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Oh he has questions to answer about his conduct, to be sure. But whether it was stupidly handled he should really be able to contain himself and act like a professional. Waxing lyrical about defending the House, which is a sentiment I do support, in a way that seeks to conflate any poor behaviour he might have with that defence (which I believe is his intent), is, to my mind, laying it on thick.Anazina said:
Not really.kle4 said:
Well uncouth language, particularly mildly uncouth, is not a reason to resign, and it looks like he is playing the martyr. Yes there are those who really want him out, and will look for opportunities to make that happen,. but he's laying it on a bit thick.Tissue_Price said:
Paragraph 4 is exquisitely worded. Very graceless.felix said:Graceless from Bercow as he misses the opportunity to apologise to Andrea Leadsom. Does, though, admit that he called her ‘stupid’ J. Forsyth
Sadly we aren't getting an investigation into other claims of bullying as 2 Labour MPs and 1 Con MP voted it down. He is allowed to continue with his arrogant and boorish behaviour and in doing so brings shame on his office and on Parliament.
https://twitter.com/LOS_Fisher/status/998593386620874752
He has several questions to answer about bullying which are outside the scope of this letter.
On this point, he has a point. It *was* stupidly handled by Grayling et al.
He knows that some people really want him gone, and will seek any opportunity to make that happen. What he is clearly doing in response is trying to make any criticism of him, however justified, appear to be an attack on him merely doing his best to defend the House.
It's deeply cynical.
The answer seems obvious - it is another religion which is controlling the media, and using the other two as scapegoats!TheScreamingEagles said:@leonardocarella: An unexpected twist on an old classic.
https://twitter.com/tomgara/status/9982513606499164170 -
RobD said:
Isn't that what Owen said, that the right new about it for weeks before?rottenborough said:Owen Jones on Lewisham:
"The right knew weeks before (maybe longer) that Heidi Alexander was standing down, giving them far longer to prepare."
https://medium.com/@OwenJones84/what-happened-in-the-selection-battle-for-lewisham-easts-labour-candidate-e8bd3e1ce214
Perhaps the PB brains trust can help me out, but I am pretty sure that we on PB were discussing the strong rumour that she was standing down and going to Khan's office for several weeks before the actual resignation.
Or have I dreamt this?
I'll get my coat....
Perhaps the millennium marxists and kandy-coloured luxury commie kids should read this forum more often...0 -
Indeed so - I think this is the biggest risk to the Tories. We've seen just on here some who will actively vote Corbyn if the Leaving is not to their liking, and while that is extreme to be sure, a small number in the right place just sitting out could be crucial.Yorkcity said:
There could be a large section of conservative leavers , who decide to not bother voting .HYUFD said:If Corbyn is going to become PM it looks like he will have to cobble together a confidence and supply deal with the LDs, the SNP, Plaid, the Greens and maybe even Sinn Fein.
Winning enough Tory voters over to Labour for an overall majority currently looks beyond him
If the eventual deal is not to their taste.0 -
I don’t think it’s purely about hoping that something similar to last time will happen, but rather a general acknowledgement of the unpredictability of politics at this moment in time.
In 2015, we had polls showing us the parties were neck and neck and overestimating LD support (IIRC on the LDs) when the actual result was a Conservative majority and LD decimation. A year prior to the EU referendum, polls were comfortably showing Remain ahead. In 2017, the Tories, as we all know had a twenty point lead over Labour with TMay enjoying a significant lead over Corbyn in personal ratings, with local election results and by elections seemingly backing that picture up.
This year, the polling for London showed Labour doing much better than they actually did. In other words, reading and taking polls too seriously given all that has happened in the last three years does not look to be too wise. Far too much political analysis seems to be too wholly dependent on what the latest polls/polling said, which is why we’ve seen so many erroneous narratives emerge over the last three years.
I don’t see how any potential dissatisfaction with May or Corbyn shows a desperate desire for a return to the kind of centrism that we’ve been used to seeing in the last twenty years or so. Rather, it reflects the obvious: the fact that May and Corbyn simply aren’t very good leaders, and even if you sympathised with their politics, their ability to deliver said vision in a competent manner is seriously unlikely. I think it’s unlikely that leftist purity is putting off voters: leftist purity was there as a characteristic of Corbyn’s Labour in the last GE.0 -
I'm quite amused at the concept of BBC taking ad money.kle4 said:
Oh he has questions to answer about his conduct, to be sure. But whether it was stupidly handled he should really be able to contain himself and act like a professional. Waxing lyrical about defending the House, which is a sentiment I do support, in a way that seeks to conflate any poor behaviour he might have with that defence (which I believe is his intent), is, to my mind, laying it on thick.Anazina said:
Not really.kle4 said:
Well uncouth language, particularly mildly uncouth, is not a reason to resign, and it looks like he is playing the martyr. Yes there are those who really want him out, and will look for opportunities to make that happen,. but he's laying it on a bit thick.Tissue_Price said:
Paragraph 4 is exquisitely worded. Very graceless.felix said:Graceless from Bercow as he misses the opportunity to apologise to Andrea Leadsom. Does, though, admit that he called her ‘stupid’ J. Forsyth
Sadly we aren't getting an investigation into other claims of bullying as 2 Labour MPs and 1 Con MP voted it down. He is allowed to continue with his arrogant and boorish behaviour and in doing so brings shame on his office and on Parliament.
https://twitter.com/LOS_Fisher/status/998593386620874752
He has several questions to answer about bullying which are outside the scope of this letter.
On this point, he has a point. It *was* stupidly handled by Grayling et al.
He knows that some people really want him gone, and will seek any opportunity to make that happen. What he is clearly doing in response is trying to make any criticism of him, however justified, appear to be an attack on him merely doing his best to defend the House.
It's deeply cynical.
The answer seems obvious - it is another religion which is controlling the media, and using the other two as scapegoats!TheScreamingEagles said:@leonardocarella: An unexpected twist on an old classic.
https://twitter.com/tomgara/status/9982513606499164170 -
DecrepitJohnL said:
Not to mention that said balance of payments deficit includes profits from our monopoly utilities -- including our government's subsidies flowing to EU governments, as we discussed on pb the other day.Wulfrun_Phil said:
Given that the UK's entire balance of payments deficit is pretty well accounted for by the trade imbalance with the EU, and that we pay a hefty contribution to the EU budget for the privilege, there was indeed the potential for the UK to take a strong negotiating. But our Government has instead shown a willingness to roll over at every turn and be dictated to by the likes of the Irish Republic (which stands to lose far more than the UK in the event of no deal).williamglenn said:
I don't think anybody is suggesting that's what Leave voters wanted. They wanted to dictate terms to the EU and have the EU accept them because of the need to sell us their cars and prosecco. The Brexit they were sold has failed.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Glenn, I flit from amusement to contempt when people try and claim a vote to leave the EU meant we wanted them to dictate our trade policy without having to pay any heed to our economic interest. It's an intellectually vacant position, a proposition of preposterous proportions, a steaming mound of bullshit, and calling it a Mountain of Wisdom is no more persuasive, and no less wretched, than pretending there was a difference between the Constitution and the Lisbon Treaty.
So the approach to Brexit that many Leave voters favoured hasn't failed, rather it has never been tried.
