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  • Totally off topic, but for those who love in depth sports coverage and analysis, The Athletic have an offer of a £1 a month for next 12 months. Total bargain.

    Thanks, not the first time I have heard it recommended so went to have a look but see £1 for 6 months, where is the 12 month deal? Also it has a shocking rating on trustpilot - has anyone successfully unsubscribed?
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,938
    edited September 2020
    As I mentioned yesterday, I don't think the government will benefit from a pereceived fight with "elite remainers" within or without parliament in the way it did last year. Starmer is doing a good job to keep out for now, but when the showdown finally comes, a very large number of voters are going to be surprised that Brexit is still an issue.
  • They need to do the whole of Tyneside to get ahead of it to be honest.
    Yes this seems a reasonable call. The NE position as a whole appears to have got significantly worse very quickly.
  • Scott_xP said:
    Jesus Christ. And we know he won't.

    It's going to be No Deal.

    Fucking mad.
  • Thank you all for your kind words. I’m in good spirits, just a bit bored.

    Get well soon.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,823
    Nigelb said:

    While I am in general agreement with you, it is not possible to argue that the EU have been entirely consistent, or in the slightest bit friendly in their negotiating.

    Brexit: UK likely to end up with Canadian-style deal, warns Barnier (2017)
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/oct/23/uk-likely-to-end-up-with-canadian-style-deal-warns-michel-barnier

    Michel Barnier: UK can't have Canada trade deal with EU (Feb 2020)
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-51549662
    Yes, that's definitely true, however it's still a fair negotiating tactic but one that inevitably ends in no deal as the UK would never agree to the LPF. I think what changed from 2017 to now is that the EU got used to the May/Robbisn method of negotiating from the UK which was to just bend over, so they tried it again with a much stronger government politically and expected the same reaction and now they are too entrenched to step back from the unreasonable demand of the LPF. If they had started with saying we want a baseline, but to set that baseline at today's levels and a non-binding review process every few years where both sides agree a common approach then it would have gone through. The EU are at fault, but that's not to say it's negotiating in bad faith, they are negotiating from a maximalist position, one they found worked with May and Robbins.
  • Pulpstar said:

    We're out the EU now - so that part is done. Right now we should be seeking a broad partnership and constructive relationship with them rather than the nonsense sabre rattling Cummings and Johnson are participating in to try and create another "us" vs "them" narrative.
    Gove, Sunak and Raab don't want this. But, none of them will break ranks and resign to stop it.

    It should tell us a lot about how "wise" it is.
  • Jesus Christ. And we know he won't.

    It's going to be No Deal.

    Fucking mad.
    Exactly as Dom has game theorised it all.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    HYUFD said:

    The left and anti Brexiteers were trashing Boris for our poor relative performance on Covid deaths recently so in a sense it is
    Where the hell do anti brexiters come into the argument, I think you should reboot and view life as of September 2020 not 2016
  • As I mentioned yesterday, I don't think the government will benefit from a pereceived fight with "elite remainers" within or without parliament in the way it did last year. Starmer is doing a good job to keep out for now, but when the showdown finally comes, a very large number of voters are going to be surprised that Brexit is still an issue.

    They are going to be even more surprised when the shelves are empty in January, just in the worst of winter.

  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 38,132
    Penny for the thoughts of Tissue Price

    Try really hard to become an MP, so you can break the law and crash out with no deal...
  • Thanks, not the first time I have heard it recommended so went to have a look but see £1 for 6 months, where is the 12 month deal? Also it has a shocking rating on trustpilot - has anyone successfully unsubscribed?
    Not to sound like their PR department...

    You can just unsubscribe by clicking a button on the website. What issues are people having?

