Undefined discussion subject.

Nigelb said:

Is This the Worst Year in Modern American History?
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/05/1968-and-2020-lessons-from-americas-worst-year-so-far/612415/

hard to beat late sixties

Mexicanpete said:

kinabalu said:

OldKingCole said:

kinabalu said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Philip_Thompson said:

IanB2 said:

coach said:

Mexicanpete said:

coach said:

Is this relevant to anything? Cummings is clearly unpopular (no surprise) but I can't see it has any bearing whatsoever on the next general election.

That will be fought almost exclusively on what's left of the economy and a berk driving to a castle will be forgotten by 99% of voters

That might be true, however the focus will be on the berk driving the country.

Correct, I read that some on here think Boris won't be around for long, hard to disagree.

The next few years are going to be painful, I can't think of anybody that I would like to see in charge - do you have any suggestions?

It is to the Tory party’s shame that Hunt was always the better choice.

Not in the circumstances. Hunt was a far worse choice.

You really think Hunt would have got a better (from our perspective) deal like Boris got?

You really think Hunt would have got an 80 seat majority.

Hunt isn't bad, certainly better than May but the time was not right for Hunt. And if Hunt had been elected then you'd have been saying how bad he is.

That is where you extreme right wing (and some less extreme) fanbois of Johnson get it so wrong. So many of you think the most important thing is the 80 seat majority, as though winning an election is the be all and end all. A fucking idiot with zero leadership skills could have beaten Corbyn at that point in time, and guess what, one did.

Margaret Thatcher would have told you that you cannot exercise power without winning it, but winning power without the ability to exercise it is totally pointless. Johnson does not know how to exercise power because he is a lazy lump with zero attention to detail. He is the worst PM in my lifetime by a long way. Clearly you have not noticed that he does not have a deal, and he is guiding the good ship UK onto the economic rocks of "no deal". That is not having a deal, it is just economic stupidity and irresponsibility of the first order. Why is it likely? Not because Johnson really thinks it is a good thing, but because he has so little experience of anything that he could not negotiate a discount at SCS!

Quite. Its going to be No Deal. There will be some triumphant BS in July. Then the stories come thick and fast about how "No Deal" actually required us to be ready, and we won't be as its physically impossible to set up the reams of red tape and army of pen pushers that Tories are so enamored of who will have to run the hard border. Nor will it be physically possible to set up the actual border - inspections facilities etc etc etc.

Then we get into 2021. More triumphant BS. Followed very quickly with "what now". We'll find out there is a reason that no other country has ever cut every trade deal it has in one go, and how to trade "WTO" when "WTO" isn't what the people saying "go WTO" thought it was. People clueless about Dover - Calais and GATT24 will be leading the UK in its unique in history trade experiment.

I'm sure it will all be a roaring success. Govey on TV saying that of course its good for British Business that the Tories have toed them up in red tape. Some other faceless cabinet plank saying that of course its good for British consumers that food standards have just been slashed and that there are now added weevils in our food.

I know many think this (that we will move to WTO) but I disagree. It would be bad for us and bad for the EU, therefore it will only happen if it would benefit Johnson politically, which I do not think it would. What he needs to do to avoid Leaver Loon grief is 2 things. (i) End Free Movement. (ii) Not agree to an extension.

So what I foresee is we agree a Deal that ends FM on 1st Jan 2021 but we retain frictionless access to the Single Market for another year (perhaps longer), paying a fee for the privilege. We use the additional time to negotiate the Final Deal and we end up with close alignment - a relatively Soft Brexit.

I sincerely hope you are right. However, while it will be bad for the EU it will be an example of Johnson's macho-ness, after the disappointments and disasters of coronavirus.

Move overnight from frictionless trade to WTO? - I simply cannot see it.

I have 2 USP positions on here atm and this is the 2nd.

1. Trump will be THRASHED in Nov.

2. WTO "No Deal" Brexit is a Not Happening event.

I am happy to be judged on these.

You could be very disappointed by the end of January next year, and you will still have to submit a tax return and pay HMRC!

- if Trump wins I'll have negative income for the year so no tax to pay.

kinabalu said:

RH1992 said:

kinabalu said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Philip_Thompson said:

IanB2 said:

coach said:

Mexicanpete said:

coach said:

Is this relevant to anything? Cummings is clearly unpopular (no surprise) but I can't see it has any bearing whatsoever on the next general election.

That will be fought almost exclusively on what's left of the economy and a berk driving to a castle will be forgotten by 99% of voters

That might be true, however the focus will be on the berk driving the country.

Correct, I read that some on here think Boris won't be around for long, hard to disagree.

The next few years are going to be painful, I can't think of anybody that I would like to see in charge - do you have any suggestions?

It is to the Tory party’s shame that Hunt was always the better choice.

Not in the circumstances. Hunt was a far worse choice.

You really think Hunt would have got a better (from our perspective) deal like Boris got?

You really think Hunt would have got an 80 seat majority.

Hunt isn't bad, certainly better than May but the time was not right for Hunt. And if Hunt had been elected then you'd have been saying how bad he is.

That is where you extreme right wing (and some less extreme) fanbois of Johnson get it so wrong. So many of you think the most important thing is the 80 seat majority, as though winning an election is the be all and end all. A fucking idiot with zero leadership skills could have beaten Corbyn at that point in time, and guess what, one did.

Margaret Thatcher would have told you that you cannot exercise power without winning it, but winning power without the ability to exercise it is totally pointless. Johnson does not know how to exercise power because he is a lazy lump with zero attention to detail. He is the worst PM in my lifetime by a long way. Clearly you have not noticed that he does not have a deal, and he is guiding the good ship UK onto the economic rocks of "no deal". That is not having a deal, it is just economic stupidity and irresponsibility of the first order. Why is it likely? Not because Johnson really thinks it is a good thing, but because he has so little experience of anything that he could not negotiate a discount at SCS!

Quite. Its going to be No Deal. There will be some triumphant BS in July. Then the stories come thick and fast about how "No Deal" actually required us to be ready, and we won't be as its physically impossible to set up the reams of red tape and army of pen pushers that Tories are so enamored of who will have to run the hard border. Nor will it be physically possible to set up the actual border - inspections facilities etc etc etc.

Then we get into 2021. More triumphant BS. Followed very quickly with "what now". We'll find out there is a reason that no other country has ever cut every trade deal it has in one go, and how to trade "WTO" when "WTO" isn't what the people saying "go WTO" thought it was. People clueless about Dover - Calais and GATT24 will be leading the UK in its unique in history trade experiment.

I'm sure it will all be a roaring success. Govey on TV saying that of course its good for British Business that the Tories have toed them up in red tape. Some other faceless cabinet plank saying that of course its good for British consumers that food standards have just been slashed and that there are now added weevils in our food.

