politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » TMay struggles on in spite of a bad cough and having to deal w

Missed the sleech so won't comment. However, seems a Party in disarray. Unable to
Correctly align it's slogan. Taught in Primary school.
Build a set which doesn't fall to bits.
Keep a well kmown prankster who has his own TV show away from the stage, let alone out of the hall.

Never mind May, the organisers need firing.

The problem for May is that she is becoming a figure of fun over and beyond the satirical norm. One has to sympathise with her as a human being -her cold, losing her voice, the P45 bully, the F dropping off, Boris Johnson's machinations, -but no PM can survive for long if they are a laughing stock.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkvEp_B5Kq8

The IDS comparison is flawed. 15 years ago the tories were in opposition. There were no reasons at all to keep him in that position. It is totally different now as the tories are leading a minority government, and there are many reasons to keep her in post.

williamglenn said:

Casino_Royale said:

FF43 said:

Well! That was some speech! Not the borefest we were expecting. "F. off" subliminal messaging. Mrs May about to expire on stage at any time. The P45 prank that almost looked it was set up by the organisers. Unfortunate pan shots on the faces of the assembled cabinet: how long was this - and she - going to last?

The content was weird. In part it was the speech David Cameron would give; in part the one Ed Miliband would give. Strange, given how beastly she was to both men.

But one concrete thing in it. It all comes back to Brexit in the end. She made it clear she was going to declare sovereignty and sign on the dotted line of the A50 Withdrawal Agreement. All her prospective replacements will want her to do that, not them. So she will be around until she does.

Northern Ireland is the sticking point, not the money or - IMHO - even the ECJ jurisdiction on its own citizens within the UK, which is solvable with a joint body.

I agree with Richard Nabavi that's inseparable from the trade deal for the UK overall, so it really is chicken and egg.

The government's position is no physical infrastructure at all on the Irish border. If you think Northern Ireland is inseparable form the UK as a whole then that means that the government has no real intention of leaving the customs union at all.

No, it could just mean that it has no intention of enforcing the border. For those who say that this'd be breaching WTO rules, I'd argue that the GFA provides the framework for all-Ireland solutions and that as there is a UK-Ireland agreement on this (plus other regional signatories), there's no need to default to WTO.

SeanT said:

Oh God. The Sun has all the best moments

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4610667/theresa-may-breaks-down-in-a-coughing-fit-during-excruciating-tory-conference-speech-as-philip-hammond-hands-her-a-lozenge/

IDS's Quiet Man speech killed him. This is far worse. Only Brexit is preventing her rivals from moving, but for how long?

This isn't the first time that the curse of Brexit has damaged the Tories. And it won't be the last.

Toast. Like Brexit.

rpjs said:

brendan16 said:

williamglenn said:

Casino_Royale said:

FF43 said:

Well! That was some speech! Not the borefest we were expecting. "F. off" subliminal messaging. Mrs May about to expire on stage at any time. The P45 prank that almost looked it was set up by the organisers. Unfortunate pan shots on the faces of the assembled cabinet: how long was this - and she - going to last?

The content was weird. In part it was the speech David Cameron would give; in part the one Ed Miliband would give. Strange, given how beastly she was to both men.

But one concrete thing in it. It all comes back to Brexit in the end. She made it clear she was going to declare sovereignty and sign on the dotted line of the A50 Withdrawal Agreement. All her prospective replacements will want her to do that, not them. So she will be around until she does.

Northern Ireland is the sticking point, not the money or - IMHO - even the ECJ jurisdiction on its own citizens within the UK, which is solvable with a joint body.

I agree with Richard Nabavi that's inseparable from the trade deal for the UK overall, so it really is chicken and egg.

The government's position is no physical infrastructure at all on the Irish border. If you think Northern Ireland is inseparable form the UK as a whole then that means that the government has no real intention of leaving the customs union at all.

Or is planning for the Customs union to include NI - via some form of all Ireland structure - but not GB?

Ireland and the U.K had freedom of movement and customs controls from 1923 to 1993 so there is a sort of precedent.

And smuggling was rampant. Will the EU tolerate a bordernthat allows it?

They will if the alternative is Ireland leaving as well as UK.

What is amazing about Simon brodkin stunt is that he wasn’t even in some clever disguise.