At the time of the vote I explained as a manufacturer despite being a remainer as with most of my industry I could see a case for leaving but did not expect it to be pursued.
The country is too focussed on consumption and too little on production. This has not changed and if anything is getting worse. A brexit without a focus on production is the worst of all worlds. Crashing pound without the capacity to take advantage of the change in terms of trade.
Today I met with a cost consultant to discuss electricity prices. Unlike consumers who pay almost no green taxes 65% of my electricity bill is not for electricity. The largest companies have stopped buying electricity and make it themselves leaving the rest of industry to pick up the costs of stupid decisions such as Hinkley. The Government does not even understand the problem let alone start to make changes.
The economy is faltering because there is no plan. We stumble along going nowhere.
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Given the alternative is Corbyn? I doubt it and they could be balanced anyway by a significant section of Labour Remainers who decide not to bother voting or who vote LD as Corbyn has not been anti Brexit or pro single market enoughYorkcity said:
There could be a large section of conservative leavers , who decide to not bother voting .HYUFD said:If Corbyn is going to become PM it looks like he will have to cobble together a confidence and supply deal with the LDs, the SNP, Plaid, the Greens and maybe even Sinn Fein.
Winning enough Tory voters over to Labour for an overall majority currently looks beyond him
If the eventual deal is not to their taste.0 -
Why would it matter that the right knew, they have no chance of winning the seat? Oh wait, the internal party right, now I see.rottenborough said:Owen Jones on Lewisham:
"The right knew weeks before (maybe longer) that Heidi Alexander was standing down, giving them far longer to prepare."0 -
The New Labour (War Criminal) branch of the party.kle4 said:
Why would it matter that the right knew, they have no chance of winning the seat? Oh wait, the internal party right, now I see.rottenborough said:Owen Jones on Lewisham:
"The right knew weeks before (maybe longer) that Heidi Alexander was standing down, giving them far longer to prepare."
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Who voted for Corbyn twice!RobD said:
The New Labour (War Criminal) branch of the party.kle4 said:
Why would it matter that the right knew, they have no chance of winning the seat? Oh wait, the internal party right, now I see.rottenborough said:Owen Jones on Lewisham:
"The right knew weeks before (maybe longer) that Heidi Alexander was standing down, giving them far longer to prepare."0 -
It seems to be bollocks and excuse-making. This feels to me like a fair and honest account of what went on:rottenborough said:Owen Jones on Lewisham:
"The right knew weeks before (maybe longer) that Heidi Alexander was standing down, giving them far longer to prepare."
https://medium.com/@OwenJones84/what-happened-in-the-selection-battle-for-lewisham-easts-labour-candidate-e8bd3e1ce214
Perhaps the PB brains trust can help me out, but I am pretty sure that we on PB were discussing the strong rumour that she was standing down and going to Khan's office for several weeks before the actual resignation.
Or have I dreamt this?
https://labourlist.org/2018/05/matt-pound-how-janet-daby-won-the-lewisham-east-selection-race/0 -
Issues concerning the cost of living and inter generational unfairness (especially in relation to housing) is far more a tool that Labour rely on these days than unemployment. Ironically, if the data on the 2017 GE is right, a plurality of working age voters went for Labour, so they don’t seem to be too thankful for all the jobs created by the Tories.MarqueeMark said:
"Tory Brexit" just reminds voters that Labour didn't trust them with a Referendum, did they Ed?williamglenn said:
They think they're combining 1 and 2 by always referring to a "Tory Brexit" as distinct from a "Labour jobs-first Brexit", but that message achieves neither objective.Barnesian said:What can Labour do to reverse this trend to the Tories?
Two things:
1. Distinguish themselves from the Tories on Brexit. Support all the amendments to the EU Withdrawal Bill including supporting the single market. That would have a major impact and attract Remainers back to Labour.
2. Keep hammering away with examples that the Tories are the Nasty party with Mrs May responsible for a lot of the nastiness as Home Secretary. Keep the anti-Tory vote hot and motivated.
What they won't do is change leader which makes 1. above quite difficult but not impossible.
And unemployment has become a flaccid tool in Labour's armoury. Because the Tories have created record numbers of jobs. Tories = Jobs Wreckers just doesn't resonate.0 -
She's not sound on Europe, being a fan of the CU and SM. Hence the Momentum/Unite bods that were parachuted into the selection.kle4 said:
Who voted for Corbyn twice!RobD said:
The New Labour (War Criminal) branch of the party.kle4 said:
Why would it matter that the right knew, they have no chance of winning the seat? Oh wait, the internal party right, now I see.rottenborough said:Owen Jones on Lewisham:
"The right knew weeks before (maybe longer) that Heidi Alexander was standing down, giving them far longer to prepare."0 -
We Tories are used to the voters being ungrateful buggers!The_Apocalypse said:
Issues concerning the cost of living and inter generational unfairness (especially in relation to housing) is far more a tool that Labour rely on these days than unemployment. Ironically, if the data on the 2017 GE is right, a plurality of working age voters went for Labour, so they don’t seem to be too thankful for all the jobs created by the Tories.MarqueeMark said:
"Tory Brexit" just reminds voters that Labour didn't trust them with a Referendum, did they Ed?williamglenn said:
They think they're combining 1 and 2 by always referring to a "Tory Brexit" as distinct from a "Labour jobs-first Brexit", but that message achieves neither objective.Barnesian said:What can Labour do to reverse this trend to the Tories?
Two things:
1. Distinguish themselves from the Tories on Brexit. Support all the amendments to the EU Withdrawal Bill including supporting the single market. That would have a major impact and attract Remainers back to Labour.
2. Keep hammering away with examples that the Tories are the Nasty party with Mrs May responsible for a lot of the nastiness as Home Secretary. Keep the anti-Tory vote hot and motivated.
What they won't do is change leader which makes 1. above quite difficult but not impossible.
And unemployment has become a flaccid tool in Labour's armoury. Because the Tories have created record numbers of jobs. Tories = Jobs Wreckers just doesn't resonate.0 -
I know all parties are coalitions and all that, but just how many internal groups do they need? It's hard to keep them all straight.rottenborough said:Don't these people know that Hitler detested Bolsheviks?
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/campaign-for-labour-party-democracy-group-votes-to-oppose-ken-livingstones-expulsion-over-alleged-anti-semitism_uk_5b02a8a7e4b0a046186dfdcb?hpm
Honestly the Ken thing seems like an open and shut case purely on a matter of process. The story says he was suspended for specific remarks, which he has repeated, shown no remorse for and so on. If the remarks were suspense worthy then and he persists in making them, expulsion surely should follow.
(Of course plenty in the party don't think they were suspense worthy then, but the leadership seem to agree they were)0 -
I don’t know why Owen Jones/or any Corbynista is complaining about Janet Daby. She voted for Corbyn twice. Someone who votes for him not once but twice is unlikely to be the reincarnation of John Woodcock, Chris Leslie or Chuka Umunna. The issue appears to be that Daby does not entirely worship Corbyn sufficiently for his acolytes, and to that I say politics should not be a personality cult and they need to get over it.0
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Yes , I was questioning the certainty of a sitting Pm , which is currently Conservative debating with the Labour leader.TheScreamingEagles said:
There were 3 debates in 2010 featuring Brown, Cameron, and Clegg, the first debate led to the Cleggasm.Yorkcity said:
Apologies TSE , can not remember them.TheScreamingEagles said:
Cameron did four debates.Yorkcity said:
Yes I agree,Mike in the header seems certain a Conservative leader will appear in TV debates with the Labour one.kle4 said:Too much of LAB thinking, it appears, is based on the hope that what happened last time will also occur next.
