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If we can accept Timor Leste's right to separateness from Indonesia and South Sudan's right to separateness from Sudan, we should take Northern Ireland on its own merits rather than looking for geographical tidiness.0
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Any Europa Universalis gamers on here tonight? They of all people know that border gore is simply unacceptable.AlastairMeeks said:If we can accept Timor Leste's right to separateness from Indonesia and South Sudan's right to separateness from Sudan, we should take Northern Ireland on its own merits rather than looking for geographical tidiness.
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Berwick was Scotland's main port and richest town in the Middle Ages until Edward I massacred everyone.foxinsoxuk said:
They did a vote some years ago in Berwick, that Scotland won...RoyalBlue said:
Why undermine a half-reasonable argument with a non-sequitur? Berwick has been part of England for over 500 years; I don't think it's up for debate.FF43 said:
Strasbourg maybe? Wars were fought over that border, but they were about nationality and territory. It's a normal border in that respect. Even those drawing up the original border in Ireland thought it was an arbitrary line . That's because it wasn't done to create a country. It's aim was and remains to establish a space where protestants could sure of being protestant.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Um , what about the Rhineland? Cologne straddles both banks.FF43 said:
If you stand on the banks of the Rhine, you can point to the other side and say, that's Germany, the people living there are Germans. This side is France and the people living here are French. That's a normal border.RobD said:
I thought the whole concern was about having a border? Yet you are saying if it doesn't exist there is no Northern Ireland.FF43 said:
In the immediate term it seems so. OTOH the motivation is probably that Brexit is so chaotic that further disruption should be avoided, which isn't a good foundation for the future.
It's about the border for Northern Ireland. Without it Northern Ireland ceases to exist. The Good Friday Agreement is ambiguous about the border. It's going to be a lot harder to maintain that ambiguity after Brexit. Those that think it a gerrymander will be less tolerant of it. It won't necessarily divide Ireland further, although it might.
If Scotland ever becomes independent, the border is clear. I think we can forgo Berwick.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-515350/Berwick-Tweed-votes-leave-England-join-Scotland-better-public-services.html0 -
Gib's been British longer than it was ever Spanish, so that's got to be a tick in the box.RobD said:
Gibraltar is about a third of the way there.GeoffM said:
When's the time cutoff?FF43 said:
It's not. The historical quibble illustrates the fact that Scotland as a territory (and a land and an idea) has been well defined for a thousand years. Northern Ireland still isn't.RoyalBlue said:
Why undermine a half-reasonable argument with a non-sequitur? Berwick has been part of England for over 500 years; I don't think it's up for debate.FF43 said:
Strasbourg maybe? Wars were fought over that border, but they were about nationality and territory. It's a normal border in that respect. Even those drawing up the original border in Ireland thought it was an arbitrary line . That's because it wasn't done to create a country. It's aim was and remains to establish a space where protestants could sure of being protestant.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Um , what about the Rhineland? Cologne straddles both banks.FF43 said:
If you stand on the banks of the Rhine, you can point to the other side and say, that's Germany, the people living there are Germans. This side is France and the people living here are French. That's a normal border.RobD said:
I thought the whole concern was about having a border? Yet you are saying if it doesn't exist there is no Northern Ireland.FF43 said:
In the immediate term it seems so. OTOH the motivation is probably that Brexit is so chaotic that further disruption should be avoided, which isn't a good foundation for the future.
It's about the border for Northern Ireland. Without it Northern Ireland ceases to exist. The Good Friday Agreement is ambiguous about the border. It's going to be a lot harder to maintain that ambiguity after Brexit. Those that think it a gerrymander will be less tolerant of it. It won't necessarily divide Ireland further, although it might.
If Scotland ever becomes independent, the border is clear. I think we can forgo Berwick.
Is there a countdown clock somewhere for easy reference?
Spain has always argued for "geographic territorial integrity" ... which must mean that they like the look of Portugal too. And Portugal has nicer beaches than we do.0 -
And let's not forget that they signed it away in perpetuity....GeoffM said:
Gib's been British longer than it was ever Spanish, so that's got to be a tick in the box.RobD said:
Gibraltar is about a third of the way there.GeoffM said:
When's the time cutoff?FF43 said:
It's not. The historical quibble illustrates the fact that Scotland as a territory (and a land and an idea) has been well defined for a thousand years. Northern Ireland still isn't.RoyalBlue said:
Why undermine a half-reasonable argument with a non-sequitur? Berwick has been part of England for over 500 years; I don't think it's up for debate.FF43 said:
Strasbourg maybe? Wars were fought over that border, but they were about nationality and territory. It's a normal border in that respect. Even those drawing up the original border in Ireland thought it was an arbitrary line . That's because it wasn't done to create a country. It's aim was and remains to establish a space where protestants could sure of being protestant.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Um , what about the Rhineland? Cologne straddles both banks.FF43 said:
If you stand on the banks of the Rhine, you can point to the other side and say, that's Germany, the people living there are Germans. This side is France and the people living here are French. That's a normal border.RobD said:
I thought the whole concern was about having a border? Yet you are saying if it doesn't exist there is no Northern Ireland.FF43 said:
In the immediate term it seems so. OTOH the motivation is probably that Brexit is so chaotic that further disruption should be avoided, which isn't a good foundation for the future.
It's about the border for Northern Ireland. Without it Northern Ireland ceases to exist. The Good Friday Agreement is ambiguous about the border. It's going to be a lot harder to maintain that ambiguity after Brexit. Those that think it a gerrymander will be less tolerant of it. It won't necessarily divide Ireland further, although it might.
If Scotland ever becomes independent, the border is clear. I think we can forgo Berwick.
Is there a countdown clock somewhere for easy reference?
Spain has always argued for "geographic territorial integrity" ... which must mean that they like the look of Portugal too. And Portugal has nicer beaches than we do.0 -
Top game. If you have the time for it.RobD said:
Any Europa Universalis gamers on here tonight? They of all people know that border gore is simply unacceptable.AlastairMeeks said:If we can accept Timor Leste's right to separateness from Indonesia and South Sudan's right to separateness from Sudan, we should take Northern Ireland on its own merits rather than looking for geographical tidiness.
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I'm more of a Left4Dead2 gamer. Shotgun/ninja sword combo.RobD said:
Any Europa Universalis gamers on here tonight? They of all people know that border gore is simply unacceptable.AlastairMeeks said:If we can accept Timor Leste's right to separateness from Indonesia and South Sudan's right to separateness from Sudan, we should take Northern Ireland on its own merits rather than looking for geographical tidiness.
