politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The New Year starts with little cheer for any of the parties

JosiasJessop said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Am I the only person bored to death by the annual complaints about train costs?

3.4% is a bit above inflation but compared to what seems to be ever-escalating fuel costs, insurance costs etc for driving a mere 3.4% doesn't seem very significant at all.

Yep. The alternatives are to either not have the services, or to put the costs on general taxation (i.e. the rest of us).

Essentially what they (the commuters) want is for the rest of us to pay for their lifestyle choice.

(runs for cover)

If they want to commute then suck it up or get a local job.

Mr. Divvie, I posted this in reply to Mr. Ace's insightful and wise comment. I repost it for you to answer, if you wish:

"Mr. Ace, the Second Punic War is not, alas, a subject of interest for most of the population. That doesn't stop me posting about it here.

And like Minucius Rufus, the Cunctator's magister equitum, you've completely missed the point. You think it's a good thing we have a Leader of the Opposition that, four years ago, was making the case for Iran's regime?"

If Ruth Davidson were in favour of a regime that executes homosexuals and makes the hijab mandatory for women would you refrain from remarking upon it?

Edited extra bit: I posted this at the same time as you actually replied to the above.

Show me the Conservative MP who has made the case for Saudi Arabia at an event commemorating the nation's founding (or founding of current political governance structure) and I'll happily condemn them.

Philip_Thompson said:

FF43 said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Am I the only person bored to death by the annual complaints about train costs?

3.4% is a bit above inflation but compared to what seems to be ever-escalating fuel costs, insurance costs etc for driving a mere 3.4% doesn't seem very significant at all.

Most advanced countries subsidise transport costs. Given we all do so, the question is whether the UK subsidies work better or worse than other countries in the round.

Most season tickets are bought by commuters to London. I wonder how much the high ticket prices are the other side of the coin from the very accommodation costs in London. Are ticket prices higher in the UK than Germany in part because people are travelling further to get affordable housing?

"Subsidise transport costs"? How much is fuel being subsidised by?

I didn't say governments subsidise all transport costs. My point was about how effective those subsidy choices are.

The issue for private road users is resource allocation. Given congestion on limited road space are drivers charged appropriately through fuel and vehicle tax for their use of that resource.

I am a big supporter of public buses. They are flexible and relatively cheap to operate but it needs an integrated system that could benefit hugely from a comparatively modest subsidy. Buses compete with private cars for road space. Buses like private cars, but unlike trains, don't have to pay directly the infrastructure costs.

Theuniondivvie said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Ace, the Second Punic War is not, alas, a subject of interest for most of the population. That doesn't stop me posting about it here.

And like Minucius Rufus, the Cunctator's magister equitum, you've completely missed the point. You think it's a good thing we have a Leader of the Opposition that, four years ago, was making the case for Iran's regime?

Better, worse or about the same as a government currently making ng the case for the Saudi regime?

Also selling them the bombs to kill innocent children, real charmers. Best they can say is somebody else would sell them bombs if we didn't.

Theuniondivvie said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Ace, the Second Punic War is not, alas, a subject of interest for most of the population. That doesn't stop me posting about it here.

And like Minucius Rufus, the Cunctator's magister equitum, you've completely missed the point. You think it's a good thing we have a Leader of the Opposition that, four years ago, was making the case for Iran's regime?

Better, worse or about the same as a government currently making ng the case for the Saudi regime?

When has the government made the case for the Saudi Regime?

Dealing with the regime in the real world is simple realpolitik but that isn't the same as making the case for them.

TheScreamingEagles said:

The government can find £15 billion for Crossrail but not a few million for electrification in the North.

Bring back the Northern Powerhouse.

Millions are being spent in 'the north', including many electrification schemes. Besides, has the trans-Pennine electrification been officially scrapped yet? You might also want to look at all the upgrades happening 'up north', including a short but rather useful chord line opened in Manchester just last month:

https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/our-routes/lnw/ordsall-chord/

You whinging Yorkshiremen should feel sorry for us Midlanders: trapped between your ungrateful whinging and the southerners' gilt-edged infrastructure - the Midland line electrification has been cancelled north of ?Kettering?.

And all because the west country folk got their line electrified first. Blooming copper-topped lucky goits! ...

I can count the number of return train journeys I've taken on a couple of limbs (note- I'm not from Norfolk). The last time I considered taking the train down to that shittole London, the quoted price was well North of 300 quid for me and my lad. I declined the chance to spend an hour on a train amongst the plebs and bunged 40 quid worth's of petrol in the car and spent 90 minutes on the M1 instead.

To mangle a quote that Thatcher never said, "anyone on a train paying 550 quid a month to go to that shittole London needs to have a word with themselves"

JosiasJessop said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

The government can find £15 billion for Crossrail but not a few million for electrification in the North.

Bring back the Northern Powerhouse.

Millions are being spent in 'the north', including many electrification schemes. Besides, has the trans-Pennine electrification been officially scrapped yet? You might also want to look at all the upgrades happening 'up north', including a short but rather useful chord line opened in Manchester just last month:

https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/our-routes/lnw/ordsall-chord/

You whinging Yorkshiremen should feel sorry for us Midlanders: trapped between your ungrateful whinging and the southerners' gilt-edged infrastructure - the Midland line electrification has been cancelled north of ?Kettering?.