Yep. In fairness, plenty of complacency to be found. Labour that polls won't matter, as they didn't last time (even if only to ensure a decent result, if still second), and the Tories that there's no way Corbyn has a similar campaign bump again.
I have my doubts , prime minister's are usualy reluctant, Major Blair never did .
Cameron insisted everyone was there, and only did one.
Brown did from a weak position.
May did not even consider it.
Hard to see , why next time , it is so certain.
He did not do one directly with the Loto Ed Milliband did he ?
In 2015 there was big one all in featuring Cameron with Miliband, Clegg, and Farage, plus Natalie Bennett, Leanne Wood, Nicola Sturgeon, and Uncle Tom Cobley from the minor/regional parties
In 2010 , Cameron was in opposition and keen on debates.
He was very reluctant in 2015 as PM only one , with everyone been there.0 -
I'd go with days - was doing the rounds just before the local elections.rottenborough said:Owen Jones on Lewisham:
"The right knew weeks before (maybe longer) that Heidi Alexander was standing down, giving them far longer to prepare."
https://medium.com/@OwenJones84/what-happened-in-the-selection-battle-for-lewisham-easts-labour-candidate-e8bd3e1ce214
Perhaps the PB brains trust can help me out, but I am pretty sure that we on PB were discussing the strong rumour that she was standing down and going to Khan's office for several weeks before the actual resignation.
Or have I dreamt this?0 -
by the best english groupSunil_Prasannan said:
The best England song ever!TheScreamingEagles said:If you're experiencing a Blue Monday then watch this, it will cheer up your mood (although make you feel very old)
https://twitter.com/TomBlenkinsop/status/9985983087876382720 -
Corbyn is what the Conservatives are relying on.HYUFD said:
Given the alternative is Corbyn? I doubt it and they could be balanced anyway by a significant section of Labour Remainers who decide not to bother voting or who vote LD as Corbyn has not been anti Brexit or pro single market enoughYorkcity said:
There could be a large section of conservative leavers , who decide to not bother voting .HYUFD said:If Corbyn is going to become PM it looks like he will have to cobble together a confidence and supply deal with the LDs, the SNP, Plaid, the Greens and maybe even Sinn Fein.
Winning enough Tory voters over to Labour for an overall majority currently looks beyond him
If the eventual deal is not to their taste.
Surely they will be preparing for if the situation changes, as it could.0 -
Even the three you list vote with Corbyn most of the time, you'd think he was getting a serial troublemaker as a new MP, not one who publicly backed him more than once, it's bizarre, even if her views on Europe do not match his stance.The_Apocalypse said:I don’t know why Owen Jones/or any Corbynista is complaining about Janet Daby. She voted for Corbyn twice. Someone who votes for him not once but twice is unlikely to be the reincarnation of John Woodcock, Chris Leslie or Chuka Umunna. The issue appears to be that Daby does not entirely worship Corbyn sufficiently for his acolytes, and to that I say politics should not be a personality cult and they need to get over it.
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Mr. Scrapheap, best English group is Queen.0
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......And in other news Rosie Boycott thinks Meghan has set back feminism by decades. The idea that 'the way out of the ghetto is to 'land' a prince is not feminism' says Rosie. She's always been good value. One of the great products of Cheltenham Ladies College where by chance I met my first girlfriend.
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Well if it's good enough for you then it's good enough for Meghan!Roger said:......And in other news Rosie Boycott thinks Meghan has set back feminism for decades. The idea that the way out of the ghetto is to 'land' a prince is not feminism says Rosie. She's always been good value. One of the great products of Cheltenham Ladies College where by chance I met my first girlfriend!
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We'll certainly the best ever England World cup song.Scrapheap_as_was said:
by the best english groupSunil_Prasannan said:
The best England song ever!TheScreamingEagles said:If you're experiencing a Blue Monday then watch this, it will cheer up your mood (although make you feel very old)
https://twitter.com/TomBlenkinsop/status/998598308787638272
John Barnes did well in that song to.
Getting so close to winning the 1990 , world cup , was an exciting time.0 -
Would this be the same Janet Daby who voted for Corbo in both leadership elections?RobD said:
The New Labour (War Criminal) branch of the party.kle4 said:
Why would it matter that the right knew, they have no chance of winning the seat? Oh wait, the internal party right, now I see.rottenborough said:Owen Jones on Lewisham:
"The right knew weeks before (maybe longer) that Heidi Alexander was standing down, giving them far longer to prepare."
It would appear to be.0 -
I'm struggling to understand WTF has happened to Ken Livingstone. He was a good mayor of London with many achievements, most notably having the courage to introduce a congestion charge over Blair's dead body, setting up TfL and of course the Olympics. He did not scare business and many Tories voted for him in 2000 and 2004 (I was one of them, and to this day he's the only Labour candidate I've ever voted for). In those elections he won the likes of Richmond and Kingston, full of liberal Tory voters, handsomely.kle4 said:
I know all parties are coalitions and all that, but just how many internal groups do they need? It's hard to keep them all straight.rottenborough said:Don't these people know that Hitler detested Bolsheviks?
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/campaign-for-labour-party-democracy-group-votes-to-oppose-ken-livingstones-expulsion-over-alleged-anti-semitism_uk_5b02a8a7e4b0a046186dfdcb?hpm
Honestly the Ken thing seems like an open and shut case purely on a matter of process. The story says he was suspended for specific remarks, which he has repeated, shown no remorse for and so on. If the remarks were suspense worthy then and he persists in making them, expulsion surely should follow.
(Of course plenty in the party don't think they were suspense worthy then, but the leadership seem to agree they were)
Seems like in the Corbyn era he's shifted back to the old loony left GLC Ken, with the added feature of being obsessed with Hitler and Jews.0 -
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I imagine a lot of people are asking themselves if Ken was always this terrible, or if they never noticed it before.HHemmelig said:
I'm struggling to understand WTF has happened to Ken Livingstone. He was a good mayor of London with many achievements, most notably having the courage to introduce a congestion charge over Blair's dead body, setting up TfL and of course the Olympics. He did not scare business and many Tories voted for him in 2000 and 2004 (I was one of them, and to this day he's the only Labour candidate I've ever voted for). In those elections he won the likes of Richmond and Kingston, full of liberal Tory voters, handsomely.kle4 said:
I know all parties are coalitions and all that, but just how many internal groups do they need? It's hard to keep them all straight.rottenborough said:Don't these people know that Hitler detested Bolsheviks?
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/campaign-for-labour-party-democracy-group-votes-to-oppose-ken-livingstones-expulsion-over-alleged-anti-semitism_uk_5b02a8a7e4b0a046186dfdcb?hpm
Honestly the Ken thing seems like an open and shut case purely on a matter of process. The story says he was suspended for specific remarks, which he has repeated, shown no remorse for and so on. If the remarks were suspense worthy then and he persists in making them, expulsion surely should follow.
