politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Analysing the weekend’s extraordinary Twitter storm targeting
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"So far Mr. Watson remains and as I pointed out yesterday he was elected in a members’ ballot and has a personal mandate. There is very little that Corbynistas can do about it."
The Times - Len McCluskey is coming for me, says Tom Watson
What if Corbyn or Mcdonnell push for a change in the Labour Leadership/Deputy Leadership rules, making it easier to reduce MPs’ influence on the process?0 -
Daily Mail comments yesterday were very pro Boris and he did not even propose to ban the full veil as say France and Denmark have doneStark_Dawning said:
Clearly, in the wake of the 'Tommy Robinson' circus coming to town, Boris decided to base his relaunch around a controversial subject that would also win him the approbation of the hard Right. But it all looked clumsy and contrived, and the quips about letterboxes etc. just juvenile in that context. I think Boris has flunked it.CarlottaVance said:0 -
Yes, it's those bloody immigrants.Pulpstar said:
Of course immigration pushes up house prices. It's not the main factor, or the only factor - but it certainly creates an increase in demand..TheScreamingEagles said:
Not a catastrophically ill advised decade of dangerously low interest rates, a shortage of supply, caused by failed public policy, and people living far longer.
You're right it's just DA IMMIHGRUNTS0 -
Brandon Lewis? About as likely to be Tory leader as Gavin Williamson is.Scott_P said:0 -
UKIP has suspended three party members after protesters wearing Donald Trump masks and hats stormed a socialist bookshop.
Police were called to Bookmarks, in central London, on Saturday to claims a group of demonstrators were "intimidating" staff and customers.
https://news.sky.com/story/ukip-suspends-three-members-over-socialist-bookshop-incident-114642450 -
No, he's much more likely.The_Apocalypse said:
Brandon Lewis? About as likely to be Tory leader as Gavin Williamson is.Scott_P said:
Not very likely, mind, but much more likely.0 -
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I post to a wide range of sites from the New Statesman, Guardian etc on the left, to Telegraph and Fawkes on the right.Danny565 said:
I love how you talk about "alt-left loon sites" while repeatedly posting links to Guido Fawkes, without a hint of irony.FrancisUrquhart said:
You have clearly spent too much time on the alt-left conspiracy loon websites.bigjohnowls said:
My dumb brain cannot compute.Benpointer said:
Watson is NOT right-wing! Rees-Mogg is right-wing, Farage is right-wing, Bannon is right-wing; Watson is merely moderate left-of-centre.bigjohnowls said:
He is rightwing because he is rightwing.Anazina said:
Watson is rightwing because he thinks Labour have a problem with antisemitism among some of their members? I beg to differ.bigjohnowls said:Financial Times compared the contest between Flint and Watson to the hotly contested 1981 deputy leadership election between Denis Healey and the leftist Tony Benn.
Watson claimed to be the left wing candidate in reality no left wing candidates were on the ballot
He votes consistently with Progress. calls everyone to his left Trot Entryists, is funded by LFI, tried to keep Corbyn as leader off the ballot in 2016
Can you get it into your dumb brain BigJohn that calling Watson right wing reinforces the view that Labour has been taken over by crazed marxist infiltrators and puts-off voters like me, who would otherwise be willing to give Labour's manifesto ideas a try.
If you want to see those kind of policies enacted you need to attract votes from people well to the right of Watson.
Comparing Sqwawkbox to Fawkes is laughable. Sqwawkbox is pushes a load of dodgy conspiracy theories and Fake news, it is the left wing cross between Alex Jones and Breitbart.
Guido Fawkes is a right wing / anti-EU site that is read by most MPs, and whose posts regularly form the basis of stories in a range of established newspapers.
Until recently, I happily posted to things like Left Foot Forward or Labour List. Left leaning equivalents.0 -
Is Owen Jones starting on Neil, because Jones knows he's the interviewer that will tear shreds off Labour's main spokespeople and manifesto over costings in the run up to GE?Scott_P said:
Just wondering...0 -
Are you actually thick, or do you just like to give that impression ?grabcocque said:
Yes, it's those bloody immigrants.Pulpstar said:
Of course immigration pushes up house prices. It's not the main factor, or the only factor - but it certainly creates an increase in demand..TheScreamingEagles said:
Not a catastrophically ill advised decade of dangerously low interest rates, a shortage of supply, caused by failed public policy, and people living far longer.
You're right it's just DA IMMIHGRUNTS0 -
A well-put, convincing argument, I'm entirely swayed.bigjohnowls said:
My dumb brain cannot compute.Benpointer said:
Watson is NOT right-wing! Rees-Mogg is right-wing, Farage is right-wing, Bannon is right-wing; Watson is merely moderate left-of-centre.bigjohnowls said:
He is rightwing because he is rightwing.Anazina said:
Watson is rightwing because he thinks Labour have a problem with antisemitism among some of their members? I beg to differ.bigjohnowls said:Financial Times compared the contest between Flint and Watson to the hotly contested 1981 deputy leadership election between Denis Healey and the leftist Tony Benn.
Watson claimed to be the left wing candidate in reality no left wing candidates were on the ballot
He votes consistently with Progress. calls everyone to his left Trot Entryists, is funded by LFI, tried to keep Corbyn as leader off the ballot in 2016
Can you get it into your dumb brain BigJohn that calling Watson right wing reinforces the view that Labour has been taken over by crazed marxist infiltrators and puts-off voters like me, who would otherwise be willing to give Labour's manifesto ideas a try.
If you want to see those kind of policies enacted you need to attract votes from people well to the right of Watson.0 -
It just all seems so... scripted and obvious. Has one meeting with Bannon and suddenly the former Mayor of London Oh Oh Boris hates the Muslims now, does he?HYUFD said:
Daily Mail comments yesterday were very pro Boris and he did not even propose to ban the full veil as say France and Denmark have doneStark_Dawning said:
Clearly, in the wake of the 'Tommy Robinson' circus coming to town, Boris decided to base his relaunch around a controversial subject that would also win him the approbation of the hard Right. But it all looked clumsy and contrived, and the quips about letterboxes etc. just juvenile in that context. I think Boris has flunked it.CarlottaVance said:
OH WELL, I'M SURE IT'S COMPLETELY GENUINE AND NOT SHITTY GAMBIT FROM A NARCISSISTIC MORAL VACUUM WHO WILL SAY AND DO ANYTHING TO GET NOTICED.
Just imagine how thick you'd have to be to buy his Damascene conversion to Muslim hate.0 -
Left-wing anarchists have attacked Jacob Rees Mogg's Somerset house and his wife's Land Rover while his family are on holiday in New Yorklogical_song said:UKIP has suspended three party members after protesters wearing Donald Trump masks and hats stormed a socialist bookshop.
Police were called to Bookmarks, in central London, on Saturday to claims a group of demonstrators were "intimidating" staff and customers.
https://news.sky.com/story/ukip-suspends-three-members-over-socialist-bookshop-incident-11464245
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-england-somerset-450820530 -
When did he ever say he hated Muslims? He even said he had read the Koran and could find no requirement for the full veil within it.grabcocque said:
It just all seems so... scripted and obvious. Has one meeting with Bannon and suddenly the former Mayor of London Oh Oh Boris hates the Muslims now, does he?HYUFD said:
Daily Mail comments yesterday were very pro Boris and he did not even propose to ban the full veil as say France and Denmark have doneStark_Dawning said:
Clearly, in the wake of the 'Tommy Robinson' circus coming to town, Boris decided to base his relaunch around a controversial subject that would also win him the approbation of the hard Right. But it all looked clumsy and contrived, and the quips about letterboxes etc. just juvenile in that context. I think Boris has flunked it.CarlottaVance said:
OH WELL, I'M SURE IT'S COMPLETELY GENUINE AND NOT SHITTY GAMBIT FROM A NARCISSISTIC MORAL VACUUM WHO WILL SAY AND DO ANYTHING TO GET NOTICED.
