politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The winner of the first Westminster by-elections of the Parlia
politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The winner of the first Westminster by-elections of the Parliament is unlikely even to take his seat
This by-election is the 33rd by-election since the 2010 general election and is the 25th occasion when a by-election has been caused by an MP resigning their seat (75%). This compares with the eight years before then (2002 – 2010) when out of 21 by-elections 11 were caused by resigning MP’s (52%) and the reason for this? Fewer and fewer MP’s are dying in office. Indeed during the 1966 – 1970 Parliament of the 38 by-elections, 29 (76%) were caused by the member dying (therefore making any chances of the government’s majority disappearing through by-elections before the next election very unlikely indeed).
Comments
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1st - unlike me on Thursday!0
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2nd - like me on Thursday!0
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Hedging your bets there Sandy...0
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Which ward are you running in, and do youSandyRentool said:2nd - like me on Thursday!
a) Want
b) Expect
to win ?
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fpt
And the Tories won Rutland and Melton by 23,000 so the fuck what?HYUFD said:
Labour won Kensington by just 20 votes, the Tories won Chelsea and Fulham by thousandsTOPPING said:
Good point because at the GE Labour got a whooping in Kensington, didn't they.HYUFD said:
Well if Labour win Kensington and Chelsea on Thursday I will admit I was wrong, that is a big if howeverQuincel said:
I'm not on the doorstep preaching this, I'm observing voter shifts and trying to understand it. Why do you think Labour's popularity in London is at record highs?HYUFD said:
29% is less than a third, as I said the majority of Kensington and Chelsea residents are very wealthy indeed.Quincel said:
29% of children in Kensington and Chelsea live in poverty, it's an area of extreme wealth but far from universally so*. And even the Haves don't like the idea of their children not having the opportunities they had - the relative decline in housing affordability is the key, not the absolute position.HYUFD said:
In your mind maybe, most people living in Kensington and Chelsea are multi millionaires and are more worried by Labour councils slashing the value of their wealth.
If you are going to go on about getting more people on the housing ladder speak to the LDs, who both want to keep free movement and along with the Residents Associations are the NIMBYiest party around
*(the London figure is 37%, I'm not denying K&C is a richer area than most, for sure)
The 'Haves' are richer in asset terms than their parents could even dream of so again your politics of resentment and envy fails there in Kensington and Chelsea too
Labour won Kensington at the GE where all those millionaire Labour voters are supposedly so worried about a Labour government putting up taxes, making them poorer, etc, as you would have it.0 -
Curse of new thread. FPT.
Since when has Teresa May made a robust response to anything?Scott_P said:
I must say it’s a delight to watch the Brexiters froth and spin. I’d have more sympathy if there was any kind of plan for Brexit. But there isn’t. Instead it continues to fall to the EU to write the actual negotiating papers, and to Remainers to figure out how the hell to do it.
All Brexiters do is grizzle, impotently.
In the absence of logical argument, no wonder some seek psychosexual reasons for Brexit derangement.
Roll on a referendum on the deal.
We can’t go back, but we certainly ain’t going forward.0 -
Not exactly a nail biter is it? The absorption of almost all of the Catholic vote by Sinn Fein is one of the most depressing outcomes of the GFA.0
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And vice versa for the DUP.DavidL said:Not exactly a nail biter is it? The absorption of almost all of the Catholic vote by Sinn Fein is one of the most depressing outcomes of the GFA.
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Put it this way - if I achieve a 30% swing I'll still lose!Pulpstar said:
Which ward are you running in, and do youSandyRentool said:2nd - like me on Thursday!
a) Want
b) Expect
to win ?0 -
Nominations for the by-election:
Sinn Féin - Órfhlaith Begley
DUP - Thomas Buchanan
Alliance - Stephen Donnelly
SDLP - Daniel McCrossan
UUP - Chris Smyth
Does NI not do comedy by-election candidates?0 -
look on the bright sideGardenwalker said:
And vice versa for the DUP.DavidL said:Not exactly a nail biter is it? The absorption of almost all of the Catholic vote by Sinn Fein is one of the most depressing outcomes of the GFA.
either way it's a leaver win0 -
Tony's legacy - thanksDavidL said:Not exactly a nail biter is it? The absorption of almost all of the Catholic vote by Sinn Fein is one of the most depressing outcomes of the GFA.
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@Cyclefree
"A man claiming to "identify" as a woman without taking any actual steps to make that a reality and without any medical diagnosis of his condition and wanting to take the place of women is not a victim but a bully. And, frankly, women have had enough of men bullying them and telling them that they know best. Now we have some of them telling us what it is to be a woman. Well, they can fuck off, frankly."
I am see any evidence that more than a trivial number of these people exist.
All the people I know (admittedly only a handful) who consider themselves transgender have spent years and years establishing/coming to terms with that.0 -
Yes they're called [Sinn Féin/the DUP] (delete as applicable)tlg86 said:Nominations for the by-election:
Sinn Féin - Órfhlaith Begley
DUP - Thomas Buchanan
Alliance - Stephen Donnelly
SDLP - Daniel McCrossan
UUP - Chris Smyth
Does NI not do comedy by-election candidates?0 -
@NigelB:
"Regarding our conversation yesterday, I note that half of Australia has decriminalised prostitution for a while now. There is evidence which tends to support both your and my views on the matter - while there do seem to be improvements in terms of health and reduction in coercion, overall it still looks a pretty nasty business, organised crime appears still to be involved, and the prevalence of the activity has (at least visibly) increased.
Unbiased commentary is hard to come by.
What is clear is that decriminalisation is no panacea - though I still think a Royal Commission would be a good idea."
Thanks. Interesting. A Royal Commission would probably be a good idea but don't see any party taking this up as a priority.
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As a means of integrating the communities the GFA has been a total failure. As a means of bribing violent people to keep the peace it has been a success. But the price has been very high.Alanbrooke said:
Tony's legacy - thanksDavidL said:Not exactly a nail biter is it? The absorption of almost all of the Catholic vote by Sinn Fein is one of the most depressing outcomes of the GFA.
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fraid soDavidL said:
As a means of integrating the communities the GFA has been a total failure. As a means of bribing violent people to keep the peace it has been a success. But the price has been very high.Alanbrooke said:
Tony's legacy - thanksDavidL said:Not exactly a nail biter is it? The absorption of almost all of the Catholic vote by Sinn Fein is one of the most depressing outcomes of the GFA.
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Well, yesterday I enraged a few on here by saying that I did not think prostitution was something to be encouraged.
So, today, I'm going to try enrage a few more and post my response to @NickPalmer (fpt) on transgender people on all-women shortlists.
This is what Mr P said:
"I know people on both sides of this argument who feel very strongly. The argument for the party's position is that we really can't get involved in physical examinations to determine degrees of gender and the common sense solution is to let people decide what they are. The argument against is that even after the op a trans woman won't have experienced the difficulties that women often have as they grow up even in today's society.
I've avoided taking a view, as it's not something I'm really qualified to judge, but I can see both sides. Regardless, though, it's the sort of issue that we should not be preoccupied with as the main opposition."
No. The common-sense position is to say that if someone has been diagnosed by a doctor and is taking steps to transition then they are transgender. If they are not doing so and still have all their male genitalia then they are a male and should not be on all-women shortlists or in women's loos and changing rooms.
A man claiming to "identify" as a woman without taking any actual steps to make that a reality and without any medical diagnosis of his condition and wanting to take the place of women is not a victim but a bully. And, frankly, women have had enough of men bullying them and telling them that they know best. Now we have some of them telling us what it is to be a woman. Well, they can fuck off, frankly.
People who are genuinely transgender deserve all necessary help and support. But too many of those claiming to be fighting for transgender rights seem to me to want "rights" on the basis of the flimsiest of evidence and at the expense of women. And there are too many who are too scared to call them out on this.0 -
Hardly surprising since the British and Irish governments had determinedly undermined the peaceful parties e.g. the SDLP.DavidL said:Not exactly a nail biter is it? The absorption of almost all of the Catholic vote by Sinn Fein is one of the most depressing outcomes of the GFA.
There's a lesson there for Israel which, by refusing to deal with the PLO (though it was not very peaceful but could have been won over with some meaningful concessions) ended up facing a much more intransigent foe in Hamas etc and might well, God help us, end up in future facing groups which make Hamas look like a walk in the park (think IS-squared).
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Cyclefree said:
A man claiming to "identify" as a woman without taking any actual steps to make that a reality and without any medical diagnosis of his condition and wanting to take the place of women is not a victim but a bully. And, frankly, women have had enough of men bullying them and telling them that they know best. Now we have some of them telling us what it is to be a woman. Well, they can fuck off, frankly.
