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edited March 2014 in General

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Nighthawks is now open

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  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    First?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 61,405
    FPT:
    Richard_Tyndall said:

    taffys said:

    The city certainly does not need uncontrolled immigration.

    Really? Even seen buses in central London at 5am on a week day? I have. They are often packed. Who do you think cleans and maintains all those giant office blocks on a daily basis?

    I'll give you a clue, the faces on those crowded buses aren't generally white. Neither are the ones standing at the bus stops on the freezing January mornings

    Makes use of and needs do not mean the same thing. The argument that an entirly unfettered and unrestrained City which gets everything it wants without question is always good for the country as a whole has clearly been disproved over the last few years. One also has to wonder how on earth the City managed to maintain its position as the financial centre if the world before all those foreign workers turned up if they are do vital to its existence.
    The City is a lot more pre-eminent in European (and even global) finance now that it was when I started work at Goldman in 1996.

    Back then, there were serious financial institutions based in Paris, Zurich, Frankfurt, and the like. And Goldman had a big satellite office in Frankfurt, and medium sized ones in Milan and Paris.

    Now most of them have moved the bulk of their operations to London: BNP's capital markets operations are here; both CS and UBS probably employ more people in London than Zurich, Berenberg has basically moved from Hamburg to London, and the German banks all have big London operations - certainly compared to the mid 1990s.


  • IOSIOS Posts: 1,450
    How many Old Etonians does it take to make a mess? I don't know - but Mike is right. The next tory leader will be state educated.
  • Stuart_DicksonStuart_Dickson Posts: 3,557
    'Johann Lamont shows Labour’s true colours – red in tooth and claw'
    Just occasionally in politics, the mask slips and political parties reveal what they really are – rather than what they would like us to believe they are. Today in Edinburgh we experienced one of those moments. Johann Lamont, the Scottish Labour Leader, unveiled... something fundamentally red in tooth and claw.

    Indeed, Lamont could not have taken a harder socialist approach had she grabbed a red flag and waved it from the rooftop of the Scottish Parliament building.

    ... The consequences of this would be staggering.

    ... narrow and absurd ...

    Why is this important for the rest of the country? Firstly because these plans will form one of the key platforms of Labour’s 2015 manifesto, but also because Lamont insists that she and Ed Miliband are singing from the same hymn sheet on this issue. Lamont’s advisers were talking this morning about how in tune the two leaders are...

    ... given that the overall message from Lamont was so overtly left-wing, UK voters should also take note. This was the real Scottish Labour Party here – not the one which pretends to sympathise with the squeezed middle classes or which tones down its socialist rhetoric. Being ‘progressive’ and ‘redistributive’ is what it wants to do and, if the Scottish and UK parties are indeed following the same course, then where Scotland goes first, the UK will follow.

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/03/johann-lamont-shows-labours-true-colours-red-in-tooth-and-claw/
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    UKIP was dominating the previous thread, and as UKIP -the party - is now getting 200± recruits a week it will soon overtake the L/dems, if it hasn't already, I will now offer my bi-monthly forecast for the 2015 GE; steady now, those at the back.

    The forecast for the number of UKIP seats that will be gained.......is.......wait for it............27.
    There now, that wasn't painful, was it?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,381
    edited March 2014
    FPT

    MikeK said:


    UKIP has been dominating this thread, and as UKIP -the party - is now getting 200± recruits a week it will soon overtake the L/dems, if it hasn't already, I will now offer my bi-monthly forecast for the 2015 GE; steady now, those at the back.

    The forecast for the number of UKIP seats that will be gained.......is.......wait for it............27.
    There now, that wasn't painful, was it?

    As usual you won't want a bet on that? Tell you what, you think 27 I will give you evens they get less than 7. £50?
  • compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371
    IOS said:

    How many Old Etonians does it take to make a mess? I don't know - but Mike is right. The next tory leader will be state educated.

    Pity the will never be PM ;-)
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    RE: Dorries article.
    Ms Dorries has published the email exchange she had with the Telegraph journalist.

    http://blog.dorries.org/id-2128-2014_3_How_they_try_to_skewer_an_MP!.aspx
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,381
    Number 1 is rather sad. Brogan really should have some idea of the incredibly small room for manouvre Osborne has in reality. This budget was written in 2010 and it really hasn't got any better.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    rcs1000 said:

    FPT:

    Richard_Tyndall said:

    taffys said:

    The city certainly does not need uncontrolled immigration.

    Really? Even seen buses in central London at 5am on a week day? I have. They are often packed. Who do you think cleans and maintains all those giant office blocks on a daily basis?

    I'll give you a clue, the faces on those crowded buses aren't generally white. Neither are the ones standing at the bus stops on the freezing January mornings

    Makes use of and needs do not mean the same thing. The argument that an entirly unfettered and unrestrained City which gets everything it wants without question is always good for the country as a whole has clearly been disproved over the last few years. One also has to wonder how on earth the City managed to maintain its position as the financial centre if the world before all those foreign workers turned up if they are do vital to its existence.
    The City is a lot more pre-eminent in European (and even global) finance now that it was when I started work at Goldman in 1996.

    Back then, there were serious financial institutions based in Paris, Zurich, Frankfurt, and the like. And Goldman had a big satellite office in Frankfurt, and medium sized ones in Milan and Paris.

    Now most of them have moved the bulk of their operations to London: BNP's capital markets operations are here; both CS and UBS probably employ more people in London than Zurich, Berenberg has basically moved from Hamburg to London, and the German banks all have big London operations - certainly compared to the mid 1990s.


    Quite right, Robert.

    In the 1980s the fear was that the Japanese banks were taking over the world and what they didn't want would move to Frankfurt.

    It took the Blessed Margaret to stand up to this threat. She alone realised that allowing Wall Street to operate unregulated in the square mile was the only way to feed unemployed miners.

    Of course there was risk. Occasionally the ball rolls into zero. But the banks bounce back.

    The UK's future rests far more in derivatives than dirigibles.

    Whatever Mr. Brooke says.

  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 26,052
    AveryLP said:

    rcs1000 said:

    FPT:

    Richard_Tyndall said:

    taffys said:

    The city certainly does not need uncontrolled immigration.

    Really? Even seen buses in central London at 5am on a week day? I have. They are often packed. Who do you think cleans and maintains all those giant office blocks on a daily basis?

