politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » If Bercow does stand down then Lindsay Hoyle, surely, will be

FPT:

williamglenn said:

ydoethur said:

williamglenn said:

There’s a certain type of Remain voter, whom you possibly exemplify, who finds it unfathomable that we cannot execute Brexit on our own terms. Facing up to reality seems to be even more painful for them than for arch Brexiteers. National humiliation awaits and you’d better get used it it.

No William. This is not about the terms. This is about the fact we have lost. And with respect, you are the one who seems to find that simple truth unfathomable. And I would add that misguided abuse and/or wilful misunderstanding of posters who point this out merely demeans you.

I’m not the one talking about “UDI all out war” with the EU. This is just bovine jingoism.

No William, again. I said that that was what they seemed to want. I am not saying that is what I want. I would be stupid if I did want that and unlike the negotiating team of the EU I am not stupid.

Have you ever wondered why people hold you in such contempt? You, and Bromptonaut, and ScottP, who are apparently unable to read plain English and resort to nasty personal abuse when your errors are pointed out - well, bluntly the three of you don't add to the quality of discussion.

(And also, you keep obsessing about Brexit which is (a) boring and (b) going to happen whether we like it or not. Can't you take an interest in normal matters like AV and the importance of different pizza toppings?)

geoffw said:

Threedom!

Sorry Geoff, beat you to it...

And with that, since the conversation with Mr Glenn is tedious and clearly going to be unproductive as he doesn't want to listen to anything that contradicts his views, and I have a busy day tomorrow, good night.

https://twitter.com/elliotttimes/status/994678499817422849

ydoethur said:

FPT:

williamglenn said:

ydoethur said:

williamglenn said:

There’s a certain type of Remain voter, whom you possibly exemplify, who finds it unfathomable that we cannot execute Brexit on our own terms. Facing up to reality seems to be even more painful for them than for arch Brexiteers. National humiliation awaits and you’d better get used it it.

No William. This is not about the terms. This is about the fact we have lost. And with respect, you are the one who seems to find that simple truth unfathomable. And I would add that misguided abuse and/or wilful misunderstanding of posters who point this out merely demeans you.

I’m not the one talking about “UDI all out war” with the EU. This is just bovine jingoism.

No William, again. I said that that was what they seemed to want. I am not saying that is what I want. I would be stupid if I did want that and unlike the negotiating team of the EU I am not stupid.

Have you ever wondered why people hold you in such contempt? You, and Bromptonaut, and ScottP, who are apparently unable to read plain English and resort to nasty personal abuse when your errors are pointed out - well, bluntly the three of you don't add to the quality of discussion.

(And also, you keep obsessing about Brexit which is (a) boring and (b) going to happen whether we like it or not. Can't you take an interest in normal matters like AV and the importance of different pizza toppings?)

Ignore him William, stick to your guns! It's good to have a range of views on here from your extreme Remaniac to the head-banging hard brexiteers (though the latter seem to have gone a bit quiet of late!

TheScreamingEagles said:

Theresa May must go now.

She has learned nothing from last year's disaster.

https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/994678234284425216

Grammar schools are free at the point of use, unlike public schools

Benpointer said:

ydoethur said:

FPT:

williamglenn said:

ydoethur said:

williamglenn said:

There’s a certain type of Remain voter, whom you possibly exemplify, who finds it unfathomable that we cannot execute Brexit on our own terms. Facing up to reality seems to be even more painful for them than for arch Brexiteers. National humiliation awaits and you’d better get used it it.

No William. This is not about the terms. This is about the fact we have lost. And with respect, you are the one who seems to find that simple truth unfathomable. And I would add that misguided abuse and/or wilful misunderstanding of posters who point this out merely demeans you.

I’m not the one talking about “UDI all out war” with the EU. This is just bovine jingoism.

No William, again. I said that that was what they seemed to want. I am not saying that is what I want. I would be stupid if I did want that and unlike the negotiating team of the EU I am not stupid.

Have you ever wondered why people hold you in such contempt? You, and Bromptonaut, and ScottP, who are apparently unable to read plain English and resort to nasty personal abuse when your errors are pointed out - well, bluntly the three of you don't add to the quality of discussion.

(And also, you keep obsessing about Brexit which is (a) boring and (b) going to happen whether we like it or not. Can't you take an interest in normal matters like AV and the importance of different pizza toppings?)

Ignore him William, stick to your guns! It's good to have a range of views on here from your extreme Remaniac to the head-banging hard brexiteers (though the latter seem to have gone a bit quiet of late!

It's not his views I object to Ben, it's the way he puts them across. If he wishes to be incorrect, rude and patronising, that's also fine, but he can't simultaneously expect to be taken seriously.

Nos da.

@TheScreamingEagles - I don't recall grammar schools being a central part of last year's GE.

williamglenn said:

FPT

ydoethur said:

Edit - of course you do typify the attitude of the EU, who also apparently can't get their admittedly rather empty heads round the fact we're leaving and the world won't actually end as a result however painful for both of us in the short term. What I can't understand is why they're so anxious to inflict a punishment beating on us that not only dramatically increases the risks to themselves but effectively rules out the possibility of us ever rejoining.