I am yet to see any evidence that more than a trivial number of these people exist.
All the people I know (admittedly only a handful) who consider themselves transgender have spent years and years establishing/coming to terms with that.0 -
The racist antisemitic party.....
https://order-order.com/2018/05/01/labour-activists-brand-first-bame-home-secretary-coconut-and-uncle-tom/0 -
I am sure. But they usually do so with the help of doctors and others etc. There seem to be some - maybe a very few who are vocal - who are not doing this. I do not like the idea (or the proposal from the government) that someone can call themselves a woman without any sort of independent verification or medical diagnosis and, thereby, get access to women's changing rooms, hostels, loos etc. That seems to me to leave an obvious loophole for a man intent on malice to get access to women when they are vulnerable.TheWhiteRabbit said:@Cyclefree
"A man claiming to "identify" as a woman without taking any actual steps to make that a reality and without any medical diagnosis of his condition and wanting to take the place of women is not a victim but a bully. And, frankly, women have had enough of men bullying them and telling them that they know best. Now we have some of them telling us what it is to be a woman. Well, they can fuck off, frankly."
I am see any evidence that more than a trivial number of these people exist.
All the people I know (admittedly only a handful) who consider themselves transgender have spent years and years establishing/coming to terms with that.0 -
Looking at that you might think that racism must be compulsory in the Labour Party now.FrancisUrquhart said:The racist antisemitic party.....
https://order-order.com/2018/05/01/labour-activists-brand-first-bame-home-secretary-coconut-and-uncle-tom/0 -
My wife was at the Women of Scotland lunch a week ago. One of the women present was in charge of some of the theatres in Edinburgh. She explained that they only had gender neutral toilets with urinals beside the cubicles. A transgender friend had apparently told her how wonderful this was. I suspect that there are a very large number of crossed legs in the second half.Cyclefree said:Well, yesterday I enraged a few on here by saying that I did not think prostitution was something to be encouraged.
So, today, I'm going to try enrage a few more and post my response to @NickPalmer (fpt) on transgender people on all-women shortlists.
This is what Mr P said:
"I know people on both sides of this argument who feel very strongly. The argument for the party's position is that we really can't get involved in physical examinations to determine degrees of gender and the common sense solution is to let people decide what they are. The argument against is that even after the op a trans woman won't have experienced the difficulties that women often have as they grow up even in today's society.
I've avoided taking a view, as it's not something I'm really qualified to judge, but I can see both sides. Regardless, though, it's the sort of issue that we should not be preoccupied with as the main opposition."
No. The common-sense position is to say that if someone has been diagnosed by a doctor and is taking steps to transition then they are transgender. If they are not doing so and still have all their male genitalia then they are a male and should not be on all-women shortlists or in women's loos and changing rooms.
A man claiming to "identify" as a woman without taking any actual steps to make that a reality and without any medical diagnosis of his condition and wanting to take the place of women is not a victim but a bully. And, frankly, women have had enough of men bullying them and telling them that they know best. Now we have some of them telling us what it is to be a woman. Well, they can fuck off, frankly.
People who are genuinely transgender deserve all necessary help and support. But too many of those claiming to be fighting for transgender rights seem to me to want "rights" on the basis of the flimsiest of evidence and at the expense of women. And there are too many who are too scared to call them out on this.
To me this shows a completely stupid and ridiculous over-compensation to make a vanishingly small group marginally happier at the cost of everyone else. Its self indulgent twaddle.0 -
I don't get how your gender can simply be a personal choice, which can defy your biology if you wish it to.Cyclefree said:
I am sure. But they usually do so with the help of doctors and others etc. There seem to be some - maybe a very few who are vocal - who are not doing this. I do not like the idea (or the proposal from the government) that someone can call themselves a woman without any sort of independent verification or medical diagnosis and, thereby, get access to women's changing rooms, hostels, loos etc. That seems to me to leave an obvious loophole for a man intent on malice to get access to women when they are vulnerable.TheWhiteRabbit said:@Cyclefree
"A man claiming to "identify" as a woman without taking any actual steps to make that a reality and without any medical diagnosis of his condition and wanting to take the place of women is not a victim but a bully. And, frankly, women have had enough of men bullying them and telling them that they know best. Now we have some of them telling us what it is to be a woman. Well, they can fuck off, frankly."
I am see any evidence that more than a trivial number of these people exist.
All the people I know (admittedly only a handful) who consider themselves transgender have spent years and years establishing/coming to terms with that.
But, no doubt I'm behind the times. My view may well be considered bigoted and liable to me sacked in a professional environment if I uttered it in, say, 10 years time.0 -
Indeed. One of my oldest and dearest schoolfriends always wanted to be a woman - and got suspended for stealing clothes from a girl's dorm. We knew each other at university as well, when he started experimenting more publicly. It took him until his early thirties, but he went through with the op. I've also known and worked with several others (the tech company seems to have a good share of transgender people).TheWhiteRabbit said:@Cyclefree
"A man claiming to "identify" as a woman without taking any actual steps to make that a reality and without any medical diagnosis of his condition and wanting to take the place of women is not a victim but a bully. And, frankly, women have had enough of men bullying them and telling them that they know best. Now we have some of them telling us what it is to be a woman. Well, they can fuck off, frankly."
I am see any evidence that more than a trivial number of these people exist.
All the people I know (admittedly only a handful) who consider themselves transgender have spent years and years establishing/coming to terms with that.
It's not like a binary process: one moment they're one gender, the next they're the other. It's a process, and a rather difficult and long-term one at that.
This does lead to all sorts of difficulties, and being 'fair' can be difficult: for instance, despite having had transgender friends and colleagues, I'm unsure it's 'fair' for someone to compete in a sport as their new gender, where they may get an advantage. This is, needless to say, a rather controversial view in some circles ...
But when it comes to things like all-women shortlists, which are stupid and counter-productive anyway, I think we should let people self-identify away. 0 -
Along with being a conspiracy theory nutter who only gets their news from Russia today and the morning star...glw said:
Looking at that you might think that racism must be compulsory in the Labour Party now.FrancisUrquhart said:The racist antisemitic party.....
https://order-order.com/2018/05/01/labour-activists-brand-first-bame-home-secretary-coconut-and-uncle-tom/0 -
The abstentionalist position is eternal and for ever but a united island of Ireland looks to now be on the horizon. Thanks to Brexit,a border poll seems inevitable.0
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How do you think they did that? It doesn't obviously seem in either the Tory's or Labour's interests. They have both lost their more natural supporters.Cyclefree said:
Hardly surprising since the British and Irish governments had determinedly undermined the peaceful parties e.g. the SDLP.DavidL said:Not exactly a nail biter is it? The absorption of almost all of the Catholic vote by Sinn Fein is one of the most depressing outcomes of the GFA.
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TheWhiteRabbit said:Cyclefree said:
A man claiming to "identify" as a woman without taking any actual steps to make that a reality and without any medical diagnosis of his condition and wanting to take the place of women is not a victim but a bully. And, frankly, women have had enough of men bullying them and telling them that they know best. Now we have some of them telling us what it is to be a woman. Well, they can fuck off, frankly.
I am yet to see any evidence that more than a trivial number of these people exist.
All the people I know (admittedly only a handful) who consider themselves transgender have spent years and years establishing/coming to terms with that.
Is it wrong to say I wouldn't mind being a woman for 24 hours just so I can figure out how they "work" ?TheWhiteRabbit said:Cyclefree said:A man claiming to "identify" as a woman without taking any actual steps to make that a reality and without any medical diagnosis of his condition and wanting to take the place of women is not a victim but a bully. And, frankly, women have had enough of men bullying them and telling them that they know best. Now we have some of them telling us what it is to be a woman. Well, they can fuck off, frankly.
I am yet to see any evidence that more than a trivial number of these people exist.
All the people I know (admittedly only a handful) who consider themselves transgender have spent years and years establishing/coming to terms with that.0 -
Start small. You could experiment by being a Europhile for 24 hours to see if you can keep it up.Casino_Royale said:TheWhiteRabbit said:Cyclefree said:A man claiming to "identify" as a woman without taking any actual steps to make that a reality and without any medical diagnosis of his condition and wanting to take the place of women is not a victim but a bully. And, frankly, women have had enough of men bullying them and telling them that they know best. Now we have some of them telling us what it is to be a woman. Well, they can fuck off, frankly.
I am yet to see any evidence that more than a trivial number of these people exist.
All the people I know (admittedly only a handful) who consider themselves transgender have spent years and years establishing/coming to terms with that.
