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edited October 2013 in General

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  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    Double First!
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,769
    Liberal climate hawks like nuclear power because it's low-carbon and right-wing people like it despite it being a huge, expensive, centralized, subsidized big-government boondoggle it because it's connected to nuclear weapons and annoys hippies. We need more research into focussing the nation's solar panels into some kind of inter-continental death-ray so we can firm up the cross-party consensus on them a well.
  • RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413
    Surprised to see LibDem supporters in favour. Presumably Labour supporters are just being curmudgeonly.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,128
    Supplementary question: THe wholesale cost of energy is £45/Megawatt. In order to build a nuclear station a guarantee of £90 / mwatt hr must be given. Is this a good thing or a bad thing.

    I'm all in favour of nuclear... At the right price.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,128
    On balance it is probably better than wind...
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited October 2013
    FPT
    RichardNabavi said:

    Jonathan said:

    Should private hospitals have the freedom to choose between 'qualified' or 'unqualified' doctors?


    No, and nor do they, although I believe they can recognise qualifications other than UK ones.

    So what? We have a perfect example in the UK of why the same doesn't apply to schools, since our excellent private schools, which includes some world-class schools by any standard, seem to be able to manage massively better than state schools but employing some so-called 'unqualified' teachers.

    It is one of the odd blindspots of the left that they don't understand the difference between cases where you need regulation and cases where you don't. All the more odd in this case since we have examples proving that you don't.
    Richard

    And the left also focus far too much on input, process and producer interests rather than on output and customer satisfaction.

    When invited to tea, they spend their time comparing recipes rather than tasting cakes.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,808
    edited October 2013
    RichardNabavi said:

    Surprised to see LibDem supporters in favour. Presumably Labour supporters are just being curmudgeonly.

    Ever since Vince Cable said he had a nuclear weapon and wasn't afraid to use it, Lib Dem supporters have been in favour of all things nuclear.

  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    I have no problem with nuclear

    This little pix is rather fun.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BXF0KoPCQAAMIXJ.png
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,128
    Out of interest is the £90/MWatt a 'level' fee for the next 35 years ? Even though that is double today's cost once you factor in inflation over 35 years it is probably worth it, and doesn't seem too bad a deal. Unless I'm misunderstanding something.
  • Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664
    That is to me the most surprising poll in living memory; particularly the fact that even LDs are in favour by a clear majority.

    It would be riveting to see a comparable poll from just after Fukushima.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,808
    I wonder if NIMBYism will become a factor.

    I'm in favour of nuclear power but don't want a nuclear power station in my back yard.

    Can anyone tell me when the last nuclear power station was built in this country?
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Ishmael_X said:

    That is to me the most surprising poll in living memory; particularly the fact that even LDs are in favour by a clear majority.

    It would be riveting to see a comparable poll from just after Fukushima.

    The incredible ill-informed nonsense that came as a result of Fukushima just depressed me. We aren't in an earthquake zone and the chances of being hit by a tidal wave are vanishingly small - but the Germans went all ARGH!!!! and so ended up buying nuclear powered electricity from France instead... *scratches head*
  • PolruanPolruan Posts: 2,083
    edited October 2013
    AveryLP said:

    FPT

    RichardNabavi said:

    Jonathan said:

    Should private hospitals have the freedom to choose between 'qualified' or 'unqualified' doctors?


    No, and nor do they, although I believe they can recognise qualifications other than UK ones.

    So what? We have a perfect example in the UK of why the same doesn't apply to schools, since our excellent private schools, which includes some world-class schools by any standard, seem to be able to manage massively better than state schools but employing some so-called 'unqualified' teachers.

    It is one of the odd blindspots of the left that they don't understand the difference between cases where you need regulation and cases where you don't. All the more odd in this case since we have examples proving that you don't.
    Richard

    And the left also focus far too much on input, process and producer interests rather than on output and customer satisfaction.

    When invited to tea, they spend their time comparing recipes rather than tasting cakes.
    So, when they taste a really good cake, rather than throwing their hands up exclaiming "WOOOAHHH! YOU'RE SOME KIND OF GENIUS MAGIC CAKE WIZARD!!! YOU MUST HAVE MADE AN AMAZING SACRIFICE TO THE CAKE GODS!" they say "that's nice - can I have the recipe so I can make a good one too?"

    effing left wing weirdos, eh?
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    tim said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Out of interest is the £90/MWatt a 'level' fee for the next 35 years ? Even though that is double today's cost once you factor in inflation over 35 years it is probably worth it, and doesn't seem too bad a deal. Unless I'm misunderstanding something.

    It goes up with inflation
    Unlike current energy supplies which go up at treble the rate of annual CPI inflation.

    There's the rub, tim.

    By 2025 £90/MWatt is likely to be cheap!

  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    Pulpstar said:

    Out of interest is the £90/MWatt a 'level' fee for the next 35 years ? Even though that is double today's cost once you factor in inflation over 35 years it is probably worth it, and doesn't seem too bad a deal. Unless I'm misunderstanding something.

    It's a floor price, that will be uprated by CPI. So if the market price goes above £92.50 then they will receive the market price, and if below they will receive their £92.50, or whatever it is after a decade of CPI.
  • GasmanGasman Posts: 132
    AveryLP said:

    FPT

    RichardNabavi said:

    Jonathan said:

    Should private hospitals have the freedom to choose between 'qualified' or 'unqualified' doctors?


    No, and nor do they, although I believe they can recognise qualifications other than UK ones.

    So what? We have a perfect example in the UK of why the same doesn't apply to schools, since our excellent private schools, which includes some world-class schools by any standard, seem to be able to manage massively better than state schools but employing some so-called 'unqualified' teachers.

    It is one of the odd blindspots of the left that they don't understand the difference between cases where you need regulation and cases where you don't. All the more odd in this case since we have examples proving that you don't.
    Richard

    And the left also focus far too much on input, process and producer interests rather than on output and customer satisfaction.

    When invited to tea, they spend their time comparing recipes rather than tasting cakes.
    FPT, Private (and NHS) hospitals do have the freedom to choose unqualified doctors in this country. Whereas with animals only qualified vets are allowed to treat them, with humans anyone is allowed to treat them (subject to consent). It's how nurse practitioners are able to do many things previously restricted to doctors only in NHS hospitals whereas in a vets practice would result in the vet being struck off
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,128
    Plato said:

    Ishmael_X said:

    That is to me the most surprising poll in living memory; particularly the fact that even LDs are in favour by a clear majority.

    It would be riveting to see a comparable poll from just after Fukushima.

    The incredible ill-informed nonsense that came as a result of Fukushima just depressed me. We aren't in an earthquake zone and the chances of being hit by a tidal wave are vanishingly small - but the Germans went all ARGH!!!! and so ended up buying nuclear powered electricity from France instead... *scratches head*
    Terrorism is probably the biggest existential threat in this country to our nuclear. Btw Coal power stations are actually more harmful due to radioactivity than Nuclear ones (I think). Fun fact :).
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,128
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    I wonder if NIMBYism will become a factor.

    I'm in favour of nuclear power but don't want a nuclear power station in my back yard.

    Can anyone tell me when the last nuclear power station was built in this country?

    What happens if we build one in Scotland ?
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Can anyone tell me when the last nuclear power station was built in this country?

