politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Trying to call the Scottish Independence Referendum has be
There’s a new YouGov IndyRef poll out overnght which has, after the exclusion of the DKs, NO with a comfortable 20% lead. This is exactly in line with the average of YouGov IndyRef polls so far this year.
Comments
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Can I just say "I hate early morning flights"
OGH - why do you pay attention to online/panel bases surveys? Surely these will be impacted by differential obsessiveness - helping the nationalist cause? It's very similar in the way that online overstates UKIP vs phone polls.0 -
Labour not listening
"More than half of Labour's MP candidates in winnable seats for the general election have already worked in politics, new research has found.
The party has stuffed its hit list of potential new MPs with former special advisers, party workers and lobbyists - compared to just 17 per cent of Conservative candidates with political backgrounds, and 46 per cent of Liberal Democrats.
It will fuel concerns about the development of a 'political class' of people who have never worked in real world jobs, which the public repeatedly say in polls turns them off voting. "
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2660810/The-Labour-candidates-whove-never-real-job-Half-standing-winnable-seats-job-politics.html#ixzz34xlVzJYp
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Latest McARSE Scottish Referendum Projection Countdown
3 hours0 -
MikeSmithson wrote :
"One thing’s for sure – NO is not a certainty."
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Almost correct - NO is a racing certainty0 -
Nonsense.Blue_rog said:
You can never underestimate Scottish appetite for self destruction.JackW said:MikeSmithson wrote :
"One thing’s for sure – NO is not a certainty."
......................................................................
Almost correct - NO is a racing certainty
The only Scottish appetite I detect presently is a very healthy one for the destruction of my wonderfully unhealthy cooked breakfast .....
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Horsefeathers!Blue_rog said:
You can never underestimate Scottish appetite for self destruction.JackW said:MikeSmithson wrote :
"One thing’s for sure – NO is not a certainty."
......................................................................
Almost correct - NO is a racing certainty
"enlightened self interest" is why they joined a Union in 1707, and enlightened self interest is why they will choose to remain in 2014.0 -
@harryph: The number who regard @Ed_Miliband as "a natural leader" has fallen from 3% to 2% on @YouGov http://t.co/hhH1JUoygT0
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"NO is not a certainty"
Disregarding the possibility of the remaining three months of the campaign changing minds, it must be pretty close to certain. At least 90% likely if the referendum were today.
There is, as you say, a large variation between pollsters, but even that range of 16 in the lead has all polls giving NO a lead. All the polls would look rubbish if the true NO lead was about 2%, but that would still be enough for victory in a referendum held today.
The main reason to be wary about committing to a NO victory are the relatively late changes in voting intention for the AV referendum and Holyrood elections - both in 2011. That sort of swing in Salmond's favour this September sees Scotland vote for Independence.0 -
I don't see No as a certainty. But for the reasons that OblitusSumMe gives, I do see it as very likely. The bigger question is the margin.0
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For the morning crowd, I put up a new post last night:
http://newstonoone.blogspot.co.uk/2014/06/the-conservative-battleground-june-2014.html
I've had a look at how prices have changed on the Conservatives in the seats where they're likely to be competitive.
I've probably time left to do about three more posts now before I disappear for three months. I shall probably be using them to look at the Labour price changes and then reviewing where the Lib Dems are placed following the recent bout of elections.0 -
How many polls have given Yes a lead?0
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I'm on Basingstoke for £100 off the back of this. 1-6 looks very generous. I note it stayed Blue in 1997.antifrank said:For the morning crowd, I put up a new post last night:
http://newstonoone.blogspot.co.uk/2014/06/the-conservative-battleground-june-2014.html
I've had a look at how prices have changed on the Conservatives in the seats where they're likely to be competitive.
I've probably time left to do about three more posts now before I disappear for three months. I shall probably be using them to look at the Labour price changes and then reviewing where the Lib Dems are placed following the recent bout of elections.
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@Pulpstar That appears to have been a spasm based around Maria Miller's expenses troubles. I can't understand this price.0
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I agree with OblitisSumMe. If the pollsters are right then no wins. None of them yet have yes within a margin of error.
I also agree with Mike, however. How much confidence can we have in any of the polling given the lack of a track record, no guidance as to weighting etc.? Weighting by previous voting is problematic.
Not all SNP voters, many of whom were just sick of Labour and wanted an alternative, are going to vote Yes. There is the odd tory who is going to vote Yes although they are the most homogeneous group so far as I can see. Weighting by social group really doesn't help when you have no comparator as to how that social group voted before.
The building blocks that I see are that the tories and most Lib Dems will vote no. The vast majority, although not all of SNP supporters will vote yes. In the middle is the very large Labour vote. How will that split?
If it goes majority no then no wins. At the moment that is the most likely but there are risk factors. One is the truly awful perception of Ed Miliband. The figures that Scott_P has linked to are really worth a look. 58% of Scots on the subsample think he doesn't have a single good quality and another 11% don't know. Large numbers of Labour voters in Scotland are completely uninspired by voting for or being led by the dork.
Another is the still strong hostility to the tories in Scotland. If they gain national leads Labour supporters unenamoured with Ed will give serious thought as to whether we would be better off without these English tory persons of doubtful heritage.
I do not see perceptions of Ed improving. The risk factor in the Indy referendum remains the second one. If the tories gain national leads by September this will be to close to call. If they don't I think No wins.0 -
Latest McARSE Scottish Referendum Projection Countdown
1 hour 1minute 1 second0 -
1-6 odds now pay 18% APR not 16.7% because we are 11 months from the election
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Good Yougov for Conservative btw I note over they found over 500 in an 1897 sample whilst still being slightly underweight on 2010 Cons - thats pretty good internals in my book.0
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Blame me for that.antifrank said:@Pulpstar That appears to have been a spasm based around Maria Miller's expenses troubles. I can't understand this price.
I stuck a portion of my winnings from Maria Miller's resignation (I tipped her at 14/1 as next out of the cabinet, have I ever mentioned that?)
My logic was given the huge amounts involved (90k in expenses) and that a lot of her constituents do the daily commute from Basingstoke to London, her standing again in 2015 may cause some antipathy and anger at her and the right UKIP candidate could do well, especially if Labour voters vote tactically to unseat her.
