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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » On the betting markets it’s now a 74% chance that a general election will happen BEFORE a UK exit from the EU
There are too many examples in political betting when favourites have not won to make the assertion that betting can be predictive. What historical trends do show, as in the above betdata.io chart, is how those ready to risk their cash on the Betfair exchange are seeing things at a given moment.
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Wow! More Brexit!0
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Bring back pasty-gate0
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https://twitter.com/nicholaswatt/status/1181553633676189701
So was this Jeremy Hunt or Philip Hammond?0 -
BJ and the Tories are playing games with peoples lives. It is time to remove BJ with an alternative Government....0
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Of those two ? Hammond I reckon, Hunt is very in Boris' tent now.AlastairMeeks said:https://twitter.com/nicholaswatt/status/1181553633676189701
So was this Jeremy Hunt or Philip Hammond?0 -
Any attempt to portray Merkel as the villain of the piece is going to lean very heavily on total ignorance of what's gone before.AlastairMeeks said:https://twitter.com/nicholaswatt/status/1181553633676189701
So was this Jeremy Hunt or Philip Hammond?
That's not to say it won't succeed, if Brexiteers are the target audience.0 -
Brexiteers and get it done remain preferrers, get them on board and you have a thumping majority at any electionChris said:
Any attempt to portray Merkel as the villain of the piece is going to lean very heavily on total ignorance of what's gone before.AlastairMeeks said:https://twitter.com/nicholaswatt/status/1181553633676189701
So was this Jeremy Hunt or Philip Hammond?
That's not to say it won't succeed, if Brexiteers are the target audience.0 -
Former member of Theresa May's cabinet does not preclude current member of Boris Johnson's cabinet.AlastairMeeks said:https://twitter.com/nicholaswatt/status/1181553633676189701
So was this Jeremy Hunt or Philip Hammond?
I wouldn't have thought that Hammond would be shy of making a similar criticism publicly, but a current member of Johnson's cabinet would be more circumspect.0 -
God give me the confidence of the death cultists.dyedwoolie said:
Brexiteers and get it done remain preferrers, get them on board and you have a thumping majority at any electionChris said:
Any attempt to portray Merkel as the villain of the piece is going to lean very heavily on total ignorance of what's gone before.AlastairMeeks said:https://twitter.com/nicholaswatt/status/1181553633676189701
So was this Jeremy Hunt or Philip Hammond?
That's not to say it won't succeed, if Brexiteers are the target audience.0 -
Right. Well, if you need sane people too, then the propaganda needs to be tailored to the sane.dyedwoolie said:
Brexiteers and get it done remain preferrers, get them on board and you have a thumping majority at any electionChris said:
Any attempt to portray Merkel as the villain of the piece is going to lean very heavily on total ignorance of what's gone before.AlastairMeeks said:https://twitter.com/nicholaswatt/status/1181553633676189701
So was this Jeremy Hunt or Philip Hammond?
That's not to say it won't succeed, if Brexiteers are the target audience.0 -
That dry humour sounds like David Gauke to me.Pulpstar said:
Of those two ? Hammond I reckon, Hunt is very in Boris' tent now.AlastairMeeks said:https://twitter.com/nicholaswatt/status/1181553633676189701
So was this Jeremy Hunt or Philip Hammond?
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FPT:
He won't stand down, his ego won't allow him to. But Boris might still gobble up his vote sufficiently to win the GE.vanillastooge said:This looks like the start of a pivot to a No Deal GE platform. If Farage does stand down, Boris will gobble up the BXP vote.
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Vote Revoke and move on from Brexit!dyedwoolie said:
Brexiteers and get it done remain preferrers, get them on board and you have a thumping majority at any electionChris said:
Any attempt to portray Merkel as the villain of the piece is going to lean very heavily on total ignorance of what's gone before.AlastairMeeks said:https://twitter.com/nicholaswatt/status/1181553633676189701
So was this Jeremy Hunt or Philip Hammond?
That's not to say it won't succeed, if Brexiteers are the target audience.1 -
The logic of permanent Customs Union for Ireland inevitably follows from the professed desire for no border facilities. This is our government's policy, so why castigate Angela for it. We agreed it long ago.1
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Is Parliament still being prorogued today? Do they have time to lay down a VoNC?
A better question, do they have the guts to do so? (No, they don't)1 -
Another opening post that hurts my head to read0
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It is. Reopening Monday. I think it's too late for a VONCTheValiant said:Is Parliament still being prorogued today? Do they have time to lay down a VoNC?
A better question, do they have the guts to do so? (No, they don't)0 -
Sounds like Spreadshit's "humour"AlastairMeeks said:https://twitter.com/nicholaswatt/status/1181553633676189701
So was this Jeremy Hunt or Philip Hammond?2 -
I think for your average two brain-celled Brexiteer it is much easier and more convenient to blame a foreigner, particularly if said foreigner is also German and female.Foxy said:The logic of permanent Customs Union for Ireland inevitably follows from the professed desire for no border facilities. This is our government's policy, so why castigate Angela for it. We agreed it long ago.
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It's not just about a lack of border facilities. In article 49 of the Joint Report there's a commitment to support the all-island economy, and in article 48 a reference to North-South cooperation in economic and agricultural contexts.Foxy said:The logic of permanent Customs Union for Ireland inevitably follows from the professed desire for no border facilities. This is our government's policy, so why castigate Angela for it. We agreed it long ago.
Even if the proposed magic technology did exist to do away with any need for customs inspections at or near the border, levying customs tariffs between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland would breach the commitment to support the all-island economy and North-South cooperation.0 -
Does anyone else find it remarkable that the opposition has maintained confidence in the Gov't through all of this ?1
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It wouldn't be so much guts required as stupidity. Not even Corbyn is dense enough to dance to Bozo's tune.TheValiant said:Is Parliament still being prorogued today? Do they have time to lay down a VoNC?
A better question, do they have the guts to do so? (No, they don't)0 -
She's German. It doesn't have to make any actual sense, given that.Chris said:
Any attempt to portray Merkel as the villain of the piece is going to lean very heavily on total ignorance of what's gone before.AlastairMeeks said:https://twitter.com/nicholaswatt/status/1181553633676189701
So was this Jeremy Hunt or Philip Hammond?
That's not to say it won't succeed, if Brexiteers are the target audience.
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It hasn’t.Pulpstar said:Does anyone else find it remarkable that the opposition has maintained confidence in the Gov't through all of this ?
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Honouring a majority vote is not a "death cult".AlastairMeeks said:
God give me the confidence of the death cultists.dyedwoolie said:
Brexiteers and get it done remain preferrers, get them on board and you have a thumping majority at any electionChris said:
Any attempt to portray Merkel as the villain of the piece is going to lean very heavily on total ignorance of what's gone before.AlastairMeeks said:https://twitter.com/nicholaswatt/status/1181553633676189701
So was this Jeremy Hunt or Philip Hammond?
That's not to say it won't succeed, if Brexiteers are the target audience.
The death cultists are those who would block and frustrate that vote at every turn. The polls point to the enduring damage this is now doing to trust in politicians and political institutions. THAT is a much bigger long term problem than Brexit.
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RWC Typhoon update.....
Typhoon swinging a bit further northeast - earlier concerns about Ireland Samoa seem to be easing - but typhoon now appears to be crossing Yokohama at same time as England France game. Nil nil draw on the cards.....0 -
The Leave campaign explicitly and angrily disavowed the idea of a no deal Brexit. The chaos and disruption that would cause has no mandate.basicbridge said:
Honouring a majority vote is not a "death cult".AlastairMeeks said:
God give me the confidence of the death cultists.dyedwoolie said:
Brexiteers and get it done remain preferrers, get them on board and you have a thumping majority at any electionChris said:
Any attempt to portray Merkel as the villain of the piece is going to lean very heavily on total ignorance of what's gone before.AlastairMeeks said:https://twitter.com/nicholaswatt/status/1181553633676189701
So was this Jeremy Hunt or Philip Hammond?
That's not to say it won't succeed, if Brexiteers are the target audience.