I like to think that's also a reflection of my politics.0 -
It is still a border even if no passports are needed to cross it. Different laws apply on different sides.HYUFD said:
The Irish border has effectively been passport free since 1923Beverley_C said:
It was a necessary pre-condition for the Good Friday Agreement.HYUFD said:
I don't remember the IRA stopping their campaign of violence in the late 70s, 80s or 90s because the UK was in the EEC/EU. Indeed Northern Ireland was only created because of loyalist violence at the prospect of being made a part of the Irish Free StateBeverley_C said:
Which is why the EU was so important. Since both sides of the border were in the EU the border became less important.HYUFD said:
A reunified Ireland caused by Catholic votes could well see loyalist terrorist groups launch a similar campaign of violence in the Republic as the IRA launched on the mainland UK before the Good Friday agreementBeverley_C said:
Give it time. The Trend is their Friend (well... for Nationalists perhaps)RobD said:
Which has had zero effect on the polls regarding unification.Beverley_C said:
And some population trends to go with that ....Sunil_Prasannan said:Total Nationalist vote in NI
2005 2010 2015 2017
SF 174530 171942 176,232 238,915
SDLP 125626 110970 99,809 95,419
Nationalist 300,156 282,912 276,041 334,334
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Northern_Ireland_Life_and_Times_Survey_constitutional_preference.png0 -
Gibraltar's problem I think it's that it can make a better claim as an independent state on grounds of self determination than it can as a British colony guaranteed by treaty. The Gibraltar government makes both arguments, but intellectually they are incompatible. If Gibraltar is British by treaty then what Gibraltarians think is irrelevant. It comes down to how solid that treaty is. Otherwise Gibraltarians get to decide, the treaty is irrelevant and they are on their own.GeoffM said:
Gib's been British longer than it was ever Spanish, so that's got to be a tick in the box.RobD said:
Gibraltar is about a third of the way there.GeoffM said:
When's the time cutoff?FF43 said:
It's not. The historical quibble illustrates the fact that Scotland as a territory (and a land and an idea) has been well defined for a thousand years. Northern Ireland still isn't.RoyalBlue said:
Why undermine a half-reasonable argument with a non-sequitur? Berwick has been part of England for over 500 years; I don't think it's up for debate.FF43 said:
Strasbourg maybe? Wars were fought over that border, but they were about nationality and territory. It's a normal border in that respect. Even those drawing up the original border in Ireland thought it was an arbitrary line . That's because it wasn't done to create a country. It's aim was and remains to establish a space where protestants could sure of being protestant.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Um , what about the Rhineland? Cologne straddles both banks.FF43 said:
If you stand on the banks of the Rhine, you can point to the other side and say, that's Germany, the people living there are Germans. This side is France and the people living here are French. That's a normal border.RobD said:
I thought the whole concern was about having a border? Yet you are saying if it doesn't exist there is no Northern Ireland.FF43 said:
ht.
If Scotland ever becomes independent, the border is clear. I think we can forgo Berwick.
Is there a countdown clock somewhere for easy reference?
Spain has always argued for "geographic territorial integrity" ... which must mean that they like the look of Portugal too. And Portugal has nicer beaches than we do.0 -
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Kate Hoey voted for gay marriage. She's anti-EU and Unionist, but not DUP.dodrade said:
Lady Sylvia is a Remainer and usually pro-Labour but I can't see her voting to help install Corbyn as PM given his role as chief apologist for the murderers of her husband's officers in the 80's.MikeL said:
Lab amendment was on public sector pay and cuts etc.Sean_F said:
I think this will go down like a cup of cold sick with North Down's voters.RoyalBlue said:
I really hope the DUP can boot her out next time. Having voted with Corbyn for 5 years there should be plenty to work with.GeoffM said:
Confirmed - voted with LabourMikeL said:First vote of the new Parliament - on Lab amendment to Queens Speech:
Lab amendment loses by 323 to 309 - Govt maj = 14
Con + DUP = 328 less 2 Speakers less 2 tellers = 324. So one MP missing.
Opposition = 315 less 2 Speakers less 2 tellers = 311. So two MPs missing.
Very good turnout on both sides.
(Assumes Hermon voted with Opposition - can anyone confirm?)
Is it possible that whilst she supported that amendment she might still support Govt on certain other votes?
Kate Hoey on the other hand is DUP in all but name.0 -
313 Tories 10 DUP = 323
256 Lab 35 SNP 12 Lib Dem 4 PC 1 Green 1 Hermon = 309
Non voting
2 Tory Tellers
2 oppo tellers Lab
7 SF abstain
1 Bercow Speaker
1 Deputy (Lab) Hoyle
Deputy Ways, means Laing
2nd Deputy Ways, means Winterton = 15
---
647
2 Tory, 1 Lab absence ?
Its an odd number so it isn't all pairing.
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He can't be happy about it.isam said:Even George admits it
https://twitter.com/standardnews/status/8801530760610201600 -
That percentage includes people like me who think it is a self destructive folly, but more important to carry through the democratic vote.isam said:Even George admits it
https://twitter.com/standardnews/status/880153076061020160
Interesting link in the article, suggesting quite an exodus of highly skilled workers.
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/almost-half-of-highlyskilled-eu-workers-considering-leaving-uk-after-brexit-study-finds-a3573736.html
I have been head hunted again for a job in the antipodes. 5 more years of Mayism is a powerful reason to move on...
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What about the poor people you'll leave behind clinging to the raft?foxinsoxuk said:
That percentage includes people like me who think it is a self destructive folly, but more important to carry through the democratic vote.isam said:Even George admits it
https://twitter.com/standardnews/status/880153076061020160
Interesting link in the article, suggesting quite an exodus of highly skilled workers.
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/almost-half-of-highlyskilled-eu-workers-considering-leaving-uk-after-brexit-study-finds-a3573736.html
I have been head hunted again for a job in the antipodes. 5 more years of Mayism is a powerful reason to move on...0 -
@SkyNewsBreak: U.S. Homeland Security: enhanced security measures will apply to 280 airports in 105 countries covering 180 airlines and 2,000 flights a day
@SkyNewsBreak: U.S. Homeland Security says it could take additional steps against airlines that do not comply including barring all transport of laptops0 -
That issue apart she seemed very at home when she spoke at their conference a few years ago.Sean_F said:
Kate Hoey voted for gay marriage. She's anti-EU and Unionist, but not DUP.dodrade said:
Lady Sylvia is a Remainer and usually pro-Labour but I can't see her voting to help install Corbyn as PM given his role as chief apologist for the murderers of her husband's officers in the 80's.MikeL said:
Lab amendment was on public sector pay and cuts etc.Sean_F said:
I think this will go down like a cup of cold sick with North Down's voters.RoyalBlue said:
I really hope the DUP can boot her out next time. Having voted with Corbyn for 5 years there should be plenty to work with.GeoffM said:
Confirmed - voted with LabourMikeL said:First vote of the new Parliament - on Lab amendment to Queens Speech:
Lab amendment loses by 323 to 309 - Govt maj = 14
Con + DUP = 328 less 2 Speakers less 2 tellers = 324. So one MP missing.
