politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » After a chaotic day TMay’s position looks even weaker
Comments
-
The only prominent Leaver who should definitely (err) Leave is Dr Liam Fox.CarlottaVance said:
If “talent” was the only consideration then I’d agree - but much as a pilot’s first responsibility is to “fly the plane” a PM’s job is to “keep the show on the road” - sacking two prominent leavers while promoting Lidington would have made that more difficult. It’s a balancing act.rcs1000 said:
Personally, I would have said adieu to Dr Liam Fox, and moved Hammond out of the Treasury. (I would have offered him the Business role, and if he didn't want it, he could return to the backbenches.)CarlottaVance said:
The only practical way May could satisfy those calling for her to “stamp her authority” would have been to sack one or more of the key ministers (Boris, Hammond, Davis) thus making for herself a powerful enemy on the back benches itching for the leadership role. It’s a mystery why she chose not to do this. Those complaining about lack of continuity in sacking Greening (who declined another role, sacking herself) don’t appear to apply the same logic to Fox or Leadsome.....PantherDave said:Apologies if already mentioned but the failure to demote Andrea Leadsom stands out for me how feeble May has been in this shambles.
Boris is a difficult one: I don't think he enhances the prestige or standing of the United Kingdom, but he's a difficult man to sack. That being said, having demonstrated a willingness to fire senior people would have put Boris on notice.
I would have been tempted to promote Gove, but I think he's doing a good job in a ministry that needs an intelligent man at the helm through Brexit.
Greening, I would have kept in place. Leadsom is useless, goodbye. I would have promoted Kwasi Kwarteng into the Cabinet, perhaps taking Fox's role. People don't hate Kwasi, and he's really smart, which would be an enormous relief to both our trading partners and the civil servants at the DfIT.
How about this:
Gove (Leaver) promoted to CoE
Hammond (Remainer) demoted to Business
Dr Liam Fox (Leaver) to back benches
Kwasi Kwarteng (Leaver) to DfIT
JRM (Leaver) to Leader of the House
Andrea Leadsom (Leaver) to her own house
Rory Stewart (Remainer) to DfID
Gavin Williamson (no idea) to DEFRA
Penny Morduant (Leaver) to Defence
(And for the record, I think we should be looking beyond Leave and Remain. Rory Stewart was a Remainer and deserves a chance, for example. I care far more about competence.)0 -
@rcs1000 - In your favourite Gaitskell speech about Europe (https://www.cvce.eu/content/publication/1999/1/1/05f2996b-000b-4576-8b42-8069033a16f9/publishable_en.pdf), he refers to the side of the European movement that he does not like, and mentions their 'anti-Russian' 'intransigence over Berlin'.
Did you know that what he was advocating was a reunified Germany as part of a 'neutral zone' as an alternative to unilateral disarmament? Adenauer regarded him as 'anathema', with good reason (https://books.google.com/books?id=LymHDAAAQBAJ).0 -
If May was in a stronger position she might well have been bolder, meanwhile her main job is 'to keep the show on the road' - nothing in this reshuffle makes that less likely. Minister didn't want new job & resigned is hardly up there with Howe or Lawson.....rcs1000 said:
I care far more about competence.CarlottaVance said:
If “talent” was the only consideration then I’d agree - but much as a pilot’s first responsibility is to “fly the plane” a PM’s job is to “keep the show on the road” - sacking two prominent leavers while promoting Lidington would have made that more difficult. It’s a balancing act.rcs1000 said:
Personally, I would have said adieu to Dr Liam Fox, and moved Hammond out of the Treasury. (I would have offered him the Business role, and if he didn't want it, he could return to the backbenches.)CarlottaVance said:
The only practical way May could satisfy those calling for her to “stamp her authority” would have been to sack one or more of the key ministers (Boris, Hammond, Davis) thus making for herself a powerful enemy on the back benches itching for the leadership role. It’s a mystery why she chose not to do this. Those complaining about lack of continuity in sacking Greening (who declined another role, sacking herself) don’t appear to apply the same logic to Fox or Leadsome.....PantherDave said:Apologies if already mentioned but the failure to demote Andrea Leadsom stands out for me how feeble May has been in this shambles.
Boris is a difficult one: I don't think he enhances the prestige or standing of the United Kingdom, but he's a difficult man to sack. That being said, having demonstrated a willingness to fire senior people would have put Boris on notice.
I would have been tempted to promote Gove, but I think he's doing a good job in a ministry that needs an intelligent man at the helm through Brexit.
Greening, I would have kept in place. Leadsom is useless, goodbye. I would have promoted Kwasi Kwarteng into the Cabinet, perhaps taking Fox's role. People don't hate Kwasi, and he's really smart, which would be an enormous relief to both our trading partners and the civil servants at the DfIT.0 -
The sane moiety of the Labour party also know that, despite his intimations of immortality, JC and his attendant project isn't going to be around for ever. At some point the moderates will be back in control of the party and in government to begin the work of getting us back in the EU.TheJezziah said:
Brexit isn't anywhere near the top issue for Labour voters the same way it is for Conservative voters or for many on here. That attempted wedge in the Labour support against Corbyn has been tried multiple times and failed miserably because it isn't the main issue.
0 -
I thought that was David Miliband's job.HYUFD said:
Chuka sees himself as the Messiah of pro European and metropolitan liberals, he will bide his time in the Wilderness until he is called to lead his party back to the fabled centre ground and his country back to the promised land of the single market!TGOHF said:
Lol -Chukka has form for flouncing and not following through on action.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Chukka walking out of the PLP tonight is the first public display of discordbrendan16 said:
Isn't Corbyn just reaffirming what the manifesto said,Big_G_NorthWales said:
Start of public fractures in labour as Corbyn confirms single market exit.TGOHF said:
Now where are all those labour supporters who expect Corbyn to engineer a remain position
Labour wants all the benefits of being in the single market without being a member of the single market as that would mean keeping freedom of movement.