    As for offer,

    https://theathletic.com/checkout2/intro1/introperiod12?source=fbads&ad_id=23845471087640092&fbclid=IwAR0sxgsFqgKhHUHh9hvndtUcrilABLVK7lyLOXrsJ8lMxyE9el-Z5TyhgW4
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,176
    HYUFD said:
    I think the correct response, as the kids do it, is:

    🔥🔥🔥
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 2,108
    alex_ said:

    Given that COVID is largely harmless to the vast majority of the population of working age I’m not sure why the purpose of vaccination need be “herd immunity”? If the most at risk are vaccinated and the rest aren’t then the virus basically ceases to become an exceptional public health problem. So why would special measures be needed to combat it. If there is no material risk of the NHS becoming overwhelmed why should taking the risk of contracting the virus not become a matter of personal choice?

    It seems to me that we’re in danger of thinking that the actual health consequences of the virus are an irrelevance. If vaccine for the vulnerable backed up by improved treatment results in acceptable health outcomes when set against other public health issues, why does it need to go any further? In the case of flu we only routinely vaccinate the vulnerable (and it’s still a matter of personal choice). Why should this be any different? Yes unfortunately there will be a relatively small number of people who can’t have the vaccination, and are vulnerable - but again that is not a unique situation with vaccines.
    Yes, lets ignore the 10% with longer term effects

    From PHE
    Around 10% of mild coronavirus (COVID-19) cases who were not admitted to hospital have reported symptoms lasting more than 4 weeks. A number of hospitalised cases reported continuing symptoms for 8 or more weeks following discharge.

    Persistent health problems reported following acute COVID-19 disease include:

    respiratory symptoms and conditions such as chronic cough, shortness of breath, lung inflammation and fibrosis, and pulmonary vascular disease
    cardiovascular symptoms and disease such as chest tightness, acute myocarditis and heart failure
    protracted loss or change of smell and taste
    mental health problems including depression, anxiety and cognitive difficulties
    inflammatory disorders such as myalgia, multisystem inflammatory syndrome, Guillain-Barre syndrome, or neuralgic amyotrophy
    gastrointestinal disturbance with diarrhoea
    continuing headaches
    fatigue, weakness and sleeplessness
    liver and kidney dysfunction
    clotting disorders and thrombosis
    lymphadenopathy
    skin rashes
  • Mr. Royale, Boris Johnson's dangerous levels of stupidity and incompetence should be cause for the 1922 Committee to take action.

    Actively seeking to break the law contrary to a treaty that the selfsame Government signed is alarming. If the treaty's no good then don't bloody sign it.

    A failure to negotiate is leading to a childish attempt to brute force matters, leaving an agreement in tatters as new ones (many) are sought, harming the UK's reputation whilst also harming the economy.

    He remains better than Corbyn, but the gulf narrows.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,938
    edited September 2020
    Personally I still kept some of my no-deal supplies from last year - 'amy's kitchen' organic tinned food, for the London liberal elite conspiracy - aside and in reserve. I wonder if I might need them after all.

    I do recommend Amy's Kitchen in general, by the way - some of the only good-tasting tinned food I've ever had.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,234
    edited September 2020
    If it goes to a vote and Labour abstain it'll be interesting to see if there's a bigger Labour rebellion to vote against or Tory rebellion of abstention. I can't possibly see why any Tories would vote against or Labour MPs vote for the bill.
    The SNP and Lib Dems will ensure a division.
  • GrandioseGrandiose Posts: 2,323

    I think the correct response, as the kids do it, is:

    🔥🔥🔥
    I'm not sure it is, though, is it?

    The Gov't manufactures something, then drops it, is only back to where they would have been.

    Calling off negotiations because of the display of bad faith would have been 🔥🔥🔥
  • Nigelb said:

    Perhaps HYUFD can have Woolton pie along with his broth ?
    Let him eat cake!!!!!