Opposition = 315 less 2 Speakers less 2 tellers = 311. So two MPs missing.
Very good turnout on both sides.
(Assumes Hermon voted with Opposition - can anyone confirm?)
Is it possible that whilst she supported that amendment she might still support Govt on certain other votes?
Kate Hoey on the other hand is DUP in all but name.0 -
Brexiteers can look after them.freetochoose said:
What about the poor people you'll leave behind clinging to the raft?foxinsoxuk said:
That percentage includes people like me who think it is a self destructive folly, but more important to carry through the democratic vote.isam said:Even George admits it
https://twitter.com/standardnews/status/880153076061020160
Interesting link in the article, suggesting quite an exodus of highly skilled workers.
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/almost-half-of-highlyskilled-eu-workers-considering-leaving-uk-after-brexit-study-finds-a3573736.html
I have been head hunted again for a job in the antipodes. 5 more years of Mayism is a powerful reason to move on...0 -
That's the spirit, champagne socialists always show their true colours.foxinsoxuk said:
Brexiteers can look after them.freetochoose said:
What about the poor people you'll leave behind clinging to the raft?foxinsoxuk said:
That percentage includes people like me who think it is a self destructive folly, but more important to carry through the democratic vote.isam said:Even George admits it
https://twitter.com/standardnews/status/880153076061020160
Interesting link in the article, suggesting quite an exodus of highly skilled workers.
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/almost-half-of-highlyskilled-eu-workers-considering-leaving-uk-after-brexit-study-finds-a3573736.html
I have been head hunted again for a job in the antipodes. 5 more years of Mayism is a powerful reason to move on...
Don't your double standards cause you any embarrassment?0 -
People telling a polling company they are thinking about doing something does not seem like particularly compelling evidence of anything to me. Especially when they are smart people who know the poll results will be published.foxinsoxuk said:
That percentage includes people like me who think it is a self destructive folly, but more important to carry through the democratic vote.isam said:Even George admits it
https://twitter.com/standardnews/status/880153076061020160
Interesting link in the article, suggesting quite an exodus of highly skilled workers.
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/almost-half-of-highlyskilled-eu-workers-considering-leaving-uk-after-brexit-study-finds-a3573736.html
I have been head hunted again for a job in the antipodes. 5 more years of Mayism is a powerful reason to move on...0 -
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/news/article-4648252/Ocado-sends-self-driving-trucks-roads.html
Just wait until jezza gets into power, he will be banning those things faster than you can say trident .0 -
I bet George was crying bitter tears while sticking pins in his Theresa May doll after reading this...isam said:Even George admits it
https://twitter.com/standardnews/status/8801530760610201600 -
2 Labour 1Tory missing I think.Pulpstar said:313 Tories 10 DUP = 323
256 Lab 35 SNP 12 Lib Dem 4 PC 1 Green 1 Hermon = 309
Non voting
2 Tory Tellers
2 oppo tellers Lab
7 SF abstain
1 Bercow Speaker
1 Deputy (Lab) Hoyle
Deputy Ways, means Laing
2nd Deputy Ways, means Winterton = 15
---
647
2 Tory, 1 Lab absence ?
Its an odd number so it isn't all pairing.0 -
Brexit opens new horizons to the world, and I would be doing my bit to bring down net migration.freetochoose said:
That's the spirit, champagne socialists always show their true colours.foxinsoxuk said:
Brexiteers can look after them.freetochoose said:
What about the poor people you'll leave behind clinging to the raft?foxinsoxuk said:
That percentage includes people like me who think it is a self destructive folly, but more important to carry through the democratic vote.isam said:Even George admits it
https://twitter.com/standardnews/status/880153076061020160
Interesting link in the article, suggesting quite an exodus of highly skilled workers.
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/almost-half-of-highlyskilled-eu-workers-considering-leaving-uk-after-brexit-study-finds-a3573736.html
I have been head hunted again for a job in the antipodes. 5 more years of Mayism is a powerful reason to move on...
Don't your double standards cause you any embarrassment?
It is my patriotic duty...0 -
I find it interesting that having left the EU you want to flee to a non EU country with far tighter immigration laws than ours.foxinsoxuk said:
Brexit opens new horizons to the world, and I would be doing my bit to bring down net migration.freetochoose said:
That's the spirit, champagne socialists always show their true colours.foxinsoxuk said:
Brexiteers can look after them.freetochoose said:
What about the poor people you'll leave behind clinging to the raft?foxinsoxuk said:
That percentage includes people like me who think it is a self destructive folly, but more important to carry through the democratic vote.isam said:Even George admits it
https://twitter.com/standardnews/status/880153076061020160
Interesting link in the article, suggesting quite an exodus of highly skilled workers.
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/almost-half-of-highlyskilled-eu-workers-considering-leaving-uk-after-brexit-study-finds-a3573736.html
I have been head hunted again for a job in the antipodes. 5 more years of Mayism is a powerful reason to move on...
Don't your double standards cause you any embarrassment?
It is my patriotic duty...
I'm calling you out as a virtue signalling fraud, you only care about yourself.0 -
There is evidence that the tide has indeed turned in that direction already.CornishJohn said:
People telling a polling company they are thinking about doing something does not seem like particularly compelling evidence of anything to me. Especially when they are smart people who know the poll results will be published.foxinsoxuk said:
That percentage includes people like me who think it is a self destructive folly, but more important to carry through the democratic vote.isam said:Even George admits it
https://twitter.com/standardnews/status/880153076061020160
Interesting link in the article, suggesting quite an exodus of highly skilled workers.
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/almost-half-of-highlyskilled-eu-workers-considering-leaving-uk-after-brexit-study-finds-a3573736.html
I have been head hunted again for a job in the antipodes. 5 more years of Mayism is a powerful reason to move on...
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/immigration-figures-down-policies-general-election-2017-a7754796.html0 -
"Those who left were mostly EU8 citizens – a group which includes citizens of Poland, the Czech Republic, the Baltics and Hungary."foxinsoxuk said:
There is evidence that the tide has indeed turned in that direction already.CornishJohn said:
People telling a polling company they are thinking about doing something does not seem like particularly compelling evidence of anything to me. Especially when they are smart people who know the poll results will be published.foxinsoxuk said:
That percentage includes people like me who think it is a self destructive folly, but more important to carry through the democratic vote.isam said:Even George admits it
https://twitter.com/standardnews/status/880153076061020160
Interesting link in the article, suggesting quite an exodus of highly skilled workers.