I know many think this (that we will move to WTO) but I disagree. It would be bad for us and bad for the EU, therefore it will only happen if it would benefit Johnson politically, which I do not think it would. What he needs to do to avoid Leaver Loon grief is 2 things. (i) End Free Movement. (ii) Not agree to an extension.

So what I foresee is we agree a Deal that ends FM on 1st Jan 2021 but we retain frictionless access to the Single Market for another year (perhaps longer), paying a fee for the privilege. We use the additional time to negotiate the Final Deal and we end up with close alignment - a relatively Soft Brexit.

Wouldn't that be cherry picking by dividing FM with the benefits of the Single Market by staying nominally inside three of the four parts of it? I really don't think the EU would take that but I hope you're right.

It is cherry picking but it will be time limited and we will be paying a large sum of money for it.

It is possible I suppose. After all we paid £53m for one of Boris' foolhardy vanity projects and then just forgot we had paid.

Decided to have a play around with the Coronavirus stats on Worldometer.

First of all I calculated the % of cases in each country who have died for the top 30 countries by number of cases.

Belgium 16.2%
France 15.2%
Italy 14.3%
UK 14.0%
Netherlands 12.8%
Sweden 11.6%
Mexico 11.0%
Spain 9.5%
Ecuador 8.6%
Canada 8.0%
Switzerland 6.2%
USA 5.8%
Brazil 5.7%
China 5.6%
Iran 5.1%
Germany 4.7%
Portugal 4.4%
India 2.8%
Turkey 2.8%
Peru 2.7%
Pakistan 2.1%
South Africa 2.1%
Bangladesh 1.4%
Russia 1.2%
Chile 1.1%
UAE 0.8%
Saudi Arabia 0.6%
Belarus 0.6%
Qatar 0.1%
Singapore 0.1%

It's very noticeable that the top 5 countries on this list are all democracies, while the bottom 5 are dictatorships. It's fairly obvious which countries are lying through their teeth!

Secondly, I calculated the % of tests in each country that resulted in cases for the same countries:

Brazil 55%
Mexico 33%
Ecuador 33%
Qatar 26%
Chile 18%
Iran 16%
Sweden 16%
Peru 16%
Bangladesh 15%
France 14%
Netherlands 13%
Pakistan 13%
Saudi Arabia 11%
Singapore 11%
USA 10%
Turkey 8%
Belarus 8%
Switzerland 8%
Spain 7%
Belgium 7%
UK 6%
Italy 6%
Canada 6%
India 5%
Germany 5%
South Africa 5%
Portugal 4%
Russia 4%
UAE 2%
China - no data for tests

Most of the European countries are testing reasonably thoroughly now but in the South American countries the situation is probably even worse than it looks as they aren't testing enough.

GarethoftheVale2 said:

Decided to have a play around with the Coronavirus stats on Worldometer.

First of all I calculated the % of cases in each country who have died for the top 30 countries by number of cases.

Belgium 16.2%
France 15.2%
Italy 14.3%
UK 14.0%
Netherlands 12.8%
Sweden 11.6%
Mexico 11.0%
Spain 9.5%
Ecuador 8.6%
Canada 8.0%
Switzerland 6.2%
USA 5.8%
Brazil 5.7%
China 5.6%
Iran 5.1%
Germany 4.7%
Portugal 4.4%
India 2.8%
Turkey 2.8%
Peru 2.7%
Pakistan 2.1%
South Africa 2.1%
Bangladesh 1.4%
Russia 1.2%
Chile 1.1%
UAE 0.8%
Saudi Arabia 0.6%
Belarus 0.6%
Qatar 0.1%
Singapore 0.1%

It's very noticeable that the top 5 countries on this list are all democracies, while the bottom 5 are dictatorships. It's fairly obvious which countries are lying through their teeth!

Secondly, I calculated the % of tests in each country that resulted in cases for the same countries:

Brazil 55%
Mexico 33%
Ecuador 33%
Qatar 26%
Chile 18%
Iran 16%
Sweden 16%
Peru 16%
Bangladesh 15%
France 14%
Netherlands 13%
Pakistan 13%
Saudi Arabia 11%
Singapore 11%
USA 10%
Turkey 8%
Belarus 8%
Switzerland 8%
Spain 7%
Belgium 7%
UK 6%
Italy 6%
Canada 6%
India 5%
Germany 5%
South Africa 5%
Portugal 4%
Russia 4%
UAE 2%
China - no data for tests

Most of the European countries are testing reasonably thoroughly now but in the South American countries the situation is probably even worse than it looks as they aren't testing enough.

We have a Europa League spot on your first list!

P.S. Interesting data.

DjayM said:

A poll organised by a newspaper desperate to keep a (non) story going......

We seem to have even more new PB Tories today. I have counted a handful already. Has there been a mass release of Russian bots today?

SandyRentool said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

rpjs said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Philip_Thompson said:

IanB2 said:

coach said:

Mexicanpete said:

coach said:

Is this relevant to anything? Cummings is clearly unpopular (no surprise) but I can't see it has any bearing whatsoever on the next general election.

That will be fought almost exclusively on what's left of the economy and a berk driving to a castle will be forgotten by 99% of voters

That might be true, however the focus will be on the berk driving the country.

Correct, I read that some on here think Boris won't be around for long, hard to disagree.

The next few years are going to be painful, I can't think of anybody that I would like to see in charge - do you have any suggestions?

It is to the Tory party’s shame that Hunt was always the better choice.

Not in the circumstances. Hunt was a far worse choice.

You really think Hunt would have got a better (from our perspective) deal like Boris got?

You really think Hunt would have got an 80 seat majority.

Hunt isn't bad, certainly better than May but the time was not right for Hunt. And if Hunt had been elected then you'd have been saying how bad he is.

That is where you extreme right wing (and some less extreme) fanbois of Johnson get it so wrong. So many of you think the most important thing is the 80 seat majority, as though winning an election is the be all and end all. A fucking idiot with zero leadership skills could have beaten Corbyn at that point in time, and guess what, one did.

Margaret Thatcher would have told you that you cannot exercise power without winning it, but winning power without the ability to exercise it is totally pointless. Johnson does not know how to exercise power because he is a lazy lump with zero attention to detail. He is the worst PM in my lifetime by a long way. Clearly you have not noticed that he does not have a deal, and he is guiding the good ship UK onto the economic rocks of "no deal". That is not having a deal, it is just economic stupidity and irresponsibility of the first order. Why is it likely? Not because Johnson really thinks it is a good thing, but because he has so little experience of anything that he could not negotiate a discount at SCS!