The EU treat the 2016 referendum with the lack of reverence it deserves. The negotiations don't get to be carried out in an atmosphere of subservience to the wishes of people who voted for Brexit, which is itself negotiable and not a law of physics.

The lack of reverence it deserves- wow. So 1975 was a load of bollocks too then presumably?

ydoethur said:

Benpointer said:

ydoethur said:

FPT:

williamglenn said:

ydoethur said:

williamglenn said:

There’s a certain type of Remain voter, whom you possibly exemplify, who finds it unfathomable that we cannot execute Brexit on our own terms. Facing up to reality seems to be even more painful for them than for arch Brexiteers. National humiliation awaits and you’d better get used it it.

No William. This is not about the terms. This is about the fact we have lost. And with respect, you are the one who seems to find that simple truth unfathomable. And I would add that misguided abuse and/or wilful misunderstanding of posters who point this out merely demeans you.

I’m not the one talking about “UDI all out war” with the EU. This is just bovine jingoism.

No William, again. I said that that was what they seemed to want. I am not saying that is what I want. I would be stupid if I did want that and unlike the negotiating team of the EU I am not stupid.

Have you ever wondered why people hold you in such contempt? You, and Bromptonaut, and ScottP, who are apparently unable to read plain English and resort to nasty personal abuse when your errors are pointed out - well, bluntly the three of you don't add to the quality of discussion.

(And also, you keep obsessing about Brexit which is (a) boring and (b) going to happen whether we like it or not. Can't you take an interest in normal matters like AV and the importance of different pizza toppings?)

Ignore him William, stick to your guns! It's good to have a range of views on here from your extreme Remaniac to the head-banging hard brexiteers (though the latter seem to have gone a bit quiet of late!

It's not his views I object to Ben, it's the way he puts them across. If he wishes to be incorrect, rude and patronising, that's also fine, but he can't simultaneously expect to be taken seriously.

Nos da.

Not for the first time you have expressed your own views about me by ascribing them to 'people'. That's fine, but you can't simultaneously pose as an arbiter of civility.

TheScreamingEagles said:

Benpointer said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Theresa May must go now.

She has learned nothing from last year's disaster.

https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/994678234284425216

What's a working class northern public schoolby like you got against grammar schools? Do they force-feed pinapple pizzas?

They screw poor children that don't get into grammar schools.

Mrs Thatcher saw that when she was Education Secretary when she closed and merged so many and refused to undo her great work when she was PM even with stonking majorities.

Smashing the unions, creating the single market, and closing so many grammar schools were Mrs T's finest achievements.

By the same token, public schools screw poor children full stop.

AlastairMeeks said:

John Bercow made it clear today that he has no intention of standing down voluntarily. If he’s going to go, his fingertips are going to have to be prised from the jambs.

A bit like Tezza's, it seems.

TheScreamingEagles said:

Benpointer said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Theresa May must go now.

She has learned nothing from last year's disaster.

https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/994678234284425216

What's a working class northern public schoolby like you got against grammar schools? Do they force-feed pinapple pizzas?

They screw poor children that don't get into grammar schools.

Mrs Thatcher saw that when she was Education Secretary when she closed and merged so many and refused to undo her great work when she was PM even with stonking majorities.

Smashing the unions, creating the single market, and closing so many grammar schools were Mrs T's finest achievements.

Getting rid of Grammar schools screwed intelligent poor kids

TheScreamingEagles said:

Benpointer said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Benpointer said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Theresa May must go now.

She has learned nothing from last year's disaster.

https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/994678234284425216

What's a working class northern public schoolby like you got against grammar schools? Do they force-feed pinapple pizzas?

They screw poor children that don't get into grammar schools.

Mrs Thatcher saw that when she was Education Secretary when she closed and merged so many and refused to undo her great work when she was PM even with stonking majorities.

Smashing the unions, creating the single market, and closing so many grammar schools were Mrs T's finest achievements.

By the same token, public schools screw poor children full stop.

Nah, we ensure money isn't spent by the state on the best but spent on the less fortunate.

The parents of public schoolchildren are patriots and enduring financial hardship for the greater good.

I'm not being funny but I find it incredibly difficult to argue against grammar schools (A form that discriminates against slower developers) having had a form of education that is discriminatory (Private education).

Do you not feel similar internal contradictions ?

I think if one argues against the existence of grammar schools then it is logically consistent to argue against fee paying schools. And I can't do that.

Pulpstar said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Benpointer said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Benpointer said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Theresa May must go now.

She has learned nothing from last year's disaster.

https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/994678234284425216

What's a working class northern public schoolby like you got against grammar schools? Do they force-feed pinapple pizzas?

They screw poor children that don't get into grammar schools.

Mrs Thatcher saw that when she was Education Secretary when she closed and merged so many and refused to undo her great work when she was PM even with stonking majorities.

Smashing the unions, creating the single market, and closing so many grammar schools were Mrs T's finest achievements.

By the same token, public schools screw poor children full stop.

Nah, we ensure money isn't spent by the state on the best but spent on the less fortunate.

The parents of public schoolchildren are patriots and enduring financial hardship for the greater good.

I'm not being funny but I find it incredibly difficult to argue against grammar schools (A form that discriminates against slower developers) having had a form of education that is discriminatory (Private education).

Do you not feel similar internal contradictions ?