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/almost-half-of-highlyskilled-eu-workers-considering-leaving-uk-after-brexit-study-finds-a3573736.html
I have been head hunted again for a job in the antipodes. 5 more years of Mayism is a powerful reason to move on...
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/immigration-figures-down-policies-general-election-2017-a7754796.html
That suggests its mainly low skilled migrants, not highly skilled migrants.0 -
It is them headhunting me.freetochoose said:
I find it interesting that having left the EU you want to flee to a non EU country with far tighter immigration laws than ours.foxinsoxuk said:
Brexit opens new horizons to the world, and I would be doing my bit to bring down net migration.freetochoose said:
That's the spirit, champagne socialists always show their true colours.foxinsoxuk said:
Brexiteers can look after them.freetochoose said:
What about the poor people you'll leave behind clinging to the raft?foxinsoxuk said:
That percentage includes people like me who think it is a self destructive folly, but more important to carry through the democratic vote.isam said:Even George admits it
https://twitter.com/standardnews/status/880153076061020160
Interesting link in the article, suggesting quite an exodus of highly skilled workers.
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/almost-half-of-highlyskilled-eu-workers-considering-leaving-uk-after-brexit-study-finds-a3573736.html
I have been head hunted again for a job in the antipodes. 5 more years of Mayism is a powerful reason to move on...
Don't your double standards cause you any embarrassment?
It is my patriotic duty...
I'm calling you out as a virtue signalling fraud, you only care about yourself.
The people of NZ need healthcare too.
I will explore the options, but will max out my pension here first probably, and I would want to know where Fox Jr planned to go.
BTW, I am a beer drinking Liberal, I leave champagne to the Socialists.
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Correct.justin124 said:
2 Labour 1Tory missing I think.Pulpstar said:313 Tories 10 DUP = 323
256 Lab 35 SNP 12 Lib Dem 4 PC 1 Green 1 Hermon = 309
Non voting
2 Tory Tellers
2 oppo tellers Lab
7 SF abstain
1 Bercow Speaker
1 Deputy (Lab) Hoyle
Deputy Ways, means Laing
2nd Deputy Ways, means Winterton = 15
---
647
2 Tory, 1 Lab absence ?
Its an odd number so it isn't all pairing.
Maj is 13 if everyone present.
Maj today was 14 - so one Con and two Lab missing.
Can anyone identify these three MPs?0 -
Labour must now be regretting having timed the Copeland by-election for late February . Had it been scheduled for the same day as the local elections - as was Manchester Gorton - the by election would have been cancelled and there would have been no Tory gain to celebrate there.Whilst the Tories did retain the seat on June 8th by a smaller margin than at the by election, had the by election never taken place I strongly suspect that Labour would have held the seat. When a seat changes hands at a by election the party that makes the gain usually outperforms at the subsequent General Election. The results from Barrow and Workington do suggest that in the absence of a by election this would have been a Labour hold.0
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Hey I respect your rights, it just makes your constant handwringing seem completely self indulgent.foxinsoxuk said:
It is them headhunting me.freetochoose said:
I find it interesting that having left the EU you want to flee to a non EU country with far tighter immigration laws than ours.foxinsoxuk said:
Brexit opens new horizons to the world, and I would be doing my bit to bring down net migration.freetochoose said:
That's the spirit, champagne socialists always show their true colours.foxinsoxuk said:
Brexiteers can look after them.freetochoose said:
What about the poor people you'll leave behind clinging to the raft?foxinsoxuk said:
That percentage includes people like me who think it is a self destructive folly, but more important to carry through the democratic vote.isam said:Even George admits it
https://twitter.com/standardnews/status/880153076061020160
Interesting link in the article, suggesting quite an exodus of highly skilled workers.
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/almost-half-of-highlyskilled-eu-workers-considering-leaving-uk-after-brexit-study-finds-a3573736.html
I have been head hunted again for a job in the antipodes. 5 more years of Mayism is a powerful reason to move on...
Don't your double standards cause you any embarrassment?
It is my patriotic duty...
I'm calling you out as a virtue signalling fraud, you only care about yourself.
The people of NZ need healthcare too.
I will explore the options, but will max out my pension here first probably, and I would want to know where Fox Jr planned to go.
BTW, I am a beer drinking Liberal, I leave champagne to the Socialists.0 -
It depends what skills you mean.CornishJohn said:
"Those who left were mostly EU8 citizens – a group which includes citizens of Poland, the Czech Republic, the Baltics and Hungary."foxinsoxuk said:
There is evidence that the tide has indeed turned in that direction already.CornishJohn said:
People telling a polling company they are thinking about doing something does not seem like particularly compelling evidence of anything to me. Especially when they are smart people who know the poll results will be published.foxinsoxuk said:
That percentage includes people like me who think it is a self destructive folly, but more important to carry through the democratic vote.isam said:Even George admits it
https://twitter.com/standardnews/status/880153076061020160
Interesting link in the article, suggesting quite an exodus of highly skilled workers.
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/almost-half-of-highlyskilled-eu-workers-considering-leaving-uk-after-brexit-study-finds-a3573736.html
I have been head hunted again for a job in the antipodes. 5 more years of Mayism is a powerful reason to move on...
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/immigration-figures-down-policies-general-election-2017-a7754796.html
That suggests its mainly low skilled migrants, not highly skilled migrants.
The consequent skill shortages should be good for those of us with in demand skills. More pay for me may make up to an extent for the depreciation of Sterling.0 -
Plenty of bullish PB Brexiteers live abroad.Why not Remainders too?freetochoose said:
Hey I respect your rights, it just makes your constant handwringing seem completely self indulgent.foxinsoxuk said:
It is them headhunting me.freetochoose said:
I find it interesting that having left the EU you want to flee to a non EU country with far tighter immigration laws than ours.foxinsoxuk said:
Brexit opens new horizons to the world, and I would be doing my bit to bring down net migration.freetochoose said:
That's the spirit, champagne socialists always show their true colours.foxinsoxuk said:
Brexiteers can look after them.freetochoose said:
What about the poor people you'll leave behind clinging to the raft?foxinsoxuk said:
That percentage includes people like me who think it is a self destructive folly, but more important to carry through the democratic vote.isam said:Even George admits it
https://twitter.com/standardnews/status/880153076061020160
Interesting link in the article, suggesting quite an exodus of highly skilled workers.
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/almost-half-of-highlyskilled-eu-workers-considering-leaving-uk-after-brexit-study-finds-a3573736.html
I have been head hunted again for a job in the antipodes. 5 more years of Mayism is a powerful reason to move on...
Don't your double standards cause you any embarrassment?
It is my patriotic duty...
I'm calling you out as a virtue signalling fraud, you only care about yourself.
The people of NZ need healthcare too.
I will explore the options, but will max out my pension here first probably, and I would want to know where Fox Jr planned to go.
