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SystemSystem Posts: 12,685
edited February 2014 in General

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Nighthawks is now open

If you’re a lurker looking to Delurk, Get Ready For This thread, it give you a chance to delurk, hopefully there’ll be No Limits to the number of lurkers delurking.

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  • compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371
    edited February 2014
    Me, Basil and the posts...we are ready for tonight's offering.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,983
    Tory MP Aidan Burley to stand down after controversy of Nazi stag party he organised in France
  • isamisam Posts: 42,632
    edited February 2014
    Regarding Item 2, I ate some Halal Turkey yesterday and on the back of the packet it said it was "hand slaughtered" ... the word "slaughtered" really put me off... How absurd of me... surely it is hypocritical to eat meat and pretend to care that much how it was killed?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,895
    Always a good collection of links, Mr. Eagles, although your historical ones are frightfully modern tonight.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,983
    Gavin Williamson, the prime minister's parliamentary private secretary, has been sending a circular email around his backbenchers at about 11am every Wednesday, with a list of suggested "free hits" they could ask at midday
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,895
    Mr. Isam, disagree. If an animal suffers more than necessary that would put me off eating it.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,338
    I always liked Larry's Strangle Your Own Turkeys cartoon.

    http://www.cartoonstock.com/directory/p/pick-your-own.asp
  • isamisam Posts: 42,632
    Hugh said:

    isam said:

    Regarding Item 2, I ate some Halal Turkey yesterday and on the back of the packet it said it was "hand slaughtered" ... the word "slaughtered" really put me off... How absurd of me... surely it is hypocritical to eat meat and pretend to care that much how it was killed?

    Don't see why?
    If you were that bothered (not you personally) wouldn't it better just to not eat meat? One way or another you are eating something that has been murdered

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,895
    I wonder why it's seen as ok by some to eat vegetables but not animals... that always puzzles me. Plants are alive, after all. Well, until we eat them.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,092
    Off-topic:

    I want one. Pretty, pretty please:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-26052931

    Vroom (BANG)!
  • isamisam Posts: 42,632
    edited February 2014
    Hugh said:

    isam said:

    Hugh said:

    isam said:

    Regarding Item 2, I ate some Halal Turkey yesterday and on the back of the packet it said it was "hand slaughtered" ... the word "slaughtered" really put me off... How absurd of me... surely it is hypocritical to eat meat and pretend to care that much how it was killed?

    Don't see why?
    If you were that bothered (not you personally) wouldn't it better just to not eat meat? One way or another you are eating something that has been murdered

    I don't see anything wrong with eating meat but doing the best you can to ensure that the animal lived well and died humanely.

    Seems like a decent middle ground between moral vegetarianism and not caring at all about food animal welfare.
    I don't really feel all that comfortable eating animals and only eat poultry and fish (and am thinking of outing the poultry), but how do you really know how the animal died?

    Half the firms don't even seem able to say which animal it is in beef products let alone show you the autopsy!
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    It sounds you should be a fruitarian. Only eat things that are not killed by being eaten.
    Morris_Dancer said:

    I wonder why it's seen as ok by some to eat vegetables but not animals... that always puzzles me. Plants are alive, after all. Well, until we eat them.

  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    Hugh said:

    isam said:

    Hugh said:

    isam said:

    Regarding Item 2, I ate some Halal Turkey yesterday and on the back of the packet it said it was "hand slaughtered" ... the word "slaughtered" really put me off... How absurd of me... surely it is hypocritical to eat meat and pretend to care that much how it was killed?

    Don't see why?
    If you were that bothered (not you personally) wouldn't it better just to not eat meat? One way or another you are eating something that has been murdered

    I don't see anything wrong with eating meat but doing the best you can to ensure that the animal lived well and died humanely.

    Seems like a decent middle ground between moral vegetarianism and not caring at all about food animal welfare.
    You've clearly confused PB with somewhere else with that kind of rabble rousing common sense.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 44,320
    Cognitive dissonance looking at BBC Sport's live newsfeed?

    Real Madrid vs Atletico Madrid...Barcelona vs Real Sociedad...Preston vs Nottingham Forest...
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 18,361
    isam said:

    Regarding Item 2, I ate some Halal Turkey yesterday and on the back of the packet it said it was "hand slaughtered" ... the word "slaughtered" really put me off... How absurd of me... surely it is hypocritical to eat meat and pretend to care that much how it was killed?

    I disagree. The irony is that the halal process is essentially a health and safety guide itself; it's just a H&S guide for Middle Eastern conditions in the 8th century.

    I'm happy to eat meat myself but would much prefer that it was reared in decent conditions and slaughtered with a minimum of pain to the animal.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,895
    Mr. Foxinsox, I'm eminently comfortable with my omnivorous nature. The Flying Spaghetti Monster didn't give us canines and incisors so we could hunt down herds of cabbages, did he?
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    If the good Lord did not want us to eat meat, then why did he make animals so tasty?
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Mr. Foxinsox, I'm eminently comfortable with my omnivorous nature. The Flying Spaghetti Monster didn't give us canines and incisors so we could hunt down herds of cabbages, did he?

  • isamisam Posts: 42,632
    david_herdson said:

    isam said:

    Regarding Item 2, I ate some Halal Turkey yesterday and on the back of the packet it said it was "hand slaughtered" ... the word "slaughtered" really put me off... How absurd of me... surely it is hypocritical to eat meat and pretend to care that much how it was killed?

    I disagree. The irony is that the halal process is essentially a health and safety guide itself; it's just a H&S guide for Middle Eastern conditions in the 8th century.

    I'm happy to eat meat myself but would much prefer that it was reared in decent conditions and slaughtered with a minimum of pain to the animal.
    Think Ill cut out the halal... its the only thing that's any good at the shop that's open late at the top of my road else Id never have eaten it to be honest
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,895
    Indeed, Mr. Foxinsox. The pig is surely a divine being. Bacon, pork, ham, gammon, all from a single creature!
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    compouter2 said:

    Me, Basil and the posts...we are ready for tonight's offering.

    Given how wildly YouGov darts about these days best batten down the hatches. Or not. ;)
  • CarolaCarola Posts: 1,805
    Poor old pier:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-26051022
  • isamisam Posts: 42,632
    Hugh said:

    isam said:

    Hugh said:

    isam said:

    Hugh said:

    isam said:

    Regarding Item 2, I ate some Halal Turkey yesterday and on the back of the packet it said it was "hand slaughtered" ... the word "slaughtered" really put me off... How absurd of me... surely it is hypocritical to eat meat and pretend to care that much how it was killed?

