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Likewise.Mexicanpete said:
I would like to add I am not in the 'converted' category although part of me thinks he personally owns the Brexit 'train wreck' and I wouldn't be averse to the ticking time bomb being handed to him!Beverley_C said:
Sometimes you can kill two birds with one stoneMexicanpete said:
Just this morning he gave Johnny Foreigner a spanking he won't forget in a hurry. Or are you suggesting he is merely grandstanding?Beverley_C said:
He is doing his job - securing his own position. What did you think his job was?Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Gin, manoeuvres*.
He's an oaf. The sentiment is fine, indeed, correct, but the Foreign Secretary is acting like candidate Boris. He's playing to the gallery when he should be doing his job.
Either way it seems to have worked, unless he is converting the previously converted?
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dixiedean said:
As well as the large number of Labour activists/posters visible in my area, the opposite was significant, too.
It was particularly galling to see gleeful tweets of local Tory MP and activists campaigning in Bishop Auckland, Blyth, Stockton, etc. (All lost). Everywhere other than their own constituency.
No wonder there were no posters. Why should anyone bother? The MP didn't appear in his own seat till the Tuesday before the vote.0 -
WRT The Tories & Labour, there is practically no electoral bias in the system right now. A UNS towards Labour (Of 1.15% to equal vote shares) would leave them as a slightly smaller party, but due to the SNP's improved position* it means they are in a superior position to provide the PM on equal vote shares.stevef said:
Corbyn will get a similar youth vote next time -no doubt still piling up votes in existing seats -but it is unlikely that the Tories will have the same leader, or that any of the other above mentioned conditions will be repeated.
*A collapse in the SNP would benefit SLAB more than SCON, so the prognosis for next PM doesn't change.
It'd be a weak government mind with support from BOTH the SNP and the Lib Dems needed as things stand. Certainly more shaky than the Con-DUP arrangement.
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A swing of 0.5% would have delivered a Conservative majority. A swing of 1% would have delivered a working majority.
Given such a tight outcome, one can say that Labour's ground game deprived the Conservatives of their majority, but then, so did any one of the numerous errors in the Conservatives' campaign.0 -
Absolutely correct. Tory MPs in Gloucestershire flocked to Cheltenham, including the MP for Stroud. The nay seat in the county to change hands - Stroud, where the Labour tsunami went undetected until too late.0
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Only Scottish Labour gains from the Conservatives matter. If they gain from the SNP, it makes no difference to their prospect of forming a government.Pulpstar said:
WRT The Tories & Labour, there is practically no electoral bias in the system right now. A UNS towards Labour (Of 1.15% to equal vote shares) would leave them as a slightly smaller party, but due to the SNP's improved position* it means they are in a superior position to provide the PM on equal vote shares.stevef said:
Corbyn will get a similar youth vote next time -no doubt still piling up votes in existing seats -but it is unlikely that the Tories will have the same leader, or that any of the other above mentioned conditions will be repeated.
*A collapse in the SNP would benefit SLAB more than SCON, so the prognosis for next PM doesn't change.
It'd be a weak government mind with support from BOTH the SNP and the Lib Dems needed as things stand. Certainly more shaky than the Con-DUP arrangement.0 -
Where I live (rock solid Tory seat) you would not have thought that there was an election happening. The MP's majority declined from 13,000 to 6,000 with almost no posters, meetings, canvassing or other voter interaction. I guess we are taken for granted here.dixiedean said:As well as the large number of Labour activists/posters visible in my area, the opposite was significant, too.
It was particularly galling to see gleeful tweets of local Tory MP and activists campaigning in Bishop Auckland, Blyth, Stockton, etc. (All lost). Everywhere other than their own constituency.
No wonder there were no posters. Why should anyone bother? The MP didn't appear in his own seat till the Tuesday before the vote.0 -
Worst campaign in history? Is that why the Tories still managed to out-poll Corbyn and win more seats?0
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Institute for Government chart and on U.K. vs EU citizens proposals:
https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/brexit-explained/citizens-rights
Looks like there needs to be a little movement on both sides0 -
I'm staggered how close the LibDems came in Cheltenham.Sean_F said:
In fairness, campaigning in Cheltenham made sense.madmacs said:Absolutely correct. Tory MPs in Gloucestershire flocked to Cheltenham, including the MP for Stroud. The nay seat in the county to change hands - Stroud, where the Labour tsunami went undetected until too late.
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It does if they don't want to rely on the SNP to form a government!Sean_F said:
Only Scottish Labour gains from the Conservatives matter. If they gain from the SNP, it makes no difference to their prospect of forming a government.Pulpstar said:
WRT The Tories & Labour, there is practically no electoral bias in the system right now. A UNS towards Labour (Of 1.15% to equal vote shares) would leave them as a slightly smaller party, but due to the SNP's improved position* it means they are in a superior position to provide the PM on equal vote shares.stevef said:
Corbyn will get a similar youth vote next time -no doubt still piling up votes in existing seats -but it is unlikely that the Tories will have the same leader, or that any of the other above mentioned conditions will be repeated.
*A collapse in the SNP would benefit SLAB more than SCON, so the prognosis for next PM doesn't change.
It'd be a weak government mind with support from BOTH the SNP and the Lib Dems needed as things stand. Certainly more shaky than the Con-DUP arrangement.0 -
The UK and EU proposals aren't actually that far apart.CarlottaVance said:Institute for Government chart and on U.K. vs EU citizens proposals:
https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/brexit-explained/citizens-rights
Looks like there needs to be a little movement on both sides0 -
Yes you keep making the same point with your false bar charts.But you fail to understand or( rather just taking the piss).That when you call an unnecessary election as you already have a majority then with a 20% poll lead you go onto have a minority government it is hardly a success.Sunil_Prasannan said:Worst campaign in history? Is that why the Tories still managed to out-poll Corbyn and win more seats?
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Is Donald Trump Jr admitting to potentially unwise activity live on Twitter?0
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58% remain constituency, I had a small (PP ltd stakes of £1.20 or so) punt on the Lib Dems at 9-1 here which I was happy with.rcs1000 said:
I'm staggered how close the LibDems came in Cheltenham.Sean_F said:
In fairness, campaigning in Cheltenham made sense.madmacs said:Absolutely correct. Tory MPs in Gloucestershire flocked to Cheltenham, including the MP for Stroud. The nay seat in the county to change hands - Stroud, where the Labour tsunami went undetected until too late.
The one surprising result from the Southwest for me was how close St Ives was, and also Eastbourne.
I personally thought Lewes might be the 2nd LD Gain in the region after Bath.0 -
Galway West?Beverley_C said:
Where I live (rock solid Tory seat) ...dixiedean said:As well as the large number of Labour activists/posters visible in my area, the opposite was significant, too.
It was particularly galling to see gleeful tweets of local Tory MP and activists campaigning in Bishop Auckland, Blyth, Stockton, etc. (All lost). Everywhere other than their own constituency.
No wonder there were no posters. Why should anyone bother? The MP didn't appear in his own seat till the Tuesday before the vote.