But I understand why you and Pulpstar have gone for the 1/6. I may join you both shortly.0 -
It's also quite interesting because if eg. Nick Palmer (white, middle class, male, intellectual, etc) wanted to be a PPC for the Cons he wouldn't have a cat's (or, if you are Jeanette Winterson, a rabbit's) chance in hell.Financier said:Labour not listening
"More than half of Labour's MP candidates in winnable seats for the general election have already worked in politics, new research has found.
The party has stuffed its hit list of potential new MPs with former special advisers, party workers and lobbyists - compared to just 17 per cent of Conservative candidates with political backgrounds, and 46 per cent of Liberal Democrats.
It will fuel concerns about the development of a 'political class' of people who have never worked in real world jobs, which the public repeatedly say in polls turns them off voting. "
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2660810/The-Labour-candidates-whove-never-real-job-Half-standing-winnable-seats-job-politics.html#ixzz34xlVzJYp0 -
It's sad that so many Scots can only tolerate the Union if there's perpetual left-wing government.DavidL said:I agree with OblitisSumMe. If the pollsters are right then no wins. None of them yet have yes within a margin of error.
I also agree with Mike, however. How much confidence can we have in any of the polling given the lack of a track record, no guidance as to weighting etc.? Weighting by previous voting is problematic.
Not all SNP voters, many of whom were just sick of Labour and wanted an alternative, are going to vote Yes. There is the odd tory who is going to vote Yes although they are the most homogeneous group so far as I can see. Weighting by social group really doesn't help when you have no comparator as to how that social group voted before.
The building blocks that I see are that the tories and most Lib Dems will vote no. The vast majority, although not all of SNP supporters will vote yes. In the middle is the very large Labour vote. How will that split?
If it goes majority no then no wins. At the moment that is the most likely but there are risk factors. One is the truly awful perception of Ed Miliband. The figures that Scott_P has linked to are really worth a look. 58% of Scots on the subsample think he doesn't have a single good quality and another 11% don't know. Large numbers of Labour voters in Scotland are completely uninspired by voting for or being led by the dork.
Another is the still strong hostility to the tories in Scotland. If they gain national leads Labour supporters unenamoured with Ed will give serious thought as to whether we would be better off without these English tory persons of doubtful heritage.
I do not see perceptions of Ed improving. The risk factor in the Indy referendum remains the second one. If the tories gain national leads by September this will be to close to call. If they don't I think No wins.
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Latest YG LAB 341 CON 267 LD 17 Others 26 (UKPR)
Ed is Crap is PM (Less than 11 months to go)0 -
Good morning, everyone.
Mr. F, I quite agree, particularly after we had 13 years of Scottish chancellors and the PM's predecessor was Scottish.0 -
After another profitable day at the World Cup here's my tips for today.
The Flamin' Galahs to beat The Netherlands (16/1)
Chile to beat Spain (11/2)
Cameroon to defeat Croatia. (19/4)0 -
One of the things that most people on this site miss, is the hatred that Alec Salmond engenders in most Scottish Labour supporters. There is a lot of history here, as most supporters of the SNP and Labour will agree on.DavidL said:I agree with OblitisSumMe. If the pollsters are right then no wins. None of them yet have yes within a margin of error.
I also agree with Mike, however. How much confidence can we have in any of the polling given the lack of a track record, no guidance as to weighting etc.? Weighting by previous voting is problematic.
Not all SNP voters, many of whom were just sick of Labour and wanted an alternative, are going to vote Yes. There is the odd tory who is going to vote Yes although they are the most homogeneous group so far as I can see. Weighting by social group really doesn't help when you have no comparator as to how that social group voted before.
The building blocks that I see are that the tories and most Lib Dems will vote no. The vast majority, although not all of SNP supporters will vote yes. In the middle is the very large Labour vote. How will that split?
If it goes majority no then no wins. At the moment that is the most likely but there are risk factors. One is the truly awful perception of Ed Miliband. The figures that Scott_P has linked to are really worth a look. 58% of Scots on the subsample think he doesn't have a single good quality and another 11% don't know. Large numbers of Labour voters in Scotland are completely uninspired by voting for or being led by the dork.
Another is the still strong hostility to the tories in Scotland. If they gain national leads Labour supporters unenamoured with Ed will give serious thought as to whether we would be better off without these English tory persons of doubtful heritage.
I do not see perceptions of Ed improving. The risk factor in the Indy referendum remains the second one. If the tories gain national leads by September this will be to close to call. If they don't I think No wins.0 -
Under the last Labour government, both their Prime Ministers were Scottish born.Morris_Dancer said:Good morning, everyone.
Mr. F, I quite agree, particularly after we had 13 years of Scottish chancellors and the PM's predecessor was Scottish.
It is often forgotten Tony Blair was born in Edinburgh
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This is an article once again based on OGH talking his own book.
Based on the evidence he has put in front of us NO is a certainty but the body of the article says it isn't .
Seems somewhat schizophrenic to me....0 -
Huntingdon could be worth a look. You have a not very well-regarded Tory MP. A very popular UKIP county councillor, standing at Parliamentary level. UKIP came first in the Euros, and a close second in the locals in 2013/14, and are now the official opposition on the district council. And there's no risk that voting UKIP will let in either Labour or Lib Dems.TheScreamingEagles said:
Blame me for that.antifrank said:@Pulpstar That appears to have been a spasm based around Maria Miller's expenses troubles. I can't understand this price.
I stuck a portion of my winnings from Maria Miller's resignation (I tipped her at 14/1 as next out of the cabinet, have I ever mentioned that?)
My logic was given the huge amounts involved (90k in expenses) and that a lot of her constituents do the daily commute from Basingstoke to London, her standing again in 2015 may cause some antipathy and anger at her and the right UKIP candidate could do well, especially if Labour voters vote tactically to unseat her.
But I understand why you and Pulpstar have gone for the 1/6. I may join you both shortly.
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Mr. Eagles, indeed.
If Scotland does vote Yes I think the only fair thing would for Blair to be split between the two countries.0 -
He also went to Fettes which if I understand it is like a Scots Eton.TheScreamingEagles said:
Under the last Labour government, both their Prime Ministers were Scottish born.Morris_Dancer said:Good morning, everyone.
Mr. F, I quite agree, particularly after we had 13 years of Scottish chancellors and the PM's predecessor was Scottish.
