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  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,723

    Thanks Richard, that's interesting, but I think Churchill is implicated somewhere. Maybe he picked it up uncritically from Kipling. I'm sure he uses the term in his WW2 volumes, but I don't want to look it up in case I am wrong.
    He is reported in John Colville's wartime diary as planning to end his speech, in the event of German invasion, with "The hour has come; kill the Hun.".
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,385
    edited July 2020
    Some anecdata for you all.

    As many of you know, I started an auto insurance company in Arizona. It's different from most insurers in that it is pure "pay per mile" (and it's liability / third party only for now). This means we get pretty good data on how much people are driving.

    In March, when there was a full lockdown, our customers drove about 480 miles. In April, 550. In June almost 600. This month, as Arizona has de facto locked down again, we might be below March's number - it could be as little as 450. Now, this is one state, and our sample size is small, and schools are now closed for the summer, and July 4 was a public holiday weekend. But miles driven are probably a fairly good proxy for economic activity. And the message from July is that - in Arizona at least - economic activity has come crashing back down again.

    (Oh yeah - please watch the explainer video, and share and click like. Thank you!)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmrRMK84GU4
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,938
    edited July 2020
    LadyG said:

    I've thought for a while that the BBC was heading into trouble - its model is unsustainable in the era of streaming. For the first time, I think its demise will come quite soon, maybe in the next decade.

    All the Tories have to do is decriminalise non-licence-fee-paying. Then that's it. Everything collapses. It is a perfectly legitimate move, on moral grounds, and it instantly demolishes an institution which is hellbent on annoying anyone remotely conservative.
    Contrary to tabloid mythology, this is partly because the Conservatives of the late 1980s and early 1990s destroyed much that was conservative about the BBC. Sometimes patrician highbrow cultural values were replaced by a sort of revolutionary, commercially-focused managerialism, as in many parts of British life at the time.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,640
    kinabalu said:

    I agree the case (CGT on homes) is good. There would be more winners than losers and by and large the losers can afford to lose and the winners need the win. But I sense the public can't be sold on it. Why? Because of how property ownership is perceived. "You work hard, pay your tax, scrimp and save instead of spending so you can buy a nice house for you and your family, and then the government is going to come along and take a big slice when you sell it? NFW!" This sentiment. It's the same reason that IHT is so hated. Just replace "sell it" with "die". I find this irrational and borderline selfish but I accept I'm in a minority.
    Agree that the narrative is the rub.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,636
    kinabalu said:

    I agree the case (CGT on homes) is good. There would be more winners than losers and by and large the losers can afford to lose and the winners need the win. But I sense the public can't be sold on it. Why? Because of how property ownership is perceived. "You work hard, pay your tax, scrimp and save instead of spending so you can buy a nice house for you and your family, and then the government is going to come along and take a big slice when you sell it? NFW!" This sentiment. It's the same reason that IHT is so hated. Just replace "sell it" with "die". I find this irrational and borderline selfish but I accept I'm in a minority.
    You are absolutely right but then when did logic win over politics in the matter of taxation?
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,509
    MattW said:

    Agree that the narrative is the rub.
    Where the hell were you two when I needed you this morning?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,198
    RobD said:

    I thought they were already producing it.
    I see that we are taking advantage of the situation in Brazil that Bolsonaro has created for testing the vaccine.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,787

    He wasn't uncritically anti-German. He seems to have laid much of the blame for German militarism on the Prussians.
    Absolutely, which is why he preferred to refer to the evils of the "Narrzee Party" rather than refer to the Germans themselves, whom I think he otherwise quite admired.
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221

    Contrary to tabloid mythology, this is partly because the Conservatives of the late 1980s and early 1990s destroyed much that was conservative about the BBC. Sometimes patrician highbrow cultural values were replaced by a sort of revolutionary, commercially-focused managerialism, as in many parts of British life at the time.
    Yes that's fair. The Reithian BBC, while a bit up itself, had a lot going for it. And it still managed to produce wildly popular TV at the same time

    Now the BBC, as Philip Thompson points out, does a lot of things that lots of other companies do better - sometimes a LOT better - and they charge us a poll tax to churn out this mediocrity. It's pointless.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    People did get excited to vote AGAINST Corbyn (correctly IMO). That is why we ended up with a clown for PM, rather than a terrorist sympathising Marxist. People preferred The Clown. Ridiculous was less frightening than dangerous.
    I specifically interested in Presidential elections though. I think the evidence of US midterms is pretty clear that 'negative' enthusiasm is a huge driver of the vote. I think the Dems did well in2018 based on negative enthusiasm. But I am unsure that it is the key for Presidential elections.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,298
    Scott_xP said:
    Starmer gave him a good going over. Davey put him to the sword!
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,094

    He's not – he's more like 5-8.

