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Interesting that 16% of Labour voters think the songs should not be performed at all but just 1% of Tory voters think they should not be played.
Over 80% of Tories and Leavers think the songs should be played with lyrics, under 50% of Labour and Remain voters think they should be played with lyrics and only half of LDs think they should be played with lyrics.
Clearly the culture wars have now crossed the Atlantic0 -
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The median age of a BBC viewer is now somewhere in excess of 60, and it's mucking about with traditional favourites at the same time as it's reissuing poll tax demands to most of the over-75s. It may not end very well.3
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Boris is a smart politician. Choose your battles carefully.TheScreamingEagles said:1 -
It's sad that everyone is going fall for this bullshit, the BBC is a disgrace and they've given Boris the perfect bullshit fluff story to distract from his rubbish leadership and awful decision making.3
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Isn't this time of year what is traditionally called Silly Season?
Due to the seriousness of COVID, the A-Levels etc there hasn't been much of a Silly Season this year - its actually refreshing not to have serious news stories to report and the media going with traditionally Silly stuff instead.
We can't do serious 365 days a year.0 -
RULE SHITANNIA?MaxPB said:It's sad that everyone is going fall for this bullshit, the BBC is a disgrace and they've given Boris the perfect bullshit fluff story to distract from his rubbish leadership and awful decision making.
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The mask may have slipped with those Pelosi comments.
I wonder if the ''enemies of the state'' include those Lincoln project republicans so enthusiastic for a Biden win.
Or 'useful idiots' as they are otherwise known.
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No Brian, its just that what matters to you and the mainstream media is not necessarily what matters to the average red wall brexiteer.tlg86 said:
Boris is a smart politician. Choose your battles carefully.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
The more that happens, the greater the seepage of economic activity and political power out of London and into the provinces becomes.HYUFD said:
This is also a huge opportunity for the current Government if they're willing to fully embrace it. Parliament may not want to leave Westminster, but there's no reason why the cabinet couldn't meet elsewhere more often. Indeed, if Boris Johnson wants to open a hub in York and move a load of civil servants northwards, then why not keep an office there as well?2 -
When people would rather switch to YouTube than the BBC then what is the point of the Licence Fee?Black_Rook said:The median age of a BBC viewer is now somewhere in excess of 60, and it's mucking about with traditional favourites at the same time as it's reissuing poll tax demands to most of the over-75s. It may not end very well.
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Moore makes a fair point. The problem, I think, is that as long as the left want to fight a culture war, it gives the right a bit of a free pass. Starmer had a chance to get on tv today and say that there is nothing wrong with those songs and that he looks forward to them being sung next year.contrarian said:
No Brian, its just that what matters to you and the mainstream media is not necessarily what matters to the average red wall brexiteer.tlg86 said:
Boris is a smart politician. Choose your battles carefully.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
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Johnson has said more about the need for someone to sing Rue Britannia in an empty hall in October than he has about the exams fiasco. Culture wars is literally all he has. There is nothing else there.0
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I can recommend a recording by Thomas Allen.rpjs said:
The version of "Married to a Mermaid" I learnt at school changed the refrain toIshmaelZ said:
I think I know all the words to the marri-ed to a merma-id version. Knowing the proper one would be really weird. NB that 4% = the decapitation constant in polling terms and equates to 0%.Philip_Thompson said:
An odd way to phrase it. I don't think there are many songs which people know all the words for, but they can still appreciate the song.CorrectHorseBattery said:
I know a lot of people my age who could sing all the words to Fresh Prince of Bel Air as an oddly specific song that every word is known of - but not the extended version of the song with the extra verse.
Rule Britannia! Britannia rule the waves!
Britons never never never
Shall be mar-ri-èd to a mermaid at the bottom of the deep blue sea!
Perhaps the BBC should perform that one as a compromise?0 -
Too bad his opponents keep playing to his strength.SouthamObserver said:Johnson has said more about the need for someone to sing Rue Britannia in an empty hall in October than he has about the exams fiasco. Culture wars is literally all he has. There is nothing else there.
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If the hall is empty bar one singer why would there be a Covid issue ?SouthamObserver said:Johnson has said more about the need for someone to sing Rue Britannia in an empty hall in October than he has about the exams fiasco. Culture wars is literally all he has. There is nothing else there.
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Why would he speak about the exams fiasco?SouthamObserver said:Johnson has said more about the need for someone to sing Rue Britannia in an empty hall in October than he has about the exams fiasco. Culture wars is literally all he has. There is nothing else there.
The Education Secretaries in England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland have all dealt with it, while he was on holiday. While Parliament is in recess.
Do you not believe in devolved government?
Do you not believe in Cabinet Government?
Why should the Prime Minister be speaking about what the 4 Education Secretaries have all already done?0 -
Beeb certainly seem intent on repeatedly shooting themselves in the foot.MaxPB said:It's sad that everyone is going fall for this bullshit, the BBC is a disgrace and they've given Boris the perfect bullshit fluff story to distract from his rubbish leadership and awful decision making.
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As I say, there is nothing there but culture wars. Starmer understands this, which is why the Tories are really going to have to start focusing a bit more on being competent.tlg86 said:
Too bad his opponents keep playing to his strength.SouthamObserver said:Johnson has said more about the need for someone to sing Rue Britannia in an empty hall in October than he has about the exams fiasco. Culture wars is literally all he has. There is nothing else there.
