I was intensely annoyed by Alastair Darling's failure in the second Independence Debate to remind Alex Salmond of the role played by the SNP in helping Thatcher and the Tories to gain power in 1979. I suspect there continues to be mileage in that message. 'The SNP helped the Wicked Witch to get into No 10.'
1. Brexit has not (yet) been the disaster some were excitedly predicting. Yes there are teething issues but, frankly, it has gone quite smoothly so far. We have a trade deal and our vaccine rollout is undeniably faster thanks to shaking off the EU shackles.
Why do you think our vaccine rollout would have been any different if we'd been in the EU and the European Medicines Agency had still been in London?
Because slow as they are, that's not the biggest problem with the EU's scheme.
The EU's scheme is voluntary. We wouldn't have been 'shackled' to it, and it might not even have existed in that form if we had been part of the decision making process.
Once you are round the negotiating table in Brussels, there is a powerful urge to be seen to be "communautaire", i.e. to sell out your country's interests for an illusory payback at the European level, while giving more and more power to the Eurocracy. So, in theory, we could have stayed outside the vaccine scheme if we hadn't left. In practice, we might not have done so. And we have probably saved thousands, or maybe tens of thousands, of lives as a result.
It's a bit premature to talk about saving lives when we still have the worst death toll in Europe.
Surely as a British patriot you must look at it the other way round: if the EU had been able to benefit from the presence of a country with a superior model for the delivery of healthcare, then the scheme would have been planned differently, to the benefit of hundreds of millions of Europeans.
The EU hasn't suddenly changed now that the UK has left. It is the same as it ever was.
So you don't think the loss of the UK was a significant blow? Typical anti-British attitude.
No, I'm saying that blaming the EU's slow vaccine rollout on Brexit is utterly ridiculous.
If, say, Germany left, and then the EU made a mess of something, I'm sure people would be saying the problem was the lack of German expertise.
What has this got to do with experience? It's all about bureaucracy and national self-interest with regards to vaccine contracts.
And the UK was traditionally a successful voice for a free market approach rather than national self-interest.
Either it was a lone voice in that regards, in which case it wouldn't have mattered, or there are other countries with a similar voice, in which case it clearly had no effect on the final outcome.
As we were frequently told by Brexiteers, the UK was the equivalent of 19 member states, so carried some weight. If Brexit hadn't happened, we would have been the host of the medicines regulator, as well as having a central government with unique direct experience of operational issues because of the structure of the NHS. It's not much of a stretch to think that we would have had significant influence on what the EU did.
What a stunning indictment of Brussels that they failed to recognise this and opted to go their own way..
No future for Scottish Labour if it remains Unionist, former minister says A FORMER Labour minister has said there is no future for Labour in Scotland if it continues to be a Unionist party.
In an exclusive interview with the Sunday National in the wake of leader Richard Leonard’s resignation, Les Huckfield said that unless the party changed its stance on independence it was “never going to get anywhere”.
That former junior 1970s minister left Labour over the Iraq War and is an SNP member.
Labour is not going to win back Nat voters from the SNP, its best hope is to remain a Unionist Party and win Tory and LD tactical votes to beat the SNP
No future for Scottish Labour if it remains Unionist, former minister says A FORMER Labour minister has said there is no future for Labour in Scotland if it continues to be a Unionist party.
In an exclusive interview with the Sunday National in the wake of leader Richard Leonard’s resignation, Les Huckfield said that unless the party changed its stance on independence it was “never going to get anywhere”.
That former junior 1970s minister left Labour over the Iraq War and is an SNP member.
Labour is not going to win back Nat voters from the SNP, its best hope is to remain a Unionist Party and win Tory and LD tactical votes to beat the SNP
I believe there are many voters who vote SNP for Holyrood who can be persuaded to support Labour for Westminster. The 2017 GE provided evidence of that.
What could change things quite radically is if in 2024 Starmer does well enough outside of Scotland to be invited to form a minority UK government and then puts forward a social-democratic programme that non-Tory voters in Scotland would generally have sympathy with, only for the SNP to bring down that government in the cause of secession. A second 2024 GE conducted in those circumstances would be interesting.
SNP supporters here, for all their bravado, prefer to gloss over what happened in a similar scenario in 1979.
Yawn, we all know the old lie that it was SNP, Labour killed themselves, jog on with your pathetic mistruths
No future for Scottish Labour if it remains Unionist, former minister says A FORMER Labour minister has said there is no future for Labour in Scotland if it continues to be a Unionist party.
In an exclusive interview with the Sunday National in the wake of leader Richard Leonard’s resignation, Les Huckfield said that unless the party changed its stance on independence it was “never going to get anywhere”.
That former junior 1970s minister left Labour over the Iraq War and is an SNP member.
Labour is not going to win back Nat voters from the SNP, its best hope is to remain a Unionist Party and win Tory and LD tactical votes to beat the SNP
I believe there are many voters who vote SNP for Holyrood who can be persuaded to support Labour for Westminster. The 2017 GE provided evidence of that.
At the 2017 GE in Scotland, the SLab vote was up 2.8%, the SCon vote was up 13.7%. If there were "many" SNP to Lab switchers, there must have been a lot of Lab to Con switchers at the same time.
1. Brexit has not (yet) been the disaster some were excitedly predicting. Yes there are teething issues but, frankly, it has gone quite smoothly so far. We have a trade deal and our vaccine rollout is undeniably faster thanks to shaking off the EU shackles.
Why do you think our vaccine rollout would have been any different if we'd been in the EU and the European Medicines Agency had still been in London?
Because slow as they are, that's not the biggest problem with the EU's scheme.
The EU's scheme is voluntary. We wouldn't have been 'shackled' to it, and it might not even have existed in that form if we had been part of the decision making process.
Once you are round the negotiating table in Brussels, there is a powerful urge to be seen to be "communautaire", i.e. to sell out your country's interests for an illusory payback at the European level, while giving more and more power to the Eurocracy. So, in theory, we could have stayed outside the vaccine scheme if we hadn't left. In practice, we might not have done so. And we have probably saved thousands, or maybe tens of thousands, of lives as a result.
Thank goodness that the UK has 'probably saved thousands, or maybe tens of thousands, of lives' otherwise the UK might have the highest number of deaths in Europe.
In terms of death rate we're some way off highest:
At some point in the next couple of years this pandemic will be declared over by the WHO (yes - honestly - it will) and it is at that point, or maybe shortly before, that we can discuss the success or otherwise of the approach of various countries. In the meantime no one is entitled to count their chickens. It’s a long way to run yet.
And yet it is consistently those looking to attack the UK Government who make the false claims about how the UK is the 'worst in Europe'. Why is your comments about counting chickens only ever seem to be in response to those defending the UK record?
I don’t think that’s true Richard. Okay, I was immediately responding to Carlotta but she was responding to Union Divvie with whom I don’t exactly have the friendliest relationship, as our exchanges will prove. In fact we can’t stand one another’s posts. So I stand by my comment. I would not like to be a sneering Anglophobic Irish commentator on the UK’s response this side of the New Year.
1. Brexit has not (yet) been the disaster some were excitedly predicting. Yes there are teething issues but, frankly, it has gone quite smoothly so far. We have a trade deal and our vaccine rollout is undeniably faster thanks to shaking off the EU shackles.
Why do you think our vaccine rollout would have been any different if we'd been in the EU and the European Medicines Agency had still been in London?
Because slow as they are, that's not the biggest problem with the EU's scheme.
The EU's scheme is voluntary. We wouldn't have been 'shackled' to it, and it might not even have existed in that form if we had been part of the decision making process.
Once you are round the negotiating table in Brussels, there is a powerful urge to be seen to be "communautaire", i.e. to sell out your country's interests for an illusory payback at the European level, while giving more and more power to the Eurocracy. So, in theory, we could have stayed outside the vaccine scheme if we hadn't left. In practice, we might not have done so. And we have probably saved thousands, or maybe tens of thousands, of lives as a result.
Thank goodness that the UK has 'probably saved thousands, or maybe tens of thousands, of lives' otherwise the UK might have the highest number of deaths in Europe.
In terms of death rate we're some way off highest:
At some point in the next couple of years this pandemic will be declared over by the WHO (yes - honestly - it will) and it is at that point, or maybe shortly before, that we can discuss the success or otherwise of the approach of various countries. In the meantime no one is entitled to count their chickens. It’s a long way to run yet.
And yet it is consistently those looking to attack the UK Government who make the false claims about how the UK is the 'worst in Europe'. Why is your comments about counting chickens only ever seem to be in response to those defending the UK record?
Whoever it was in response to the comment from DougSeal applies to both regardless. It's reasonable to point things out about they currently stand, so long as that position is a) accurate, b) is open to change should, in time, the initial view proved unduly optimistic or pessimistic.
I was intensely annoyed by Alastair Darling's failure in the second Independence Debate to remind Alex Salmond of the role played by the SNP in helping Thatcher and the Tories to gain power in 1979. I suspect there continues to be mileage in that message. 'The SNP helped the Wicked Witch to get into No 10.'
Given various SLabbers regularly try to trot that one out to no avail, I fear that your finger may not be exactly on the pulse. That Labour worked happily, nay enthusiastically, with the Tories in Bettertogether seems to have somewhat more impact..
1. Brexit has not (yet) been the disaster some were excitedly predicting. Yes there are teething issues but, frankly, it has gone quite smoothly so far. We have a trade deal and our vaccine rollout is undeniably faster thanks to shaking off the EU shackles.
Why do you think our vaccine rollout would have been any different if we'd been in the EU and the European Medicines Agency had still been in London?
Because slow as they are, that's not the biggest problem with the EU's scheme.
The EU's scheme is voluntary. We wouldn't have been 'shackled' to it, and it might not even have existed in that form if we had been part of the decision making process.
Once you are round the negotiating table in Brussels, there is a powerful urge to be seen to be "communautaire", i.e. to sell out your country's interests for an illusory payback at the European level, while giving more and more power to the Eurocracy. So, in theory, we could have stayed outside the vaccine scheme if we hadn't left. In practice, we might not have done so. And we have probably saved thousands, or maybe tens of thousands, of lives as a result.
Thank goodness that the UK has 'probably saved thousands, or maybe tens of thousands, of lives' otherwise the UK might have the highest number of deaths in Europe.
In terms of death rate we're some way off highest:
At some point in the next couple of years this pandemic will be declared over by the WHO (yes - honestly - it will) and it is at that point, or maybe shortly before, that we can discuss the success or otherwise of the approach of various countries. In the meantime no one is entitled to count their chickens. It’s a long way to run yet.
And yet it is consistently those looking to attack the UK Government who make the false claims about how the UK is the 'worst in Europe'. Why is your comments about counting chickens only ever seem to be in response to those defending the UK record?
I don’t think that’s true Richard. Okay, I was immediately responding to Carlotta but she was responding to Union Divvie with whom I don’t exactly have the friendliest relationship, as our exchanges will prove. In fact we can’t stand one another’s posts. So I stand by my comment. I would not like to be a sneering Anglophobic Irish commentator on the UK’s response this side of the New Year.
Chill out man, 'can’t stand' exaggerates your impact a fair bit.
I believe there are many voters who vote SNP for Holyrood who can be persuaded to support Labour for Westminster. The 2017 GE provided evidence of that.
One thing I have never seen -- though presumably it must exist -- is Labour's own explanation for the catastrophe that engulfed the Party in Scotland.
To go from holding 41 seats in 2010 (many with huge majorities and held continuously for many decades) to just 1 in 2015 does require more of an explanation than "we campaigned on the winning side with the wicked Tories in a referendum".
I would be moderately interested in whether Labour have inquired as to why the catastrophe happened & in the famous phrase of politicians -- what lessons were learned. 😉
How did they lose the hearts and minds of the working class voters in the Central Belt so suddenly and comprehensively?
I have my own hypothesis for this, based on examination of Labour's behaviour in its fiefdoms in Wales -- but I am interested in the Labour party's explanation.
It is very simple, a large proportion of Labour voters in 2010 were in favour of Independence.
In 2014 Labour repeatedly called Independence supporters Nazis.
What happened next followed logically from that.
Tbf YBarddCwsc was wondering what Labour's own explanation was.
There are quite a few out there, mainly one faction blaming it on another faction, or occasionally uniting to blame it all on the demonic EssEnnPee. None of them take any personal responsibility, hence SLab are still Donald Ducked and will continue to be whoever gets Buggins' turn for the leadership next.
Oh, the official Labour version is "The Scottish voters are ungrateful bastards who failed to give us our just reward for running the hugely successful better together campaign and the SNP are being mean"
I was intensely annoyed by Alastair Darling's failure in the second Independence Debate to remind Alex Salmond of the role played by the SNP in helping Thatcher and the Tories to gain power in 1979. I suspect there continues to be mileage in that message. 'The SNP helped the Wicked Witch to get into No 10.'
Given various SLabbers regularly try to trot that one out to no avail, I fear that your finger may not be exactly on the pulse. That Labour worked happily, nay enthusiastically, with the Tories in Bettertogether seems to have somewhat more impact..
A Trump whacko on R4 saying trump won a landslide, no doubt. election was stolen.
Was it a chap called Tonald Drump?
No a woman, I think from GA. Ordinary level whacko rather than a party person.
It would be interesting to find out why they think the election was stolen and how it was stolen.
I suspect it's because if you say something enough times some people believe it but there may be other factors in play that would be worth identifying so that they can be corrected earlier.
I realise this won't be a popular view but I have serious qualms about the current vaccination programme.
The one thing I have no qualms about whatsoever is the vaccine itself - we should all be vaccinated and it's worrying to see such poor intended take-up in some communities and I'm pleased this is being addressed by religious and other community leaders.
My problem remains with the notion vaccinating a lot of people once is the way forward.
I disagree.
We should be doing this properly. There have been documented instances of individuals getting the first Pfizer vaccination and then contracting Covid and dying. Pfizer made it abundantly clear the maximum immunity is achieved one week after the second vaccination or four week in total after the first vaccination.
We should be proceeding on that basis - ensuring those who are most at risk are properly vaccinated with two vaccinations twenty one days apart. As far as I can see all the current available vaccines rely on two vaccinations - that may not be the case in time but it is now. We use booster vaccinations regularly - MMR and the annual flu vaccination for example.
It's my view getting a smaller number properly protected is preferable to providing a limited degree of immunity for a larger number. The Pfizer vaccination achieves 52% protection 12 days after the first vaccination - 95% is achieved seven days after the second vaccination.
Oxford-AZ is a little better with Moderna better still.
I think there are political reasons why the Government has taken the action it has and I think they are wrong. I want us all to be vaccinated but properly and effectively - we don't, after all, really know how long immunity will last and it may be we will all need further vaccination later in the year.
The figures suggest lock down is having the desired impact in reducing case numbers - ensuring those at risk are properly vaccinated to reduce deaths and hospitalisations seems the obvious way forward in conjunction with the maintenance of restrictions until all those over 50 are properly vaccinated (with two vaccinations).