(Of course plenty in the party don't think they were suspense worthy then, but the leadership seem to agree they were)
Seems like in the Corbyn era he's shifted back to the old loony left GLC Ken, with the added feature of being obsessed with Hitler and Jews.0 -
Ken Livingstone has resigned the Labour party. To spend less time talking about Hitler?0
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And on that bombshell, here's another one:
https://twitter.com/CityPolice/status/998594962790014977
If I hear a loud bang tonight, I'll know what happened.0 -
Something else Corbyn has in common with Tony BlairAlastairMeeks said:0 -
Ken is resigning from the Labour Party.0
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http://kenlivingstone.net/2018/05/statement-from-ken-livingstone/Plank said:Ken Livingstone has resigned the Labour party. To spend less time talking about Hitler?
I also recognise that the way I made a historical argument has caused offence and upset in the Jewish community. I am truly sorry for that.
Sure you are Ken, that's why you repeated it over and over again for years.
That right there, is an outright stinking lie0 -
That doesn't read like a statement drafted by Ken Livingstone. I wonder who dictated it to him and what the quid pro quo is.kle4 said:
http://kenlivingstone.net/2018/05/statement-from-ken-livingstone/Plank said:Ken Livingstone has resigned the Labour party. To spend less time talking about Hitler?
I also recognise that the way I made a historical argument has caused offence and upset in the Jewish community. I am truly sorry for that.
Sure you are Ken, that's why you repeated it over and over again for years.
That right there, is an outright stinking lie0 -
Pretty naiive if Ken thinks this will shield Corbyn any - he'll just get asked why Ken had to quit, rather than having been dealt with a long time ago.0
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Daby is likely to be much more closer to the views of Labour Party members and voters on Brexit than Corbyn is!kle4 said:
Even the three you list vote with Corbyn most of the time, you'd think he was getting a serial troublemaker as a new MP, not one who publicly backed him more than once, it's bizarre, even if her views on Europe do not match his stance.The_Apocalypse said:I don’t know why Owen Jones/or any Corbynista is complaining about Janet Daby. She voted for Corbyn twice. Someone who votes for him not once but twice is unlikely to be the reincarnation of John Woodcock, Chris Leslie or Chuka Umunna. The issue appears to be that Daby does not entirely worship Corbyn sufficiently for his acolytes, and to that I say politics should not be a personality cult and they need to get over it.
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0
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He has grown as a leader since then - he's probably a lot more willing to bend his principles to defend the party image.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
David Prescott ?AlastairMeeks said:
That doesn't read like a statement drafted by Ken Livingstone. I wonder who dictated it to him and what the quid pro quo is.kle4 said:
http://kenlivingstone.net/2018/05/statement-from-ken-livingstone/Plank said:Ken Livingstone has resigned the Labour party. To spend less time talking about Hitler?
I also recognise that the way I made a historical argument has caused offence and upset in the Jewish community. I am truly sorry for that.
Sure you are Ken, that's why you repeated it over and over again for years.
That right there, is an outright stinking lie
Cash ?0 -
Livingstone resigns:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-441962980 -
She was never in the ghetto and even if she was, landing 50000 $ a show on tv is pretty good evidence of having escaped from it. The Prince is the payoff for, not the mechanism of, escape.Roger said:......And in other news Rosie Boycott thinks Meghan has set back feminism by decades. The idea that 'the way out of the ghetto is to 'land' a prince is not feminism' says Rosie. She's always been good value. One of the great products of Cheltenham Ladies College where by chance I met my first girlfriend.
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How long can Falconer hang on?Morris_Dancer said:Livingstone resigns:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-441962980 -
“You know who else quit at the end?”Morris_Dancer said:Livingstone resigns:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-441962980 -
Is Rosie Boycott any relation to the Yorkshire cricket full tosser ?!? .... seems likely as he too regularly spouts utter verbal diarrhoea on demand.Roger said:......And in other news Rosie Boycott thinks Meghan has set back feminism by decades. The idea that 'the way out of the ghetto is to 'land' a prince is not feminism' says Rosie. She's always been good value. One of the great products of Cheltenham Ladies College where by chance I met my first girlfriend.
I note that the US viewing figures for our little royal do were off the scale for such an event - higher than for Wills and Kate and Chuck and Di.0 -
@rcs1000
The problem with comments not appearing unless you are signed in is still happening. On this thread:
Not signed in: 110
Signed in 147 (a moment later).
Makes it hard for non-account holders to follow.
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One of the biggest negatives for TMay a year ago was her refusal to take part in the TV debate. Arguably it cost the party its majority. Remember how badly it was received when Amder Rudd went in her place.Yorkcity said:
Yes , I was questioning the certainty of a sitting Pm , which is currently Conservative debating with the Labour leader.TheScreamingEagles said:
There were 3 debates in 2010 featuring Brown, Cameron, and Clegg, the first debate led to the Cleggasm.Yorkcity said:
Apologies TSE , can not remember them.TheScreamingEagles said:
Cameron did four debates.Yorkcity said:
Yes I agree,Mike in the header seems certain a Conservative leader will appear in TV debates with the Labour one.kle4 said:Too much of LAB thinking, it appears, is based on the hope that what happened last time will also occur next.
Yep. In fairness, plenty of complacency to be found. Labour that polls won't matter, as they didn't last time (even if only to ensure a decent result, if still second), and the Tories that there's no way Corbyn has a similar campaign bump again.
I have my doubts , prime minister's are usualy reluctant, Major Blair never did .
Cameron insisted everyone was there, and only did one.
Brown did from a weak position.
May did not even consider it.
Hard to see , why next time , it is so certain.
He did not do one directly with the Loto Ed Milliband did he ?
In 2015 there was big one all in featuring Cameron with Miliband, Clegg, and Farage, plus Natalie Bennett, Leanne Wood, Nicola Sturgeon, and Uncle Tom Cobley from the minor/regional parties
In 2010 , Cameron was in opposition and keen on debates.
He was very reluctant in 2015 as PM only one , with everyone been there.0 -
Since Ken is still going to be supporting Labour and doing all he can to get Corbyn elected PM, will candidates be allowed to continue to campaign with him?0
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Barclays have drawn first blood against the SFO today it seems. If this is a sign of things to come then heads need to roll at the SFO. They will have unnecessarily damaged the reputation of one of our largest and most successful companies on what feels like a personal vendetta against banking.0
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Meghan Markle started off middle class and through hard work and professionalism reached a very wealthy status before she even met Harry.Tissue_Price said:
Well if it's good enough for you then it's good enough for Meghan!Roger said:......And in other news Rosie Boycott thinks Meghan has set back feminism for decades. The idea that the way out of the ghetto is to 'land' a prince is not feminism says Rosie. She's always been good value. One of the great products of Cheltenham Ladies College where by chance I met my first girlfriend!
0 -
Surely it is that he goes before he is sacked, via the whisky and revolver route rather than the guardhouse.AlastairMeeks said:
That doesn't read like a statement drafted by Ken Livingstone. I wonder who dictated it to him and what the quid pro quo is.kle4 said:
http://kenlivingstone.net/2018/05/statement-from-ken-livingstone/Plank said:Ken Livingstone has resigned the Labour party. To spend less time talking about Hitler?