And all because the west country folk got their line electrified first. Blooming copper-topped lucky goits! ...

Yorkshire is the backbone of the UK.

It has been cancelled.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/chris-grayling-explains-government-s-u-turn-on-electrification-of-trans-pennine-rail-line-1-8768581/amp

On the topic of predictions, a few thoughts on the thread starting here:

https://twitter.com/DavidHerdson/status/948123201732730880

Morris_Dancer said:

King Cole, a fair comment. More should be said and done about Saudi funding for fundamentalist schooling overseas.

However, that doesn't wash away the Leader of the Opposition's overt support for a despotic regime. Doing business with a regime because confining oneself to only trading with Western liberal democracies is seriously economically harmful is one thing. Going out of your way to praise how wonderful a despotic regime is, is quite another.

Indeed; praising the Iranian regime is strange, although, the monarchy wasn’t a shining beacon either.
Regarding Mossadeq as irredeemably hostile didn’t work out well, either.

Arguably oil was the curse of the twentieth century.

stodge said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Am I the only person bored to death by the annual complaints about train costs?

3.4% is a bit above inflation but compared to what seems to be ever-escalating fuel costs, insurance costs etc for driving a mere 3.4% doesn't seem very significant at all.

Am I the only person bored to death by the annual complaints from people bored by those complaining about train fare rises ?

Yes and I don't care.

I drive a car as well and I'm well aware how much of every litre of fuel is covered by taxation and then I consider who mends the roads - Highways England, now, who owns Highways England, aren't they the same as Network Rail ? Local authority highway departments - a really successful history of partnership with Amey, Carillion and the like (giggle).

Drivers have plenty to complain about too but you seem more interested in having a pop at train travellers - how has the price of petrol moved against inflation since 1990 ? As for insurance, wholeheartedly agree, what are we going to do about it ?

Compared to 1995 the petrol price is about 25% higher when inflation is taken into account.

Philip_Thompson said:

That's still not making the case for Saudi Arabia's regime though.

Selling weapons is a far more tangible and meaningful gesture of support than Jez chatting shit for half an hour to a drafty room full of arseholes who have nothing better to do on a Tuesday night.

TheScreamingEagles said:

The government can find £15 billion for Crossrail but not a few million for electrification in the North.

Bring back the Northern Powerhouse.

The Government only found about £4.5 billion for Crossrail out of national taxpayer funds. London fare payers, business ratepayers and developers are funding the majority - two thirds - of the costs by borrowing taken out by the Mayor and TfL. And the government's investment will be repaid many times over by the extra economic benefits generated by the scheme.

The Treasury likes projects in London - they get their money back several times over.

SandyRentool said:

JosiasJessop said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

The government can find £15 billion for Crossrail but not a few million for electrification in the North.

Bring back the Northern Powerhouse.

Millions are being spent in 'the north', including many electrification schemes. Besides, has the trans-Pennine electrification been officially scrapped yet? You might also want to look at all the upgrades happening 'up north', including a short but rather useful chord line opened in Manchester just last month:

https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/our-routes/lnw/ordsall-chord/

You whinging Yorkshiremen should feel sorry for us Midlanders: trapped between your ungrateful whinging and the southerners' gilt-edged infrastructure - the Midland line electrification has been cancelled north of ?Kettering?.

And all because the west country folk got their line electrified first. Blooming copper-topped lucky goits! ...

The Ordsall Chord ain't exactly Crossrail. At the moment only one train each way per hour (off peak only) uses it because we don't have any extra trains yet. While some of these will be new, others will be cast-offs from the west country and Scotland - ie those areas with ongoing electrification projects.

Meanwhile, Trans-Pennine Express had a franchise obligation to introduce new loco-hauled services before the end of 2017. So what did they do? Cobbled together a set of manky old stock to run one unadvertised return journey between Manchester Piccadilly and Manchester Airport on December 30th. One carriage was in total darkness. And for that they can claim Job Done.

The Ordsall Chord is a really useful addition, which is why it was done. It'll become more utilised with time.

We have a real problem with rolling stock upgrades atm. The nationalised Network Rail's utter failure wrt electrification has meant that orders for new stock and the consequent cascades are pretty much in chaos. Add in the ?2020? deadline for removal of non-disabled compliant stock, and it's going to get worse before it gets better.

Morris_Dancer said:

But, Mr. Herdson, what do you think will happen in the Italian and Swedish elections?

Mr. 43, better yet, imagine a democratic Iran. People are right to say regime change could make things worse, but it could also make things better, and the argument (which you've not made but I've seen elsewhere) that the Iranians should tolerate oppression because it brings stability is less than convincing.

1. Italy will end up with some social-democrat-led coalition, not a million miles from what it has now. Sweden I don't know much about (ask NickP!)

