politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » My 66/1 longshot for WH2020 now favourite for the Democratic n

Have you any experience of long odds tips becoming US President?

Good shout Mike. #TeamBeto here, though I have Kamala green as well.

Tissue_Price said:

Good shout Mike. #TeamBeto here, though I have Kamala green as well.

Am on the Beto train too.

Hickenlooper is still available at 66/1 for the presidency and 40/1 for the nomination with Ladbrokes and Corals.

11.6% of people living in RoI are migrants


https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/number-of-spaniards-living-in-the-state-up-by-78-census-shows-1.3633201

AlastairMeeks said:

FPT I’m afraid John Harris is looking in completely the wrong places for the causes of Brexit. Instead of investigating left-behind communities he should be visiting southern towns where complacent affluent oldies push their appalling saloon bar nonsense.

Or visit pb, where those views can be found in abundance.

Part of your problem is you just don't understand places like Stoke or Walsall. What John Harris found running up to Brexit vote in Stoke is exactly what I was hearing, and it came as no surprise.

I hope Harris gets the nod. After missing the Obama boat, I'm on at decent odds (albeit absolutely tiny stakes).

AlastairMeeks said:

FPT I’m afraid John Harris is looking in completely the wrong places for the causes of Brexit. Instead of investigating left-behind communities he should be visiting southern towns where complacent affluent oldies push their appalling saloon bar nonsense.

Or visit pb, where those views can be found in abundance.

It is a bit of both, which is why the Brexiteers are struggling to reconcile the welfare state protectionists and the free trading libertarians..

Not a pair of horses that couple well as a team to pull the coach of state, even when the coachmen stop their fisticufts.

FrancisUrquhart said:

AlastairMeeks said:

FPT I’m afraid John Harris is looking in completely the wrong places for the causes of Brexit. Instead of investigating left-behind communities he should be visiting southern towns where complacent affluent oldies push their appalling saloon bar nonsense.

Or visit pb, where those views can be found in abundance.

Part of your problem is you just don't understand places like Stoke or Walsall. What John Harris found running up to Brexit vote in Stoke is exactly what I was hearing, and it came as no surprise.

The referendum was not won in Stoke or Walsall (and I doubt many pbers have been in Walsall more recently than me). It was won in affluent southern towns and villages where appalling reactionaries who hate change decided that pandering to xenophobia was an acceptable way of indulging their own prejudices. Look around you: they’re all over pb.

AlastairMeeks said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

AlastairMeeks said:

FPT I’m afraid John Harris is looking in completely the wrong places for the causes of Brexit. Instead of investigating left-behind communities he should be visiting southern towns where complacent affluent oldies push their appalling saloon bar nonsense.

Or visit pb, where those views can be found in abundance.

Part of your problem is you just don't understand places like Stoke or Walsall. What John Harris found running up to Brexit vote in Stoke is exactly what I was hearing, and it came as no surprise.

The referendum was not won in Stoke or Walsall (and I doubt many pbers have been in Walsall more recently than me). It was won in affluent southern towns and villages where appalling reactionaries who hate change decided that pandering to xenophobia was an acceptable way of indulging their own prejudices. Look around you: they’re all over pb.

As it was a national referendum, all votes counted equally and places like Stoke and Walsall voted heavily to leave. The point is as well that a lot of the reasons aren't resolved by Brexit-ing or not. It is also why we see Trump, Corbyn, 5* etc.

To simple keep pointing to your favourite hobby horse misses the point that there is a significant proportion of the population whose concerns have not been addressed for a long long time.

Mr. Meeks, perhaps.

Xenos is the Greek, referring to being prejudiced against people/foreigners from different cities.

[Barbaros referred to foreigners who were non-Greek, the root of barbarian].

AlastairMeeks said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

AlastairMeeks said:

FPT I’m afraid John Harris is looking in completely the wrong places for the causes of Brexit. Instead of investigating left-behind communities he should be visiting southern towns where complacent affluent oldies push their appalling saloon bar nonsense.

Or visit pb, where those views can be found in abundance.

Part of your problem is you just don't understand places like Stoke or Walsall. What John Harris found running up to Brexit vote in Stoke is exactly what I was hearing, and it came as no surprise.

The referendum was not won in Stoke or Walsall (and I doubt many pbers have been in Walsall more recently than me). It was won in affluent southern towns and villages where appalling reactionaries who hate change decided that pandering to xenophobia was an acceptable way of indulging their own prejudices. Look around you: they’re all over pb.

I have been diverted from my work today by the personal problems of a very dear friend (marriages - pah!) so come on here for some light relief and see that it is the same old arguments interspersed with a bit of erotic spresms, whatever they may be. Have I been missing out? Or is this some sort of Baker-Street-style activity too exotic for my tender ears and eyes?

Oh well.

Anyway, I have spent most of the summer in a place most people don't even know exists let alone visit. It makes Stoke and Walsall seem positively metropolitan and is far nicer than both. It certainly is giving me a different perspective, though perhaps not the one you might imagine.

At any event, I am not at all keen on pandering to xenophobia, to put it mildly. But not all change is change for the better. Change is best done slowly and with consent. And above all I think a lot of people value their country, their citizenship and their culture, feel that the nation is the best unit in which democracy can be preserved and would like their politicians to place them first when devising public policy rather than seeing people from all over the world as merely interchangeable economic units - widgets with hearts, as it were.

And now I'd best go and do some work.

Dr. Foxy, such rhetoric helped delay proper investigation into the Rotherham scandal and similar occurrences elsewhere.

It may comfort those who still yearn for Remain to blame racism and stupidity for losing the voter, but it won't persuade many people they were wrong.

