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Fortunes rise and fall fast, but it now seems possible Javid could be prime minister by the end of the year
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/sajid-javid-conservative-leadership-new-prime-minister-a8402221.html
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And he will not be the last.rural_voter said:
I dislike his far right views but he's free to say what he likes in parliament even if it's the word 'object'. Parliament should change the rules if it dislikes this procedure.Philip_Thompson said:
He also voted against liberalising Sunday Trading Laws. He's not a libertarian.Alistair said:Chope voted against lowering the age of consent for homosexuality.
So if you hear him talk about wanting the government to be less interfering busy body then he is talking utter shit. That's just cover for his reactionary twatitudeness.
The Daily Mail and Sun are the price we pay for a free press. Having some truly obnoxious MPs may be the price we have to pay for democracy. He's not the only objectionable individual in the HoC.
Even if they defeat England it won't mean that they haven't put in a woeful performance - it might just be that England put in an even more woeful performance. It's been known to happen.tlg86 said:
I reckon Senegal will be Africa's one decent team at this tournament. I'll remind you of your post when they defeat England in the last 16.Pulpstar said:Whats happened to football in Africa ?
Every African performance so far has been woeful.0 -
The NHS thing seems like too big a policy to waste just for one weekends worth of good headlines.0
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You could always take a leaf out of Gordo's playbook and re-announce it every few months.Artist said:The NHS thing seems like too big a policy to waste just for one weekends worth of good headlines.
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The actual 70th nhs date is early July. So yes they will re-announce it.FrancisUrquhart said:
You could always take a leaf out of Gordo's playbook and re-announce it every few months.Artist said:The NHS thing seems like too big a policy to waste just for one weekends worth of good headlines.
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Some of us were screaming it from the sidelines......FrancisUrquhart said:
Imagine if May had done this last year for the GE.....bloody total and utter numpty.RobD said:More evidence the bus was a lie:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/06/16/350m-extra-week-nhs-hunt-announces-theresa-may-locks-britain/
384mn rather than 350mn....0 -
Javid could be prime minister but he has a big problem in being bald. I am sure I have seen focus groups in the past punishing politicians for having no hair or little hair. I personally think Javid looks odd, I cannot put my finger on why but it could be his lack of hair.rottenborough said:Fortunes rise and fall fast, but it now seems possible Javid could be prime minister by the end of the year
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/sajid-javid-conservative-leadership-new-prime-minister-a8402221.html0 -
A lot percentage wise - but less numerically than the population of Harpenden.FrancisUrquhart said:1 in 10 of Iceland's population is in Russia...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5852295/Iceland-charms-World-Cup-debut-against-Argentina.html0 -
I guess I’d like to see the evidence that “it can be quiet difficult to prosecute in some circumstances”.kle4 said:
The issue seems to be it can be quite difficult in some circumstances to prosecute without a specific offence, even when it is clear something outrageous has occurred. That some prosecutions have been successful does not in itself speak as to whether there is a need for this to be covered under a specific offence. I'm no legislative expert (and Chope in any case was not making a point about the specifics of this bill, so he certainly wasn't making a judgement about it), but from the news write ups on the face of it the change appears justified.YBarddCwsc said:There have been convictions for upskirting under outraging public decency.
"Allington-Smith further admitted outraging public decency, between September 2009 and September 2014, for a series of acts of a “lewd, obscene or disgusting nature” by taking images up women’s skirts without their knowledge. "
So, what are the offences that are not covered by existing legislation?
The evidence seems to rest on one individual case (that of Gina Martin), in which the police refused to take action.
My own personal experience (in rather different matters) is that it is all to easy for the police to say that they can’t act, when in fact they can act and they damn well should act.
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All about the timing. May looks very vulnerable to a fall this year, and despite being around for ages and, IIRC, criticised as lacking charisma in the past, Javid has made a bit of an impression in his early days in an even more high profile post. As it notes, he's making himself popular just as the despair about May has become palpable.rottenborough said:Fortunes rise and fall fast, but it now seems possible Javid could be prime minister by the end of the year
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/sajid-javid-conservative-leadership-new-prime-minister-a8402221.html
I could see it happening. If he can avoid some pitfalls in the coming months, even make his mark with something dramatic, then who would be best placed to beat him? I guess we cannot write off Boris, but it feels like his star is waning. Gove remains super popular with some, but viscerally hated by plenty. Hunt seems to be invisible again, so his reputation on Health will be all he has, and even if he's never cocked up enough to be shifted it's still not a position which lends itself to a positive public image. Davis, with his constant whinging and threats of resignation? No thanks. Anyone else? Surely a female candidate will emerge, but Leadsom is another invisible one thesedays, but in fairness did well last time when she was pretty invisible before that.
With the feral-cats-in-a-sack like nature of the Tories though, my main worry would be what stances PM Javid could take, and who he would have to keep around to keep them on boar. Let's face it, I doubt May appointed Boris to one of the Great Offices of State because she wanted him around.
The most cutting remark though:
Tory MPs have been saying for months that this can’t go on, and yet, every month, it has.0 -
Whatever happened to: "I disagree with what you say but I'd be willing to die to defend your right to say it"?0
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Should have taken the Tory approach and just called them extremists.FrancisUrquhart said:0 -
Valid questions to be asked, perhaps, of whether this would have been (and will be) a necessary addition to the statute book - although sadly irrelevant to the Chope issue since he didn't know one way or another it seems.YBarddCwsc said:
I guess I’d like to see the evidence that “it can be quiet difficult to prosecute in some circumstances”.kle4 said:
The issue seems to be it can be quite difficult in some circumstances to prosecute without a specific offence, even when it is clear something outrageous has occurred. That some prosecutions have been successful does not in itself speak as to whether there is a need for this to be covered under a specific offence. I'm no legislative expert (and Chope in any case was not making a point about the specifics of this bill, so he certainly wasn't making a judgement about it), but from the news write ups on the face of it the change appears justified.YBarddCwsc said:There have been convictions for upskirting under outraging public decency.
