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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Why Ed Miliband can take some comfort from Tony Abbott’s vi

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  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Classic delay tactic from the Syrian-Russian camp here.

    Give us enough time to finish the war - and we'll hand them right over..
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,687

    Dunno, but it wouldn't be wise.

    In other words, there are no principles which lie behind American (and pre-Commons defeat) British policy on Syria, merely the rule of the strong, acting on their own motion, and accountable to no one but themselves.
    To the contrary, there's a very strong and extremely widely accepted principle, that the mass gassing of children is beyond the pale. What there isn't, yet, and probably never will be, is a full-scale panoply of international law backed up by world courts and some kind of world army to enforce it. Given that, and flawed though it might be, it seems reasonable that well-meaning powers should act together to discourage the most flagrant abuses, where they can.
    This is no time for point scoring and sanctimony. Putin has offered Obama an honorable exit from the Syrian affair. Obama should grab it with both hands , thank his lucky stars and learn from Putin's cool-headed statesmanship.

    I'm still trying to get used to constantly agreeing with Moniker - it is not our wont. But I think he's quite right. If this is the result (and we're not there yet), it's a Good Thing. Post hoc, everyone can claim some credit - Obama and Cameron for putting on pressure, Miliband and the UN for slowing the rush to war, Putin for coming up with the compromise,whatever. I don't really care, and nor should anyone - we should just be pleased that progress is being made without adding fuel to the flames.
  • Plato said:

    Mash perfect here

    PRINCE Andrew probably walked out of Buckingham Palace with more than £2m in jewels – after being caught by the police.

    Among international jewel thieves he is known as 'The Dick'

    Experts believe the Duke of York raided his mother’s bedroom and then waited in the Palace grounds until he was confronted by armed officers who did not recognise him immediately.

    The Duke would then have pretended to be furious, asking the officers if they knew who he was, before walking away without being searched.

    Tom Logan, a burglar, said: “Andrew has played this one surprisingly well.

    “Not only will the officers have been embarrassed by the fact that they tried to arrest a prince, but they will also automatically assume that Andrew is too stupid and useless to have concocted a jewel robbery... http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/celebrity/prince-andrew-commits-perfect-crime-2013090979269

    The Mash also has a great spoof of Chris Huhne, which I won't link to but is worth reading
  • This is ahistorical, irrational and ultimately an ex post facto justification for the mad decision of the President of the United States to make the use of chemical weapons by the Assad regime a "red line".

    Not really. At no time have I said it was wise of Obama to do so.

    My father gave me much bad advice, but he did give me one very good piece of advice: 'Never make a threat you're not prepared to carry out'.
    'Never make a threat you're not prepared to carry out ... or I'll kill you'.

    The worst piece of advice my Dad ever gave me was "Come down to White Hart Lane for the Spurs game, son". I did and 40 years of misery has ensured.

  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,687

    Neil said:

    Which rather misses the point that unions are its members and not its paid or elected leaders.

    Does it? I'd have thought it hit the point squarely on the head - that the union leaders don't always speak for their members or necessarily represent their interests.

    As it happens, I was talking to a retained fireman on that very point a couple of days ago. He's a union member, but is most unkeen on the strike proposal. Interestingly enough, he brought up the argument that only a small proportion of members voted in the strike ballot, and that there therefore wasn't a mandate for action. His views on the union leaders were verging on the unprintable.
    So what? Are there any organisations anywhere in the world outside North Korea whose members all agree with the policies of their leaders? Certainly not the Government.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    http://www.michigandaily.com/content/saddam-agrees-comply-un

    "Saddam agrees to comply with U.N."

    Published November 14, 2002

    UNITED NATIONS (AP) - Claiming Iraq was seeking the "path of peace," Saddam Hussein's government agreed yesterday to the return of international weapons inspectors, accepting a stringent U.N. resolution two days ahead of a deadline."

    It was Ed Miliband wot did it claims Nick Palmer ....
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,816
    tim said:

    @Avery.

    ONS data shows living standards falling for 37 out of the last 38 moths as living standards are measured by income growth compared to inflation.
    Fiddling around with some notional ratios won't change any of that

    That's what happens to countries that live beyond their means or didn't you realise that ?
  • Fenster said:

    tim said:

    Patrick said:

    Tim

    You're right. Dave is no Maggie, no Abbot.