Richard_Tyndall said:

If May had had any nous she would have taken the P45 and replied to the prankster saying

"I hadn't expected Boris to resign until at least the end of the speech"

That would take a politician of skill and dexterity to do something like that... Theresa has absolutely no political skill in any way.

She's like a rabbit caught in headlights.

She's a complete nervous wreck. It's actually very cruel to let this go on....

Maybe it's time for her to play the poor health card.

I see CNN is back to normal and losing their shit over trump.

logical_song said:

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/bbcphilipsim/status/915544110106279937

I suppose 'EVERY' could fall off too.

Or the 'O' in country...

Good afternoon, everyone.

What bingo terms appeared?

TheScreamingEagles said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

Maybe it's time for her to play the poor health card.

Do a Supermac?

Yep

williamglenn said:

https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/915552432599523328

So Michael, it could have been worse?

Verulamius said:

williamglenn said:

https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/915552432599523328

So Michael, it could have been worse?

I think what he’s saying is: it doesn’t get any better than this.

TOPPING said:

Caller to a radio show reminded that he has diabetes and when he gets tired he begins to cough (no idea if this is a known thing).

So people apart from the "tired" bit will be reminded she had diabetes. Now, there is no reason on the planet for someone with diabetes not to be PM.

But I'm sure some people will think that on a simple physical level she might not be up to it. Which is another unfortunate factor for May.

The thing is that when you are on the top of your game mentally, you can get through big set-pieces like this even if you have a nasty cough, by sheer will-power. But if you are nervous and unsure of yourself, a cough is the worst thing to have. I am sure it's no coincidence that she didn't start coughing until after the unpleasant prankster put her off her stride.

TOPPING said:

Caller to a radio show reminded that he has diabetes and when he gets tired he begins to cough (no idea if this is a known thing).

So people apart from the "tired" bit will be reminded she had diabetes. Now, there is no reason on the planet for someone with diabetes not to be PM.

But I'm sure some people will think that on a simple physical level she might not be up to it. Which is another unfortunate factor for May.

As a sufferer of diabetes, it does occasionally cause a dry mouth, which can often be the sign of high blood sugar level.

Is why I drink a lot of water.

david_herdson said:

SeanT said:

Oh God. The Sun has all the best moments

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4610667/theresa-may-breaks-down-in-a-coughing-fit-during-excruciating-tory-conference-speech-as-philip-hammond-hands-her-a-lozenge/

IDS's Quiet Man speech killed him. This is far worse. Only Brexit is preventing her rivals from moving, but for how long?

She's fortunate that she's in the same position as Major in the mid-90s: all her potential replacements are themselves flawed, one way or another. There isn't anyone you could give the job to that you could say "yes, they'd without question do better". She also benefits from there being too many rivals, each of which won't want to move if it means handing the crown to someone else.

I'm not sure she is "fortunate" though.

Just look at her at the end of that speech. She's broken. She's nearly in tears. She's clinging to her husband like a drowning person clinging to a life raft.

If this goes on it will have very serious affects on her well-being, both psychological and physical - Maybe it already has.

The last thing anyone should want to see is for someone to become seriously ill in office but that's what could happen if this continues.

david_herdson said:

SeanT said:

Oh God. The Sun has all the best moments

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4610667/theresa-may-breaks-down-in-a-coughing-fit-during-excruciating-tory-conference-speech-as-philip-hammond-hands-her-a-lozenge/

IDS's Quiet Man speech killed him. This is far worse. Only Brexit is preventing her rivals from moving, but for how long?

She's fortunate that she's in the same position as Major in the mid-90s: all her potential replacements are themselves flawed, one way or another. There isn't anyone you could give the job to that you could say "yes, they'd without question do better". She also benefits from there being too many rivals, each of which won't want to move if it means handing the crown to someone else.

In the mid-90s it was versus Blair, though, and very few anticipated what a shellacking was coming. This time it's against Corbyn - far bigger danger - and the political warning signs are all there.

I think both Gove and Hunt would be technically better, I'm to be convinced on Rudd, but whether they'd be politically better is another matter.

It would have to be a Government of all the talents.

JohnO said:

Casino_Royale said:

SeanT said:

Oh God. The Sun has all the best moments

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4610667/theresa-may-breaks-down-in-a-coughing-fit-during-excruciating-tory-conference-speech-as-philip-hammond-hands-her-a-lozenge/

IDS's Quiet Man speech killed him. This is far worse. Only Brexit is preventing her rivals from moving, but for how long?