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My friend across the road, who has been there in her second home since March, returned to her (old) first home in Haringey this week, having been away from London for five months. She finds the people in the flat above are moving out, having decided to buy a smallholding in Wales and switch to the quieter life. She says her road is full of For Sale and Sold signs, and the streets are much quieter than ‘usual’. Her employer is allowing people to work at home indefinitely, and as a consequence she is going to make the island her first home.Black_Rook said:
The more that happens, the greater the seepage of economic activity and political power out of London and into the provinces becomes.HYUFD said:
This is also a huge opportunity for the current Government if they're willing to fully embrace it. Parliament may not want to leave Westminster, but there's no reason why the cabinet couldn't meet elsewhere more often. Indeed, if Boris Johnson wants to open a hub in York and move a load of civil servants northwards, then why not keep an office there as well?0 -
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8662651/BBC-Songs-Praise-producer-compares-Rule-Britannia-Nazis-singing-gas-chambers.html
Oh dear. Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear....
Its not been a good day. It really hasn't0 -
Of course!! The PM should not be concerned withthe future of the country's kids, he shoiuld be focus laser-like on the need for a soloist to sing Rule Britannia in an empty hall in October. :-DPhilip_Thompson said:
Why would he speak about the exams fiasco?SouthamObserver said:Johnson has said more about the need for someone to sing Rue Britannia in an empty hall in October than he has about the exams fiasco. Culture wars is literally all he has. There is nothing else there.
The Education Secretaries in England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland have all dealt with it, while he was on holiday. While Parliament is in recess.
Do you not believe in devolved government?
Do you not believe in Cabinet Government?
Why should the Prime Minister be speaking about what the 4 Education Secretaries have all already done?
Any chance you could DM mem about some magic beans I have going cheap ;-)
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As a compromise, The BBC might have used Beethoven's anniversary to broadcast his five variations for piano on Rule Britannia.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocwc9PHwZWY0 -
What is there to say with the future of the country's kids? "The exam results they have now are right"? What can he possibly say that isn't totally redundant and hasn't been said already?SouthamObserver said:
Of course!! The PM should not be concerned withthe future of the country's kids, he shoiuld be focus laser-like on the need for a soloist to sing Rule Britannia in an empty hall in October. :-DPhilip_Thompson said:
Why would he speak about the exams fiasco?SouthamObserver said:Johnson has said more about the need for someone to sing Rue Britannia in an empty hall in October than he has about the exams fiasco. Culture wars is literally all he has. There is nothing else there.
The Education Secretaries in England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland have all dealt with it, while he was on holiday. While Parliament is in recess.
Do you not believe in devolved government?
Do you not believe in Cabinet Government?
Why should the Prime Minister be speaking about what the 4 Education Secretaries have all already done?
Any chance you could DM mem about some magic beans I have going cheap ;-)
Far more relevant surely is the reopening of schools next month (or already in Scotland) and he has been talking about that.1 -
If Starmer takes culture out of the equation then you may be right. The evidence to date isn’t promising.SouthamObserver said:
As I say, there is nothing there but culture wars. Starmer understands this, which is why the Tories are really going to have to start focusing a bit more on being competent.tlg86 said:
Too bad his opponents keep playing to his strength.SouthamObserver said:Johnson has said more about the need for someone to sing Rue Britannia in an empty hall in October than he has about the exams fiasco. Culture wars is literally all he has. There is nothing else there.
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Combination of Beethoven's 200th anniversary and Rule Britannia, the introduction to Wellington's Victory.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_ibES7i-HU1 -
Besides anything else, even if Starmer is disciplined in his approach and messaging his party now consists almost entirely of metro left-libs - and they aren't all going to get off their hobby horses.tlg86 said:
If Starmer takes culture out of the equation then you may be right. The evidence to date isn’t promising.SouthamObserver said:
As I say, there is nothing there but culture wars. Starmer understands this, which is why the Tories are really going to have to start focusing a bit more on being competent.tlg86 said:
Too bad his opponents keep playing to his strength.SouthamObserver said:Johnson has said more about the need for someone to sing Rue Britannia in an empty hall in October than he has about the exams fiasco. Culture wars is literally all he has. There is nothing else there.
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iTunes hasn't been relevant in about five years, what's streaming looking like0
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It's not even in the Top 40, Guido is irrelevant as usual0
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Well everyone keeps saying they want to rebalance the economy away from London and the South East. Looks to me like it is being done for them.Black_Rook said:
The more that happens, the greater the seepage of economic activity and political power out of London and into the provinces becomes.HYUFD said:
This is also a huge opportunity for the current Government if they're willing to fully embrace it. Parliament may not want to leave Westminster, but there's no reason why the cabinet couldn't meet elsewhere more often. Indeed, if Boris Johnson wants to open a hub in York and move a load of civil servants northwards, then why not keep an office there as well?0 -
https://open.spotify.com/playlist/37i9dQZEVXbLnolsZ8PSNw?si=0soMGumuQnWSCY0uS0iWNg
On a service people actually use, it's nowhere. No surprise there then.0 -
Rule Britannia is quite a good song to be honest. Remember the lyrics are “Britannia, rule the waves!” Not “Britannia rules the waves”. And “Britons will never ever ever be slaves” is fine for a feel good patriotic song.
I prefer Jerusalem though. That’s about working together to build Heaven on earth on the land that is England. Much more inspiring than the French “kill the impure blood” and the Scottish “we beat you in a battle a while back”.3 -
If it is culture wars then clearly the Wokes have already lost with 77% of those expressing a preference saying it should be played as normal.HYUFD said:Interesting that 16% of Labour voters think the songs should not be performed at all but just 1% of Tory voters think they should not be played.
Over 80% of Tories and Leavers think the songs should be played with lyrics, under 50% of Labour and Remain voters think they should be played with lyrics and only half of LDs think they should be played with lyrics.