It is often forgotten Tony Blair was born in Edinburgh
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Seems strange to think 23 years after Huntingdon returned Sir John Major with a 36,000 vote majority that the Tories could lose it.Sean_F said:
Huntingdon could be worth a look. You have a not very well-regarded Tory MP. A very popular UKIP county councillor, standing at Parliamentary level. UKIP came first in the Euros, and a close second in the locals in 2013/14, and are now the official opposition on the district council. And there's no risk that voting UKIP will let in either Labour or Lib Dems.TheScreamingEagles said:
Blame me for that.antifrank said:@Pulpstar That appears to have been a spasm based around Maria Miller's expenses troubles. I can't understand this price.
I stuck a portion of my winnings from Maria Miller's resignation (I tipped her at 14/1 as next out of the cabinet, have I ever mentioned that?)
My logic was given the huge amounts involved (90k in expenses) and that a lot of her constituents do the daily commute from Basingstoke to London, her standing again in 2015 may cause some antipathy and anger at her and the right UKIP candidate could do well, especially if Labour voters vote tactically to unseat her.
But I understand why you and Pulpstar have gone for the 1/6. I may join you both shortly.
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He did and it is.ToryJim said:
He also went to Fettes which if I understand it is like a Scots Eton.TheScreamingEagles said:
Under the last Labour government, both their Prime Ministers were Scottish born.Morris_Dancer said:Good morning, everyone.
Mr. F, I quite agree, particularly after we had 13 years of Scottish chancellors and the PM's predecessor was Scottish.
It is often forgotten Tony Blair was born in Edinburgh
When James Bond was expelled from Eton he went to Fettes
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I missed your Jack W dozen yesterday. If your ARSE is capable of a repeat, I would be most grateful.JackW said:
Latest McARSE Scottish Referendum Projection Countdown
1 hour 1minute 1 second0 -
Latest McARSE Scottish Referendum Projection Countdown :
11 minutes 11 seconds0 -
Morning.Morris_Dancer said:Good morning, everyone.
Mr. F, I quite agree, particularly after we had 13 years of Scottish chancellors and the PM's predecessor was Scottish.
That these Labour gents were Scottish (and in what senses? birth, residence, holding a Scots passport, spirit of mind, Scottish or, to quote Mr Brown's little, I assume, joke, 'North British'?) is meaningless to a true Unionist: they will be sometimes Scots, mostly English, occasionally Welsh as the chips fall.
Mr F's original comment ignores the point that the SNP is a centrist party, and also misses the point completely. He is blaming the Scots for not supporting right-wing parties when the real problem is what on earth it was that the Tories did to the Scots to lose them so comprehensively. I think he is forgetting that the Scots might prefer to be ruled by their own right-wing party than by the London one - I suspect it is not just the voting system which gives the Tories more MSPs than MPs - and that in any case it is only a small but critical subset for which Tory rule in London has become a vote-changing issue. Mr L was pretty much on the ball on this point earlier this morning.0 -
I missed it too !!foxinsoxuk said:I missed your Jack W dozen yesterday. If your ARSE is capable of a repeat, I would be most grateful.
JackW said:Latest McARSE Scottish Referendum Projection Countdown
1 hour 1minute 1 second
Not out again until next Tuesday.
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Times change. In 1959, the Conservatives won 6 seats in Liverpool, and Labour had seats in rural East Anglia.TheScreamingEagles said:
Seems strange to think 23 years after Huntingdon returned Sir John Major with a 36,000 vote majority that the Tories could lose it.Sean_F said:
Huntingdon could be worth a look. You have a not very well-regarded Tory MP. A very popular UKIP county councillor, standing at Parliamentary level. UKIP came first in the Euros, and a close second in the locals in 2013/14, and are now the official opposition on the district council. And there's no risk that voting UKIP will let in either Labour or Lib Dems.TheScreamingEagles said:
Blame me for that.antifrank said:@Pulpstar That appears to have been a spasm based around Maria Miller's expenses troubles. I can't understand this price.
I stuck a portion of my winnings from Maria Miller's resignation (I tipped her at 14/1 as next out of the cabinet, have I ever mentioned that?)
My logic was given the huge amounts involved (90k in expenses) and that a lot of her constituents do the daily commute from Basingstoke to London, her standing again in 2015 may cause some antipathy and anger at her and the right UKIP candidate could do well, especially if Labour voters vote tactically to unseat her.
But I understand why you and Pulpstar have gone for the 1/6. I may join you both shortly.
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The research about Labour packing its selection lists with members of the political class was carried out by the Guardian, but is well hidden in the online edition; the Mail on the other hand makes a major story out of it. Next year Weird Ed will ask voters to pick Tulip and her chums to pack Parliament with a cohort of MPs more out of touch with ordinary people, more remote from everyday life and more ignorant of mainstream Britain than at any time since the passing of the 1832 Reform Act.
http://raedwald.blogspot.co.uk/2014/06/the-deceits-of-political-class.html0 -
@Financier
The original article was from the Guardian, which contains further info.
"The Conservatives have so far selected fewer candidates for 2015 than Labour, but of the 52 marginals where they would need a swing of less than 5% to win or have a retiring MP, about one in five candidates has a link to Westminster politics.
The majority have backgrounds in business and finance, with a number of lawyers, military officers and private sector PR consultants also standing for office. In contrast to Labour, which has selected more women than men, fewer than a third of the Conservative party's candidates in these seats are female."
It would appear given your posting name, an alternative career beckons?
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/jun/17/labour-candidates-marginal-seats-westminster-insiders0 -
I grew up in B&D (until Andrew Hunter joined the UUP, when we made sure we were represented by George Young instead). It can get randomly grumpy from time to time, the LDs are surprisingly strong at a local level.Pulpstar said:
I'm on Basingstoke for £100 off the back of this. 1-6 looks very generous. I note it stayed Blue in 1997.antifrank said:For the morning crowd, I put up a new post last night:
http://newstonoone.blogspot.co.uk/2014/06/the-conservative-battleground-june-2014.html
I've had a look at how prices have changed on the Conservatives in the seats where they're likely to be competitive.
I've probably time left to do about three more posts now before I disappear for three months. I shall probably be using them to look at the Labour price changes and then reviewing where the Lib Dems are placed following the recent bout of elections.
But it even had a UUP MP... That's how true blue it is
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As a(n OE) friend of mine corrected, when I mentioned that Fettes was the Scots Eton:TheScreamingEagles said:
He did and it is.ToryJim said:
He also went to Fettes which if I understand it is like a Scots Eton.TheScreamingEagles said:
Under the last Labour government, both their Prime Ministers were Scottish born.Morris_Dancer said:Good morning, everyone.
Mr. F, I quite agree, particularly after we had 13 years of Scottish chancellors and the PM's predecessor was Scottish.