    Oops! Maybe too continental :neutral:
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,733
    MaxPB said:

    Yes, that's definitely true, however it's still a fair negotiating tactic but one that inevitably ends in no deal as the UK would never agree to the LPF. I think what changed from 2017 to now is that the EU got used to the May/Robbisn method of negotiating from the UK which was to just bend over, so they tried it again with a much stronger government politically and expected the same reaction and now they are too entrenched to step back from the unreasonable demand of the LPF. If they had started with saying we want a baseline, but to set that baseline at today's levels and a non-binding review process every few years where both sides agree a common approach then it would have gone through. The EU are at fault, but that's not to say it's negotiating in bad faith, they are negotiating from a maximalist position, one they found worked with May and Robbins.
    I think that's a reasonable way of putting it.
    And I agree that what we're doing now is just mad.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,823
    Pulpstar said:

    If it goes to a vote and Labour abstain it'll be interesting to see if there's a bigger Labour rebellion to vote against or Tory rebellion of abstention. I can't possibly see why any Tories would vote against or Labour MPs vote for the bill.
    The SNP and Lib Dems will ensure a division.

    I get the feeling loads of Tories will vote against, it ruins the party's reputation for rule of law and the UK's reputation for honouring a word once given.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,705

    Jesus Christ. And we know he won't.

    It's going to be No Deal.

    Fucking mad.
    All is good don't worry. We will get a deal.

    But Boris has certainly got his fight which he had wanted.
  • We are led by a sociopath who only listens to a psychopath.
  • fox327fox327 Posts: 373
    There is a report in the Daily Telegraph about China’s CanSino Biologics COVID vaccine, which seems to be doing really well:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/chinese-vaccine-tested-safely-hundreds-thousands-volunteers/

    Apparently, hundreds of thousands of people have been given this vaccine without major ill-effects or getting infected with the virus. It seems a clear possibility that this vaccine will be approved. If so, and if we have no other vaccine, will the UK government negotiate to buy it, considering that the alternative could be continuing with years of wearing masks and working from home?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,359
    fox327 said:

    There is a report in the Daily Telegraph about China’s CanSino Biologics COVID vaccine, which seems to be doing really well:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/chinese-vaccine-tested-safely-hundreds-thousands-volunteers/

    Apparently, hundreds of thousands of people have been given this vaccine without major ill-effects or getting infected with the virus. It seems a clear possibility that this vaccine will be approved. If so, and if we have no other vaccine, will the UK government negotiate to buy it, considering that the alternative could be continuing with years of wearing masks and working from home?

    Based on claims from the state-owned media...
  • We are led by a sociopath who only listens to a psychopath.

    Interesting distinction.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,795
    Andy_JS said:
    Won't be popular reading with many on here!
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,234
    Nigelb said:
    I'd hazard a guess that Twitter is unrepresentative about what the average American thinks of their police.
  • Perhaps, although the EU and the usual suspects from the anti-brexit lobby will more than likely pop up again to take the government to court.
    Why bother? Brexit is done. There is no anti-Brexit lobby.

    All that is left is the Popcorn Lobby where we sit here and watch because there is f--- all we can do to change anything.

    Johnson's power grab is altogether different as is his fantasy "Moonshot".
  • Howard, Gale, May, Major, Garnier - the voices are piling up.
    I am not an MP but I would vote against and hope it is defeated, Boris resigns taking Cummings with him, and we negotiate a sensible deal

    Time to go Boris
  • TOPPING said:

    All is good don't worry. We will get a deal.

    But Boris has certainly got his fight which he had wanted.
    If this is extremely well choreographed Punch & Judy to help close & seal a deal that was already there anyway then f*ck me it's convincing.

    It's got everyone fooled.
  • Pulpstar said:

    If it goes to a vote and Labour abstain it'll be interesting to see if there's a bigger Labour rebellion to vote against or Tory rebellion of abstention. I can't possibly see why any Tories would vote against or Labour MPs vote for the bill.
    The SNP and Lib Dems will ensure a division.

    If this is exactly what Cummings wanted last year then it's a wonder he bothered to vote through the WA after GE2019.

    They could have just timed out the clock to 31st January.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,108

    I am not an MP but I would vote against and hope it is defeated, Boris resigns taking Cummings with him, and we negotiate a sensible deal

    Time to go Boris
    If only there were a ‘SeanT award’ we could give you.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,180
    Scott_xP said:
    I respectfully disagree. There is no question that the UK government can do this and can determine what the law is within the UK including Northern Ireland.