Is it wrong to say I wouldn't mind being a woman for 24 hours just so I can figure out how they "work" ?TheWhiteRabbit said:Cyclefree said:A man claiming to "identify" as a woman without taking any actual steps to make that a reality and without any medical diagnosis of his condition and wanting to take the place of women is not a victim but a bully. And, frankly, women have had enough of men bullying them and telling them that they know best. Now we have some of them telling us what it is to be a woman. Well, they can fuck off, frankly.
I am yet to see any evidence that more than a trivial number of these people exist.
All the people I know (admittedly only a handful) who consider themselves transgender have spent years and years establishing/coming to terms with that.0 -
More optimistic, I would say.Casino_Royale said:TheWhiteRabbit said:Cyclefree said:A man claiming to "identify" as a woman without taking any actual steps to make that a reality and without any medical diagnosis of his condition and wanting to take the place of women is not a victim but a bully. And, frankly, women have had enough of men bullying them and telling them that they know best. Now we have some of them telling us what it is to be a woman. Well, they can fuck off, frankly.
I am yet to see any evidence that more than a trivial number of these people exist.
All the people I know (admittedly only a handful) who consider themselves transgender have spent years and years establishing/coming to terms with that.
Is it wrong to say I wouldn't mind being a woman for 24 hours just so I can figure out how they "work" ?TheWhiteRabbit said:Cyclefree said:A man claiming to "identify" as a woman without taking any actual steps to make that a reality and without any medical diagnosis of his condition and wanting to take the place of women is not a victim but a bully. And, frankly, women have had enough of men bullying them and telling them that they know best. Now we have some of them telling us what it is to be a woman. Well, they can fuck off, frankly.
I am yet to see any evidence that more than a trivial number of these people exist.
All the people I know (admittedly only a handful) who consider themselves transgender have spent years and years establishing/coming to terms with that.0 -
And the Tories won the 2 parliamentary seats in Kensington and Chelsea combined, Kensington and Chelsea and Fulham, by over 8000 votesTOPPING said:fpt
And the Tories won Rutland and Melton by 23,000 so the fuck what?HYUFD said:
Labour won Kensington by just 20 votes, the Tories won Chelsea and Fulham by thousandsTOPPING said:
Good point because at the GE Labour got a whooping in Kensington, didn't they.HYUFD said:
Well if Labour win Kensington and Chelsea on Thursday I will admit I was wrong, that is a big if howeverQuincel said:
I'm not on the doorstep preaching this, I'm observing voter shifts and trying to understand it. Why do you think Labour's popularity in London is at record highs?HYUFD said:
29% is less than a third, as I said the majority of Kensington and Chelsea residents are very wealthy indeed.Quincel said:
29% of children in Kensington and Chelsea live in poverty, it's an area of extreme wealth but far from universally so*. And even the Haves don't like the idea of their children not having the opportunities they had - the relative decline in housing affordability is the key, not the absolute position.HYUFD said:
In your mind maybe, most people living in Kensington and Chelsea are multi millionaires and are more worried by Labour councils slashing the value of their wealth.
If you are going to go on about getting more people on the housing ladder speak to the LDs, who both want to keep free movement and along with the Residents Associations are the NIMBYiest party around
*(the London figure is 37%, I'm not denying K&C is a richer area than most, for sure)
The 'Haves' are richer in asset terms than their parents could even dream of so again your politics of resentment and envy fails there in Kensington and Chelsea too
Labour won Kensington at the GE where all those millionaire Labour voters are supposedly so worried about a Labour government putting up taxes, making them poorer, etc, as you would have it.0 -
Unfortunately you would be considered transphobic by most of the modern left.Cyclefree said:
I am sure. But they usually do so with the help of doctors and others etc. There seem to be some - maybe a very few who are vocal - who are not doing this. I do not like the idea (or the proposal from the government) that someone can call themselves a woman without any sort of independent verification or medical diagnosis and, thereby, get access to women's changing rooms, hostels, loos etc. That seems to me to leave an obvious loophole for a man intent on malice to get access to women when they are vulnerable.TheWhiteRabbit said:@Cyclefree
"A man claiming to "identify" as a woman without taking any actual steps to make that a reality and without any medical diagnosis of his condition and wanting to take the place of women is not a victim but a bully. And, frankly, women have had enough of men bullying them and telling them that they know best. Now we have some of them telling us what it is to be a woman. Well, they can fuck off, frankly."
I am see any evidence that more than a trivial number of these people exist.
All the people I know (admittedly only a handful) who consider themselves transgender have spent years and years establishing/coming to terms with that.0 -
From end of previous thread is reply to HYUFD :
Litter, broken street lights, damaged paving, bins, flytipping, clean parks and, yes, indeed potholes.
All of that plus the poor record of the Labour councillors who have taken the voters for granted here for so long.
And in reply to JosiasJessop:
I wouldn't mind betting that more people in my city have seen our leaflets than have seen our PPB... even I haven't watched it, to be honest.
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I think it would be a thumping victory for the unionistsvolcanopete said:The abstentionalist position is eternal and for ever but a united island of Ireland looks to now be on the horizon. Thanks to Brexit,a border poll seems inevitable.
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I think it's only you that gets consistently that "excited" about the EU.williamglenn said:
Start small. You could experiment by being a Europhile for 24 hours to see if you can keep it up.Casino_Royale said:TheWhiteRabbit said:Cyclefree said:A man claiming to "identify" as a woman without taking any actual steps to make that a reality and without any medical diagnosis of his condition and wanting to take the place of women is not a victim but a bully. And, frankly, women have had enough of men bullying them and telling them that they know best. Now we have some of them telling us what it is to be a woman. Well, they can fuck off, frankly.
I am yet to see any evidence that more than a trivial number of these people exist.
All the people I know (admittedly only a handful) who consider themselves transgender have spent years and years establishing/coming to terms with that.
Is it wrong to say I wouldn't mind being a woman for 24 hours just so I can figure out how they "work" ?TheWhiteRabbit said:Cyclefree said:A man claiming to "identify" as a woman without taking any actual steps to make that a reality and without any medical diagnosis of his condition and wanting to take the place of women is not a victim but a bully. And, frankly, women have had enough of men bullying them and telling them that they know best. Now we have some of them telling us what it is to be a woman. Well, they can fuck off, frankly.
I am yet to see any evidence that more than a trivial number of these people exist.
All the people I know (admittedly only a handful) who consider themselves transgender have spent years and years establishing/coming to terms with that.0 -
In good company with germaine Greer and Peter tatchell.MaxPB said:
Unfortunately you would be considered transphobic by most of the modern left.Cyclefree said:
I am sure. But they usually do so with the help of doctors and others etc. There seem to be some - maybe a very few who are vocal - who are not doing this. I do not like the idea (or the proposal from the government) that someone can call themselves a woman without any sort of independent verification or medical diagnosis and, thereby, get access to women's changing rooms, hostels, loos etc. That seems to me to leave an obvious loophole for a man intent on malice to get access to women when they are vulnerable.TheWhiteRabbit said:@Cyclefree
"A man claiming to "identify" as a woman without taking any actual steps to make that a reality and without any medical diagnosis of his condition and wanting to take the place of women is not a victim but a bully. And, frankly, women have had enough of men bullying them and telling them that they know best. Now we have some of them telling us what it is to be a woman. Well, they can fuck off, frankly."
I am see any evidence that more than a trivial number of these people exist.
All the people I know (admittedly only a handful) who consider themselves transgender have spent years and years establishing/coming to terms with that.0 -
I agree with that. Moreover , to a large extent I believe the demand for All Women Shortlists within the Labour Party in the mid-1990s - under Blair - reflected the narrow views of activists - rather than the electorate at large.I recall no pressure from the wider public for such a move.DavidL said:
My wife was at the Women of Scotland lunch a week ago. One of the women present was in charge of some of the theatres in Edinburgh. She explained that they only had gender neutral toilets with urinals beside the cubicles. A transgender friend had apparently told her how wonderful this was. I suspect that there are a very large number of crossed legs in the second half.Cyclefree said:Well, yesterday I enraged a few on here by saying that I did not think prostitution was something to be encouraged.
So, today, I'm going to try enrage a few more and post my response to @NickPalmer (fpt) on transgender people on all-women shortlists.
This is what Mr P said:
"I know people on both sides of this argument who feel very strongly. The argument for the party's position is that we really can't get involved in physical examinations to determine degrees of gender and the common sense solution is to let people decide what they are. The argument against is that even after the op a trans woman won't have experienced the difficulties that women often have as they grow up even in today's society.
I've avoided taking a view, as it's not something I'm really qualified to judge, but I can see both sides. Regardless, though, it's the sort of issue that we should not be preoccupied with as the main opposition."