If the electorate are taught that voting is pointless because the political class can render their decision irrelevant, either through a departure in name only or by remaining in after the electorate decided otherwise, that will do more than anything else to help the far right.

And we ought not forget the far left is currently squatting on the front bench of the Labour Party.

HYUFD said:

Harris trails Biden, Warren and Sanders both nationally and in Iowa and New Hampshire.

Hickenhooper is likely to be too centrist for the Democrats who after Hillary lost to Trump in 2016 are unlikely to pick another centrist to take on Trump in 2020

Yes but if we exclude Biden, Warren and Sanders as being too old or otherwise unlikely runners, and make due allowance for name recognition, Harris and Hickenlooper are back in the frame.

Hickenlooper as POTUS, Harris as VPOTUS?

Richard_Nabavi said:

Foxy said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

AlastairMeeks said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

AlastairMeeks said:

FPT I’m afraid John Harris is looking in completely the wrong places for the causes of Brexit. Instead of investigating left-behind communities he should be visiting southern towns where complacent affluent oldies push their appalling saloon bar nonsense.

Or visit pb, where those views can be found in abundance.

Part of your problem is you just don't understand places like Stoke or Walsall. What John Harris found running up to Brexit vote in Stoke is exactly what I was hearing, and it came as no surprise.

The referendum was not won in Stoke or Walsall (and I doubt many pbers have been in Walsall more recently than me). It was won in affluent southern towns and villages where appalling reactionaries who hate change decided that pandering to xenophobia was an acceptable way of indulging their own prejudices. Look around you: they’re all over pb.

As it was a national referendum, all votes counted equally and places like Stoke and Walsall voted heavily to leave. The point is as well that a lot of the reasons aren't resolved by Brexit-ing or not. It is also why we see Trump, Corbyn, 5* etc.

To simple keep pointing to your favourite hobby horse misses the point that there is a significant proportion of the population whose concerns have not been addressed for a long long time.

The two are not unrelated. Blaming the peoples woes on foreigners and a disconnected metropolitan elite is a formula of success for wannabe demagogues whether in 1930s Germany, 1980s Iran, noughties Zimbabwe or post GFC Britain. It is a well worn tune, but still one to get people up and dancing.

It certainly seems to work with you, when Corbyn does it.

Yes it works for left wing demagogues too, but you are mistaken. I am not a Corbyn supporter, though neither am I a Corbyn hater.

Foxy said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

Foxy said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

AlastairMeeks said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

AlastairMeeks said:

FPT I’m afraid John Harris is looking in completely the wrong places for the causes of Brexit. Instead of investigating left-behind communities he should be visiting southern towns where complacent affluent oldies push their appalling saloon bar nonsense.

Or visit pb, where those views can be found in abundance.

Part of your problem is you just don't understand places like Stoke or Walsall. What John Harris found running up to Brexit vote in Stoke is exactly what I was hearing, and it came as no surprise.

The referendum was not won in Stoke or Walsall (and I doubt many pbers have been in Walsall more recently than me). It was won in affluent southern towns and villages where appalling reactionaries who hate change decided that pandering to xenophobia was an acceptable way of indulging their own prejudices. Look around you: they’re all over pb.

As it was a national referendum, all votes counted equally and places like Stoke and Walsall voted heavily to leave. The point is as well that a lot of the reasons aren't resolved by Brexit-ing or not. It is also why we see Trump, Corbyn, 5* etc.

To simple keep pointing to your favourite hobby horse misses the point that there is a significant proportion of the population whose concerns have not been addressed for a long long time.

The two are not unrelated. Blaming the peoples woes on foreigners and a disconnected metropolitan elite is a formula of success for wannabe demagogues whether in 1930s Germany, 1980s Iran, noughties Zimbabwe or post GFC Britain. It is a well worn tune, but still one to get people up and dancing.

It certainly seems to work with you, when Corbyn does it.

Yes it works for left wing demagogues too, but you are mistaken. I am not a Corbyn supporter, though neither am I a Corbyn hater.

Pleased to hear it, but you do seem cool with the idea of him becoming PM.

Richard_Nabavi said:

Foxy said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

AlastairMeeks said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

AlastairMeeks said:

FPT I’m afraid John Harris is looking in completely the wrong places for the causes of Brexit. Instead of investigating left-behind communities he should be visiting southern towns where complacent affluent oldies push their appalling saloon bar nonsense.

Or visit pb, where those views can be found in abundance.

Part of your problem is you just don't understand places like Stoke or Walsall. What John Harris found running up to Brexit vote in Stoke is exactly what I was hearing, and it came as no surprise.

The referendum was not won in Stoke or Walsall (and I doubt many pbers have been in Walsall more recently than me). It was won in affluent southern towns and villages where appalling reactionaries who hate change decided that pandering to xenophobia was an acceptable way of indulging their own prejudices. Look around you: they’re all over pb.

As it was a national referendum, all votes counted equally and places like Stoke and Walsall voted heavily to leave. The point is as well that a lot of the reasons aren't resolved by Brexit-ing or not. It is also why we see Trump, Corbyn, 5* etc.

To simple keep pointing to your favourite hobby horse misses the point that there is a significant proportion of the population whose concerns have not been addressed for a long long time.

The two are not unrelated. Blaming the peoples woes on foreigners and a disconnected metropolitan elite is a formula of success for wannabe demagogues whether in 1930s Germany, 1980s Iran, noughties Zimbabwe or post GFC Britain. It is a well worn tune, but still one to get people up and dancing.

It certainly seems to work with you, when Corbyn does it.

