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I think it also very useful for the enthusiastic youth of Momentum to put their efforts and campaigning into such a worthwhile cause. It keeps them match fit, engaged with a young population that feels disenfranchised and sublimates their energies appropriately. They will be streetwise veteran campaigners, and legion in number when the election comes.NickPalmer said:
McDonalds is also vulnerable to quite a bit of its clientele being sensitive to the idea that the company is run at the expense of its workers. It's not as though there was a shortage of fast food joints to choose from. The others may be no better, but the UAW did well in the car industry for a long time by picking on one company at a time.foxinsoxuk said:
This is the most interesting strike in years, having international aspects (today was chosen as it is Labour day in the USA, and there are strikes there, as well as a number of other countries, and all inspired by the successful NZ actions).AlastairMeeks said:We haven't yet reached the point where McDonalds is an essential service. The staff should be allowed to take whatever industrial action they think fit to improve pay and conditions if they are dissatisfied.
It also is an attempt to unionise and organise a private sector service industry that acts on a global scale to pay minimum wages, subsidised by the state, while raking off the profits for executives and shareholders, and paying very little tax. Time to organise in Starbucks, Amazon, and a few others next.
After all, what is the point of the people having sovereignty if they cannot exercise it? The threat to the people is far more from globalized capitalists than it is from the EU. As I said, Corbyn and McDonnell can surf this wave a lot further.
Corbyn and co are on the right side of history on this one, and it is the sort of extra parliamentary direct action that can peacefully transform politics here. I applaud them.0 -
At £10 per hour the pool would be there. However I do agree that young workers up to 25 should have an improvement in their wage rates nearer to the Government's National Living WageBig_G_NorthWales said:
Whilst I understand your sentiments, the only surprise is that it has taken so long. We are at full employment in many regions now. We are vowing to crack down on low-skilled immigration. The pool of mature employees to work in McDonald's simply isn't there. We will see more of this. We can't keep these employment levels with little to no wage growth. It is simple economics.dixiedean said:BigG said:
With respect you are turning into Corbyn - if you think paying £10 per hour to largely student and trainee workers is warranted why would any employer give them a job when they can pay a similar figure to much more mature employees
Yes. I've never really understood the scale of the under-25 differential or its justification. Presumably, at 24 you could have 8 years experience?
Maybe an inflation-busting raise in the youth minimum wage is something that could be considered?
ps, having suffered a day at the Metro Centre today, I can confirm that McDonald's employees work bloody hard for their pay!
Can't get blockquote to work!0 -
As for Amazon not paying taxes, as it repeatedly has to be mentioned, they genuinely make bugger all profit on flogging books, dvds etc. They aren't avoiding any taxes on profits on that as there is none to little. The loophole they did exploit was not paying the full whack of uk VAT, but I believe that has been closed now.
Where Amazon make proper money is AWS, which isn't uk based.0 -
The paradox of strikes in post Thatcher Britain is that they are heavily concentrated in the parts of the economy that least need them. The figures are stark. Strike days are overwhelmingly the preserve of public services and faux privatised state monopolies like the railways. See a strike and you nearly always see a heavily unionised workforce with ( relatively ) strong employment terms working for a state service who's provider can be a influenced by alternative democratic means. And in the public sector strikes are often about resisting change rather than wage levels per se.
Rather like the paradox of Obesity and Smoking now being diseases of the poor not the rich Striking has been shunned by those that would most benefit and owned by those in the strongest position in the first place.
This is one reason the McDonalds strikes are the most interesting in years.0 -
Yes. I've never really understood the scale of the under-25 differential or its justification. Presumably, at 24 you could have 8 years experience?dixiedean said:
At £10 per hour the pool would be there. However I do agree that young workers up to 25 should have an improvement in their wage rates nearer to the Government's National Living WageBig_G_NorthWales said:
Whilst I understand your sentiments, the only surprise is that it has taken so long. We are at full employment in many regions now. We are vowing to crack down on low-skilled immigration. The pool of mature employees to work in McDonald's simply isn't there. We will see more of this. We can't keep these employment levels with little to no wage growth. It is simple economics.dixiedean said:BigG said:
With respect you are turning into Corbyn - if you think paying £10 per hour to largely student and trainee workers is warranted why would any employer give them a job when they can pay a similar figure to much more mature employees
Maybe an inflation-busting raise in the youth minimum wage is something that could be considered?
ps, having suffered a day at the Metro Centre today, I can confirm that McDonald's employees work bloody hard for their pay!
