politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Brexit: We wuz robbed but is Tony the one to stop it.
politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Brexit: We wuz robbed but is Tony the one to stop it.
Like many 48 per centers I believe last year’s referendum victory for Leave was built on a mountain of mendacity, epitomised by that bus promising £350 million for the NHS.
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First, like Labour in both byelections.0
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Second, like the referendum to come.0
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The ship has sailed. The EU won't want such a grudging member to return.0
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I suspect Theresa May's visit to Stoke today is not really about this week's byelection, but more about laying the ground for a challenge in nearby Newcastle under Lyme (one of the Tories' top target seats) in 2020.
Incidentally, where on earth has this idea that PMs "only campaign in byelections if they're sure of winning" come from?? It's not true at all. Cameron even campaigned in the no-hoper of Oldham East in the last parliament (albeit not very effectively):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOYprzj1-Lo0 -
QTWTAIN - Next...0
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I think that Blair's speech is useful for Remainers (less so for Labour, maybe), because it keeps open the question of whether we are really going to want to accept whatever we end up with in two years - there is no reason for Remainers to resignedly accept whatever the outcome is, and despite Blair's unpopularity he's recognised as a substantial figure with a coherent line of argument.
Essentially Remain can't win the argument now. In two years, who knows. At present, it's simply a question of refusing to have the whole issue shut down.0 -
Remainers told us constantly there would be no second referendum, so there wont bewilliamglenn said:Second, like the referendum to come.
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I think Chuka and Wes are right.0
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Withering assault?
This is a withering assault;
Don Brind is to political commentary what Don Trump is to international diplomacy!0 -
The anti democrats are coming out of the woodwork.0
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that;s the bit the remainers dont getSean_F said:The ship has sailed. The EU won't want such a grudging member to return.
they think they will be welcomed back in to the fold instead of the cold reception reserved for perfidious Albion.0 -
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I agree, and while Don Brind is right that Brexit was launched on a sea of lies, that is ever the case in politics.Alanbrooke said:
that;s the bit the remainers dont getSean_F said:The ship has sailed. The EU won't want such a grudging member to return.
they think they will be welcomed back in to the fold instead of the cold reception reserved for perfidious Albion.
We shall have a hard Brexit and a frosty relationship with our neighbours for a decade or so, but things will mellow in time. Our hokey cokey with the continent will run for a long while yet. It haz been going for 2000 years already after all!0 -
“We have to build this coalition in order to win an election to form a Labour government.”
Lol.0 -
Of course.Sean_F said:The ship has sailed. The EU won't want such a grudging member to return.
For some of them, we've granted their base wish - an EU unimpeded by Britain.
All that's left now are the terms of the future relationships with the 12% (EU) and the 85% (the world).0 -
The problem with Blair's arguments isn't that it's "undemocratic" to try to change people's minds. It's that he's using the exact same arguments that obviously failed to work last June, and putting them forward again is not going to get a different result. People just don't care about abstract statistics about how much GDP is going to decline, how much the pound has fallen, how many big businesses are going to flee, etc.NickPalmer said:I think that Blair's speech is useful for Remainers (less so for Labour, maybe), because it keeps open the question of whether we are really going to want to accept whatever we end up with in two years - there is no reason for Remainers to resignedly accept whatever the outcome is, and despite Blair's unpopularity he's recognised as a substantial figure with a coherent line of argument.
Essentially Remain can't win the argument now. In two years, who knows. At present, it's simply a question of refusing to have the whole issue shut down.
I still say the best tactic of either stopping Brexit or (much more feasible) getting the softest kind of Brexit, is to paint the likely alternative to the EU, and ask people whether they think that's an even greater evil than the status quo. That alternative being, to be dominated by Trump's USA, have all our jobs shipped out to the USA, have all our sovereignty given to the USA, and have our NHS thrown open to American private companies.0 -
Remainers have to accept the outcome.NickPalmer said:I think that Blair's speech is useful for Remainers (less so for Labour, maybe), because it keeps open the question of whether we are really going to want to accept whatever we end up with in two years - there is no reason for Remainers to resignedly accept whatever the outcome is, and despite Blair's unpopularity he's recognised as a substantial figure with a coherent line of argument.
Essentially Remain can't win the argument now. In two years, who knows. At present, it's simply a question of refusing to have the whole issue shut down.
You don't go out and badger the voters of Broxbourne and tell them that they were misled and made the wrong decision do you? That contention may of course be true, but you respect the democratic process.
Blair, in this instance, doesn't have a coherent argument. He's parachuted himself in and thinks that he can tell us that we've got it wrong. It's a bit unpleasant.0 -
Sadly I fear that is true.We are busily burning our boats. .Alanbrooke said:
that;s the bit the remainers dont getSean_F said:The ship has sailed. The EU won't want such a grudging member to return.
they think they will be welcomed back in to the fold instead of the cold reception reserved for perfidious Albion.0 -
we just need new boatsOldKingCole said:
Sadly I fear that is true.We are busily burning our boats. .Alanbrooke said:
that;s the bit the remainers dont getSean_F said:The ship has sailed. The EU won't want such a grudging member to return.
they think they will be welcomed back in to the fold instead of the cold reception reserved for perfidious Albion.0 -
We can't remain now, it would be a national humiliation. What we can get, though, is a workable deal that leaves us in a kind of nether world of blue passports, pounds and ounces, and the ECJ as the forum for settling disputes relating to new "international agreements". After lots of posturing that's probably where we'll end up. The majority will be fine, die hard Leavers and Remainers will be furious.Alanbrooke said:
that;s the bit the remainers dont getSean_F said:The ship has sailed. The EU won't want such a grudging member to return.
they think they will be welcomed back in to the fold instead of the cold reception reserved for perfidious Albion.
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No, but he has the right to do that in 2020.Omnium said:
You don't go out and badger the voters of Broxbourne and tell them that they were misled and made the wrong decision do you? That contention may of course be true, but you respect the democratic process.
Just as the Tories have the right this week to tell the Copeland electorate that they've been led astray by Labour MPs, and should reconsider their longtime decisions to vote for them.0 -
@paulwaugh: Corbyn told the PLP that Copeland and Stoke Central are "on a knife edge"
@paulwaugh: Corbyn challenged at PLP over ICM Tory poll lead. Lab sources say coup still to blame for big gap with Tories but "confident" it'll narrow.0 -
Fake news much?Danny565 said:
That alternative being, to be dominated by Trump's USA, have all our jobs shipped out to the USA, have all our sovereignty given to the USA, and have our NHS thrown open to American private companies.NickPalmer said:I think that Blair's speech is useful for Remainers (less so for Labour, maybe), because it keeps open the question of whether we are really going to want to accept whatever we end up with in two years - there is no reason for Remainers to resignedly accept whatever the outcome is, and despite Blair's unpopularity he's recognised as a substantial figure with a coherent line of argument.