Disagreed. The four Chief Medical Officer representing all 4 home nations, the JCVI and the MHRA and a lot of other scientific evidence unanimously say this is the right thing to do. Their logic seems to be unimpeachable...
Not entirely. The bare numbers alone ignore the theoretically increased risk of vaccine resistant mutations as a result of the much longer gap between the first and second shots and the significant number of people for whom the first shot doesn’t provide great protection. I don’t know how large an increased risk that might be, given that current worrying mutations have arisen anyway in unvaccinated populations. The experts don’t seem to know either, so my opinion is worthless, but they do agree that it is non zero.
1. Brexit has not (yet) been the disaster some were excitedly predicting. Yes there are teething issues but, frankly, it has gone quite smoothly so far. We have a trade deal and our vaccine rollout is undeniably faster thanks to shaking off the EU shackles.
Why do you think our vaccine rollout would have been any different if we'd been in the EU and the European Medicines Agency had still been in London?
Because slow as they are, that's not the biggest problem with the EU's scheme.
The EU's scheme is voluntary. We wouldn't have been 'shackled' to it, and it might not even have existed in that form if we had been part of the decision making process.
Once you are round the negotiating table in Brussels, there is a powerful urge to be seen to be "communautaire", i.e. to sell out your country's interests for an illusory payback at the European level, while giving more and more power to the Eurocracy. So, in theory, we could have stayed outside the vaccine scheme if we hadn't left. In practice, we might not have done so. And we have probably saved thousands, or maybe tens of thousands, of lives as a result.
Thank goodness that the UK has 'probably saved thousands, or maybe tens of thousands, of lives' otherwise the UK might have the highest number of deaths in Europe.
In terms of death rate we're some way off highest:
At some point in the next couple of years this pandemic will be declared over by the WHO (yes - honestly - it will) and it is at that point, or maybe shortly before, that we can discuss the success or otherwise of the approach of various countries. In the meantime no one is entitled to count their chickens. It’s a long way to run yet.
And yet it is consistently those looking to attack the UK Government who make the false claims about how the UK is the 'worst in Europe'. Why is your comments about counting chickens only ever seem to be in response to those defending the UK record?
I don’t think that’s true Richard. Okay, I was immediately responding to Carlotta but she was responding to Union Divvie with whom I don’t exactly have the friendliest relationship, as our exchanges will prove. In fact we can’t stand one another’s posts. So I stand by my comment. I would not like to be a sneering Anglophobic Irish commentator on the UK’s response this side of the New Year.
Chill out man, 'can’t stand' exaggerates your impact a fair bit.
Being described as a “thin skinned twat” does suggest the opposite.
I was intensely annoyed by Alastair Darling's failure in the second Independence Debate to remind Alex Salmond of the role played by the SNP in helping Thatcher and the Tories to gain power in 1979. I suspect there continues to be mileage in that message. 'The SNP helped the Wicked Witch to get into No 10.'
Given various SLabbers regularly try to trot that one out to no avail, I fear that your finger may not be exactly on the pulse. That Labour worked happily, nay enthusiastically, with the Tories in Bettertogether seems to have somewhat more impact..
I think it rather strange people had - though they did seem to, I wouldn't dispute that - have had a problem with the unionist parties worthing together to try to retain the union. Even those who we disagree with almost everything on are capable of agreeing on some things for what is perceived to be a greater purpose. Not that it always seems to be harmonious, but the various different Indy parties in Catalonia often seem able to work together despite very different left/right politics. Some things should be more important than mere party politics.
However, I have always thought far stranger than that is the idea that the actions of the SNP in 1979 would have any bearing on how people would decide to cast their votes today. I know justin is a big fan of some old fashioned values, but I find it rather unlikely significant numbers of people would change their minds on being reminded of something that happened politically 40 years ago.
Pulling out the Thatcher gambit, left or right, unionist or nationalist, Scotland or UK, is the clear sign of people with their politics rooted in nostalgia for their youth, eager to replay the greatest hits.
1. Brexit has not (yet) been the disaster some were excitedly predicting. Yes there are teething issues but, frankly, it has gone quite smoothly so far. We have a trade deal and our vaccine rollout is undeniably faster thanks to shaking off the EU shackles.
Why do you think our vaccine rollout would have been any different if we'd been in the EU and the European Medicines Agency had still been in London?
Because slow as they are, that's not the biggest problem with the EU's scheme.
The EU's scheme is voluntary. We wouldn't have been 'shackled' to it, and it might not even have existed in that form if we had been part of the decision making process.
Once you are round the negotiating table in Brussels, there is a powerful urge to be seen to be "communautaire", i.e. to sell out your country's interests for an illusory payback at the European level, while giving more and more power to the Eurocracy. So, in theory, we could have stayed outside the vaccine scheme if we hadn't left. In practice, we might not have done so. And we have probably saved thousands, or maybe tens of thousands, of lives as a result.
Thank goodness that the UK has 'probably saved thousands, or maybe tens of thousands, of lives' otherwise the UK might have the highest number of deaths in Europe.
In terms of death rate we're some way off highest:
At some point in the next couple of years this pandemic will be declared over by the WHO (yes - honestly - it will) and it is at that point, or maybe shortly before, that we can discuss the success or otherwise of the approach of various countries. In the meantime no one is entitled to count their chickens. It’s a long way to run yet.
And yet it is consistently those looking to attack the UK Government who make the false claims about how the UK is the 'worst in Europe'. Why is your comments about counting chickens only ever seem to be in response to those defending the UK record?
I don’t think that’s true Richard. Okay, I was immediately responding to Carlotta but she was responding to Union Divvie with whom I don’t exactly have the friendliest relationship, as our exchanges will prove. In fact we can’t stand one another’s posts. So I stand by my comment. I would not like to be a sneering Anglophobic Irish commentator on the UK’s response this side of the New Year.
Chill out man, 'can’t stand' exaggerates your impact a fair bit.
Being described as a “thin skinned twat” does suggest the opposite.
Lol, I thing the mot was very much juste on that occasion.
I was intensely annoyed by Alastair Darling's failure in the second Independence Debate to remind Alex Salmond of the role played by the SNP in helping Thatcher and the Tories to gain power in 1979. I suspect there continues to be mileage in that message. 'The SNP helped the Wicked Witch to get into No 10.'
Given various SLabbers regularly try to trot that one out to no avail, I fear that your finger may not be exactly on the pulse. That Labour worked happily, nay enthusiastically, with the Tories in Bettertogether seems to have somewhat more impact..
I realise this won't be a popular view but I have serious qualms about the current vaccination programme.
The one thing I have no qualms about whatsoever is the vaccine itself - we should all be vaccinated and it's worrying to see such poor intended take-up in some communities and I'm pleased this is being addressed by religious and other community leaders.
My problem remains with the notion vaccinating a lot of people once is the way forward.
I disagree.
We should be doing this properly. There have been documented instances of individuals getting the first Pfizer vaccination and then contracting Covid and dying. Pfizer made it abundantly clear the maximum immunity is achieved one week after the second vaccination or four week in total after the first vaccination.
We should be proceeding on that basis - ensuring those who are most at risk are properly vaccinated with two vaccinations twenty one days apart. As far as I can see all the current available vaccines rely on two vaccinations - that may not be the case in time but it is now. We use booster vaccinations regularly - MMR and the annual flu vaccination for example.
It's my view getting a smaller number properly protected is preferable to providing a limited degree of immunity for a larger number. The Pfizer vaccination achieves 52% protection 12 days after the first vaccination - 95% is achieved seven days after the second vaccination.
Oxford-AZ is a little better with Moderna better still.
I think there are political reasons why the Government has taken the action it has and I think they are wrong. I want us all to be vaccinated but properly and effectively - we don't, after all, really know how long immunity will last and it may be we will all need further vaccination later in the year.
The figures suggest lock down is having the desired impact in reducing case numbers - ensuring those at risk are properly vaccinated to reduce deaths and hospitalisations seems the obvious way forward in conjunction with the maintenance of restrictions until all those over 50 are properly vaccinated (with two vaccinations).
Disagreed. The four Chief Medical Officer representing all 4 home nations, the JCVI and the MHRA and a lot of other scientific evidence unanimously say this is the right thing to do. Their logic seems to be unimpeachable...
Not entirely. The bare numbers alone ignore the theoretically increased risk of vaccine resistant mutations as a result of the much longer gap between the first and second shots and the significant number of people for whom the first shot doesn’t provide great protection. I don’t know how large an increased risk that might be, given that current worrying mutations have arisen anyway in unvaccinated populations. The experts don’t seem to know either, so my opinion is worthless, but they do agree that it is non zero.
The serious mutations seem to be traced back to use of convalescent plasma in immunocompromised patients. Now that we know it doesn't help save lives that treatment should be stopped and the WHO should recommend that it is discontinued globally to slow down and reduce mutation chances.
No future for Scottish Labour if it remains Unionist, former minister says A FORMER Labour minister has said there is no future for Labour in Scotland if it continues to be a Unionist party.
In an exclusive interview with the Sunday National in the wake of leader Richard Leonard’s resignation, Les Huckfield said that unless the party changed its stance on independence it was “never going to get anywhere”.
That former junior 1970s minister left Labour over the Iraq War and is an SNP member.
Labour is not going to win back Nat voters from the SNP, its best hope is to remain a Unionist Party and win Tory and LD tactical votes to beat the SNP
No future for Scottish Labour if it remains Unionist, former minister says A FORMER Labour minister has said there is no future for Labour in Scotland if it continues to be a Unionist party.
In an exclusive interview with the Sunday National in the wake of leader Richard Leonard’s resignation, Les Huckfield said that unless the party changed its stance on independence it was “never going to get anywhere”.
That former junior 1970s minister left Labour over the Iraq War and is an SNP member.
Labour is not going to win back Nat voters from the SNP, its best hope is to remain a Unionist Party and win Tory and LD tactical votes to beat the SNP
I believe there are many voters who vote SNP for Holyrood who can be persuaded to support Labour for Westminster. The 2017 GE provided evidence of that.
I'm sorry but you're spouting more bollocks than usual, here's the facts.
No future for Scottish Labour if it remains Unionist, former minister says A FORMER Labour minister has said there is no future for Labour in Scotland if it continues to be a Unionist party.
In an exclusive interview with the Sunday National in the wake of leader Richard Leonard’s resignation, Les Huckfield said that unless the party changed its stance on independence it was “never going to get anywhere”.
That former junior 1970s minister left Labour over the Iraq War and is an SNP member.
Labour is not going to win back Nat voters from the SNP, its best hope is to remain a Unionist Party and win Tory and LD tactical votes to beat the SNP
No future for Scottish Labour if it remains Unionist, former minister says A FORMER Labour minister has said there is no future for Labour in Scotland if it continues to be a Unionist party.
In an exclusive interview with the Sunday National in the wake of leader Richard Leonard’s resignation, Les Huckfield said that unless the party changed its stance on independence it was “never going to get anywhere”.
That former junior 1970s minister left Labour over the Iraq War and is an SNP member.
Labour is not going to win back Nat voters from the SNP, its best hope is to remain a Unionist Party and win Tory and LD tactical votes to beat the SNP
I believe there are many voters who vote SNP for Holyrood who can be persuaded to support Labour for Westminster. The 2017 GE provided evidence of that.
I'm sorry but you're spouting more bollocks than usual, here's the facts.
No future for Scottish Labour if it remains Unionist, former minister says A FORMER Labour minister has said there is no future for Labour in Scotland if it continues to be a Unionist party.
In an exclusive interview with the Sunday National in the wake of leader Richard Leonard’s resignation, Les Huckfield said that unless the party changed its stance on independence it was “never going to get anywhere”.
That former junior 1970s minister left Labour over the Iraq War and is an SNP member.
Labour is not going to win back Nat voters from the SNP, its best hope is to remain a Unionist Party and win Tory and LD tactical votes to beat the SNP
No future for Scottish Labour if it remains Unionist, former minister says A FORMER Labour minister has said there is no future for Labour in Scotland if it continues to be a Unionist party.
In an exclusive interview with the Sunday National in the wake of leader Richard Leonard’s resignation, Les Huckfield said that unless the party changed its stance on independence it was “never going to get anywhere”.
That former junior 1970s minister left Labour over the Iraq War and is an SNP member.
Labour is not going to win back Nat voters from the SNP, its best hope is to remain a Unionist Party and win Tory and LD tactical votes to beat the SNP
I believe there are many voters who vote SNP for Holyrood who can be persuaded to support Labour for Westminster. The 2017 GE provided evidence of that.
What could change things quite radically is if in 2024 Starmer does well enough outside of Scotland to be invited to form a minority UK government and then puts forward a social-democratic programme that non-Tory voters in Scotland would generally have sympathy with, only for the SNP to bring down that government in the cause of secession. A second 2024 GE conducted in those circumstances would be interesting.
SNP supporters here, for all their bravado, prefer to gloss over what happened in a similar scenario in 1979.
Yawn, we all know the old lie that it was SNP, Labour killed themselves, jog on with your pathetic mistruths
Actually, it was Labour's refusal to kill one of their MPs by dragging him in to vote that caused the loss.
1. Brexit has not (yet) been the disaster some were excitedly predicting. Yes there are teething issues but, frankly, it has gone quite smoothly so far. We have a trade deal and our vaccine rollout is undeniably faster thanks to shaking off the EU shackles.
Why do you think our vaccine rollout would have been any different if we'd been in the EU and the European Medicines Agency had still been in London?
Because slow as they are, that's not the biggest problem with the EU's scheme.
The EU's scheme is voluntary. We wouldn't have been 'shackled' to it, and it might not even have existed in that form if we had been part of the decision making process.
Once you are round the negotiating table in Brussels, there is a powerful urge to be seen to be "communautaire", i.e. to sell out your country's interests for an illusory payback at the European level, while giving more and more power to the Eurocracy. So, in theory, we could have stayed outside the vaccine scheme if we hadn't left. In practice, we might not have done so. And we have probably saved thousands, or maybe tens of thousands, of lives as a result.
Thank goodness that the UK has 'probably saved thousands, or maybe tens of thousands, of lives' otherwise the UK might have the highest number of deaths in Europe.
In terms of death rate we're some way off highest:
No future for Scottish Labour if it remains Unionist, former minister says A FORMER Labour minister has said there is no future for Labour in Scotland if it continues to be a Unionist party.
In an exclusive interview with the Sunday National in the wake of leader Richard Leonard’s resignation, Les Huckfield said that unless the party changed its stance on independence it was “never going to get anywhere”.
That former junior 1970s minister left Labour over the Iraq War and is an SNP member.
Labour is not going to win back Nat voters from the SNP, its best hope is to remain a Unionist Party and win Tory and LD tactical votes to beat the SNP
I believe there are many voters who vote SNP for Holyrood who can be persuaded to support Labour for Westminster. The 2017 GE provided evidence of that.