Clearly the culture wars have now crossed the Atlantic1 -
I completely agree with you.CorrectHorseBattery said:It's not even in the Top 40, Guido is irrelevant as usual
Music really isn't a relevant metric at the best of times* but if you want to measure it then streaming is how its done in 2020.
* Remember the greatest hits of Corbynism at Glastonbury? Or Ding Dong, The Witch Is Dead getting into the charts? Really reflected by future actual elections . . .0 -
Absolutely agree with you, that's a rarity.Philip_Thompson said:
I completely agree with you.CorrectHorseBattery said:It's not even in the Top 40, Guido is irrelevant as usual
Music really isn't a relevant metric at the best of times* but if you want to measure it then streaming is how its done in 2020.
* Remember the greatest hits of Corbynism at Glastonbury? Or Ding Dong, The Witch Is Dead getting into the charts? Really reflected by future actual elections . . .0 -
I'm going to hazard a guess to get a song on the top of the iTunes chart you'll need a few thousand downloads.
https://www.fool.com/investing/2019/03/05/how-streaming-has-affected-apples-share-of-the-us.aspx
Subscriptions accounted for 47.3% of all revenue in the U.S. Meanwhile, digital downloads make up 10.1% of sales.
And that's in the US, Spotify has been around in the UK longer.
I'm going to make a guess and say it's about 5% or less of total consumed content, so with a few thousand downloads, you can put something on the top.0 -
When they say no lyrics I wonder how they expect to stop the audience singing it?0
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But isn't that exactly the point, there are no lyrics because there's no audienceRichard_Tyndall said:When they say no lyrics I wonder how they expect to stop the audience singing it?
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Good for them. Wifey very taken with Aberdeenshire, my new contract is very much work anywhere, so a move is now being looked at in more detail. Yes it will involve travel to see retail customers mainly in England. But so what...HYUFD said:0 -
Is there going to be an audience?Richard_Tyndall said:When they say no lyrics I wonder how they expect to stop the audience singing it?
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I genuinely couldn't give a toss about this issue, I would be a don't know/don't care on the YouGov poll, The Proms isn't my thing at all0
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I bet that median is for people who view BBC daily or is weighted by hours watched or something similar. That is mainly because pensioners watch so much more tv than the rest of us.Black_Rook said:The median age of a BBC viewer is now somewhere in excess of 60, and it's mucking about with traditional favourites at the same time as it's reissuing poll tax demands to most of the over-75s. It may not end very well.
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Haven't you posted like a hundred times on this issue in the past two days?CorrectHorseBattery said:I genuinely couldn't give a toss about this issue, I would be a don't know/don't care on the YouGov poll, The Proms isn't my thing at all
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Erh, no?RobD said:
Haven't you posted like a hundred times on this issue in the past two days?CorrectHorseBattery said:I genuinely couldn't give a toss about this issue, I would be a don't know/don't care on the YouGov poll, The Proms isn't my thing at all
If you want it to have lyrics, give it lyrics, I won't comment again0 -
I won't be tuning in to Last Night this year anyway probably. Without the audience engagement with the Sea Shanties etc then what point is there to it?
Just tune in next year.1 -
The interesting thing will be to see whether Eat Out To Help Out does continue to stimulate demand when it ends. If the idea is to get people used to going out, we will see quite soon if the numbers stay high or whether they drop off quickly.0
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Just guesstimating based on the ten comments in the last ten minutes and the time since the story broke.CorrectHorseBattery said:
Erh, no?RobD said:
Haven't you posted like a hundred times on this issue in the past two days?CorrectHorseBattery said:I genuinely couldn't give a toss about this issue, I would be a don't know/don't care on the YouGov poll, The Proms isn't my thing at all
If you want it to have lyrics, give it lyrics, I won't comment again0 -
Perfect fodder for the Cummings / Johnson culture-war machine.1
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At the moment it's very largely from London to the South East - but the medium-term effects of WFH should see more people moving further away in search of larger and more affordable homes.Richard_Tyndall said:
Well everyone keeps saying they want to rebalance the economy away from London and the South East. Looks to me like it is being done for them.Black_Rook said:
The more that happens, the greater the seepage of economic activity and political power out of London and into the provinces becomes.HYUFD said:
This is also a huge opportunity for the current Government if they're willing to fully embrace it. Parliament may not want to leave Westminster, but there's no reason why the cabinet couldn't meet elsewhere more often. Indeed, if Boris Johnson wants to open a hub in York and move a load of civil servants northwards, then why not keep an office there as well?
We only live in the Home Counties because we're glued to our jobs - especially me, as I cannot work from home - but if it were theoretically possible to relocate the employment to Pembrokeshire or Northumberland then we'd be off like a shot. Why take on a huge new mortgage to trade up from a flat to a house, for example, if you can sell the flat, move somewhere cheaper and buy the house outright?3 -
Forgot that bit :-)CorrectHorseBattery said:
But isn't that exactly the point, there are no lyrics because there's no audienceRichard_Tyndall said:When they say no lyrics I wonder how they expect to stop the audience singing it?
I will be giving it a miss this year in that case. Shame as it is one of the highlights of my year.0 -
Indeed.CorrectHorseBattery said:https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-53911505
Wow is all I can say
I thought it was something of a gimmick, but absolutely not.3 -
I for one am fully in favour of working from home, commuting should be a thing of the past.
Perfect excuse for FTTP, low latency is essential for video conferencing.1 -
I'm going to be very interested to see whether demand stays up when it endscontrarian said:
Indeed.CorrectHorseBattery said:https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-53911505
Wow is all I can say
I thought it was something of a gimmick, but absolutely not.1 -
Of course if you job can be done fully remotely without physical presence at all, it won't be long before it's outsourced. If people think that this crisis may have slowed globalisation they've got another thing coming!CorrectHorseBattery said:I for one am fully in favour of working from home, commuting should be a thing of the past.