Corbyn is a master choreographer of the dance of division and hatred, whilst all the time kidding a certain type of audience that his dancers are kinder and gentler, when in fact they would happily kick the brains out of a granny if she dared to express doubt in the Leadership

Foxy said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

Foxy said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

AlastairMeeks said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

AlastairMeeks said:

FPT I’m afraid John Harris is looking in completely the wrong places for the causes of Brexit. Instead of investigating left-behind communities he should be visiting southern towns where complacent affluent oldies push their appalling saloon bar nonsense.

Or visit pb, where those views can be found in abundance.

Part of your problem is you just don't understand places like Stoke or Walsall. What John Harris found running up to Brexit vote in Stoke is exactly what I was hearing, and it came as no surprise.

The referendum was not won in Stoke or Walsall (and I doubt many pbers have been in Walsall more recently than me). It was won in affluent southern towns and villages where appalling reactionaries who hate change decided that pandering to xenophobia was an acceptable way of indulging their own prejudices. Look around you: they’re all over pb.

As it was a national referendum, all votes counted equally and places like Stoke and Walsall voted heavily to leave. The point is as well that a lot of the reasons aren't resolved by Brexit-ing or not. It is also why we see Trump, Corbyn, 5* etc.

To simple keep pointing to your favourite hobby horse misses the point that there is a significant proportion of the population whose concerns have not been addressed for a long long time.

The two are not unrelated. Blaming the peoples woes on foreigners and a disconnected metropolitan elite is a formula of success for wannabe demagogues whether in 1930s Germany, 1980s Iran, noughties Zimbabwe or post GFC Britain. It is a well worn tune, but still one to get people up and dancing.

It certainly seems to work with you, when Corbyn does it.

Yes it works for left wing demagogues too, but you are mistaken. I am not a Corbyn supporter, though neither am I a Corbyn hater.

I thought we'd atleast clocked up two converts for the next election, you and GIN

Foxy said:

DecrepitJohnL said:

HYUFD said:

Harris trails Biden, Warren and Sanders both nationally and in Iowa and New Hampshire.

Hickenhooper is likely to be too centrist for the Democrats who after Hillary lost to Trump in 2016 are unlikely to pick another centrist to take on Trump in 2020

Yes but if we exclude Biden, Warren and Sanders as being too old or otherwise unlikely runners, and make due allowance for name recognition, Harris and Hickenlooper are back in the frame.

I agree, and all the contenders score well on that vital criteria of having at least one clearly made up name.

Though I note Beto is a hispanic diminutive for Robert.

He's Irish-Mexican-American

CarlottaVance said:

Alanbrooke said:

AlastairMeeks said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

AlastairMeeks said:

FPT I’m afraid John Harris is looking in completely the wrong places for the causes of Brexit. Instead of investigating left-behind communities he should be visiting southern towns where complacent affluent oldies push their appalling saloon bar nonsense.

Or visit pb, where those views can be found in abundance.

Part of your problem is you just don't understand places like Stoke or Walsall. What John Harris found running up to Brexit vote in Stoke is exactly what I was hearing, and it came as no surprise.

The referendum was not won in Stoke or Walsall (and I doubt many pbers have been in Walsall more recently than me). It was won in affluent southern towns and villages where appalling reactionaries who hate change decided that pandering to xenophobia was an acceptable way of indulging their own prejudices. Look around you: they’re all over pb.

arent you moving to one of those appalling affluent villages ?

He'll blend right in.....

Are you suggesting he will quickly change his views to meet the current circumstances Carlotta? You find lots of weathervanes in villages but I am sure Mr Meeks isn't one of them.

OldKingCole said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

Foxy said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

Foxy said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

AlastairMeeks said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

AlastairMeeks said:

FPT I’m afraid John Harris is looking in completely the wrong places for the causes of Brexit. Instead of investigating left-behind communities he should be visiting southern towns where complacent affluent oldies push their appalling saloon bar nonsense.

Or visit pb, where those views can be found in abundance.

Part of your problem is you just don't understand places like Stoke or Walsall. What John Harris found running up to Brexit vote in Stoke is exactly what I was hearing, and it came as no surprise.

The referendum was not won in Stoke or Walsall (and I doubt many pbers have been in Walsall more recently than me). It was won in affluent southern towns and villages where appalling reactionaries who hate change decided that pandering to xenophobia was an acceptable way of indulging their own prejudices. Look around you: they’re all over pb.

As it was a national referendum, all votes counted equally and places like Stoke and Walsall voted heavily to leave. The point is as well that a lot of the reasons aren't resolved by Brexit-ing or not. It is also why we see Trump, Corbyn, 5* etc.

To simple keep pointing to your favourite hobby horse misses the point that there is a significant proportion of the population whose concerns have not been addressed for a long long time.

The two are not unrelated. Blaming the peoples woes on foreigners and a disconnected metropolitan elite is a formula of success for wannabe demagogues whether in 1930s Germany, 1980s Iran, noughties Zimbabwe or post GFC Britain. It is a well worn tune, but still one to get people up and dancing.

It certainly seems to work with you, when Corbyn does it.

Yes it works for left wing demagogues too, but you are mistaken. I am not a Corbyn supporter, though neither am I a Corbyn hater.

Pleased to hear it, but you do seem cool with the idea of him becoming PM.

While I’m not a Corbynite, when it comes to other likely PM's, and the policies thereof, the good Jeremy C seems a reasonable choice.

Vince doesn’t seem likely.

He is a proven anti-Semite. Right-thinking people should not want our great country lead by a racist.