2. Given the choice between sandwiches and freedom, people will invariably choose sandwiches. The trick with reform is to keep the factories and shops open. i don't think the Iranians should 'tolerate' oppression but nor do I think it's realistic in any country with no history of the full freedoms needed to make democracy work, to jump straight to what the likes of Western Europe has. If democracy were introduced today to Iran, the result would probably be much like when Egypt tried: the Islamic parties would dominate because they'd be so much better organised. Before introducing democracy, Iran needs to build up the mentality of a free civil society.

An interim non-Islamic dictatorship would probably be a necessary step. The risk of trying to run before you can walk is that you trip up, fall flat on your face and become sceptical of the whole idea of running. Though of course the risks there are that the regime finds 'reasons' to prolong a the temporary interim stage into something permanent, while replicating the repression and corruption of most dictatorships.

Mr. Herdson, reckon Five Star will get most seats?

Sandwiches are very tasty. Yet another great British contribution to civilisation.

SandyRentool said:

Off topic: Today was meant to be my first day back at work after the Christmas break. Instead I am sat in bed drinking Lemsip and using tissues at a very rapid rate.

At least I've got you lot for company!

Are you calling us all a snivelling bunch, then ?

I don't blame people for hating on train fare rises. If the trains weren't late, packed and rubbish then people might get on board for an RPI+ rise. As I remember it, there were yearly 5% fare rises and the same shite trains, just as packed as ever, if more more so.

Whatever one thinks of how expensive Switzerland is, my monthly Zurich travel pass is about 100 francs, and my fiancé's monthly all Swiss pass is 230 francs (which allows her to travel on any train, bus or tram in the whole bloody country). Plus the trains are never late here. When they are it's a local scandal and the SBB hold all kinds of investigations.

FF43 said:

david_herdson said:

On the topic of predictions, a few thoughts on the thread starting here:

https://twitter.com/DavidHerdson/status/948123201732730880

Agree with most of these. Merkel is hardest to call. She has been around forever and at some point she has to go. Is now the time? But something not well understood over here: the current situation is tailor made for Angela Merkel. She is really, really good at creating consensuses, which is what is needed now. Germans expect her to do it.

I agree with that but I don't see how she can put together a coalition (indeed, if she could, I think she would have done by now, for the reasons you say). The SPD will remain extremely wary of going back into a Merkel-led government and getting the Greens, FPD and all wings of the CDU-CSU into the same tent will always prove extremely difficult - which is why I think it'll take another election to prompt one of those outcomes (and those are the only realistic outcomes), and if she can't do it, I think that'll be the time for her to call it quits so that someone else can lead her party into the new elections and have a go at forming a government afterwards.

david_herdson said:

On the topic of predictions, a few thoughts on the thread starting here:

https://twitter.com/DavidHerdson/status/948123201732730880

Excellent predictions, pithily expressed.

TwistedFireStopper said:

I can count the number of return train journeys I've taken on a couple of limbs (note- I'm not from Norfolk). The last time I considered taking the train down to that shittole London, the quoted price was well North of 300 quid for me and my lad. I declined the chance to spend an hour on a train amongst the plebs and bunged 40 quid worth's of petrol in the car and spent 90 minutes on the M1 instead.

To mangle a quote that Thatcher never said, "anyone on a train paying 550 quid a month to go to that shittole London needs to have a word with themselves"

£300? Not doubting you, obvs, but you must have spent a lot of time trying to find the most expensive ticket available.

OldKingCole said:

Morris_Dancer said:

King Cole, a fair comment. More should be said and done about Saudi funding for fundamentalist schooling overseas.

However, that doesn't wash away the Leader of the Opposition's overt support for a despotic regime. Doing business with a regime because confining oneself to only trading with Western liberal democracies is seriously economically harmful is one thing. Going out of your way to praise how wonderful a despotic regime is, is quite another.

Indeed; praising the Iranian regime is strange, although, the monarchy wasn’t a shining beacon either.
Regarding Mossadeq as irredeemably hostile didn’t work out well, either.

Arguably oil was the curse of the twentieth century.

And the start of the twenty-first. Operation Iraqi Freedom was 2003.

Richard_Nabavi said:

david_herdson said:

On the topic of predictions, a few thoughts on the thread starting here:

https://twitter.com/DavidHerdson/status/948123201732730880

Excellent predictions, pithily expressed.

Basically not much change.

Which is usually right.

Stark_Dawning said:

It's almost beyond doubt now that Theresa will lead the Tories at the next general election. There's no one willing or able to challenge her and she's not going anywhere. In fact, I can't see her giving up the leadership ever.

I hope you are right and we can look forward to the Maybot yelling 'Nothing has changed! Nothing has changed!' in dozens of warehouses up and down the country during the election campaign.

TOPPING said:

TwistedFireStopper said:

I can count the number of return train journeys I've taken on a couple of limbs (note- I'm not from Norfolk). The last time I considered taking the train down to that shittole London, the quoted price was well North of 300 quid for me and my lad. I declined the chance to spend an hour on a train amongst the plebs and bunged 40 quid worth's of petrol in the car and spent 90 minutes on the M1 instead.

