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Did you unzip in the parlour, said the spider to a Tory MP's fly?
I'll get my coat.0 -
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There was a moment when I was driving in that traffic jam that is the M8 tonight when I could have sworn that someone said that the rape of a tory volunteer had been reported to the Chief Whip at the time, a Gavin some one or other, but nothing happened. It had the vague feel of trouble...0
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Great cartoon Marf!
Can't see Williamson ever getting enough MP votes to reach a members vote run-off though; As chief whip he will have pissed off too many MPs. IIRC Heath is the only former chief whip to ever become PM.0 -
Isn't it traditional for the country declaring war to er, make the declaration?DanSmith said:0 -
Andrea Leadsom was told that police were conducting a criminal investigation after a senior Conservative was reported for an allegation of rape but did not take any further action.DavidL said:There was a moment when I was driving in that traffic jam that is the M8 tonight when I could have sworn that someone said that the rape of a tory volunteer had been reported to the Chief Whip at the time, a Gavin some one or other, but nothing happened. It had the vague feel of trouble...
A female Tory activist has revealed she reported the allegation of rape and concerns about the "toxic" culture in Westminster to David Natzler, the Clerk of the House of Commons.
She was led to believe that her concerns about the alleged attack would be passed to Ms Leadsom, the then Leader of the Commons, and Gavin Williamson, the then Chief Whip.
However she was left feeling "worthless" after neither Ms Leadsom or Mr Williamson contacted her to discuss her allegations and there was no follow up from Parliamentary authorities.
Ms Leadsom initially denied that the rape allegation had been formally "referred" to her. However The Telegraph can disclose that she was informed by Mr Natzler that police were examining "criminal allegations".
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/06/tory-activist-says-raped-senior-party-figure-commons-ignored/0 -
FPTsurbiton said:
Brexit cheer for Christmas.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/nov/06/slump-uk-car-sales-deepens-12-percent-fall
As a society we are currently in the process of declaring all out war on the Car and the people who drive them (not saying that's necessarily a bad thing)
We shouldn't be surprised therefore that people are increasingly reluctant to buy... My guess is that motor car sales will go into a long-term decline over the next 10 years before a boom of electric cars takes place.0 -
They seem to be alleging that they did, Japanese style, by allowing Hezbollah to organise attacks on the Kingdom from the Lebanon.Benpointer said:
Isn't it traditional for the country declaring war to er, make the declaration?DanSmith said:
The Saudis do seem to be losing the place at the moment.0 -
Hezbollah's tails are up after routing IS - looks like they are going after the head of the Sunni snake ! I suggest we stay out of Iran Lebanon Vs Saudi !AndyJS said:0 -
Sounds as though Leadsom and Williamson are the truly worthless ones.TheScreamingEagles said:
Andrea Leadsom was told that police were conducting a criminal investigation after a senior Conservative was reported for an allegation of rape but did not take any further action.DavidL said:There was a moment when I was driving in that traffic jam that is the M8 tonight when I could have sworn that someone said that the rape of a tory volunteer had been reported to the Chief Whip at the time, a Gavin some one or other, but nothing happened. It had the vague feel of trouble...
A female Tory activist has revealed she reported the allegation of rape and concerns about the "toxic" culture in Westminster to David Natzler, the Clerk of the House of Commons.
She was led to believe that her concerns about the alleged attack would be passed to Ms Leadsom, the then Leader of the Commons, and Gavin Williamson, the then Chief Whip.
However she was left feeling "worthless" after neither Ms Leadsom or Mr Williamson contacted her to discuss her allegations and there was no follow up from Parliamentary authorities.
Ms Leadsom initially denied that the rape allegation had been formally "referred" to her. However The Telegraph can disclose that she was informed by Mr Natzler that police were examining "criminal allegations".
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/06/tory-activist-says-raped-senior-party-figure-commons-ignored/
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Could be like Japan's declaration of war on America in 1941, kinda held up as it was still being decoded.Benpointer said:
Isn't it traditional for the country declaring war to er, make the declaration?DanSmith said:0 -
It would just be a tragedy if she ended up having to stand down. Such a nice person. And a mother.TheScreamingEagles said:
Andrea Leadsom was told that police were conducting a criminal investigation after a senior Conservative was reported for an allegation of rape but did not take any further action.DavidL said:There was a moment when I was driving in that traffic jam that is the M8 tonight when I could have sworn that someone said that the rape of a tory volunteer had been reported to the Chief Whip at the time, a Gavin some one or other, but nothing happened. It had the vague feel of trouble...
A female Tory activist has revealed she reported the allegation of rape and concerns about the "toxic" culture in Westminster to David Natzler, the Clerk of the House of Commons.
She was led to believe that her concerns about the alleged attack would be passed to Ms Leadsom, the then Leader of the Commons, and Gavin Williamson, the then Chief Whip.
However she was left feeling "worthless" after neither Ms Leadsom or Mr Williamson contacted her to discuss her allegations and there was no follow up from Parliamentary authorities.
Ms Leadsom initially denied that the rape allegation had been formally "referred" to her. However The Telegraph can disclose that she was informed by Mr Natzler that police were examining "criminal allegations".
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/06/tory-activist-says-raped-senior-party-figure-commons-ignored/0 -
BBC should teach their website's 'live reporters' the difference between evaders and avoiders of tax..
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-41879690?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=5a00d33ae4b0cd5ea8fd9aa4&'This was not illegal'&&ns_fee=0#post_5a00d33ae4b0cd5ea8fd9aa40 -
On topic, wait until you hear Gavin Williamson speak.
He makes IDS sound like David Cameron.
Definitely laying Gavin Williamson in the next PM/Tory leader markets.0 -
@AndyJS here are some key reasons: inter generational unfairness, socially liberal, perception Tories dislike young people.0
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And tell the viewers their pensions are invested offshore - rank hypocrisyJonnyJimmy said:BBC should teach their website's 'live reporters' the difference between evaders and avoiders of tax..