I think if one argues against the existence of grammar schools then it is logically consistent to argue against fee paying schools. And I can't do that.

Hands up all those who believe in equality of opportunity. If you do, how can you support public schools?

TheScreamingEagles said:

Pulpstar said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Benpointer said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Benpointer said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Theresa May must go now.

She has learned nothing from last year's disaster.

https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/994678234284425216

What's a working class northern public schoolby like you got against grammar schools? Do they force-feed pinapple pizzas?

They screw poor children that don't get into grammar schools.

Mrs Thatcher saw that when she was Education Secretary when she closed and merged so many and refused to undo her great work when she was PM even with stonking majorities.

Smashing the unions, creating the single market, and closing so many grammar schools were Mrs T's finest achievements.

By the same token, public schools screw poor children full stop.

Nah, we ensure money isn't spent by the state on the best but spent on the less fortunate.

The parents of public schoolchildren are patriots and enduring financial hardship for the greater good.

I'm not being funny but I find it incredibly difficult to argue against grammar schools (A form that discriminates against slower developers) having had a form of education that is discriminatory (Private education).

Do you not feel similar internal contradictions ?

I think if one argues against the existence of grammar schools then it is logically consistent to argue against fee paying schools. And I can't do that.

Nah, I can dance on a pinhead.

One is funded directly by the government, the other isn't it.

If I had my way I'd abolish the state sector, and give parents the money as vouchers for schools.

Let private schools do what the state cannot do.

Interesting idea...but how would you bridge the gap between what the state was prepared to offfer in vouchers and what the private schools were preapared to accept in fees?

It's extremely hard to dislike Lindsay Hoyle.

Roger said:

What kind of shit intelligence service do we run in this country?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/may/10/britain-apologises-for-appalling-treatment-of-abdel-hakim-belhaj

The finest, Donald Maclean, Anthony Blunt, Guy Burgess, Kim Philby, and John Cairncross were known as the magnificent five.

Honourable shout outs to Roger Hollis and Tom Driberg.

williamglenn said:

FPT

ydoethur said:

Edit - of course you do typify the attitude of the EU, who also apparently can't get their admittedly rather empty heads round the fact we're leaving and the world won't actually end as a result however painful for both of us in the short term. What I can't understand is why they're so anxious to inflict a punishment beating on us that not only dramatically increases the risks to themselves but effectively rules out the possibility of us ever rejoining.

The EU treat the 2016 referendum with the lack of reverence it deserves. The negotiations don't get to be carried out in an atmosphere of subservience to the wishes of people who voted for Brexit, which is itself negotiable and not a law of physics.

And, such attitudes explain why I voted for Brexit and, also, why I'm rather proud to be British.

We respect democracy results in this country.

Roger said:

What kind of shit intelligence service do we run in this country?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/may/10/britain-apologises-for-appalling-treatment-of-abdel-hakim-belhaj

A typical one.

Casino_Royale said:

It's extremely hard to dislike Lindsay Hoyle.

He seems like a jolly good egg.

TheScreamingEagles said:

tlg86 said:

@TheScreamingEagles - I don't recall grammar schools being a central part of last year's GE.

It was swamped by fox hunting and the dementia tax.

I remember being sent by Jim Messina's magic data machine to knock on the door of a solid Labour supporter in Southampton Test, and I got a hat-trick rant on all three.

AlastairMeeks said:

Benpointer said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Benpointer said:

Pulpstar said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Benpointer said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Benpointer said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Theresa May must go now.

She has learned nothing from last year's disaster.

https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/994678234284425216

What's a working class northern public schoolby like you got against grammar schools? Do they force-feed pinapple pizzas?

They screw poor children that don't get into grammar schools.

Mrs Thatcher saw that when she was Education Secretary when she closed and merged so many and refused to undo her great work when she was PM even with stonking majorities.

Smashing the unions, creating the single market, and closing so many grammar schools were Mrs T's finest achievements.

By the same token, public schools screw poor children full stop.

Nah, we ensure money isn't spent by the state on the best but spent on the less fortunate.

The parents of public schoolchildren are patriots and enduring financial hardship for the greater good.

I'm not being funny but I find it incredibly difficult to argue against grammar schools (A form that discriminates against slower developers) having had a form of education that is discriminatory (Private education).

Do you not feel similar internal contradictions ?

I think if one argues against the existence of grammar schools then it is logically consistent to argue against fee paying schools. And I can't do that.

Hands up all those who believe in equality of opportunity. If you do, how can you support public schools?

People should be able to spend their money on whatever they like. If state education is inadequate, that needs addressing, but that’s a separate matter.

The aim should be to make private schools redundant rather than outlawed.

So you don't believe in equality of opportunity?

I believe in allowing people to spend money on what they like. I also believe in adequate state provision, setting the bar for “adequate” high.

Would you restrict what food I can buy because I might choose to spend my money on expensive superfoods that are of superior nutritional content?

And it relieves pressure on state school. The parents of private school children are effectively paying twice.

Sunil_Prasannan said:

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/994687788909060101

"We're flying the flag
All over the world
Flying the flag for you!"

https://twitter.com/TechnicallyRon/status/993941879065661442

Pulpstar said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Benpointer said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Benpointer said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Theresa May must go now.