    Whether they should do this is an entirely different matter but that is above the paygrade of the AG.

    I will be interested to see what court the EU try to bring their case in. I think that they will find that we no longer accept the jurisdiction of the CJEU.
  • Mr. Royale, Boris Johnson's dangerous levels of stupidity and incompetence should be cause for the 1922 Committee to take action.

    Actively seeking to break the law contrary to a treaty that the selfsame Government signed is alarming. If the treaty's no good then don't bloody sign it.

    A failure to negotiate is leading to a childish attempt to brute force matters, leaving an agreement in tatters as new ones (many) are sought, harming the UK's reputation whilst also harming the economy.

    He remains better than Corbyn, but the gulf narrows.

    I'm texting all the Tory MPs I know spitting teeth.

    They are mainly telling me to calm down.
  • Great news that Dom has a plan for creating a trillion dollar tech company. But why is he wasting his time in the Cabinet Office rather than getting the venture capital and hiring the geeks?
  • MangoMango Posts: 1,031



    I imagine it would just be a bill that empowers the First Lord of the Treasury, or whatever, to set the date of the next election to any time but no later than 5 years after the last one.

    And there it is. The good old British constitution. Why shouldn't we let the elected dictator pick the date that suits them best? Gives them time to gerrymander constituencies and pack the Lords.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    The Supreme Court's judgement does seem clear. Parliament may pass laws on domestic matters that infringe on treaty obligations. Northern Ireland is part of the domestic UK.

  • sarissasarissa Posts: 2,108
    Pulpstar said:

    “Extremism in Defense of Liberty is No Vice” - President Goldwater
    immediately followed by "Moderation in pursuit of justice is no virtue"

    Selectively quoting half a comment and using it to bolster an extreme interpretation - you are Dominic Cummings and I claim my £10
  • If this is exactly what Cummings wanted last year then it's a wonder he bothered to vote through the WA after GE2019.

    They could have just timed out the clock to 31st January.
    Maybe he never bothered to read the WA either?

    Or maybe it is part of his masterplan of Creative Destruction? No doubt Dom has wargamed this....
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    In order to stop illegal immigration Australia abrogated an entire convention. The 1951 convention on the treatment of refugees.

    They seem to be doing OK.
  • MaxPB said:

    I get the feeling loads of Tories will vote against, it ruins the party's reputation for rule of law and the UK's reputation for honouring a word once given.
    I know Theresa May and Bob Neill have said disobliging things, but I think only Roger Gale has said he'll vote against.

    I suppose most MPs are waiting to see whether there's a u-turn over the weekend before committing.
  • DavidL said:

    I respectfully disagree. There is no question that the UK government can do this and can determine what the law is within the UK including Northern Ireland.

    Whether they should do this is an entirely different matter but that is above the paygrade of the AG.

    I will be interested to see what court the EU try to bring their case in. I think that they will find that we no longer accept the jurisdiction of the CJEU.
    Precisely. This is the grounds of international diplomacy now.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,263
    Pulpstar said:

    If you have a positive test, probably best to have another couple of tests. If both of those show up negative then the first was likely a false positive ? With a true positive that'd be unlikely.
    Not entirely.

    It depends on whether false positives are entirely random. If a false positive was generated by another virus, then the repeats by the same test would most likely produce the same false positive.

    Similarly, people can test positive by shedding antigen for some months, indeed there is a poster here who has a family member that tested positive for months.

    What Moonshot supposedly aims for is screening of an assymptomatic population.

    A screening test needs to have a high pick up rate in order identify those needing a more sensitive diagnostic test. For example breast mammography when used for screening is then followed up by a more specific test, such as biopsy. 90% of the referrals turn out benign. False negatives result in missed tumours.