    Osborne's economic policy shredded from a right wing perspective I'm sure you'll like

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2013/09/fisking-george-osbornes-speech/
    Fraser Nelson advocated cutting far, far faster than Osborne has. I doubt that would've been politically possible, so it is easy for him to attack from the right..

    Even the mild cuts this coalition have gone ahead with have had lefties branding this government "the most right-wing government in the history of mankind ever", and one that kicks tramps in the bollocks with fifty pound notes taped to their derby shoes.

    It was an impossible starting point for Osborne given there was "no money left". It hasn't been fab, but he hasn't done bad either. Not by a long stretch.

    Mr Osborne has not cut government spending. If was politically possible for Mr Osborne to raise taxes, then it was politically possible for Mr Osborne to cut spending. He chose to raise taxes.

  • RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413
    edited September 2013

    So what? Are there any organisations anywhere in the world outside North Korea whose members all agree with the policies of their leaders? Certainly not the Government.

    The discussion was about Conservative tactics, and I was challenging the assumption that criticising union leaders (and by extension the links to Labour) would necessarily be unpopular with all union members. As you know, the polling shows that it's not the case that union members are automatically Labour supporters.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited September 2013
    tim said:

    @Avery.

    ONS data shows living standards falling for 37 out of the last 38 moths as living standards are measured by income growth compared to inflation.
    Fiddling around with some notional ratios won't change any of that

    It is not me fiddling around with ratios, tim. It is the ONS in the Blue Book (National Accounts) 2013.

    The point the chart makes is that when Labour had power it pumped up GDP growth on the back of a credit bubble but such 'growth' did not translate into an equivalent benefit to consumers and households in living standards.

    If Labour couldn't improve living standards faster than GDP growth at a time of (albeit artificial) boom, what prospects do you think the party has of doing it in a period of austerity?

    Miliband and Balls may be running around saying that Osborne hasn't "solved the living standards problem" but at least he hasn't made it substantially worse like Gordon did during his 'no boom and bust' period as Chancellor.

    What's more, George has performed better than Gordon on living standards even after realising his higher priorities of reducing debt and the deficit, and, decreasing government spending in real terms.

  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,816
    tim said:

    tim said:

    @Avery.

    ONS data shows living standards falling for 37 out of the last 38 moths as living standards are measured by income growth compared to inflation.
    Fiddling around with some notional ratios won't change any of that

    That's what happens to countries that live beyond their means or didn't you realise that ?
    Don't blame me for the three year stagnation between announcements from Osborne that he's established growth.

    I don't, I blame the fkwit Party in office 1997-2010 who absoultely trashed the joint .
  • Y'wanna deal on Syria ... hand over the crap to be destroyed then hand over the crap who used it... deal done, otherwise we will take out x..y..z .. just as a little demo.
  • Andy_JS said:

    Broadband speed test:

    http://www.broadbandspeedchecker.co.uk/

    I got download 1.51 Mb/s and upload 0.504 Mb/s.

    I got 19.22 Mb/s down and 1.07 up. Mind you it does vary, I tried a couple of other times and only got 3-6 up. It's nominally 20Mb.

  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,816
    So the syrian freedom fighters don't mind a spot of sectarian cleansing.
  • The PB Warmongers are all Al Qeada sympathisers. No more, no less. When Assad goes who do you think will take over Syria?
  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    edited September 2013
    'Whats going on with Osbornes hair?"
    Syria .. Falkirk.. TUC meeting.. BBC deadheads all blaming each other..
    Who in their right mind gives a Feck what is going on with someone's hair..sheesh..
    This stuff is called "Idiot Cluster"...
  • x..y..z could be three rocks in the desert...just a sort of display of intent...we want your really bad boys
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited September 2013
    MaxPB said:

    Well that's an interesting consequence we didn't foresee. I wonder whether the US will go for it, I don't think they can not bother trying to engage Russia. Not that I think the Russians are being sincere, also, where does this leave Assad, I wonder whether he will blithely go along with Russia confiscating his chemical weapons...

    Max.

    We most definitely did see this consequence.

    Both tactically when it was reported that Russia were sending two land assault ships to theatre, a couple of days ago.