"Allington-Smith further admitted outraging public decency, between September 2009 and September 2014, for a series of acts of a “lewd, obscene or disgusting nature” by taking images up women’s skirts without their knowledge. "
So, what are the offences that are not covered by existing legislation?
The evidence seems to rest on one individual case (that of Gina Martin), in which the police refused to take action.
My own personal experience (in rather different matters) is that it is all to easy for the police to say that they can’t act, when in fact they can act and they damn well should act.
Another question would be even if it is not strictly necessary (or rather, beneficial to justice), would it actually be harmful to add it as a specific offence, beyond the law being a bit cluttered?0 -
I notice that the last minute bill saving turn for JezFest is fronted by a somebody who studied at Latymer, Westminster School, Royal Academy of Music and Cambridge...very Maomentum demographic, up the werkers.0
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He would certainly be made to make some stern commitments I should think. One reason I should think all the candidates lining up were hoping May could finish it all up and then depart 'job done and head held high' in 2019 or whatever, and (hopefully) carry the can for any negatives, and they could then plow their own furrow.rottenborough said:0 -
A Labour source said: "David's been a great campaigner on this issue - he was at the protest in Parliament Square.FrancisUrquhart said:
"He just wasn't expecting the question."
Bit of a poor reaction even if he had, for some reason, assumed a Sun reporter would not spring something like that on him at JezfFest. Not expecting the question doesn't mean he should lose cool so much.
I know MPs are only human (no jokes please!) but that seems like a basic skill - always expect you might get a hostile question thrown at you, even when completely irrelevant.0 -
He should have just said PASSSSSSSSS...kle4 said:
A Labour source said: "David's been a great campaigner on this issue - he was at the protest in Parliament Square.FrancisUrquhart said:
"He just wasn't expecting the question."
Bit of a poor reaction even if he had, for some reason, assumed a Sun reporter would not spring something like that on him at JezfFest. Not expecting the question doesn't mean he should lose cool so much.
I know MPs are only human (no jokes please!) but that seems like a basic skill - always expect you might get a hostile question thrown at you, even when completely irrelevant.0 -
I think the 9 that is available on BF now, is a steal imho.kle4 said:
He would certainly be made to make some stern commitments I should think. One reason I should think all the candidates lining up were hoping May could finish it all up and then depart 'job done and head held high' in 2019 or whatever, and (hopefully) carry the can for any negatives, and they could then plow their own furrow.rottenborough said:
JRM is 7.8 for FFS.0 -
I would have thought that unless Labour announce an even bigger rise (don't rule it out) if they were in power, we should expect to see it become the new 'strong and stable' or 'long term economic plan'.Artist said:The NHS thing seems like too big a policy to waste just for one weekends worth of good headlines.
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out of intrest, What is/was his position on Brexit? I don't remember him playing a big part in the referendum campaign for ether side.kle4 said:
All about the timing. May looks very vulnerable to a fall this year, and despite being around for ages and, IIRC, criticised as lacking charisma in the past, Javid has made a bit of an impression in his early days in an even more high profile post. As it notes, he's making himself popular just as the despair about May has become palpable.rottenborough said:Fortunes rise and fall fast, but it now seems possible Javid could be prime minister by the end of the year
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/sajid-javid-conservative-leadership-new-prime-minister-a8402221.html
I could see it happening. If he can avoid some pitfalls in the coming months, even make his mark with something dramatic, then who would be best placed to beat him? I guess we cannot write off Boris, but it feels like his star is waning. Gove remains super popular with some, but viscerally hated by plenty. Hunt seems to be invisible again, so his reputation on Health will be all he has, and even if he's never cocked up enough to be shifted it's still not a position which lends itself to a positive public image. Davis, with his constant whinging and threats of resignation? No thanks. Anyone else? Surely a female candidate will emerge, but Leadsom is another invisible one thesedays, but in fairness did well last time when she was pretty invisible before that.
With the feral-cats-in-a-sack like nature of the Tories though, my main worry would be what stances PM Javid could take, and who he would have to keep around to keep them on boar. Let's face it, I doubt May appointed Boris to one of the Great Offices of State because she wanted him around.
The most cutting remark though:
Tory MPs have been saying for months that this can’t go on, and yet, every month, it has.
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I think they may have already promised more.kle4 said:
I would have thought that unless Labour announce an even bigger rise (don't rule it out) if they were in power, we should expect to see it become the new 'strong and stable' or 'long term economic plan'.Artist said:The NHS thing seems like too big a policy to waste just for one weekends worth of good headlines.
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How'd they all get time off work!?FrancisUrquhart said:1 in 10 of Iceland's population is in Russia...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5852295/Iceland-charms-World-Cup-debut-against-Argentina.html0 -
They are all on maternity / paternity leave after their activities at 2016?kle4 said:
How'd they all get time off work!?FrancisUrquhart said:1 in 10 of Iceland's population is in Russia...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5852295/Iceland-charms-World-Cup-debut-against-Argentina.html0 -
We should prosecute the alleged perpetrator in the Gina Martin case, and find out whether the existing legislation can do the job.kle4 said:
Valid questions to be asked, perhaps, of whether this would have been (and will be) a necessary addition to the statute book - although sadly irrelevant to the Chope issue since he didn't know one way or another it seems.YBarddCwsc said:
I guess I’d like to see the evidence that “it can be quiet difficult to prosecute in some circumstances”.kle4 said:
The issue seems to be it can be quite difficult in some circumstances to prosecute without a specific offence, even when it is clear something outrageous has occurred. That some prosecutions have been successful does not in itself speak as to whether there is a need for this to be covered under a specific offence. I'm no legislative expert (and Chope in any case was not making a point about the specifics of this bill, so he certainly wasn't making a judgement about it), but from the news write ups on the face of it the change appears justified.YBarddCwsc said:There have been convictions for upskirting under outraging public decency.
"Allington-Smith further admitted outraging public decency, between September 2009 and September 2014, for a series of acts of a “lewd, obscene or disgusting nature” by taking images up women’s skirts without their knowledge. "
So, what are the offences that are not covered by existing legislation?