The death cultists are those who would block and frustrate that vote at every turn. The polls point to the enduring damage this is now doing to trust in politicians and political institutions. THAT is a much bigger long term problem than Brexit.1 -
Well, Parliament doesn't have confidence in the Government. But they haven't formally said so. It's a bit like Schrodinger's cat.AlastairMeeks said:
It hasn’t.Pulpstar said:Does anyone else find it remarkable that the opposition has maintained confidence in the Gov't through all of this ?
Parliament both DOES, and DOES NOT, have confidence in Her Majesty's Government.1 -
No exit deal without the backstop.Foxy said:The logic of permanent Customs Union for Ireland inevitably follows from the professed desire for no border facilities. This is our government's policy, so why castigate Angela for it. We agreed it long ago.
Once triggered, the backstop runs until alternative arrangements are agreed to replace it.
Nothing has changed - except the rhetoric for domestic consumption.0 -
It’s just a placeholder government.TheValiant said:
Well, Parliament doesn't have confidence in the Government. But they haven't formally said so. It's a bit like Schrodinger's cat.AlastairMeeks said:
It hasn’t.Pulpstar said:Does anyone else find it remarkable that the opposition has maintained confidence in the Gov't through all of this ?
Parliament both DOES, and DOES NOT, have confidence in Her Majesty's Government.0 -
If Boris gets a majority, then he won't HAVE to No Deal Brexit and trash the country and his party.TheValiant said:FPT:
He won't stand down, his ego won't allow him to. But Boris might still gobble up his vote sufficiently to win the GE.vanillastooge said:This looks like the start of a pivot to a No Deal GE platform. If Farage does stand down, Boris will gobble up the BXP vote.
But on the other hand he'll have campaigned on a No Deal, so I suppose he will.
'Sad' as someone might say.0 -
And people accuse Leavers of being deluded. Thete is no moving on from this if we Revoke.OblitusSumMe said:
Vote Revoke and move on from Brexit!dyedwoolie said:
Brexiteers and get it done remain preferrers, get them on board and you have a thumping majority at any electionChris said:
Any attempt to portray Merkel as the villain of the piece is going to lean very heavily on total ignorance of what's gone before.AlastairMeeks said:https://twitter.com/nicholaswatt/status/1181553633676189701
So was this Jeremy Hunt or Philip Hammond?
That's not to say it won't succeed, if Brexiteers are the target audience.1 -
On topic -
I think GE before Brexit is a stone cold certainty. 74% is therefore great value.
A Deal is out and both No Deal and Ref2/Remain need a GE mandate and thus a GE.0 -
No-deal Brexit is not "honouring" the referendum result, quite the reverse. To "honour" that somewhat dubious ballot, it might be sensible to go for a very soft Brexit, but definitely not an extremist no-deal Brexit that was not even discussed as a possible outcome during the campaign.basicbridge said:
Honouring a majority vote is not a "death cult".AlastairMeeks said:
God give me the confidence of the death cultists.dyedwoolie said:
Brexiteers and get it done remain preferrers, get them on board and you have a thumping majority at any electionChris said:
Any attempt to portray Merkel as the villain of the piece is going to lean very heavily on total ignorance of what's gone before.AlastairMeeks said:https://twitter.com/nicholaswatt/status/1181553633676189701
So was this Jeremy Hunt or Philip Hammond?
That's not to say it won't succeed, if Brexiteers are the target audience.
The death cultists are those who would block and frustrate that vote at every turn. The polls point to the enduring damage this is now doing to trust in politicians and political institutions. THAT is a much bigger long term problem than Brexit.0 -
Just ignore the referendum result.OblitusSumMe said:
Vote Revoke and move on from Brexit!dyedwoolie said:
Brexiteers and get it done remain preferrers, get them on board and you have a thumping majority at any electionChris said:
Any attempt to portray Merkel as the villain of the piece is going to lean very heavily on total ignorance of what's gone before.AlastairMeeks said:https://twitter.com/nicholaswatt/status/1181553633676189701
So was this Jeremy Hunt or Philip Hammond?
That's not to say it won't succeed, if Brexiteers are the target audience.0 -
Another Pachinko random scenario drop...Nigel_Foremain said:
It wouldn't be so much guts required as stupidity. Not even Corbyn is dense enough to dance to Bozo's tune.TheValiant said:Is Parliament still being prorogued today? Do they have time to lay down a VoNC?
A better question, do they have the guts to do so? (No, they don't)
Boris could resign, get HMQ to send for Corbyn, he accepts and becomes PM without need to priorly demonstrate confidence, sends letter, gets HMQ to deliver his QS and sets off to deliver his Brexit.
Boris brings him down in his own time.0 -
Brexit will not cause us to move on from Brexit. Leave or remain, the politicians and snakeoil salesmen that sold this to the British electorate have condemned us to division and decline. There is no way to "move on" until all of us that remember this debacle are pushing up the daisies .Richard_Tyndall said:
And people accuse Leavers of being deluded. Thete is no moving on from this if we Revoke.OblitusSumMe said:
Vote Revoke and move on from Brexit!dyedwoolie said:
Brexiteers and get it done remain preferrers, get them on board and you have a thumping majority at any electionChris said:
Any attempt to portray Merkel as the villain of the piece is going to lean very heavily on total ignorance of what's gone before.AlastairMeeks said:https://twitter.com/nicholaswatt/status/1181553633676189701
So was this Jeremy Hunt or Philip Hammond?
That's not to say it won't succeed, if Brexiteers are the target audience.1 -
"Number 10 source says party will fight election on no deal platform"
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/10/08/dominic-cummings-memo-brexit-talks-election/0 -
Sooner or later, a Leaver politician is going to try to stop paying the political marauders Danegeld. But not for a good while, I think.AndyJS said:"Number 10 source says party will fight election on no deal platform"
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/10/08/dominic-cummings-memo-brexit-talks-election/0 -
Well I had to look up what Pachinko is/was, but even then don't understand your point. Are you another deluded Bozo fanboy or are you being ironic?Pro_Rata said:
Another Pachinko random scenario drop...Nigel_Foremain said:
It wouldn't be so much guts required as stupidity. Not even Corbyn is dense enough to dance to Bozo's tune.TheValiant said:Is Parliament still being prorogued today? Do they have time to lay down a VoNC?
A better question, do they have the guts to do so? (No, they don't)
Boris could resign, get HMQ to send for Corbyn, he accepts and becomes PM without need to priorly demonstrate confidence, sends letter, gets HMQ to deliver his QS and sets off to deliver his Brexit.
Boris brings him down in his own time.0 -
It was discussed extensively by Remain and there are plenty of interview clips of Cameron saying it wss posdible. Not that it is my preferred course but to claim it was not discussed is just wrong. .Nigel_Foremain said:
No-deal Brexit is not "honouring" the referendum result, quite the reverse. To "honour" that somewhat dubious ballot, it might be sensible to go for a very soft Brexit, but definitely not an extremist no-deal Brexit that was not even discussed as a possible outcome during the campaign.basicbridge said:
Honouring a majority vote is not a "death cult".AlastairMeeks said:
God give me the confidence of the death cultists.dyedwoolie said:
Brexiteers and get it done remain preferrers, get them on board and you have a thumping majority at any electionChris said:
Any attempt to portray Merkel as the villain of the piece is going to lean very heavily on total ignorance of what's gone before.AlastairMeeks said:https://twitter.com/nicholaswatt/status/1181553633676189701
So was this Jeremy Hunt or Philip Hammond?
That's not to say it won't succeed, if Brexiteers are the target audience.
The death cultists are those who would block and frustrate that vote at every turn. The polls point to the enduring damage this is now doing to trust in politicians and political institutions. THAT is a much bigger long term problem than Brexit.0 -
As the government is by attempting to go for no-deal.AndyJS said:
Just ignore the referendum result.OblitusSumMe said:
Vote Revoke and move on from Brexit!dyedwoolie said:
Brexiteers and get it done remain preferrers, get them on board and you have a thumping majority at any electionChris said:
Any attempt to portray Merkel as the villain of the piece is going to lean very heavily on total ignorance of what's gone before.AlastairMeeks said:https://twitter.com/nicholaswatt/status/1181553633676189701
So was this Jeremy Hunt or Philip Hammond?