Essentially Remain can't win the argument now. In two years, who knows. At present, it's simply a question of refusing to have the whole issue shut down.
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The last desperate throw of the dice: - The 25th Amendment.
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/02/20/democrats-question-president-trumps-mental-health/
Of course, since he is against the Democrat party, that, to them, is proof enough.0 -
So in the one corner we have a mountain of mendacity, in the other Mr Valiant-for-Truth himself - Tony, porky-pie, 45 minutes, sexed-up dossier Blair.
It's the way you tell 'em.0 -
See Donald Trump's inauguration speech where he explicitly said any trade deals he signed would have terms slanted towards the USA.Mortimer said:
Fake news much?Danny565 said:
That alternative being, to be dominated by Trump's USA, have all our jobs shipped out to the USA, have all our sovereignty given to the USA, and have our NHS thrown open to American private companies.NickPalmer said:I think that Blair's speech is useful for Remainers (less so for Labour, maybe), because it keeps open the question of whether we are really going to want to accept whatever we end up with in two years - there is no reason for Remainers to resignedly accept whatever the outcome is, and despite Blair's unpopularity he's recognised as a substantial figure with a coherent line of argument.
Essentially Remain can't win the argument now. In two years, who knows. At present, it's simply a question of refusing to have the whole issue shut down.
Then see Theresa May's and Boris Johnson's regular expressions of enthusiasm for a trade deal with the person who made that speech.0 -
who's actually going to believe that ? It's even dafter than the last arguments.Danny565 said:
The problem with Blair's arguments isn't that it's "undemocratic" to try to change people's minds. It's that he's using the exact same arguments that obviously failed to work last June, and putting them forward again is not going to get a different result. People just don't care about abstract statistics about how much GDP is going to decline, how much the pound has fallen, how many big businesses are going to flee, etc.NickPalmer said:I think that Blair's speech is useful for Remainers (less so for Labour, maybe), because it keeps open the question of whether we are really going to want to accept whatever we end up with in two years - there is no reason for Remainers to resignedly accept whatever the outcome is, and despite Blair's unpopularity he's recognised as a substantial figure with a coherent line of argument.
Essentially Remain can't win the argument now. In two years, who knows. At present, it's simply a question of refusing to have the whole issue shut down.
I still say the best tactic of either stopping Brexit or (much more feasible) getting the softest kind of Brexit, is to paint the likely alternative to the EU, and ask people whether they think that's an even greater evil than the status quo. That alternative being, to be dominated by Trump's USA, have all our jobs shipped out to the USA, have all our sovereignty given to the USA, and have our NHS thrown open to American private companies.
As remainers look round for the alternatives to stay in maybe you should ask why Europe itself isnt coming back with new proposals to keep us in.
Personally I thought they would, but the silence from across the channel is noticeable.0 -
Precisely.Sean_F said:The ship has sailed. The EU won't want such a grudging member to return.
All arguments like this rest on the assumption that there is a vast bloc of committed Continuity Remainers and another vast bloc of wobbly soft Brexiteers, and if only the latter can be persuaded of the wrongness of their thinking and come and join the former then the Brexit juggernaut can be halted.NickPalmer said:Essentially Remain can't win the argument now. In two years, who knows. At present, it's simply a question of refusing to have the whole issue shut down.
What is, in fact, most likely to be the case is that the majority of relatively uncommitted voters in the middle feel that they have had their say, the country has made its decision, and they now simply wish to see said decision implemented and see no particular need to keep on discussing the matter ad nauseam.
I suspect that there is a minority of committed Leavers and Remainers abroad in the land, making most of the noise on this topic, whilst the silent majority has already moved on.0 -
How's Emily Thornberry going to react when she sees this?
https://twitter.com/thetwerkinggirl/status/8336391447903068170 -
Soviet tactics, abuse of psychiatry against opposition.weejonnie said:The last desperate throw of the dice: - The 25th Amendment.
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/02/20/democrats-question-president-trumps-mental-health/
Of course, since he is against the Democrat party, that, to them, is proof enough.0 -
Anyone who reads both Trump's inauguration speech, and who reads what May says about potential trade deals with the USA.Alanbrooke said:
who's actually going to believe that ?Danny565 said:
The problem with Blair's arguments isn't that it's "undemocratic" to try to change people's minds. It's that he's using the exact same arguments that obviously failed to work last June, and putting them forward again is not going to get a different result. People just don't care about abstract statistics about how much GDP is going to decline, how much the pound has fallen, how many big businesses are going to flee, etc.NickPalmer said:I think that Blair's speech is useful for Remainers (less so for Labour, maybe), because it keeps open the question of whether we are really going to want to accept whatever we end up with in two years - there is no reason for Remainers to resignedly accept whatever the outcome is, and despite Blair's unpopularity he's recognised as a substantial figure with a coherent line of argument.
Essentially Remain can't win the argument now. In two years, who knows. At present, it's simply a question of refusing to have the whole issue shut down.
I still say the best tactic of either stopping Brexit or (much more feasible) getting the softest kind of Brexit, is to paint the likely alternative to the EU, and ask people whether they think that's an even greater evil than the status quo. That alternative being, to be dominated by Trump's USA, have all our jobs shipped out to the USA, have all our sovereignty given to the USA, and have our NHS thrown open to American private companies.
The problem with the Remain campaign's arguments last year wasn't that they were daft or implausible, it's that most people didn't care if what they said happened anyway. They need to have arguments which DO make people worried.0 -
Brexit pride comes before a fall. Humiliation is baked in now.SouthamObserver said:
We can't remain now, it would be a national humiliation.Alanbrooke said:
that;s the bit the remainers dont getSean_F said:The ship has sailed. The EU won't want such a grudging member to return.
they think they will be welcomed back in to the fold instead of the cold reception reserved for perfidious Albion.0 -
Except that that doesn't fit the polling.Black_Rook said:
Precisely.Sean_F said:The ship has sailed. The EU won't want such a grudging member to return.
All arguments like this rest on the assumption that there is a vast bloc of committed Continuity Remainers and another vast bloc of wobbly soft Brexiteers, and if only the latter can be persuaded of the wrongness of their thinking and come and join the former then the Brexit juggernaut can be halted.NickPalmer said:Essentially Remain can't win the argument now. In two years, who knows. At present, it's simply a question of refusing to have the whole issue shut down.
What is, in fact, most likely to be the case is that the majority of relatively uncommitted voters in the middle feel that they have had their say, the country has made its decision, and they now simply wish to see said decision implemented and see no particular need to keep on discussing the matter ad nauseam.