At the 2017 GE in Scotland, the SLab vote was up 2.8%, the SCon vote was up 13.7%. If there were "many" SNP to Lab switchers, there must have been a lot of Lab to Con switchers at the same time.
No future for Scottish Labour if it remains Unionist, former minister says A FORMER Labour minister has said there is no future for Labour in Scotland if it continues to be a Unionist party.
In an exclusive interview with the Sunday National in the wake of leader Richard Leonard’s resignation, Les Huckfield said that unless the party changed its stance on independence it was “never going to get anywhere”.
That former junior 1970s minister left Labour over the Iraq War and is an SNP member.
Labour is not going to win back Nat voters from the SNP, its best hope is to remain a Unionist Party and win Tory and LD tactical votes to beat the SNP
I believe there are many voters who vote SNP for Holyrood who can be persuaded to support Labour for Westminster. The 2017 GE provided evidence of that.
At the 2017 GE in Scotland, the SLab vote was up 2.8%, the SCon vote was up 13.7%. If there were "many" SNP to Lab switchers, there must have been a lot of Lab to Con switchers at the same time.
At the 2017 GE the Labour surge came late in Scotland and had not fully appeared in polls there. As a result quite a few 2015 Labour voters are likely to have misdirected themselves in the mistakenbelief that Labour was not in contention in their own constituencies. That was also encouraged by the clear evidence of Ruth Davidson's Tory surge. Had that not happened . Labour could well have ended up with 12 seats or so - most of the Glasgow results were really close.
1. Brexit has not (yet) been the disaster some were excitedly predicting. Yes there are teething issues but, frankly, it has gone quite smoothly so far. We have a trade deal and our vaccine rollout is undeniably faster thanks to shaking off the EU shackles.
Why do you think our vaccine rollout would have been any different if we'd been in the EU and the European Medicines Agency had still been in London?
Because slow as they are, that's not the biggest problem with the EU's scheme.
The EU's scheme is voluntary. We wouldn't have been 'shackled' to it, and it might not even have existed in that form if we had been part of the decision making process.
Once you are round the negotiating table in Brussels, there is a powerful urge to be seen to be "communautaire", i.e. to sell out your country's interests for an illusory payback at the European level, while giving more and more power to the Eurocracy. So, in theory, we could have stayed outside the vaccine scheme if we hadn't left. In practice, we might not have done so. And we have probably saved thousands, or maybe tens of thousands, of lives as a result.
Thank goodness that the UK has 'probably saved thousands, or maybe tens of thousands, of lives' otherwise the UK might have the highest number of deaths in Europe.
In terms of death rate we're some way off highest:
cheers for posting the data. most populous countries have highest numbers is a white hot take.
Bottom line seems to be that at the moment Western Europe in particular is varying degrees of bad. Where exactly those nations end up in order toward some conclusion of this will be more of academic interest.
No future for Scottish Labour if it remains Unionist, former minister says A FORMER Labour minister has said there is no future for Labour in Scotland if it continues to be a Unionist party.
In an exclusive interview with the Sunday National in the wake of leader Richard Leonard’s resignation, Les Huckfield said that unless the party changed its stance on independence it was “never going to get anywhere”.
That former junior 1970s minister left Labour over the Iraq War and is an SNP member.
Labour is not going to win back Nat voters from the SNP, its best hope is to remain a Unionist Party and win Tory and LD tactical votes to beat the SNP
No future for Scottish Labour if it remains Unionist, former minister says A FORMER Labour minister has said there is no future for Labour in Scotland if it continues to be a Unionist party.
In an exclusive interview with the Sunday National in the wake of leader Richard Leonard’s resignation, Les Huckfield said that unless the party changed its stance on independence it was “never going to get anywhere”.
That former junior 1970s minister left Labour over the Iraq War and is an SNP member.
Labour is not going to win back Nat voters from the SNP, its best hope is to remain a Unionist Party and win Tory and LD tactical votes to beat the SNP
I believe there are many voters who vote SNP for Holyrood who can be persuaded to support Labour for Westminster. The 2017 GE provided evidence of that.
I'm sorry but you're spouting more bollocks than usual, here's the facts.
No future for Scottish Labour if it remains Unionist, former minister says A FORMER Labour minister has said there is no future for Labour in Scotland if it continues to be a Unionist party.
In an exclusive interview with the Sunday National in the wake of leader Richard Leonard’s resignation, Les Huckfield said that unless the party changed its stance on independence it was “never going to get anywhere”.
That former junior 1970s minister left Labour over the Iraq War and is an SNP member.
Labour is not going to win back Nat voters from the SNP, its best hope is to remain a Unionist Party and win Tory and LD tactical votes to beat the SNP
No future for Scottish Labour if it remains Unionist, former minister says A FORMER Labour minister has said there is no future for Labour in Scotland if it continues to be a Unionist party.
In an exclusive interview with the Sunday National in the wake of leader Richard Leonard’s resignation, Les Huckfield said that unless the party changed its stance on independence it was “never going to get anywhere”.
That former junior 1970s minister left Labour over the Iraq War and is an SNP member.
Labour is not going to win back Nat voters from the SNP, its best hope is to remain a Unionist Party and win Tory and LD tactical votes to beat the SNP
I believe there are many voters who vote SNP for Holyrood who can be persuaded to support Labour for Westminster. The 2017 GE provided evidence of that.
I'm sorry but you're spouting more bollocks than usual, here's the facts.
No future for Scottish Labour if it remains Unionist, former minister says A FORMER Labour minister has said there is no future for Labour in Scotland if it continues to be a Unionist party.
In an exclusive interview with the Sunday National in the wake of leader Richard Leonard’s resignation, Les Huckfield said that unless the party changed its stance on independence it was “never going to get anywhere”.
That former junior 1970s minister left Labour over the Iraq War and is an SNP member.
Labour is not going to win back Nat voters from the SNP, its best hope is to remain a Unionist Party and win Tory and LD tactical votes to beat the SNP
No future for Scottish Labour if it remains Unionist, former minister says A FORMER Labour minister has said there is no future for Labour in Scotland if it continues to be a Unionist party.
In an exclusive interview with the Sunday National in the wake of leader Richard Leonard’s resignation, Les Huckfield said that unless the party changed its stance on independence it was “never going to get anywhere”.
That former junior 1970s minister left Labour over the Iraq War and is an SNP member.
Labour is not going to win back Nat voters from the SNP, its best hope is to remain a Unionist Party and win Tory and LD tactical votes to beat the SNP
I believe there are many voters who vote SNP for Holyrood who can be persuaded to support Labour for Westminster. The 2017 GE provided evidence of that.
I'm sorry but you're spouting more bollocks than usual, here's the facts.
No future for Scottish Labour if it remains Unionist, former minister says A FORMER Labour minister has said there is no future for Labour in Scotland if it continues to be a Unionist party.
In an exclusive interview with the Sunday National in the wake of leader Richard Leonard’s resignation, Les Huckfield said that unless the party changed its stance on independence it was “never going to get anywhere”.
That former junior 1970s minister left Labour over the Iraq War and is an SNP member.
Labour is not going to win back Nat voters from the SNP, its best hope is to remain a Unionist Party and win Tory and LD tactical votes to beat the SNP
No future for Scottish Labour if it remains Unionist, former minister says A FORMER Labour minister has said there is no future for Labour in Scotland if it continues to be a Unionist party.
In an exclusive interview with the Sunday National in the wake of leader Richard Leonard’s resignation, Les Huckfield said that unless the party changed its stance on independence it was “never going to get anywhere”.
That former junior 1970s minister left Labour over the Iraq War and is an SNP member.
Labour is not going to win back Nat voters from the SNP, its best hope is to remain a Unionist Party and win Tory and LD tactical votes to beat the SNP
I believe there are many voters who vote SNP for Holyrood who can be persuaded to support Labour for Westminster. The 2017 GE provided evidence of that.
I'm sorry but you're spouting more bollocks than usual, here's the facts.
In 2017 there was a sense of shock - including on this site - when Labour went from 1 to 7 seats. I had been lampooned for suggesting they might manage 4.
1. Brexit has not (yet) been the disaster some were excitedly predicting. Yes there are teething issues but, frankly, it has gone quite smoothly so far. We have a trade deal and our vaccine rollout is undeniably faster thanks to shaking off the EU shackles.
Why do you think our vaccine rollout would have been any different if we'd been in the EU and the European Medicines Agency had still been in London?
Because slow as they are, that's not the biggest problem with the EU's scheme.
The EU's scheme is voluntary. We wouldn't have been 'shackled' to it, and it might not even have existed in that form if we had been part of the decision making process.
Once you are round the negotiating table in Brussels, there is a powerful urge to be seen to be "communautaire", i.e. to sell out your country's interests for an illusory payback at the European level, while giving more and more power to the Eurocracy. So, in theory, we could have stayed outside the vaccine scheme if we hadn't left. In practice, we might not have done so. And we have probably saved thousands, or maybe tens of thousands, of lives as a result.
Thank goodness that the UK has 'probably saved thousands, or maybe tens of thousands, of lives' otherwise the UK might have the highest number of deaths in Europe.
In terms of death rate we're some way off highest:
At some point in the next couple of years this pandemic will be declared over by the WHO (yes - honestly - it will) and it is at that point, or maybe shortly before, that we can discuss the success or otherwise of the approach of various countries. In the meantime no one is entitled to count their chickens. It’s a long way to run yet.
Trouble reading Rob, they came from Carlotta, that is enough for me to doubt them.
1. Brexit has not (yet) been the disaster some were excitedly predicting. Yes there are teething issues but, frankly, it has gone quite smoothly so far. We have a trade deal and our vaccine rollout is undeniably faster thanks to shaking off the EU shackles.
Why do you think our vaccine rollout would have been any different if we'd been in the EU and the European Medicines Agency had still been in London?
Because slow as they are, that's not the biggest problem with the EU's scheme.
The EU's scheme is voluntary. We wouldn't have been 'shackled' to it, and it might not even have existed in that form if we had been part of the decision making process.
Once you are round the negotiating table in Brussels, there is a powerful urge to be seen to be "communautaire", i.e. to sell out your country's interests for an illusory payback at the European level, while giving more and more power to the Eurocracy. So, in theory, we could have stayed outside the vaccine scheme if we hadn't left. In practice, we might not have done so. And we have probably saved thousands, or maybe tens of thousands, of lives as a result.
It's a bit premature to talk about saving lives when we still have the worst death toll in Europe.
Surely as a British patriot you must look at it the other way round: if the EU had been able to benefit from the presence of a country with a superior model for the delivery of healthcare, then the scheme would have been planned differently, to the benefit of hundreds of millions of Europeans.
The EU hasn't suddenly changed now that the UK has left. It is the same as it ever was.
So you don't think the loss of the UK was a significant blow? Typical anti-British attitude.
No, I'm saying that blaming the EU's slow vaccine rollout on Brexit is utterly ridiculous.
If, say, Germany left, and then the EU made a mess of something, I'm sure people would be saying the problem was the lack of German expertise.
What has this got to do with experience? It's all about bureaucracy and national self-interest with regards to vaccine contracts.
And the UK was traditionally a successful voice for a free market approach rather than national self-interest.
It's actually the opposite, the UK took a statist approach of subsidies for manufacturing while the EU took the free market "let's get a big discount" one. They failed to factor in the opportunity cost of a 6-12 month delay to full national immunisation so they could save a few billion euros from the sticker price.
You need to admit to yourself that they fucked it up. The EU got it wrong. Deal with it.
When HMG make a mistake I tend to criticise the individuals who made the defective decisions, or I might point the blame at the malfunctioning institutions and suggest reforms to improve them.
Uniquely when the EU is criticised it is its very existence that is blamed. This is unhelpful.
There's a reason for this.
When HMG get criticised it is primarily led by the opposition and their supporters who want to bring down the government at the next election, take over and replace it.
The EU is institutional. There is no opposition in the EU to take over or lead criticism.
If the EU was a properly ran democracy with proper accountability then the individuals might get the criticism. It isn't, so the EU deserves it itself.
No future for Scottish Labour if it remains Unionist, former minister says A FORMER Labour minister has said there is no future for Labour in Scotland if it continues to be a Unionist party.
In an exclusive interview with the Sunday National in the wake of leader Richard Leonard’s resignation, Les Huckfield said that unless the party changed its stance on independence it was “never going to get anywhere”.
That former junior 1970s minister left Labour over the Iraq War and is an SNP member.
Labour is not going to win back Nat voters from the SNP, its best hope is to remain a Unionist Party and win Tory and LD tactical votes to beat the SNP
No future for Scottish Labour if it remains Unionist, former minister says A FORMER Labour minister has said there is no future for Labour in Scotland if it continues to be a Unionist party.
In an exclusive interview with the Sunday National in the wake of leader Richard Leonard’s resignation, Les Huckfield said that unless the party changed its stance on independence it was “never going to get anywhere”.
That former junior 1970s minister left Labour over the Iraq War and is an SNP member.
Labour is not going to win back Nat voters from the SNP, its best hope is to remain a Unionist Party and win Tory and LD tactical votes to beat the SNP
I believe there are many voters who vote SNP for Holyrood who can be persuaded to support Labour for Westminster. The 2017 GE provided evidence of that.
I'm sorry but you're spouting more bollocks than usual, here's the facts.
In 2017 there was a sense of shock - including on this site - when Labour went from 1 to 7 seats. I had been lampooned for suggesting they might manage 4.
Fair point, they did do a lot better than most of us thought they were going to. I mean, the Tories did better than I thought either, but I at least thought it was possible and made money on constituency bets for them. But it wouldn't do to overplay how large the votes increase was.
No future for Scottish Labour if it remains Unionist, former minister says A FORMER Labour minister has said there is no future for Labour in Scotland if it continues to be a Unionist party.
In an exclusive interview with the Sunday National in the wake of leader Richard Leonard’s resignation, Les Huckfield said that unless the party changed its stance on independence it was “never going to get anywhere”.
That former junior 1970s minister left Labour over the Iraq War and is an SNP member.
Labour is not going to win back Nat voters from the SNP, its best hope is to remain a Unionist Party and win Tory and LD tactical votes to beat the SNP
No future for Scottish Labour if it remains Unionist, former minister says A FORMER Labour minister has said there is no future for Labour in Scotland if it continues to be a Unionist party.
In an exclusive interview with the Sunday National in the wake of leader Richard Leonard’s resignation, Les Huckfield said that unless the party changed its stance on independence it was “never going to get anywhere”.
That former junior 1970s minister left Labour over the Iraq War and is an SNP member.
Labour is not going to win back Nat voters from the SNP, its best hope is to remain a Unionist Party and win Tory and LD tactical votes to beat the SNP
I believe there are many voters who vote SNP for Holyrood who can be persuaded to support Labour for Westminster. The 2017 GE provided evidence of that.