That's not to say it won't succeed, if Brexiteers are the target audience.0 -
Why would a soft Brexit honour that?Nigel_Foremain said:
No-deal Brexit is not "honouring" the referendum result, quite the reverse. To "honour" that somewhat dubious ballot, it might be sensible to go for a very soft Brexit, but definitely not an extremist no-deal Brexit that was not even discussed as a possible outcome during the campaign.basicbridge said:
Honouring a majority vote is not a "death cult".AlastairMeeks said:
God give me the confidence of the death cultists.dyedwoolie said:
Brexiteers and get it done remain preferrers, get them on board and you have a thumping majority at any electionChris said:
Any attempt to portray Merkel as the villain of the piece is going to lean very heavily on total ignorance of what's gone before.AlastairMeeks said:https://twitter.com/nicholaswatt/status/1181553633676189701
So was this Jeremy Hunt or Philip Hammond?
That's not to say it won't succeed, if Brexiteers are the target audience.
The death cultists are those who would block and frustrate that vote at every turn. The polls point to the enduring damage this is now doing to trust in politicians and political institutions. THAT is a much bigger long term problem than Brexit.
The government said if we voted to leave we would leave the Single Market.
The remain campaign said if we voted to leave we would leave the Single Market
The leave campaigns said if we voted to leave we would leave the Single Market.
The Labour Party, the SNP, the then PM, the current PM, the then Chancellor, the Leader of the Opposition all said if we voted to leave we would leave the Single Market.
The only thing everyone in power agreed on was that leave meant leaving the Single Market. The idea of a soft Brexit only came about after the result came in.2 -
"Half of people are now floating voters, creating an unprecedented level of political volatility ahead of a general election, a new study shows.
A series of significant political shocks, including immigration, the financial crash and referendums on Scottish independence and Brexit have shattered longstanding party ties."
(£)
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/brexit-has-shattered-party-politics-in-britain-study-finds-nwtwd3b2h0 -
Let me get this right. If A, B, C and D etc said that result X would be a disaster, that is your justification for going for result X, that it was 'discussed'?Philip_Thompson said:
Why would a soft Brexit honour that?Nigel_Foremain said:
No-deal Brexit is not "honouring" the referendum result, quite the reverse. To "honour" that somewhat dubious ballot, it might be sensible to go for a very soft Brexit, but definitely not an extremist no-deal Brexit that was not even discussed as a possible outcome during the campaign.basicbridge said:
Honouring a majority vote is not a "death cult".AlastairMeeks said:
God give me the confidence of the death cultists.dyedwoolie said:
Brexiteers and get it done remain preferrers, get them on board and you have a thumping majority at any electionChris said:
Any attempt to portray Merkel as the villain of the piece is going to lean very heavily on total ignorance of what's gone before.AlastairMeeks said:https://twitter.com/nicholaswatt/status/1181553633676189701
So was this Jeremy Hunt or Philip Hammond?
That's not to say it won't succeed, if Brexiteers are the target audience.
The death cultists are those who would block and frustrate that vote at every turn. The polls point to the enduring damage this is now doing to trust in politicians and political institutions. THAT is a much bigger long term problem than Brexit.
The government said if we voted to leave we would leave the Single Market.
The remain campaign said if we voted to leave we would leave the Single Market
The leave campaigns said if we voted to leave we would leave the Single Market.
The Labour Party, the SNP, the then PM, the current PM, the then Chancellor, the Leader of the Opposition all said if we voted to leave we would leave the Single Market.
The only thing everyone in power agreed on was that leave meant leaving the Single Market. The idea of a soft Brexit only came about after the result came in.0 -
An interesting question for some pollster perhaps. How many people thought there was any possibility of the EU not giving us a deal? Slight problem of false recall by about 30% of the population though I suppose.Richard_Tyndall said:
It was discussed extensively by Remain and there are plenty of interview clips of Cameron saying it wss posdible. Not that it is my preferred course but to claim it was not discussed is just wrong. .Nigel_Foremain said:
No-deal Brexit is not "honouring" the referendum result, quite the reverse. To "honour" that somewhat dubious ballot, it might be sensible to go for a very soft Brexit, but definitely not an extremist no-deal Brexit that was not even discussed as a possible outcome during the campaign.basicbridge said:
Honouring a majority vote is not a "death cult".AlastairMeeks said:
God give me the confidence of the death cultists.dyedwoolie said:
Brexiteers and get it done remain preferrers, get them on board and you have a thumping majority at any electionChris said:
Any attempt to portray Merkel as the villain of the piece is going to lean very heavily on total ignorance of what's gone before.AlastairMeeks said:https://twitter.com/nicholaswatt/status/1181553633676189701
So was this Jeremy Hunt or Philip Hammond?
That's not to say it won't succeed, if Brexiteers are the target audience.
The death cultists are those who would block and frustrate that vote at every turn. The polls point to the enduring damage this is now doing to trust in politicians and political institutions. THAT is a much bigger long term problem than Brexit.
I can honestly say though, that even as a political nerd who followed the referendum closely, I never recall it being put forward as a possibility by Leave advocates. Anyone that can provide evidence of widespread discussion is welcome to disabuse me.0 -
We'll never move on from Brexit while Boris Johnson is in plain sight.OblitusSumMe said:
Vote Revoke and move on from Brexit!dyedwoolie said:
Brexiteers and get it done remain preferrers, get them on board and you have a thumping majority at any electionChris said:
Any attempt to portray Merkel as the villain of the piece is going to lean very heavily on total ignorance of what's gone before.AlastairMeeks said:https://twitter.com/nicholaswatt/status/1181553633676189701
So was this Jeremy Hunt or Philip Hammond?
That's not to say it won't succeed, if Brexiteers are the target audience.0 -
Your whole post is nonsense. Norway was often postulated as the model when Leave thought it was losing the argument.Philip_Thompson said:
Why would a soft Brexit honour that?Nigel_Foremain said:
No-deal Brexit is not "honouring" the referendum result, quite the reverse. To "honour" that somewhat dubious ballot, it might be sensible to go for a very soft Brexit, but definitely not an extremist no-deal Brexit that was not even discussed as a possible outcome during the campaign.basicbridge said:
Honouring a majority vote is not a "death cult".AlastairMeeks said:
God give me the confidence of the death cultists.dyedwoolie said:
Brexiteers and get it done remain preferrers, get them on board and you have a thumping majority at any electionChris said:
Any attempt to portray Merkel as the villain of the piece is going to lean very heavily on total ignorance of what's gone before.AlastairMeeks said:https://twitter.com/nicholaswatt/status/1181553633676189701
So was this Jeremy Hunt or Philip Hammond?
That's not to say it won't succeed, if Brexiteers are the target audience.
The death cultists are those who would block and frustrate that vote at every turn. The polls point to the enduring damage this is now doing to trust in politicians and political institutions. THAT is a much bigger long term problem than Brexit.
The government said if we voted to leave we would leave the Single Market.
The remain campaign said if we voted to leave we would leave the Single Market
The leave campaigns said if we voted to leave we would leave the Single Market.
The Labour Party, the SNP, the then PM, the current PM, the then Chancellor, the Leader of the Opposition all said if we voted to leave we would leave the Single Market.
The only thing everyone in power agreed on was that leave meant leaving the Single Market. The idea of a soft Brexit only came about after the result came in.0 -
The forthcoming General Election creates a new mandate, whether that's to revoke, fence sit, go for independence or apparently go for "No Deal" is up to the parties themselves.Nigel_Foremain said:
As the government is by attempting to go for no-deal.AndyJS said:
Just ignore the referendum result.OblitusSumMe said:
Vote Revoke and move on from Brexit!dyedwoolie said:
Brexiteers and get it done remain preferrers, get them on board and you have a thumping majority at any electionChris said:
Any attempt to portray Merkel as the villain of the piece is going to lean very heavily on total ignorance of what's gone before.AlastairMeeks said:https://twitter.com/nicholaswatt/status/1181553633676189701
So was this Jeremy Hunt or Philip Hammond?
That's not to say it won't succeed, if Brexiteers are the target audience.0 -
I wasn't being serious. There is no escape from Brexit. However, it's probably the least worst option (in the absence of a genuine national compromise). Consider the alternatives.Richard_Tyndall said:
And people accuse Leavers of being deluded. Thete is no moving on from this if we Revoke.OblitusSumMe said:
Vote Revoke and move on from Brexit!dyedwoolie said:
Brexiteers and get it done remain preferrers, get them on board and you have a thumping majority at any electionChris said:
Any attempt to portray Merkel as the villain of the piece is going to lean very heavily on total ignorance of what's gone before.AlastairMeeks said:https://twitter.com/nicholaswatt/status/1181553633676189701
So was this Jeremy Hunt or Philip Hammond?