I suspect that there is a minority of committed Leavers and Remainers abroad in the land, making most of the noise on this topic, whilst the silent majority has already moved on.
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You keep banging on about this. As if it were a deal done.Danny565 said:
See Donald Trump's inauguration speech where he explicitly said any trade deals he signed would have terms slanted towards the USA.Mortimer said:
Fake news much?Danny565 said:
That alternative being, to be dominated by Trump's USA, have all our jobs shipped out to the USA, have all our sovereignty given to the USA, and have our NHS thrown open to American private companies.NickPalmer said:I think that Blair's speech is useful for Remainers (less so for Labour, maybe), because it keeps open the question of whether we are really going to want to accept whatever we end up with in two years - there is no reason for Remainers to resignedly accept whatever the outcome is, and despite Blair's unpopularity he's recognised as a substantial figure with a coherent line of argument.
Essentially Remain can't win the argument now. In two years, who knows. At present, it's simply a question of refusing to have the whole issue shut down.
Then see Theresa May's and Boris Johnson's regular expressions of enthusiasm for a trade deal with the person who made that speech.
I would be just as correct as you to assume that any trade deal will exclude x, y and z.
You don't have a clue, and are bereft of a leader who has a clue, so you're determined to make up the worst of all possible worlds. Learning at the feet of EeyoreObserver?0 -
dont be silly, this nation has had much greater humiliations , there's the Eurovision every year for instanceSouthamObserver said:
We can't remain now, it would be a national humiliation. What we can get, though, is a workable deal that leaves us in a kind of nether world of blue passports, pounds and ounces, and the ECJ as the forum for settling disputes relating to new "international agreements". After lots of posturing that's probably where we'll end up. The majority will be fine, die hard Leavers and Remainers will be furious.Alanbrooke said:
that;s the bit the remainers dont getSean_F said:The ship has sailed. The EU won't want such a grudging member to return.
they think they will be welcomed back in to the fold instead of the cold reception reserved for perfidious Albion.0 -
Tony Blair ? Is he motivated by the thought that Britain's relationship with Europe is his part of his "legacy" ? He won't help the remain cause. He is a shallow and ultimately rather frivolous man.0
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Yes. But you and Alistair Meeks will get through it eventually.williamglenn said:
Brexit pride comes before a fall. Humiliation is baked in now.SouthamObserver said:
We can't remain now, it would be a national humiliation.Alanbrooke said:
that;s the bit the remainers dont getSean_F said:The ship has sailed. The EU won't want such a grudging member to return.
they think they will be welcomed back in to the fold instead of the cold reception reserved for perfidious Albion.0 -
Will Labour be the first mainstream party to embrace English nationalism (even before UKIP whose very name precludes it)?TheScreamingEagles said:How's Emily Thornberry going to react when she sees this?
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Everying ignoring the Russian UN ambassador story. Nothing to see here.0
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Tip: carping on a load of fake news won't get people worried.Danny565 said:
Anyone who reads both Trump's inauguration speech, and who reads what May says about potential trade deals with the USA.Alanbrooke said:
who's actually going to believe that ?Danny565 said:
The problem with Blair's arguments isn't that it's "undemocratic" to try to change people's minds. It's that he's using the exact same arguments that obviously failed to work last June, and putting them forward again is not going to get a different result. People just don't care about abstract statistics about how much GDP is going to decline, how much the pound has fallen, how many big businesses are going to flee, etc.NickPalmer said:I think that Blair's speech is useful for Remainers (less so for Labour, maybe), because it keeps open the question of whether we are really going to want to accept whatever we end up with in two years - there is no reason for Remainers to resignedly accept whatever the outcome is, and despite Blair's unpopularity he's recognised as a substantial figure with a coherent line of argument.
Essentially Remain can't win the argument now. In two years, who knows. At present, it's simply a question of refusing to have the whole issue shut down.
I still say the best tactic of either stopping Brexit or (much more feasible) getting the softest kind of Brexit, is to paint the likely alternative to the EU, and ask people whether they think that's an even greater evil than the status quo. That alternative being, to be dominated by Trump's USA, have all our jobs shipped out to the USA, have all our sovereignty given to the USA, and have our NHS thrown open to American private companies.
The problem with the Remain campaign's arguments last year wasn't that they were daft or implausible, it's that most people didn't care if what they said happened anyway. They need to have arguments which DO make people worried.0 -
Post of the day.Luckyguy1983 said:
Yes. But you and Alistair Meeks will get through it eventually.williamglenn said:
Brexit pride comes before a fall. Humiliation is baked in now.SouthamObserver said:
We can't remain now, it would be a national humiliation.Alanbrooke said:
that;s the bit the remainers dont getSean_F said:The ship has sailed. The EU won't want such a grudging member to return.
they think they will be welcomed back in to the fold instead of the cold reception reserved for perfidious Albion.0 -
I genuinely don't understand the selective listening some PBTories have with regards to Trump. It doesn't need to be a "deal done", Trump's already stated the preconditions for any trade deal (that it must be slanted towards the States). Do you think he's bluffing?Mortimer said:
You keep banging on about this. As if it were a deal done.Danny565 said:
See Donald Trump's inauguration speech where he explicitly said any trade deals he signed would have terms slanted towards the USA.Mortimer said:
Fake news much?Danny565 said:
That alternative being, to be dominated by Trump's USA, have all our jobs shipped out to the USA, have all our sovereignty given to the USA, and have our NHS thrown open to American private companies.NickPalmer said:I think that Blair's speech is useful for Remainers (less so for Labour, maybe), because it keeps open the question of whether we are really going to want to accept whatever we end up with in two years - there is no reason for Remainers to resignedly accept whatever the outcome is, and despite Blair's unpopularity he's recognised as a substantial figure with a coherent line of argument.
Essentially Remain can't win the argument now. In two years, who knows. At present, it's simply a question of refusing to have the whole issue shut down.
Then see Theresa May's and Boris Johnson's regular expressions of enthusiasm for a trade deal with the person who made that speech.0 -
Oh for goodness sake (this being a family blog). How much more of this nonsense do we have to take? It's over, it's decided, get over it and work to make the best of the inevitable.0
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Agreed.Danny565 said:
I genuinely don't understand the selective listening some PBTories have with regards to Trump. It doesn't need to be a "deal done", Trump's already stated the preconditions for any trade deal (that it must be slanted towards the States). Do you think he's bluffing?Mortimer said:
You keep banging on about this. As if it were a deal done.Danny565 said:
See Donald Trump's inauguration speech where he explicitly said any trade deals he signed would have terms slanted towards the USA.Mortimer said:
Fake news much?Danny565 said:
That alternative being, to be dominated by Trump's USA, have all our jobs shipped out to the USA, have all our sovereignty given to the USA, and have our NHS thrown open to American private companies.NickPalmer said:I think that Blair's speech is useful for Remainers (less so for Labour, maybe), because it keeps open the question of whether we are really going to want to accept whatever we end up with in two years - there is no reason for Remainers to resignedly accept whatever the outcome is, and despite Blair's unpopularity he's recognised as a substantial figure with a coherent line of argument.