It is often forgotten Tony Blair was born in Edinburgh
When James Bond was expelled from Eton he went to Fettes
No - Eton is the Scots Eton0 -
Blair did indeed attend the Scottish 'Eton' - An interesting comment ha made in his biography was that despite being born and educated north of the border, he was made to feel “alien” in Scotland, he also believed that if Gordon Brown had been PM in 2007, Labour could have won the Holyrood election.ToryJim said:
He also went to Fettes which if I understand it is like a Scots Eton.TheScreamingEagles said:
Under the last Labour government, both their Prime Ministers were Scottish born.Morris_Dancer said:Good morning, everyone.
Mr. F, I quite agree, particularly after we had 13 years of Scottish chancellors and the PM's predecessor was Scottish.
It is often forgotten Tony Blair was born in Edinburgh0 -
English father, Irish mother. I'm denying he was Scottish.TheScreamingEagles said:
It is often forgotten Tony Blair was born in Edinburgh
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And the Nats keep on telling me their nationalism is civic and not ethnic.asjohnstone said:
English father, Irish mother. I'm denying he was Scottish.TheScreamingEagles said:
It is often forgotten Tony Blair was born in Edinburgh
Blair is yours and you're keeping him.0 -
Just realised that both the last two European teams to win the World Cup have failed to get out of the group stage next time, doesn't bode well for the Spanish.0
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BREAKING WIND NEWS **** BREAKING WIND NEWS **** BREAKING WIND NEWS ****
The breaking news is that WIND is reporting to the JNN the contents of the latest McARSE Scottish Referendum Projection as follows :
"Should Scotland Be An Independent Country ?"
YES - 39% (NC) .. NO - 61% (NC)
Turnout Projection 81% (-0.5%)
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WIND - Whimsical Independent News Division
JNN - Jacobite News Network
McARSE - My Caledonian Anonymous Random Selection of Electors0 -
There is no right wing London party. There is a right-wing British party that is part of a Coalition government which sits in London. London itself is pretty left-wing. Unlike Scotland it returned a Green MEP at the last European elections, for example, while nationalist parties received substantially less support than they did in Scotland.Carnyx said:
Morning.Morris_Dancer said:Good morning, everyone.
Mr. F, I quite agree, particularly after we had 13 years of Scottish chancellors and the PM's predecessor was Scottish.
That these Labour gents were Scottish (and in what senses? birth, residence, holding a Scots passport, spirit of mind, Scottish or, to quote Mr Brown's little, I assume, joke, 'North British'?) is meaningless to a true Unionist: they will be sometimes Scots, mostly English, occasionally Welsh as the chips fall.
Mr F's original comment ignores the point that the SNP is a centrist party, and also misses the point completely. He is blaming the Scots for not supporting right-wing parties when the real problem is what on earth it was that the Tories did to the Scots to lose them so comprehensively. I think he is forgetting that the Scots might prefer to be ruled by their own right-wing party than by the London one - I suspect it is not just the voting system which gives the Tories more MSPs than MPs - and that in any case it is only a small but critical subset for which Tory rule in London has become a vote-changing issue. Mr L was pretty much on the ball on this point earlier this morning.
However, your central point is a fair one - rather than blaming Scots and the Labour party for their decline in Scotland the Tories would be better advised to ask themselves what they have done to make their brand so toxic in Scotland.
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I'm friends with an old Wykehymist and an Old Harrovian.TOPPING said:
As a(n OE) friend of mine corrected, when I mentioned that Fettes was the Scots Eton:TheScreamingEagles said:
He did and it is.ToryJim said:
He also went to Fettes which if I understand it is like a Scots Eton.TheScreamingEagles said:
Under the last Labour government, both their Prime Ministers were Scottish born.Morris_Dancer said:Good morning, everyone.
Mr. F, I quite agree, particularly after we had 13 years of Scottish chancellors and the PM's predecessor was Scottish.
It is often forgotten Tony Blair was born in Edinburgh
When James Bond was expelled from Eton he went to Fettes
No - Eton is the Scots Eton
Want to guess their views on Eton and Fettes?
Obviously as a Sheffield public schoolboy, I was the only one who was educated at a decent private school.
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@JackW - Turnout Projection 81%.
Seems very high to me - what are the chances of voters staying at home if the result is a foregone conclusion. - nice Arse btw. ; )0 -
Chelsea have an easy start to the new Premiership season .... away at Burnley ....
Titters ....0 -
I take those points, but my point still stands.SouthamObserver said:
There is no right wing London party. There is a right-wing British party that is part of a Coalition government which sits in London. London itself is pretty left-wing. Unlike Scotland it returned a Green MEP at the last European elections, for example, while nationalist parties received substantially less support than they did in Scotland.Carnyx said:
Morning.Morris_Dancer said:Good morning, everyone.
Mr. F, I quite agree, particularly after we had 13 years of Scottish chancellors and the PM's predecessor was Scottish.
That these Labour gents were Scottish (and in what senses? birth, residence, holding a Scots passport, spirit of mind, Scottish or, to quote Mr Brown's little, I assume, joke, 'North British'?) is meaningless to a true Unionist: they will be sometimes Scots, mostly English, occasionally Welsh as the chips fall.
Mr F's original comment ignores the point that the SNP is a centrist party, and also misses the point completely. He is blaming the Scots for not supporting right-wing parties when the real problem is what on earth it was that the Tories did to the Scots to lose them so comprehensively. I think he is forgetting that the Scots might prefer to be ruled by their own right-wing party than by the London one - I suspect it is not just the voting system which gives the Tories more MSPs than MPs - and that in any case it is only a small but critical subset for which Tory rule in London has become a vote-changing issue. Mr L was pretty much on the ball on this point earlier this morning.
However, your central point is a fair one - rather than blaming Scots and the Labour party for their decline in Scotland the Tories would be better advised to ask themselves what they have done to make their brand so toxic in Scotland.
I don't have much time for the reverse view, that it would be great if Scotland seceded because it would entrench right wing government in RUK. Profound constitutional changes should never be about fleeting party political advantage.
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None.SimonStClare said:@JackW - Turnout Projection 81%.
Seems very high to me - what are the chances of voters staying at home if the result is a foregone conclusion. - nice Arse btw. ; )
Both sides are extremely motivated. Indeed the betting turnout wagers available represent some of the only remaining value in the market - Almost 100% return over 3 months - marginally better than some of TSE's World Cup bets.