I think this speech will finish her off.

It won’t but we must have that drink I suggested a couple of months back (sorry!) and I’ll explain all, he fibs.

Be great to have a drink.

YellowSubmarine said:

Nobody is that unlucky. The cough is clearly psychosomatic. All the briefing on her being a broken woman is obviously utterly true. And her subconscious is kicking the front door in get her attention.

I'd genuinely feel sorry for her, root for her, defend her even. But after the nine month hate fest between ' Citizens of Nowhere ' and *that* campaign the evil banshee gets not a scintilla of clemency of me.

I've never ever laughed out loud at another human beings suffering before but I've just chortled away at those clips. I may download the whole thing as a daily pick me me up until the wretch is carted away.

A rather nasty post that diminishes you.

foxinsoxuk said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

https://twitter.com/BBCDomC/status/915545823466938369

Surely that was staged by someone? those letters were there for days, and fall off now.

Providence.

Richard_Nabavi said:

TOPPING said:

Caller to a radio show reminded that he has diabetes and when he gets tired he begins to cough (no idea if this is a known thing).

So people apart from the "tired" bit will be reminded she had diabetes. Now, there is no reason on the planet for someone with diabetes not to be PM.

But I'm sure some people will think that on a simple physical level she might not be up to it. Which is another unfortunate factor for May.

The thing is that when you are on the top of your game mentally, you can get through big set-pieces like this even if you have a nasty cough, by sheer will-power. But if you are nervous and unsure of yourself, a cough is the worst thing to have. I am sure it's no coincidence that she didn't start coughing until after the unpleasant prankster put her off her stride.

Yes indeed. I often do presentations to board meetings etc for my job and if I have a cold or cough you can guarantee it will come on during the meeting if I am a bit nervous or unsure how the audience will react.

MikeSmithson said:

eristdoof said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

I used to do quite a lot of public speaking and occasionally suffer from coughing and it was difficult but you battle on.

That a top politician does not know how to cope with this situation is the worrying aspect.

Remember - TMay has ZERO political skills. This is all about her vanity.

OTT comment

And the 'TMay' bantz is neither funny or clever...

What can the Tories do though? They need a human lightning rod to take the blame for the increasingly apparent Brexit catastrophe. She's going to have to keep going.

Casino_Royale said:

JohnO said:

Casino_Royale said:

SeanT said:

Oh God. The Sun has all the best moments

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4610667/theresa-may-breaks-down-in-a-coughing-fit-during-excruciating-tory-conference-speech-as-philip-hammond-hands-her-a-lozenge/

IDS's Quiet Man speech killed him. This is far worse. Only Brexit is preventing her rivals from moving, but for how long?

I think this speech will finish her off.

It won’t but we must have that drink I suggested a couple of months back (sorry!) and I’ll explain all, he fibs.

Be great to have a drink.

Take him to Searcys in St Pancras

Greater Manchester Police have put out this statement from chief superintendent John O’Hare said:

Earlier today a man was detained by conference security during the prime minister’s speech.

Officers attended and the man was arrested to prevent a breach of the peace and was released a short time later.

The man had legitimate accreditation which granted him access to the conference site.

In light of this we will be reviewing the accreditation process with the Conservative party.

Even with accreditation, everyone at the conference goes through airport-style searches before being allowed entry to the site

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2017/oct/04/conservative-conference-2017-theresa-may-to-announce-council-house-building-programme-politics-live

14:01

YellowSubmarine said:

Nobody is that unlucky. The cough is clearly psychosomatic. All the briefing on her being a broken woman is obviously utterly true. And her subconscious is kicking the front door in get her attention.

I'd genuinely feel sorry for her, root for her, defend her even. But after the nine month hate fest between ' Citizens of Nowhere ' and *that* campaign the evil banshee gets not a scintilla of clemency of me.

I've never ever laughed out loud at another human beings suffering before but I've just chortled away at those clips. I may download the whole thing as a daily pick me me up until the wretch is carted away.

What a horrible, horrible post. No wonder I feel increasingly alienated from the left with this sort of bile lurking so close to the surface.

The McDonnell/Momentum effect on the British left really is poison.

Vegas shooter had 47 weapons between the hotel room and two homes.

FF43 said:

Dura_Ace said:

What can the Tories do though? They need a human lightning rod to take the blame for the increasingly apparent Brexit catastrophe. She's going to have to keep going.