    I'll give you a clue, the faces on those crowded buses aren't generally white. Neither are the ones standing at the bus stops on the freezing January mornings

    Makes use of and needs do not mean the same thing. The argument that an entirly unfettered and unrestrained City which gets everything it wants without question is always good for the country as a whole has clearly been disproved over the last few years. One also has to wonder how on earth the City managed to maintain its position as the financial centre if the world before all those foreign workers turned up if they are do vital to its existence.
    The City is a lot more pre-eminent in European (and even global) finance now that it was when I started work at Goldman in 1996.

    Back then, there were serious financial institutions based in Paris, Zurich, Frankfurt, and the like. And Goldman had a big satellite office in Frankfurt, and medium sized ones in Milan and Paris.

    Now most of them have moved the bulk of their operations to London: BNP's capital markets operations are here; both CS and UBS probably employ more people in London than Zurich, Berenberg has basically moved from Hamburg to London, and the German banks all have big London operations - certainly compared to the mid 1990s.


    Quite right, Robert.

    In the 1980s the fear was that the Japanese banks were taking over the world and what they didn't want would move to Frankfurt.

    It took the Blessed Margaret to stand up to this threat. She alone realised that allowing Wall Street to operate unregulated in the square mile was the only way to feed unemployed miners.

    Of course there was risk. Occasionally the ball rolls into zero. But the banks bounce back.

    The UK's future rests far more in derivatives than dirigibles.

    Whatever Mr. Brooke says.

    chortle

    Mr Pole faced with the prospect of some obvious troll bait and watching Shetland you've just lost :-)

    You could always do something useful break and up a couple of banks while I'm away.
  • IOSIOS Posts: 1,450
    It's quite funny that all the headlines about this budget are going to talk about Osborne making a pitch to be leader. But not as funny as Osborne thinking that being from St Pauls and not Eton is his main selling point.

    Posh lads destroying the Tory party. Genius.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    IOS said:

    How many Old Etonians does it take to make a mess? I don't know - but Mike is right. The next tory leader will be state educated.

    Eton mess .... Hhmmm

    I don't know .... this politics game make a right pudding of us all at times.

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 61,405
    Alanbrooke said:



    chortle

    Mr Pole faced with the prospect of some obvious troll bait and watching Shetland you've just lost :-)

    You could always do something useful break and up a couple of banks while I'm away.

    To defend the City for a moment, it's worth remembering that while trading is what people think of, that is only a small part of the puzzle.

    * We are the pre-eminent city for corporate finance. If an American company wants to issue bonds issued in Euros, Pounds, or even Yen - chances are the work will all be done in London.

    * For mergers and acquisitions, there is no city in the world - particularly in specialised areas like biotech, or energy - where more work gets done. If a Swiss pharmaceutical company buys an American biotech company. Guess what - the work gets done in London.

    * For fund management, London is one of the biggest three cities in the world.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    IOS said:

    It's quite funny that all the headlines about this budget are going to talk about Osborne making a pitch to be leader. But not as funny as Osborne thinking that being from St Pauls and not Eton is his main selling point.

    Posh lads destroying the Tory party. Genius.

    Faced with the choice between St. Pauls and Magdalen, and, Nottingham HS and Keble, most sane people would choose the former.

    It is not Ed's fault: merely the tyranny of small differences.

    Where did you go to school, IOS?

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,772
    I don't know where he got the idea

    Sun Politics
    ‏@Sun_Politics

    .@edvaizey a @onedirection fan? Minister uses SEVEN song titles in commons answer on boyband:

    http://bit.ly/1ehTtZA

    pic.twitter.com/3YotYgRAsi
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,772
    anotherDave said:

    RE: Dorries article.
    Ms Dorries has published the email exchange she had with the Telegraph journalist.

    http://blog.dorries.org/id-2128-2014_3_How_they_try_to_skewer_an_MP!.aspx

    Thanks, I've updated a link with that, and given you a hat tip.
  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    Benedict Brogan needs a sound Eton-style thrashing for introducing, and continuing to use, the eye-wateringly awful Aussie import "going gangbusters" at every opportunity. Urgh.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 33,584
    rcs1000 said:

    FPT:

    Richard_Tyndall said:

    taffys said:

    The city certainly does not need uncontrolled immigration.

    Really? Even seen buses in central London at 5am on a week day? I have. They are often packed. Who do you think cleans and maintains all those giant office blocks on a daily basis?

    I'll give you a clue, the faces on those crowded buses aren't generally white. Neither are the ones standing at the bus stops on the freezing January mornings

    Makes use of and needs do not mean the same thing. The argument that an entirly unfettered and unrestrained City which gets everything it wants without question is always good for the country as a whole has clearly been disproved over the last few years. One also has to wonder how on earth the City managed to maintain its position as the financial centre if the world before all those foreign workers turned up if they are do vital to its existence.
    The City is a lot more pre-eminent in European (and even global) finance now that it was when I started work at Goldman in 1996.

    Back then, there were serious financial institutions based in Paris, Zurich, Frankfurt, and the like. And Goldman had a big satellite office in Frankfurt, and medium sized ones in Milan and Paris.

    Now most of them have moved the bulk of their operations to London: BNP's capital markets operations are here; both CS and UBS probably employ more people in London than Zurich, Berenberg has basically moved from Hamburg to London, and the German banks all have big London operations - certainly compared to the mid 1990s.


    But I strongly suspect the ability to employ cheap immigrant labour to clean the toilets as taffys was suggesting was not the primary motive behind these companies moving to London.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,084
    Link 17:
    Exactly what I think. It's the simplest explanation.

    Link 20:
    It'll be cr@p. But at least it won't have Benedict Cumberbatch in.
  • nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800
    IOS said:

    It's quite funny that all the headlines about this budget are going to talk about Osborne making a pitch to be leader. But not as funny as Osborne thinking that being from St Pauls and not Eton is his main selling point.

    Posh lads destroying the Tory party. Genius.

    Immigration destroying the Labour Party. Hilarious.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 33,584
    JosiasJessop said:

    Link 17:
    Exactly what I think. It's the simplest explanation.