Perfect excuse for FTTP, low latency is essential for video conferencing.2 -
I don't think so in my particular case (although I don't think we will go to WFH forever, it will be a day or two in the office occasionally), we've found before that outsourced engineers tend to do a worse job and more time is spent fixing bugsRobD said:
Of course if you job can be done fully remotely without physical presence at all, it won't be long before it's outsourced. If people think that this crisis may have slowed globalisation they've got another thing coming!CorrectHorseBattery said:I for one am fully in favour of working from home, commuting should be a thing of the past.
Perfect excuse for FTTP, low latency is essential for video conferencing.0 -
I don't think so, which goes back to the main point. The normal Last Night jollities are off the agenda this year, and Rule Britannia, if it works at all, needs a big raucous crowd. Same as the British Sea Songs number; without an audience mucking around, it's not a great piece.Philip_Thompson said:
Is there going to be an audience?Richard_Tyndall said:When they say no lyrics I wonder how they expect to stop the audience singing it?
(Rule Britannia is fairly lazy patriotism at that. "I vow to thee my country" is much better, given it's implication that, you know, we might have to contribute something rather than just saying we're going to be brilliant.)
But yes. The bright sparks at No 10 have realised that this is a great wedge issue. Get their core vote wound up about the singing of a song that virtually nobody knows the words to, which is likely to sound rubbish if it is sung in this context. (Though my "sing it in the style of the John Lewis Christmas Ad" proposal is still on the table, for my usual fee.)
Very smart politics, very stupid government, excellent illustration of the aphorism about patriotism and scoundrels.6 -
I commuted for thirty five years. Half a lifetime of cancelled trains, delayed services, packed and stifling carriages, leaves on the line, frozen points, trespassers, badger on the tracks at Surbiton etc etc etc.CorrectHorseBattery said:I for one am fully in favour of working from home, commuting should be a thing of the past.
Perfect excuse for FTTP, low latency is essential for video conferencing.
There was no alternative. No way of punishing bad railway practice, management, funding, staffing etc.
Now there is. And thank f8ck for that.4 -
If you're ever in London in Summer, definitely go. Top notch performances, friendly crowd. Mostly totally unlike the Last Night. It's a lovely way to spend a summer evening.CorrectHorseBattery said:I genuinely couldn't give a toss about this issue, I would be a don't know/don't care on the YouGov poll, The Proms isn't my thing at all
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I don't see how its stupid government or being a scoundrel to be playing some smart politics during Silly Season.Stuartinromford said:
I don't think so, which goes back to the main point. The normal Last Night jollities are off the agenda this year, and Rule Britannia, if it works at all, needs a big raucous crowd. Same as the British Sea Songs number; without an audience mucking around, it's not a great piece.Philip_Thompson said:
Is there going to be an audience?Richard_Tyndall said:When they say no lyrics I wonder how they expect to stop the audience singing it?
(Rule Britannia is fairly lazy patriotism at that. "I vow to thee my country" is much better, given it's implication that, you know, we might have to contribute something rather than just saying we're going to be brilliant.)
But yes. The bright sparks at No 10 have realised that this is a great wedge issue. Get their core vote wound up about the singing of a song that virtually nobody knows the words to, which is likely to sound rubbish if it is sung in this context. (Though my "sing it in the style of the John Lewis Christmas Ad" proposal is still on the table, for my usual fee.)
Very smart politics, very stupid government, excellent illustration of the aphorism about patriotism and scoundrels.
There isn't really any other news happening that's being ignored. Parliament is in recess, not much is going on even for an action packed year. The Prime Minister spoke about kids going back to school which is far more important but nobody wants to talk about that. Its the media and Twitter as much as the PM driving this issue being discussed.1 -
Rule Britannia is a Brexit issue.CorrectHorseBattery said:I genuinely couldn't give a toss about this issue, I would be a don't know/don't care on the YouGov poll, The Proms isn't my thing at all
Former Remainers couldn't care less one way or the other. Brexiteers have all turned into "Mr Angry from Purley" or "Disgusted of Tunbridge Wells".5 -
Rishi Dishi anecdote.
We hadn't been out at all since early February due to the virus until this month and probably wouldn't have gone out this month were it not for the scheme. We've been out three times this month, because of young children we can only go to family friendly venues - been out twice to a local pub/restaurant near us that has reopened with a limited menu. Went the second time at lunch today, annual leave this week so we could go in the day - we did call yesterday to get a table at 5:30 originally but they were fully booked for the evening today and tomorrow before 8pm which is too late for kids so went for lunch instead. Would only normally have a main meal but went for a three course meal today, whole meal for the whole family came to £30 after the discount . The only other time I've used the discount was taking the kids to McDonalds* once. The restaurant we went to today at lunch was pretty packed at lunch time, the tables were all spaced out to be COVID-safe but its a big venue with lots of tables and practically every single table was occupied while we were there - and that's at lunch time on top of it being sold out tonight.
PS spacing out the tables to be COVID safe wasn't especially that different to how they were pre-COVID. Tables less than a metre apart are a bit encroaching on your personal space at the best of times anyway.