I also recognise that the way I made a historical argument has caused offence and upset in the Jewish community. I am truly sorry for that.
Sure you are Ken, that's why you repeated it over and over again for years.
That right there, is an outright stinking lie
Sad, but inevitable with his anti-semitic outbursts. Ken's rainbow coalition strategy worked well for Labour in their day. Many of the ideas seen as Looney Left are now unremarkeable, like a gay man and his husband as guests at a Royal wedding.0 -
Absolutely, her ducking the debate was a disaster, though the election was already lost IMO. The dementia tax was absolutely toxic and destroyed any chance we had of getting a majority.MikeSmithson said:
One of the biggest negatives for TMay a year ago was her refusal to take part in the TV debate. Arguably it cost the party its majority. Remember how badly it was received when Amder Rudd went in her place.Yorkcity said:
Yes , I was questioning the certainty of a sitting Pm , which is currently Conservative debating with the Labour leader.TheScreamingEagles said:
There were 3 debates in 2010 featuring Brown, Cameron, and Clegg, the first debate led to the Cleggasm.Yorkcity said:
Apologies TSE , can not remember them.TheScreamingEagles said:
Cameron did four debates.Yorkcity said:
Yes I agree,Mike in the header seems certain a Conservative leader will appear in TV debates with the Labour one.kle4 said:Too much of LAB thinking, it appears, is based on the hope that what happened last time will also occur next.
Yep. In fairness, plenty of complacency to be found. Labour that polls won't matter, as they didn't last time (even if only to ensure a decent result, if still second), and the Tories that there's no way Corbyn has a similar campaign bump again.
I have my doubts , prime minister's are usualy reluctant, Major Blair never did .
Cameron insisted everyone was there, and only did one.
Brown did from a weak position.
May did not even consider it.
Hard to see , why next time , it is so certain.
He did not do one directly with the Loto Ed Milliband did he ?
In 2015 there was big one all in featuring Cameron with Miliband, Clegg, and Farage, plus Natalie Bennett, Leanne Wood, Nicola Sturgeon, and Uncle Tom Cobley from the minor/regional parties
In 2010 , Cameron was in opposition and keen on debates.
He was very reluctant in 2015 as PM only one , with everyone been there.0 -
There are a lot of middle of the road, working class Leavers who have no real affiliation to the Tory Party.HYUFD said:
Given the alternative is Corbyn? I doubt it and they could be balanced anyway by a significant section of Labour Remainers who decide not to bother voting or who vote LD as Corbyn has not been anti Brexit or pro single market enoughYorkcity said:
There could be a large section of conservative leavers , who decide to not bother voting .HYUFD said:If Corbyn is going to become PM it looks like he will have to cobble together a confidence and supply deal with the LDs, the SNP, Plaid, the Greens and maybe even Sinn Fein.
Winning enough Tory voters over to Labour for an overall majority currently looks beyond him
If the eventual deal is not to their taste.0 -
It's occasionally happening to me when I'm signed in. Perhaps PB thinks the posts are too awesome for lil' old me ...MarkHopkins said:
@rcs1000
The problem with comments not appearing unless you are signed in is still happening. On this thread:
Not signed in: 110
Signed in 147 (a moment later).
Makes it hard for non-account holders to follow.
0 -
He could have been all new labour and resigned last Saturday at midday.Foxy said:
Surely it is that he goes before he is sacked, via the whisky and revolver route rather than the guardhouse.AlastairMeeks said:
That doesn't read like a statement drafted by Ken Livingstone. I wonder who dictated it to him and what the quid pro quo is.kle4 said:
http://kenlivingstone.net/2018/05/statement-from-ken-livingstone/Plank said:Ken Livingstone has resigned the Labour party. To spend less time talking about Hitler?
I also recognise that the way I made a historical argument has caused offence and upset in the Jewish community. I am truly sorry for that.
Sure you are Ken, that's why you repeated it over and over again for years.
That right there, is an outright stinking lie
Sad, but inevitable with his anti-semitic outbursts. Ken's rainbow coalition strategy worked well for Labour in their day. Many of the ideas seen as Looney Left are now unremarkeable, like a gay man and his husband as guests at a Royal wedding.0 -
Unlikely given the current Labour membership and the stubbornness of Corbyn and McDonnell and certainly not before the next general electionYorkcity said:
Corbyn is what the Conservatives are relying on.HYUFD said:
Given the alternative is Corbyn? I doubt it and they could be balanced anyway by a significant section of Labour Remainers who decide not to bother voting or who vote LD as Corbyn has not been anti Brexit or pro single market enoughYorkcity said:
There could be a large section of conservative leavers , who decide to not bother voting .HYUFD said:If Corbyn is going to become PM it looks like he will have to cobble together a confidence and supply deal with the LDs, the SNP, Plaid, the Greens and maybe even Sinn Fein.
Winning enough Tory voters over to Labour for an overall majority currently looks beyond him
If the eventual deal is not to their taste.
Surely they will be preparing for if the situation changes, as it could.0 -
Most of whom did not vote Tory at the last general election eitherElliot said:
There are a lot of middle of the road, working class Leavers who have no real affiliation to the Tory Party.HYUFD said:
Given the alternative is Corbyn? I doubt it and they could be balanced anyway by a significant section of Labour Remainers who decide not to bother voting or who vote LD as Corbyn has not been anti Brexit or pro single market enoughYorkcity said:
There could be a large section of conservative leavers , who decide to not bother voting .HYUFD said:If Corbyn is going to become PM it looks like he will have to cobble together a confidence and supply deal with the LDs, the SNP, Plaid, the Greens and maybe even Sinn Fein.
Winning enough Tory voters over to Labour for an overall majority currently looks beyond him
If the eventual deal is not to their taste.0 -
I agree Mike. The Conservative campaign was risk adverse and about as much use as a Ken Livingstone endorsement for a Jewish pork butcher.MikeSmithson said:One of the biggest negatives for TMay a year ago was her refusal to take part in the TV debate. Arguably it cost the party its majority. Remember how badly it was received when Amder Rudd went in her place.
That said perhaps the Tories felt that a debate appearance by Theresa May would have confused the audience who would have been unlikely to determine what was more wooden - the stage or the Prime Minister.0 -
It is important that Ken takes things one goose-step at a time.Morris_Dancer said:Livingstone resigns:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-441962980 -
Yes that is very true , sending someone in your place.Seems worse than not agreeing to them at all.MikeSmithson said:
One of the biggest negatives for TMay a year ago was her refusal to take part in the TV debate. Arguably it cost the party its majority. Remember how badly it was received when Amder Rudd went in her place.Yorkcity said:
Yes , I was questioning the certainty of a sitting Pm , which is currently Conservative debating with the Labour leader.TheScreamingEagles said:
There were 3 debates in 2010 featuring Brown, Cameron, and Clegg, the first debate led to the Cleggasm.Yorkcity said:
Apologies TSE , can not remember them.TheScreamingEagles said:
Cameron did four debates.Yorkcity said:
Yes I agree,Mike in the header seems certain a Conservative leader will appear in TV debates with the Labour one.kle4 said:Too much of LAB thinking, it appears, is based on the hope that what happened last time will also occur next.