    I've met hime twice and tower over him – and I'm on the short side of 5-11.
    He is also a shoogly bachle so looks even shorter due to poor posture
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,035
    FF43 said:

    The "More briefs than Calvin Klein" has a good ring. Missed the target nevertheless. Firstly, Starmer's job is to ask questions - the clue's in the PMQs title. Secondly, Starmer's rather clever question was "What would the PM say to those that have lost loved ones to the virus, to ensure lessons have been learnt?" This clearly prepared joke and attack on the LOTO comes across as crass and arrogant.
    felix said:

    It's funny when his critics don't get that the 'jokes' aren't aimed at them. They just plough on regardless giving it even more publicity.
    I don't care for Johnson but I recognise that he has a person that many like. However I'm not sure that his personna is the right one for the public mood during a national crisis. Making the highlight of his PMQ response a silly joke just underlines his lack of gravity to me.

    I suspect that is why Starmer has made up so much ground on him personally since becoming LOTO. He clearly leads Johnson on almost every metric according to the last polling I saw. I expect that trend to continue.

  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    More media news. The Guardian's model is also collapsing. Very sad job losses.

    https://twitter.com/ben_bt/status/1283351434717782016?s=20

    They can't keep giving it away for free. It may be too late to go behind a paywall. Quite a dilemma
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    edited July 2020
    kinabalu said:



    I agree the case (CGT on homes) is good. There would be more winners than losers and by and large the losers can afford to lose and the winners need the win. But I sense the public can't be sold on it. Why? Because of how property ownership is perceived. "You work hard, pay your tax, scrimp and save instead of spending so you can buy a nice house for you and your family, and then the government is going to come along and take a big slice when you sell it? NFW!" This sentiment. It's the same reason that IHT is so hated. Just replace "sell it" with "die". I find this irrational and borderline selfish but I accept I'm in a minority.

    You misunderstand the psychology. It's the arbitrary nature of it which would (rightly) be unpopular. Someone who moves house (or downsizes if you include roll-over relief) gets a £100K bill, someone who doesn't move house doesn't. Now of course many taxes are arbitrary - stamp duty is subject to the same criticism - but they aren't so draconian, amounting to confiscation, when the arbitrary axe falls. It's even more arbitrary if it's not index-linked.

    If you try to design round this by making it index-linked and including 100% rollover relief, then it won't raise all that much and it will just be a tax and therefore a discouragement on downsizing, which (as @Philip_Thompson has pointed out) is the opposite of a good policy outcome.

    Also in this discussion there has been an assumption that house prices always rise. Ain't so, as anyone who remembers the 1990s will testify. So would we also include a tax rebate if you make a capital loss?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,298

    Contrary to tabloid mythology, this is partly because the Conservatives of the late 1980s and early 1990s destroyed much that was conservative about the BBC. Sometimes patrician highbrow cultural values were replaced by a sort of revolutionary, commercially-focused managerialism, as in many parts of British life at the time.
    The spectre of John Birt lives on!
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,094
    LadyG said:

    More media news. The Guardian's model is also collapsing. Very sad job losses.

    https://twitter.com/ben_bt/status/1283351434717782016?s=20

    They can't keep giving it away for free. It may be too late to go behind a paywall. Quite a dilemma

    ^They also cannot continue writing bullshit, they need to get real journalists doing real journalism, papers in UK are pathetic nowadays and their lies and guff are quickly shot to pieces on social media. Circling the drain is what they deserve.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,804
    LadyG said:

    I hear Frogs every so often, but it is always used "ironically" - ie in a knowing, supposedly jocular way, by people well aware it is archaic.

    Rugby fans use it quite a lot. I have a Welsh friend who takes great pleasure in "beating the Frogs, though not as much as beating the f*cking English." I tell him he's a Taff with an inferiority complex. Etc.

    No one gets remotely offended.
    You wouldn't just drop it into an otherwise sober internet post about the economy then? No. Clearly not. Which is why it jarred with me when somebody did.

