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Says who and with what evidence? If that were the case then hold a centrally-authorised referendum to show so.felix said:0 -
All the recent polling gives a majority against separation.Philip_Thompson said:
Says who and with what evidence? If that were the case then hold a centrally-authorised referendum to show so.felix said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalan_independence = see the table at the end.
The w/e referendum was illegal. Maybe you should write to the Spanish government telling them what to do. I'm sure they'd be all ears.0 -
Catalonia has almost no violent nationalist tradition, so they probably feel it will be acceptable. They could offer some concessions to non-Catalan residents (eg Spanish-medium education), but that would stir things up even more.Cyclefree said:
I imagine it will be a steady as she goes policy, with another election in 6 months.
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Commiserations from a former rival for the Maidenhead seat
I should point out that a muffled voice is not always a barrier to success. #cpc17 #TheresaMay
— Lord Buckethead (@LordBuckethead) October 4, 20170 -
There wasn't a majority in South Carolina for secession in 1861 either. Or in Ireland in 1916. Sometimes a minority that seizes a propitious moment can get away with things like this.felix said:
All the polling evidence is that there is not a majority in Catalonia for UDI.MTimT said:I am genuinely intrigued by Rajoy's and the King's position on Catalonia. I presume they are both smart enough to understand that:
1. democracy and self-determination are very much flip sides of the same coin. The difference is simply a matter of scale.
2. democracy without some form of protection of minorities is not democracy but tyranny of the masses
3. regardless of constitutional law, preventing legitimate, non-violent expression of popular feelings, particularly when it represents a plurality or a majority of feeling within a particular well-defined geographical and cultural region, creates a pressure-cooker build up of steam which, unless carefully let off, inevitably will lead to violent explosion at some future point
4. masked armoured men dressed all in black hitting women, children and the elderly with rubber batons, pulling them by the hair and kicking them, while not in the class of violence of really nasty authoritarian regimes, simply cannot play in Western society.
I understand that they may believe that the stakes are high enough and the chance of beating the separatists into submission good enough that they think this approach is winnable.
But is that who they truly want to be? Do they truly believe that democracy can only mean upholding, by force if necessary, a Constitution that expressly prohibits some forms of democratic expression that would otherwise seem perfectly legitimate?
Or are thus just simply cynical and incompetent politicians?
Genuine question, asked from a position of both ignorance of and indifference to the Catalonia/Spain issue.
And yes I think civil war in Spain is a realistic possibility we should consider.0 -
There may be elections earlier but overall you are probably correct.RoyalBlue said:
Catalonia has almost no violent nationalist tradition, so they probably feel it will be acceptable. They could offer some concessions to non-Catalan residents (eg Spanish-medium education), but that would stir things up even more.Cyclefree said:
I imagine it will be a steady as she goes policy, with another election in 6 months.0 -
There is a statement from Puigdemont but BBC report is still at the headline stage. Some translated tweets imply some sort of call for mediation.0
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Both governments are acting to inflame the situation.felix said:
All the recent polling gives a majority against separation.Philip_Thompson said:
Says who and with what evidence? If that were the case then hold a centrally-authorised referendum to show so.felix said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalan_independence = see the table at the end.
The w/e referendum was illegal. Maybe you should write to the Spanish government telling them what to do. I'm sure they'd be all ears.0 -
A logical decision by the Catalan government. They want people to hate the Spanish government.Sean_F said:
Both governments are acting to inflame the situation.felix said:
All the recent polling gives a majority against separation.Philip_Thompson said:
Says who and with what evidence? If that were the case then hold a centrally-authorised referendum to show so.felix said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalan_independence = see the table at the end.
The w/e referendum was illegal. Maybe you should write to the Spanish government telling them what to do. I'm sure they'd be all ears.
As for Rajoy, he can thank Theresa May for the fact that so far his actions have not been the greatest unforced error in politics since Chamberlain declared 'peace in our time.'0 -
I think it would be pretty obvious that the thing was falling apart to anyone there, also the people fixing it up between speakers.Benpointer said:Before:
After:Benpointer said:Is it me, or is that wording on the wall behind speakers at the Tory conference wonky?
Oops:
For what it's worth, if May falls, I am going to claim my small part in her downfall...
After my post about the wonky Tory conference sign, someone obviously took notice and aligned things up properly. Unfortunately, they came up against a fundamental law of nature: blu-tack only sticks reliably the first time.
Someone is in trouble.-1 -
It's not what they should do. Let's face it, this isn't an easy situation for them.felix said:
All the recent polling gives a majority against separation.Philip_Thompson said:
Says who and with what evidence? If that were the case then hold a centrally-authorised referendum to show so.felix said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalan_independence = see the table at the end.
The w/e referendum was illegal. Maybe you should write to the Spanish government telling them what to do. I'm sure they'd be all ears.
However, there are some things they should definitely not do, and setting riot police on a bunch of elderly ladies is among them.0 -
The table at the end being the table that ends in 2013?felix said:
All the recent polling gives a majority against separation.Philip_Thompson said:
Says who and with what evidence? If that were the case then hold a centrally-authorised referendum to show so.felix said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalan_independence = see the table at the end.
The w/e referendum was illegal. Maybe you should write to the Spanish government telling them what to do. I'm sure they'd be all ears.
Try looking at the more recent polls.0 -
The potential loss of Catalonia would be far more catastrophic than the loss of 13 seats.ydoethur said:
A logical decision by the Catalan government. They want people to hate the Spanish government.Sean_F said:
Both governments are acting to inflame the situation.felix said:
All the recent polling gives a majority against separation.Philip_Thompson said:
Says who and with what evidence? If that were the case then hold a centrally-authorised referendum to show so.felix said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalan_independence = see the table at the end.
The w/e referendum was illegal. Maybe you should write to the Spanish government telling them what to do. I'm sure they'd be all ears.
As for Rajoy, he can thank Theresa May for the fact that so far his actions have not been the greatest unforced error in politics since Chamberlain declared 'peace in our time.'0 -
5 seconds with a caulk gun and some No More Nails, and it would have been fixed. Utterly shambolic. They then expect us to accept it when they say only they can run the country.nielh said:
I think it would be pretty obvious that the thing was falling apart to anyone there, also the people fixing it up between speakers.Benpointer said:Before:
After:Benpointer said:Is it me, or is that wording on the wall behind speakers at the Tory conference wonky?
Oops:
For what it's worth, if May falls, I am going to claim my small part in her downfall...
After my post about the wonky Tory conference sign, someone obviously took notice and aligned things up properly. Unfortunately, they came up against a fundamental law of nature: blu-tack only sticks reliably the first time.