There is room for movement in this area but talk of £10 per hour is off the scale0 -
First ConHome now the Vice Chancellor of Oxford University is criticising Mrs May, so I'm rapidly reviewing my opinion of Mrs May
https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/9048194768556974080 -
I have not heard that Macdonalds is a bad employer, but I know nothing about the rights and wrongs of this particular dispute. I doubt if Corbyn does, either.foxinsoxuk said:
Just my suggestion, so that the employee has protection from exploitative practices.Sean_F said:
I don't see why it should be up to a Shop Steward to decide.foxinsoxuk said:
TheBig_G_NorthWales said:
86% of McDonald's workforce want zero hours contracts to remain.foxinsoxuk said:
When I vote for Brexit to stop immigrants undercutting my pay, they call me a patriot. However, when I #mcstrike for higher pay they call me a Communist...Mortimer said:
Because we have (and I am very supportive of this) a generous welfare state.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I can see your argument but it is voter perception more than anything that wants to reduce unskilled immigrationFF43 said:
People who study thisBig_G_NorthWales said:
I am one of the 86% and I am one of the 64%HYUFD said:British Future has a survey showing that 86% want high-skilled immigration from the EU to stay the same or rise post Brexit (including 82% of Leave voters) but 64% of the public (including 50% of Remain voters) want low-skilled immigration from the EU to fall
http://www.britishfuture.org/articles/immigration-consensus-after-brexit/
I am not claiming this as an argument for more immigration, but simply to point out of it is more complex than skilled immigration good; unskilled bad. If anything, it's better to move up the value chain and buy in the unskilled labour.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4850082/McDonald-s-staff-stage-strike-pay.html?ITO=1490
The Tories support for the workers doesn't last very long, does it?
I have no problem with ZHC when they are the workers choice*, but very often they are not, and are exploitative ways of making the workers subservient to their masters whims.
* I would suggest that ZHCs should only be permitted in unionised workplaces where the shop steward authorises it following discussion with the stakeholders, and the employee in particular.
Why should the state subsidise these companies with in work benefits, when they pay no taxes and offshore profits? If their business model only works on the basis that society picks up the costs while they pick up the profits, what has been the gain for the nation?
As the Good Book says "The worker is worthy of his hire"0 -
These pay awards need reigning in and need to be performance relatedTheScreamingEagles said:First ConHome now the Vice Chancellor of Oxford University is criticising Mrs May, so I'm rapidly reviewing my opinion of Mrs May
https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/9048194768556974080 -
The morning thread contains a very subtle pun/80s pop music reference.
One of my best.0 -
Quite. Seems the Government has at last picked the right fight.Big_G_NorthWales said:
These pay awards need reigning in and need to be performance relatedTheScreamingEagles said:First ConHome now the Vice Chancellor of Oxford University is criticising Mrs May, so I'm rapidly reviewing my opinion of Mrs May
https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/9048194768556974080 -
That is crazy: at some point surely people must start calling out this nonsense.FrancisUrquhart said:What an absolute clusterfuck,
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/09/04/ted-heath-accusers-line-compensation-police-appeal-victims/
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Be careful what you wish for.foxinsoxuk said:
I think it also very useful for the enthusiastic youth of Momentum to put their efforts and campaigning into such a worthwhile cause. It keeps them match fit, engaged with a young population that feels disenfranchised and sublimates their energies appropriately. They will be streetwise veteran campaigners, and legion in number when the election comes.NickPalmer said:
McDonalds is also vulnerable to quite a bit of its clientele being sensitive to the idea that the company is run at the expense of its workers. It's not as though there was a shortage of fast food joints to choose from. The others may be no better, but the UAW did well in the car industry for a long time by picking on one company at a time.foxinsoxuk said:
This is the most interesting strike in years, having international aspects (today was chosen as it is Labour day in the USA, and there are strikes there, as well as a number of other countries, and all inspired by the successful NZ actions).AlastairMeeks said:We haven't yet reached the point where McDonalds is an essential service. The staff should be allowed to take whatever industrial action they think fit to improve pay and conditions if they are dissatisfied.
It also is an attempt to unionise and organise a private sector service industry that acts on a global scale to pay minimum wages, subsidised by the state, while raking off the profits for executives and shareholders, and paying very little tax. Time to organise in Starbucks, Amazon, and a few others next.
After all, what is the point of the people having sovereignty if they cannot exercise it? The threat to the people is far more from globalized capitalists than it is from the EU. As I said, Corbyn and McDonnell can surf this wave a lot further.
Corbyn and co are on the right side of history on this one, and it is the sort of extra parliamentary direct action that can peacefully transform politics here. I applaud them.
The last 'extra parliamentary' direct action was Brexit. Perhaps the next will be NHS customers for banning private practise, or Londoners for automated tubes.
Producer interests are very strongly protected by regulation. Consumer interests, especially in public provision, far less so.0 -
The next issue is that McDonalds is a brand and a strong brand that self consciously identifies as a brand and puts enormous resources into maintaining and defining that brand. So strike action isn't just supply and demand for labour. Frankly the reason McDonalds doesn't pay more is because it doesn't need to in terms of attracting sufficient labour. But it may need to pay more to maintain it's brand. Does it's employment practices pass the smell test by it's customer base.