I'm sorry but you're spouting more bollocks than usual, here's the facts.
In 2017 there was a sense of shock - including on this site - when Labour went from 1 to 7 seats. I had been lampooned for suggesting they might manage 4.
Irrelevant to the point you were making.
Anyhoo get back to me when you tipped the Tories to win over 9.5 Scottish seats at GE2017 at 20/1.
I was intensely annoyed by Alastair Darling's failure in the second Independence Debate to remind Alex Salmond of the role played by the SNP in helping Thatcher and the Tories to gain power in 1979. I suspect there continues to be mileage in that message. 'The SNP helped the Wicked Witch to get into No 10.'
As the beginning of their long term strategy that took them from a handful of seats on the fringe to their current dominance, that decision was insightful.
If there was a single decision that did the most to turn Scotland against England, it was Mrs T’s using them as guinea pigs for the poll tax.
1. Brexit has not (yet) been the disaster some were excitedly predicting. Yes there are teething issues but, frankly, it has gone quite smoothly so far. We have a trade deal and our vaccine rollout is undeniably faster thanks to shaking off the EU shackles.
Why do you think our vaccine rollout would have been any different if we'd been in the EU and the European Medicines Agency had still been in London?
Because slow as they are, that's not the biggest problem with the EU's scheme.
The EU's scheme is voluntary. We wouldn't have been 'shackled' to it, and it might not even have existed in that form if we had been part of the decision making process.
Once you are round the negotiating table in Brussels, there is a powerful urge to be seen to be "communautaire", i.e. to sell out your country's interests for an illusory payback at the European level, while giving more and more power to the Eurocracy. So, in theory, we could have stayed outside the vaccine scheme if we hadn't left. In practice, we might not have done so. And we have probably saved thousands, or maybe tens of thousands, of lives as a result.
Thank goodness that the UK has 'probably saved thousands, or maybe tens of thousands, of lives' otherwise the UK might have the highest number of deaths in Europe.
If only Scotland could have opted out of the UK & into the EU scheme and waited several months more for the vaccine .....
Ha Ha Ha, Little Englander emigrant comes up with sad crap, nip down to the English bar and get your fry up and read the Sun, may make you less cranky
A Trump whacko on R4 saying trump won a landslide, no doubt. election was stolen.
Was it a chap called Tonald Drump?
No a woman, I think from GA. Ordinary level whacko rather than a party person.
It is so striking to hear discussions in the US about extremism and ‘radicalisation’ and domestic terrorism in ways that have previously only been applied to Islam.
I was intensely annoyed by Alastair Darling's failure in the second Independence Debate to remind Alex Salmond of the role played by the SNP in helping Thatcher and the Tories to gain power in 1979. I suspect there continues to be mileage in that message. 'The SNP helped the Wicked Witch to get into No 10.'
Another Labour deadbeat , living in the past on made up stories. Labour are crap , they only get losers list seats , people of Scotland know how crap they are and vote accordingly. Without the free seats for losers they could not fill a taxi.
No future for Scottish Labour if it remains Unionist, former minister says A FORMER Labour minister has said there is no future for Labour in Scotland if it continues to be a Unionist party.
In an exclusive interview with the Sunday National in the wake of leader Richard Leonard’s resignation, Les Huckfield said that unless the party changed its stance on independence it was “never going to get anywhere”.
That former junior 1970s minister left Labour over the Iraq War and is an SNP member.
Labour is not going to win back Nat voters from the SNP, its best hope is to remain a Unionist Party and win Tory and LD tactical votes to beat the SNP
No future for Scottish Labour if it remains Unionist, former minister says A FORMER Labour minister has said there is no future for Labour in Scotland if it continues to be a Unionist party.
In an exclusive interview with the Sunday National in the wake of leader Richard Leonard’s resignation, Les Huckfield said that unless the party changed its stance on independence it was “never going to get anywhere”.
That former junior 1970s minister left Labour over the Iraq War and is an SNP member.
Labour is not going to win back Nat voters from the SNP, its best hope is to remain a Unionist Party and win Tory and LD tactical votes to beat the SNP
I believe there are many voters who vote SNP for Holyrood who can be persuaded to support Labour for Westminster. The 2017 GE provided evidence of that.
What could change things quite radically is if in 2024 Starmer does well enough outside of Scotland to be invited to form a minority UK government and then puts forward a social-democratic programme that non-Tory voters in Scotland would generally have sympathy with, only for the SNP to bring down that government in the cause of secession. A second 2024 GE conducted in those circumstances would be interesting.
SNP supporters here, for all their bravado, prefer to gloss over what happened in a similar scenario in 1979.
Yawn, we all know the old lie that it was SNP, Labour killed themselves, jog on with your pathetic mistruths
Actually, it was Labour's refusal to kill one of their MPs by dragging him in to vote that caused the loss.
Worth remembering it didn't have to be that way and it was a matter of honour between the two whips that eventually decided it.
"As the vote loomed, Labour's deputy Chief Whip, Walter Harrison approached Weatherill to enforce the pairing convention that if a sick MP from the Government could not vote, an MP from the Opposition would abstain to compensate. Weatherill said that pairing had never been intended for votes on Matters of Confidence that meant the life or death of the Government and it would be impossible to find a Conservative MP who would agree to abstain.
However, after a moment's reflection, he offered that he himself would abstain, because he felt it would be dishonourable to break his word with Harrison. Harrison was so impressed by Weatherill's offer – which would have effectively ended his political career – that he released Weatherill from his obligation and so the Government fell by one vote on the agreement of gentlemen"
I was intensely annoyed by Alastair Darling's failure in the second Independence Debate to remind Alex Salmond of the role played by the SNP in helping Thatcher and the Tories to gain power in 1979. I suspect there continues to be mileage in that message. 'The SNP helped the Wicked Witch to get into No 10.'
As the beginning of their long term strategy that took them from a handful of seats on the fringe to their current dominance, that decision was insightful.
If there was a single decision that did the most to turn Scotland against England, it was Mrs T’s using them as guinea pigs for the poll tax.
'Thatcher and BJ, the bookends of Scottish Independence' has a certain ring to it.
No future for Scottish Labour if it remains Unionist, former minister says A FORMER Labour minister has said there is no future for Labour in Scotland if it continues to be a Unionist party.
In an exclusive interview with the Sunday National in the wake of leader Richard Leonard’s resignation, Les Huckfield said that unless the party changed its stance on independence it was “never going to get anywhere”.
That former junior 1970s minister left Labour over the Iraq War and is an SNP member.
Labour is not going to win back Nat voters from the SNP, its best hope is to remain a Unionist Party and win Tory and LD tactical votes to beat the SNP
I believe there are many voters who vote SNP for Holyrood who can be persuaded to support Labour for Westminster. The 2017 GE provided evidence of that.
At the 2017 GE in Scotland, the SLab vote was up 2.8%, the SCon vote was up 13.7%. If there were "many" SNP to Lab switchers, there must have been a lot of Lab to Con switchers at the same time.
Alan you are talking to a dumbass labour supporter, he cannot understand the numbers you show. Just keeps head up his butt thinking Labour have any chance or relevance.
1. Brexit has not (yet) been the disaster some were excitedly predicting. Yes there are teething issues but, frankly, it has gone quite smoothly so far. We have a trade deal and our vaccine rollout is undeniably faster thanks to shaking off the EU shackles.
Why do you think our vaccine rollout would have been any different if we'd been in the EU and the European Medicines Agency had still been in London?
Because slow as they are, that's not the biggest problem with the EU's scheme.
The EU's scheme is voluntary. We wouldn't have been 'shackled' to it, and it might not even have existed in that form if we had been part of the decision making process.
Once you are round the negotiating table in Brussels, there is a powerful urge to be seen to be "communautaire", i.e. to sell out your country's interests for an illusory payback at the European level, while giving more and more power to the Eurocracy. So, in theory, we could have stayed outside the vaccine scheme if we hadn't left. In practice, we might not have done so. And we have probably saved thousands, or maybe tens of thousands, of lives as a result.
Thank goodness that the UK has 'probably saved thousands, or maybe tens of thousands, of lives' otherwise the UK might have the highest number of deaths in Europe.
In terms of death rate we're some way off highest:
At some point in the next couple of years this pandemic will be declared over by the WHO (yes - honestly - it will) and it is at that point, or maybe shortly before, that we can discuss the success or otherwise of the approach of various countries. In the meantime no one is entitled to count their chickens. It’s a long way to run yet.
Trouble reading Rob, they came from Carlotta, that is enough for me to doubt them.
Here you go Malc - a link to the data uncorrupted by malign English unionist influence. The website is based out of Oxford but the data is from Johns Hopkins in the US
No future for Scottish Labour if it remains Unionist, former minister says A FORMER Labour minister has said there is no future for Labour in Scotland if it continues to be a Unionist party.
In an exclusive interview with the Sunday National in the wake of leader Richard Leonard’s resignation, Les Huckfield said that unless the party changed its stance on independence it was “never going to get anywhere”.
That former junior 1970s minister left Labour over the Iraq War and is an SNP member.
Labour is not going to win back Nat voters from the SNP, its best hope is to remain a Unionist Party and win Tory and LD tactical votes to beat the SNP
No future for Scottish Labour if it remains Unionist, former minister says A FORMER Labour minister has said there is no future for Labour in Scotland if it continues to be a Unionist party.
In an exclusive interview with the Sunday National in the wake of leader Richard Leonard’s resignation, Les Huckfield said that unless the party changed its stance on independence it was “never going to get anywhere”.
That former junior 1970s minister left Labour over the Iraq War and is an SNP member.
Labour is not going to win back Nat voters from the SNP, its best hope is to remain a Unionist Party and win Tory and LD tactical votes to beat the SNP
I believe there are many voters who vote SNP for Holyrood who can be persuaded to support Labour for Westminster. The 2017 GE provided evidence of that.
I'm sorry but you're spouting more bollocks than usual, here's the facts.
In 2017 there was a sense of shock - including on this site - when Labour went from 1 to 7 seats. I had been lampooned for suggesting they might manage 4.
Irrelevant to the point you were making.
Anyhoo get back to me when you tipped the Tories to win over 9.5 Scottish seats at GE2017 at 20/1.
*Legendary modesty klaxon*
I certainly expected to see the Tories on 10 - 15 seats in 2017. You appear to be ignoring the 'churn' factor in Scotland ihat year. Labour did gain votes from the SNP - but lost quite a few to the Tories. Had the latter not happened, Labour probably would have managed 12 seats - and possibly exceeded the Tory 13 seat total.
No future for Scottish Labour if it remains Unionist, former minister says A FORMER Labour minister has said there is no future for Labour in Scotland if it continues to be a Unionist party.
In an exclusive interview with the Sunday National in the wake of leader Richard Leonard’s resignation, Les Huckfield said that unless the party changed its stance on independence it was “never going to get anywhere”.
That former junior 1970s minister left Labour over the Iraq War and is an SNP member.
Labour is not going to win back Nat voters from the SNP, its best hope is to remain a Unionist Party and win Tory and LD tactical votes to beat the SNP
No future for Scottish Labour if it remains Unionist, former minister says A FORMER Labour minister has said there is no future for Labour in Scotland if it continues to be a Unionist party.
In an exclusive interview with the Sunday National in the wake of leader Richard Leonard’s resignation, Les Huckfield said that unless the party changed its stance on independence it was “never going to get anywhere”.
That former junior 1970s minister left Labour over the Iraq War and is an SNP member.
Labour is not going to win back Nat voters from the SNP, its best hope is to remain a Unionist Party and win Tory and LD tactical votes to beat the SNP
I believe there are many voters who vote SNP for Holyrood who can be persuaded to support Labour for Westminster. The 2017 GE provided evidence of that.
What could change things quite radically is if in 2024 Starmer does well enough outside of Scotland to be invited to form a minority UK government and then puts forward a social-democratic programme that non-Tory voters in Scotland would generally have sympathy with, only for the SNP to bring down that government in the cause of secession. A second 2024 GE conducted in those circumstances would be interesting.
SNP supporters here, for all their bravado, prefer to gloss over what happened in a similar scenario in 1979.
Yawn, we all know the old lie that it was SNP, Labour killed themselves, jog on with your pathetic mistruths
Actually, it was Labour's refusal to kill one of their MPs by dragging him in to vote that caused the loss.
Worth remembering it didn't have to be that way and it was a matter of honour between the two whips that eventually decided it.
"As the vote loomed, Labour's deputy Chief Whip, Walter Harrison approached Weatherill to enforce the pairing convention that if a sick MP from the Government could not vote, an MP from the Opposition would abstain to compensate. Weatherill said that pairing had never been intended for votes on Matters of Confidence that meant the life or death of the Government and it would be impossible to find a Conservative MP who would agree to abstain.
However, after a moment's reflection, he offered that he himself would abstain, because he felt it would be dishonourable to break his word with Harrison. Harrison was so impressed by Weatherill's offer – which would have effectively ended his political career – that he released Weatherill from his obligation and so the Government fell by one vote on the agreement of gentlemen"
It's a great story, although would have been darkly funny (though dishonourable) if Weatherill later stated he had been bluffing.
1. Brexit has not (yet) been the disaster some were excitedly predicting. Yes there are teething issues but, frankly, it has gone quite smoothly so far. We have a trade deal and our vaccine rollout is undeniably faster thanks to shaking off the EU shackles.
Why do you think our vaccine rollout would have been any different if we'd been in the EU and the European Medicines Agency had still been in London?
Because slow as they are, that's not the biggest problem with the EU's scheme.
The EU's scheme is voluntary. We wouldn't have been 'shackled' to it, and it might not even have existed in that form if we had been part of the decision making process.
Once you are round the negotiating table in Brussels, there is a powerful urge to be seen to be "communautaire", i.e. to sell out your country's interests for an illusory payback at the European level, while giving more and more power to the Eurocracy. So, in theory, we could have stayed outside the vaccine scheme if we hadn't left. In practice, we might not have done so. And we have probably saved thousands, or maybe tens of thousands, of lives as a result.
Thank goodness that the UK has 'probably saved thousands, or maybe tens of thousands, of lives' otherwise the UK might have the highest number of deaths in Europe.
In terms of death rate we're some way off highest:
At some point in the next couple of years this pandemic will be declared over by the WHO (yes - honestly - it will) and it is at that point, or maybe shortly before, that we can discuss the success or otherwise of the approach of various countries. In the meantime no one is entitled to count their chickens. It’s a long way to run yet.
And yet it is consistently those looking to attack the UK Government who make the false claims about how the UK is the 'worst in Europe'. Why is your comments about counting chickens only ever seem to be in response to those defending the UK record?
I don’t think that’s true Richard. Okay, I was immediately responding to Carlotta but she was responding to Union Divvie with whom I don’t exactly have the friendliest relationship, as our exchanges will prove. In fact we can’t stand one another’s posts. So I stand by my comment. I would not like to be a sneering Anglophobic Irish commentator on the UK’s response this side of the New Year.