Someone is in trouble.0 -
However, at least Rajoy had the law on his side.Sean_F said:
The potential loss of Catalonia would be far more catastrophic than the loss of 13 seats.ydoethur said:
A logical decision by the Catalan government. They want people to hate the Spanish government.Sean_F said:
Both governments are acting to inflame the situation.felix said:
All the recent polling gives a majority against separation.Philip_Thompson said:
Says who and with what evidence? If that were the case then hold a centrally-authorised referendum to show so.felix said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalan_independence = see the table at the end.
The w/e referendum was illegal. Maybe you should write to the Spanish government telling them what to do. I'm sure they'd be all ears.
As for Rajoy, he can thank Theresa May for the fact that so far his actions have not been the greatest unforced error in politics since Chamberlain declared 'peace in our time.'
Moreover, he wasn't up against Corbyn. A net loss of one seat to Corbyn is a disaster.0 -
So hands up anybody who had a worse day than Kim Jong May?0
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Then Madrid should hold a legal referendum. What are they afraid of? Losing?felix said:
All the recent polling gives a majority against separation.Philip_Thompson said:
Says who and with what evidence? If that were the case then hold a centrally-authorised referendum to show so.felix said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalan_independence = see the table at the end.
The w/e referendum was illegal. Maybe you should write to the Spanish government telling them what to do. I'm sure they'd be all ears.0 -
Spain already lost Catalonia once - to Napoleon c.1810.Sean_F said:
The potential loss of Catalonia would be far more catastrophic than the loss of 13 seats.ydoethur said:
A logical decision by the Catalan government. They want people to hate the Spanish government.Sean_F said:
Both governments are acting to inflame the situation.felix said:
All the recent polling gives a majority against separation.Philip_Thompson said:
Says who and with what evidence? If that were the case then hold a centrally-authorised referendum to show so.felix said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalan_independence = see the table at the end.
The w/e referendum was illegal. Maybe you should write to the Spanish government telling them what to do. I'm sure they'd be all ears.
As for Rajoy, he can thank Theresa May for the fact that so far his actions have not been the greatest unforced error in politics since Chamberlain declared 'peace in our time.'0 -
Now is not the time !Sunil_Prasannan said:
Then Madrid should hold a legal referendum. What are they afraid of? Losing?felix said:
All the recent polling gives a majority against separation.Philip_Thompson said:
Says who and with what evidence? If that were the case then hold a centrally-authorised referendum to show so.felix said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalan_independence = see the table at the end.
The w/e referendum was illegal. Maybe you should write to the Spanish government telling them what to do. I'm sure they'd be all ears.0 -
The prison officer who has to wipe Abu Hamza’s arse?FrancisUrquhart said:So hands up anybody who had a worse day than Kim Jong May?
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The law said that old ladies should be dragged by their hair by armed riot Police for trying to vote?ydoethur said:
However, at least Rajoy had the law on his side.Sean_F said:
The potential loss of Catalonia would be far more catastrophic than the loss of 13 seats.ydoethur said:
A logical decision by the Catalan government. They want people to hate the Spanish government.Sean_F said:
Both governments are acting to inflame the situation.felix said:
All the recent polling gives a majority against separation.Philip_Thompson said:
Says who and with what evidence? If that were the case then hold a centrally-authorised referendum to show so.felix said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalan_independence = see the table at the end.
The w/e referendum was illegal. Maybe you should write to the Spanish government telling them what to do. I'm sure they'd be all ears.
As for Rajoy, he can thank Theresa May for the fact that so far his actions have not been the greatest unforced error in politics since Chamberlain declared 'peace in our time.'
Moreover, he wasn't up against Corbyn. A net loss of one seat to Corbyn is a disaster.0 -
The survivors of the Las Vegas massacreFrancisUrquhart said:So hands up anybody who had a worse day than Kim Jong May?
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Talk about drawing the short straw.TheScreamingEagles said:
The prison officer who has to wipe Abu Hamza’s arse?FrancisUrquhart said:So hands up anybody who had a worse day than Kim Jong May?
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Well, the law said the vote should not go ahead. But then to quote the otherwise less than able Mr Bumble: 'the law is a ass - a idiot, and the worst I could hope for the law is this sir - that its eyes may be opened by experience.'Philip_Thompson said:
The law said that old ladies should be dragged by their hair by armed riot Police for trying to vote?ydoethur said:
However, at least Rajoy had the law on his side.Sean_F said:
The potential loss of Catalonia would be far more catastrophic than the loss of 13 seats.ydoethur said:
A logical decision by the Catalan government. They want people to hate the Spanish government.Sean_F said:
Both governments are acting to inflame the situation.felix said:
All the recent polling gives a majority against separation.Philip_Thompson said:
Says who and with what evidence? If that were the case then hold a centrally-authorised referendum to show so.felix said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalan_independence = see the table at the end.
The w/e referendum was illegal. Maybe you should write to the Spanish government telling them what to do. I'm sure they'd be all ears.
As for Rajoy, he can thank Theresa May for the fact that so far his actions have not been the greatest unforced error in politics since Chamberlain declared 'peace in our time.'
Moreover, he wasn't up against Corbyn. A net loss of one seat to Corbyn is a disaster.
And I am genuinely worried that may be about to happen.0 -
More than once, I think. French protectorate 1640 to 1651. Roussillon has never been recovered.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Spain already lost Catalonia once - to Napoleon c.1810.Sean_F said:
The potential loss of Catalonia would be far more catastrophic than the loss of 13 seats.ydoethur said:
A logical decision by the Catalan government. They want people to hate the Spanish government.Sean_F said:
Both governments are acting to inflame the situation.felix said:
All the recent polling gives a majority against separation.Philip_Thompson said:
Says who and with what evidence? If that were the case then hold a centrally-authorised referendum to show so.felix said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalan_independence = see the table at the end.
The w/e referendum was illegal. Maybe you should write to the Spanish government telling them what to do. I'm sure they'd be all ears.
As for Rajoy, he can thank Theresa May for the fact that so far his actions have not been the greatest unforced error in politics since Chamberlain declared 'peace in our time.'0 -
One for our Spanish experts, what has happened to Basque nationalism, that, via ETA, used to be the one to worry about?0
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1962. Hugh Gaitskill. Joining the EEC "would be the end of 1,000 years of history".Sunil_Prasannan said:
Nope, it started with Benn in the 1970s.Jonathan said:
They were much cleverer than both Cameron and May. Anyway Euroscepticism started with Major and Maastricht.TheScreamingEagles said:
The issue of our relationship with the EU was coming, it just happened on Cameron's watch.Jonathan said:
Cameron winning a majority by massacring his coalition partner and promising a referendum damaged the Tory party.TheScreamingEagles said:
I reckon TPD winning his seat in 2015 would have caused less damage for the Tory party than Mrs May did today.Jonathan said:
Surely that's crossing the line.TheScreamingEagles said:
I spent most of today wishing Theresa May had lost her seat in 2015 instead of Mark Reckless.Scrapheap_as_was said:Been out all day. Missed much?
Just imagine a nice minority with C&S from nice Mr Clegg facing the even nicer Mr Milliband.