Yep. In fairness, plenty of complacency to be found. Labour that polls won't matter, as they didn't last time (even if only to ensure a decent result, if still second), and the Tories that there's no way Corbyn has a similar campaign bump again.
I have my doubts , prime minister's are usualy reluctant, Major Blair never did .
Cameron insisted everyone was there, and only did one.
Brown did from a weak position.
May did not even consider it.
Hard to see , why next time , it is so certain.
He did not do one directly with the Loto Ed Milliband did he ?
In 2015 there was big one all in featuring Cameron with Miliband, Clegg, and Farage, plus Natalie Bennett, Leanne Wood, Nicola Sturgeon, and Uncle Tom Cobley from the minor/regional parties
In 2010 , Cameron was in opposition and keen on debates.
He was very reluctant in 2015 as PM only one , with everyone been there.0 -
Livingstone is no longer Mayor or an MP or even a local councillor or member of the GLA, given he will no doubt still vote Labour what is the significance of this? Ken will no longer be in charge of the vegan hot dogs at his local Labour branch's summer fete?0
-
All the more so given that the Tories started out running a presidential campaign all around brand May.MikeSmithson said:
One of the biggest negatives for TMay a year ago was her refusal to take part in the TV debate. Arguably it cost the party its majority. Remember how badly it was received when Amder Rudd went in her place.Yorkcity said:
Yes , I was questioning the certainty of a sitting Pm , which is currently Conservative debating with the Labour leader.TheScreamingEagles said:
There were 3 debates in 2010 featuring Brown, Cameron, and Clegg, the first debate led to the Cleggasm.Yorkcity said:
Apologies TSE , can not remember them.TheScreamingEagles said:
Cameron did four debates.Yorkcity said:
Yes I agree,Mike in the header seems certain a Conservative leader will appear in TV debates with the Labour one.kle4 said:Too much of LAB thinking, it appears, is based on the hope that what happened last time will also occur next.
Yep. In fairness, plenty of complacency to be found. Labour that polls won't matter, as they didn't last time (even if only to ensure a decent result, if still second), and the Tories that there's no way Corbyn has a similar campaign bump again.
I have my doubts , prime minister's are usualy reluctant, Major Blair never did .
Cameron insisted everyone was there, and only did one.
Brown did from a weak position.
May did not even consider it.
Hard to see , why next time , it is so certain.
He did not do one directly with the Loto Ed Milliband did he ?
In 2015 there was big one all in featuring Cameron with Miliband, Clegg, and Farage, plus Natalie Bennett, Leanne Wood, Nicola Sturgeon, and Uncle Tom Cobley from the minor/regional parties
In 2010 , Cameron was in opposition and keen on debates.
He was very reluctant in 2015 as PM only one , with everyone been there.0 -
Dr. Foxy, he didn't take the whisky and revolver route, though. He drank the whisky, leapt out of the window, and may well return to the building when he thinks nobody's watching.0
-
So same as Amber Rudd?Morris_Dancer said:Dr. Foxy, he didn't take the whisky and revolver route, though. He drank the whisky, leapt out of the window, and may well return to the building when he thinks nobody's watching.
0 -
Rosie was the daughter of an army major Geoffrey the son of a colliery worker. Rosie went on to start the feminist mag Spare Rib Geoffrey became the dullest cricketer ever to grace Lords. Rosie campaigned to legalise cannabis. Geoffrey doesn't know what cannabis is. Geoffrey was accused of beating up his girlfriend. Rosie edited the Indpendent.......JackW said:
Is Rosie Boycott any relation to the Yorkshire cricket full tosser ?!? .... seems likely as he too regularly spouts utter verbal diarrhoea on demand.Roger said:......And in other news Rosie Boycott thinks Meghan has set back feminism by decades. The idea that 'the way out of the ghetto is to 'land' a prince is not feminism' says Rosie. She's always been good value. One of the great products of Cheltenham Ladies College where by chance I met my first girlfriend.
I note that the US viewing figures for our little royal do were off the scale for such an event - higher than for Wills and Kate and Chuck and Di.
I know genealogy is your specialism. How am I doing?0 -
Dr. Foxy, well, not really. Rudd's still an MP. Livingstone wasn't. Rudd left the Cabinet. Livingstone didn't. And one suspects a Jewish dinner party would be gladder of Rudd's presence.
Anyway, the time for me to sod off has arrived.0 -
But not perhaps a West IndiN dinner party...Morris_Dancer said:Dr. Foxy, well, not really. Rudd's still an MP. Livingstone wasn't. Rudd left the Cabinet. Livingstone didn't. And one suspects a Jewish dinner party would be gladder of Rudd's presence.
Anyway, the time for me to sod off has arrived.0 -
The idea that loony left politics in 1980s London mostly revolved around taking a brave and forward-looking stand on gay rights and other totemic social issues is totally and utterly wrong and you know that very well. I might expect a fresh faced 18 year old Momentum activist to advance such a view, but not someone such as yourself easily old enough to remember the 80s.Foxy said:Many of the ideas seen as Looney Left are now unremarkeable, like a gay man and his husband as guests at a Royal wedding.
The reason the loony left were woefully unpopular, even in boroughs like Lambeth and Lewisham where Labour now hold nearly all the council seats, is quite simply that such councils hiked up the rates to sky high levels, in the secure knowledge that only a minority of mostly Tory-voting residents had to pay rates. This led of course first to rate capping, through the abolition of the GLC, and eventually to the disaster of the poll tax.
You will recall that the GLC almost failed to set a legal budget; Livingstone caving on this caused the rift between McDonnell (chairman of GLC finance ctte at the time) and Livingstone which persists to this day.0 -
I recommend you should personally boycott the subject ....Roger said:
Rosie was the daughter of an army major Geoffrey the son of a colliery worker. Rosie went on to start the feminist mag Spare Rib Geoffrey became the dullest cricketer ever to grace Lords. Rosie campaigned to legalise cannabis. Geoffrey doesn't know what cannabis is. Geoffrey was accused of beating up his girlfriend. Rosie edited the Indpendent.......JackW said:
Is Rosie Boycott any relation to the Yorkshire cricket full tosser ?!? .... seems likely as he too regularly spouts utter verbal diarrhoea on demand.Roger said:......And in other news Rosie Boycott thinks Meghan has set back feminism by decades. The idea that 'the way out of the ghetto is to 'land' a prince is not feminism' says Rosie. She's always been good value. One of the great products of Cheltenham Ladies College where by chance I met my first girlfriend.
I note that the US viewing figures for our little royal do were off the scale for such an event - higher than for Wills and Kate and Chuck and Di.
I know genealogy is your specialism. How am I doing?0 -
I thought she was in the Leave camp, if Clegg's comments are anything to go by.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
FPT- my tactic on the Irish referendum will be to stick £20 on “No” at the last minute.
Yes, it could be a landslide - just as it was for gay marriage - but I also smell the liberal MSM and the talking heads bigging up the progressive narrative here, just as they did for Hillary and Remain. Abortion is arguably a more complicated moral issue than what gender your spouse is.