Chill out man, 'can’t stand' exaggerates your impact a fair bit.
1. Brexit has not (yet) been the disaster some were excitedly predicting. Yes there are teething issues but, frankly, it has gone quite smoothly so far. We have a trade deal and our vaccine rollout is undeniably faster thanks to shaking off the EU shackles.
Why do you think our vaccine rollout would have been any different if we'd been in the EU and the European Medicines Agency had still been in London?
Because slow as they are, that's not the biggest problem with the EU's scheme.
The EU's scheme is voluntary. We wouldn't have been 'shackled' to it, and it might not even have existed in that form if we had been part of the decision making process.
Once you are round the negotiating table in Brussels, there is a powerful urge to be seen to be "communautaire", i.e. to sell out your country's interests for an illusory payback at the European level, while giving more and more power to the Eurocracy. So, in theory, we could have stayed outside the vaccine scheme if we hadn't left. In practice, we might not have done so. And we have probably saved thousands, or maybe tens of thousands, of lives as a result.
Thank goodness that the UK has 'probably saved thousands, or maybe tens of thousands, of lives' otherwise the UK might have the highest number of deaths in Europe.
In terms of death rate we're some way off highest:
At some point in the next couple of years this pandemic will be declared over by the WHO (yes - honestly - it will) and it is at that point, or maybe shortly before, that we can discuss the success or otherwise of the approach of various countries. In the meantime no one is entitled to count their chickens. It’s a long way to run yet.
And yet it is consistently those looking to attack the UK Government who make the false claims about how the UK is the 'worst in Europe'. Why is your comments about counting chickens only ever seem to be in response to those defending the UK record?
I don’t think that’s true Richard. Okay, I was immediately responding to Carlotta but she was responding to Union Divvie with whom I don’t exactly have the friendliest relationship, as our exchanges will prove. In fact we can’t stand one another’s posts. So I stand by my comment. I would not like to be a sneering Anglophobic Irish commentator on the UK’s response this side of the New Year.
Chill out man, 'can’t stand' exaggerates your impact a fair bit.
Being described as a “thin skinned twat” does suggest the opposite.
Been speaking to one of my father's ex colleagues who is dealing with the roll out of the vaccine, the one number we need to keep our eye on.
The number of daily vaccinations needs to be around 3x the number of daily infections, if we can maintain that, then we really are going gangbusters, currently we're at vaccinations being 4x the number of daily infections.
1. Brexit has not (yet) been the disaster some were excitedly predicting. Yes there are teething issues but, frankly, it has gone quite smoothly so far. We have a trade deal and our vaccine rollout is undeniably faster thanks to shaking off the EU shackles.
Why do you think our vaccine rollout would have been any different if we'd been in the EU and the European Medicines Agency had still been in London?
Because slow as they are, that's not the biggest problem with the EU's scheme.
The EU's scheme is voluntary. We wouldn't have been 'shackled' to it, and it might not even have existed in that form if we had been part of the decision making process.
Once you are round the negotiating table in Brussels, there is a powerful urge to be seen to be "communautaire", i.e. to sell out your country's interests for an illusory payback at the European level, while giving more and more power to the Eurocracy. So, in theory, we could have stayed outside the vaccine scheme if we hadn't left. In practice, we might not have done so. And we have probably saved thousands, or maybe tens of thousands, of lives as a result.
Thank goodness that the UK has 'probably saved thousands, or maybe tens of thousands, of lives' otherwise the UK might have the highest number of deaths in Europe.
In terms of death rate we're some way off highest:
At some point in the next couple of years this pandemic will be declared over by the WHO (yes - honestly - it will) and it is at that point, or maybe shortly before, that we can discuss the success or otherwise of the approach of various countries. In the meantime no one is entitled to count their chickens. It’s a long way to run yet.
And yet it is consistently those looking to attack the UK Government who make the false claims about how the UK is the 'worst in Europe'. Why is your comments about counting chickens only ever seem to be in response to those defending the UK record?
Whoever it was in response to the comment from DougSeal applies to both regardless. It's reasonable to point things out about they currently stand, so long as that position is a) accurate, b) is open to change should, in time, the initial view proved unduly optimistic or pessimistic.
Oh I agree. Kind of my point really if badly phrased.
1. Brexit has not (yet) been the disaster some were excitedly predicting. Yes there are teething issues but, frankly, it has gone quite smoothly so far. We have a trade deal and our vaccine rollout is undeniably faster thanks to shaking off the EU shackles.
Why do you think our vaccine rollout would have been any different if we'd been in the EU and the European Medicines Agency had still been in London?
Because slow as they are, that's not the biggest problem with the EU's scheme.
The EU's scheme is voluntary. We wouldn't have been 'shackled' to it, and it might not even have existed in that form if we had been part of the decision making process.
Once you are round the negotiating table in Brussels, there is a powerful urge to be seen to be "communautaire", i.e. to sell out your country's interests for an illusory payback at the European level, while giving more and more power to the Eurocracy. So, in theory, we could have stayed outside the vaccine scheme if we hadn't left. In practice, we might not have done so. And we have probably saved thousands, or maybe tens of thousands, of lives as a result.
Thank goodness that the UK has 'probably saved thousands, or maybe tens of thousands, of lives' otherwise the UK might have the highest number of deaths in Europe.
In terms of death rate we're some way off highest:
At some point in the next couple of years this pandemic will be declared over by the WHO (yes - honestly - it will) and it is at that point, or maybe shortly before, that we can discuss the success or otherwise of the approach of various countries. In the meantime no one is entitled to count their chickens. It’s a long way to run yet.
And yet it is consistently those looking to attack the UK Government who make the false claims about how the UK is the 'worst in Europe'. Why is your comments about counting chickens only ever seem to be in response to those defending the UK record?
I don’t think that’s true Richard. Okay, I was immediately responding to Carlotta but she was responding to Union Divvie with whom I don’t exactly have the friendliest relationship, as our exchanges will prove. In fact we can’t stand one another’s posts. So I stand by my comment. I would not like to be a sneering Anglophobic Irish commentator on the UK’s response this side of the New Year.
Chill out man, 'can’t stand' exaggerates your impact a fair bit.
No future for Scottish Labour if it remains Unionist, former minister says A FORMER Labour minister has said there is no future for Labour in Scotland if it continues to be a Unionist party.
In an exclusive interview with the Sunday National in the wake of leader Richard Leonard’s resignation, Les Huckfield said that unless the party changed its stance on independence it was “never going to get anywhere”.
That former junior 1970s minister left Labour over the Iraq War and is an SNP member.
Labour is not going to win back Nat voters from the SNP, its best hope is to remain a Unionist Party and win Tory and LD tactical votes to beat the SNP
I believe there are many voters who vote SNP for Holyrood who can be persuaded to support Labour for Westminster. The 2017 GE provided evidence of that.
At the 2017 GE in Scotland, the SLab vote was up 2.8%, the SCon vote was up 13.7%. If there were "many" SNP to Lab switchers, there must have been a lot of Lab to Con switchers at the same time.
Indeed that happened on a significant scale - though such 2015 Labour voters misdirected themselves. Had they stayed with Labour , the SNP would have losses would have been bigger!
1. Brexit has not (yet) been the disaster some were excitedly predicting. Yes there are teething issues but, frankly, it has gone quite smoothly so far. We have a trade deal and our vaccine rollout is undeniably faster thanks to shaking off the EU shackles.
Why do you think our vaccine rollout would have been any different if we'd been in the EU and the European Medicines Agency had still been in London?
Because slow as they are, that's not the biggest problem with the EU's scheme.
The EU's scheme is voluntary. We wouldn't have been 'shackled' to it, and it might not even have existed in that form if we had been part of the decision making process.
Once you are round the negotiating table in Brussels, there is a powerful urge to be seen to be "communautaire", i.e. to sell out your country's interests for an illusory payback at the European level, while giving more and more power to the Eurocracy. So, in theory, we could have stayed outside the vaccine scheme if we hadn't left. In practice, we might not have done so. And we have probably saved thousands, or maybe tens of thousands, of lives as a result.
Thank goodness that the UK has 'probably saved thousands, or maybe tens of thousands, of lives' otherwise the UK might have the highest number of deaths in Europe.
In terms of death rate we're some way off highest:
At some point in the next couple of years this pandemic will be declared over by the WHO (yes - honestly - it will) and it is at that point, or maybe shortly before, that we can discuss the success or otherwise of the approach of various countries. In the meantime no one is entitled to count their chickens. It’s a long way to run yet.
And yet it is consistently those looking to attack the UK Government who make the false claims about how the UK is the 'worst in Europe'. Why is your comments about counting chickens only ever seem to be in response to those defending the UK record?
I don’t think that’s true Richard. Okay, I was immediately responding to Carlotta but she was responding to Union Divvie with whom I don’t exactly have the friendliest relationship, as our exchanges will prove. In fact we can’t stand one another’s posts. So I stand by my comment. I would not like to be a sneering Anglophobic Irish commentator on the UK’s response this side of the New Year.
Chill out man, 'can’t stand' exaggerates your impact a fair bit.
Being described as a “thin skinned twat” does suggest the opposite.
If the truth hurts
Indeed. That reaction to my post did suggest I had struck a nerve.
1. Brexit has not (yet) been the disaster some were excitedly predicting. Yes there are teething issues but, frankly, it has gone quite smoothly so far. We have a trade deal and our vaccine rollout is undeniably faster thanks to shaking off the EU shackles.
Why do you think our vaccine rollout would have been any different if we'd been in the EU and the European Medicines Agency had still been in London?
Because slow as they are, that's not the biggest problem with the EU's scheme.
The EU's scheme is voluntary. We wouldn't have been 'shackled' to it, and it might not even have existed in that form if we had been part of the decision making process.
Once you are round the negotiating table in Brussels, there is a powerful urge to be seen to be "communautaire", i.e. to sell out your country's interests for an illusory payback at the European level, while giving more and more power to the Eurocracy. So, in theory, we could have stayed outside the vaccine scheme if we hadn't left. In practice, we might not have done so. And we have probably saved thousands, or maybe tens of thousands, of lives as a result.
Thank goodness that the UK has 'probably saved thousands, or maybe tens of thousands, of lives' otherwise the UK might have the highest number of deaths in Europe.
In terms of death rate we're some way off highest:
At some point in the next couple of years this pandemic will be declared over by the WHO (yes - honestly - it will) and it is at that point, or maybe shortly before, that we can discuss the success or otherwise of the approach of various countries. In the meantime no one is entitled to count their chickens. It’s a long way to run yet.
And yet it is consistently those looking to attack the UK Government who make the false claims about how the UK is the 'worst in Europe'. Why is your comments about counting chickens only ever seem to be in response to those defending the UK record?
I don’t think that’s true Richard. Okay, I was immediately responding to Carlotta but she was responding to Union Divvie with whom I don’t exactly have the friendliest relationship, as our exchanges will prove. In fact we can’t stand one another’s posts. So I stand by my comment. I would not like to be a sneering Anglophobic Irish commentator on the UK’s response this side of the New Year.
Chill out man, 'can’t stand' exaggerates your impact a fair bit.
He is rather full of himself for a Nomark
At least I can spell.
After your performance last night, we know you cannot read.
Been speaking to one of my father's ex colleagues who is dealing with the roll out of the vaccine, the one number we need to keep our eye on.
The number of daily vaccinations needs to be around 3x the number of daily infections, if we can maintain that, then we really are going gangbusters, currently we're at vaccinations being 4x the number of daily infections.
I would expect the multiplier to go up not down.
Surely as R comes down new infections will come down while vaccination numbers are going to go up.
I would hope before long we will be at 5x then 10x the number of daily infections. EG 50k infections and 500k vaccinations.
No future for Scottish Labour if it remains Unionist, former minister says A FORMER Labour minister has said there is no future for Labour in Scotland if it continues to be a Unionist party.
In an exclusive interview with the Sunday National in the wake of leader Richard Leonard’s resignation, Les Huckfield said that unless the party changed its stance on independence it was “never going to get anywhere”.
That former junior 1970s minister left Labour over the Iraq War and is an SNP member.
Labour is not going to win back Nat voters from the SNP, its best hope is to remain a Unionist Party and win Tory and LD tactical votes to beat the SNP
I believe there are many voters who vote SNP for Holyrood who can be persuaded to support Labour for Westminster. The 2017 GE provided evidence of that.
At the 2017 GE in Scotland, the SLab vote was up 2.8%, the SCon vote was up 13.7%. If there were "many" SNP to Lab switchers, there must have been a lot of Lab to Con switchers at the same time.
No future for Scottish Labour if it remains Unionist, former minister says A FORMER Labour minister has said there is no future for Labour in Scotland if it continues to be a Unionist party.
In an exclusive interview with the Sunday National in the wake of leader Richard Leonard’s resignation, Les Huckfield said that unless the party changed its stance on independence it was “never going to get anywhere”.
That former junior 1970s minister left Labour over the Iraq War and is an SNP member.
Labour is not going to win back Nat voters from the SNP, its best hope is to remain a Unionist Party and win Tory and LD tactical votes to beat the SNP
I believe there are many voters who vote SNP for Holyrood who can be persuaded to support Labour for Westminster. The 2017 GE provided evidence of that.
At the 2017 GE in Scotland, the SLab vote was up 2.8%, the SCon vote was up 13.7%. If there were "many" SNP to Lab switchers, there must have been a lot of Lab to Con switchers at the same time.
At the 2017 GE the Labour surge came late in Scotland and had not fully appeared in polls there. As a result quite a few 2015 Labour voters are likely to have misdirected themselves in the mistakenbelief that Labour was not in contention in their own constituencies. That was also encouraged by the clear evidence of Ruth Davidson's Tory surge. Had that not happened . Labour could well have ended up with 12 seats or so - most of the Glasgow results were really close.
If my granny had wheels she could have been a wheelbarrow. Stop making yourself look even more stupid than you are.
No future for Scottish Labour if it remains Unionist, former minister says A FORMER Labour minister has said there is no future for Labour in Scotland if it continues to be a Unionist party.
In an exclusive interview with the Sunday National in the wake of leader Richard Leonard’s resignation, Les Huckfield said that unless the party changed its stance on independence it was “never going to get anywhere”.
That former junior 1970s minister left Labour over the Iraq War and is an SNP member.
Labour is not going to win back Nat voters from the SNP, its best hope is to remain a Unionist Party and win Tory and LD tactical votes to beat the SNP
I believe there are many voters who vote SNP for Holyrood who can be persuaded to support Labour for Westminster. The 2017 GE provided evidence of that.
At the 2017 GE in Scotland, the SLab vote was up 2.8%, the SCon vote was up 13.7%. If there were "many" SNP to Lab switchers, there must have been a lot of Lab to Con switchers at the same time.
Alan you are talking to a dumbass labour supporter, he cannot understand the numbers you show. Just keeps head up his butt thinking Labour have any chance or relevance.