To mangle a quote that Thatcher never said, "anyone on a train paying 550 quid a month to go to that shittole London needs to have a word with themselves"

£300? Not doubting you, obvs, but you must have spent a lot of time trying to find the most expensive ticket available.

It was short notice and travelling at peak times. Just done a quick google and the same journey tomorrow would still cost 254 quid. I'd still use the car!

TwistedFireStopper said:

TOPPING said:

TwistedFireStopper said:

I can count the number of return train journeys I've taken on a couple of limbs (note- I'm not from Norfolk). The last time I considered taking the train down to that shittole London, the quoted price was well North of 300 quid for me and my lad. I declined the chance to spend an hour on a train amongst the plebs and bunged 40 quid worth's of petrol in the car and spent 90 minutes on the M1 instead.

To mangle a quote that Thatcher never said, "anyone on a train paying 550 quid a month to go to that shittole London needs to have a word with themselves"

£300? Not doubting you, obvs, but you must have spent a lot of time trying to find the most expensive ticket available.

It was short notice and travelling at peak times. Just done a quick google and the same journey tomorrow would still cost 254 quid. I'd still use the car!

Yes fair enough if it's on the spur of the moment it'll cost you. I suppose that's how they structure it, whatever the increase. As to taking a car on the M1? I hate it. Depending on which side of the county you're on, the A1 is a better bet 10/10 times IMO.

Dura_Ace said:

Philip_Thompson said:

That's still not making the case for Saudi Arabia's regime though.

Selling weapons is a far more tangible and meaningful gesture of support than Jez chatting shit for half an hour to a drafty room full of arseholes who have nothing better to do on a Tuesday night.

No if we were gifting weapons then that would be a tangible and meaningful gesture of support.

Selling weapons is a transaction with a cost attached. What cost was Jez given that you think is equivalent?

If Saudi Arabia weren't willing to meet our prices demanded they'd get nothing from us. Jez gave his support for free because he actually supports them.

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Divvie, I posted this in reply to Mr. Ace's insightful and wise comment. I repost it for you to answer, if you wish:

"Mr. Ace, the Second Punic War is not, alas, a subject of interest for most of the population. That doesn't stop me posting about it here.

And like Minucius Rufus, the Cunctator's magister equitum, you've completely missed the point. You think it's a good thing we have a Leader of the Opposition that, four years ago, was making the case for Iran's regime?"

If Ruth Davidson were in favour of a regime that executes homosexuals and makes the hijab mandatory for women would you refrain from remarking upon it?

Edited extra bit: I posted this at the same time as you actually replied to the above.

Show me the Conservative MP who has made the case for Saudi Arabia at an event commemorating the nation's founding (or founding of current political governance structure) and I'll happily condemn them.

I'm not aware of Ruth's position on Iran or Saudi (or for that matter the DUP), but outside 'No to Indy Ref II', what other consistent positions does she have?


Here's Tessy not making the case for Saudi Arabia.

https://twitter.com/JasonLiosatos/status/943147693395898368


Here's Her Britannic Majesty's Ambassador to SA not commemorating the nation's founding (or founding of current political governance structure).

'On the occasion of Saudi National Day, I am reminded of the great history of Saudi Arabia. Today, the Saudi people can rightly proud of their nation, of their history and their developments. Saudi Arabia is a strong nation, an important player in the world and a close friend and partner of the UK. I am looking forward to celebrating the anniversary of 100 years of relations between our two Kingdoms in December this year.'

https://tinyurl.com/y7sgsnq7

DavidL said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Lots of politics on train fares and the media coverage of the demonstrations show small groups of RMT members with little or no passenger involvement.

An interview on early 5 live with a group of business passengers said they always buy cheap advance fares at a considerable saving.

Just to check the position the single fare for today's 2.00pm Colwyn Bay to Euston is £91.00 and the same train tomorrow is £28.00

Just needs sensible planning to save a fortune

That is what really pisses me off about rail fares. Those who need flexibility and to use the system at short notice get totally ripped off to subsidise those with more predictable needs. My sympathy with regular commuters with their season tickets is extremely limited.

Arguably they should be charging baseline pricing for commuters, high prices for 0.5 - 7 days before travel and then marginal cost for the last few hours before departure...

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Rentool, one shall sacrifice a goat to Asclepius on your behalf.

Which person in the Government of All the Talents will be sacrificed?

Nominations?

DavidL said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Lots of politics on train fares and the media coverage of the demonstrations show small groups of RMT members with little or no passenger involvement.

An interview on early 5 live with a group of business passengers said they always buy cheap advance fares at a considerable saving.

Just to check the position the single fare for today's 2.00pm Colwyn Bay to Euston is £91.00 and the same train tomorrow is £28.00

Just needs sensible planning to save a fortune

That is what really pisses me off about rail fares. Those who need flexibility and to use the system at short notice get totally ripped off to subsidise those with more predictable needs. My sympathy with regular commuters with their season tickets is extremely limited.

Ironic, this Government (or it’s satrap) suggesting it’s advisable to plan ahead!