Just imagine how thick you'd have to be to buy his Damascene conversion to Muslim hate.
57% of UK voters wanted to ban the burka in a 2016 poll including even 48% of Labour voters as well as a big majority of Tory and UKIP voters
https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/08/31/majority-public-backs-burka-ban/0 -
Do you mean comments in the Daily Mail itself or the the commenters to MailOnline?HYUFD said:
Daily Mail comments yesterday were very pro Boris and he did not even propose to ban the full veil as say France and Denmark have doneStark_Dawning said:
Clearly, in the wake of the 'Tommy Robinson' circus coming to town, Boris decided to base his relaunch around a controversial subject that would also win him the approbation of the hard Right. But it all looked clumsy and contrived, and the quips about letterboxes etc. just juvenile in that context. I think Boris has flunked it.CarlottaVance said:0 -
Johnson doesn't need any of this to win the mandate of the Tory members, unless, of course, the rumour that a load of kippers and asorted other radical right wing fringers have a co-ordinated scheme to join the Tories as members in order to vote in leadership.grabcocque said:
It just all seems so... scripted and obvious. Has one meeting with Bannon and suddenly the former Mayor of London Oh Oh Boris hates the Muslims now, does he?HYUFD said:
Daily Mail comments yesterday were very pro Boris and he did not even propose to ban the full veil as say France and Denmark have doneStark_Dawning said:
Clearly, in the wake of the 'Tommy Robinson' circus coming to town, Boris decided to base his relaunch around a controversial subject that would also win him the approbation of the hard Right. But it all looked clumsy and contrived, and the quips about letterboxes etc. just juvenile in that context. I think Boris has flunked it.CarlottaVance said:
OH WELL, I'M SURE IT'S COMPLETELY GENUINE AND NOT SHITTY GAMBIT FROM A NARCISSISTIC MORAL VACUUM WHO WILL SAY AND DO ANYTHING TO GET NOTICED.
Just imagine how thick you'd have to be to buy his Damascene conversion to Muslim hate.
Associates reporting 20-30 new members appearing overnight according to irrc Sunday Times.0 -
I think for Boris to get applause from the Daily Mail comments by having a go at Muslims is a bit 'shooting fish in a barrel'.HYUFD said:
Daily Mail comments yesterday were very pro Boris and he did not even propose to ban the full veil as say France and Denmark have doneStark_Dawning said:
Clearly, in the wake of the 'Tommy Robinson' circus coming to town, Boris decided to base his relaunch around a controversial subject that would also win him the approbation of the hard Right. But it all looked clumsy and contrived, and the quips about letterboxes etc. just juvenile in that context. I think Boris has flunked it.CarlottaVance said:0 -
On the Guido homepage, there's an item headlined "Carney's Project Fear 2.0", featuring a pic of Mark Carney with devil eyes...FrancisUrquhart said:
Comparing Sqwawkbox to Fawkes is laughable. Sqwawkbox is pushes a load of dodgy conspiracy theories and Fake news, it is the left wing cross between Alex Jones and Breitbart.0 -
Iceland only became independent of Denmark about a century back - and an island essentially built out of volcanoes, and sitting athwart a divergent plate boundary, can hardly be described as 'stable'....grabcocque said:
The modern conception of the nation state didn't come into existence until after WW1 anyway, so I think the argument is entirely meaningless.TheScreamingEagles said:I see Morris Dancer has been advising Penny Mordaunt.
https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/1026793851112091648
But Iceland's Parliament has sat nearly continuously since 930 AD so I think it has any constitutional body in Europe beaten by centuries.0 -
Below the lineBenpointer said:
Do you mean comments in the Daily Mail itself or the the commenters to MailOnline?HYUFD said:
Daily Mail comments yesterday were very pro Boris and he did not even propose to ban the full veil as say France and Denmark have doneStark_Dawning said:
Clearly, in the wake of the 'Tommy Robinson' circus coming to town, Boris decided to base his relaunch around a controversial subject that would also win him the approbation of the hard Right. But it all looked clumsy and contrived, and the quips about letterboxes etc. just juvenile in that context. I think Boris has flunked it.CarlottaVance said:0 -
How do you know it was left-wing anarchists? Have the culprits been identified?HYUFD said:
Left-wing anarchists have attacked Jacob Rees Mogg's Somerset house and his wife's Land Rover while his family are on holiday in New Yorklogical_song said:UKIP has suspended three party members after protesters wearing Donald Trump masks and hats stormed a socialist bookshop.
Police were called to Bookmarks, in central London, on Saturday to claims a group of demonstrators were "intimidating" staff and customers.
https://news.sky.com/story/ukip-suspends-three-members-over-socialist-bookshop-incident-11464245
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-england-somerset-450820530 -
That seems pretty harsh; you don't need Tory leadership ambitions to think that Boris is acting like a twat.Scott_P said:0 -
Can't you recognise a Dulux dog whistle ?HYUFD said:
When did he ever say he hated Muslims? ...grabcocque said:
It just all seems so... scripted and obvious. Has one meeting with Bannon and suddenly the former Mayor of London Oh Oh Boris hates the Muslims now, does he?HYUFD said:
Daily Mail comments yesterday were very pro Boris and he did not even propose to ban the full veil as say France and Denmark have doneStark_Dawning said:
Clearly, in the wake of the 'Tommy Robinson' circus coming to town, Boris decided to base his relaunch around a controversial subject that would also win him the approbation of the hard Right. But it all looked clumsy and contrived, and the quips about letterboxes etc. just juvenile in that context. I think Boris has flunked it.CarlottaVance said:
OH WELL, I'M SURE IT'S COMPLETELY GENUINE AND NOT SHITTY GAMBIT FROM A NARCISSISTIC MORAL VACUUM WHO WILL SAY AND DO ANYTHING TO GET NOTICED.
Just imagine how thick you'd have to be to buy his Damascene conversion to Muslim hate.0 -
Why would I want to slag you off. I do not like getting into angry dialogues and respect your wide reading. Also as I have a long affinity with Scots, not least being married to one for 54 years, and you are generally more to the left as a nationOchEye said:
Which Marx, Groucho, Chico, Harpo or & Spencer. Most people have never read Karl or even know of him, and that includes many in the Labour party. If you tried, and I have, to read Das Kapital, you would find it the greatest sophoric book around, as well as being a book of it's time - the 1880's rather than the 2000's. That so many regard Marxism as a slang or shorthand name calling for any one who doesn't suck to their own neo-liberalist views just indicates to me how poorly educated and thinking they are.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Watson right wing, really - the point is Corbyn and his cabal are hard left marxists so seen through his supporters anyone who does not bow to the cult is right wingbigjohnowls said:
He is rightwing because he is rightwing.Anazina said:
Watson is rightwing because he thinks Labour have a problem with antisemitism among some of their members? I beg to differ.bigjohnowls said:Financial Times compared the contest between Flint and Watson to the hotly contested 1981 deputy leadership election between Denis Healey and the leftist Tony Benn.
Watson claimed to be the left wing candidate in reality no left wing candidates were on the ballot
He votes consistently with Progress. calls everyone to his left Trot Entryists, is funded by LFI, tried to keep Corbyn as leader off the ballot in 2016
And before you try slagging me off, I should perhaps also admit to reading many different economic philosophers right, left and centre, in my time, as well as most of the different religious holy books, military and many others. To try and understand what others believe in, can actually help communicate rather than shouting at people till you think they understand what you want.....