There speaks the guy who assured us in 2017 that there was no chance of the SNP failing to win at least 50 seats!
That would be sensible, but hard to see how it can be revenue neutral with every LA in England in roughly the financial position of RBS under Fred the Shred.
No future for Scottish Labour if it remains Unionist, former minister says A FORMER Labour minister has said there is no future for Labour in Scotland if it continues to be a Unionist party.
In an exclusive interview with the Sunday National in the wake of leader Richard Leonard’s resignation, Les Huckfield said that unless the party changed its stance on independence it was “never going to get anywhere”.
That former junior 1970s minister left Labour over the Iraq War and is an SNP member.
Labour is not going to win back Nat voters from the SNP, its best hope is to remain a Unionist Party and win Tory and LD tactical votes to beat the SNP
I believe there are many voters who vote SNP for Holyrood who can be persuaded to support Labour for Westminster. The 2017 GE provided evidence of that.
At the 2017 GE in Scotland, the SLab vote was up 2.8%, the SCon vote was up 13.7%. If there were "many" SNP to Lab switchers, there must have been a lot of Lab to Con switchers at the same time.
No future for Scottish Labour if it remains Unionist, former minister says A FORMER Labour minister has said there is no future for Labour in Scotland if it continues to be a Unionist party.
In an exclusive interview with the Sunday National in the wake of leader Richard Leonard’s resignation, Les Huckfield said that unless the party changed its stance on independence it was “never going to get anywhere”.
That former junior 1970s minister left Labour over the Iraq War and is an SNP member.
Labour is not going to win back Nat voters from the SNP, its best hope is to remain a Unionist Party and win Tory and LD tactical votes to beat the SNP
I believe there are many voters who vote SNP for Holyrood who can be persuaded to support Labour for Westminster. The 2017 GE provided evidence of that.
At the 2017 GE in Scotland, the SLab vote was up 2.8%, the SCon vote was up 13.7%. If there were "many" SNP to Lab switchers, there must have been a lot of Lab to Con switchers at the same time.
At the 2017 GE the Labour surge came late in Scotland and had not fully appeared in polls there. As a result quite a few 2015 Labour voters are likely to have misdirected themselves in the mistakenbelief that Labour was not in contention in their own constituencies. That was also encouraged by the clear evidence of Ruth Davidson's Tory surge. Had that not happened . Labour could well have ended up with 12 seats or so - most of the Glasgow results were really close.
If my granny had wheels she could have been a wheelbarrow. Stop making yourself look even more stupid than you are.
I suggest you consult the mirror - and your own 2017 forecasts.
1. Brexit has not (yet) been the disaster some were excitedly predicting. Yes there are teething issues but, frankly, it has gone quite smoothly so far. We have a trade deal and our vaccine rollout is undeniably faster thanks to shaking off the EU shackles.
Why do you think our vaccine rollout would have been any different if we'd been in the EU and the European Medicines Agency had still been in London?
Because slow as they are, that's not the biggest problem with the EU's scheme.
The EU's scheme is voluntary. We wouldn't have been 'shackled' to it, and it might not even have existed in that form if we had been part of the decision making process.
Once you are round the negotiating table in Brussels, there is a powerful urge to be seen to be "communautaire", i.e. to sell out your country's interests for an illusory payback at the European level, while giving more and more power to the Eurocracy. So, in theory, we could have stayed outside the vaccine scheme if we hadn't left. In practice, we might not have done so. And we have probably saved thousands, or maybe tens of thousands, of lives as a result.
Thank goodness that the UK has 'probably saved thousands, or maybe tens of thousands, of lives' otherwise the UK might have the highest number of deaths in Europe.
In terms of death rate we're some way off highest:
At some point in the next couple of years this pandemic will be declared over by the WHO (yes - honestly - it will) and it is at that point, or maybe shortly before, that we can discuss the success or otherwise of the approach of various countries. In the meantime no one is entitled to count their chickens. It’s a long way to run yet.
And yet it is consistently those looking to attack the UK Government who make the false claims about how the UK is the 'worst in Europe'. Why is your comments about counting chickens only ever seem to be in response to those defending the UK record?
I don’t think that’s true Richard. Okay, I was immediately responding to Carlotta but she was responding to Union Divvie with whom I don’t exactly have the friendliest relationship, as our exchanges will prove. In fact we can’t stand one another’s posts. So I stand by my comment. I would not like to be a sneering Anglophobic Irish commentator on the UK’s response this side of the New Year.
Chill out man, 'can’t stand' exaggerates your impact a fair bit.
Being described as a “thin skinned twat” does suggest the opposite.
If the truth hurts
Indeed. That reaction to my post did suggest I had struck a nerve.
If you want to really upset TUD, remind him the Tories helped Salmond into power in 2007.
That causes him to suddenly become like a less imaginative version of Malcolm.
No future for Scottish Labour if it remains Unionist, former minister says A FORMER Labour minister has said there is no future for Labour in Scotland if it continues to be a Unionist party.
In an exclusive interview with the Sunday National in the wake of leader Richard Leonard’s resignation, Les Huckfield said that unless the party changed its stance on independence it was “never going to get anywhere”.
That former junior 1970s minister left Labour over the Iraq War and is an SNP member.
Labour is not going to win back Nat voters from the SNP, its best hope is to remain a Unionist Party and win Tory and LD tactical votes to beat the SNP
I believe there are many voters who vote SNP for Holyrood who can be persuaded to support Labour for Westminster. The 2017 GE provided evidence of that.
At the 2017 GE in Scotland, the SLab vote was up 2.8%, the SCon vote was up 13.7%. If there were "many" SNP to Lab switchers, there must have been a lot of Lab to Con switchers at the same time.
No future for Scottish Labour if it remains Unionist, former minister says A FORMER Labour minister has said there is no future for Labour in Scotland if it continues to be a Unionist party.
In an exclusive interview with the Sunday National in the wake of leader Richard Leonard’s resignation, Les Huckfield said that unless the party changed its stance on independence it was “never going to get anywhere”.
That former junior 1970s minister left Labour over the Iraq War and is an SNP member.
Labour is not going to win back Nat voters from the SNP, its best hope is to remain a Unionist Party and win Tory and LD tactical votes to beat the SNP
I believe there are many voters who vote SNP for Holyrood who can be persuaded to support Labour for Westminster. The 2017 GE provided evidence of that.
At the 2017 GE in Scotland, the SLab vote was up 2.8%, the SCon vote was up 13.7%. If there were "many" SNP to Lab switchers, there must have been a lot of Lab to Con switchers at the same time.
At the 2017 GE the Labour surge came late in Scotland and had not fully appeared in polls there. As a result quite a few 2015 Labour voters are likely to have misdirected themselves in the mistakenbelief that Labour was not in contention in their own constituencies. That was also encouraged by the clear evidence of Ruth Davidson's Tory surge. Had that not happened . Labour could well have ended up with 12 seats or so - most of the Glasgow results were really close.
If my granny had wheels she could have been a wheelbarrow. Stop making yourself look even more stupid than you are.
I suggest you consult the mirror - and your own 2017 forecasts.
Remind who is the Government in Scotland again, just so I am sure.
Been speaking to one of my father's ex colleagues who is dealing with the roll out of the vaccine, the one number we need to keep our eye on.
The number of daily vaccinations needs to be around 3x the number of daily infections, if we can maintain that, then we really are going gangbusters, currently we're at vaccinations being 4x the number of daily infections.
Daily reported infections or the modelled number based on surveying that is normally significantly higher?
No future for Scottish Labour if it remains Unionist, former minister says A FORMER Labour minister has said there is no future for Labour in Scotland if it continues to be a Unionist party.
In an exclusive interview with the Sunday National in the wake of leader Richard Leonard’s resignation, Les Huckfield said that unless the party changed its stance on independence it was “never going to get anywhere”.
That former junior 1970s minister left Labour over the Iraq War and is an SNP member.
Labour is not going to win back Nat voters from the SNP, its best hope is to remain a Unionist Party and win Tory and LD tactical votes to beat the SNP
I believe there are many voters who vote SNP for Holyrood who can be persuaded to support Labour for Westminster. The 2017 GE provided evidence of that.
At the 2017 GE in Scotland, the SLab vote was up 2.8%, the SCon vote was up 13.7%. If there were "many" SNP to Lab switchers, there must have been a lot of Lab to Con switchers at the same time.
No future for Scottish Labour if it remains Unionist, former minister says A FORMER Labour minister has said there is no future for Labour in Scotland if it continues to be a Unionist party.
In an exclusive interview with the Sunday National in the wake of leader Richard Leonard’s resignation, Les Huckfield said that unless the party changed its stance on independence it was “never going to get anywhere”.
That former junior 1970s minister left Labour over the Iraq War and is an SNP member.
Labour is not going to win back Nat voters from the SNP, its best hope is to remain a Unionist Party and win Tory and LD tactical votes to beat the SNP
I believe there are many voters who vote SNP for Holyrood who can be persuaded to support Labour for Westminster. The 2017 GE provided evidence of that.
At the 2017 GE in Scotland, the SLab vote was up 2.8%, the SCon vote was up 13.7%. If there were "many" SNP to Lab switchers, there must have been a lot of Lab to Con switchers at the same time.
At the 2017 GE the Labour surge came late in Scotland and had not fully appeared in polls there. As a result quite a few 2015 Labour voters are likely to have misdirected themselves in the mistakenbelief that Labour was not in contention in their own constituencies. That was also encouraged by the clear evidence of Ruth Davidson's Tory surge. Had that not happened . Labour could well have ended up with 12 seats or so - most of the Glasgow results were really close.
If my granny had wheels she could have been a wheelbarrow. Stop making yourself look even more stupid than you are.
I suggest you consult the mirror - and your own 2017 forecasts.
Remind who is the Government in Scotland again, just so I am sure.
No future for Scottish Labour if it remains Unionist, former minister says A FORMER Labour minister has said there is no future for Labour in Scotland if it continues to be a Unionist party.
In an exclusive interview with the Sunday National in the wake of leader Richard Leonard’s resignation, Les Huckfield said that unless the party changed its stance on independence it was “never going to get anywhere”.
That former junior 1970s minister left Labour over the Iraq War and is an SNP member.
Labour is not going to win back Nat voters from the SNP, its best hope is to remain a Unionist Party and win Tory and LD tactical votes to beat the SNP
I believe there are many voters who vote SNP for Holyrood who can be persuaded to support Labour for Westminster. The 2017 GE provided evidence of that.
At the 2017 GE in Scotland, the SLab vote was up 2.8%, the SCon vote was up 13.7%. If there were "many" SNP to Lab switchers, there must have been a lot of Lab to Con switchers at the same time.
No future for Scottish Labour if it remains Unionist, former minister says A FORMER Labour minister has said there is no future for Labour in Scotland if it continues to be a Unionist party.
In an exclusive interview with the Sunday National in the wake of leader Richard Leonard’s resignation, Les Huckfield said that unless the party changed its stance on independence it was “never going to get anywhere”.
That former junior 1970s minister left Labour over the Iraq War and is an SNP member.
Labour is not going to win back Nat voters from the SNP, its best hope is to remain a Unionist Party and win Tory and LD tactical votes to beat the SNP
I believe there are many voters who vote SNP for Holyrood who can be persuaded to support Labour for Westminster. The 2017 GE provided evidence of that.
At the 2017 GE in Scotland, the SLab vote was up 2.8%, the SCon vote was up 13.7%. If there were "many" SNP to Lab switchers, there must have been a lot of Lab to Con switchers at the same time.
At the 2017 GE the Labour surge came late in Scotland and had not fully appeared in polls there. As a result quite a few 2015 Labour voters are likely to have misdirected themselves in the mistakenbelief that Labour was not in contention in their own constituencies. That was also encouraged by the clear evidence of Ruth Davidson's Tory surge. Had that not happened . Labour could well have ended up with 12 seats or so - most of the Glasgow results were really close.
If my granny had wheels she could have been a wheelbarrow. Stop making yourself look even more stupid than you are.
I suggest you consult the mirror - and your own 2017 forecasts.
Remind who is the Government in Scotland again, just so I am sure.
That would be sensible, but hard to see how it can be revenue neutral with every LA in England in roughly the financial position of RBS under Fred the Shred.
It would be vastly revenue generative
Well, it probably would, but that immediately undercuts the idea it would be ‘revenue neutral.’
Whichever way we skin it, taxes have to go up. And that is especially true of local taxes which have been mucked about for years.
But does Sunak have the courage or the influence over the weak populist currently ruining, oops, running the government to push through tax rises?
1. Brexit has not (yet) been the disaster some were excitedly predicting. Yes there are teething issues but, frankly, it has gone quite smoothly so far. We have a trade deal and our vaccine rollout is undeniably faster thanks to shaking off the EU shackles.
Why do you think our vaccine rollout would have been any different if we'd been in the EU and the European Medicines Agency had still been in London?
Because slow as they are, that's not the biggest problem with the EU's scheme.
The EU's scheme is voluntary. We wouldn't have been 'shackled' to it, and it might not even have existed in that form if we had been part of the decision making process.
Once you are round the negotiating table in Brussels, there is a powerful urge to be seen to be "communautaire", i.e. to sell out your country's interests for an illusory payback at the European level, while giving more and more power to the Eurocracy. So, in theory, we could have stayed outside the vaccine scheme if we hadn't left. In practice, we might not have done so. And we have probably saved thousands, or maybe tens of thousands, of lives as a result.
Thank goodness that the UK has 'probably saved thousands, or maybe tens of thousands, of lives' otherwise the UK might have the highest number of deaths in Europe.
In terms of death rate we're some way off highest:
At some point in the next couple of years this pandemic will be declared over by the WHO (yes - honestly - it will) and it is at that point, or maybe shortly before, that we can discuss the success or otherwise of the approach of various countries. In the meantime no one is entitled to count their chickens. It’s a long way to run yet.
And yet it is consistently those looking to attack the UK Government who make the false claims about how the UK is the 'worst in Europe'. Why is your comments about counting chickens only ever seem to be in response to those defending the UK record?
I don’t think that’s true Richard. Okay, I was immediately responding to Carlotta but she was responding to Union Divvie with whom I don’t exactly have the friendliest relationship, as our exchanges will prove. In fact we can’t stand one another’s posts. So I stand by my comment. I would not like to be a sneering Anglophobic Irish commentator on the UK’s response this side of the New Year.
Chill out man, 'can’t stand' exaggerates your impact a fair bit.
He is rather full of himself for a Nomark
At least I can spell.
After your performance last night, we know you cannot read.
Have you replied to the wrong poster? I hope not as there are a few touchy folk around.
No future for Scottish Labour if it remains Unionist, former minister says A FORMER Labour minister has said there is no future for Labour in Scotland if it continues to be a Unionist party.