    Don't see why?
    If you were that bothered (not you personally) wouldn't it better just to not eat meat? One way or another you are eating something that has been murdered

    I don't see anything wrong with eating meat but doing the best you can to ensure that the animal lived well and died humanely.

    Seems like a decent middle ground between moral vegetarianism and not caring at all about food animal welfare.
    I don't really feel all that comfortable eating animals and only eat poultry and fish (and am thinking of outing the poultry), but how do you really know how the animal died?

    Half the firms don't even seem able to say which animal it is in beef products let alone show you the autopsy!
    You don't for sure, but you do the best you can (choose your sources / shops carefully, check the labels, accreditations etc).

    And in theory anyway, the more consumers do that, the higher we can all drive up animal welfare standards, even if we eat meat.

    Free range eggs are a good example. I can remember when they were unheard of, now they seem just as popular - if not more - as factory farmed in the supermarkets.

    Eating eggs makes me even more squeamish than meat!
  • compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371
    Mick_Pork said:

    compouter2 said:

    Me, Basil and the posts...we are ready for tonight's offering.

    Given how wildly YouGov darts about these days best batten down the hatches. Or not. ;)
    If the earth moves and the polls crossover, it will save me a pile on Tramadol.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Mmm! Crackling....
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Indeed, Mr. Foxinsox. The pig is surely a divine being. Bacon, pork, ham, gammon, all from a single creature!

  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Indeed, Mr. Foxinsox. The pig is surely a divine being. Bacon, pork, ham, gammon, all from a single creature!

    You filling in for Seth O Logue tonight I take it. He must need a break from his yellow boxes.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,895
    Growing bored waiting for the second test (19 February). It'll be interesting to see whether Renault and/or Red Bull have sorted out their issues.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,895
    Mr. Pork, Morris Dancer is the spokesman and representative of nobody save Morris Dancer himself.

    Besides, how can you possibly object to a post in which I extol the virtue of pork?
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Mr. Pork, Morris Dancer is the spokesman and representative of nobody save Morris Dancer himself.

    Besides, how can you possibly object to a post in which I extol the virtue of pork?

    I'm not objecting though Seth O Logue would have been far more florid if truth be told.
  • isamisam Posts: 42,632
    edited February 2014
    Hugh said:

    isam said:

    Hugh said:

    isam said:

    Hugh said:

    isam said:

    Regarding Item 2, I ate some Halal Turkey yesterday and on the back of the packet it said it was "hand slaughtered" ... the word "slaughtered" really put me off... How absurd of me... surely it is hypocritical to eat meat and pretend to care that much how it was killed?

    Don't see why?
    If you were that bothered (not you personally) wouldn't it better just to not eat meat? One way or another you are eating something that has been murdered

    I don't see anything wrong with eating meat but doing the best you can to ensure that the animal lived well and died humanely.

    Seems like a decent middle ground between moral vegetarianism and not caring at all about food animal welfare.
    I don't really feel all that comfortable eating animals and only eat poultry and fish (and am thinking of outing the poultry), but how do you really know how the animal died?

    Half the firms don't even seem able to say which animal it is in beef products let alone show you the autopsy!
    You don't for sure, but you do the best you can (choose your sources / shops carefully, check the labels, accreditations etc).

    And in theory anyway, the more consumers do that, the higher we can all drive up animal welfare standards, even if we eat meat.

    Free range eggs are a good example. I can remember when they were unheard of, now they seem just as popular - if not more - as factory farmed in the supermarkets.

    Im really not trying to be picky here, this is a dilemma I have tried to work out for myself with regard to which animals, if any, to eat..

    In a way isn't it worse to eat free range chickens in the respect that you are eating happy animals that were then killed, whereas the battery farm ones never knew any different?

    When I gave up eating mammals it was the thought of eating a happy, relaxed cow, sheep or pig that may have had a cheerful personality, before it was killed for my benefit, that made me stop
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,895
    Mr. Isam, the free range never knew any different either, but they had less stressful, more contented lives before the end.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 33,584
    isam said:

    Regarding Item 2, I ate some Halal Turkey yesterday and on the back of the packet it said it was "hand slaughtered" ... the word "slaughtered" really put me off... How absurd of me... surely it is hypocritical to eat meat and pretend to care that much how it was killed?

    Got to say strange as it might seem I am with Hugh on this one I am afraid Sam. I am a great meat eater and also shoot pigeons and the odd rabbit with an air rifle. I certainly do not think that it is illogical to enjoy eating meat but to want to ensure the suffering of the animal is kept to an absolute minimum.

    I am not completely clear on the Halal process beyond the stereotypical depictions but I understand that if it were not for the religious aspect then the process would be considered animal cruelty under our laws. As such, if that is the case, then I do believe it should treated in exactly the same way as any other animal cruelty case.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,789
    Morris_Dancer said:

    I wonder why it's seen as ok by some to eat vegetables but not animals... that always puzzles me. Plants are alive, after all. Well, until we eat them.

    I'm not a vegetarian but the key issue is surely the nervous system and ability to respond to pain and fear. You can be as nasty as you like to your kitchen cupboard, or to a carrot - neither will mind a bit. Like Hugh, I try to compromise by eating Freedom Food meat, free-range eggs etc.

  • isamisam Posts: 42,632
    Richard_Tyndall said:

    isam said:

    Regarding Item 2, I ate some Halal Turkey yesterday and on the back of the packet it said it was "hand slaughtered" ... the word "slaughtered" really put me off... How absurd of me... surely it is hypocritical to eat meat and pretend to care that much how it was killed?

    Got to say strange as it might seem I am with Hugh on this one I am afraid Sam. I am a great meat eater and also shoot pigeons and the odd rabbit with an air rifle. I certainly do not think that it is illogical to enjoy eating meat but to want to ensure the suffering of the animal is kept to an absolute minimum.