And they presumably want to stay in a customs union with the EU/EEA but not in the customs union of the EU/EEA.
I think it's called keeping everyone happy and promising the undeliverable!
0 -
Nah, Jeremy Corbyn has her boxed in. Any "betrayal" will be down to her and her party alone.SouthamObserver said:
Very slowly, as the clock ticks down, the consequences are becoming starker. That’s why we’re heading for a very soft, fluffy, bouncy departure that will be all about seeking to hide away the multiple concessions the government will make to stop us falling off the cliff. It will be a lesson in negotiating with parties that hold all the cards.williamglenn said:
This is probably the biggest story of the day as it shows just how frit the government is of the consequences of Brexit.SouthamObserver said:0 -
Little do they know the Tories will cut them off at the knees by advocating joining the Euro.old_labour said:
I thought that was David Miliband's job.HYUFD said:
Chuka sees himself as the Messiah of pro European and metropolitan liberals, he will bide his time in the Wilderness until he is called to lead his party back to the fabled centre ground and his country back to the promised land of the single market!TGOHF said:
Lol -Chukka has form for flouncing and not following through on action.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Chukka walking out of the PLP tonight is the first public display of discordbrendan16 said:
Isn't Corbyn just reaffirming what the manifesto said,Big_G_NorthWales said:
Start of public fractures in labour as Corbyn confirms single market exit.TGOHF said:
Now where are all those labour supporters who expect Corbyn to engineer a remain position
Labour wants all the benefits of being in the single market without being a member of the single market as that would mean keeping freedom of movement.
And they presumably want to stay in a customs union with the EU/EEA but not in the customs union of the EU/EEA.
I think it's called keeping everyone happy and promising the undeliverable!0 -
Reshuffles only work in achieving their objective (strengthening the PM, renewing the government, reinvigorating the delivery of policy, improving the country) if the PM has the strength to move people to the positions she wants them in, on pain of being sacked if they say no. But sacking people is dangerously difficult when there is no majority and when any increase in the number of disgruntled backbench former ministers is inherently dangerous to the parliamentary arithmetic. Thus the fact that this reshuffle has been a shambles is a direct consequence of the fact that the general election itself was a shambles.
I am increasingly torn between the fact that we have a weak and dangerously incompetent prime minister, and the fact that one of my best friends is one of her closest advisors.0 -
But, for all that, the embarrassment around the process is a bit of a Westminster village story that'll be forgotten in a fortnight.
Far more important is how the ministers (both new and old) perform and how it affects the dynamic of Government in the future.0 -
Any of the “rising stars” Euro advocates?williamglenn said:
Little do they know the Tories will cut them off at the knees by advocating joining the Euro.old_labour said:
I thought that was David Miliband's job.HYUFD said:
Chuka sees himself as the Messiah of pro European and metropolitan liberals, he will bide his time in the Wilderness until he is called to lead his party back to the fabled centre ground and his country back to the promised land of the single market!TGOHF said:
Lol -Chukka has form for flouncing and not following through on action.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Chukka walking out of the PLP tonight is the first public display of discordbrendan16 said:
Isn't Corbyn just reaffirming what the manifesto said,Big_G_NorthWales said:
Start of public fractures in labour as Corbyn confirms single market exit.TGOHF said:
Now where are all those labour supporters who expect Corbyn to engineer a remain position
Labour wants all the benefits of being in the single market without being a member of the single market as that would mean keeping freedom of movement.
And they presumably want to stay in a customs union with the EU/EEA but not in the customs union of the EU/EEA.
I think it's called keeping everyone happy and promising the undeliverable!
I thought that was the preserve of “yesterday’s men”? (Clarke, Heseltine....)
0 -
“The statesman's task is to hear God's footsteps marching through history, and to try and catch on to His coattails as He marches past.”CarlottaVance said:
Any of the “rising stars” Euro advocates?williamglenn said:
Little do they know the Tories will cut them off at the knees by advocating joining the Euro.old_labour said:
I thought that was David Miliband's job.HYUFD said:
Chuka sees himself as the Messiah of pro European and metropolitan liberals, he will bide his time in the Wilderness until he is called to lead his party back to the fabled centre ground and his country back to the promised land of the single market!TGOHF said:
Lol -Chukka has form for flouncing and not following through on action.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Chukka walking out of the PLP tonight is the first public display of discordbrendan16 said:
Isn't Corbyn just reaffirming what the manifesto said,Big_G_NorthWales said:
Start of public fractures in labour as Corbyn confirms single market exit.TGOHF said:
Now where are all those labour supporters who expect Corbyn to engineer a remain position
Labour wants all the benefits of being in the single market without being a member of the single market as that would mean keeping freedom of movement.
And they presumably want to stay in a customs union with the EU/EEA but not in the customs union of the EU/EEA.
I think it's called keeping everyone happy and promising the undeliverable!
I'm sure there's a statesman to be found among them somewhere.0 -
The embarrasment around the process shows why the the central office needs shaking up more than any Govt. department.Casino_Royale said:But, for all that, the embarrassment around the process is a bit of a Westminster village story that'll be forgotten in a fortnight.
Far more important is how the ministers (both new and old) perform and how it affects the dynamic of Government in the future.0 -
She would have been better off doing nothing than whatever the fuck it was that reshuffle was supposed to be.JohnLoony said:Reshuffles only work in achieving their objective (strengthening the PM, renewing the government, reinvigorating the delivery of policy, improving the country) if the PM has the strength to move people to the positions she wants them in, on pain of being sacked if they say no. But sacking people is dangerously difficult when there is no majority and when any increase in the number of disgruntled backbench former ministers is inherently dangerous to the parliamentary arithmetic. Thus the fact that this reshuffle has been a shambles is a direct consequence of the fact that the general election itself was a shambles.
I am increasingly torn between the fact that we have a weak and dangerously incompetent prime minister, and the fact that one of my best friends is one of her closest advisors.0 -
Perhaps.Casino_Royale said:But, for all that, the embarrassment around the process is a bit of a Westminster village story that'll be forgotten in a fortnight.