I'm afraid in post Brexit, post Corbyn Britain many of McDonalds customers will be sneakily sympathetic to deal of badly paid workers " Taking back control ". And as we've established facts and economics need no longer concern is when identity and anomie are concerned.0 -
Trying to be a Tory version of Momentum. Some of them seem to have er! interesting histories.Richard_Tyndall said:
Okay I know I should probably know this but who the hell are Activate? I have never heard of them until this evening.williamglenn said:0 -
Looks like Theresa May is going big on her agenda with the abolition of the pay cap, performance related pay in the public sector, a big speech on Europe due by the 21st September, and a cabinet re- shuffle.Luckyguy1983 said:
Quite. Seems the Government has at last picked the right fight.Big_G_NorthWales said:
These pay awards need reigning in and need to be performance relatedTheScreamingEagles said:First ConHome now the Vice Chancellor of Oxford University is criticising Mrs May, so I'm rapidly reviewing my opinion of Mrs May
https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/904819476855697408
Interesting times ahead over the coming months0 -
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Subtle? So not one of your best then.TheScreamingEagles said:The morning thread contains a very subtle pun/80s pop music reference.
One of my best.0 -
Also if you go to a McDonalds there are a number of counter intuitive ethical stances. Only British and Irish Beef, only Free Range Eggs, organic Milk, RSPCA approved Freedom Food status for it's Pork, only Chicken Breast meat, in-store recycling points and a no Landfill target, reuse f frying oil as biofuel...
There is an argument that striking workers are just marginally ahead of the management on the pay/ZHC issue. The Brand has clearly been engaging with many of these ethical issues for years. So why is low pay an anathema ?0 -
I entirely agree. There is a desperate need for effective unionisation of these private sector companies to rebalance with the rights of state employees. It should be a levelling up, not a levelling down.YellowSubmarine said:The paradox of strikes in post Thatcher Britain is that they are heavily concentrated in the parts of the economy that least need them. The figures are stark. Strike days are overwhelmingly the preserve of public services and faux privatised state monopolies like the railways. See a strike and you nearly always see a heavily unionised workforce with ( relatively ) strong employment terms working for a state service who's provider can be a influenced by alternative democratic means. And in the public sector strikes are often about resisting change rather than wage levels per se.
Rather like the paradox of Obesity and Smoking now being diseases of the poor not the rich Striking has been shunned by those that would most benefit and owned by those in the strongest position in the first place.
This is one reason the McDonalds strikes are the most interesting in years.
Increases in minimum wages, reductions in dependence on state subsidisation, and targetting of offshore profits are all policies that the Tory governments have spoken of, but I think Corbyn can deliver these so much more effectively.
Amazon may not declare a profit, but Bezos is now spoken of as possibly the richest man on the planet, while his workers in his Leics distribution centre slave on minimum wage and spartan conditions. It is a problem that needs addressing if capitalism is to survive.0 -
But will her refusal to condem homophobia amongst lecturers be her downfall first ?TheScreamingEagles said:First ConHome now the Vice Chancellor of Oxford University is criticising Mrs May, so I'm rapidly reviewing my opinion of Mrs May
https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/9048194768556974080 -
Then there is the curious onshoring of McDonalds non US tax base n the UK - which many were happy to spin as a post Brexit sucess - as an EC investigation. So why should economic populism stop there ?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-38252802
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I dont think McDonalds is a bad as some, but it is perhaps a reasonable place to start as it is so keen to maintain a cool image with its target demographic. McDonalds is frightened of tainting that reputation. It took a lot of time to get over the own goal of the Mclibel campaign.YellowSubmarine said:Also if you go to a McDonalds there are a number of counter intuitive ethical stances. Only British and Irish Beef, only Free Range Eggs, organic Milk, RSPCA approved Freedom Food status for it's Pork, only Chicken Breast meat, in-store recycling points and a no Landfill target, reuse f frying oil as biofuel...
There is an argument that striking workers are just marginally ahead of the management on the pay/ZHC issue. The Brand has clearly been engaging with many of these ethical issues for years. So why is low pay an anathema ?0 -
LEAVE IN SILENCETheScreamingEagles said:The morning thread contains a very subtle pun/80s pop music reference.
One of my best.0 -
I will repeat myself...foxinsoxuk said:
I entirely agree. There is a desperate need for effective unionisation of these private sector companies to rebalance with the rights of state employees. It should be a levelling up, not a levelling down.YellowSubmarine said:The paradox of strikes in post Thatcher Britain is that they are heavily concentrated in the parts of the economy that least need them. The figures are stark. Strike days are overwhelmingly the preserve of public services and faux privatised state monopolies like the railways. See a strike and you nearly always see a heavily unionised workforce with ( relatively ) strong employment terms working for a state service who's provider can be a influenced by alternative democratic means. And in the public sector strikes are often about resisting change rather than wage levels per se.