However, that does not prevent me calling Corbyn a hard left communist as are his inner circle0 -
You're supposed to keep it quiet. If the 1922 get wind of a concerted attempt at entryism they will make damn sure Boris never gets put to the membership.rottenborough said:
Johnson doesn't need any of this to win the mandate of the Tory members, unless, of course, the rumour that a load of kippers and asorted other radical right wing fringers have a co-ordinated scheme to join the Tories as members in order to vote in leadership.
Associates reporting 20-30 new members appearing overnight according to irrc Sunday Times.
Softly softly abusee muslimy0 -
Utterly fraudulent wearing of the Dolphins by Mordaunt there. Disgusting.TheScreamingEagles said:I see Morris Dancer has been advising Penny Mordaunt.
https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/10267938511120916480 -
Off Topic
Renewable energy saves water and creates jobs.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/renewable-energy-saves-water-and-creates-jobs/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+ScientificAmerican-News+(Content:+News)0 -
Most oldest?TheScreamingEagles said:I see Morris Dancer has been advising Penny Mordaunt.
https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/1026793851112091648
MOST oldest?0 -
I didn't know you were a muslim?grabcocque said:
You're supposed to keep it quiet. If the 1922 get wind of a concerted attempt at entryism they will make damn sure Boris never gets put to the membership.rottenborough said:
Johnson doesn't need any of this to win the mandate of the Tory members, unless, of course, the rumour that a load of kippers and asorted other radical right wing fringers have a co-ordinated scheme to join the Tories as members in order to vote in leadership.
Associates reporting 20-30 new members appearing overnight according to irrc Sunday Times.
Softly softly abusee muslimy0 -
So says the Penniest Mordaunter.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Most oldest?TheScreamingEagles said:I see Morris Dancer has been advising Penny Mordaunt.
https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/1026793851112091648
MOST oldest?0 -
1922 will know if they read the Mail:grabcocque said:
You're supposed to keep it quiet. If the 1922 get wind of a concerted attempt at entryism they will make damn sure Boris never gets put to the membership.rottenborough said:
Johnson doesn't need any of this to win the mandate of the Tory members, unless, of course, the rumour that a load of kippers and asorted other radical right wing fringers have a co-ordinated scheme to join the Tories as members in order to vote in leadership.
Associates reporting 20-30 new members appearing overnight according to irrc Sunday Times.
Softly softly abusee muslimy
https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/10260254110655979520 -
Apparently neither did I..?Sunil_Prasannan said:
I didn't know you were a muslim?grabcocque said:
You're supposed to keep it quiet. If the 1922 get wind of a concerted attempt at entryism they will make damn sure Boris never gets put to the membership.rottenborough said:
Johnson doesn't need any of this to win the mandate of the Tory members, unless, of course, the rumour that a load of kippers and asorted other radical right wing fringers have a co-ordinated scheme to join the Tories as members in order to vote in leadership.
Associates reporting 20-30 new members appearing overnight according to irrc Sunday Times.
Softly softly abusee muslimy0 -
Why on earth would any Conservative want to be seen as the Remain leadership candidate? That's like wanting to be seen as the Everton candidate for next Liverpool manager.0
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The 'posh scum' graffiti gave the game away I thinkwilliamglenn said:
How do you know it was left-wing anarchists? Have the culprits been identified?HYUFD said:
Left-wing anarchists have attacked Jacob Rees Mogg's Somerset house and his wife's Land Rover while his family are on holiday in New Yorklogical_song said:UKIP has suspended three party members after protesters wearing Donald Trump masks and hats stormed a socialist bookshop.
Police were called to Bookmarks, in central London, on Saturday to claims a group of demonstrators were "intimidating" staff and customers.
https://news.sky.com/story/ukip-suspends-three-members-over-socialist-bookshop-incident-11464245
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-england-somerset-450820530 -
Sunil utters a cough that sounds suspiciously like EyjafjallajökulNigelb said:
Iceland only became independent of Denmark about a century back - and an island essentially built out of volcanoes, and sitting athwart a divergent plate boundary, can hardly be described as 'stable'....grabcocque said:
The modern conception of the nation state didn't come into existence until after WW1 anyway, so I think the argument is entirely meaningless.TheScreamingEagles said:I see Morris Dancer has been advising Penny Mordaunt.
https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/1026793851112091648
But Iceland's Parliament has sat nearly continuously since 930 AD so I think it has any constitutional body in Europe beaten by centuries.0 -
I think that's Guido's spin on it. The implication is that there are two separate primaries taking place within the Parliamentary Party.AlastairMeeks said:Why on earth would any Conservative want to be seen as the Remain leadership candidate? That's like wanting to be seen as the Everton candidate for next Liverpool manager.
In practice, candidates who can appeal to both sides, like Theresa May did, will be best placed.0 -
Are there are any right-wing anarchists? Genuine query.williamglenn said:
How do you know it was left-wing anarchists? Have the culprits been identified?HYUFD said:
Left-wing anarchists have attacked Jacob Rees Mogg's Somerset house and his wife's Land Rover while his family are on holiday in New Yorklogical_song said:UKIP has suspended three party members after protesters wearing Donald Trump masks and hats stormed a socialist bookshop.
Police were called to Bookmarks, in central London, on Saturday to claims a group of demonstrators were "intimidating" staff and customers.
https://news.sky.com/story/ukip-suspends-three-members-over-socialist-bookshop-incident-11464245
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-england-somerset-450820530 -
I think she looks alrightgrabcocque said:
So says the Penniest Mordaunter.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Most oldest?TheScreamingEagles said:I see Morris Dancer has been advising Penny Mordaunt.
https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/1026793851112091648
MOST oldest?
0 -
That @PritiPatel4PM account is a parody account. It may be correctly reporting Penny Mordaunt's words but proceed with caution.
That said, Penny Mordaunt, if correctly reported, is simply showing the English nationalism that lies behind Brexit.0 -
So, does that mean it's OK for UKIP members to intimidate staff and customers, because vandals attacked JRM's house and car?HYUFD said:
Left-wing anarchists have attacked Jacob Rees Mogg's Somerset house and his wife's Land Rover while his family are on holiday in New Yorklogical_song said:UKIP has suspended three party members after protesters wearing Donald Trump masks and hats stormed a socialist bookshop.
Police were called to Bookmarks, in central London, on Saturday to claims a group of demonstrators were "intimidating" staff and customers.
https://news.sky.com/story/ukip-suspends-three-members-over-socialist-bookshop-incident-11464245
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-england-somerset-450820530 -
The quote is accurate and comes from this 2016 article.AlastairMeeks said:That @PritiPatel4PM account is a parody account. It may be correctly reporting Penny Mordaunt's words but proceed with caution.
That said, Penny Mordaunt, if correctly reported, is simply showing the English nationalism that lies behind Brexit.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eureferendum/12173650/The-spirit-of-Dunkirk-will-see-us-thrive-outside-the-EU.html0 -
I'm sure you're right about the first half. I'm not sure you're right about the second half. The coming Conservative leadership election looks likely to have more in common with Labour 2015 than Labour 2010.Tissue_Price said:
I think that's Guido's spin on it. The implication is that there are two separate primaries taking place within the Parliamentary Party.AlastairMeeks said:Why on earth would any Conservative want to be seen as the Remain leadership candidate? That's like wanting to be seen as the Everton candidate for next Liverpool manager.
