors exist to fix the problem

If they aren't, deregulate wages and let the market sort it out.

There is no reason the state should be getting involved in wage levels. If the supply of teachers are short in a particular area, then wages should be able to go up, if there's an overabundance elsewhere then wages might stagnate. Why should the government be involved either way?

You’ve clearly never been a school governor then (and clearly not one who deals with finance).

Simple fact is that if wages go up schools need either more money or the number of teachers will drop because there really isn’t anything else that can be cut.

Heck a lot of schools will have less teachers come September to reflect higher fuel costs

Which is why schools should have the flexibility to set wages themselves and the state should not be involved in them whatsoever.

"National pay rates" are an anachronism that should never exist.

Academies can pay more - for some reason or other they don’t

In which case, presumably they aren't struggling to fill their vacancies, going back to where we started the conversation.

But they are. Big time.

kle4 said:

Leon said:

EPG said:

A bunch of reasons why they don't switch to English, as a manager of Euro English speakers:
The obvious national and emotional reasons. It's highly impractical to learn the Nordic languages anywhere outside the Nordic countries. Nor do many people learn Dutch. The language is tied to nationhood in a way not true in English speaking countries. Also true in France and other places under minimal threat from English.
As a corollary of the impracticality of overseas education, states like Denmark and Sweden like to use their native languages as a discretionary labour market barrier for skilled work. Want a good job in the civil service? You better speak Danish.
Your kids are going to speak Finnish in the school system anyway.
If you both work, your parents are going to teach your kids Finnish anyway.
Your kids are going to learn English from the internets anyway.

But a language can exist, officially and formally, it can even be seen as primary, and yet it dies, as English overwhelms

Irish Gaelic is a classic example

This is a good thing. The sooner everyone on earth speaks god’s own language, the Queen’s English, the sooner we will all get on. Get rid of these silly little dialects

After that, we just have to make sure everyone plays cricket

It would be interesting to know what measures, if any, different countries take to protect native linguas. If places are simply raised to be essentially bilingual then the native one won't die out as it is equally convenient at home, and time and effort can preserve places which could be overwhelmed. Even if estimates are way off in terms of actual proficiency or daily use, a lot of time and effort has gone into it encouraing Welsh after all.

dixiedean said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

dixiedean said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

dixiedean said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

dixiedean said:

Foxy said:

Applicant said:

Foxy said:

Scott_xP said:

Monday’s TIMES: Teachers and doctors threaten to join strikes” #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/1538633085666971650/photo/1

Yep. Not accepting 2%. It is an insult.

2% more than I'm likely to get.

"Average total pay growth for the private sector was 8.2% in January to March 2022, and for the public sector was 1.6% in the same time period; the finance and business services sector showed the largest growth rate (10.7%), partly because of strong bonus payments"

From:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/bulletins/averageweeklyearningsingreatbritain/may2022

Key point.
Public sector hasn't been struggling to recruit before.
Market forces are at work. The invisible hand will ensure a large pay settlement. If you have faith in it.

Absolutely, if public sector staff are prepared to quit to get better paid jobs elsewhere, and nobody else is queueing up to fill the roles, then their employers will have no alternative but to pay more to replace them.

If they're not prepared to though, that's not the invisible hand that's acting.

They are.
Which is why 2 or 3% won't stand.
And why your kids won't have a teacher. But a week by week contractor.
You may like that. But millions won't.

If that's the case, there's absolutely no reason to strike, is there?

Only if you think Primary School kids need a regular teacher.
In your world that is bizarre I realise.

In my world my kids have a regular teacher.

If they don't, the school should sort it out so that they do. Any schools incapable of ensuring their classes are taught by a regular teacher ought to be able to sort themselves out.

And if the finance isn't there?

BartholomewRoberts said:

dixiedean said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

eek said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

eek said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

dixiedean said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

dixiedean said:

Foxy said:

Applicant said:

Foxy said:

Scott_xP said:

Monday’s TIMES: Teachers and doctors threaten to join strikes” #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/1538633085666971650/photo/1

Yep. Not accepting 2%. It is an insult.

2% more than I'm likely to get.

"Average total pay growth for the private sector was 8.2% in January to March 2022, and for the public sector was 1.6% in the same time period; the finance and business services sector showed the largest growth rate (10.7%), partly because of strong bonus payments"

From:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/bulletins/averageweeklyearningsingreatbritain/may2022

Key point.
Public sector hasn't been struggling to recruit before.
Market forces are at work. The invisible hand will ensure a large pay settlement. If you have faith in it.

Absolutely, if public sector staff are prepared to quit to get better paid jobs elsewhere, and nobody else is queueing up to fill the roles, then their employers will have no alternative but to pay more to replace them.