    Yep it seems very logical but sad as it destroys any lingering hope we might have had a that the passengers might still be alive somewhere.
  • IOSIOS Posts: 1,450
    Avery

    Not a public school! This is a discussion about how the Tories and the press are out of touch from the public. They just really haven't got a clue.

    The Tories really need to rehabilitate David Davis and then make him leader.
  • compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371
    JosiasJessop said:

    Link 17:
    Exactly what I think. It's the simplest explanation.

    Link 20:
    It'll be cr@p. But at least it won't have Benedict Cumberbatch in.

    Link 17:Eh, I am sure Andy JS linked the original article on here last night....bad form.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,772
    compouter2 said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    Link 17:
    Exactly what I think. It's the simplest explanation.

    Link 20:
    It'll be cr@p. But at least it won't have Benedict Cumberbatch in.

    Link 17:Eh, I am sure Andy JS linked the original article on here last night....bad form.
    I didn't see it, if I had, I would have acknowledged it.
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    compouter2 said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    Link 17:
    Exactly what I think. It's the simplest explanation.

    Link 20:
    It'll be cr@p. But at least it won't have Benedict Cumberbatch in.

    Link 17:Eh, I am sure Andy JS linked the original article on here last night....bad form.
    If that was the pilot's explanation based on the heading change and airport proximity that certainly seemed extremely plausible and was an interesting read.
  • compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    compouter2 said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    Link 17:
    Exactly what I think. It's the simplest explanation.

    Link 20:
    It'll be cr@p. But at least it won't have Benedict Cumberbatch in.

    Link 17:Eh, I am sure Andy JS linked the original article on here last night....bad form.
    I didn't see it, if I had, I would have acknowledged it.
    Don't worry Wired ripped it as well:

    https://plus.google.com/106271056358366282907/posts/GoeVjHJaGBz
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    "Tony Benn 'admired' Chairman Mao, responsible for the deaths of millions. Why is this ignored?"

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/seanthomas/100264023/tony-benn-admired-chairman-mao-responsible-for-the-deaths-of-millions-why-is-this-ignored/
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,772
    compouter2 said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    compouter2 said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    Link 17:
    Exactly what I think. It's the simplest explanation.

    Link 20:
    It'll be cr@p. But at least it won't have Benedict Cumberbatch in.

    Link 17:Eh, I am sure Andy JS linked the original article on here last night....bad form.
    I didn't see it, if I had, I would have acknowledged it.
    Don't worry Wired ripped it as well:

    https://plus.google.com/106271056358366282907/posts/GoeVjHJaGBz
    Link 14 was for you and Basil.
  • compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    compouter2 said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    compouter2 said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    Link 17:
    Exactly what I think. It's the simplest explanation.

    Link 20:
    It'll be cr@p. But at least it won't have Benedict Cumberbatch in.

    Link 17:Eh, I am sure Andy JS linked the original article on here last night....bad form.
    I didn't see it, if I had, I would have acknowledged it.
    Don't worry Wired ripped it as well:

    https://plus.google.com/106271056358366282907/posts/GoeVjHJaGBz
    Link 14 was for you and Basil.
    LOL!
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited March 2014
    IOS said:

    Avery

    Not a public school! This is a discussion about how the Tories and the press are out of touch from the public. They just really haven't got a clue.

    The Tories really need to rehabilitate David Davis and then make him leader.

    Don't worry about the Tories. IOS. The Eton Pop will select the party's next leader in time honoured tradition.

    Nineteen up already and plenty more to come.

    Unless Gove's reforms succeed. That is why he is seen in the party as a dangerous man.

    Get your children into a Free School quick is my advice. At least it will give you the chance of enjoying a vicarious sense of political success.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    "Former CIA Analyst: The Disappearance Of #MH370 Has Been More Skillfully Executed Than 9-11":

    http://patdollard.com/2014/03/former-cia-analyst-the-disappearance-of-mh370-has-been-more-skillfully-executed-than-9-11/
  • compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371
    Christ on a Bike! You have to report grey squirrels. Basil was originally a red squirrel, however, he has turned grey and a bit loopy with all the carrying he has been doing over the last twelve months.

    http://i.imgur.com/LwXST.jpg
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    "Asian military officials may be staging a mass cover-up over missing flight MH370, because they do not want to expose gaping holes within their countries' air defences, a leading aviation expert has suggested.

    The Malaysian Airlines jet went missing 1.30am on Sunday, March 9. But it wasn't until the following Tuesday that the Malaysian Air Force reported they had spotted the aircraft on radar over the Strait of Malacca at 2.15am.

    Now Thailand's military say they detected a plane at 1.28am, eight minutes after MH370's communications went down, heading towards the Strait but didn't share the information because they were not asked for it.

    Writing on his blog, Aviation expert David Learmount said: 'Maybe these states’ air defences, like Malaysia’s, are not what they are cracked up to be.

    'And maybe they wouldn’t want the rest of the world to know that.'

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2583553/Thai-military-says-missing-flight-MH370-followed-twisting-path-Strait-Malacca.html
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,084
    Richard_Tyndall said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    Link 17:
    Exactly what I think. It's the simplest explanation.

    Yep it seems very logical but sad as it destroys any lingering hope we might have had a that the passengers might still be alive somewhere.
    I gave up hope on that a couple of days after the flight went missing. There are few scenarios where they would still be alive, but I hope I am wrong.

    Thanks to AndyJS for posting it originally, and TSE for his reminder. ;-)

    As an aside and almost totally unrelated, and just to show that weird things do happen, I present the Cornfield Bomber. A F-106 pilot ejected when his plane got into a flat spin, but the ejection stopped the spin and the plane continued to belly-land in a field. It was so lightly damaged that it was repaired and flown again. It is now in a museum.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornfield_Bomber

    I love that story.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,926
    AndyJS said:

    "Tony Benn 'admired' Chairman Mao, responsible for the deaths of millions. Why is this ignored?"
    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/seanthomas/100264023/tony-benn-admired-chairman-mao-responsible-for-the-deaths-of-millions-why-is-this-ignored/

    Sean posted that here last night.

    I posted on here, in response:

    Do you admire Churchill?

    Was he responsible for 3 million deaths during the Bengal famine of 1943?

