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If we want to play anecdotes my mother was a teacher, so I got a close view of evening after evening spent marking, and lesson planning.isam said:
Plus a teaching assistant for "crowd control"malcolmg said:
Yes, only 17 weeks holiday excluding "service days" and having to start at 9am and shock horror work till 3pm or 4pm. Nightmare life they lead. I will get my violin ready for the "marking papers till midnight" with a bottle of pinot grigio quotes.Wulfrun_Phil said:On thread:
"In addition there are retirees as well as friends and families of teachers."
Definitely not to be underestimated. Find me a partner of a teacher who doesn't consider that teaching has taken over their partner's life outside of school (as well as constraining their own significantly).
Gove's actions seem to be governed more by the interests of Mr Gove than those of the Conservative Party. What counts for him is how many brownie points he can gain off Conservative party members.
My Dad was a teacher, now a teaching assistant... thinks Goves 100% right.
The school he assists in was rated "Special measures" recently... as Morrissey might say, the teachers are afraid of the pupils
Also used to be a Labour voter, now UKIP.
Shove your violin up your arse if you think teachers have an easy job.0 -
DavidDavidL said:
The same comment is made in this article:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/10616188/Pound-jumps-as-construction-hits-six-and-a-half-year-high.htmlAveryLP said:Roll up, roll up, get the Good News here first
...
As a very rough rule of thumb construction is just under 10% of the economy. The fall of 0.3% found by the ONS accordingly knocked a fairly miniscule 0.03% off growth in the quarter. On the other hand if the sector was growing at 3% in the quarter as per Markit then this should have boosted overall growth by 0.3% making total growth 1%.
It is curious and not the first time that the ONS figures on construction have been seriously out of line with other surveys etc.
It may be that this was simply out of sympathy for David Blanchflower's blood pressure. Goodness knows what he would have found to write about if growth had come in at 1%. His latest article in the Indy linked to last night was just hilarious.
In the ST this weekend David Smith noted in a ps that does not appear on his website:
"consumer spending in the third quarter (for which we have data) was slightly lower as a percentage of GDP than when the coalition took over in 2010. Consumers' real disposible income is rising -in aggregate 3.4% up on pre-crisis levels- but consumer spending is 1.5% lower, The savings ratio, 5.4%, compares with a pre-crisis 0.2%."
So on the most up to date figures we in fact have the complete opposite of a consumer led boom. David Smith or David Blanchflower, who to believe?
Caught up late with your post on the previous thread.
Construction stats are amongst the most prone to later revision by the ONS mainly because projects span many accounting periods and it is difficult to measure 'work in progress' (or movements in 'inventory') accurately.
I guess the industry, particularly in the residential sector, times its completions to coincide with seasonal sales demand. So they aim to complete before spring and through the summer months.
It won't necessarily follow that builders are idle in the winter months, though output is more likely to be affected by adverse weather conditions, just that the focus will change to advancing projects rather than completing them.
ONS's first projection of GDP is based on only 40% of the fulll input data needed for final figures. The rest is estimated on the basis of past performance data. I have visions of an ONS functionary on the telephone to a construction company:
"What do you mean by "it's half finished"? Are the windows in?"
"No, but we decided to do the doors first on this project".
Nightmare stuff for statisticians.0 -
@Tissue_Price
'If anyone doubts the corrosive nature of the producer interest, then the NASUWT's Industrial Action - Frequently Asked Questions page (that someone linked to on a previous pb discussion) should enlighten them.'
Copyright Arthur Scargill ?0 -
O/T:
"Remembering David Penhaligon":
http://www.libdemvoice.org/remembering-david-penhaligon-38078.html0 -
malcolmg said:
He was on last night talking absolute bollocks, he seems to be in a time warp as every answer was "that will give the Tories a start of 71 MPs". Where was he when the numbers were cut to 59 in the Big Brother House doing cat impersonations.Alanbrooke said:Mr Galloway wants to be FM
http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/scottish-independence-galloway-wants-fm-post-1-3293075
I used to rate him but now he is just barking.
"He was on last night talking absolute bollocks"
so the FM debate with Salmond should be evenly matched then ;-)0 -
They don't have an easy job. They have a job, and like most of the rest of us it has good bits and bad bits and some really boring shitty bits. And you can moan all you like about evening marking, but having every August off makes up for a hell of a lot.corporeal said:
If we want to play anecdotes my mother was a teacher, so I got a close view of evening after evening spent marking, and lesson planning.isam said:
Plus a teaching assistant for "crowd control"malcolmg said:
Yes, only 17 weeks holiday excluding "service days" and having to start at 9am and shock horror work till 3pm or 4pm. Nightmare life they lead. I will get my violin ready for the "marking papers till midnight" with a bottle of pinot grigio quotes.Wulfrun_Phil said:On thread:
"In addition there are retirees as well as friends and families of teachers."
Definitely not to be underestimated. Find me a partner of a teacher who doesn't consider that teaching has taken over their partner's life outside of school (as well as constraining their own significantly).
Gove's actions seem to be governed more by the interests of Mr Gove than those of the Conservative Party. What counts for him is how many brownie points he can gain off Conservative party members.
My Dad was a teacher, now a teaching assistant... thinks Goves 100% right.
The school he assists in was rated "Special measures" recently... as Morrissey might say, the teachers are afraid of the pupils
Also used to be a Labour voter, now UKIP.
Shove your violin up your arse if you think teachers have an easy job.0 -
Bit of a taxonomically mixed metaphor there ...surely you mean miaowing ... . It will take a long time to forget the image of him in a fluorescent pink catsuit - but it would certainly be brave to move from Bradford to Scotland where Respect got, on checking, I find, about 3-4% at the last general election ... I had forgotten what a long and complex anabasis he has had.malcolmg said:
He was on last night talking absolute bollocks, he seems to be in a time warp as every answer was "that will give the Tories a start of 71 MPs". Where was he when the numbers were cut to 59 in the Big Brother House doing cat impersonations.Alanbrooke said:Mr Galloway wants to be FM
http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/scottish-independence-galloway-wants-fm-post-1-3293075
I used to rate him but now he is just barking.
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Presumably they were all qualified for the job? Which, in the eyes of some here, equals competent. They will find it hard to believe you had grounds to sack them in view of them clutching some paperwork.currystar said:
When you have an industry that employs hundreds of thousands and only sacked 18 people for incompetence in 40 years you are hardly going to take them with you. They are going to want the status quo.john_zims said:@Hugh
'Hucks is right below. If you want to make changes you take people with you,'
We all remember how responsive the trade unions were to New Labour's health & education reforms.
In 20 years my firm which only employs 50 people has got rid of more electricians for incompetence than the teachers sacked in 40 years.
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I quite like Michael Gove because he stir's things up. What's needed after 13 years of Labour's mismanagement is a real shake up. If Michael Gove can provide that shake up in one area of government then so much the better.
The other reason I like him is because the Lib-Dems and Labour hate him, LOL!
If the Tories must suffer Vince Cable's constant sniping (and that of his little mini-me Lord Oakshott) it only seem's fair that the Lib-Dems have to suffer Michael Gove, no?0 -
You are a bad man AlanAlanbrooke said:malcolmg said:
He was on last night talking absolute bollocks, he seems to be in a time warp as every answer was "that will give the Tories a start of 71 MPs". Where was he when the numbers were cut to 59 in the Big Brother House doing cat impersonations.Alanbrooke said:Mr Galloway wants to be FM
http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/scottish-independence-galloway-wants-fm-post-1-3293075
I used to rate him but now he is just barking.
"He was on last night talking absolute bollocks"
so the FM debate with Salmond should be evenly matched then ;-)0 -
Easy tiger, wasn't me that mentioned violins, or said it was an easy job. Why respond to me?corporeal said:
If we want to play anecdotes my mother was a teacher, so I got a close view of evening after evening spent marking, and lesson planning.isam said:
Plus a teaching assistant for "crowd control"malcolmg said:
Yes, only 17 weeks holiday excluding "service days" and having to start at 9am and shock horror work till 3pm or 4pm. Nightmare life they lead. I will get my violin ready for the "marking papers till midnight" with a bottle of pinot grigio quotes.Wulfrun_Phil said:On thread:
"In addition there are retirees as well as friends and families of teachers."