    But I stress again - no biggie.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,838
    LadyG said:

    Yes that's fair. The Reithian BBC, while a bit up itself, had a lot going for it. And it still managed to produce wildly popular TV at the same time

    Now the BBC, as Philip Thompson points out, does a lot of things that lots of other companies do better - sometimes a LOT better - and they charge us a poll tax to churn out this mediocrity. It's pointless.
    The weirdest thing is when they congratulate themselves for having the best ratings for things like the Queen's Speech, which is just a function of being Channel 1, not some expression of love for the BBC.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,198
    England Regional Case data out -

    image
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,804

    He's not – he's more like 5-8.

    I've met hime twice and tower over him – and I'm on the short side of 5-11.
    Yep. My brother has met him. Says he's short.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,295
    malcolmg said:

    ^They also cannot continue writing bullshit, they need to get real journalists doing real journalism, papers in UK are pathetic nowadays and their lies and guff are quickly shot to pieces on social media. Circling the drain is what they deserve.
    I can't afford to support the Guardian with a subscription. Sorry.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,626
    Selebian said:

    I'm frequently involved in writing reports that present a realistic worst case. The point is to provide a framework in which to determine the potential value of mitigation efforts.

    If this report came back with a worst case of 500 deaths, then probably no mitigations would be worth considering, certainly nothing with high cost. This report suggests that actually a lot of mitigations are worth considering, up to potentially quite high costs (exactly what costs are a political decision).

    This also enables answering questions like do we need to set aside extra mortuary space, burial facilities, do we need to keep Nightingale hospitals online, do we need to train more medics/buy more PPE/more ventilators? All valuable things.
    Fair enough but it just allowed the despicable media to start on the scare stories again. Context is everything and unfortunately Joe and Joanna public don't tend to due nuance.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,795
    malcolmg said:

    He is also a shoogly bachle so looks even shorter due to poor posture
    He is even scruffier and more shambling in real life – an absolute slob of a man.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,257

    You misunderstand the psychology. It's the arbitrary nature of it which would (rightly) be unpopular. Someone who moves house (or downsizes if you include roll-over relief) gets a £100K bill, someone who doesn't move house doesn't. Now of course many taxes are arbitrary - stamp duty is subject to the same criticism - but they aren't so draconian, amounting to confiscation, when the arbitrary axe falls. It's even more arbitrary if it's not index-linked.

    If you try to design round this by making it index-linked and including 100% rollover relief, then it won't raise all that much and it will just be a tax and therefore a discouragement on downsizing, which (as @Philip_Thompson has pointed out) is the opposite of a good policy outcome.

    Also in this discussion there has been an assumption that house prices always rise. Ain't so, as anyone who remembers the 1990s will testify. So would we also include a tax rebate if you make a capital loss?
    Not convinced by the idea but the issue with losses is already sensibly covered by the current system, you dont get a rebate, but you can use it to offset against other gains.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    It's Cancel Culture gone mad... Oh wait.

    https://twitter.com/AyoCaesar/status/1283395115772452866
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822

    England Regional Case data out -

    Are the last two days reliable? It looks like an implausibly sudden drop in Leicester and the other hotspots.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,785
    LadyG said:

    I've thought for a while that the BBC was heading into trouble - its model is unsustainable in the era of streaming. For the first time, I think its demise will come quite soon, maybe in the next decade.

    All the Tories have to do is decriminalise non-licence-fee-paying. Then that's it. Everything collapses. It is a perfectly legitimate move, on moral grounds, and it instantly demolishes an institution which is hellbent on annoying anyone remotely conservative.
    Yes, it's so annoying to conservatives. When I lie awake every night listening to the National Anthem at 1am as BBC R4 closes, and then think ahead to the next episode of Antiques Roadshow, and all the other really subversive left-wing stuff on the BBC.

    In reality, the bulk of the BBC's output remains conservative with a small c, with a few bits of more radical, challenging programming. But I really don't get this notion that the BBC is a hotbed of lefties.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822


    Not convinced by the idea but the issue with losses is already sensibly covered by the current system, you dont get a rebate, but you can use it to offset against other gains.

    But if you're downsizing to retire, you'll have no future gains to offset it against - and it's your only asset in most cases. How is that fair or sensible?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,198
    edited July 2020

    Are the last two days reliable? It looks like an implausibly sudden drop in Leicester and the other hotspots.

    Reporting delays.