* On my trip to McDonalds there was a queue out the door for about 10-15 minutes to get a table, all socially distanced with everyone wearing masks. One thing I noticed while there was every single table I could see had young children at it - some here were complaining about McDonalds being included with the scheme but the reality is they too are a restaurant and if parents are going to take their children out would you rather they take them to somewhere meant to be family friendly like that or to 'posher' 'proper' restaurants that maybe don't have kids as often?1 -
I think what the last night needs this year is a reprise of Birtwistle’s Panic. Why has Boris literally nothing to say on the issue?0
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Yep. Johnson in like a whippet with an "off the cuff" piece of Lachrymose Leaver tickling. One cringes, one really does. Not, as he bleats, at our history, but at him. He really is a PM for the ignorami. And 2024 is such a long way off. Oh god.WhisperingOracle said:Perfect fodder for the Cummings / Johnson culture-war machine.
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Called it, he should never play for England ever again*
https://twitter.com/SkySportsNews/status/1298332100916129795
*Unless the appellate process goes in his favour but we all know he's guilty as sin because he plays for the devil's team.0 -
For all of those complaining how many knew that Rule Britannia had been dropped from the last night of the proms from 2001-2007. Did it ruin the show? Did it stop you being a patriot? Or did you just enjoy some of the other songs?1
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Thanks mate, maybe next year, I live in London already so not far for me to goStuartinromford said:
If you're ever in London in Summer, definitely go. Top notch performances, friendly crowd. Mostly totally unlike the Last Night. It's a lovely way to spend a summer evening.CorrectHorseBattery said:I genuinely couldn't give a toss about this issue, I would be a don't know/don't care on the YouGov poll, The Proms isn't my thing at all
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All being well, DC’s father-in-law really is in the know on this one.kinabalu said:
Yep. Johnson in like a whippet with an "off the cuff" piece of Lachrymose Leaver tickling. One cringes, one really does. Not, as he bleats, at our history, but at him. He really is a PM for the ignorami. And 2024 is such a long way off. Oh god.WhisperingOracle said:Perfect fodder for the Cummings / Johnson culture-war machine.
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Another programme the BBC have wanted rid of for years, currently buried in a lunchtime slot.contrarian said:https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8662651/BBC-Songs-Praise-producer-compares-Rule-Britannia-Nazis-singing-gas-chambers.html
Oh dear. Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear....
Its not been a good day. It really hasn't0 -
Will Southgate resign? He looked like he genuinely wanted to have him in the squad.TheScreamingEagles said:Called it, he should never play for England ever again*
https://twitter.com/SkySportsNews/status/1298332100916129795
*Unless the appellate process goes in his favour but we all know he's guilty as sin because he plays for the devil's team.0 -
Generally, quite cheap tickets too - especially if you actually ‘prom’.CorrectHorseBattery said:
Thanks mate, maybe next year, I live in London already so not far for me to goStuartinromford said:
If you're ever in London in Summer, definitely go. Top notch performances, friendly crowd. Mostly totally unlike the Last Night. It's a lovely way to spend a summer evening.CorrectHorseBattery said:I genuinely couldn't give a toss about this issue, I would be a don't know/don't care on the YouGov poll, The Proms isn't my thing at all
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I think he'll stay, most of Euro 2021 will be played in England for the England team, gives him a great shot of winning the tournament.tlg86 said:
Will Southgate resign? He looked like he genuinely wanted to have him in the squad.TheScreamingEagles said:Called it, he should never play for England ever again*
https://twitter.com/SkySportsNews/status/1298332100916129795
*Unless the appellate process goes in his favour but we all know he's guilty as sin because he plays for the devil's team.
He may never get an opportunity like that again.0 -
Yes, anything except the last night is great fun. It's like going to the opera, not something I'd normally do but great once I'd been and now we use it as a nice excuse to get dressed up and have a fun evening out. I really miss it now.Stuartinromford said:
If you're ever in London in Summer, definitely go. Top notch performances, friendly crowd. Mostly totally unlike the Last Night. It's a lovely way to spend a summer evening.CorrectHorseBattery said:I genuinely couldn't give a toss about this issue, I would be a don't know/don't care on the YouGov poll, The Proms isn't my thing at all
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And, as a hack, BoJo blooming well knows that. He chose to inflate the story, because he could. But since you ask, there are various non-scoundrel ways of dealing with this.Philip_Thompson said:
I don't see how its stupid government or being a scoundrel to be playing some smart politics during Silly Season.Stuartinromford said:
I don't think so, which goes back to the main point. The normal Last Night jollities are off the agenda this year, and Rule Britannia, if it works at all, needs a big raucous crowd. Same as the British Sea Songs number; without an audience mucking around, it's not a great piece.Philip_Thompson said:
Is there going to be an audience?Richard_Tyndall said:When they say no lyrics I wonder how they expect to stop the audience singing it?
(Rule Britannia is fairly lazy patriotism at that. "I vow to thee my country" is much better, given it's implication that, you know, we might have to contribute something rather than just saying we're going to be brilliant.)
But yes. The bright sparks at No 10 have realised that this is a great wedge issue. Get their core vote wound up about the singing of a song that virtually nobody knows the words to, which is likely to sound rubbish if it is sung in this context. (Though my "sing it in the style of the John Lewis Christmas Ad" proposal is still on the table, for my usual fee.)
Very smart politics, very stupid government, excellent illustration of the aphorism about patriotism and scoundrels.
There isn't really any other news happening that's being ignored. Parliament is in recess, not much is going on even for an action packed year. The Prime Minister spoke about kids going back to school which is far more important but nobody wants to talk about that. Its the media and Twitter as much as the PM driving this issue being discussed.
One is for Johnson to actually be liberal. "You know, it's important that the BBC serves the public without fear or favour, and as Prime Minister I mustn't be the one telling them what to do."
Another is to be supportive and avuncular. "We will all miss the singing, as we have missed so many things this year. But the important thing is to defeat the virus, and look forward to gathering again in the future."