Essentially Remain can't win the argument now. In two years, who knows. At present, it's simply a question of refusing to have the whole issue shut down.
Then see Theresa May's and Boris Johnson's regular expressions of enthusiasm for a trade deal with the person who made that speech.0 -
It's the project fear twerps who are eating humble pie. Half-baked pastry puffs.williamglenn said:
Brexit pride comes before a fall. Humiliation is baked in now.SouthamObserver said:
We can't remain now, it would be a national humiliation.Alanbrooke said:
that;s the bit the remainers dont getSean_F said:The ship has sailed. The EU won't want such a grudging member to return.
they think they will be welcomed back in to the fold instead of the cold reception reserved for perfidious Albion.0 -
I imagine she'll more exercised by the correspondent's name. I am!TheScreamingEagles said:How's Emily Thornberry going to react when she sees this?
https://twitter.com/thetwerkinggirl/status/8336391447903068170 -
Plan for the potteries? Does it involve demolition?TheScreamingEagles said:How's Emily Thornberry going to react when she sees this?
https://twitter.com/thetwerkinggirl/status/8336391447903068170 -
In today's ICM poll, Con+Ukip = 57% in the final published result, or 62% in England (comparable figures from GE 2015: 50% and 55% respectively.)TheScreamingEagles said:@paulwaugh: Corbyn told the PLP that Copeland and Stoke Central are "on a knife edge"
@paulwaugh: Corbyn challenged at PLP over ICM Tory poll lead. Lab sources say coup still to blame for big gap with Tories but "confident" it'll narrow.
The entire "progressive" Left looks increasingly like an embattled clique, out of touch and out of sync with a small-c conservative polity, dominated by upper-middle class faux Marxist activists, and with little appeal outside of metropolitan strongholds and university towns.
Even with things as they currently stand in Parliament, all that's keeping them in the game now is Scottish Nationalism, which itself is a double-edged sword. The SNP delivers a reliable bloc of MPs, but most voters in England detest it.0 -
they were daft and they were implausibleDanny565 said:
Anyone who reads both Trump's inauguration speech, and who reads what May says about potential trade deals with the USA.Alanbrooke said:
who's actually going to believe that ?Danny565 said:
The problem with Blair's arguments isn't that it's "undemocratic" to try to change people's minds. It's that he's using the exact same arguments that obviously failed to work last June, and putting them forward again is not going to get a different result. People just don't care about abstract statistics about how much GDP is going to decline, how much the pound has fallen, how many big businesses are going to flee, etc.NickPalmer said:I think that Blair's speech is useful for Remainers (less so for Labour, maybe), because it keeps open the question of whether we are really going to want to accept whatever we end up with in two years - there is no reason for Remainers to resignedly accept whatever the outcome is, and despite Blair's unpopularity he's recognised as a substantial figure with a coherent line of argument.
Essentially Remain can't win the argument now. In two years, who knows. At present, it's simply a question of refusing to have the whole issue shut down.
I still say the best tactic of either stopping Brexit or (much more feasible) getting the softest kind of Brexit, is to paint the likely alternative to the EU, and ask people whether they think that's an even greater evil than the status quo. That alternative being, to be dominated by Trump's USA, have all our jobs shipped out to the USA, have all our sovereignty given to the USA, and have our NHS thrown open to American private companies.
The problem with the Remain campaign's arguments last year wasn't that they were daft or implausible, it's that most people didn't care if what they said happened anyway. They need to have arguments which DO make people worried.
and once agin your position is not to sell a positive case for staying in but to make people "worried"
your weakness in that approach is that enough pople have already lost out so that threat for them is already reality0 -
I couldn't care less.Danny565 said:
I genuinely don't understand the selective listening some PBTories have with regards to Trump. It doesn't need to be a "deal done", Trump's already stated the preconditions for any trade deal (that it must be slanted towards the States). Do you think he's bluffing?Mortimer said:
You keep banging on about this. As if it were a deal done.Danny565 said:
See Donald Trump's inauguration speech where he explicitly said any trade deals he signed would have terms slanted towards the USA.Mortimer said:
Fake news much?Danny565 said:
That alternative being, to be dominated by Trump's USA, have all our jobs shipped out to the USA, have all our sovereignty given to the USA, and have our NHS thrown open to American private companies.NickPalmer said:I think that Blair's speech is useful for Remainers (less so for Labour, maybe), because it keeps open the question of whether we are really going to want to accept whatever we end up with in two years - there is no reason for Remainers to resignedly accept whatever the outcome is, and despite Blair's unpopularity he's recognised as a substantial figure with a coherent line of argument.
Essentially Remain can't win the argument now. In two years, who knows. At present, it's simply a question of refusing to have the whole issue shut down.
Then see Theresa May's and Boris Johnson's regular expressions of enthusiasm for a trade deal with the person who made that speech.
The alternative of a good deal is not a bad deal. It is no deal.
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What is the red effect on the right trying to be, other than a subliminal "I am crap at graphic design" message? Are we actually looking at a burning cross?TheScreamingEagles said:How's Emily Thornberry going to react when she sees this?
https://twitter.com/thetwerkinggirl/status/8336391447903068170 -
Mr Smithson,
"Except that that doesn't fit the polling."
You mean the 52 - 48 real vote?
You're old enough to remember the phrase ... "Empty vessels make most sound." And it is true of some Remainers. There is a group suffering from righteous indignation, who still don't understand how they lost.
How dare the uneducated peasants defy their betters? Surely they will soon return to their senses. All we need to do is to berate them until they do.