    I am not completely clear on the Halal process beyond the stereotypical depictions but I understand that if it were not for the religious aspect then the process would be considered animal cruelty under our laws. As such, if that is the case, then I do believe it should treated in exactly the same way as any other animal cruelty case.
    Tricky.. for me I feel bad eating any animal, but supress it enough to eat non mammals. I think it is a bit of a stretch to shoot wild animals and eat them then worry about how others are killed, but as I am guilty of eating animals too, obviously I cant really preach
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 33,584
    Since we are running through the items can I also say that I agree with Item 12. I believe Trade Unions are still vital today. I just disagree with the way they have operated for much of their history as an overt political organisation which does not always work to the best interests of their members.
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    Hugh said:

    isam said:

    Hugh said:

    isam said:

    Hugh said:

    isam said:

    Hugh said:

    isam said:

    Regarding Item 2, I ate some Halal Turkey yesterday and on the back of the packet it said it was "hand slaughtered" ... the word "slaughtered" really put me off... How absurd of me... surely it is hypocritical to eat meat and pretend to care that much how it was killed?

    Don't see why?
    If you were that bothered (not you personally) wouldn't it better just to not eat meat? One way or another you are eating something that has been murdered

    I don't see anything wrong with eating meat but doing the best you can to ensure that the animal lived well and died humanely.

    Seems like a decent middle ground between moral vegetarianism and not caring at all about food animal welfare.
    I don't really feel all that comfortable eating animals and only eat poultry and fish (and am thinking of outing the poultry), but how do you really know how the animal died?

    Half the firms don't even seem able to say which animal it is in beef products let alone show you the autopsy!
    You don't for sure, but you do the best you can (choose your sources / shops carefully, check the labels, accreditations etc).

    And in theory anyway, the more consumers do that, the higher we can all drive up animal welfare standards, even if we eat meat.

    Free range eggs are a good example. I can remember when they were unheard of, now they seem just as popular - if not more - as factory farmed in the supermarkets.

    Im really not trying to be picky here, this is a dilemma I have tried to work out for myself with regard to which animals, if any, to eat..

    In a way isn't it worse to eat free range chickens in the respect that you are eating happy animals that were then killed, whereas the battery farm ones never knew any different?
    I don't think so no.

    A free range chicken humanely killed lived a good happy life then knew nothing of its death.

    A battery farmed chicken suffered from birth to death (and won't taste as nice!)

    I see what you mean about eggs though, I sometimes catch myself with eggs. Still eat them though.

    How it is cooked will also affect how nice it may taste, and indeed by whom.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdxaIBxJcao
  • GloucesterOldSpotGloucesterOldSpot Posts: 50
    Even-toed ungulates tend to be vegetarian.

    http://bit.ly/1cVVOZT
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    Richard_Tyndall said:

    Since we are running through the items can I also say that I agree with Item 12. I believe Trade Unions are still vital today. I just disagree with the way they have operated for much of their history as an overt political organisation which does not always work to the best interests of their members.

    It's research that should give the huge anti-trade union wing of the Conservative party significant food for thought. But it wont.
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Mr. Pork, Morris Dancer is the spokesman and representative of nobody save Morris Dancer himself.

    Besides, how can you possibly object to a post in which I extol the virtue of pork?

    Not to worry. The nightshift's back on.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Hugh said:

    isam said:

    Hugh said:

    isam said:

    Regarding Item 2, I ate some Halal Turkey yesterday and on the back of the packet it said it was "hand slaughtered" ... the word "slaughtered" really put me off... How absurd of me... surely it is hypocritical to eat meat and pretend to care that much how it was killed?

    Don't see why?
    If you were that bothered (not you personally) wouldn't it better just to not eat meat? One way or another you are eating something that has been murdered

    I don't see anything wrong with eating meat but doing the best you can to ensure that the animal lived well and died humanely.

    Seems like a decent middle ground between moral vegetarianism and not caring at all about food animal welfare.
    A very High Tory position though - stewardship & dominion and all that good stuff
  • valleyboyvalleyboy Posts: 606
    I don't compromise. Haven't eaten meat/fish for many years.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,792
    Sun Politics ‏@Sun_Politics 17s

    YouGov/Sun poll tonight - Labour lead drops to four points: CON 35%, LAB 39%, LD 9%, UKIP 10%
  • compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371
    YouGov/Sun poll tonight - Labour lead drops to four points: CON 35%, LAB 39%, LD 9%, UKIP 10%

    http://sd.keepcalm-o-matic.co.uk/i/keep-calm-and-oh-look-a-squirrel-7.png
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,983
    : CON 35%, LAB 39%, LD 9%, UKIP 10%
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,895
    I still can't believe the Lib Dems are below the 10% threshold. What did they get at the election? 23%?
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited February 2014
    Neil said:

    Richard_Tyndall said:

    Since we are running through the items can I also say that I agree with Item 12. I believe Trade Unions are still vital today. I just disagree with the way they have operated for much of their history as an overt political organisation which does not always work to the best interests of their members.

    It's research that should give the huge anti-trade union wing of the Conservative party significant food for thought. But it wont.
    Much as number 1. should give Cammie nightmares since some of the comments and ratings below a very funny rebuke certainly can't all be fifth columnist kippers.

    http://www.conservativehome.com/parliament/2014/02/a-letter-from-syed-kamall-mep-punctures-ukips-absurd-muslim-pledge-idea.html
  • isamisam Posts: 42,632
    valleyboy said:

    I don't compromise. Haven't eaten meat/fish for many years.

    Working on it.. Had quorn chicken yesterday, not bad
  • compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371


    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Sun Politics ‏@Sun_Politics 17s

    YouGov/Sun poll tonight - Labour lead drops to four points: CON 35%, LAB 39%, LD 9%, UKIP 10%

    Lift......March!
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    isam said:

    Hugh said:

    isam said:

    Hugh said:

    isam said:

    Hugh said:

    isam said:

    Regarding Item 2, I ate some Halal Turkey yesterday and on the back of the packet it said it was "hand slaughtered" ... the word "slaughtered" really put me off... How absurd of me... surely it is hypocritical to eat meat and pretend to care that much how it was killed?

    Don't see why?
    If you were that bothered (not you personally) wouldn't it better just to not eat meat? One way or another you are eating something that has been murdered

    I don't see anything wrong with eating meat but doing the best you can to ensure that the animal lived well and died humanely.

    Seems like a decent middle ground between moral vegetarianism and not caring at all about food animal welfare.
    I don't really feel all that comfortable eating animals and only eat poultry and fish (and am thinking of outing the poultry), but how do you really know how the animal died?

