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  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 46,964
    edited May 13
    Why are so many people getting sick and dying in Montreal from Covid-19?

    Of the entire country’s 70,000 cases and 5,000 deaths, the city of 2 million people has 20,000 cases and more than 2,000 deaths, or about 64% of the entire province’s death toll.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/13/coronavirus-montreal-canada-hit-hard
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 31,884
    MrEd said:

    ydoethur said:

    eadric said:

    Bleak reading if you can't face four more years of Trump.


    "The 2020 election, Kreiss predicted, will be “a big test of whether empirical reality will outweigh motivated partisan reasoning.” "

    "If the test Kreiss anticipates does determine who our next president is, and if the digital world becomes a key battleground, as it certainly will, Democrats believe Joe Biden and his campaign need to be better prepared."

    “Biden’s first virtual online chat got 5,000 people. Just one with Lara Trump gets 945,000.”

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/13/opinion/trump-digital-campaign.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage

    Who would want to chat with weird, demented Uncle Joe?

    Doesn't mean people won't vote for him
    The trouble is I'm not seeing much of his energy yet or his alternative vision for America.

    At the moment it seems to be "I'm not Trump." and "I'm not as bad as Hillary."

    Ok, good starts, but why does he think that's enough?
    Well, in fairness, ‘not being Trump’ should really be an absolute clincher.

    Unfortunately it does rather presuppose a majority of Americans in states amounting to 270 votes are sane.
    Pace posts about polling from others, Trump seems to have lost the haters (eg those who hated Hillary & Trump in 2016 broke for Trump). I can see all sorts of problems with Biden as a candidate but I'd find it difficult to hate him.
    Well, when you look at some of the videos floating around of Biden and his behaviour with teenage girls (and the reaction on the girls' faces), I;m not sure how many people would trust him with their daughters.....
    Biden is a monumentally poor candidate, for many reasons. In any other election, I would spoil my ballot rather than vote for him.

    But it's not really about Biden any more. It's about whether the US constitution - which has been the bedrock of the success of the country for two centuries - can survive another term of President Trump.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 11,721

    The way one chap spread it so much from one night out in South Korea makes me think when it was running riot here in January and February it must have infected millions.

    It did. Peak infection rate must have been around 200,000 per day. Before the lockdown.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 542
    MrEd said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    eadric said:

    Bleak reading if you can't face four more years of Trump.


    "The 2020 election, Kreiss predicted, will be “a big test of whether empirical reality will outweigh motivated partisan reasoning.” "

    "If the test Kreiss anticipates does determine who our next president is, and if the digital world becomes a key battleground, as it certainly will, Democrats believe Joe Biden and his campaign need to be better prepared."

    “Biden’s first virtual online chat got 5,000 people. Just one with Lara Trump gets 945,000.”

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/13/opinion/trump-digital-campaign.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage

    Who would want to chat with weird, demented Uncle Joe?

    Doesn't mean people won't vote for him
    The trouble is I'm not seeing much of his energy yet or his alternative vision for America.

    At the moment it seems to be "I'm not Trump." and "I'm not as bad as Hillary."

    Ok, good starts, but why does he think that's enough?
    Well, in fairness, ‘not being Trump’ should really be an absolute clincher.

    Unfortunately it does rather presuppose a majority of Americans in states amounting to 270 votes are sane.
    You see, so many posters come back with "not being Trump" is enough and then question voters sanity if they disagree.

    That's exactly my point. Trump wasn't mathematical fluke: he won for a reason.

    If I was a US floating voter I might think well, Trump is a twat but better the devil you know and if Biden can't be bothered, then..
    The reason to vote against Trump is because you believe in the primacy of the US Constitution. You believe in the separation of powers. You believe that the power of the President should be limited by the courts and by Congress.

    You recognise that, over time, it is limited and constitutional government that has delivered prosperity, freedom and security to the people, and that cult of personality and unrestrained executive power does not.

    Biden was pretty shit as a Senator. He was a nobody as VP. He's suffering from the early stages of dementia.

    But at least he will not dismantle the very things that has made the US great over the past two centuries.
    You're assuming people will think deeply and vote rationally and logically.

    Why on earth do you think they would do that with a culture war roaring blood red in tooth and claw?
    I have this argument with my wife all the time. I say that - to his supporters - Donald Trump is standing up for a segment of the population that has long felt ignored. And when you think someone is on your side, you're willing to forgive them a lot.

    The problem for Republicans, though, is that demographic is nowhere near enough on its own.

    President Trump assembled a coalition of the religious right who were worried about abortion, small town America, those negatively impacted by globalisation, and capital owners who wanted low taxes. And then he added to those a large number of people who didn't like and didn't trust Hillary Clinton.

    I don't think President Trump has expanded his constituency, or at least if he has, he's not done it by much. The rust belt - even before CV-19 - was an economic laggard. And demographics make states like Arizona look ever tenuously Republican.