It was funny at first. Now it's a little sad.0 -
@DanielFurrUK: @TSEofPB That *art work* reminds me of univeristy. 3am in the morning, drunk as Hell, but have a presentation due at 9am. Anything will do.Ishmael_Z said:
What is the red effect on the right trying to be, other than a subliminal "I am crap at graphic design" message? Are we actually looking at a burning cross?TheScreamingEagles said:How's Emily Thornberry going to react when she sees this?
https://twitter.com/thetwerkinggirl/status/8336391447903068170 -
Gareth Snell's Plan for the Potteris. Incineration or rivers of blood.Ishmael_Z said:
What is the red effect on the right trying to be, other than a subliminal "I am crap at graphic design" message? Are we actually looking at a burning cross?TheScreamingEagles said:How's Emily Thornberry going to react when she sees this?
https://twitter.com/thetwerkinggirl/status/8336391447903068170 -
I feel so sorry for the electorate of Stoke. I am sure that when their arrogant, pompous prat of an MP went off to something better paid they thought, well things can only get better. How wrong they were.0
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Agree we can't go back. Ideally we'll get a deal that doesn't impact the economy too badly. But there is no sort of deal we want or could get that would keep us in.SouthamObserver said:
We can't remain now, it would be a national humiliation. What we can get, though, is a workable deal that leaves us in a kind of nether world of blue passports, pounds and ounces, and the ECJ as the forum for settling disputes relating to new "international agreements". After lots of posturing that's probably where we'll end up. The majority will be fine, die hard Leavers and Remainers will be furious.Alanbrooke said:
that;s the bit the remainers dont getSean_F said:The ship has sailed. The EU won't want such a grudging member to return.
they think they will be welcomed back in to the fold instead of the cold reception reserved for perfidious Albion.0 -
The people were offered a half-baked permanent half-out status and they sensibly rejected it. Now the contest of ideas is to come up with something to replace it. Full-blooded membership of the EU is back on the agenda in a way that never seemed possible a year ago.CD13 said:How dare the uneducated peasants defy their betters? Surely they will soon return to their senses. All we need to do is to berate them until they do.
It was funny at first. Now it's a little sad.0 -
The fight over Brexit was asymmetric. The Brexiters, like Scottish or Irish nationalists, only had to get lucky once.0
-
Columbias finestwilliamglenn said:
The people were offered a half-baked permanent half-out status and they sensibly rejected it. Now the contest of ideas is to come up with something to replace it. Full-blooded membership of the EU is back on the agenda in a way that never seemed possible a year ago.CD13 said:How dare the uneducated peasants defy their betters? Surely they will soon return to their senses. All we need to do is to berate them until they do.
It was funny at first. Now it's a little sad.0 -
We should do what Churchill proposed.TOPPING said:
Agree we can't go back. Ideally we'll get a deal that doesn't impact the economy too badly. But there is no sort of deal we want or could get that would keep us in.SouthamObserver said:
We can't remain now, it would be a national humiliation. What we can get, though, is a workable deal that leaves us in a kind of nether world of blue passports, pounds and ounces, and the ECJ as the forum for settling disputes relating to new "international agreements". After lots of posturing that's probably where we'll end up. The majority will be fine, die hard Leavers and Remainers will be furious.Alanbrooke said:
that;s the bit the remainers dont getSean_F said:The ship has sailed. The EU won't want such a grudging member to return.
they think they will be welcomed back in to the fold instead of the cold reception reserved for perfidious Albion.
Merge with France.
0 -
Delusion is a dish best served to Remainers, it seems.williamglenn said:
The people were offered a half-baked permanent half-out status and they sensibly rejected it. Now the contest of ideas is to come up with something to replace it. Full-blooded membership of the EU is back on the agenda in a way that never seemed possible a year ago.CD13 said:How dare the uneducated peasants defy their betters? Surely they will soon return to their senses. All we need to do is to berate them until they do.
It was funny at first. Now it's a little sad.0 -
but theyre not coming back trying to keep you in eitherTOPPING said:
Agree we can't go back. Ideally we'll get a deal that doesn't impact the economy too badly. But there is no sort of deal we want or could get that would keep us in.SouthamObserver said:
We can't remain now, it would be a national humiliation. What we can get, though, is a workable deal that leaves us in a kind of nether world of blue passports, pounds and ounces, and the ECJ as the forum for settling disputes relating to new "international agreements". After lots of posturing that's probably where we'll end up. The majority will be fine, die hard Leavers and Remainers will be furious.Alanbrooke said:
that;s the bit the remainers dont getSean_F said:The ship has sailed. The EU won't want such a grudging member to return.
they think they will be welcomed back in to the fold instead of the cold reception reserved for perfidious Albion.
whereas if it were France....0 -
In the YouGov Favourability Ratings a few weeks ago, Angela Merkel had MUCH higher ratings with British voters than Trump had (34% compared to 19%).
http://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/xrkkkidqmc/InternalResults_170203_Favourability_W.pdf
If the Brexit debate becomes framed as one between being dominated by Brussels and being dominated by Trump (as opposed to last year, whereas it was perceived as a choice between being dominated by Brussels or being a fully independent Britain), then I don't think the outcome would necessarily go the way some might expect.0 -
Even Jeremy Corbyn has higher ratings than Trump in this country. And for all of the critical assessments of Obama on here, Obama was popular President in this country - far more than his predecessor Bush was, and certainly more so than Trump is.Danny565 said:In the YouGov Favourability Ratings a few weeks ago, Angela Merkel had MUCH higher ratings with British voters than Trump had (34% compared to 19%).
http://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/xrkkkidqmc/InternalResults_170203_Favourability_W.pdf
If the Brexit debate becomes framed as one between being dominated by Brussels and being dominated by Trump (as opposed to last year, whereas it was perceived as a choice between being dominated by Brussels or being a fully independent Britain), then I don't think the outcome would necessarily go the way some might expect.0 -
If the NHS private companies do a better job is that a problem - or is it merely that the NHS is seen as a religion. Trump has already put pressure on Big Pharma to cut costs of delivery.Mortimer said:
Fake news much?Danny565 said:
That alternative being, to be dominated by Trump's USA, have all our jobs shipped out to the USA, have all our sovereignty given to the USA, and have our NHS thrown open to American private companies.NickPalmer said:I think that Blair's speech is useful for Remainers (less so for Labour, maybe), because it keeps open the question of whether we are really going to want to accept whatever we end up with in two years - there is no reason for Remainers to resignedly accept whatever the outcome is, and despite Blair's unpopularity he's recognised as a substantial figure with a coherent line of argument.
Essentially Remain can't win the argument now. In two years, who knows. At present, it's simply a question of refusing to have the whole issue shut down.0 -
Trump is for 4 years - or at worst 8. Brussels is forever.Danny565 said:In the YouGov Favourability Ratings a few weeks ago, Angela Merkel had MUCH higher ratings with British voters than Trump had (34% compared to 19%).
http://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/xrkkkidqmc/InternalResults_170203_Favourability_W.pdf
If the Brexit debate becomes framed as one between being dominated by Brussels and being dominated by Trump (as opposed to last year, whereas it was perceived as a choice between being dominated by Brussels or being a fully independent Britain), then I don't think the outcome would necessarily go the way some might expect.0 -
Oh how I would love to see the Remainers try and use that argument for real. They would be utterly slaughtered. Your view of the British relationship with the EU really is delusional.williamglenn said:
The people were offered a half-baked permanent half-out status and they sensibly rejected it. Now the contest of ideas is to come up with something to replace it. Full-blooded membership of the EU is back on the agenda in a way that never seemed possible a year ago.CD13 said:How dare the uneducated peasants defy their betters? Surely they will soon return to their senses. All we need to do is to berate them until they do.