    Sizewell B, I think.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sizewell_nuclear_power_stations#Sizewell_B

    Onto the grid in 1995.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,128
    tim said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Out of interest is the £90/MWatt a 'level' fee for the next 35 years ? Even though that is double today's cost once you factor in inflation over 35 years it is probably worth it, and doesn't seem too bad a deal. Unless I'm misunderstanding something.

    It goes up with inflation
    What a terrible deal lol :/
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    I wonder if NIMBYism will become a factor.

    I'm in favour of nuclear power but don't want a nuclear power station in my back yard.

    Can anyone tell me when the last nuclear power station was built in this country?

    Hinkley site is already there - knowing people in the area (ANECDOTE !!) it's not the gigantic pile of radioactive material that is the issue it's the poor links for the short distance to the M5 which will be chock a block full of enormo trucks for the next 10 years that gets their goat.

    Massive boost to the local economy though.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,338
    Paul Waugh ‏@paulwaugh 3m
    Oh dear. Ed Davey just admitted on SkyNews he's asked EDF chief today what their price hike wd be and was rebuffed.

    Ed Davey not having a good day with the media. Now how will he cope if MPs have a go at him?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,128
    Does anyone have a graph of energy 'base' cost or some data figures anywhere. I'd like to have a gander.
  • dugarbandierdugarbandier Posts: 2,596
    edmundintokyo said:

    Liberal climate hawks like nuclear power because it's low-carbon and right-wing people like it despite it being a huge, expensive, centralized, subsidized big-government boondoggle it because it's connected to nuclear weapons and annoys hippies. We need more research into focussing the nation's solar panels into some kind of inter-continental death-ray so we can firm up the cross-party consensus on them a well.

    how do you feel about it Edmund? you're a bit closer to Fukushima than I am.

    For my part I'm hoping Nuclear gets back online ASAP. mainly from a climate point of view, but also abenomics-wise, depressing the Yen while importing loads of gas doesn't seem like a fine idea.

    Its my impression that solar still involves digging lots of stuff out of mines? (rare earth metals etc) (i could be wrong here)
  • RicardohosRicardohos Posts: 258
    I'm not unhappy with the findings of this poll but it's yet another with questionable wording. 'Significant increase' is the main issue, words which are loaded.

    There are far too many voodoo polls around at the moment, or perhaps it is fairer to say, established pollsters asking voodoo questions.

    Take all of this non-established questions with a massive pinch of salt.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    Polruan said:

    AveryLP said:

    FPT

    RichardNabavi said:

    Jonathan said:

    Should private hospitals have the freedom to choose between 'qualified' or 'unqualified' doctors?


    No, and nor do they, although I believe they can recognise qualifications other than UK ones.

    So what? We have a perfect example in the UK of why the same doesn't apply to schools, since our excellent private schools, which includes some world-class schools by any standard, seem to be able to manage massively better than state schools but employing some so-called 'unqualified' teachers.

    It is one of the odd blindspots of the left that they don't understand the difference between cases where you need regulation and cases where you don't. All the more odd in this case since we have examples proving that you don't.
    Richard

    And the left also focus far too much on input, process and producer interests rather than on output and customer satisfaction.

    When invited to tea, they spend their time comparing recipes rather than tasting cakes.
    So, when they taste a really good cake, rather than throwing their hands up exclaiming "WOOOAHHH! YOU'RE SOME KIND OF GENIUS MAGIC CAKE WIZARD!!! YOU MUST HAVE MADE AN AMAZING SACRIFICE TO THE CAKE GODS!" they say "that's nice - can I have the recipe so I can make a good one too?"

    effing left wing weirdos, eh?
    It depends on copyright issues, Polruan.

    My pastry chef trained at the Savoy Hotel and qualified at a Catering College. The recipes may well be commercial secrets and the techniques deployed unsuitable for a domestic kitchen.

    Good as the cakes are, they nowhere near match those my mother makes. She looks her recipes up on the internet. Similar to the way in which a teacher prepares for a history lesson. No harm in sharing URLs in this instance.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,896
    Good afternoon, everyone.

    Huzzah for nuclear power! Must admit it reminds me of 8-bit Theater - http://www.nuklearpower.com/8-bit-theater/

    FPT: Mr. Fear, I agree, but would add that Rome declined when family dynasties and personal power meant that politics became less public-centred and more about dynamic individuals. When armies started being more loyal to generals than the Senate the long-term decline occurred (perhaps it could've been avoided if Marcus Aurelius hadn't been such a bloody fool and let Commodus become his heir).

    F1: Indian early discussion is up here: http://enormo-haddock.blogspot.co.uk/2013/10/india-early-discussion.html
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,769
    Pulpstar said:

    Plato said:

    Ishmael_X said:

    That is to me the most surprising poll in living memory; particularly the fact that even LDs are in favour by a clear majority.

    It would be riveting to see a comparable poll from just after Fukushima.

    The incredible ill-informed nonsense that came as a result of Fukushima just depressed me. We aren't in an earthquake zone and the chances of being hit by a tidal wave are vanishingly small - but the Germans went all ARGH!!!! and so ended up buying nuclear powered electricity from France instead... *scratches head*
    Terrorism is probably the biggest existential threat in this country to our nuclear. Btw Coal power stations are actually more harmful due to radioactivity than Nuclear ones (I think). Fun fact :).
    Nuclear power has a lot of.openings for terrorists, particularly denial of service. Since nuclear power is (justifiably) very paranoidly run, you wouldn't need much of a credible threat to get the whole thing shut down. A couple of big guns on a small boat off the Suffolk coast or something - you wouldn't even have to get close to a successful attack to get the media terrorising the populace on your behalf and the regulators turning out the lights to cover their arses.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Speaking of NIMBYS...

    norman smith ‏@BBCNormanS 19m
    #Hinkley deal is " colossal waste of resources" say @theSNP "the Govt is forcing people to pay through the nose for nuclear white elephants"

    Any update on the Grangemouth stand off ?
  • Matt1001Matt1001 Posts: 15
    Labour lead down to 3 points in latest Populus:-

    Lab 37% (-2%) Cons 34% (nc) LD 14% (+2%) UKIP 8% (nc)

    I expect Yougov will show a smaller lead tomorrow morning. Last one had 6% - seems like a slightly Labour-skewed one IMO, especially looking at the data.

    Overall Labour lead seems to be down to 3-5% taking into account all pollsters.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,124
    TGOHF said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    I wonder if NIMBYism will become a factor.

    I'm in favour of nuclear power but don't want a nuclear power station in my back yard.

    Can anyone tell me when the last nuclear power station was built in this country?

    Hinkley site is already there - knowing people in the area (ANECDOTE !!) it's not the gigantic pile of radioactive material that is the issue it's the poor links for the short distance to the M5 which will be chock a block full of enormo trucks for the next 10 years that gets their goat.

    Massive boost to the local economy though.
    Nuclear power stations (as opposed to reprocessing and experimental sites) tend to be popular amongst the local populations. There was a Look East program on a while back about locals protesting *for* a Sizewell C plant.

    This is almost certainly why the government has chosen for new stations to go where there were old stations - they were the right locations then, and they will be the right locations now (except perhaps for Wylfa, given the closure of the attached aluminium smelter which took much of the power).