    And earlier when speculating on where the UNSC could find grounds for compromise.

    The interesting question now is, if Syria and Russia have agreed to take the CW out of the war zone, whether this move will be supported by a consensus resolution in the UNSC.

    Russia may decide it is better just to pick the CW up and take them away bypassing the UN as a diplomatic response to the US and its allies advancing its strike plans independently of the security council.

    Remember Russia has already been playing a role in securing Syrian CW by assisting the Assad regime reduce its 5 CW facilities to two, both located at (or near) seaports well within territory controlled by the government. I posted a link to a Lavrov statement to this effect a few days back.

    Interesting days ahead.

  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,816


    The PB Warmongers are all Al Qeada sympathisers. No more, no less. When Assad goes who do you think will take over Syria?

    Lembit Opik's on the market.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    The PB Warmongers are all Al Qeada sympathisers. No more, no less. When Assad goes who do you think will take over Syria?


    Yes Sunil - because the oppo are bad guys - Assad should be allowed to use all means required including nuclear weapons.



  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    I'm sure Sky has just said: "Cameron has welcomed the (Russian) news..."
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,816
    tim said:

    tim said:

    tim said:

    @Avery.

    ONS data shows living standards falling for 37 out of the last 38 moths as living standards are measured by income growth compared to inflation.
    Fiddling around with some notional ratios won't change any of that

    That's what happens to countries that live beyond their means or didn't you realise that ?
    Don't blame me for the three year stagnation between announcements from Osborne that he's established growth.

    I don't, I blame the fkwit Party in office 1997-2010 who absoultely trashed the joint .
    if he based himself on Brown he should be your kind of guy. 13 more years of no boom and bust.

  • TGOHF said:

    The PB Warmongers are all Al Qeada sympathisers. No more, no less. When Assad goes who do you think will take over Syria?


    Yes Sunil - because the oppo are bad guys - Assad should be allowed to use all means required including nuclear weapons.

    May I remind you we are still at war with Al Qaeda in Afghanistan, they are still killing our lads over there.

    BTW I thought it was the US wot used nuclear weapons?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,929
    edited September 2013


    The PB Warmongers are all Al Qeada sympathisers. No more, no less. When Assad goes who do you think will take over Syria?

    Lembit Opik's on the market.
    That was "Cheeky" :)
  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    Good move by the Rooskies - makes it a lot harder for the regime changers to pretend it's about chemical weapons.
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    RodCrosby said:

    I'm sure Sky has just said: "Cameron has welcomed the (Russian) news..."

    I think they are referring retrospectively to a previous general statement (about Syria giving up CW), and not in fact to a new statement in the light of today's developments...

    Bit sloppy of Sky...

  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited September 2013

    Fenster said:

    tim said:

    Patrick said:


    ...

    ...
    ...

    Mr Osborne has not cut government spending. If was politically possible for Mr Osborne to raise taxes, then it was politically possible for Mr Osborne to cut spending. He chose to raise taxes.

    anotherDave

    Mr. Osborne has cut government spending in real terms.

    Here (again) is the evidence. Note 2013-2015 are latest PESA 2013 forecasts.:
    Public Sector Aggregates: Total Managed Expenditure             
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
    Year Nominal Change | Real Change | GDP Ratio Change
    £ bn % | £ bn % | % %
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
    Gordon Brown and Alistair Darling

    2005-06 526.4 ˄ 6.26% | 624.7 ˄ 4.34% | 40.6 ˄ 0.74%
    2006-07 553.0 ˄ 5.05% | 638.1 ˄ 2.15% | 40.4 ˅ (0.49%)
    2007-08 586.6 ˄ 6.08% | 660.2 ˄ 3.46% | 40.5 ˄ 0.25%
    2008-09 634.3 ˄ 8.13% | 694.4 ˄ 5.18% | 44.0 ˄ 8.64%
    2009-10 672.5 ˄ 6.02% | 716.4 ˄ 3.17% | 47.0 ˄ 6.82%
    | |
    2005-10 ˄ 27.75% | ˄ 14.68% | ˄ 15.76%
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
    George Osborne