In practice, candidates who can appeal to both sides, like Theresa May did, will be best placed.0 -
Yeah, I mean Labour 2010 literally was brother stabbing brother in the backAlastairMeeks said:
I'm sure you're right about the first half. I'm not sure you're right about the second half. The coming Conservative leadership election looks likely to have more in common with Labour 2015 than Labour 2010.Tissue_Price said:
I think that's Guido's spin on it. The implication is that there are two separate primaries taking place within the Parliamentary Party.AlastairMeeks said:Why on earth would any Conservative want to be seen as the Remain leadership candidate? That's like wanting to be seen as the Everton candidate for next Liverpool manager.
In practice, candidates who can appeal to both sides, like Theresa May did, will be best placed. 0 -
Yes, they are often called Libertarians, but I rather liked the term Anarcho-Thatcherite used in this article:Sunil_Prasannan said:
Are there are any right-wing anarchists? Genuine query.williamglenn said:
How do you know it was left-wing anarchists? Have the culprits been identified?HYUFD said:
Left-wing anarchists have attacked Jacob Rees Mogg's Somerset house and his wife's Land Rover while his family are on holiday in New Yorklogical_song said:UKIP has suspended three party members after protesters wearing Donald Trump masks and hats stormed a socialist bookshop.
Police were called to Bookmarks, in central London, on Saturday to claims a group of demonstrators were "intimidating" staff and customers.
https://news.sky.com/story/ukip-suspends-three-members-over-socialist-bookshop-incident-11464245
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-england-somerset-45082053
https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1026775485748072449?s=19
Incidentally the Manx Tynwald claims to be the oldest continuous parliament in the world.0 -
Yes, the Tory equivalent of Labour's 'Keeper of the Blairite Flame'.AlastairMeeks said:Why on earth would any Conservative want to be seen as the Remain leadership candidate? That's like wanting to be seen as the Everton candidate for next Liverpool manager.
0 -
It’s my fault.grabcocque said:
Apparently neither did I..?Sunil_Prasannan said:
I didn't know you were a muslim?grabcocque said:
You're supposed to keep it quiet. If the 1922 get wind of a concerted attempt at entryism they will make damn sure Boris never gets put to the membership.rottenborough said:
Johnson doesn't need any of this to win the mandate of the Tory members, unless, of course, the rumour that a load of kippers and asorted other radical right wing fringers have a co-ordinated scheme to join the Tories as members in order to vote in leadership.
Associates reporting 20-30 new members appearing overnight according to irrc Sunday Times.
Softly softly abusee muslimy
All this hanging on PB means you get indoctrinated by good Muslim boy behaviour.0 -
Mr Cunningham now being cross examined by Gordon Cole, barrister for Ben Stokes. He maintains he hadn’t seen CCTV footage before but saw video of the later brawl. Cole points out that he said he HAD seen it in his police statement. He says he didn’t.0
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Most anarchists are right wing. But the left wing ones like Durrutti and Bakunin get a lot more attention.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Are there are any right-wing anarchists? Genuine query.williamglenn said:
How do you know it was left-wing anarchists? Have the culprits been identified?HYUFD said:
Left-wing anarchists have attacked Jacob Rees Mogg's Somerset house and his wife's Land Rover while his family are on holiday in New Yorklogical_song said:UKIP has suspended three party members after protesters wearing Donald Trump masks and hats stormed a socialist bookshop.
Police were called to Bookmarks, in central London, on Saturday to claims a group of demonstrators were "intimidating" staff and customers.
https://news.sky.com/story/ukip-suspends-three-members-over-socialist-bookshop-incident-11464245
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-england-somerset-450820530 -
She is a Portsmouth MP and a Royal Navy Reservist. Is it possible she was awarded them in some "honorary submariner" capacity?Dura_Ace said:
Utterly fraudulent wearing of the Dolphins by Mordaunt there. Disgusting.TheScreamingEagles said:I see Morris Dancer has been advising Penny Mordaunt.
https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/10267938511120916480 -
Right wingers tend to want 'less government', so on the way to being anarchist?Recidivist said:
Most anarchists are right wing. But the left wing ones like Durrutti and Bakunin get a lot more attention.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Are there are any right-wing anarchists? Genuine query.williamglenn said:
How do you know it was left-wing anarchists? Have the culprits been identified?HYUFD said:
Left-wing anarchists have attacked Jacob Rees Mogg's Somerset house and his wife's Land Rover while his family are on holiday in New Yorklogical_song said:UKIP has suspended three party members after protesters wearing Donald Trump masks and hats stormed a socialist bookshop.
Police were called to Bookmarks, in central London, on Saturday to claims a group of demonstrators were "intimidating" staff and customers.
https://news.sky.com/story/ukip-suspends-three-members-over-socialist-bookshop-incident-11464245
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-england-somerset-450820530 -
The first is irrelevant and shouldn’t be a target of policy. The second is subjective and often wrong. The probability of the U.K. defaulting has not changed in my view as a result of the referendum resultPeter_the_Punter said:
Well you could start with the exchange rate and our credit rating, two of the first casualties of the referendum result.ralphmalph said:
What benefits are the people expecting to continue?williamglenn said:
I think the reason Brexit is proving so difficult is partly that membership is not at odds with voters' wishes - people still expect the benefits of being part of an organisation like the EU to continue. If there were a genuine consensus that we wanted to leave there would be no problem. In your hypothetical forced choice I would choose democracy, but that doesn't impose obligations on any other states to make your democratic choice a palatable one.Cyclefree said:
You are ignoring my point. How do you reconcile membership of an organisation whose requirements are at odds with voters’s wishes? In a forced choice, which is more important: EU membership or democracy?williamglenn said:
Imagine if Germany had decided it was fed up with not getting its own way in the EU and voted to leave, then adopted a negotiating position of asking for the bits of EU membership that it liked without the obligations. The rest of Europe would have a duty to say, "I'm sorry, but you still can't have everything your own way, even if you have voted for it."Cyclefree said:
real concerns to UK voters which are not being and will continue not to be addressed. Staying in an organisation faute de mieux is not really the basis for a successful policy. And it ignores the strains caused to our society and democracy by ignoring voters’ concerns.Scott_P said:
Quite...Gardenwalker said:Sure. Apart from the fact it was predicted.
Those who want Brexit to be stopped or reversed or want to campaign to rejoin the EU need I think to address these points.
The network of interdependence we have within the EU acts as an additional layer of constitutional checks and balances in the relations between European states, just as it was designed to be.
I have to go out now. But will check in later. So don’t take my non-reply as rudeness.
The challenge really is how to translate the desire for change at a European level into effective action in a democratic way. One state trying to blackmail the others isn't it.0 -
I'd give the government two cheers for its housing policy. Outside London and some hotspots in the South East, prices haven't moved by much over the past ten years.Pulpstar said:
Are you actually thick, or do you just like to give that impression ?grabcocque said:
Yes, it's those bloody immigrants.Pulpstar said:
Of course immigration pushes up house prices. It's not the main factor, or the only factor - but it certainly creates an increase in demand..TheScreamingEagles said:
Not a catastrophically ill advised decade of dangerously low interest rates, a shortage of supply, caused by failed public policy, and people living far longer.
You're right it's just DA IMMIHGRUNTS
Making buy to let less attractive, and whacking up stamp duty on high value properties have helped prevent house price inflation; at the same time, private housebuilding is approaching near record levels, assisted by more liberal planning laws.
A long period of stagnant house prices, combined with increasing wages, is what this country needs.