It was funny at first. Now it's a little sad.0 -
Charles Stuart will gain the English throne; the Irish will come to their senses and rejoin the Union; the English will come to their senses and return to Rome.williamglenn said:
The people were offered a half-baked permanent half-out status and they sensibly rejected it. Now the contest of ideas is to come up with something to replace it. Full-blooded membership of the EU is back on the agenda in a way that never seemed possible a year ago.CD13 said:How dare the uneducated peasants defy their betters? Surely they will soon return to their senses. All we need to do is to berate them until they do.
It was funny at first. Now it's a little sad.0 -
You are utterly delusional. The number of people who want to transfer additional powers to Brussels is about 10% of the population.williamglenn said:
The people were offered a half-baked permanent half-out status and they sensibly rejected it. Now the contest of ideas is to come up with something to replace it. Full-blooded membership of the EU is back on the agenda in a way that never seemed possible a year ago.CD13 said:How dare the uneducated peasants defy their betters? Surely they will soon return to their senses. All we need to do is to berate them until they do.
It was funny at first. Now it's a little sad.
0 -
Come on Sutton
Arsene Wenger = Hilary Clinton0 -
Brussels will gain power over the coming years. The question is whether Britain will be wielding that power from within the union, or being subject to it from outside.RoyalBlue said:
You are utterly delusional. The number of people who want to transfer additional powers to Brussels is about 10% of the population.williamglenn said:
The people were offered a half-baked permanent half-out status and they sensibly rejected it. Now the contest of ideas is to come up with something to replace it. Full-blooded membership of the EU is back on the agenda in a way that never seemed possible a year ago.CD13 said:How dare the uneducated peasants defy their betters? Surely they will soon return to their senses. All we need to do is to berate them until they do.
It was funny at first. Now it's a little sad.0 -
OT got an email this evening from Nuttall asking me to "Play your part in our historic battle this Thursday"
I so wanted it to follow up with 'just like Paul did at Agincourt and Waterloo'
0 -
Except Article 50 will be served within the next month and then we are out, and the show moved on to who is interested in rejoining. Even were joining possible the Eurocrats only today tell us that it would have to be by giving up our opt outs, good luck selling the Euro and Schengen on the doorstep.williamglenn said:
The people were offered a half-baked permanent half-out status and they sensibly rejected it. Now the contest of ideas is to come up with something to replace it. Full-blooded membership of the EU is back on the agenda in a way that never seemed possible a year ago.CD13 said:How dare the uneducated peasants defy their betters? Surely they will soon return to their senses. All we need to do is to berate them until they do.
It was funny at first. Now it's a little sad.
Except its about to be too late. Government deal or WTO, there is no remain on the status quo option.Danny565 said:In the YouGov Favourability Ratings a few weeks ago, Angela Merkel had MUCH higher ratings with British voters than Trump had (34% compared to 19%).
http://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/xrkkkidqmc/InternalResults_170203_Favourability_W.pdf
If the Brexit debate becomes framed as one between being dominated by Brussels and being dominated by Trump (as opposed to last year, whereas it was perceived as a choice between being dominated by Brussels or being a fully independent Britain), then I don't think the outcome would necessarily go the way some might expect.0 -
Rationally yes, but, for better or for worse, I'm not sure the voters usually use anything other than a short-term view to make decisions. After all, by the Leave Campaign director's own admission, the promise of a very short-term £350m cash bung for the NHS was decisive in getting them a win last year.Richard_Tyndall said:
Trump is for 4 years - or at worst 8. Brussels is forever.Danny565 said:In the YouGov Favourability Ratings a few weeks ago, Angela Merkel had MUCH higher ratings with British voters than Trump had (34% compared to 19%).
http://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/xrkkkidqmc/InternalResults_170203_Favourability_W.pdf
If the Brexit debate becomes framed as one between being dominated by Brussels and being dominated by Trump (as opposed to last year, whereas it was perceived as a choice between being dominated by Brussels or being a fully independent Britain), then I don't think the outcome would necessarily go the way some might expect.0 -
chortlewilliamglenn said:
Brussels will gain power over the coming years. The question is whether Britain will be wielding that power from within the union, or being subject to it from outside.RoyalBlue said:
You are utterly delusional. The number of people who want to transfer additional powers to Brussels is about 10% of the population.williamglenn said:
The people were offered a half-baked permanent half-out status and they sensibly rejected it. Now the contest of ideas is to come up with something to replace it. Full-blooded membership of the EU is back on the agenda in a way that never seemed possible a year ago.CD13 said:How dare the uneducated peasants defy their betters? Surely they will soon return to their senses. All we need to do is to berate them until they do.
It was funny at first. Now it's a little sad.
Brussels isnt exactly falling over itself to keep you in
0 -
If no deal with the USA is an option, why has Theresa May been constantly using the potential of a deal with them as proof of how successful Brexit will be?Mortimer said:
I couldn't care less.Danny565 said:
I genuinely don't understand the selective listening some PBTories have with regards to Trump. It doesn't need to be a "deal done", Trump's already stated the preconditions for any trade deal (that it must be slanted towards the States). Do you think he's bluffing?Mortimer said:
You keep banging on about this. As if it were a deal done.Danny565 said:
See Donald Trump's inauguration speech where he explicitly said any trade deals he signed would have terms slanted towards the USA.Mortimer said:
Fake news much?Danny565 said:
That alternative being, to be dominated by Trump's USA, have all our jobs shipped out to the USA, have all our sovereignty given to the USA, and have our NHS thrown open to American private companies.NickPalmer said:I think that Blair's speech is useful for Remainers (less so for Labour, maybe), because it keeps open the question of whether we are really going to want to accept whatever we end up with in two years - there is no reason for Remainers to resignedly accept whatever the outcome is, and despite Blair's unpopularity he's recognised as a substantial figure with a coherent line of argument.
Essentially Remain can't win the argument now. In two years, who knows. At present, it's simply a question of refusing to have the whole issue shut down.
Then see Theresa May's and Boris Johnson's regular expressions of enthusiasm for a trade deal with the person who made that speech.
The alternative of a good deal is not a bad deal. It is no deal.
It's the Brexiteers who've made clear trade deals with the USA and similar are the alternative to the EU, not Remainers.0 -
I present the next tweet for that large crossover political betting/pro wrestling audience that I know are here.
https://twitter.com/RusevBUL/status/833734142764339200
Rusev is incredible on Twitter.0 -
We do not not wield any power as an actor within the EU; we are a subordinate part of it. Brexit means that we will no longer be subject to its power in many areas, although it will undoubtedly have great influence.williamglenn said:
Brussels will gain power over the coming years. The question is whether Britain will be wielding that power from within the union, or being subject to it from outside.RoyalBlue said:
You are utterly delusional. The number of people who want to transfer additional powers to Brussels is about 10% of the population.williamglenn said:
The people were offered a half-baked permanent half-out status and they sensibly rejected it. Now the contest of ideas is to come up with something to replace it. Full-blooded membership of the EU is back on the agenda in a way that never seemed possible a year ago.CD13 said:How dare the uneducated peasants defy their betters? Surely they will soon return to their senses. All we need to do is to berate them until they do.