She has learned nothing from last year's disaster.

https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/994678234284425216

What's a working class northern public schoolby like you got against grammar schools? Do they force-feed pinapple pizzas?

They screw poor children that don't get into grammar schools.

Mrs Thatcher saw that when she was Education Secretary when she closed and merged so many and refused to undo her great work when she was PM even with stonking majorities.

Smashing the unions, creating the single market, and closing so many grammar schools were Mrs T's finest achievements.

By the same token, public schools screw poor children full stop.

Nah, we ensure money isn't spent by the state on the best but spent on the less fortunate.

The parents of public schoolchildren are patriots and enduring financial hardship for the greater good.

I'm not being funny but I find it incredibly difficult to argue against grammar schools (A form that discriminates against slower developers) having had a form of education that is discriminatory (Private education).

Do you not feel similar internal contradictions ?

I think if one argues against the existence of grammar schools then it is logically consistent to argue against fee paying schools. And I can't do that.

I think it's hard to argue against grammar schools and support setting within comprehensives. Particularly when setting is used to dump 38 kids into top set maths.

Sean_F said:

Roger said:

What kind of shit intelligence service do we run in this country?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/may/10/britain-apologises-for-appalling-treatment-of-abdel-hakim-belhaj

A typical one.

And are they typically led by a Nazi like Jack Straw?

Ishmael_Z said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/994687788909060101

"We're flying the flag
All over the world
Flying the flag for you!"

Netta Barzilai has helped me to find my inner anti-Zionist.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CziHrYYSyPc

Benpointer said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Benpointer said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Benpointer said:

Pulpstar said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Benpointer said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Benpointer said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Theresa May must go now.

She has learned nothing from last year's disaster.

https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/994678234284425216

What's a working class northern public schoolby like you got against grammar schools? Do they force-feed pinapple pizzas?

They screw poor children that don't get into grammar schools.

Mrs Thatcher saw that when she was Education Secretary when she closed and merged so many and refused to undo her great work when she was PM even with stonking majorities.

Smashing the unions, creating the single market, and closing so many grammar schools were Mrs T's finest achievements.

By the same token, public schools screw poor children full stop.

Nah, we ensure money isn't spent by the state on the best but spent on the less fortunate.

The parents of public schoolchildren are patriots and enduring financial hardship for the greater good.

I'm not being funny but I find it incredibly difficult to argue against grammar schools (A form that discriminates against slower developers) having had a form of education that is discriminatory (Private education).

Do you not feel similar internal contradictions ?

I think if one argues against the existence of grammar schools then it is logically consistent to argue against fee paying schools. And I can't do that.

Hands up all those who believe in equality of opportunity. If you do, how can you support public schools?

People should be able to spend their money on whatever they like. If state education is inadequate, that needs addressing, but that’s a separate matter.

The aim should be to make private schools redundant rather than outlawed.

So you don't believe in equality of opportunity?

I believe in allowing people to spend money on what they like. I also believe in adequate state provision, setting the bar for “adequate” high.

Would you restrict what food I can buy because I might choose to spend my money on expensive superfoods that are of superior nutritional content?

Pah! that analogy is rubbish and you know it! No superfood was ever going to propel an utter numpty like Boris to Foreign Secretary but an Eton education just about managed it.

What if you start "Eton" the aforementioned superfood?

Benpointer said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Benpointer said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Benpointer said:

Pulpstar said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Benpointer said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Benpointer said:

What's a working class northern public schoolby like you got against grammar schools? Do they force-feed pinapple pizzas?

They screw poor children that don't get into grammar schools.

Mrs Thatcher saw that when she was Education Secretary when she closed and merged so many and refused to undo her great work when she was PM even with stonking majorities.

Smashing the unions, creating the single market, and closing so many grammar schools were Mrs T's finest achievements.

By the same token, public schools screw poor children full stop.

Nah, we ensure money isn't spent by the state on the best but spent on the less fortunate.

The parents of public schoolchildren are patriots and enduring financial hardship for the greater good.

I'm not being funny but I find it incredibly difficult to argue against grammar schools (A form that discriminates against slower developers) having had a form of education that is discriminatory (Private education).

Do you not feel similar internal contradictions ?

I think if one argues against the existence of grammar schools then it is logically consistent to argue against fee paying schools. And I can't do that.

Hands up all those who believe in equality of opportunity. If you do, how can you support public schools?

People should be able to spend their money on whatever they like. If state education is inadequate, that needs addressing, but that’s a separate matter.

The aim should be to make private schools redundant rather than outlawed.

So you don't believe in equality of opportunity?

I believe in allowing people to spend money on what they like. I also believe in adequate state provision, setting the bar for “adequate” high.

Would you restrict what food I can buy because I might choose to spend my money on expensive superfoods that are of superior nutritional content?

Pah! that analogy is rubbish and you know it! No superfood was ever going to propel an utter numpty like Boris to Foreign Secretary but an Eton education just about managed it.

With inadequate food you would starve.

Your complaint seems to be that private education is much better than state education. The correct response to that fear is to improve state education not ban a superior product.

Sunil_Prasannan said:

Benpointer said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Benpointer said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Benpointer said:

Pulpstar said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Benpointer said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Benpointer said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Theresa May must go now.



https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/994678234284425216

What's a working class northern public schoolby like you got against grammar schools? Do they force-feed pinapple pizzas?