That's not to say it won't succeed, if Brexiteers are the target audience.
REVOKE - Leavers accuse Remainers of treachery, betrayal and cancelling democracy.
REFERENDUM - Leavers accuse Remainers of treachery, betrayal and cancelling democracy. And we have a bitter referendum campaign. And if Leave (in whatever way is on the ballot paper) wins we still have to negotiate the future trade agreement.
DEAL - Leavers accuse Remainers of treachery, betrayal and cancelling democracy. We still have to negotiate the future trade agreement.
NO DEAL - Leavers accuse the EU of treachery, betrayal and attempting to subvert British democracy. Remainers accuse Leavers of something horrid. We suffer economic damage. We still have to agree a preliminary deal with the EU to cover reciprocal citizen's rights, financial obligations and the Irish border before we can even start to negotiate the future trade agreement.
Revoke looks like the least hassle.0 -
It only Brexit happens/Jeremy happens everything will be great again and we will finally be living in a capitalist/socialist paradise. Anyone who says otherwise is a traitor/Blairite. Only my version of democracy is legitimate so do not accrue any value to the votes of that lot over there.Four legs good two legs bad etc. What ungrateful Ireland has some history? What happened over there then?
Trying to sum up the post 2016 national discussion.1 -
Norway can't get through the Irish red lines though.Nigel_Foremain said:
Your whole post is nonsense. Norway was often postulated as the model when Leave thought it was losing the argument.Philip_Thompson said:
Why would a soft Brexit honour that?Nigel_Foremain said:
No-deal Brexit is not "honouring" the referendum result, quite the reverse. To "honour" that somewhat dubious ballot, it might be sensible to go for a very soft Brexit, but definitely not an extremist no-deal Brexit that was not even discussed as a possible outcome during the campaign.basicbridge said:
Honouring a majority vote is not a "death cult".AlastairMeeks said:
God give me the confidence of the death cultists.dyedwoolie said:
Brexiteers and get it done remain preferrers, get them on board and you have a thumping majority at any electionChris said:
Any attempt to portray Merkel as the villain of the piece is going to lean very heavily on total ignorance of what's gone before.AlastairMeeks said:https://twitter.com/nicholaswatt/status/1181553633676189701
So was this Jeremy Hunt or Philip Hammond?
That's not to say it won't succeed, if Brexiteers are the target audience.
The death cultists are those who would block and frustrate that vote at every turn. The polls point to the enduring damage this is now doing to trust in politicians and political institutions. THAT is a much bigger long term problem than Brexit.
The government said if we voted to leave we would leave the Single Market.
The remain campaign said if we voted to leave we would leave the Single Market
The leave campaigns said if we voted to leave we would leave the Single Market.
The Labour Party, the SNP, the then PM, the current PM, the then Chancellor, the Leader of the Opposition all said if we voted to leave we would leave the Single Market.
The only thing everyone in power agreed on was that leave meant leaving the Single Market. The idea of a soft Brexit only came about after the result came in.0 -
Still kicking our heels for another week or so - the opposition won’t bring down the government- even though they can.0
-
No deal is not ignoring the referendum result. It is in accordance with the instructions of the voters who asked that the UK leave the EU. Nor more nor less. Now, the morons who voted for such an outcome and the morons who tried to implement such an outcome are a separate issue but, sadly, especially for those who can least afford it and likely most want it (along with the JRM elite), leaving with no deal would be a perfectly legitimate mode of leaving the EU and it would indeed "honour" the referendum result.Nigel_Foremain said:
As the government is by attempting to go for no-deal.AndyJS said:
Just ignore the referendum result.OblitusSumMe said:
Vote Revoke and move on from Brexit!dyedwoolie said:
Brexiteers and get it done remain preferrers, get them on board and you have a thumping majority at any electionChris said:
Any attempt to portray Merkel as the villain of the piece is going to lean very heavily on total ignorance of what's gone before.AlastairMeeks said:https://twitter.com/nicholaswatt/status/1181553633676189701
So was this Jeremy Hunt or Philip Hammond?
That's not to say it won't succeed, if Brexiteers are the target audience.0 -
The problem is that Brexit was sold on a false prospectus. You can’t make a false prospectus true.0
-
Well yes.Carnyx said:
Let me get this right. If A, B, C and D etc said that result X would be a disaster, that is your justification for going for result X, that it was 'discussed'?Philip_Thompson said:
Why would a soft Brexit honour that?Nigel_Foremain said:
No-deal Brexit is not "honouring" the referendum result, quite the reverse. To "honour" that somewhat dubious ballot, it might be sensible to go for a very soft Brexit, but definitely not an extremist no-deal Brexit that was not even discussed as a possible outcome during the campaign.basicbridge said:
Honouring a majority vote is not a "death cult".AlastairMeeks said:
God give me the confidence of the death cultists.dyedwoolie said:
Brexiteers and get it done remain preferrers, get them on board and you have a thumping majority at any electionChris said:
Any attempt to portray Merkel as the villain of the piece is going to lean very heavily on total ignorance of what's gone before.AlastairMeeks said:https://twitter.com/nicholaswatt/status/1181553633676189701
So was this Jeremy Hunt or Philip Hammond?
That's not to say it won't succeed, if Brexiteers are the target audience.
The death cultists are those who would block and frustrate that vote at every turn. The polls point to the enduring damage this is now doing to trust in politicians and political institutions. THAT is a much bigger long term problem than Brexit.
The government said if we voted to leave we would leave the Single Market.
The remain campaign said if we voted to leave we would leave the Single Market
The leave campaigns said if we voted to leave we would leave the Single Market.
The Labour Party, the SNP, the then PM, the current PM, the then Chancellor, the Leader of the Opposition all said if we voted to leave we would leave the Single Market.
The only thing everyone in power agreed on was that leave meant leaving the Single Market. The idea of a soft Brexit only came about after the result came in.
If A, B, C and D say "vote for option 2 and you get X and it will be a disaster" and the voters think "I want X" and vote for option 2 then absolutely A, B, C and D can't say afterwards that X wasn't discussed and has no mandate. Everyone agreed leaving the EU meant leaving the Single Market as much as idiots still share that stupid discredited video.0 -
During the referendum all parties I named confirmed that we would leave the Single Market. It was explicitly said by them all.Nigel_Foremain said:
Your whole post is nonsense. Norway was often postulated as the model when Leave thought it was losing the argument.Philip_Thompson said:
Why would a soft Brexit honour that?Nigel_Foremain said:
No-deal Brexit is not "honouring" the referendum result, quite the reverse. To "honour" that somewhat dubious ballot, it might be sensible to go for a very soft Brexit, but definitely not an extremist no-deal Brexit that was not even discussed as a possible outcome during the campaign.basicbridge said:
Honouring a majority vote is not a "death cult".AlastairMeeks said:
God give me the confidence of the death cultists.dyedwoolie said:
Brexiteers and get it done remain preferrers, get them on board and you have a thumping majority at any electionChris said:
Any attempt to portray Merkel as the villain of the piece is going to lean very heavily on total ignorance of what's gone before.AlastairMeeks said:https://twitter.com/nicholaswatt/status/1181553633676189701
So was this Jeremy Hunt or Philip Hammond?
That's not to say it won't succeed, if Brexiteers are the target audience.
The death cultists are those who would block and frustrate that vote at every turn. The polls point to the enduring damage this is now doing to trust in politicians and political institutions. THAT is a much bigger long term problem than Brexit.
The government said if we voted to leave we would leave the Single Market.
The remain campaign said if we voted to leave we would leave the Single Market
The leave campaigns said if we voted to leave we would leave the Single Market.
The Labour Party, the SNP, the then PM, the current PM, the then Chancellor, the Leader of the Opposition all said if we voted to leave we would leave the Single Market.