    When done on a vast scale the issues of false positives are significant.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    The way the EU treats a country it partly depends on for its own security and protection has always seemed nuts to me, but there we are.
  • The Oscars have just killed themselves. Best Picture to be Woke Picture from 2024:

    "To be eligible for the 2024 best picture category, films released the previous year will be assessed on four diversity standards.

    The first, Standard A, covers on-screen representation. Films must either have at least one lead or significant supporting actors from an ethnic minority; ensure at least 30 per cent of the secondary cast are female, LGBTQ+, disabled or racially diverse, or feature a storyline centred on underrepresented groups.

    Standard B, looking at the “creative leadership and project team”, is focused on behind-the-camera roles, including directors, editors and hairstylists, asking they be made up of diverse workers. It requires that at least 30 per cent of the crew be from underrepresented groups.

    Standard C is titled “industry access and opportunities” and is concerned with improving diversity among apprentices and interns.

    Standard D, titled “audience development”, requires the studio or film company to have “multiple in-house senior executives” from underrepresented groups on their marketing, publicity or distribution teams."

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/films-must-be-diverse-to-win-best-picture-at-oscars-6bgtjwqs3
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,062

    Mr. Royale, Boris Johnson's dangerous levels of stupidity and incompetence should be cause for the 1922 Committee to take action.

    Actively seeking to break the law contrary to a treaty that the selfsame Government signed is alarming. If the treaty's no good then don't bloody sign it.

    A failure to negotiate is leading to a childish attempt to brute force matters, leaving an agreement in tatters as new ones (many) are sought, harming the UK's reputation whilst also harming the economy.

    He remains better than Corbyn, but the gulf narrows.

    The Tories are still ahead in the polls, albeit narrowly, as long as that stays the case no matter what Boris does he is safe.

    If however Labour take a clear poll lead then the knives will be out amongst Tory backbenchers for Boris and Sunak will likely take over as PM
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,234
    edited September 2020
    sarissa said:

    immediately followed by "Moderation in pursuit of justice is no virtue"

    Selectively quoting half a comment and using it to bolster an extreme interpretation - you are Dominic Cummings and I claim my £10
    You may have missed I attributed the quote to president Goldwater, who was in fact never president and was completely tonked by LBJ.
    I'm saying this line won't work from Trump.
  • In order to stop illegal immigration Australia abrogated an entire convention. The 1951 convention on the treatment of refugees.

    They seem to be doing OK.

    If the French don't stop the deadly Channel crossings and the UK decided to copy Australia's precedence in dealing with the problem, then I wonder who would support that and who would oppose that?

    I imagine much of the outrage would be similar to the response to this.
  • IanB2 said:

    If only there were a ‘SeanT award’ we could give you.
    I am never going to accept that the conservative party is willing to break an International treaty

    It goes against everything I have ever stood for in business and my private life and has had an enormous negative impact on my attitude to Boris

    I want him gone but I do want Brexit and remain a conservative party member
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,076

    That's a very long, angry, intemperate rant to say: "I don't have the numbers you are asking for."

    Here's a risk segmentation strategy by a very senior medical professional, Dr David Katz. You should give it a read, and consider it.

    https://davidkatzmd.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/ravirs.katz_.3-22-20.pdf
    First of all this proposal still says low risk people should practice "Routine social distancing; personal sanitation", which is the policy the UK has had in July and August, but you have often implied is too strict.

    The proposal is only one slide and does not realistically address many practical problems of segregation. How exactly does the high risk group "shelter in place". How does a low risk person live with someone with "Chronic lung disease, any age" who is here categorised as high risk? That chronic lung disease might be Asthma or COPD which covers a lot of people. It is likely that this "shelter in place" will need to continue until there is a vaccine so probably another 6 months.

    By applying social distancing restrictions on everyone the low-risk children and partners of high-risk people are living in an environment where very few people are carrying the virus, and so dramatically reducing the chances that the high risk are exposed to the virus.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,738
    Miller answers the ability for Parliament to determine it's own laws. It's just a shame that this issue isn't about UK law but rather International law..
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556

    In order to stop illegal immigration Australia abrogated an entire convention. The 1951 convention on the treatment of refugees.