The evidence seems to rest on one individual case (that of Gina Martin), in which the police refused to take action.
My own personal experience (in rather different matters) is that it is all to easy for the police to say that they can’t act, when in fact they can act and they damn well should act.
Another question would be even if it is not strictly necessary (or rather, beneficial to justice), would it actually be harmful to add it as a specific offence, beyond the law being a bit cluttered?
Presumably, we can still do this.0 -
I'm pretty sure he was a Remainer, but who has been fairly clear since that we must now Brexit, and not super softly at that. I recall Guido was pleased when he replaced Rudd due to the balance of positions on the Brexit sub-committee.BigRich said:
out of intrest, What is/was his position on Brexit? I don't remember him playing a big part in the referendum campaign for ether side.kle4 said:
All about the timing. May looks very vulnerable to a fall this year, and despite being around for ages and, IIRC, criticised as lacking charisma in the past, Javid has made a bit of an impression in his early days in an even more high profile post. As it notes, he's making himself popular just as the despair about May has become palpable.rottenborough said:Fortunes rise and fall fast, but it now seems possible Javid could be prime minister by the end of the year
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/sajid-javid-conservative-leadership-new-prime-minister-a8402221.html
I could see it happening. If he can avoid some pitfalls in the coming months, even make his mark with something dramatic, then who would be best placed to beat him? I guess we cannot write off Boris, but it feels like his star is waning. Gove remains super popular with some, but viscerally hated by plenty. Hunt seems to be invisible again, so his reputation on Health will be all he has, and even if he's never cocked up enough to be shifted it's still not a position which lends itself to a positive public image. Davis, with his constant whinging and threats of resignation? No thanks. Anyone else? Surely a female candidate will emerge, but Leadsom is another invisible one thesedays, but in fairness did well last time when she was pretty invisible before that.
With the feral-cats-in-a-sack like nature of the Tories though, my main worry would be what stances PM Javid could take, and who he would have to keep around to keep them on boar. Let's face it, I doubt May appointed Boris to one of the Great Offices of State because she wanted him around.
The most cutting remark though:
Tory MPs have been saying for months that this can’t go on, and yet, every month, it has.
The Spectator calls him a pragmatist on Brexit, having been an outspoken eurosceptic who backed Remain due to concerns over business.
https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/04/why-sajid-javids-appointment-as-home-secretary-is-striking/
I'd assume that would mean that, like May, he will have to fight to reassure the more ardent Brexiteers, but that he has done a better job of that so far than her, albeit with the comfort of not being in the top job.0 -
While the Tory Party does not seem at all united or able at the moment to have a Howard/IDS style transfer of power, if anyone was able to be a unity candidate at the moment it does seem like it could be Javid. Not extreme enough on any issue to have pissed people off into necessarily launching a "Stop Javid" candidate if people united behind him.
I can live in hope at least.0 -
It will actually be "balanced approach to public spending".kle4 said:
I would have thought that unless Labour announce an even bigger rise (don't rule it out) if they were in power, we should expect to see it become the new 'strong and stable' or 'long term economic plan'.Artist said:The NHS thing seems like too big a policy to waste just for one weekends worth of good headlines.
The message being: if you're fiscally responsible, you can then afford to invest in public services; the Tories' strategy is paying off, don't risk it all with Corbyn.0 -
2 years ago? And I thought my daughter being three weeks late was a long pregnancy!FrancisUrquhart said:
They are all on maternity / paternity leave after their activities at 2016?kle4 said:
How'd they all get time off work!?FrancisUrquhart said:1 in 10 of Iceland's population is in Russia...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5852295/Iceland-charms-World-Cup-debut-against-Argentina.html0 -
I think it changed to: "I disagree with what you say, and I think you should lose your job and be ostracised from society forevermore for having the temerity to say it."AndyJS said:Whatever happened to: "I disagree with what you say but I'd be willing to die to defend your right to say it"?
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Thanks for that, nice summarykle4 said:
I'm pretty sure he was a Remainer, but who has been fairly clear since that we must now Brexit, and not super softly at that. I recall Guido was pleased when he replaced Rudd due to the balance of positions on the Brexit sub-committee.BigRich said:
out of intrest, What is/was his position on Brexit? I don't remember him playing a big part in the referendum campaign for ether side.kle4 said:
All about the timing. May looks very vulnerable to a fall this year, and despite being around for ages and, IIRC, criticised as lacking charisma in the past, Javid has made a bit of an impression in his early days in an even more high profile post. As it notes, he's making himself popular just as the despair about May has become palpable.rottenborough said:Fortunes rise and fall fast, but it now seems possible Javid could be prime minister by the end of the year
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/sajid-javid-conservative-leadership-new-prime-minister-a8402221.html
I could see it happening. If he can avoid some pitfalls in the coming months, even make his mark with something dramatic, then who would be best placed to beat him? I guess we cannot write off Boris, but it feels like his star is waning. Gove remains super popular with some, but viscerally hated by plenty. Hunt seems to be invisible again, so his reputation on Health will be all he has, and even if he's never cocked up enough to be shifted it's still not a position which lends itself to a positive public image. Davis, with his constant whinging and threats of resignation? No thanks. Anyone else? Surely a female candidate will emerge, but Leadsom is another invisible one thesedays, but in fairness did well last time when she was pretty invisible before that.
With the feral-cats-in-a-sack like nature of the Tories though, my main worry would be what stances PM Javid could take, and who he would have to keep around to keep them on boar. Let's face it, I doubt May appointed Boris to one of the Great Offices of State because she wanted him around.
The most cutting remark though:
Tory MPs have been saying for months that this can’t go on, and yet, every month, it has.