OldKingCole said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

Foxy said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

Foxy said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

AlastairMeeks said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

AlastairMeeks said:

FPT I’m afraid John Harris is looking in completely the wrong places for the causes of Brexit. Instead of investigating left-behind communities he should be visiting southern towns where complacent affluent oldies push their appalling saloon bar nonsense.

Or visit pb, where those views can be found in abundance.

Part of your problem is you just don't understand places like Stoke or Walsall. What John Harris found running up to Brexit vote in Stoke is exactly what I was hearing, and it came as no surprise.

The referendum was not won in Stoke or Walsall (and I doubt many pbers have been in Walsall more recently than me). It was won in affluent southern towns and villages where appalling reactionaries who hate change decided that pandering to xenophobia was an acceptable way of indulging their own prejudices. Look around you: they’re all over pb.

As it was a national referendum, all votes counted equally and places like Stoke and Walsall voted heavily to leave. The point is as well that a lot of the reasons aren't resolved by Brexit-ing or not. It is also why we see Trump, Corbyn, 5* etc.

To simple keep pointing to your favourite hobby horse misses the point that there is a significant proportion of the population whose concerns have not been addressed for a long long time.

The two are not unrelated. Blaming the peoples woes on foreigners and a disconnected metropolitan elite is a formula of success for wannabe demagogues whether in 1930s Germany, 1980s Iran, noughties Zimbabwe or post GFC Britain. It is a well worn tune, but still one to get people up and dancing.

It certainly seems to work with you, when Corbyn does it.

Yes it works for left wing demagogues too, but you are mistaken. I am not a Corbyn supporter, though neither am I a Corbyn hater.

Pleased to hear it, but you do seem cool with the idea of him becoming PM.

While I’m not a Corbynite, when it comes to other likely PM's, and the policies thereof, the good Jeremy C seems a reasonable choice.

Vince doesn’t seem likely.

He's a reasonable choice, if you don't mind anti-Semitism, hatred of the West, support for IRA murders, support for Palestinian murderers, hatred of bankers, hatred of Tories, support for Putin, support for the Iranian regime, and economic illiteracy.

King Cole, I'm depressed to hear you so complacent about a Corbyn premiership given what's happening to Labour under his leadership.

Hopefully he won't win the next election, for the sake of the economy, free speech, the Jews, freedom of the press, the nuclear deterrent, defence, and anti-terrorism efforts.

The wreath-laying self-declared friend of Hamas is one of the few men in the Commons less worthy of the premiership than Boris.

And, on that glum note, I must be off. And remember to beware bucolic phantasms.

Keir Starmer clashed with Corbyn on Brexit to brink of resignation.

Shadow Brexit secretary said to have shown outrage at ‘ambush’ with customs union paper earlier this year.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/sep/18/keir-starmer-clashed-corbyn-brexit-brink-of-resignation-customs-union

Nigel_Foremain said:

CarlottaVance said:

Alanbrooke said:

AlastairMeeks said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

AlastairMeeks said:

FPT I’m afraid John Harris is looking in completely the wrong places for the causes of Brexit. Instead of investigating left-behind communities he should be visiting southern towns where complacent affluent oldies push their appalling saloon bar nonsense.

Or visit pb, where those views can be found in abundance.

Part of your problem is you just don't understand places like Stoke or Walsall. What John Harris found running up to Brexit vote in Stoke is exactly what I was hearing, and it came as no surprise.

The referendum was not won in Stoke or Walsall (and I doubt many pbers have been in Walsall more recently than me). It was won in affluent southern towns and villages where appalling reactionaries who hate change decided that pandering to xenophobia was an acceptable way of indulging their own prejudices. Look around you: they’re all over pb.

arent you moving to one of those appalling affluent villages ?

He'll blend right in.....

Are you suggesting he will quickly change his views to meet the current circumstances Carlotta? You find lots of weathervanes in villages but I am sure Mr Meeks isn't one of them.

Mr Meeks sees a lot of prejudice in others but is blind to his own.

"The wreath-laying self-declared friend of Hamas is one of the few men in the Commons less worthy of the premiership than Boris". Well said Mr Dancer. It is why the country must not be given a choice of PM that is between these two dangerous idiots

CarlottaVance said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

CarlottaVance said:

Alanbrooke said:

AlastairMeeks said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

AlastairMeeks said:

FPT I’m afraid John Harris is looking in completely the wrong places for the causes of Brexit. Instead of investigating left-behind communities he should be visiting southern towns where complacent affluent oldies push their appalling saloon bar nonsense.

Or visit pb, where those views can be found in abundance.

Part of your problem is you just don't understand places like Stoke or Walsall. What John Harris found running up to Brexit vote in Stoke is exactly what I was hearing, and it came as no surprise.

The referendum was not won in Stoke or Walsall (and I doubt many pbers have been in Walsall more recently than me). It was won in affluent southern towns and villages where appalling reactionaries who hate change decided that pandering to xenophobia was an acceptable way of indulging their own prejudices. Look around you: they’re all over pb.

arent you moving to one of those appalling affluent villages ?

He'll blend right in.....

Are you suggesting he will quickly change his views to meet the current circumstances Carlotta? You find lots of weathervanes in villages but I am sure Mr Meeks isn't one of them.

Mr Meeks sees a lot of prejudice in others but is blind to his own.

The crickets continue to chirp as I await all those Conservative posters continuously fretting about anti-Semitism in the Labour party finding the time to express the same anxiety about the Conservatives seeking to prop up Fidesz. Their pick-n-mix racism continues to be as selective as ever.

CarlottaVance said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

CarlottaVance said:

Alanbrooke said:

AlastairMeeks said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

AlastairMeeks said:

FPT I’m afraid John Harris is looking in completely the wrong places for the causes of Brexit. Instead of investigating left-behind communities he should be visiting southern towns where complacent affluent oldies push their appalling saloon bar nonsense.