Far more important is how the ministers (both new and old) perform and how it affects the dynamic of Government in the future.
The continuation in post of such luminaries as Leadsom, Fox, Grayling, Johnson et al doesn't inspire massive confidence on that score.
0 -
And the rationale of a job switch (in both directions) between Education and Work & Pensions, after a year in post, was what, precisely ?CarlottaVance said:
If May was in a stronger position she might well have been bolder, meanwhile her main job is 'to keep the show on the road' - nothing in this reshuffle makes that less likely. Minister didn't want new job & resigned is hardly up there with Howe or Lawson.....rcs1000 said:
I care far more about competence.CarlottaVance said:
If “talent” was the only consideration then I’d agree - but much as a pilot’s first responsibility is to “fly the plane” a PM’s job is to “keep the show on the road” - sacking two prominent leavers while promoting Lidington would have made that more difficult. It’s a balancing act.rcs1000 said:
Personally, I would have said adieu to Dr Liam Fox, and moved Hammond out of the Treasury. (I would have offered him the Business role, and if he didn't want it, he could return to the backbenches.)CarlottaVance said:
The only practical way May could satisfy those calling for her to “stamp her authority” would have been to sack one or more of the key ministers (Boris, Hammond, Davis) thus making for herself a powerful enemy on the back benches itching for the leadership role. It’s a mystery why she chose not to do this. Those complaining about lack of continuity in sacking Greening (who declined another role, sacking herself) don’t appear to apply the same logic to Fox or Leadsome.....PantherDave said:Apologies if already mentioned but the failure to demote Andrea Leadsom stands out for me how feeble May has been in this shambles.
Boris is a difficult one: I don't think he enhances the prestige or standing of the United Kingdom, but he's a difficult man to sack. That being said, having demonstrated a willingness to fire senior people would have put Boris on notice.
I would have been tempted to promote Gove, but I think he's doing a good job in a ministry that needs an intelligent man at the helm through Brexit.
Greening, I would have kept in place. Leadsom is useless, goodbye. I would have promoted Kwasi Kwarteng into the Cabinet, perhaps taking Fox's role. People don't hate Kwasi, and he's really smart, which would be an enormous relief to both our trading partners and the civil servants at the DfIT.
Your dismissive comment hardly addresses the question of competence - though it does seem to echo May's attitude towards her ministers (in the cases where she actually has the capacity to exercise power over them).
0 -
0
-
You think the reshuffle makes the continuation of May’s premiership less likely?Nigelb said:
And the rationale of a job switch (in both directions) between Education and Work & Pensions, after a year in post, was what, precisely ?CarlottaVance said:
If May was in a stronger position she might well have been bolder, meanwhile her main job is 'to keep the show on the road' - nothing in this reshuffle makes that less likely. Minister didn't want new job & resigned is hardly up there with Howe or Lawson.....rcs1000 said:
I care far more about competence.CarlottaVance said:
If “talent” was the only consideration then I’d agree - but much as a pilot’s first responsibility is to “fly the plane” a PM’s job is to “keep the show on the road” - sacking two prominent leavers while promoting Lidington would have made that more difficult. It’s a balancing act.rcs1000 said:
Personally, I would have said adieu to Dr Liam Fox, and moved Hammond out of the Treasury. (I would have offered him the Business role, and if he didn't want it, he could return to the backbenches.)CarlottaVance said:
The only practical way May could satisfy those calling for her to “stamp her authority” would have been to sack one or more of the key ministers (Boris, Hammond, Davis) thus making for herself a powerful enemy on the back benches itching for the leadership role. It’s a mystery why she chose not to do this. Those complaining about lack of continuity in sacking Greening (who declined another role, sacking herself) don’t appear to apply the same logic to Fox or Leadsome.....PantherDave said:Apologies if already mentioned but the failure to demote Andrea Leadsom stands out for me how feeble May has been in this shambles.
Boris is a difficult one: I don't think he enhances the prestige or standing of the United Kingdom, but he's a difficult man to sack. That being said, having demonstrated a willingness to fire senior people would have put Boris on notice.
I would have been tempted to promote Gove, but I think he's doing a good job in a ministry that needs an intelligent man at the helm through Brexit.
Greening, I would have kept in place. Leadsom is useless, goodbye. I would have promoted Kwasi Kwarteng into the Cabinet, perhaps taking Fox's role. People don't hate Kwasi, and he's really smart, which would be an enormous relief to both our trading partners and the civil servants at the DfIT.
Your dismissive comment hardly addresses the question of competence - though it does seem to echo May's attitude towards her ministers (in the cases where she actually has the capacity to exercise power over them).
0 -
It marginally reduces the already low competence of the government.CarlottaVance said:
You think the reshuffle makes the continuation of May’s premiership less likely?Nigelb said:
And the rationale of a job switch (in both directions) between Education and Work & Pensions, after a year in post, was what, precisely ?CarlottaVance said:
If May was in a stronger position she might well have been bolder, meanwhile her main job is 'to keep the show on the road' - nothing in this reshuffle makes that less likely. Minister didn't want new job & resigned is hardly up there with Howe or Lawson.....rcs1000 said:
I care far more about competence.CarlottaVance said:
If “talent” was the only consideration then I’d agree - but much as a pilot’s first responsibility is to “fly the plane” a PM’s job is to “keep the show on the road” - sacking two prominent leavers while promoting Lidington would have made that more difficult. It’s a balancing act.rcs1000 said:
Personally, I would have said adieu to Dr Liam Fox, and moved Hammond out of the Treasury. (I would have offered him the Business role, and if he didn't want it, he could return to the backbenches.)CarlottaVance said:
The only practical way May could satisfy those calling for her to “stamp her authority” would have been to sack one or more of the key ministers (Boris, Hammond, Davis) thus making for herself a powerful enemy on the back benches itching for the leadership role. It’s a mystery why she chose not to do this. Those complaining about lack of continuity in sacking Greening (who declined another role, sacking herself) don’t appear to apply the same logic to Fox or Leadsome.....PantherDave said:Apologies if already mentioned but the failure to demote Andrea Leadsom stands out for me how feeble May has been in this shambles.