Rather like the paradox of Obesity and Smoking now being diseases of the poor not the rich Striking has been shunned by those that would most benefit and owned by those in the strongest position in the first place.
This is one reason the McDonalds strikes are the most interesting in years.
Increases in minimum wages, reductions in dependence on state subsidisation, and targetting of offshore profits are all policies that the Tory governments have spoken of, but I think Corbyn can deliver these so much more effectively.
Amazon may not declare a profit, but Bezos is now spoken of as possibly the richest man on the planet, while his workers in his Leics distribution centre slave on minimum wage and spartan conditions. It is a problem that needs addressing if capitalism is to survive.
McDonald's the corporate entity providing the "ethical" food etc don't own the restaurants that the workers are complaining about low pay in.
Amazon the retailer does make some money, but not much in having massive warehouses of product (and what they do make goes into expansion and technologicsl advances).
But Amazon isn't really a retailer at all, they are a tech company. For example their deal with netflixs makes them way more than all that flogging books nonsense. and bezos is mega wealthy because of the stock price of a tech company which investors think has amazing tech / ip that few can match.
Investors actually want Amazon to start charging more for the likes of aws and making more profit, but bezos resists this.
Of the ones commonly mentioned as taking the piss on tax, Starbucks is the one that is genuinely exploiting every loophole while making big margins. Although interestingly the margins aren't as big as reported for a number of complex reasons.0 -
That was McDonalds skipping town ahead of the law, methinks:YellowSubmarine said:Then there is the curious onshoring of McDonalds non US tax base n the UK - which many were happy to spin as a post Brexit sucess - as an EC investigation. So why should economic populism stop there ?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-38252802
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-382550870 -
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Bezos is the richest man in the world, his Leics workers are paid minimum wage. If you cannot see why that is not a tolerable or sustainable state then I do not know where to start...FrancisUrquhart said:
I will repeat myself...foxinsoxuk said:
I entirely agree. There is a desperate need for effective unionisation of these private sector companies to rebalance with the rights of state employees. It should be a levelling up, not a levelling down.YellowSubmarine said:The paradox of strikes in post Thatcher Britain is that they are heavily concentrated in the parts of the economy that least need them. The figures are stark. Strike days are overwhelmingly the preserve of public services and faux privatised state monopolies like the railways. See a strike and you nearly always see a heavily unionised workforce with ( relatively ) strong employment terms working for a state service who's provider can be a influenced by alternative democratic means. And in the public sector strikes are often about resisting change rather than wage levels per se.
Rather like the paradox of Obesity and Smoking now being diseases of the poor not the rich Striking has been shunned by those that would most benefit and owned by those in the strongest position in the first place.
This is one reason the McDonalds strikes are the most interesting in years.
Increases in minimum wages, reductions in dependence on state subsidisation, and targetting of offshore profits are all policies that the Tory governments have spoken of, but I think Corbyn can deliver these so much more effectively.
Amazon may not declare a profit, but Bezos is now spoken of as possibly the richest man on the planet, while his workers in his Leics distribution centre slave on minimum wage and spartan conditions. It is a problem that needs addressing if capitalism is to survive.
McDonald's the corporate entity providing the "ethical" food etc don't own the restaurants that the workers are complaining about low pay in.
Amazon the retailer does make some money, but not much in having massive warehouses of product (and what they do make goes into expansion and technologicsl advances).
But Amazon isn't really a retailer at all, they are a tech company. For example their deal with netflixs makes them way more than all that flogging books nonsense. and bezos is mega wealthy because of the stock price of a tech company which investors think has amazing tech / ip that few can match. Investors actually want Amazon to start charging more for the likes of aws and making more profit, but bezos resists this.0 -
So you are saying he should turn his warehouse business into a loss making enterprise?foxinsoxuk said:
Bezos is the richest man in the world, his Leics workers are paid minimum wage. If you cannot see why that is not a tolerable or sustainable state then I do not know where to start...FrancisUrquhart said:
I will repeat myself...foxinsoxuk said:
I entirely agree. There is a desperate need for effective unionisation of these private sector companies to rebalance with the rights of state employees. It should be a levelling up, not a levelling down.YellowSubmarine said:The paradox of strikes in post Thatcher Britain is that they are heavily concentrated in the parts of the economy that least need them. The figures are stark. Strike days are overwhelmingly the preserve of public services and faux privatised state monopolies like the railways. See a strike and you nearly always see a heavily unionised workforce with ( relatively ) strong employment terms working for a state service who's provider can be a influenced by alternative democratic means. And in the public sector strikes are often about resisting change rather than wage levels per se.
Rather like the paradox of Obesity and Smoking now being diseases of the poor not the rich Striking has been shunned by those that would most benefit and owned by those in the strongest position in the first place.
This is one reason the McDonalds strikes are the most interesting in years.
Increases in minimum wages, reductions in dependence on state subsidisation, and targetting of offshore profits are all policies that the Tory governments have spoken of, but I think Corbyn can deliver these so much more effectively.