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-41879690?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=5a00d33ae4b0cd5ea8fd9aa4&'This was not illegal'&&ns_fee=0#post_5a00d33ae4b0cd5ea8fd9aa40 -
The Paradise Papers might, just, have a similar effect to the Weinstein allegations.
The overwhelming evidence of relatively simply, blatant and massive tax avoidance/evasion - and the barefaced lies told by a number of those involved - is pretty nauseating.
(Though it would be fair to say that the comedy perpetrated by the Brown people is significantly more criminal than any of their tax arrangements.)0 -
BBC guidelines...JonnyJimmy said:BBC should teach their website's 'live reporters' the difference between evaders and avoiders of tax..
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-41879690?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=5a00d33ae4b0cd5ea8fd9aa4&'This was not illegal'&&ns_fee=0#post_5a00d33ae4b0cd5ea8fd9aa4
Tax avoiders - how we pay our talent in tax efficient manner
Tax evaders - how others pay themselves in tax efficient manner0 -
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FPT
Same reason they vote remain - because they're far better educated than old folk. Apparently.AndyJS said:
Why are they voting for Corbyn?The_Apocalypse said:If Conservatives believe that young people are voting for Corbyn because the education system ‘is filled with lefties’ then they are going to have even more trouble gaining ground with my generation than I originally thought.
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Presumably merely fiery rhetoric summarising their opinion of hostile political talk from Lebanon.rcs1000 said:
There are 688,000 people in the Saudi Armed forces, against 72,000 in the Lebanese.williamglenn said:
In terms of disparity of force, it would be a little bit like Belgium declaring war on Russia.
So, I think we can conclude that - whatever the Saudi foreign ministry says - Lebanon has not declared war on Saudia Arabia.
Knowing how pointless a lot of International Law is though, i'd bet a nation could claim another declared war on them, beat the 'declaring' side into submission, then have enough backers to avoid any long term reaction.0 -
The PM and Jeremy Corbyn and 'other party leaders' - they don't even get a name in the main text? Poor guys (and gals).Scott_P said:0 -
Similar schemes used by Mrs browns boy actors have already been ruled against.Nigelb said:The Paradise Papers might, just, have a similar effect to the Weinstein allegations.
The overwhelming evidence of relatively simply, blatant and massive tax avoidance/evasion - and the barefaced lies told by a number of those involved - is pretty nauseating.
(Though it would be fair to say that the comedy perpetrated by the Brown people is significantly more criminal than any of their tax arrangements.)0 -
The line between avoidance and evasion is hardly a clear one - as evidenced by the numerous changes in tax rules limiting avoidance in recent years - but when you have jurisdictions effectively legalising evasion, the distinction becomes meaningless for the wealthy avoiders.FrancisUrquhart said:
BBC guidelines...JonnyJimmy said:BBC should teach their website's 'live reporters' the difference between evaders and avoiders of tax..
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-41879690?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=5a00d33ae4b0cd5ea8fd9aa4&'This was not illegal'&&ns_fee=0#post_5a00d33ae4b0cd5ea8fd9aa4
Tax avoiders - how we pay our talent in tax efficient manner
Tax evaders - how others pay themselves in tax efficient manner0 -
Thanks. I think the Tories have always done relatively badly with young people, with the one exception of 1987 (according to MORI). That was probably something to do with the rise of the yuppies in the mid-80s.The_Apocalypse said:@AndyJS here are some key reasons: inter generational unfairness, socially liberal, perception Tories dislike young people.
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I'm astonished that Monaco resident Lewis H might be involved in tax planning.0
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The Tories have not won young people for decades, even Cameron lost under 35s in 2015.The_Apocalypse said:@AndyJS here are some key reasons: inter generational unfairness, socially liberal, perception Tories dislike young people.
It is middle aged 40 to 50 year olds they need to win back.
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I'm thinking of moving to Monaco if Brexit is a disaster/Corbyn is PM.Scrapheap_as_was said:I'm astonished that Monaco resident Lewis H might be involved in tax planning.
Canada's too far away.0 -
In a way, A little bit like the Panama papers I think it quite a good sign that no MPs or sitting lords were named.0
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Good investigative journalism. Greedy shits.0
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Scott_P said:
Sounds like the new lib dems ;-)0 -
Hamilton definitely owes 1.1 mill on his jet if my understanding of the 1979 IoM treasury VAT agreement is correct. The other 2.2 mill business portion is debatable I think. No doubt a full flight log of the Jets commercial and personal miles has been jet to ensure the 1/3 2/3 split has been adhered to.Nigelb said:
The line between avoidance and evasion is hardly a clear one - as evidenced by the numerous changes in tax rules limiting avoidance in recent years - but when you have jurisdictions effectively legalising evasion, the distinction becomes meaningless for the wealthy avoiders.FrancisUrquhart said:
BBC guidelines...JonnyJimmy said:BBC should teach their website's 'live reporters' the difference between evaders and avoiders of tax..
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-41879690?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=5a00d33ae4b0cd5ea8fd9aa4&'This was not illegal'&&ns_fee=0#post_5a00d33ae4b0cd5ea8fd9aa4
Tax avoiders - how we pay our talent in tax efficient manner
Tax evaders - how others pay themselves in tax efficient manner0 -
Monaco is like being exiled to Marseilles in the Roman Empire. Rich, but boring as hell.TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm thinking of moving to Monaco if Brexit is a disaster/Corbyn is PM.Scrapheap_as_was said:I'm astonished that Monaco resident Lewis H might be involved in tax planning.