They screw poor children that don't get into grammar schools.

Mrs Thatcher saw that when she was Education Secretary when she closed and merged so many and refused to undo her great work when she was PM even with stonking majorities.

Smashing the unions, creating the single market, and closing so many grammar schools were Mrs T's finest achievements.

By the same token, public schools screw poor children full stop.

Nah, we ensure money isn't spent by the state on the best but spent on the less fortunate.

The parents of public schoolchildren are patriots and enduring financial hardship for the greater good.

I'm not being funny but I find it incredibly difficult to argue against grammar schools (A form that discriminates against slower developers) having had a form of education that is discriminatory (Private education).

Do you not feel similar internal contradictions ?

I think if one argues against the existence of grammar schools then it is logically consistent to argue against fee paying schools. And I can't do that.

Hands up all those who believe in equality of opportunity. If you do, how can you support public schools?

People should be able to spend their money on whatever they like. If state education is inadequate, that needs addressing, but that’s a separate matter.

The aim should be to make private schools redundant rather than outlawed.

So you don't believe in equality of opportunity?

I believe in allowing people to spend money on what they like. I also believe in adequate state provision, setting the bar for “adequate” high.

Would you restrict what food I can buy because I might choose to spend my money on expensive superfoods that are of superior nutritional content?

Pah! that analogy is rubbish and you know it! No superfood was ever going to propel an utter numpty like Boris to Foreign Secretary but an Eton education just about managed it.

What if you start "Eton" the aforementioned superfood?

Don't give up the day-job Sunil!

tlg86 said:

Pulpstar said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Benpointer said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Benpointer said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Theresa May must go now.

She has learned nothing from last year's disaster.

https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/994678234284425216

What's a working class northern public schoolby like you got against grammar schools? Do they force-feed pinapple pizzas?

They screw poor children that don't get into grammar schools.

Mrs Thatcher saw that when she was Education Secretary when she closed and merged so many and refused to undo her great work when she was PM even with stonking majorities.

Smashing the unions, creating the single market, and closing so many grammar schools were Mrs T's finest achievements.

By the same token, public schools screw poor children full stop.

Nah, we ensure money isn't spent by the state on the best but spent on the less fortunate.

The parents of public schoolchildren are patriots and enduring financial hardship for the greater good.

I'm not being funny but I find it incredibly difficult to argue against grammar schools (A form that discriminates against slower developers) having had a form of education that is discriminatory (Private education).

Do you not feel similar internal contradictions ?

I think if one argues against the existence of grammar schools then it is logically consistent to argue against fee paying schools. And I can't do that.

I think it's hard to argue against grammar schools and support setting within comprehensives. Particularly when setting is used to dump 38 kids into top set maths.

Utter rubbish. Setting in comps works because you can move up sets if you improve.

In the grammar system you are done for if you flunk at age 11.

brendan16 said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

Ishmael_Z said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/994687788909060101

"We're flying the flag
All over the world
Flying the flag for you!"

Netta Barzilai has helped me to find my inner anti-Zionist.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CziHrYYSyPc

Next year in Jerusalem - or perhaps Nicosia or Oslo if the bookies are to be believed!

Bad night for the disapora voting bloc - no Poland, Russia or Romania in the final. And the Aussies qualified again. Seems the jury is continuing to have the desired effect! It's all about the music folks.

Technically Ron wins the internet, again:

https://twitter.com/TechnicallyRon/status/994686638189170688

Anazina said:

tlg86 said:

Pulpstar said:

I'm not being funny but I find it incredibly difficult to argue against grammar schools (A form that discriminates against slower developers) having had a form of education that is discriminatory (Private education).

Do you not feel similar internal contradictions ?

I think if one argues against the existence of grammar schools then it is logically consistent to argue against fee paying schools. And I can't do that.

I think it's hard to argue against grammar schools and support setting within comprehensives. Particularly when setting is used to dump 38 kids into top set maths.

Utter rubbish. Setting in comps works because you can move up sets if you improve.

In the grammar system you are done for if you flunk at age 11.

The point I'm making is that in my case, I was put in a class of 38 to allow those on the C/D threshold to get smaller class sizes. Does that seem fair to you?

GIN1138 said:

I don't think Speaker B intends to go... So it will be whether Parliamentary authorities find that he did bully some members of his staff or not.

If they do I imagine the PLP with withdraw their support for him and it'll be game over.

Benpointer said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Pulpstar said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Benpointer said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Benpointer said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Theresa May must go now.

She has learned nothing from last year's disaster.

https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/994678234284425216

What's a working class northern public schoolby like you got against grammar schools? Do they force-feed pinapple pizzas?

They screw poor children that don't get into grammar schools.

Mrs Thatcher saw that when she was Education Secretary when she closed and merged so many and refused to undo her great work when she was PM even with stonking majorities.

Smashing the unions, creating the single market, and closing so many grammar schools were Mrs T's finest achievements.

By the same token, public schools screw poor children full stop.

Nah, we ensure money isn't spent by the state on the best but spent on the less fortunate.

The parents of public schoolchildren are patriots and enduring financial hardship for the greater good.