    Bengal bore the brunt of the gathering disaster. At least 1.5 million died as a direct result of the famine which began at the end of 1942 and last all through the following year. A similar number again are estimated to have perished through disease - cholera, malaria and smallpox - because they were so malnourished that they had no resistance. Churchill, already furious with India, refused to interfere with the shipping programme to bring relief. Only when Field Marshall Wavell was made viceroy in September 1943 did the government of India begin to get a firm grip on the problem by using troops to distribute food reserves. Wavell made himself even more unpopular with Churchill by pursuing this policy. The whole episode was probably the most shameful in the history of the British Raj. If nothing else, it completely undermined the imperialist argument that British rule protected the poor of India from the rich.

    - Antony Beevor, "The Second World War", Phoenix Books (2013).
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,926
    "Gazprom - UEFA Champions League sponsors"

    :)
  • Donald_PDonald_P Posts: 1
    The Scottish Parliament petition for a referendum on the status of Shetland etc. a week after the Scottish referendum is a game-changer north of the border.

    Ben Riley-Smith in the Telegraph:
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/10705477/Shetland-and-Orkney-should-get-vote-on-whether-to-leave-Scotland.html

    The petition itself is here:
    http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/GettingInvolved/Petitions/islandgroups

    The options would be:
    1) do you wish your island group to become an independent country?
    2) do you wish your island group to stay in Scotland?
    and if the Scotland result is "yes", there would be the third option:
    3) do you wish your island group to leave Scotland and stay in rUK?

    This and the financial uncertainty are going to outweigh the Commonwealth Games in my opinion. Momentum-wise it could be all over before the Games start.
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    Donald_P said:

    The Scottish Parliament petition for a referendum on the status of Shetland etc. a week after the Scottish referendum is a game-changer north of the border.

    Ben Riley-Smith in the Telegraph:
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/10705477/Shetland-and-Orkney-should-get-vote-on-whether-to-leave-Scotland.html

    The petition itself is here:
    http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/GettingInvolved/Petitions/islandgroups

    The options would be:
    1) do you wish your island group to become an independent country?
    2) do you wish your island group to stay in Scotland?
    and if the Scotland result is "yes", there would be the third option:
    3) do you wish your island group to leave Scotland and stay in rUK?

    This and the financial uncertainty are going to outweigh the Commonwealth Games in my opinion. Momentum-wise it could be all over before the Games start.

    *tears of laughter etc.*

    Comedy Gold.

  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,926
    edited March 2014
    JosiasJessop said:

    Richard_Tyndall said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    Link 17:
    Exactly what I think. It's the simplest explanation.

    Yep it seems very logical but sad as it destroys any lingering hope we might have had a that the passengers might still be alive somewhere.
    I gave up hope on that a couple of days after the flight went missing. There are few scenarios where they would still be alive, but I hope I am wrong.

    Thanks to AndyJS for posting it originally, and TSE for his reminder. ;-)

    As an aside and almost totally unrelated, and just to show that weird things do happen, I present the Cornfield Bomber. A F-106 pilot ejected when his plane got into a flat spin, but the ejection stopped the spin and the plane continued to belly-land in a field. It was so lightly damaged that it was repaired and flown again. It is now in a museum.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornfield_Bomber

    I love that story.
    < pedant >
    Wasn't the Convair F-106 Delta Dart actually a fighter?
    < /pedant >
  • IOSIOS Posts: 1,450
    No kids Avery.

    But even if Gove somehow increased social mobility it wouldn't change the Tory party. Gone are the days of the ruthless Tory machine of the 1980's. Now its just a sort of drinking club for people from the upper classes.

    But that's all good cos the upper class drinking buddies aren't very good at winning elections.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    Is YouGob's pre-budget confirmation of a large Labour lead in yet?

    I want one last laugh at compouter and Basil before George scores from the penalty spot.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,084
    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    Richard_Tyndall said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    Link 17:
    Exactly what I think. It's the simplest explanation.

    Yep it seems very logical but sad as it destroys any lingering hope we might have had a that the passengers might still be alive somewhere.
    I gave up hope on that a couple of days after the flight went missing. There are few scenarios where they would still be alive, but I hope I am wrong.

    Thanks to AndyJS for posting it originally, and TSE for his reminder. ;-)

    As an aside and almost totally unrelated, and just to show that weird things do happen, I present the Cornfield Bomber. A F-106 pilot ejected when his plane got into a flat spin, but the ejection stopped the spin and the plane continued to belly-land in a field. It was so lightly damaged that it was repaired and flown again. It is now in a museum.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornfield_Bomber

    I love that story.
    < pedant >
    Wasn't the Convair F-106 Delta Dagger actually a fighter?
    < /pedant >
    Yep. To be more pedantic, an interceptor.

    But you'd need to be pedantic to the hundreds of article writers (and Wiki) who've been using the phrase "Cornfield Bomber" for decades. ;-)
  • compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371
    AveryLP said:

    Is YouGob's pre-budget confirmation of a large Labour lead in yet?

    I want one last laugh at compouter and Basil before George scores from the penalty spot.

    Trying to cry in a lower Labour lead I see Avery.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited March 2014
    IOS said:

    No kids Avery.

    But even if Gove somehow increased social mobility it wouldn't change the Tory party. Gone are the days of the ruthless Tory machine of the 1980's. Now its just a sort of drinking club for people from the upper classes.

    But that's all good cos the upper class drinking buddies aren't very good at winning elections.

    IOS

    Before JackW steps in to correct you, the current cabinet bunch are not drawn from the British upper classes.

    Upper middle class mostly, but this is as important a difference as that between Nottingham HS and St. Pauls and Magdalen and Keble.

    Attention to detail is all, IOS. You will have no chances of winning Cornwall without it.

  • compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371
    Tonight Yougov - Labour 4% lead....nailed on.
  • compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371
    BLUE ON BLUE INCOMING:

    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/5515443/eric-pickles-latest-tory-to-wade-in-to-old-etonians-war.html
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    YouGov/Sun poll tonight - Labour lead drops back down to four points: CON 34%, LAB 38%, LD 11%, UKIP 11%
  • IOSIOS Posts: 1,450
    Ha Avery the detail was we were never going to win cornwall. But as anyone will tell you when you are arguing detail you have already lost.

    The public think the Tories are all Toffs and it's hollowing out their party.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    compouter2 said:

    AveryLP said:

    Is YouGob's pre-budget confirmation of a large Labour lead in yet?