...
Greening, I would have kept in place. Leadsom is useless, goodbye. I would have promoted Kwasi Kwarteng into the Cabinet, perhaps taking Fox's role. People don't hate Kwasi, and he's really smart, which would be an enormous relief to both our trading partners and the civil servants at the DfIT.
Your dismissive comment hardly addresses the question of competence - though it does seem to echo May's attitude towards her ministers (in the cases where she actually has the capacity to exercise power over them).
I don't share your obsession with the continuation of May in post.
0 -
-
-
It’s not an “obsession” - simply an observation of a key motivator among all the high minded comments from people who wouldn’t have to deal with the consequences of a “bolder” approach.Nigelb said:
It marginally reduces the already low competence of the government.CarlottaVance said:
You think the reshuffle makes the continuation of May’s premiership less likely?Nigelb said:
And the rationale of a job switch (in both directions) between Education and Work & Pensions, after a year in post, was what, precisely ?CarlottaVance said:
If May was in a stronger position she might well have been bolder, meanwhile her main job is 'to keep the show on the road' - nothing in this reshuffle makes that less likely. Minister didn't want new job & resigned is hardly up there with Howe or Lawson.....rcs1000 said:
I care far more about competence.CarlottaVance said:
If “talent” was the only consideration then I’d agree - but much as a pilot’s first responsibility is to “fly the plane” a PM’s job is to “keep the show on the road” - sacking two prominent leavers while promoting Lidington would have made that more difficult. It’s a balancing act.rcs1000 said:
Personally, I would have said adieu to Dr Liam Fox, and moved Hammond out of the Treasury. (I would have offered him the Business role, and if he didn't want it, he could return to the backbenches.)CarlottaVance said:
The only practical way May could satisfy those calling for her to “stamp her authority” would have been to sack one or more of the key ministers (Boris, Hammond, Davis) thus making for herself a powerful enemy on the back benches itching for the leadership role. It’s a mystery why she chose not to do this. Those complaining about lack of continuity in sacking Greening (who declined another role, sacking herself) don’t appear to apply the same logic to Fox or Leadsome.....PantherDave said:Apologies if already mentioned but the failure to demote Andrea Leadsom stands out for me how feeble May has been in this shambles.
...
Greening, I would have kept in place. Leadsom is useless, goodbye. I would have promoted Kwasi Kwarteng into the Cabinet, perhaps taking Fox's role. People don't hate Kwasi, and he's really smart, which would be an enormous relief to both our trading partners and the civil servants at the DfIT.
Your dismissive comment hardly addresses the question of competence - though it does seem to echo May's attitude towards her ministers (in the cases where she actually has the capacity to exercise power over them).
I don't share your obsession with the continuation of May in post.0 -
Even the Sainted David realises he is yesterday's man, the recent attempt to bring him in from the cold failed. From the Crown Prince heir apparent to being usurped by his own brother at his own coronation, to be a king of another (charity) in a country, far, far away....old_labour said:
I thought that was David Miliband's job.HYUFD said:
Chuka sees himself as the Messiah of pro European and metropolitan liberals, he will bide his time in the Wilderness until he is called to lead his party back to the fabled centre ground and his country back to the promised land of the single market!TGOHF said:
Lol -Chukka has form for flouncing and not following through on action.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Chukka walking out of the PLP tonight is the first public display of discordbrendan16 said:
Isn't Corbyn just reaffirming what the manifesto said,Big_G_NorthWales said:
Start of public fractures in labour as Corbyn confirms single market exit.TGOHF said:
Now where are all those labour supporters who expect Corbyn to engineer a remain position
Labour wants all the benefits of being in the single market without being a member of the single market as that would mean keeping freedom of movement.
And they presumably want to stay in a customs union with the EU/EEA but not in the customs union of the EU/EEA.
I think it's called keeping everyone happy and promising the undeliverable!0 -
So Toby Young's gone.
None of his individual 'sins' were bad: he is, after all, a paid loudmouth. But when the sins were aggregated, it's fairly clear that he was utterly unsuited for the role.0 -
FFS.0
-
Re Toby Young - his choice but a sad victory for Internet trolling. Can no-one with past silliness ever move on? Labour much more forgiving of its own embarrassments.0
-
Not a bad list.rcs1000 said:
The only prominent Leaver who should definitely (err) Leave is Dr Liam Fox.CarlottaVance said:
If “talent” was the only consideration then I’d agree - but much as a pilot’s first responsibility is to “fly the plane” a PM’s job is to “keep the show on the road” - sacking two prominent leavers while promoting Lidington would have made that more difficult. It’s a balancing act.rcs1000 said:
Personally, I would have said adieu to Dr Liam Fox, and moved Hammond out of the Treasury. (I would have offered him the Business role, and if he didn't want it, he could return to the backbenches.)CarlottaVance said:
The only practical way May could satisfy those calling for her to “stamp her authority” would have been to sack one or more of the key ministers (Boris, Hammond, Davis) thus making for herself a powerful enemy on the back benches itching for the leadership role. It’s a mystery why she chose not to do this. Those complaining about lack of continuity in sacking Greening (who declined another role, sacking herself) don’t appear to apply the same logic to Fox or Leadsome.....PantherDave said:Apologies if already mentioned but the failure to demote Andrea Leadsom stands out for me how feeble May has been in this shambles.
Boris is a difficult one: I don't think he enhances the prestige or standing of the United Kingdom, but he's a difficult man to sack. That being said, having demonstrated a willingness to fire senior people would have put Boris on notice.
I would have been tempted to promote Gove, but I think he's doing a good job in a ministry that needs an intelligent man at the helm through Brexit.