Definitely not to be underestimated. Find me a partner of a teacher who doesn't consider that teaching has taken over their partner's life outside of school (as well as constraining their own significantly).
Gove's actions seem to be governed more by the interests of Mr Gove than those of the Conservative Party. What counts for him is how many brownie points he can gain off Conservative party members.
My Dad was a teacher, now a teaching assistant... thinks Goves 100% right.
The school he assists in was rated "Special measures" recently... as Morrissey might say, the teachers are afraid of the pupils
Also used to be a Labour voter, now UKIP.
Shove your violin up your arse if you think teachers have an easy job.
My Dad was a PE teacher who spent hours after school training the football teams... he loved it, and that made it not a job at all0 -
Hm0
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Aww come on malc you should see what I give Avery :-)malcolmg said:
You are a bad man AlanAlanbrooke said:malcolmg said:
He was on last night talking absolute bollocks, he seems to be in a time warp as every answer was "that will give the Tories a start of 71 MPs". Where was he when the numbers were cut to 59 in the Big Brother House doing cat impersonations.Alanbrooke said:Mr Galloway wants to be FM
http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/scottish-independence-galloway-wants-fm-post-1-3293075
I used to rate him but now he is just barking.
"He was on last night talking absolute bollocks"
so the FM debate with Salmond should be evenly matched then ;-)0 -
But most construction contracts have provisions for interim payments on a monthly basis. This would seem a rather obvious way of valuing the work in that month. Clearly does not apply to house builders building for themselves which is thankfully now happening in much increased numbers but it should not be that hard.AveryLP said:
DavidDavidL said:
The same comment is made in this article:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/10616188/Pound-jumps-as-construction-hits-six-and-a-half-year-high.htmlAveryLP said:Roll up, roll up, get the Good News here first
...
In the ST this weekend David Smith noted in a ps that does not appear on his website:
"consumer spending in the third quarter (for which we have data) was slightly lower as a percentage of GDP than when the coalition took over in 2010. Consumers' real disposible income is rising -in aggregate 3.4% up on pre-crisis levels- but consumer spending is 1.5% lower, The savings ratio, 5.4%, compares with a pre-crisis 0.2%."
So on the most up to date figures we in fact have the complete opposite of a consumer led boom. David Smith or David Blanchflower, who to believe?
Caught up late with your post on the previous thread.
Construction stats are amongst the most prone to later revision by the ONS mainly because projects span many accounting periods and it is difficult to measure 'work in progress' (or movements in 'inventory') accurately.
I guess the industry, particularly in the residential sector, times its completions to coincide with seasonal sales demand. So they aim to complete before spring and through the summer months.
It won't necessarily follow that builders are idle in the winter months, though output is more likely to be affected by adverse weather conditions, just that the focus will change to advancing projects rather than completing them.
ONS's first projection of GDP is based on only 40% of the fulll input data needed for final figures. The rest is estimated on the basis of past performance data. I have visions of an ONS functionary on the telephone to a construction company:
"What do you mean by "it's half finished"? Are the windows in?"
"No, but we decided to do the doors first on this project".
Nightmare stuff for statisticians.
I thought David Smith's stats were interesting as it is the opposite of the current perception that this is a consumption boom built on the back of a housing bubble. Real progress is being made albeit more slowly than everyone would want in some ideal world.
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Of course, our "world class" private school system is actually failing its pupils. According to the PISA ratings, once you factor in the socio-economic backgrounds of the pupils who attend them private schools here perform worse than state-run schools:
http://www.oecd.org/pisa/pisaproducts/pisainfocus/48482894.pdf
See chart on second page.
Our top private schools are truly outstanding. But then so are our top state schools.0 -
I remember the jubilant hysteria from the Cleggites at the time. Curiously, some lib dems were not so easily convinced as you can see from the comments.corporeal said:
Lib Dem membership actually rose last year Mick. This was after years of falling, but we take what positives we can.Mick_Pork said:
The easiest way to eliminate the inconsistencies and odd results that isolated local by-elections throw up is to look at the mass of of council elections when they are held.Carnyx said:I don't know how far this is an explanation for the observed results, or if anyone has allowed for this (and it could end up reinforcing the apparent trend, of course), but it is something to bear in mind.
Those are far more valuable and accurate than taking one or two locals and trying to foolishly read everything into them.
Sadly for Clegg they continually show that, though lib dems have been flatlining on 10% for years, the number of activists and councillors just keeps dropping hard. Year on year on year.
http://www.libdemvoice.org/lib-dem-membership-up-for-first-quarter-in-a-decade-outside-elections-36537.html
http://www.libdemvoice.org/2000-new-lib-dem-members-join-in-last-3-months-of-2013-first-governing-party-in-recent-history-to-have-increased-its-membership-while-in-power-37665.html
Activists and members are also not quite the same thing. Members do not always translate to those willing to brave all weathers and trudge up and down streets. I would also suggest that there is a fairly sizable amount of lib dem members who are sitting on their hands until all the 'Clegg unpleasantness' is behind them. I say this because whenever I go to lib dem blogs during flashpoints they are always very visible and very vocal.
If some lib dems and Cleggites think it's a turning point then so be it. They might be wiser to wait until May to be certain.
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Lib Dem MP for Wells, Tessa Munt, reselected:
http://www.burnham-on-sea.com/news/2014/tessa-re-selected-04-02-14.php
Caroline Nokes reselected as Tory candidate for Romsey & Southampton North:
http://romsey.conservativesintouch.com/news/270/0 -
Gove is an example of taking the difficult decisions which will benefit the country in the long term against the perpetual spin of the last Labour government.0
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But our problem isn't at the top it's at the bottom and that's the bit that has been ignored by all govts since the war.SouthamObserver said:Of course, our "world class" private school system is actually failing its pupils. According to the PISA ratings, once you factor in the socio-economic backgrounds of the pupils who attend them private schools here perform worse than state-run schools:
http://www.oecd.org/pisa/pisaproducts/pisainfocus/48482894.pdf
See chart on second page.
Our top private schools are truly outstanding. But then so are our top state schools.0 -
currystar said:
When you have an industry that employs hundreds of thousands and only sacked 18 people for incompetence in 40 years you are hardly going to take them with you. They are going to want the status quo.john_zims said:@Hugh
'Hucks is right below. If you want to make changes you take people with you,'
We all remember how responsive the trade unions were to New Labour's health & education reforms.
In 20 years my firm which only employs 50 people has got rid of more electricians for incompetence than the teachers sacked in 40 years.
Firstly you're conflating two things, being sacked and being struck off.
Secondly I'm finding a lot of conflicting reports about the 18 in 40 years things. A little odd to say the least.
Scratch that, 18 in 40 years is pretty definitely wrong.0 -
I agree. So let's look at things that have been shown to make a difference. Now, if you examine what has happened in London over the last 10 years ....Alanbrooke said:
But our problem isn't at the top it's at the bottom and that's the bit that has been ignored by all govts since the war.SouthamObserver said:Of course, our "world class" private school system is actually failing its pupils. According to the PISA ratings, once you factor in the socio-economic backgrounds of the pupils who attend them private schools here perform worse than state-run schools:
http://www.oecd.org/pisa/pisaproducts/pisainfocus/48482894.pdf
See chart on second page.
Our top private schools are truly outstanding. But then so are our top state schools.
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What's happened ?SouthamObserver said:
I agree. So let's look at things that have been shown to make a difference. Now, if you examine what has happened in London over the last 10 years ....Alanbrooke said:
But our problem isn't at the top it's at the bottom and that's the bit that has been ignored by all govts since the war.SouthamObserver said:Of course, our "world class" private school system is actually failing its pupils. According to the PISA ratings, once you factor in the socio-economic backgrounds of the pupils who attend them private schools here perform worse than state-run schools:
http://www.oecd.org/pisa/pisaproducts/pisainfocus/48482894.pdf
See chart on second page.
Our top private schools are truly outstanding. But then so are our top state schools.0 -
Reckon Wells could well be a tory gain next election.AndyJS said:Lib Dem MP for Wells, Tessa Munt, reselected:
http://www.burnham-on-sea.com/news/2014/tessa-re-selected-04-02-14.php
Caroline Nokes reselected as Tory candidate for Romsey & Southampton North:
http://romsey.conservativesintouch.com/news/270/0 -
''Our top private schools are truly outstanding.''