0 -
The term always used to be anarcho-capitalism - I expect tacking the word ‘Thatcher’ on there ensures young Guardianistas know it is a BAD thing - though in this case it actually is. In fact if all these simplistic solutions could be labelled Thatcherite young innocents could be guided back to liberalismFoxy said:
Yes, they are often called Libertarians, but I rather liked the term Anarcho-Thatcherite used in this article:Sunil_Prasannan said:
Are there are any right-wing anarchists? Genuine query.williamglenn said:
How do you know it was left-wing anarchists? Have the culprits been identified?HYUFD said:
Left-wing anarchists have attacked Jacob Rees Mogg's Somerset house and his wife's Land Rover while his family are on holiday in New Yorklogical_song said:UKIP has suspended three party members after protesters wearing Donald Trump masks and hats stormed a socialist bookshop.
Police were called to Bookmarks, in central London, on Saturday to claims a group of demonstrators were "intimidating" staff and customers.
https://news.sky.com/story/ukip-suspends-three-members-over-socialist-bookshop-incident-11464245
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-england-somerset-45082053
https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1026775485748072449?s=19
Incidentally the Manx Tynwald claims to be the oldest continuous parliament in the world.
Corbo-Thatcherite, Trotskothatcherite, Marxist-Thatcherite etc - idiotic right wing authoritarians need to be labelled the opposite Corbofascist, Farageocorbynite etc0 -
Where are you getting updates from ?TheScreamingEagles said:Mr Cunningham now being cross examined by Gordon Cole, barrister for Ben Stokes. He maintains he hadn’t seen CCTV footage before but saw video of the later brawl. Cole points out that he said he HAD seen it in his police statement. He says he didn’t.
https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/cricket/ben-stokes-trial-live-updates-bristol-affray-gay-attack-england-cricket-latest-india-a8480681.html reckons they're in for lunch and the prosecutor is still going...0 -
London has its own problems of course. From the green belt to nimby intransigence and Russian oligarchs.Sean_F said:
I'd give the government two cheers for its housing policy. Outside London and some hotspots in the South East, prices haven't moved by much over the past ten years.0 -
Both. Also when in cross the Prosecution can be a lot more imaginative with their questioning and suggestions than they can be in chief where they are really quite restricted. This allows them to plant a lot of ideas in the Jury's minds that they can advert to in their closing speech. As a rule of thumb in my experience calling the accused is a last throw of the dice when you are convinced you are going down anyway and don't want him complaining he never got a chance to "explain".NickPalmer said:
Is that because the defendants tend to be unconvincing in manner, or just because they are then exposed to detailed questioning that they could otherwise avoid?DavidL said:
Absolutely not my experience over the last 30 years. I don't do much crime these days but when I did prosecute the low point of the Crown case was always when it closed. Defendants giving evidence nearly always improves things for the Crown. That is why so many accused choose not to give evidence.Anazina said:
This is always the way when the prosecution goes first. The tone will change entirely once the defence gets in on the act. Shades of the Nigella case.DavidL said:In other news this trial seems to be proceeding sub optimally: https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/ben-stokes-trial-live-latest-1865220
0 -
HerePulpstar said:
Where are you getting updates from ?TheScreamingEagles said:Mr Cunningham now being cross examined by Gordon Cole, barrister for Ben Stokes. He maintains he hadn’t seen CCTV footage before but saw video of the later brawl. Cole points out that he said he HAD seen it in his police statement. He says he didn’t.
https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/cricket/ben-stokes-trial-live-updates-bristol-affray-gay-attack-england-cricket-latest-india-a8480681.html reckons they're in for lunch and the prosecutor is still going...
https://news.sky.com/story/live-england-cricketer-ben-stokes-back-in-court-for-affray-outside-bristol-club-114640790 -
Is it catching then? I do notice that I no longer fancy bacon...TheScreamingEagles said:
It’s my fault.grabcocque said:
Apparently neither did I..?Sunil_Prasannan said:
I didn't know you were a muslim?grabcocque said:
You're supposed to keep it quiet. If the 1922 get wind of a concerted attempt at entryism they will make damn sure Boris never gets put to the membership.rottenborough said:
Johnson doesn't need any of this to win the mandate of the Tory members, unless, of course, the rumour that a load of kippers and asorted other radical right wing fringers have a co-ordinated scheme to join the Tories as members in order to vote in leadership.
Associates reporting 20-30 new members appearing overnight according to irrc Sunday Times.
Softly softly abusee muslimy
All this hanging on PB means you get indoctrinated by good Muslim boy behaviour.0 -
A few weeks ago I read on twitter from a Tommy Robinson supporter thatFoxy said:
Is it catching then? I do notice that I no longer fancy bacon...TheScreamingEagles said:
It’s my fault.grabcocque said:
Apparently neither did I..?Sunil_Prasannan said:
I didn't know you were a muslim?grabcocque said:
You're supposed to keep it quiet. If the 1922 get wind of a concerted attempt at entryism they will make damn sure Boris never gets put to the membership.rottenborough said:
Johnson doesn't need any of this to win the mandate of the Tory members, unless, of course, the rumour that a load of kippers and asorted other radical right wing fringers have a co-ordinated scheme to join the Tories as members in order to vote in leadership.
Associates reporting 20-30 new members appearing overnight according to irrc Sunday Times.
Softly softly abusee muslimy
All this hanging on PB means you get indoctrinated by good Muslim boy behaviour.
1) Muslims control the media
2) You can catch Islam by standing close to Muslims or reading Muslim propaganda.
Perhaps my jihad war on Hawaiian pizzas has had an impact on the attractiveness of eating pig food.0 -
"Europe Elects
@EuropeElects
UK, YouGov poll:
CON-ECR: 38%
LAB-S&D: 38%
LDEM-ALDE: 10%
UKIP-EFDD: 6%
SNP/PCY-G/EFA: 4%
Greens-G/EFA: 3%
Field work: 30/07/18 – 31/07/18
Sample size: 1,718"0 -
*insert joke about 'going down' here*MarqueeMark said:
She is a Portsmouth MP and a Royal Navy Reservist. Is it possible she was awarded them in some "honorary submariner" capacity?Dura_Ace said:
Utterly fraudulent wearing of the Dolphins by Mordaunt there. Disgusting.TheScreamingEagles said:I see Morris Dancer has been advising Penny Mordaunt.
https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/1026793851112091648
Obviously, it's beneath me to do so.0 -
That just means you're Ed Miliband....Foxy said:
Is it catching then? I do notice that I no longer fancy bacon...TheScreamingEagles said:
It’s my fault.grabcocque said:
Apparently neither did I..?Sunil_Prasannan said:
I didn't know you were a muslim?grabcocque said:
You're supposed to keep it quiet. If the 1922 get wind of a concerted attempt at entryism they will make damn sure Boris never gets put to the membership.rottenborough said:
Johnson doesn't need any of this to win the mandate of the Tory members, unless, of course, the rumour that a load of kippers and asorted other radical right wing fringers have a co-ordinated scheme to join the Tories as members in order to vote in leadership.
Associates reporting 20-30 new members appearing overnight according to irrc Sunday Times.
Softly softly abusee muslimy
All this hanging on PB means you get indoctrinated by good Muslim boy behaviour.0 -
That's precisely what many in "the greatest generation" did. They sacrificed their lives to ensure we could be a free democracy.matt said:
Can we sacrifice your job and life first? You seem quite keen to do that for others.Philip_Thompson said:
Immediate catastrophes happen regularly. Even the worst case scenarios aren't as bad as 2007 and the evidence is that the risks have been overstated.Scott_P said:
"let them eat sovereignty"Philip_Thompson said:If the politicians we have fuck it up then they will face the ballot box and can be removed.
That's democracy.
It doesn't help the immediate catastrophe.
Would you sacrifice democracy to avoid a single one off recession? I would not.
I'm not prepared to throw away their sacrifice on the altar of potentially avoiding a one off recession.