    As someone noted below, Sizewell B was the last nuclear power station built in the UK, in the mid-1990s. It was a new PWR design that was due to be the first of many. Sadly, it was just the first and last.

    Remember than Sizewell B's planning inquiry took a massive three yearts, and 16 million words of evidence. Somehow I think the new stations at Hinkley are not having that same sort of process ...
  • BobajobBobajob Posts: 1,536
    CarlottaVance said:

    Double First!

    Please take this in the spirit it is intended Carlotta - are you a man or a woman? I just want to avoid the wrong pronoun.

  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited October 2013
    TGOHF said:

    Speaking of NIMBYS...

    norman smith ‏@BBCNormanS 19m
    #Hinkley deal is " colossal waste of resources" say @theSNP "the Govt is forcing people to pay through the nose for nuclear white elephants"

    Any update on the Grangemouth stand off ?

    Has Hinkley Point been floated around Wales, past the Isle of Man, and provocatively moored at the mouth of the Clyde?
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 40,054
    AveryLP said:

    Polruan said:

    AveryLP said:

    FPT

    RichardNabavi said:

    Jonathan said:

    Should private hospitals have the freedom to choose between 'qualified' or 'unqualified' doctors?


    No, and nor do they, although I believe they can recognise qualifications other than UK ones.

    So what? We have a perfect example in the UK of why the same doesn't apply to schools, since our excellent private schools, which includes some world-class schools by any standard, seem to be able to manage massively better than state schools but employing some so-called 'unqualified' teachers.

    It is one of the odd blindspots of the left that they don't understand the difference between cases where you need regulation and cases where you don't. All the more odd in this case since we have examples proving that you don't.
    Richard

    And the left also focus far too much on input, process and producer interests rather than on output and customer satisfaction.

    When invited to tea, they spend their time comparing recipes rather than tasting cakes.
    So, when they taste a really good cake, rather than throwing their hands up exclaiming "WOOOAHHH! YOU'RE SOME KIND OF GENIUS MAGIC CAKE WIZARD!!! YOU MUST HAVE MADE AN AMAZING SACRIFICE TO THE CAKE GODS!" they say "that's nice - can I have the recipe so I can make a good one too?"

    effing left wing weirdos, eh?
    It depends on copyright issues, Polruan.

    My pastry chef trained at the Savoy Hotel and qualified at a Catering College. The recipes may well be commercial secrets and the techniques deployed unsuitable for a domestic kitchen.

    Good as the cakes are, they nowhere near match those my mother makes. She looks her recipes up on the internet. Similar to the way in which a teacher prepares for a history lesson. No harm in sharing URLs in this instance.

    You can't get a copyright a recipe Avery. You might be able to protect its fixed expression though.

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,808
    Pulpstar - We would rue the day if we built one in Scotland.

    Mr Me - Thanks. So none commissioned under new Lab?

    TGOHF - They should build them in Labour heartlands, so if anything bad happens it will only effect those desolate parts of the country and not the Tory shires.
  • BobajobBobajob Posts: 1,536
    dugarbandier said:

    edmundintokyo said:

    Liberal climate hawks like nuclear power because it's low-carbon and right-wing people like it despite it being a huge, expensive, centralized, subsidized big-government boondoggle it because it's connected to nuclear weapons and annoys hippies. We need more research into focussing the nation's solar panels into some kind of inter-continental death-ray so we can firm up the cross-party consensus on them a well.

    I

    how do you feel about it Edmund? you're a bit closer to Fukushima than I am.

    For my part I'm hoping Nuclear gets back online ASAP. mainly from a climate point of view, but also abenomics-wise, depressing the Yen while importing loads of gas doesn't seem like a fine idea.

    Its my impression that solar still involves digging lots of stuff out of mines? (rare earth metals etc) (i could be wrong here)
    I've no in principle problem with nuclear other than it is bleeding pricey. Not sure what happened to tidal - we'd be world leaders in that (possibly net exporters) if we pulled our fingers out. Wind is fairly flawed due to its intermittancy (although helps contribute).

    So tidal?

  • BobajobBobajob Posts: 1,536
    RichardNabavi said:

    Surprised to see LibDem supporters in favour. Presumably Labour supporters are just being curmudgeonly.

    Labourites are also net in favour Richard
  • RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413
    edited October 2013
    Bobajob said:

    RichardNabavi said:

    Surprised to see LibDem supporters in favour. Presumably Labour supporters are just being curmudgeonly.

    Labourites are also net in favour Richard
    True, but I was expecting them to be more in favour than LibDem supporters.

    Actually, looking at the figures again, the difference might well be within the MOE.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Anorak said:

    TGOHF said:

    Speaking of NIMBYS...

    norman smith ‏@BBCNormanS 19m
    #Hinkley deal is " colossal waste of resources" say @theSNP "the Govt is forcing people to pay through the nose for nuclear white elephants"

    Any update on the Grangemouth stand off ?

    Has Hinkley Point been floated around Wales, past the Isle of Man, and provocatively moored at the mouth of the Clyde?
    Interesting that there was no scottish sub sample in the bars above ?

    Do the Scots hate nuclear everything as much as the SNP claim ?
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Mr Me - Thanks. So none commissioned under new Lab?

    No, none under New Labour, and construction of Sizewell B started in 1987, so we haven't seen the construction of a nuclear power station start since the days of Thatcher in No. 10.

    Interesting to note that Wikipedia states that Sizewell B was first announced in 1969.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,769
    dugarbandier said:

    edmundintokyo said:

    Liberal climate hawks like nuclear power because it's low-carbon and right-wing people like it despite it being a huge, expensive, centralized, subsidized big-government boondoggle it because it's connected to nuclear weapons and annoys hippies. We need more research into focussing the nation's solar panels into some kind of inter-continental death-ray so we can firm up the cross-party consensus on them a well.

    how do you feel about it Edmund? you're a bit closer to Fukushima than I am.

    For my part I'm hoping Nuclear gets back online ASAP. mainly from a climate point of view, but also abenomics-wise, depressing the Yen while importing loads of gas doesn't seem like a fine idea.

    Its my impression that solar still involves digging lots of stuff out of mines? (rare earth metals etc) (i could be wrong here)
    I think we should make the operators buy full, comprehensive, private-sector insurance, including against unusual events like 1000-year tsunamis, then let the free market figure it out.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,124
    Anorak said:

    TGOHF said:

    Speaking of NIMBYS...

    norman smith ‏@BBCNormanS 19m
    #Hinkley deal is " colossal waste of resources" say @theSNP "the Govt is forcing people to pay through the nose for nuclear white elephants"

    Any update on the Grangemouth stand off ?

    Has Hinkley Point been floated around Wales, past the Isle of Man, and provocatively moored at the mouth of the Clyde?
    Torness is relatively near Edinburgh.
    Hunterston is the nearest to Glasgow.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torness_nuclear_power_station
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunterston_B_nuclear_power_station

    What'll happen to the Vulcan NRTE at Dounreay after independence is quite another matter, especially if we go ahead with a Trident replacement.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dounreay#Vulcan_NRTE
  • BobajobBobajob Posts: 1,536
    AveryLP said:

    Polruan said:

    AveryLP said:

    FPT

    RichardNabavi said:

    Jonathan said:

    Should private hospitals have the freedom to choose between 'qualified' or 'unqualified' doctors?