Seriously, I think you are right. Forget about money for council housing, engineering apprenticeships. Mrs May's job is to keep the show going for long enough to say, "We have left the EU and it doesn't look too bad" (because we're sticking with the EU system on a pay as you go, do as you are told basis).

If she can get a partial deal on trade, keep the cost lower while bringing back control of immigration and laws, she will be able to spin it as a moderate success. At that point she should hand over to someone from the next generation.

Dura_Ace said:

What can the Tories do though? They need a human lightning rod to take the blame for the increasingly apparent Brexit catastrophe. She's going to have to keep going.

That's the current assumption, but it's only one assumption. It's predicated on the fact she absorbs all the bile, and then the Party moves forward with a clean slate.

It's a beautifully simplistic solution, but it might be wrong.

Another one is that this is very difficult and all factions of the party need to be involved in making the deal, so a Government of all the talents being involved from all sides of the party can sell something to their wings having been in the middle of it.

Richard_Nabavi said:

The man had legitimate accreditation which granted him access to the conference site.

In light of this we will be reviewing the accreditation process with the Conservative party.

Bye bye Sir Patrick.

YellowSubmarine said:

.

I've never ever laughed out loud at another human beings suffering before

I'm sure that you have done.

rcs1000 said:

williamglenn said:

Casino_Royale said:

FF43 said:

Well! That was some speech! Not the borefest we were expecting. "F. off" subliminal messaging. Mrs May about to expire on stage at any time. The P45 prank that almost looked it was set up by the organisers. Unfortunate pan shots on the faces of the assembled cabinet: how long was this - and she - going to last?

The content was weird. In part it was the speech David Cameron would give; in part the one Ed Miliband would give. Strange, given how beastly she was to both men.

But one concrete thing in it. It all comes back to Brexit in the end. She made it clear she was going to declare sovereignty and sign on the dotted line of the A50 Withdrawal Agreement. All her prospective replacements will want her to do that, not them. So she will be around until she does.

Northern Ireland is the sticking point, not the money or - IMHO - even the ECJ jurisdiction on its own citizens within the UK, which is solvable with a joint body.

I agree with Richard Nabavi that's inseparable from the trade deal for the UK overall, so it really is chicken and egg.

The government's position is no physical infrastructure at all on the Irish border. If you think Northern Ireland is inseparable form the UK as a whole then that means that the government has no real intention of leaving the customs union at all.

That's not true.

There's no physical infrastructure between Switzerland or Norway and the EU, and neither of those countries are part of the Customs Union.

That's not true - I drove across on the motorway from Annecy to Geneva a few months ago and there are customs posts on both sides along with a control to make sure you had a"vignette" to allow you to drive on Swiss motorways. All traffic had to stop and some was checked. No passport control though.

Mr. Thompson, hmm. You may be correct, but I had it in mind it was Aristotle.

But the point about bad luck stands.

Mr. Eagles, a reasoned fellow admits when he may be wrong. One eagerly anticipates your recanting of the endless nonsense you have spouted over the years.

@casino_royale @Elliot @Richard_Tyndall Ridiculous bed wetting. They'll be writing books about May for decades. How did someone prevent enough to give the often misunderstood ' Nasty Party ' speech and who deservedly became PM end up offering the 9 month " Citizens of nowhere " to ' Crush the Sabateurs ' nightmare ? She's reaping what she sowed.

Elliot said:

FF43 said:

Dura_Ace said:

What can the Tories do though? They need a human lightning rod to take the blame for the increasingly apparent Brexit catastrophe. She's going to have to keep going.

Seriously, I think you are right. Forget about money for council housing, engineering apprenticeships. Mrs May's job is to keep the show going for long enough to say, "We have left the EU and it doesn't look too bad" (because we're sticking with the EU system on a pay as you go, do as you are told basis).

If she can get a partial deal on trade, keep the cost lower while bringing back control of immigration and laws, she will be able to spin it as a moderate success. At that point she should hand over to someone from the next generation.