BTW, I am a beer drinking Liberal, I leave champagne to the Socialists.0 -
Exactly - why not? But drop your constant bollox about caring for the poorest in society, you don't give a fuck for them.foxinsoxuk said:
Plenty of bullish PB Brexiteers live abroad.Why not Remainders too?freetochoose said:
Hey I respect your rights, it just makes your constant handwringing seem completely self indulgent.foxinsoxuk said:
It is them headhunting me.freetochoose said:
I find it interesting that having left the EU you want to flee to a non EU country with far tighter immigration laws than ours.foxinsoxuk said:
Brexit opens new horizons to the world, and I would be doing my bit to bring down net migration.freetochoose said:
That's the spirit, champagne socialists always show their true colours.foxinsoxuk said:
Brexiteers can look after them.freetochoose said:
What about the poor people you'll leave behind clinging to the raft?foxinsoxuk said:
That percentage includes people like me who think it is a self destructive folly, but more important to carry through the democratic vote.isam said:Even George admits it
https://twitter.com/standardnews/status/880153076061020160
Interesting link in the article, suggesting quite an exodus of highly skilled workers.
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/almost-half-of-highlyskilled-eu-workers-considering-leaving-uk-after-brexit-study-finds-a3573736.html
I have been head hunted again for a job in the antipodes. 5 more years of Mayism is a powerful reason to move on...
Don't your double standards cause you any embarrassment?
It is my patriotic duty...
I'm calling you out as a virtue signalling fraud, you only care about yourself.
The people of NZ need healthcare too.
I will explore the options, but will max out my pension here first probably, and I would want to know where Fox Jr planned to go.
BTW, I am a beer drinking Liberal, I leave champagne to the Socialists.0 -
On the contrary, it was the Brexiteers that demonstrated that they do not care about the poorest in society.freetochoose said:
Exactly - why not? But drop your constant bollox about caring for the poorest in society, you don't give a fuck for them.foxinsoxuk said:
Plenty of bullish PB Brexiteers live abroad.Why not Remainders too?freetochoose said:
Hey I respect your rights, it just makes your constant handwringing seem completely self indulgent.foxinsoxuk said:
It is them headhunting me.freetochoose said:
I find it interesting that having left the EU you want to flee to a non EU country with far tighter immigration laws than ours.foxinsoxuk said:
Brexit opens new horizons to the world, and I would be doing my bit to bring down net migration.freetochoose said:
That's the spirit, champagne socialists always show their true colours.foxinsoxuk said:
Brexiteers can look after them.freetochoose said:
What about the poor people you'll leave behind clinging to the raft?foxinsoxuk said:
That percentage includes people like me who think it is a self destructive folly, but more important to carry through the democratic vote.isam said:Even George admits it
https://twitter.com/standardnews/status/880153076061020160
Interesting link in the article, suggesting quite an exodus of highly skilled workers.
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/almost-half-of-highlyskilled-eu-workers-considering-leaving-uk-after-brexit-study-finds-a3573736.html
I have been head hunted again for a job in the antipodes. 5 more years of Mayism is a powerful reason to move on...
Don't your double standards cause you any embarrassment?
It is my patriotic duty...
I'm calling you out as a virtue signalling fraud, you only care about yourself.
The people of NZ need healthcare too.
I will explore the options, but will max out my pension here first probably, and I would want to know where Fox Jr planned to go.
BTW, I am a beer drinking Liberal, I leave champagne to the Socialists.
I have done 25 years in the NHS, any debt that I owed it is paid off in triplicate0 -
Had the Tories not won Copeland in February the election would probably have never happened in the first place.justin124 said:Labour must now be regretting having timed the Copeland by-election for late February . Had it been scheduled for the same day as the local elections - as was Manchester Gorton - the by election would have been cancelled and there would have been no Tory gain to celebrate there.Whilst the Tories did retain the seat on June 8th by a smaller margin than at the by election, had the by election never taken place I strongly suspect that Labour would have held the seat. When a seat changes hands at a by election the party that makes the gain usually outperforms at the subsequent General Election. The results from Barrow and Workington do suggest that in the absence of a by election this would have been a Labour hold.
0 -
From the BBC. (Whilst not exactly good news, this does sort of tally with the more sensible expectations. Although it was theoretically possible that 300+ people died, as some scaremongers have been claiming, it did seem unlikely.)
Police said "it would have been impossible for anyone to produce a list before that showed exactly who was in Grenfell Tower that night - that includes those people living there but also those visiting".
"What I can tell you is there are 129 flats inside Grenfell Tower. We, the police, have spoken to at least one occupant of 106 of those 129 flats," Det Supt McCormack said.
"These people have been able to tell us not just who lived in those flats, but importantly who was in those flats on the night."
The officer said 18 people connected to those 106 flats are dead or missing presumed dead but "it is a terrible reality that there are 23 flats where despite huge investigative efforts, we have been unable to trace anyone alive who lived there.
"At this stage, we must presume, that no-one in those 23 flats survived, that includes anyone who lived there or was visiting them."0 -
and before the Euro they used the Mark.Bobajob_PB said:
Fun fact: Montenegro uses the Euro despite not being in the EU nor being allowed to do so. Short of invading, it's impossible to prevent sovereign states using whatever currency they please.GeoffM said:
Only a matter of time. All they need to do is fudge the criteria a little bit further.tlg86 said:
Have you been there recently? I was there earlier in the year and I'm going back next month on business. I'll only bother packing Euros in my wallet. Just about everything is priced and paid in euros - and it was even before they joined the EU.0 -
You say the NHS; Rand Paul says the Gulag.foxinsoxuk said:
On the contrary, it was the Brexiteers that demonstrated that they do not care about the poorest in society.freetochoose said:
Exactly - why not? But drop your constant bollox about caring for the poorest in society, you don't give a fuck for them.foxinsoxuk said:
Plenty of bullish PB Brexiteers live abroad.Why not Remainders too?freetochoose said:
Hey I respect your rights, it just makes your constant handwringing seem completely self indulgent.foxinsoxuk said:
It is them headhunting me.freetochoose said:
I find it interesting that having left the EU you want to flee to a non EU country with far tighter immigration laws than ours.foxinsoxuk said:
Brexit opens new horizons to the world, and I would be doing my bit to bring down net migration.freetochoose said:
That's the spirit, champagne socialists always show their true colours.foxinsoxuk said:
Brexiteers can look after them.freetochoose said:
What about the poor people you'll leave behind clinging to the raft?foxinsoxuk said:
That percentage includes people like me who think it is a self destructive folly, but more important to carry through the democratic vote.isam said:Even George admits it
https://twitter.com/standardnews/status/880153076061020160
Interesting link in the article, suggesting quite an exodus of highly skilled workers.