Philip_Thompson said:

malcolmg said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Ace, the Second Punic War is not, alas, a subject of interest for most of the population. That doesn't stop me posting about it here.

And like Minucius Rufus, the Cunctator's magister equitum, you've completely missed the point. You think it's a good thing we have a Leader of the Opposition that, four years ago, was making the case for Iran's regime?

Better, worse or about the same as a government currently making ng the case for the Saudi regime?

Also selling them the bombs to kill innocent children, real charmers. Best they can say is somebody else would sell them bombs if we didn't.

Best they can say is that it provides productive jobs, a secure income etc to our own citizens. You'd rather another nation got that wealth?

That's still not making the case for Saudi Arabia's regime though.

I would rather not be labelled with being party to murdering innocent people for money. It is totally wrong.

TOPPING said:

TwistedFireStopper said:

TOPPING said:

TwistedFireStopper said:

I can count the number of return train journeys I've taken on a couple of limbs (note- I'm not from Norfolk). The last time I considered taking the train down to that shittole London, the quoted price was well North of 300 quid for me and my lad. I declined the chance to spend an hour on a train amongst the plebs and bunged 40 quid worth's of petrol in the car and spent 90 minutes on the M1 instead.

To mangle a quote that Thatcher never said, "anyone on a train paying 550 quid a month to go to that shittole London needs to have a word with themselves"

£300? Not doubting you, obvs, but you must have spent a lot of time trying to find the most expensive ticket available.

It was short notice and travelling at peak times. Just done a quick google and the same journey tomorrow would still cost 254 quid. I'd still use the car!

Yes fair enough if it's on the spur of the moment it'll cost you. I suppose that's how they structure it, whatever the increase. As to taking a car on the M1? I hate it. Depending on which side of the county you're on, the A1 is a better bet 10/10 times IMO.

The A1 is good now from Catterick down to Peterborough All three laned motorway..However surprisingly crap near London still roundabouts and no upgrading to motorway status .

DavidL said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Lots of politics on train fares and the media coverage of the demonstrations show small groups of RMT members with little or no passenger involvement.

An interview on early 5 live with a group of business passengers said they always buy cheap advance fares at a considerable saving.

Just to check the position the single fare for today's 2.00pm Colwyn Bay to Euston is £91.00 and the same train tomorrow is £28.00

Just needs sensible planning to save a fortune

That is what really pisses me off about rail fares. Those who need flexibility and to use the system at short notice get totally ripped off to subsidise those with more predictable needs. My sympathy with regular commuters with their season tickets is extremely limited.

How is your one-off ten quid ticket possibly 'subsidising' my £3,400 a year?

David_Evershed said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Rentool, one shall sacrifice a goat to Asclepius on your behalf.

Which person in the Government of All the Talents will be sacrificed?

Nominations?

Lord Adonis stepped forward?

Yorkcity said:

TOPPING said:

TwistedFireStopper said:

TOPPING said:

TwistedFireStopper said:

I can count the number of return train journeys I've taken on a couple of limbs (note- I'm not from Norfolk). The last time I considered taking the train down to that shittole London, the quoted price was well North of 300 quid for me and my lad. I declined the chance to spend an hour on a train amongst the plebs and bunged 40 quid worth's of petrol in the car and spent 90 minutes on the M1 instead.

To mangle a quote that Thatcher never said, "anyone on a train paying 550 quid a month to go to that shittole London needs to have a word with themselves"

£300? Not doubting you, obvs, but you must have spent a lot of time trying to find the most expensive ticket available.

It was short notice and travelling at peak times. Just done a quick google and the same journey tomorrow would still cost 254 quid. I'd still use the car!

Yes fair enough if it's on the spur of the moment it'll cost you. I suppose that's how they structure it, whatever the increase. As to taking a car on the M1? I hate it. Depending on which side of the county you're on, the A1 is a better bet 10/10 times IMO.

The A1 is good now from Catterick down to Peterborough All three laned motorway..However surprisingly crap near London still roundabouts and no upgrading to motorway status .

But it's still fast flowing and very few jams. Plus if you are coming from afar, then the roundabouts help to keep you alert, IMO.

DavidL said:

On topic I can’t help believing that the cause of the current stalemate is that none of the major parties are offering anything that we want. The government gives the impression of being obsessed with Brexit, way, way beyond the attention span of 95% of the population; Labour are incoherent and shambolic under Corbyn and the Lib Dem’s remain largely invisible. In Scotland the gloss continues to come off the SNP but SLAB are still unbelievably chaotic with little to say.

A genuine NOTA party could well do a Macron in such a scenario but it is not yet on the horizon.

You forgot to mention that Ruthie has disappeared completely David, has she managed a constituency surgery yet, or mentioned what the feeble 13 have achieved so far at Westminster.

malcolmg said:

Philip_Thompson said:

malcolmg said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Ace, the Second Punic War is not, alas, a subject of interest for most of the population. That doesn't stop me posting about it here.

And like Minucius Rufus, the Cunctator's magister equitum, you've completely missed the point. You think it's a good thing we have a Leader of the Opposition that, four years ago, was making the case for Iran's regime?