The only thing everyone in power agreed on was that leave meant leaving the Single Market. The idea of a soft Brexit only came about after the result came in.0 -
Nobody mentioned the Customs Union.Philip_Thompson said:
Why would a soft Brexit honour that?Nigel_Foremain said:
No-deal Brexit is not "honouring" the referendum result, quite the reverse. To "honour" that somewhat dubious ballot, it might be sensible to go for a very soft Brexit, but definitely not an extremist no-deal Brexit that was not even discussed as a possible outcome during the campaign.basicbridge said:
Honouring a majority vote is not a "death cult".AlastairMeeks said:
God give me the confidence of the death cultists.dyedwoolie said:
Brexiteers and get it done remain preferrers, get them on board and you have a thumping majority at any electionChris said:
Any attempt to portray Merkel as the villain of the piece is going to lean very heavily on total ignorance of what's gone before.AlastairMeeks said:https://twitter.com/nicholaswatt/status/1181553633676189701
So was this Jeremy Hunt or Philip Hammond?
That's not to say it won't succeed, if Brexiteers are the target audience.
The death cultists are those who would block and frustrate that vote at every turn. The polls point to the enduring damage this is now doing to trust in politicians and political institutions. THAT is a much bigger long term problem than Brexit.
The government said if we voted to leave we would leave the Single Market.
The remain campaign said if we voted to leave we would leave the Single Market
The leave campaigns said if we voted to leave we would leave the Single Market.
The Labour Party, the SNP, the then PM, the current PM, the then Chancellor, the Leader of the Opposition all said if we voted to leave we would leave the Single Market.
The only thing everyone in power agreed on was that leave meant leaving the Single Market. The idea of a soft Brexit only came about after the result came in.
0 -
Override the referendum result with a glorious majority Liberal Democrat government.AndyJS said:
Just ignore the referendum result.OblitusSumMe said:
Vote Revoke and move on from Brexit!dyedwoolie said:
Brexiteers and get it done remain preferrers, get them on board and you have a thumping majority at any electionChris said:
Any attempt to portray Merkel as the villain of the piece is going to lean very heavily on total ignorance of what's gone before.AlastairMeeks said:https://twitter.com/nicholaswatt/status/1181553633676189701
So was this Jeremy Hunt or Philip Hammond?
That's not to say it won't succeed, if Brexiteers are the target audience.0 -
+1 - I remember Leave shutting down the possibility as "Project Fear" any time it was mentioned.Nigel_Foremain said:
An interesting question for some pollster perhaps. How many people thought there was any possibility of the EU not giving us a deal? Slight problem of false recall by about 30% of the population though I suppose.Richard_Tyndall said:
It was discussed extensively by Remain and there are plenty of interview clips of Cameron saying it wss posdible. Not that it is my preferred course but to claim it was not discussed is just wrong. .Nigel_Foremain said:
No-deal Brexit is not "honouring" the referendum result, quite the reverse. To "honour" that somewhat dubious ballot, it might be sensible to go for a very soft Brexit, but definitely not an extremist no-deal Brexit that was not even discussed as a possible outcome during the campaign.basicbridge said:
Honouring a majority vote is not a "death cult".AlastairMeeks said:
God give me the confidence of the death cultists.dyedwoolie said:
Brexiteers and get it done remain preferrers, get them on board and you have a thumping majority at any electionChris said:
Any attempt to portray Merkel as the villain of the piece is going to lean very heavily on total ignorance of what's gone before.AlastairMeeks said:https://twitter.com/nicholaswatt/status/1181553633676189701
So was this Jeremy Hunt or Philip Hammond?
That's not to say it won't succeed, if Brexiteers are the target audience.
The death cultists are those who would block and frustrate that vote at every turn. The polls point to the enduring damage this is now doing to trust in politicians and political institutions. THAT is a much bigger long term problem than Brexit.
I can honestly say though, that even as a political nerd who followed the referendum closely, I never recall it being put forward as a possibility by Leave advocates. Anyone that can provide evidence of widespread discussion is welcome to disabuse me.0 -
Maybe but the famous "ballot paper question" made no mention of any prospectus. It just said stay or go.AlastairMeeks said:The problem is that Brexit was sold on a false prospectus. You can’t make a false prospectus true.
If people voted go on this basis then they were either informed and understood that no deal was a real possibility and believed that that was better than staying in; or they were thick as pigshit and are genuinely surprised and distressed that we are very likely about to leave with no deal; or they paid insufficient attention to the possibility that we could leave with no deal and don't care one way or another.0 -
I've just seen the poster of Angela.There are 3,000,000 UK citizens in EU countries at the moment and I am one of them.There is a really unpleasant underbelly to many of the Brexiteers which not enough people even on here seem prepared to acknowledge.1
-
Which do you reckon is the largest constituency of those three?TOPPING said:
Maybe but the famous "ballot paper question" made no mention of any prospectus. It just said stay or go.AlastairMeeks said:The problem is that Brexit was sold on a false prospectus. You can’t make a false prospectus true.
If people voted go on this basis then they were either informed and understood that no deal was a real possibility and believed that that was better than staying in; or they were thick as pigshit and are genuinely surprised and distressed that we are very likely about to leave with no deal; or they paid insufficient attention to the possibility that we could leave with no deal and don't care one way or another.
0 -
They are racists. ALL of them.Roger said:I've just seen the poster of Angela.There are 3,000,000 UK citizens in EU countries at the moment and I am one of them.There is a really unpleasant underbelly to many of the Brexiteers which not enough people even on on here are prepared to acknowledge.
0 -
Nah. Back to that ballot paper. Leaving the EU (formally, legally) while retaining Single Market and Customs Union membership, making it compulsory to speak French in public and giving EU immigrants a £100,000 arrival bonus would have been honouring the referendum result.Philip_Thompson said:
Why would a soft Brexit honour that?Nigel_Foremain said:
No-deal Brexit is not "honouring" the referendum result, quite the reverse. To "honour" that somewhat dubious ballot, it might be sensible to go for a very soft Brexit, but definitely not an extremist no-deal Brexit that was not even discussed as a possible outcome during the campaign.basicbridge said:
Honouring a majority vote is not a "death cult".AlastairMeeks said:
God give me the confidence of the death cultists.dyedwoolie said:
Brexiteers and get it done remain preferrers, get them on board and you have a thumping majority at any electionChris said:
Any attempt to portray Merkel as the villain of the piece is going to lean very heavily on total ignorance of what's gone before.AlastairMeeks said:https://twitter.com/nicholaswatt/status/1181553633676189701
So was this Jeremy Hunt or Philip Hammond?
That's not to say it won't succeed, if Brexiteers are the target audience.
The death cultists are those who would block and frustrate that vote at every turn. The polls point to the enduring damage this is now doing to trust in politicians and political institutions. THAT is a much bigger long term problem than Brexit.
The government said if we voted to leave we would leave the Single Market.
The remain campaign said if we voted to leave we would leave the Single Market
The leave campaigns said if we voted to leave we would leave the Single Market.
The Labour Party, the SNP, the then PM, the current PM, the then Chancellor, the Leader of the Opposition all said if we voted to leave we would leave the Single Market.
The only thing everyone in power agreed on was that leave meant leaving the Single Market. The idea of a soft Brexit only came about after the result came in.
Problem is, May failed to understand the difference between a general election win and a referendum win, and so omitted to embrace consensus, and so the loons took charge.0 -
The first is the minority. Then probably comes the third and then the second. The second of course includes some notable PB Brexiters and of course in that context "thick as pigshit" should be seen as a rhetorical flourish.Tabman said:
Which do you reckon is the largest constituency of those three?TOPPING said:
Maybe but the famous "ballot paper question" made no mention of any prospectus. It just said stay or go.AlastairMeeks said:The problem is that Brexit was sold on a false prospectus. You can’t make a false prospectus true.
If people voted go on this basis then they were either informed and understood that no deal was a real possibility and believed that that was better than staying in; or they were thick as pigshit and are genuinely surprised and distressed that we are very likely about to leave with no deal; or they paid insufficient attention to the possibility that we could leave with no deal and don't care one way or another.0 -
Canadian election:
Interesting to note that the projected number of Liberal seats has dropped by about 10 despite their share remaining the same as a couple of days ago. Maybe the model has been updated since then.
https://newsinteractives.cbc.ca/elections/poll-tracker/canada/0 -
AlastairMeeks said:
The problem is that Brexit was sold on a false prospectus. You can’t make a false prospectus true. </blockquo
This is just arrant nonsense. No government since the war has had a mandate on that basis.0 -
Sorry but any mention of No Deal was called Project Fear and remember Boris and Gove told us it would be the easiest deal in history.TOPPING said:
Maybe but the famous "ballot paper question" made no mention of any prospectus. It just said stay or go.AlastairMeeks said:The problem is that Brexit was sold on a false prospectus. You can’t make a false prospectus true.