Or visit pb, where those views can be found in abundance.

Part of your problem is you just don't understand places like Stoke or Walsall. What John Harris found running up to Brexit vote in Stoke is exactly what I was hearing, and it came as no surprise.

The referendum was not won in Stoke or Walsall (and I doubt many pbers have been in Walsall more recently than me). It was won in affluent southern towns and villages where appalling reactionaries who hate change decided that pandering to xenophobia was an acceptable way of indulging their own prejudices. Look around you: they’re all over pb.

arent you moving to one of those appalling affluent villages ?

He'll blend right in.....

Are you suggesting he will quickly change his views to meet the current circumstances Carlotta? You find lots of weathervanes in villages but I am sure Mr Meeks isn't one of them.

Mr Meeks sees a lot of prejudice in others but is blind to his own.

If you mean he is judgemental on those who are clearly motivated by xenophobia and bigoted nationalism then you have a strange distortion of the accepted meaning of the word prejudice. You are entering a kind of vortex of moral relativism where you might end up with a Nazi claiming that he needs to be protected from prejudice just because he shouts zieg heil and marches in a funny fashion.

Deleted - off out so no time for flame-throwing!

Danny565 said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

AlastairMeeks said:

CarlottaVance said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

CarlottaVance said:

Alanbrooke said:

AlastairMeeks said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

AlastairMeeks said:

FPT I’m afraid John Harris is looking in completely the wrong places for the causes of Brexit. Instead of investigating left-behind communities he should be visiting southern towns where complacent affluent oldies push their appalling saloon bar nonsense.

Or visit pb, where those views can be found in abundance.

Part of your problem is you just don't understand places like Stoke or Walsall. What John Harris found running up to Brexit vote in Stoke is exactly what I was hearing, and it came as no surprise.

The referendum was not won in Stoke or Walsall (and I doubt many pbers have been in Walsall more recently than me). It was won in affluent southern towns and villages where appalling reactionaries who hate change decided that pandering to xenophobia was an acceptable way of indulging their own prejudices. Look around you: they’re all over pb.

arent you moving to one of those appalling affluent villages ?

He'll blend right in.....

Are you suggesting he will quickly change his views to meet the current circumstances Carlotta? You find lots of weathervanes in villages but I am sure Mr Meeks isn't one of them.

Mr Meeks sees a lot of prejudice in others but is blind to his own.

The crickets continue to chirp as I await all those Conservative posters continuously fretting about anti-Semitism in the Labour party finding the time to express the same anxiety about the Conservatives seeking to prop up Fidesz. Their pick-n-mix racism continues to be as selective as ever.

OK, you keep making this point, which has rightly been ignored, but I'll bite. Which Conservatives are seeking to prop up Fidesz, exactly? I don't know of a single one.

Corbyn "sharing a platform" with people who say bad things about Jewish people is worse than the Tories "sharing a platform" with people who are doing bad things to Jewish people? It's a view.

Corbyn IS an anti-Semite based upon his own utterances. Whilst I don't think much of TMay there is no such evidence.

Speaking of Anita Hill:
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/18/opinion/anita-hill-brett-kavanaugh-clarence-thomas.html

I now think it is maybe 50/50 as to whether Kavanaugh’s confirmation, which looked almost certain very recently, will proceed.

Richard_Nabavi said:

OldKingCole said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

Foxy said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

Foxy said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

AlastairMeeks said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

AlastairMeeks said:

FPT I’m afraid John Harris is looking in completely the wrong places for the causes of Brexit. Instead of investigating left-behind communities he should be visiting southern towns where complacent affluent oldies push their appalling saloon bar nonsense.

Or visit pb, where those views can be found in abundance.

Part of your problem is you just don't understand places like Stoke or Walsall. What John Harris found running up to Brexit vote in Stoke is exactly what I was hearing, and it came as no surprise.

The referendum was not won in Stoke or Walsall (and I doubt many pbers have been in Walsall more recently than me). It was won in affluent southern towns and villages where appalling reactionaries who hate change decided that pandering to xenophobia was an acceptable way of indulging their own prejudices. Look around you: they’re all over pb.

As it was a national referendum, all votes counted equally and places like Stoke and Walsall voted heavily to leave. The point is as well that a lot of the reasons aren't resolved by Brexit-ing or not. It is also why we see Trump, Corbyn, 5* etc.

To simple keep pointing to your favourite hobby horse misses the point that there is a significant proportion of the population whose concerns have not been addressed for a long long time.

The two are not unrelated. Blaming the peoples woes on foreigners and a disconnected metropolitan elite is a formula of success for wannabe demagogues whether in 1930s Germany, 1980s Iran, noughties Zimbabwe or post GFC Britain. It is a well worn tune, but still one to get people up and dancing.

It certainly seems to work with you, when Corbyn does it.

Yes it works for left wing demagogues too, but you are mistaken. I am not a Corbyn supporter, though neither am I a Corbyn hater.

Pleased to hear it, but you do seem cool with the idea of him becoming PM.

While I’m not a Corbynite, when it comes to other likely PM's, and the policies thereof, the good Jeremy C seems a reasonable choice.

Vince doesn’t seem likely.

He's a reasonable choice, if you don't mind anti-Semitism, hatred of the West, support for IRA murders, support for Palestinian murderers, hatred of bankers, hatred of Tories, support for Putin, support for the Iranian regime, and economic illiteracy.