I'm not being funny but I find it incredibly difficult to argue against grammar schools (A form that discriminates against slower developers) having had a form of education that is discriminatory (Private education).

Do you not feel similar internal contradictions ?

I think if one argues against the existence of grammar schools then it is logically consistent to argue against fee paying schools. And I can't do that.

Nah, I can dance on a pinhead.

One is funded directly by the government, the other isn't it.

If I had my way I'd abolish the state sector, and give parents the money as vouchers for schools.

Let private schools do what the state cannot do.

Interesting idea...but how would you bridge the gap between what the state was prepared to offfer in vouchers and what the private schools were preapared to accept in fees?

Correct. It’s a bollocks idea.

tlg86 said:

Anazina said:

tlg86 said:

Pulpstar said:

I'm not being funny but I find it incredibly difficult to argue against grammar schools (A form that discriminates against slower developers) having had a form of education that is discriminatory (Private education).

Do you not feel similar internal contradictions ?

I think if one argues against the existence of grammar schools then it is logically consistent to argue against fee paying schools. And I can't do that.

I think it's hard to argue against grammar schools and support setting within comprehensives. Particularly when setting is used to dump 38 kids into top set maths.

Utter rubbish. Setting in comps works because you can move up sets if you improve.

In the grammar system you are done for if you flunk at age 11.

The point I'm making is that in my case, I was put in a class of 38 to allow those on the C/D threshold to get smaller class sizes. Does that seem fair to you?

No, not at all. But it makes another point, not the one you were originally trying to make.

RobD said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Benpointer said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Benpointer said:

Pulpstar said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Benpointer said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Benpointer said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Theresa May must go now.

She has learned nothing from last year's disaster.

https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/994678234284425216

What's a working class northern public schoolby like you got against grammar schools? Do they force-feed pinapple pizzas?

They screw poor children that don't get into grammar schools.

Mrs Thatcher saw that when she was Education Secretary when she closed and merged so many and refused to undo her great work when she was PM even with stonking majorities.

Smashing the unions, creating the single market, and closing so many grammar schools were Mrs T's finest achievements.

By the same token, public schools screw poor children full stop.

Nah, we ensure money isn't spent by the state on the best but spent on the less fortunate.

The parents of public schoolchildren are patriots and enduring financial hardship for the greater good.

I'm not being funny but I find it incredibly difficult to argue against grammar schools (A form that discriminates against slower developers) having had a form of education that is discriminatory (Private education).

Do you not feel similar internal contradictions ?

I think if one argues against the existence of grammar schools then it is logically consistent to argue against fee paying schools. And I can't do that.

Hands up all those who believe in equality of opportunity. If you do, how can you support public schools?

People should be able to spend their money on whatever they like. If state education is inadequate, that needs addressing, but that’s a separate matter.

The aim should be to make private schools redundant rather than outlawed.

So you don't believe in equality of opportunity?

I believe in allowing people to spend money on what they like. I also believe in adequate state provision, setting the bar for “adequate” high.

Would you restrict what food I can buy because I might choose to spend my money on expensive superfoods that are of superior nutritional content?

And it relieves pressure on state school. The parents of private school children are effectively paying twice.

What it actually means in parts of London that the secondary schools are starved of middle class children, and become ghettos for the poor. See Wimbledon SW19 and Southfields SW18 for further details.

SandyRentool said:

Anazina said:

Sean_F said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Benpointer said:

Pulpstar said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Benpointer said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Benpointer said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Theresa May must go now.

She has learned nothing from last year's disaster.

https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/994678234284425216

What's a working class northern public schoolby like you got against grammar schools? Do they force-feed pinapple pizzas?

They screw poor children that don't get into grammar schools.

Mrs Thatcher saw that when she was Education Secretary when she closed and merged so many and refused to undo her great work when she was PM even with stonking majorities.

Smashing the unions, creating the single market, and closing so many grammar schools were Mrs T's finest achievements.

By the same token, public schools screw poor children full stop.

Nah, we ensure money isn't spent by the state on the best but spent on the less fortunate.

The parents of public schoolchildren are patriots and enduring financial hardship for the greater good.

I'm not being funny but I find it incredibly difficult to argue against grammar schools (A form that discriminates against slower developers) having had a form of education that is discriminatory (Private education).

Do you not feel similar internal contradictions ?

I think if one argues against the existence of grammar schools then it is logically consistent to argue against fee paying schools. And I can't do that.

Hands up all those who believe in equality of opportunity. If you do, how can you support public schools?

People should be able to spend their money on whatever they like. If state education is inadequate, that needs addressing, but that’s a separate matter.

The aim should be to make private schools redundant rather than outlawed.

Even in an ideal world, I would not wish to make them redundant.

Why not? If the state school was superb what would be the point of them?

You mean you think it is about the quality of the education?

Think again.

I wouldn’t be so bold as to imply anything else...

Casino_Royale said:

williamglenn said:

FPT

ydoethur said:

Edit - of course you do typify the attitude of the EU, who also apparently can't get their admittedly rather empty heads round the fact we're leaving and the world won't actually end as a result however painful for both of us in the short term. What I can't understand is why they're so anxious to inflict a punishment beating on us that not only dramatically increases the risks to themselves but effectively rules out the possibility of us ever rejoining.