If people voted go on this basis then they were either informed and understood that no deal was a real possibility and believed that that was better than staying in; or they were thick as pigshit and are genuinely surprised and distressed that we are very likely about to leave with no deal; or they paid insufficient attention to the possibility that we could leave with no deal and don't care one way or another.0 -
As someone who voted Remain but now backs Leave, I would definitely acknowledge the above. There’s a streak of xenophobia, an underbelly as you say, that I find repugnant especially as someone who is mixed race.Roger said:I've just seen the poster of Angela.There are 3,000,000 UK citizens in EU countries at the moment and I am one of them.There is a really unpleasant underbelly to many of the Brexiteers which not enough people even on on here are prepared to acknowledge.
Whatever happens, I think the reintroduction if these kind of tropes to mainstream political discussion after years of them being kept to the fringes is something we’re all going to regret.3 -
+1. It is disgusting the way some Brexiteers behave.Roger said:I've just seen the poster of Angela.There are 3,000,000 UK citizens in EU countries at the moment and I am one of them.There is a really unpleasant underbelly to many of the Brexiteers which not enough people even on here seem prepared to acknowledge.
0 -
AlastairMeeks said:
The Leave campaign explicitly and angrily disavowed the idea of a no deal Brexit. The chaos and disruption that would cause has no mandate.basicbridge said:
Honouring a majority vote is not a "death cult".AlastairMeeks said:
God give me the confidence of the death cultists.dyedwoolie said:
Brexiteers and get it done remain preferrers, get them on board and you have a thumping majority at any electionChris said:
Any attempt to portray Merkel as the villain of the piece is going to lean very heavily on total ignorance of what's gone before.AlastairMeeks said:https://twitter.com/nicholaswatt/status/1181553633676189701
So was this Jeremy Hunt or Philip Hammond?
That's not to say it won't succeed, if Brexiteers are the target audience.
The death cultists are those who would block and frustrate that vote at every turn. The polls point to the enduring damage this is now doing to trust in politicians and political institutions. THAT is a much bigger long term problem than Brexit.
What was on the ballot paper?0 -
The ballot paper has to be understood in the context of the way it was argued for. To say otherwise is as literalistic as to say that the referendum was an advisory vote.TOPPING said:
Maybe but the famous "ballot paper question" made no mention of any prospectus. It just said stay or go.AlastairMeeks said:The problem is that Brexit was sold on a false prospectus. You can’t make a false prospectus true.
If people voted go on this basis then they were either informed and understood that no deal was a real possibility and believed that that was better than staying in; or they were thick as pigshit and are genuinely surprised and distressed that we are very likely about to leave with no deal; or they paid insufficient attention to the possibility that we could leave with no deal and don't care one way or another.0 -
Just thought the current session of Parliament is currently the longest ever and ends tonight.
The new session starts next week but could be over within a few days for a general election... So we get the longest ever session of Parliament followed by the shortest.
UK politics totally crazy since 2014!
1 -
Then you must accept that the referendum was an advisory vote.basicbridge said:AlastairMeeks said:
The Leave campaign explicitly and angrily disavowed the idea of a no deal Brexit. The chaos and disruption that would cause has no mandate.basicbridge said:
Honouring a majority vote is not a "death cult".AlastairMeeks said:
God give me the confidence of the death cultists.dyedwoolie said:
Brexiteers and get it done remain preferrers, get them on board and you have a thumping majority at any electionChris said:
Any attempt to portray Merkel as the villain of the piece is going to lean very heavily on total ignorance of what's gone before.AlastairMeeks said:https://twitter.com/nicholaswatt/status/1181553633676189701
So was this Jeremy Hunt or Philip Hammond?
That's not to say it won't succeed, if Brexiteers are the target audience.
The death cultists are those who would block and frustrate that vote at every turn. The polls point to the enduring damage this is now doing to trust in politicians and political institutions. THAT is a much bigger long term problem than Brexit.
What was on the ballot paper?0 -
Nigel FarageNigel_Foremain said:
An interesting question for some pollster perhaps. How many people thought there was any possibility of the EU not giving us a deal? Slight problem of false recall by about 30% of the population though I suppose.Richard_Tyndall said:
It was discussed extensively by Remain and there are plenty of interview clips of Cameron saying it wss posdible. Not that it is my preferred course but to claim it was not discussed is just wrong. .Nigel_Foremain said:
No-deal Brexit is not "honouring" the referendum result, quite the reverse. To "honour" that somewhat dubious ballot, it might be sensible to go for a very soft Brexit, but definitely not an extremist no-deal Brexit that was not even discussed as a possible outcome during the campaign.basicbridge said:
Honouring a majority vote is not a "death cult".AlastairMeeks said:
God give me the confidence of the death cultists.dyedwoolie said:
Brexiteers and get it done remain preferrers, get them on board and you have a thumping majority at any electionChris said:
Any attempt to portray Merkel as the villain of the piece is going to lean very heavily on total ignorance of what's gone before.AlastairMeeks said:https://twitter.com/nicholaswatt/status/1181553633676189701
So was this Jeremy Hunt or Philip Hammond?
That's not to say it won't succeed, if Brexiteers are the target audience.
The death cultists are those who would block and frustrate that vote at every turn. The polls point to the enduring damage this is now doing to trust in politicians and political institutions. THAT is a much bigger long term problem than Brexit.
I can honestly say though, that even as a political nerd who followed the referendum closely, I never recall it being put forward as a possibility by Leave advocates. Anyone that can provide evidence of widespread discussion is welcome to disabuse me.
3rd June 2016: “Even if our friends in France and Italy decide to cut off their noses to spite their faces…it will better than the rotten deal we have now.”
8th June 2016 : “no deal is better than the rotten deal that we’ve got at the moment.”
0 -
Three prorogations in three months? Black Rod certainly has stamina.GIN1138 said:Just thought the current session of Parliament is currently the longest ever and ends tonight.
The new session starts next week but could be over within a few days for a general election... So we get the logest ever sessopm of Parliament followed by the shortest.
UK politics totally crazy since 2014!1 -
Nigel_Foremain said:
Well I had to look up what Pachinko is/was, but even then don't understand your point. Are you another deluded Bozo fanboy or are you being ironic?Pro_Rata said:
Another Pachinko random scenario drop...Nigel_Foremain said:
It wouldn't be so much guts required as stupidity. Not even Corbyn is dense enough to dance to Bozo's tune.TheValiant said:Is Parliament still being prorogued today? Do they have time to lay down a VoNC?
A better question, do they have the guts to do so? (No, they don't)
Boris could resign, get HMQ to send for Corbyn, he accepts and becomes PM without need to priorly demonstrate confidence, sends letter, gets HMQ to deliver his QS and sets off to deliver his Brexit.
Boris brings him down in his own time.
Nah, just still trying to work out Boris's various get outs from sending the letter, even if not getting out of sending the letter now seems odds on. The resign option requires him to no longer be PM, so he would need to name a successor whom at very least he would not challenge on confidence immediately, and I guess he would prefer not to blow up the Queen's Speech or subsequent debate, which overlaps the EU summit.Nigel_Foremain said:
Well I had to look up what Pachinko is/was, but even then don't understand your point. Are you another deluded Bozo fanboy or are you being ironic?Pro_Rata said:
Another Pachinko random scenario drop...Nigel_Foremain said:
It wouldn't be so much guts required as stupidity. Not even Corbyn is dense enough to dance to Bozo's tune.TheValiant said:Is Parliament still being prorogued today? Do they have time to lay down a VoNC?
A better question, do they have the guts to do so? (No, they don't)
Boris could resign, get HMQ to send for Corbyn, he accepts and becomes PM without need to priorly demonstrate confidence, sends letter, gets HMQ to deliver his QS and sets off to deliver his Brexit.