    This year will be very interesting, and I'm increasingly coming to the conclusion that it may not be 2016 repeated.
    It pays a bit not to be distracted by the demogrtaphics argument. For example, Hispanics get lumped into a block that is then termed solidly Democrat. But there are a lot of Hispanics who consider themselves white (the Cuban exiles are one example and Latin America is a hotbed of snobbery when it comes to the amount of native American blood somebody has).
    "Hispanic" is a lazy, dismissive category for anyone with a Spanish-speaking heritage, from Puerto Rican cab drivers in NYC to Native Americans in the south west, descendants of tribes Christianised by colonial missionaries. And a lot of interesting variations in between. Just because they mostly "think in Spanish" doesn't mean they think the same way.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 11,721
    @Cyclefree that is truly awful. My condolences to you and your family.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 46,964
    edited May 13
    Becoming increasing depressed about this.. Mike Ryan (WHO)

    It is important to put this on the table: This virus may become just another endemic virus in our communities, and this virus may never go away. I think it is important we are realistic and I don’t think anyone can predict when this disease will disappear. I think there are no promises in this and there are no dates. This disease may settle into a long problem, or it may not be.
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 877
    Mortimer said:

    Pulpstar said:

    DavidL said:

    IanB2 said:

    Poor day for HMG and Boris in particular

    This crisis has so many aspects that it is much easier for someone like Starmer to forensically examine detail and interrogate that detail.

    However, this has a long way to go and there is a need to keep a lid on excessive attacks, as I doubt the public will look on political point scoring well

    I am concerned about Boris's health and less certain that he is going to make a quick recovery to his former self and indeed, as has been suggested by some, he may have to look to a quieter life with Carrie and his son once we have passed January 2021

    There is a once in a hundred year pandemic going on, I doubt he gets much sleep, he will be as busy as hell and a month ago he was in ICU. Taking that into account I think he looks pretty good.
    Indeed and after this depression we should see the biggest economic recovery since the postwar period. Why go through the worst period and then bugger off before the recovery?
    Fast or slow, is the question. Very slow, it appears right now.
    Not sure why you would say that. If the government does run a £400-500bn deficit this year there will be a substantial economic bounce back. Whether it will be sustainable may be another question.

    The real issue is how much of our productive economy is just going to be permanently lost. How many businesses will collapse and not open again and how many will they bring down with them? My total guess is that we will lose 8-10% of our economy. The remaining 90% may well bounce back 10% fairly quickly given that stimulus but that still leaves us short of where we were and sustainability will be an issue.
    If people commute less to the office, and it's less fuel revenue/coffee shop for the economy but they're happier have we lost anything ?
    Probably healthier too. I'm exercising an extra 2-3 hours p/w, and cooking lovely meals rather than ordering in or eating in mediocre mid level hotel restaurants whilst travelling...
    Working from home has seen my daily window for wine consumption expand somewhat...
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 3,883
    edited May 13
    stodge said:

    <
    That's exactly my point. Trump wasn't mathematical fluke: he won for a reason.

    If I was a US floating voter I might think well, Trump is a twat but better the devil you know and if Biden can't be bothered, then..

    If I were an American floating voter, I think I'd be looking at what the Trump and Biden policy programmes were for 2020-24. I agree Biden has to be more than "not Trump" but Trump also has to lay out some kind of policy vision beyond MAGA and he'll be questionned (and rightly so) on Coronavirus and the extent to which some of his other policy commitments have been met.

    Trump has die-hard loyalists but perhaps not as many as last time while Biden needs to get those Democrats and independents who wouldn't vote for Clinton in 2016 to come out and support him rather than stay at home.

    The mood of 2016 in both Britain and the USA has gone - there's a new zeitgeist in town.

    I think your last sentence hits the nail on the head. Right now it's anybody's guess who captures the new mood most successfully. It's not even clear yet what the new mood is yet. Trump has the bigger problem I suspect because time is running out for him - the pandemic and its economic consequences will still very much be with us in the run up to the beginning of November. The last thing Trump will want to see is a second wave in a couple of months, particularly in those states that said to hell with lockdown.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 46,964
    More from WHO...

    Ryan said there was lots of "magical thinking" surrounding countries opening back up. He added that there was a "long, long way to go" on the path to returning to normal.

    I think that is clearly fired at the EU, who want totally open borders and tourism within the next month or so.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 16,946
    Cyclefree said:

    This is continuing to be a shitty horrible year.

    My nephew, the youngest son of my husband’s eldest brother, has died. In his early 30’s. By his own hand. He was depressed; his parents tried to help, despite having to self-isolate themselves. To no avail. They are devastated.

    How does a parent cope with this? What possible consolation can be given?

    It is the third death in as many weeks of someone close to us, two of them an indirect result of this virus.

    Please, God, no more of this.

    For those of you who do, spare a thought tonight in your prayers for him and his parents and those who loved him.

    All I long for when this is over is to see and hug my sons. It is three months since I have seen them face to face.

    Sorry to hear. Suicide is a horrible thing. Suicides often feel that their families would be better off without them, but it is so much more devastating than many other tragedies.

    We have had a spate of attempted suicides by youngsters during lockdown, usually boys.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 5,137

    How does one access the new mobile site?

    By using a mobile phone?

    I am struggling with it, but that I am sure says more about me than the mobile site.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 3,883
    edited May 13

    stodge said:


    At the end of all this, more so than any typical recession, there are going to be winners and losers. A lot of people who are still in work will find that their quality of life will have improved no end, and many of them will find themselves with more disposable income into the bargain. At least until the tax rises bite...

    We'll also end up with an awful lot more people long-term unemployed or labouring for a pittance in really shit conditions, for whom the ordeal will just carry on.

    I've worked at home 2-3 days a week since the 1990s. This is different and I won't say the social aspect of work isn't missed despite all the digital cuppas and virtual watercooler chats.

    It's different for Mrs Stodge who has rarely worked at home but she has adapted - we human beings are really good at that, remember? - and enjoys the lie-in and doesn't miss a crowded tube.