Yes, but he has many fine points too

Mr. Foxy, anti-Semites/racists don't have any fine points

Nigel_Foremain said:

CarlottaVance said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

CarlottaVance said:

Alanbrooke said:

AlastairMeeks said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

AlastairMeeks said:

FPT I’m afraid John Harris is looking in completely the wrong places for the causes of Brexit. Instead of investigating left-behind communities he should be visiting southern towns where complacent affluent oldies push their appalling saloon bar nonsense.

Or visit pb, where those views can be found in abundance.

Part of your problem is you just don't understand places like Stoke or Walsall. What John Harris found running up to Brexit vote in Stoke is exactly what I was hearing, and it came as no surprise.

The referendum was not won in Stoke or Walsall (and I doubt many pbers have been in Walsall more recently than me). It was won in affluent southern towns and villages where appalling reactionaries who hate change decided that pandering to xenophobia was an acceptable way of indulging their own prejudices. Look around you: they’re all over pb.

arent you moving to one of those appalling affluent villages ?

He'll blend right in.....

Are you suggesting he will quickly change his views to meet the current circumstances Carlotta? You find lots of weathervanes in villages but I am sure Mr Meeks isn't one of them.

Mr Meeks sees a lot of prejudice in others but is blind to his own.

If you mean he is judgemental on those who are clearly motivated by xenophobia and bigoted nationalism then you have a strange distortion of the accepted meaning of the word prejudice. You are entering a kind of vortex of moral relativism where you might end up with a Nazi claiming that he needs to be protected from prejudice just because he shouts zieg heil and marches in a funny fashion.

I see you, like Mr Meeks, seeks to make windows into mens’ souls.

I am with Queen Elizabeth on this one.

AlastairMeeks said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

AlastairMeeks said:

CarlottaVance said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

CarlottaVance said:

Alanbrooke said:

AlastairMeeks said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

AlastairMeeks said:

FPT I’m afraid John Harris is looking in completely the wrong places for the causes of Brexit. Instead of investigating left-behind communities he should be visiting southern towns where complacent affluent oldies push their appalling saloon bar nonsense.

Or visit pb, where those views can be found in abundance.

Part of your problem is you just don't understand places like Stoke or Walsall. What John Harris found running up to Brexit vote in Stoke is exactly what I was hearing, and it came as no surprise.

The referendum was not won in Stoke or Walsall (and I doubt many pbers have been in Walsall more recently than me). It was won in affluent southern towns and villages where appalling reactionaries who hate change decided that pandering to xenophobia was an acceptable way of indulging their own prejudices. Look around you: they’re all over pb.

arent you moving to one of those appalling affluent villages ?

He'll blend right in.....

Are you suggesting he will quickly change his views to meet the current circumstances Carlotta? You find lots of weathervanes in villages but I am sure Mr Meeks isn't one of them.

Mr Meeks sees a lot of prejudice in others but is blind to his own.

The crickets continue to chirp as I await all those Conservative posters continuously fretting about anti-Semitism in the Labour party finding the time to express the same anxiety about the Conservatives seeking to prop up Fidesz. Their pick-n-mix racism continues to be as selective as ever.

OK, you keep making this point, which has rightly been ignored, but I'll bite. Which Conservatives are seeking to prop up Fidesz, exactly? I don't know of a single one.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/sep/13/tory-meps-orban-hungary-britain?CMP=fb_gu

It seems some anti-Semitism is to be condemned and some is to be condoned. I look forward to the contortions that will be used to justify the difference in approach.

I refer to my previous comment on the fact that Corbyn wishes to be PM and is an anti-Semite. I am not aware of any racist tendencies for Mrs May (one of her few, but important, redeeming features).That is why there is clear difference. I am surprised you cannot see it.

Nigel_Foremain said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

AlastairMeeks said:

CarlottaVance said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

CarlottaVance said:

Alanbrooke said:

AlastairMeeks said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

AlastairMeeks said:

FPT I’m afraid John Harris is looking in completely the wrong places for the causes of Brexit. Instead of investigating left-behind communities he should be visiting southern towns where complacent affluent oldies push their appalling saloon bar nonsense.

Or visit pb, where those views can be found in abundance.

Part of your problem is you just don't understand places like Stoke or Walsall. What John Harris found running up to Brexit vote in Stoke is exactly what I was hearing, and it came as no surprise.

The referendum was not won in Stoke or Walsall (and I doubt many pbers have been in Walsall more recently than me). It was won in affluent southern towns and villages where appalling reactionaries who hate change decided that pandering to xenophobia was an acceptable way of indulging their own prejudices. Look around you: they’re all over pb.

arent you moving to one of those appalling affluent villages ?

He'll blend right in.....

Are you suggesting he will quickly change his views to meet the current circumstances Carlotta? You find lots of weathervanes in villages but I am sure Mr Meeks isn't one of them.

Mr Meeks sees a lot of prejudice in others but is blind to his own.

The crickets continue to chirp as I await all those Conservative posters continuously fretting about anti-Semitism in the Labour party finding the time to express the same anxiety about the Conservatives seeking to prop up Fidesz. Their pick-n-mix racism continues to be as selective as ever.

OK, you keep making this point, which has rightly been ignored, but I'll bite. Which Conservatives are seeking to prop up Fidesz, exactly? I don't know of a single one.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/sep/13/tory-meps-orban-hungary-britain?CMP=fb_gu

It seems some anti-Semitism is to be condemned and some is to be condoned. I look forward to the contortions that will be used to justify the difference in approach.

I am surprised you cannot see it.

Prejudice?