Canada's too far away.0 -
Is Chappers involved in this?Scott_P said:
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I'll need to watch Panorama on iplayer to get some tips where to head to! Portugal appears to be offering lots of tax-breaks I gather to go there.TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm thinking of moving to Monaco if Brexit is a disaster/Corbyn is PM.Scrapheap_as_was said:I'm astonished that Monaco resident Lewis H might be involved in tax planning.
Canada's too far away.
We'll just need to ask where ave it and Sean T end up I guess....0 -
I need some boring in my life.Sean_F said:
Monaco is like being exiled to Marseilles in the Roman Empire. Rich, but boring as hell.TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm thinking of moving to Monaco if Brexit is a disaster/Corbyn is PM.Scrapheap_as_was said:I'm astonished that Monaco resident Lewis H might be involved in tax planning.
Canada's too far away.0 -
This one's called Advance, apparently. I wish well to all new parties (well, not neo-nazi ones), but I'll assume they'll disappear. For all people moan about the normal parties, and our broken system, most people are very loyal to those old parties, or at least afraid enough of one of them (depending on the area) to see them remain. UKIP did pretty well for a while but it ain't easy.Scott_P said:
Had a new party round my way announcing grand plans to stand in every seat in the locals to take on the entrenched parties, stand in all 98 seats, had a launch, consultation on proposals for policies a year out and even prepared a manifesto. In the end they stood in one seat where they got 1.3% even though the candidate, as an Indy, had come in third in the original PCC elections with over 11000 votes. I felt bad for them, when they talked about how people just hadn't come forward.
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I think the concern is more with the gap. I’d expect Labour win the ‘young’ vote but it’s shocking to see them poll 60+Andy_JS said:
Thanks. I think the Tories have always done relatively badly with young people, with the one exception of 1987 (according to MORI). That was probably something to do with the rise of the yuppies in the mid-80s.The_Apocalypse said:@AndyJS here are some key reasons: inter generational unfairness, socially liberal, perception Tories dislike young people.
%+ with young voters.
Although now, the term ‘younger voters’ has really come to mean the under 40s generally. While the Tories not doing well with 18-24 year olds is one thing, doing badly with those in their thirties and early forties is another thing.0 -
England's oldest ally.Scrapheap_as_was said:
I'll need to watch Panorama on iplayer to get some tips where to head to! Portugal appears to be offering lots of tax-breaks I gather to go there.TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm thinking of moving to Monaco if Brexit is a disaster/Corbyn is PM.Scrapheap_as_was said:I'm astonished that Monaco resident Lewis H might be involved in tax planning.
Canada's too far away.
I enjoyed my visits to Oporto0 -
The Conservatives won 45+ age groups. They went further backwards with the under 40s at this GE, they need to win members of that group back and recover some lost ground. In 2015 for example Labour only had a 3% lead among those aged 25-34.HYUFD said:
The Tories have not won young people for decades, even Cameron lost under 35s in 2015.The_Apocalypse said:@AndyJS here are some key reasons: inter generational unfairness, socially liberal, perception Tories dislike young people.
It is middle aged 40 to 50 year olds they need to win back.0 -
@AlbertoNardelli: Have been working on other things, but here's an update on Brexit progress since the European Council:
/ends0 -
Tottenham duo Harry Kane and Harry Winks have withdrawn from the England squad for the friendlies against Germany and Brazil due to injuries.
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Also I expect Lewis Instagram account could be helpful.to tax investigators ...0
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Nice cartoon, Marf 0
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phew... NLD upcoming.FrancisUrquhart said:Tottenham duo Harry Kane and Harry Winks have withdrawn from the England squad for the friendlies against Germany and Brazil due to injuries.
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How many of these 688K are currently deployed in the Yemen? And in blockading Qatar? And being ready for Iran? They really don't need any more fronts opening up right now.kle4 said:
Presumably merely fiery rhetoric summarising their opinion of hostile political talk from Lebanon.rcs1000 said:
There are 688,000 people in the Saudi Armed forces, against 72,000 in the Lebanese.williamglenn said:
In terms of disparity of force, it would be a little bit like Belgium declaring war on Russia.
So, I think we can conclude that - whatever the Saudi foreign ministry says - Lebanon has not declared war on Saudia Arabia.
Knowing how pointless a lot of International Law is though, i'd bet a nation could claim another declared war on them, beat the 'declaring' side into submission, then have enough backers to avoid any long term reaction.0 -
I'll be betting on Spurs to win that one. Easily.Scrapheap_as_was said:
phew... NLD upcoming.FrancisUrquhart said:Tottenham duo Harry Kane and Harry Winks have withdrawn from the England squad for the friendlies against Germany and Brazil due to injuries.
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Need to cut their days in the country to plan their financesFrancisUrquhart said:Tottenham duo Harry Kane and Harry Winks have withdrawn from the England squad for the friendlies against Germany and Brazil due to injuries.
? 0 -
My favourite restaurant is in Oporto, O Paparico. Incredibe place for 1/3 of the price of a similar standard restaurant in London.TheScreamingEagles said:
England's oldest ally.Scrapheap_as_was said:
I'll need to watch Panorama on iplayer to get some tips where to head to! Portugal appears to be offering lots of tax-breaks I gather to go there.TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm thinking of moving to Monaco if Brexit is a disaster/Corbyn is PM.Scrapheap_as_was said:I'm astonished that Monaco resident Lewis H might be involved in tax planning.
Canada's too far away.
I enjoyed my visits to Oporto
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How come the House of Saud has a bigger army than us?
I still reckon we could take them though. 16 AAB alone.0 -
Oh, I presume any new conflict would be unwelcome, and even a side that cannot outright defeat another can contribute to their defeat at others's hands, sap resources they do not want sapped, or be punishing enough to see any victory be Pyrrhic - I was just speculating how easy it is to claim the other side, in effect, declare war, and who would call you out on it if you won? At least, who that you would care about?DavidL said:
How many of these 688K are currently deployed in the Yemen? And in blockading Qatar? And being ready for Iran? They really don't need any more fronts opening up right now.kle4 said:
Presumably merely fiery rhetoric summarising their opinion of hostile political talk from Lebanon.rcs1000 said:
There are 688,000 people in the Saudi Armed forces, against 72,000 in the Lebanese.williamglenn said:
In terms of disparity of force, it would be a little bit like Belgium declaring war on Russia.