I remain to be convinced they’ve learnt any lessons from that.0 -
I'd say one of the 'most successful' is debatable.MaxPB said:Barclays have drawn first blood against the SFO today it seems. If this is a sign of things to come then heads need to roll at the SFO. They will have unnecessarily damaged the reputation of one of our largest and most successful companies on what feels like a personal vendetta against banking.
0 -
FPT - I’m struggling to see how that Jesse Norman proposal for the M20 is anything more than an enhanced Operation Stack, which takes way more than just two motorway junctions of length, but I haven’t read the detail.0
-
I don't think that was the point Rosie was making. My interpretation was that the vast majority of women can't meet and marry a prince so to suggest it's an aspiration isn't something a self proclaimed feminist should be doing. But she's an old fashioned lefty so a preditable reaction..Ishmael_Z said:
She was never in the ghetto and even if she was, landing 50000 $ a show on tv is pretty good evidence of having escaped from it. The Prince is the payoff for, not the mechanism of, escape.Roger said:......And in other news Rosie Boycott thinks Meghan has set back feminism by decades. The idea that 'the way out of the ghetto is to 'land' a prince is not feminism' says Rosie. She's always been good value. One of the great products of Cheltenham Ladies College where by chance I met my first girlfriend.
If you found yourself with Jeremy in the privacy of a sleeping bag I'm sure he'd say the same0 -
Yes, she probably met him because she was a celebrity. I don't doubt she worked hard in her acting career, and that is what "got her out of the ghetto".Roger said:
I don't think that was the point Rosie was making. My interpretation was that the vast majority of women can't meet and marry a prince so to suggest it's an aspiration isn't something a self proclaimed feminist should be doing. But she's an old fashioned lefty so a preditable reaction..Ishmael_Z said:
She was never in the ghetto and even if she was, landing 50000 $ a show on tv is pretty good evidence of having escaped from it. The Prince is the payoff for, not the mechanism of, escape.Roger said:......And in other news Rosie Boycott thinks Meghan has set back feminism by decades. The idea that 'the way out of the ghetto is to 'land' a prince is not feminism' says Rosie. She's always been good value. One of the great products of Cheltenham Ladies College where by chance I met my first girlfriend.
If you found yourself with Jeremy in the privacy of a sleeping bag I'm sure he'd say the same-1 -
She was wearing Peter Bone’s garish GO colours on Saturday.RobD said:
I thought she was in the Leave camp, if Clegg's comments are anything to go by.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Isn't the outfit on the left actually a light yellow green? Definitely not gold.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Ministers should make sure Brexit properly benefits Scotland amid potential complacency over the possibility of another independence referendum, the Conservative leader in the country, Ruth Davidson, has argued.
Independence nailed on it seems.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/may/21/brexit-must-benefit-scotland-to-avoid-complacency-over-independence0 -
How on Earth do you think the Tories got to 42% of the vote?HYUFD said:
Most of whom did not vote Tory at the last general election eitherElliot said:
There are a lot of middle of the road, working class Leavers who have no real affiliation to the Tory Party.HYUFD said:
Given the alternative is Corbyn? I doubt it and they could be balanced anyway by a significant section of Labour Remainers who decide not to bother voting or who vote LD as Corbyn has not been anti Brexit or pro single market enoughYorkcity said:
There could be a large section of conservative leavers , who decide to not bother voting .HYUFD said:If Corbyn is going to become PM it looks like he will have to cobble together a confidence and supply deal with the LDs, the SNP, Plaid, the Greens and maybe even Sinn Fein.
Winning enough Tory voters over to Labour for an overall majority currently looks beyond him
If the eventual deal is not to their taste.0 -
Ok. That rules out all royal brides. But of recent uk royal brides Meghan has better credentials than posh university totty, posh too dim for university totty, and horse faced adulteress.Roger said:
I don't think that was the point Rosie was making. My interpretation was that the vast majority of women can't meet and marry a prince so to suggest it's an aspiration isn't something a self proclaimed feminist should be doing. But she's an old fashioned lefty so a preditable reaction..Ishmael_Z said:
She was never in the ghetto and even if she was, landing 50000 $ a show on tv is pretty good evidence of having escaped from it. The Prince is the payoff for, not the mechanism of, escape.Roger said:......And in other news Rosie Boycott thinks Meghan has set back feminism by decades. The idea that 'the way out of the ghetto is to 'land' a prince is not feminism' says Rosie. She's always been good value. One of the great products of Cheltenham Ladies College where by chance I met my first girlfriend.
If you found yourself with Jeremy in the privacy of a sleeping bag I'm sure he'd say the same0 -
A peerage? He was a good mayor and is clearly 'a man more sinned against than sinning'.AlastairMeeks said:
That doesn't read like a statement drafted by Ken Livingstone. I wonder who dictated it to him and what the quid pro quo is.kle4 said:
http://kenlivingstone.net/2018/05/statement-from-ken-livingstone/Plank said:Ken Livingstone has resigned the Labour party. To spend less time talking about Hitler?
I also recognise that the way I made a historical argument has caused offence and upset in the Jewish community. I am truly sorry for that.
Sure you are Ken, that's why you repeated it over and over again for years.
That right there, is an outright stinking lie0 -
That's clear is it?Roger said:
A peerage? He was a good mayor and is clearly 'a man more sinned against than sinning'.AlastairMeeks said:
That doesn't read like a statement drafted by Ken Livingstone. I wonder who dictated it to him and what the quid pro quo is.kle4 said:
http://kenlivingstone.net/2018/05/statement-from-ken-livingstone/Plank said:Ken Livingstone has resigned the Labour party. To spend less time talking about Hitler?
I also recognise that the way I made a historical argument has caused offence and upset in the Jewish community. I am truly sorry for that.
Sure you are Ken, that's why you repeated it over and over again for years.
That right there, is an outright stinking lie0 -
I call that colour "revolting lime green"Elliot said:
Isn't the outfit on the left actually a light yellow green? Definitely not gold.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
The negative effects of prohibition are expanding into the provinces:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-44127068
In a world where low skilled teenagers have worse and worse prospects the attraction of easy money from the drug trade is just too much. No other criminal activity gets such returns for such low investment. Take the money out of it and the organised crime collapses, as we saw with the American mafia.0 -
The quid pro quo will be the termination of the disciplinary proceedings.AlastairMeeks said:
That doesn't read like a statement drafted by Ken Livingstone. I wonder who dictated it to him and what the quid pro quo is.kle4 said:
http://kenlivingstone.net/2018/05/statement-from-ken-livingstone/Plank said:Ken Livingstone has resigned the Labour party. To spend less time talking about Hitler?
I also recognise that the way I made a historical argument has caused offence and upset in the Jewish community. I am truly sorry for that.
Sure you are Ken, that's why you repeated it over and over again for years.
That right there, is an outright stinking lie0 -
Given that Gove doesn’t do anything without it being part of a cunning plan, what is he up to here and why has Ruth Davidson chosen to get involved?FF43 said:Ministers should make sure Brexit properly benefits Scotland amid potential complacency over the possibility of another independence referendum, the Conservative leader in the country, Ruth Davidson, has argued.