    They seem to be doing OK.

    No, that can't be right - shurely no one has ever trusted Australia again, or traded with them, or invested in their country, or signed a deal with them, or gone on holiday there, or watched their awful soaps since they Broke. The. Law.

    That's what people tell me, anyway.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    I know Theresa May and Bob Neill have said disobliging things, but I think only Roger Gale has said he'll vote against.

    I suppose most MPs are waiting to see whether there's a u-turn over the weekend before committing.
    Guido Fawkes is claiming labour may not even vote against. If that's the case this is going through.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,359

    Precisely. This is the grounds of international diplomacy now.
    Parliament is sovereign? Who'd a thunk it?
  • eek said:

    Miller answers the ability for Parliament to determine it's own laws. It's just a shame that this issue isn't about UK law but rather International law..
    Northern Ireland is domestic, it isn't international.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,176

    If the French don't stop the deadly Channel crossings and the UK decided to copy Australia's precedence in dealing with the problem, then I wonder who would support that and who would oppose that?

    I imagine much of the outrage would be similar to the response to this.
    There’s no international water between the UK and France so the Australian model cannot apply as far as I can recall.

    Also Australia pays Fiji or someone to take the refugees don’t they? Who are we going to pay?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,234

    The Oscars have just killed themselves. Best Picture to be Woke Picture from 2024:

    "To be eligible for the 2024 best picture category, films released the previous year will be assessed on four diversity standards.

    The first, Standard A, covers on-screen representation. Films must either have at least one lead or significant supporting actors from an ethnic minority; ensure at least 30 per cent of the secondary cast are female, LGBTQ+, disabled or racially diverse, or feature a storyline centred on underrepresented groups.

    Standard B, looking at the “creative leadership and project team”, is focused on behind-the-camera roles, including directors, editors and hairstylists, asking they be made up of diverse workers. It requires that at least 30 per cent of the crew be from underrepresented groups.

    Standard C is titled “industry access and opportunities” and is concerned with improving diversity among apprentices and interns.

    Standard D, titled “audience development”, requires the studio or film company to have “multiple in-house senior executives” from underrepresented groups on their marketing, publicity or distribution teams."

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/films-must-be-diverse-to-win-best-picture-at-oscars-6bgtjwqs3

    Can the left just hold up on the whole culture war thing till November 5th ?

    Sincerely, Biden backers.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,359

    The Oscars have just killed themselves. Best Picture to be Woke Picture from 2024:

    "To be eligible for the 2024 best picture category, films released the previous year will be assessed on four diversity standards.

    The first, Standard A, covers on-screen representation. Films must either have at least one lead or significant supporting actors from an ethnic minority; ensure at least 30 per cent of the secondary cast are female, LGBTQ+, disabled or racially diverse, or feature a storyline centred on underrepresented groups.

    Standard B, looking at the “creative leadership and project team”, is focused on behind-the-camera roles, including directors, editors and hairstylists, asking they be made up of diverse workers. It requires that at least 30 per cent of the crew be from underrepresented groups.

    Standard C is titled “industry access and opportunities” and is concerned with improving diversity among apprentices and interns.

    Standard D, titled “audience development”, requires the studio or film company to have “multiple in-house senior executives” from underrepresented groups on their marketing, publicity or distribution teams."

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/films-must-be-diverse-to-win-best-picture-at-oscars-6bgtjwqs3

    So how good the film is doesn't actually matter?
  • Newcastle Amber? I used to enjoy a bottle or two back when it was available.
  • Pulpstar said:

    Can the left just hold up on the whole culture war thing till November 5th ?

    Sincerely, Biden backers.
    Are we burning a guy of a straight WASP man on that night?
  • eekeek Posts: 29,738
    Scott_xP said:
    Not really - if we pull the trick planned we can't be trusted which means we can't be trusted for anything.