This could have all been avoided if Blair and Brown had delivered on their promise of a referendum on Lisbon.
http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/classic-podium-the-end-of-1000-years-of-history-1190761.html0 -
Saying the vote should not go ahead is one thing.ydoethur said:
Well, the law said the vote should not go ahead. But then to quote the otherwise less than able Mr Bumble: 'the law is a ass - a idiot, and the worst I could hope for the law is this sir - that its eyes may be opened by experience.'Philip_Thompson said:
The law said that old ladies should be dragged by their hair by armed riot Police for trying to vote?ydoethur said:
However, at least Rajoy had the law on his side.Sean_F said:
The potential loss of Catalonia would be far more catastrophic than the loss of 13 seats.ydoethur said:
A logical decision by the Catalan government. They want people to hate the Spanish government.Sean_F said:
Both governments are acting to inflame the situation.felix said:
All the recent polling gives a majority against separation.Philip_Thompson said:
Says who and with what evidence? If that were the case then hold a centrally-authorised referendum to show so.felix said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalan_independence = see the table at the end.
The w/e referendum was illegal. Maybe you should write to the Spanish government telling them what to do. I'm sure they'd be all ears.
As for Rajoy, he can thank Theresa May for the fact that so far his actions have not been the greatest unforced error in politics since Chamberlain declared 'peace in our time.'
Moreover, he wasn't up against Corbyn. A net loss of one seat to Corbyn is a disaster.
And I am genuinely worried that may be about to happen.
One answer is to ignore it, call for a boycott by your own side then dismiss the outcome as illegal and point to the low turnout (caused by the boycott).
A good answer is not to beat up elderly voters, drag women by their hair and shoot rubber bullets at people. The law didn't demand any of that.0 -
"That poor woman. That poor, poor woman. No matter how many black cats her chauffeur ran over on the journey to the conference centre, she did not deserve anything like this. No one deserves anything like this. Short of accidentally knocking over her lectern, and watching it topple on to an Army veteran in the front row, there is no way, simply no way at all, in which the Prime Minister’s speech could have gone any more wrong.
And none of it was her fault. If anything, that made it all the more painful."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/04/dear-god-will-reliving-agony-theresa-may-speech-rest-days/0 -
I was trying to keep it light....but you are right.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The survivors of the Las Vegas massacreFrancisUrquhart said:So hands up anybody who had a worse day than Kim Jong May?
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There was at least one private poll commissioned by a hedge fund earlier this year, which showed that only a very small proportion of Catalonians wanted a UDI - something like 15%. There were another 25% who felt Catalonia should legally seek independence. And then about 10% who though that Catalonia should use a referendum to gain more powers from the Spanish state.Philip_Thompson said:
The table at the end being the table that ends in 2013?felix said:
All the recent polling gives a majority against separation.Philip_Thompson said:
Says who and with what evidence? If that were the case then hold a centrally-authorised referendum to show so.felix said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalan_independence = see the table at the end.
The w/e referendum was illegal. Maybe you should write to the Spanish government telling them what to do. I'm sure they'd be all ears.
Try looking at the more recent polls.
What was amazing, though, was that there was something like 40% of the Catalonian population that was vehemently opposed to independence in any form.0 -
Yes, I agree. That's why I said it was an error. A stupid, grotesque unnecessary and totally counterproductive error that may tear Spain apart.Philip_Thompson said:Saying the vote should not go ahead is one thing.
One answer is to ignore it, call for a boycott by your own side then dismiss the outcome as illegal and point to the low turnout (caused by the boycott).
A good answer is not to beat up elderly voters, drag women by their hair and shoot rubber bullets at people. The law didn't demand any of that.
However, the narrow point that it was under the circumstances slightly less of an unforced error than calling an unneeded general election and blowing a huge lead in the polls over a tenth rate nutcase like Corbyn. While it may be worse overall, it wasn't totally unforced.0 -
Isn't it the "actual" rather than the "potential" loss.Sean_F said:
The potential loss of Catalonia would be far more catastrophic than the loss of 13 seats.ydoethur said:
A logical decision by the Catalan government. They want people to hate the Spanish government.Sean_F said:
Both governments are acting to inflame the situation.felix said:
All the recent polling gives a majority against separation.Philip_Thompson said:
Says who and with what evidence? If that were the case then hold a centrally-authorised referendum to show so.felix said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalan_independence = see the table at the end.
The w/e referendum was illegal. Maybe you should write to the Spanish government telling them what to do. I'm sure they'd be all ears.
As for Rajoy, he can thank Theresa May for the fact that so far his actions have not been the greatest unforced error in politics since Chamberlain declared 'peace in our time.'0 -
THE CONSERVATIVE AND UNIONIST PARTY OF GREAT BRITAIN:
https://www.reuters.com/news/picture/theresa-may-interrupted-by-coughing-fit-idUSRTS1F34Z/12041245860 -
Tories don't pay workers well. You pay peanuts, you get ..........nielh said:
I think it would be pretty obvious that the thing was falling apart to anyone there, also the people fixing it up between speakers.Benpointer said:Before:
After:Benpointer said:Is it me, or is that wording on the wall behind speakers at the Tory conference wonky?
Oops:
For what it's worth, if May falls, I am going to claim my small part in her downfall...
After my post about the wonky Tory conference sign, someone obviously took notice and aligned things up properly. Unfortunately, they came up against a fundamental law of nature: blu-tack only sticks reliably the first time.
Someone is in trouble.0 -
This is complete and utter bollocks.calum said:
Aides blamed her loss of voice on themselves, for having put them PM through 28 different TV interviews and 19 receptions during the previous four days.
That's the sort of schedule a PM/Major Party leader is expected to do during conference season.0 -
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Are you sure May blew a huge lead in the polls? I doubt it was real in the first placeydoethur said:
Yes, I agree. That's why I said it was an error. A stupid, grotesque unnecessary and totally counterproductive error that may tear Spain apart.Philip_Thompson said:Saying the vote should not go ahead is one thing.
One answer is to ignore it, call for a boycott by your own side then dismiss the outcome as illegal and point to the low turnout (caused by the boycott).
A good answer is not to beat up elderly voters, drag women by their hair and shoot rubber bullets at people. The law didn't demand any of that.
However, the narrow point that it was under the circumstances slightly less of an unforced error than calling an unneeded general election and blowing a huge lead in the polls over a tenth rate nutcase like Corbyn. While it may be worse overall, it wasn't totally unforced.0 -
I'm calling it a night, I don't think I'm going to be able to cope with the front pages.0
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Local election results suggest otherwise. As does the Copeland by-election and indeed the Stoke one.Charles said:
Are you sure May blew a huge lead in the polls? I doubt it was real in the first placeydoethur said:
Yes, I agree. That's why I said it was an error. A stupid, grotesque unnecessary and totally counterproductive error that may tear Spain apart.Philip_Thompson said:Saying the vote should not go ahead is one thing.