    I've said before adversity breeds opportunity and capitalism can be brutally Darwinist in seeing off the weak and providing new ground for new business ideas. 44% of employed adults working at home is a lot and even if it settles at 30% once life returns to something nearer normal it will be a change.

    It's quite likely I will never go back to the office because there won't be one - we'll hire meeting space as we need it to entertain clients but virtual meetings seem fine.

    My personal hope is the ludicrous formality of dress codes in some businesses and companies will be swept away. I'm not suggesting Rupert Bear jimjams for work but do we really need suits and ties to be "professional"? Not any more.

    Maybe I'm old fashioned, but I really like my suits and ties.

    I bought some lovely new ones from Turnbull & Asser in January.
    What's a "tie" ?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 46,964
    Soumya Swaminathan, the World Health Organisation's (WHO) chief scientist, told the FT's Global Boardroom digital conference: 'I would say in a four to five-year timeframe, we could be looking at controlling this.'
  • glwglw Posts: 6,414
    Andrew said:

    Kinda disappointingly low infection count tbh. We have basically identical excess mortality to Spain (and Belgium/Italy/NL), so we're probably all rather similar - barring drastic differences in % of the elderly it infected.

    2.35 million infected for 32k deaths, 1.36% mortality rate. Nasty (Edit: maybe lower IFR due to the lengthy time before it's detectable? would allow for quite a bit more infections).

    That's the fourth ~10 x known cases iceberg, it would need to be more like 100 x to save our bacon. Anyone still believing the "everyone I know has already had it" stories is a chump.
  • AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,895
    .... and another showing similar numbers.

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 46,964
    China puts a second city under lockdown in the space of four days amid raising fears of a coronavirus comeback

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8314487/Chinese-city-partial-lockdown-major-risk-virus-spread.html

    So that's two cities in lockdown and Wuhan to test all of its population.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 46,964
    edited May 13
    Andrew said:

    .... and another showing similar numbers.

    twitter.com/ME_Valentijn/status/1260649269519777792

    And yet, Swedish Prof Witty thinks they have 20-25% in Stockholm and approaching 20% countrywide. Has he divided by 10 rather than 100?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 60,369
    I'm not sure the WHO has added to the sum total of human knowledge on Covid 19.
    Lots of "might".

    It might take 5 years to get under control
    We might develop long term immunity, we might not.

    The test test test message was good but that's just common sense.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 3,883

    ydoethur said:

    eadric said:

    Bleak reading if you can't face four more years of Trump.


    "The 2020 election, Kreiss predicted, will be “a big test of whether empirical reality will outweigh motivated partisan reasoning.” "

    "If the test Kreiss anticipates does determine who our next president is, and if the digital world becomes a key battleground, as it certainly will, Democrats believe Joe Biden and his campaign need to be better prepared."

    “Biden’s first virtual online chat got 5,000 people. Just one with Lara Trump gets 945,000.”

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/13/opinion/trump-digital-campaign.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage

    Who would want to chat with weird, demented Uncle Joe?

    Doesn't mean people won't vote for him
    The trouble is I'm not seeing much of his energy yet or his alternative vision for America.

    At the moment it seems to be "I'm not Trump." and "I'm not as bad as Hillary."

    Ok, good starts, but why does he think that's enough?
    Well, in fairness, ‘not being Trump’ should really be an absolute clincher.

    Unfortunately it does rather presuppose a majority of Americans in states amounting to 270 votes are sane.
    You see, so many posters come back with "not being Trump" is enough and then question voters sanity if they disagree.

    That's exactly my point. Trump wasn't mathematical fluke: he won for a reason.

    If I was a US floating voter I might think well, Trump is a twat but better the devil you know and if Biden can't be bothered, then..

    I think it's 50/50 right now. There isn't a country in Europe that Trump could win an election in and I think the almost universal disgust of the man over here colours our views.

    I am clinging to the hope that it was very narrow last time and in fact Clinton polled more votes. The Trump core will be as raucous as malevolent as ever but I can't think there won't be others who gave him the benefit of the doubt in 2016 will not vote for him this time. The Dems need to put a huge effort into getting the vote out this time.

    Every time I think that Americans can't be that stupid they go and prove me wrong!
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 6,025
    Monkeys said:

    Andrew said:

    Seems like at least we got something right:

    Is that the Guardian becoming, momentarily and unconsciously, anti-immigration in sentiment? How about that. During a pandemic!
    "This genetic diversity of SARS-CoV-2 populations circulating in different countries points to each of these local epidemics having been seeded by a large number of independent introductions of the virus."

    In other words, that implies that a lot of different travellers have been spreaders. So restricting air travel would seem logical still, certainly as the existing infections decline.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 35,026
    So sorry to hear of your loss, @Cyclefree
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 33,320

    China puts a second city under lockdown in the space of four days amid raising fears of a coronavirus comeback

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8314487/Chinese-city-partial-lockdown-major-risk-virus-spread.html

    So that's two cities in lockdown and Wuhan to test all of its population.

    Only a couple of hours' drive from North Korea.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 60,369

    China puts a second city under lockdown in the space of four days amid raising fears of a coronavirus comeback

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8314487/Chinese-city-partial-lockdown-major-risk-virus-spread.html

    So that's two cities in lockdown and Wuhan to test all of its population.

    This thing going to have more comebacks than John Cena.
  • glwglw Posts: 6,414
    edited May 13

    China puts a second city under lockdown in the space of four days amid raising fears of a coronavirus comeback

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8314487/Chinese-city-partial-lockdown-major-risk-virus-spread.html

    So that's two cities in lockdown and Wuhan to test all of its population.