    No, and nor do they, although I believe they can recognise qualifications other than UK ones.

    So what? We have a perfect example in the UK of why the same doesn't apply to schools, since our excellent private schools, which includes some world-class schools by any standard, seem to be able to manage massively better than state schools but employing some so-called 'unqualified' teachers.

    It is one of the odd blindspots of the left that they don't understand the difference between cases where you need regulation and cases where you don't. All the more odd in this case since we have examples proving that you don't.
    Richard

    And the left also focus far too much on input, process and producer interests rather than on output and customer satisfaction.

    When invited to tea, they spend their time comparing recipes rather than tasting cakes.
    So, when they taste a really good cake, rather than throwing their hands up exclaiming "WOOOAHHH! YOU'RE SOME KIND OF GENIUS MAGIC CAKE WIZARD!!! YOU MUST HAVE MADE AN AMAZING SACRIFICE TO THE CAKE GODS!" they say "that's nice - can I have the recipe so I can make a good one too?"

    effing left wing weirdos, eh?
    It depends on copyright issues, Polruan.

    My pastry chef trained at the Savoy Hotel and qualified at a Catering College. The recipes may well be commercial secrets and the techniques deployed unsuitable for a domestic kitchen.

    Good as the cakes are, they nowhere near match those my mother makes. She looks her recipes up on the internet. Similar to the way in which a teacher prepares for a history lesson. No harm in sharing URLs in this instance.
    @Avery - true story: I once spoke to a multi-Michelin starred chef (no names mentioned) who admitted stealing a recipe from a rival's house at a party. He returned it, as I recall, but scanned it first

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,896
    Mr. Ajob, there ws some news a few months ago about tidal. In southwest Wales they're creating an artificial lagoon which will enable tidal energy to be continuously harvested, I believe.

    If we can get tidal to work, obviously that'd be perfect for us.
  • BobajobBobajob Posts: 1,536
    RichardNabavi said:

    Bobajob said:

    RichardNabavi said:

    Surprised to see LibDem supporters in favour. Presumably Labour supporters are just being curmudgeonly.

    Labourites are also net in favour Richard
    True, but I was expecting them to be more in favour than LibDem supporters.

    Actually, looking at the figures again, the difference might well be within the MOE.
    True - I too expected a different result for our sandalista friends
  • BobajobBobajob Posts: 1,536
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Pulpstar - We would rue the day if we built one in Scotland.

    Mr Me - Thanks. So none commissioned under new Lab?

    TGOHF - They should build them in Labour heartlands, so if anything bad happens it will only effect those desolate parts of the country and not the Tory shires.

    I hear there is a big eff-off brownfield site in west Sheffield, TSE.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Scottish subsample is 50 good, 30 bad, 21 don't know.

    London is 39/33/28

    So the Scots love nuclear power more than London.

    Why are the SNP so against it ?
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    TheScreamingEagles said:


    Mr Me - Thanks. So none commissioned under new Lab?

    That generation of nuclear power plants had the rug pulled from under it by various privatisations in the electric / nuclear industries under the last Tory government.
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    JosiasJessop said:

    This is almost certainly why the government has chosen for new stations to go where there were old stations - they were the right locations then, and they will be the right locations now (except perhaps for Wylfa, given the closure of the attached aluminium smelter which took much of the power).

    I did read that there is an overall flow from north to south of electricity in the grid, presumably because of the reductions in northern industry and the movement of population south since most of our power stations were built.

    It probably isn't then a coincidence that the two sites that have been mentioned most often are Hinkley in Somerset and Sizewell in Suffolk.

    Interestingly, some of the larger offshore arrays of wind turbines are planned for, or have been built in, the south - the London and Atlantic Arrays. Any tidal scheme across the Bristol Channel would also help with the geographical balance.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,808
    Bobajob said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Pulpstar - We would rue the day if we built one in Scotland.

    Mr Me - Thanks. So none commissioned under new Lab?

    TGOHF - They should build them in Labour heartlands, so if anything bad happens it will only effect those desolate parts of the country and not the Tory shires.

    I hear there is a big eff-off brownfield site in west Sheffield, TSE.
    IKEA got there first and are building a store there soon.

  • BobajobBobajob Posts: 1,536
    SeanT said:

    There is definitely a significant property bubble in London. I've been watching house prices in my area.

    Check this:

    http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-43684409.html

    A fair average converted-warehouse flat, with 1 bed, in a pleasant but not amazing part of Camden. Note the IKEA furniture.

    £675,000???

    Even more insane, this impressive loft style apartment costs £800,000

    http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-40691617.html

    .... in Hackney.

    £800,000 for a one bed flat in.... Hackney.

    Surely unsustainable. And yet is is sustained. Hmm.

    It's crazy madness Sean - at least your area is nice. Hackney is the crime ridden badlands - terrible schools, poor services, indifferent transport. Astounding numbers.
  • dugarbandierdugarbandier Posts: 2,596
    edmundintokyo said:



    I think we should make the operators buy full, comprehensive, private-sector insurance, including against unusual events like 1000-year tsunamis, then let the free market figure it out.

    are there any free markets in the energy sector?

    are you also making the operators of the fossil fuel plants insure against the effects of climate change? :)

    and where is Japan's geothermal sector?

    goodnight all!

  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    Ricardohos said:

    I'm not unhappy with the findings of this poll but it's yet another with questionable wording. 'Significant increase' is the main issue, words which are loaded.

    I would be guessing, but I would expect that "significant increase" would be expected to give more opposition to nuclear power, compared to asking the question in terms of "replacing existing stations to maintain the same level of nuclear power", ie maintain the status quo.

    Given that, does it not make the large majority in favour even more notable?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    JosiasJessop said:

    Anorak said:

    TGOHF said:

    Speaking of NIMBYS...

    norman smith ‏@BBCNormanS 19m
    #Hinkley deal is " colossal waste of resources" say @theSNP "the Govt is forcing people to pay through the nose for nuclear white elephants"

    Any update on the Grangemouth stand off ?

    Has Hinkley Point been floated around Wales, past the Isle of Man, and provocatively moored at the mouth of the Clyde?
    What'll happen to the Vulcan NRTE at Dounreay after independence is quite another matter, especially if we go ahead with a Trident replacement.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dounreay#Vulcan_NRTE
    "In 2011 the MoD stated that NRTE could be scaled down or closed after 2015 when the current series of tests ends. Computer modelling and confidence in new reactor designs meant testing would no longer be necessary.[18] The cost of decommissioning NRTE facilities when they become redundant, including nuclear waste disposal, was estimated at £2.1 billion in 2005."

    I expect the SNP will claim it's being done out of spite....,
    "
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,124
    Neil said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:


    Mr Me - Thanks. So none commissioned under new Lab?

    That generation of nuclear power plants had the rug pulled from under it by various privatisations in the electric / nuclear industries under the last Tory government.
    The endless inquiries didn't exactly help much, either. There was massive controversy over Sizewell B, especially from the 'nuclear free zone' types. From memory, the government spent a great deal of political capital getting the thing built. Then again, I was quite young and rabidly pro-nuclear power. Indeed, more so than I am now.
  • BobajobBobajob Posts: 1,536
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Mr. Ajob, there ws some news a few months ago about tidal. In southwest Wales they're creating an artificial lagoon which will enable tidal energy to be continuously harvested, I believe.