Greening, I would have kept in place. Leadsom is useless, goodbye. I would have promoted Kwasi Kwarteng into the Cabinet, perhaps taking Fox's role. People don't hate Kwasi, and he's really smart, which would be an enormous relief to both our trading partners and the civil servants at the DfIT.
How about this:
Gove (Leaver) promoted to CoE
Hammond (Remainer) demoted to Business
Dr Liam Fox (Leaver) to back benches
Kwasi Kwarteng (Leaver) to DfIT
JRM (Leaver) to Leader of the House
Andrea Leadsom (Leaver) to her own house
Rory Stewart (Remainer) to DfID
Gavin Williamson (no idea) to DEFRA
Penny Morduant (Leaver) to Defence
(And for the record, I think we should be looking beyond Leave and Remain. Rory Stewart was a Remainer and deserves a chance, for example. I care far more about competence.)0 -
https://twitter.com/DanielJHannan/status/950085525247090688?ref_src=twcamp^share|twsrc^m5|twgr^email|twcon^7046|twterm^1felix said:Re Toby Young - his choice but a sad victory for Internet trolling. Can no-one with past silliness ever move on? Labour much more forgiving of its own embarrassments.
0 -
@BBCNormanS: Toby Young issues "unreserved apology" for statements made while "a journalistic provocateur."
I wonder if BoZo will ever do the same...0 -
What is concerning about the Greening situation is that it appears that someone who belives in State and indeed Comprehensive Eeducation has gone, to be replaced by someone who has advocated separete religious schools.
It’ll be Dame Schools next as a Tory policy!0 -
If the role's valuable, then it should have the best possible candidate in it. If it isn't valuable, then it shouldn't exist.felix said:Re Toby Young - his choice but a sad victory for Internet trolling. Can no-one with past silliness ever move on? Labour much more forgiving of its own embarrassments.
I'm far from convinced that Young was a good candidate for the role, yet alone the best. What's clear from this and other events is that we have a problem with recruiting into such roles in this country - it often isn't done on merit, but on who you know.
A bigger question is whether the government has created another unnecessary enemy.0 -
-
Rules out a lot of people. He should have told them to get stuffed.felix said:Re Toby Young - his choice but a sad victory for Internet trolling. Can no-one with past silliness ever move on? Labour much more forgiving of its own embarrassments.
0 -
Labour's policy on Brexit doesn't matter much as it'll have been done before the election. Would be nice if we were positioning for afterwards, but no chance that Jezbollah has it thought through that well.
As for Toby Young, if 200k signatures is all it takes to force uncaring oaf to quit then McVile should be worried...0 -
In other news, the US lost a heavily-publicised 'secret' payload after a rocket launch the other day.
The Northrop-Grumman Zuma payload may have re-entered the atmosphere; it is unclear what went wrong, but SpaceX claim it wasn't the rocket's fault.
This is all rather intriguing, as the Zuma mission has been a secret missions almost designed to garner publicity: it was hurriedly rushed up the manifest back in November, 'taking' a rocket due for another mission, and then was stood down for odd reasons. It finally launched yesterday morning, and appears to have gone wrong.
So, a rare failure for SpaceX, a payload failure, or did everything really go well and this is all a misdirection?
https://www.theverge.com/2018/1/9/16866806/spacex-zuma-mission-failure-northrop-grumman-classified-falcon-9-rocket0 -
Leadsom is now in favour of equal marriage, according to Pink News. Scraping the barnacles off the boat for a future leadership challenge?CarlottaVance said:0 -
Rather than make her stronger the reshuffle has weakened May. Well, what a surprise. She has almost no room for manoeuvre following the GE disaster. She really has to come to terms with that and stop pretending otherwise.
I fear the removal of Greening is a response to her standing up to the PM and making it clear that the Grammar school policy the PM espoused was silly and unpopular. I think Esther McVey has a hell of a job on her hands getting UC to work before the next election. I wish her well but it is a big ask. Grayling, Fox and the blessed mother remaining in place shows how pointless the exercise was.
All in all a shambles by a stunningly incompetent PM.
0 -
My money is on the last.JosiasJessop said:In other news, the US lost a heavily-publicised 'secret' payload after a rocket launch the other day.
The Northrop-Grumman Zuma payload may have re-entered the atmosphere; it is unclear what went wrong, but SpaceX claim it wasn't the rocket's fault.
This is all rather intriguing, as the Zuma mission has been a secret missions almost designed to garner publicity: it was hurriedly rushed up the manifest back in November, 'taking' a rocket due for another mission, and then was stood down for odd reasons. It finally launched yesterday morning, and appears to have gone wrong.
So, a rare failure for SpaceX, a payload failure, or did everything really go well and this is all a misdirection?
https://www.theverge.com/2018/1/9/16866806/spacex-zuma-mission-failure-northrop-grumman-classified-falcon-9-rocket0 -
Here's an interesting story: https://qz.com/1174091/china-wants-an-orderly-exit-from-bitcoin-mining/0
-
I see the real nasties are up early - keen for a lynching are you?RochdalePioneers said:Labour's policy on Brexit doesn't matter much as it'll have been done before the election. Would be nice if we were positioning for afterwards, but no chance that Jezbollah has it thought through that well.
As for Toby Young, if 200k signatures is all it takes to force uncaring oaf to quit then McVile should be worried...0 -
If they still had Brookside on TV, she would be the prefect villain from central casting who marries some old geezer to get her hands on his pension, then murders him and buries him beneath the patio in the back garden.RochdalePioneers said:Labour's policy on Brexit doesn't matter much as it'll have been done before the election. Would be nice if we were positioning for afterwards, but no chance that Jezbollah has it thought through that well.
As for Toby Young, if 200k signatures is all it takes to force uncaring oaf to quit then McVile should be worried...0 -
Mine as well. I'm not normally a conspiracy theorist, but this whole mission's just been so darned odd. In comparison, SpaceX's launch of the secretive X-37 spaceplane went so cleanly last September.rcs1000 said:
My money is on the last.JosiasJessop said:In other news, the US lost a heavily-publicised 'secret' payload after a rocket launch the other day.