Better, worse or about the same as a government currently making ng the case for the Saudi regime?

Also selling them the bombs to kill innocent children, real charmers. Best they can say is somebody else would sell them bombs if we didn't.

Best they can say is that it provides productive jobs, a secure income etc to our own citizens. You'd rather another nation got that wealth?

That's still not making the case for Saudi Arabia's regime though.

I would rather not be labelled with being party to murdering innocent people for money. It is totally wrong.

We're not murdering anyone.

If there are global sanctions (eg Apartheid South Africa, today's North Korea) then absolutely selling weapons and breaking the sanctions would make you a party.

If a nation is in the global marketplace and has lots of nations they can purchase arms from then unilaterally refusing a sale achieves nothing in preventing the sale and simply harms ourselves.

What good does that achieve?

Charles said:

DavidL said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Lots of politics on train fares and the media coverage of the demonstrations show small groups of RMT members with little or no passenger involvement.

An interview on early 5 live with a group of business passengers said they always buy cheap advance fares at a considerable saving.

Just to check the position the single fare for today's 2.00pm Colwyn Bay to Euston is £91.00 and the same train tomorrow is £28.00

Just needs sensible planning to save a fortune

That is what really pisses me off about rail fares. Those who need flexibility and to use the system at short notice get totally ripped off to subsidise those with more predictable needs. My sympathy with regular commuters with their season tickets is extremely limited.

Arguably they should be charging baseline pricing for commuters, high prices for 0.5 - 7 days before travel and then marginal cost for the last few hours before departure...

They are there to generate general utility for the country (there are plenty of positive externalities), to maximise profit for reinvestment and returns, and to provide a good service to customers. No idea what order those should be in, that said but I'm sure ( @JosiasJessop? ) there is an established relationship.

As to the pricing, I think many (every?) provider of such services (easyjet, BA, etc) has such a structure. As the necessity increases, so does the price. Your suggestion is interesting - I think they do part of it (high prices 0.5 - 7 days of high prices), as to marginal costs for walk-ins, well that surely is where their pricing power is greatest plus it would create a huge free rider problem. Literally!

malcolmg said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Divvie, I posted this in reply to Mr. Ace's insightful and wise comment. I repost it for you to answer, if you wish:

"Mr. Ace, the Second Punic War is not, alas, a subject of interest for most of the population. That doesn't stop me posting about it here.

And like Minucius Rufus, the Cunctator's magister equitum, you've completely missed the point. You think it's a good thing we have a Leader of the Opposition that, four years ago, was making the case for Iran's regime?"

If Ruth Davidson were in favour of a regime that executes homosexuals and makes the hijab mandatory for women would you refrain from remarking upon it?

Edited extra bit: I posted this at the same time as you actually replied to the above.

Show me the Conservative MP who has made the case for Saudi Arabia at an event commemorating the nation's founding (or founding of current political governance structure) and I'll happily condemn them.

I'm not aware of Ruth's position on Iran or Saudi (or for that matter the DUP), but outside 'No to Indy Ref II', what other consistent positions does she have?


Here's Tessy not making the case for Saudi Arabia.

https://twitter.com/JasonLiosatos/status/943147693395898368


Here's Her Britannic Majesty's Ambassador to SA not commemorating the nation's founding (or founding of current political governance structure).

'On the occasion of Saudi National Day, I am reminded of the great history of Saudi Arabia. Today, the Saudi people can rightly proud of their nation, of their history and their developments. Saudi Arabia is a strong nation, an important player in the world and a close friend and partner of the UK. I am looking forward to celebrating the anniversary of 100 years of relations between our two Kingdoms in December this year.'

https://tinyurl.com/y7sgsnq7

Ruthie's positions are like the town clock, a different face for each audience.

But the faces all tell the same time though?

david_herdson said:

malcolmg said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Divvie, I posted this in reply to Mr. Ace's insightful and wise comment. I repost it for you to answer, if you wish:

"Mr. Ace, the Second Punic War is not, alas, a subject of interest for most of the population. That doesn't stop me posting about it here.

And like Minucius Rufus, the Cunctator's magister equitum, you've completely missed the point. You think it's a good thing we have a Leader of the Opposition that, four years ago, was making the case for Iran's regime?"

If Ruth Davidson were in favour of a regime that executes homosexuals and makes the hijab mandatory for women would you refrain from remarking upon it?

Edited extra bit: I posted this at the same time as you actually replied to the above.

Show me the Conservative MP who has made the case for Saudi Arabia at an event commemorating the nation's founding (or founding of current political governance structure) and I'll happily condemn them.

I'm not aware of Ruth's position on Iran or Saudi (or for that matter the DUP), but outside 'No to Indy Ref II', what other consistent positions does she have?


Here's Tessy not making the case for Saudi Arabia.

https://twitter.com/JasonLiosatos/status/943147693395898368


Here's Her Britannic Majesty's Ambassador to SA not commemorating the nation's founding (or founding of current political governance structure).