    If we can get tidal to work, obviously that'd be perfect for us.

    Interesting news Morris. I'll take a look. As you say, would be a fantastic development for the UK.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,808
    OblitusSumMe said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Mr Me - Thanks. So none commissioned under new Lab?

    No, none under New Labour, and construction of Sizewell B started in 1987, so we haven't seen the construction of a nuclear power station start since the days of Thatcher in No. 10.

    Interesting to note that Wikipedia states that Sizewell B was first announced in 1969.
    1969?

    I've known ladies that have [moderated] quicker than British Nuclear Stations.

    Can't we annex France and build our nuclear power stations there?

    Time to enforce the Treaty of Troyes.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited October 2013
    Anorak said:

    TGOHF said:

    Speaking of NIMBYS...

    norman smith ‏@BBCNormanS 19m
    #Hinkley deal is " colossal waste of resources" say @theSNP "the Govt is forcing people to pay through the nose for nuclear white elephants"

    Any update on the Grangemouth stand off ?

    Has Hinkley Point been floated around Wales, past the Isle of Man, and provocatively moored at the mouth of the Clyde?
    Isn't it a bit like typefaces?

    You copyright the name (or the software) rather than the letter forms?

    I am sure I have only eaten real Sacher Torte.

    [This was meant to be a reply to Southam Observer's post on the fixed expression of cakes!

    Sorry Anorak and SO!]
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,128
    edited October 2013
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Bobajob said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Pulpstar - We would rue the day if we built one in Scotland.

    Mr Me - Thanks. So none commissioned under new Lab?

    TGOHF - They should build them in Labour heartlands, so if anything bad happens it will only effect those desolate parts of the country and not the Tory shires.

    I hear there is a big eff-off brownfield site in west Sheffield, TSE.
    IKEA got there first and are building a store there soon.

    Are you sure that is 'west' Sheffield TSE ?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,808
    Neil said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:


    Mr Me - Thanks. So none commissioned under new Lab?

    That generation of nuclear power plants had the rug pulled from under it by various privatisations in the electric / nuclear industries under the last Tory government.
    Link please.

  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 40,054
    SeanT said:

    There is definitely a significant property bubble in London. I've been watching house prices in my area.

    Check this:

    http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-43684409.html

    A fairly average converted-warehouse flat, with 1 bed, in a pleasant but not amazing part of Camden. Note the IKEA furniture.

    £675,000???

    Even more insane, this impressive loft style apartment costs £800,000

    http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-40691617.html

    .... in Hackney.

    £800,000 for a one bed flat in.... Hackney.

    Surely unsustainable. And yet is is sustained. Hmm.

    •1,561sq.ft One Bedroom Apartment

    1,561 square feet is pretty huge isn't it? Sounds like a whole top floor.

    You are better off drinking than watching property prices. They always apply to someone else's place. There's always a reason why yours does not get to dollar.

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,128
    "are there any free markets in the energy sector?"

    That is a very good point, as for power plants in Suffolk - are they not vulnerable to tidal surges a la 1953 ?
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Bobajob said:

    SeanT said:

    There is definitely a significant property bubble in London. I've been watching house prices in my area.

    Check this:

    http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-43684409.html

    A fair average converted-warehouse flat, with 1 bed, in a pleasant but not amazing part of Camden. Note the IKEA furniture.

    £675,000???

    Even more insane, this impressive loft style apartment costs £800,000

    http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-40691617.html

    .... in Hackney.

    £800,000 for a one bed flat in.... Hackney.

    Surely unsustainable. And yet is is sustained. Hmm.

    It's crazy madness Sean - at least your area is nice. Hackney is the crime ridden badlands - terrible schools, poor services, indifferent transport. Astounding numbers.
    We need a judge led enquiry into this outrage.

  • BobajobBobajob Posts: 1,536
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Bobajob said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Pulpstar - We would rue the day if we built one in Scotland.

    Mr Me - Thanks. So none commissioned under new Lab?

    TGOHF - They should build them in Labour heartlands, so if anything bad happens it will only effect those desolate parts of the country and not the Tory shires.

    I hear there is a big eff-off brownfield site in west Sheffield, TSE.
    IKEA got there first and are building a store there soon.

    It's all part of the same mixed use development.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,808
    So no new nuclear power stations commissioned whilst Ed was Energy Secretary?

    He's all fart and no follow through.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,765
    Pending any final issues, I just became one of those property owning bastards I love to hate! Two bedroom flat in Shepherds Bush! Absolutely stretched myself to the limit but I have agreed a large overpayment limit with Barclay's so I hope I can get my indebtedness down fairly rapidly. It is also a top floor flat with an undeveloped attic which I intend to develop in the future at some point for a new master bedroom.

    :D
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,128
    Bobajob said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Bobajob said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Pulpstar - We would rue the day if we built one in Scotland.

    Mr Me - Thanks. So none commissioned under new Lab?

    TGOHF - They should build them in Labour heartlands, so if anything bad happens it will only effect those desolate parts of the country and not the Tory shires.

    I hear there is a big eff-off brownfield site in west Sheffield, TSE.
    IKEA got there first and are building a store there soon.

    It's all part of the same mixed use development.
    Are you sure ? I thought IKEA was planning to build in Meadowhall, which is definitely on the east side of Sheffield. Have they changed their plans ?
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 40,054
    SouthamObserver said:

    SeanT said:

    There is definitely a significant property bubble in London. I've been watching house prices in my area.

    Check this:

    http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-43684409.html

    A fairly average converted-warehouse flat, with 1 bed, in a pleasant but not amazing part of Camden. Note the IKEA furniture.

    £675,000???

    Even more insane, this impressive loft style apartment costs £800,000

    http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-40691617.html

    .... in Hackney.

    £800,000 for a one bed flat in.... Hackney.

    Surely unsustainable. And yet is is sustained. Hmm.

    •1,561sq.ft One Bedroom Apartment

    1,561 square feet is pretty huge isn't it? Sounds like a whole top floor.

    You are better off drinking than watching property prices. They always apply to someone else's place. There's always a reason why yours does not get to dollar.

    I was thinking yards not feet. It's not a bad size for a one bedroomed place though.

  • BobajobBobajob Posts: 1,536
    MaxPB said:

    Pending any final issues, I just became one of those property owning bastards I love to hate! Two bedroom flat in Shepherds Bush! Absolutely stretched myself to the limit but I have agreed a large overpayment limit with Barclay's so I hope I can get my indebtedness down fairly rapidly. It is also a top floor flat with an undeveloped attic which I intend to develop in the future at some point for a new master bedroom.

    :D

    Very wise - the attics can be surprisingly large with a dormer, particularly on Edwardian stock - the Edwardians liked pointlessly large roofs for some reason

  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    On the nuclear strike price, one thing I'm not sure about is how the price floor works with economy 7?

    Since you can't turn nuclear power stations off overnight they tend to sell it extra-cheap during the night to encourage those that can use electricity at that time to do so - and for example pumped storage hydro stations will buy cheap electricity at night to pump water up so that they can generate electricity ta day letting the water fall back down again, which they sell at a higher price.