One answer is to ignore it, call for a boycott by your own side then dismiss the outcome as illegal and point to the low turnout (caused by the boycott).
A good answer is not to beat up elderly voters, drag women by their hair and shoot rubber bullets at people. The law didn't demand any of that.
However, the narrow point that it was under the circumstances slightly less of an unforced error than calling an unneeded general election and blowing a huge lead in the polls over a tenth rate nutcase like Corbyn. While it may be worse overall, it wasn't totally unforced.
It was perhaps not the 20 points sometimes claimed but it was clearly big enough for a very comfortable win until the manifesto launch.0 -
Never heard it called that before Mr Eagles!TheScreamingEagles said:I'm calling it a night, I don't think I'm going to be able to cope with the front pages.
But if you're off, I can be off too. Good night everyone.0 -
It was overstated, but probably 10-15%.Charles said:
Are you sure May blew a huge lead in the polls? I doubt it was real in the first placeydoethur said:
Yes, I agree. That's why I said it was an error. A stupid, grotesque unnecessary and totally counterproductive error that may tear Spain apart.Philip_Thompson said:Saying the vote should not go ahead is one thing.
One answer is to ignore it, call for a boycott by your own side then dismiss the outcome as illegal and point to the low turnout (caused by the boycott).
A good answer is not to beat up elderly voters, drag women by their hair and shoot rubber bullets at people. The law didn't demand any of that.
However, the narrow point that it was under the circumstances slightly less of an unforced error than calling an unneeded general election and blowing a huge lead in the polls over a tenth rate nutcase like Corbyn. While it may be worse overall, it wasn't totally unforced.0 -
The local election results suggest that there was some substance to it.Charles said:
Are you sure May blew a huge lead in the polls? I doubt it was real in the first placeydoethur said:
Yes, I agree. That's why I said it was an error. A stupid, grotesque unnecessary and totally counterproductive error that may tear Spain apart.Philip_Thompson said:Saying the vote should not go ahead is one thing.
One answer is to ignore it, call for a boycott by your own side then dismiss the outcome as illegal and point to the low turnout (caused by the boycott).
A good answer is not to beat up elderly voters, drag women by their hair and shoot rubber bullets at people. The law didn't demand any of that.
However, the narrow point that it was under the circumstances slightly less of an unforced error than calling an unneeded general election and blowing a huge lead in the polls over a tenth rate nutcase like Corbyn. While it may be worse overall, it wasn't totally unforced.0 -
I am pretty certain, more than before, that a new party will emerge.
Labour are in a mess. I just came across the blog below, which is an entirely believable account of a labour conference delegate. The party have been taken over by Momentum, centrists are fleeing the scene, and the delusion has taken hold of the members that following the 2017 election they are on the pulse of what the nation think and therefore the best judges of the parties policies:
"We note that this is just the beginning of the final battle. Our advances have given membership a slender majority in the places where it counts, and we saw the horror in the faces of the Holdfasts as they realised how near they are being dragged to a situation where the clued up membership are truly in charge. Just think – membership might vote for anything. Palestine is back on the agenda, as is electoral reform, nationalisation of the services we rely on, NHS re-enstatement, fracking and universal credit. It’ll be Trident next. Yes, it will. Democracy is scary stuff, isn’t it."
https://kaygreen.blog/2017/10/01/for-the-membership-not-a-few-toms-and-iains/
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How bad can they be...TheScreamingEagles said:I'm calling it a night, I don't think I'm going to be able to cope with the front pages.
0 -
Were Alan sugars new batch of apprentices responsible for organizing the Tory party conference?0
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Tory seats 2017: 316, minoritySunil_Prasannan said:
Tory vote 2017 = 13,669,883TheScreamingEagles said:
1) It was honour, he said if you lose a nation changing referendum like that, you should quitTwistedFireStopper said:@ TSE
Clearly, yer man Cameron is the one to blame for the state of your party, and the Nation. Rightly or wrongly, he instigated the Referendum and then threw the towel in as soon as he could, despite his words that he'd stay on for a bit. If he'd hung around, maybe yer other man Osborne might have been in with a chance? Mind you, I can't blame him. He's got a hot wife, loads of money and a lifestyle not many of us will ever have. Why would he hang around to sort the mess out?
Edit-FIRST!
2) He realised he would have been seen as the wrong man to sort out the Brexit deal
3) If he has decided to stay on, the Leadbangers would have tried to force him out, so it wasn't up to him, which would have impacted on 2)
Tory vote 2015 = 11,334,226
Tory seats 2015: 331, majority
(The national vote tally is deliberately disconnected from, and disproportionate from, the representation won. A system very strongly backed by Tories, as I understand it - so citing a voting figure is just, well, sort of an interesting factoid in the background of the reality that the result was both quantitatively (fewer seats) and qualitatively (no majority) significantly worse.0 -
Wait til JRM PM next year.Scott_P said:
How bad can they be...TheScreamingEagles said:I'm calling it a night, I don't think I'm going to be able to cope with the front pages.
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Her mistake was to believe it was real. Hubris. Now we're getting nemesis. It is painful to watch.Charles said:
Are you sure May blew a huge lead in the polls? I doubt it was real in the first placeydoethur said:
Yes, I agree. That's why I said it was an error. A stupid, grotesque unnecessary and totally counterproductive error that may tear Spain apart.Philip_Thompson said:Saying the vote should not go ahead is one thing.
One answer is to ignore it, call for a boycott by your own side then dismiss the outcome as illegal and point to the low turnout (caused by the boycott).
A good answer is not to beat up elderly voters, drag women by their hair and shoot rubber bullets at people. The law didn't demand any of that.
However, the narrow point that it was under the circumstances slightly less of an unforced error than calling an unneeded general election and blowing a huge lead in the polls over a tenth rate nutcase like Corbyn. While it may be worse overall, it wasn't totally unforced.
Philip May needs to save his wife from this. She's tried her best. She has some achievements to her name - I listed them out earlier. But she took on a hospital pass when she went for PM last June and has played the poor hand she was given very badly.
It may be hard for her to admit that she is not up to it and/or that implementing Brexit with her current Cabinet is like herding black cats in the dark. But those who love her need to speak some hard truths to her.
It's not doing the country any good at all to have such a paralysed government in charge.
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The one that matters is the daily Dacre.Scott_P said:
How bad can they be...TheScreamingEagles said:I'm calling it a night, I don't think I'm going to be able to cope with the front pages.
Will he spare her?0 -
I've excitedly told my Millennial daughter that her fears on housing can now be put to bed. Theresa May will (assuming proportional building) ensure there's about 7 more affordable houses per year in our constituency.foxinsoxuk said:
To be fair it is 5000 homes per year.bigjohnowls said:Lets not forget
Theresa May made 2 policy promises today.
a) Build 5 homes a yr per Local Authority.
b) Resurrect an Energy Cap promise she's failed to keep
https://twitter.com/jeremycorbyn/status/915614310122033152
She looked unimpressed.