'On the occasion of Saudi National Day, I am reminded of the great history of Saudi Arabia. Today, the Saudi people can rightly proud of their nation, of their history and their developments. Saudi Arabia is a strong nation, an important player in the world and a close friend and partner of the UK. I am looking forward to celebrating the anniversary of 100 years of relations between our two Kingdoms in December this year.'

https://tinyurl.com/y7sgsnq7

Ruthie's positions are like the town clock, a different face for each audience.

But the faces all tell the same time though?

5 minutes to No to Indy Ref II?

david_herdson said:

MattW said:

DavidL said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Lots of politics on train fares and the media coverage of the demonstrations show small groups of RMT members with little or no passenger involvement.

An interview on early 5 live with a group of business passengers said they always buy cheap advance fares at a considerable saving.

Just to check the position the single fare for today's 2.00pm Colwyn Bay to Euston is £91.00 and the same train tomorrow is £28.00

Just needs sensible planning to save a fortune

That is what really pisses me off about rail fares. Those who need flexibility and to use the system at short notice get totally ripped off to subsidise those with more predictable needs. My sympathy with regular commuters with their season tickets is extremely limited.

I would call that those who choose to use flexibility pay an appropriate amount for it.

It is possible to get very inexpensive tickets just the night before - it shouldn't be beyond the means of a modern man to plan a couple of days in advance most of the time.

If you choose to run your life such that you need to book tickets at 15 minutes notice, then of course they should be more expensive. It is about optimising use of a resource.

At 15 minutes' notice, there's an argument that they should be dirt cheap as the train would otherwise be going with the seat empty.

That's not the way it works. They have no idea if the seat will be empty or full: it is not an airline, and booking is not mandatory. A ticket also does not guarantee you a seat.

malcolmg said:

Philip_Thompson said:

malcolmg said:

Philip_Thompson said:

malcolmg said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Ace, the Second Punic War is not, alas, a subject of interest for most of the population. That doesn't stop me posting about it here.

And like Minucius Rufus, the Cunctator's magister equitum, you've completely missed the point. You think it's a good thing we have a Leader of the Opposition that, four years ago, was making the case for Iran's regime?

Better, worse or about the same as a government currently making ng the case for the Saudi regime?

Also selling them the bombs to kill innocent children, real charmers. Best they can say is somebody else would sell them bombs if we didn't.

Best they can say is that it provides productive jobs, a secure income etc to our own citizens. You'd rather another nation got that wealth?

That's still not making the case for Saudi Arabia's regime though.

I would rather not be labelled with being party to murdering innocent people for money. It is totally wrong.

We're not murdering anyone.

If there are global sanctions (eg Apartheid South Africa, today's North Korea) then absolutely selling weapons and breaking the sanctions would make you a party.

If a nation is in the global marketplace and has lots of nations they can purchase arms from then unilaterally refusing a sale achieves nothing in preventing the sale and simply harms ourselves.

What good does that achieve?

You seen the state of Yemen from Saudi dropping British bought bombs indiscriminately, murdering and starving innocent civilians and children. You may think that making a profit justifies that , personally I think it is abhorrent and typical of Tories who are in general heartless sh**s, especially if it makes them a profit.

If we had refused to sell Saudi any bombs would they have failed to buy bombs elsewhere? Yes or no?

If we had refused to sell Saudi any bombs would Yemen be better off? Yes or no?

JosiasJessop said:

Yorkcity said:

TOPPING said:

TwistedFireStopper said:

TOPPING said:

TwistedFireStopper said:

I can count the number of return train journeys I've taken on a couple of limbs (note- I'm not from Norfolk). The last time I considered taking the train down to that shittole London, the quoted price was well North of 300 quid for me and my lad. I declined the chance to spend an hour on a train amongst the plebs and bunged 40 quid worth's of petrol in the car and spent 90 minutes on the M1 instead.

To mangle a quote that Thatcher never said, "anyone on a train paying 550 quid a month to go to that shittole London needs to have a word with themselves"

£300? Not doubting you, obvs, but you must have spent a lot of time trying to find the most expensive ticket available.

It was short notice and travelling at peak times. Just done a quick google and the same journey tomorrow would still cost 254 quid. I'd still use the car!

Yes fair enough if it's on the spur of the moment it'll cost you. I suppose that's how they structure it, whatever the increase. As to taking a car on the M1? I hate it. Depending on which side of the county you're on, the A1 is a better bet 10/10 times IMO.

The A1 is good now from Catterick down to Peterborough All three laned motorway..However surprisingly crap near London still roundabouts and no upgrading to motorway status .

They can't do much about the Black Cat until they sort out what's happening with the A428. The whole thing needs a bypass: it's mad to think that some houses near Sandy have front doors that open out directly onto the A1 dual carriageway ...

If the A1 South of Peterborough were a building, it would surely be a Grade 1 listed historic monument by now. It really does just feel like driving back into the 1950s in places, especially through some of the Hertfordshire new towns. And some of the OK Diners and olde worlde service areas extend further north up to Doncaster as well. It's all pretty damn weird tbh.

Dura_Ace said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Here's Tessy not making the case for Saudi Arabia.

https://twitter.com/JasonLiosatos/status/943147693395898368

Indeed she's not making the case for them. Do you struggle to understand the meaning of the word "sell". You don't sell things to only people that you like, you sell to people willing to pay the price. It's a transaction not support.