The Northrop-Grumman Zuma payload may have re-entered the atmosphere; it is unclear what went wrong, but SpaceX claim it wasn't the rocket's fault.
This is all rather intriguing, as the Zuma mission has been a secret missions almost designed to garner publicity: it was hurriedly rushed up the manifest back in November, 'taking' a rocket due for another mission, and then was stood down for odd reasons. It finally launched yesterday morning, and appears to have gone wrong.
So, a rare failure for SpaceX, a payload failure, or did everything really go well and this is all a misdirection?
https://www.theverge.com/2018/1/9/16866806/spacex-zuma-mission-failure-northrop-grumman-classified-falcon-9-rocket0 -
She was. Then she lost her seat. Now shes back in a safe seat as long as she wants it. Perhaps she's decided the disabled are people too. Perhaps not.felix said:
I see the real nasties are up early - keen for a lynching are you?RochdalePioneers said:Labour's policy on Brexit doesn't matter much as it'll have been done before the election. Would be nice if we were positioning for afterwards, but no chance that Jezbollah has it thought through that well.
As for Toby Young, if 200k signatures is all it takes to force uncaring oaf to quit then McVile should be worried...0 -
That was Greenings crime, she doesn't agree with May over more Grammar schools. Tis a pity the first ever Education Secretary from a Comprehensive has gone in such a way. Still, Angela Rayner is something to look forward to.OldKingCole said:What is concerning about the Greening situation is that it appears that someone who belives in State and indeed Comprehensive Eeducation has gone, to be replaced by someone who has advocated separete religious schools.
It’ll be Dame Schools next as a Tory policy!
I don't blame her for refusing DWP with the poisoned chalice of UC. She may well be better off cultivating her constituency, it is likely to be an electoral target next time.
So the Twittermob got Toby? It is hard to have a lot of sympathy. Those who live by the sword, die by the sword.0 -
Ah, so Mr Free Speech No Nonsense Tough Debate Not Afraid To Ruffle Feathers can't take some anonymous people being mean to him* on Twitter?felix said:Re Toby Young - his choice but a sad victory for Internet trolling. Can no-one with past silliness ever move on? Labour much more forgiving of its own embarrassments.
* I.e. accurately quoting things he's said and written in the past.0 -
Byeee Toby!0
-
Bollocks. The Twitter mob didn't get Tony but Tony himself. These were not things said by someone in their youth but by a grown man in his late 40s at the time.Foxy said:
That was Greenings crime, she doesn't agree with May over more Grammar schools. Tis a pity the first ever Education Secretary from a Comprehensive has gone in such a way. Still, Angela Rayner is something to look forward to.OldKingCole said:What is concerning about the Greening situation is that it appears that someone who belives in State and indeed Comprehensive Eeducation has gone, to be replaced by someone who has advocated separete religious schools.
It’ll be Dame Schools next as a Tory policy!
I don't blame her for refusing DWP with the poisoned chalice of UC. She may well be better off cultivating her constituency, it is likely to be an electoral target next time.
So the Twittermob got Toby? It is hard to have a lot of sympathy. Those who live by the sword, die by the sword.0 -
So if China bans bitcoin mining does that kill bitcoin or increase their value by reducing the supply of new coins? My guess would be the former because there is no inherent value in bitcoin to be enhanced by rarity but it is a completely weird market. My daughter discovered that she had a few hundred invested in Bitcoin through a portfolio and sold out for over £8K, roughly a 20 fold increase on her investment, but those holding on now seem to me to be moving from the brave to the foolhardy.rcs1000 said:Here's an interesting story: https://qz.com/1174091/china-wants-an-orderly-exit-from-bitcoin-mining/
0 -
People should really take a look at themselves before posting horrid tripe like this.old_labour said:
If they still had Brookside on TV, she would be the prefect villain from central casting who marries some old geezer to get her hands on his pension, then murders him and buries him beneath the patio in the back garden.RochdalePioneers said:Labour's policy on Brexit doesn't matter much as it'll have been done before the election. Would be nice if we were positioning for afterwards, but no chance that Jezbollah has it thought through that well.
As for Toby Young, if 200k signatures is all it takes to force uncaring oaf to quit then McVile should be worried...
0 -
The Bitcoin algorithm keeps the supply of new bitcoins constant regardless of the number of miners.DavidL said:
So if China bans bitcoin mining does that kill bitcoin or increase their value by reducing the supply of new coins? My guess would be the former because there is no inherent value in bitcoin to be enhanced by rarity but it is a completely weird market. My daughter discovered that she had a few hundred invested in Bitcoin through a portfolio and sold out for over £8K, roughly a 20 fold increase on her investment, but those holding on now seem to me to be moving from the brave to the foolhardy.rcs1000 said:Here's an interesting story: https://qz.com/1174091/china-wants-an-orderly-exit-from-bitcoin-mining/
A reduction in minimum power of the network would necessarily see the price drop however due to the implicit link between hash rate and price ( bitcoin can't be worth more than a multiple.of the power necessary to hash otherwise it becomes profitable to attack the network.)0 -
+1MikeSmithson said:
Bollocks. The Twitter mob didn't get Tony but Tony himself. These were not things said by someone in their youth but by a grown man in his late 40s at the time.Foxy said:
That was Greenings crime, she doesn't agree with May over more Grammar schools. Tis a pity the first ever Education Secretary from a Comprehensive has gone in such a way. Still, Angela Rayner is something to look forward to.OldKingCole said:What is concerning about the Greening situation is that it appears that someone who belives in State and indeed Comprehensive Eeducation has gone, to be replaced by someone who has advocated separete religious schools.
It’ll be Dame Schools next as a Tory policy!
I don't blame her for refusing DWP with the poisoned chalice of UC. She may well be better off cultivating her constituency, it is likely to be an electoral target next time.
So the Twittermob got Toby? It is hard to have a lot of sympathy. Those who live by the sword, die by the sword.