So, I think we can conclude that - whatever the Saudi foreign ministry says - Lebanon has not declared war on Saudia Arabia.
Knowing how pointless a lot of International Law is though, i'd bet a nation could claim another declared war on them, beat the 'declaring' side into submission, then have enough backers to avoid any long term reaction.0 -
The cartoon reminds me of Bertiespeak, from the much unlamented former Taoiseach of Ireland, Bertie Ahern: shutting down Lehmans was the worst ever decision of the American administration, "because Lehmans was a world investment bank. They had testicles everywhere."0
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Wait to see if any of our 'spine' is back... Lloris, Toby, Winks, Ali, Kane.TheScreamingEagles said:
I'll be betting on Spurs to win that one. Easily.Scrapheap_as_was said:
phew... NLD upcoming.FrancisUrquhart said:Tottenham duo Harry Kane and Harry Winks have withdrawn from the England squad for the friendlies against Germany and Brazil due to injuries.
Are Chile playing somewhere?0 -
Not been to that one (I think) but agree on the other restaurants.FrancisUrquhart said:
My favourite restaurant is in Oporto, O Paparico. Incredibe place for 1/3 of the price of a similar standard restaurant in London.TheScreamingEagles said:
England's oldest ally.Scrapheap_as_was said:
I'll need to watch Panorama on iplayer to get some tips where to head to! Portugal appears to be offering lots of tax-breaks I gather to go there.TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm thinking of moving to Monaco if Brexit is a disaster/Corbyn is PM.Scrapheap_as_was said:I'm astonished that Monaco resident Lewis H might be involved in tax planning.
Canada's too far away.
I enjoyed my visits to Oporto0 -
For the Tories to have fallen behind amongst working age people in census categories AB is remarkable.The_Apocalypse said:
The Conservatives won 45+ age groups. They went further backwards with the under 40s at this GE, they need to win members of that group back and recover some lost ground. In 2015 for example Labour only had a 3% lead among those aged 25-34.HYUFD said:
The Tories have not won young people for decades, even Cameron lost under 35s in 2015.The_Apocalypse said:@AndyJS here are some key reasons: inter generational unfairness, socially liberal, perception Tories dislike young people.
It is middle aged 40 to 50 year olds they need to win back.0 -
We don't want to pay for a bigger army. With the amount we waste on fancy equipment, people think we spend too much on what we do have. (No I don't think size of army is the only important thing)TheScreamingEagles said:How come the House of Saud has a bigger army than us?
I still reckon we could take them though. 16 AAB alone.0 -
or just ask Ken Livingstone for some tips... does he still have his limited company?Pulpstar said:
Need to cut their days in the country to plan their financesFrancisUrquhart said:Tottenham duo Harry Kane and Harry Winks have withdrawn from the England squad for the friendlies against Germany and Brazil due to injuries.
?0 -
Which of the main Tory possibles a) looks least like a politician and b) is least imaginable as having on his or her record any incidents of sexual harassment or condoning it?
Answer: JRM and Amber Rudd.
I haven't checked IDS or Tom Tugendhat's voting records (or Charles Kennedy's, or Tony Blair's), but I thought most Catholic MPs who attend mass more than once a year voted either "aye" to lawful abortion before the smallest number of weeks and "no" to all other available thresholds, or against it before any number of weeks. The joke being that they usually used to meet Ian Paisley in the voting lobby.
David Davis is too old to be welcomed as anything other than a caretaker. The Tories may or may not be about to go into opposition, but if they do then JRM has the look of someone who could stay in the job far longer than IDS, Michael Howard, or William Hague; and if they don't he will soon acquire the look of a highly capable potential prime minister. He could easily win enough support among MPs as the MPs' votes progress that whoever is the number two will drop out, obviating the need to ballot the membership.
He's a turnoff to metropolitan Labour-voting types and to pro-Remain "Tory Blairites", but who cares? He has the image of a non-politician politician - a guy with a smile, a genuinely pleasant manner (compare him to Boris in that respect), and an exceptionally quick brain, who is generally nice to people and unlikely to chase skirt. He doesn't at all look like a lying tricksy incompetent bullshitting bastard, which is what politicians in the country in all parties are increasingly coming across as. If that convinces 3+% of the overall voteshare to move away from Labour, he'll be hailed as a wonder boy.
The only group of Tory supporters he might alienate are the DUP! But don't underestimate that group's capacity for realpolitik. After all they have a long record of collaborating with Sinn Fein. They may demand a price to keep to their agreement on supply and confidence but I doubt that JRM's faith will upset them that much. I'm sure his team can write a speech on the implications of Brexit for British-Irish relations that will cheer them. "The present arrangement has had its ups and downs but it has worked, and the British exit from the EU does not require that we cause uncertainty by holding referendums about the border between our two countries, plebiscites which would only be divisive whatever their outcomes", and so on.0 -
Don't think so.Scrapheap_as_was said:
Wait to see if any of our 'spine' is back... Lloris, Toby, Winks, Ali, Kane.TheScreamingEagles said:
I'll be betting on Spurs to win that one. Easily.Scrapheap_as_was said:
phew... NLD upcoming.FrancisUrquhart said:Tottenham duo Harry Kane and Harry Winks have withdrawn from the England squad for the friendlies against Germany and Brazil due to injuries.