If they're not prepared to though, that's not the invisible hand that's acting.

They are.
Which is why 2 or 3% won't stand.
And why your kids won't have a teacher. But a week by week contractor.
You may like that. But millions won't.

If that's the case, there's absolutely no reason to strike, is there?

Many people strike as the final attempt to get something fixed before they leave the industry.

And supply teachers are getting harder to find so don’t think the week by week contractors exist to fix the problem

If they aren't, deregulate wages and let the market sort it out.

There is no reason the state should be getting involved in wage levels. If the supply of teachers are short in a particular area, then wages should be able to go up, if there's an overabundance elsewhere then wages might stagnate. Why should the government be involved either way?

You’ve clearly never been a school governor then (and clearly not one who deals with finance).

Simple fact is that if wages go up schools need either more money or the number of teachers will drop because there really isn’t anything else that can be cut.

Heck a lot of schools will have less teachers come September to reflect higher fuel costs

Which is why schools should have the flexibility to set wages themselves and the state should not be involved in them whatsoever.

"National pay rates" are an anachronism that should never exist.

And who exactly funds this?

That's for the school to sort out from its budget.

I don't know about teaching in particular but in most industries supply staff are more expensive than permanent staff, not cheaper. So a school over-relying on supply staff ought to have the budget to pay a decent wage to reliable permanent staff members instead. Supply staff tend to be a very false economy.

BartholomewRoberts said:

eek said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

eek said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

eek said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

eek said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

dixiedean said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

dixiedean said:

Foxy said:

Applicant said:

Foxy said:

Scott_xP said:

Monday’s TIMES: Teachers and doctors threaten to join strikes” #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/1538633085666971650/photo/1

Yep. Not accepting 2%. It is an insult.

2% more than I'm likely to get.

"Average total pay growth for the private sector was 8.2% in January to March 2022, and for the public sector was 1.6% in the same time period; the finance and business services sector showed the largest growth rate (10.7%), partly because of strong bonus payments"

From:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/bulletins/averageweeklyearningsingreatbritain/may2022

Key point.
Public sector hasn't been struggling to recruit before.
Market forces are at work. The invisible hand will ensure a large pay settlement. If you have faith in it.

Absolutely, if public sector staff are prepared to quit to get better paid jobs elsewhere, and nobody else is queueing up to fill the roles, then their employers will have no alternative but to pay more to replace them.

If they're not prepared to though, that's not the invisible hand that's acting.

They are.
Which is why 2 or 3% won't stand.
And why your kids won't have a teacher. But a week by week contractor.
You may like that. But millions won't.

If that's the case, there's absolutely no reason to strike, is there?

Many people strike as the final attempt to get something fixed before they leave the industry.

And supply teachers are getting harder to find so don’t think the week by week contractors exist to fix the problem

If they aren't, deregulate wages and let the market sort it out.

There is no reason the state should be getting involved in wage levels. If the supply of teachers are short in a particular area, then wages should be able to go up, if there's an overabundance elsewhere then wages might stagnate. Why should the government be involved either way?

You’ve clearly never been a school governor then (and clearly not one who deals with finance).

Simple fact is that if wages go up schools need either more money or the number of teachers will drop because there really isn’t anything else that can be cut.

Heck a lot of schools will have less teachers come September to reflect higher fuel costs

Which is why schools should have the flexibility to set wages themselves and the state should not be involved in them whatsoever.

"National pay rates" are an anachronism that should never exist.

Academies can pay more - for some reason or other they don’t

In which case, presumably they aren't struggling to fill their vacancies, going back to where we started the conversation.

Academies can pay more but they can’t because the budget (set by the department of education) doesn’t allow them to do so.

Remember my previous point - a lot of schools are not replacing teachers because they need to safe money to pay the expected fuel bills.

Given that we are referring back to previous points - remember I used to be a school governor specializing in school finances…

If they deliberately aren't replacing teachers, then presumably they think they have enough. A school with fuel but no teachers is hardly a school now, is it?

Either way, that should be their choice - and if wage rises are going to cause problems, then presumably the school should be thinking carefully before agreeing any. You as a Governor ought to be able to get involved in wage discussions for your school, rather someone from Whitehall deciding what is appropriate for your school then applying that to every single school in the country uniformly as if there's no local factors involved.

Sunil_Prasannan said:

dixiedean said:

Jonathan said:

Alas, American English is the lingua Franca. You ‘realize’ that when you have your perfectly good English ‘corrected’ by a German.

It actually isn't. There are a number of competing Englishes. Indian English and Chinglish are two.

Indian English?

They refer to train carriages as "bogeys", whereas, as we all know, bogeys are the things carrying the wheels BENEATH the carriages!