    I want one last laugh at compouter and Basil before George scores from the penalty spot.

    Trying to cry in a lower Labour lead I see Avery.
    You know the pattern, 'pouter.

    Stop quibbling. You only have a few days left as beast of burden. Man up and thank me for pointing this out.
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362

    Sun Politics @Sun_Politics

    YouGov/Sun poll tonight - Labour lead drops back down to four points: CON 34%, LAB 38%, LD 11%, UKIP 11%

  • compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371
    Danny565 said:

    YouGov/Sun poll tonight - Labour lead drops back down to four points: CON 34%, LAB 38%, LD 11%, UKIP 11%

    GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAL!!!
  • compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371
    compouter2 said:

    Tonight Yougov - Labour 4% lead....nailed on.

    Err.....as I was saying.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    compouter2 said:

    Tonight Yougov - Labour 4% lead....nailed on.

    I am beginning to think Tom Newton-Dunn and Mr. Brooke's MP might be reading PB!

  • compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371
    AveryLP said:

    compouter2 said:

    Tonight Yougov - Labour 4% lead....nailed on.

    I am beginning to think Tom Newton-Dunn and Mr. Brooke's MP might be reading PB!

    Nah, Basil tipped me off then stormed off in a strop knowing another day another carry.
  • nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800
    IOS said:

    No kids Avery.

    But even if Gove somehow increased social mobility it wouldn't change the Tory party. Gone are the days of the ruthless Tory machine of the 1980's. Now its just a sort of drinking club for people from the upper classes.

    But that's all good cos the upper class drinking buddies aren't very good at winning elections.

    IOS is that really all the left have to offer? Don't vote Tory because they went to public school?

    Personally I couldn't care if the PM went to Eton or Feltham Young Offenders Institute as long as they were the best person for the job. Then again I am not contaminated with inverted snobbery.
  • GrandioseGrandiose Posts: 2,323
    "Nigel Farage reverses party’s stance on same-sex marriage legislation, saying he would not annul marriages in government" could be useful for the Tories, *if* they can find a way of using it that doesn't look like preaching.
  • john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    RED ON RED INCOMING

    'http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/carwyn-jones-attacks-ann-clwyd-
  • compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371
    AveryLP said:

    compouter2 said:

    AveryLP said:

    Is YouGob's pre-budget confirmation of a large Labour lead in yet?

    I want one last laugh at compouter and Basil before George scores from the penalty spot.

    Trying to cry in a lower Labour lead I see Avery.
    You know the pattern, 'pouter.

    Stop quibbling. You only have a few days left as beast of burden. Man up and thank me for pointing this out.
    Yes I remember the pattern. Labours lead falls, you make a prediction of crossover, name the date, date passes, you name another date, that passes, name another date, that passes.....then you go quiet for months about polling crossovers.
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    Labour Press Team ‏@labourpress · 1 min
    READ: The 24 tax rises under George Osborne. http://press.labour.org.uk/post/80005175414/24-tory-tax-rises-under-george-osborne … #Budget2014

    Goody -So labour,tell us which one's you would cut out of the 24

    George Eaton ‏@georgeeaton · 2 mins
    Labour spokesman tells me that party is "not opposed" to all 24 tax rises, just reminding voters that taxes have increased

    'Crying with laughter' is this party really fit for Government.

  • jimogroatsjimogroats Posts: 13

    Cabinet Minister - There will be no EU referendum

    'But in one of the most eye-catching statements of the evening, Mr Carmicheal said, to gasps of surprise among the audience:

    “There is no question of there being a referendum. There is no mechanism for the Conservatives to deliver a referendum 2017. That is the hard political fact.” '


    http://www.farmersguardian.com/home/latest-news/sparks-fly-at-nfus-scottish-independence-debate/63097.article
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    Yesterday I noted that Jim Irsay had been arrested for DWI and possession of controlled substances.

    He has voluntarily checked into a rehab center. He's been battling his addictions for about 15 years that I know about, so how long he's had this problem I don't know..

    In his defense he's been a good owner - he's made good decisons, hired good personnel.

    The man needs help and I hope he gets it.
  • compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371
    Just seen a poll on who the public think will benefit the most from the budget on ITV News:

    16% - Benefit the public overall
    55% - Benefit high earners
    51% - Benefit the banks

    .....and there is the future Baronet of Ballintaylor and Ballylemons problem.
  • compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371
    john_zims said:

    RED ON RED INCOMING

    'http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/carwyn-jones-attacks-ann-clwyd-

    Keep up John - It was linked hours ago.
  • compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371
    Tykejohnno said:

    Labour Press Team ‏@labourpress · 1 min
    READ: The 24 tax rises under George Osborne. http://press.labour.org.uk/post/80005175414/24-tory-tax-rises-under-george-osborne … #Budget2014

    Goody -So labour,tell us which one's you would cut out of the 24

    George Eaton ‏@georgeeaton · 2 mins
    Labour spokesman tells me that party is "not opposed" to all 24 tax rises, just reminding voters that taxes have increased

    'Crying with laughter' is this party really fit for Government.

    Wait until that Corby result is announced, tears of joy not laughter ;-)
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    Tom Newton Dunn ‏@tnewtondunn · 1 min
    New 12 sided £1 coin to be unveiled in the Budget tomorrow - old one scrapped; http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/5516192/new-12-sided-pound-coin.html …

    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/5516192/new-12-sided-pound-coin.html
  • compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371
    Tykejohnno said:

    Tom Newton Dunn ‏@tnewtondunn · 1 min
    New 12 sided £1 coin to be unveiled in the Budget tomorrow - old one scrapped; http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/5516192/new-12-sided-pound-coin.html …

    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/5516192/new-12-sided-pound-coin.html

    One side for each member of the cabinet who has stabbed another one in the back in the last few days?
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    compouter2 said:

    Tykejohnno said:

    Tom Newton Dunn ‏@tnewtondunn · 1 min
    New 12 sided £1 coin to be unveiled in the Budget tomorrow - old one scrapped; http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/5516192/new-12-sided-pound-coin.html …

    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/5516192/new-12-sided-pound-coin.html

    One side for each member of the cabinet who has stabbed another one in the back in the last few days?
    Or how many times labour have used the bank bonus tax on different policies ;-)
  • compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371
    Tykejohnno said:

    compouter2 said:

    Tykejohnno said:

    Tom Newton Dunn ‏@tnewtondunn · 1 min
    New 12 sided £1 coin to be unveiled in the Budget tomorrow - old one scrapped; http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/5516192/new-12-sided-pound-coin.html …

    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/5516192/new-12-sided-pound-coin.html

    One side for each member of the cabinet who has stabbed another one in the back in the last few days?
    Or how many times labour have used the bank bonus tax on different policies ;-)
    Nah, it's dozens more than that.
  • john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    @compouter2

    'Just seen a poll on who the public think will benefit the most from the budget on ITV News:'

    At least all the millionaires on Labour's front bench will be happy.