Are Chile playing somewhere?0 -
That has to be one of the biggest backfire attack in recent years..Hey boris you massive tax dodger...I actually pay even more tax than I need to, what about you....errrhhhh.Scrapheap_as_was said:
or just ask Ken Livingstone for some tips... does he still have his limited company?Pulpstar said:
Need to cut their days in the country to plan their financesFrancisUrquhart said:Tottenham duo Harry Kane and Harry Winks have withdrawn from the England squad for the friendlies against Germany and Brazil due to injuries.
?0 -
Ashcroft statement on his appearance on Panorama. Oh Dear! Oh Dear!
http://www.lordashcroft.com/2017/11/statement-lord-ashcroft/0 -
Welcome to PB - good postTrendyVicar said:Which of the main Tory possibles a) looks least like a politician and b) is least imaginable as having on his or her record any incidents of sexual harassment or condoning it?
Answer: JRM and Amber Rudd.
I haven't checked IDS or Tom Tugendhat's voting records (or Charles Kennedy's, or Tony Blair's), but I thought most Catholic MPs who attend mass more than once a year voted either "aye" to lawful abortion before the smallest number of weeks and "no" to all other available thresholds, or against it before any number of weeks. The joke being that they usually used to meet Ian Paisley in the voting lobby.
David Davis is too old to be welcomed as anything other than a caretaker. The Tories may or may not be about to go into opposition, but if they do then JRM has the look of someone who could stay in the job far longer than IDS, Michael Howard, or William Hague; and if they don't he will soon acquire the look of a highly capable potential prime minister. He could easily win enough support among MPs as the MPs' votes progress that whoever is the number two will drop out, obviating the need to ballot the membership.
He's a turnoff to metropolitan Labour-voting types and to pro-Remain "Tory Blairites", but who cares? He has the image of a non-politician politician - a guy with a smile, a genuinely pleasant manner (compare him to Boris in that respect), and an exceptionally quick brain, who is generally nice to people and unlikely to chase skirt. He doesn't at all look like a lying tricksy incompetent bullshitting bastard, which is what politicians in the country in all parties are increasingly coming across as. If that convinces 3+% of the overall voteshare to move away from Labour, he'll be hailed as a wonder boy.
The only group of Tory supporters he might alienate are the DUP! But don't underestimate that group's capacity for realpolitik. After all they have a long record of collaborating with Sinn Fein. They may demand a price to keep to their agreement on supply and confidence but I doubt that JRM's faith will upset them that much. I'm sure his team can write a speech on the implications of Brexit for British-Irish relations that will cheer them. "The present arrangement has had its ups and downs but it has worked, and the British exit from the EU does not require that we cause uncertainty by holding referendums about the border between our two countries, plebiscites which would only be divisive whatever their outcomes", and so on.0 -
Labour had a 3% lead amongst 25-34s in 2015 and a 29% lead in 2017 and a 16% lead amongst 18-24s in 2015 compared to a 35% lead in 2017.The_Apocalypse said:
The Conservatives won 45+ age groups. They went further backwards with the under 40s at this GE, they need to win members of that group back and recover some lost ground. In 2015 for example Labour only had a 3% lead among those aged 25-34.HYUFD said:
The Tories have not won young people for decades, even Cameron lost under 35s in 2015.The_Apocalypse said:@AndyJS here are some key reasons: inter generational unfairness, socially liberal, perception Tories dislike young people.
It is middle aged 40 to 50 year olds they need to win back.
The Tories had a 36% lead with over 65s in 2017 though compared to a 24% lead in 2015 and a 17% lead with 55 to 64s in 2017 compared to a 6% lead in 2015.
So Labour still beat the Tories with young people in 2015 and 2017 and the Tories beat Labour with old people in both 2015 and 2017 it was just the margins expanded significantly for both.
I agree some measures need to be taken on affordable housing to win back young people but it is 35 to 44s who are key. In 2015 the Tories tied with 35 to 44s but in 2017 they lost them by 16% (they won 45 to 54s by 3% in both 2015 and 2017).
https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/how-britain-voted-2015
https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/how-britain-voted-2017-election0 -
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As someone who used to do these reports for the Court I was quite glad not to have written the one saying this man was a fit and proper person for adoption. 2 weeks? Sheesh.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Those who are 35-40 are referred to now as ‘young people’ (in electoral terms) as I said in my earlier post.HYUFD said:
Labour had a 3% lead amongst 25-34s in 2015 and a 29% lead in 2017 and a 16% lead amongst 18-24s in 2015 compared to a 35% lead in 2017.The_Apocalypse said:
The Conservatives won 45+ age groups. They went further backwards with the under 40s at this GE, they need to win members of that group back and recover some lost ground. In 2015 for example Labour only had a 3% lead among those aged 25-34.HYUFD said:
The Tories have not won young people for decades, even Cameron lost under 35s in 2015.The_Apocalypse said:@AndyJS here are some key reasons: inter generational unfairness, socially liberal, perception Tories dislike young people.
It is middle aged 40 to 50 year olds they need to win back.
The Tories had a 36% lead with over 65s in 2017 though compared to a 24% lead in 2015 and a 17% lead with 55 to 64s in 2017 compared to a 6% lead in 2015.
So Labour still beat the Tories with young people in 2015 and 2017 and the Tories beat Labour with old people in both 2015 and 2017 it was just the margins expanded significantly for both.
I agree some measures need to be taken on affordable housing to win back young people but it is 35 to 44s who are key. In 2015 the Tories tied with 35 to 44s but in 2017 they lost them by 16% (they won 45 to 54s by 3% in both 2015 and 2017).
https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/how-britain-voted-2015
https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/how-britain-voted-2017-election
Re the Tories increasing their lead with older voters. That’s all well and good, but under FPTP that made little difference - the Tories ended up losing seats. By contrast Labour’s increased lead with younger voters led to them gaining seats. So the Tories are going to have to close the gap with more than just those 35-44.0 -
Unfortunately it is only those with small armies that like to believe that.kle4 said:
We don't want to pay for a bigger army. With the amount we waste on fancy equipment, people think we spend too much on what we do have. (No I don't think size of army is the only important thing)TheScreamingEagles said:How come the House of Saud has a bigger army than us?