Some other faceless cabinet plank saying that of course its good for British consumers that food standards have just been slashed and that there are now added weevils in our food.

"A good source of protein."

Some Quorn weevils for me, please

Quorn is on the Great Central Railway. Have you done the line?

Sadly no. I've vowed to polish off the National Rail network and Metrolink before doing the heritage lines I haven't done yet.

Once it's safe, of course!

Sunil_Prasannan said:

SandyRentool said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

rcs1000 said:

williamglenn said:

No sign of de-escalation.

https://twitter.com/AmerIndependent/status/1267456868143771650

Using troops that have no experience in crowd control for crowd control has never had any negative consequences, ever.

Sunil utters a cough that sounds suspiciously like Amritsar Bloody Sunday.

I hope that's not a persistent dry cough Dr P. How's your sense of smell?

Versatile

If and when you sneeze Sunil do you go ;'ah-choo-choo'?

Mexicanpete said:

DjayM said:

A poll organised by a newspaper desperate to keep a (non) story going......

We seem to have even more new PB Tories today. I have counted a handful already. Has there been a mass release of Russian bots today?

And a million more well on the way.

rcs1000 said:

DjayM said:

A poll organised by a newspaper desperate to keep a (non) story going......

The story is over.

But for those who think that has had absolutely no impact, look at this board.

There are a number of posters - loyal Conservative voters and in some case long-term members - who are absolutely livid. Not livid about the press, or the government's media strategy, but that there was not even an apology.

No offence but this site is one of the least representative places on planet earth.

GarethoftheVale2 said:

Decided to have a play around with the Coronavirus stats on Worldometer.

First of all I calculated the % of cases in each country who have died for the top 30 countries by number of cases.

Belgium 16.2%
France 15.2%
Italy 14.3%
UK 14.0%
Netherlands 12.8%
Sweden 11.6%
Mexico 11.0%
Spain 9.5%
Ecuador 8.6%
Canada 8.0%
Switzerland 6.2%
USA 5.8%
Brazil 5.7%
China 5.6%
Iran 5.1%
Germany 4.7%
Portugal 4.4%
India 2.8%
Turkey 2.8%
Peru 2.7%
Pakistan 2.1%
South Africa 2.1%
Bangladesh 1.4%
Russia 1.2%
Chile 1.1%
UAE 0.8%
Saudi Arabia 0.6%
Belarus 0.6%
Qatar 0.1%
Singapore 0.1%

It's very noticeable that the top 5 countries on this list are all democracies, while the bottom 5 are dictatorships. It's fairly obvious which countries are lying through their teeth!

Secondly, I calculated the % of tests in each country that resulted in cases for the same countries:

Brazil 55%
Mexico 33%
Ecuador 33%
Qatar 26%
Chile 18%
Iran 16%
Sweden 16%
Peru 16%
Bangladesh 15%
France 14%
Netherlands 13%
Pakistan 13%
Saudi Arabia 11%
Singapore 11%
USA 10%
Turkey 8%
Belarus 8%
Switzerland 8%
Spain 7%
Belgium 7%
UK 6%
Italy 6%
Canada 6%
India 5%
Germany 5%
South Africa 5%
Portugal 4%
Russia 4%
UAE 2%
China - no data for tests

Most of the European countries are testing reasonably thoroughly now but in the South American countries the situation is probably even worse than it looks as they aren't testing enough.

Except those dictatorships probably have a better estimate of the mortality rate

contrarian said:

Shame on those Italian doctors for letting the cat out of the bag by saying the virus's power had declined dramatically in Italy, when experts everywhere were looking forward to controlling lives of ordinarry folk for a lot longer.

Where we are now reminds me of that old kids party game where everybody is shown a series of obstacles they will have to negotiate blindfolded.

The obstacles are then removed and people are stepping over thin air to general hilarity.

Our ICU staff are not seeing that here, nor are the ECMO team.

By all means argue that people should die to keep the economic and social wheels turning. I am not averse to that sort of cost benefit analysis*. Pretending that this is not still a very dangerous infection is not on though.

*advocates do tend to picture the costs being for other people and benefits to themselves, of course!

Test post...

Nigel_Foremain said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

kinabalu said:

tlg86 said:

Andy_JS said:

tlg86 said:

I'm watching the 2005 general election, which was the first one that I watched live at the time. My one abiding memory of the night was Paxman's interview with George Galloway. At the time I thought Paxman was out of order and having watched it again it was worse than I remember. In 1997 and 2001 Paxman was excellent, but he was really poor in 2005.

I remember that as well. The phrase he kept repeating IIRC was "Are you proud of having got rid of one of the very few ethnic minority women in parliament?". Galloway replied by saying "Aren't you going to congratulate me on having just been elected as MP for Bethnal Green?"

I'm no fan of Galloway, but he's a very effective political operator. What I had forgotten was that he went for the returning officer in his acceptance speech.

Busted flush now. The 'Gorgeous George' brand is in terminal decline.

Mouthy misogynist.

Galloway is a brilliant orator but a thoroughly vile human being. Of course he was right about Iraq.

Was his motivation in being "right" about Iraq perhaps because he wished to salute Saddam's "strength, courage and indefatigability"?

Lots of people knew the Iraq war was BS. Galloway, Corbyn and others on the left are always on the lookout for Western imperialism, so when you get a situation of actual western imperialism in action it's not surprising that they end up on the right side of the argument.

rcs1000 said:

brokenwheel said:

rcs1000 said:

DjayM said:

A poll organised by a newspaper desperate to keep a (non) story going......

The story is over.

But for those who think that has had absolutely no impact, look at this board.

There are a number of posters - loyal Conservative voters and in some case long-term members - who are absolutely livid. Not livid about the press, or the government's media strategy, but that there was not even an apology.

No offence but this place is one of the least representative places on planet earth.

You make my point.

This board contains more tribal people than the population as a whole. And there are still a bunch of people - like myself or @MaxPB or @Big_G_NorthWales or @DavidL - who think Dominic Cummings behaved poorly.

I didn't ask for a resignation. I just asked for an acknowledgement that the rules had been broken, and that he was sorry about that.

There are millions of people who made enormous sacrifices to follow government guidelines. Some, like @GideonWise looked after kids in small flats while having CV-19. Others couldn't see loved ones on their death beds.

Some of those people, who chose to obey the rules at great personal cost, are angry.

And I find it staggering that anyone would doubt that there are people who are justifiably angry that the protagonist can't even be bothered to apologise.

Justifiably sure, worthwhile no.

(Angry is generally pointless nonsense)

rcs1000 said:

brokenwheel said:

rcs1000 said:

DjayM said:

A poll organised by a newspaper desperate to keep a (non) story going......