It was funny at first. Now it's a little sad.
0 -
Brussels is the British Leyland of great powers.williamglenn said:
Brussels will gain power over the coming years. The question is whether Britain will be wielding that power from within the union, or being subject to it from outside.RoyalBlue said:
You are utterly delusional. The number of people who want to transfer additional powers to Brussels is about 10% of the population.williamglenn said:
The people were offered a half-baked permanent half-out status and they sensibly rejected it. Now the contest of ideas is to come up with something to replace it. Full-blooded membership of the EU is back on the agenda in a way that never seemed possible a year ago.CD13 said:How dare the uneducated peasants defy their betters? Surely they will soon return to their senses. All we need to do is to berate them until they do.
It was funny at first. Now it's a little sad.0 -
and that's unfair to the AllegroSean_F said:
Brussels is the British Leyland of great powers.williamglenn said:
Brussels will gain power over the coming years. The question is whether Britain will be wielding that power from within the union, or being subject to it from outside.RoyalBlue said:
You are utterly delusional. The number of people who want to transfer additional powers to Brussels is about 10% of the population.williamglenn said:
The people were offered a half-baked permanent half-out status and they sensibly rejected it. Now the contest of ideas is to come up with something to replace it. Full-blooded membership of the EU is back on the agenda in a way that never seemed possible a year ago.CD13 said:How dare the uneducated peasants defy their betters? Surely they will soon return to their senses. All we need to do is to berate them until they do.
It was funny at first. Now it's a little sad.0 -
If we could just have a common tariffs zone for booze I would be happy. They could have our Nyetimber and we could have their Bolly. And their Petrus '61.Alanbrooke said:
but theyre not coming back trying to keep you in eitherTOPPING said:
Agree we can't go back. Ideally we'll get a deal that doesn't impact the economy too badly. But there is no sort of deal we want or could get that would keep us in.SouthamObserver said:
We can't remain now, it would be a national humiliation. What we can get, though, is a workable deal that leaves us in a kind of nether world of blue passports, pounds and ounces, and the ECJ as the forum for settling disputes relating to new "international agreements". After lots of posturing that's probably where we'll end up. The majority will be fine, die hard Leavers and Remainers will be furious.Alanbrooke said:
that;s the bit the remainers dont getSean_F said:The ship has sailed. The EU won't want such a grudging member to return.
they think they will be welcomed back in to the fold instead of the cold reception reserved for perfidious Albion.
whereas if it were France....0 -
The complexity of the act of self harming that is Brexit is certainly beyond me.
Referring to experts I draw attention to a recent article in the Economist (February 11 to 17, 2017, page 19ff) that discusses the possible size of a Brexit exit charge. It could be humongous.
http://www.economist.com/news/britain/21716629-bitter-argument-over-money-looms-multi-billion-euro-exit-charge-could-sink-brexit0 -
Serbia are in the queue to join the rich, vibrant EU.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-390289820 -
if youre buying Petrus the Tarif wont even make it into the roundingTOPPING said:
If we could just have a common tariffs zone for booze I would be happy. They could have our Nyetimber and we could have their Bolly. And their Petrus '61.Alanbrooke said:
but theyre not coming back trying to keep you in eitherTOPPING said:
Agree we can't go back. Ideally we'll get a deal that doesn't impact the economy too badly. But there is no sort of deal we want or could get that would keep us in.SouthamObserver said:
We can't remain now, it would be a national humiliation. What we can get, though, is a workable deal that leaves us in a kind of nether world of blue passports, pounds and ounces, and the ECJ as the forum for settling disputes relating to new "international agreements". After lots of posturing that's probably where we'll end up. The majority will be fine, die hard Leavers and Remainers will be furious.Alanbrooke said:
that;s the bit the remainers dont getSean_F said:The ship has sailed. The EU won't want such a grudging member to return.
they think they will be welcomed back in to the fold instead of the cold reception reserved for perfidious Albion.
whereas if it were France....0 -
Its matched by the repayment we are due on our share of the value of assets owned by the EU.Toms said:The complexity of the act of self harming that is Brexit is certainly beyond me.
Referring to experts I draw attention to a recent article in the Economist (February 11 to 17, 2017, page 19ff) that discusses the possible size of a Brexit exit charge. It could be humongous.
http://www.economist.com/news/britain/21716629-bitter-argument-over-money-looms-multi-billion-euro-exit-charge-could-sink-brexit0 -
we should also stick in a claim for unapproved accountsAlsoIndigo said:
Its matched by the repayment we are due on our share of the value of assets owned by the EU.Toms said:The complexity of the act of self harming that is Brexit is certainly beyond me.
Referring to experts I draw attention to a recent article in the Economist (February 11 to 17, 2017, page 19ff) that discusses the possible size of a Brexit exit charge. It could be humongous.
http://www.economist.com/news/britain/21716629-bitter-argument-over-money-looms-multi-billion-euro-exit-charge-could-sink-brexit0 -
Firstly the central institutions of the EU will only gain greater authority if the member states can agree to make substantive progress towards political union. It is at least as likely that they will remain in complete deadlock or even that things will begin to fall apart and integration will go into reverse.williamglenn said:
Brussels will gain power over the coming years. The question is whether Britain will be wielding that power from within the union, or being subject to it from outside.RoyalBlue said:
You are utterly delusional. The number of people who want to transfer additional powers to Brussels is about 10% of the population.williamglenn said:
The people were offered a half-baked permanent half-out status and they sensibly rejected it. Now the contest of ideas is to come up with something to replace it. Full-blooded membership of the EU is back on the agenda in a way that never seemed possible a year ago.CD13 said:How dare the uneducated peasants defy their betters? Surely they will soon return to their senses. All we need to do is to berate them until they do.
It was funny at first. Now it's a little sad.
Secondly there is no particular reason why we would want or need to participate in this process regardless. There are very good reasons why Canada (which is, in population terms at least, half the size of the UK) has not made any moves towards political unification with the US (which is vastly more powerful than the EU,) for example.
Thirdly, in the long run it makes no sense to talk of Britain "wielding power from within," because the eventual aim of the EU project is to abolish its constituent sovereign states and replace them with itself. You can't have influence over anything if you've been legislated out of existence.0 -
http://www.euractiv.com/section/all/news/that-bus-has-gone-eu-sees-no-brexit-u-turn-now/
“This bus has left,” said one senior EU diplomat.