    What is interesting, is the concentration of the "problem" into smaller and smaller numbers of areas.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,821

    You misunderstand the psychology. It's the arbitrary nature of it which would (rightly) be unpopular. Someone who moves house (or downsizes if you include roll-over relief) gets a £100K bill, someone who doesn't move house doesn't. Now of course many taxes are arbitrary - stamp duty is subject to the same criticism - but they aren't so draconian, amounting to confiscation, when the arbitrary axe falls. It's even more arbitrary if it's not index-linked.

    If you try to design round this by making it index-linked and including 100% rollover relief, then it won't raise all that much and it will just be a tax and therefore a discouragement on downsizing, which (as @Philip_Thompson has pointed out) is the opposite of a good policy outcome.

    Also in this discussion there has been an assumption that house prices always rise. Ain't so, as anyone who remembers the 1990s will testify. So would we also include a tax rebate if you make a capital loss?
    I would at least want the carry forwards of capital losses to offset gains made in future years.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    edited July 2020


    Reporting delays.
    Right, that makes sense - so cases could still be increasing in some of those areas.

  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,821

    Are the last two days reliable? It looks like an implausibly sudden drop in Leicester and the other hotspots.
    No, data is reliable 3 days after the fact, the last two days is from incomplete data because of the way PHE upload it.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,295
    It's depressing how most of the internet is turning into a space where people are basically begging for money to support their business ideas.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,198
    England all settings deaths -

    image
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,076
    malcolmg said:

    He is also a shoogly bachle so looks even shorter due to poor posture
    Maybe that's the reason why people think he is taller than he is, because he stoops like somone who's over 6 foot 2.
  • Are the last two days reliable? It looks like an implausibly sudden drop in Leicester and the other hotspots.
    I'm pretty sure that the case data usually take a few days to update, which makes something of a mockery of this table. It would be more useful if the colour code boundaries were adjusted according to the average percentage of data recorded by a particular time.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,298

    Yes, it's so annoying to conservatives. When I lie awake every night listening to the National Anthem at 1am as BBC R4 closes, and then think ahead to the next episode of Antiques Roadshow, and all the other really subversive left-wing stuff on the BBC.

    In reality, the bulk of the BBC's output remains conservative with a small c, with a few bits of more radical, challenging programming. But I really don't get this notion that the BBC is a hotbed of lefties.
    It is surprising how many of these left- wing-firebrands from BBC News try their hand at politics, becoming candidates and MPs for...the Conservative Party!
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,804

    Where are these French people who are offended by the word Frog? I don't know any, and I have lived in France and spent a lot of time there. For that matter I don't know a single English person offended by the word Rosbif, which is exactly equivalent.

    The indignation about totally harmless informal words is pure Guardianista offence-mining.
    There's no indignation, Richard. It's more a style & taste matter. If you're reading a post by somebody active and well-respected on here about the economy - a serious post - do you expect to suddenly come across "the Frogs" or "the Krauts" in reference to France and Germany respectively? You don't. You just don't. So all I did was mention it in a benign "quality control" spirit.

    Not a big deal.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556

    Yes, it's so annoying to conservatives. When I lie awake every night listening to the National Anthem at 1am as BBC R4 closes, and then think ahead to the next episode of Antiques Roadshow, and all the other really subversive left-wing stuff on the BBC.

    In reality, the bulk of the BBC's output remains conservative with a small c, with a few bits of more radical, challenging programming. But I really don't get this notion that the BBC is a hotbed of lefties.
    That's because you are one...
  • eekeek Posts: 29,735

    You misunderstand the psychology. It's the arbitrary nature of it which would (rightly) be unpopular. Someone who moves house (or downsizes if you include roll-over relief) gets a £100K bill, someone who doesn't move house doesn't. Now of course many taxes are arbitrary - stamp duty is subject to the same criticism - but they aren't so draconian, amounting to confiscation, when the arbitrary axe falls. It's even more arbitrary if it's not index-linked.

    If you try to design round this by making it index-linked and including 100% rollover relief, then it won't raise all that much and it will just be a tax and therefore a discouragement on downsizing, which (as @Philip_Thompson has pointed out) is the opposite of a good policy outcome.

    Also in this discussion there has been an assumption that house prices always rise. Ain't so, as anyone who remembers the 1990s will testify. So would we also include a tax rebate if you make a capital loss?
    As I said this morning - if you are looking at a land value tax (say on top of council tax) the very first thing you would do is hint that CGT tax is coming to primary residences.