I still reckon we could take them though. 16 AAB alone.0 -
The issue for the Conservatives is the 35-45 age group.The_Apocalypse said:
The Conservatives won 45+ age groups. They went further backwards with the under 40s at this GE, they need to win members of that group back and recover some lost ground. In 2015 for example Labour only had a 3% lead among those aged 25-34.HYUFD said:
The Tories have not won young people for decades, even Cameron lost under 35s in 2015.The_Apocalypse said:@AndyJS here are some key reasons: inter generational unfairness, socially liberal, perception Tories dislike young people.
It is middle aged 40 to 50 year olds they need to win back.
Since time immemorial the Conservatives have struggled with the under 30s.0 -
"Now I have seen what little Panorama has managed to dredge up from this voluminous cache of stolen data, I am even more certain that my stance was correct."OchEye said:Ashcroft statement on his appearance on Panorama. Oh Dear! Oh Dear!
http://www.lordashcroft.com/2017/11/statement-lord-ashcroft/
What was it he was expecting them to discover that they didn't?0 -
To be clear, I think our army is too small, even if size is not the only thing that matters. But I don't think anyone will take steps to increase it either. Not enough votes in it.DavidL said:
Unfortunately it is only those with small armies that like to believe that.kle4 said:
We don't want to pay for a bigger army. With the amount we waste on fancy equipment, people think we spend too much on what we do have. (No I don't think size of army is the only important thing)TheScreamingEagles said:How come the House of Saud has a bigger army than us?
I still reckon we could take them though. 16 AAB alone.0 -
Makes sense - I'd never voted Tory, then BANG, turned 30 and voted Tory that very year.Casino_Royale said:
The issue for the Conservatives is the 35-45 age group.The_Apocalypse said:
The Conservatives won 45+ age groups. They went further backwards with the under 40s at this GE, they need to win members of that group back and recover some lost ground. In 2015 for example Labour only had a 3% lead among those aged 25-34.HYUFD said:
The Tories have not won young people for decades, even Cameron lost under 35s in 2015.The_Apocalypse said:@AndyJS here are some key reasons: inter generational unfairness, socially liberal, perception Tories dislike young people.
It is middle aged 40 to 50 year olds they need to win back.
Since time immemorial the Conservatives have struggled with the under 30s.0 -
New Foreign Aid scandal? I haven't finished being outraged by the last one yet!TheScreamingEagles said:Gay Dad!
https:/witter.com/AllieHBNews/status/9276546048919756870 -
The average voter these days is about 55 years old which is why the Tories are still able to cling to power despite being unpopular with younger people.0
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That proves it then... also it proves I must still be 29! Yay!kle4 said:
Makes sense - I'd never voted Tory, then BANG, turned 30 and voted Tory that very year.Casino_Royale said:
The issue for the Conservatives is the 35-45 age group.The_Apocalypse said:
The Conservatives won 45+ age groups. They went further backwards with the under 40s at this GE, they need to win members of that group back and recover some lost ground. In 2015 for example Labour only had a 3% lead among those aged 25-34.HYUFD said:
The Tories have not won young people for decades, even Cameron lost under 35s in 2015.The_Apocalypse said:@AndyJS here are some key reasons: inter generational unfairness, socially liberal, perception Tories dislike young people.
It is middle aged 40 to 50 year olds they need to win back.
Since time immemorial the Conservatives have struggled with the under 30s.0 -
While I don't want to see an end to politicians attempting humour, I can see it being unwise as I have no idea if that is a joke or not, given how some like to play to the crowd.The_Apocalypse said:0 -
There’s struggling, and then there’s being behind 62% to 27% (18-24) and 56% to 27% (25-34). The Tories don’t neccessarily need to win those groups, but they do need to reduce that gap.Casino_Royale said:
The issue for the Conservatives is the 35-45 age group.The_Apocalypse said:
The Conservatives won 45+ age groups. They went further backwards with the under 40s at this GE, they need to win members of that group back and recover some lost ground. In 2015 for example Labour only had a 3% lead among those aged 25-34.HYUFD said:
The Tories have not won young people for decades, even Cameron lost under 35s in 2015.The_Apocalypse said:@AndyJS here are some key reasons: inter generational unfairness, socially liberal, perception Tories dislike young people.
It is middle aged 40 to 50 year olds they need to win back.
Since time immemorial the Conservatives have struggled with the under 30s.0 -
This is now, without doubt, the worst government of my lifetime. The disgraceful antics of Johnson and Patel, and the PM’s inability to remove either of them confirm that. And yet, the Tories have every chance of winning the next election. Oh, Jeremy Corbyn ...0
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Haven't the Express got a 'house prices soar' exclusive to lead on?kle4 said:
New Foreign Aid scandal? I haven't finished being outraged by the last one yet!TheScreamingEagles said:Gay Dad!
https:/witter.com/AllieHBNews/status/9276546048919756870 -
For the express, foreign aid is a scandal full stop.kle4 said:
New Foreign Aid scandal? I haven't finished being outraged by the last one yet!TheScreamingEagles said:Gay Dad!
https:/witter.com/AllieHBNews/status/9276546048919756870 -
That's not necessarily the implication. It could be that he means he was expecting them to try to imply even more misdeeds from perfectly legitimate matters, and they hadn't even managed much of that.Benpointer said:
"Now I have seen what little Panorama has managed to dredge up from this voluminous cache of stolen data, I am even more certain that my stance was correct."OchEye said:Ashcroft statement on his appearance on Panorama. Oh Dear! Oh Dear!
http://www.lordashcroft.com/2017/11/statement-lord-ashcroft/
What was it he was expecting them to discover that they didn't?0 -
A moment of madness. Best not make it a habit.kle4 said:
Makes sense - I'd never voted Tory, then BANG, turned 30 and voted Tory that very year.Casino_Royale said:
The issue for the Conservatives is the 35-45 age group.The_Apocalypse said:
The Conservatives won 45+ age groups. They went further backwards with the under 40s at this GE, they need to win members of that group back and recover some lost ground. In 2015 for example Labour only had a 3% lead among those aged 25-34.HYUFD said:
The Tories have not won young people for decades, even Cameron lost under 35s in 2015.The_Apocalypse said:@AndyJS here are some key reasons: inter generational unfairness, socially liberal, perception Tories dislike young people.