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I stand corrected, thank you. I should of course have said London-headquartered (which would, of course, neatly have encompassed the loss of the Scottish Cosnervative and Unionist Party's autonomy by merger with the London Tories in the 1960s, IIRC, as others have commented).SouthamObserver said:
There is no right wing London party. There is a right-wing British party that is part of a Coalition government which sits in London. London itself is pretty left-wing. Unlike Scotland it returned a Green MEP at the last European elections, for example, while nationalist parties received substantially less support than they did in Scotland.Carnyx said:
Morning.Morris_Dancer said:Good morning, everyone.
Mr. F, I quite agree, particularly after we had 13 years of Scottish chancellors and the PM's predecessor was Scottish.
That these Labour gents were Scottish (and in what senses? birth, residence, holding a Scots passport, spirit of mind, Scottish or, to quote Mr Brown's little, I assume, joke, 'North British'?) is meaningless to a true Unionist: they will be sometimes Scots, mostly English, occasionally Welsh as the chips fall.
Mr F's original comment ignores the point that the SNP is a centrist party, and also misses the point completely. He is blaming the Scots for not supporting right-wing parties when the real problem is what on earth it was that the Tories did to the Scots to lose them so comprehensively. I think he is forgetting that the Scots might prefer to be ruled by their own right-wing party than by the London one - I suspect it is not just the voting system which gives the Tories more MSPs than MPs - and that in any case it is only a small but critical subset for which Tory rule in London has become a vote-changing issue. Mr L was pretty much on the ball on this point earlier this morning.
However, your central point is a fair one - rather than blaming Scots and the Labour party for their decline in Scotland the Tories would be better advised to ask themselves what they have done to make their brand so toxic in Scotland.
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No, not really. What I am talking about is the former (for the most part) Lib Dems in the highlands, the borders and in Edinburgh. Polling in the borders has been limited and as trustworthy as most polling on this issue but seemed to show a very strong majority against.rcs1000 said:
Do you think the six remaining Scottish Liberal Democrat voters are going to be a big impediment to 'Yes'?DavidL said:The building blocks that I see are that the tories and most Lib Dems will vote no.
@Edin_Roz I agree with that. It is one of the reasons that No Thanks (such a better name) has been so personal on their attacks on Salmond. There is always a risk that this could get counter-productive but not, I think, with the key swing group. And Salmond has given them so much ammunition.
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The survey's a bit superficial. I'm counted as ";political class" because I'm a former MP, but I've spent most of my life in the private sector, 16 years in industrial management and with two successful private companies over the years. I agree that if I fancied being a Tory MP then my lack of City background would be a snag. Probably wouldn't be a good shot for a UKIP candidacy either. Oh well. :-)TOPPING said:
It's also quite interesting because if eg. Nick Palmer (white, middle class, male, intellectual, etc) wanted to be a PPC for the Cons he wouldn't have a cat's (or, if you are Jeanette Winterson, a rabbit's) chance in hell.Financier said:Labour not listening
"More than half of Labour's MP candidates in winnable seats for the general election have already worked in politics, new research has found.
The party has stuffed its hit list of potential new MPs with former special advisers, party workers and lobbyists - compared to just 17 per cent of Conservative candidates with political backgrounds, and 46 per cent of Liberal Democrats.
It will fuel concerns about the development of a 'political class' of people who have never worked in real world jobs, which the public repeatedly say in polls turns them off voting. "
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2660810/The-Labour-candidates-whove-never-real-job-Half-standing-winnable-seats-job-politics.html#ixzz34xlVzJYp
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The Tories are represented at all levels of Government in Scotland.SouthamObserver said:the Tories would be better advised to ask themselves what they have done to make their brand so toxic in Scotland.
The brand is not nearly as toxic as some people like to think.
Of course some posters claimed that George Osborne was a toxic brand. How is that working out?0 -
It seems reasonable enough to count retreads as part of the political class for the purpose of that survey. A better question, however, is what percentage of candidates have no experience of life outside politics. Two thirds of the main party leaders fall into that category and the other third is hardly brimming with experience of that kind.0
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Given the first law of timothy has been broken - is there hope for Clegg ?Scott_P said:SouthamObserver said:the Tories would be better advised to ask themselves what they have done to make their brand so toxic in Scotland.
Of course some posters claimed that George Osborne was a toxic brand. How is that working out?0 -
i bet Smithson does not make any money from his betting as it seems he is nearly always wrong0
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Used to be, but the catchment areas of all the public schools have shrunk dramatically. I was sent 300 miles to Winchester, but these days if you come from >30 miles away its probably because you come from Moscow or Beijing.TOPPING said:
As a(n OE) friend of mine corrected, when I mentioned that Fettes was the Scots Eton:TheScreamingEagles said:
He did and it is.ToryJim said:
He also went to Fettes which if I understand it is like a Scots Eton.TheScreamingEagles said:
Under the last Labour government, both their Prime Ministers were Scottish born.Morris_Dancer said:Good morning, everyone.
Mr. F, I quite agree, particularly after we had 13 years of Scottish chancellors and the PM's predecessor was Scottish.
It is often forgotten Tony Blair was born in Edinburgh
When James Bond was expelled from Eton he went to Fettes
No - Eton is the Scots Eton
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Agree - apparently Radley is now considered the premier English public school; you have to put your (son's) name down at birth so it's quite oligarch-resilient.Ishmael_X said:
Used to be, but the catchment areas of all the public schools have shrunk dramatically. I was sent 300 miles to Winchester, but these days if you come from >30 miles away its probably because you come from Moscow or Beijing.TOPPING said:
As a(n OE) friend of mine corrected, when I mentioned that Fettes was the Scots Eton:TheScreamingEagles said:
He did and it is.ToryJim said:
He also went to Fettes which if I understand it is like a Scots Eton.TheScreamingEagles said:
Under the last Labour government, both their Prime Ministers were Scottish born.Morris_Dancer said:Good morning, everyone.
Mr. F, I quite agree, particularly after we had 13 years of Scottish chancellors and the PM's predecessor was Scottish.