    So is the £92.50 a MWh an average price? A peak-time only price?

    There has to be some detail to make this work with pumped storage.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,124
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    OblitusSumMe said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Mr Me - Thanks. So none commissioned under new Lab?

    No, none under New Labour, and construction of Sizewell B started in 1987, so we haven't seen the construction of a nuclear power station start since the days of Thatcher in No. 10.

    Interesting to note that Wikipedia states that Sizewell B was first announced in 1969.
    1969?

    I've known ladies that have [moderated] quicker than British Nuclear Stations.

    Can't we annex France and build our nuclear power stations there?

    Time to enforce the Treaty of Troyes.
    The 1969 proposal for Sizewell B was for an AGR. This morphed into an SGHWR, and finally a PWR. Which shows one of the problems that bedevilled British nuclear power - unstandardised stations of differing designs, whose purpose in many cases was not just to generate power.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sizewell_nuclear_power_stations

    One of the lesser-known UK reactors was an SGHWR, at Winfrith in Dorset. Apparently the waste water outlet was into the sea by the Lulworth military range, and you would see steam rising from the sea from the cliff tops. At least according to a range warden we met.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winfrith

    There are old reactors all over the place - including one slap-bang in the centre of London. Anyone Geeky enough to know (or care) where?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,896
    Mr. Max, congratulations :)
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    MaxPB said:

    Pending any final issues, I just became one of those property owning bastards I love to hate! Two bedroom flat in Shepherds Bush! Absolutely stretched myself to the limit but I have agreed a large overpayment limit with Barclay's so I hope I can get my indebtedness down fairly rapidly. It is also a top floor flat with an undeveloped attic which I intend to develop in the future at some point for a new master bedroom.

    :D

    Make sure you own the attic space, Max.

    In most conversions with leasehold flats it is likely to be owned by the freeholder.

  • Matt1001Matt1001 Posts: 15
    The tightening in the latest Populus poll out today has just been confirmed on UKPR. Lead down to 3 points, Labour down 2 to 37%. All within the usual MOE, of course, but most recent polls do seem to suggest that the Tories are now within touching distance of Labour. Lead overall across all pollsters probably in the region of 3-5%.

    What price on the Tories being at most 4 or 5% behind in tomorrow's Yougov poll (i.e. the most recent 6% Yougov being on the higher side of MOE)?
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 40,054
    AveryLP said:

    Anorak said:

    TGOHF said:

    Speaking of NIMBYS...

    norman smith ‏@BBCNormanS 19m
    #Hinkley deal is " colossal waste of resources" say @theSNP "the Govt is forcing people to pay through the nose for nuclear white elephants"

    Any update on the Grangemouth stand off ?

    Has Hinkley Point been floated around Wales, past the Isle of Man, and provocatively moored at the mouth of the Clyde?
    Isn't it a bit like typefaces?

    You copyright the name (or the software) rather than the letter forms?

    I am sure I have only eaten real Sacher Torte.

    [This was meant to be a reply to Southam Observer's post on the fixed expression of cakes!

    Sorry Anorak and SO!]


    There may be a trademark issue around Sachertorte, but not a copyright one. Recipes are specifically exempted from copyright protection, though you could keep one secret and try to protect it as a trade secret I suppose (a la Coca Cola). The way a recipe is fixed to the page might be protected by copyright, but the actual ingredients and how they are combined are not. The glories of IP, Avery. They are my life.



  • RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413
    edited October 2013
    SouthamObserver said:

    You are better off drinking than watching property prices. They always apply to someone else's place. There's always a reason why yours does not get to dollar.

    Woman goes into an estate agent:

    "Can I help you, Madam?"

    "Yes, I'm interested in a three-bedroom family house in Acacia Avenue, a bit of a garden, not needing too much work."

    [Estate agent sucks teeth]

    "Ooh, huge demand for those, not many come on the market, sold one last week and it went in hours, I could sell a dozen more by the end of the afternoon, I don't know when another might be available but I'm afraid prices are rocketing fast for properties like that, just supply and demand, so many people want a house there, what with the schools and everything..."

    "That's good, I've got one to sell".
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,769
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    OblitusSumMe said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Mr Me - Thanks. So none commissioned under new Lab?

    No, none under New Labour, and construction of Sizewell B started in 1987, so we haven't seen the construction of a nuclear power station start since the days of Thatcher in No. 10.

    Interesting to note that Wikipedia states that Sizewell B was first announced in 1969.
    1969?

    I've known ladies that have [moderated] quicker than British Nuclear Stations.

    Can't we annex France and build our nuclear power stations there?

    Time to enforce the Treaty of Troyes.
    Serious point, the whole point of the EU is so that countries can get each other's stuff without needing to invade them. If the French are into nuclear power and have a lot of expertise and enthusiasm that the British don't, it may be that Britain should consume nuclear power but shouldn't produce it. If the UK offered the French the subsidy to expand their capacity instead of doing the China thing, would they be up for expanding?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    Anthony Wells on the Brighton poll (grim for the Greens) and Populus (moe):

    http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/8280
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,765
    AveryLP said:

    MaxPB said:

    Pending any final issues, I just became one of those property owning bastards I love to hate! Two bedroom flat in Shepherds Bush! Absolutely stretched myself to the limit but I have agreed a large overpayment limit with Barclay's so I hope I can get my indebtedness down fairly rapidly. It is also a top floor flat with an undeveloped attic which I intend to develop in the future at some point for a new master bedroom.

    :D

    Make sure you own the attic space, Max.

    In most conversions with leasehold flats it is likely to be owned by the freeholder.

    Share of freehold. It's a townhouse. I definitely own the attic though, I made sure of that before committing to the purchase.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    ''Hackney is the crime ridden badlands - terrible schools, poor services, indifferent transport.''

    Its on the way up.
    A pub toilet I was in in Hackney recently had the sign 'drug dealers will be barred for life' on one of the walls.

    You can't say fairer than that.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 40,054
    SeanT said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    SeanT said:

    There is definitely a significant property bubble in London. I've been watching house prices in my area.

    Check this:

    http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-43684409.html

    A fairly average converted-warehouse flat, with 1 bed, in a pleasant but not amazing part of Camden. Note the IKEA furniture.

    £675,000???

    Even more insane, this impressive loft style apartment costs £800,000

    http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-40691617.html

    .... in Hackney.

    £800,000 for a one bed flat in.... Hackney.

    Surely unsustainable. And yet is is sustained. Hmm.

    •1,561sq.ft One Bedroom Apartment

    1,561 square feet is pretty huge isn't it? Sounds like a whole top floor.

    You are better off drinking than watching property prices. They always apply to someone else's place. There's always a reason why yours does not get to dollar.

    I agree with the drinking bit, obviously. It is nonetheless compelling, in a haunting way, to watch this bubble inflate: I believe I was the first person on pb to note its existence - the vigorous recovery of the London property market - about two years ago. Now it approaches tulip fever.

    £800,000 for a one bed flat in Hackney, however huge the space, is lunatic - or so it seems to me. More than three quarters of a million quid for a flat in E8??!! You could have bought entire streets in Hackney for £800,000, about a decade back, and had change for a car.