I fail to see why Young was suited for this role. Can any of his supporters say why he was a good candidate, yet alone the best?
Next: Sean Thomas for governmental adviser on women's issues ...
0 -
The wanker's gone.0
-
Toby Young is a prat who is not nearly as witty or funny or clever as he thinks he is but taking days of twitterstorm only to have him quit as the caravan moved on to the reshuffle shambles seems the worst possible outcome for the government once again.
This government so needs a manager like Osborne was for Cameron or Mandelson was latterly for Brown. The idea that Green could fulfil that role was pretty laughable but is there anyone who thinks that Lidington is up to that job? Without some central grip we are condemned to more of the same, drift on the currents of world affairs without a paddle and with the odd capsize.0 -
Seems mildly unlikely, particularly as it should eventually be spottable by amateurs if still in orbit.JosiasJessop said:
Mine as well. I'm not normally a conspiracy theorist, but this whole mission's just been so darned odd. In comparison, SpaceX's launch of the secretive X-37 spaceplane went so cleanly last September.rcs1000 said:
My money is on the last.JosiasJessop said:In other news, the US lost a heavily-publicised 'secret' payload after a rocket launch the other day.
The Northrop-Grumman Zuma payload may have re-entered the atmosphere; it is unclear what went wrong, but SpaceX claim it wasn't the rocket's fault.
This is all rather intriguing, as the Zuma mission has been a secret missions almost designed to garner publicity: it was hurriedly rushed up the manifest back in November, 'taking' a rocket due for another mission, and then was stood down for odd reasons. It finally launched yesterday morning, and appears to have gone wrong.
So, a rare failure for SpaceX, a payload failure, or did everything really go well and this is all a misdirection?
https://www.theverge.com/2018/1/9/16866806/spacex-zuma-mission-failure-northrop-grumman-classified-falcon-9-rocket
This looks more likely, and explains the apparently conflicting accounts:
Northrop Grumman provided its own payload adapter for this mission. And if that payload adapter failed, it would have left the satellite still attached to the upper portion of the rocket. That’s certainly a mission failure, but it wouldn’t necessarily be the fault of the Falcon 9...0 -
Possibly. But the whole thing's intriguing given the urgent nature of the cancelled first launch. It's been alleged that the payload was really expensive, so if it is an unplanned 'failure' of he sort mentioned (as opposed to misdirection) then the US government and NG are going to be hurting.Nigelb said:
Seems mildly unlikely, particularly as it should eventually be spottable by amateurs if still in orbit.JosiasJessop said:
Mine as well. I'm not normally a conspiracy theorist, but this whole mission's just been so darned odd. In comparison, SpaceX's launch of the secretive X-37 spaceplane went so cleanly last September.rcs1000 said:
My money is on the last.JosiasJessop said:In other news, the US lost a heavily-publicised 'secret' payload after a rocket launch the other day.
The Northrop-Grumman Zuma payload may have re-entered the atmosphere; it is unclear what went wrong, but SpaceX claim it wasn't the rocket's fault.
This is all rather intriguing, as the Zuma mission has been a secret missions almost designed to garner publicity: it was hurriedly rushed up the manifest back in November, 'taking' a rocket due for another mission, and then was stood down for odd reasons. It finally launched yesterday morning, and appears to have gone wrong.
So, a rare failure for SpaceX, a payload failure, or did everything really go well and this is all a misdirection?
https://www.theverge.com/2018/1/9/16866806/spacex-zuma-mission-failure-northrop-grumman-classified-falcon-9-rocket
This looks more likely, and explains the apparently conflicting accounts:
Northrop Grumman provided its own payload adapter for this mission. And if that payload adapter failed, it would have left the satellite still attached to the upper portion of the rocket. That’s certainly a mission failure, but it wouldn’t necessarily be the fault of the Falcon 9...
It hasn't been a stellar example of how to run a 'black' project...0 -
So, some sneering MP who is never likely to reach cabinet shouts his/her mouth off and everyone else is piling in calling it a disaster, its just another day of MP's and commentators whining about xyz and frankly I just don't care anymore. Opposition is even worse than the Govt. God help the UK and N I.0
-
Isn't it a rather a defeat for internet trolling, of which Young was something of an exponent ?felix said:Re Toby Young - his choice but a sad victory for Internet trolling. Can no-one with past silliness ever move on? Labour much more forgiving of its own embarrassments.
And yes, it's perfectly possible to move on. The problem with Young is that he carried on with the silliness alongside his more grownup activities - and that some of his expressed views (on disability, for example) directly contradict legislated priorities.
0 -
@PolhomeEditor: There speaks a minister forced to defend Toby Young for an hour in the Commons yesterday only for him to quit this… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/9506343650123161600
-
https://twitter.com/jamin2g/status/950635276996669440Foxy said:Angela Rayner is something to look forward to.
So the Twittermob got Toby? It is hard to have a lot of sympathy. Those who live by the sword, die by the sword.0 -
https://twitter.com/thomasknox/status/950629208312528896JosiasJessop said:Next: Sean Thomas for governmental adviser on women's issues ...
0 -
Exactly. There is only role for which there is any competition that Toby Young qualifies for. His worse enemy.JosiasJessop said:
+1MikeSmithson said:
Bollocks. The Twitter mob didn't get Tony but Tony himself. These were not things said by someone in their youth but by a grown man in his late 40s at the time.Foxy said:
That was Greenings crime, she doesn't agree with May over more Grammar schools. Tis a pity the first ever Education Secretary from a Comprehensive has gone in such a way. Still, Angela Rayner is something to look forward to.OldKingCole said:What is concerning about the Greening situation is that it appears that someone who belives in State and indeed Comprehensive Eeducation has gone, to be replaced by someone who has advocated separete religious schools.
It’ll be Dame Schools next as a Tory policy!
I don't blame her for refusing DWP with the poisoned chalice of UC. She may well be better off cultivating her constituency, it is likely to be an electoral target next time.