Amazon may not declare a profit, but Bezos is now spoken of as possibly the richest man on the planet, while his workers in his Leics distribution centre slave on minimum wage and spartan conditions. It is a problem that needs addressing if capitalism is to survive.
McDonald's the corporate entity providing the "ethical" food etc don't own the restaurants that the workers are complaining about low pay in.
Amazon the retailer does make some money, but not much in having massive warehouses of product (and what they do make goes into expansion and technologicsl advances).
But Amazon isn't really a retailer at all, they are a tech company. For example their deal with netflixs makes them way more than all that flogging books nonsense. and bezos is mega wealthy because of the stock price of a tech company which investors think has amazing tech / ip that few can match. Investors actually want Amazon to start charging more for the likes of aws and making more profit, but bezos resists this.0 -
Let them eat worker's rights?FrancisUrquhart said:
So you are saying he should turn his warehouse business into a loss making enterprise?foxinsoxuk said:
Bezos is the richest man in the world, his Leics workers are paid minimum wage. If you cannot see why that is not a tolerable or sustainable state then I do not know where to start...FrancisUrquhart said:
I will repeat myself...foxinsoxuk said:
I entirely agree. There is a desperate need for effective unionisation of these private sector companies to rebalance with the rights of state employees. It should be a levelling up, not a levelling down.YellowSubmarine said:The paradox of strikes in post Thatcher Britain is that they are heavily concentrated in the parts of the economy that least need them. The figures are stark. Strike days are overwhelmingly the preserve of public services and faux privatised state monopolies like the railways. See a strike and you nearly always see a heavily unionised workforce with ( relatively ) strong employment terms working for a state service who's provider can be a influenced by alternative democratic means. And in the public sector strikes are often about resisting change rather than wage levels per se.
Rather like the paradox of Obesity and Smoking now being diseases of the poor not the rich Striking has been shunned by those that would most benefit and owned by those in the strongest position in the first place.
This is one reason the McDonalds strikes are the most interesting in years.
Increases in minimum wages, reductions in dependence on state subsidisation, and targetting of offshore profits are all policies that the Tory governments have spoken of, but I think Corbyn can deliver these so much more effectively.
Amazon may not declare a profit, but Bezos is now spoken of as possibly the richest man on the planet, while his workers in his Leics distribution centre slave on minimum wage and spartan conditions. It is a problem that needs addressing if capitalism is to survive.
McDonald's the corporate entity providing the "ethical" food etc don't own the restaurants that the workers are complaining about low pay in.
Amazon the retailer does make some money, but not much in having massive warehouses of product (and what they do make goes into expansion and technologicsl advances).
But Amazon isn't really a retailer at all, they are a tech company. For example their deal with netflixs makes them way more than all that flogging books nonsense. and bezos is mega wealthy because of the stock price of a tech company which investors think has amazing tech / ip that few can match. Investors actually want Amazon to start charging more for the likes of aws and making more profit, but bezos resists this.0 -
Nope, I am suggesting that some of his wealth made from his stock growth should be paid to his workers in the form of higher wages.FrancisUrquhart said:
So you are saying he should turn his warehouse business into a loss making enterprise?foxinsoxuk said:
Bezos is the richest man in the world, his Leics workers are paid minimum wage. If you cannot see why that is not a tolerable or sustainable state then I do not know where to start...FrancisUrquhart said:
I will repeat myself...foxinsoxuk said:
I entirely agree. There is a desperate need for effective unionisation of these private sector companies to rebalance with the rights of state employees. It should be a levelling up, not a levelling down.YellowSubmarine said:The paradox of strikes in post Thatcher Britain is that they are heavily concentrated in the parts of the economy that least need them. The figures are stark. Strike days are overwhelmingly the preserve of public services and faux privatised state monopolies like the railways. See a strike and you nearly always see a heavily unionised workforce with ( relatively ) strong employment terms working for a state service who's provider can be a influenced by alternative democratic means. And in the public sector strikes are often about resisting change rather than wage levels per se.
Rather like the paradox of Obesity and
This is one reason the McDonalds strikes are the most interesting in years.
Increases in minimum wages, reductions in dependence on state subsidisation, and targetting of offshore profits are all policies that the Tory governments have spoken of, but I think Corbyn can deliver these so much more effectively.
Amazon may not declare a profit, but Bezos is now spoken of as possibly the richest man on the planet, while his workers in his Leics distribution centre slave on minimum wage and spartan conditions. It is a problem that needs addressing if capitalism is to survive.
McDonald's the corporate entity providing the "ethical" food etc don't own the restaurants that the workers are complaining about low pay in.
Amazon the retailer does make some money, but not much in having massive warehouses of product (and what they do make goes into expansion and technologicsl advances).