The Spectator calls him a pragmatist on Brexit, having been an outspoken eurosceptic who backed Remain due to concerns over business.
https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/04/why-sajid-javids-appointment-as-home-secretary-is-striking/
I'd assume that would mean that, like May, he will have to fight to reassure the more ardent Brexiteers, but that he has done a better job of that so far than her, albeit with the comfort of not being in the top job.0 -
I was wrong about that not working enough anymore in 2015 (and 2017 was focused on other things) but I really have doubts that will continue to work. Cameron was finding it increasingly hard to find new ways to get the deficit down with a slim majority, and since then I would guess austerity is pretty dead as there won't be the numbers for strong action. They may not be opening the floodgates, but they surely are not going to just sit back and claim Corbyn is offering unaffordable goodies next time?Casino_Royale said:
It will actually be "balanced approach to public spending".kle4 said:
I would have thought that unless Labour announce an even bigger rise (don't rule it out) if they were in power, we should expect to see it become the new 'strong and stable' or 'long term economic plan'.Artist said:The NHS thing seems like too big a policy to waste just for one weekends worth of good headlines.
The message being: if you're fiscally responsible, you can then afford to invest in public services; the Tories' strategy is paying off, don't risk it all with Corbyn.
Or in short, every election is about 'Don't risk it' vs 'time for a change'. The astounding lack of competence shown by the government in the past year has, remarkably, not been visible in polling to date, but every year someone is in government is a year when the 'Don't risk it argument' becomes less acute. Brown tried it after 13 years of government and it sure didn't work then. If we make it to 2022 that's 12 years...0 -
Virtually everyone I speak to laughs or wrinkles their nose when they ask me who should be next Conservative leader, and I say, "Jeremy Hunt", but they do listen when I explain my reasons why, and start thinking about it.
Yet again, this is another win for him. He shouldn't be ruled out.0 -
I tried explaining why I thought he could be in with a shout to a reasonably politically interested colleague. Maybe my heart wasn't in it, but I was much less successful than you apparently were in convincing them he has a chance!Casino_Royale said:Virtually everyone I speak to laughs or wrinkles their nose when they ask me who should be next Conservative leader, and I say, "Jeremy Hunt", but they do listen when I explain my reasons why, and start thinking about it.
Yet again, this is another win for him. He shouldn't be ruled out.
Night all.0 -
The long incubation time is why they all end up massive and competing in World Strongest Man ;-)Philip_Thompson said:
2 years ago? And I thought my daughter being three weeks late was a long pregnancy!FrancisUrquhart said:
They are all on maternity / paternity leave after their activities at 2016?kle4 said:
How'd they all get time off work!?FrancisUrquhart said:1 in 10 of Iceland's population is in Russia...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5852295/Iceland-charms-World-Cup-debut-against-Argentina.html0 -
The problem Brown had was the utter mess he made of the economy, his personality and stunning incompetence. He was despised by many particularly in England. Unless a deal is made for Brexit I cannot see how the Tories can use the "Don't risk it" mantra you cite above as they will be responsible for any unfavorable economic fall out.kle4 said:
I was wrong about that not working enough anymore in 2015 (and 2017 was focused on other things) but I really have doubts that will continue to work. Cameron was finding it increasingly hard to find new ways to get the deficit down with a slim majority, and since then I would guess austerity is pretty dead as there won't be the numbers for strong action. They may not be opening the floodgates, but they surely are not going to just sit back and claim Corbyn is offering unaffordable goodies next time?Casino_Royale said:
It will actually be "balanced approach to public spending".kle4 said:
I would have thought that unless Labour announce an even bigger rise (don't rule it out) if they were in power, we should expect to see it become the new 'strong and stable' or 'long term economic plan'.Artist said:The NHS thing seems like too big a policy to waste just for one weekends worth of good headlines.
The message being: if you're fiscally responsible, you can then afford to invest in public services; the Tories' strategy is paying off, don't risk it all with Corbyn.
Or in short, every election is about 'Don't risk it' vs 'time for a change'. The astounding lack of competence shown by the government in the past year has, remarkably, not been visible in polling to date, but every year someone is in government is a year when the 'Don't risk it argument' becomes less acute. Brown tried it after 13 years of government and it sure didn't work then. If we make it to 2022 that's 12 years...0 -
Even if a deal is made there will be a hit of some kind, so I don't see how they can use it very effectively even then, even with Labour supporting (for the moment) Brexit of some kind.The_Taxman said:
The problem Brown had was the utter mess he made of the economy, his personality and stunning incompetence. He was despised by many particularly in England. Unless a deal is made for Brexit I cannot see how the Tories can use the "Don't risk it" mantra you cite above as they will be responsible for any unfavorable economic fall out.kle4 said:
I was wrong about that not working enough anymore in 2015 (and 2017 was focused on other things) but I really have doubts that will continue to work. Cameron was finding it increasingly hard to find new ways to get the deficit down with a slim majority, and since then I would guess austerity is pretty dead as there won't be the numbers for strong action. They may not be opening the floodgates, but they surely are not going to just sit back and claim Corbyn is offering unaffordable goodies next time?Casino_Royale said:
It will actually be "balanced approach to public spending".kle4 said:
I would have thought that unless Labour announce an even bigger rise (don't rule it out) if they were in power, we should expect to see it become the new 'strong and stable' or 'long term economic plan'.Artist said:The NHS thing seems like too big a policy to waste just for one weekends worth of good headlines.
The message being: if you're fiscally responsible, you can then afford to invest in public services; the Tories' strategy is paying off, don't risk it all with Corbyn.
Or in short, every election is about 'Don't risk it' vs 'time for a change'. The astounding lack of competence shown by the government in the past year has, remarkably, not been visible in polling to date, but every year someone is in government is a year when the 'Don't risk it argument' becomes less acute. Brown tried it after 13 years of government and it sure didn't work then. If we make it to 2022 that's 12 years...0 -
I like Jeremy Hunt - I could see him as PM much in the same way I could imagine Cameron as PM years before he even became leader of the party. Hunt is probably the leader Labour/LD most fear.Casino_Royale said:Virtually everyone I speak to laughs or wrinkles their nose when they ask me who should be next Conservative leader, and I say, "Jeremy Hunt", but they do listen when I explain my reasons why, and start thinking about it.