Surely, weighting academic results to socio-economic background must be a precarious business.
An A's not an A if your dad drives a Range Rover....its actually a B plus.
And you knock off the plus if he drives an Aston.0 -
What difficult decisions has he taken?perdix said:Gove is an example of taking the difficult decisions which will benefit the country in the long term against the perpetual spin of the last Labour government.
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Messages of support for Tim Yeo's unsuccessful candidacy for the 2015 election:
http://www.timyeo2015.net/comments.php
MPs who wrote in support:
David Cameron
Nick Herbert
Richard Benyon
John Penrose
Andrew Robathan
Sajid Javid
Dan Byles
Hugh Robertson
Nick Soames
Edward Leigh
Andrew Murrison
Nick Boles
Hugo Swire
Charles Hendry
Laurence Robertson
Alan Haselhurst
Ian Liddell-Grainger
Gary Streeter
David Amess
George Young
Oliver Letwin
Gregory Barker
Damian Green
Simon Burns
Jonathan Djanogly
James Clappison
Robert Halfon
Mark Field
Edward Garnier
Zac Goldsmith
Cheryl Gillan
George Osborne
Michael Gove
Adam Afriyie
Tony Baldry
Crispin Blunt
Dan Poulter
Peter Aldous
Therese Coffey
David Ruffley
Ben Gummer
Matthew Hancock0 -
Sure, but then people often are. Given the Lib Dems publish our annual membership figures I'd be confident in the reality of the rise.Mick_Pork said:
I remember the jubilant hysteria from the Cleggites at the time. Curiously, some lib dems were not so easily convinced as you can see from the comments.corporeal said:
Lib Dem membership actually rose last year Mick. This was after years of falling, but we take what positives we can.Mick_Pork said:
The easiest way to eliminate the inconsistencies and odd results that isolated local by-elections throw up is to look at the mass of of council elections when they are held.Carnyx said:I don't know how far this is an explanation for the observed results, or if anyone has allowed for this (and it could end up reinforcing the apparent trend, of course), but it is something to bear in mind.
Those are far more valuable and accurate than taking one or two locals and trying to foolishly read everything into them.
Sadly for Clegg they continually show that, though lib dems have been flatlining on 10% for years, the number of activists and councillors just keeps dropping hard. Year on year on year.
http://www.libdemvoice.org/lib-dem-membership-up-for-first-quarter-in-a-decade-outside-elections-36537.html
http://www.libdemvoice.org/2000-new-lib-dem-members-join-in-last-3-months-of-2013-first-governing-party-in-recent-history-to-have-increased-its-membership-while-in-power-37665.html
Activists and members are also not quite the same thing. Members do not always translate to those willing to brave all weathers and trudge up and down streets. I would also suggest that there is a fairly sizable amount of lib dem members who are sitting on their hands until all the 'Clegg unpleasantness' is behind them. I say this because whenever I go to lib dem blogs during flashpoints they are always very visible and very vocal.
If some lib dems and Cleggites think it's a turning point then so be it. They might be wiser to wait until May to be certain.
Activists and members are certainly not the same thing, but we have good data on Lib Dem membership, measuring activist numbers is a lot trickier.0 -
It's entirely deliberate as the 'Cousin Seth' so many others use was yawn inducing and wearying after only a few days of it on here. They can keep humouring you all they wish. Certainly doesn't mean I am obliged to.AveryLP said:
I am not sure it is deliberate.0 -
DavidL said:
I work in the glass industry and large projects are apparently accounted for in a very similiar way to medium-large scale construction.AveryLP said:DavidL said:
But most construction contracts have provisions for interim payments on a monthly basis. This would seem a rather obvious way of valuing the work in that month. Clearly does not apply to house builders building for themselves which is thankfully now happening in much increased numbers but it should not be that hard.AveryLP said:Roll up, roll up, get the Good News here first
...
David
Caught up late with your post on the previous thread.
Construction stats are amongst the most prone to later revision by the ONS mainly because projects span many accounting periods and it is difficult to measure 'work in progress' (or movements in 'inventory') accurately.
I guess the industry, particularly in the residential sector, times its completions to coincide with seasonal sales demand. So they aim to complete before spring and through the summer months.
It won't necessarily follow that builders are idle in the winter months, though output is more likely to be affected by adverse weather conditions, just that the focus will change to advancing projects rather than completing them.
ONS's first projection of GDP is based on only 40% of the fulll input data needed for final figures. The rest is estimated on the basis of past performance data. I have visions of an ONS functionary on the telephone to a construction company:
"What do you mean by "it's half finished"? Are the windows in?"
"No, but we decided to do the doors first on this project".
Nightmare stuff for statisticians.
I thought David Smith's stats were interesting as it is the opposite of the current perception that this is a consumption boom built on the back of a housing bubble. Real progress is being made albeit more slowly than everyone would want in some ideal world.
The interim payments don't correspond to the stage of completion of the project, it is the COSTS on a project at any given moment in time that are the important driver to determine the accounts at any particular point. Projects can also come in under/over budget (It can be hard to tell exactly) so I'd imagine there is plenty of scope for revision.0 -
Oh right!AveryLP said:
isamisam said:How come Mick Pork keeps calling Avery LP "Seth O Logue", but whenever I mention tim it disappears down the memory hole?
Pork gets a little muddled with names.
I am not sure it is deliberate.
Best just to humour him by ignoring the mistakes.
I always get the first names of posh boy/90s English actors and tennis players mixed up myself!!
By the way you may call me Sam, the i was added because I had problems logging in on the laptop so used a diff name for the ipad
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David Smith is a good and reliable analyst and does his homework.DavidL said:
But most construction contracts have provisions for interim payments on a monthly basis. This would seem a rather obvious way of valuing the work in that month. Clearly does not apply to house builders building for themselves which is thankfully now happening in much increased numbers but it should not be that hard.AveryLP said:
DavidDavidL said:
Caught up late with your post on the previous thread.
Construction stats are amongst the most prone to later revision by the ONS mainly because projects span many accounting periods and it is difficult to measure 'work in progress' (or movements in 'inventory') accurately.
I guess the industry, particularly in the residential sector, times its completions to coincide with seasonal sales demand. So they aim to complete before spring and through the summer months.
It won't necessarily follow that builders are idle in the winter months, though output is more likely to be affected by adverse weather conditions, just that the focus will change to advancing projects rather than completing them.
ONS's first projection of GDP is based on only 40% of the fulll input data needed for final figures. The rest is estimated on the basis of past performance data. I have visions of an ONS functionary on the telephone to a construction company:
"What do you mean by "it's half finished"? Are the windows in?"
"No, but we decided to do the doors first on this project".
Nightmare stuff for statisticians.
I thought David Smith's stats were interesting as it is the opposite of the current perception that this is a consumption boom built on the back of a housing bubble. Real progress is being made albeit more slowly than everyone would want in some ideal world.
I have though been put off chasing down Telegraph articles on the economy by another_richard posting a link to a Liam Halligan blog. ar described it as "a very good article".
I dutifully followed ar's link and have been since fulminating at the inaccuracies, false assumptions and wrong conclusions reached by Halligan.
I even have six full posts with plentiful yellow boxes queued up pending ar's return. And these posts only half address the first two paragraphs of analysis!
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See belowcorporeal said:currystar said:
When you have an industry that employs hundreds of thousands and only sacked 18 people for incompetence in 40 years you are hardly going to take them with you. They are going to want the status quo.john_zims said:@Hugh
'Hucks is right below. If you want to make changes you take people with you,'
We all remember how responsive the trade unions were to New Labour's health & education reforms.
In 20 years my firm which only employs 50 people has got rid of more electricians for incompetence than the teachers sacked in 40 years.
Firstly you're conflating two things, being sacked and being struck off.
Secondly I'm finding a lot of conflicting reports about the 18 in 40 years things. A little odd to say the least.