"Maybe eight?" I offered.0 -
But would the government be any less paralysed if she left?Cyclefree said:
Her mistake was to believe it was real. Hubris. Now we're getting nemesis. It is painful to watch.Charles said:
Are you sure May blew a huge lead in the polls? I doubt it was real in the first placeydoethur said:
Yes, I agree. That's why I said it was an error. A stupid, grotesque unnecessary and totally counterproductive error that may tear Spain apart.Philip_Thompson said:Saying the vote should not go ahead is one thing.
One answer is to ignore it, call for a boycott by your own side then dismiss the outcome as illegal and point to the low turnout (caused by the boycott).
A good answer is not to beat up elderly voters, drag women by their hair and shoot rubber bullets at people. The law didn't demand any of that.
However, the narrow point that it was under the circumstances slightly less of an unforced error than calling an unneeded general election and blowing a huge lead in the polls over a tenth rate nutcase like Corbyn. While it may be worse overall, it wasn't totally unforced.
Philip May needs to save his wife from this. She's tried her best. She has some achievements to her name - I listed them out earlier. But she took on a hospital pass when she went for PM last June and has played the poor hand she was given very badly.
It may be hard for her to admit that she is not up to it and/or that implementing Brexit with her current Cabinet is like herding black cats in the dark. But those who love her need to speak some hard truths to her.
It's not doing the country any good at all to have such a paralysed government in charge.
They can't agree on what they want!0 -
For heavens sake man, go!0
-
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@somersetlevel: Asked about her son’s prank at #Conservativeconference, Irene Brodkin said ‘Simon has always been a wanker, it’s a pity his father wasn’t.’0
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Rajoy is already strengthening army units in and around Cataloniarcs1000 said:
Isn't it the "actual" rather than the "potential" loss.Sean_F said:
The potential loss of Catalonia would be far more catastrophic than the loss of 13 seats.ydoethur said:
A logical decision by the Catalan government. They want people to hate the Spanish government.Sean_F said:
Both governments are acting to inflame the situation.felix said:
All the recent polling gives a majority against separation.Philip_Thompson said:
Says who and with what evidence? If that were the case then hold a centrally-authorised referendum to show so.felix said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalan_independence = see the table at the end.
The w/e referendum was illegal. Maybe you should write to the Spanish government telling them what to do. I'm sure they'd be all ears.
As for Rajoy, he can thank Theresa May for the fact that so far his actions have not been the greatest unforced error in politics since Chamberlain declared 'peace in our time.'0 -
Yes we know that - OGH and TSE keep telling us!Andy_Cooke said:
Tory seats 2017: 316, minoritySunil_Prasannan said:
Tory vote 2017 = 13,669,883TheScreamingEagles said:
1) It was honour, he said if you lose a nation changing referendum like that, you should quitTwistedFireStopper said:@ TSE
Clearly, yer man Cameron is the one to blame for the state of your party, and the Nation. Rightly or wrongly, he instigated the Referendum and then threw the towel in as soon as he could, despite his words that he'd stay on for a bit. If he'd hung around, maybe yer other man Osborne might have been in with a chance? Mind you, I can't blame him. He's got a hot wife, loads of money and a lifestyle not many of us will ever have. Why would he hang around to sort the mess out?
Edit-FIRST!
2) He realised he would have been seen as the wrong man to sort out the Brexit deal
3) If he has decided to stay on, the Leadbangers would have tried to force him out, so it wasn't up to him, which would have impacted on 2)
Tory vote 2015 = 11,334,226
Tory seats 2015: 331, majority
(The national vote tally is deliberately disconnected from, and disproportionate from, the representation won. A system very strongly backed by Tories, as I understand it - so citing a voting figure is just, well, sort of an interesting factoid in the background of the reality that the result was both quantitatively (fewer seats) and qualitatively (no majority) significantly worse.
Still, more people around the UK voted for Theresa than they did for Dave
0 -
@MattChorley: “A loss. That is diabolical. That is really really diabolical.” #ApprenticeLinesForTheresa0
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The Scottish independence movement became an inspiration for a non violent approach.TheScreamingEagles said:One for our Spanish experts, what has happened to Basque nationalism, that, via ETA, used to be the one to worry about?
0 -
@MattChorley: “I am looking at a load of dead meat.” #ApprenticeLinesForTheresa0
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The lead in the polls was real Charles. How accurately it reflected actual voting intention we don't know but the poll lead was evidently real.Charles said:
Are you sure May blew a huge lead in the polls? I doubt it was real in the first placeydoethur said:
Yes, I agree. That's why I said it was an error. A stupid, grotesque unnecessary and totally counterproductive error that may tear Spain apart.Philip_Thompson said:Saying the vote should not go ahead is one thing.
One answer is to ignore it, call for a boycott by your own side then dismiss the outcome as illegal and point to the low turnout (caused by the boycott).
A good answer is not to beat up elderly voters, drag women by their hair and shoot rubber bullets at people. The law didn't demand any of that.
However, the narrow point that it was under the circumstances slightly less of an unforced error than calling an unneeded general election and blowing a huge lead in the polls over a tenth rate nutcase like Corbyn. While it may be worse overall, it wasn't totally unforced.
(Point of logic)0 -
If Philip believes it is too much for her and she decides to stand down, then I would expect her to continue in Office until Christmas to give the party the time for a proper contest to succeed her
The disappointing thing today is that up to and just after the P45 incident she had spoken well but her cold and cough took over her and even I admit is was difficult to watch
As far as the props were concerned I very much doubt it was the conservative party's fault but a staging contractor.
Anyway let's hope she has a few days rest and see in the cold light of day how this plays out0 -
You have to laugh. ZombieMay has limbs falling off, that's how long she's been left to rot. They have an obvious alternative in the shape of BoJo yet insist the leprotic zombie is better because he's a cad/a better populist than they are.
Without Brexit it wouldn't matter. Those of us not Tories would enjoy the spectacle of a grand old party collapsing into it's own grave and look forward to their imminent end and decade long banishment. But we have Brexit. So it does matter.
The country deserves better than this. Needs better. Demands better. Not installing a Prime Minister to replace this self-destructing political black hole and lead the country through Brexit is choosing to aggressively prioritise petty internal squabbles over the people and the nation.
Which for a Conservative Party is pretty shit. Get it done. Fast.0 -
She certainly pulled a few rabbits out the hat, but not in a good way.Big_G_NorthWales said:If Philip believes it is too much for her and she decides to stand down, then I would expect her to continue in Office until Christmas to give the party the time for a proper contest to succeed her
The disappointing thing today is that up to and just after the P45 incident she had spoken well but her cold and cough took over her and even I admit is was difficult to watch
As far as the props were concerned I very much doubt it was the conservative party's fault but a staging contractor.