In an exclusive interview with the Sunday National in the wake of leader Richard Leonard’s resignation, Les Huckfield said that unless the party changed its stance on independence it was “never going to get anywhere”.
That former junior 1970s minister left Labour over the Iraq War and is an SNP member.
Labour is not going to win back Nat voters from the SNP, its best hope is to remain a Unionist Party and win Tory and LD tactical votes to beat the SNP
I believe there are many voters who vote SNP for Holyrood who can be persuaded to support Labour for Westminster. The 2017 GE provided evidence of that.
At the 2017 GE in Scotland, the SLab vote was up 2.8%, the SCon vote was up 13.7%. If there were "many" SNP to Lab switchers, there must have been a lot of Lab to Con switchers at the same time.
No future for Scottish Labour if it remains Unionist, former minister says A FORMER Labour minister has said there is no future for Labour in Scotland if it continues to be a Unionist party.
In an exclusive interview with the Sunday National in the wake of leader Richard Leonard’s resignation, Les Huckfield said that unless the party changed its stance on independence it was “never going to get anywhere”.
That former junior 1970s minister left Labour over the Iraq War and is an SNP member.
Labour is not going to win back Nat voters from the SNP, its best hope is to remain a Unionist Party and win Tory and LD tactical votes to beat the SNP
I believe there are many voters who vote SNP for Holyrood who can be persuaded to support Labour for Westminster. The 2017 GE provided evidence of that.
At the 2017 GE in Scotland, the SLab vote was up 2.8%, the SCon vote was up 13.7%. If there were "many" SNP to Lab switchers, there must have been a lot of Lab to Con switchers at the same time.
At the 2017 GE the Labour surge came late in Scotland and had not fully appeared in polls there. As a result quite a few 2015 Labour voters are likely to have misdirected themselves in the mistakenbelief that Labour was not in contention in their own constituencies. That was also encouraged by the clear evidence of Ruth Davidson's Tory surge. Had that not happened . Labour could well have ended up with 12 seats or so - most of the Glasgow results were really close.
If my granny had wheels she could have been a wheelbarrow. Stop making yourself look even more stupid than you are.
I suggest you consult the mirror - and your own 2017 forecasts.
Remind who is the Government in Scotland again, just so I am sure.
Nicola Sturgeon.
Isn’t she the one you regard as a Yoon sellout for not declaring UDI?
1. Brexit has not (yet) been the disaster some were excitedly predicting. Yes there are teething issues but, frankly, it has gone quite smoothly so far. We have a trade deal and our vaccine rollout is undeniably faster thanks to shaking off the EU shackles.
Why do you think our vaccine rollout would have been any different if we'd been in the EU and the European Medicines Agency had still been in London?
Because slow as they are, that's not the biggest problem with the EU's scheme.
The EU's scheme is voluntary. We wouldn't have been 'shackled' to it, and it might not even have existed in that form if we had been part of the decision making process.
Once you are round the negotiating table in Brussels, there is a powerful urge to be seen to be "communautaire", i.e. to sell out your country's interests for an illusory payback at the European level, while giving more and more power to the Eurocracy. So, in theory, we could have stayed outside the vaccine scheme if we hadn't left. In practice, we might not have done so. And we have probably saved thousands, or maybe tens of thousands, of lives as a result.
Thank goodness that the UK has 'probably saved thousands, or maybe tens of thousands, of lives' otherwise the UK might have the highest number of deaths in Europe.
In terms of death rate we're some way off highest:
At some point in the next couple of years this pandemic will be declared over by the WHO (yes - honestly - it will) and it is at that point, or maybe shortly before, that we can discuss the success or otherwise of the approach of various countries. In the meantime no one is entitled to count their chickens. It’s a long way to run yet.
And yet it is consistently those looking to attack the UK Government who make the false claims about how the UK is the 'worst in Europe'. Why is your comments about counting chickens only ever seem to be in response to those defending the UK record?
I don’t think that’s true Richard. Okay, I was immediately responding to Carlotta but she was responding to Union Divvie with whom I don’t exactly have the friendliest relationship, as our exchanges will prove. In fact we can’t stand one another’s posts. So I stand by my comment. I would not like to be a sneering Anglophobic Irish commentator on the UK’s response this side of the New Year.
Chill out man, 'can’t stand' exaggerates your impact a fair bit.
Being described as a “thin skinned twat” does suggest the opposite.
If the truth hurts
Indeed. That reaction to my post did suggest I had struck a nerve.
If you want to really upset TUD, remind him the Tories helped Salmond into power in 2007.
That causes him to suddenly become like a less imaginative version of Malcolm.
1. Brexit has not (yet) been the disaster some were excitedly predicting. Yes there are teething issues but, frankly, it has gone quite smoothly so far. We have a trade deal and our vaccine rollout is undeniably faster thanks to shaking off the EU shackles.
Why do you think our vaccine rollout would have been any different if we'd been in the EU and the European Medicines Agency had still been in London?
Because slow as they are, that's not the biggest problem with the EU's scheme.
The EU's scheme is voluntary. We wouldn't have been 'shackled' to it, and it might not even have existed in that form if we had been part of the decision making process.
Once you are round the negotiating table in Brussels, there is a powerful urge to be seen to be "communautaire", i.e. to sell out your country's interests for an illusory payback at the European level, while giving more and more power to the Eurocracy. So, in theory, we could have stayed outside the vaccine scheme if we hadn't left. In practice, we might not have done so. And we have probably saved thousands, or maybe tens of thousands, of lives as a result.
Thank goodness that the UK has 'probably saved thousands, or maybe tens of thousands, of lives' otherwise the UK might have the highest number of deaths in Europe.
In terms of death rate we're some way off highest:
At some point in the next couple of years this pandemic will be declared over by the WHO (yes - honestly - it will) and it is at that point, or maybe shortly before, that we can discuss the success or otherwise of the approach of various countries. In the meantime no one is entitled to count their chickens. It’s a long way to run yet.
And yet it is consistently those looking to attack the UK Government who make the false claims about how the UK is the 'worst in Europe'. Why is your comments about counting chickens only ever seem to be in response to those defending the UK record?
I don’t think that’s true Richard. Okay, I was immediately responding to Carlotta but she was responding to Union Divvie with whom I don’t exactly have the friendliest relationship, as our exchanges will prove. In fact we can’t stand one another’s posts. So I stand by my comment. I would not like to be a sneering Anglophobic Irish commentator on the UK’s response this side of the New Year.
Chill out man, 'can’t stand' exaggerates your impact a fair bit.
Being described as a “thin skinned twat” does suggest the opposite.
If the truth hurts
Indeed. That reaction to my post did suggest I had struck a nerve.
If you want to really upset TUD, remind him the Tories helped Salmond into power in 2007.
That causes him to suddenly become like a less imaginative version of Malcolm.
I also blame Blair to some extent. Had he quit as PM in late April 2007 rather than late June, Brown's initial polling boost would probably have kept Salmond out in the May election that year.
Been speaking to one of my father's ex colleagues who is dealing with the roll out of the vaccine, the one number we need to keep our eye on.
The number of daily vaccinations needs to be around 3x the number of daily infections, if we can maintain that, then we really are going gangbusters, currently we're at vaccinations being 4x the number of daily infections.
Daily reported infections or the modelled number based on surveying that is normally significantly higher?
Daily reported, he's working on the assumption that with the number of asymptomatic cases coupled with people who aren't getting tested despite having symptoms.
Apparently the big issue on the horizons are people who won't get vaccinated, and according to the behavioural scientists there's a chunk of people who think the vaccine is a cure, which means they can ignore the rules, and if they can catch the disease the vaccine will cure them.
1. Brexit has not (yet) been the disaster some were excitedly predicting. Yes there are teething issues but, frankly, it has gone quite smoothly so far. We have a trade deal and our vaccine rollout is undeniably faster thanks to shaking off the EU shackles.
Why do you think our vaccine rollout would have been any different if we'd been in the EU and the European Medicines Agency had still been in London?
Because slow as they are, that's not the biggest problem with the EU's scheme.
The EU's scheme is voluntary. We wouldn't have been 'shackled' to it, and it might not even have existed in that form if we had been part of the decision making process.
Once you are round the negotiating table in Brussels, there is a powerful urge to be seen to be "communautaire", i.e. to sell out your country's interests for an illusory payback at the European level, while giving more and more power to the Eurocracy. So, in theory, we could have stayed outside the vaccine scheme if we hadn't left. In practice, we might not have done so. And we have probably saved thousands, or maybe tens of thousands, of lives as a result.
Thank goodness that the UK has 'probably saved thousands, or maybe tens of thousands, of lives' otherwise the UK might have the highest number of deaths in Europe.
In terms of death rate we're some way off highest:
At some point in the next couple of years this pandemic will be declared over by the WHO (yes - honestly - it will) and it is at that point, or maybe shortly before, that we can discuss the success or otherwise of the approach of various countries. In the meantime no one is entitled to count their chickens. It’s a long way to run yet.
And yet it is consistently those looking to attack the UK Government who make the false claims about how the UK is the 'worst in Europe'. Why is your comments about counting chickens only ever seem to be in response to those defending the UK record?
I don’t think that’s true Richard. Okay, I was immediately responding to Carlotta but she was responding to Union Divvie with whom I don’t exactly have the friendliest relationship, as our exchanges will prove. In fact we can’t stand one another’s posts. So I stand by my comment. I would not like to be a sneering Anglophobic Irish commentator on the UK’s response this side of the New Year.
Chill out man, 'can’t stand' exaggerates your impact a fair bit.
He is rather full of himself for a Nomark
At least I can spell.
After your performance last night, we know you cannot read.
Have you replied to the wrong poster? I hope not as there are a few touchy folk around.
Yup, meant to reply to Malcolm, I'm multitasking at the moment.
Been speaking to one of my father's ex colleagues who is dealing with the roll out of the vaccine, the one number we need to keep our eye on.
The number of daily vaccinations needs to be around 3x the number of daily infections, if we can maintain that, then we really are going gangbusters, currently we're at vaccinations being 4x the number of daily infections.
Daily reported infections or the modelled number based on surveying that is normally significantly higher?
Daily reported, he's working on the assumption that with the number of asymptomatic cases coupled with people who aren't getting tested despite having symptoms.
Apparently the big issue on the horizons are people who won't get vaccinated, and according to the behavioural scientists there's a chunk of people who think the vaccine is a cure, which means they can ignore the rules, and if they can catch the disease the vaccine will cure them.
Hopefully we might be at 10x that number next week. 500k/day jabs.
As you say the big issue as identified yesterday, in some places far too many vulnerable people are saying no. Upto 50%.
Australia not happy with pfizer jab. Want more info.
Australians obviously have a hugely different genetic makeup to the UK. Honestly this new "my regulation is safer than yours" dick waving by some countries is tiresome.
I was intensely annoyed by Alastair Darling's failure in the second Independence Debate to remind Alex Salmond of the role played by the SNP in helping Thatcher and the Tories to gain power in 1979. I suspect there continues to be mileage in that message. 'The SNP helped the Wicked Witch to get into No 10.'
A more careful reading of what went down in 1978-79 would help you realise it's not an episode that Labour ought to be keen to relive.
Besides, what do you think would have happened across that summer of 79 that would have saved Labour from the thumping it got in May? There would have had to be an election before five more months were up.
No future for Scottish Labour if it remains Unionist, former minister says A FORMER Labour minister has said there is no future for Labour in Scotland if it continues to be a Unionist party.
In an exclusive interview with the Sunday National in the wake of leader Richard Leonard’s resignation, Les Huckfield said that unless the party changed its stance on independence it was “never going to get anywhere”.
That former junior 1970s minister left Labour over the Iraq War and is an SNP member.
Labour is not going to win back Nat voters from the SNP, its best hope is to remain a Unionist Party and win Tory and LD tactical votes to beat the SNP
I believe there are many voters who vote SNP for Holyrood who can be persuaded to support Labour for Westminster. The 2017 GE provided evidence of that.
At the 2017 GE in Scotland, the SLab vote was up 2.8%, the SCon vote was up 13.7%. If there were "many" SNP to Lab switchers, there must have been a lot of Lab to Con switchers at the same time.
Alan you are talking to a dumbass labour supporter, he cannot understand the numbers you show. Just keeps head up his butt thinking Labour have any chance or relevance.
There speaks the guy who assured us in 2017 that there was no chance of the SNP failing to win at least 50 seats!
Labour won 3 seats at last election versus SNP 47, the parasites depend on losers region seats to get any numbers at all. Go away and stop embarrassing yourself. Think on that 3 out of 59 seats , absolute pariahs.
Been speaking to one of my father's ex colleagues who is dealing with the roll out of the vaccine, the one number we need to keep our eye on.
The number of daily vaccinations needs to be around 3x the number of daily infections, if we can maintain that, then we really are going gangbusters, currently we're at vaccinations being 4x the number of daily infections.
Daily reported infections or the modelled number based on surveying that is normally significantly higher?
Daily reported, he's working on the assumption that with the number of asymptomatic cases coupled with people who aren't getting tested despite having symptoms.
Apparently the big issue on the horizons are people who won't get vaccinated, and according to the behavioural scientists there's a chunk of people who think the vaccine is a cure, which means they can ignore the rules, and if they can catch the disease the vaccine will cure them.
Yes, it's one of the major reasons why the restrictions will stay even with 3-4m people being jabbed per week. I think we may get a limited opening of non-essential shops in late Feb and schools will be back for the summer term assuming teachers have all had at least one dose and clinically vulnerable teachers have had both.
No future for Scottish Labour if it remains Unionist, former minister says A FORMER Labour minister has said there is no future for Labour in Scotland if it continues to be a Unionist party.
In an exclusive interview with the Sunday National in the wake of leader Richard Leonard’s resignation, Les Huckfield said that unless the party changed its stance on independence it was “never going to get anywhere”.
That former junior 1970s minister left Labour over the Iraq War and is an SNP member.
Labour is not going to win back Nat voters from the SNP, its best hope is to remain a Unionist Party and win Tory and LD tactical votes to beat the SNP
No future for Scottish Labour if it remains Unionist, former minister says A FORMER Labour minister has said there is no future for Labour in Scotland if it continues to be a Unionist party.
In an exclusive interview with the Sunday National in the wake of leader Richard Leonard’s resignation, Les Huckfield said that unless the party changed its stance on independence it was “never going to get anywhere”.
That former junior 1970s minister left Labour over the Iraq War and is an SNP member.
Labour is not going to win back Nat voters from the SNP, its best hope is to remain a Unionist Party and win Tory and LD tactical votes to beat the SNP
I believe there are many voters who vote SNP for Holyrood who can be persuaded to support Labour for Westminster. The 2017 GE provided evidence of that.
What could change things quite radically is if in 2024 Starmer does well enough outside of Scotland to be invited to form a minority UK government and then puts forward a social-democratic programme that non-Tory voters in Scotland would generally have sympathy with, only for the SNP to bring down that government in the cause of secession. A second 2024 GE conducted in those circumstances would be interesting.