So yes. Democracy and freedom are worth the loss of life. A recession is not.0 -
What's long, hard, and full of se....Anorak said:
*insert joke about 'going down' here*MarqueeMark said:
She is a Portsmouth MP and a Royal Navy Reservist. Is it possible she was awarded them in some "honorary submariner" capacity?Dura_Ace said:
Utterly fraudulent wearing of the Dolphins by Mordaunt there. Disgusting.TheScreamingEagles said:I see Morris Dancer has been advising Penny Mordaunt.
https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/1026793851112091648
Obviously, it's beneath me to do so.0 -
No such thing. You get your Dolphins at some point in your first operational cruise when you've demonstrated competence in key submariner skills like nuclear propulsion engineering and breathlessly silent wanking. She has not earned them and should have more respect for those that have.MarqueeMark said:
She is a Portsmouth MP and a Royal Navy Reservist. Is it possible she was awarded them in some "honorary submariner" capacity?Dura_Ace said:
Utterly fraudulent wearing of the Dolphins by Mordaunt there. Disgusting.TheScreamingEagles said:I see Morris Dancer has been advising Penny Mordaunt.
https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/1026793851112091648
Even if she were qualified it's against regulations to wear them on civvies. I don't wear my albatross wings on my pajamas.0 -
House prices went crazy between 1996 and 2007, rising by 320%. Anyone who bought between say, 1992 and 2000, was guaranteed a huge profit. But, it had many bad results. Housing just rose out of reach for first time buyers, so after 2003, rates of home ownership began falling (they've stabilised since 2014). People began borrowing heavily against their homes to fuel current spending, so the trade deficit ballooned. Rising prices created an illusion of prosperity, even as real household incomes stagnated after 2003.grabcocque said:
London has its own problems of course. From the green belt to nimby intransigence and Russian oligarchs.Sean_F said:
I'd give the government two cheers for its housing policy. Outside London and some hotspots in the South East, prices haven't moved by much over the past ten years.
Since 2007, house prices have risen by another 20%, but that masks an increase of 70% in London and parts of the South East, and close to zero in most of the rest of the country.0 -
-
Up periscope!Anorak said:
*insert joke about 'going down' here*MarqueeMark said:
She is a Portsmouth MP and a Royal Navy Reservist. Is it possible she was awarded them in some "honorary submariner" capacity?Dura_Ace said:
Utterly fraudulent wearing of the Dolphins by Mordaunt there. Disgusting.TheScreamingEagles said:I see Morris Dancer has been advising Penny Mordaunt.
https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/1026793851112091648
Obviously, it's beneath me to do so.
0 -
Perhaps he's in court, doing the cross-examinations.Pulpstar said:
Where are you getting updates from ?TheScreamingEagles said:Mr Cunningham now being cross examined by Gordon Cole, barrister for Ben Stokes. He maintains he hadn’t seen CCTV footage before but saw video of the later brawl. Cole points out that he said he HAD seen it in his police statement. He says he didn’t.
https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/cricket/ben-stokes-trial-live-updates-bristol-affray-gay-attack-england-cricket-latest-india-a8480681.html reckons they're in for lunch and the prosecutor is still going...0 -
Mental and utterly unspoofable.Philip_Thompson said:That's precisely what many in "the greatest generation" did. They sacrificed their lives to ensure we could be a free democracy.
I'm not prepared to throw away their sacrifice on the altar of potentially avoiding a one off recession.
So yes. Democracy and freedom are worth the loss of life. A recession is not.0 -
Muff dive, dive, dive!MarqueeMark said:
Up periscope!Anorak said:
*insert joke about 'going down' here*MarqueeMark said:
She is a Portsmouth MP and a Royal Navy Reservist. Is it possible she was awarded them in some "honorary submariner" capacity?Dura_Ace said:
Utterly fraudulent wearing of the Dolphins by Mordaunt there. Disgusting.TheScreamingEagles said:I see Morris Dancer has been advising Penny Mordaunt.
https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/1026793851112091648
Obviously, it's beneath me to do so.0 -
Major one we areTheScreamingEagles said:I see Morris Dancer has been advising Penny Mordaunt.
https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/1026793851112091648
France - are we on the 5th or 6th Republic now?
Germany - creation, partition, reunification
Italy - creation
Spain - Facist dictatorship
Benelux - not comparable but don’t forget they were briefly one country (as well as being conquered). Switzerland and Portugal too small.
Sweden probably the strongest candidate but only just - they had a European Empire that they lost in the 1640-1680 period IIRC and they are only 1/8 our size
Who do you have in mind?0 -
Hitler’s Germany was a democracy too.Anorak said:
Mental and utterly unspoofable.Philip_Thompson said:That's precisely what many in "the greatest generation" did. They sacrificed their lives to ensure we could be a free democracy.
I'm not prepared to throw away their sacrifice on the altar of potentially avoiding a one off recession.
So yes. Democracy and freedom are worth the loss of life. A recession is not.
Just saying.0 -
No it wasn't. Not even officially.TheScreamingEagles said:
Hitler’s Germany was a democracy too.Anorak said:
Mental and utterly unspoofable.Philip_Thompson said:That's precisely what many in "the greatest generation" did. They sacrificed their lives to ensure we could be a free democracy.
I'm not prepared to throw away their sacrifice on the altar of potentially avoiding a one off recession.
So yes. Democracy and freedom are worth the loss of life. A recession is not.
Just saying.0 -
I see Donald Trump is threatening EU business who trade with Iran.
Trump tweet "Anyone doing business with Iran will NOT be doing business with the United States".
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45098031
The EU is introducing a blocking statute to protect European businesses but many European are sufficiently cowed by Trump's threat to stop trading with Iran.
I would like to see the EU go further and provide a mechanism for businesses to reclaim damages from the US (from the European assets of US companies). "If the US illegally damages the interests of EU businesses, compensation will be extracted from US assets." The EU is as powerful an economic unit as the US and should not be bullied. The UK alone - well that's another matter.0 -
No thanks!williamglenn said:
What we need is a negotiator of Charles' calibre to step in and get us a deal *better than BATNA* to save jobs and keep things going as they are.TOPPING said:
It doesn't have to be that dramatic.Scott_P said:
We are clearly not going to agree on this, but the depth of the catastrophe is the issue.TGOHF said:So temporary then.
You can't typically come back from a temporary case of death. A future promise of oxygen is worthless when you have already suffocated. A ladder is no help when you are lying crushed on the rocks, etc...
You think there will be no serious immediate and lasting damage, in the hope of something in the future.
I think the damage of no deal, would be immediate and catastrophic.
I hope it doesn't happen
Leavers simply seem not to understand the time value of money, or the theory of discounting and NPV. The likely value destruction of Brexit is tragic.
Doesn't matter too much of course if you are a well off Leaver, that said.0 -
We seem to have turned into Carry On Political Betting......Anorak said:
Muff dive, dive, dive!MarqueeMark said:
Up periscope!Anorak said:
*insert joke about 'going down' here*MarqueeMark said:
She is a Portsmouth MP and a Royal Navy Reservist. Is it possible she was awarded them in some "honorary submariner" capacity?Dura_Ace said:
Utterly fraudulent wearing of the Dolphins by Mordaunt there. Disgusting.TheScreamingEagles said:I see Morris Dancer has been advising Penny Mordaunt.
https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/1026793851112091648
Obviously, it's beneath me to do so.0 -
Are you sure about that?TheScreamingEagles said:
Hitler’s Germany was a democracy too.Anorak said:
Mental and utterly unspoofable.Philip_Thompson said:That's precisely what many in "the greatest generation" did. They sacrificed their lives to ensure we could be a free democracy.
I'm not prepared to throw away their sacrifice on the altar of potentially avoiding a one off recession.