Anyway let's hope she has a few days rest and see in the cold light of day how this plays out0 -
Haha, comedy obviously runs in that family.Scott_P said:@somersetlevel: Asked about her son’s prank at #Conservativeconference, Irene Brodkin said ‘Simon has always been a wanker, it’s a pity his father wasn’t.’
0 -
PB at its pedantic best.TOPPING said:
The lead in the polls was real Charles. How accurately it reflected actual voting intention we don't know but the poll lead was evidently real.Charles said:
Are you sure May blew a huge lead in the polls? I doubt it was real in the first placeydoethur said:
Yes, I agree. That's why I said it was an error. A stupid, grotesque unnecessary and totally counterproductive error that may tear Spain apart.Philip_Thompson said:Saying the vote should not go ahead is one thing.
One answer is to ignore it, call for a boycott by your own side then dismiss the outcome as illegal and point to the low turnout (caused by the boycott).
A good answer is not to beat up elderly voters, drag women by their hair and shoot rubber bullets at people. The law didn't demand any of that.
However, the narrow point that it was under the circumstances slightly less of an unforced error than calling an unneeded general election and blowing a huge lead in the polls over a tenth rate nutcase like Corbyn. While it may be worse overall, it wasn't totally unforced.
(Point of logic)0 -
"The poll also asked about TfL declining Uber’s application for a licence renewal. When this was first announced there was a very negative reaction on social media… but of course, that over-represents exactly the sort of people who regularly use Uber. The poll finds that people who regularly use Uber do indeed think it was the wrong decision (by 63% to 27%)… but the majority of Londoners use Uber rarely or never and they approve of the decision. Overall 43% of people think it was right to take away Uber’s licence, 31% think it was wrong. Even among those regular Uber users there’s no obvious sign of a backlash against Khan or Labour. 66% of them still say Khan is doing a good job, 63% say they would vote Labour in an election tomorrow. Personally I’d be extremely surprised if the whole thing didn’t end up with a compromise between TfL and Uber allowing them to renew their licence, but for the moment the polling suggests that the public back Sadiq Khan on the issue."
http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/0 -
This meme that Corbyn 'sabotaged' Remain is just bizarre conspiracy-mongering, on parr with Owen Smith questioning whether Corbyn voted Remain (after doing a dozen rallies, some TV slots, articles etc...).TheScreamingEagles said:
You also seem to forget Foot's manifesto of 1983.Jonathan said:
Er, 'Remain' won that one with 67%. Maastricht is where the rot set in. Curiously, that vote led to the SDP. Wonder what we have in store from the last one.TheScreamingEagles said:
Almost like you forgot which party called the 1975 referendum.Jonathan said:
They were much cleverer than both Cameron and May. Anyway Euroscepticism started with Major and Maastricht.TheScreamingEagles said:
The issue of our relationship with the EU was coming, it just happened on Cameron's watch.Jonathan said:
Cameron winning a majority by massacring his coalition partner and promising a referendum damaged the Tory party.TheScreamingEagles said:
I reckon TPD winning his seat in 2015 would have caused less damage for the Tory party than Mrs May did today.Jonathan said:
Surely that's crossing the line.TheScreamingEagles said:
I spent most of today wishing Theresa May had lost her seat in 2015 instead of Mark Reckless.Scrapheap_as_was said:Been out all day. Missed much?
Just imagine a nice minority with C&S from nice Mr Clegg facing the even nicer Mr Milliband.
This could have all been avoided if Blair and Brown had delivered on their promise of a referendum on Lisbon.
Isn't it odd that the UK only left the EU when Labour had as Leader a eurosceptic who sabotaged the Remain campaign.
65% of Labour voters went Remain, compared with 68% of Lib Dem voters. A substantial amount of people in the 35% will have been the Labour GE voters who went UKIP for the European parliament election in 2014 (https://yougov.co.uk/news/2014/11/17/how-ukips-support-has-grown-and-changed/), hardly Corbyn's fault for them to vote Leave.
Remain was shite. Didn't understand the country. Didn't need sabotaging by anybody but themselves.0 -
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I don't agree about her belief in the polls being hubris; we all believed them, possibly with the reservation that the top 5% might be a bit frothy. The problem was thinking that she could cash the lead into seats without even a token show of humanity or warmth or willingness to please or prospective gratitude for anyone's vote. Ghastly Andrea Leadsom was ghastly, but she was also right: May lacks children, and also lacks the very basic empathy which would in most cases mean that the lack of children was irrelevant. It is an open question whether May's utterly ghastly doorkeepers are equally autistic, or detected and exploited her autism.Cyclefree said:
Her mistake was to believe it was real. Hubris. Now we're getting nemesis. It is painful to watch.Charles said:
Are you sure May blew a huge lead in the polls? I doubt it was real in the first placeydoethur said:
Yes, I agree. That's why I said it was an error. A stupid, grotesque unnecessary and totally counterproductive error that may tear Spain apart.Philip_Thompson said:Saying the vote should not go ahead is one thing.
One answer is to ignore it, call for a boycott by your own side then dismiss the outcome as illegal and point to the low turnout (caused by the boycott).
A good answer is not to beat up elderly voters, drag women by their hair and shoot rubber bullets at people. The law didn't demand any of that.
However, the narrow point that it was under the circumstances slightly less of an unforced error than calling an unneeded general election and blowing a huge lead in the polls over a tenth rate nutcase like Corbyn. While it may be worse overall, it wasn't totally unforced.
Philip May needs to save his wife from this. She's tried her best. She has some achievements to her name - I listed them out earlier. But she took on a hospital pass when she went for PM last June and has played the poor hand she was given very badly.
It may be hard for her to admit that she is not up to it and/or that implementing Brexit with her current Cabinet is like herding black cats in the dark. But those who love her need to speak some hard truths to her.
It's not doing the country any good at all to have such a paralysed government in charge.
I struggle to see how today could have gone worse, short of a replay of the Jimmy Carter rabbit incident.0 -
The rabbits are still there but it is hard not to have sympathy for her -Jonathan said:
She certainly pulled a few rabbits out the hat, but not in a good way.Big_G_NorthWales said:If Philip believes it is too much for her and she decides to stand down, then I would expect her to continue in Office until Christmas to give the party the time for a proper contest to succeed her
The disappointing thing today is that up to and just after the P45 incident she had spoken well but her cold and cough took over her and even I admit is was difficult to watch
As far as the props were concerned I very much doubt it was the conservative party's fault but a staging contractor.
Anyway let's hope she has a few days rest and see in the cold light of day how this plays out
How many of us are saying 'but for the grace of God'0 -
The pb thread montage of front pages a la gordon brown awaits...Scott_P said:
How bad can they be...TheScreamingEagles said:I'm calling it a night, I don't think I'm going to be able to cope with the front pages.