    Half the firms don't even seem able to say which animal it is in beef products let alone show you the autopsy!
    You don't for sure, but you do the best you can (choose your sources / shops carefully, check the labels, accreditations etc).

    And in theory anyway, the more consumers do that, the higher we can all drive up animal welfare standards, even if we eat meat.

    Free range eggs are a good example. I can remember when they were unheard of, now they seem just as popular - if not more - as factory farmed in the supermarkets.

    Im really not trying to be picky here, this is a dilemma I have tried to work out for myself with regard to which animals, if any, to eat..

    In a way isn't it worse to eat free range chickens in the respect that you are eating happy animals that were then killed, whereas the battery farm ones never knew any different?

    When I gave up eating mammals it was the thought of eating a happy, relaxed cow, sheep or pig that may have had a cheerful personality, before it was killed for my benefit, that made me stop
    Battery farming is vile, but necessary in order to feed the growing human population. Prov ided you can afford it it seems the moral choice to favour less intrusive forms of animal-rearing.
  • CarolaCarola Posts: 1,805
    I stopped eating meat after seeing 'The Animals Film' screened by Channel 4 - I thought on the first night but apparently it was the third:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Animals_Film

    I started eating meat again about a decade later living out in the sticks in Thailand, and carried on when I got home. Though I don't eat it often and I'm picky.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,114
    Little do BNP fans know, those were South American potatoes used in that stew. Not good British potatoes. Those carrots are also Turkish. And worst of all, the beer is Belgian. I know. For shame. The British National Party may as well call itself the Faux-British Pro-Immigrations Islamo-Sympathising Anti-White Party. Just think of all the British farmers who lost work.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,895
    Mr. Charles, although this is for 'properly' farmed animals, vegetables are far more efficient than animals in terms of land use for energy yield (rice being best). Of animals, chickens are most efficient by a fair distance. I strongly suspect we could feed everyone on vegetables as easily (and probably more easily) than by battery farming.

    Anyway, I am off to eat a chocolate chip cookie and some parkin for supper. Night all.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    compouter2 said:

    YouGov/Sun poll tonight - Labour lead drops to four points: CON 35%, LAB 39%, LD 9%, UKIP 10%

    http://sd.keepcalm-o-matic.co.uk/i/keep-calm-and-oh-look-a-squirrel-7.png

    Tumbling into the abyss.

    Timber!

    Those cute little squirrels of yours are running for cover, 'pouter.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,810
    Always dangerous to do an average before the week is out (!!!) but just for fun:

    YouGov average Lab leads so far this year:

    Week 1 - 6.8
    Week 2 - 5.4
    Week 3 - 6.0
    Week 4 - 4.6
    Week 5 - 5.0 (3 polls only; 2 polls still to come)

    So overall a hint of a slightly falling lead but it's only very marginal.
  • isamisam Posts: 42,632
    Charles said:

    isam said:

    Hugh said:

    isam said:

    Hugh said:

    isam said:

    Hugh said:

    isam said:

    Regarding Item 2, I ate some Halal Turkey yesterday and on the back of the packet it said it was "hand slaughtered" ... the word "slaughtered" really put me off... How absurd of me... surely it is hypocritical to eat meat and pretend to care that much how it was killed?

    Don't see why?
    If you were that bothered (not you personally) wouldn't it better just to not eat meat? One way or another you are eating something that has been murdered

    I don't see anything wrong with eating meat but doing the best you can to ensure that the animal lived well and died humanely.

    Seems like a decent middle ground between moral vegetarianism and not caring at all about food animal welfare.
    I don't really feel all that comfortable eating animals and only eat poultry and fish (and am thinking of outing the poultry), but how do you really know how the animal died?

    Half the firms don't even seem able to say which animal it is in beef products let alone show you the autopsy!
    You don't for sure, but you do the best you can (choose your sources / shops carefully, check the labels, accreditations etc).

    And in theory anyway, the more consumers do that, the higher we can all drive up animal welfare standards, even if we eat meat.

    Free range eggs are a good example. I can remember when they were unheard of, now they seem just as popular - if not more - as factory farmed in the supermarkets.

    Im really not trying to be picky here, this is a dilemma I have tried to work out for myself with regard to which animals, if any, to eat..

    In a way isn't it worse to eat free range chickens in the respect that you are eating happy animals that were then killed, whereas the battery farm ones never knew any different?

    When I gave up eating mammals it was the thought of eating a happy, relaxed cow, sheep or pig that may have had a cheerful personality, before it was killed for my benefit, that made me stop
    Battery farming is vile, but necessary in order to feed the growing human population. Prov ided you can afford it it seems the moral choice to favour less intrusive forms of animal-rearing.
    Yeah...paradoxical of me I know but it was pictures of happy animals, and packaging that said they ran around in fields etc that made me stop eating them
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Hugh said:

    isam said:

    Hugh said:

    isam said:

    Hugh said:

    isam said:

    Hugh said:

    isam said:

    Regarding Item 2, I ate some Halal Turkey yesterday and on the back of the packet it said it was "hand slaughtered" ... the word "slaughtered" really put me off... How absurd of me... surely it is hypocritical to eat meat and pretend to care that much how it was killed?

    Don't see why?
    If you were that bothered (not you personally) wouldn't it better just to not eat meat? One way or another you are eating something that has been murdered

    I don't see anything wrong with eating meat but doing the best you can to ensure that the animal lived well and died humanely.

    Seems like a decent middle ground between moral vegetarianism and not caring at all about food animal welfare.
    I don't really feel all that comfortable eating animals and only eat poultry and fish (and am thinking of outing the poultry), but how do you really know how the animal died?

    Half the firms don't even seem able to say which animal it is in beef products let alone show you the autopsy!
    You don't for sure, but you do the best you can (choose your sources / shops carefully, check the labels, accreditations etc).

    And in theory anyway, the more consumers do that, the higher we can all drive up animal welfare standards, even if we eat meat.

    Free range eggs are a good example. I can remember when they were unheard of, now they seem just as popular - if not more - as factory farmed in the supermarkets.

    Im really not trying to be picky here, this is a dilemma I have tried to work out for myself with regard to which animals, if any, to eat..

    In a way isn't it worse to eat free range chickens in the respect that you are eating happy animals that were then killed, whereas the battery farm ones never knew any different?
    I don't think so no.

    A free range chicken humanely killed lived a good happy life then knew nothing of its death.