    And the consequences of that will be far further reaching then Boris or so think and expect.
  • 2,919 more cases.
  • fox327 said:

    There is a report in the Daily Telegraph about China’s CanSino Biologics COVID vaccine, which seems to be doing really well:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/chinese-vaccine-tested-safely-hundreds-thousands-volunteers/

    Apparently, hundreds of thousands of people have been given this vaccine without major ill-effects or getting infected with the virus. It seems a clear possibility that this vaccine will be approved. If so, and if we have no other vaccine, will the UK government negotiate to buy it, considering that the alternative could be continuing with years of wearing masks and working from home?

    Must be an incredible vaccine...I mean afaik every vaccine ever made has a small percentage that it doesn't work on and always a few cases of ill effects.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,234
    The Gov't needs to come to it's senses and pull this bill, not up to anyone else.
  • Guido Fawkes is claiming labour may not even vote against. If that's the case this is going through.
    Wow. Sir Keir is engineering the destruction of Bors's own EU deal and there's absolutely nothing Boris can say.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,359

    Must be an incredible vaccine...I mean afaik every vaccine ever made has a small percentage that it doesn't work on and always a few cases of ill effects.
    Read who the quote is attributed to.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,738

    Northern Ireland is domestic, it isn't international.
    Has the Republic evaporated? because any change to where a border is impacts the whole island not just a small part of it.
  • Quite funny. I'm starting to see a few people in my industry starting to drop "machine learning" and "predictive algorithms" into their reports.

    They know the right tummies need tickling.
  • RobD said:

    So how good the film is doesn't actually matter?
    No change there.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,234
    I'm starting to wonder if Corb...
  • No change there.
    Just out of interest, has anybody seen or heard from old Rogeramus?
  • There’s no international water between the UK and France so the Australian model cannot apply as far as I can recall.

    Also Australia pays Fiji or someone to take the refugees don’t they? Who are we going to pay?
    Any country that wants money. 💰

    My proposal would be we speak to Turkey. We give Turkey a hefty chunk of "development" money from our Aid budget and do a refugee exchange with them. Any illegal migrant who makes it across gets deported immediately back to Turkey and we take a legitimate refugee from a Turkish refugee camp.
  • RobD said:

    So how good the film is doesn't actually matter?
    There used to be a (dark) joke around that having the Holocaust as part/whole of the subject matter guaranteed you an Oscar.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    Pulpstar said:

    The Gov't needs to come to it's senses and pull this bill, not up to anyone else.

    Publicly backing down to the EU now seals this government's fate. And the conservative party's fate. They know that.
  • Quite funny. I'm starting to see a few people in my industry starting to drop "machine learning" and "predictive algorithms" into their reports.

    They know the right tummies need tickling.

    As I put in a report recently, 'Machine learning is like teenage sex. Everyone talks about it, nobody really knows how to do it, everyone thinks everyone else is doing it, so everyone claims they are doing it.'
  • If this is exactly what Cummings wanted last year then it's a wonder he bothered to vote through the WA after GE2019.

    They could have just timed out the clock to 31st January.
    So, why not do that?

    Presumably because the political calculation is that the government would rather someone else takes the blame for whatever clustershambles is incoming. Either the enemy within (aka Remoaners) or without (aka Brussels) or both.

    But what do No 10 really want? A No Deal which is someone else's fault, or an extension which is someone else's fault? (The crucial bit is the someone else's fault bit.) Because there is no sign that anyone in the UK has the capacity to prepare for an actual No Deal, and Christmas is 3 1/2 months away.

    A not-our-fault extension (sorry, Interim Pay-as-you-go no strings trade deal for a bargain £300 million a week), on the other hand, keeps the wheels turning and the psychodrama going, and the government is largely held together by the psychodrama.

    Given that even Michael Howard is against this, the trade bill is surely and predictably going nowhere. But what if everyone tuts, but nobody external to the government forces them to ditch it? Do they have to climb down themselves? What happens then? Alternatively, what happens if the government is lumbered with a law it didn't really want, but hoped they would have snatched from them?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,062
    edited September 2020
    Pulpstar said:

    Can the left just hold up on the whole culture war thing till November 5th ?