He did neither of those things, because he saw a political opportunity to get one over on the libs. Act of a scoundrel.1 -
‘Thought for the day’. Please, please, just put it out of its misery!!dodrade said:
Another programme the BBC have wanted rid of for years, currently buried in a lunchtime slot.contrarian said:https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8662651/BBC-Songs-Praise-producer-compares-Rule-Britannia-Nazis-singing-gas-chambers.html
Oh dear. Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear....
Its not been a good day. It really hasn't2 -
But it is boringly possible that it is working in an office which makes in-house engineers more reliable.CorrectHorseBattery said:
I don't think so in my particular case (although I don't think we will go to WFH forever, it will be a day or two in the office occasionally), we've found before that outsourced engineers tend to do a worse job and more time is spent fixing bugsRobD said:
Of course if you job can be done fully remotely without physical presence at all, it won't be long before it's outsourced. If people think that this crisis may have slowed globalisation they've got another thing coming!CorrectHorseBattery said:I for one am fully in favour of working from home, commuting should be a thing of the past.
Perfect excuse for FTTP, low latency is essential for video conferencing.
There are terrific advantages to wfh but also positively dystopian potential downsides, which get comparatively little airtime. It's a massive invasion of liberty that your employer can tell you what to do in your own home and monitor you doing it. It is monstrously boring being in the same place 24/7 - it's why bored housewives are bored. Literally millions of marriages keep going because the parties have most of their waking time apart (lots of them fail promptly on retirement).
Most importantly, coupled with the housing crisis it has the potential to be so socially divisive it makes the public schools look like a communist plot: Johnny who went to Eton gets the job not because he went to Eton but because m and d can buy or rent him a residence with room to put a computer in. Kevin the sofa surfer, irrespective of his other talents, is as fucked as a black South African under apartheid. Unless he thinks he can fake it and "wfh" from starbucks. Which he can't.0 -
And there were lots of complaints about it. And yes it did diminish the event.noneoftheabove said:For all of those complaining how many knew that Rule Britannia had been dropped from the last night of the proms from 2001-2007. Did it ruin the show? Did it stop you being a patriot? Or did you just enjoy some of the other songs?
Besides 2001 was special as it was a few days after 9/11.0 -
I genuinely believe that Ronald Koeman will not manage Barcelona in a competitive match.0
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Tbf, it's politics. The BBC handed him an opportunity, he took it. The stupidity lies with the BBC for pushing the woke agenda for a show that appeals to an older crowd that have no love for wokeism. It feels like the BBC has got Tory sleeper agents running it. The PM is in trouble over schools, virus and has got a popular chancellor breathing down his neck and the BBC chooses this exact moment to inflate a nothing row over some music that is ultimately meaningless.Stuartinromford said:
And, as a hack, BoJo blooming well knows that. He chose to inflate the story, because he could. But since you ask, there are various non-scoundrel ways of dealing with this.Philip_Thompson said:
I don't see how its stupid government or being a scoundrel to be playing some smart politics during Silly Season.Stuartinromford said:
I don't think so, which goes back to the main point. The normal Last Night jollities are off the agenda this year, and Rule Britannia, if it works at all, needs a big raucous crowd. Same as the British Sea Songs number; without an audience mucking around, it's not a great piece.Philip_Thompson said:
Is there going to be an audience?Richard_Tyndall said:When they say no lyrics I wonder how they expect to stop the audience singing it?
(Rule Britannia is fairly lazy patriotism at that. "I vow to thee my country" is much better, given it's implication that, you know, we might have to contribute something rather than just saying we're going to be brilliant.)
But yes. The bright sparks at No 10 have realised that this is a great wedge issue. Get their core vote wound up about the singing of a song that virtually nobody knows the words to, which is likely to sound rubbish if it is sung in this context. (Though my "sing it in the style of the John Lewis Christmas Ad" proposal is still on the table, for my usual fee.)
Very smart politics, very stupid government, excellent illustration of the aphorism about patriotism and scoundrels.
There isn't really any other news happening that's being ignored. Parliament is in recess, not much is going on even for an action packed year. The Prime Minister spoke about kids going back to school which is far more important but nobody wants to talk about that. Its the media and Twitter as much as the PM driving this issue being discussed.
One is for Johnson to actually be liberal. "You know, it's important that the BBC serves the public without fear or favour, and as Prime Minister I mustn't be the one telling them what to do."
Another is to be supportive and avuncular. "We will all miss the singing, as we have missed so many things this year. But the important thing is to defeat the virus, and look forward to gathering again in the future."
He did neither of those things, because he saw a political opportunity to get one over on the libs. Act of a scoundrel.3 -
I think debate has been a lot better today, really enjoying the variety of views today1
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No, an act of a politician.Stuartinromford said:
And, as a hack, BoJo blooming well knows that. He chose to inflate the story, because he could. But since you ask, there are various non-scoundrel ways of dealing with this.Philip_Thompson said:
I don't see how its stupid government or being a scoundrel to be playing some smart politics during Silly Season.Stuartinromford said:
I don't think so, which goes back to the main point. The normal Last Night jollities are off the agenda this year, and Rule Britannia, if it works at all, needs a big raucous crowd. Same as the British Sea Songs number; without an audience mucking around, it's not a great piece.Philip_Thompson said:
Is there going to be an audience?Richard_Tyndall said:When they say no lyrics I wonder how they expect to stop the audience singing it?
(Rule Britannia is fairly lazy patriotism at that. "I vow to thee my country" is much better, given it's implication that, you know, we might have to contribute something rather than just saying we're going to be brilliant.)