The story is over.

But for those who think that has had absolutely no impact, look at this board.

There are a number of posters - loyal Conservative voters and in some case long-term members - who are absolutely livid. Not livid about the press, or the government's media strategy, but that there was not even an apology.

No offence but this place is one of the least representative places on planet earth.

You make my point.

This board contains more tribal people than the population as a whole. And there are still a bunch of people - like myself or @MaxPB or @Big_G_NorthWales or @DavidL - who think Dominic Cummings behaved poorly.

I didn't ask for a resignation. I just asked for an acknowledgement that the rules had been broken, and that he was sorry about that.

There are millions of people who made enormous sacrifices to follow government guidelines. Some, like @GideonWise looked after kids in small flats while having CV-19. Others couldn't see loved ones on their death beds.

Some of those people, who chose to obey the rules at great personal cost, are angry.

And I find it staggering that anyone would doubt that there are people who are justifiably angry that the protagonist can't even be bothered to apologise.

I avoid social media like the plague (ha ha) but I took a look round what some of my real friends (not random followers on twitter) were saying on places like Facebook, etc, at the height of the media interest.

People who never talk about politics. Shire Tories who dutifully trot out to vote Conservative once every five years but otherwise never talk politics.

And they were furious about it. I mean really furious about it.

Now, I still think with the sh*tstorm that the world economy is about to go through this will all be forgotten about in six months. But I can't help but wonder if this will become one of those issues that comes back to haunt the party on doorsteps in 2024.

The Brexit or Momentum ultras live in their bubbles and like to think they won the argument regardless of the evidence. We are seeing that now with Cummings.

Two cheeks of the same arse.

rcs1000 said:

brokenwheel said:

rcs1000 said:

DjayM said:

A poll organised by a newspaper desperate to keep a (non) story going......

The story is over.

But for those who think that has had absolutely no impact, look at this board.

There are a number of posters - loyal Conservative voters and in some case long-term members - who are absolutely livid. Not livid about the press, or the government's media strategy, but that there was not even an apology.

No offence but this place is one of the least representative places on planet earth.

You make my point.

This board contains more tribal people than the population as a whole. And there are still a bunch of people - like myself or @MaxPB or @Big_G_NorthWales or @DavidL - who think Dominic Cummings behaved poorly.

I didn't ask for a resignation. I just asked for an acknowledgement that the rules had been broken, and that he was sorry about that.

There are millions of people who made enormous sacrifices to follow government guidelines. Some, like @GideonWise looked after kids in small flats while having CV-19. Others couldn't see loved ones on their death beds.

Some of those people, who chose to obey the rules at great personal cost, are angry.

And I find it staggering that anyone would doubt that there are people who are justifiably angry that the protagonist can't even be bothered to apologise.

Actually I was thinking far more that the Tories on this board tend to be a lot more towards the liberal end rather than conservative. If I remember correctly all the people you mention couldn't countenance Boris (or Cummings for that matter) even before he became leader, and he's mostly a liberal tory.

Of course, the story has had some impact. Major and long-lasting? I doubt it.

Andy_JS said:

Does biomass count as renewable energy?

https://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk

Yes, as by definition you can regrow plant matter.

Omnium said:

rcs1000 said:

brokenwheel said:

rcs1000 said:

DjayM said:

A poll organised by a newspaper desperate to keep a (non) story going......

The story is over.

But for those who think that has had absolutely no impact, look at this board.

There are a number of posters - loyal Conservative voters and in some case long-term members - who are absolutely livid. Not livid about the press, or the government's media strategy, but that there was not even an apology.

No offence but this place is one of the least representative places on planet earth.

You make my point.

This board contains more tribal people than the population as a whole. And there are still a bunch of people - like myself or @MaxPB or @Big_G_NorthWales or @DavidL - who think Dominic Cummings behaved poorly.

I didn't ask for a resignation. I just asked for an acknowledgement that the rules had been broken, and that he was sorry about that.

There are millions of people who made enormous sacrifices to follow government guidelines. Some, like @GideonWise looked after kids in small flats while having CV-19. Others couldn't see loved ones on their death beds.

Some of those people, who chose to obey the rules at great personal cost, are angry.

And I find it staggering that anyone would doubt that there are people who are justifiably angry that the protagonist can't even be bothered to apologise.

Justifiably sure, worthwhile no.

(Angry is generally pointless nonsense)

There's a strand of thinking that boils down to "we won on 12/12/19, we can do whatever we damm well please for the next 4 - 5 years, fnurr, fnurr". And in a purely technical sense, that has been shown to be true.

What's interesting is that virtually no over government in history has acted like this. They've all had oppositions who have been mean to them, because that's the job of opposition. They've all had people who have resigned, not because they have broken the letter of the law, but because public opinion has found them a bit off.

This government has decided to do things differently. We saw it with prorogation, we're seeing it now. It's either a stroke of genius, or it's madness. I know what I think, but we'll have to see how it plays out over years.

Interesting article in the FT about how the government's view of the situation is changing from a health crisis to an economic crisis.

NYPD’s Terrorism Official Says Unnamed Groups Planned Protest Violence in Advance

https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/nypds-terrorism-chief-says-unnamed-groups-planned-protest-violence-in-advance/2440722/?amp&__twitter_impression=true

All the useful idiots tweeting Churchill was an anti-fascist. So was Stalin, and his political ideology is much closer to those behind this activity.

Omnium said:

rcs1000 said:

brokenwheel said:

rcs1000 said:

DjayM said:

A poll organised by a newspaper desperate to keep a (non) story going......

The story is over.

But for those who think that has had absolutely no impact, look at this board.

There are a number of posters - loyal Conservative voters and in some case long-term members - who are absolutely livid. Not livid about the press, or the government's media strategy, but that there was not even an apology.

No offence but this place is one of the least representative places on planet earth.

You make my point.

This board contains more tribal people than the population as a whole. And there are still a bunch of people - like myself or @MaxPB or @Big_G_NorthWales or @DavidL - who think Dominic Cummings behaved poorly.

I didn't ask for a resignation. I just asked for an acknowledgement that the rules had been broken, and that he was sorry about that.

There are millions of people who made enormous sacrifices to follow government guidelines. Some, like @GideonWise looked after kids in small flats while having CV-19. Others couldn't see loved ones on their death beds.

Some of those people, who chose to obey the rules at great personal cost, are angry.

And I find it staggering that anyone would doubt that there are people who are justifiably angry that the protagonist can't even be bothered to apologise.

Justifiably sure, worthwhile no.

(Angry is generally pointless nonsense)

It's not pointless if it makes a significant number of folk say I regret voting/will never vote for these cnuts.

contrarian said:

Interesting article in the FT about how the government's view of the situation is changing from a health crisis to an economic crisis.