    A battery farmed chicken suffered from birth to death (and won't taste as nice!)

    I see what you mean about eggs though, I sometimes catch myself with eggs. Still eat them though.

    If it helps, the eggs you eat aren't fertilised. You're not preventing cute little chicks from popping out. (Did anyone realise that apparently Koreans have an uncany ability to visually spot genetic abnoramlities in chicks? I have a client who imports them to Alabama en masse for the purpose of improving their breeding stock)
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    GloucesterOldSpot said:

    Even-toed ungulates tend to be vegetarian.

    http://bit.ly/1cVVOZT

    Welcome back to PB, Mr. Spot.

  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Personally I favour eating sheep and large mammals, as these are much less likely to be factory farmed than small animals like poultry. Free range can be free in a very minimal range, but sheep wander over the hills.

    Indeed I rather take the view that one cow, carefully used and stored, is most of a years meat, while a chicken lasts only a week at most. One cow or 52 chickens? Less suffeering with a single animal.
    isam said:

    Hugh said:

    isam said:

    Hugh said:

    isam said:

    Hugh said:

    isam said:

    Regarding Item 2, I ate some Halal Turkey yesterday and on the back of the packet it said it was "hand slaughtered" ... the word "slaughtered" really put me off... How absurd of me... surely it is hypocritical to eat meat and pretend to care that much how it was killed?

    Don't see why?
    If you were that bothered (not you personally) wouldn't it better just to not eat meat? One way or another you are eating something that has been murdered

    I don't see anything wrong with eating meat but doing the best you can to ensure that the animal lived well and died humanely.

    Seems like a decent middle ground between moral vegetarianism and not caring at all about food animal welfare.
    I don't really feel all that comfortable eating animals and only eat poultry and fish (and am thinking of outing the poultry), but how do you really know how the animal died?

    Half the firms don't even seem able to say which animal it is in beef products let alone show you the autopsy!
    You don't for sure, but you do the best you can (choose your sources / shops carefully, check the labels, accreditations etc).

    And in theory anyway, the more consumers do that, the higher we can all drive up animal welfare standards, even if we eat meat.

    Free range eggs are a good example. I can remember when they were unheard of, now they seem just as popular - if not more - as factory farmed in the supermarkets.

    Im really not trying to be picky here, this is a dilemma I have tried to work out for myself with regard to which animals, if any, to eat..

    In a way isn't it worse to eat free range chickens in the respect that you are eating happy animals that were then killed, whereas the battery farm ones never knew any different?

    When I gave up eating mammals it was the thought of eating a happy, relaxed cow, sheep or pig that may have had a cheerful personality, before it was killed for my benefit, that made me stop
  • PBModeratorPBModerator Posts: 667
    Avery/Gloucester

    Please pick one screen name for PB.

    We do not allow multiple concurrent screen names on PB.
  • compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371
    AveryLP said:

    compouter2 said:

    YouGov/Sun poll tonight - Labour lead drops to four points: CON 35%, LAB 39%, LD 9%, UKIP 10%

    http://sd.keepcalm-o-matic.co.uk/i/keep-calm-and-oh-look-a-squirrel-7.png

    Tumbling into the abyss.

    Timber!

    Those cute little squirrels of yours are running for cover, 'pouter.
    Labour get 39% then Labour have a workable majority. The rest is just noise, and not just the noise of Basil chewing on his nuts.
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    Morris_Dancer said:

    I still can't believe the Lib Dems are below the 10% threshold. What did they get at the election? 23%?

    They've had runs of 8 and 9 before. Much longer than a week though and they might do the impossible and finally shift their average away from 10%. Sadly for Clegg it would be down.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Neil said:

    Richard_Tyndall said:

    Since we are running through the items can I also say that I agree with Item 12. I believe Trade Unions are still vital today. I just disagree with the way they have operated for much of their history as an overt political organisation which does not always work to the best interests of their members.

    It's research that should give the huge anti-trade union wing of the Conservative party significant food for thought. But it wont.
    I can't read the article as on the road. But it would seem to me that the functions that workers need would be better fulfilled by workers councils rather than multi-company trade unions. They need someone who is going to stick up for them in their site / company not someone who is going to grandstand around. Additionally it seems they should represent all employees, not just their members, although need to be careful to avoid closed shops (which is an advantage of tying membership to a company and making it automatic)
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 40,054
    The Labour share is relentlessly the same. Everyone else very up and down

    In other news, The Grauniad has a campaign against FGM:

    http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/feb/05/british-girl-guardian-campaign-end-female-genital-mutilation-fgm
  • compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371
    PBModerator said:

    Avery/Gloucester

    Please pick one screen name for PB.

    We do not allow multiple concurrent screen names on PB.

    *** Innocent Face ***
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    PBModerator said:

    Avery/Gloucester

    Please pick one screen name for PB.

    We do not allow multiple concurrent screen names on PB.

    Sorry, Moderator.

    I was only trying to confuse Pork.

    But you were too quick for me!

  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    " I think it is a bit of a stretch to shoot wild animals and eat them then worry about how others are killed"

    I don't know. Take deer, one moment it is wandering around my mate's field having a nice bit of lunch with not a care in the world, the next it is stone dead from a well placed full-bore rifle bullet. Time of suffering or anxiety? A second, maybe two, enough to perhaps feel the impact but not enough to react to it. That is about as clean a death as is possible and far better than most farm animals get. Taking wild animals for the pot is, providing it is done properly, a lot less cruel than the industrialised slaughter methods of modern farming.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Sun Politics ‏@Sun_Politics 17s

    YouGov/Sun poll tonight - Labour lead drops to four points: CON 35%, LAB 39%, LD 9%, UKIP 10%

    Seems consistent with a lead that has tightened slightly this year to c 5-6 points vs the 7-9 we were seeing in Q4
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    compouter2 said:

    PBModerator said:

    Avery/Gloucester

    Please pick one screen name for PB.

    We do not allow multiple concurrent screen names on PB.

    *** Innocent Face ***
    It's the concurrent that makes it poetry.

    :)
  • PBModeratorPBModerator Posts: 667
    AveryLP said:

    PBModerator said:

    Avery/Gloucester

    Please pick one screen name for PB.

    We do not allow multiple concurrent screen names on PB.

    Sorry, Moderator.

    I was only trying to confuse Pork.

    But you were too quick for me!