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The dirty little secret about the Brexit negotiations is that on money and citizens rights, the EU and the UK are very close to agreement.RobD said:
The UK and EU proposals aren't actually that far apart.CarlottaVance said:Institute for Government chart and on U.K. vs EU citizens proposals:
https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/brexit-explained/citizens-rights
Looks like there needs to be a little movement on both sides
The difficult issues are going to be the trade negotiations, keeping a "frictionless" border in Ireland, electronic freight manifests so as to minimise customs checks, and fishing.0 -
More Remain claims in tatters:
https://order-order.com/2017/07/11/aldi-creates-4000-new-jobs-despitebrexit/0 -
Part of the plan is not to tell Boris.Scott_P said:0 -
Cheap food but no medicines, eh?nigel4england said:More Remain claims in tatters:
https://order-order.com/2017/07/11/aldi-creates-4000-new-jobs-despitebrexit/0 -
The YouGov poll got St Ives almost exactly right.Pulpstar said:
58% remain constituency, I had a small (PP ltd stakes of £1.20 or so) punt on the Lib Dems at 9-1 here which I was happy with.rcs1000 said:
I'm staggered how close the LibDems came in Cheltenham.Sean_F said:
In fairness, campaigning in Cheltenham made sense.madmacs said:Absolutely correct. Tory MPs in Gloucestershire flocked to Cheltenham, including the MP for Stroud. The nay seat in the county to change hands - Stroud, where the Labour tsunami went undetected until too late.
The one surprising result from the Southwest for me was how close St Ives was, and also Eastbourne.
I personally thought Lewes might be the 2nd LD Gain in the region after Bath.0 -
Exactly.OldKingCole said:
Cheap food but no medicines, eh?nigel4england said:More Remain claims in tatters:
https://order-order.com/2017/07/11/aldi-creates-4000-new-jobs-despitebrexit/
We can stuff ourselves silly but will die a painful death.
Idiot.0 -
One point to note. For months in advance of the general election, the Conservatives' performance in local by-elections had been decidedly ho-hum. This was dismissed as irrelevant by those pbers who were uber-loyalist to the blue cause. But it seems to have foreshadowed a lack of enthusiasm for the Conservative cause that proved to be important when their campaign was put under strain.0
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I was surprised by Conservative losses in Kensington, Canterbury, Battersea, Stroud, Portsmouth South, Crewe & Nantwich, Reading East, Warwick & Leamington, Peterborough, Stockton South, Colne Valley, High Peak, Derby North, and Lincoln. I was also surprised by their failure to gain Chester, Newcastle under Lyme, Halifax, and Birmingham Erdington.Pulpstar said:
58% remain constituency, I had a small (PP ltd stakes of £1.20 or so) punt on the Lib Dems at 9-1 here which I was happy with.rcs1000 said:
I'm staggered how close the LibDems came in Cheltenham.Sean_F said:
In fairness, campaigning in Cheltenham made sense.madmacs said:Absolutely correct. Tory MPs in Gloucestershire flocked to Cheltenham, including the MP for Stroud. The nay seat in the county to change hands - Stroud, where the Labour tsunami went undetected until too late.
The one surprising result from the Southwest for me was how close St Ives was, and also Eastbourne.
I personally thought Lewes might be the 2nd LD Gain in the region after Bath.
As against that, I had thought that the Conservatives would be vulnerable in St. Albans, and some of the seats down the M3 and M4 corridors that voted Remain.0 -
That doesn't fit with the results of the actual local elections though, does it?AlastairMeeks said:One point to note. For months in advance of the general election, the Conservatives' performance in local by-elections had been decidedly ho-hum. This was dismissed as irrelevant by those pbers who were uber-loyalist to the blue cause. But it seems to have foreshadowed a lack of enthusiasm for the Conservative cause that proved to be important when their campaign was put under strain.
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@iainjwatson: Asked about Boris's 'no plan for no deal' no10 says planning for all eventualities is taking place across govt0
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Makes a change from before the referendumScott_P said:@iainjwatson: Asked about Boris's 'no plan for no deal' no10 says planning for all eventualities is taking place across govt
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But then came Copeland, and the Conservatives' local by-election performance was transformed, and the local elections in May were excellent.AlastairMeeks said:One point to note. For months in advance of the general election, the Conservatives' performance in local by-elections had been decidedly ho-hum. This was dismissed as irrelevant by those pbers who were uber-loyalist to the blue cause. But it seems to have foreshadowed a lack of enthusiasm for the Conservative cause that proved to be important when their campaign was put under strain.
Even if leads of 20% were froth, I think the Conservatives really were leading by double digits at the start of the campaign, and then threw it away.0 -
Do all the youngsters who voted Labour know that Corbyn wants to shut down Uber?0
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The curious thing about the locals vs the GE, to me, was that the LDs did very well in vote share in the locals, but disastrously in terms of seats. In the GE, that was reversed: they did disastrously in terms of vote share, but very well in terms of seats.Sean_F said:
But then came Copeland, and the Conservatives' local by-election performance was transformed, and the local elections in May were excellent.AlastairMeeks said:One point to note. For months in advance of the general election, the Conservatives' performance in local by-elections had been decidedly ho-hum. This was dismissed as irrelevant by those pbers who were uber-loyalist to the blue cause. But it seems to have foreshadowed a lack of enthusiasm for the Conservative cause that proved to be important when their campaign was put under strain.
Even if leads of 20% were froth, I think the Conservatives really were leading by double digits at the start of the campaign, and then threw it away.0 -
If the Conservatives were operating a functioning government, it would be the only topic of discussion on social media today.Richard_Nabavi said:Do all the youngsters who voted Labour know that Corbyn wants to shut down Uber?
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It's amazing.Scott_P said:Is Donald Trump Jr admitting to potentially unwise activity live on Twitter?
The case for Trump's defence is now:
Yes the Russians did hack Hilary's campaign. And yes we went to meetings and tried to collude to subvert democracy. But we met the wrong Russians who didn't have useful information so we were unsuccessful.0 -
Source?Richard_Nabavi said:Do all the youngsters who voted Labour know that Corbyn wants to shut down Uber?
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12 seats is a good return for 7.6%, but it's still pretty dismal.rcs1000 said:
The curious thing about the locals vs the GE, to me, was that the LDs did very well in vote share in the locals, but disastrously in terms of seats. In the GE, that was reversed: they did disastrously in terms of vote share, but very well in terms of seats.Sean_F said:
But then came Copeland, and the Conservatives' local by-election performance was transformed, and the local elections in May were excellent.AlastairMeeks said:One point to note. For months in advance of the general election, the Conservatives' performance in local by-elections had been decidedly ho-hum. This was dismissed as irrelevant by those pbers who were uber-loyalist to the blue cause. But it seems to have foreshadowed a lack of enthusiasm for the Conservative cause that proved to be important when their campaign was put under strain.
Even if leads of 20% were froth, I think the Conservatives really were leading by double digits at the start of the campaign, and then threw it away.
The number of realistic targets for the Lib Dems has fallen. Some of the Tory majorities in seats that were recently held by the Lib Dems, or were very marginal, are now enormous,0 -
A lot of the "youngsters" who voted Labour will be people who work for some of these exploitative Uber-type employers, or have friends who work for them, or fear they're going to end up having to work for them due to a lack of decent jobs with the way things are going.0
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I was schooled in the LibDem style of barchartsYorkcity said:
Yes you keep making the same point with your false bar charts.But you fail to understand or( rather just taking the piss).That when you call an unnecessary election as you already have a majority then with a 20% poll lead you go onto have a minority government it is hardly a success.Sunil_Prasannan said:Worst campaign in history? Is that why the Tories still managed to out-poll Corbyn and win more seats?