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/almost-half-of-highlyskilled-eu-workers-considering-leaving-uk-after-brexit-study-finds-a3573736.html
I have been head hunted again for a job in the antipodes. 5 more years of Mayism is a powerful reason to move on...
Don't your double standards cause you any embarrassment?
It is my patriotic duty...
I'm calling you out as a virtue signalling fraud, you only care about yourself.
The people of NZ need healthcare too.
I will explore the options, but will max out my pension here first probably, and I would want to know where Fox Jr planned to go.
BTW, I am a beer drinking Liberal, I leave champagne to the Socialists.
I have done 25 years in the NHS, any debt that I owed it is paid off in triplicate
http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_59531a35e4b02734df2e5dde/0 -
Hear, hear! But I hope you do stay - this country needs all the liberal-minded citizens it can get.foxinsoxuk said:
On the contrary, it was the Brexiteers that demonstrated that they do not care about the poorest in society.freetochoose said:
Exactly - why not? But drop your constant bollox about caring for the poorest in society, you don't give a fuck for them.foxinsoxuk said:
Plenty of bullish PB Brexiteers live abroad.Why not Remainders too?freetochoose said:
Hey I respect your rights, it just makes your constant handwringing seem completely self indulgent.foxinsoxuk said:
It is them headhunting me.freetochoose said:
I find it interesting that having left the EU you want to flee to a non EU country with far tighter immigration laws than ours.foxinsoxuk said:
Brexit opens new horizons to the world, and I would be doing my bit to bring down net migration.freetochoose said:
That's the spirit, champagne socialists always show their true colours.foxinsoxuk said:
Brexiteers can look after them.freetochoose said:
What about the poor people you'll leave behind clinging to the raft?foxinsoxuk said:
That percentage includes people like me who think it is a self destructive folly, but more important to carry through the democratic vote.isam said:Even George admits it
https://twitter.com/standardnews/status/880153076061020160
Interesting link in the article, suggesting quite an exodus of highly skilled workers.
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/almost-half-of-highlyskilled-eu-workers-considering-leaving-uk-after-brexit-study-finds-a3573736.html
I have been head hunted again for a job in the antipodes. 5 more years of Mayism is a powerful reason to move on...
Don't your double standards cause you any embarrassment?
It is my patriotic duty...
I'm calling you out as a virtue signalling fraud, you only care about yourself.
The people of NZ need healthcare too.
I will explore the options, but will max out my pension here first probably, and I would want to know where Fox Jr planned to go.
BTW, I am a beer drinking Liberal, I leave champagne to the Socialists.
I have done 25 years in the NHS, any debt that I owed it is paid off in triplicate0 -
Possibly so - though I would have thought that the massive 20% Tory poll lead was the decisive factor. That ,in turn, may have been boosted by the by election win - though its impact should have faded away by mid-April.dodrade said:
Had the Tories not won Copeland in February the election would probably have never happened in the first place.justin124 said:Labour must now be regretting having timed the Copeland by-election for late February . Had it been scheduled for the same day as the local elections - as was Manchester Gorton - the by election would have been cancelled and there would have been no Tory gain to celebrate there.Whilst the Tories did retain the seat on June 8th by a smaller margin than at the by election, had the by election never taken place I strongly suspect that Labour would have held the seat. When a seat changes hands at a by election the party that makes the gain usually outperforms at the subsequent General Election. The results from Barrow and Workington do suggest that in the absence of a by election this would have been a Labour hold.
0 -
Nah, the time is not yet right for me to go, for family reasons.Benpointer said:
Hear, hear! But I hope you do stay - this country needs all the liberal-minded citizens it can get.foxinsoxuk said:
On the contrary, it was the Brexiteers that demonstrated that they do not care about the poorest in society.freetochoose said:
Exactly - why not? But drop your constant bollox about caring for the poorest in society, you don't give a fuck for them.foxinsoxuk said:
Plenty of bullish PB Brexiteers live abroad.Why not Remainders too?freetochoose said:
Hey I respect your rights, it just makes your constant handwringing seem completely self indulgent.foxinsoxuk said:
It is them headhunting me.freetochoose said:
I find it interesting that having left the EU you want to flee to a non EU country with far tighter immigration laws than ours.foxinsoxuk said:
Brexit opens new horizons to the world, and I would be doing my bit to bring down net migration.freetochoose said:
That's the spirit, champagne socialists always show their true colours.foxinsoxuk said:
Brexiteers can look after them.freetochoose said:
What about the poor people you'll leave behind clinging to the raft?foxinsoxuk said:
That percentage includes people like me who think it is a self destructive folly, but more important to carry through the democratic vote.isam said:Even George admits it
https://twitter.com/standardnews/status/880153076061020160
Interesting link in the article, suggesting quite an exodus of highly skilled workers.
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/almost-half-of-highlyskilled-eu-workers-considering-leaving-uk-after-brexit-study-finds-a3573736.html
I have been head hunted again for a job in the antipodes. 5 more years of Mayism is a powerful reason to move on...
Don't your double standards cause you any embarrassment?
It is my patriotic duty...
I'm calling you out as a virtue signalling fraud, you only care about yourself.
The people of NZ need healthcare too.
I will explore the options, but will max out my pension here first probably, and I would want to know where Fox Jr planned to go.
BTW, I am a beer drinking Liberal, I leave champagne to the Socialists.
I have done 25 years in the NHS, any debt that I owed it is paid off in triplicate
Always flattering to be headhunted though.0 -
It's not guaranteed by any treaty. The treaty simply transferred sovereignty of Gibraltar in perpetuity to the crown.FF43 said:
Gibraltar's problem I think it's that it can make a better claim as an independent state on grounds of self determination than it can as a British colony guaranteed by treaty. The Gibraltar government makes both arguments, but intellectually they are incompatible. If Gibraltar is British by treaty then what Gibraltarians think is irrelevant. It comes down to how solid that treaty is. Otherwise Gibraltarians get to decide, the treaty is irrelevant and they are on their own.GeoffM said:
Gib's been British longer than it was ever Spanish, so that's got to be a tick in the box.RobD said:
Gibraltar is about a third of the way there.GeoffM said:
When's the time cutoff?FF43 said:
It's not. The historical quibble illustrates the fact that Scotland as a territory (and a land and an idea) has been well defined for a thousand years. Northern Ireland still isn't.RoyalBlue said:
Why undermine a half-reasonable argument with a non-sequitur? Berwick has been part of England for over 500 years; I don't think it's up for debate.FF43 said:
Strasbourg maybe? Wars were fought over that border, but they were about nationality and territory. It's a normal border in that respect. Even those drawing up the original border in Ireland thought it was an arbitrary line . That's because it wasn't done to create a country. It's aim was and remains to establish a space where protestants could sure of being protestant.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Um , what about the Rhineland? Cologne straddles both banks.FF43 said:
If you stand on the banks of the Rhine, you can point to the other side and say, that's Germany, the people living there are Germans. This side is France and the people living here are French. That's a normal border.RobD said:
I thought the whole concern was about having a border? Yet you are saying if it doesn't exist there is no Northern Ireland.FF43 said:
ht.