But Amazon isn't really a retailer at all, they are a tech company. For example their deal with netflixs makes them way more than all that flogging books nonsense. and bezos is mega wealthy because of the stock price of a tech company which investors think has amazing tech / ip that few can match. Investors actually want Amazon to start charging more for the likes of aws and making more profit, but bezos resists this.0 -
Barmy-er!Pulpstar said:Barnier:.. not a U-turn,
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41151962
BUT, a clarification !0 -
For those that have forgotten the McLibel verdict:foxinsoxuk said:
I dont think McDonalds is a bad as some, but it is perhaps a reasonable place to start as it is so keen to maintain a cool image with its target demographic. McDonalds is frightened of tainting that reputation. It took a lot of time to get over the own goal of the Mclibel campaign.YellowSubmarine said:Also if you go to a McDonalds there are a number of counter intuitive ethical stances. Only British and Irish Beef, only Free Range Eggs, organic Milk, RSPCA approved Freedom Food status for it's Pork, only Chicken Breast meat, in-store recycling points and a no Landfill target, reuse f frying oil as biofuel...
There is an argument that striking workers are just marginally ahead of the management on the pay/ZHC issue. The Brand has clearly been engaging with many of these ethical issues for years. So why is low pay an anathema ?
"Specifically, Bell ruled McDonald's endangered the health of their workers and customers by "misleading advertising", and they "exploit children", that they were "culpably responsible" in the infliction of unnecessary cruelty to animals, and they were "antipathetic"[16] to unionisation and paid their workers low wages.[17] "
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/McLibel_case
I have one of the original leaflets somewhere, given to me outside the Tooting McDonalds in the Eighties.
These big brands are really quite vulnerable.0 -
And none of us yet know if Brexit populism has escaped the lab, though Corbyn's relative sucess in June gives a chilling indication. The Leave campaign sold Brexit as a Strike. We collectively act to restrict the supply of labour so our wages will go up. The fact the campaign was largely run by people that know that's ****** is neither here nor there. If you validate economic populism via an epochal national referendum why should the intellectual virus stay in the lab ? Why is " My wages are low because if immigrants " good but " my wages are low because of Fat Cats " bad ?
As ever too many right wing Brexiteers want to welch on the Faustian bargain they struck now they are enjoying the prize but the Devil has turned up to collect.
Don't tell anyone but I'm an economic liberal. 18 months ago I'd have told McDonalds workers that if your existing skills and experience mean you have to work at n McDonalds then the market rate is " fair ". Improve your skills and experience. It's the only way.
But now ? The Centre hasn't held. The liberal Atlas has Shrugged. Apparently there is a magic money tree after all. If angry pensioners in Skegness are the Yeomen of Agincourt for voting Leave why are angry youths from McDonalds communists for striking for better pay ?
Be careful what we wish for.0 -
Tonights you gov
Labour. 42
Cons. 41
Libs. 6
Ukip. 40 -
Isn't it time you joined the light side? I know you have reservations on macroeconomic policy, but FWIW I think McDonnell is hard-headed and has no wish to turn the first seriously left-wing government into a disaster. In other respects, might you like to be welcomed home?foxinsoxuk said:
I entirely agree. There is a desperate need for effective unionisation of these private sector companies to rebalance with the rights of state employees. It should be a levelling up, not a levelling down.
Increases in minimum wages, reductions in dependence on state subsidisation, and targetting of offshore profits are all policies that the Tory governments have spoken of, but I think Corbyn can deliver these so much more effectively.
Amazon may not declare a profit, but Bezos is now spoken of as possibly the richest man on the planet, while his workers in his Leics distribution centre slave on minimum wage and spartan conditions. It is a problem that needs addressing if capitalism is to survive.0 -
Very eloquently put. Populism is not a genie that will go back into the bottle, and now Corbyn rather than Farage is driving the wagon.YellowSubmarine said:And none of us yet know if Brexit populism has escaped the lab, though Corbyn's relative sucess in June gives a chilling indication. The Leave campaign sold Brexit as a Strike. We collectively act to restrict the supply of labour so our wages will go up. The fact the campaign was largely run by people that know that's ****** is neither here nor there. If you validate economic populism via an epochal national referendum why should the intellectual virus stay in the lab ? Why is " My wages are low because if immigrants " good but " my wages are low because of Fat Cats " bad ?
As ever too many right wing Brexiteers want to welch on the Faustian bargain they struck now they are enjoying the prize but the Devil has turned up to collect.
Don't tell anyone but I'm an economic liberal. 18 months ago I'd have told McDonalds workers that if your existing skills and experience mean you have to work at n McDonalds then the market rate is " fair ". Improve your skills and experience. It's the only way.
But now ? The Centre hasn't held. The liberal Atlas has Shrugged. Apparently there is a magic money tree after all. If angry pensioners in Skegness are the Yeomen of Agincourt for voting Leave why are angry youths from McDonalds communists for striking for better pay ?