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The EU seems to be quite schizophrenic when it comes to the status of the UK post-Brexit:RobD said:
The UK and EU proposals aren't actually that far apart.CarlottaVance said:Institute for Government chart and on U.K. vs EU citizens proposals:
https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/brexit-explained/citizens-rights
Looks like there needs to be a little movement on both sides
Trade: 'Third country'
Citizens: 'Vassal state'0 -
Scott_P said:
Mrs May's fault, obviously....0 -
Hell, the LibDems aren't even the challengers in a lot of those seats anymore.Sean_F said:
12 seats is a good return for 7.6%, but it's still pretty dismal.rcs1000 said:
The curious thing about the locals vs the GE, to me, was that the LDs did very well in vote share in the locals, but disastrously in terms of seats. In the GE, that was reversed: they did disastrously in terms of vote share, but very well in terms of seats.Sean_F said:
But then came Copeland, and the Conservatives' local by-election performance was transformed, and the local elections in May were excellent.AlastairMeeks said:One point to note. For months in advance of the general election, the Conservatives' performance in local by-elections had been decidedly ho-hum. This was dismissed as irrelevant by those pbers who were uber-loyalist to the blue cause. But it seems to have foreshadowed a lack of enthusiasm for the Conservative cause that proved to be important when their campaign was put under strain.
Even if leads of 20% were froth, I think the Conservatives really were leading by double digits at the start of the campaign, and then threw it away.
The number of realistic targets for the Lib Dems has fallen. Some of the Tory majorities in seats that were recently held by the Lib Dems, or were very marginal, are now enormous,
I was astonished in the last thread to see that Labour are now second in Newton Abbot.0 -
The Russian subversion was SO successful that Hillary actually WON the popular voterkrkrk said:
It's amazing.Scott_P said:Is Donald Trump Jr admitting to potentially unwise activity live on Twitter?
The case for Trump's defence is now:
Yes the Russians did hack Hilary's campaign. And yes we went to meetings and tried to collude to subvert democracy. But we met the wrong Russians who didn't have useful information so we were unsuccessful.
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Miss Vance, sounds like assets and liabilities. All the assets belong to the EU, all the liabilities are shared and the UK has to pay up.0
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Oh whether it was successful or not is hardly the point...Sunil_Prasannan said:
The Russian subversion was SO successful that Hillary actually WON the popular voterkrkrk said:
It's amazing.Scott_P said:Is Donald Trump Jr admitting to potentially unwise activity live on Twitter?
The case for Trump's defence is now:
Yes the Russians did hack Hilary's campaign. And yes we went to meetings and tried to collude to subvert democracy. But we met the wrong Russians who didn't have useful information so we were unsuccessful.
The point is that working with a hostile country to spy on your opponents is wrong!0 -
Actually that seems to be Trump Jr's defence.rkrkrk said:It's amazing.
The case for Trump's defence is now:
Yes the Russians did hack Hilary's campaign. And yes we went to meetings and tried to collude to subvert democracy. But we met the wrong Russians who didn't have useful information so we were unsuccessful.
I think Trump Sr is still claiming "I didn't know about it"0 -
@TomGilbart: Conference
Lawyer: The evidence is strong
Trump Jr: I can PROVE I didn't do it
Lawyer: How?
Trump Jr: This email in which I confess0 -
For better or worse, Labour is currently an experiment in mass membership in the modern era where such things were supposed to be redundant. There was a lot of talk before the campaign about how useless the new members were at actually doing stuff, but when it counted they turned out, in the face of the most discouraging opinion polls that I've ever seen. They've also changed the funding model - the party is nowhere near as rich as the Tories, but it's less dependent on the unions and a few major donors. Politics aside, that seems a healthy development, and perhaps any Tory recovery plan needs to include some serious recruitment.
The Tory campaign did seem to include really massive funding of phone canvassing - even in my safe Labour seat of Nottingham North., Labour voters grumbled that they were being called repeatedly by Tory phone banks (which seems odd anyway - we generally take "no" for an answer when canvassing and hope the voter forgets the whole thing). Presumably the hasty campaign meant this wasn't being well coordinated and they just gave direct phoning companies a script and a million numbers and told them to get on with it.0 -
Euratom includes Switzerland as an "associate".CarlottaVance said:0 -
Maybe the Russians actually wanted Hillary to win?rkrkrk said:
Oh whether it was successful or not is hardly the point...Sunil_Prasannan said:
The Russian subversion was SO successful that Hillary actually WON the popular voterkrkrk said:
It's amazing.Scott_P said:Is Donald Trump Jr admitting to potentially unwise activity live on Twitter?
The case for Trump's defence is now:
Yes the Russians did hack Hilary's campaign. And yes we went to meetings and tried to collude to subvert democracy. But we met the wrong Russians who didn't have useful information so we were unsuccessful.
The point is that working with a hostile country to spy on your opponents is wrong!0 -
From dictionary.comScott_P said:
look up retweet...GeoffM said:You retweet every other f*cking thing from there.
retweet
riːˈtwiːt/
verb
1.
repost or forward (a message posted by another user).
"tweet any crap you like; Scott_P will retweet it on PB.com"
noun
1.
a reposted or forwarded message from Twitter.
"politicalbetting.com was quickly flooded with shite retweets"0 -
Davis: If American banks want to relocate to Paris or Frankfurt good luck to them.0
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Newton Abbot marks my (currently) most westward advance down the Southwest Main Line railway (since October).Danny565 said:
Hell, the LibDems aren't even the challengers in a lot of those seats anymore.Sean_F said:
12 seats is a good return for 7.6%, but it's still pretty dismal.rcs1000 said:
The curious thing about the locals vs the GE, to me, was that the LDs did very well in vote share in the locals, but disastrously in terms of seats. In the GE, that was reversed: they did disastrously in terms of vote share, but very well in terms of seats.Sean_F said:
But then came Copeland, and the Conservatives' local by-election performance was transformed, and the local elections in May were excellent.AlastairMeeks said:One point to note. For months in advance of the general election, the Conservatives' performance in local by-elections had been decidedly ho-hum. This was dismissed as irrelevant by those pbers who were uber-loyalist to the blue cause. But it seems to have foreshadowed a lack of enthusiasm for the Conservative cause that proved to be important when their campaign was put under strain.
Even if leads of 20% were froth, I think the Conservatives really were leading by double digits at the start of the campaign, and then threw it away.
The number of realistic targets for the Lib Dems has fallen. Some of the Tory majorities in seats that were recently held by the Lib Dems, or were very marginal, are now enormous,
I was astonished in the last thread to see that Labour are now second in Newton Abbot.0 -
Fair pointScott_P said:
Actually that seems to be Trump Jr's defence.rkrkrk said:It's amazing.
The case for Trump's defence is now:
Yes the Russians did hack Hilary's campaign. And yes we went to meetings and tried to collude to subvert democracy. But we met the wrong Russians who didn't have useful information so we were unsuccessful.
I think Trump Sr is still claiming "I didn't know about it"0 -
Think you're confused.... Or trying to confuse me.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Maybe the Russians actually wanted Hillary to win?rkrkrk said:
Oh whether it was successful or not is hardly the point...Sunil_Prasannan said:
The Russian subversion was SO successful that Hillary actually WON the popular voterkrkrk said:
It's amazing.Scott_P said:Is Donald Trump Jr admitting to potentially unwise activity live on Twitter?
The case for Trump's defence is now:
Yes the Russians did hack Hilary's campaign. And yes we went to meetings and tried to collude to subvert democracy. But we met the wrong Russians who didn't have useful information so we were unsuccessful.
The point is that working with a hostile country to spy on your opponents is wrong!0 -
No the Russians wanted Trump but there is an additional reason rarely mentioned -- Trump hates China. There are decades old videos of Trump blaming China for the fall of America. And China is a huge military and economic threat to Russia.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Maybe the Russians actually wanted Hillary to win?rkrkrk said:
Oh whether it was successful or not is hardly the point...Sunil_Prasannan said:
The Russian subversion was SO successful that Hillary actually WON the popular voterkrkrk said:
It's amazing.Scott_P said:Is Donald Trump Jr admitting to potentially unwise activity live on Twitter?