Scratch that, 18 in 40 years is pretty definitely wrong.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/07/how_should_incompetent_teacher.html
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See below.currystar said:
See belowcorporeal said:currystar said:
When you have an industry that employs hundreds of thousands and only sacked 18 people for incompetence in 40 years you are hardly going to take them with you. They are going to want the status quo.john_zims said:@Hugh
'Hucks is right below. If you want to make changes you take people with you,'
We all remember how responsive the trade unions were to New Labour's health & education reforms.
In 20 years my firm which only employs 50 people has got rid of more electricians for incompetence than the teachers sacked in 40 years.
Firstly you're conflating two things, being sacked and being struck off.
Secondly I'm finding a lot of conflicting reports about the 18 in 40 years things. A little odd to say the least.
Scratch that, 18 in 40 years is pretty definitely wrong.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2010/07/how_should_incompetent_teacher.html
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201011/cmhansrd/cm111220/text/111220w0006.htm#1112215002130
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David Cameroon @davecameroon 1h
Michael Gove's World War 1 history lesson: /ht @thistoomustpass @PrivateEyeNews pic.twitter.com/4rHcRI5t4K0 -
I'd have thought the Lib Dems losses being as bad, if not worse here, would have been equally of importance but no, it's all about Gove for some on PB.0
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One of the things I find impressive about Gove is that he repeatedly focusses his efforts and initiatives on the children from poorer backgrounds and seems genuinely concerned about their lack of opportunity. No doubt some of that is just politics but does anyone from Labour ever think "what did we do for those poor kids in 13 years?" Surely it cannot be all about producer interests.0
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Labour (and the educational establishment generally) got themselves in a mindset where poverty (or, to be more accurate, relative poverty in an affluent country - of course it's not poverty as someone in Shanghai would understand the word) was the main or only explanation for educational failure. That's a self-fulfulling prophecy, and of course a wonderful excuse for the failures. It's not the government's/LEA's/school's/teachers' fault, the children are on free school meals so of course they won't achieve much.DavidL said:does anyone from Labour ever think "what did we do for those poor kids in 13 years?" Surely it cannot be all about producer interests.
It's a pernicious attitude ("the soft bigotry of low expectations"), that Gove is rightly trying to stamp out0 -
What is the evidence for Gove's focus on the prospects of the poorest kids? He talks a lot about them as all previous education secretaries have, but it's a struggle to see what he has actually done. The Academy programme, for example, has been all about taking the best performing schools out of local authority control, not the worst performing ones - which was Labour's priority and which had significantly dragged up standards. Then there is also his scrapping of the London Challenge, which had also - demonstrably - helped the poorest kids in London.DavidL said:One of the things I find impressive about Gove is that he repeatedly focusses his efforts and initiatives on the children from poorer backgrounds and seems genuinely concerned about their lack of opportunity. No doubt some of that is just politics but does anyone from Labour ever think "what did we do for those poor kids in 13 years?" Surely it cannot be all about producer interests.
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https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/michael-gove-at-the-national-college-annual-conferenceSouthamObserver said:What is the evidence for Gove's focus on the prospects of the poorest kids? He talks a lot about them as all previous education secretaries have, but it's a struggle to see what he has actually done. The Academy programme, for example, has been all about taking the best performing schools out of local authority control, not the worst performing ones - which was Labour's priority and which had significantly dragged up standards. Then there is also his scrapping of the London Challenge, which had also - demonstrably - helped the poorest kids in London.
You keep ignoring this. as do those who make the ridiculous claim that Gove is anti-teacher.0 -
@Scapheap_as_was
'I'd have thought the Lib Dems losses being as bad, if not worse here, would have been equally of importance but no, it's all about Gove for some on PB.'
Surely the Laws stage managed stuff at the weekend is going to change that?0 -
If you actually bothered to read what Michael Gove actually says, you would find out. See the link I just posted for Southam.Hugh said:
What's Gove's answer to kids from difficult backgrounds who are genuinely struggling?
Make them do lines? Go to one of Toby Young's schools and learn Latin, then if you fail you deserve everything you get in life you horrible oik?0 -
I couldn't agree more. It is this challenge of low expectations for poorer kids that for me is by far the most important aspect of Gove's work, much more important than school structures although I appreciate that the Academies are focussed at seeking to address these poorer schools in many cases.RichardNabavi said:
Labour (and the educational establishment generally) got themselves in a mindset where poverty (or, to be more accurate, relative poverty in an affluent country - of course it's not poverty as someone in Shanghai would understand the word) was the main or only explanation for educational failure. That's a self-fulfulling prophecy, and of course a wonderful excuse for the failures. It's not the government's/LEA's/school's/teachers' fault, the children are on free school meals so of course they won't achieve much.DavidL said:does anyone from Labour ever think "what did we do for those poor kids in 13 years?" Surely it cannot be all about producer interests.
It's a pernicious attitude ("the soft bigotry of low expectations"), that Gove is rightly trying to stamp out
It is desperately disappointing that no one seems even remotely concerned about poorer performing schools in Scotland. We have no special measures, no such challenges at all. Schools continue year after year failing generation after generation of children condemning them to intermittent employment and low wages.
The best of Scottish education used to be very good indeed and it still exceeded the average in England in the latest PISAs, although not by much. As Southam Observer and others have pointed out though it is not the best that needs attention but the bottom 20% of schools.
School results published in our area show the same schools at the bottom for performance as was the case 30 years ago. You cannot get a worse example of the soft bigotry of low expectations than that.
0 -
Good - I am not ignoring it, what I saw was the London Challenge being scrapped. However, if it is being built on - excellent. As I said repeatedly on here yesterday, given the way that London has been turned around, there is absolutely no excuse for it not to be happening elsewhere in the country too. We have a very powerful template.RichardNabavi said:
https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/michael-gove-at-the-national-college-annual-conferenceSouthamObserver said:What is the evidence for Gove's focus on the prospects of the poorest kids? He talks a lot about them as all previous education secretaries have, but it's a struggle to see what he has actually done. The Academy programme, for example, has been all about taking the best performing schools out of local authority control, not the worst performing ones - which was Labour's priority and which had significantly dragged up standards. Then there is also his scrapping of the London Challenge, which had also - demonstrably - helped the poorest kids in London.
You keep ignoring this. as do those who make the ridiculous claim that Gove is anti-teacher.
That said, like Gove I hope you will now admit that the last government facilitated a remarkable turnaround in London and that this rather flies in the face of your notion that it was in thrall to producer interests and not concerned about the performance of the poorest children.
0 -
That's all probably true, but, do you honestly believe the current crop of Labour MPs would understand and have the courage to solve the challenges that education faces in this country?Hugh said:
Jeez. Now, IDS I can just about buy this "genuine concern" excuse with. Stupid and wretched his failed "Universal Credit" and other "reforms" are, he did visit a council estate a couple of times or something, and seemed to have a firm grasp of the issues for a while (before he actually got into Government).DavidL said:One of the things I find impressive about Gove is that he repeatedly focusses his efforts and initiatives on the children from poorer backgrounds and seems genuinely concerned about their lack of opportunity. .
But Gove? Gove?
Tristram Hunt? Is that the man? Is he gonna be the one to do it? He won't turn out to be just another out of touch fop? What will he do, apart from just throw borrowed money at it? My guess is he'll be just as mediocre as the rest.
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You're losing the argument with shrill, facile mischaracterisations like that.Hugh said:
What's Gove's answer to kids from difficult backgrounds who are genuinely struggling?RichardNabavi said:
Labour (and the educational establishment generally) got themselves in a mindset where poverty (or, to be more accurate, relative poverty in an affluent country - of course it's not poverty as someone in Shanghai would understand the word) was the main or only explanation for educational failure. That's a self-fulfulling prophecy, and of course a wonderful excuse for the failures. It's not the government's/LEA's/school's/teachers' fault, the children are on free school meals so of course they won't achieve much.DavidL said:does anyone from Labour ever think "what did we do for those poor kids in 13 years?" Surely it cannot be all about producer interests.