    Then when you replace the idea with a land value tax 0.3% a year looks a lot better than 30% on sale.
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    Andy_JS said:

    I can't afford to support the Guardian with a subscription. Sorry.
    No one is going to subscribe, to get content they can have for free, during a hideous economic crisis with millions unemployed.

    The pandemic has just demolished the Guardian's model. The more I think about it, the worse it is for them. They have made this their USP: "content is free". Moving to a paywall would look hypocritical, and, more importantly, probably won't work now anyway, as they are doing it so late in the day. They have to build a paywall from the ground up, during a Depression?

    Also, a paywall would make their journalism way less visible. And they'd lose millions of visitors.

    They are in a real bind. Could go under.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,636
    MaxPB said:

    I would at least want the carry forwards of capital losses to offset gains made in future years.
    That would be perfectly consistent with the rest of the tax system.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,257

    But if you're downsizing to retire, you'll have no future gains to offset it against - and it's your only asset in most cases. How is that fair or sensible?
    Well if you are downsizing it is no longer your only asset class, you will own cash which you should be investing back into the economy, and with average luck and risks taken will often lead to future cgt.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,567
    Andy_JS said:

    It's depressing how most of the internet is turning into a space where people are basically begging for money to support their business ideas.

    I have a great idea how we can stop that, but I need some start up funds to get it going...
    kinabalu said:

    If you're reading a post by somebody active and well-respected on here about the economy - a serious post -
    I don't know, this premise is already looking shakey to me. Active, well-respected and serious? We're only human.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,804

    Except that in reality Johnson is just an unfit blubbery shortarse.
    This is certainly emerging as the consensus position - but beware groupthink.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,723

    Absolutely, which is why he preferred to refer to the evils of the "Narrzee Party" rather than refer to the Germans themselves, whom I think he otherwise quite admired.
    There's also a reference in the "some chicken..." speech:
    "The tide has turned against the Hun..."

    Just a name for the Germans at war, as opposed to Germans, I suspect.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,938
    edited July 2020

    It is surprising how many of these left- wing-firebrands from BBC News try their hand at politics, becoming candidates and MPs for...the Conservative Party!
    BBC News has moved to the right on economo-political issues, and to the left on identity and representation issues. The non-news output is dominated nowadays by a commercial mindset, rather than the combined patrician and radical one of the BBC in arguably its most creative period.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,198
    edited July 2020

    I'm pretty sure that the case data usually take a few days to update, which makes something of a mockery of this table. It would be more useful if the colour code boundaries were adjusted according to the average percentage of data recorded by a particular time.
    With cases, most of the data is reported by the time 3 days have gone past - note that this is the publication date of the data, not the date at which PHE and other have and start using the data.

    So the last 2 columns are just there for completeness.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 29,849
    LadyG said:

    More media news. The Guardian's model is also collapsing. Very sad job losses.

    https://twitter.com/ben_bt/status/1283351434717782016?s=20

    They can't keep giving it away for free. It may be too late to go behind a paywall. Quite a dilemma

    Newspapers are so bloody expensive. I really enjoy what I read in the FT, but they want £33 a month and I can get a fair bit of it from their Twitter feed.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,298
    Scott_xP said:
    Khan doesn't know what he is talking about!

    Boris is clearly more effective, as there wasn't a single casualty from Covid-19 during either of Johnson's terms as Mayor.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    eek said:


    As I said this morning - if you are looking at a land value tax (say on top of council tax) the very first thing you would do is hint that CGT tax is coming to primary residences.

    Then when you replace the idea with a land value tax 0.3% a year looks a lot better than 30% on sale.

    You might be right, although it would require a degree of disciplined media planning and controlled messaging not obviously characteristic of this government.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,723
    rcs1000 said:

    Some anecdata for you all.

    As many of you know, I started an auto insurance company in Arizona. It's different from most insurers in that it is pure "pay per mile" (and it's liability / third party only for now). This means we get pretty good data on how much people are driving.

    In March, when there was a full lockdown, our customers drove about 480 miles. In April, 550. In June almost 600. This month, as Arizona has de facto locked down again, we might be below March's number - it could be as little as 450. Now, this is one state, and our sample size is small, and schools are now closed for the summer, and July 4 was a public holiday weekend. But miles driven are probably a fairly good proxy for economic activity. And the message from July is that - in Arizona at least - economic activity has come crashing back down again.