It is often forgotten Tony Blair was born in Edinburgh
When James Bond was expelled from Eton he went to Fettes
No - Eton is the Scots Eton0 -
Nick you are everything the Conservative Party is trying to distance itself from.NickPalmer said:
The survey's a bit superficial. I'm counted as ";political class" because I'm a former MP, but I've spent most of my life in the private sector, 16 years in industrial management and with two successful private companies over the years. I agree that if I fancied being a Tory MP then my lack of City background would be a snag. Probably wouldn't be a good shot for a UKIP candidacy either. Oh well. :-)TOPPING said:
It's also quite interesting because if eg. Nick Palmer (white, middle class, male, intellectual, etc) wanted to be a PPC for the Cons he wouldn't have a cat's (or, if you are Jeanette Winterson, a rabbit's) chance in hell.Financier said:Labour not listening
"More than half of Labour's MP candidates in winnable seats for the general election have already worked in politics, new research has found.
The party has stuffed its hit list of potential new MPs with former special advisers, party workers and lobbyists - compared to just 17 per cent of Conservative candidates with political backgrounds, and 46 per cent of Liberal Democrats.
It will fuel concerns about the development of a 'political class' of people who have never worked in real world jobs, which the public repeatedly say in polls turns them off voting. "
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2660810/The-Labour-candidates-whove-never-real-job-Half-standing-winnable-seats-job-politics.html#ixzz34xlVzJYp0 -
Viewing PB's distinguished former MP for Broxtowe as a "retread" seems somewhat harsh and inelegant.antifrank said:It seems reasonable enough to count retreads as part of the political class for the purpose of that survey. A better question, however, is what percentage of candidates have no experience of life outside politics. Two thirds of the main party leaders fall into that category and the other third is hardly brimming with experience of that kind.
I'd opt for a political "stew" - more flavoursome with age, second time around.
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No thank you - much more fun being outside the Westminster bubble and letting in some fresh air and realism when we meet up.Smarmeron said:@Financier
The original article was from the Guardian, which contains further info.
"The Conservatives have so far selected fewer candidates for 2015 than Labour, but of the 52 marginals where they would need a swing of less than 5% to win or have a retiring MP, about one in five candidates has a link to Westminster politics.
The majority have backgrounds in business and finance, with a number of lawyers, military officers and private sector PR consultants also standing for office. In contrast to Labour, which has selected more women than men, fewer than a third of the Conservative party's candidates in these seats are female."
It would appear given your posting name, an alternative career beckons?
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/jun/17/labour-candidates-marginal-seats-westminster-insiders0 -
Quite right.wumper said:i bet Smithson does not make any money from his betting as it seems he is nearly always wrong
You just need to adopt a contrarian pattern to his tips: so if he backs someone at 50/1 for the US presidency, you lay the same bet. Take as much as you can. Let us know how you get on.
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@IanDunt: Salmond's woman problem continues - just 31% planning to vote 'Yes', 56% planning to vote 'No' http://t.co/9Ae4TaZMU40
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If they want perpetual left wing government, they absolutely have to have the union, surely? The latter provides the throughput of other people's money that is essential to the former.Sean_F said:
It's sad that so many Scots can only tolerate the Union if there's perpetual left-wing government.DavidL said:I agree with OblitisSumMe. If the pollsters are right then no wins. None of them yet have yes within a margin of error.
I also agree with Mike, however. How much confidence can we have in any of the polling given the lack of a track record, no guidance as to weighting etc.? Weighting by previous voting is problematic.
Not all SNP voters, many of whom were just sick of Labour and wanted an alternative, are going to vote Yes. There is the odd tory who is going to vote Yes although they are the most homogeneous group so far as I can see. Weighting by social group really doesn't help when you have no comparator as to how that social group voted before.
The building blocks that I see are that the tories and most Lib Dems will vote no. The vast majority, although not all of SNP supporters will vote yes. In the middle is the very large Labour vote. How will that split?
If it goes majority no then no wins. At the moment that is the most likely but there are risk factors. One is the truly awful perception of Ed Miliband. The figures that Scott_P has linked to are really worth a look. 58% of Scots on the subsample think he doesn't have a single good quality and another 11% don't know. Large numbers of Labour voters in Scotland are completely uninspired by voting for or being led by the dork.
Another is the still strong hostility to the tories in Scotland. If they gain national leads Labour supporters unenamoured with Ed will give serious thought as to whether we would be better off without these English tory persons of doubtful heritage.
I do not see perceptions of Ed improving. The risk factor in the Indy referendum remains the second one. If the tories gain national leads by September this will be to close to call. If they don't I think No wins.0 -
Fiddlesticks.wumper said:i bet Smithson does not make any money from his betting as it seems he is nearly always wrong
It matters not how often you are "nearly always wrong" (and Mike is often correct) but the ratio of odds when you are correct.
One 50/1 winner pays for 49 losers.
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Blimey - the Tories do not want to recruit people who have been successful in the private sector. Looks like I made the right call.TOPPING said:
Nick you are everything the Conservative Party is trying to distance itself from.NickPalmer said:
The survey's a bit superficial. I'm counted as ";political class" because I'm a former MP, but I've spent most of my life in the private sector, 16 years in industrial management and with two successful private companies over the years. I agree that if I fancied being a Tory MP then my lack of City background would be a snag. Probably wouldn't be a good shot for a UKIP candidacy either. Oh well. :-)TOPPING said:
It's also quite interesting because if eg. Nick Palmer (white, middle class, male, intellectual, etc) wanted to be a PPC for the Cons he wouldn't have a cat's (or, if you are Jeanette Winterson, a rabbit's) chance in hell.Financier said:Labour not listening
"More than half of Labour's MP candidates in winnable seats for the general election have already worked in politics, new research has found.
The party has stuffed its hit list of potential new MPs with former special advisers, party workers and lobbyists - compared to just 17 per cent of Conservative candidates with political backgrounds, and 46 per cent of Liberal Democrats.
It will fuel concerns about the development of a 'political class' of people who have never worked in real world jobs, which the public repeatedly say in polls turns them off voting. "
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2660810/The-Labour-candidates-whove-never-real-job-Half-standing-winnable-seats-job-politics.html#ixzz34xlVzJYp
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"Business (sic) for Scotland" fisked:
http://chokkablog.blogspot.co.uk/2014/06/who-do-business-for-scotland-represent.html?m=1
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Another useful metric would be % of candidates who have a) been MPs previously and b) stood as a PPC.
Labour in Cambridge are bizarrely putting up the candidate who came a rank 3rd in 2010 - mostly due to his own weird antics.
For a marginal seat that seems "brave"..