The EU treat the 2016 referendum with the lack of reverence it deserves. The negotiations don't get to be carried out in an atmosphere of subservience to the wishes of people who voted for Brexit, which is itself negotiable and not a law of physics.

And, such attitudes explain why I voted for Brexit and, also, why I'm rather proud to be British.

We respect democracy results in this country.

But presumably another reason you voted for Brexit is that you don't think other countries' democratic results should impose any obligations upon us. It's the same in reverse.

tlg86 said:

Anazina said:

tlg86 said:

Anazina said:

tlg86 said:

Pulpstar said:

I'm not being funny but I find it incredibly difficult to argue against grammar schools (A form that discriminates against slower developers) having had a form of education that is discriminatory (Private education).

Do you not feel similar internal contradictions ?

I think if one argues against the existence of grammar schools then it is logically consistent to argue against fee paying schools. And I can't do that.

I think it's hard to argue against grammar schools and support setting within comprehensives. Particularly when setting is used to dump 38 kids into top set maths.

Utter rubbish. Setting in comps works because you can move up sets if you improve.

In the grammar system you are done for if you flunk at age 11.

The point I'm making is that in my case, I was put in a class of 38 to allow those on the C/D threshold to get smaller class sizes. Does that seem fair to you?

No, not at all. But it makes another point, not the one you were originally trying to make.

Leaving aside the cynical use of setting, it's still segregation. And I seem to remember kids moving up, but not moving down.

Personally the bigger problem I experienced was the lack of a sixth form. My secondary school wasn't set up to get you on the right path in terms of picking A-Levels.

It’s streaming. The point is it’s not fixed. The cut off point at 11 under the grammar system condemns children when they are still in short trousers.

tlg86 said:

Anazina said:

What it actually means in parts of London that the secondary schools are starved of middle class children, and become ghettos for the poor. See Wimbledon SW19 and Southfields SW18 for further details.

My idea for London is to abolish the catchment area (I think that's done by the London Oratory anyway). Given the transport links, I don't see why a kid in Bermondsey shouldn't be able to go to high performing secondary school in a posher part of town. It would have to be a lottery, but I think it could work.

That’s an interesting idea. Hmm.

Mortimer said:

Casino_Royale said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

tlg86 said:

@TheScreamingEagles - I don't recall grammar schools being a central part of last year's GE.

It was swamped by fox hunting and the dementia tax.

...to knock on the door of a solid Labour supporter in Southampton Test, and I got a hat-trick rant on all three.

Ha! Snap.

I was knocking up in that constituency on election day. It became quite obvious quite quickly that we were not going to win that seat.

Itchen swung to the Tories at the local elections.

AndyJS said:

Mortimer said:

Casino_Royale said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

tlg86 said:

@TheScreamingEagles - I don't recall grammar schools being a central part of last year's GE.

It was swamped by fox hunting and the dementia tax.

...to knock on the door of a solid Labour supporter in Southampton Test, and I got a hat-trick rant on all three.

Ha! Snap.

I was knocking up in that constituency on election day. It became quite obvious quite quickly that we were not going to win that seat.

Itchen swung to the Tories at the local elections.

Traditionally a more Tory seat, though, IIRC?

Benpointer said:

brendan16 said:

Gardenwalker said:

So the customs partnership is dead. Long live max fac.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/6258797/brexit-theresa-may-max-fac-customs-union/

Does Max factor have a trademark on the term Max fac?

Is there any foundation to this story or is it just made up - another Brexit puff powder piece?

Excellent! - you can give up the day job!

Sorry but I am finding it as hard to take it all seriously given the EU doesn't see either option as being workable anyway. But we had free movement and customs controls between NI/UK and the Irish free state/Republic for seventy years from 1922 to 1992 so I am sure a way forward will be found.

Mortimer said:

Gardenwalker said:

So the customs partnership is dead. Long live max fac.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/6258797/brexit-theresa-may-max-fac-customs-union/

It was always a too clever by half civil service wheeze that wouldn't have worked in reality. I'm glad that No. 10 has seen the light.

Don't count your chickens. Sun spin.

Barnesian said:

Mortimer said:

Gardenwalker said:

So the customs partnership is dead. Long live max fac.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/6258797/brexit-theresa-may-max-fac-customs-union/

It was always a too clever by half civil service wheeze that wouldn't have worked in reality. I'm glad that No. 10 has seen the light.

Don't count your chickens. Sun spin.

I've said from the start it wouldn't work. I'm immensely relaxed that it will be dropped as a proposal.

No 10 have remembered that they're in the driving seat, as the executive.

But also that the constraints on their remaining the executive is in the hands of the largest party in the elected chamber of the commons.

Charles said:

Benpointer said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Benpointer said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Theresa May must go now.

She has learned nothing from last year's disaster.

https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/994678234284425216

What's a working class northern public schoolby like you got against grammar schools? Do they force-feed pinapple pizzas?

They screw poor children that don't get into grammar schools.

Mrs Thatcher saw that when she was Education Secretary when she closed and merged so many and refused to undo her great work when she was PM even with stonking majorities.

Smashing the unions, creating the single market, and closing so many grammar schools were Mrs T's finest achievements.

By the same token, public schools screw poor children full stop.