    (Oh yeah - please watch the explainer video, and share and click like. Thank you!)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmrRMK84GU4

    How are customer numbers (or is that proprietary information) ?
  • Gabs3Gabs3 Posts: 836
    This response seems to confirm that the UK is right to kick out Huawei. Why should we deeply enmesh ourselves to people that threaten such retaliation?

    https://amp.theguardian.com/technology/2020/jul/15/huawei-china-state-media-calls-for-painful-retaliation-over-uk-ban?__twitter_impression=true
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,257
    Andy_JS said:

    It's depressing how most of the internet is turning into a space where people are basically begging for money to support their business ideas.

    Most of the internet? Are you sure? My internet is very different to yours!
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,356

    Newspapers are so bloody expensive. I really enjoy what I read in the FT, but they want £33 a month and I can get a fair bit of it from their Twitter feed.
    Copy and paste the headline into google.

    You now owe me a beer. ;)
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,635
    LadyG said:

    More media news. The Guardian's model is also collapsing. Very sad job losses.

    https://twitter.com/ben_bt/status/1283351434717782016?s=20

    They can't keep giving it away for free. It may be too late to go behind a paywall. Quite a dilemma

    They made an operating profit last year. Cutting advertising staff and their events business makes sense given the pandemic. They are less dependent on physical sales than other papers I think.

    What will be key I suspect is how well their voluntary contributions hold up vs other companies compulsory charges.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,636

    England Regional Case data out -

    image

    Thanks Malmesbury.

    Have you forwarded a copy to Trip Adviser?
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221

    Yes, it's so annoying to conservatives. When I lie awake every night listening to the National Anthem at 1am as BBC R4 closes, and then think ahead to the next episode of Antiques Roadshow, and all the other really subversive left-wing stuff on the BBC.

    In reality, the bulk of the BBC's output remains conservative with a small c, with a few bits of more radical, challenging programming. But I really don't get this notion that the BBC is a hotbed of lefties.
    I know lots of people who work for the BBC. Every single one is left of centre. Some are very left of centre. Denying this is futile.

    And this was fine when the leftiness didn't intrude into the programming too much, and they had a bit of obviously rightwing/conservative stuff to balance it - eg Clarkson.

    But now the balance has gone and the Wokeism is becoming painfully obvious and intrusive - another £100m to make it *even more diverse*? Really?

  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,094

    England Regional Case data out -

    image

    Seventh day of no deaths of people who have tested positive for #coronavirus in Scotland
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,567
    Gabs3 said:

    This response seems to confirm that the UK is right to kick out Huawei. Why should we deeply enmesh ourselves to people that threaten such retaliation?

    https://amp.theguardian.com/technology/2020/jul/15/huawei-china-state-media-calls-for-painful-retaliation-over-uk-ban?__twitter_impression=true

    It's clearly a nonsense to get affronted when others shun their companies, whether or not it is a bad idea. They know what their government is.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,626
    edited July 2020
    It is surprising how many of these left- wing-firebrands from BBC News try their hand at politics, becoming candidates and MPs for...the Conservative Party!
    Care to name some please?
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,785
    kinabalu said:

    There's no indignation, Richard. It's more a style & taste matter. If you're reading a post by somebody active and well-respected on here about the economy - a serious post - do you expect to suddenly come across "the Frogs" or "the Krauts" in reference to France and Germany respectively? You don't. You just don't. So all I did was mention it in a benign "quality control" spirit.

    Not a big deal.
    Isn't this really about the people who use the word 'frog', rather than the word itself? Those who use it nowadays tend to be the same people who use the word 'kraut' - i.e. they use it in a derogatory, belittling, superior fashion, rather than as a humorous, kind Kiwi or Pommie-type nomenclature. I'll bet Mr Farage calls the French 'frogs', for example.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822

    With cases, most of the data is reported by the time 3 days have gone past - note that this is the publication date of the data, not the date at which PHE and other have and start using the data.

    So the last 2 columns are just there for completeness.
    To be clear, is the third from last column reasonably solid?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,723

    Except that in reality Johnson is just an unfit blubbery shortarse.
    So the actual Blob ?

  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    rkrkrk said:

    They made an operating profit last year. Cutting advertising staff and their events business makes sense given the pandemic. They are less dependent on physical sales than other papers I think.

    What will be key I suspect is how well their voluntary contributions hold up vs other companies compulsory charges.
    Well that's it, I think. The voluntary stuff is surely collapsing. Everyone is hoarding money. Their model is shot unless we bounce back quickly.