It's a pernicious attitude ("the soft bigotry of low expectations"), that Gove is rightly trying to stamp out
Make them do lines? Go to one of Toby Young's schools and learn Latin, then if you fail you deserve everything you get in life you horrible oik?0 -
Yes most of my mates are sparks, and most are switching to UKIP... although not all from Labour.Hugh said:
Lots of them about eh?isam said:
Plus a teaching assistant for "crowd control"malcolmg said:
Yes, only 17 weeks holiday excluding "service days" and having to start at 9am and shock horror work till 3pm or 4pm. Nightmare life they lead. I will get my violin ready for the "marking papers till midnight" with a bottle of pinot grigio quotes.Wulfrun_Phil said:On thread:
"In addition there are retirees as well as friends and families of teachers."
Definitely not to be underestimated. Find me a partner of a teacher who doesn't consider that teaching has taken over their partner's life outside of school (as well as constraining their own significantly).
Gove's actions seem to be governed more by the interests of Mr Gove than those of the Conservative Party. What counts for him is how many brownie points he can gain off Conservative party members.
My Dad was a teacher, now a teaching assistant... thinks Goves 100% right.
The school he assists in was rated "Special measures" recently... as Morrissey might say, the teachers are afraid of the pupils
Also used to be a Labour voter, now UKIP.
Bet a load of the sparks you say you "knock about with" are Lab-UKIP switchers too eh?
Lol
What's UKIP's policy on education, dare I ask?
Why Lol? Why "say" I knock about with???!
Why do you think I am lying about everything when I can honestly say I have never told a lie on here?
UKIPs main education policy is to encourage the reintroduction of Grammar Schools of course, the best way for poor children to get to Oxbridge, as recommended by Harriet Harman, Diane abbot and Emily Thornberry
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This is precisely why Labour won't get over 40% !TwistedFireStopper said:
That's all probably true, but, do you honestly believe the current crop of Labour MPs would understand and have the courage to solve the challenges that education faces in this country?Hugh said:
Jeez. Now, IDS I can just about buy this "genuine concern" excuse with. Stupid and wretched his failed "Universal Credit" and other "reforms" are, he did visit a council estate a couple of times or something, and seemed to have a firm grasp of the issues for a while (before he actually got into Government).DavidL said:One of the things I find impressive about Gove is that he repeatedly focusses his efforts and initiatives on the children from poorer backgrounds and seems genuinely concerned about their lack of opportunity. .
But Gove? Gove?
Tristram Hunt? Is that the man? Is he gonna be the one to do it? He won't turn out to be just another out of touch fop? What will he do, apart from just throw borrowed money at it? My guess is he'll be just as mediocre as the rest.0 -
Lazy and don't like Gove telling them to work?
What's the answer that Labour and the teaching unions would like to foist on us?? What's the model they approve of??
Wales.
The basket case of European education (Toby Young's phrase).
First world funding. Third world results. A pile of excuses. And don't expect any change soon.0 -
The Mayor of Lambeth, Cllr Mark Bennett, has sadly died at the age of 43:
http://www.london-se1.co.uk/news/view/73790 -
I've never denied it, and I've also repeatedly said that the Blair government was trying to do some good things in education, although the results didn't match the increase in expenditure. The problem was that the sensible Blairites, like Lord Adonis and Blair himself, had difficulty making any progress against obstruction from the unions, the unreformed left and Gordon Brown, so that, for example, the Academies programme was feeble in terms of numbers of schools. The even bigger problem is that the sensible strand of Labour thinking has now been completely sidelined in the party; Ed Miliband is not a Blairite, and the unions are in the ascendant again.SouthamObserver said:
That said, like Gove I hope you will now admit that the last government facilitated a remarkable turnaround in London and that this rather flies in the face of your notion that it was in thrall to producer interests and not concerned about the performance of the poorest children.0 -
The teaching unions are not affiliated to Labour. I actually struggle to see much difference between Labour and Tory education policies.RichardNabavi said:
I've never denied it, and I've also repeatedly said that the Blair government was trying to do some good things in education, although the results didn't match the increase in expenditure. The problem was that the sensible Blairites, like Lord Adonis and Blair himself, had difficulty making any progress against obstruction from the unions, the unreformed left and Gordon Brown. The even bigger problem is the sensible strand of Labour thinking has now been completely sidelined in the party; Ed Miliband is not a Blairite, and the unions are in the ascendant again.SouthamObserver said:
That said, like Gove I hope you will now admit that the last government facilitated a remarkable turnaround in London and that this rather flies in the face of your notion that it was in thrall to producer interests and not concerned about the performance of the poorest children.
0 -
I actually struggle to see much difference between Labour and Tory education policies.
You don;t see the difference between education in Wales and education in England?
0 -
Well, if you could point to what Labour's education policies are, we might be able to discuss that. The only policy I can see is opposition to everything Gove is doing.SouthamObserver said:The teaching unions are not affiliated to Labour. I actually struggle to see much difference between Labour and Tory education policies.
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The LDs think the solution to their teacher-support losses are all about Gove too!Scrapheap_as_was said:I'd have thought the Lib Dems losses being as bad, if not worse here, would have been equally of importance but no, it's all about Gove for some on PB.
http://blogs.independent.co.uk/2013/12/19/nick-cleggs-core-vote-strategy-michael-gove/
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My kids began their educations in state schools in England in 1994. They have never once come across Welsh. So, yes, I reckon there are many differences.taffys said:I actually struggle to see much difference between Labour and Tory education policies.
You don;t see the difference between education in Wales and education in England?
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What is Gove doing that Labour opposes?RichardNabavi said:
Well, if you could point to what Labour's education policies are, we might be able to discuss that. The only policy I can see is opposition to everything Gove is doing.SouthamObserver said:The teaching unions are not affiliated to Labour. I actually struggle to see much difference between Labour and Tory education policies.
0 -
Breathing?SouthamObserver said:
What is Gove doing that Labour opposes?RichardNabavi said:
Well, if you could point to what Labour's education policies are, we might be able to discuss that. The only policy I can see is opposition to everything Gove is doing.SouthamObserver said:The teaching unions are not affiliated to Labour. I actually struggle to see much difference between Labour and Tory education policies.
0 -
Why is Gove toxic for the Lib Dems too in the thread chart?Anorak said:
Breathing?SouthamObserver said:
What is Gove doing that Labour opposes?RichardNabavi said:
Well, if you could point to what Labour's education policies are, we might be able to discuss that. The only policy I can see is opposition to everything Gove is doing.SouthamObserver said:The teaching unions are not affiliated to Labour. I actually struggle to see much difference between Labour and Tory education policies.
0 -
O/T:
John Upex resigns as chairman of Harrogate & Knaresborough UKIP association, and also stands down as general election candidate:
http://www.harrogate-news.co.uk/2014/02/04/resignation-ukips-harrogate-knaresborough-association-chairman/0 -
It's a good question. Labour have been all over the place. Currently they seem obsessed with the nonsense about unqualified teachers, but that's obviously a diversionary tactic because under no scenario will there be many unqualified teachers hired. Beyond that, I really don't know what exactly it is that they oppose, but they keep telling us how dreadful Gove's reforms are, so I suppose we have to believe that they oppose them. Anyway they seem to have convinced teachers that they oppose the reforms.SouthamObserver said:What is Gove doing that Labour opposes?
0 -
As far as I could make out from this frankly embarrassing interview by Mr Hunt the differences between Labour and the Conservatives are:
(1) They only want qualified teachers in the classroom and don't care how successful they are in the private sector.
(2) They want to work with the unions and don't agree with the concept of "the blob".
(3) They want free schools that are, well not free but properly accountable.
(4) ehh....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sH7LG44rhY
They really are struggling to keep up.
0 -
Most teachers are actually working 8-6 with additional time at weekends. And let's not forget that teaching means standing up for most of the day. Marking and lessons don't do themselves, y'know.malcolmg said:
Yes, only 17 weeks holiday excluding "service days" and having to start at 9am and shock horror work till 3pm or 4pm. Nightmare life they lead. I will get my violin ready for the "marking papers till midnight" with a bottle of pinot grigio quotes.Wulfrun_Phil said:On thread:
"In addition there are retirees as well as friends and families of teachers."
Definitely not to be underestimated. Find me a partner of a teacher who doesn't consider that teaching has taken over their partner's life outside of school (as well as constraining their own significantly).
Gove's actions seem to be governed more by the interests of Mr Gove than those of the Conservative Party. What counts for him is how many brownie points he can gain off Conservative party members.