She won't get an agreement on trade, limited immigration or repatriation of laws. She might be able to get a partial and temporary continuation of current arrangements while they work out what the hell happens next. Otherwise 800 treaties that support our national lifestyle will lapse. The point is that if we want things to carry on approximately as they are, it will be by the decision of the EU, it will cost us and we will have to agree to what they want. It might seem stupid to pay more to get less and have less control, when we had all that by right. But there we go. I voted Remain.

anothernick said:

rcs1000 said:

williamglenn said:

Casino_Royale said:

FF43 said:

Well! That was some speech! Not the borefest we were expecting. "F. off" subliminal messaging. Mrs May about to expire on stage at any time. The P45 prank that almost looked it was set up by the organisers. Unfortunate pan shots on the faces of the assembled cabinet: how long was this - and she - going to last?

The content was weird. In part it was the speech David Cameron would give; in part the one Ed Miliband would give. Strange, given how beastly she was to both men.

But one concrete thing in it. It all comes back to Brexit in the end. She made it clear she was going to declare sovereignty and sign on the dotted line of the A50 Withdrawal Agreement. All her prospective replacements will want her to do that, not them. So she will be around until she does.

Northern Ireland is the sticking point, not the money or - IMHO - even the ECJ jurisdiction on its own citizens within the UK, which is solvable with a joint body.

I agree with Richard Nabavi that's inseparable from the trade deal for the UK overall, so it really is chicken and egg.

The government's position is no physical infrastructure at all on the Irish border. If you think Northern Ireland is inseparable form the UK as a whole then that means that the government has no real intention of leaving the customs union at all.

That's not true.

There's no physical infrastructure between Switzerland or Norway and the EU, and neither of those countries are part of the Customs Union.

That's not true - I drove across on the motorway from Annecy to Geneva a few months ago and there are customs posts on both sides along with a control to make sure you had a"vignette" to allow you to drive on Swiss motorways. All traffic had to stop and some was checked. No passport control though.

Yes, but those (a) date from before Switzerland joined Schengen, and (b) exist only today to remove cash for vignettes from tourists.

rcs1000 said:

williamglenn said:

Casino_Royale said:

FF43 said:

Well! That was some speech! Not the borefest we were expecting. "F. off" subliminal messaging. Mrs May about to expire on stage at any time. The P45 prank that almost looked it was set up by the organisers. Unfortunate pan shots on the faces of the assembled cabinet: how long was this - and she - going to last?

The content was weird. In part it was the speech David Cameron would give; in part the one Ed Miliband would give. Strange, given how beastly she was to both men.

But one concrete thing in it. It all comes back to Brexit in the end. She made it clear she was going to declare sovereignty and sign on the dotted line of the A50 Withdrawal Agreement. All her prospective replacements will want her to do that, not them. So she will be around until she does.

Northern Ireland is the sticking point, not the money or - IMHO - even the ECJ jurisdiction on its own citizens within the UK, which is solvable with a joint body.

I agree with Richard Nabavi that's inseparable from the trade deal for the UK overall, so it really is chicken and egg.

The government's position is no physical infrastructure at all on the Irish border. If you think Northern Ireland is inseparable form the UK as a whole then that means that the government has no real intention of leaving the customs union at all.

That's not true.

There's no physical infrastructure between Switzerland or Norway and the EU, and neither of those countries are part of the Customs Union.

Easy to fact check with Google Maps:

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@47.6079296,8.2341963,3a,75y,314.04h,93.61t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sq9uZLi89ttpBQfol7albvQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Urquhart, commodity price fixing was rightly condemned by Ammianus Marcellinus, and wrongly promoted by Ed Miliband.

The wise knew such things to be tosh in the 4th century AD. It's a stupid policy.

I don’t disagree, point is like student loan change it won’t alter a single vote.

FF43 said:

Elliot said:

FF43 said:

Dura_Ace said:

What can the Tories do though? They need a human lightning rod to take the blame for the increasingly apparent Brexit catastrophe. She's going to have to keep going.

Seriously, I think you are right. Forget about money for council housing, engineering apprenticeships. Mrs May's job is to keep the show going for long enough to say, "We have left the EU and it doesn't look too bad" (because we're sticking with the EU system on a pay as you go, do as you are told basis).

If she can get a partial deal on trade, keep the cost lower while bringing back control of immigration and laws, she will be able to spin it as a moderate success. At that point she should hand over to someone from the next generation.

She won't get an agreement on trade, limited immigration or repatriation of laws. She might be able to get a partial and temporary continuation of current arrangements while they work out what the hell happens next. Otherwise 800 treaties that support our national lifestyle will lapse. The point is that if we want things to carry on approximately as they are, it will be by the decision of the EU, it will cost us and we will have to agree to what they want. It might seem stupid to pay more to get less and have less control, when we had all that by right. But there we go. I voted Remain.