    If you go online you can find lots of people saying they are refusing to contribute - despite being Guardian readers - because the Guardian is "transphobic", or because it "hates Corbyn". Others are saying the opposite, it's too Woke or they abhor Owen Jones.

    It is being killed by its own ID politics.

    https://twitter.com/dok_botnik/status/1283377032513101824?s=20
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,785

    That's because you are one...
    No, I'm not a hotbed of lefties. Just one. But you beat me hands down on dumb partisanship every day.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,640

    You misunderstand the psychology. It's the arbitrary nature of it which would (rightly) be unpopular. Someone who moves house (or downsizes if you include roll-over relief) gets a £100K bill, someone who doesn't move house doesn't. Now of course many taxes are arbitrary - stamp duty is subject to the same criticism - but they aren't so draconian, amounting to confiscation, when the arbitrary axe falls. It's even more arbitrary if it's not index-linked.

    If you try to design round this by making it index-linked and including 100% rollover relief, then it won't raise all that much and it will just be a tax and therefore a discouragement on downsizing, which (as @Philip_Thompson has pointed out) is the opposite of a good policy outcome.

    Also in this discussion there has been an assumption that house prices always rise. Ain't so, as anyone who remembers the 1990s will testify. So would we also include a tax rebate if you make a capital loss?
    I don't really see how a rate of say 15% or 20% can be termed "confiscation".

    Yes, I think I would concur on integration into the more general CGT regime - though it gets messy for long-term held properties.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,198

    To be clear, is the third from last column reasonably solid?
    Yes
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,918
    edited July 2020

    But if you're downsizing to retire, you'll have no future gains to offset it against - and it's your only asset in most cases. How is that fair or sensible?
    It isn't.

    If we are going to have a property tax, why not one based on planning? The planners arbitrarily increase the value of land without the government taking any of the profits.

    It should be payable after a reasonable period to allow for development to take place.

    I know this has been mooted before. I don't suppose it would bring in as much money though.

  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,838
    kle4 said:

    It's clearly a nonsense to get affronted when others shun their companies, whether or not it is a bad idea. They know what their government is.
    Their 'wolf warrior' diplomacy is so inept.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,938
    edited July 2020



    It is surprising how many of these left- wing-firebrands from BBC News try their hand at politics, becoming candidates and MPs for...the Conservative Party!
    Care to name some please?>>


    Guto Harry, Evan Davis, Andrew Neil, James Harding, Robin Oakley - these are all part of one of the revolving doors, between the BBC and Tory media jobs.

    That's BBC News' turn to the right on economic and related issues, and another tranche of staff represent its turn more to the left on identity and cultural issues.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,735
    edited July 2020
    LadyG said:

    I know lots of people who work for the BBC. Every single one is left of centre. Some are very left of centre. Denying this is futile.

    And this was fine when the leftiness didn't intrude into the programming too much, and they had a bit of obviously rightwing/conservative stuff to balance it - eg Clarkson.

    But now the balance has gone and the Wokeism is becoming painfully obvious and intrusive - another £100m to make it *even more diverse*? Really?


    Don't forget that is £100m that only exists because from August 1st over 75's have to pay for a TV license...
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Isn't this really about the people who use the word 'frog', rather than the word itself? Those who use it nowadays tend to be the same people who use the word 'kraut' - i.e. they use it in a derogatory, belittling, superior fashion, rather than as a humorous, kind Kiwi or Pommie-type nomenclature. I'll bet Mr Farage calls the French 'frogs', for example.
    I don't think so, in my experience its normally used as friendly banter, no different to Pommie or being called a Scouser or other things.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,198
    edited July 2020
    Re case lag.

    As an illustration, I scraped this off the dashboard. What it shows, is the typical distribution in reporting. In this case the update for today.

    image
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,094
    LadyG said:

    I know lots of people who work for the BBC. Every single one is left of centre. Some are very left of centre. Denying this is futile.

    And this was fine when the leftiness didn't intrude into the programming too much, and they had a bit of obviously rightwing/conservative stuff to balance it - eg Clarkson.

    But now the balance has gone and the Wokeism is becoming painfully obvious and intrusive - another £100m to make it *even more diverse*? Really?

    They just don't know what to waste our money on.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822

    Yes
    Thanks
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221

    Their 'wolf warrior' diplomacy is so inept.
    It looks like China has over-reached. They may not care, of course
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,375
    The positive data test results clearly shows that Covid is disappearing fast in the UK.