I doubt many of the smug posters who constantly criticise teachers would last a week trying to teach in an inner city comp.
0 -
I think he's perceived as a posh fop interfering with hardworking members of the community. Both Labour and the LibDems are reluctant to see any imperfections in our public servants, and hate having someone do so. The fact Gove is also in a position to do something about it only toxifies him further.Scrapheap_as_was said:
Why is Gove toxic for the Lib Dems too in the thread chart?Anorak said:
Breathing?SouthamObserver said:
What is Gove doing that Labour opposes?RichardNabavi said:
Well, if you could point to what Labour's education policies are, we might be able to discuss that. The only policy I can see is opposition to everything Gove is doing.SouthamObserver said:The teaching unions are not affiliated to Labour. I actually struggle to see much difference between Labour and Tory education policies.
Plus he's seen as a bit odd, and can come over as superior and supercilious. A lot of voters (e.g. my mum) like his policies but find him "a bit creepy".
I, on the other hand, think he's great.0 -
He tried for MSP in Glasgow and got less than 1% of voteCarnyx said:
Bit of a taxonomically mixed metaphor there ...surely you mean miaowing ... . It will take a long time to forget the image of him in a fluorescent pink catsuit - but it would certainly be brave to move from Bradford to Scotland where Respect got, on checking, I find, about 3-4% at the last general election ... I had forgotten what a long and complex anabasis he has had.malcolmg said:
He was on last night talking absolute bollocks, he seems to be in a time warp as every answer was "that will give the Tories a start of 71 MPs". Where was he when the numbers were cut to 59 in the Big Brother House doing cat impersonations.Alanbrooke said:Mr Galloway wants to be FM
http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/scottish-independence-galloway-wants-fm-post-1-3293075
I used to rate him but now he is just barking.0 -
El_Capitano said:
Oh yes they can.Socrates said:I find it amazing how easily the unions have manipulated their members into an anti-Tory position. I know a lot of teachers that will have a go at Gove, but when you ask them to explain precisely how his reforms are bad, they can't come up with anything at all.
Mrs Capitano is at work right now, teaching the little darlings. But I can tell you, off the top of my head, two things: the elevation of synthetic phonics to a universal truth (yes, it's one way of teaching literacy, but by no means the most suitable for all children), and the gutting of local authority budgets and consequent disappearance of some very good support staff. There are many more.
She will, and does, give Gove credit for certain changes. But to say "can't come up with anything at all" is trivially disprovable, even if you disagree with the reasons.
Mrs Capitano is a union member (NASUWT) purely for the liability insurance. The union magazine goes straight in the bin when it arrives. She voted LibDem in 2010 and, I think, will be voting Labour in 2015 largely because of Gove.
"the elevation of synthetic phonics to a universal truth (yes, it's one way of teaching literacy, but by no means the most suitable for all children"
The thing about that though is if it's most suitable for *some* then its abandonment in the past might have had a pretty bad impact on those some.
I read (dunno if true) that phonics is good for dumber kids but slows down brighter kids. If so that leads to the possibility that the sort of kids who didn't need it and ended up being education academics in the 60s scrapped phonics because it was no use for *them* and in the process trashed the chance of learning to read to their full limit for 1/3 or maybe even 2/3 of the population.
This would be pretty significant as reading to education is like the money supply to economics. If it gets screwed up then everything that's built on it gets screwed up too.
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Ah. A thread I don't need to read to know what's been said.0
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Alan, now the insults get worse , comparing me with Avery even if flatteringly, it is an injustice.Alanbrooke said:
Aww come on malc you should see what I give Avery :-)malcolmg said:
You are a bad man AlanAlanbrooke said:malcolmg said:
He was on last night talking absolute bollocks, he seems to be in a time warp as every answer was "that will give the Tories a start of 71 MPs". Where was he when the numbers were cut to 59 in the Big Brother House doing cat impersonations.Alanbrooke said:Mr Galloway wants to be FM
http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/scottish-independence-galloway-wants-fm-post-1-3293075
I used to rate him but now he is just barking.
"He was on last night talking absolute bollocks"
so the FM debate with Salmond should be evenly matched then ;-)0 -
The conscientious and hard working teachers undoubtedly work hard and long at a difficult and demanding job. Just think back to those teachers on Educating Yorkshire. They were truly inspirational.not_on_fire said:
Most teachers are actually working 8-6 with additional time at weekends. And let's not forget that teaching means standing up for most of the day. Marking and lessons don't do themselves, y'know.malcolmg said:
Yes, only 17 weeks holiday excluding "service days" and having to start at 9am and shock horror work till 3pm or 4pm. Nightmare life they lead. I will get my violin ready for the "marking papers till midnight" with a bottle of pinot grigio quotes.Wulfrun_Phil said:On thread:
"In addition there are retirees as well as friends and families of teachers."
Definitely not to be underestimated. Find me a partner of a teacher who doesn't consider that teaching has taken over their partner's life outside of school (as well as constraining their own significantly).
Gove's actions seem to be governed more by the interests of Mr Gove than those of the Conservative Party. What counts for him is how many brownie points he can gain off Conservative party members.
I doubt many of the smug posters who constantly criticise teachers would last a week trying to teach in an inner city comp.
What has let the profession as a whole down for far too long is the way that those who just want to drift along are tolerated or moved on from school to school without anyone getting a grip of the problem. Unfortunately far too many of the latter type of teachers have ended up in the worst schools who have difficulties in obtaining a retaining staff where very little is expected of them consolidating the problem.
This is what needs to change. Inner City comps are genuinely challenging and should have the very best teachers who should be the best paid in their profession because those kids need more teaching and effort, not less. That is fundamentally Gove's message and he is right.
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There is broad agreement on the need for reform, there are differences in terms of implementation which it suits both sides to amplify.RichardNabavi said:
It's a good question. Labour have been all over the place. Currently they seem obsessed with the nonsense about unqualified teachers, but that's obviously a diversionary tactic because under no scenario will there be many unqualified teachers hired. Beyond that, I really don't know what exactly it is that they oppose, but they keep telling us how dreadful Gove's reforms are, so I suppose we have to believe that they oppose them. Anyway they seem to have convinced teachers that they oppose the reforms.SouthamObserver said:What is Gove doing that Labour opposes?
0 -
Off topic:
This is a very funny and well-observed video for those who have to endure conference calls on a frequent basis. If you don't have to suffer that particular torture, it will make no sense whatsoever!
http://happyplace.someecards.com/28853/how-much-more-annoying-conference-call-would-be-in-real-life0 -
I see the retiring head of Sainsbury has stated the bleedin obvious:
“Once it is a separate country, we and other retailers will take a view of what the cost structure is of that industry, and of course the revenue structure too. If you were to strike that today, there is no doubt Scotland is a more costly country [in which] to run a grocery retail business.”
The same article also includes a comment John Fingleton, former chair of the Irish Competition Authority and chief executive of the UK’s Office of Fair Trading:
“Scotland is very sparsely populated and retailers carry that extra distribution cost out of the centre. If those costs are isolated to Scotland only, it will just push up the prices in Scotland and lower prices in England. All of the retail sectors where in-time distribution matters [will be looking at this].”
http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/f1c6ff1e-8c71-11e3-bcf2-00144feab7de.html
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That's about 47 hours a week, but if you factor in the additional holidays it brings it down to about 40.not_on_fire said:
Most teachers are actually working 8-6 with additional time at weekends. And let's not forget that teaching means standing up for most of the day. Marking and lessons don't do themselves, y'know.malcolmg said:
Yes, only 17 weeks holiday excluding "service days" and having to start at 9am and shock horror work till 3pm or 4pm. Nightmare life they lead. I will get my violin ready for the "marking papers till midnight" with a bottle of pinot grigio quotes.Wulfrun_Phil said:On thread:
"In addition there are retirees as well as friends and families of teachers."
Definitely not to be underestimated. Find me a partner of a teacher who doesn't consider that teaching has taken over their partner's life outside of school (as well as constraining their own significantly).
Gove's actions seem to be governed more by the interests of Mr Gove than those of the Conservative Party. What counts for him is how many brownie points he can gain off Conservative party members.
I doubt many of the smug posters who constantly criticise teachers would last a week trying to teach in an inner city comp.