So yes. Democracy and freedom are worth the loss of life. A recession is not.
Just saying.
0 -
Dunno about you, but I don't consider imprisoning your opponents generally in keeping with the spirit of fair play.TheScreamingEagles said:
Hitler’s Germany was a democracy too.Anorak said:
Mental and utterly unspoofable.Philip_Thompson said:That's precisely what many in "the greatest generation" did. They sacrificed their lives to ensure we could be a free democracy.
I'm not prepared to throw away their sacrifice on the altar of potentially avoiding a one off recession.
So yes. Democracy and freedom are worth the loss of life. A recession is not.
Just saying.0 -
But you promised that you and your family would see Brexit voters right. It's your duty!Charles said:
No thanks!williamglenn said:
What we need is a negotiator of Charles' calibre to step in and get us a deal *better than BATNA* to save jobs and keep things going as they are.TOPPING said:
It doesn't have to be that dramatic.Scott_P said:
We are clearly not going to agree on this, but the depth of the catastrophe is the issue.TGOHF said:So temporary then.
You can't typically come back from a temporary case of death. A future promise of oxygen is worthless when you have already suffocated. A ladder is no help when you are lying crushed on the rocks, etc...
You think there will be no serious immediate and lasting damage, in the hope of something in the future.
I think the damage of no deal, would be immediate and catastrophic.
I hope it doesn't happen
Leavers simply seem not to understand the time value of money, or the theory of discounting and NPV. The likely value destruction of Brexit is tragic.
Doesn't matter too much of course if you are a well off Leaver, that said. 0 -
Don’t the Manx dispute that?grabcocque said:
The modern conception of the nation state didn't come into existence until after WW1 anyway, so I think the argument is entirely meaningless.TheScreamingEagles said:I see Morris Dancer has been advising Penny Mordaunt.
https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/1026793851112091648
But Iceland's Parliament has sat nearly continuously since 930 AD so I think it has any constitutional body in Europe beaten by centuries.0 -
Completely wrong. Even if I considered the Reconquista or the Breton War not to be the founding of 'nation states,' how do you account for the Risorgimento or the unification of Germany in the 1860s if nation states only emerged after WW1? Or the Irish Home Rule movement from the 1830s?grabcocque said:
The modern conception of the nation state didn't come into existence until after WW1 anyway, so I think the argument is entirely meaningless.TheScreamingEagles said:I see Morris Dancer has been advising Penny Mordaunt.
https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/1026793851112091648
But Iceland's Parliament has sat nearly continuously since 930 AD so I think it has any constitutional body in Europe beaten by centuries.0 -
He won an election in 1933.Sean_F said:
Are you sure about that?TheScreamingEagles said:
Hitler’s Germany was a democracy too.Anorak said:
Mental and utterly unspoofable.Philip_Thompson said:That's precisely what many in "the greatest generation" did. They sacrificed their lives to ensure we could be a free democracy.
I'm not prepared to throw away their sacrifice on the altar of potentially avoiding a one off recession.
So yes. Democracy and freedom are worth the loss of life. A recession is not.
Just saying.0 -
Very much a case of one man, one vote, once.TheScreamingEagles said:
He won an election in 1933.Sean_F said:
Are you sure about that?TheScreamingEagles said:
Hitler’s Germany was a democracy too.Anorak said:
Mental and utterly unspoofable.Philip_Thompson said:That's precisely what many in "the greatest generation" did. They sacrificed their lives to ensure we could be a free democracy.
I'm not prepared to throw away their sacrifice on the altar of potentially avoiding a one off recession.
So yes. Democracy and freedom are worth the loss of life. A recession is not.
Just saying.0 -
I vaguely remember from reading Karen Armstrong that the burqa is *not* religious but *political*HYUFD said:
When did he ever say he hated Muslims? He even said he had read the Koran and could find no requirement for the full veil within it.grabcocque said:
It just all seems so... scripted and obvious. Has one meeting with Bannon and suddenly the former Mayor of London Oh Oh Boris hates the Muslims now, does he?HYUFD said:
Daily Mail comments yesterday were very pro Boris and he did not even propose to ban the full veil as say France and Denmark have doneStark_Dawning said:
Clearly, in the wake of the 'Tommy Robinson' circus coming to town, Boris decided to base his relaunch around a controversial subject that would also win him the approbation of the hard Right. But it all looked clumsy and contrived, and the quips about letterboxes etc. just juvenile in that context. I think Boris has flunked it.CarlottaVance said:
OH WELL, I'M SURE IT'S COMPLETELY GENUINE AND NOT SHITTY GAMBIT FROM A NARCISSISTIC MORAL VACUUM WHO WILL SAY AND DO ANYTHING TO GET NOTICED.
Just imagine how thick you'd have to be to buy his Damascene conversion to Muslim hate.
57% of UK voters wanted to ban the burka in a 2016 poll including even 48% of Labour voters as well as a big majority of Tory and UKIP voters
https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/08/31/majority-public-backs-burka-ban/
It was very rare in Islam until the British suzereignty of Egypt. We banned the burqa on the grounds it was sexist and demeaning to women. The result was it became a nationalist / anti-British symbol0 -
Will of the people.Sean_F said:
Very much a case of one man, one vote, once.TheScreamingEagles said:
He won an election in 1933.Sean_F said:
Are you sure about that?TheScreamingEagles said:
Hitler’s Germany was a democracy too.Anorak said:
Mental and utterly unspoofable.Philip_Thompson said:That's precisely what many in "the greatest generation" did. They sacrificed their lives to ensure we could be a free democracy.
I'm not prepared to throw away their sacrifice on the altar of potentially avoiding a one off recession.
So yes. Democracy and freedom are worth the loss of life. A recession is not.
Just saying.0 -
Not after the Enabling Act!TheScreamingEagles said:
Hitler’s Germany was a democracy too.Anorak said:
Mental and utterly unspoofable.Philip_Thompson said:That's precisely what many in "the greatest generation" did. They sacrificed their lives to ensure we could be a free democracy.
I'm not prepared to throw away their sacrifice on the altar of potentially avoiding a one off recession.
So yes. Democracy and freedom are worth the loss of life. A recession is not.
Just saying.0 -
And he promptly passed the Enabling Act, which brought about 12 years of dictatorship.TheScreamingEagles said:
He won an election in 1933.Sean_F said:
Are you sure about that?TheScreamingEagles said:
Hitler’s Germany was a democracy too.Anorak said:
Mental and utterly unspoofable.Philip_Thompson said:That's precisely what many in "the greatest generation" did. They sacrificed their lives to ensure we could be a free democracy.
I'm not prepared to throw away their sacrifice on the altar of potentially avoiding a one off recession.
So yes. Democracy and freedom are worth the loss of life. A recession is not.
Just saying.0 -
To be fair to Boris (not a sentence I thought I'd say), I think his burqa comments fall into the "juvenile and stupid" category more than they do "racist". After all, it's not like a comparison to a letterbox is a commonly racist trope to my knowledge (though the comparison to a bank-robber is more questionable).
That said, I can't help but notice there's some PBers who've been very silent on this topic, who I'm 100% convinced would've been in paroxysms of outrage if a Labour activist had been discovered to have tweeted some mocking comments about Orthodox Jewish dress.0 -
Does anyone really think that Corbyn is saying that they don't have a right to exist, are not a democracy etc? He is making the point that they push hard for positive comments about Israel which influences the reporting of their current behaviour.Scott_P said:
I mean I have a higher regard for the stuff I had to scrape off the bottom of my shoe this morning than I do for Corbyn but this is just silly.0 -
Why should US companies have assets confiscated because of the actions of their government?Barnesian said:I see Donald Trump is threatening EU business who trade with Iran.