Haven't read the article but the change of format at the 5pm briefing today whereby Hancock rather than a scientist read out the daily stats might be indicative of this process. It subtly sends out a signal that the health crisis is lessening.

Philip_Thompson said:

brokenwheel said:

rcs1000 said:

brokenwheel said:

rcs1000 said:

DjayM said:

A poll organised by a newspaper desperate to keep a (non) story going......

The story is over.

But for those who think that has had absolutely no impact, look at this board.

There are a number of posters - loyal Conservative voters and in some case long-term members - who are absolutely livid. Not livid about the press, or the government's media strategy, but that there was not even an apology.

No offence but this place is one of the least representative places on planet earth.

You make my point.

This board contains more tribal people than the population as a whole. And there are still a bunch of people - like myself or @MaxPB or @Big_G_NorthWales or @DavidL - who think Dominic Cummings behaved poorly.

I didn't ask for a resignation. I just asked for an acknowledgement that the rules had been broken, and that he was sorry about that.

There are millions of people who made enormous sacrifices to follow government guidelines. Some, like @GideonWise looked after kids in small flats while having CV-19. Others couldn't see loved ones on their death beds.

Some of those people, who chose to obey the rules at great personal cost, are angry.

And I find it staggering that anyone would doubt that there are people who are justifiably angry that the protagonist can't even be bothered to apologise.

Actually I was thinking far more that the Tories on this board tend to be a lot more towards the liberal end rather than conservative. If I remember correctly all the people you mention couldn't countenance Boris (or Cummings for that matter) even before he became leader, and he's mostly a liberal tory.

Of course, the story has had some impact. Major and long-lasting? I doubt it.

Indeed very few conservative Conservatives on this site. I can't think of a single Leave voting conservative Conservative on this site.

Charles, Mortimer, Alanbrooke, Casino, BluestBlue, even Sunil to name just six all voted Leave in 2016 and Tory in 2019.

As did you

More on this:

"Coronavirus 'no longer clinically exists in Italy', top doctor says

A study conducted at a hospital in Milan found that the number of viruses present in people who tested positive has decreased."

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-no-longer-clinically-exists-in-italy-top-doctor-says-11998608

NerysHughes said:

Foxy said:

contrarian said:

Shame on those Italian doctors for letting the cat out of the bag by saying the virus's power had declined dramatically in Italy, when experts everywhere were looking forward to controlling lives of ordinarry folk for a lot longer.

Where we are now reminds me of that old kids party game where everybody is shown a series of obstacles they will have to negotiate blindfolded.

The obstacles are then removed and people are stepping over thin air to general hilarity.

Our ICU staff are not seeing that here, nor are the ECMO team.

By all means argue that people should die to keep the economic and social wheels turning. I am not averse to that sort of cost benefit analysis*. Pretending that this is not still a very dangerous infection is not on though.

*advocates do tend to picture the costs being for other people and benefits to themselves, of course!

I must admit I would not like to be in your area, your report that you had the same number of Covid patients on the 1st May as the 31st May when the national total in hospital fell from 16,000 to 7,500 in that same period would be a worry.

It is down slightly now from 129 on 6 May to 120 now, plus 75 suspects. The numbers in ICU are down. It may be that we are lowering the threshold for admission, and I think it appropriate if we do.

RobD said:

Mexicanpete said:

DjayM said:

A poll organised by a newspaper desperate to keep a (non) story going......

We seem to have even more new PB Tories today. I have counted a handful already. Has there been a mass release of Russian bots today?

And a million more well on the way.

Nah, the amount of programming needed before they can generate comments even halfway up to the standard of PB is prodigious. HY shows what can happen if you rush them out too soon.

Jonathan said:

The heat/light quotient on PB is pretty low at the moment. A bunch of nutty right wingers arguing the toss that Cummingsgate didn’t matter and Trump is anything other than a total catastrophe.

You are welcome to contribute something enlightening.

HYUFD said:

Philip_Thompson said:

brokenwheel said:

rcs1000 said:

brokenwheel said:

rcs1000 said:

DjayM said:

A poll organised by a newspaper desperate to keep a (non) story going......

The story is over.

But for those who think that has had absolutely no impact, look at this board.

There are a number of posters - loyal Conservative voters and in some case long-term members - who are absolutely livid. Not livid about the press, or the government's media strategy, but that there was not even an apology.

No offence but this place is one of the least representative places on planet earth.

You make my point.

This board contains more tribal people than the population as a whole. And there are still a bunch of people - like myself or @MaxPB or @Big_G_NorthWales or @DavidL - who think Dominic Cummings behaved poorly.

I didn't ask for a resignation. I just asked for an acknowledgement that the rules had been broken, and that he was sorry about that.

There are millions of people who made enormous sacrifices to follow government guidelines. Some, like @GideonWise looked after kids in small flats while having CV-19. Others couldn't see loved ones on their death beds.

Some of those people, who chose to obey the rules at great personal cost, are angry.

And I find it staggering that anyone would doubt that there are people who are justifiably angry that the protagonist can't even be bothered to apologise.

Actually I was thinking far more that the Tories on this board tend to be a lot more towards the liberal end rather than conservative. If I remember correctly all the people you mention couldn't countenance Boris (or Cummings for that matter) even before he became leader, and he's mostly a liberal tory.

Of course, the story has had some impact. Major and long-lasting? I doubt it.

Indeed very few conservative Conservatives on this site. I can't think of a single Leave voting conservative Conservative on this site.

Charles, Mortimer, Alanbrooke, Casino, BluestBlue, even Sunil to name just six all voted Leave in 2016 and Tory in 2019.

As did you

The "Blue" claims to have voted Remain.

And a philosophical question for you -

If there is no such thing as an illegal war, can there ever be a legal one?

https://twitter.com/guardian/status/1267457305886556160

NerysHughes said:

Foxy said:

contrarian said:

Shame on those Italian doctors for letting the cat out of the bag by saying the virus's power had declined dramatically in Italy, when experts everywhere were looking forward to controlling lives of ordinarry folk for a lot longer.

Where we are now reminds me of that old kids party game where everybody is shown a series of obstacles they will have to negotiate blindfolded.

The obstacles are then removed and people are stepping over thin air to general hilarity.

Our ICU staff are not seeing that here, nor are the ECMO team.

By all means argue that people should die to keep the economic and social wheels turning. I am not averse to that sort of cost benefit analysis*. Pretending that this is not still a very dangerous infection is not on though.

*advocates do tend to picture the costs being for other people and benefits to themselves, of course!