0 -
I have been there (sort of)Big_G_NorthWales said:How many of us are saying 'but for the grace of God'
0 -
May, probably not her successor, needs in the next six weeks or so to sign up to almost every A50 demand made by the EU, to ensure a two year continuity arrangement is included in the final deal this time next year. If the government hadn't been so cack-handed in its dealings, it could have negotiated something but it's out of time. I doubt Mrs May's successor will want a full-blown Brexit crisis and they will want that continuity period. Of course the clock will immediately start clicking on the continuity arrangement, but that's Mrs May's successor's concern (as well as ours).Cyclefree said:Her mistake was to believe it was real. Hubris. Now we're getting nemesis. It is painful to watch.
Philip May needs to save his wife from this. She's tried her best. She has some achievements to her name - I listed them out earlier. But she took on a hospital pass when she went for PM last June and has played the poor hand she was given very badly.
It may be hard for her to admit that she is not up to it and/or that implementing Brexit with her current Cabinet is like herding black cats in the dark. But those who love her need to speak some hard truths to her.
It's not doing the country any good at all to have such a paralysed government in charge.0 -
Betting on her to go this year could be risky in the sense that even if she resigns next week it might take till January to choose new leader. Say:
11 Oct - Resigns
16 Oct - Nominations open
19 Oct - Nominations close
24 Oct - MPs 1st ballot
26 Oct - MPs 2nd ballot
29 Oct - MPs 3rd ballot (if needed)
Even if down to two candidates by 26 Oct, I think members ballot is normally done over approx 8 weeks which would be very close indeed to Christmas.
Maybe they might do it over 6 weeks but even that would be approx 10 December - and that's all based on her going next week.0 -
LOL -- Huw Edwards introducing the report on May's speech. He started by saying "this report contains...."
For a split second I honestly thought he was going to say "...scenes that some viewers may find distressing".
[it was actually "flashing images"]0 -
Looking at the possible replacements, maybe the Tory party should reacquaint themselves with Hilaire Belloc...
And always keep a hold of Nurse
For fear of finding something worse.0 -
Not me, for one.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The rabbits are still there but it is hard not to have sympathy for her -Jonathan said:
She certainly pulled a few rabbits out the hat, but not in a good way.Big_G_NorthWales said:If Philip believes it is too much for her and she decides to stand down, then I would expect her to continue in Office until Christmas to give the party the time for a proper contest to succeed her
The disappointing thing today is that up to and just after the P45 incident she had spoken well but her cold and cough took over her and even I admit is was difficult to watch
As far as the props were concerned I very much doubt it was the conservative party's fault but a staging contractor.
Anyway let's hope she has a few days rest and see in the cold light of day how this plays out
How many of us are saying 'but for the grace of God'
She is Mrs Bean; she has got to the stage that Carter, Major and Brown reached where random hilarious and humiliating accidents just keep on happening, and the commentators dust down the word "beleaguered" just for her.0 -
I'm afraid it did look more like a rabbit caught in headlights to meBig_G_NorthWales said:
The rabbits are still there but it is hard not to have sympathy for her -Jonathan said:
She certainly pulled a few rabbits out the hat, but not in a good way.Big_G_NorthWales said:If Philip believes it is too much for her and she decides to stand down, then I would expect her to continue in Office until Christmas to give the party the time for a proper contest to succeed her
The disappointing thing today is that up to and just after the P45 incident she had spoken well but her cold and cough took over her and even I admit is was difficult to watch
As far as the props were concerned I very much doubt it was the conservative party's fault but a staging contractor.
Anyway let's hope she has a few days rest and see in the cold light of day how this plays out
How many of us are saying 'but for the grace of God'
0 -
Not forgetting Lord Lundy:Benpointer said:Looking at the possible replacements, maybe the Tory party should reacquaint themselves with Hilaire Belloc...
And always keep a hold of Nurse
For fear of finding something worse.
It happened to Lord Lundy then,
As happens to so many men:
Towards the age of twenty-six,
They shoved him into politics;
In which profession he commanded
The Income that his rank demanded
In turn as Secretary for
India, the Colonies, and War.
But very soon his friends began
To doubt is he were quite the man:
Thus if a member rose to say
(As members do from day to day),
"Arising out of that reply . . .!"
Lord Lundy would begin to cry.
A Hint at harmless little jobs
Would shake him with convulsive sobs.
While as for Revelations, these
Would simply bring him to his knees,
And leave him whimpering like a child.
It drove his colleagues raving wild!
They let him sink from Post to Post,
From fifteen hundred at the most
To eight, and barely six--and then
To be Curator of Big Ben!. . .
And finally there came a Threat
To oust him from the Cabinet!
The Duke -- his aged grand-sire -- bore
The shame till he could bear no more.
He rallied his declining powers,
Summoned the youth to Brackley Towers,
And bitterly addressed him thus--
"Sir! you have disappointed us!
We had intended you to be
The next Prime Minister but three:
The stocks were sold; the Press was squared:
The Middle Class was quite prepared.
But as it is! . . . My language fails!
Go out and govern New South Wales!"
The Aged Patriot groaned and died:
And gracious! how Lord Lundy cried!0 -
Haha at least you can switch off - how bad must it have been for the cabinet sat there in the front row!SeanT said:Oh god. Rewatching on News Ten. This is unbearable.
0 -
Copeland led the Conservatives into a false sense of security, I think. Remarkably the government won a byelection off the opposition, who fielded a GP and a personable candidate with a ready-made local hospitals issue to exploit.Ishmael_Z said:
I don't agree about her belief in the polls being hubris; we all believed them, possibly with the reservation that the top 5% might be a bit frothy. The problem was thinking that she could cash the lead into seats without even a token show of humanity or warmth or willingness to please or prospective gratitude for anyone's vote. Ghastly Andrea Leadsom was ghastly, but she was also right: May lacks children, and also lacks the very basic empathy which would in most cases mean that the lack of children was irrelevant. It is an open question whether May's utterly ghastly doorkeepers are equally autistic, or detected and exploited her autism.
I struggle to see how today could have gone worse, short of a replay of the Jimmy Carter rabbit incident.0 -
News at Ten. blimey.
At least IDS is no longer leading the worst speech ever list.0 -
And her more than anybody.Benpointer said:
Haha at least you can switch off - how bad must it have been for the cabinet sat there in the front row!SeanT said:Oh god. Rewatching on News Ten. This is unbearable.
I do think this extraordinary day may change the dynamic of her leadership. We will have to see.
Politics hey0 -
-
https://twitter.com/thesun/status/915685593606246401
"This is what happens when you send the Polish builders home..."0 -
As have I on several important occassionsScott_P said:
I have been there (sort of)Big_G_NorthWales said:How many of us are saying 'but for the grace of God'
0 -
Physicians of the Utmost FameBenpointer said:Looking at the possible replacements, maybe the Tory party should reacquaint themselves with Hilaire Belloc...