  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    compouter2 said:

    AveryLP said:

    compouter2 said:

    Tonight Yougov - Labour 4% lead....nailed on.

    I am beginning to think Tom Newton-Dunn and Mr. Brooke's MP might be reading PB!

    Nah, Basil tipped me off then stormed off in a strop knowing another day another carry.
    I'm shocked. A good leftie squirrel like Basil living off carry. I hope he's reporting it as income rather than pretending it is capital gains
  • compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371
    BLUE ON BLUE INCOMING:

    It's a present that just keeps giving:

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/sebastian-payne/2014/03/how-much-do-voters-care-about-old-etonians-and-the-political-class/
  • compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371
    Charles said:

    compouter2 said:

    AveryLP said:

    compouter2 said:

    Tonight Yougov - Labour 4% lead....nailed on.

    I am beginning to think Tom Newton-Dunn and Mr. Brooke's MP might be reading PB!

    Nah, Basil tipped me off then stormed off in a strop knowing another day another carry.
    I'm shocked. A good leftie squirrel like Basil living off carry. I hope he's reporting it as income rather than pretending it is capital gains
    Pays it all off in nuts by the end of the tax year.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    Tykejohnno said:

    Tom Newton Dunn ‏@tnewtondunn · 1 min
    New 12 sided £1 coin to be unveiled in the Budget tomorrow - old one scrapped; http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/5516192/new-12-sided-pound-coin.html …

    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/5516192/new-12-sided-pound-coin.html

    The FT has the best headline:


    Osborne loses pound and finds threepence
    George Osborne is to scrap the current £1 coin and replace it with a 12-sided version reminiscent of the old threepenny bit, in a Budget move that may appeal to the patriotism and nostalgia of a key section of the electorate.

    http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/1c09077a-aeca-11e3-aaa6-00144feab7de.html#axzz2wITGTby0
  • compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371
    john_zims said:

    @compouter2

    'Just seen a poll on who the public think will benefit the most from the budget on ITV News:'

    At least all the millionaires on Labour's front bench will be happy.

    Yeah, but the public think of millionaires helping millionaires and think of the Tory Party....no?
  • nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800
    compouter2 said:

    BLUE ON BLUE INCOMING:

    It's a present that just keeps giving:

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/sebastian-payne/2014/03/how-much-do-voters-care-about-old-etonians-and-the-political-class/

    Zzzzzzzzzzzz
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    Tykejohnno said:

    Tom Newton Dunn ‏@tnewtondunn · 1 min
    New 12 sided £1 coin to be unveiled in the Budget tomorrow - old one scrapped; http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/5516192/new-12-sided-pound-coin.html …

    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/5516192/new-12-sided-pound-coin.html

    Oh look... they've brought back the Thruppenny Bit...

    It's not April 1st, tomorrow, is it?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    edited March 2014
    compouter2 said:

    Charles said:

    compouter2 said:

    AveryLP said:

    compouter2 said:

    Tonight Yougov - Labour 4% lead....nailed on.

    I am beginning to think Tom Newton-Dunn and Mr. Brooke's MP might be reading PB!

    Nah, Basil tipped me off then stormed off in a strop knowing another day another carry.
    I'm shocked. A good leftie squirrel like Basil living off carry. I hope he's reporting it as income rather than pretending it is capital gains
    Pays it all off in nuts by the end of the tax year.
    Clever boy. Nuts, being perishable, are completely tax free ;-)
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,926
    compouter2 said:

    Charles said:

    compouter2 said:

    AveryLP said:

    compouter2 said:

    Tonight Yougov - Labour 4% lead....nailed on.

    I am beginning to think Tom Newton-Dunn and Mr. Brooke's MP might be reading PB!

    Nah, Basil tipped me off then stormed off in a strop knowing another day another carry.
    I'm shocked. A good leftie squirrel like Basil living off carry. I hope he's reporting it as income rather than pretending it is capital gains
    Pays it all off in nuts by the end of the tax year.
    Might be a "kernel" of truth in that :)
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,543
    edited March 2014
    Wonder how much it is going to cost self service check-out, vending machines etc to be able to take this new £1? Didn't they claim the new "cheaper" 5p / 10p coins will cost some crazy amount to convert machines to accept.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,789
    CarlottaVance said:

    Tykejohnno said:

    Tom Newton Dunn ‏@tnewtondunn · 1 min
    New 12 sided £1 coin to be unveiled in the Budget tomorrow - old one scrapped; http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/5516192/new-12-sided-pound-coin.html …

    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/5516192/new-12-sided-pound-coin.html

    The FT has the best headline:


    Osborne loses pound and finds threepence
    George Osborne is to scrap the current £1 coin and replace it with a 12-sided version reminiscent of the old threepenny bit, in a Budget move that may appeal to the patriotism and nostalgia of a key section of the electorate.

    http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/1c09077a-aeca-11e3-aaa6-00144feab7de.html#axzz2wITGTby0
    That's silly. Presumably the Budget is supposed to have good stuff. It'll get diluted by this sort of thing, which is best kept for a slow news day.

  • compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371
    edited March 2014
    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    compouter2 said:

    Charles said:

    compouter2 said:

    AveryLP said:

    compouter2 said:

    Tonight Yougov - Labour 4% lead....nailed on.

    I am beginning to think Tom Newton-Dunn and Mr. Brooke's MP might be reading PB!