No. The common-sense position is to say that if someone has been diagnosed by a doctor and is taking steps to transition then they are transgender. If they are not doing so and still have all their male genitalia then they are a male and should not be on all-women shortlists or in women's loos and changing rooms.
A man claiming to "identify" as a woman without taking any actual steps to make that a reality and without any medical diagnosis of his condition and wanting to take the place of women is not a victim but a bully. And, frankly, women have had enough of men bullying them and telling them that they know best. Now we have some of them telling us what it is to be a woman. Well, they can fuck off, frankly.
People who are genuinely transgender deserve all necessary help and support. But too many of those claiming to be fighting for transgender rights seem to me to want "rights" on the basis of the flimsiest of evidence and at the expense of women. And there are too many who are too scared to call them out on this.
To me this shows a completely stupid and ridiculous over-compensation to make a vanishingly small group marginally happier at the cost of everyone else. Its self indulgent twaddle.0 -
The EU is using Dublin like a dockside hooker.
Most likely outcome of this is Irexit in 10-15 years max.0 -
Good luck Sandy!SandyRentool said:
Put it this way - if I achieve a 30% swing I'll still lose!Pulpstar said:
Which ward are you running in, and do youSandyRentool said:2nd - like me on Thursday!
a) Want
b) Expect
to win ?
I am a little bit closer, I need a 10.5% swing to win the ward I am standing in but still a long shot0 -
I suspect you are in the former hunting ground of John Biggs- Davidson?HYUFD said:
Good luck Sandy!SandyRentool said:
Put it this way - if I achieve a 30% swing I'll still lose!Pulpstar said:
Which ward are you running in, and do youSandyRentool said:2nd - like me on Thursday!
a) Want
b) Expect
to win ?
I am a little bit closer, I need a 10.5% swing to win the ward I am standing in but still a long shot0 -
If it's Harewood you're running in for Labour then you'll take it with a 30% swing, so Gipton & Harehills as either Green or TUSC I presume...SandyRentool said:
Put it this way - if I achieve a 30% swing I'll still lose!Pulpstar said:
Which ward are you running in, and do youSandyRentool said:2nd - like me on Thursday!
a) Want
b) Expect
to win ? 0 -
Indeed and Tebbit, Steve Norris and Churchill too at one time or another, currently Deputy Speaker Eleanor Laing is our MP but this is council level only of coursejustin124 said:
I suspect you are in the former hunting ground of John Biggs- Davidson?HYUFD said:
Good luck Sandy!SandyRentool said:
Put it this way - if I achieve a 30% swing I'll still lose!Pulpstar said:
Which ward are you running in, and do youSandyRentool said:2nd - like me on Thursday!
a) Want
b) Expect
to win ?
I am a little bit closer, I need a 10.5% swing to win the ward I am standing in but still a long shot0 -
I see Viscount Hailsham AKA (AKA Douglas Hogg Ex-MP) was one of the Tory Peers voting to block the democratic will of the British people over Brexit... The same multi-millionaire Viscount Hailsham who charged tax-payers £2000 to have his moat cleaned.
#forshame #forshame
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mps-expenses/5310069/MPs-expenses-Clearing-the-moat-at-Douglas-Hoggs-manor.html0 -
The parallels with Trumpism are obvious to me, a different politics obviously but the behaviour is almost identical.FrancisUrquhart said:
Along with being a conspiracy theory nutter who only gets their news from Russia today and the morning star...glw said:
Looking at that you might think that racism must be compulsory in the Labour Party now.FrancisUrquhart said:The racist antisemitic party.....
https://order-order.com/2018/05/01/labour-activists-brand-first-bame-home-secretary-coconut-and-uncle-tom/0 -
"The winner of the first Westminster by-elections of the Parliament is unlikely even to take his seat"
"His"? ???0 -
Just nonsensevolcanopete said:The abstentionalist position is eternal and for ever but a united island of Ireland looks to now be on the horizon. Thanks to Brexit,a border poll seems inevitable.
the abstensionist position also applied to the RoI then was changed
the abstenstionist position also applied to Stormont then changed
at some point it will change for Westminster as people get pissed of not being represented
as for a UI we have yet to see how the south will afford it and if there are enough people up north who want 30% cut in their living standard
NI is pluraliity catholic under the age of 35 consistently a large chunk of that community show no great urge for unification . In any event the fastest growing segment in NI is no religion which is impacting the sectarian headcount on both sides. No religion was 17% at the last census and growing.
As for Brexit and a border poll imo the two parties which always go to the brink and beyond ( NI and EU ) will simply come up with another fudge as they always do
0 -
Quote: One of the women present was in charge of some of the theatres in Edinburgh. She explained that they only had gender neutral toilets with urinals beside the cubicles. UnquoteDavidL said:
My wife was at the Women of Scotland lunch a week ago. One of the women present was in charge of some of the theatres in Edinburgh. She explained that they only had gender neutral toilets with urinals beside the cubicles. A transgender friend had apparently told her how wonderful this was. I suspect that there are a very large number of crossed legs in the second half.Cyclefree said:Well, yesterday I enraged a few on here by saying that I did not think prostitution was something to be encouraged.
So, today, I'm going to try enrage a few more and post my response to @NickPalmer (fpt) on transgender people on all-women shortlists.
This is what Mr P said:
"I know people on both sides of this argument who feel very strongly. The argument for the party's position is that we really can't get involved in physical examinations to determine degrees of gender and the common sense solution is to let people decide what they are. The argument against is that even after the op a trans woman won't have experienced the difficulties that women often have as they grow up even in today's society.
I've avoided taking a view, as it's not something I'm really qualified to judge, but I can see both sides. Regardless, though, it's the sort of issue that we should not be preoccupied with as the main opposition."
No. The common-sense position is to say that if someone has been diagnosed by a doctor and is taking steps to transition then they are transgender. If they are not doing so and still have all their male genitalia then they are a male and should not be on all-women shortlists or in women's loos and changing rooms.
A man claiming to "identify" as a woman without taking any actual steps to make that a reality and without any medical diagnosis of his condition and wanting to take the place of women is not a victim but a bully. And, frankly, women have had enough of men bullying them and telling them that they know best. Now we have some of them telling us what it is to be a woman. Well, they can fuck off, frankly.
People who are genuinely transgender deserve all necessary help and support. But too many of those claiming to be fighting for transgender rights seem to me to want "rights" on the basis of the flimsiest of evidence and at the expense of women. And there are too many who are too scared to call them out on this.
To me this shows a completely stupid and ridiculous over-compensation to make a vanishingly small group marginally happier at the cost of everyone else. Its self indulgent twaddle.
Blimey, you’d think people could make up their minds before that point in the day!0 -
Casino_Royale said:TheWhiteRabbit said:Cyclefree said:
A man claiming to "identify" as a woman without taking any actual steps to make that a reality and without any medical diagnosis of his condition and wanting to take the place of women is not a victim but a bully. And, frankly, women have had enough of men bullying them and telling them that they know best. Now we have some of them telling us what it is to be a woman. Well, they can fuck off, frankly.
I am yet to see any evidence that more than a trivial number of these people exist.
All the people I know (admittedly only a handful) who consider themselves transgender have spent years and years establishing/coming to terms with that.
Is it wrong to say I wouldn't mind being a woman for 24 hours just so I can figure out how they "work" ?TheWhiteRabbit said:Cyclefree said:A man claiming to "identify" as a woman without taking any actual steps to make that a reality and without any medical diagnosis of his condition and wanting to take the place of women is not a victim but a bully. And, frankly, women have had enough of men bullying them and telling them that they know best. Now we have some of them telling us what it is to be a woman. Well, they can fuck off, frankly.
I am yet to see any evidence that more than a trivial number of these people exist.
All the people I know (admittedly only a handful) who consider themselves transgender have spent years and years establishing/coming to terms with that.
Typical man thinks he can understand everything about being a woman in just 1 day...
;-)
0 -
Biggs-Davidson held the former Chigwell seat until it ceased to exist in February 1974 - when he became MP for the new Epping Forest division. Tebbit defeated Stan Newens in the old Epping seat in 1970 and from 1974 he represented Chingford. I believe Churchill represnted a much bigger - and more rural - Epping seat from 1924 until 1945 . Thereafter, he had the much more compact seat of Woodford.HYUFD said:
Indeed and Tebbit, Steve Norris and Churchill too at one time or another, currently Deputy Speaker Eleanor Laing is our MP but this is council level only of coursejustin124 said:
I suspect you are in the former hunting ground of John Biggs- Davidson?HYUFD said:
Good luck Sandy!SandyRentool said:
Put it this way - if I achieve a 30% swing I'll still lose!Pulpstar said:
Which ward are you running in, and do youSandyRentool said:2nd - like me on Thursday!
a) Want
b) Expect
to win ?