SNP supporters here, for all their bravado, prefer to gloss over what happened in a similar scenario in 1979.
I think that 1979 was rather a long time ago!
The other point here is somethijng that people seem to keep forgetting. The SNP won't be voting on "English" matters under EVEL even were they to go against their own doctrine. So if SKS needs the SNP vote for a HoC majortity, things will get very difficult very quickly anyway with Mr Gove or whoever a de facto English Prime Minister at the same time as SKS is PM of the UK.
1. Brexit has not (yet) been the disaster some were excitedly predicting. Yes there are teething issues but, frankly, it has gone quite smoothly so far. We have a trade deal and our vaccine rollout is undeniably faster thanks to shaking off the EU shackles.
Why do you think our vaccine rollout would have been any different if we'd been in the EU and the European Medicines Agency had still been in London?
Because slow as they are, that's not the biggest problem with the EU's scheme.
The EU's scheme is voluntary. We wouldn't have been 'shackled' to it, and it might not even have existed in that form if we had been part of the decision making process.
Once you are round the negotiating table in Brussels, there is a powerful urge to be seen to be "communautaire", i.e. to sell out your country's interests for an illusory payback at the European level, while giving more and more power to the Eurocracy. So, in theory, we could have stayed outside the vaccine scheme if we hadn't left. In practice, we might not have done so. And we have probably saved thousands, or maybe tens of thousands, of lives as a result.
Thank goodness that the UK has 'probably saved thousands, or maybe tens of thousands, of lives' otherwise the UK might have the highest number of deaths in Europe.
In terms of death rate we're some way off highest:
There are no countries outside Europe that are any worse. So what you are really saying is that we have the sixth highest death rate in the entire world. Which doesn’t justify your commentary.
No future for Scottish Labour if it remains Unionist, former minister says A FORMER Labour minister has said there is no future for Labour in Scotland if it continues to be a Unionist party.
In an exclusive interview with the Sunday National in the wake of leader Richard Leonard’s resignation, Les Huckfield said that unless the party changed its stance on independence it was “never going to get anywhere”.
That former junior 1970s minister left Labour over the Iraq War and is an SNP member.
Labour is not going to win back Nat voters from the SNP, its best hope is to remain a Unionist Party and win Tory and LD tactical votes to beat the SNP
I believe there are many voters who vote SNP for Holyrood who can be persuaded to support Labour for Westminster. The 2017 GE provided evidence of that.
At the 2017 GE in Scotland, the SLab vote was up 2.8%, the SCon vote was up 13.7%. If there were "many" SNP to Lab switchers, there must have been a lot of Lab to Con switchers at the same time.
Alan you are talking to a dumbass labour supporter, he cannot understand the numbers you show. Just keeps head up his butt thinking Labour have any chance or relevance.
There speaks the guy who assured us in 2017 that there was no chance of the SNP failing to win at least 50 seats!
Think I could safely say this time it will be well over 50 and likely to be between 57-59. Losers wiull be scrambling for list seats, what is the bet the new "leader" puts themselves top for list seats.
1. Brexit has not (yet) been the disaster some were excitedly predicting. Yes there are teething issues but, frankly, it has gone quite smoothly so far. We have a trade deal and our vaccine rollout is undeniably faster thanks to shaking off the EU shackles.
Why do you think our vaccine rollout would have been any different if we'd been in the EU and the European Medicines Agency had still been in London?
Because slow as they are, that's not the biggest problem with the EU's scheme.
The EU's scheme is voluntary. We wouldn't have been 'shackled' to it, and it might not even have existed in that form if we had been part of the decision making process.
Once you are round the negotiating table in Brussels, there is a powerful urge to be seen to be "communautaire", i.e. to sell out your country's interests for an illusory payback at the European level, while giving more and more power to the Eurocracy. So, in theory, we could have stayed outside the vaccine scheme if we hadn't left. In practice, we might not have done so. And we have probably saved thousands, or maybe tens of thousands, of lives as a result.
Thank goodness that the UK has 'probably saved thousands, or maybe tens of thousands, of lives' otherwise the UK might have the highest number of deaths in Europe.
In terms of death rate we're some way off highest:
There are no countries outside Europe that are any worse. So what you are really saying is that we have the sixth highest death rate in the entire world. Which doesn’t justify your commentary.
I was intensely annoyed by Alastair Darling's failure in the second Independence Debate to remind Alex Salmond of the role played by the SNP in helping Thatcher and the Tories to gain power in 1979. I suspect there continues to be mileage in that message. 'The SNP helped the Wicked Witch to get into No 10.'
As the beginning of their long term strategy that took them from a handful of seats on the fringe to their current dominance, that decision was insightful.
If there was a single decision that did the most to turn Scotland against England, it was Mrs T’s using them as guinea pigs for the poll tax.
'Thatcher and BJ, the bookends of Scottish Independence' has a certain ring to it.
It hasn’t done the country any favours, but the SNP did realise early on that the more Scot-unfriendly the UK government, the better their long run prospects.
Having supported a party that has got almost every strategic decision wrong during my lifetime of membership, credit to the SNP for having achieved the opposite.
There has been no serious inquiry by the Labour Party into the origin of the catastrophe of 2015 in Scotland .
Maybe 2015-2021 were turbulent times for the Labour party, but it seems a huge oversight.
It seems unlikely to me that Labour can recover its old seats in Scotland without an understanding of the origin(s) of what happened.
And without those seats, it seems unlikely to me that Labour can ever get a majority in Westminster.
I must say ti does seem odd. It's a pity we don't have a reasonably sane current Slabber on PB here any more. It'd be nice to get it from the horse's mouth.
» show previous quotes There are no countries outside Europe that are any worse. So what you are really saying is that we have the sixth highest death rate in the entire world. Which doesn’t justify your commentary.
I was intensely annoyed by Alastair Darling's failure in the second Independence Debate to remind Alex Salmond of the role played by the SNP in helping Thatcher and the Tories to gain power in 1979. I suspect there continues to be mileage in that message. 'The SNP helped the Wicked Witch to get into No 10.'
A more careful reading of what went down in 1978-79 would help you realise it's not an episode that Labour ought to be keen to relive.
Besides, what do you think would have happened across that summer of 79 that would have saved Labour from the thumping it got in May? There would have had to be an election before five more months were up.
I was intensely annoyed by Alastair Darling's failure in the second Independence Debate to remind Alex Salmond of the role played by the SNP in helping Thatcher and the Tories to gain power in 1979. I suspect there continues to be mileage in that message. 'The SNP helped the Wicked Witch to get into No 10.'
A more careful reading of what went down in 1978-79 would help you realise it's not an episode that Labour ought to be keen to relive.
Besides, what do you think would have happened across that summer of 79 that would have saved Labour from the thumping it got in May? There would have had to be an election before five more months were up.
Having made the disastrous - and unforgiveable - miscalculation not to hold an election in Autumn 1978, Callaghan should have called the GE for 7th June 1979 - which was five weeks later than the actual date 3rd May. That would have coincided with the first direct elections to the European Parliament , and made it a fair bit more likely that the Common Market would have featured prominently in the campaign. At the time Labour was the more Eurosceptic of the main parties - as was the SNP. People such as John Silkin - the Agriculture & Fisheries Minister - would have shifted a few votes back to Labour . Beyond that, it would have given Callaghan a further five weeks to help memories of the Winter of Discontent to fade. As a party leader , he was hopeless. Had this happened, I suspect the Tory lead on Polling Day would have been in the 2% - 3% range - rather than the 7% margin achieved on 3rd May.
» show previous quotes There are no countries outside Europe that are any worse. So what you are really saying is that we have the sixth highest death rate in the entire world. Which doesn’t justify your commentary.
Boris worshippers will never admit that.
It's interesting that in lots of countries people believe that their government has been uniquely bad in dealing with the pandemic. Shows what a narrow focus many people have.
No future for Scottish Labour if it remains Unionist, former minister says A FORMER Labour minister has said there is no future for Labour in Scotland if it continues to be a Unionist party.
In an exclusive interview with the Sunday National in the wake of leader Richard Leonard’s resignation, Les Huckfield said that unless the party changed its stance on independence it was “never going to get anywhere”.
That former junior 1970s minister left Labour over the Iraq War and is an SNP member.
Labour is not going to win back Nat voters from the SNP, its best hope is to remain a Unionist Party and win Tory and LD tactical votes to beat the SNP
I believe there are many voters who vote SNP for Holyrood who can be persuaded to support Labour for Westminster. The 2017 GE provided evidence of that.
At the 2017 GE in Scotland, the SLab vote was up 2.8%, the SCon vote was up 13.7%. If there were "many" SNP to Lab switchers, there must have been a lot of Lab to Con switchers at the same time.
Alan you are talking to a dumbass labour supporter, he cannot understand the numbers you show. Just keeps head up his butt thinking Labour have any chance or relevance.
There speaks the guy who assured us in 2017 that there was no chance of the SNP failing to win at least 50 seats!
Think I could safely say this time it will be well over 50 and likely to be between 57-59. Losers wiull be scrambling for list seats, what is the bet the new "leader" puts themselves top for list seats.
In 2017 you were referring to the Westminster election.
Comments
If there were "many" SNP to Lab switchers, there must have been a lot of Lab to Con switchers at the same time.
I suspect it's because if you say something enough times some people believe it but there may be other factors in play that would be worth identifying so that they can be corrected earlier.
The bare numbers alone ignore the theoretically increased risk of vaccine resistant mutations as a result of the much longer gap between the first and second shots and the significant number of people for whom the first shot doesn’t provide great protection.
I don’t know how large an increased risk that might be, given that current worrying mutations have arisen anyway in unvaccinated populations.
The experts don’t seem to know either, so my opinion is worthless, but they do agree that it is non zero.
However, I have always thought far stranger than that is the idea that the actions of the SNP in 1979 would have any bearing on how people would decide to cast their votes today. I know justin is a big fan of some old fashioned values, but I find it rather unlikely significant numbers of people would change their minds on being reminded of something that happened politically 40 years ago.
Pulling out the Thatcher gambit, left or right, unionist or nationalist, Scotland or UK, is the clear sign of people with their politics rooted in nostalgia for their youth, eager to replay the greatest hits.
https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/1039501032257212416
https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/1039501443248672768
most populous countries have highest numbers is a white hot take.
https://twitter.com/AaronBastani/status/916803894793162752?s=20
https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/matt-zarb-cousin-admit-it-corbyn-has-saved-scottish-labour-1445562
To be fair, Nicola Sturgeon tried to spin it that way as well.
https://www.holyrood.com/news/view,snp-lost-out-from-surge-in-support-for-jeremy-corbyn-says-nicola-sturgeon_13567.htm
When HMG get criticised it is primarily led by the opposition and their supporters who want to bring down the government at the next election, take over and replace it.
The EU is institutional. There is no opposition in the EU to take over or lead criticism.
If the EU was a properly ran democracy with proper accountability then the individuals might get the criticism. It isn't, so the EU deserves it itself.
Anyhoo get back to me when you tipped the Tories to win over 9.5 Scottish seats at GE2017 at 20/1.
*Legendary modesty klaxon*
Just think of all the poor SCons still stuck with biting their lips and withholding their innermost feelings.
https://twitter.com/DrHannahGraham/status/1350776387087560705?s=20
If there was a single decision that did the most to turn Scotland against England, it was Mrs T’s using them as guinea pigs for the poll tax.
"As the vote loomed, Labour's deputy Chief Whip, Walter Harrison approached Weatherill to enforce the pairing convention that if a sick MP from the Government could not vote, an MP from the Opposition would abstain to compensate. Weatherill said that pairing had never been intended for votes on Matters of Confidence that meant the life or death of the Government and it would be impossible to find a Conservative MP who would agree to abstain.
However, after a moment's reflection, he offered that he himself would abstain, because he felt it would be dishonourable to break his word with Harrison. Harrison was so impressed by Weatherill's offer – which would have effectively ended his political career – that he released Weatherill from his obligation and so the Government fell by one vote on the agreement of gentlemen"
Englishunionist influence. The website is based out of Oxford but the data is from Johns Hopkins in the UShttps://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus-data-explorer?tab=map&zoomToSelection=true&country=BEL~SVN~ITA~BIH~CZE~GBR~MKD~BGR~HUN~ESP®ion=Europe&deathsMetric=true&interval=total&perCapita=true&smoothing=0&pickerMetric=location&pickerSort=desc
You appear to be ignoring the 'churn' factor in Scotland ihat year. Labour did gain votes from the SNP - but lost quite a few to the Tories. Had the latter not happened, Labour probably would have managed 12 seats - and possibly exceeded the Tory 13 seat total.
The number of daily vaccinations needs to be around 3x the number of daily infections, if we can maintain that, then we really are going gangbusters, currently we're at vaccinations being 4x the number of daily infections.
Surely as R comes down new infections will come down while vaccination numbers are going to go up.
I would hope before long we will be at 5x then 10x the number of daily infections. EG 50k infections and 500k vaccinations.
That causes him to suddenly become like a less imaginative version of Malcolm.
Whichever way we skin it, taxes have to go up. And that is especially true of local taxes which have been mucked about for years.
But does Sunak have the courage or the influence over the weak populist currently ruining, oops, running the government to push through tax rises?
Isn’t she the one you regard as a Yoon sellout for not declaring UDI?
Apparently the big issue on the horizons are people who won't get vaccinated, and according to the behavioural scientists there's a chunk of people who think the vaccine is a cure, which means they can ignore the rules, and if they can catch the disease the vaccine will cure them.
As you say the big issue as identified yesterday, in some places far too many vulnerable people are saying no. Upto 50%.
Besides, what do you think would have happened across that summer of 79 that would have saved Labour from the thumping it got in May? There would have had to be an election before five more months were up.
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Think on that 3 out of 59 seats , absolute pariahs.
The other point here is somethijng that people seem to keep forgetting. The SNP won't be voting on "English" matters under EVEL even were they to go against their own doctrine. So if SKS needs the SNP vote for a HoC majortity, things will get very difficult very quickly anyway with Mr Gove or whoever a de facto English Prime Minister at the same time as SKS is PM of the UK.
So, the answer to my question appears to be:
There has been no serious inquiry by the Labour Party into the origin of the catastrophe of 2015 in Scotland .
Maybe 2015-2021 were turbulent times for the Labour party, but it seems a huge oversight.
It seems unlikely to me that Labour can recover its old seats in Scotland without an understanding of the origin(s) of what happened.
And without those seats, it seems unlikely to me that Labour can ever get a majority in Westminster.
Having supported a party that has got almost every strategic decision wrong during my lifetime of membership, credit to the SNP for having achieved the opposite.
IanB2 said:
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There are no countries outside Europe that are any worse. So what you are really saying is that we have the sixth highest death rate in the entire world. Which doesn’t justify your commentary.
Boris worshippers will never admit that.