It is middle aged 40 to 50 year olds they need to win back.
Since time immemorial the Conservatives have struggled with the under 30s.0 -
Remember, for the length of the war, the Germans were adamant Poland had declared war on Germany...Benpointer said:
Isn't it traditional for the country declaring war to er, make the declaration?DanSmith said:0 -
Some few slip the net, but watch out for Tory agents at your 30th birthday who might be seeking to plant subliminal suggestions on you.Benpointer said:
That proves it then... also it proves I must still be 29! Yay!kle4 said:
Makes sense - I'd never voted Tory, then BANG, turned 30 and voted Tory that very year.Casino_Royale said:
The issue for the Conservatives is the 35-45 age group.The_Apocalypse said:
The Conservatives won 45+ age groups. They went further backwards with the under 40s at this GE, they need to win members of that group back and recover some lost ground. In 2015 for example Labour only had a 3% lead among those aged 25-34.HYUFD said:
The Tories have not won young people for decades, even Cameron lost under 35s in 2015.The_Apocalypse said:@AndyJS here are some key reasons: inter generational unfairness, socially liberal, perception Tories dislike young people.
It is middle aged 40 to 50 year olds they need to win back.
Since time immemorial the Conservatives have struggled with the under 30s.0 -
Except they are not 35-40 but 35-44 which when combined with the other key 45 to 54 group represents the middle aged voting bracket.The_Apocalypse said:
Those who are 35-40 are referred to now as ‘young people’ (in electoral terms) as I said in my earlier post.HYUFD said:
Labour had a 3% lead amongst 25-34s in 2015 and a 29% lead in 2017 and a 16% lead amongst 18-24s in 2015 compared to a 35% lead in 2017.The_Apocalypse said:
The Conservatives won 45+ age groups. They went further backwards with the under 40s at this GE, they need to win members of that group back and recover some lost ground. In 2015 for example Labour only had a 3% lead among those aged 25-34.HYUFD said:
The Tories have not won young people for decades, even Cameron lost under 35s in 2015.The_Apocalypse said:@AndyJS here are some key reasons: inter generational unfairness, socially liberal, perception Tories dislike young people.
It is middle aged 40 to 50 year olds they need to win back.
The Tories had a 36% lead with over 65s in 2017 though compared to a 24% lead in 2015 and a 17% lead with 55 to 64s in 2017 compared to a 6% lead in 2015.
So Labour still beat the Tories with young people in 2015 and 2017 and the Tories beat Labour with old people in both 2015 and 2017 it was just the margins expanded significantly for both.
I agree some measures need to be taken on affordable housing to win back young people but it is 35 to 44s who are key. In 2015 the Tories tied with 35 to 44s but in 2017 they lost them by 16% (they won 45 to 54s by 3% in both 2015 and 2017).
https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/how-britain-voted-2015
https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/how-britain-voted-2017-election
Re the Tories increasing their lead with older voters. That’s all well and good, but under FPTP that made little difference - the Tories ended up losing seats. By contrast Labour’s increased lead with younger voters led to them gaining seats. So the Tories are going to have to close the gap with more than just those 35-44.
The Tories were just 8 seats from a majority, so 35 to 44s could eliminate that.
0 -
Well they're not encouraging it at present, although like many it's a sorry old shower to select from, and not many even seem to want the votes of people with eclectic views - the pure are the key, if nabbed up, they'll stick with you for life, even if you transform later.Jonathan said:
A moment of madness. Best not make it a habit.kle4 said:
Makes sense - I'd never voted Tory, then BANG, turned 30 and voted Tory that very year.Casino_Royale said:
The issue for the Conservatives is the 35-45 age group.The_Apocalypse said:
The Conservatives won 45+ age groups. They went further backwards with the under 40s at this GE, they need to win members of that group back and recover some lost ground. In 2015 for example Labour only had a 3% lead among those aged 25-34.HYUFD said:
The Tories have not won young people for decades, even Cameron lost under 35s in 2015.The_Apocalypse said:@AndyJS here are some key reasons: inter generational unfairness, socially liberal, perception Tories dislike young people.
It is middle aged 40 to 50 year olds they need to win back.
Since time immemorial the Conservatives have struggled with the under 30s.0 -
Going to get worse before it gets better.SouthamObserver said:This is now, without doubt, the worst government of my lifetime. The disgraceful antics of Johnson and Patel, and the PM’s inability to remove either of them confirm that. And yet, the Tories have every chance of winning the next election. Oh, Jeremy Corbyn ...
0 -
That’s how MORI defines it, but my point is that part of that age group are now seen as ‘younger voters.’ If you want to believe that appealing only to 35-44s out of the younger age group will deliver a majority, you can. Just like Tories believed that winning the WWC vote and the Baby Boomers would lead to a significant majority....HYUFD said:
Except they are not 35-40 but 35-44 which when combined with the other key 45 to 54 group represents the middle aged voting bracket.The_Apocalypse said:
Those who are 35-40 are referred to now as ‘young people’ (in electoral terms) as I said in my earlier post.HYUFD said:
Labour had a 3% lead amongst 25-34s in 2015 and a 29% lead in 2017 and a 16% lead amongst 18-24s in 2015 compared to a 35% lead in 2017.The_Apocalypse said:
The Conservatives won 45+ age groups. They went further backwards with the under 40s at this GE, they need to win members of that group back and recover some lost ground. In 2015 for example Labour only had a 3% lead among those aged 25-34.HYUFD said:
The Tories have not won young people for decades, even Cameron lost under 35s in 2015.The_Apocalypse said:@AndyJS here are some key reasons: inter generational unfairness, socially liberal, perception Tories dislike young people.