I am a little bit closer, I need a 10.5% swing to win the ward I am standing in but still a long shot0 -
Quote: In any event the fastest growing segment in NI is no religion which is impacting the sectarian headcount on both sides. No religion was 17% at the last census and growing. Unquote.Alanbrooke said:
Just nonsensevolcanopete said:The abstentionalist position is eternal and for ever but a united island of Ireland looks to now be on the horizon. Thanks to Brexit,a border poll seems inevitable.
the abstensionist position also applied to the RoI then was changed
the abstenstionist position also applied to Stormont then changed
at some point it will change for Westminster as people get pissed of not being represented
as for a UI we have yet to see how the south will afford it and if there are enough people up north who want 30% cut in their living standard
NI is pluraliity catholic under the age of 35 consistently a large chunk of that community show no great urge for unification . In any event the fastest growing segment in NI is no religion which is impacting the sectarian headcount on both sides. No religion was 17% at the last census and growing.
As for Brexit and a border poll imo the two parties which always go to the brink and beyond ( NI and EU ) will simply come up with another fudge as they always do
Ah, but are they Protestant no religionists or Catholic ones?0 -
"DUP-Sinn Fein"! Lord Maginnis actually said that in the wake of the Ulster Unionists losing West Tyrone in 1997 (I think)TheWhiteRabbit said:
Yes they're called [Sinn Féin/the DUP] (delete as applicable)tlg86 said:Nominations for the by-election:
Sinn Féin - Órfhlaith Begley
DUP - Thomas Buchanan
Alliance - Stephen Donnelly
SDLP - Daniel McCrossan
UUP - Chris Smyth
Does NI not do comedy by-election candidates?0 -
Their argument is different. To them, it doesn't matter if you go through a process, however long it takes - you still do not have the experience of a cisgender woman.FrancisUrquhart said:
In good company with germaine Greer and Peter tatchell.MaxPB said:
Unfortunately you would be considered transphobic by most of the modern left.Cyclefree said:
I am sure. But they usually do so with the help of doctors and others etc. There seem to be some - maybe a very few who are vocal - who are not doing this. I do not like the idea (or the proposal from the government) that someone can call themselves a woman without any sort of independent verification or medical diagnosis and, thereby, get access to women's changing rooms, hostels, loos etc. That seems to me to leave an obvious loophole for a man intent on malice to get access to women when they are vulnerable.TheWhiteRabbit said:@Cyclefree
"A man claiming to "identify" as a woman without taking any actual steps to make that a reality and without any medical diagnosis of his condition and wanting to take the place of women is not a victim but a bully. And, frankly, women have had enough of men bullying them and telling them that they know best. Now we have some of them telling us what it is to be a woman. Well, they can fuck off, frankly."
I am see any evidence that more than a trivial number of these people exist.
All the people I know (admittedly only a handful) who consider themselves transgender have spent years and years establishing/coming to terms with that.
@Cyclefree
Please could you identify a"fake" transgender person who wants to use women's toilets but who should not be allowed to, because I can only assume a legal process is a question of "fake"/"real".
0 -
Good afternoon, everyone.
Cheers for this, Mr. Hayfield.0 -
Don't think call them SF-IRA in some parts? That would make the whole lot the DUP-Sinn-Féin-IRA which is a bit of a mouthful.Sunil_Prasannan said:
"DUP-Sinn Fein"! Lord Maginnis actually said that in the wake of the Ulster Unionists losing West Tyrone in 1997 (I think)TheWhiteRabbit said:
Yes they're called [Sinn Féin/the DUP] (delete as applicable)tlg86 said:Nominations for the by-election:
Sinn Féin - Órfhlaith Begley
DUP - Thomas Buchanan
Alliance - Stephen Donnelly
SDLP - Daniel McCrossan
UUP - Chris Smyth
Does NI not do comedy by-election candidates?0 -
May we both get the results we deserve...HYUFD said:
Good luck Sandy!SandyRentool said:
Put it this way - if I achieve a 30% swing I'll still lose!Pulpstar said:
Which ward are you running in, and do youSandyRentool said:2nd - like me on Thursday!
a) Want
b) Expect
to win ?
I am a little bit closer, I need a 10.5% swing to win the ward I am standing in but still a long shot0 -
Not quite the same but here Blair White lives as a man for the day:Casino_Royale said:TheWhiteRabbit said:Cyclefree said:A man claiming to "identify" as a woman without taking any actual steps to make that a reality and without any medical diagnosis of his condition and wanting to take the place of women is not a victim but a bully. And, frankly, women have had enough of men bullying them and telling them that they know best. Now we have some of them telling us what it is to be a woman. Well, they can fuck off, frankly.
I am yet to see any evidence that more than a trivial number of these people exist.
All the people I know (admittedly only a handful) who consider themselves transgender have spent years and years establishing/coming to terms with that.
Is it wrong to say I wouldn't mind being a woman for 24 hours just so I can figure out how they "work" ?TheWhiteRabbit said:Cyclefree said:A man claiming to "identify" as a woman without taking any actual steps to make that a reality and without any medical diagnosis of his condition and wanting to take the place of women is not a victim but a bully. And, frankly, women have had enough of men bullying them and telling them that they know best. Now we have some of them telling us what it is to be a woman. Well, they can fuck off, frankly.
I am yet to see any evidence that more than a trivial number of these people exist.
All the people I know (admittedly only a handful) who consider themselves transgender have spent years and years establishing/coming to terms with that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4pI36H91gA0 -
Off topic, what a brilliant use for technology:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/video_and_audio/headlines/43886039/drones-deliver-blood-and-medical-supplies-in-rwanda
0 -
A friend of mine was once asked "Are you a Protestant Jew or a Catholic Jew?"OldKingCole said:
Quote: In any event the fastest growing segment in NI is no religion which is impacting the sectarian headcount on both sides. No religion was 17% at the last census and growing. Unquote.Alanbrooke said:
Just nonsensevolcanopete said:The abstentionalist position is eternal and for ever but a united island of Ireland looks to now be on the horizon. Thanks to Brexit,a border poll seems inevitable.
the abstensionist position also applied to the RoI then was changed
the abstenstionist position also applied to Stormont then changed
at some point it will change for Westminster as people get pissed of not being represented
as for a UI we have yet to see how the south will afford it and if there are enough people up north who want 30% cut in their living standard
NI is pluraliity catholic under the age of 35 consistently a large chunk of that community show no great urge for unification . In any event the fastest growing segment in NI is no religion which is impacting the sectarian headcount on both sides. No religion was 17% at the last census and growing.
As for Brexit and a border poll imo the two parties which always go to the brink and beyond ( NI and EU ) will simply come up with another fudge as they always do
Ah, but are they Protestant no religionists or Catholic ones?0 -
On the other hand:TheWhiteRabbit said:
Their argument is different. To them, it doesn't matter if you go through a process, however long it takes - you still do not have the experience of a cisgender woman.FrancisUrquhart said:
In good company with germaine Greer and Peter tatchell.MaxPB said:
Unfortunately you would be considered transphobic by most of the modern left.Cyclefree said:
I am sure. But they usually do so with the help of doctors and others etc. There seem to be some - maybe a very few who are vocal - who are not doing this. I do not like the idea (or the proposal from the government) that someone can call themselves a woman without any sort of independent verification or medical diagnosis and, thereby, get access to women's changing rooms, hostels, loos etc. That seems to me to leave an obvious loophole for a man intent on malice to get access to women when they are vulnerable.TheWhiteRabbit said:@Cyclefree
"A man claiming to "identify" as a woman without taking any actual steps to make that a reality and without any medical diagnosis of his condition and wanting to take the place of women is not a victim but a bully. And, frankly, women have had enough of men bullying them and telling them that they know best. Now we have some of them telling us what it is to be a woman. Well, they can fuck off, frankly."
I am see any evidence that more than a trivial number of these people exist.
All the people I know (admittedly only a handful) who consider themselves transgender have spent years and years establishing/coming to terms with that.