The problem with teaching is the way it is done: very intensively over about 39 weeks of the year with set breaks. I am always struck by how knackered some of my teacher friends are by the end of the half term.
Also my experience is that teachers are w**kers when it comes to management, as many of them are crap at dealing with adults. So that adds to the crapness of being a classroom teacher: your manager is probably an idiot.
But: spread out over the year teaching seems to me about par for the course for a professional job. If teachers want less intensiveness during term time, and still the same amount of time off, maybe they have to accept they will get paid about one-seventh less than they would otherwise expect.
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private tutorsSouthamObserver said:
I agree. So let's look at things that have been shown to make a difference. Now, if you examine what has happened in London over the last 10 years ....Alanbrooke said:
But our problem isn't at the top it's at the bottom and that's the bit that has been ignored by all govts since the war.SouthamObserver said:Of course, our "world class" private school system is actually failing its pupils. According to the PISA ratings, once you factor in the socio-economic backgrounds of the pupils who attend them private schools here perform worse than state-run schools:
http://www.oecd.org/pisa/pisaproducts/pisainfocus/48482894.pdf
See chart on second page.
Our top private schools are truly outstanding. But then so are our top state schools.0 -
Looks like its the end of the road for KP...
Piers Morgan @piersmorgan 15m
I can confirm Kevin Pietersen has been SACKED by the pathetic, spineless losers at the @ECB . Unbelievable.0 -
Excellent. There must be a form where we can tick off each of those events. I have one tomorrow with agents in 2 towns and a client in South Africa. I am not optimistic.Anorak said:Off topic:
This is a very funny and well-observed video for those who have to endure conference calls on a frequent basis. If you don't have to suffer that particular torture, it will make no sense whatsoever!
http://happyplace.someecards.com/28853/how-much-more-annoying-conference-call-would-be-in-real-life
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Yes, Michael Gove has learnt from the successes - and more importantly, the failures - of Labour's most successful PM ever.
It's ironic that "Labour's most successful leader" (I disagree Atlee was more successful having never polled less than 46% vote share and 11.9 million votes in General elections as leader) managed also to 'lose' 4 million votes. A feat no other Labour leader managed to achieve.
It will be interesting to see if Gove gets the chance to learn from Blair's greatest failure.0 -
@anotherDave
'The LDs think the solution to their teacher-support losses are all about Gove too!
http://blogs.independent.co.uk/2013/12/19/nick-cleggs-core-vote-strategy-michael-gove/
Explains David Laws antics at the weekend.0 -
If someone who's been teaching for 20 years starts to think the poison they were taught in teacher training collage has been actively harming the kids they taught for 20 years then that's a lot of nasty cognitive dissonance that they might prefer to blank out.Hugh said:the ridiculous claim that Gove is anti-teacher
So why do teachers despise him?
Are they too thick to understand that everything he's throwing at them is for their own good? Too leftwing to work for the benefit of the kids they teach, brainwashed by The Unions?
Lazy and don't like Gove telling them to work?
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Maybe Labour isn't to blame for Wales... and shouldn't take the credit for London eitherMrJones said:
private tutorsSouthamObserver said:
I agree. So let's look at things that have been shown to make a difference. Now, if you examine what has happened in London over the last 10 years ....Alanbrooke said:
But our problem isn't at the top it's at the bottom and that's the bit that has been ignored by all govts since the war.SouthamObserver said:Of course, our "world class" private school system is actually failing its pupils. According to the PISA ratings, once you factor in the socio-economic backgrounds of the pupils who attend them private schools here perform worse than state-run schools:
http://www.oecd.org/pisa/pisaproducts/pisainfocus/48482894.pdf
See chart on second page.
Our top private schools are truly outstanding. But then so are our top state schools.
"Nearly one in four 11-16 year olds at state schools in England and Wales indicated that their parents had paid for them to have extra help with their lessons. Polling by Ipsos MORI for the Sutton Trust shows that 24% of all young people in 2013 said they had received private or home tuition at some stage in their school career, compared with 18% in 2005 and 23% in 2012.
Those numbers are much higher for young people in London. 40% of Londoners had received some extra tuition over their school careers, with 24% saying they had benefited from extra coaching in the last year alone. By contrast, only 9% of Welsh pupils had ever received any private or home tuition, including 5% over the last year."
http://www.suttontrust.com/news/news/londoners-most-likely-to-pay-for-extra-tuition-as-demand/0 -
BBC now confirming that KP will not be selected for the WI tour or the T20 world cup finals.
Presumably he will now just focus on making money in the IPL. Shame. A remarkable talent if a somewhat problematic team mate.
Edit "ECB managing director Paul Downton said: "The time is right to rebuild not only the team but also the team ethic." "
Well that is clear enough.0 -
Of course Clegg's betrayal of his party over tuition fees had nothing to do with that lost support.john_zims said:@anotherDave
'The LDs think the solution to their teacher-support losses are all about Gove too!
http://blogs.independent.co.uk/2013/12/19/nick-cleggs-core-vote-strategy-michael-gove/
Explains David Laws antics at the weekend.
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Off topic, Ed Miliband needs to promote this man fast - he gets it:
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/feb/04/new-mp-politicians-arent-trusted-change-that
"I have been an MP for just over a year. In that time it's become clearer to me that people don't trust politics. But one of the reasons for this is that most politicians don't trust the people. Too many politicians think power is something for themselves rather than something to be shared with people and communities."
"People need more control over their lives. If we want people to trust politics again, it's time for politicians to show we trust the people."
No party has talked enough about this, but the party that can persuade the public that it understands this will be at a great advantage over its rivals.0 -
Does this mean Kevin Pietersen's England career is over?0
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SeanT emerges from his Bangkok slumber with a blog post on the decline of the West:
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/seanthomas/100257998/none-of-our-politicians-will-tell-you-the-truth-our-jobs-are-doomed/
"None of our politicians will tell you the truth: our jobs are doomed"0 -
Does it mean that KP has opened up opportunities to earn bigger bucks in India?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/260404750 -
I'd never imagined SeanT as a neo-Luddite, but the look suits him well.AndyJS said:SeanT emerges from his Bangkok slumber with a blog post on the decline of the West:
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/seanthomas/100257998/none-of-our-politicians-will-tell-you-the-truth-our-jobs-are-doomed/
"None of our politicians will tell you the truth: our jobs are doomed"0 -
The Conservatives talked about giving people 'more power and control over their lives' before and after the 2010 election.antifrank said:Off topic, Ed Miliband needs to promote this man fast - he gets it:
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/feb/04/new-mp-politicians-arent-trusted-change-that
"I have been an MP for just over a year. In that time it's become clearer to me that people don't trust politics. But one of the reasons for this is that most politicians don't trust the people. Too many politicians think power is something for themselves rather than something to be shared with people and communities."
"People need more control over their lives. If we want people to trust politics again, it's time for politicians to show we trust the people."
No party has talked enough about this, but the party that can persuade the public that it understands this will be at a great advantage over its rivals.
http://www.standpointmag.co.uk/node/2166/full
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/david-cameron/7884681/David-Cameron-and-Nick-Clegg-Well-transform-Britain-by-giving-power-away.html
Talk's cheap.0 -
Personally I think he needs to come back to PB and sharpen his claws a little. That piece is pretty banal.antifrank said:
I'd never imagined SeanT as a neo-Luddite, but the look suits him well.AndyJS said:SeanT emerges from his Bangkok slumber with a blog post on the decline of the West:
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/seanthomas/100257998/none-of-our-politicians-will-tell-you-the-truth-our-jobs-are-doomed/
"None of our politicians will tell you the truth: our jobs are doomed"
0 -
That does not explain the transformation of the schools in inner London - with so many now rated good or outstanding by Mr Gove's OFSTED inspectorate: see Tower Hamlets, Hackney, Camden and Islington, for example.MrJones said:
private tutorsSouthamObserver said:
I agree. So let's look at things that have been shown to make a difference. Now, if you examine what has happened in London over the last 10 years ....Alanbrooke said:
But our problem isn't at the top it's at the bottom and that's the bit that has been ignored by all govts since the war.SouthamObserver said:Of course, our "world class" private school system is actually failing its pupils. According to the PISA ratings, once you factor in the socio-economic backgrounds of the pupils who attend them private schools here perform worse than state-run schools:
http://www.oecd.org/pisa/pisaproducts/pisainfocus/48482894.pdf
See chart on second page.