    I suggest you and Mr Pork stop referencing each other directly or indirectly for the remainder of the month.

    It is getting boring and repetitive.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Mr. Charles, although this is for 'properly' farmed animals, vegetables are far more efficient than animals in terms of land use for energy yield (rice being best). Of animals, chickens are most efficient by a fair distance. I strongly suspect we could feed everyone on vegetables as easily (and probably more easily) than by battery farming.

    Anyway, I am off to eat a chocolate chip cookie and some parkin for supper. Night all.

    Vegetables don't give you enough protein.

    There is an incredibly strong correlation (as rcs1000 and I have discussed before) with per capita income and consumption of animal protein.

    Farmed salmon is the most efficient source of protein - it has a dramatically lower Food Conversion Ratio (kg feed needed to produce kg of meat) than any others. Then chicken, pork and beef. Plus it doesn't use land or fresh water which are the biggest constraints on industrial livestock production in the developing world.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited February 2014
    SouthamObserver said:

    The Labour share is relentlessly the same. Everyone else very up and down

    In other news, The Grauniad has a campaign against FGM:

    http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/feb/05/british-girl-guardian-campaign-end-female-genital-mutilation-fgm

    Leyla Hussein's "Stop FGM "e-petition is still available to sign, with more than 102,000 people having already done so:

    http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/52740
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited February 2014
    Hugh said:

    AveryLP said:

    compouter2 said:

    YouGov/Sun poll tonight - Labour lead drops to four points: CON 35%, LAB 39%, LD 9%, UKIP 10%

    http://sd.keepcalm-o-matic.co.uk/i/keep-calm-and-oh-look-a-squirrel-7.png

    Tumbling into the abyss.

    Timber!

    Those cute little squirrels of yours are running for cover, 'pouter.
    Didn't you make yourself look like an idiot by saying something similar early last week, before Labour's lead went back to normal?

    Or are you being "funny"?
    I was being deadly serious, Hugh.

    If I had wanted to be "funny" then I would have posted that:

    1. The current economic recovery was based on "unbalanced growth".

    2. Recent rises in employment and falls in employment were hiding "underemployment and dangerously high unemployment".

    3. The financial sector was still "dangerously unreformed".

    4. That Osborne was creating a worse economic legacy than Brown.

    The we would all be rolling in the aisles, Hugh.
  • isamisam Posts: 42,632
    foxinsoxuk said:

    Personally I favour eating sheep and large mammals, as these are much less likely to be factory farmed than small animals like poultry. Free range can be free in a very minimal range, but sheep wander over the hills.

    Indeed I rather take the view that one cow, carefully used and stored, is most of a years meat, while a chicken lasts only a week at most. One cow or 52 chickens? Less suffeering with a single animal.

    isam said:

    Hugh said:

    isam said:

    Hugh said:

    isam said:

    Hugh said:

    isam said:

    Regarding Item 2, I ate some Halal Turkey yesterday and on the back of the packet it said it was "hand slaughtered" ... the word "slaughtered" really put me off... How absurd of me... surely it is hypocritical to eat meat and pretend to care that much how it was killed?

    Don't see why?
    If you were that bothered (not you personally) wouldn't it better just to not eat meat? One way or another you are eating something that has been murdered

    I don't see anything wrong with eating meat but doing the best you can to ensure that the animal lived well and died humanely.

    Seems like a decent middle ground between moral vegetarianism and not caring at all about food animal welfare.
    I don't really feel all that comfortable eating animals and only eat poultry and fish (and am thinking of outing the poultry), but how do you really know how the animal died?

    Half the firms don't even seem able to say which animal it is in beef products let alone show you the autopsy!
    You don't for sure, but you do the best you can (choose your sources / shops carefully, check the labels, accreditations etc).

    And in theory anyway, the more consumers do that, the higher we can all drive up animal welfare standards, even if we eat meat.

    Free range eggs are a good example. I can remember when they were unheard of, now they seem just as popular - if not more - as factory farmed in the supermarkets.

    Im really not trying to be picky here, this is a dilemma I have tried to work out for myself with regard to which animals, if any, to eat..

    In a way isn't it worse to eat free range chickens in the respect that you are eating happy animals that were then killed, whereas the battery farm ones never knew any different?

    When I gave up eating mammals it was the thought of eating a happy, relaxed cow, sheep or pig that may have had a cheerful personality, before it was killed for my benefit, that made me stop
    My current self justification for eating only birds and fish is that thy don't have personalities like Mammals do.. could be wrong but don't tell me!
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,092
    Off-topic:

    Last year, 10 billion ARM chips were shipped by the company's partners. That is one-and-a-bit for everybody on Earth. They have sold 50 billion in the last twenty years.

    An amazing British success story.

    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/02/04/arm_posts_sterling_revenue_growth_but_moneymen_spank_it_anyway/
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,114
    SouthamObserver said:

    The Labour share is relentlessly the same. Everyone else very up and down

    In other news, The Grauniad has a campaign against FGM:

    http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/feb/05/british-girl-guardian-campaign-end-female-genital-mutilation-fgm

    A worthy cause. In other news some people can read something into anything: http://www.theguardian.com/healthcare-network/2014/feb/05/12-years-slave-black-mental-health !!!

    I'd highly recommend the film, Chiwetel Ejiofor in particular is superb but I don't think you can read so much into black people's modern mental health issues from it...
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    foxinsoxuk said:

    If the good Lord did not want us to eat meat, then why did he make animals so tasty?

    Morris_Dancer said:

    Mr. Foxinsox, I'm eminently comfortable with my omnivorous nature. The Flying Spaghetti Monster didn't give us canines and incisors so we could hunt down herds of cabbages, did he?

    Quite so.

    At Auchentennach Fine Pies the same is said of Scottish Liberal Democrats.

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,114
    AveryLP said:

    Hugh said:

    AveryLP said:

    compouter2 said:

    YouGov/Sun poll tonight - Labour lead drops to four points: CON 35%, LAB 39%, LD 9%, UKIP 10%

    http://sd.keepcalm-o-matic.co.uk/i/keep-calm-and-oh-look-a-squirrel-7.png

    Tumbling into the abyss.

    Timber!

    Those cute little squirrels of yours are running for cover, 'pouter.
    Didn't you make yourself look like an idiot by saying something similar early last week, before Labour's lead went back to normal?