But yes. The bright sparks at No 10 have realised that this is a great wedge issue. Get their core vote wound up about the singing of a song that virtually nobody knows the words to, which is likely to sound rubbish if it is sung in this context. (Though my "sing it in the style of the John Lewis Christmas Ad" proposal is still on the table, for my usual fee.)
Very smart politics, very stupid government, excellent illustration of the aphorism about patriotism and scoundrels.
There isn't really any other news happening that's being ignored. Parliament is in recess, not much is going on even for an action packed year. The Prime Minister spoke about kids going back to school which is far more important but nobody wants to talk about that. Its the media and Twitter as much as the PM driving this issue being discussed.
One is for Johnson to actually be liberal. "You know, it's important that the BBC serves the public without fear or favour, and as Prime Minister I mustn't be the one telling them what to do."
Another is to be supportive and avuncular. "We will all miss the singing, as we have missed so many things this year. But the important thing is to defeat the virus, and look forward to gathering again in the future."
He did neither of those things, because he saw a political opportunity to get one over on the libs. Act of a scoundrel.
A scoundrel is dishonest or unscrupulous - he's not been either.0 -
Indeed. The BBC could have neutralised this easily and said its nothing to do with wokeness - they could have said that the music will be played but due to COVID its going to be different this year without an audience or a singer, but they look forward to it being back to normal next year. They didn't do that, they played into the culture war issue and then are surprised when others jump into it to. The BBC started this not the PM.MaxPB said:
Tbf, it's politics. The BBC handed him an opportunity, he took it. The stupidity lies with the BBC for pushing the woke agenda for a show that appeals to an older crowd that have no love for wokeism. It feels like the BBC has got Tory sleeper agents running it. The PM is in trouble over schools, virus and has got a popular chancellor breathing down his neck and the BBC chooses this exact moment to inflate a nothing row over some music that is ultimately meaningless.Stuartinromford said:
And, as a hack, BoJo blooming well knows that. He chose to inflate the story, because he could. But since you ask, there are various non-scoundrel ways of dealing with this.Philip_Thompson said:
I don't see how its stupid government or being a scoundrel to be playing some smart politics during Silly Season.Stuartinromford said:
I don't think so, which goes back to the main point. The normal Last Night jollities are off the agenda this year, and Rule Britannia, if it works at all, needs a big raucous crowd. Same as the British Sea Songs number; without an audience mucking around, it's not a great piece.Philip_Thompson said:
Is there going to be an audience?Richard_Tyndall said:When they say no lyrics I wonder how they expect to stop the audience singing it?
(Rule Britannia is fairly lazy patriotism at that. "I vow to thee my country" is much better, given it's implication that, you know, we might have to contribute something rather than just saying we're going to be brilliant.)
But yes. The bright sparks at No 10 have realised that this is a great wedge issue. Get their core vote wound up about the singing of a song that virtually nobody knows the words to, which is likely to sound rubbish if it is sung in this context. (Though my "sing it in the style of the John Lewis Christmas Ad" proposal is still on the table, for my usual fee.)
Very smart politics, very stupid government, excellent illustration of the aphorism about patriotism and scoundrels.
There isn't really any other news happening that's being ignored. Parliament is in recess, not much is going on even for an action packed year. The Prime Minister spoke about kids going back to school which is far more important but nobody wants to talk about that. Its the media and Twitter as much as the PM driving this issue being discussed.
One is for Johnson to actually be liberal. "You know, it's important that the BBC serves the public without fear or favour, and as Prime Minister I mustn't be the one telling them what to do."
Another is to be supportive and avuncular. "We will all miss the singing, as we have missed so many things this year. But the important thing is to defeat the virus, and look forward to gathering again in the future."
He did neither of those things, because he saw a political opportunity to get one over on the libs. Act of a scoundrel.1 -
This from our mayor
Fulfilling my commitment to keep neighbors informed with full transparency about the progress of the coronavirus in Pilar de la Horadada, I must communicate the following:
Public Health has transferred us a few hours ago, that a coronavirus outbreak has been detected in a leisure establishment, where 21 clients whose residence address is mainly in the Region of Murcia have been positive.
All those affected are under follow-up, and are following the indications of the health authorities at all times. Public Health has not communicated the name of the premises to us.
Until yesterday, Monday, August 25, the official data released by the Ministry of Health on its website indicate a total of 35 positive cases accumulated by PCR in Pilar de la Horadada, of which 3 have been detected in the last 15 days.
I strongly request that we all wear the mask, wash our hands frequently, respect social distance, and abide by the regulations recommended by the health authorities. In Pilar de la Horadada we do not have a special incidence, but we cannot lower our guard.
Thank you very much.
Interesting times ahead
Shared to widen peoples knowledge and not as a free target for those who have agendas to persue0 -
She got that off a poster on here, this morning:contrarian said:https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8662651/BBC-Songs-Praise-producer-compares-Rule-Britannia-Nazis-singing-gas-chambers.html
Oh dear. Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear....
Its not been a good day. It really hasn't
"Your overall position would be stronger if you admitted the existence of exceptions and edge cases. Consider, hypothetically, a patriotic German song written in the early 40s with a chorus which said that "True born Germans shall never ever ever be sent to death camps," and there's a valid historical claim that the song is really about, oooh, the fighting on the Russian front, not about Jews at all. Is that song OK? I know it's different, but what are the *relevant* differences?"