@Cyclefree
Please could you identify a"fake" transgender person who wants to use women's toilets but who should not be allowed to, because I can only assume a legal process is a question of "fake"/"real".
https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/977072333453250561?s=190 -
When I got married to an Irish girl in Ireland fifty years ago, I was asked by the Catholic priest about my religion. When I replied I was an atheist he said "Thank God. I thought you might be a Protestant".OldKingCole said:
Quote: In any event the fastest growing segment in NI is no religion which is impacting the sectarian headcount on both sides. No religion was 17% at the last census and growing. Unquote.Alanbrooke said:
Just nonsensevolcanopete said:The abstentionalist position is eternal and for ever but a united island of Ireland looks to now be on the horizon. Thanks to Brexit,a border poll seems inevitable.
the abstensionist position also applied to the RoI then was changed
the abstenstionist position also applied to Stormont then changed
at some point it will change for Westminster as people get pissed of not being represented
as for a UI we have yet to see how the south will afford it and if there are enough people up north who want 30% cut in their living standard
NI is pluraliity catholic under the age of 35 consistently a large chunk of that community show no great urge for unification . In any event the fastest growing segment in NI is no religion which is impacting the sectarian headcount on both sides. No religion was 17% at the last census and growing.
As for Brexit and a border poll imo the two parties which always go to the brink and beyond ( NI and EU ) will simply come up with another fudge as they always do
Ah, but are they Protestant no religionists or Catholic ones?0 -
I would have thought that women are more likely to bogusly self-identify as men to access male toilets, as their usually isn't such a long queue.0
-
Mr. Rex, I remember someone here posting that Tim Marshall's replacement on Sky, covering a terrorist attack in India, described the site as a Hindu Mosque.
.....0 -
Cyclefree does not appear to be concerned with cisgender women being "fake" transgender men, although I'll take it. The irony of it being motivated by exactly the fear Cyclefree has is not lost though.Foxy said:
On the other hand:TheWhiteRabbit said:
Their argument is different. To them, it doesn't matter if you go through a process, however long it takes - you still do not have the experience of a cisgender woman.FrancisUrquhart said:
In good company with germaine Greer and Peter tatchell.MaxPB said:
Unfortunately you would be considered transphobic by most of the modern left.Cyclefree said:
I am sure. But they usually do so with the help of doctors and others etc. There seem to be some - maybe a very few who are vocal - who are not doing this. I do not like the idea (or the proposal from the government) that someone can call themselves a woman without any sort of independent verification or medical diagnosis and, thereby, get access to women's changing rooms, hostels, loos etc. That seems to me to leave an obvious loophole for a man intent on malice to get access to women when they are vulnerable.TheWhiteRabbit said:@Cyclefree
"A man claiming to "identify" as a woman without taking any actual steps to make that a reality and without any medical diagnosis of his condition and wanting to take the place of women is not a victim but a bully. And, frankly, women have had enough of men bullying them and telling them that they know best. Now we have some of them telling us what it is to be a woman. Well, they can fuck off, frankly."
I am see any evidence that more than a trivial number of these people exist.
All the people I know (admittedly only a handful) who consider themselves transgender have spent years and years establishing/coming to terms with that.
@Cyclefree
Please could you identify a"fake" transgender person who wants to use women's toilets but who should not be allowed to, because I can only assume a legal process is a question of "fake"/"real".
https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/977072333453250561?s=190 -
When they see the state of male bogs, they are highly likely to retreat to the queue!SandyRentool said:I would have thought that women are more likely to bogusly self-identify as men to access male toilets, as their usually isn't such a long queue.
0 -
A relation, not Itish is a cradle Catholic, but her parents subsequently left the Church and AFAIK she’s never been inside a Church of any sort except for ‘social’ events.... weddings and such. However, post Uni she took up with a Norn Protestant lad, some of whose family expressed concernern at his marrying ‘one of them’.Barnesian said:
When I got married to an Irish girl in Ireland fifty years ago, I was asked by the Catholic priest about my religion. When I replied I was an atheist he said "Thank God. I thought you might be a Protestant".OldKingCole said:
Quote: In any event the fastest growing segment in NI is no religion which is impacting the sectarian headcount on both sides. No religion was 17% at the last census and growing. Unquote.Alanbrooke said:
Just nonsensevolcanopete said:The abstentionalist position is eternal and for ever but a united island of Ireland looks to now be on the horizon. Thanks to Brexit,a border poll seems inevitable.
the abstensionist position also applied to the RoI then was changed
the abstenstionist position also applied to Stormont then changed
at some point it will change for Westminster as people get pissed of not being represented
as for a UI we have yet to see how the south will afford it and if there are enough people up north who want 30% cut in their living standard
NI is pluraliity catholic under the age of 35 consistently a large chunk of that community show no great urge for unification . In any event the fastest growing segment in NI is no religion which is impacting the sectarian headcount on both sides. No religion was 17% at the last census and growing.
As for Brexit and a border poll imo the two parties which always go to the brink and beyond ( NI and EU ) will simply come up with another fudge as they always do
Ah, but are they Protestant no religionists or Catholic ones?
That was about 16-17 years ago.0 -
Ooops - he said it in 2001 on Election Night when he himself lost Fermanagh & South Tyrone. I think he accused the DUP of splitting the Unionist vote, letting SF in.Sunil_Prasannan said:
"DUP-Sinn Fein"! Lord Maginnis actually said that in the wake of the Ulster Unionists losing West Tyrone in 1997 (I think)TheWhiteRabbit said:
Yes they're called [Sinn Féin/the DUP] (delete as applicable)tlg86 said:Nominations for the by-election:
Sinn Féin - Órfhlaith Begley
DUP - Thomas Buchanan
Alliance - Stephen Donnelly
SDLP - Daniel McCrossan
UUP - Chris Smyth
Does NI not do comedy by-election candidates?0 -
What on earth is the problem with gender neutral loos? Surely women should welcome this given the disparity at theatres especially in queue length when there are gendered loos?DavidL said:
My wife was at the Women of Scotland lunch a week ago. One of the women present was in charge of some of the theatres in Edinburgh. She explained that they only had gender neutral toilets with urinals beside the cubicles. A transgender friend had apparently told her how wonderful this was. I suspect that there are a very large number of crossed legs in the second half.Cyclefree said:Well, yesterday I enraged a few on here by saying that I did not think prostitution was something to be encouraged.
So, today, I'm going to try enrage a few more and post my response to @NickPalmer (fpt) on transgender people on all-women shortlists.
This is what Mr P said:
"I know people on both sides of this argument who feel very strongly. The argument for the party's position is that we really can't get involved in physical examinations to determine degrees of gender and the common sense solution is to let people decide what they are. The argument against is that even after the op a trans woman won't have experienced the difficulties that women often have as they grow up even in today's society.
I've avoided taking a view, as it's not something I'm really qualified to judge, but I can see both sides. Regardless, though, it's the sort of issue that we should not be preoccupied with as the main opposition."
No. The common-sense position is to say that if someone has been diagnosed by a doctor and is taking steps to transition then they are transgender. If they are not doing so and still have all their male genitalia then they are a male and should not be on all-women shortlists or in women's loos and changing rooms.
A man claiming to "identify" as a woman without taking any actual steps to make that a reality and without any medical diagnosis of his condition and wanting to take the place of women is not a victim but a bully. And, frankly, women have had enough of men bullying them and telling them that they know best. Now we have some of them telling us what it is to be a woman. Well, they can fuck off, frankly.
People who are genuinely transgender deserve all necessary help and support. But too many of those claiming to be fighting for transgender rights seem to me to want "rights" on the basis of the flimsiest of evidence and at the expense of women. And there are too many who are too scared to call them out on this.
To me this shows a completely stupid and ridiculous over-compensation to make a vanishingly small group marginally happier at the cost of everyone else. Its self indulgent twaddle.0 -
I think he actually described the Sri Harmandir Sahib as a mosque, when of course it is actually one of the most sacred sites of Sikhism.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Rex, I remember someone here posting that Tim Marshall's replacement on Sky, covering a terrorist attack in India, described the site as a Hindu Mosque.
.....0 -
As long as it is all cubicles, no problem, but mixing urinals and cubicles probably not.TOPPING said:
What on earth is the problem with gender neutral loos? Surely women should welcome this given the disparity at theatres especially in queue length when there are gendered loos?DavidL said:
My wife was at the Women of Scotland lunch a week ago. One of the women present was in charge of some of the theatres in Edinburgh. She explained that they only had gender neutral toilets with urinals beside the cubicles. A transgender friend had apparently told her how wonderful this was. I suspect that there are a very large number of crossed legs in the second half.Cyclefree said:Well, yesterday I enraged a few on here by saying that I did not think prostitution was something to be encouraged.
So, today, I'm going to try enrage a few more and post my response to @NickPalmer (fpt) on transgender people on all-women shortlists.
This is what Mr P said:
"I know people on both sides of this argument who feel very strongly. The argument for the party's position is that we really can't get involved in physical examinations to determine degrees of gender and the common sense solution is to let people decide what they are. The argument against is that even after the op a trans woman won't have experienced the difficulties that women often have as they grow up even in today's society.