The case for Trump's defence is now:
Yes the Russians did hack Hilary's campaign. And yes we went to meetings and tried to collude to subvert democracy. But we met the wrong Russians who didn't have useful information so we were unsuccessful.
The point is that working with a hostile country to spy on your opponents is wrong!0 -
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I suspect they are unlikely whereas on current trends [ which of course may change] there are 5/6 more potential Scon gains from a weaker SNP.Sean_F said:
Only Scottish Labour gains from the Conservatives matter. If they gain from the SNP, it makes no difference to their prospect of forming a government.Pulpstar said:
WRT The Tories & Labour, there is practically no electoral bias in the system right now. A UNS towards Labour (Of 1.15% to equal vote shares) would leave them as a slightly smaller party, but due to the SNP's improved position* it means they are in a superior position to provide the PM on equal vote shares.stevef said:
Corbyn will get a similar youth vote next time -no doubt still piling up votes in existing seats -but it is unlikely that the Tories will have the same leader, or that any of the other above mentioned conditions will be repeated.
*A collapse in the SNP would benefit SLAB more than SCON, so the prognosis for next PM doesn't change.
It'd be a weak government mind with support from BOTH the SNP and the Lib Dems needed as things stand. Certainly more shaky than the Con-DUP arrangement.0 -
Easy: The Russians used their evil mind-control ray to befuddle the US electorate, forcing them to give Hillary the popular vote.rkrkrk said:
Think you're confused.... Or trying to confuse me.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Maybe the Russians actually wanted Hillary to win?rkrkrk said:
Oh whether it was successful or not is hardly the point...Sunil_Prasannan said:
The Russian subversion was SO successful that Hillary actually WON the popular voterkrkrk said:
It's amazing.Scott_P said:Is Donald Trump Jr admitting to potentially unwise activity live on Twitter?
The case for Trump's defence is now:
Yes the Russians did hack Hilary's campaign. And yes we went to meetings and tried to collude to subvert democracy. But we met the wrong Russians who didn't have useful information so we were unsuccessful.
The point is that working with a hostile country to spy on your opponents is wrong!0 -
As well as West Devon, Totnes, St. Austell, SE Cornwall, Camborne.Danny565 said:
Hell, the LibDems aren't even the challengers in a lot of those seats anymore.Sean_F said:
12 seats is a good return for 7.6%, but it's still pretty dismal.rcs1000 said:
The curious thing about the locals vs the GE, to me, was that the LDs did very well in vote share in the locals, but disastrously in terms of seats. In the GE, that was reversed: they did disastrously in terms of vote share, but very well in terms of seats.Sean_F said:
But then came Copeland, and the Conservatives' local by-election performance was transformed, and the local elections in May were excellent.AlastairMeeks said:One point to note. For months in advance of the general election, the Conservatives' performance in local by-elections had been decidedly ho-hum. This was dismissed as irrelevant by those pbers who were uber-loyalist to the blue cause. But it seems to have foreshadowed a lack of enthusiasm for the Conservative cause that proved to be important when their campaign was put under strain.
Even if leads of 20% were froth, I think the Conservatives really were leading by double digits at the start of the campaign, and then threw it away.
The number of realistic targets for the Lib Dems has fallen. Some of the Tory majorities in seats that were recently held by the Lib Dems, or were very marginal, are now enormous,
I was astonished in the last thread to see that Labour are now second in Newton Abbot.0 -
The Tories need to change just about everything. But that said, after an election with worst leader ever, the worst campaign in the history of elections and the most appalling manifesto ever written they still just managed to scrape it!Sean_F said:
In fairness, campaigning in Cheltenham made sense.madmacs said:Absolutely correct. Tory MPs in Gloucestershire flocked to Cheltenham, including the MP for Stroud. The nay seat in the county to change hands - Stroud, where the Labour tsunami went undetected until too late.
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@juliamacfarlane: One freelance journalist despairs over Don Jr's smoking gun tweet: https://twitter.com/JYSexton/status/8847993236068474890
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It is strange that it was the ABC1 group that were taken in by the offer of free stuff and a magic money tree in the Labour manifesto - not the C2 DE group.
Is this poor numeracy amongst the professional class the result of poor education during the Blair years?0 -
I suspect that’s the EU effect. The SW, in spite of having some massive grants was very anti EU.Sean_F said:
As well as West Devon, Totnes, St. Austell, SE Cornwall, Camborne.Danny565 said:
Hell, the LibDems aren't even the challengers in a lot of those seats anymore.Sean_F said:
12 seats is a good return for 7.6%, but it's still pretty dismal.rcs1000 said:
The curious thing about the locals vs the GE, to me, was that the LDs did very well in vote share in the locals, but disastrously in terms of seats. In the GE, that was reversed: they did disastrously in terms of vote share, but very well in terms of seats.Sean_F said:
But then came Copeland, and the Conservatives' local by-election performance was transformed, and the local elections in May were excellent.AlastairMeeks said:One point to note. For months in advance of the general election, the Conservatives' performance in local by-elections had been decidedly ho-hum. This was dismissed as irrelevant by those pbers who were uber-loyalist to the blue cause. But it seems to have foreshadowed a lack of enthusiasm for the Conservative cause that proved to be important when their campaign was put under strain.
Even if leads of 20% were froth, I think the Conservatives really were leading by double digits at the start of the campaign, and then threw it away.
The number of realistic targets for the Lib Dems has fallen. Some of the Tory majorities in seats that were recently held by the Lib Dems, or were very marginal, are now enormous,
I was astonished in the last thread to see that Labour are now second in Newton Abbot.
Whether that will last or whether we’ve seen a permanent shift I’ll leave others to judge.0 -
The Conservatives have trashed their own reputation for sober government. Once they had done that, why wouldn't people vote for what they most liked the sound of, regardless of the cost?David_Evershed said:It is strange that it was the ABC1 group that were taken in by the offer of free stuff and a magic money tree in the Labour manifesto - not the C2 DE group.
Is this poor numeracy amongst the professional class the result of poor education during the Blair years?0 -
Our atomSunil_Prasannan said:
Euratom includes Switzerland as an "associate".CarlottaVance said:
Your atom
Their atom
Progression.
0 -
The EU as a whole is a net contributor to EU coffers.OldKingCole said:
I suspect that’s the EU effect. The SW, in spite of having some massive grants was very anti EU.Sean_F said:
As well as West Devon, Totnes, St. Austell, SE Cornwall, Camborne.Danny565 said:
Hell, the LibDems aren't even the challengers in a lot of those seats anymore.Sean_F said:
12 seats is a good return for 7.6%, but it's still pretty dismal.rcs1000 said:
The curious thing about the locals vs the GE, to me, was that the LDs did very well in vote share in the locals, but disastrously in terms of seats. In the GE, that was reversed: they did disastrously in terms of vote share, but very well in terms of seats.Sean_F said:
But then came Copeland, and the Conservatives' local by-election performance was transformed, and the local elections in May were excellent.AlastairMeeks said:One point to note. For months in advance of the general election, the Conservatives' performance in local by-elections had been decidedly ho-hum. This was dismissed as irrelevant by those pbers who were uber-loyalist to the blue cause. But it seems to have foreshadowed a lack of enthusiasm for the Conservative cause that proved to be important when their campaign was put under strain.
Even if leads of 20% were froth, I think the Conservatives really were leading by double digits at the start of the campaign, and then threw it away.
The number of realistic targets for the Lib Dems has fallen. Some of the Tory majorities in seats that were recently held by the Lib Dems, or were very marginal, are now enormous,
I was astonished in the last thread to see that Labour are now second in Newton Abbot.