    So China is locking down cities again, on the basis of finding a few cases of community transmission, yet in Europe with far more cases we have reopening, and a belief that contact tracing will keep the lid on things. Something doesn't add up here.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 46,964
    At least the Unreal 5 engine demo on PS5 looked awesome. Going to be lots of cool looking games to pass your time when we are in lockdown 3 or 4 come the winter.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 46,964
    edited May 13
    glw said:

    China puts a second city under lockdown in the space of four days amid raising fears of a coronavirus comeback

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8314487/Chinese-city-partial-lockdown-major-risk-virus-spread.html

    So that's two cities in lockdown and Wuhan to test all of its population.

    So China is locking down cities again, on the basis of finding a few cases of community transmission, yet in Europe with far more cases we have reopening, and a belief that contact tracing will keep the lid on things. Something doesn't add up here.
    Testing 11 million people in 10 days, because you supposed have 6 cases in an OAP home. Something doesn't smell right.
  • glwglw Posts: 6,414

    Andrew said:

    .... and another showing similar numbers.

    twitter.com/ME_Valentijn/status/1260649269519777792

    And yet, Swedish Prof Witty thinks they have 20-25% in Stockholm and approaching 20% countrywide. Has he divided by 10 rather than 100?
    Maybe they megadose vitamin D in Sweden?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 37,151
    Sorry for your loss @Cyclefree
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 46,964
    edited May 13
    This doesn't sound like much fun...You basically have to live in lockdown.

    Golfers travelling to play in US will have to quarantine

    There will be special charter planes to transport golfers and caddies between events and they are being advised to stay in approved hotels.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/golf/52655562
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 16,946
    Well, I am glad that the government is planning to abide by its commitments in the WA.

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 31,884

    The way one chap spread it so much from one night out in South Korea makes me think when it was running riot here in January and February it must have infected millions.

    It means something very different.

    Super spreader events - like this chap in South Korea, or the beer pong in Ischl, or the music festival in Germany - are massive multipliers of infection.

    Without super spreader events the R of CV-19 might be 1.5, with them it might be 3.

    The reason it circulated without many effects is because there was no super spreader event. Once one happened then suddenly the disease took off.
  • glwglw Posts: 6,414

    glw said:

    China puts a second city under lockdown in the space of four days amid raising fears of a coronavirus comeback

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8314487/Chinese-city-partial-lockdown-major-risk-virus-spread.html

    So that's two cities in lockdown and Wuhan to test all of its population.

    So China is locking down cities again, on the basis of finding a few cases of community transmission, yet in Europe with far more cases we have reopening, and a belief that contact tracing will keep the lid on things. Something doesn't add up here.
    Testing 11 million people in 10 days, because you supposed have 6 cases in an OAP home. Something doesn't smell right.
    Maybe it's simply important to be seen to take action, which has been a big thing in China since the disastrous response to the Chinese New Year winter storms some years ago. It seems damn odd though when compared with what's happening in Europe.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 36,008
    Foxy said:

    Cyclefree said:

    This is continuing to be a shitty horrible year.

    My nephew, the youngest son of my husband’s eldest brother, has died. In his early 30’s. By his own hand. He was depressed; his parents tried to help, despite having to self-isolate themselves. To no avail. They are devastated.

    How does a parent cope with this? What possible consolation can be given?

    It is the third death in as many weeks of someone close to us, two of them an indirect result of this virus.

    Please, God, no more of this.

    For those of you who do, spare a thought tonight in your prayers for him and his parents and those who loved him.

    All I long for when this is over is to see and hug my sons. It is three months since I have seen them face to face.

    Sorry to hear. Suicide is a horrible thing. Suicides often feel that their families would be better off without them, but it is so much more devastating than many other tragedies.

    We have had a spate of attempted suicides by youngsters during lockdown, usually boys.
    It's why it's so important the lockdown ends as soon as possible.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 31,884
    Andrew said:

    .... and another showing similar numbers.

    If you throw them into the woodchipper that probably infects a whole bunch of nearby people too.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 36,008
    Pulpstar said:

    China puts a second city under lockdown in the space of four days amid raising fears of a coronavirus comeback

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8314487/Chinese-city-partial-lockdown-major-risk-virus-spread.html

    So that's two cities in lockdown and Wuhan to test all of its population.

    This thing going to have more comebacks than John Cena.
    Needs a couple more on top too.

    I've never heard of him.
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 1,614
    Andrew said:

    Kinda disappointingly low infection count tbh. We have basically identical excess mortality to Spain (and Belgium/Italy/NL), so we're probably all rather similar - barring drastic differences in % of the elderly it infected.

    2.35 million infected for 32k deaths, 1.36% mortality rate. Nasty (Edit: maybe lower IFR due to the lengthy time before it's detectable? would allow for quite a bit more infections).

    Does anybody have a back down by age? i.e what % of under 10 have had it, what % of 10-20, and so on?

    and from that can we calculate a CFR for each age cohort?
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 1,578
    glw said:

    glw said:

    China puts a second city under lockdown in the space of four days amid raising fears of a coronavirus comeback

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8314487/Chinese-city-partial-lockdown-major-risk-virus-spread.html

    So that's two cities in lockdown and Wuhan to test all of its population.