    My theory is that these flats are being sold to overseas investors who have literally no idea what "Hackney" is like. They just know it is in London and that's good enough: London is the safest bet, it is the world property capital, its prices never seriously go down, and the flat looks nice in the pictures. So they buy.

    10 minutes from the City. A great place to buy and then do short term lets on. Or that's the theory.

  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 40,054
    RichardNabavi said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    You are better off drinking than watching property prices. They always apply to someone else's place. There's always a reason why yours does not get to dollar.

    Woman goes into an estate agent:

    "Can I help you, Madam?"

    "Yes, I'm interested in a three-bedroom family house in Acacia Avenue, a bit of a garden, not needing too much work."

    [Estate agent sucks teeth]

    "Ooh, huge demand for those, not many come on the market, sold one last week and it went in days, I could sell a dozen more by the end of the afternoon, I don't know when another might be available but I'm afraid prices are rocketing fast for properties like that, just supply and demand, so many people want a house there, what with the schools and everything..."

    "That's good, I've got one to sell".

    Very good!

  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,765
    As a side note, I think my next big area of complaint for government policy is going to be the marginal tax rate between £100k and £119k, I think my bonus this year may take me into that rate, and I really don't want to make AVCs to my pension as I would like to use the money to overpay the mortgage.
  • BobajobBobajob Posts: 1,536
    MaxPB said:

    AveryLP said:

    MaxPB said:

    Pending any final issues, I just became one of those property owning bastards I love to hate! Two bedroom flat in Shepherds Bush! Absolutely stretched myself to the limit but I have agreed a large overpayment limit with Barclay's so I hope I can get my indebtedness down fairly rapidly. It is also a top floor flat with an undeveloped attic which I intend to develop in the future at some point for a new master bedroom.

    :D

    Make sure you own the attic space, Max.

    In most conversions with leasehold flats it is likely to be owned by the freeholder.

    Share of freehold. It's a townhouse. I definitely own the attic though, I made sure of that before committing to the purchase.
    Again - very wise. And well done on getting SOF on a flat -- very rare and, as a former leaseholder, I can attest that you want to avoid that tenure where you can. Ancient legislation that screws the 'owner'.

  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,124
    CarlottaVance said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    Anorak said:

    TGOHF said:

    Speaking of NIMBYS...

    norman smith ‏@BBCNormanS 19m
    #Hinkley deal is " colossal waste of resources" say @theSNP "the Govt is forcing people to pay through the nose for nuclear white elephants"

    Any update on the Grangemouth stand off ?

    Has Hinkley Point been floated around Wales, past the Isle of Man, and provocatively moored at the mouth of the Clyde?
    What'll happen to the Vulcan NRTE at Dounreay after independence is quite another matter, especially if we go ahead with a Trident replacement.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dounreay#Vulcan_NRTE
    "In 2011 the MoD stated that NRTE could be scaled down or closed after 2015 when the current series of tests ends. Computer modelling and confidence in new reactor designs meant testing would no longer be necessary.[18] The cost of decommissioning NRTE facilities when they become redundant, including nuclear waste disposal, was estimated at £2.1 billion in 2005."

    I expect the SNP will claim it's being done out of spite....,
    "
    I believe (although am happy to be proved wrong) the actual submarine reactors are built in Derby, then assembled, fuelled and tested at Dounreay. So although the testing part of NRTE may shut, that part of the site will be needed for assembling and fuelling the reactors for any new Trident or Astute submarines.

    Besides, they may well need a new test reactor.

    http://www.banthebomb.org/index.php/news/63-trident/63-64
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,896
    Mr. Tokyo: bah!

    The EU may have started that way, but now it is an empire of bureaucracy, corruption, incompetence, interference and general shitness.
  • BobajobBobajob Posts: 1,536
    SouthamObserver said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    SeanT said:

    There is definitely a significant property bubble in London. I've been watching house prices in my area.

    Check this:

    http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-43684409.html

    A fairly average converted-warehouse flat, with 1 bed, in a pleasant but not amazing part of Camden. Note the IKEA furniture.

    £675,000???

    Even more insane, this impressive loft style apartment costs £800,000

    http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-40691617.html

    .... in Hackney.

    £800,000 for a one bed flat in.... Hackney.

    Surely unsustainable. And yet is is sustained. Hmm.

    •1,561sq.ft One Bedroom Apartment

    1,561 square feet is pretty huge isn't it? Sounds like a whole top floor.

    You are better off drinking than watching property prices. They always apply to someone else's place. There's always a reason why yours does not get to dollar.

    I was thinking yards not feet. It's not a bad size for a one bedroomed place though.

    You were right first time that is HUGE. Most family homes in London aren't that big - what I would say is that much of that may not be walkable space, due to the eaves.
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    edited October 2013
    Pulpstar said:

    "are there any free markets in the energy sector?"

    That is a very good point, as for power plants in Suffolk - are they not vulnerable to tidal surges a la 1953 ?

    From the wikipedia article:

    "The site of Sizewell A occupies 245 acres (99 hectares) north of Sizewell. It is on a low plateau above flood level. The geological foundation comprises Norwich Crag Formation and Red Crag Formation bedrock of Pleistocene age above Eocene London Clay. The Crag deposits predominantly consist of medium dense and dense sands with thin layers of clay and silt and fossiliferous shelly horizons. The Crag strata extend to a depth of 200 feet (60 metres) below ground level."

    It sounds like they chose one of the rare places in Suffolk safe from flooding, as you might hope that they would have the foresight to do.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    edited October 2013
    tim said:

    The psychology of house price inflation in the UK is interesting, otherwise rational people (and Sean) suddenly get involved in some Crucible type mass hysteria.
    Politically though if the bubble goes up this fast there's a danger the BoE may have to step in before the election

    As an aside housing should be Labours way back into the SE through the under forties who Osborne is crucifying

    a) How many houses would Labour have to build to stop prices rising ?

    b) Where would they be, when would they be completed and what measures would ensure that more houses were built than under the previous Labour govt ?

    c) How would Labour stop foreign investors buying these homes ?

    Look forward to your replies.

  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,765
    Bobajob said:

    MaxPB said:

    AveryLP said:

    MaxPB said:

    Pending any final issues, I just became one of those property owning bastards I love to hate! Two bedroom flat in Shepherds Bush! Absolutely stretched myself to the limit but I have agreed a large overpayment limit with Barclay's so I hope I can get my indebtedness down fairly rapidly. It is also a top floor flat with an undeveloped attic which I intend to develop in the future at some point for a new master bedroom.

    :D

    Make sure you own the attic space, Max.

    In most conversions with leasehold flats it is likely to be owned by the freeholder.

    Share of freehold. It's a townhouse. I definitely own the attic though, I made sure of that before committing to the purchase.
    Again - very wise. And well done on getting SOF on a flat -- very rare and, as a former leaseholder, I can attest that you want to avoid that tenure where you can. Ancient legislation that screws the 'owner'.