Trump tweet "Anyone doing business with Iran will NOT be doing business with the United States".
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45098031
The EU is introducing a blocking statute to protect European businesses but many European are sufficiently cowed by Trump's threat to stop trading with Iran.
I would like to see the EU go further and provide a mechanism for businesses to reclaim damages from the US (from the European assets of US companies). "If the US illegally damages the interests of EU businesses, compensation will be extracted from US assets." The EU is as powerful an economic unit as the US and should not be bullied. The UK alone - well that's another matter.0 -
In isolation you'd be right, but you have to see the article in the context of heightened levels of concern about Islamophobia, and the exploitation of Islamophobia by extremist/populist politicians.Danny565 said:To be fair to Boris (not a sentence I thought I'd say), I think his burqa comments fall into the "juvenile and stupid" category more than they do "racist". After all, it's not like a comparison to a letterbox is a commonly racist trope to my knowledge (though the comparison to a bank-robber is more questionable)...
0 -
1) That depends on your definition of win (could a Labour supporter helpfully say that May didn't win last year)?TheScreamingEagles said:
He won an election in 1933.Sean_F said:
Are you sure about that?TheScreamingEagles said:
Hitler’s Germany was a democracy too.Anorak said:
Mental and utterly unspoofable.Philip_Thompson said:That's precisely what many in "the greatest generation" did. They sacrificed their lives to ensure we could be a free democracy.
I'm not prepared to throw away their sacrifice on the altar of potentially avoiding a one off recession.
So yes. Democracy and freedom are worth the loss of life. A recession is not.
Just saying.
2) He was never actually elected to the office of President as required by Weimar which is where he technically derived his power from. On the only occasion he stood he came a poor second to an 84 year old war hero. He was appointed Reichkanzler by the president (which didn't require him to have a majority in the Reichstag) he simply assumed the office of President, merging it with the Chancellorship and creating the new office of 'Fuhrer;'
3) The election of 1933 was agreed to be the last election by the cabinet as a whole, of which only three members were Nazis ('any return to the Democratic system is to be absolutely avoided').
4) Subsequent plebiscites and elections (1934, 1936 and 1938) were marked by massive fraud and intimidation and offered no choice of candidates, and the questions offered only approval or disapproval of actions already taken - Hitler's assumption of the Presidency, the reoccupation of the Rhineland, and the Anschluss with Austria.
4) All other parties were banned and laws were passed by decree.
Not seeing this democracy lark.0 -
Sure. But we served our time in politics and have largely retired from the fray.williamglenn said:
But you promised that you and your family would see Brexit voters right. It's your duty!Charles said:
No thanks!williamglenn said:
What we need is a negotiator of Charles' calibre to step in and get us a deal *better than BATNA* to save jobs and keep things going as they are.TOPPING said:
It doesn't have to be that dramatic.Scott_P said:
We are clearly not going to agree on this, but the depth of the catastrophe is the issue.TGOHF said:So temporary then.
You can't typically come back from a temporary case of death. A future promise of oxygen is worthless when you have already suffocated. A ladder is no help when you are lying crushed on the rocks, etc...
You think there will be no serious immediate and lasting damage, in the hope of something in the future.
I think the damage of no deal, would be immediate and catastrophic.
I hope it doesn't happen
Leavers simply seem not to understand the time value of money, or the theory of discounting and NPV. The likely value destruction of Brexit is tragic.
Doesn't matter too much of course if you are a well off Leaver, that said.
(Or in the case of uncle D bloody well ought to!)0 -
Oh come on. The 'right to exist' is something which not expressed by any other nation, and Corbyn is clearly questioning it. It shouldn't be something which is even in mind, and yet Corbyn has a issue with it.DavidL said:
Does anyone really think that Corbyn is saying that they don't have a right to exist, are not a democracy etc? He is making the point that they push hard for positive comments about Israel which influences the reporting of their current behaviour.Scott_P said:
0 -
It was utter stupid and offensive. Boris is a buffoon.Danny565 said:To be fair to Boris (not a sentence I thought I'd say), I think his burqa comments fall into the "juvenile and stupid" category more than they do "racist". After all, it's not like a comparison to a letterbox is a commonly racist trope to my knowledge (though the comparison to a bank-robber is more questionable).
That said, I can't help but notice there's some PBers who've been very silent on this topic, who I'm 100% convinced would've been in paroxysms of outrage if a Labour activist had been discovered to have tweeted some mocking comments about Orthodox Jewish dress.
Having said that, I do not like the Burka. It it in my opinion a clear method of oppression towards women.
I have no issue with a headscarf or modest clothing to a certain degree.0 -
Has Boris Johnson ever actually said he isn't racist? Genuine question.Danny565 said:To be fair to Boris (not a sentence I thought I'd say), I think his burqa comments fall into the "juvenile and stupid" category more than they do "racist". After all, it's not like a comparison to a letterbox is a commonly racist trope to my knowledge (though the comparison to a bank-robber is more questionable).
That said, I can't help but notice there's some PBers who've been very silent on this topic, who I'm 100% convinced would've been in paroxysms of outrage if a Labour activist had been discovered to have tweeted some mocking comments about Orthodox Jewish dress.0 -
Perhaps TSE is thinking GDR or DPRK versions of democracyydoethur said:
1) That depends on your definition of win (could a Labour supporter helpfully say that May didn't win last year)?TheScreamingEagles said:
He won an election in 1933.Sean_F said:
Are you sure about that?TheScreamingEagles said:
Hitler’s Germany was a democracy too.Anorak said:
Mental and utterly unspoofable.Philip_Thompson said:That's precisely what many in "the greatest generation" did. They sacrificed their lives to ensure we could be a free democracy.
I'm not prepared to throw away their sacrifice on the altar of potentially avoiding a one off recession.
So yes. Democracy and freedom are worth the loss of life. A recession is not.
Just saying.
2) He was never actually elected to the office of President as required by Weimar. On the only occasion he stood he came a poor second to an 84 year old war hero. He was appointed Reichkanzler by the president (which didn't require him to have a majority in the Reichstag) he simply assumed the office of President, merging it with the Chancellorship and creating the new office of 'Fuhrer;'
3) The election of 1933 was agreed to be the last election by the cabinet as a whole, of which only three members were Nazis ('any return to the Democratic system is to be absolutely avoided').
4) Subsequent plebiscites and elections (1934, 1936 and 1938) were marked by massive fraud and intimidation and offered no choice of candidates, and the questions offered only approval or disapproval of actions already taken - Hitler's assumption of the Presidency, the reoccupation of the Rhineland, and the Anschluss with Austria.
4) All other parties were banned and laws were passed by decree.
Not seeing this democracy lark.
0 -
I dunno. The SNP say something along those lines about the UK fairly often.Slackbladder said:
Oh come on. The 'right to exist' is something which not expressed by any other nation, and Corbyn is clearly questioning it. It shouldn't be something which is even in mind, and yet Corbyn has a issue with it.DavidL said:
Does anyone really think that Corbyn is saying that they don't have a right to exist, are not a democracy etc? He is making the point that they push hard for positive comments about Israel which influences the reporting of their current behaviour.Scott_P said:
Edit - more seriously we could add the following nations whose 'right to exist' is in some way disputed;
Kosovo
Chechnya
Somaliland
Taiwan
Guyana (although that's a complicated question)
Northern Cyprus
Western Sahara
To be mischievous, Palestine.
I'm sure there are others.
The difference - and it is a difference - is that nobody is proposing the forcible relocation of the inhabitants under foreign rule (at least not at the moment) of any state on that list except possibly Palestine.0