I've avoided taking a view, as it's not something I'm really qualified to judge, but I can see both sides. Regardless, though, it's the sort of issue that we should not be preoccupied with as the main opposition."
No. The common-sense position is to say that if someone has been diagnosed by a doctor and is taking steps to transition then they are transgender. If they are not doing so and still have all their male genitalia then they are a male and should not be on all-women shortlists or in women's loos and changing rooms.
A man claiming to "identify" as a woman without taking any actual steps to make that a reality and without any medical diagnosis of his condition and wanting to take the place of women is not a victim but a bully. And, frankly, women have had enough of men bullying them and telling them that they know best. Now we have some of them telling us what it is to be a woman. Well, they can fuck off, frankly.
People who are genuinely transgender deserve all necessary help and support. But too many of those claiming to be fighting for transgender rights seem to me to want "rights" on the basis of the flimsiest of evidence and at the expense of women. And there are too many who are too scared to call them out on this.
To me this shows a completely stupid and ridiculous over-compensation to make a vanishingly small group marginally happier at the cost of everyone else. Its self indulgent twaddle.
0 -
Mr. Rex, I stand corrected
0 -
I thought the women’s was supposed to be the most hideous? Perhaps they are both equally as bad.Foxy said:
When they see the state of male bogs, they are highly likely to retreat to the queue!SandyRentool said:I would have thought that women are more likely to bogusly self-identify as men to access male toilets, as their usually isn't such a long queue.
0 -
Yes I can see that would be an issue.Foxy said:
As long as it is all cubicles, no problem, but mixing urinals and cubicles probably not.TOPPING said:
What on earth is the problem with gender neutral loos? Surely women should welcome this given the disparity at theatres especially in queue length when there are gendered loos?DavidL said:
My wife was at the Women of Scotland lunch a week ago. One of the women present was in charge of some of the theatres in Edinburgh. She explained that they only had gender neutral toilets with urinals beside the cubicles. A transgender friend had apparently told her how wonderful this was. I suspect that there are a very large number of crossed legs in the second half.Cyclefree said:Well, yesterday I enraged a few on here by saying that I did not think prostitution was something to be encouraged.
So, today, I'm going to try enrage a few more and post my response to @NickPalmer (fpt) on transgender people on all-women shortlists.
This is what Mr P said:
"I know people on both sides of this argumenng I'm really qualified to judge, but I can see both sides. Regardless, though, it's the sort of issue that we should not be preoccupied with as the main opposition."
No. The common-sense position is to say that if someone has been diagnosed by a doctor and is taking steps to transition then they are transgender. If they are not doing so and still have all their male genitalia then they are a male and should not be on all-women shortlists or in women's loos and changing rooms.
A man claiming to "identify" as a woman without taking any actual steps to make that a reality and without any medical diagnosis of his condition and wanting to take the place of women is not a victim but a bully. And, frankly, women have had enough of men bullying them and telling them that they know best. Now we have some of them telling us what it is to be a woman. Well, they can fuck off, frankly.
People who are genuinely transgender deserve all necessary help and support. But too many of those claiming to be fighting for transgender rights seem to me to want "rights" on the basis of the flimsiest of evidence and at the expense of women. And there are too many who are too scared to call them out on this.
To me this shows a completely stupid and ridiculous over-compensation to make a vanishingly small group marginally happier at the cost of everyone else. Its self indulgent twaddle.
Cubicles though seem a no-brainer and welcome for women as I (and @SandyRentool) noted.0 -
Unless the polls are completely wrong, the Tories ought to be looking to make gains outside London on Thursday. Why? Compare the opinion polls now with those just before the 2014 local elections. Labour were clearly ahead at that time.0
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OT
33% support Trumps visit
33% not bothered either way
31% against.
Also haven't there been two polls today with 5% and 3% conservative leads0 -
Mr. JS, any views on Trafford? I just checked my records and so far I want Labour to win there, Lib Dems to win in Sutton and the Conservatives to keep Barnet.0
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They would have to go into the men's toilets though, which is an experience to put them off for life.SandyRentool said:I would have thought that women are more likely to bogusly self-identify as men to access male toilets, as their usually isn't such a long queue.
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Trafford is likely to be one of Labour's better results due to favourable demographics. Your prediction looks good in all three places.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. JS, any views on Trafford? I just checked my records and so far I want Labour to win there, Lib Dems to win in Sutton and the Conservatives to keep Barnet.
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Mixing urinals and cubicles as a means of screaming’gender equality’ is plain daft.Foxy said:
As long as it is all cubicles, no problem, but mixing urinals and cubicles probably not.TOPPING said:
What on earth is the problem with gender neutral loos? Surely women should welcome this given the disparity at theatres especially in queue length when there are gendered loos?DavidL said:
My wife was at the Women of Scotland lunch a week ago. One of the women present was in charge of some of the theatres in Edinburgh. She explained that they only had gender neutral toilets with urinals beside the cubicles. A transgender friend had apparently told her how wonderful this was. I suspect that there are a very large number of crossed legs in the second half.Cyclefree said:Well, yesterday I enraged a few on here by saying that I did not think prostitution was something to be encouraged.
So, today, I'm going to try enrage a few more and post my response to @NickPalmer (fpt) on transgender people on all-women shortlists.
This is what Mr P said:
"I know people on both sides of this argument who feel very strongly. The argument for the party's position is that we really can't get involved in physical examinations to determine degrees of gender and the common sense solution is to let people decide what they are. The argument against is that even after the op a trans woman won't have experienced the difficulties that women often have as they grow up even in today's society.
I've avoided taking a view, as it's not something I'm really qualified to judge, but I can see both sides. Regardless, though, it's the sort of issue that we should not be preoccupied with as the main opposition."
A man claiming to "identify" as a woman without taking any actual steps to make that a reality and without any medical diagnosis of his condition and wanting to take the place of women is not a victim but a bully. And, frankly, women have had enough of men bullying them and telling them that they know best. Now we have some of them telling us what it is to be a woman. Well, they can fuck off, frankly.
People who are genuinely transgender deserve all necessary help and support. But too many of those claiming to be fighting for transgender rights seem to me to want "rights" on the basis of the flimsiest of evidence and at the expense of women. And there are too many who are too scared to call them out on this.
To me this shows a completely stupid and ridiculous over-compensation to make a vanishingly small group marginally happier at the cost of everyone else. Its self indulgent twaddle.0 -
They did it by not giving them any wins at the start of the Troubles. So the nationalist population worked out that to get anything out of the British they needed to vote for the hard men. Which is what they did. The fact that neither party competed for votes there did not help either.DavidL said:
How do you think they did that? It doesn't obviously seem in either the Tory's or Labour's interests. They have both lost their more natural supporters.Cyclefree said:
Hardly surprising since the British and Irish governments had determinedly undermined the peaceful parties e.g. the SDLP.DavidL said:Not exactly a nail biter is it? The absorption of almost all of the Catholic vote by Sinn Fein is one of the most depressing outcomes of the GFA.
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You could do that in a men's loo if you wanted to... there's a reason you don't...OldKingCole said:
Mixing urinals and cubicles as a means of screaming’gender equality’ is plain daft.Foxy said:
As long as it is all cubicles, no problem, but mixing urinals and cubicles probably not.TOPPING said:
What on earth is the problem with gender neutral loos? Surely women should welcome this given the disparity at theatres especially in queue length when there are gendered loos?DavidL said:
My wife was at the Women of Scotland lunch a week ago. One of the women present was in charge of some of the theatres in Edinburgh. She explained that they only had gender neutral toilets with urinals beside the cubicles. A transgender friend had apparently told her how wonderful this was. I suspect that there are a very large number of crossed legs in the second half.Cyclefree said:Well, yesterday I enraged a few on here by saying that I did not think prostitution was something to be encouraged.
So, today, I'm going to try enrage a few more and post my response to @NickPalmer (fpt) on transgender people on all-women shortlists.
This is what Mr P said:
"I know people on both sides of this argument who feel very strongly. The argument for the party's position is that we really can't get involved in physical examinations to determine degrees of gender and the common sense solution is to let people decide what they are. The argument against is that even after the op a trans woman won't have experienced the difficulties that women often have as they grow up even in today's society.
I've avoided taking a view, as it's not something I'm really qualified to judge, but I can see both sides. Regardless, though, it's the sort of issue that we should not be preoccupied with as the main opposition."
A man claiming to "identify" as a woman without taking any actual steps to make that a reality and without any medical diagnosis of his condition and wanting to take the place of women is not a victim but a bully. And, frankly, women have had enough of men bullying them and telling them that they know best. Now we have some of them telling us what it is to be a woman. Well, they can fuck off, frankly.