    Nah, Basil tipped me off then stormed off in a strop knowing another day another carry.
    I'm shocked. A good leftie squirrel like Basil living off carry. I hope he's reporting it as income rather than pretending it is capital gains
    Pays it all off in nuts by the end of the tax year.
    Might be a "kernel" of truth in that :)
    All above board, never works for cashew in hand.

    http://www.massvacation.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Squirrel_670x400-copy.jpg
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    It's a refreshing change for Osborne not to have leaked every last detail of the Red Book in advance of the Budget, it might even work for him.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Any good tips for Budget specials?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    edited March 2014
    The BBC has more details on the new pound:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-26632863

    I think it looks great!

    Edit- the FT have replaced "Osborne" with "UK" in their headline......which makes it less funny....
  • GrandioseGrandiose Posts: 2,323
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Wonder how much it is going to cost self service check-out, vending machines etc to be able to take this new £1? Didn't they claim the new "cheaper" 5p / 10p coins will cost some crazy amount to convert machines to accept.

    Presumably the dual metal and twelve sides are an attempt to keep the same basic proportions. How much had to be done for the £2?
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Su n splashing that there will be a cut in bingo tax...
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,769
    edited March 2014
    CarlottaVance said:

    Tykejohnno said:

    Tom Newton Dunn ‏@tnewtondunn · 1 min
    New 12 sided £1 coin to be unveiled in the Budget tomorrow - old one scrapped; http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/5516192/new-12-sided-pound-coin.html …

    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/5516192/new-12-sided-pound-coin.html

    The FT has the best headline:


    Osborne loses pound and finds threepence
    George Osborne is to scrap the current £1 coin and replace it with a 12-sided version reminiscent of the old threepenny bit, in a Budget move that may appeal to the patriotism and nostalgia of a key section of the electorate.

    http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/1c09077a-aeca-11e3-aaa6-00144feab7de.html#axzz2wITGTby0
    This is the design of the new 12-sided coin:
    http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTU5OVgxNjAw/z/YBYAAMXQkl9RdIS8/$(KGrHqN,!rMFEPcvoBNsBRdIS7yzPQ~~60_57.JPG

    It's designed to appeal to swing-voting Dungeons and Dragons fans in key marginals.
  • IOSIOS Posts: 1,450
    Osborne must have some big news for tomorrow. The main reason why the budget went so wrong in 2012 was that all the good stuff was leaked and then on the day the press only had the bad stuff to talk about.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    IOS said:

    Osborne must have some big news for tomorrow.

    I doubt it. There wont be enough money to do much other than raise the personal allowance. Nothing wrong with a boring budget.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    AndyJS said:

    "Tony Benn 'admired' Chairman Mao, responsible for the deaths of millions. Why is this ignored?"
    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/seanthomas/100264023/tony-benn-admired-chairman-mao-responsible-for-the-deaths-of-millions-why-is-this-ignored/

    Sean posted that here last night.

    I posted on here, in response:

    Do you admire Churchill?

    Was he responsible for 3 million deaths during the Bengal famine of 1943?

    Bengal bore the brunt of the gathering disaster. At least 1.5 million died as a direct result of the famine which began at the end of 1942 and last all through the following year. A similar number again are estimated to have perished through disease - cholera, malaria and smallpox - because they were so malnourished that they had no resistance. Churchill, already furious with India, refused to interfere with the shipping programme to bring relief. Only when Field Marshall Wavell was made viceroy in September 1943 did the government of India begin to get a firm grip on the problem by using troops to distribute food reserves. Wavell made himself even more unpopular with Churchill by pursuing this policy. The whole episode was probably the most shameful in the history of the British Raj. If nothing else, it completely undermined the imperialist argument that British rule protected the poor of India from the rich.

    - Antony Beevor, "The Second World War", Phoenix Books (2013).
    Thanks, interesting stuff.
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @AndyJS

    HIs views on poison gas were interesting as well
  • IOSIOS Posts: 1,450
    No nothing wrong with boring. But if you spin the good stuff early and deliver the bad on the day what are the press going to cover?
  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    The pound in your pocket will turn into a thruppeny bit - result.
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    Smarmeron said:

    @AndyJS

    HIs views on poison gas were interesting as well

    Churchill was a fecking disaster, from start to finish.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Blaming Churchill for the Bengal Famine is a bit of a stretch. His actions may have exacerbated the problems, but the origin of the famine was in the loss of Burmese rice imports when Burma was occupied by the Japanese, exacerbated by the cyclone and fungal induced failure of the Bengal crop. Pre-war Bengal was extensively dependent on imported Burmese rice.

    The British Imperial policy of keeping coastal boats and rice stocks remote from the Bengal coast was an anti-Japanese move, not an anti Indian one. There was a very genuine fear of a Japanese invasion of Bengal, and indeed the following year there was an attempt culminating in the epic battles of Kohima and Imphal. There were many Indian troops fighting with the INA under the command of Bose in the Japanese controlled forces, and a fear of a Bengali fifth column.

    The famine arose from a perfect storm of events, of which the British Indian governments actions were one, but the famine was as much the fault of the Japanese and Bose's INA as of British policy.

    AndyJS said:

    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    AndyJS said:

    "Tony Benn 'admired' Chairman Mao, responsible for the deaths of millions. Why is this ignored?"
    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/seanthomas/100264023/tony-benn-admired-chairman-mao-responsible-for-the-deaths-of-millions-why-is-this-ignored/

    Sean posted that here last night.

    I posted on here, in response:

    Do you admire Churchill?

    Was he responsible for 3 million deaths during the Bengal famine of 1943?

    Bengal bore the brunt of the gathering disaster. At least 1.5 million died as a direct result of the famine which began at the end of 1942 and last all through the following year. A similar number again are estimated to have perished through disease - cholera, malaria and smallpox - because they were so malnourished that they had no resistance. Churchill, already furious with India, refused to interfere with the shipping programme to bring relief. Only when Field Marshall Wavell was made viceroy in September 1943 did the government of India begin to get a firm grip on the problem by using troops to distribute food reserves. Wavell made himself even more unpopular with Churchill by pursuing this policy. The whole episode was probably the most shameful in the history of the British Raj. If nothing else, it completely undermined the imperialist argument that British rule protected the poor of India from the rich.

    - Antony Beevor, "The Second World War", Phoenix Books (2013).
    Thanks, interesting stuff.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,926
    edited March 2014
    foxinsoxuk said:



    The famine arose from a perfect storm of events, of which the British Indian governments actions were one, but the famine was as much the fault of the Japanese and Bose's INA as of British policy.