Boris brings him down in his own time.
So, I make today his last reasonable day for resign rather than send. Assuming reasonable at least has bearing on him when it suits.0 -
We are seeing what happens when the establishment won’t implement the result of a democratic vote.Northstar said:
As someone who voted Remain but now backs Leave, I would definitely acknowledge the above. There’s a streak of xenophobia, an underbelly as you say, that I find repugnant especially as someone who is mixed race.Roger said:I've just seen the poster of Angela.There are 3,000,000 UK citizens in EU countries at the moment and I am one of them.There is a really unpleasant underbelly to many of the Brexiteers which not enough people even on on here are prepared to acknowledge.
Whatever happens, I think the reintroduction if these kind of tropes to mainstream political discussion after years of them being kept to the fringes is something we’re all going to regret.1 -
The third will be a dissolution, not a prorogationRobD said:
Three prorogations in three months? Black Rod certainly has stamina.GIN1138 said:Just thought the current session of Parliament is currently the longest ever and ends tonight.
The new session starts next week but could be over within a few days for a general election... So we get the logest ever sessopm of Parliament followed by the shortest.
UK politics totally crazy since 2014!
0 -
The unpleasant underbelly (which is blind to Left, Right, Stay, Leave) is a result of unfettered access to the anonymity of the internet, brave unrestrained keyboard warriors and social media. Those are the things that have brought the unpleasantness to heightened levels.Roger said:I've just seen the poster of Angela.There are 3,000,000 UK citizens in EU countries at the moment and I am one of them.There is a really unpleasant underbelly to many of the Brexiteers which not enough people even on on here are prepared to acknowledge.
We see it here with once reasonable people posting such trash comments as ….. ………………. Insert your own example, as I don't want to honour any of them by repeating the detritus they post from the seclusion of their computer / phone in an effort to offend and seek attention for 5 milliseconds.2 -
Still lots of banging.dyedwoolie said:
The third will be a dissolution, not a prorogationRobD said:
Three prorogations in three months? Black Rod certainly has stamina.GIN1138 said:Just thought the current session of Parliament is currently the longest ever and ends tonight.
The new session starts next week but could be over within a few days for a general election... So we get the logest ever sessopm of Parliament followed by the shortest.
UK politics totally crazy since 2014! 0 -
Pretty impressive posting whilst in the middle of a wet dream.OblitusSumMe said:
Override the referendum result with a glorious majority Liberal Democrat government.AndyJS said:
Just ignore the referendum result.OblitusSumMe said:
Vote Revoke and move on from Brexit!dyedwoolie said:
Brexiteers and get it done remain preferrers, get them on board and you have a thumping majority at any electionChris said:
Any attempt to portray Merkel as the villain of the piece is going to lean very heavily on total ignorance of what's gone before.AlastairMeeks said:https://twitter.com/nicholaswatt/status/1181553633676189701
So was this Jeremy Hunt or Philip Hammond?
That's not to say it won't succeed, if Brexiteers are the target audience.2 -
It's impossible to argue with that. Making ourselves poorer, less free, less secure and more dependent on others is undoubtedly a way to leave the EU. That we were told this would not happen by those about to inflict it on us is neither here nor there. What does matter, though, is how the government intends to respond to this new reality. I see no signs that it has even the remotest idea.TOPPING said:
No deal is not ignoring the referendum result. It is in accordance with the instructions of the voters who asked that the UK leave the EU. Nor more nor less. Now, the morons who voted for such an outcome and the morons who tried to implement such an outcome are a separate issue but, sadly, especially for those who can least afford it and likely most want it (along with the JRM elite), leaving with no deal would be a perfectly legitimate mode of leaving the EU and it would indeed "honour" the referendum result.Nigel_Foremain said:
As the government is by attempting to go for no-deal.AndyJS said:
Just ignore the referendum result.OblitusSumMe said:
Vote Revoke and move on from Brexit!dyedwoolie said:
Brexiteers and get it done remain preferrers, get them on board and you have a thumping majority at any electionChris said:
Any attempt to portray Merkel as the villain of the piece is going to lean very heavily on total ignorance of what's gone before.AlastairMeeks said:https://twitter.com/nicholaswatt/status/1181553633676189701
So was this Jeremy Hunt or Philip Hammond?
That's not to say it won't succeed, if Brexiteers are the target audience.
0 -
And 'hilarious' input from Dennis SkinnerRobD said:
Still lots of banging.dyedwoolie said:
The third will be a dissolution, not a prorogationRobD said:
Three prorogations in three months? Black Rod certainly has stamina.GIN1138 said:Just thought the current session of Parliament is currently the longest ever and ends tonight.
The new session starts next week but could be over within a few days for a general election... So we get the logest ever sessopm of Parliament followed by the shortest.
UK politics totally crazy since 2014!0 -
So Farage will stand down, endorse Boris and if we assume at least half of the 13% for BPX goes to Con that will add another 6% on to Con's vote share and get them very close to 40% and a landslide (unless Jezza does something remarkable like in 2017)AndyJS said:"Number 10 source says party will fight election on no deal platform"
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/10/08/dominic-cummings-memo-brexit-talks-election/0 -
Yes that is a good point. There was a vote leave manifesto which was quickly forgotten. It became a case of "it's up to the government". And we know what happened then.AlastairMeeks said:
The ballot paper has to be understood in the context of the way it was argued for. To say otherwise is as literalistic as to say that the referendum was an advisory vote.TOPPING said:
Maybe but the famous "ballot paper question" made no mention of any prospectus. It just said stay or go.AlastairMeeks said:The problem is that Brexit was sold on a false prospectus. You can’t make a false prospectus true.
If people voted go on this basis then they were either informed and understood that no deal was a real possibility and believed that that was better than staying in; or they were thick as pigshit and are genuinely surprised and distressed that we are very likely about to leave with no deal; or they paid insufficient attention to the possibility that we could leave with no deal and don't care one way or another.0 -
Agreed!isam said:
We are seeing what happens when the establishment won’t implement the result of a democratic vote.Northstar said:
As someone who voted Remain but now backs Leave, I would definitely acknowledge the above. There’s a streak of xenophobia, an underbelly as you say, that I find repugnant especially as someone who is mixed race.Roger said:I've just seen the poster of Angela.There are 3,000,000 UK citizens in EU countries at the moment and I am one of them.There is a really unpleasant underbelly to many of the Brexiteers which not enough people even on on here are prepared to acknowledge.
Whatever happens, I think the reintroduction if these kind of tropes to mainstream political discussion after years of them being kept to the fringes is something we’re all going to regret.1 -
Yeah but the first one never actually happened because Tony Blairs Supreme Court said so.RobD said:
Three prorogations in three months? Black Rod certainly has stamina.GIN1138 said:Just thought the current session of Parliament is currently the longest ever and ends tonight.
The new session starts next week but could be over within a few days for a general election... So we get the logest ever sessopm of Parliament followed by the shortest.
UK politics totally crazy since 2014! 0 -
I remember all that but none of it was enshrined in statute.eek said:
Sorry but any mention of No Deal was called Project Fear and remember Boris and Gove told us it would be the easiest deal in history.TOPPING said:
Maybe but the famous "ballot paper question" made no mention of any prospectus. It just said stay or go.AlastairMeeks said:The problem is that Brexit was sold on a false prospectus. You can’t make a false prospectus true.