Whether that will last or whether we’ve seen a permanent shift I’ll leave others to judge.0 -
Because the IMF looms when governments can no longer borrow in the debt markets?AlastairMeeks said:
The Conservatives have trashed their own reputation for sober government. Once they had done that, why wouldn't people vote for what they most liked the sound of, regardless of the cost?David_Evershed said:It is strange that it was the ABC1 group that were taken in by the offer of free stuff and a magic money tree in the Labour manifesto - not the C2 DE group.
Is this poor numeracy amongst the professional class the result of poor education during the Blair years?0 -
That assumes a coherence and will from the government that has been entirely absent up until now. They claim, as far as I can tell genuinely, that something will turn up. Boris Johnson as recently as today.Beverley_C said:
Yes are we.TOPPING said:I mean are we really going to crash out on WTO?
No can't see it.
The govt is going to carry on twaddling away in fantasy mode about the various Brexit types and arguing about the divorce bill and EU citizens until it runs out of time and we WTO out.
Then they can moan about the Europeans setting unreasonable timetables and holding things up ("Not our fault Gov'nor"), the EU / UK citizens' standing will still need sorting, no divorce money will have been paid and we will be out.
I disagree. The positions on citizens' rights are quite far apart. It doesn't mean they won't be bridged.RobD said:
The UK and EU proposals aren't actually that far apart.CarlottaVance said:Institute for Government chart and on U.K. vs EU citizens proposals:
https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/brexit-explained/citizens-rights
Looks like there needs to be a little movement on both sides0 -
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/world/national-security/obama-orders-review-of-russian-hacking-during-presidential-campaign/2016/12/09/31d6b300-be2a-11e6-94ac-3d324840106c_story.htmlSunil_Prasannan said:
Easy: The Russians used their evil mind-control ray to befuddle the US electorate, forcing them to give Hillary the popular vote.rkrkrk said:
Think you're confused.... Or trying to confuse me.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Maybe the Russians actually wanted Hillary to win?rkrkrk said:
Oh whether it was successful or not is hardly the point...Sunil_Prasannan said:
The Russian subversion was SO successful that Hillary actually WON the popular voterkrkrk said:
It's amazing.Scott_P said:Is Donald Trump Jr admitting to potentially unwise activity live on Twitter?
The case for Trump's defence is now:
Yes the Russians did hack Hilary's campaign. And yes we went to meetings and tried to collude to subvert democracy. But we met the wrong Russians who didn't have useful information so we were unsuccessful.
The point is that working with a hostile country to spy on your opponents is wrong!0 -
I think there was a close correlation in the SW between strong Conservative performances and support for Brexit. Cornwall, rural Devon (and working class Plymouth) rural Dorset and Somerset, mostly gave storming results to the Conservatives. Exeter, student Plymouth, Bath, and Bristol all shifted heavily Left.OldKingCole said:
I suspect that’s the EU effect. The SW, in spite of having some massive grants was very anti EU.Sean_F said:
As well as West Devon, Totnes, St. Austell, SE Cornwall, Camborne.Danny565 said:
Hell, the LibDems aren't even the challengers in a lot of those seats anymore.Sean_F said:
12 seats is a good return for 7.6%, but it's still pretty dismal.rcs1000 said:
The curious thing about the locals vs the GE, to me, was that the LDs did very well in vote share in the locals, but disastrously in terms of seats. In the GE, that was reversed: they did disastrously in terms of vote share, but very well in terms of seats.Sean_F said:
But then came Copeland, and the Conservatives' local by-election performance was transformed, and the local elections in May were excellent.AlastairMeeks said:One point to note. For months in advance of the general election, the Conservatives' performance in local by-elections had been decidedly ho-hum. This was dismissed as irrelevant by those pbers who were uber-loyalist to the blue cause. But it seems to have foreshadowed a lack of enthusiasm for the Conservative cause that proved to be important when their campaign was put under strain.
Even if leads of 20% were froth, I think the Conservatives really were leading by double digits at the start of the campaign, and then threw it away.
The number of realistic targets for the Lib Dems has fallen. Some of the Tory majorities in seats that were recently held by the Lib Dems, or were very marginal, are now enormous,
I was astonished in the last thread to see that Labour are now second in Newton Abbot.
Whether that will last or whether we’ve seen a permanent shift I’ll leave others to judge.0 -
I refer you to my first point. Once the Conservatives had decided to pursue extreme Brexit, anyone not in favour of that is up for grabs. You might as well drink yourself to death instead of being strung up by your genitals.David_Evershed said:
Because the IMF looms when governments can no longer borrow in the debt markets?AlastairMeeks said:
The Conservatives have trashed their own reputation for sober government. Once they had done that, why wouldn't people vote for what they most liked the sound of, regardless of the cost?David_Evershed said:It is strange that it was the ABC1 group that were taken in by the offer of free stuff and a magic money tree in the Labour manifesto - not the C2 DE group.
Is this poor numeracy amongst the professional class the result of poor education during the Blair years?0 -
If this hacking occurred, how come Hillary won the popular vote?rkrkrk said:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/world/national-security/obama-orders-review-of-russian-hacking-during-presidential-campaign/2016/12/09/31d6b300-be2a-11e6-94ac-3d324840106c_story.htmlSunil_Prasannan said:
Easy: The Russians used their evil mind-control ray to befuddle the US electorate, forcing them to give Hillary the popular vote.rkrkrk said:
Think you're confused.... Or trying to confuse me.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Maybe the Russians actually wanted Hillary to win?rkrkrk said:
Oh whether it was successful or not is hardly the point...Sunil_Prasannan said:
The Russian subversion was SO successful that Hillary actually WON the popular voterkrkrk said:
It's amazing.Scott_P said:Is Donald Trump Jr admitting to potentially unwise activity live on Twitter?
The case for Trump's defence is now:
Yes the Russians did hack Hilary's campaign. And yes we went to meetings and tried to collude to subvert democracy. But we met the wrong Russians who didn't have useful information so we were unsuccessful.
The point is that working with a hostile country to spy on your opponents is wrong!0 -
Which train were you on when you wrote that? Obviously a very shaky one!Sunil_Prasannan said:
The EU as a whole is a net contributor to EU coffers.OldKingCole said:
I suspect that’s the EU effect. The SW, in spite of having some massive grants was very anti EU.Sean_F said:
As well as West Devon, Totnes, St. Austell, SE Cornwall, Camborne.Danny565 said:
Hell, the LibDems aren't even the challengers in a lot of those seats anymore.Sean_F said:
12 seats is a good return for 7.6%, but it's still pretty dismal.rcs1000 said:
The curious thing about the locals vs the GE, to me, was that the LDs did very well in vote share in the locals, but disastrously in terms of seats. In the GE, that was reversed: they did disastrously in terms of vote share, but very well in terms of seats.Sean_F said:
But then came Copeland, and the Conservatives' local by-election performance was transformed, and the local elections in May were excellent.AlastairMeeks said:One point to note. For months in advance of the general election, the Conservatives' performance in local by-elections had been decidedly ho-hum. This was dismissed as irrelevant by those pbers who were uber-loyalist to the blue cause. But it seems to have foreshadowed a lack of enthusiasm for the Conservative cause that proved to be important when their campaign was put under strain.
Even if leads of 20% were froth, I think the Conservatives really were leading by double digits at the start of the campaign, and then threw it away.
The number of realistic targets for the Lib Dems has fallen. Some of the Tory majorities in seats that were recently held by the Lib Dems, or were very marginal, are now enormous,
I was astonished in the last thread to see that Labour are now second in Newton Abbot.