Looks a cracking point to me.0 -
It's like Ben and Jerry's, they got into in an argument they had no need to get involved with. The BBC has walked into this and now they will pay the price as are Unilever wrt Ben and Jerry's. As a famous basketballer once said "republicans buy trainers too". Corporates and the BBC should just stay out of these rows and definitely not start them. Nothing is ever enough for the mob and even an inch is too much for majority and in almost all of these cases the majority is not woke.Philip_Thompson said:
Indeed. The BBC could have neutralised this easily and said its nothing to do with wokeness - they could have said that the music will be played but due to COVID its going to be different this year without an audience or a singer, but they look forward to it being back to normal next year. They didn't do that, they played into the culture war issue and then are surprised when others jump into it to. The BBC started this not the PM.MaxPB said:
Tbf, it's politics. The BBC handed him an opportunity, he took it. The stupidity lies with the BBC for pushing the woke agenda for a show that appeals to an older crowd that have no love for wokeism. It feels like the BBC has got Tory sleeper agents running it. The PM is in trouble over schools, virus and has got a popular chancellor breathing down his neck and the BBC chooses this exact moment to inflate a nothing row over some music that is ultimately meaningless.Stuartinromford said:
And, as a hack, BoJo blooming well knows that. He chose to inflate the story, because he could. But since you ask, there are various non-scoundrel ways of dealing with this.Philip_Thompson said:
I don't see how its stupid government or being a scoundrel to be playing some smart politics during Silly Season.Stuartinromford said:
I don't think so, which goes back to the main point. The normal Last Night jollities are off the agenda this year, and Rule Britannia, if it works at all, needs a big raucous crowd. Same as the British Sea Songs number; without an audience mucking around, it's not a great piece.Philip_Thompson said:
Is there going to be an audience?Richard_Tyndall said:When they say no lyrics I wonder how they expect to stop the audience singing it?
(Rule Britannia is fairly lazy patriotism at that. "I vow to thee my country" is much better, given it's implication that, you know, we might have to contribute something rather than just saying we're going to be brilliant.)
But yes. The bright sparks at No 10 have realised that this is a great wedge issue. Get their core vote wound up about the singing of a song that virtually nobody knows the words to, which is likely to sound rubbish if it is sung in this context. (Though my "sing it in the style of the John Lewis Christmas Ad" proposal is still on the table, for my usual fee.)
Very smart politics, very stupid government, excellent illustration of the aphorism about patriotism and scoundrels.
There isn't really any other news happening that's being ignored. Parliament is in recess, not much is going on even for an action packed year. The Prime Minister spoke about kids going back to school which is far more important but nobody wants to talk about that. Its the media and Twitter as much as the PM driving this issue being discussed.
One is for Johnson to actually be liberal. "You know, it's important that the BBC serves the public without fear or favour, and as Prime Minister I mustn't be the one telling them what to do."
Another is to be supportive and avuncular. "We will all miss the singing, as we have missed so many things this year. But the important thing is to defeat the virus, and look forward to gathering again in the future."
He did neither of those things, because he saw a political opportunity to get one over on the libs. Act of a scoundrel.1 -
Agree. It is the audience participation that makes the event what it is.Philip_Thompson said:I won't be tuning in to Last Night this year anyway probably. Without the audience engagement with the Sea Shanties etc then what point is there to it?
Just tune in next year.0 -
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It's a sensible policy, if older children can spread the virus in the same way as adults then they need to wear masks. The scientific advisors in this country haven't covered themselves in glory wrt masks so the PM acting against their advice is welcome.CorrectHorseBattery said:0 -
(with apologies to Pete & Dud) Laugh? I nearly ShatCorrectHorseBattery said:0 -
Whats even more remarkable is that she managed to post that at 7.49am and yet she managed to get it from here where it was posted at 10.40am.....I am more interested in her time machine to be honest.IshmaelZ said:
She got that off a poster on here, this morning:contrarian said:https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8662651/BBC-Songs-Praise-producer-compares-Rule-Britannia-Nazis-singing-gas-chambers.html
Oh dear. Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear....
Its not been a good day. It really hasn't
"Your overall position would be stronger if you admitted the existence of exceptions and edge cases. Consider, hypothetically, a patriotic German song written in the early 40s with a chorus which said that "True born Germans shall never ever ever be sent to death camps," and there's a valid historical claim that the song is really about, oooh, the fighting on the Russian front, not about Jews at all. Is that song OK? I know it's different, but what are the *relevant* differences?"
Looks a cracking point to me.0 -
I don't normally agree with you but that's both fair and also made me laugh!Gallowgate said:Rule Britannia is quite a good song to be honest. Remember the lyrics are “Britannia, rule the waves!” Not “Britannia rules the waves”. And “Britons will never ever ever be slaves” is fine for a feel good patriotic song.
I prefer Jerusalem though. That’s about working together to build Heaven on earth on the land that is England. Much more inspiring than the French “kill the impure blood” and the Scottish “we beat you in a battle a while back”.0 -
For those who still think this whole Proms row was confected a BBC producer writes..
https://twitter.com/catrionalewis/status/1298150530418704385?s=190 -
The World Health Organisation changed its advice on facemasks in schools, our SAGE scientists and the government have responded as a result. Not complicated.CorrectHorseBattery said:
When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?0 -
It's having a significant effect on job-hunting, qualified by uncertainty about duration. I know people who would be happy top live somewhere cheap and rural and work from home, instead of paying through the nose to live near work.Conversely I know at least one job-hunter who hates Lomdon but is now looking at London jobs on the assumption that he'll not need to actually go in very often.RochdalePioneers said:
Good for them. Wifey very taken with Aberdeenshire, my new contract is very much work anywhere, so a move is now being looked at in more detail. Yes it will involve travel to see retail customers mainly in England. But so what...HYUFD said:
But what if a vaccine appears and employers want you to come in again? Awkward if they've just bought your dream cottage in Aberdeensire...0
This discussion has been closed.