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The Tories did make an exception for Edward Timpson, but Nick's "two successful private companies" to say nothing of his demographic, would rule him out of the detoxifying Tories.SouthamObserver said:
Blimey - the Tories do not want to recruit people who have been successful in the private sector. Looks like I made the right call.TOPPING said:
Nick you are everything the Conservative Party is trying to distance itself from.NickPalmer said:
The survey's a bit superficial. I'm counted as ";political class" because I'm a former MP, but I've spent most of my life in the private sector, 16 years in industrial management and with two successful private companies over the years. I agree that if I fancied being a Tory MP then my lack of City background would be a snag. Probably wouldn't be a good shot for a UKIP candidacy either. Oh well. :-)TOPPING said:
It's also quite interesting because if eg. Nick Palmer (white, middle class, male, intellectual, etc) wanted to be a PPC for the Cons he wouldn't have a cat's (or, if you are Jeanette Winterson, a rabbit's) chance in hell.Financier said:Labour not listening
"More than half of Labour's MP candidates in winnable seats for the general election have already worked in politics, new research has found.
The party has stuffed its hit list of potential new MPs with former special advisers, party workers and lobbyists - compared to just 17 per cent of Conservative candidates with political backgrounds, and 46 per cent of Liberal Democrats.
It will fuel concerns about the development of a 'political class' of people who have never worked in real world jobs, which the public repeatedly say in polls turns them off voting. "
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2660810/The-Labour-candidates-whove-never-real-job-Half-standing-winnable-seats-job-politics.html#ixzz34xlVzJYp
If you are a white middle class male you will struggle to become a Cons PPC.
Is that good or bad? Well you takes your pick....0 -
This was the front page story on the Metro today:
http://metro.co.uk/2014/06/17/revealed-britains-spies-are-watching-your-facebook-and-internet-use-right-now-4765686/
Spooks are using a legal loophole to spy on everyday Facebook updates and Twitter messages because they believe it will help them fight terrorism, it emerged.
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Mike sometimes gets it wrong, we all do. Especially with his strategy of long odds/outsiders. But he gets it right often enough to be profitable, very profitable. If you want to lay Mike's tips then best of luck to you.wumper said:I bet Smithson does not make any money from his betting as it seems he is nearly always wrong
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Bollocks MD, Little good it did Scotland having those useless twats running the usual London centric trough, Tories in disguise or half wits.Morris_Dancer said:Good morning, everyone.
Mr. F, I quite agree, particularly after we had 13 years of Scottish chancellors and the PM's predecessor was Scottish.0 -
Another ignorant question from me about the footer: am I right in supposing that it is possible both to qualify from the group stage without having won a game, and also to be eliminated from it without having lost one?ToryJim said:Just realised that both the last two European teams to win the World Cup have failed to get out of the group stage next time, doesn't bode well for the Spanish.
I am increasingly warming to my forecast of last week that England will get eliminated in the most disappointing way possible, i.e. they will lose their first two games and then win the last one, one that doesn't matter because they'll already have been eliminated.
The team will thereby go home feeling unjustifiably that they have somehow saved some face by not losing all three of their games. Satisfied with this nugatory level of achievement they'll repeat it next time and the next time and so on.
That or losing all three games seem the likeliest outcomes.
Presumably these England players look good at other times only because they have foreign players in their usual teams to help them look good?0 -
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Betting Post
Backed Massa at 9, each way, to be Winner Without Hamilton/Rosberg.
The Williams was mighty in Canada and Austria looks comparable to me (the circuit diagram suggests straight line speed will pave the way to victory). The relatively lacklustre result for Williams was due entirely to a slow pit stop for Massa coupled with the crash, and Bottas was nursing a slightly wounded car home.
As mentioned before, win or lose this won't count towards the 'official' count of my tips, which only includes those mentioned in my articles.0 -
Another whinging unionist , personal attacks on people he does not know. Imagine the horror that someone associated with BFS actually was involved in local politics. I bet there are none of the Better Together or their astroturfing groups who were ever Tories etc.CarlottaVance said:"Business (sic) for Scotland" fisked:
http://chokkablog.blogspot.co.uk/2014/06/who-do-business-for-scotland-represent.html?m=1
Desperate desperate stuff even by your standards, you are now bottom feeding a la Scottp. No more barrel to scrape.
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Scott, too thick to notice the big increase in latest polls. Keep on crawling on your belly.Scott_P said:@IanDunt: Salmond's woman problem continues - just 31% planning to vote 'Yes', 56% planning to vote 'No' http://t.co/9Ae4TaZMU4
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Morning MrG - Scotland got a Scottish Parliament off the back of Blair and a tram for Edinburgh ; )malcolmg said:
Bollocks MD, Little good it did Scotland having those useless twats running the usual London centric trough, Tories in disguise or half wits.Morris_Dancer said:Good morning, everyone.
Mr. F, I quite agree, particularly after we had 13 years of Scottish chancellors and the PM's predecessor was Scottish.
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Certainly reads like it came out of an ARSE, did you forget to take your pills.JackW said:BREAKING WIND NEWS **** BREAKING WIND NEWS **** BREAKING WIND NEWS ****
The breaking news is that WIND is reporting to the JNN the contents of the latest McARSE Scottish Referendum Projection as follows :
"Should Scotland Be An Independent Country ?"
YES - 39% (NC) .. NO - 61% (NC)
Turnout Projection 81% (-0.5%)
..............................................................................................
WIND - Whimsical Independent News Division
JNN - Jacobite News Network
McARSE - My Caledonian Anonymous Random Selection of Electors0 -
We never see race riots in Scotland either, Blair despite accident of where born is anything but Scottish.TheScreamingEagles said:
And the Nats keep on telling me their nationalism is civic and not ethnic.asjohnstone said:
English father, Irish mother. I'm denying he was Scottish.TheScreamingEagles said:
It is often forgotten Tony Blair was born in Edinburgh
Blair is yours and you're keeping him.0 -
Malcolm G never makes personal and insulting attacks on someone he has never met or knows0
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http://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/fund-reports/2014/jun/mirror-mirror
Interesting. The UK healthcare system ranks very highly on this - except I note "healthy lives" which is essentially an aggregate proxy for a few mortality measures.
Something doesn't quite fit there ^^;0 -
You have to feel sorry for the poor sods, trawling through the cat pictures and sickly posts about someone's brat doing a poo or somesuch.Socrates said:This was the front page story on the Metro today:
http://metro.co.uk/2014/06/17/revealed-britains-spies-are-watching-your-facebook-and-internet-use-right-now-4765686/
Spooks are using a legal loophole to spy on everyday Facebook updates and Twitter messages because they believe it will help them fight terrorism, it emerged.