So the Twittermob got Toby? It is hard to have a lot of sympathy. Those who live by the sword, die by the sword.
I fail to see why Young was suited for this role. Can any of his supporters say why he was a good candidate, yet alone the best?
Next: Sean Thomas for governmental adviser on women's issues ...-2 -
-
-
So you're a McDonnellite lyncher ?RochdalePioneers said:Labour's policy on Brexit doesn't matter much as it'll have been done before the election. Would be nice if we were positioning for afterwards, but no chance that Jezbollah has it thought through that well.
As for Toby Young, if 200k signatures is all it takes to force uncaring oaf to quit then McVile should be worried...
I prefer the Jess Phillips line:
While disagreeing with McVey's politics, she described McDonnell's comments as "utterly despicable", and added "I cannot imagine why he refuses to apologise"
0 -
Toby certainly gave the Twittermob enough material to work with, and much of it fairly recent.MikeSmithson said:
Bollocks. The Twitter mob didn't get Tony but Tony himself. These were not things said by someone in their youth but by a grown man in his late 40s at the time.Foxy said:
That was Greenings crime, she doesn't agree with May over more Grammar schools. Tis a pity the first ever Education Secretary from a Comprehensive has gone in such a way. Still, Angela Rayner is something to look forward to.OldKingCole said:What is concerning about the Greening situation is that it appears that someone who belives in State and indeed Comprehensive Eeducation has gone, to be replaced by someone who has advocated separete religious schools.
It’ll be Dame Schools next as a Tory policy!
I don't blame her for refusing DWP with the poisoned chalice of UC. She may well be better off cultivating her constituency, it is likely to be an electoral target next time.
So the Twittermob got Toby? It is hard to have a lot of sympathy. Those who live by the sword, die by the sword.
I think it was the Mail on Sunday frontpage that was the final nail though. A period of dignified silence is called for, bit knowing Toby's record is unlikely.0 -
"A hit, a hit, a palpable hit."Scott_P said:
This is quite a depressing morning for those naturally inclined to support the government.0 -
Yeah. Jess Phillips is bang on the money.Nigelb said:
So you're a McDonnellite lyncher ?RochdalePioneers said:Labour's policy on Brexit doesn't matter much as it'll have been done before the election. Would be nice if we were positioning for afterwards, but no chance that Jezbollah has it thought through that well.
As for Toby Young, if 200k signatures is all it takes to force uncaring oaf to quit then McVile should be worried...
I prefer the Jess Phillips line:
While disagreeing with McVey's politics, she described McDonnell's comments as "utterly despicable", and added "I cannot imagine why he refuses to apologise"
John McDonnell seems to come from the never apologise school of politics.0 -
LOL. I hadn't seen that tweet ...Scott_P said:
https://twitter.com/thomasknox/status/950629208312528896JosiasJessop said:Next: Sean Thomas for governmental adviser on women's issues ...
0 -
He probably means McDonnell.felix said:
I see the real nasties are up early - keen for a lynching are you?RochdalePioneers said:Labour's policy on Brexit doesn't matter much as it'll have been done before the election. Would be nice if we were positioning for afterwards, but no chance that Jezbollah has it thought through that well.
As for Toby Young, if 200k signatures is all it takes to force uncaring oaf to quit then McVile should be worried...0 -
I can see why a newspaper columnists who has controversial opinions for money on a regular basis is worried that people got a bit cross about a newspaper columnists who has controversial opinions for money on a regular basis.Scott_P said:0 -
Being a paid loud mouth is now a valid occupation?JosiasJessop said:So Toby Young's gone.
None of his individual 'sins' were bad: he is, after all, a paid loudmouth. But when the sins were aggregated, it's fairly clear that he was utterly unsuited for the role.0 -
Dream on, there is more chance of the Tories advocating a Marxist economy nowwilliamglenn said:
Little do they know the Tories will cut them off at the knees by advocating joining the Euro.old_labour said:
I thought that was David Miliband's job.HYUFD said:
Chuka sees himself as the Messiah of pro European and metropolitan liberals, he will bide his time in the Wilderness until he is called to lead his party back to the fabled centre ground and his country back to the promised land of the single market!TGOHF said:
Lol -Chukka has form for flouncing and not following through on action.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Chukka walking out of the PLP tonight is the first public display of discordbrendan16 said:
Isn't Corbyn just reaffirming what the manifesto said,Big_G_NorthWales said:
Start of public fractures in labour as Corbyn confirms single market exit.TGOHF said:
Now where are all those labour supporters who expect Corbyn to engineer a remain position
Labour wants all the benefits of being in the single market without being a member of the single market as that would mean keeping freedom of movement.
And they presumably want to stay in a customs union with the EU/EEA but not in the customs union of the EU/EEA.
I think it's called keeping everyone happy and promising the undeliverable!0 -
Yes, apparently being twat for money absolves you of the twatishness apparently.Recidivist said:
Being a paid loud mouth is now a valid occupation?JosiasJessop said:So Toby Young's gone.
None of his individual 'sins' were bad: he is, after all, a paid loudmouth. But when the sins were aggregated, it's fairly clear that he was utterly unsuited for the role.0 -
I used to rather like Spiked-Online, and it is still ocassionally interesting. Its journey from Communism to alt.right rabbit hole is a strange one though.Alistair said:
I can see why a newspaper columnists who has controversial opinions for money on a regular basis is worried that people got a bit cross about a newspaper columnists who has controversial opinions for money on a regular basis.Scott_P said:0 -
Can I reiterate my view that the Toby Young row was hyped to distract attention from the dull reshuffle?0
-
New thread!DecrepitJohnL said:Can I reiterate my view that the Toby Young row was hyped to distract attention from the dull reshuffle?
0 -
Define 'valid' .Recidivist said:
Being a paid loud mouth is now a valid occupation?JosiasJessop said:So Toby Young's gone.
None of his individual 'sins' were bad: he is, after all, a paid loudmouth. But when the sins were aggregated, it's fairly clear that he was utterly unsuited for the role. 0