“No one is happy about it. But we have moved on and the last thing anyone wants now is to reopen the whole issue.”
But the view shared by diplomats from a range of the other 27 EU states, and by some EU officials is this: “It’s going to happen,” one of the latter said. “It’s bureaucratically embedded.”
One long-time senior EU official said few would ultimately want to snub Britain if it had a change of heart. “But,” the person said, “the EU could want to impose some conditions, limiting the special status it has enjoyed in so many areas.”
Never mind which, if May climbed down from BrExit she would be out of office in milliseconds. Graham Brady would not be able to open his office door for all the letter waiting on the doormat.0 -
It is, I think, on the agenda in the same way that charm and delight Gillian Anderson is on my agenda.williamglenn said:
The people were offered a half-baked permanent half-out status and they sensibly rejected it. Now the contest of ideas is to come up with something to replace it. Full-blooded membership of the EU is back on the agenda in a way that never seemed possible a year ago.CD13 said:How dare the uneducated peasants defy their betters? Surely they will soon return to their senses. All we need to do is to berate them until they do.
It was funny at first. Now it's a little sad.0 -
Rather like a footballer's divorce, can we also claim a percentage of all future earnings?Alanbrooke said:
we should also stick in a claim for unapproved accountsAlsoIndigo said:
Its matched by the repayment we are due on our share of the value of assets owned by the EU.Toms said:The complexity of the act of self harming that is Brexit is certainly beyond me.
Referring to experts I draw attention to a recent article in the Economist (February 11 to 17, 2017, page 19ff) that discusses the possible size of a Brexit exit charge. It could be humongous.
http://www.economist.com/news/britain/21716629-bitter-argument-over-money-looms-multi-billion-euro-exit-charge-could-sink-brexit0 -
How did wielding power from within go for 43 years?williamglenn said:
Brussels will gain power over the coming years. The question is whether Britain will be wielding that power from within the union, or being subject to it from outside.RoyalBlue said:
You are utterly delusional. The number of people who want to transfer additional powers to Brussels is about 10% of the population.williamglenn said:
The people were offered a half-baked permanent half-out status and they sensibly rejected it. Now the contest of ideas is to come up with something to replace it. Full-blooded membership of the EU is back on the agenda in a way that never seemed possible a year ago.CD13 said:How dare the uneducated peasants defy their betters? Surely they will soon return to their senses. All we need to do is to berate them until they do.
It was funny at first. Now it's a little sad.0 -
We'll see.AlsoIndigo said:
Its matched by the repayment we are due on our share of the value of assets owned by the EU.Toms said:The complexity of the act of self harming that is Brexit is certainly beyond me.
Referring to experts I draw attention to a recent article in the Economist (February 11 to 17, 2017, page 19ff) that discusses the possible size of a Brexit exit charge. It could be humongous.
http://www.economist.com/news/britain/21716629-bitter-argument-over-money-looms-multi-billion-euro-exit-charge-could-sink-brexit0 -
This really is the dumbest argument the Europhiles have come up with. Even taking the highest figure, what they are actually arguing is that because we might be liable for the equivalent of 4 years gross payments, we should instead commit ourselves to making those gross payments every year for ever more.Toms said:The complexity of the act of self harming that is Brexit is certainly beyond me.
Referring to experts I draw attention to a recent article in the Economist (February 11 to 17, 2017, page 19ff) that discusses the possible size of a Brexit exit charge. It could be humongous.
http://www.economist.com/news/britain/21716629-bitter-argument-over-money-looms-multi-billion-euro-exit-charge-could-sink-brexit
With arguments like that it is no wonder the Eurofanatics lost.0 -
Or we just walk away and go WTO.Toms said:
We'll see.AlsoIndigo said:
Its matched by the repayment we are due on our share of the value of assets owned by the EU.Toms said:The complexity of the act of self harming that is Brexit is certainly beyond me.
Referring to experts I draw attention to a recent article in the Economist (February 11 to 17, 2017, page 19ff) that discusses the possible size of a Brexit exit charge. It could be humongous.
http://www.economist.com/news/britain/21716629-bitter-argument-over-money-looms-multi-billion-euro-exit-charge-could-sink-brexit0 -
Britain's " special status " , picking up the tab.AlsoIndigo said:http://www.euractiv.com/section/all/news/that-bus-has-gone-eu-sees-no-brexit-u-turn-now/
“This bus has left,” said one senior EU diplomat.
“No one is happy about it. But we have moved on and the last thing anyone wants now is to reopen the whole issue.”
But the view shared by diplomats from a range of the other 27 EU states, and by some EU officials is this: “It’s going to happen,” one of the latter said. “It’s bureaucratically embedded.”
One long-time senior EU official said few would ultimately want to snub Britain if it had a change of heart. “But,” the person said, “the EU could want to impose some conditions, limiting the special status it has enjoyed in so many areas.”
Never mind which, if May climbed down from BrExit she would be out of office in milliseconds. Graham Brady would not be able to open his office door for all the letter waiting on the doormat.0 -
If anyone is going to lead the campaign to try and maintain as close ties with the EU as possible it has to be Blair, he is still an effective speaker and has the profile necessary and his heart is in the fight as he is a genuine Europhile which was never the case with Cameron and Farron certainly is not going to be able to lead it. Though the campaign really has to focus on making the case for the single market now, not staying in the EU and overturning the referendum.
O/T Also walked past Vince Cable on the tube earlier looking as pensive as ever0 -
IT people - this may be fun:
https://github.com/maxbbraun/trump2cash
"This bot watches Donald Trump's tweets and waits for him to mention any publicly traded companies. When he does, it uses sentiment analysis to determine whether his opinions are positive or negative toward those companies. The bot then automatically executes trades on the relevant stocks according to the expected market reaction. It also tweets out a summary of its findings in real time at @Trump2Cash."0 -
@SkyNewsBreak: President Donald Trump has appointed General H.R. McMaster as his National Security Adviser following the resignation of Michael Flynn0
-
We spend roughly €30bn per annum on EU contributions and overseas aid, and that doesn't incorporate the internal costs of EU immigration that could be cut using sensible border controls, barred entry and application of 'no recourse to public funds, such as:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-388415870 -
To actually trade you need to have a US address, but yesnot_on_fire said:IT people - this may be fun:
https://github.com/maxbbraun/trump2cash
"This bot watches Donald Trump's tweets and waits for him to mention any publicly traded companies. When he does, it uses sentiment analysis to determine whether his opinions are positive or negative toward those companies. The bot then automatically executes trades on the relevant stocks according to the expected market reaction. It also tweets out a summary of its findings in real time at @Trump2Cash."0