AlastairMeeks said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

AlastairMeeks said:

The crickets continue to chirp as I await all those Conservative posters continuously fretting about anti-Semitism in the Labour party finding the time to express the same anxiety about the Conservatives seeking to prop up Fidesz. Their pick-n-mix racism continues to be as selective as ever.

..oh and for the record Mr Meeks, I am a Conservative of the One Nation variety and I am extremely concerned about any Conservative politicians "propping up" questionable right wing zealots, including the current POTUS. However, the reason why we have a right to scrutinise Labour is that they have a leader who wishes to be PM and is on record saying that Jews aren't integrated into British society. I am not Jewish but I find that highly repugnant

I'm certainly not saying that Jeremy Corbyn should not be closely scrutinised on this subject. His acts have been appalling.

I'm also saying that Conservatives are entirely hypocritical about this subject, many of them having gleefully pandered to xenophobia themselves during the referendum campaign and many more having decided that xenophobia was an acceptable price to pay for Brexit. And now we see that the Conservatives don't actually care about anti-Semitism at all, because when it comes to concrete actions against an EU member state going down a dark path, they decided to prop it up.

On pb, several posters live-tweeted every twist and turn of Labour's summer of anti-Semitism. They have been conspicuously silent about the acts of the Conservative MEPs.

Perhaps they have been silent because there haven't been any anti-Semitic tweets or comments by Conservative MEPs? Just a thought.

Richard_Nabavi said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

AlastairMeeks said:

The crickets continue to chirp as I await all those Conservative posters continuously fretting about anti-Semitism in the Labour party finding the time to express the same anxiety about the Conservatives seeking to prop up Fidesz. Their pick-n-mix racism continues to be as selective as ever.

..oh and for the record Mr Meeks, I am a Conservative of the One Nation variety and I am extremely concerned about any Conservative politicians "propping up" questionable right wing zealots, including the current POTUS. However, the reason why we have a right to scrutinise Labour is that they have a leader who wishes to be PM and is on record saying that Jews aren't integrated into British society. I am not Jewish but I find that highly repugnant

I'm certainly not saying that Jeremy Corbyn should not be closely scrutinised on this subject. His acts have been appalling.

I'm also saying that Conservatives are entirely hypocritical about this subject, many of them having gleefully pandered to xenophobia themselves during the referendum campaign and many more having decided that xenophobia was an acceptable price to pay for Brexit. And now we see that the Conservatives don't actually care about anti-Semitism at all, because when it comes to concrete actions against an EU member state going down a dark path, they decided to prop it up.

On pb, several posters live-tweeted every twist and turn of Labour's summer of anti-Semitism. They have been conspicuously silent about the acts of the Conservative MEPs.

Perhaps they have been silent because there haven't been any anti-Semitic tweets or comments by Conservative MEPs? Just a thought.

No, just active support of a dangerous government.

AlastairMeeks said:

No, just active support of a dangerous government.

What's this 'active support' of which you speak? Been out there helping his campaigning and appearing on Hungarian TV saying how great he is?

If you looked at those who have won upset victories in Dem Primaries they have been people who have built a coalition of ethnic minorities and white left wing "progressives"(who would have supported Bernie over Hillary).

In that case sell White men, and buy black or Hispanic candidates who speak the language of the left rather then the Hillary type moderates.

A long shot would be someone like Andrew Gillum if he wins in Florida, who built a coalition of African Americans and young college voters on campus. I believe he has a better chance then Beto to 1) Actually win his race this 2018 2) build a broad coalition which is needed in a Dem primary.

AlastairMeeks said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

AlastairMeeks said:

No, just active support of a dangerous government.

What's this 'active support' of which you speak? Been out there helping his campaigning and appearing on Hungarian TV saying how great he is?

When the EU looks to take action to curb it, seeking to stop it from doing so.

Another day in Hungary, another day when freedoms are being curtailed:

Some of the Orbanite paranoia sounds indistinguishable from the more extreme Brexiteers.

http://rmx.news/content/germanization-europe

Merkel can only escape her uncomfortable domestic position by launching a sweeping occupation of Europe. In order to do so, she must eliminate Viktor Orbán and make it abundantly clear that she is the sole master of Europe.

AlastairMeeks said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

AlastairMeeks said:

The crickets continue to chirp as I await all those Conservative posters continuously fretting about anti-Semitism in the Labour party finding the time to express the same anxiety about the Conservatives seeking to prop up Fidesz. Their pick-n-mix racism continues to be as selective as ever.

..oh and for the record Mr Meeks, I am a Conservative of the One Nation variety and I am extremely concerned about any Conservative politicians "propping up" questionable right wing zealots, including the current POTUS. However, the reason why we have a right to scrutinise Labour is that they have a leader who wishes to be PM and is on record saying that Jews aren't integrated into British society. I am not Jewish but I find that highly repugnant

I'm certainly not saying that Jeremy Corbyn should not be closely scrutinised on this subject. His acts have been appalling.

I'm also saying that Conservatives are entirely hypocritical about this subject, many of them having gleefully pandered to xenophobia themselves during the referendum campaign and many more having decided that xenophobia was an acceptable price to pay for Brexit. And now we see that the Conservatives don't actually care about anti-Semitism at all, because when it comes to concrete actions against an EU member state going down a dark path, they decided to prop it up.

On pb, several posters live-tweeted every twist and turn of Labour's summer of anti-Semitism. They have been conspicuously silent about the acts of the Conservative MEPs.

That is not true. When the story first came out I (and others) condemned what those MEPs did. I do not think that the Tories should be allying themselves with Orban, who displays anti-semitism every bit as bad as Labour and whose party, Fidesz, is the only other party in Europe not to accept in full the IHRA definition.