    On the Construction economic front, the work continues to flow in. We have a bigger order book than we have ever had, and the work just keeps coming. We will need to employ at least 10 new engineers over the next couple of weeks. The problem is there aren't any available.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Dirty sleezy umm Greens on the slide?
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    The cesspit is quite quickly being cleaned up:

    https://twitter.com/jessicaelgot/status/1283422455613345794
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,298
    This is how I see it for the next few months, maybe until Christmas.

    If the figures are not reversed by this time next year, Starmer might as well hand the baton over to RLB to see how she gets on.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,509
    eek said:

    As I said this morning - if you are looking at a land value tax (say on top of council tax) the very first thing you would do is hint that CGT tax is coming to primary residences.

    Then when you replace the idea with a land value tax 0.3% a year looks a lot better than 30% on sale.
    Are the Govt hinting at the idea? It was me that floated it this morning (for my sins). If the Govt are as well I was unaware (Great minds or should that be idiots think alike)
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,626

    Care to name some please?>>


    Guto Harry, Evan Davis, Andrew Neil, James Harding, Robin Oakley - these are all part of one of the revolving doors, between the BBC and Tory media jobs.

    That's BBC News' turn to the right on economic and related issues, and another tranche of staff represent its turn more to the left on identity and cultural issues.
    Candidates and MP's? All of those?
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    I find this incredible. The government's handling of coronavirus has been one of the worst in the world. Clearly. We can see it in the data.

    And they are still cocking it up, eg the stupid belated confusion over masks.

    Meanwhile Starmer is popular, and presentable, and Labour policies are not much different to the Tories: welfare socialism.

    Yet Boris is 10 points ahead.

    ?!?
  • Candidates and MP's? All of those?
    No, but I did mention revolving doors rather than candidates, though.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,298

    Care to name some please?>>


    Guto Harry, Evan Davis, Andrew Neil, James Harding, Robin Oakley - these are all part of one of the revolving doors, between the BBC and Tory media jobs.

    That's BBC News' turn to the right on economic and related issues, and another tranche of staff represent its turn more to the left on identity and cultural issues.
    You missed out Craig Oliver, and there are a few regional news reporters from the South east and East Anglia, who have tried their hand too. Can't remember names.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,635



    It is surprising how many of these left- wing-firebrands from BBC News try their hand at politics, becoming candidates and MPs for...the Conservative Party!
    Care to name some please?

    Ruth Davidson, Michael Gove, Chris Grayling, maybe there are others?
  • FeersumEnjineeyaFeersumEnjineeya Posts: 4,761
    edited July 2020

    Re case lag.

    As an illustration, I scraped this off the dashboard. What it shows, is the typical distribution in reporting. In this case the update for today.

    image

    Thanks. A cumulative version (working backwards) of this graph would perhaps be even more useful for seeing how complete the data are as a function of time in the past.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,298
    rkrkrk said:

    Care to name some please?
    Ruth Davidson, Michael Gove, Chris Grayling, maybe there are others?


    Oh yeah.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,161
    Ideally a property tax would encourage people to downsize, since the trend over recent decades is towards less efficient use of our housing stock.

    CGT on principle residences does the opposite. Why would you want to make an existing problem worse?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,567
    LadyG said:

    I find this incredible. The government's handling of coronavirus has been one of the worst in the world. Clearly. We can see it in the data.

    And they are still cocking it up, eg the stupid belated confusion over masks.

    Meanwhile Starmer is popular, and presentable, and Labour policies are not much different to the Tories: welfare socialism.

    Yet Boris is 10 points ahead.

    ?!?
    People are still shell shocked for one. We're also still in the moment, so while some conclusions may well be able to be drawn, I assume most people are not thinking for certain we will end up among the very worst (though it looks likely). And of course most people have not suffered direct effects of the inevitable aftermath yet.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,478
    Mr. kle4, aye. This could get better or worse, and COVID-19 might be the warm-up for something worse.
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    kle4 said:

    People are still shell shocked for one. We're also still in the moment, so while some conclusions may well be able to be drawn, I assume most people are not thinking for certain we will end up among the very worst (though it looks likely). And of course most people have not suffered direct effects of the inevitable aftermath yet.
    Yes, quite possibly

    However I wonder if the Labour brand has been damaged so badly, by Corbyn, it is hitting a ceiling of support. And I likewise wonder if the Woke Frenzy is making people, quietly, a little bit more conservative
This discussion has been closed.