    So China is locking down cities again, on the basis of finding a few cases of community transmission, yet in Europe with far more cases we have reopening, and a belief that contact tracing will keep the lid on things. Something doesn't add up here.
    Testing 11 million people in 10 days, because you supposed have 6 cases in an OAP home. Something doesn't smell right.
    Maybe it's simply important to be seen to take action, which has been a big thing in China since the disastrous response to the Chinese New Year winter storms some years ago. It seems damn odd though when compared with what's happening in Europe.
    Trump won't be happy. Find a lot of cases and they might knock America off top spot again.

    On another matter - anyone seen the adverts on TV to donate to save Pangolins from extinction? An interestingly timed ad campaign...
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 46,964
    Some good news....antibody tests APPPPPPROOOVVEDDDD..

  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 21,117

    At least the Unreal 5 engine demo on PS5 looked awesome. Going to be lots of cool looking games to pass your time when we are in lockdown 3 or 4 come the winter.

    Winter this year or..
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 36,008
    OllyT said:

    stodge said:


    At the end of all this, more so than any typical recession, there are going to be winners and losers. A lot of people who are still in work will find that their quality of life will have improved no end, and many of them will find themselves with more disposable income into the bargain. At least until the tax rises bite...

    We'll also end up with an awful lot more people long-term unemployed or labouring for a pittance in really shit conditions, for whom the ordeal will just carry on.

    I've worked at home 2-3 days a week since the 1990s. This is different and I won't say the social aspect of work isn't missed despite all the digital cuppas and virtual watercooler chats.

    It's different for Mrs Stodge who has rarely worked at home but she has adapted - we human beings are really good at that, remember? - and enjoys the lie-in and doesn't miss a crowded tube.

    I've said before adversity breeds opportunity and capitalism can be brutally Darwinist in seeing off the weak and providing new ground for new business ideas. 44% of employed adults working at home is a lot and even if it settles at 30% once life returns to something nearer normal it will be a change.

    It's quite likely I will never go back to the office because there won't be one - we'll hire meeting space as we need it to entertain clients but virtual meetings seem fine.

    My personal hope is the ludicrous formality of dress codes in some businesses and companies will be swept away. I'm not suggesting Rupert Bear jimjams for work but do we really need suits and ties to be "professional"? Not any more.

    Maybe I'm old fashioned, but I really like my suits and ties.

    I bought some lovely new ones from Turnbull & Asser in January.
    What's a "tie" ?
    Do we need to do the pb joke again?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 28,727
    Labour government (for London) running out of money again
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 31,884
    glw said:

    China puts a second city under lockdown in the space of four days amid raising fears of a coronavirus comeback

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8314487/Chinese-city-partial-lockdown-major-risk-virus-spread.html

    So that's two cities in lockdown and Wuhan to test all of its population.

    So China is locking down cities again, on the basis of finding a few cases of community transmission, yet in Europe with far more cases we have reopening, and a belief that contact tracing will keep the lid on things. Something doesn't add up here.
    Or the US which is opening up before they even got a proper handle on the first wave...
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 10,567
    Some bad news from Scotland on care home deaths, and untested staff.

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 46,964

    At least the Unreal 5 engine demo on PS5 looked awesome. Going to be lots of cool looking games to pass your time when we are in lockdown 3 or 4 come the winter.

    Winter this year or..
    PS5 is due to be out Christmas 2020.
  • tysontyson Posts: 5,976
    OllyT said:

    stodge said:


    At the end of all this, more so than any typical recession, there are going to be winners and losers. A lot of people who are still in work will find that their quality of life will have improved no end, and many of them will find themselves with more disposable income into the bargain. At least until the tax rises bite...

    We'll also end up with an awful lot more people long-term unemployed or labouring for a pittance in really shit conditions, for whom the ordeal will just carry on.

    I've worked at home 2-3 days a week since the 1990s. This is different and I won't say the social aspect of work isn't missed despite all the digital cuppas and virtual watercooler chats.

    It's different for Mrs Stodge who has rarely worked at home but she has adapted - we human beings are really good at that, remember? - and enjoys the lie-in and doesn't miss a crowded tube.

    I've said before adversity breeds opportunity and capitalism can be brutally Darwinist in seeing off the weak and providing new ground for new business ideas. 44% of employed adults working at home is a lot and even if it settles at 30% once life returns to something nearer normal it will be a change.

    It's quite likely I will never go back to the office because there won't be one - we'll hire meeting space as we need it to entertain clients but virtual meetings seem fine.

    My personal hope is the ludicrous formality of dress codes in some businesses and companies will be swept away. I'm not suggesting Rupert Bear jimjams for work but do we really need suits and ties to be "professional"? Not any more.

    Maybe I'm old fashioned, but I really like my suits and ties.

    I bought some lovely new ones from Turnbull & Asser in January.
    What's a "tie" ?
    Who wears a fucking tie?



  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 10,567
    @Cyclefree I'm so sorry to read about the tragic loss of your nephew. My thoughts are with you.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 1,578

    glw said:

    China puts a second city under lockdown in the space of four days amid raising fears of a coronavirus comeback

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8314487/Chinese-city-partial-lockdown-major-risk-virus-spread.html

    So that's two cities in lockdown and Wuhan to test all of its population.