People who are genuinely transgender deserve all necessary help and support. But too many of those claiming to be fighting for transgender rights seem to me to want "rights" on the basis of the flimsiest of evidence and at the expense of women. And there are too many who are too scared to call them out on this.
To me this shows a completely stupid and ridiculous over-compensation to make a vanishingly small group marginally happier at the cost of everyone else. Its self indulgent twaddle.0 -
Made it to sunny Valencia, the flight was extremely bumpy along the way. Now 5 days of relaxation in the sun with my soon to be wife.
Life tip, never have a big wedding. It's the world's worst idea. Not only are people deciding things without our consent, we're going to end up paying for it all. We've come here to have a bit of calm before we go back and lay down the law. So far the total cost is coming in at £85k, which is, IMO way, way too much money being burned for one day of our lives.0 -
24 hours? Darling, you need a lifetime to work out how we "work". Even our beloveds - after years of living with us - seem to have difficulty understanding this.Casino_Royale said:TheWhiteRabbit said:Cyclefree said:A man claiming to "identify" as a woman without taking any actual steps to make that a reality and without any medical diagnosis of his condition and wanting to take the place of women is not a victim but a bully. And, frankly, women have had enough of men bullying them and telling them that they know best. Now we have some of them telling us what it is to be a woman. Well, they can fuck off, frankly.
I am yet to see any evidence that more than a trivial number of these people exist.
All the people I know (admittedly only a handful) who consider themselves transgender have spent years and years establishing/coming to terms with that.
Is it wrong to say I wouldn't mind being a woman for 24 hours just so I can figure out how they "work" ?TheWhiteRabbit said:Cyclefree said:A man claiming to "identify" as a woman without taking any actual steps to make that a reality and without any medical diagnosis of his condition and wanting to take the place of women is not a victim but a bully. And, frankly, women have had enough of men bullying them and telling them that they know best. Now we have some of them telling us what it is to be a woman. Well, they can fuck off, frankly.
I am yet to see any evidence that more than a trivial number of these people exist.
All the people I know (admittedly only a handful) who consider themselves transgender have spent years and years establishing/coming to terms with that.
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Just looked through the previous thread and couldn't find any comments referring to today's Guardian/ICM poll.0
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Life tip #2: stay off PB when you and your beloved are having a romantic trip to Valencia.MaxPB said:Made it to sunny Valencia, the flight was extremely bumpy along the way. Now 5 days of relaxation in the sun with my soon to be wife.
Life tip, never have a big wedding. It's the world's worst idea. Not only are people deciding things without our consent, we're going to end up paying for it all. We've come here to have a bit of calm before we go back and lay down the law. So far the total cost is coming in at £85k, which is, IMO way, way too much money being burned for one day of our lives.0 -
Why is this thread mostly discussing transgender issues?
Is Orfhlaith Begley transgender?
Is that why the headline refers to her as "his"?0 -
She's putting her face on so I've got a bit of time lol.TOPPING said:
Life tip #2: stay off PB when you and your beloved are having a romantic trip to Valencia.MaxPB said:Made it to sunny Valencia, the flight was extremely bumpy along the way. Now 5 days of relaxation in the sun with my soon to be wife.
Life tip, never have a big wedding. It's the world's worst idea. Not only are people deciding things without our consent, we're going to end up paying for it all. We've come here to have a bit of calm before we go back and lay down the law. So far the total cost is coming in at £85k, which is, IMO way, way too much money being burned for one day of our lives.0 -
Most recent 15 opinion polls: 1 Labour lead, which was ComRes on 12th April.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election#20180 -
Ouch!MaxPB said:Made it to sunny Valencia, the flight was extremely bumpy along the way. Now 5 days of relaxation in the sun with my soon to be wife.
Life tip, never have a big wedding. It's the world's worst idea. Not only are people deciding things without our consent, we're going to end up paying for it all. We've come here to have a bit of calm before we go back and lay down the law. So far the total cost is coming in at £85k, which is, IMO way, way too much money being burned for one day of our lives.0 -
Strewth.MaxPB said:Made it to sunny Valencia, the flight was extremely bumpy along the way. Now 5 days of relaxation in the sun with my soon to be wife.
Life tip, never have a big wedding. It's the world's worst idea. Not only are people deciding things without our consent, we're going to end up paying for it all. We've come here to have a bit of calm before we go back and lay down the law. So far the total cost is coming in at £85k, which is, IMO way, way too much money being burned for one day of our lives.
Would it be tactless at this point to ask if you ever saw the last few minutes of The Graduate??0 -
The dividing line should be a medical diagnosis and the start of treatment.TheWhiteRabbit said:
Their argument is different. To them, it doesn't matter if you go through a process, however long it takes - you still do not have the experience of a cisgender woman.FrancisUrquhart said:
In good company with germaine Greer and Peter tatchell.MaxPB said:
Unfortunately you would be considered transphobic by most of the modern left.Cyclefree said:
I am sure. But they usually do so with the help of doctors and others etc. There seem to be some - maybe a very few who are vocal - who are not doing this. I do not like the idea (or the proposal from the government) that someone can call themselves a woman without any sort of independent verification or medical diagnosis and, thereby, get access to women's changing rooms, hostels, loos etc. That seems to me to leave an obvious loophole for a man intent on malice to get access to women when they are vulnerable.TheWhiteRabbit said:@Cyclefree
"A man claiming to "identify" as a woman without taking any actual steps to make that a reality and without any medical diagnosis of his condition and wanting to take the place of women is not a victim but a bully. And, frankly, women have had enough of men bullying them and telling them that they know best. Now we have some of them telling us what it is to be a woman. Well, they can fuck off, frankly."
I am see any evidence that more than a trivial number of these people exist.
All the people I know (admittedly only a handful) who consider themselves transgender have spent years and years establishing/coming to terms with that.
@Cyclefree
Please could you identify a"fake" transgender person who wants to use women's toilets but who should not be allowed to, because I can only assume a legal process is a question of "fake"/"real".
Not someone waking up one morning and deciding that they "identify" as a woman.
If I were to announce in 15 minutes time that I "identified" as a man it wouldn't make me a man (or, indeed, transgender) nor should it allow me to wander into men's loos at will or compete in the men's section of Wimbledon Tennis, for instance.0 -
I've seen women brazenly walk into men's toilets lots of times in order to avoid the long queues at the female facilities. One example was at the NEC about five years ago. Usually it's a group of young women walking in together, presumably after psyching each other up to do it.0
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Matt Singh thinks there's another poll coming.Big_G_NorthWales said:OT
33% support Trumps visit
33% not bothered either way
31% against.
Also haven't there been two polls today with 5% and 3% conservative leads0 -
Mr. Max, blimey.0
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@AndyJS nunuone posted it on the previous thread.0
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In some parts of the US it would be enough.Cyclefree said:
The dividing line should be a medical diagnosis and the start of treatment.TheWhiteRabbit said:
Their argument is different. To them, it doesn't matter if you go through a process, however long it takes - you still do not have the experience of a cisgender woman.FrancisUrquhart said:
In good company with germaine Greer and Peter tatchell.MaxPB said:
Unfortunately you would be considered transphobic by most of the modern left.Cyclefree said:
I am sure. But they usually do so with the help of doctors and others etc. There seem to be some - maybe a very few who are vocal - who are not doing this. I do not like the idea (or the proposal from the government) that someone can call themselves a woman without any sort of independent verification or medical diagnosis and, thereby, get access to women's changing rooms, hostels, loos etc. That seems to me to leave an obvious loophole for a man intent on malice to get access to women when they are vulnerable.TheWhiteRabbit said:@Cyclefree
"A man claiming to "identify" as a woman without taking any actual steps to make that a reality and without any medical diagnosis of his condition and wanting to take the place of women is not a victim but a bully. And, frankly, women have had enough of men bullying them and telling them that they know best. Now we have some of them telling us what it is to be a woman. Well, they can fuck off, frankly."
I am see any evidence that more than a trivial number of these people exist.
All the people I know (admittedly only a handful) who consider themselves transgender have spent years and years establishing/coming to terms with that.
@Cyclefree
Please could you identify a"fake" transgender person who wants to use women's toilets but who should not be allowed to, because I can only assume a legal process is a question of "fake"/"real".
Not someone waking up one morning and deciding that they "identify" as a woman.
If I were to announce in 15 minutes time that I "identified" as a man it wouldn't make me a man (or, indeed, transgender) nor should it allow me to wander into men's loos at will or compete in the men's section of Wimbledon Tennis, for instance.0