Whether that will last or whether we’ve seen a permanent shift I’ll leave others to judge.0 -
@MartinBelam: Imagine Watergate. But one of Nixon's kids kept uploading all the tapes to Soundcloud0
-
Baroness Kennedy was (unusually) a waffly mess - Davis saw her off with ease - then after that tried a 'how many women are on your team - you don't know? Disgraceful!' as the chairman was closing proceedings....williamglenn said:Davis: If American banks want to relocate to Paris or Frankfurt good luck to them.
0 -
Define 'extreme Brexit'AlastairMeeks said:
Once the Conservatives had decided to pursue extreme BrexitDavid_Evershed said:
Because the IMF looms when governments can no longer borrow in the debt markets?AlastairMeeks said:
The Conservatives have trashed their own reputation for sober government. Once they had done that, why wouldn't people vote for what they most liked the sound of, regardless of the cost?David_Evershed said:It is strange that it was the ABC1 group that were taken in by the offer of free stuff and a magic money tree in the Labour manifesto - not the C2 DE group.
Is this poor numeracy amongst the professional class the result of poor education during the Blair years?
0 -
Massive grants??OldKingCole said:
I suspect that’s the EU effect. The SW, in spite of having some massive grants was very anti EU.Sean_F said:
As well as West Devon, Totnes, St. Austell, SE Cornwall, Camborne.Danny565 said:
Hell, the LibDems aren't even the challengers in a lot of those seats anymore.Sean_F said:
12 seats is a good return for 7.6%, but it's still pretty dismal.rcs1000 said:
The curious thing about the locals vs the GE, to me, was that the LDs did very well in vote share in the locals, but disastrously in terms of seats. In the GE, that was reversed: they did disastrously in terms of vote share, but very well in terms of seats.Sean_F said:
But then came Copeland, and the Conservatives' local by-election performance was transformed, and the local elections in May were excellent.AlastairMeeks said:One point to note. For months in advance of the general election, the Conservatives' performance in local by-elections had been decidedly ho-hum. This was dismissed as irrelevant by those pbers who were uber-loyalist to the blue cause. But it seems to have foreshadowed a lack of enthusiasm for the Conservative cause that proved to be important when their campaign was put under strain.
Even if leads of 20% were froth, I think the Conservatives really were leading by double digits at the start of the campaign, and then threw it away.
The number of realistic targets for the Lib Dems has fallen. Some of the Tory majorities in seats that were recently held by the Lib Dems, or were very marginal, are now enormous,
I was astonished in the last thread to see that Labour are now second in Newton Abbot.
Whether that will last or whether we’ve seen a permanent shift I’ll leave others to judge.
As net contributors we just got a percentage of our own money back.
...and we then had to stick a 12-star sign on all of the projects we funded ourselves to show how grateful we were.0 -
I assume all were selected based on merits.CarlottaVance said:
Baroness Kennedy was (unusually) a waffly mess - Davis saw her off with ease - then after that tried a 'how many women are on your team - you don't know? Disgraceful!' as the chairman was closing proceedings....williamglenn said:Davis: If American banks want to relocate to Paris or Frankfurt good luck to them.
0 -
Summed up in two Prime Ministerial phrases:CarlottaVance said:
Define 'extreme Brexit'AlastairMeeks said:
Once the Conservatives had decided to pursue extreme BrexitDavid_Evershed said:
Because the IMF looms when governments can no longer borrow in the debt markets?AlastairMeeks said:
The Conservatives have trashed their own reputation for sober government. Once they had done that, why wouldn't people vote for what they most liked the sound of, regardless of the cost?David_Evershed said:It is strange that it was the ABC1 group that were taken in by the offer of free stuff and a magic money tree in the Labour manifesto - not the C2 DE group.
Is this poor numeracy amongst the professional class the result of poor education during the Blair years?
"No deal is better than a bad deal"
"Citizens of nowhere"0 -
Because more people voted for her!?Sunil_Prasannan said:
If this hacking occurred, how come Hillary won the popular vote?rkrkrk said:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/world/national-security/obama-orders-review-of-russian-hacking-during-presidential-campaign/2016/12/09/31d6b300-be2a-11e6-94ac-3d324840106c_story.htmlSunil_Prasannan said:
Easy: The Russians used their evil mind-control ray to befuddle the US electorate, forcing them to give Hillary the popular vote.rkrkrk said:
Think you're confused.... Or trying to confuse me.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Maybe the Russians actually wanted Hillary to win?rkrkrk said:
Oh whether it was successful or not is hardly the point...Sunil_Prasannan said:
The Russian subversion was SO successful that Hillary actually WON the popular voterkrkrk said:
It's amazing.Scott_P said:Is Donald Trump Jr admitting to potentially unwise activity live on Twitter?
The case for Trump's defence is now:
Yes the Russians did hack Hilary's campaign. And yes we went to meetings and tried to collude to subvert democracy. But we met the wrong Russians who didn't have useful information so we were unsuccessful.
The point is that working with a hostile country to spy on your opponents is wrong!
Just because you try to influence an election illegally - doesn't mean you will succeed in winning the popular vote.
If I bring the ref of a football match to give me a penalty, and then still lose the game, it doesn't mean I didn't cheat.0 -
Cop out - what does not extreme Brexit look like?AlastairMeeks said:
Summed up in two Prime Ministerial phrases:CarlottaVance said:
Define 'extreme Brexit'AlastairMeeks said:
Once the Conservatives had decided to pursue extreme BrexitDavid_Evershed said:
Because the IMF looms when governments can no longer borrow in the debt markets?AlastairMeeks said:
The Conservatives have trashed their own reputation for sober government. Once they had done that, why wouldn't people vote for what they most liked the sound of, regardless of the cost?David_Evershed said:It is strange that it was the ABC1 group that were taken in by the offer of free stuff and a magic money tree in the Labour manifesto - not the C2 DE group.
Is this poor numeracy amongst the professional class the result of poor education during the Blair years?
"No deal is better than a bad deal"
"Citizens of nowhere"-1 -
Ah, the Brexit I voted for then.AlastairMeeks said:
Summed up in two Prime Ministerial phrases:CarlottaVance said:
Define 'extreme Brexit'AlastairMeeks said:
Once the Conservatives had decided to pursue extreme BrexitDavid_Evershed said:
Because the IMF looms when governments can no longer borrow in the debt markets?AlastairMeeks said:
The Conservatives have trashed their own reputation for sober government. Once they had done that, why wouldn't people vote for what they most liked the sound of, regardless of the cost?David_Evershed said:It is strange that it was the ABC1 group that were taken in by the offer of free stuff and a magic money tree in the Labour manifesto - not the C2 DE group.
Is this poor numeracy amongst the professional class the result of poor education during the Blair years?
"No deal is better than a bad deal"
"Citizens of nowhere"0 -
If you break the negotiations down to qualification for the status, benefits accruing from it and guarantees, the two sides are close on benefits, far apart on qualification and the UK is essentially offering no guarantees at all.FF43 said:I disagree. The positions on citizens' rights are quite far apart. It doesn't mean they won't be bridged.
0 -
It means accepting that compromise is going to be essential and being welcoming to those with outlooks that differ from Mrs May's bumpkinocracy rather than stigmatising them.CarlottaVance said:
Cop out - what does not extreme Brexit look like?AlastairMeeks said:
Summed up in two Prime Ministerial phrases:CarlottaVance said:
Define 'extreme Brexit'AlastairMeeks said:
Once the Conservatives had decided to pursue extreme BrexitDavid_Evershed said:
Because the IMF looms when governments can no longer borrow in the debt markets?AlastairMeeks said:
The Conservatives have trashed their own reputation for sober government. Once they had done that, why wouldn't people vote for what they most liked the sound of, regardless of the cost?David_Evershed said:It is strange that it was the ABC1 group that were taken in by the offer of free stuff and a magic money tree in the Labour manifesto - not the C2 DE group.