If people voted go on this basis then they were either informed and understood that no deal was a real possibility and believed that that was better than staying in; or they were thick as pigshit and are genuinely surprised and distressed that we are very likely about to leave with no deal; or they paid insufficient attention to the possibility that we could leave with no deal and don't care one way or another.0 -
And so will begin the country's last ever Tory government!GIN1138 said:
So Farage will stand down, endorse Boris and if we assume at least half of the 13 for BPX goes to Con that will add another 6% on to Con's vote share and get them very close to 40% and a landslide (unless Jezza does something remarkable like in 2017)AndyJS said:"Number 10 source says party will fight election on no deal platform"
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/10/08/dominic-cummings-memo-brexit-talks-election/
0 -
Talk me through that one again?Nigel_Foremain said:
An interesting question for some pollster perhaps. How many people thought there was any possibility of the EU not giving us a deal?Richard_Tyndall said:
It was discussed extensively by Remain and there are plenty of interview clips of Cameron saying it wss posdible. Not that it is my preferred course but to claim it was not discussed is just wrong. .Nigel_Foremain said:
No-deal Brexit is not "honouring" the referendum result, quite the reverse. To "honour" that somewhat dubious ballot, it might be sensible to go for a very soft Brexit, but definitely not an extremist no-deal Brexit that was not even discussed as a possible outcome during the campaign.basicbridge said:
Honouring a majority vote is not a "death cult".AlastairMeeks said:
God give me the confidence of the death cultists.dyedwoolie said:
Brexiteers and get it done remain preferrers, get them on board and you have a thumping majority at any electionChris said:
Any attempt to portray Merkel as the villain of the piece is going to lean very heavily on total ignorance of what's gone before.AlastairMeeks said:https://twitter.com/nicholaswatt/status/1181553633676189701
So was this Jeremy Hunt or Philip Hammond?
That's not to say it won't succeed, if Brexiteers are the target audience.
The death cultists are those who would block and frustrate that vote at every turn. The polls point to the enduring damage this is now doing to trust in politicians and political institutions. THAT is a much bigger long term problem than Brexit.
The EU are way more unreasonable and intransigent than Leave voters imagined, so the obvious conclusion is we should Remain after all?
"I went to my boss and said that i wasn't happy in my job and was thinking of leaving the company. He did nothing, so i said i was definitely leaving. Then he increased my hours and cut my pay and said no way was i leaving...so obviously i'm staying after all"
WTF are you on about?2 -
I think it is worse than that. Johnson seems as though he is needlessly going to inflict serious harm on the country.SouthamObserver said:
It's impossible to argue with that. Making ourselves poorer, less free, less secure and more dependent on others is undoubtedly a way to leave the EU. That we were told this would not happen by those about to inflict it on us is neither here nor there. What does matter, though, is how the government intends to respond to this new reality. I see no signs that it has even the remotest idea.TOPPING said:
No deal is not ignoring the referendum result. It is in accordance with the instructions of the voters who asked that the UK leave the EU. Nor more nor less. Now, the morons who voted for such an outcome and the morons who tried to implement such an outcome are a separate issue but, sadly, especially for those who can least afford it and likely most want it (along with the JRM elite), leaving with no deal would be a perfectly legitimate mode of leaving the EU and it would indeed "honour" the referendum result.Nigel_Foremain said:
As the government is by attempting to go for no-deal.AndyJS said:
Just ignore the referendum result.OblitusSumMe said:
Vote Revoke and move on from Brexit!dyedwoolie said:
Brexiteers and get it done remain preferrers, get them on board and you have a thumping majority at any electionChris said:
Any attempt to portray Merkel as the villain of the piece is going to lean very heavily on total ignorance of what's gone before.AlastairMeeks said:https://twitter.com/nicholaswatt/status/1181553633676189701
So was this Jeremy Hunt or Philip Hammond?
That's not to say it won't succeed, if Brexiteers are the target audience.0 -
Thanks Richard. Two quotes though, I think you will agree, is hardly a deluge of material, and even then this is pretty ambiguous stuff. No one fought for Leave with an unambiguous message that we might, or even should, leave without a deal. "Norway" as a model was often discussed.Richard_Tyndall said:
Nigel FarageNigel_Foremain said:
An interesting question for some pollster perhaps. How many people thought there was any possibility of the EU not giving us a deal? Slight problem of false recall by about 30% of the population though I suppose.Richard_Tyndall said:
It was discussed extensively by Remain and there are plenty of interview clips of Cameron saying it wss posdible. Not that it is my preferred course but to claim it was not discussed is just wrong. .Nigel_Foremain said:
No-deal Brexit is not "honouring" the referendum result, quite the reverse. To "honour" that somewhat dubious ballot, it might be sensible to go for a very soft Brexit, but definitely not an extremist no-deal Brexit that was not even discussed as a possible outcome during the campaign.basicbridge said:
Honouring a majority vote is not a "death cult".AlastairMeeks said:
God give me the confidence of the death cultists.dyedwoolie said:
Brexiteers and get it done remain preferrers, get them on board and you have a thumping majority at any electionChris said:
Any attempt to portray Merkel as the villain of the piece is going to lean very heavily on total ignorance of what's gone before.AlastairMeeks said:https://twitter.com/nicholaswatt/status/1181553633676189701
So was this Jeremy Hunt or Philip Hammond?
That's not to say it won't succeed, if Brexiteers are the target audience.
The death cultists are those who would block and frustrate that vote at every turn. The polls point to the enduring damage this is now doing to trust in politicians and political institutions. THAT is a much bigger long term problem than Brexit.
I can honestly say though, that even as a political nerd who followed the referendum closely, I never recall it being put forward as a possibility by Leave advocates. Anyone that can provide evidence of widespread discussion is welcome to disabuse me.
3rd June 2016: “Even if our friends in France and Italy decide to cut off their noses to spite their faces…it will better than the rotten deal we have now.”
8th June 2016 : “no deal is better than the rotten deal that we’ve got at the moment.”0 -
I would assume a majority of the other 7% wouldn’t vote at all. They won’t vote Lab, Green or anywayGIN1138 said:
So Farage will stand down, endorse Boris and if we assume at least half of the 13% for BPX goes to Con that will add another 6% on to Con's vote share and get them very close to 40% and a landslide (unless Jezza does something remarkable like in 2017)AndyJS said:"Number 10 source says party will fight election on no deal platform"
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/10/08/dominic-cummings-memo-brexit-talks-election/0 -
More to the point, the EU did reach a deal. But the death cult Leavers didn’t want it.JonCisBack said:
Talk me through that one again?Nigel_Foremain said:
An interesting question for some pollster perhaps. How many people thought there was any possibility of the EU not giving us a deal?Richard_Tyndall said:
It was discussed extensively by Remain and there are plenty of interview clips of Cameron saying it wss posdible. Not that it is my preferred course but to claim it was not discussed is just wrong. .Nigel_Foremain said:
No-deal Brexit is not "honouring" the referendum result, quite the reverse. To "honour" that somewhat dubious ballot, it might be sensible to go for a very soft Brexit, but definitely not an extremist no-deal Brexit that was not even discussed as a possible outcome during the campaign.basicbridge said:
Honouring a majority vote is not a "death cult".AlastairMeeks said:
God give me the confidence of the death cultists.dyedwoolie said:
Brexiteers and get it done remain preferrers, get them on board and you have a thumping majority at any electionChris said:
Any attempt to portray Merkel as the villain of the piece is going to lean very heavily on total ignorance of what's gone before.AlastairMeeks said:https://twitter.com/nicholaswatt/status/1181553633676189701
So was this Jeremy Hunt or Philip Hammond?
That's not to say it won't succeed, if Brexiteers are the target audience.
The death cultists are those who would block and frustrate that vote at every turn. The polls point to the enduring damage this is now doing to trust in politicians and political institutions. THAT is a much bigger long term problem than Brexit.
The EU are way more unreasonable and intransigent than Leave voters imagined, so the obvious conclusion is we should Remain after all?
"I went to my boss and said that i wasn't happy in my job and was thinking of leaving the company. He did nothing, so i said i was definitely leaving. Then he increased my hours and cut my pay and said no way was i leaving...so obviously i'm staying after all"
WTF are you on about?0 -
The Tories always survive. Like cockroaches they would survive an apocolypse...SouthamObserver said:
And so will begin the country's last ever Tory government!GIN1138 said:
So Farage will stand down, endorse Boris and if we assume at least half of the 13 for BPX goes to Con that will add another 6% on to Con's vote share and get them very close to 40% and a landslide (unless Jezza does something remarkable like in 2017)AndyJS said:"Number 10 source says party will fight election on no deal platform"
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/10/08/dominic-cummings-memo-brexit-talks-election/ 0 -
Everyone who wrote approvingly of the Merkel poster certainly are. But some who just lined up behind Farage and his racist posters are just thick as planksrpjs said:
They are racists. ALL of them.Roger said:I've just seen the poster of Angela.There are 3,000,000 UK citizens in EU countries at the moment and I am one of them.There is a really unpleasant underbelly to many of the Brexiteers which not enough people even on on here are prepared to acknowledge.
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