Yet again, this is another win for him. He shouldn't be ruled out.0 -
Reagan: "If you're explaining, you're losing.”Casino_Royale said:Virtually everyone I speak to laughs or wrinkles their nose when they ask me who should be next Conservative leader, and I say, "Jeremy Hunt", but they do listen when I explain my reasons why, and start thinking about it.
Yet again, this is another win for him. He shouldn't be ruled out.
But, with my wallet speaking, Hunt is great choice for next PM.0 -
The most successful Labour and Tory leaders are WASPs - it is foolish for these parties to choose someone with a different (minority) ethnicity, as this a handicap due to widespread "sotto voce" xenophobia.The_Taxman said:
Javid could be prime minister but he has a big problem in being bald. I am sure I have seen focus groups in the past punishing politicians for having no hair or little hair. I personally think Javid looks odd, I cannot put my finger on why but it could be his lack of hair.rottenborough said:Fortunes rise and fall fast, but it now seems possible Javid could be prime minister by the end of the year
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/sajid-javid-conservative-leadership-new-prime-minister-a8402221.html0 -
I dunno. I have no idea, but I suspect, in the depths of the wee hours, it is Boris and his ability to reach out to the voters in an way no one else can that might be keeping them awake.The_Taxman said:
I like Jeremy Hunt - I could see him as PM much in the same way I could imagine Cameron as PM years before he even became leader of the party. Hunt is probably the leader Labour/LD most fear.Casino_Royale said:Virtually everyone I speak to laughs or wrinkles their nose when they ask me who should be next Conservative leader, and I say, "Jeremy Hunt", but they do listen when I explain my reasons why, and start thinking about it.
Yet again, this is another win for him. He shouldn't be ruled out.0 -
I am on Senegal at 200/1 and intend to remind everybody when they reach the last 16.kle4 said:
And he will not be the last.rural_voter said:
I dislike his far right views but he's free to say what he likes in parliament even if it's the word 'object'. Parliament should change the rules if it dislikes this procedure.Philip_Thompson said:
He also voted against liberalising Sunday Trading Laws. He's not a libertarian.Alistair said:Chope voted against lowering the age of consent for homosexuality.
So if you hear him talk about wanting the government to be less interfering busy body then he is talking utter shit. That's just cover for his reactionary twatitudeness.
The Daily Mail and Sun are the price we pay for a free press. Having some truly obnoxious MPs may be the price we have to pay for democracy. He's not the only objectionable individual in the HoC.
Even if they defeat England it won't mean that they haven't put in a woeful performance - it might just be that England put in an even more woeful performance. It's been known to happen.tlg86 said:
I reckon Senegal will be Africa's one decent team at this tournament. I'll remind you of your post when they defeat England in the last 16.Pulpstar said:Whats happened to football in Africa ?
Every African performance so far has been woeful.0 -
Wonder whether Theresa is thinking we may have to have a new election and she's going to make the NHS (and £350m a week) the centerpiece?
0 -
You must be joking, as well as having next to no charisma,The_Taxman said:
I like Jeremy Hunt - I could see him as PM much in the same way I could imagine Cameron as PM years before he even became leader of the party. Hunt is probably the leader Labour/LD most fear.Casino_Royale said:Virtually everyone I speak to laughs or wrinkles their nose when they ask me who should be next Conservative leader, and I say, "Jeremy Hunt", but they do listen when I explain my reasons why, and start thinking about it.
Yet again, this is another win for him. He shouldn't be ruled out.
Hunt has a YouGov rating of -61%, the worst of any Tory rated bar Michael Gove and George Osborne and Douglas Carswell
https://yougov.co.uk/opi/browse/Jeremy_Hunt0 -
I have come across voters who have been solid backers of the Tories for years, when a member of an ethnic minority became the local candidate in an election, said voter(s) would not vote for them. If you multiply it out it is a problem. Javid could still become PM but I wonder how many seats like Stoke South or Mansfield would be lost in a subsequent GE? I cite these seats as I think the voters who tipped the balance in 2017 would shy away from a Javid run Tory party.daodao said:
The most successful Labour and Tory leaders are WASPs - it is foolish for these parties to choose someone with a different (minority) ethnicity, as this a handicap due to widespread "sotto voce" xenophobia.The_Taxman said:
Javid could be prime minister but he has a big problem in being bald. I am sure I have seen focus groups in the past punishing politicians for having no hair or little hair. I personally think Javid looks odd, I cannot put my finger on why but it could be his lack of hair.rottenborough said:Fortunes rise and fall fast, but it now seems possible Javid could be prime minister by the end of the year
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/sajid-javid-conservative-leadership-new-prime-minister-a8402221.html0 -
People said the same about Obamadaodao said:
The most successful Labour and Tory leaders are WASPs - it is foolish for these parties to choose someone with a different (minority) ethnicity, as this a handicap due to widespread "sotto voce" xenophobia.The_Taxman said:
Javid could be prime minister but he has a big problem in being bald. I am sure I have seen focus groups in the past punishing politicians for having no hair or little hair. I personally think Javid looks odd, I cannot put my finger on why but it could be his lack of hair.rottenborough said:Fortunes rise and fall fast, but it now seems possible Javid could be prime minister by the end of the year
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/sajid-javid-conservative-leadership-new-prime-minister-a8402221.html0 -
I am a bit cautious of that kind of poll. It is unlikely to be weighted and so you have particularly solid Labour inclined voters who use YouGov saying they cannot stand him. It might not be a very good representation of actual opinion.HYUFD said:
You must be joking, Hunt has a YouGov rating of -61%, the worst of any Tory rated bar Michael Gove and George Osborne and Douglas CarswellThe_Taxman said:
I like Jeremy Hunt - I could see him as PM much in the same way I could imagine Cameron as PM years before he even became leader of the party. Hunt is probably the leader Labour/LD most fear.Casino_Royale said:Virtually everyone I speak to laughs or wrinkles their nose when they ask me who should be next Conservative leader, and I say, "Jeremy Hunt", but they do listen when I explain my reasons why, and start thinking about it.