Understandable when you have such a poor grasp of matters

rcs1000 said:

anothernick said:

rcs1000 said:

williamglenn said:

Casino_Royale said:

FF43 said:

Well! That was some speech! Not the borefest we were expecting. "F. off" subliminal messaging. Mrs May about to expire on stage at any time. The P45 prank that almost looked it was set up by the organisers. Unfortunate pan shots on the faces of the assembled cabinet: how long was this - and she - going to last?

The content was weird. In part it was the speech David Cameron would give; in part the one Ed Miliband would give. Strange, given how beastly she was to both men.

But one concrete thing in it. It all comes back to Brexit in the end. She made it clear she was going to declare sovereignty and sign on the dotted line of the A50 Withdrawal Agreement. All her prospective replacements will want her to do that, not them. So she will be around until she does.

Northern Ireland is the sticking point, not the money or - IMHO - even the ECJ jurisdiction on its own citizens within the UK, which is solvable with a joint body.

I agree with Richard Nabavi that's inseparable from the trade deal for the UK overall, so it really is chicken and egg.

The government's position is no physical infrastructure at all on the Irish border. If you think Northern Ireland is inseparable form the UK as a whole then that means that the government has no real intention of leaving the customs union at all.

That's not true.

There's no physical infrastructure between Switzerland or Norway and the EU, and neither of those countries are part of the Customs Union.

That's not true - I drove across on the motorway from Annecy to Geneva a few months ago and there are customs posts on both sides along with a control to make sure you had a"vignette" to allow you to drive on Swiss motorways. All traffic had to stop and some was checked. No passport control though.

Yes, but those (a) date from before Switzerland joined Schengen, and (b) exist only today to remove cash for vignettes from tourists.

They do a bit more than that:

https://www.ezv.admin.ch/ezv/en/home/information-companies.html

YellowSubmarine said:

@casino_royale @Elliot @Richard_Tyndall Ridiculous bed wetting. They'll be writing books about May for decades. How did someone prevent enough to give the often misunderstood ' Nasty Party ' speech and who deservedly became PM end up offering the 9 month " Citizens of nowhere " to ' Crush the Sabateurs ' nightmare ? She's reaping what she sowed.

Nah. You are just a nasty piece of sputum with zero empathy. The simplest options are usually the correct ones.

Well at least she's able to laugh at the situation

https://twitter.com/theresa_may/status/915567812831318016

williamglenn said:

rcs1000 said:

williamglenn said:

Casino_Royale said:

FF43 said:

Well! That was some speech! Not the borefest we were expecting. "F. off" subliminal messaging. Mrs May about to expire on stage at any time. The P45 prank that almost looked it was set up by the organisers. Unfortunate pan shots on the faces of the assembled cabinet: how long was this - and she - going to last?

The content was weird. In part it was the speech David Cameron would give; in part the one Ed Miliband would give. Strange, given how beastly she was to both men.

But one concrete thing in it. It all comes back to Brexit in the end. She made it clear she was going to declare sovereignty and sign on the dotted line of the A50 Withdrawal Agreement. All her prospective replacements will want her to do that, not them. So she will be around until she does.

Northern Ireland is the sticking point, not the money or - IMHO - even the ECJ jurisdiction on its own citizens within the UK, which is solvable with a joint body.

I agree with Richard Nabavi that's inseparable from the trade deal for the UK overall, so it really is chicken and egg.

The government's position is no physical infrastructure at all on the Irish border. If you think Northern Ireland is inseparable form the UK as a whole then that means that the government has no real intention of leaving the customs union at all.

That's not true.

There's no physical infrastructure between Switzerland or Norway and the EU, and neither of those countries are part of the Customs Union.

Easy to fact check with Google Maps:

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@47.6079296,8.2341963,3a,75y,314.04h,93.61t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sq9uZLi89ttpBQfol7albvQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Hmmm: I can post Google maps pictures of many places where you can and many people do (legally) cross the border between the EU and Switzerland and there is no physical infrastructure.

Like here: https://www.google.com/maps/place/3920+Zermatt,+Switzerland/@45.9464555,7.7079857,2214m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x478f35a2292ee5cd:0x400ff8840196f70!8m2!3d46.0207133!4d7.749117

They've even built LIFTS to help people cross unhindered between the two countries.