I must admit I would not like to be in your area, your report that you had the same number of Covid patients on the 1st May as the 31st May when the national total in hospital fell from 16,000 to 7,500 in that same period would be a worry.

Yes. There are some extraordinary local anomalies (eg Leicestershire, for some reason). But the national and international trend is strongly downward.

This and the new Italian evidence would support the theory that Covid is a flat track bully.

Alphabet_Soup said:

GarethoftheVale2 said:

Decided to have a play around with the Coronavirus stats on Worldometer.

First of all I calculated the % of cases in each country who have died for the top 30 countries by number of cases.

Belgium 16.2%
France 15.2%
Italy 14.3%
UK 14.0%
Netherlands 12.8%
Sweden 11.6%
Mexico 11.0%
Spain 9.5%
Ecuador 8.6%
Canada 8.0%
Switzerland 6.2%
USA 5.8%
Brazil 5.7%
China 5.6%
Iran 5.1%
Germany 4.7%
Portugal 4.4%
India 2.8%
Turkey 2.8%
Peru 2.7%
Pakistan 2.1%
South Africa 2.1%
Bangladesh 1.4%
Russia 1.2%
Chile 1.1%
UAE 0.8%
Saudi Arabia 0.6%
Belarus 0.6%
Qatar 0.1%
Singapore 0.1%

It's very noticeable that the top 5 countries on this list are all democracies, while the bottom 5 are dictatorships. It's fairly obvious which countries are lying through their teeth!

Secondly, I calculated the % of tests in each country that resulted in cases for the same countries:

Brazil 55%
Mexico 33%
Ecuador 33%
Qatar 26%
Chile 18%
Iran 16%
Sweden 16%
Peru 16%
Bangladesh 15%
France 14%
Netherlands 13%
Pakistan 13%
Saudi Arabia 11%
Singapore 11%
USA 10%
Turkey 8%
Belarus 8%
Switzerland 8%
Spain 7%
Belgium 7%
UK 6%
Italy 6%
Canada 6%
India 5%
Germany 5%
South Africa 5%
Portugal 4%
Russia 4%
UAE 2%
China - no data for tests

Most of the European countries are testing reasonably thoroughly now but in the South American countries the situation is probably even worse than it looks as they aren't testing enough.

It could be that the dictatorships are lying through their teeth. Or it could be that their populations are instinctively more obedient. We may have to wait for the dictators to be overthrown before the truth finally emerges.

Every time a dictatorship is overthrown, the following is discovered -

1) They were lying through their teeth about nearly everything.
2) The population kept their mouths shut and waved the flags out of fear.
3) Christopher Hitchens was right - people read 1984 and wondered how he had so accurately described parts of their lives.
4) The Western "intellectual" backers of the regime* in question move on to their next pet.

*LSE and Gaddafi, for example.

squareroot2 said:

IanB2 said:

Philip_Thompson said:

brokenwheel said:

rcs1000 said:

brokenwheel said:

rcs1000 said:

DjayM said:

A poll organised by a newspaper desperate to keep a (non) story going......

The story is over.

But for those who think that has had absolutely no impact, look at this board.

There are a number of posters - loyal Conservative voters and in some case long-term members - who are absolutely livid. Not livid about the press, or the government's media strategy, but that there was not even an apology.

No offence but this place is one of the least representative places on planet earth.

You make my point.

This board contains more tribal people than the population as a whole. And there are still a bunch of people - like myself or @MaxPB or @Big_G_NorthWales or @DavidL - who think Dominic Cummings behaved poorly.

I didn't ask for a resignation. I just asked for an acknowledgement that the rules had been broken, and that he was sorry about that.

There are millions of people who made enormous sacrifices to follow government guidelines. Some, like @GideonWise looked after kids in small flats while having CV-19. Others couldn't see loved ones on their death beds.

Some of those people, who chose to obey the rules at great personal cost, are angry.

And I find it staggering that anyone would doubt that there are people who are justifiably angry that the protagonist can't even be bothered to apologise.

Actually I was thinking far more that the Tories on this board tend to be a lot more towards the liberal end rather than conservative. If I remember correctly all the people you mention couldn't countenance Boris (or Cummings for that matter) even before he became leader, and he's mostly a liberal tory.

Of course, the story has had some impact. Major and long-lasting? I doubt it.

Indeed very few conservative Conservatives on this site. I can't think of a single Leave voting conservative Conservative on this site.

A lot more of them would have had the chance, had they been resident in the country at the time.

The sensible Torues voted remain but accepted the result when it went the other way. Move on.

On the other side how many PBers voted Remain in 2016 and Labour in 2019?

HYUFD said:

Alistair said:

Andy_JS said:

Sean_F said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Philip_Thompson said:

IanB2 said:

coach said:

Mexicanpete said:

coach said:

Is this relevant to anything? Cummings is clearly unpopular (no surprise) but I can't see it has any bearing whatsoever on the next general election.

That will be fought almost exclusively on what's left of the economy and a berk driving to a castle will be forgotten by 99% of voters

That might be true, however the focus will be on the berk driving the country.

Correct, I read that some on here think Boris won't be around for long, hard to disagree.

The next few years are going to be painful, I can't think of anybody that I would like to see in charge - do you have any suggestions?

It is to the Tory party’s shame that Hunt was always the better choice.

Not in the circumstances. Hunt was a far worse choice.

You really think Hunt would have got a better (from our perspective) deal like Boris got?

You really think Hunt would have got an 80 seat majority.

Hunt isn't bad, certainly better than May but the time was not right for Hunt. And if Hunt had been elected then you'd have been saying how bad he is.

That is where you extreme right wing (and some less extreme) fanbois of Johnson get it so wrong. So many of !

No we were led by a fucking idiot with zero leadership skills and the result was she threw away Cameron's majority.

Here we go again. Obsession with winning elections without the thought as to what to do with the winnings. TMay was quite poor, but trust me, as someone who has spent most of my adult career assessing leadership capability, she has much more leadership ability than Johnson. I would not put Johnson in executive leadership of a Parish Council! If I had to order leadership ability, by observable objective measure of all the PMs in my recollection (I can just about remember Wilson), Thatcher would clearly be top and Johnson would be in very poor last place with TMay and Brown tied on quite a few more points above him.

Every PM is the worst Prime Minister ever, when they are in office.

It's way too early to judge what Johnson is like.

That's also true for Republican presidents in the United States.

Lets check the most recent Republican Presidents

Nixon - Criminal
Reagan - Promoted criminal members of the Nixon administration, engaged in illegal central American wars
Bush Snr - Covered up Reagan's crimes
Bush Jr - Gave positions to all of dad's mates who helped with the cover up of Reagan's crimes, engaged in devastating destabilisation of the world with disastrous. murderous invasion of the middle east.
Trump - doing ok so far.