Yet again, this is another win for him. He shouldn't be ruled out.
https://yougov.co.uk/opi/browse/Jeremy_Hunt0 -
It is not 'a win for him' it is May deciding to bung a few million at the NHS to keep the voters and Brexiteers quiet.Casino_Royale said:Virtually everyone I speak to laughs or wrinkles their nose when they ask me who should be next Conservative leader, and I say, "Jeremy Hunt", but they do listen when I explain my reasons why, and start thinking about it.
Yet again, this is another win for him. He shouldn't be ruled out.
Hunt has done sod all to think about alternative ways of funding healthcare in this country longer term or real reform in the way healthcare is delivered in government other than wear his token 'NHS' badge, even Lansley at least did some serious thinking on that even if rather long winded
0 -
There are probably a decent block of don't knows or people who have made their mind up on very little, he probably isn't the person to attract Labour voters but he could go down well with others.The_Taxman said:
I am a bit cautious of that kind of poll. It is unlikely to be weighted and so you have particularly solid Labour inclined voters who use YouGov saying they cannot stand him. It might not be a very good representation of actual opinion.HYUFD said:
You must be joking, Hunt has a YouGov rating of -61%, the worst of any Tory rated bar Michael Gove and George Osborne and Douglas CarswellThe_Taxman said:
I like Jeremy Hunt - I could see him as PM much in the same way I could imagine Cameron as PM years before he even became leader of the party. Hunt is probably the leader Labour/LD most fear.Casino_Royale said:Virtually everyone I speak to laughs or wrinkles their nose when they ask me who should be next Conservative leader, and I say, "Jeremy Hunt", but they do listen when I explain my reasons why, and start thinking about it.
Yet again, this is another win for him. He shouldn't be ruled out.
https://yougov.co.uk/opi/browse/Jeremy_Hunt0 -
The idea that people inclined to vote Tory would vote for Comrade Jez instead if Javid were leader is interesting, to say the least.HYUFD said:
People said the same about Obamadaodao said:
The most successful Labour and Tory leaders are WASPs - it is foolish for these parties to choose someone with a different (minority) ethnicity, as this a handicap due to widespread "sotto voce" xenophobia.The_Taxman said:
Javid could be prime minister but he has a big problem in being bald. I am sure I have seen focus groups in the past punishing politicians for having no hair or little hair. I personally think Javid looks odd, I cannot put my finger on why but it could be his lack of hair.rottenborough said:Fortunes rise and fall fast, but it now seems possible Javid could be prime minister by the end of the year
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/sajid-javid-conservative-leadership-new-prime-minister-a8402221.html
I'm not a Tory, but he has better credentials that most of the front runners, for a pitch at 'modern Britain' - son of a bus driver, born in Rochdale.
Given how excited the Tories get about having had 2 female PMs, it exposes Lab as male, pale and stale, too.
But if you're pandering to the former Kippers, then pick bonkers Boris or the widely loathed Gove.
0 -
Sorry, but the words "May deciding" represent the oxymoron of the day.HYUFD said:
It is not 'a win for him' it is May deciding to bung a few million at the NHS to keep the voters and Brexiteers quiet.Casino_Royale said:Virtually everyone I speak to laughs or wrinkles their nose when they ask me who should be next Conservative leader, and I say, "Jeremy Hunt", but they do listen when I explain my reasons why, and start thinking about it.
Yet again, this is another win for him. He shouldn't be ruled out.
Hunt has done sod all to think about alternative ways of funding healthcare in this country longer term or real reform in the way healthcare is delivered in government other than wear his token 'NHS' badge, even Lansley at least did some serious thinking on that even if rather long winded0 -
You can break down the polling to see exactly who likes and who dislikes each figure, apparently the main people who like Hunt are well educated Waitrose shoppers who are interested in Finance and own a Jaguar and are almost certainly diehard Tories anywayThe_Taxman said:
I am a bit cautious of that kind of poll. It is unlikely to be weighted and so you have particularly solid Labour inclined voters who use YouGov saying they cannot stand him. It might not be a very good representation of actual opinion.HYUFD said:
You must be joking, Hunt has a YouGov rating of -61%, the worst of any Tory rated bar Michael Gove and George Osborne and Douglas CarswellThe_Taxman said:
I like Jeremy Hunt - I could see him as PM much in the same way I could imagine Cameron as PM years before he even became leader of the party. Hunt is probably the leader Labour/LD most fear.Casino_Royale said:Virtually everyone I speak to laughs or wrinkles their nose when they ask me who should be next Conservative leader, and I say, "Jeremy Hunt", but they do listen when I explain my reasons why, and start thinking about it.
Yet again, this is another win for him. He shouldn't be ruled out.
https://yougov.co.uk/opi/browse/Jeremy_Hunt0 -
Of the former Remainers I would certainly pick Javid over Hunt, he would have more appeal both with the Asian vote and with former Brexiteers given his Eurosceptic past.AramintaMoonbeamQC said:
The idea that people inclined to vote Tory would vote for Comrade Jez instead if Javid were leader is interesting, to say the least.HYUFD said:
People said the same about Obamadaodao said:
The most successful Labour and Tory leaders are WASPs - it is foolish for these parties to choose someone with a different (minority) ethnicity, as this a handicap due to widespread "sotto voce" xenophobia.The_Taxman said:
Javid could be prime minister but he has a big problem in being bald. I am sure I have seen focus groups in the past punishing politicians for having no hair or little hair. I personally think Javid looks odd, I cannot put my finger on why but it could be his lack of hair.rottenborough said:Fortunes rise and fall fast, but it now seems possible Javid could be prime minister by the end of the year
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/sajid-javid-conservative-leadership-new-prime-minister-a8402221.html
I'm not a Tory, but he has better credentials that most of the front runners, for a pitch at 'modern Britain' - son of a bus driver, born in Rochdale.
Given how excited the Tories get about having had 2 female PMs, it exposes Lab as male, pale and stale, too.
But if you're pandering to the former Kippers, then pick bonkers Boris or the widely loathed Gove.