If Scotland ever becomes independent, the border is clear. I think we can forgo Berwick.
Is there a countdown clock somewhere for easy reference?
Spain has always argued for "geographic territorial integrity" ... which must mean that they like the look of Portugal too. And Portugal has nicer beaches than we do.0 -
I have helped out at homeless shelters. I have helped run summer camps for street orphans. I always run all my old clothes to the local Oxfam. I have spent months of my life fundraising for vulnerable children. My wife and I gave a four figure sum to a health charity to celebrate our wedding.foxinsoxuk said:
On the contrary, it was the Brexiteers that demonstrated that they do not care about the poorest in society.freetochoose said:
Exactly - why not? But drop your constant bollox about caring for the poorest in society, you don't give a fuck for them.foxinsoxuk said:
Plenty of bullish PB Brexiteers live abroad.Why not Remainders too?freetochoose said:
Hey I respect your rights, it just makes your constant handwringing seem completely self indulgent.foxinsoxuk said:
It is them headhunting me.freetochoose said:foxinsoxuk said:freetochoose said:foxinsoxuk said:
Brexiteers can look after them.freetochoose said:
What about the poor people you'll leave behind clinging to the raft?foxinsoxuk said:
That percentage includes people like me who think it is a self destructive folly, but more important to carry through the democratic vote.isam said:Even George admits it
https://twitter.com/standardnews/status/880153076061020160
Interesting link in the article, suggesting quite an exodus of highly skilled workers.
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/almost-half-of-highlyskilled-eu-workers-considering-leaving-uk-after-brexit-study-finds-a3573736.html
I have been head hunted again for a job in the antipodes. 5 more years of Mayism is a powerful reason to move on...
The people of NZ need healthcare too.
I will explore the options, but will max out my pension here first probably, and I would want to know where Fox Jr planned to go.
BTW, I am a beer drinking Liberal, I leave champagne to the Socialists.
I have done 25 years in the NHS, any debt that I owed it is paid off in triplicate
I also voted for Brexit. I did so because I believe my country and the world will be better off for it, including the poor. You do realise it is possible to disagree with your views without being morally reprobate? The tendency on much of the far left to delegitimise anyone that disagrees with them seems to have spread to the centre-left. It is an ugly habit and I don't like it.0 -
Poll leads are one thing but the Copeland result appeared to show hard evidence of Corbyn's toxicity in Labour heartlands across the north hence the decision to call a snap election and target the campaign in similar seats.justin124 said:
Possibly so - though I would have thought that the massive 20% Tory poll lead was the decisive factor. That ,in turn, may have been boosted by the by election win - though its impact should have faded away by mid-April.dodrade said:
Had the Tories not won Copeland in February the election would probably have never happened in the first place.justin124 said:Labour must now be regretting having timed the Copeland by-election for late February . Had it been scheduled for the same day as the local elections - as was Manchester Gorton - the by election would have been cancelled and there would have been no Tory gain to celebrate there.Whilst the Tories did retain the seat on June 8th by a smaller margin than at the by election, had the by election never taken place I strongly suspect that Labour would have held the seat. When a seat changes hands at a by election the party that makes the gain usually outperforms at the subsequent General Election. The results from Barrow and Workington do suggest that in the absence of a by election this would have been a Labour hold.
The local election results a month before show the strategy could (and arguably should) have worked, had it not been for the dreadful Tory campaign and Corbyn's ability to get out the youth vote.0 -
No problem then, we are Brexiting. We shall see how the poor do, and who is right.CornishJohn said:
I have helped out at homeless shelters. I have helped run summer camps for street orphans. I always run all my old clothes to the local Oxfam. I have spent months of my life fundraising for vulnerable children. My wife and I gave a four figure sum to a health charity to celebrate our wedding.foxinsoxuk said:
On the contrary, it was the Brexiteers that demonstrated that they do not care about the poorest in society.freetochoose said:
Exactly - why not? But drop your constant bollox about caring for the poorest in society, you don't give a fuck for them.foxinsoxuk said:
Plenty of bullish PB Brexiteers live abroad.Why not Remainders too?freetochoose said:
Hey I respect your rights, it just makes your constant handwringing seem completely self indulgent.foxinsoxuk said:
It is them headhunting me.freetochoose said:foxinsoxuk said:freetochoose said:foxinsoxuk said:
Brexiteers can look after them.freetochoose said:
What about the poor people you'll leave behind clinging to the raft?foxinsoxuk said:
That percentage includes people like me who think it is a self destructive folly, but more important to carry through the democratic vote.isam said:Even George admits it
https://twitter.com/standardnews/status/880153076061020160
Interesting link in the article, suggesting quite an exodus of highly skilled workers.
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/almost-half-of-highlyskilled-eu-workers-considering-leaving-uk-after-brexit-study-finds-a3573736.html
I have been head hunted again for a job in the antipodes. 5 more years of Mayism is a powerful reason to move on...
The people of NZ need healthcare too.
I will explore the options, but will max out my pension here first probably, and I would want to know where Fox Jr planned to go.
BTW, I am a beer drinking Liberal, I leave champagne to the Socialists.
I have done 25 years in the NHS, any debt that I owed it is paid off in triplicate
I also voted for Brexit. I did so because I believe my country and the world will be better off for it, including the poor. You do realise it is possible to disagree with your views without being morally reprobate? The tendency on much of the far left to delegitimise anyone that disagrees with them seems to have spread to the centre-left. It is an ugly habit and I don't like it.0 -
Evening. I see my initial Ireland comment triggered a hearty debate!
Managing the border post Brexit is going to be tricky, and not just for the obvious cultural reasons. It's a very long border - much longer than the Welsh and Scots borders - winds in and out, includes a sizeable pene-enclave and crosses many tiny rural roads. There are some sections on rivers, most notably on the Foyle in heavily nationalist Derry. As someone mentioned downthread, it is a geographical nonsense - it isn't even coterminous with the ancient region of Ulster. It was simply drawn up to create a Protestant safe space in the north. That religion is dwindling in adherents, so if the border had to be drawn today it would likely look pretty different.0 -
0
-
@SkyNewsBreak: Retired Court of Appeal judge Sir Martin Moore-Bick has been appointed to lead the public inquiry into the Grenfell Tower fire0
-
Just catching up on the thread.
I see Lady Sylvia voted with Labour.