Independence nailed on it seems.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/may/21/brexit-must-benefit-scotland-to-avoid-complacency-over-independence0 -
They should keep going. In most cases someone resigning from a position might be enough to halt an investigation, but there are situations it is appropriate to keep going, particularly when conduct in public life is involved, and especially when the resignation is explicitly about avoiding censure or sanction, and they might well be back. They could not expel him now, but they could decide, formally, if what he repeatedly said was worthy of expulsion. Without that, his resigning doesn't actually achieve anything for Labour - people will always say he was probably not going to be expelled at all for instance.Cyclefree said:
The quid pro quo will be the termination of the disciplinary proceedings.AlastairMeeks said:
That doesn't read like a statement drafted by Ken Livingstone. I wonder who dictated it to him and what the quid pro quo is.kle4 said:
http://kenlivingstone.net/2018/05/statement-from-ken-livingstone/Plank said:Ken Livingstone has resigned the Labour party. To spend less time talking about Hitler?
I also recognise that the way I made a historical argument has caused offence and upset in the Jewish community. I am truly sorry for that.
Sure you are Ken, that's why you repeated it over and over again for years.
That right there, is an outright stinking lie0 -
MaxPB said:
Barclays have drawn first blood against the SFO today it seems. If this is a sign of things to come then heads need to roll at the SFO. They will have unnecessarily damaged the reputation of one of our largest and most successful companies on what feels like a personal vendetta against banking.
David Green QC, head of the SFO, is leaving in any event. A new US head is coming in. The decision is being appealed so let's see what happens.
And Barclays' CEO has recently been disciplined by the regulators over whistleblowing, though IMO it was a feeble decision. Barclay is an organisation which badly needs to get its house in order: most of its key compliance personnel have left, which is never a good sign. It is quite dysfunctional in many respects and still has not effectively worked out what to do with itself in the post-Diamond era.0 -
The one on the left is UKIP without a doubt.SquareRoot said:
I call that colour "revolting lime green"Elliot said:
Isn't the outfit on the left actually a light yellow green? Definitely not gold.TheScreamingEagles said:
I am still pondering what message the Duke of Sussex intended to send by driving off in a LHD jaguar.0 -
Ken's "historical"
No, ask Hitler (sic)0 -
Wingnut in chief has his Ken say....
https://twitter.com/DerbyChrisW/status/998617041782403072
follower adds helpfully:
https://twitter.com/KenSaysHitler/status/9986216218407649330 -
A bit sexist don't you think?Ishmael_Z said:
Ok. That rules out all royal brides. But of recent uk royal brides Meghan has better credentials than posh university totty, posh too dim for university totty, and horse faced adulteress.Roger said:
I don't think that was the point Rosie was making. My interpretation was that the vast majority of women can't meet and marry a prince so to suggest it's an aspiration isn't something a self proclaimed feminist should be doing. But she's an old fashioned lefty so a preditable reaction..Ishmael_Z said:
She was never in the ghetto and even if she was, landing 50000 $ a show on tv is pretty good evidence of having escaped from it. The Prince is the payoff for, not the mechanism of, escape.Roger said:......And in other news Rosie Boycott thinks Meghan has set back feminism by decades. The idea that 'the way out of the ghetto is to 'land' a prince is not feminism' says Rosie. She's always been good value. One of the great products of Cheltenham Ladies College where by chance I met my first girlfriend.
If you found yourself with Jeremy in the privacy of a sleeping bag I'm sure he'd say the same0 -
What nonsense. He did not make a "historical argument". All reputable historians of that period made clear that he was talking rubbish, rubbish that he got from a Holocaust denier. Nor was he more sinned against than sinning. His invitation to Qaradawi alone should have disqualified him from playing any part in Labour politics.Roger said:
A peerage? He was a good mayor and is clearly 'a man more sinned against than sinning'.AlastairMeeks said:
That doesn't read like a statement drafted by Ken Livingstone. I wonder who dictated it to him and what the quid pro quo is.kle4 said:
http://kenlivingstone.net/2018/05/statement-from-ken-livingstone/Plank said:Ken Livingstone has resigned the Labour party. To spend less time talking about Hitler?
I also recognise that the way I made a historical argument has caused offence and upset in the Jewish community. I am truly sorry for that.
Sure you are Ken, that's why you repeated it over and over again for years.
That right there, is an outright stinking lie0 -
Well yes, if ranking women in order of contribution to the feminist cause is sexist.Roger said:
A bit sexist don't you think?Ishmael_Z said:
Ok. That rules out all royal brides. But of recent uk royal brides Meghan has better credentials than posh university totty, posh too dim for university totty, and horse faced adulteress.Roger said:
I don't think that was the point Rosie was making. My interpretation was that the vast majority of women can't meet and marry a prince so to suggest it's an aspiration isn't something a self proclaimed feminist should be doing. But she's an old fashioned lefty so a preditable reaction..Ishmael_Z said:
She was never in the ghetto and even if she was, landing 50000 $ a show on tv is pretty good evidence of having escaped from it. The Prince is the payoff for, not the mechanism of, escape.Roger said:......And in other news Rosie Boycott thinks Meghan has set back feminism by decades. The idea that 'the way out of the ghetto is to 'land' a prince is not feminism' says Rosie. She's always been good value. One of the great products of Cheltenham Ladies College where by chance I met my first girlfriend.
If you found yourself with Jeremy in the privacy of a sleeping bag I'm sure he'd say the same0 -
It's not as bad as Rosie B's racist assumption that because Meghan is a half-black American she must have come from a ghetto. Meghan's background and schooling was pretty comfortable. It takes nothing away from her achievements as an actress. She married Harry because she fell in love with him (and he her) not to make a point.Roger said:
A bit sexist don't you think?Ishmael_Z said:
Ok. That rules out all royal brides. But of recent uk royal brides Meghan has better credentials than posh university totty, posh too dim for university totty, and horse faced adulteress.Roger said:
I don't think that was the point Rosie was making. My interpretation was that the vast majority of women can't meet and marry a prince so to suggest it's an aspiration isn't something a self proclaimed feminist should be doing. But she's an old fashioned lefty so a preditable reaction..Ishmael_Z said:
She was never in the ghetto and even if she was, landing 50000 $ a show on tv is pretty good evidence of having escaped from it. The Prince is the payoff for, not the mechanism of, escape.Roger said:......And in other news Rosie Boycott thinks Meghan has set back feminism by decades. The idea that 'the way out of the ghetto is to 'land' a prince is not feminism' says Rosie. She's always been good value. One of the great products of Cheltenham Ladies College where by chance I met my first girlfriend.
If you found yourself with Jeremy in the privacy of a sleeping bag I'm sure he'd say the same0 -
If so, it's a pretty bad reading of the situation. Expelling Livingstone was the most totemic action that could have been taken to counter the anti-semitism claims. That opportunity has now gone.Cyclefree said:
The quid pro quo will be the termination of the disciplinary proceedings.AlastairMeeks said:
That doesn't read like a statement drafted by Ken Livingstone. I wonder who dictated it to him and what the quid pro quo is.kle4 said:
http://kenlivingstone.net/2018/05/statement-from-ken-livingstone/Plank said:Ken Livingstone has resigned the Labour party. To spend less time talking about Hitler?
I also recognise that the way I made a historical argument has caused offence and upset in the Jewish community. I am truly sorry for that.
Sure you are Ken, that's why you repeated it over and over again for years.
That right there, is an outright stinking lie0