Richard_Tyndall said:

FF43 said:

Elliot said:

FF43 said:

Dura_Ace said:

What can the Tories do though? They need a human lightning rod to take the blame for the increasingly apparent Brexit catastrophe. She's going to have to keep going.

Seriously, I think you are right. Forget about money for council housing, engineering apprenticeships. Mrs May's job is to keep the show going for long enough to say, "We have left the EU and it doesn't look too bad" (because we're sticking with the EU system on a pay as you go, do as you are told basis).

If she can get a partial deal on trade, keep the cost lower while bringing back control of immigration and laws, she will be able to spin it as a moderate success. At that point she should hand over to someone from the next generation.

She won't get an agreement on trade, limited immigration or repatriation of laws. She might be able to get a partial and temporary continuation of current arrangements while they work out what the hell happens next. Otherwise 800 treaties that support our national lifestyle will lapse. The point is that if we want things to carry on approximately as they are, it will be by the decision of the EU, it will cost us and we will have to agree to what they want. It might seem stupid to pay more to get less and have less control, when we had all that by right. But there we go. I voted Remain.

Understandable when you have such a poor grasp of matters

We will find out within twelve months whether we will have a trade agreement with the EU on our rules and with us limiting immigration. As all those things are specifically excluded in the EU negotiating guidelines it seems unlikely. I don't see any reason to change my mind on your "contribution" to the debate, which is pure and dull insult.

FF43 said:

Elliot said:

FF43 said:

Dura_Ace said:

What can the Tories do though? They need a human lightning rod to take the blame for the increasingly apparent Brexit catastrophe. She's going to have to keep going.

Seriously, I think you are right. Forget about money for council housing, engineering apprenticeships. Mrs May's job is to keep the show going for long enough to say, "We have left the EU and it doesn't look too bad" (because we're sticking with the EU system on a pay as you go, do as you are told basis).

If she can get a partial deal on trade, keep the cost lower while bringing back control of immigration and laws, she will be able to spin it as a moderate success. At that point she should hand over to someone from the next generation.

She won't get an agreement on trade, limited immigration or repatriation of laws. She might be able to get a partial and temporary continuation of current arrangements while they work out what the hell happens next. Otherwise 800 treaties that support our national lifestyle will lapse. The point is that if we want things to carry on approximately as they are, it will be by the decision of the EU, it will cost us and we will have to agree to what they want. It might seem stupid to pay more to get less and have less control, when we had all that by right. But there we go. I voted Remain.

Yes that sums it up pretty well.

But I'm struck by how quickly the political forces that supported Brexit have withered. UKIP? A ghostly shadow of its former self. The Tory grassroots? A shrinking, ageing group who have been knocked sideways by the general election disaster. The Mail, Sun & Telegraph? Still in the game but well past the peak of their influence. Business groups and economists? Support for Brexit is now all but impossible to find. The only enthusiastic Brexiteers left seem to be a minority of Tory MPs and I wonder if this will be enough to see the process through when the sh"t hits the fan.

rcs1000 said:

They've even built LIFTS to help people cross unhindered between the two countries.

They obviously don't expect any goods lorries to be passing through there...

JSpring said:

CopperSulphate said:

Elliot said:

YellowSubmarine said:

Nobody is that unlucky. The cough is clearly psychosomatic. All the briefing on her being a broken woman is obviously utterly true. And her subconscious is kicking the front door in get her attention.

I'd genuinely feel sorry for her, root for her, defend her even. But after the nine month hate fest between ' Citizens of Nowhere ' and *that* campaign the evil banshee gets not a scintilla of clemency of me.

I've never ever laughed out loud at another human beings suffering before but I've just chortled away at those clips. I may download the whole thing as a daily pick me me up until the wretch is carted away.

What a horrible, horrible post. No wonder I feel increasingly alienated from the left with this sort of bile lurking so close to the surface.

The McDonnell/Momentum effect on the British left really is poison.

The left have really lost their marbles since Trump/Brexit.

Lashing out at anyone who disagrees with them in the nastiest way possible with a side helping of sanctimony. Blergh.

Er, a fair few people on the "McDonnell/Momentum" left actually voted Leave, and probably didn't exactly cry themselves to sleep when Hillary Clinton lost.

Yeah fair point. But those lot weren't exactly nice to start with though to be honest.