If pandering to former Kippers then Boris or Mogg would have more appeal than Gove (though Gove would be fine behind the scenes or as Chancellor)0 -
It is not a case of them voting for Corbyn but sitting on their hands IMO. I don't think ethnic minority voters are attracted to vote Tory in sufficient numbers in the right places to win many seats. It is no good adding 5,000 votes to the Tory column if it is a 20,000 Labour majority! Likewise the Tories have dozens of seats using the 2017 election as a reference point where any staying at home voters will punish the Tories.AramintaMoonbeamQC said:
The idea that people inclined to vote Tory would vote for Comrade Jez instead if Javid were leader is interesting, to say the least.HYUFD said:
People said the same about Obamadaodao said:
The most successful Labour and Tory leaders are WASPs - it is foolish for these parties to choose someone with a different (minority) ethnicity, as this a handicap due to widespread "sotto voce" xenophobia.The_Taxman said:
Javid could be prime minister but he has a big problem in being bald. I am sure I have seen focus groups in the past punishing politicians for having no hair or little hair. I personally think Javid looks odd, I cannot put my finger on why but it could be his lack of hair.rottenborough said:Fortunes rise and fall fast, but it now seems possible Javid could be prime minister by the end of the year
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/sajid-javid-conservative-leadership-new-prime-minister-a8402221.html
I'm not a Tory, but he has better credentials that most of the front runners, for a pitch at 'modern Britain' - son of a bus driver, born in Rochdale.
Given how excited the Tories get about having had 2 female PMs, it exposes Lab as male, pale and stale, too.
But if you're pandering to the former Kippers, then pick bonkers Boris or the widely loathed Gove.0 -
You don't want Gove front and centre - Cameron punted him because focus groups consistently showed how much people loathed him.HYUFD said:
Of the former Remainers I would certainly pick Javid over Hunt, he would have more appeal both with the Asian vote and with former Brexiteers given his Eurosceptic past.AramintaMoonbeamQC said:
The idea that people inclined to vote Tory would vote for Comrade Jez instead if Javid were leader is interesting, to say the least.HYUFD said:
People said the same about Obamadaodao said:
The most successful Labour and Tory leaders are WASPs - it is foolish for these parties to choose someone with a different (minority) ethnicity, as this a handicap due to widespread "sotto voce" xenophobia.The_Taxman said:
Javid could be prime minister but he has a big problem in being bald. I am sure I have seen focus groups in the past punishing politicians for having no hair or little hair. I personally think Javid looks odd, I cannot put my finger on why but it could be his lack of hair.rottenborough said:Fortunes rise and fall fast, but it now seems possible Javid could be prime minister by the end of the year
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/sajid-javid-conservative-leadership-new-prime-minister-a8402221.html
I'm not a Tory, but he has better credentials that most of the front runners, for a pitch at 'modern Britain' - son of a bus driver, born in Rochdale.
Given how excited the Tories get about having had 2 female PMs, it exposes Lab as male, pale and stale, too.
But if you're pandering to the former Kippers, then pick bonkers Boris or the widely loathed Gove.
If pandering to former Kippers then Boris or Mogg would have more appeal than Gove (though Gove would be fine behind the scenes or as Chancellor)
Mogg might appeal to the Kippers, but he's an extremely tough sell in the country as a whole and his pro-life stance won't stand up to scrutiny.0 -
+1Nemtynakht said:
Can't agree more. The guy is clearly a tool but no need to drag his family into it.kle4 said:I cannot say I'm ever a fan of this type of headline. For all I think that his actions in blocking bills, whatever their contents and with no assessment on his part of if they can be salvaged in committee stage it seems, are disproportionate to his stated aims and this one is a particularly egregious example of that, I don't see what bringing his wife and daughter into it accomplishes. For all I know they are fully supportive of his actions against this type of bill, even if they supported the intentions behind this particular one.
0 -
Agreed. But there probably are a few. I've seen some very strange ballot papers in counts at multi-member local elections - BNP/Labour/Conservative and UKIP/Liberal. People don't all see politics as laterally as most of us do.Philip_Thompson said:
Hopefully one day there will be DUP/Sinn Fein swing voters. There are afterall Labour/Tory ones. Northern Ireland's sectarian history will only truly be behind it once people feel comfortable to swing like that.
0 -
Mogg v Corbyn would be interesting though as both fire up their Brexiteer and Socialist base without having much appeal to centrist votersAramintaMoonbeamQC said:
You don't want Gove front and centre - Cameron punted him because focus groups consistently showed how much people loathed him.HYUFD said:
Of the former Remainers I would certainly pick Javid over Hunt, he would have more appeal both with the Asian vote and with former Brexiteers given his Eurosceptic past.AramintaMoonbeamQC said:
The idea that people inclined to vote Tory would vote for Comrade Jez instead if Javid were leader is interesting, to say the least.HYUFD said:
People said the same about Obamadaodao said:
The most successful Labour and Tory leaders are WASPs - it is foolish for these parties to choose someone with a different (minority) ethnicity, as this a handicap due to widespread "sotto voce" xenophobia.The_Taxman said:
Javid could be prime minister but he has a big problem in being bald. I am sure I have seen focus groups in the past punishing politicians for having no hair or little hair. I personally think Javid looks odd, I cannot put my finger on why but it could be his lack of hair.rottenborough said:Fortunes rise and fall fast, but it now seems possible Javid could be prime minister by the end of the year
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/sajid-javid-conservative-leadership-new-prime-minister-a8402221.html
I'm not a Tory, but he has better credentials that most of the front runners, for a pitch at 'modern Britain' - son of a bus driver, born in Rochdale.
Given how excited the Tories get about having had 2 female PMs, it exposes Lab as male, pale and stale, too.
But if you're pandering to the former Kippers, then pick bonkers Boris or the widely loathed Gove.