Our top private schools are truly outstanding. But then so are our top state schools.
17 out of the 20 local authorities in which the gap in attainment between poorer and wealthier pupils is lowest are in London.
“The attainment gap has been a difficult nut to crack in recent years. The Pupil Premium is supposed to finally close it. But it seems we’re now seeing a national increase, and London’s disproportionate success is masking wider gaps across the country. Many local authorities are seeing either no change – or worse – an increase in the gap between the rich and poor."
http://www.demos.co.uk/press_releases/ataleoftwoclassroomslondonresultsskewnationalpictureaseducationalinequalityontherise
0 -
You're quite right, talk is cheap. The public are now going to expect very visible actions, consistently followed up and at the centre of everything that the parties do. Both the Conservatives and Labour have played around the edges of this. It needs to become a core principle: Trust The People.anotherDave said:
The Conservatives talked about giving people 'more power and control over their lives' before and after the 2010 election.antifrank said:Off topic, Ed Miliband needs to promote this man fast - he gets it:
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/feb/04/new-mp-politicians-arent-trusted-change-that
"I have been an MP for just over a year. In that time it's become clearer to me that people don't trust politics. But one of the reasons for this is that most politicians don't trust the people. Too many politicians think power is something for themselves rather than something to be shared with people and communities."
"People need more control over their lives. If we want people to trust politics again, it's time for politicians to show we trust the people."
No party has talked enough about this, but the party that can persuade the public that it understands this will be at a great advantage over its rivals.
http://www.standpointmag.co.uk/node/2166/full
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/david-cameron/7884681/David-Cameron-and-Nick-Clegg-Well-transform-Britain-by-giving-power-away.html
Talk's cheap.0 -
It would be interesting to know what KP has done that is so bad. All we have heard so far is inuendo. It may help the new management if they told the truth to the public, rather than the cover ups that have been repeated more than once in KP's England career.0
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If there's cultural differences in the rate of take-up of private tutors it might. You'd have to see if any jumps in attainment are proportional to how "normal" using private tutors is to different groups. You might also see a time-lag effect where over time other groups who weren't used to using private tutors start copying the idea.SouthamObserver said:
That does not explain the transformation of the schools in inner London - with so many now rated good or outstanding by Mr Gove's OFSTED inspectorate: see Tower Hamlets, Hackney, Camden and Islington, for example.MrJones said:
private tutorsSouthamObserver said:
I agree. So let's look at things that have been shown to make a difference. Now, if you examine what has happened in London over the last 10 years ....Alanbrooke said:
But our problem isn't at the top it's at the bottom and that's the bit that has been ignored by all govts since the war.SouthamObserver said:Of course, our "world class" private school system is actually failing its pupils. According to the PISA ratings, once you factor in the socio-economic backgrounds of the pupils who attend them private schools here perform worse than state-run schools:
http://www.oecd.org/pisa/pisaproducts/pisainfocus/48482894.pdf
See chart on second page.
Our top private schools are truly outstanding. But then so are our top state schools.
17 out of the 20 local authorities in which the gap in attainment between poorer and wealthier pupils is lowest are in London.
“The attainment gap has been a difficult nut to crack in recent years. The Pupil Premium is supposed to finally close it. But it seems we’re now seeing a national increase, and London’s disproportionate success is masking wider gaps across the country. Many local authorities are seeing either no change – or worse – an increase in the gap between the rich and poor."
http://www.demos.co.uk/press_releases/ataleoftwoclassroomslondonresultsskewnationalpictureaseducationalinequalityontherise
0 -
That's not relevant to how OFSTED judges school performance.MrJones said:
If there's cultural differences in the rate of take-up of private tutors it might. You'd have to see if any jumps in attainment are proportional to how "normal" using private tutors is to different groups. You might also see a time-lag effect where over time other groups who weren't used to using private tutors start copying the idea.SouthamObserver said:
That does not explain the transformation of the schools in inner London - with so many now rated good or outstanding by Mr Gove's OFSTED inspectorate: see Tower Hamlets, Hackney, Camden and Islington, for example.MrJones said:
private tutorsSouthamObserver said:
I agree. So let's look at things that have been shown to make a difference. Now, if you examine what has happened in London over the last 10 years ....Alanbrooke said:
But our problem isn't at the top it's at the bottom and that's the bit that has been ignored by all govts since the war.SouthamObserver said:Of course, our "world class" private school system is actually failing its pupils. According to the PISA ratings, once you factor in the socio-economic backgrounds of the pupils who attend them private schools here perform worse than state-run schools:
http://www.oecd.org/pisa/pisaproducts/pisainfocus/48482894.pdf
See chart on second page.
Our top private schools are truly outstanding. But then so are our top state schools.
17 out of the 20 local authorities in which the gap in attainment between poorer and wealthier pupils is lowest are in London.
“The attainment gap has been a difficult nut to crack in recent years. The Pupil Premium is supposed to finally close it. But it seems we’re now seeing a national increase, and London’s disproportionate success is masking wider gaps across the country. Many local authorities are seeing either no change – or worse – an increase in the gap between the rich and poor."
http://www.demos.co.uk/press_releases/ataleoftwoclassroomslondonresultsskewnationalpictureaseducationalinequalityontherise
0 -
Just reading the news about KP. England are crap so we sack our best player.
Nuts.0 -
It's incredible, whoever sacked KP should be sacked and exposed as an enemy mole.TheLastBoyScout said:Just reading the news about KP. England are crap so we sack our best player.
Nuts.
0 -
It's relevant to improved exam results though.SouthamObserver said:
That's not relevant to how OFSTED judges school performance.MrJones said:
If there's cultural differences in the rate of take-up of private tutors it might. You'd have to see if any jumps in attainment are proportional to how "normal" using private tutors is to different groups. You might also see a time-lag effect where over time other groups who weren't used to using private tutors start copying the idea.SouthamObserver said:
That does not explain the transformation of the schools in inner London - with so many now rated good or outstanding by Mr Gove's OFSTED inspectorate: see Tower Hamlets, Hackney, Camden and Islington, for example.MrJones said:
private tutorsSouthamObserver said:
I agree. So let's look at things that have been shown to make a difference. Now, if you examine what has happened in London over the last 10 years ....Alanbrooke said:
But our problem isn't at the top it's at the bottom and that's the bit that has been ignored by all govts since the war.SouthamObserver said:Of course, our "world class" private school system is actually failing its pupils. According to the PISA ratings, once you factor in the socio-economic backgrounds of the pupils who attend them private schools here perform worse than state-run schools:
http://www.oecd.org/pisa/pisaproducts/pisainfocus/48482894.pdf
See chart on second page.
Our top private schools are truly outstanding. But then so are our top state schools.
17 out of the 20 local authorities in which the gap in attainment between poorer and wealthier pupils is lowest are in London.
“The attainment gap has been a difficult nut to crack in recent years. The Pupil Premium is supposed to finally close it. But it seems we’re now seeing a national increase, and London’s disproportionate success is masking wider gaps across the country. Many local authorities are seeing either no change – or worse – an increase in the gap between the rich and poor."
http://www.demos.co.uk/press_releases/ataleoftwoclassroomslondonresultsskewnationalpictureaseducationalinequalityontherise
0 -
Derh...!Scrapheap_as_was said:Why is Gove toxic for the Lib Dems too in the thread chart?
A totally miniscule sub-sample of the [sample/total] population with an asininity to the norm, maybe? An eight-percent sample of :tumbleweed: is the stuff you pump-through German SVG software and claim "Lib-Dhimmies; whining 'ere...".
:time-for-bed:0 -
Willis on Sky: "KP has been a major disruption in every dressing room he has been in ................ negative influence ................ wants cake and eat it"0
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Katie Ghose is making a bid for the Labour nomination in Stoke-on-Trent North.
She recently failed to secure selection for Brighton Kemptown, having previously been head of the pro-AV campaign in 2011:
http://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/Londoner-Katie-Ghose-bids-Labour-candidate-Stoke/story-20538887-detail/story.html0