    Or are you being "funny"?
    I was being deadly serious, Hugh.

    If I had wanted to be "funny" then I would have posted that:

    1. The current economic recovery was based on "unbalanced growth".

    2. Recent rises in employment and falls in employment were hiding "underemployment and dangerously high unemployment".

    3. The financial sector was still "dangerously unreformed".

    4. That Osborne was creating a worse economic legacy than Brown.

    The we would all be rolling in the aisles, Hugh.
    They'll be dancing in the streets of Bath.

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,114
    JackW said:

    foxinsoxuk said:

    If the good Lord did not want us to eat meat, then why did he make animals so tasty?

    Morris_Dancer said:

    Mr. Foxinsox, I'm eminently comfortable with my omnivorous nature. The Flying Spaghetti Monster didn't give us canines and incisors so we could hunt down herds of cabbages, did he?

    Quite so.

    At Auchentennach Fine Pies the same is said of Scottish Liberal Democrats.

    I don't think its very morally responsible to hunt endangered species.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Interesting that the phrase used is "female genital mutilation", which of course implies that the male version is acceptable.
  • Chris_AChris_A Posts: 1,237
    Nick P, happy birthday!
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,114
    isam said:



    My current self justification for eating only birds and fish is that thy don't have personalities like Mammals do.. could be wrong but don't tell me!

    Sam, I owned some Indian Runner ducks that I sadly had to give away a few months back (Garden was just too small). I can tell you that they DO very much have personalities !


  • isamisam Posts: 42,632
    HurstLlama said:

    " I think it is a bit of a stretch to shoot wild animals and eat them then worry about how others are killed"

    I don't know. Take deer, one moment it is wandering around my mate's field having a nice bit of lunch with not a care in the world, the next it is stone dead from a well placed full-bore rifle bullet. Time of suffering or anxiety? A second, maybe two, enough to perhaps feel the impact but not enough to react to it. That is about as clean a death as is possible and far better than most farm animals get. Taking wild animals for the pot is, providing it is done properly, a lot less cruel than the industrialised slaughter methods of modern farming.

    Its something I think about a lot, and I don't have the answer, I don't preach to people that eat all meat regardless either, as again I don't know the right answer.. I could well be wrong, other animals eat animals, maybe its just the natural thing to do.



  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited February 2014
    Pulpstar said:

    JackW said:

    foxinsoxuk said:

    If the good Lord did not want us to eat meat, then why did he make animals so tasty?

    Morris_Dancer said:

    Mr. Foxinsox, I'm eminently comfortable with my omnivorous nature. The Flying Spaghetti Monster didn't give us canines and incisors so we could hunt down herds of cabbages, did he?

    Quite so.

    At Auchentennach Fine Pies the same is said of Scottish Liberal Democrats.

    I don't think its very morally responsible to hunt endangered species.
    In Scotland I think chasing Lib Dems is referred to as drag hunting.

  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,789
    Charles said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Sun Politics ‏@Sun_Politics 17s

    YouGov/Sun poll tonight - Labour lead drops to four points: CON 35%, LAB 39%, LD 9%, UKIP 10%

    Seems consistent with a lead that has tightened slightly this year to c 5-6 points vs the 7-9 we were seeing in Q4
    Yes - though Populus jumps around more. As I said (anecdotally) the other day, my impression is that UKIP is slightly off the boil, and on the whole that helps the Tories. As SO notes, the Labour share remains in the 37-39 range. One plausible scenario for the coming 15 months is a gradual decline by UKIP to say 6-7, with Labour's lead down to something like 40-37. Ironically, after all the gloom and doom about the big parties, we'll then be talking about whether two-party hegemony is back.

  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited February 2014
    Tim Aker selected for UKIP in Thurrock, as viewers of last night's Newsnight will have noticed:

    twitter.com/Tim_Aker/status/431030850897973249
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    AndyJS said:

    Interesting that the phrase used is "female genital mutilation", which of course implies that the male version is acceptable.

    Lorena Bobbitt got away with male genital mutilation, didnt she?

  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    Mr. Charles

    "Vegetables don't give you enough protein."

    Really? I did OK during my years as a vegetarian and all my full-time Buddhist chums seem to do just fine without meat as do their children.

    "Farmed salmon is the most efficient source of protein - it has a dramatically lower Food Conversion Ratio (kg feed needed to produce kg of meat) than any others."

    It just tastes crap and is probably the ultimate in factory farming.

  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Pulpstar said:

    JackW said:

    foxinsoxuk said:

    If the good Lord did not want us to eat meat, then why did he make animals so tasty?

    Morris_Dancer said:

    Mr. Foxinsox, I'm eminently comfortable with my omnivorous nature. The Flying Spaghetti Monster didn't give us canines and incisors so we could hunt down herds of cabbages, did he?

    Quite so.

    At Auchentennach Fine Pies the same is said of Scottish Liberal Democrats.

    I don't think its very morally responsible to hunt endangered species.
    I agree but they remain plentiful in a handful of enclaves so as to ensure production at sustainable levels.

  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    Terrible news. The love affair may be over.
    HuffPost UK ‏@HuffPostUK 2h

    Danny Alexander warns George Osborne will only cut top tax rate to 40p "over my dead body" http://huff.to/1fRTEub
    I fear small shrines to little Danny will be being dismantled by heartbroken scottish tories as we speak. :(
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    NickPalmer said:

    Charles said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Sun Politics ‏@Sun_Politics 17s

    YouGov/Sun poll tonight - Labour lead drops to four points: CON 35%, LAB 39%, LD 9%, UKIP 10%

    Seems consistent with a lead that has tightened slightly this year to c 5-6 points vs the 7-9 we were seeing in Q4
    Yes - though Populus jumps around more. As I said (anecdotally) the other day, my impression is that UKIP is slightly off the boil, and on the whole that helps the Tories. As SO notes, the Labour share remains in the 37-39 range. One plausible scenario for the coming 15 months is a gradual decline by UKIP to say 6-7, with Labour's lead down to something like 40-37. Ironically, after all the gloom and doom about the big parties, we'll then be talking about whether two-party hegemony is back.

    Fantasy. Councillor by-elections have UKIP averaging 22% where they stand.

    http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/comment/columns/adamboulton/article1370209.ece

    Which is just 2 points down on their May 2013 result.

    http://www7.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2013/06/29/final-vote-tally-from-last-months-locals-shows-ukip-in-second-place-in-seats-contested/
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    Mick_Pork said:

    Terrible news. The love affair may be over.