Be careful what we wish for.0 -
Final point but McDonalds may actually need better paid workers to sustain it's recent turn around. Yes it's attempted to automate aspects of ordering but it's also introduced table service, in-store computers for customer browsing and a more upmarket menu.
In my experience it doesn't work because the staff haven't bought into it and all look miserable and hate their jobs. If McDonalds has had to attempt to go upmarket to halt falling sales isn't investment in staff part of that ?
And we've seen this in the supermarket industry. Despite the absolute carnage brought about by ALDI/LIDL at the bottom and M & S/Waitrose at the bottom the whole industry has seen big increases in basic pay.0 -
I left Labour over the Iraq war, and privatisation of the NHS. In many ways I departed stage left!NickPalmer said:
Isn't it time you joined the light side? I know you have reservations on macroeconomic policy, but FWIW I think McDonnell is hard-headed and has no wish to turn the first seriously left-wing government into a disaster. In other respects, might you like to be welcomed home?foxinsoxuk said:
I entirely agree. There is a desperate need for effective unionisation of these private sector companies to rebalance with the rights of state employees. It should be a levelling up, not a levelling down.
Increases in minimum wages, reductions in dependence on state subsidisation, and targetting of offshore profits are all policies that the Tory governments have spoken of, but I think Corbyn can deliver these so much more effectively.
Amazon may not declare a profit, but Bezos is now spoken of as possibly the richest man on the planet, while his workers in his Leics distribution centre slave on minimum wage and spartan conditions. It is a problem that needs addressing if capitalism is to survive.
As you may have gathered, I am a strong advocate of Trade Unions as the essential watchdogs on exploitative employers.
A balanced budget would clinch it. I hate debt.0 -
Balanced budgets are a feature of classical Marxist economics. (Deficits are an unearned transfer from Labour to Capital) IF McDonnell is a Marxist, he will deliver a balanced budget.foxinsoxuk said:
I left Labour over the Iraq war, and privatisation of the NHS. In many ways I departed stage left!NickPalmer said:
Isn't it time you joined the light side? I know you have reservations on macroeconomic policy, but FWIW I think McDonnell is hard-headed and has no wish to turn the first seriously left-wing government into a disaster. In other respects, might you like to be welcomed home?foxinsoxuk said:
I entirely agree. There is a desperate need for effective unionisation of these private sector companies to rebalance with the rights of state employees. It should be a levelling up, not a levelling down.
Increases in minimum wages, reductions in dependence on state subsidisation, and targetting of offshore profits are all policies that the Tory governments have spoken of, but I think Corbyn can deliver these so much more effectively.
Amazon may not declare a profit, but Bezos is now spoken of as possibly the richest man on the planet, while his workers in his Leics distribution centre slave on minimum wage and spartan conditions. It is a problem that needs addressing if capitalism is to survive.
As you may have gathered, I am a strong advocate of Trade Unions as the essential watchdogs on exploitative employers.
A balanced budget would clinch it. I hate debt.0 -
I believe that ALDI and Lidl both pay reasonably well for the sector and are good employers with a German sense of social responsibility. They make their savings in other areas.YellowSubmarine said:Final point but McDonalds may actually need better paid workers to sustain it's recent turn around. Yes it's attempted to automate aspects of ordering but it's also introduced table service, in-store computers for customer browsing and a more upmarket menu.
In my experience it doesn't work because the staff haven't bought into it and all look miserable and hate their jobs. If McDonalds has had to attempt to go upmarket to halt falling sales isn't investment in staff part of that ?
And we've seen this in the supermarket industry. Despite the absolute carnage brought about by ALDI/LIDL at the bottom and M & S/Waitrose at the bottom the whole industry has seen big increases in basic pay.
Loyalty goes both ways. Companies that look after their employees get looked after by their employees.
30 years ago, I did work for 3 months as a short order cook in a Wimpy Bar. It was hard work, and paid poorly (£1.65 ph wasn't much even in the Eighties). It was fun, and the camaraderie good. There were 20 of us, and the oldest 24. It was an interesting inverted society with the permanent staff all unqualified, and the summer staff all A level students off to University. I learnt many things, and saw firsthand a lot of life, including sexual harrassment, skiving, and stock shrinkage. It was an eyeopener.
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The two Koreas
As it stands, the top military option is just as likely to be a Special Operation against one to three key sites related to the missile development program than some kind of air or missile assault.
Its high risk but less overt than say shooting some missiles. Its also tough to retaliate against if its a ghost job.
Do not assume this would be purely a US venture either. The South Koreans are trained to do this.
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I had the misfortune to watch an hour of the X Factor on Sunday when visiting my mum. It's jaw dropping how Brexity it is. You could see Cowbell creaming himself at the prospect of a Leave vs Remain final between the vanilla rough trade Plaster and the talented, articulate, queer , Oxonian duo. It's always been there since the shows inception but they've really ramped it up and made it concious. Explicit back stories of powerlessness, pain, failure and unfulfilled potential. All to be redeemed by betting the lot on winning the X Factor. Entering as asking back control despite stacks of evidence even winning leads you nowhere. .