Is this poor numeracy amongst the professional class the result of poor education during the Blair years?
"No deal is better than a bad deal"
"Citizens of nowhere"
But evidently the Conservatives have decided that there are more votes in being provincial and unpleasant to those with a more international outlook. They can hardly complain when those who feel differently vote differently.0 -
Yeah, they should really be called 'partial refunds' rather than grants.GeoffM said:
Massive grants??OldKingCole said:
I suspect that’s the EU effect. The SW, in spite of having some massive grants was very anti EU.Sean_F said:
As well as West Devon, Totnes, St. Austell, SE Cornwall, Camborne.Danny565 said:
Hell, the LibDems aren't even the challengers in a lot of those seats anymore.Sean_F said:
12 seats is a good return for 7.6%, but it's still pretty dismal.rcs1000 said:
The curious thing about the locals vs the GE, to me, was that the LDs did very well in vote share in the locals, but disastrously in terms of seats. In the GE, that was reversed: they did disastrously in terms of vote share, but very well in terms of seats.Sean_F said:
But then came Copeland, and the Conservatives' local by-election performance was transformed, and the local elections in May were excellent.AlastairMeeks said:One point to note. For months in advance of the general election, the Conservatives' performance in local by-elections had been decidedly ho-hum. This was dismissed as irrelevant by those pbers who were uber-loyalist to the blue cause. But it seems to have foreshadowed a lack of enthusiasm for the Conservative cause that proved to be important when their campaign was put under strain.
Even if leads of 20% were froth, I think the Conservatives really were leading by double digits at the start of the campaign, and then threw it away.
The number of realistic targets for the Lib Dems has fallen. Some of the Tory majorities in seats that were recently held by the Lib Dems, or were very marginal, are now enormous,
I was astonished in the last thread to see that Labour are now second in Newton Abbot.
Whether that will last or whether we’ve seen a permanent shift I’ll leave others to judge.
As net contributors we just got a percentage of our own money back.
...and we then had to stick a 12-star sign on all of the projects we funded ourselves to show how grateful we were.
0 -
These were grants for things that the British Government didn’t/didn’t want to fund.GeoffM said:
Massive grants??OldKingCole said:
I suspect that’s the EU effect. The SW, in spite of having some massive grants was very anti EU.Sean_F said:
As well as West Devon, Totnes, St. Austell, SE Cornwall, Camborne.Danny565 said:
Hell, the LibDems aren't even the challengers in a lot of those seats anymore.Sean_F said:
12 seats is a good return for 7.6%, but it's still pretty dismal.rcs1000 said:
The curious thing about the locals vs the GE, to me, was that the LDs did very well in vote share in the locals, but disastrously in terms of seats. In the GE, that was reversed: they did disastrously in terms of vote share, but very well in terms of seats.Sean_F said:
But then came Copeland, and the Conservatives' local by-election performance was transformed, and the local elections in May were excellent.AlastairMeeks said:One point to note. For months in advance of the general election, the Conservatives' performance in local by-elections had been decidedly ho-hum. This was dismissed as irrelevant by those pbers who were uber-loyalist to the blue cause. But it seems to have foreshadowed a lack of enthusiasm for the Conservative cause that proved to be important when their campaign was put under strain.
Even if leads of 20% were froth, I think the Conservatives really were leading by double digits at the start of the campaign, and then threw it away.
The number of realistic targets for the Lib Dems has fallen. Some of the Tory majorities in seats that were recently held by the Lib Dems, or were very marginal, are now enormous,
I was astonished in the last thread to see that Labour are now second in Newton Abbot.
Whether that will last or whether we’ve seen a permanent shift I’ll leave others to judge.
As net contributors we just got a percentage of our own money back.
...and we then had to stick a 12-star sign on all of the projects we funded ourselves to show how grateful we were.
But then I still hope that we’ll reverse last June’s insane decision and you think it was a great idea.0 -
One where "no deal" is not seriously contemplated, where there's not constant moronic and offensive outbursts from Boris, and where there isn't a fetishisation of being free from the ECJ, even when that wasn't one of the main reasons that people voted to Leave (whereas immigration clearly was one of the main reasons).CarlottaVance said:
Cop out - what does not extreme Brexit look like?AlastairMeeks said:
Summed up in two Prime Ministerial phrases:CarlottaVance said:
Define 'extreme Brexit'AlastairMeeks said:
Once the Conservatives had decided to pursue extreme BrexitDavid_Evershed said:
Because the IMF looms when governments can no longer borrow in the debt markets?AlastairMeeks said:
The Conservatives have trashed their own reputation for sober government. Once they had done that, why wouldn't people vote for what they most liked the sound of, regardless of the cost?David_Evershed said:It is strange that it was the ABC1 group that were taken in by the offer of free stuff and a magic money tree in the Labour manifesto - not the C2 DE group.
Is this poor numeracy amongst the professional class the result of poor education during the Blair years?
"No deal is better than a bad deal"
"Citizens of nowhere"0 -
Donald Trump Jr's first call after he was allegedly offered information on Hillary Clinton by a Russia-linked lawyer should have been to the FBI, a former White House ethics lawyer has said.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/donald-trump-jr-russian-lawyer-meeting-ex-bush-ethics-lawyer-loyal-american-called-fbi-hilary-a7835211.html0 -
Seems like Don Jr was told they had the emails and so decided to publish them himself.GIN1138 said:
I get the feeling Don Jr could be a bit of a dim-wit.Scott_P said:Is Donald Trump Jr admitting to potentially unwise activity live on Twitter?
Ivanka however seems to be a very smart lady...
Removes a level of deniability... But maybe not the dumbest move? Onto the front foot. Can claim being open about the affair.0 -
Why is not OK to "send" £1 billion over two years to Northern Ireland (who are, after all, UK citizens!), but perfectly OK to send £8.5 billion (net) every year to Brussels?OldKingCole said:
These were grants for things that the British Government didn’t/didn’t want to fund.GeoffM said:
Massive grants??OldKingCole said:
I suspect that’s the EU effect. The SW, in spite of having some massive grants was very anti EU.Sean_F said:
As well as West Devon, Totnes, St. Austell, SE Cornwall, Camborne.Danny565 said:
Hell, the LibDems aren't even the challengers in a lot of those seats anymore.Sean_F said:
12 seats is a good return for 7.6%, but it's still pretty dismal.rcs1000 said:
The curious thing about the locals vs the GE, to me, was that the LDs did very well in vote share in the locals, but disastrously in terms of seats. In the GE, that was reversed: they did disastrously in terms of vote share, but very well in terms of seats.Sean_F said:
But then came Copeland, and the Conservatives' local by-election performance was transformed, and the local elections in May were excellent.AlastairMeeks said:One point to note. For months in advance of the general election, the Conservatives' performance in local by-elections had been decidedly ho-hum. This was dismissed as irrelevant by those pbers who were uber-loyalist to the blue cause. But it seems to have foreshadowed a lack of enthusiasm for the Conservative cause that proved to be important when their campaign was put under strain.
Even if leads of 20% were froth, I think the Conservatives really were leading by double digits at the start of the campaign, and then threw it away.
The number of realistic targets for the Lib Dems has fallen. Some of the Tory majorities in seats that were recently held by the Lib Dems, or were very marginal, are now enormous,
I was astonished in the last thread to see that Labour are now second in Newton Abbot.
Whether that will last or whether we’ve seen a permanent shift I’ll leave others to judge.
As net contributors we just got a percentage of our own money back.