    So China is locking down cities again, on the basis of finding a few cases of community transmission, yet in Europe with far more cases we have reopening, and a belief that contact tracing will keep the lid on things. Something doesn't add up here.
    Testing 11 million people in 10 days, because you supposed have 6 cases in an OAP home. Something doesn't smell right.
    Things don't smell right in lots of countries. Whatever the real failings, the UK Govt must be royally peed of at the flack they're getting for the large numbers of deaths when any basic analysis suggests that the figures in so many other countries are nonsense. Russia for example is ridiculous. Even Singapore something doesn't seem right. How can they have so many cases and virtually no deaths. Surely different country characteristics can't make that much difference? Unless we really do have millions of asymptomatic cases that we aren't testing for.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 46,964
    edited May 13
    Uk government going to buy 100,000s of these antibody tests a week apparently.
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,263
    tyson said:

    OllyT said:

    stodge said:


    At the end of all this, more so than any typical recession, there are going to be winners and losers. A lot of people who are still in work will find that their quality of life will have improved no end, and many of them will find themselves with more disposable income into the bargain. At least until the tax rises bite...

    We'll also end up with an awful lot more people long-term unemployed or labouring for a pittance in really shit conditions, for whom the ordeal will just carry on.

    I've worked at home 2-3 days a week since the 1990s. This is different and I won't say the social aspect of work isn't missed despite all the digital cuppas and virtual watercooler chats.

    It's different for Mrs Stodge who has rarely worked at home but she has adapted - we human beings are really good at that, remember? - and enjoys the lie-in and doesn't miss a crowded tube.

    I've said before adversity breeds opportunity and capitalism can be brutally Darwinist in seeing off the weak and providing new ground for new business ideas. 44% of employed adults working at home is a lot and even if it settles at 30% once life returns to something nearer normal it will be a change.

    It's quite likely I will never go back to the office because there won't be one - we'll hire meeting space as we need it to entertain clients but virtual meetings seem fine.

    My personal hope is the ludicrous formality of dress codes in some businesses and companies will be swept away. I'm not suggesting Rupert Bear jimjams for work but do we really need suits and ties to be "professional"? Not any more.

    Maybe I'm old fashioned, but I really like my suits and ties.

    I bought some lovely new ones from Turnbull & Asser in January.
    What's a "tie" ?
    Who wears a fucking tie?



    All my ties are celibate, so not me.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 11,721
    tyson said:

    OllyT said:

    stodge said:


    At the end of all this, more so than any typical recession, there are going to be winners and losers. A lot of people who are still in work will find that their quality of life will have improved no end, and many of them will find themselves with more disposable income into the bargain. At least until the tax rises bite...

    We'll also end up with an awful lot more people long-term unemployed or labouring for a pittance in really shit conditions, for whom the ordeal will just carry on.

    I've worked at home 2-3 days a week since the 1990s. This is different and I won't say the social aspect of work isn't missed despite all the digital cuppas and virtual watercooler chats.

    It's different for Mrs Stodge who has rarely worked at home but she has adapted - we human beings are really good at that, remember? - and enjoys the lie-in and doesn't miss a crowded tube.

    I've said before adversity breeds opportunity and capitalism can be brutally Darwinist in seeing off the weak and providing new ground for new business ideas. 44% of employed adults working at home is a lot and even if it settles at 30% once life returns to something nearer normal it will be a change.

    It's quite likely I will never go back to the office because there won't be one - we'll hire meeting space as we need it to entertain clients but virtual meetings seem fine.

    My personal hope is the ludicrous formality of dress codes in some businesses and companies will be swept away. I'm not suggesting Rupert Bear jimjams for work but do we really need suits and ties to be "professional"? Not any more.

    Maybe I'm old fashioned, but I really like my suits and ties.

    I bought some lovely new ones from Turnbull & Asser in January.
    What's a "tie" ?
    Who wears a fucking tie?



    An up-market gigolo?
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 1,578

    Some good news....antibody tests APPPPPPROOOVVEDDDD..

    Ah yes the old "don't raise taxes" because the Govt doesn't need money. Just freeze nurses pay - that'll be a vote winner.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 36,008
    tyson said:

    OllyT said:

    stodge said:


    At the end of all this, more so than any typical recession, there are going to be winners and losers. A lot of people who are still in work will find that their quality of life will have improved no end, and many of them will find themselves with more disposable income into the bargain. At least until the tax rises bite...

    We'll also end up with an awful lot more people long-term unemployed or labouring for a pittance in really shit conditions, for whom the ordeal will just carry on.

    I've worked at home 2-3 days a week since the 1990s. This is different and I won't say the social aspect of work isn't missed despite all the digital cuppas and virtual watercooler chats.

    It's different for Mrs Stodge who has rarely worked at home but she has adapted - we human beings are really good at that, remember? - and enjoys the lie-in and doesn't miss a crowded tube.

    I've said before adversity breeds opportunity and capitalism can be brutally Darwinist in seeing off the weak and providing new ground for new business ideas. 44% of employed adults working at home is a lot and even if it settles at 30% once life returns to something nearer normal it will be a change.

    It's quite likely I will never go back to the office because there won't be one - we'll hire meeting space as we need it to entertain clients but virtual meetings seem fine.

    My personal hope is the ludicrous formality of dress codes in some businesses and companies will be swept away. I'm not suggesting Rupert Bear jimjams for work but do we really need suits and ties to be "professional"? Not any more.

    Maybe I'm old fashioned, but I really like my suits and ties.

    I bought some lovely new ones from Turnbull & Asser in January.
    What's a "tie" ?
    Who wears a fucking tie?



    I certainly don't wear one when I'm fucking, no.