    Sincerely, Biden backers.
    Trump has just got an early Christmas present, another culture war, straight from the academy, coming to Trump attack ads on your TV screen in Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania, North Carolina and Florida soon along with photos of all those Hollywood donors backing Biden
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,733
    Pulpstar said:

    I'd hazard a guess that Twitter is unrepresentative about what the average American thinks of their police.
    Not sure that 'average' holds much meaning in that context.
  • Pulpstar said:

    I'm starting to wonder if Corb...

    Right now, I'd prefer Starmer. And I'm a right-wing Tory.

    The Government should be in no doubt as to how quickly its whole world will collapse when (and it is when, not if) this goes wrong.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,176

    Any country that wants money. 💰

    My proposal would be we speak to Turkey. We give Turkey a hefty chunk of "development" money from our Aid budget and do a refugee exchange with them. Any illegal migrant who makes it across gets deported immediately back to Turkey and we take a legitimate refugee from a Turkish refugee camp.
    🤷‍♂️ I have no idea if that breaches any kind of treaty.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,076
    edited September 2020
    Foxy said:

    Not entirely.

    It depends on whether false positives are entirely random. If a false positive was generated by another virus, then the repeats by the same test would most likely produce the same false positive.

    Similarly, people can test positive by shedding antigen for some months, indeed there is a poster here who has a family member that tested positive for months.

    What Moonshot supposedly aims for is screening of an assymptomatic population.

    A screening test needs to have a high pick up rate in order identify those needing a more sensitive diagnostic test. For example breast mammography when used for screening is then followed up by a more specific test, such as biopsy. 90% of the referrals turn out benign. False negatives result in missed tumours.

    When done on a vast scale the issues of false positives are significant.
    Even if the specificity is good, you are still going to get a high number of false positives in screening programmes. The vast majority of people screened are negative, so the majority of positives will be false positives. I could bore everyone with the probability calculations, they are not difficult, but I will spare you.
  • eek said:

    Has the Republic evaporated? because any change to where a border is impacts the whole island not just a small part of it.
    NI is legally in the UK unless or until it's populace votes otherwise. Where the border is, is clearly defined.

    How well the Republic wants to enforce their side of the border is of course for negotiations. How we enforce our side is up to us.
  • RobD said:

    So how good the film is doesn't actually matter?

    Did it ever? A bit like the Booker Prize...
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,234
    edited September 2020
    Nigelb said:

    Not sure that 'average' holds much meaning in that context.
    Actually looks like I'm wrong

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jul/08/americans-racism-police-brutality-problems-poll

    Looks like the needed reform that will only come with a Biden presidency can preserve order in the USA :neutral:
  • So, why not do that?

    Presumably because the political calculation is that the government would rather someone else takes the blame for whatever clustershambles is incoming. Either the enemy within (aka Remoaners) or without (aka Brussels) or both.

    But what do No 10 really want? A No Deal which is someone else's fault, or an extension which is someone else's fault? (The crucial bit is the someone else's fault bit.) Because there is no sign that anyone in the UK has the capacity to prepare for an actual No Deal, and Christmas is 3 1/2 months away.

    A not-our-fault extension (sorry, Interim Pay-as-you-go no strings trade deal for a bargain £300 million a week), on the other hand, keeps the wheels turning and the psychodrama going, and the government is largely held together by the psychodrama.

    Given that even Michael Howard is against this, the trade bill is surely and predictably going nowhere. But what if everyone tuts, but nobody external to the government forces them to ditch it? Do they have to climb down themselves? What happens then? Alternatively, what happens if the government is lumbered with a law it didn't really want, but hoped they would have snatched from them?
    Howard isn't good enough.

    It needs one or two senior people in the ERG to throw their hands up, and show some leadership *the other way*.

    No, me neither.
This discussion has been closed.