    AndyJS said:

    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    AndyJS said:

    "Tony Benn 'admired' Chairman Mao, responsible for the deaths of millions. Why is this ignored?"
    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/seanthomas/100264023/tony-benn-admired-chairman-mao-responsible-for-the-deaths-of-millions-why-is-this-ignored/

    Sean posted that here last night.

    I posted on here, in response:

    Do you admire Churchill?

    Was he responsible for 3 million deaths during the Bengal famine of 1943?

    Bengal bore the brunt of the gathering disaster. At least 1.5 million died as a direct result of the famine which began at the end of 1942 and last all through the following year. A similar number again are estimated to have perished through disease - cholera, malaria and smallpox - because they were so malnourished that they had no resistance. Churchill, already furious with India, refused to interfere with the shipping programme to bring relief. Only when Field Marshall Wavell was made viceroy in September 1943 did the government of India begin to get a firm grip on the problem by using troops to distribute food reserves. Wavell made himself even more unpopular with Churchill by pursuing this policy. The whole episode was probably the most shameful in the history of the British Raj. If nothing else, it completely undermined the imperialist argument that British rule protected the poor of India from the rich.

    - Antony Beevor, "The Second World War", Phoenix Books (2013).
    Thanks, interesting stuff.
    2.5 million Indians fought for the Allies, in Burma, the Middle East, East Africa, North Africa and Italy.

    In contrast INA - never had more than 40,000 men, mostly prisoners of war who probably didn't want to become Japanese bayonet practice
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    The British Indian Army was the largest volunteer army in history, and of course was a large part of the force fighting the INA in the Burmese war.

    I am not suggesting that the majority of Indian people were sympathetic to Bose and the INA (though a good number probably were and Bose is still regarded as a hero in some Indian quarters). It was not unreasonable though of the British Indian government to withdraw potential boats and supplies in front of the anticipated Japanese led Invasion.

    This was one of the factors in the famine, but there were many others, not least the disruption of Burmese rice exports to Bengal.
    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    foxinsoxuk said:



    The famine arose from a perfect storm of events, of which the British Indian governments actions were one, but the famine was as much the fault of the Japanese and Bose's INA as of British policy.



    AndyJS said:

    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    AndyJS said:

    "Tony Benn 'admired' Chairman Mao, responsible for the deaths of millions. Why is this ignored?"
    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/seanthomas/100264023/tony-benn-admired-chairman-mao-responsible-for-the-deaths-of-millions-why-is-this-ignored/

    Sean posted that here last night.

    I posted on here, in response:

    Do you admire Churchill?

    Was he responsible for 3 million deaths during the Bengal famine of 1943?

    Bengal bore the brunt of the gathering disaster. At least 1.5 million died as a direct result of the famine which began at the end of 1942 and last all through the following year. A similar number again are estimated to have perished through disease - cholera, malaria and smallpox - because they were so malnourished that they had no resistance. Churchill, already furious with India, refused to interfere with the shipping programme to bring relief. Only when Field Marshall Wavell was made viceroy in September 1943 did the government of India begin to get a firm grip on the problem by using troops to distribute food reserves. Wavell made himself even more unpopular with Churchill by pursuing this policy. The whole episode was probably the most shameful in the history of the British Raj. If nothing else, it completely undermined the imperialist argument that British rule protected the poor of India from the rich.

    - Antony Beevor, "The Second World War", Phoenix Books (2013).
    Thanks, interesting stuff.
    2.5 million Indians fought for the Allies, in Burma, the Middle East, East Africa, North Africa and Italy.

    In contrast INA - never had more than 40,000 men, mostly prisoners of war who probably didn't want to become Japanese bayonet practice
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    A reminder of the superbly designed Series D banknotes:

    £50 - Wren:
    http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/banknotes/Pages/denom_guide/nonflash/50-seriesd.aspx

    £20 - Shakespeare:
    http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/banknotes/Pages/denom_guide/nonflash/20-seriesd.aspx

    £10 - Nightingale:
    http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/banknotes/Pages/denom_guide/nonflash/10-seriesd.aspx

    £5 - Wellington:
    http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/banknotes/Pages/denom_guide/nonflash/5-seriesd.aspx

    £1 - Newton:
    http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/banknotes/Pages/denom_guide/nonflash/1-seriesd.aspx
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,926
    edited March 2014
    foxinsoxuk said:

    The British Indian Army was the largest volunteer army in history, and of course was a large part of the force fighting the INA in the Burmese war.

    I am not suggesting that the majority of Indian people were sympathetic to Bose and the INA (though a good number probably were and Bose is still regarded as a hero in some Indian quarters). It was not unreasonable though of the British Indian government to withdraw potential boats and supplies in front of the anticipated Japanese led Invasion.

    This was one of the factors in the famine, but there were many others, not least the disruption of Burmese rice exports to Bengal.

    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    foxinsoxuk said:



    The famine arose from a perfect storm of events, of which the British Indian governments actions were one, but the famine was as much the fault of the Japanese and Bose's INA as of British policy.



    AndyJS said:

    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    AndyJS said:

    "Tony Benn 'admired' Chairman Mao, responsible for the deaths of millions. Why is this ignored?"
    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/seanthomas/100264023/tony-benn-admired-chairman-mao-responsible-for-the-deaths-of-millions-why-is-this-ignored/

    Sean posted that here last night.

    I posted on here, in response:

    Do you admire Churchill?

    Was he responsible for 3 million deaths during the Bengal famine of 1943?



    - Antony Beevor, "The Second World War", Phoenix Books (2013).
    Thanks, interesting stuff.
    2.5 million Indians fought for the Allies, in Burma, the Middle East, East Africa, North Africa and Italy.

    In contrast INA - never had more than 40,000 men, mostly prisoners of war who probably didn't want to become Japanese bayonet practice
    Madras to the south was a net exporter of rice, so could have made up for shortages had the Govt. in New Delhi got their act together, which I have to point out did happen when Wavell became Viceroy.

    I'm being a little hyperbolic here, but I'm sure the Indian Army could have had not 2.5 million but 25 million volunteers had Hitler's opinions and plans for India he postulated in Mein Kampf had been more widely circulated among the population!
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