If pandering to former Kippers then Boris or Mogg would have more appeal than Gove (though Gove would be fine behind the scenes or as Chancellor)
Mogg might appeal to the Kippers, but he's an extremely tough sell in the country as a whole and his pro-life stance won't stand up to scrutiny.0 -
It would be insane, wouldn't it? Imagine that GE.HYUFD said:
Mogg v Corbyn would be interesting though as both fire up their Brexiteer and Socialist base without having much appeal to centrist votersAramintaMoonbeamQC said:
You don't want Gove front and centre - Cameron punted him because focus groups consistently showed how much people loathed him.HYUFD said:
Of the former Remainers I would certainly pick Javid over Hunt, he would have more appeal both with the Asian vote and with former Brexiteers given his Eurosceptic past.AramintaMoonbeamQC said:
The idea that people inclined to vote Tory would vote for Comrade Jez instead if Javid were leader is interesting, to say the least.HYUFD said:
People said the same about Obamadaodao said:
The most successful Labour and Tory leaders are WASPs - it is foolish for these parties to choose someone with a different (minority) ethnicity, as this a handicap due to widespread "sotto voce" xenophobia.The_Taxman said:
Javid could be prime minister but he has a big problem in being bald. I am sure I have seen focus groups in the past punishing politicians for having no hair or little hair. I personally think Javid looks odd, I cannot put my finger on why but it could be his lack of hair.rottenborough said:Fortunes rise and fall fast, but it now seems possible Javid could be prime minister by the end of the year
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/sajid-javid-conservative-leadership-new-prime-minister-a8402221.html
I'm not a Tory, but he has better credentials that most of the front runners, for a pitch at 'modern Britain' - son of a bus driver, born in Rochdale.
Given how excited the Tories get about having had 2 female PMs, it exposes Lab as male, pale and stale, too.
But if you're pandering to the former Kippers, then pick bonkers Boris or the widely loathed Gove.
If pandering to former Kippers then Boris or Mogg would have more appeal than Gove (though Gove would be fine behind the scenes or as Chancellor)
Mogg might appeal to the Kippers, but he's an extremely tough sell in the country as a whole and his pro-life stance won't stand up to scrutiny.
If ever there was a time for an LD fightback...0 -
The SDP was of course founded when the choice was Thatcher v FootAramintaMoonbeamQC said:
It would be insane, wouldn't it? Imagine that GE.HYUFD said:
Mogg v Corbyn would be interesting though as both fire up their Brexiteer and Socialist base without having much appeal to centrist votersAramintaMoonbeamQC said:
You don't want Gove front and centre - Cameron punted him because focus groups consistently showed how much people loathed him.HYUFD said:
Of the former Remainers I would certainly pick Javid over Hunt, he would have more appeal both with the Asian vote and with former Brexiteers given his Eurosceptic past.AramintaMoonbeamQC said:
The idea that people inclined to vote Tory would vote for Comrade Jez instead if Javid were leader is interesting, to say the least.HYUFD said:
People said the same about Obamadaodao said:
The most successful Labour and Tory leaders are WASPs - it is foolish for these parties to choose someone with a different (minority) ethnicity, as this a handicap due to widespread "sotto voce" xenophobia.The_Taxman said:
Javid could be prime minister but he has a big problem in being bald. I am sure I have seen focus groups in the past punishing politicians for having no hair or little hair. I personally think Javid looks odd, I cannot put my finger on why but it could be his lack of hair.rottenborough said:Fortunes rise and fall fast, but it now seems possible Javid could be prime minister by the end of the year
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/sajid-javid-conservative-leadership-new-prime-minister-a8402221.html
I'm not a Tory, but he has better credentials that most of the front runners, for a pitch at 'modern Britain' - son of a bus driver, born in Rochdale.
Given how excited the Tories get about having had 2 female PMs, it exposes Lab as male, pale and stale, too.
But if you're pandering to the former Kippers, then pick bonkers Boris or the widely loathed Gove.
If pandering to former Kippers then Boris or Mogg would have more appeal than Gove (though Gove would be fine behind the scenes or as Chancellor)
Mogg might appeal to the Kippers, but he's an extremely tough sell in the country as a whole and his pro-life stance won't stand up to scrutiny.
If ever there was a time for an LD fightback...0 -
-
"In defence of Christopher Chope’s ‘upskirting’ objection
Melanie McDonagh"
https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/06/do-we-really-need-an-upskirting-law/0 -
It is my understanding that upskirting is currently prosecuted as outraging public decency. If so, then my experience as a JP suggests that it's very difficult to obtain a conviction, which I suspect may point towards a reluctance to prosecute.YBarddCwsc said:
I guess I’d like to see the evidence that “it can be quiet difficult to prosecute in some circumstances”.kle4 said:
The issue seems to be it can be quite difficult in some circumstances to prosecute without a specific offence, even when it is clear something outrageous has occurred. That some prosecutions have been successful does not in itself speak as to whether there is a need for this to be covered under a specific offence. I'm no legislative expert (and Chope in any case was not making a point about the specifics of this bill, so he certainly wasn't making a judgement about it), but from the news write ups on the face of it the change appears justified.YBarddCwsc said:There have been convictions for upskirting under outraging public decency.
"Allington-Smith further admitted outraging public decency, between September 2009 and September 2014, for a series of acts of a “lewd, obscene or disgusting nature” by taking images up women’s skirts without their knowledge. "
So, what are the offences that are not covered by existing legislation?
The evidence seems to rest on one individual case (that of Gina Martin), in which the police refused to take action.
My own personal experience (in rather different matters) is that it is all to easy for the police to say that they can’t act, when in fact they can act and they damn well should act.
The main hurdle is that the activity must be proven to have 'outraged' a reasonable person. This presents two problems. Firstly, that 'outrage' needs to be some distance beyond shocked, hurt, damaged, insulted, affronted etc. Secondly, who is that reasonable person?
I have sat on cases where the activity would have 'outraged' my mother, 'disappointed' me, and 'amused' my children.
It also has to pass the test of being 'capable of being seen' by more than one person, which is also quite difficult to prove. A couple having sex behind some bushes in a public park swarming with people, would probably have a defence.0
This discussion has been closed.