One third of the kids at Eton are funded either from the legacies left by King Henry and the Duke of Newcastle or by the generosity of many hundreds of members of the wider Etonian community.

That’s 400 poor kids “being screwed” to the tune of £12m per year

That sounds like complete rubbish Charles.

Eton's own website says "During the 2015/16 academic year 273 boys (21% of the school) will receive means-tested bursaries averaging a 66% reduction in school fees, with 73 of those pupils paying no fees at all."

But those are not 'poor kids'; a 66% reduction still leaves over £13k to find p.a. (that's half the average UK salary before tax.) Even those paying no fees at all will have had to pass the common entrance exams (https://www.etoncollege.com/KSpapers.aspx) which a state primary education is not going to set you up for.

Pulpstar said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Benpointer said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Benpointer said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Theresa May must go now.

She has learned nothing from last year's disaster.

https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/994678234284425216

What's a working class northern public schoolby like you got against grammar schools? Do they force-feed pinapple pizzas?

They screw poor children that don't get into grammar schools.

Mrs Thatcher saw that when she was Education Secretary when she closed and merged so many and refused to undo her great work when she was PM even with stonking majorities.

Smashing the unions, creating the single market, and closing so many grammar schools were Mrs T's finest achievements.

By the same token, public schools screw poor children full stop.

Nah, we ensure money isn't spent by the state on the best but spent on the less fortunate.

The parents of public schoolchildren are patriots and enduring financial hardship for the greater good.

I'm not being funny but I find it incredibly difficult to argue against grammar schools (A form that discriminates against slower developers) having had a form of education that is discriminatory (Private education).

Do you not feel similar internal contradictions ?

I think if one argues against the existence of grammar schools then it is logically consistent to argue against fee paying schools. And I can't do that.

1. Do grammar schools benefit bright, but poor, students? Probably yes.
2. Do grammar schools have a negative impact on the results of the next 50% of students below the brightest 20%? Probably yes.

Does 1 outweigh 2? Well, we need to see the numbers to know the answer.

Any discussion based around feelings rather than data must be discarded.

tlg86 said:

Pulpstar said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Benpointer said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Benpointer said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Theresa May must go now.

She has learned nothing from last year's disaster.

https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/994678234284425216

What's a working class northern public schoolby like you got against grammar schools? Do they force-feed pinapple pizzas?

They screw poor children that don't get into grammar schools.

Mrs Thatcher saw that when she was Education Secretary when she closed and merged so many and refused to undo her great work when she was PM even with stonking majorities.

Smashing the unions, creating the single market, and closing so many grammar schools were Mrs T's finest achievements.

By the same token, public schools screw poor children full stop.

Nah, we ensure money isn't spent by the state on the best but spent on the less fortunate.

The parents of public schoolchildren are patriots and enduring financial hardship for the greater good.

I'm not being funny but I find it incredibly difficult to argue against grammar schools (A form that discriminates against slower developers) having had a form of education that is discriminatory (Private education).

Do you not feel similar internal contradictions ?

I think if one argues against the existence of grammar schools then it is logically consistent to argue against fee paying schools. And I can't do that.

I think it's hard to argue against grammar schools and support setting within comprehensives. Particularly when setting is used to dump 38 kids into top set maths.

I think the arguments against grammar schools are two fold:

1. People who 'have a bad day' on 11 Plus Day are permanently disadvantaged. The statistics on the number of people who went from Secondary Moderns to University were staggeringly small.

2. The results for people in the 21 to 100th percentile are significantly worse in grammar school areas than in comprehensive areas.

Now, a big increase in the grades of the poor but bright is probably a price worth paying for a small worsening in the next 80%. But if its only a negligible increase, and the price is dramatically worse outcomes for the next 80%, then it isn't.

rcs1000 said:

Pulpstar said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Benpointer said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Benpointer said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Theresa May must go now.

She has learned nothing from last year's disaster.

https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/994678234284425216

What's a working class northern public schoolby like you got against grammar schools? Do they force-feed pinapple pizzas?

They screw poor children that don't get into grammar schools.

Mrs Thatcher saw that when she was Education Secretary when she closed and merged so many and refused to undo her great work when she was PM even with stonking majorities.

Smashing the unions, creating the single market, and closing so many grammar schools were Mrs T's finest achievements.

By the same token, public schools screw poor children full stop.

Nah, we ensure money isn't spent by the state on the best but spent on the less fortunate.

The parents of public schoolchildren are patriots and enduring financial hardship for the greater good.

I'm not being funny but I find it incredibly difficult to argue against grammar schools (A form that discriminates against slower developers) having had a form of education that is discriminatory (Private education).

Do you not feel similar internal contradictions ?

I think if one argues against the existence of grammar schools then it is logically consistent to argue against fee paying schools. And I can't do that.

1. Do grammar schools benefit bright, but poor, students? Probably yes.
2. Do grammar schools have a negative impact on the results of the next 50% of students below the brightest 20%? Probably yes.

Does 1 outweigh 2? Well, we need to see the numbers to know the answer.

Any discussion based around feelings rather than data must be discarded.

1. Do private schools benefit rich, but dim, students? Probably yes.
2 Do private schools have a negative impact on the results of the next 50% of students below the richest 5%? Probably yes.

1.and 2. are both undesirable so there is no balance to be assessed.