    Business only.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 46,964
    edited May 13
    I think we will know by July really how many people have had this, if they are doing 100,000s of antibody tests a week.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 28,727
    tyson said:

    OllyT said:

    stodge said:


    At the end of all this, more so than any typical recession, there are going to be winners and losers. A lot of people who are still in work will find that their quality of life will have improved no end, and many of them will find themselves with more disposable income into the bargain. At least until the tax rises bite...

    We'll also end up with an awful lot more people long-term unemployed or labouring for a pittance in really shit conditions, for whom the ordeal will just carry on.

    I've worked at home 2-3 days a week since the 1990s. This is different and I won't say the social aspect of work isn't missed despite all the digital cuppas and virtual watercooler chats.

    It's different for Mrs Stodge who has rarely worked at home but she has adapted - we human beings are really good at that, remember? - and enjoys the lie-in and doesn't miss a crowded tube.

    I've said before adversity breeds opportunity and capitalism can be brutally Darwinist in seeing off the weak and providing new ground for new business ideas. 44% of employed adults working at home is a lot and even if it settles at 30% once life returns to something nearer normal it will be a change.

    It's quite likely I will never go back to the office because there won't be one - we'll hire meeting space as we need it to entertain clients but virtual meetings seem fine.

    My personal hope is the ludicrous formality of dress codes in some businesses and companies will be swept away. I'm not suggesting Rupert Bear jimjams for work but do we really need suits and ties to be "professional"? Not any more.

    Maybe I'm old fashioned, but I really like my suits and ties.

    I bought some lovely new ones from Turnbull & Asser in January.
    What's a "tie" ?
    Who wears a fucking tie?



    I don’t have a specific tie for that...
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 1,578
    rcs1000 said:

    glw said:

    China puts a second city under lockdown in the space of four days amid raising fears of a coronavirus comeback

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8314487/Chinese-city-partial-lockdown-major-risk-virus-spread.html

    So that's two cities in lockdown and Wuhan to test all of its population.

    So China is locking down cities again, on the basis of finding a few cases of community transmission, yet in Europe with far more cases we have reopening, and a belief that contact tracing will keep the lid on things. Something doesn't add up here.
    Or the US which is opening up before they even got a proper handle on the first wave...
    It's a novel way of avoiding a second wave.
  • tysontyson Posts: 5,976

    Foxy said:

    Cyclefree said:

    This is continuing to be a shitty horrible year.

    My nephew, the youngest son of my husband’s eldest brother, has died. In his early 30’s. By his own hand. He was depressed; his parents tried to help, despite having to self-isolate themselves. To no avail. They are devastated.

    How does a parent cope with this? What possible consolation can be given?

    It is the third death in as many weeks of someone close to us, two of them an indirect result of this virus.

    Please, God, no more of this.

    For those of you who do, spare a thought tonight in your prayers for him and his parents and those who loved him.

    All I long for when this is over is to see and hug my sons. It is three months since I have seen them face to face.

    Sorry to hear. Suicide is a horrible thing. Suicides often feel that their families would be better off without them, but it is so much more devastating than many other tragedies.

    We have had a spate of attempted suicides by youngsters during lockdown, usually boys.
    It's why it's so important the lockdown ends as soon as possible.
    One of the great ironies of Covid 19 are Brexiteers who have suddenly started advocating for mental health services....

    Just a little reminder to you all....mental health services have been utterly fubared by Tory austerity....
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 46,964
    edited May 13
    I see all the journalists are up in arms about Buzzfeed news going, reminds me of when the Indy stopped being a physical paper.

    Banging on about just how good they were....but like the Indy, nobody bloody reads it.
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 1,614

    Andrew said:

    .... and another showing similar numbers.

    twitter.com/ME_Valentijn/status/1260649269519777792

    And yet, Swedish Prof Witty thinks they have 20-25% in Stockholm and approaching 20% countrywide. Has he divided by 10 rather than 100?

    The age factor will be the big player here, in Spain they went form everybody going out, to lock-down for all, which presumably all ages have it in similer amounts.

    In Sweden the old and ill have largely voluntarily locked themselves up and are taking all sorts of precautions, while the young and healthy are still going to school work, and in some cases pubs and restaurants.

    As a result the % of the national total who have had COVID is, (Presumed) to be much higher, and yet the deaths/million the same/slightly lower.

    More data, including an age breakdown from Spain, and a large scale antibody test from Sweden would be so use full,
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 21,117

    tyson said:

    OllyT said:

    stodge said:


    At the end of all this, more so than any typical recession, there are going to be winners and losers. A lot of people who are still in work will find that their quality of life will have improved no end, and many of them will find themselves with more disposable income into the bargain. At least until the tax rises bite...

    We'll also end up with an awful lot more people long-term unemployed or labouring for a pittance in really shit conditions, for whom the ordeal will just carry on.

    I've worked at home 2-3 days a week since the 1990s. This is different and I won't say the social aspect of work isn't missed despite all the digital cuppas and virtual watercooler chats.

    It's different for Mrs Stodge who has rarely worked at home but she has adapted - we human beings are really good at that, remember? - and enjoys the lie-in and doesn't miss a crowded tube.

    I've said before adversity breeds opportunity and capitalism can be brutally Darwinist in seeing off the weak and providing new ground for new business ideas. 44% of employed adults working at home is a lot and even if it settles at 30% once life returns to something nearer normal it will be a change.

    It's quite likely I will never go back to the office because there won't be one - we'll hire meeting space as we need it to entertain clients but virtual meetings seem fine.