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LOL, did someone write that for you, how thick can you be. 1 MP and only MSP's due to getting freebies from the list, deluded half wit.Scott_P said:
The Tories are represented at all levels of Government in Scotland.SouthamObserver said:the Tories would be better advised to ask themselves what they have done to make their brand so toxic in Scotland.
The brand is not nearly as toxic as some people like to think.
Of course some posters claimed that George Osborne was a toxic brand. How is that working out?0 -
Probably because Scotland is 96% White, compared with England which is 85.4% White.malcolmg said:
We never see race riots in Scotland either, Blair despite accident of where born is anything but Scottish.TheScreamingEagles said:
And the Nats keep on telling me their nationalism is civic and not ethnic.asjohnstone said:
English father, Irish mother. I'm denying he was Scottish.TheScreamingEagles said:
It is often forgotten Tony Blair was born in Edinburgh
Blair is yours and you're keeping him.0 -
Spot the inconsistency. All within a 7 minute period.malcolmg said:
Another whinging unionist , personal attacks on people he does not know.
Desperate desperate stuff even by your standards, you are now bottom feeding a la Scottp. No more barrel to scrape.malcolmg said:Scott, too thick to notice the big increase in latest polls. Keep on crawling on your belly.
malcolmg said:Certainly reads like it came out of an ARSE, did you forget to take your pills.
malcolmg said:LOL, did someone write that for you, how thick can you be. 1 MP and only MSP's due to getting freebies from the list, deluded half wit.
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Yes, I think it is. For the first half of that imagine the following:Bond_James_Bond said:
Another ignorant question from me about the footer: am I right in supposing that it is possible both to qualify from the group stage without having won a game, and also to be eliminated from it without having lost one?ToryJim said:Just realised that both the last two European teams to win the World Cup have failed to get out of the group stage next time, doesn't bode well for the Spanish.
Team 1 beats Team 2 and 3, and draws to Team 4 (you) - They qualify on 7 points.
Team 4 draws to all other teams, ending on 3 points.
Teams 2 and 3 both lost to Team 1, both draw with Team 4 and then draw against each other, ending on 2 points.
Thus Team 4 qualifies without a win.
The second scenario can happen a couple of ways, but the easiest is for there to be a group whipping boy who you fail to beat.
Team 1 beats Team 2 and 3, and draws to Team 4 (you) - qualifying on 7 points.
Team 4 draws to all other teams, ending on 3 points.
Team 2 beats Team 3 and draws with Team 4 - Team 2 qualifies with 4 points (Team 3 crashes out with 1).
New Zealand got knocked out in the 2010 World Cup with 3 draws (Group F). Chile qualified to the knockout rounds in 1998 despite no wins (Group
. 0 -
arf0
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It is also possible to not qualify with 2 wins. I can see this being a live outside possibility in the Spain/Netherlands/Chile/Australia group.Quincel said:
Yes, I think it is. For the first half of that imagine the following:Bond_James_Bond said:
Another ignorant question from me about the footer: am I right in supposing that it is possible both to qualify from the group stage without having won a game, and also to be eliminated from it without having lost one?ToryJim said:Just realised that both the last two European teams to win the World Cup have failed to get out of the group stage next time, doesn't bode well for the Spanish.
Team 1 beats Team 2 and 3, and draws to Team 4 (you) - They qualify on 7 points.
Team 4 draws to all other teams, ending on 3 points.
Teams 2 and 3 both lost to Team 1, both draw with Team 4 and then draw against each other, ending on 2 points.
Thus Team 4 qualifies without a win.
The second scenario can happen a couple of ways, but the easiest is for there to be a group whipping boy who you fail to beat.
Team 1 beats Team 2 and 3, and draws to Team 4 (you) - qualifying on 7 points.
Team 4 draws to all other teams, ending on 3 points.
Team 2 beats Team 3 and draws with Team 4 - Team 2 qualifies with 4 points (Team 3 crashes out with 1).
Spain beat Chile, Chile beat Netherlands.
Spain's thrashing could yet sink them even if they win tonight. A point will be huge for Chile.0 -
Is that because he knows everyone, perhaps via working for our spooks?richardDodd said:
Malcolm G never makes personal and insulting attacks on someone he has never met or knows
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Something you never do.....malcolmg said:
personal attacks on people he does not know.CarlottaVance said:"Business (sic) for Scotland" fisked:
http://chokkablog.blogspot.co.uk/2014/06/who-do-business-for-scotland-represent.html?m=1
Of course, if you'd read the article you'd have read:
I want to be very clear about this: I am not questioning the right of any of these individuals to have a view on the Independence Referendum or to speak out . I am merely seeking to answer the questions that the Business for Scotland MD seems so reluctant to address;
Roughly how many Scottish Employees are represented by their members?
Do they represent any businesses involved in Trade with rUK?
But we know what it is with Nats and opposing opinions - try to shout it down with personal abuse.....0 -
I got 33:1 on England getting no points in the group. Perhaps my Scottish ancestry is showing...Bond_James_Bond said:
Another ignorant question from me about the footer: am I right in supposing that it is possible both to qualify from the group stage without having won a game, and also to be eliminated from it without having lost one?ToryJim said:Just realised that both the last two European teams to win the World Cup have failed to get out of the group stage next time, doesn't bode well for the Spanish.
I am increasingly warming to my forecast of last week that England will get eliminated in the most disappointing way possible, i.e. they will lose their first two games and then win the last one, one that doesn't matter because they'll already have been eliminated.
The team will thereby go home feeling unjustifiably that they have somehow saved some face by not losing all three of their games. Satisfied with this nugatory level of achievement they'll repeat it next time and the next time and so on.
That or losing all three games seem the likeliest outcomes.
Presumably these England players look good at other times only because they have foreign players in their usual teams to help them look good?0 -
Do you think he wrote the SNP White Paper......it would explain a lot......Anorak said:Spot the inconsistency.
malcolmg said:Another whinging unionist , personal attacks on people he does not know.
Desperate desperate stuff even by your standards, you are now bottom feeding a la Scottp. No more barrel to scrape.malcolmg said:Scott, too thick to notice the big increase in latest polls. Keep on crawling on your belly.
malcolmg said:Certainly reads like it came out of an ARSE, did you forget to take your pills.
malcolmg said:LOL, did someone write that for you, how thick can you be. 1 MP and only MSP's due to getting freebies from the list, deluded half wit.
0