So with the exception of Trump you are spot on.

There is no such thing as an illegal war, the president has the power to deploy military force for 60 days without Congressional approval and indefinitely with it.

There may be military actions taken without UN approval but only Bush Snr in the 1990 Gulf War and Obama in Libya in 2011 of recent US presidents got that UN approval

Sorry should have chucked in "proxy" there for Regan. Congress made it illegal for Regan to fund the Contras.

MarqueeMark said:

JohnO said:

Philip_Thompson said:

brokenwheel said:

rcs1000 said:

brokenwheel said:

rcs1000 said:

DjayM said:

A poll organised by a newspaper desperate to keep a (non) story going......

The story is over.

But for those who think that has had absolutely no impact, look at this board.

There are a number of posters - loyal Conservative voters and in some case long-term members - who are absolutely livid. Not livid about the press, or the government's media strategy, but that there was not even an apology.

No offence but this place is one of the least representative places on planet earth.

You make my point.

This board contains more tribal people than the population as a whole. And there are still a bunch of people - like myself or @MaxPB or @Big_G_NorthWales or @DavidL - who think Dominic Cummings behaved poorly.

I didn't ask for a resignation. I just asked for an acknowledgement that the rules had been broken, and that he was sorry about that.

There are millions of people who made enormous sacrifices to follow government guidelines. Some, like @GideonWise looked after kids in small flats while having CV-19. Others couldn't see loved ones on their death beds.

Some of those people, who chose to obey the rules at great personal cost, are angry.

And I find it staggering that anyone would doubt that there are people who are justifiably angry that the protagonist can't even be bothered to apologise.

Actually I was thinking far more that the Tories on this board tend to be a lot more towards the liberal end rather than conservative. If I remember correctly all the people you mention couldn't countenance Boris (or Cummings for that matter) even before he became leader, and he's mostly a liberal tory.

Of course, the story has had some impact. Major and long-lasting? I doubt it.

Indeed very few conservative Conservatives on this site. I can't think of a single Leave voting conservative Conservative on this site.

Sean Fear. And didn’t Max (not a party member since last week) also voted leave? And GIN too? And of course Casino!!

*Marquee Mark waves*

I had you down as a Corbynite.

JohnO said:

Philip_Thompson said:

brokenwheel said:

rcs1000 said:

brokenwheel said:

rcs1000 said:

DjayM said:

A poll organised by a newspaper desperate to keep a (non) story going......

The story is over.

But for those who think that has had absolutely no impact, look at this board.

There are a number of posters - loyal Conservative voters and in some case long-term members - who are absolutely livid. Not livid about the press, or the government's media strategy, but that there was not even an apology.

No offence but this place is one of the least representative places on planet earth.

You make my point.

This board contains more tribal people than the population as a whole. And there are still a bunch of people - like myself or @MaxPB or @Big_G_NorthWales or @DavidL - who think Dominic Cummings behaved poorly.

I didn't ask for a resignation. I just asked for an acknowledgement that the rules had been broken, and that he was sorry about that.

There are millions of people who made enormous sacrifices to follow government guidelines. Some, like @GideonWise looked after kids in small flats while having CV-19. Others couldn't see loved ones on their death beds.

Some of those people, who chose to obey the rules at great personal cost, are angry.

And I find it staggering that anyone would doubt that there are people who are justifiably angry that the protagonist can't even be bothered to apologise.

Actually I was thinking far more that the Tories on this board tend to be a lot more towards the liberal end rather than conservative. If I remember correctly all the people you mention couldn't countenance Boris (or Cummings for that matter) even before he became leader, and he's mostly a liberal tory.

Of course, the story has had some impact. Major and long-lasting? I doubt it.

Indeed very few conservative Conservatives on this site. I can't think of a single Leave voting conservative Conservative on this site.

Sean Fear. And didn’t Max (not a party member since last week) also voted leave? And GIN too? And of course Casino!!

Yes, I campaigned and voted for Leave and and then Boris at the GE. To say that I'm some kind of liberal or globalist is misrepresentation of my position.

HYUFD said:

Philip_Thompson said:

brokenwheel said:

rcs1000 said:

brokenwheel said:

rcs1000 said:

DjayM said:

A poll organised by a newspaper desperate to keep a (non) story going......

The story is over.

But for those who think that has had absolutely no impact, look at this board.

There are a number of posters - loyal Conservative voters and in some case long-term members - who are absolutely livid. Not livid about the press, or the government's media strategy, but that there was not even an apology.

No offence but this place is one of the least representative places on planet earth.

You make my point.

This board contains more tribal people than the population as a whole. And there are still a bunch of people - like myself or @MaxPB or @Big_G_NorthWales or @DavidL - who think Dominic Cummings behaved poorly.

I didn't ask for a resignation. I just asked for an acknowledgement that the rules had been broken, and that he was sorry about that.

There are millions of people who made enormous sacrifices to follow government guidelines. Some, like @GideonWise looked after kids in small flats while having CV-19. Others couldn't see loved ones on their death beds.

Some of those people, who chose to obey the rules at great personal cost, are angry.

And I find it staggering that anyone would doubt that there are people who are justifiably angry that the protagonist can't even be bothered to apologise.

Actually I was thinking far more that the Tories on this board tend to be a lot more towards the liberal end rather than conservative. If I remember correctly all the people you mention couldn't countenance Boris (or Cummings for that matter) even before he became leader, and he's mostly a liberal tory.

Of course, the story has had some impact. Major and long-lasting? I doubt it.

Indeed very few conservative Conservatives on this site. I can't think of a single Leave voting conservative Conservative on this site.

Charles, Mortimer, Alanbrooke, Casino, BluestBlue, even Sunil to name just six all voted Leave in 2016 and Tory in 2019.

As did you

I'm not a conservative Conservative, I'm a liberal Conservative.

I'm not sure if any of those six would identify as a conservative Conservative.

Philip_Thompson said:

HYUFD said:

Philip_Thompson said:

brokenwheel said:

rcs1000 said:

brokenwheel said:

rcs1000 said:

DjayM said:

A poll organised by a newspaper desperate to keep a (non) story going......

The story is over.

But for those who think that has had absolutely no impact, look at this board.

There are a number of posters - loyal Conservative voters and in some case long-term members - who are absolutely livid. Not livid about the press, or the government's media strategy, but that there was not even an apology.

No offence but this place is one of the least representative places on planet earth.

You make my point.

This board contains more tribal people than the population as a whole. And there are still a bunch of people - like myself or @MaxPB or @Big_G_NorthWales or @DavidL - who think Dominic Cummings behaved poorly.