...and we then had to stick a 12-star sign on all of the projects we funded ourselves to show how grateful we were.
But then I still hope that we’ll reverse last June’s insane decision and you think it was a great idea.0 -
Why would they if the EU will do it?OldKingCole said:
These were grants for things that the British Government didn’t/didn’t want to fund.GeoffM said:
Massive grants??OldKingCole said:
I suspect that’s the EU effect. The SW, in spite of having some massive grants was very anti EU.Sean_F said:
As well as West Devon, Totnes, St. Austell, SE Cornwall, Camborne.Danny565 said:
Hell, the LibDems aren't even the challengers in a lot of those seats anymore.Sean_F said:
12 seats is a good return for 7.6%, but it's still pretty dismal.rcs1000 said:
The curious thing about the locals vs the GE, to me, was that the LDs did very well in vote share in the locals, but disastrously in terms of seats. In the GE, that was reversed: they did disastrously in terms of vote share, but very well in terms of seats.Sean_F said:
But then came Copeland, and the Conservatives' local by-election performance was transformed, and the local elections in May were excellent.AlastairMeeks said:One point to note. For months in advance of the general election, the Conservatives' performance in local by-elections had been decidedly ho-hum. This was dismissed as irrelevant by those pbers who were uber-loyalist to the blue cause. But it seems to have foreshadowed a lack of enthusiasm for the Conservative cause that proved to be important when their campaign was put under strain.
Even if leads of 20% were froth, I think the Conservatives really were leading by double digits at the start of the campaign, and then threw it away.
The number of realistic targets for the Lib Dems has fallen. Some of the Tory majorities in seats that were recently held by the Lib Dems, or were very marginal, are now enormous,
I was astonished in the last thread to see that Labour are now second in Newton Abbot.
Whether that will last or whether we’ve seen a permanent shift I’ll leave others to judge.
As net contributors we just got a percentage of our own money back.
...and we then had to stick a 12-star sign on all of the projects we funded ourselves to show how grateful we were.
But then I still hope that we’ll reverse last June’s insane decision and you think it was a great idea.0 -
So you can't describe it.....thanks for clearing that up.AlastairMeeks said:
It means accepting that compromise is going to be essential and being welcoming to those with outlooks that differ from Mrs May's bumpkinocracy rather than stigmatising them.CarlottaVance said:
Cop out - what does not extreme Brexit look like?AlastairMeeks said:
Summed up in two Prime Ministerial phrases:CarlottaVance said:
Define 'extreme Brexit'AlastairMeeks said:
Once the Conservatives had decided to pursue extreme BrexitDavid_Evershed said:
Because the IMF looms when governments can no longer borrow in the debt markets?AlastairMeeks said:
The Conservatives have trashed their own reputation for sober government. Once they had done that, why wouldn't people vote for what they most liked the sound of, regardless of the cost?David_Evershed said:It is strange that it was the ABC1 group that were taken in by the offer of free stuff and a magic money tree in the Labour manifesto - not the C2 DE group.
Is this poor numeracy amongst the professional class the result of poor education during the Blair years?
"No deal is better than a bad deal"
"Citizens of nowhere"0 -
The EU is the provincial and shrinking option.AlastairMeeks said:
It means accepting that compromise is going to be essential and being welcoming to those with outlooks that differ from Mrs May's bumpkinocracy rather than stigmatising them.CarlottaVance said:
Cop out - what does not extreme Brexit look like?AlastairMeeks said:
Summed up in two Prime Ministerial phrases:CarlottaVance said:
Define 'extreme Brexit'AlastairMeeks said:
Once the Conservatives had decided to pursue extreme BrexitDavid_Evershed said:
Because the IMF looms when governments can no longer borrow in the debt markets?AlastairMeeks said:
The Conservatives have trashed their own reputation for sober government. Once they had done that, why wouldn't people vote for what they most liked the sound of, regardless of the cost?David_Evershed said:It is strange that it was the ABC1 group that were taken in by the offer of free stuff and a magic money tree in the Labour manifesto - not the C2 DE group.
Is this poor numeracy amongst the professional class the result of poor education during the Blair years?
"No deal is better than a bad deal"
"Citizens of nowhere"
But evidently the Conservatives have decided that there are more votes in being provincial and unpleasant to those with a more international outlook. They can hardly complain when those who feel differently vote differently.
Adding the other 88% of the world population to that previous narrow view is the international outward looking choice that we've rightly made.0 -
I'm sorry that you're unable to read. I wouldn't be flaunting that though if I were you.CarlottaVance said:
So you can't describe it.....thanks for clearing that up.AlastairMeeks said:
It means accepting that compromise is going to be essential and being welcoming to those with outlooks that differ from Mrs May's bumpkinocracy rather than stigmatising them.CarlottaVance said:
Cop out - what does not extreme Brexit look like?AlastairMeeks said:
Summed up in two Prime Ministerial phrases:CarlottaVance said:
Define 'extreme Brexit'AlastairMeeks said:
Once the Conservatives had decided to pursue extreme BrexitDavid_Evershed said:
Because the IMF looms when governments can no longer borrow in the debt markets?AlastairMeeks said:
The Conservatives have trashed their own reputation for sober government. Once they had done that, why wouldn't people vote for what they most liked the sound of, regardless of the cost?David_Evershed said:It is strange that it was the ABC1 group that were taken in by the offer of free stuff and a magic money tree in the Labour manifesto - not the C2 DE group.
Is this poor numeracy amongst the professional class the result of poor education during the Blair years?
"No deal is better than a bad deal"
"Citizens of nowhere"
0 -
When did I say it wasn’t? The people of N Ireland have been badly governed for years and if we’re putting right wrongs I’m all for it.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Why is not OK to "send" £1 billion over two years to Northern Ireland (who are, after all, UK citizens!), but perfectly OK to send £8.5 billion (net) every year to Brussels?OldKingCole said:
These were grants for things that the British Government didn’t/didn’t want to fund.GeoffM said:
Massive grants??OldKingCole said:
I suspect that’s the EU effect. The SW, in spite of having some massive grants was very anti EU.Sean_F said:
As well as West Devon, Totnes, St. Austell, SE Cornwall, Camborne.Danny565 said:
Hell, the LibDems aren't even the challengers in a lot of those seats anymore.Sean_F said:
12 seats is a good return for 7.6%, but it's still pretty dismal.rcs1000 said:
The curious thing about the locals vs the GE, to me, was that the LDs did very well in vote share in the locals, but disastrously in terms of seats. In the GE, that was reversed: they did disastrously in terms of vote share, but very well in terms of seats.Sean_F said:
But then came Copeland, and the Conservatives' local by-election performance was transformed, and the local elections in May were excellent.AlastairMeeks said:One point to note. For months in advance of the general election, the Conservatives' performance in local by-elections had been decidedly ho-hum. This was dismissed as irrelevant by those pbers who were uber-loyalist to the blue cause. But it seems to have foreshadowed a lack of enthusiasm for the Conservative cause that proved to be important when their campaign was put under strain.
Even if leads of 20% were froth, I think the Conservatives really were leading by double digits at the start of the campaign, and then threw it away.
The number of realistic targets for the Lib Dems has fallen. Some of the Tory majorities in seats that were recently held by the Lib Dems, or were very marginal, are now enormous,
I was astonished in the last thread to see that Labour are now second in Newton Abbot.
Whether that will last or whether we’ve seen a permanent shift I’ll leave others to judge.
As net contributors we just got a percentage of our own money back.
...and we then had to stick a 12-star sign on all of the projects we funded ourselves to show how grateful we were.
But then I still hope that we’ll reverse last June’s insane decision and you think it was a great idea.0