Criticising hypocrisy is fine but in your rush to do so you should not - wrongly - criticise posters who have condemned both Labour and the MEPs over the same issue.

Now that BBC Parliament will not be broadcasting when the Parliaments and Assemblies are on holiday does that mean the end of classic Election nights?

Cyclefree said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

AlastairMeeks said:

The crickets continue to chirp as I await all those Conservative posters continuously fretting about anti-Semitism in the Labour party finding the time to express the same anxiety about the Conservatives seeking to prop up Fidesz. Their pick-n-mix racism continues to be as selective as ever.

..oh and for the record Mr Meeks, I am a Conservative of the One Nation variety and I am extremely concerned about any Conservative politicians "propping up" questionable right wing zealots, including the current POTUS. However, the reason why we have a right to scrutinise Labour is that they have a leader who wishes to be PM and is on record saying that Jews aren't integrated into British society. I am not Jewish but I find that highly repugnant

I'm certainly not saying that Jeremy Corbyn should not be closely scrutinised on this subject. His acts have been appalling.

I'm also saying that Conservatives are entirely hypocritical about this subject, many of them having gleefully pandered to xenophobia themselves during the referendum campaign and many more having decided that xenophobia was an acceptable price to pay for Brexit. And now we see that the Conservatives don't actually care about anti-Semitism at all, because when it comes to concrete actions against an EU member state going down a dark path, they decided to prop it up.

On pb, several posters live-tweeted every twist and turn of Labour's summer of anti-Semitism. They have been conspicuously silent about the acts of the Conservative MEPs.

That is not true. When the story first came out I (and others) condemned what those MEPs did. I do not think that the Tories should be allying themselves with Orban, who displays anti-semitism every bit as bad as Labour and whose party, Fidesz, is the only other party in Europe not to accept in full the IHRA definition.

Criticising hypocrisy is fine but in your rush to do so you should not - wrongly - criticise posters who have condemned both Labour and the MEPs over the same issue.

I do not include you in that list, and I should also make specific mention of @DavidL, who was equally aghast.

Others, however...

Nigelb said:

Cyclefree said:

AlastairMeeks said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

AlastairMeeks said:

FPT I’m afraid John Harris is looking in completely the wrong places for the causes of Brexit. Instead of investigating left-behind communities he should be visiting southern towns where complacent affluent oldies push their appalling saloon bar nonsense.

Or visit pb, where those views can be found in abundance.

Part of your problem is you just don't understand places like Stoke or Walsall. What John Harris found running up to Brexit vote in Stoke is exactly what I was hearing, and it came as no surprise.

The referendum was not won in Stoke or Walsall (and I doubt many pbers have been in Walsall more recently than me). It was won in affluent southern towns and villages where appalling reactionaries who hate change decided that pandering to xenophobia was an acceptable way of indulging their own prejudices. Look around you: they’re all over pb.

I have been diverted from my work today by the personal problems of a very dear friend (marriages - pah!) so come on here for some light relief and see that it is the same old arguments interspersed with a bit of erotic spresms, whatever they may be. Have I been missing out? Or is this some sort of Baker-Street-style activity too exotic for my tender ears and eyes?

Something I think we can agree you should avoid on your morning cappuccino ?

I am going to have to break this to you gently. But - whisper - I don't have a morning cappuccino. Or an afternoon one either. In fact, I have very little coffee ever.

I have just had a bit of chocolate to cheer myself up and, rather than feel good, I feel a bit sick. It is probably time for a big mug of proper Builders' Tea.

The erotic spresms will just have to wait.

AlastairMeeks said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

AlastairMeeks said:

No, just active support of a dangerous government.

What's this 'active support' of which you speak? Been out there helping his campaigning and appearing on Hungarian TV saying how great he is?

When the EU looks to take action to curb it, seeking to stop it from doing so.

Another day in Hungary, another day when freedoms are being curtailed:

https://twitter.com/alexandreafonso/status/1042043702783496192

It is all getting a bit 1930's out there, when even Farage is finding his successor too extreme:

https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1041762651687317504?s=19

https://mobile.twitter.com/georgeeaton/status/1042070378959577090

Richard_Nabavi said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

AlastairMeeks said:

When the EU looks to take action to curb it, seeking to stop it from doing so.

So, in your world, disagreeing with a particular measure against a country is tantamount to actively supporting the government of that country. By that logic, Ed Miliband and the Labour Party actively supported Assad, and the LibDems actively supported Saddam.

On this occasion, very definitely yes. Can you explain how it can be viewed differently? Michael Gove sure as heck couldn't on Sunday morning.

First of all, the chances of it having the desired effect is zero. Orban is hardly going to become a nice Cameroon PM just because the EU start waving sticks at him. Secondly it's quite likely to be actively counter-productive, giving Orban an excuse to blame foreigners even more than he does at the moment. Thirdly it potentially complicates Brexit, which is something which is most definitely not in the UK's interests at the moment. Fourthly it's a bit problematic interfering in the democratic (..ish) choices of a member state,

Now to be clear, I'm not saying that if I was an MEP I'd have voted against action, and as you know several Conservative MEPs didn't. The considerations I've listed have to be weighed against the understandable wish to condemn Orban. Coming down on one side or the other is not 'supporting' him.

Spoken like a true Corbynite supporter of Palestinian Solidarity.

AlastairMeeks said:

I don't see much of a weighing exercise there. The EU is one of the few organisations that has real external influence on the Hungarian government. Conservative MEPs actively chose to undermine attempts to use that.

No they didn't. They actively chose not to support one particular 'nuclear' option, unless you know better and can cite evidence that they've lobbied the EU not to try to use its influence in other ways.