I didn't ask for a resignation. I just asked for an acknowledgement that the rules had been broken, and that he was sorry about that.

There are millions of people who made enormous sacrifices to follow government guidelines. Some, like @GideonWise looked after kids in small flats while having CV-19. Others couldn't see loved ones on their death beds.

Some of those people, who chose to obey the rules at great personal cost, are angry.

And I find it staggering that anyone would doubt that there are people who are justifiably angry that the protagonist can't even be bothered to apologise.

Actually I was thinking far more that the Tories on this board tend to be a lot more towards the liberal end rather than conservative. If I remember correctly all the people you mention couldn't countenance Boris (or Cummings for that matter) even before he became leader, and he's mostly a liberal tory.

Of course, the story has had some impact. Major and long-lasting? I doubt it.

Indeed very few conservative Conservatives on this site. I can't think of a single Leave voting conservative Conservative on this site.

Charles, Mortimer, Alanbrooke, Casino, BluestBlue, even Sunil to name just six all voted Leave in 2016 and Tory in 2019.

As did you

I'm not a conservative Conservative, I'm a liberal Conservative.

I'm not sure if any of those six would identify as a conservative Conservative.

Alanbrooke and Mortimer certainly would, maybe Casino too.

SeanF and Gin are also conservative Conservatives

Philip_Thompson said:

HYUFD said:

Philip_Thompson said:

brokenwheel said:

rcs1000 said:

brokenwheel said:

rcs1000 said:

DjayM said:

A poll organised by a newspaper desperate to keep a (non) story going......

The story is over.

But for those who think that has had absolutely no impact, look at this board.

There are a number of posters - loyal Conservative voters and in some case long-term members - who are absolutely livid. Not livid about the press, or the government's media strategy, but that there was not even an apology.

No offence but this place is one of the least representative places on planet earth.

You make my point.

This board contains more tribal people than the population as a whole. And there are still a bunch of people - like myself or @MaxPB or @Big_G_NorthWales or @DavidL - who think Dominic Cummings behaved poorly.

I didn't ask for a resignation. I just asked for an acknowledgement that the rules had been broken, and that he was sorry about that.

There are millions of people who made enormous sacrifices to follow government guidelines. Some, like @GideonWise looked after kids in small flats while having CV-19. Others couldn't see loved ones on their death beds.

Some of those people, who chose to obey the rules at great personal cost, are angry.

And I find it staggering that anyone would doubt that there are people who are justifiably angry that the protagonist can't even be bothered to apologise.

Actually I was thinking far more that the Tories on this board tend to be a lot more towards the liberal end rather than conservative. If I remember correctly all the people you mention couldn't countenance Boris (or Cummings for that matter) even before he became leader, and he's mostly a liberal tory.

Of course, the story has had some impact. Major and long-lasting? I doubt it.

Indeed very few conservative Conservatives on this site. I can't think of a single Leave voting conservative Conservative on this site.

Charles, Mortimer, Alanbrooke, Casino, BluestBlue, even Sunil to name just six all voted Leave in 2016 and Tory in 2019.

As did you

I'm not a conservative Conservative, I'm a liberal Conservative.

I'm not sure if any of those six would identify as a conservative Conservative.

Mortimer is as fogeyish as they come, despite his tender years.

AlastairMeeks said:

DougSeal said:

https://twitter.com/guardian/status/1267457305886556160

I’ve got to say that bringing such cases against individuals seems pretty low to me as a general rule.

Doesn’t it depend somewhat on whether he was acting within his own competence* and/or with the approval of the appropriate manager?

My understanding is that SPADs are technically employed by the MP in question, and if that is so, there would seem to be a reasonable case that he acted without authority and therefore is personally liable for any breaches.

*I know Cummings is totally incompetent. That isn’t what I meant!

contrarian said:

Andy_JS said:

More on this:

"Coronavirus 'no longer clinically exists in Italy', top doctor says

A study conducted at a hospital in Milan found that the number of viruses present in people who tested positive has decreased."

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-no-longer-clinically-exists-in-italy-top-doctor-says-11998608

A certain doctor of this parish frowns on sush posts.

I am meeting with our Virologists next week. I shall ask them if they are seeing different viral loads.

stodge said:

Anabobazina said:

Yes. There are some extraordinary local anomalies (eg Leicestershire, for some reason). But the national and international trend is strongly downward.

This and the new Italian evidence would support the theory that Covid is a flat track bully.

Is the international trend "strongly downward" ? What about Brazil and Mexico?

Today's figures are encouraging (as they always are on a Monday). I would have liked to have seen deaths < 100 and new cases

Brazil and Mexico are a number of weeks behind the rest of the world because it didn't arrive there until much later compared to Europe and Asia.

DougSeal said:

Building on a point I made in last night’s thread

https://twitter.com/jabariasim/status/1267513252218646529

The Documentary "13" on Netflix is well worth watching on the subject of incarceration as continuity slavery.

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1267522468400562183?s=21

HYUFD said:

Philip_Thompson said:

brokenwheel said:

rcs1000 said:

brokenwheel said:

rcs1000 said:

DjayM said:

A poll organised by a newspaper desperate to keep a (non) story going......

The story is over.

But for those who think that has had absolutely no impact, look at this board.

There are a number of posters - loyal Conservative voters and in some case long-term members - who are absolutely livid. Not livid about the press, or the government's media strategy, but that there was not even an apology.

No offence but this place is one of the least representative places on planet earth.

You make my point.

This board contains more tribal people than the population as a whole. And there are still a bunch of people - like myself or @MaxPB or @Big_G_NorthWales or @DavidL - who think Dominic Cummings behaved poorly.

I didn't ask for a resignation. I just asked for an acknowledgement that the rules had been broken, and that he was sorry about that.

There are millions of people who made enormous sacrifices to follow government guidelines. Some, like @GideonWise looked after kids in small flats while having CV-19. Others couldn't see loved ones on their death beds.

Some of those people, who chose to obey the rules at great personal cost, are angry.

And I find it staggering that anyone would doubt that there are people who are justifiably angry that the protagonist can't even be bothered to apologise.

Actually I was thinking far more that the Tories on this board tend to be a lot more towards the liberal end rather than conservative. If I remember correctly all the people you mention couldn't countenance Boris (or Cummings for that matter) even before he became leader, and he's mostly a liberal tory.

Of course, the story has had some impact. Major and long-lasting? I doubt it.

Indeed very few conservative Conservatives on this site. I can't think of a single Leave voting conservative Conservative on this site.

Charles, Mortimer, Alanbrooke, Casino, BluestBlue, even Sunil to name just six all voted Leave in 2016 and Tory in 2019.

As did you

Yebbut I voted Labour in 2015