    It's why I was so desperate to get the flat. I knew that one like this would not come onto the market again for a while and I wasn't interested in a leasehold. I think I paid slightly over the odds for it, but for my needs it is perfect, two bedrooms, possibility to expand for a third bedroom if the gf and I ever decide to start a family and my income is still rising as I got a big promotion after my move to Shanghai didn't work out as intended.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,769
    dugarbandier said:


    are you also making the operators of the fossil fuel plants insure against the effects of climate change? :)

    Yes. The downside case for global warming sees fossil-fuel-burning companies getting the bejeezus sued out of them. It's going to make the tobacco lawsuits look trivial by comparison. There's a severe moral hazard there, because if you're an energy producer shareholder you'd rather take your profits now and solve the lawsuit problem with government bailouts or bankruptcy. We need to fix those incentives - it's the banking problem all over again.
  • BobajobBobajob Posts: 1,536
    SeanT said:

    MaxPB said:

    Pending any final issues, I just became one of those property owning bastards I love to hate! Two bedroom flat in Shepherds Bush! Absolutely stretched myself to the limit but I have agreed a large overpayment limit with Barclay's so I hope I can get my indebtedness down fairly rapidly. It is also a top floor flat with an undeveloped attic which I intend to develop in the future at some point for a new master bedroom.

    :D

    Well done Sir. Welcome to the London Property Owners Club, we have a group "smug hug" every Tuesday evenings.

    Related true story: I only discovered about six months ago that my flat has an attic. My property is on the first floor of a period terrace with a flat above, on the 2nd storey, so it never occurred to me that the weird trapdoor in the bathroom ceiling might actually lead to something.

    Then one afternoon, I got bored, and pushed the flap open, and found I had an attic. Not quite big enough to convert to a bedroom, and difficult to access, but nonetheless it is an attic, and great for storage.

    I still can't work out how it fits into the topography of the flat above. All a bit Tardis-esque.
    Does your bit stick out to the rear? Lots of Victorian stock has a two story rear and a three storey front - the flat above you may be rather small
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,765
    tim said:

    The psychology of house price inflation in the UK is interesting, otherwise rational people (and Sean) suddenly get involved in some Crucible type mass hysteria.
    Politically though if the bubble goes up this fast there's a danger the BoE may have to step in before the election

    As an aside housing should be Labours way back into the SE through the under forties who Osborne is crucifying

    This under 40 just bought a flat with a 90% mortgage, not sure if it is HTB or not though.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited October 2013
    JosiasJessop said:


    There are old reactors all over the place - including one slap-bang in the centre of London. Anyone Geeky enough to know (or care) where?

    Interesting! My guess is that's it's an old research reactor in one of the universities.

    Or do you mean the one 300ft below Downing Street that Gordon installed to power his bunker?

    [Ah, the power of Google. I was wrong. Greenwich Naval College!]
  • BobajobBobajob Posts: 1,536
    tim said:

    The psychology of house price inflation in the UK is interesting, otherwise rational people (and Sean) suddenly get involved in some Crucible type mass hysteria.
    Politically though if the bubble goes up this fast there's a danger the BoE may have to step in before the election

    As an aside housing should be Labours way back into the SE through the under forties who Osborne is crucifying

    It's hypnotic Tim - you feel richer, even though you are not
  • BobajobBobajob Posts: 1,536
    MaxPB said:

    Bobajob said:

    MaxPB said:

    AveryLP said:

    MaxPB said:

    Pending any final issues, I just became one of those property owning bastards I love to hate! Two bedroom flat in Shepherds Bush! Absolutely stretched myself to the limit but I have agreed a large overpayment limit with Barclay's so I hope I can get my indebtedness down fairly rapidly. It is also a top floor flat with an undeveloped attic which I intend to develop in the future at some point for a new master bedroom.

    :D

    Make sure you own the attic space, Max.

    In most conversions with leasehold flats it is likely to be owned by the freeholder.

    Share of freehold. It's a townhouse. I definitely own the attic though, I made sure of that before committing to the purchase.
    Again - very wise. And well done on getting SOF on a flat -- very rare and, as a former leaseholder, I can attest that you want to avoid that tenure where you can. Ancient legislation that screws the 'owner'.

    It's why I was so desperate to get the flat. I knew that one like this would not come onto the market again for a while and I wasn't interested in a leasehold. I think I paid slightly over the odds for it, but for my needs it is perfect, two bedrooms, possibility to expand for a third bedroom if the gf and I ever decide to start a family and my income is still rising as I got a big promotion after my move to Shanghai didn't work out as intended.
    You may be able to finance the loft conversion by remortgaging - should you so wish!

  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,769
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Mr. Tokyo: bah!

    The EU may have started that way, but now it is an empire of bureaucracy, corruption, incompetence, interference and general shitness.

    Like it or not, it works for that particular purpose. Countries have pretty much unfettered access to each other's industrial output, and within reason they can count on continuing to have it. That means they don't have to throw money away developing industries where somebody else has a comparative advantage.
  • BobajobBobajob Posts: 1,536
    SeanT said:

    tim said:

    The psychology of house price inflation in the UK is interesting, otherwise rational people (and Sean) suddenly get involved in some Crucible type mass hysteria.
    Politically though if the bubble goes up this fast there's a danger the BoE may have to step in before the election

    As an aside housing should be Labours way back into the SE through the under forties who Osborne is crucifying

    Except that people Feel Good when their properties go up in value: which is good for the Tories, as house prices are now inflating. You can decry this all you like from your semi in the Wirral, and tell us how you are glad prices in Liverpool are uniquely falling, as you can buy the crackhouse next door for a tenner, but it is the case. People like to feel richer, even if it is semi-illusory.

    I've no doubt rising house prices are a factor behind the mini Tory resurgence since Xmas.

    I agree with this post, actually
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    Bobajob said:

    MaxPB said:

    AveryLP said:

    MaxPB said:

    Pending any final issues, I just became one of those property owning bastards I love to hate! Two bedroom flat in Shepherds Bush! Absolutely stretched myself to the limit but I have agreed a large overpayment limit with Barclay's so I hope I can get my indebtedness down fairly rapidly. It is also a top floor flat with an undeveloped attic which I intend to develop in the future at some point for a new master bedroom.

    :D

    Make sure you own the attic space, Max.

    In most conversions with leasehold flats it is likely to be owned by the freeholder.

    Share of freehold. It's a townhouse. I definitely own the attic though, I made sure of that before committing to the purchase.
    Again - very wise. And well done on getting SOF on a flat -- very rare and, as a former leaseholder, I can attest that you want to avoid that tenure where you can. Ancient legislation that screws the 'owner'.

    Except share of freehold isn't 'very' rare.

  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,124
    Anorak said:

    JosiasJessop said:


    There are old reactors all over the place - including one slap-bang in the centre of London. Anyone Geeky enough to know (or care) where?

    Interesting! My guess is that's it's an old research reactor in one of the universities.

    Or do you mean the one 300ft below Downing Street that Gordon installed to power his bunker?
    The one I was immediately thinking of was CONSORT:
    http://www3.imperial.ac.uk/reactorcentre

    Although in a Charles-like geographical misunderstanding, I got it wrong. I'd been told it was at Imperial College in the centre of London; instead, it's on their Ascot campus. So not Central London.

    Sorry. I hang my head in shame.

    However, I also had in mind JASON, situated in a 17th Century building at Greenwich. Surely the world's only nuclear reactor in a World Heritage Site?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JASON_reactor
    http://www.ingenia.org.uk/ingenia/issues/issue10/beeley.pdf

    Which I'm happy to call Central London. ;-)
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