    HuffPost UK ‏@HuffPostUK 2h

    Danny Alexander warns George Osborne will only cut top tax rate to 40p "over my dead body" http://huff.to/1fRTEub
    I fear small shrines to little Danny will be being dismantled by heartbroken scottish tories as we speak. :(

    No. All it means is there will be no mansion tax under this coalition.

    The stand-off persists. The rest is pure party political positioning.

  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 40,054
    Meat is rather good to eat. You can definitely tell intensively farmed stuff though. Now I have a few bob I am lucky enough to be able to be a bit more selective in purchases; and here in Leamington we are blessed with one of the country's finest butchers shops: Aubrey Allen. That said, I'll never say no to a kebab on a Friday night.
  • isamisam Posts: 42,632
    AndyJS said:

    Tim Aker selected for UKIP in Thurrock, as viewers of last night's Newsnight will have noticed:

    twitter.com/Tim_Aker/status/431030850897973249

    Ah yes!

    Any takers on the 4/5 I am offering Con to bt Ukip in Thurrock?

    7/2 and 16/1 best at the bookies
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    AveryLP said:

    Mick_Pork said:

    Terrible news. The love affair may be over.

    HuffPost UK ‏@HuffPostUK 2h

    Danny Alexander warns George Osborne will only cut top tax rate to 40p "over my dead body" http://huff.to/1fRTEub
    I fear small shrines to little Danny will be being dismantled by heartbroken scottish tories as we speak. :(
    No. All it means is there will be no mansion tax under this coalition.

    The stand-off persists. The rest is pure party political positioning.



    ................
  • PBModeratorPBModerator Posts: 667
    Avery, it wasn't a suggestion, it was a request.

    Do not interact/reference with MickPork for the rest of the month.

    The same instruction applies to Mick as well.
  • john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    @AndyJS

    'Interesting that the phrase used is "female genital mutilation", which of course implies that the male version is acceptable.'

    Follow France's example plus make it mandatory for healthcare professionals to report cases to the police.

    'In France, activists accused Britain of cowardice, arguing that France had come close to eradicating FGM by carrying out controversial physical health checks on children and arresting parents if there was a suspicion that a girl had been mutilated'
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    FGM generally involves clitoridectomy, which is far more radical than circumcision. Male circumcision is a seperate debate with considerable differences from the FGM campaign. One should not inhibit discussion of the other, or be used as a way of shutting down debate on the other.
    AndyJS said:

    Interesting that the phrase used is "female genital mutilation", which of course implies that the male version is acceptable.

  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 33,584
    HurstLlama said:

    " I think it is a bit of a stretch to shoot wild animals and eat them then worry about how others are killed"

    I don't know. Take deer, one moment it is wandering around my mate's field having a nice bit of lunch with not a care in the world, the next it is stone dead from a well placed full-bore rifle bullet. Time of suffering or anxiety? A second, maybe two, enough to perhaps feel the impact but not enough to react to it. That is about as clean a death as is possible and far better than most farm animals get. Taking wild animals for the pot is, providing it is done properly, a lot less cruel than the industrialised slaughter methods of modern farming.

    I agree. For me there is an element of personal responsibility involved in shooting. I only use an air rifle and I only take a shot if I am close enough to ensure a clean head shot. With pigeons and rabbits this is not actually that hard as you can get pretty close to them. If there is any doubt then I don't shoot. This is mostly because I am so squeamish and would have difficulty dealing with a wounded creature but it also serves the purpose of ensuring a minimum of suffering for the animal. Chickens we rear ourselves for eggs and meat as I simply don't trust the free range labels. They put themselves to bed in their coop at dusk and we let them out when we get up. Apart from that they are entirely free range and although we have foxes around we have only ever lost two birds in a single attack. I think being free range actually gives them greater protection than being cooped up and trapped if a fox gets in.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Hugh said:

    Charles said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    Mr. Charles, although this is for 'properly' farmed animals, vegetables are far more efficient than animals in terms of land use for energy yield (rice being best). Of animals, chickens are most efficient by a fair distance. I strongly suspect we could feed everyone on vegetables as easily (and probably more easily) than by battery farming.

    Anyway, I am off to eat a chocolate chip cookie and some parkin for supper. Night all.



    There is an incredibly strong correlation (as rcs1000 and I have discussed before) with per capita income and consumption of animal protein.
    Because people in richer countries can afford to farm and buy more meat, surely?
    Poorly written comment. The correlation is between increases in pc GDP and pc protein consumption. Effect most noticeable between $1,000 and c. $12,000. Above about $20,000 it flattens out. Would need to go the the OIE website for actual numbers and I hate it with a passion.
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    Hugh said:

    AveryLP said:

    Mick_Pork said:

    Terrible news. The love affair may be over.

    HuffPost UK ‏@HuffPostUK 2h

    Danny Alexander warns George Osborne will only cut top tax rate to 40p "over my dead body" http://huff.to/1fRTEub
    I fear small shrines to little Danny will be being dismantled by heartbroken scottish tories as we speak. :(
    No. All it means is there will be no mansion tax under this coalition.

    The stand-off persists. The rest is pure party political positioning.

    Stand off, eh?

    So the Tories DO want to cut the taxes of the super-rich even further?

    Go on Gideon, please, pretty please, do it!

    Cammie refused to answer several times when asked about it (and it looked terrible) so he was either :

    A/ Hoping to pull it off in time for the election as a sop to his angry backbenchers

    or

    B/ Hoping to fool his gullible backbenchers into thinking he might do it in time for an election just to shut them up and stop them from humiliating him continually.

    Given how the the Immigration Bill and EU referendum Bill went then B/ is quite clearly far more likely.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    HurstLlama said:

    Mr. Charles

    "Vegetables don't give you enough protein."

    Really? I did OK during my years as a vegetarian and all my full-time Buddhist chums seem to do just fine without meat as do their children.

    "Farmed salmon is the most efficient source of protein - it has a dramatically lower Food Conversion Ratio (kg feed needed to produce kg of meat) than any others."

    It just tastes crap and is probably the ultimate in factory farming.

    They are an inefficient source of protein. Of course you can do fine - eat lots of pulses - but it's not as easy. Agree on the taste of farmed salmon though (sorry, Helge :) )
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