And always keep a hold of Nurse
For fear of finding something worse.
Were called at once; but when they came
They answered, as they took their Fees,
``There is no Cure for this Disease."
0 -
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I suspect the problem now is that with things as they stand the only person with a credible chance at replacing her swiftly is Boris Johnson, and call me crazy, they don't seem to be fans of one another, or at least their allies leak enough to make it seem that way. Her demeanour is not that of someone who thinks they can overcome the wounds suffered in June, it's of someone who does not they are not up to it, but desperate to be there long enough to at least deny Boris the prize.Cyclefree said:
It may be hard for her to admit that she is not up to it and/or that implementing Brexit with her current Cabinet is like herding black cats in the dark. But those who love her need to speak some hard truths to her.Charles said:
Are you sure May blew a huge lead in the polls? I doubt it was real in the first placeydoethur said:
Yes, I agree. That's why I said it was an error. A stupid, grotesque unnecessary and totally counterproductive error that may tear Spain apart.Philip_Thompson said:Saying the vote should not go ahead is one thing.
One answer is to ignore it, call for a boycott by your own side then dismiss the outcome as illegal and point to the low turnout (caused by the boycott).
A good answer is not to beat up elderly voters, drag women by their hair and shoot rubber bullets at people. The law didn't demand any of that.
However, the narrow point that it was under the circumstances slightly less of an unforced error than calling an unneeded general election and blowing a huge lead in the polls over a tenth rate nutcase like Corbyn. While it may be worse overall, it wasn't totally unforced.0 -
Prompted by today's outrageous stunt during Tezzie's speech...
...my other half has booked tickets to see Lee Nelson! Legend.0 -
The LDs appointed a leader around the 20th December IIRCMikeL said:Betting on her to go this year could be risky in the sense that even if she resigns next week it might take till January to choose new leader. Say:
11 Oct - Resigns
16 Oct - Nominations open
19 Oct - Nominations close
24 Oct - MPs 1st ballot
26 Oct - MPs 2nd ballot
29 Oct - MPs 3rd ballot (if needed)
Even if down to two candidates by 26 Oct, I think members ballot is normally done over approx 8 weeks which would be very close indeed to Christmas.
Maybe they might do it over 6 weeks but even that would be approx 10 December - and that's all based on her going next week.0 -
-
No it didn't. It started much earlier. For a start the Bruges Group was founded in 1989 and it was because of her antipathy towards the EC project that Maggie was removed by the Eurofanatics in her party.Jonathan said:
They were much cleverer than both Cameron and May. Anyway Euroscepticism started with Major and Maastricht.TheScreamingEagles said:
The issue of our relationship with the EU was coming, it just happened on Cameron's watch.Jonathan said:
Cameron winning a majority by massacring his coalition partner and promising a referendum damaged the Tory party.TheScreamingEagles said:
I reckon TPD winning his seat in 2015 would have caused less damage for the Tory party than Mrs May did today.Jonathan said:
Surely that's crossing the line.TheScreamingEagles said:
I spent most of today wishing Theresa May had lost her seat in 2015 instead of Mark Reckless.Scrapheap_as_was said:Been out all day. Missed much?
Just imagine a nice minority with C&S from nice Mr Clegg facing the even nicer Mr Milliband.
This could have all been avoided if Blair and Brown had delivered on their promise of a referendum on Lisbon.0 -
That rings true but it doesn't stop 47 MPs writing to the 1922 committee chairman.kle4 said:
I suspect the problem now is that with things as they stand the only person with a credible chance at replacing her swiftly is Boris Johnson, and call me crazy, they don't seem to be fans of one another, or at least their allies leak enough to make it seem that way. Her demeanour is not that of someone who thinks they can overcome the wounds suffered in June, it's of someone who does not they are not up to it, but desperate to be there long enough to at least deny Boris the prize.Cyclefree said:
It may be hard for her to admit that she is not up to it and/or that implementing Brexit with her current Cabinet is like herding black cats in the dark. But those who love her need to speak some hard truths to her.Charles said:
Are you sure May blew a huge lead in the polls? I doubt it was real in the first placeydoethur said:
Yes, I agree. That's why I said it was an error. A stupid, grotesque unnecessary and totally counterproductive error that may tear Spain apart.Philip_Thompson said:Saying the vote should not go ahead is one thing.
One answer is to ignore it, call for a boycott by your own side then dismiss the outcome as illegal and point to the low turnout (caused by the boycott).
A good answer is not to beat up elderly voters, drag women by their hair and shoot rubber bullets at people. The law didn't demand any of that.
However, the narrow point that it was under the circumstances slightly less of an unforced error than calling an unneeded general election and blowing a huge lead in the polls over a tenth rate nutcase like Corbyn. While it may be worse overall, it wasn't totally unforced.0 -
George was right on June 9th.kle4 said:
I suspect the problem now is that with things as they stand the only person with a credible chance at replacing her swiftly is Boris Johnson, and call me crazy, they don't seem to be fans of one another, or at least their allies leak enough to make it seem that way. Her demeanour is not that of someone who thinks they can overcome the wounds suffered in June, it's of someone who does not they are not up to it, but desperate to be there long enough to at least deny Boris the prize.Cyclefree said:
It may be hard for her to admit that she is not up to it and/or that implementing Brexit with her current Cabinet is like herding black cats in the dark. But those who love her need to speak some hard truths to her.Charles said:
Are you sure May blew a huge lead in the polls? I doubt it was real in the first placeydoethur said:
Yes, I agree. That's why I said it was an error. A stupid, grotesque unnecessary and totally counterproductive error that may tear Spain apart.Philip_Thompson said:Saying the vote should not go ahead is one thing.
One answer is to ignore it, call for a boycott by your own side then dismiss the outcome as illegal and point to the low turnout (caused by the boycott).
A good answer is not to beat up elderly voters, drag women by their hair and shoot rubber bullets at people. The law didn't demand any of that.
However, the narrow point that it was under the circumstances slightly less of an unforced error than calling an unneeded general election and blowing a huge lead in the polls over a tenth rate nutcase like Corbyn. While it may be worse overall, it wasn't totally unforced.
She wasted 3 months on an election and another 3 clinging on.0 -
This is very significant post for bettors and is worth a header of its own...MikeL said:Betting on her to go this year could be risky in the sense that even if she resigns next week it might take till January to choose new leader. Say:
11 Oct - Resigns
16 Oct - Nominations open
19 Oct - Nominations close
24 Oct - MPs 1st ballot
26 Oct - MPs 2nd ballot
29 Oct - MPs 3rd ballot (if needed)
Even if down to two candidates by 26 Oct, I think members ballot is normally done over approx 8 weeks which would be very close indeed to Christmas.
Maybe they might do it over 6 weeks but even that would be approx 10 December - and that's all based on her going next week.0