So was Jezza not supporting Iran when got paid to go on PressTV?

Not in the same way no, he was selling himself to them.

malcolmg said:

Philip_Thompson said:

malcolmg said:

Philip_Thompson said:

malcolmg said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Ace, the Second Punic War is not, alas, a subject of interest for most of the population. That doesn't stop me posting about it here.

And like Minucius Rufus, the Cunctator's magister equitum, you've completely missed the point. You think it's a good thing we have a Leader of the Opposition that, four years ago, was making the case for Iran's regime?

Better, worse or about the same as a government currently making ng the case for the Saudi regime?

Also selling them the bombs to kill innocent children, real charmers. Best they can say is somebody else would sell them bombs if we didn't.

Best they can say is that it provides productive jobs, a secure income etc to our own citizens. You'd rather another nation got that wealth?

That's still not making the case for Saudi Arabia's regime though.

I would rather not be labelled with being party to murdering innocent people for money. It is totally wrong.

We're not murdering anyone.

If there are global sanctions (eg Apartheid South Africa, today's North Korea) then absolutely selling weapons and breaking the sanctions would make you a party.

If a nation is in the global marketplace and has lots of nations they can purchase arms from then unilaterally refusing a sale achieves nothing in preventing the sale and simply harms ourselves.

What good does that achieve?

You seen the state of Yemen from Saudi dropping British bought bombs indiscriminately, murdering and starving innocent civilians and children. You may think that making a profit justifies that , personally I think it is abhorrent and typical of Tories who are in general heartless sh**s, especially if it makes them a profit.

They are going to buy the bombs from someone, better us than Russia.

Stark_Dawning said:

Where's this strange idea that buying a train ticket also buys you a seat come from?

Certainly not from Jezza!

JosiasJessop said:

david_herdson said:

MattW said:

DavidL said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Lots of politics on train fares and the media coverage of the demonstrations show small groups of RMT members with little or no passenger involvement.

An interview on early 5 live with a group of business passengers said they always buy cheap advance fares at a considerable saving.

Just to check the position the single fare for today's 2.00pm Colwyn Bay to Euston is £91.00 and the same train tomorrow is £28.00

Just needs sensible planning to save a fortune

That is what really pisses me off about rail fares. Those who need flexibility and to use the system at short notice get totally ripped off to subsidise those with more predictable needs. My sympathy with regular commuters with their season tickets is extremely limited.

I would call that those who choose to use flexibility pay an appropriate amount for it.

It is possible to get very inexpensive tickets just the night before - it shouldn't be beyond the means of a modern man to plan a couple of days in advance most of the time.

If you choose to run your life such that you need to book tickets at 15 minutes notice, then of course they should be more expensive. It is about optimising use of a resource.

At 15 minutes' notice, there's an argument that they should be dirt cheap as the train would otherwise be going with the seat empty.

That's not the way it works. They have no idea if the seat will be empty or full: it is not an airline, and booking is not mandatory. A ticket also does not guarantee you a seat.

No, I know. Although they do know whether a specific seat has been reserved or not - for a journey of any distance, anyway.

I was making a bit of a devil's advocate case - if there is an unsold seat, it won't always be the potential traveller who is the more desperate of the two sides to complete the transaction.

FF43 said:

Philip_Thompson said:

malcolmg said:

Philip_Thompson said:

malcolmg said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Ace, the Second Punic War is not, alas, a subject of interest for most of the population. That doesn't stop me posting about it here.

And like Minucius Rufus, the Cunctator's magister equitum, you've completely missed the point. You think it's a good thing we have a Leader of the Opposition that, four years ago, was making the case for Iran's regime?

Better, worse or about the same as a government currently making ng the case for the Saudi regime?

Also selling them the bombs to kill innocent children, real charmers. Best they can say is somebody else would sell them bombs if we didn't.

Best they can say is that it provides productive jobs, a secure income etc to our own citizens. You'd rather another nation got that wealth?

That's still not making the case for Saudi Arabia's regime though.

I would rather not be labelled with being party to murdering innocent people for money. It is totally wrong.

We're not murdering anyone.

If there are global sanctions (eg Apartheid South Africa, today's North Korea) then absolutely selling weapons and breaking the sanctions would make you a party.

If a nation is in the global marketplace and has lots of nations they can purchase arms from then unilaterally refusing a sale achieves nothing in preventing the sale and simply harms ourselves.

What good does that achieve?

That would be the drug dealers self-justification. Someone will supply the heroin. We might as well get the profit from it. Not a comfortable argument.

No it's not remotely the same as drug dealers since drug dealers are acting illegally, which would be the equivalent of us breaking international sanctions.

The equivalent of us selling arms on the global marketplace to nations that aren't under sanctions is supermarkets selling tobacco. Yes tobacco is addictive, dangerous and deadly, but it is also legal.

The pound is stronger against the dollar today at 1.354

Although another way to look at it is that the dollar is weaker (as is the Euro).