Yet another PB Sure Thing disintegrated.0 -
That fellow in the photo is this brave PC.Scott_P said:Are they going to screw this up too?
https://twitter.com/thetimes/status/880172114338353153
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-404326730 -
The most probable result of a vote for re-unification would be a giant "Feck!" from Dublin. Supporting Northern Ireland financially would be budget busting for them.HYUFD said:
In any case it is only powersharing at Stormont which has prevented a return to violence, if Northern Ireland narrowly voted for reunification with the Republic due to Catholic votes and the Irish government decided to scrap Stormont and add NI MPs to the Dail instead with direct rule from Dublin there would be a risk of loyalist paramilitaries launching terrorist attacks on the Irish capital as much as there would be a risk of the IRA launching terrorist attacks on London again if Stormont was scrapped by the UK government and direct rule imposed from WestminsterEPG said:
Well, indeed. Everything's a special case. General rules are inadmissible. Campaigns matter, hugely.HYUFD said:
It didn't happen in Scotland, Trump and Corbyn were at general elections and none won the popular vote and the pro Brexit vote was built on a similar coalition to the Unionist vote in NIEPG said:
Like Brexitrumpcorbyn, the polls are against it and all we know about voters and their traditional habits tells us it won't happen, until the campaign starts and maybe it does.RoyalBlue said:I don't see a United Ireland in my lifetime. The Unionist vote in a border poll would be significantly greater than support for Unionist parties in normal elections, and as Northern Ireland gets more diverse I don't see those outside the Protestant/Catholic split being more Nationalist than Unionist.
Fear of disruption will be enough, even when Protestants are the minority. I also expect the Republic's enthusiasm for unification will diminish over time.
There is no chance of a return to violence. All the top guys would lose their 6 figure salaries from their multiple non-jobs they don't do.0 -
Watching PMQ's. Theresa doing well..0
-
The problem of Irish unification has elements that are financial, but the fundamental problem is cultural.Malmesbury said:
The most probable result of a vote for re-unification would be a giant "Feck!" from Dublin. Supporting Northern Ireland financially would be budget busting for them.HYUFD said:
In any case it is only powersharing at Stormont which has prevented a return to violence, if Northern Ireland narrowly voted for reunification with the Republic due to Catholic votes and the Irish government decided to scrap Stormont and add NI MPs to the Dail instead with direct rule from Dublin there would be a risk of loyalist paramilitaries launching terrorist attacks on the Irish capital as much as there would be a risk of the IRA launching terrorist attacks on London again if Stormont was scrapped by the UK government and direct rule imposed from WestminsterEPG said:
Well, indeed. Everything's a special case. General rules are inadmissible. Campaigns matter, hugely.HYUFD said:
It didn't happen in Scotland, Trump and Corbyn were at general elections and none won the popular vote and the pro Brexit vote was built on a similar coalition to the Unionist vote in NIEPG said:
Like Brexitrumpcorbyn, the polls are against it and all we know about voters and their traditional habits tells us it won't happen, until the campaign starts and maybe it does.RoyalBlue said:I don't see a United Ireland in my lifetime. The Unionist vote in a border poll would be significantly greater than support for Unionist parties in normal elections, and as Northern Ireland gets more diverse I don't see those outside the Protestant/Catholic split being more Nationalist than Unionist.
Fear of disruption will be enough, even when Protestants are the minority. I also expect the Republic's enthusiasm for unification will diminish over time.
There is no chance of a return to violence. All the top guys would lose their 6 figure salaries from their multiple non-jobs they don't do.
The Irish tricolour symbolises peace between the two traditions of Ireland, the orange and green. Ireland would be a very different country with a million protestants.
Ireland has increasingly moved away from its De Valera style insular catholicism, but would need to move far further in the direction of secular multiculturism to function politically.
NI as an autonomous region with devo max within Ireland, or as a separate EU country are further options, but all present other difficulties.0 -
I know PMQs under Bercow have started to drag on a bit, but.....GIN1138 said:Watching PMQ's. Theresa doing well..
0 -
It's our GIN's version of late night entertainment.FrancisUrquhart said:
I know PMQs under Bercow have started to drag on a bit, but.....GIN1138 said:Watching PMQ's. Theresa doing well..
0 -
How many selections did she make for the child abuse one? I lost count, 3, 4?Scott_P said:Are they going to screw this up too?
twitter.com/thetimes/status/8801721143383531530 -
LOL!FrancisUrquhart said:
I know PMQs under Bercow have started to drag on a bit, but.....GIN1138 said:Watching PMQ's. Theresa doing well..
0 -
I live very strange hours...RobD said:
It's our GIN's version of late night entertainment.FrancisUrquhart said:
I know PMQs under Bercow have started to drag on a bit, but.....GIN1138 said:Watching PMQ's. Theresa doing well..
0 -
New thread.............0
-
As time goes on, the chances of re-unification are actually going down.foxinsoxuk said:
The problem of Irish unification has elements that are financial, but the fundamental problem is cultural.Malmesbury said:
The most probable result of a vote for re-unification would be a giant "Feck!" from Dublin. Supporting Northern Ireland financially would be budget busting for them.HYUFD said:
:EPG said:
Well, indeed. Everything's a special case. General rules are inadmissible. Campaigns matter, hugely.HYUFD said:
It didn't happen in Scotland, Trump and Corbyn were at general elections and none won the popular vote and the pro Brexit vote was built on a similar coalition to the Unionist vote in NIEPG said:
Like Brexitrumpcorbyn, the polls are against it and all we know about voters and their traditional habits tells us it won't happen, until the campaign starts and maybe it does.RoyalBlue said:I don't see a United Ireland in my lifetime. The Unionist vote in a border poll would be significantly greater than support for Unionist parties in normal elections, and as Northern Ireland gets more diverse I don't see those outside the Protestant/Catholic split being more Nationalist than Unionist.
Fear of disruption will be enough, even when Protestants are the minority. I also expect the Republic's enthusiasm for unification will diminish over time.
There is no chance of a return to violence. All the top guys would lose their 6 figure salaries from their multiple non-jobs they don't do.
The Irish tricolour symbolises peace between the two traditions of Ireland, the orange and green. Ireland would be a very different country with a million protestants.
Ireland has increasingly moved away from its De Valera style insular catholicism, but would need to move far further in the direction of secular multiculturism to function politically.
NI as an autonomous region with devo max within Ireland, or as a separate EU country are further options, but all present other difficulties.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Ireland#/media/File:Northern_Ireland_Life_and_Times_Survey_constitutional_preference.png
Consider this - when the Shiners were openly trying to bomb their way to a United Ireland, more than a third of their voters indicated in opinion polls that they would vote no in a referendum. Yes, they were voting for "bomb the Brits Out of Ireland" but not actually wanting the Brits Out.0
This discussion has been closed.