It is middle aged 40 to 50 year olds they need to win back.
The Tories had a 36% lead with over 65s in 2017 though compared to a 24% lead in 2015 and a 17% lead with 55 to 64s in 2017 compared to a 6% lead in 2015.
So Labour still beat the Tories with young people in 2015 and 2017 and the Tories beat Labour with old people in both 2015 and 2017 it was just the margins expanded significantly for both.
I agree some measures need to be taken on affordable housing to win back young people but it is 35 to 44s who are key. In 2015 the Tories tied with 35 to 44s but in 2017 they lost them by 16% (they won 45 to 54s by 3% in both 2015 and 2017).
https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/how-britain-voted-2015
https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/how-britain-voted-2017-election
Re the Tories increasing their lead with older voters. That’s all well and good, but under FPTP that made little difference - the Tories ended up losing seats. By contrast Labour’s increased lead with younger voters led to them gaining seats. So the Tories are going to have to close the gap with more than just those 35-44.
The Tories were just 8 seats from a majority, so 35 to 44s could eliminate that.
0 -
Well at least you included the latter part of the phrase, otherwise I'd be worried.Jonathan said:
Going to get worse before it gets better.SouthamObserver said:This is now, without doubt, the worst government of my lifetime. The disgraceful antics of Johnson and Patel, and the PM’s inability to remove either of them confirm that. And yet, the Tories have every chance of winning the next election. Oh, Jeremy Corbyn ...
0 -
Our army is indeed small - theoretical strength is 82,000 but in reality it is smaller than that because it is struggling to recruit. In fact it is now smaller than it has been at any time since the early 19th century. Since 2010 it has gone down by about 20,000.kle4 said:
To be clear, I think our army is too small, even if size is not the only thing that matters. But I don't think anyone will take steps to increase it either. Not enough votes in it.DavidL said:
Unfortunately it is only those with small armies that like to believe that.kle4 said:
We don't want to pay for a bigger army. With the amount we waste on fancy equipment, people think we spend too much on what we do have. (No I don't think size of army is the only important thing)TheScreamingEagles said:How come the House of Saud has a bigger army than us?
I still reckon we could take them though. 16 AAB alone.0 -
Conservatism is the most depressiing philosophy. They are the people who look at the moon and say nah. Whats the point of living your life like that. Dont grow old.kle4 said:
Well they're not encouraging it at present, although like many it's a sorry old shower to select from, and not many even seem to want the votes of people with eclectic views - the pure are the key, if nabbed up, they'll stick with you for life, even if you transform later.Jonathan said:
A moment of madness. Best not make it a habit.kle4 said:
Makes sense - I'd never voted Tory, then BANG, turned 30 and voted Tory that very year.Casino_Royale said:
The issue for the Conservatives is the 35-45 age group.The_Apocalypse said:
The Conservatives won 45+ age groups. They went further backwards with the under 40s at this GE, they need to win members of that group back and recover some lost ground. In 2015 for example Labour only had a 3% lead among those aged 25-34.HYUFD said:
The Tories have not won young people for decades, even Cameron lost under 35s in 2015.The_Apocalypse said:@AndyJS here are some key reasons: inter generational unfairness, socially liberal, perception Tories dislike young people.
It is middle aged 40 to 50 year olds they need to win back.
Since time immemorial the Conservatives have struggled with the under 30s.0 -
Didn't they once have a headline that said "Fog in channel - continent cut off" or is that apocryphal?Benpointer said:
Haven't the Express got a 'house prices soar' exclusive to lead on?kle4 said:
New Foreign Aid scandal? I haven't finished being outraged by the last one yet!TheScreamingEagles said:Gay Dad!
https:/witter.com/AllieHBNews/status/9276546048919756870 -
Worse? How could it possibly be worse? Jehovah! Jehovah!Jonathan said:
Going to get worse before it gets better.SouthamObserver said:This is now, without doubt, the worst government of my lifetime. The disgraceful antics of Johnson and Patel, and the PM’s inability to remove either of them confirm that. And yet, the Tories have every chance of winning the next election. Oh, Jeremy Corbyn ...
0 -
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I'll defend that one (if it happened)- even ignoring that the word continent is itself ill defined, 'the continent' as a synonym for the continental mainland is not that unreasonable a phrase.Tim_B said:
Didn't they once have a headline that said "Fog in channel - continent cut off" or is that apocryphal?Benpointer said:
Haven't the Express got a 'house prices soar' exclusive to lead on?kle4 said:
New Foreign Aid scandal? I haven't finished being outraged by the last one yet!TheScreamingEagles said:Gay Dad!
https:/witter.com/AllieHBNews/status/9276546048919756870 -
Brexit is a little like a stoning.RochdalePioneers said:
Worse? How could it possibly be worse? Jehovah! Jehovah!Jonathan said:
Going to get worse before it gets better.SouthamObserver said:This is now, without doubt, the worst government of my lifetime. The disgraceful antics of Johnson and Patel, and the PM’s inability to remove either of them confirm that. And yet, the Tories have every chance of winning the next election. Oh, Jeremy Corbyn ...
0 -
There are things that would cause a resignation which they could not then complain about, but those would be very extreme events, so yeah, May cannot risk a big name causing trouble when they leave.Scott_P said:0