    My personal hope is the ludicrous formality of dress codes in some businesses and companies will be swept away. I'm not suggesting Rupert Bear jimjams for work but do we really need suits and ties to be "professional"? Not any more.

    Maybe I'm old fashioned, but I really like my suits and ties.

    I bought some lovely new ones from Turnbull & Asser in January.
    What's a "tie" ?
    Who wears a fucking tie?



    An up-market gigolo?
    The gerbil was not available for comment.


  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 46,964
    This official guidance on this thread has been changed....updated guidance is available on a new thread.
  • glwglw Posts: 6,414

    Uk government going to buy 100,000s of these antibody tests a week apparently.

    That's what the man from Roche said. It's really good news that they've been given approval.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 11,721
    tyson said:

    OllyT said:

    stodge said:


    At the end of all this, more so than any typical recession, there are going to be winners and losers. A lot of people who are still in work will find that their quality of life will have improved no end, and many of them will find themselves with more disposable income into the bargain. At least until the tax rises bite...

    We'll also end up with an awful lot more people long-term unemployed or labouring for a pittance in really shit conditions, for whom the ordeal will just carry on.

    I've worked at home 2-3 days a week since the 1990s. This is different and I won't say the social aspect of work isn't missed despite all the digital cuppas and virtual watercooler chats.

    It's different for Mrs Stodge who has rarely worked at home but she has adapted - we human beings are really good at that, remember? - and enjoys the lie-in and doesn't miss a crowded tube.

    I've said before adversity breeds opportunity and capitalism can be brutally Darwinist in seeing off the weak and providing new ground for new business ideas. 44% of employed adults working at home is a lot and even if it settles at 30% once life returns to something nearer normal it will be a change.

    It's quite likely I will never go back to the office because there won't be one - we'll hire meeting space as we need it to entertain clients but virtual meetings seem fine.

    My personal hope is the ludicrous formality of dress codes in some businesses and companies will be swept away. I'm not suggesting Rupert Bear jimjams for work but do we really need suits and ties to be "professional"? Not any more.

    Maybe I'm old fashioned, but I really like my suits and ties.

    I bought some lovely new ones from Turnbull & Asser in January.
    What's a "tie" ?
    Who wears a fucking tie?



    When it's 'naughty schoolgirl' role play night...



    ...at SeanT's gaff.
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 920
    alex_ said:

    glw said:

    China puts a second city under lockdown in the space of four days amid raising fears of a coronavirus comeback

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8314487/Chinese-city-partial-lockdown-major-risk-virus-spread.html

    So that's two cities in lockdown and Wuhan to test all of its population.

    So China is locking down cities again, on the basis of finding a few cases of community transmission, yet in Europe with far more cases we have reopening, and a belief that contact tracing will keep the lid on things. Something doesn't add up here.
    Testing 11 million people in 10 days, because you supposed have 6 cases in an OAP home. Something doesn't smell right.
    Things don't smell right in lots of countries. Whatever the real failings, the UK Govt must be royally peed of at the flack they're getting for the large numbers of deaths when any basic analysis suggests that the figures in so many other countries are nonsense. Russia for example is ridiculous. Even Singapore something doesn't seem right. How can they have so many cases and virtually no deaths. Surely different country characteristics can't make that much difference? Unless we really do have millions of asymptomatic cases that we aren't testing for.
    Italy’s figures are also nonsense
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 5,669
    Ah come on. There is something reassuring at sticking on a fab suit, nice shirt, tie, the whole smash. I'm not going the whole hog every day here at the Home Office Hamster Cage but have done a couple of times.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 47,682

    Ah come on. There is something reassuring at sticking on a fab suit, nice shirt, tie, the whole smash. I'm not going the whole hog every day here at the Home Office Hamster Cage but have done a couple of times.

    It's the only way I've been able to get myself into work mode. Smart during the week, casual at the weekends.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 47,682

    Some good news....antibody tests APPPPPPROOOVVEDDDD..

    Awesome news
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 3,786

    At least the Unreal 5 engine demo on PS5 looked awesome. Going to be lots of cool looking games to pass your time when we are in lockdown 3 or 4 come the winter.

    Drama queenery again Francis?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 3,786
    edited May 13

    Some good news....antibody tests APPPPPPROOOVVEDDDD..

    Well yes, it’s basic economics that you don’t cut taxes and choke off spending in a severe recession. Only a mad man would contemplate it, as I said on here last night.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 3,786
    alex_ said:

    Some good news....antibody tests APPPPPPROOOVVEDDDD..

    Ah yes the old "don't raise taxes" because the Govt doesn't need money. Just freeze nurses pay - that'll be a vote winner.
    Borrow and print.
  • eekeek Posts: 8,652

    Some good news....antibody tests APPPPPPROOOVVEDDDD..

    Well yes, it’s basic economics that you don’t cut taxes and choke off spending in a severe recession. Only a mad man would contemplate it, as I said on here last night.
    And HMRC (for they are mad and don't understand economics - nor anything else from past experience).
  • eekeek Posts: 8,652

    At least the Unreal 5 engine demo on PS5 looked awesome. Going to be lots of cool looking games to pass your time when we are in lockdown 3 or 4 come the winter.

    Drama queenery again Francis?
    Only if you can get one - given that demand is likely to be higher than even other launches I suspect supply will be an issue.
  • eekeek Posts: 8,652
    Finally stories like this are really not going to help convince people that returning to work is a good idea.

    https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/18446952.husqvarna-workers-dropping-like-flies-aycliffe-factory-confirms-number-of-cases/
This discussion has been closed.