I think McDonalds needs to be seen through this prism. The strike almost certainly won't get through the Audition stage but folk don't care anymore. Narrative Donald Trumps Logic, economics and old paradigms.
So Good luck to the McDonald's workers. They'll need it of course because even if they win higher wages alone just feed the rentier class. But that's the kind of thing experts would tell you. No, self actualisation and control should be for everyone not just right wing atlanticist elites designing Referendum campaigns. Good Luck to them.0 -
Speaking of McDonald's, here's something to wind Morris Dancer up...
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2017/09/04/halo-could-be-used-to-show-who-is-leading-the-championship-todt0 -
Got soaked two days in a row during my little Scottish adventure - yesterday on Loch Lomond, and today in Edinburgh!
Anyway, managed to add (since Saturday) the following railway territory:
Carlisle to Glasgow Central
Glasgow Charing Cross to Balloch (via Anniesland)
Glasgow Subway (both directions!)
Charing Cross to Edinburgh Haymarket
York Place to Edinburgh Airport (Tram)
Haymarket to Glasgow Queen Street (via Falkirk High).
I think Tuesday's weather will be better - I hope
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I think the strike may well get nowhere, but the struggle will continue, as it did after Brunswick etc.YellowSubmarine said:I had the misfortune to watch an hour of the X Factor on Sunday when visiting my mum. It's jaw dropping how Brexity it is. You could see Cowbell creaming himself at the prospect of a Leave vs Remain final between the vanilla rough trade Plaster and the talented, articulate, queer , Oxonian duo. It's always been there since the shows inception but they've really ramped it up and made it concious. Explicit back stories of powerlessness, pain, failure and unfulfilled potential. All to be redeemed by betting the lot on winning the X Factor. Entering as asking back control despite stacks of evidence even winning leads you nowhere. .
I think McDonalds needs to be seen through this prism. The strike almost certainly won't get through the Audition stage but folk don't care anymore. Narrative Donald Trumps Logic, economics and old paradigms.
So Good luck to the McDonald's workers. They'll need it of course because even if they win higher wages alone just feed the rentier class. But that's the kind of thing experts would tell you. No, self actualisation and control should be for everyone not just right wing atlanticist elites designing Referendum campaigns. Good Luck to them.
There are plenty of non voters out there, pissed off how our political class has marginalised them. This sort of street level activism is what will get them engaged, rather than sterile Brexit debates.0 -
How much do the EU's Barmy-er and Juncker earn compared to a McDonald's worker?YellowSubmarine said:I had the misfortune to watch an hour of the X Factor on Sunday when visiting my mum. It's jaw dropping how Brexity it is. You could see Cowbell creaming himself at the prospect of a Leave vs Remain final between the vanilla rough trade Plaster and the talented, articulate, queer , Oxonian duo. It's always been there since the shows inception but they've really ramped it up and made it concious. Explicit back stories of powerlessness, pain, failure and unfulfilled potential. All to be redeemed by betting the lot on winning the X Factor. Entering as asking back control despite stacks of evidence even winning leads you nowhere. .
I think McDonalds needs to be seen through this prism. The strike almost certainly won't get through the Audition stage but folk don't care anymore. Narrative Donald Trumps Logic, economics and old paradigms.
So Good luck to the McDonald's workers. They'll need it of course because even if they win higher wages alone just feed the rentier class. But that's the kind of thing experts would tell you. No, self actualisation and control should be for everyone not just right wing atlanticist elites designing Referendum campaigns. Good Luck to them.0 -
Return of capital punishment.AlastairMeeks said:Theresa May needs to do something that will make the public revise the opinion that they've already formed of her. Since the opinion that they've formed of her is that she's too awkward, slow-thinking and out-of-touch, it's going to need to be pretty spectacular.
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As a middle class white man in Western Europe you don't need get it. You're already basking atop the ziggurat of structural privilege.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Royale, I'll never get identity politics. It's ridiculous.
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There was some speculation the autumn equinox timing of her Brexit intervention might herald some kind of pagan ritual sacrifice.Dura_Ace said:
Return of capital punishment.AlastairMeeks said:Theresa May needs to do something that will make the public revise the opinion that they've already formed of her. Since the opinion that they've formed of her is that she's too awkward, slow-thinking and out-of-touch, it's going to need to be pretty spectacular.
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Gerry Adams is going to make a "significant address" tomorrow morning. Some speculation he will resign. Perhaps he sees himself as an obstacle to bold solutions for Brexit.0
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Retiring comfortably?williamglenn said:Gerry Adams is going to make a "significant address" tomorrow morning. Some speculation he will resign. Perhaps he sees himself as an obstacle to bold solutions for Brexit.
http://www.irishnews.com/news/2017/09/05/news/new-book-labels-gerry-adams-a-millionaire--1127893/0