    2010-11 693.9 ˄ 3.18% | 720.5 ˄ 0.57% | 46.2 ˅ (1.70%)
    2011-12 694.6 ˄ 0.10% | 705.1 ˅ (2.14%) | 45.0 ˅ (2.60%)
    2012-13 675.3 ˅ (2.78%) | 675.3 ˅ (4.23%) | 43.1 ˅ (4.22%)
    2013-14 720.0 ˄ 6.62% | 703.9 ˄ 4.24% | 45.1 ˄ 4.64%
    2014-15 730.4 ˄ 1.44% | 700.7 ˅ (0.45%) | 44.1 ˅ (2.22%)

    2010-15 ˄ 5.26% | ˅ (2.75%) | ˅ (4.55%)
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
  • Barack Obama may owe Vladimir Putin a drink. He was risking humiliation.
  • What will Russia do if Syria says.. No thanks..
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815

    What will Russia do if Syria says.. No thanks..

    From the sounds of things, Syria have already said yes. It looks like this has been an option discussed with the Russians for some time.

    Still there is always the risk of a slip between cup and lip!
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    RodCrosby said:

    RodCrosby said:

    I'm sure Sky has just said: "Cameron has welcomed the (Russian) news..."

    I think they are referring retrospectively to a previous general statement (about Syria giving up CW), and not in fact to a new statement in the light of today's developments...

    Bit sloppy of Sky...

    Correction.

    Sky now saying: "Cameron says Syria should be encouraged to put its CW beyond use, under international supervision."

    Word for word, the Russian suggestion...
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,925

    What will Russia do if Syria says.. No thanks..

    Already agreed do keep up

  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited September 2013
    antifrank said:

    Barack Obama may owe Vladimir Putin a drink. He was risking humiliation.

    Barack bought the time and talked the talk.

    It is Putin who should be sending the vodka, not Obama the Bourbon.

  • antifrank said:

    Barack Obama may owe Vladimir Putin a drink. He was risking humiliation.

    I was thinking the exact same thing.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,925
    Wonder what Dan Hodges thinks LOL
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    edited September 2013
    US State Dept to "take a hard look" at the Russian proposal...

    but...

    "We have some serious scepticism.."
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited September 2013
    RodCrosby said:

    US State Dept to "take a hard look" at the Russian proposal...

    but...

    "We have some serious scepticism.."

    UN verification and a UNSC resolution should dispel the scepticism.

  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    Christian Patriarch of Syria says live on Sky that putting all CW under international control is "a very good idea..."
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,359
    Some polls such as Reachtel actually had Abbott ahead on the preferred PM measure by election day. I have yet to see a poll with Miliband ahead as preferred PM. Of course in 1970, after the devaluation of sterling, and in 1979, after the winter of discontent and the IMF bailout, both Wilson and Callaghan were doomed. Heath and Thatcher may have been less likeable than Harold and 'Sunny Jim' but they were also much tougher, combative and heavyweight figures than Ed Miliband, as indeed is Tony Abbott!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,359
    Moniker Francois Hollande? Jimmy Carter? Julia Gillard?
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    paul mcleary ‏@paulmcleary 44m

    Now that Russia will pressure Syria to join the Convention on Chemical Weapons, wonder if the US will pressure Israel and Egypt to do same
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,816
    Mick_Pork said:

    paul mcleary ‏@paulmcleary 44m

    Now that Russia will pressure Syria to join the Convention on Chemical Weapons, wonder if the US will pressure Israel and Egypt to do same
    I think they'll wait until Ed Miliband gets those nice Iranians to do the same.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,174
    AveryLP said:

    Andy_JS said:

    O/T:

    Does anyone know what the polling hours are for the Norwegian election today?

    Forget the polling hours, Andy.

    It is the drinking hours which count. Sale of alcohol on polling day is forbidden in Norway (except to residents in hotels).

    I am expecting a sober result.

    Maybe having an oil fund is not such a good idea
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    tim said:

    @Avery.
    Those bills he moved from 2012/3 to 2013/4 starting to show up in your figures.

    And why aren't you posting total govt spending, we're told the rise in borrowing costs are a mark of Osbornes genius as was the fall.

    tim

    I did point out at the time I noticed the 2013 "deployment of automatic stabilisers" that no one was commenting on the 4.24% real terms increase in spending planned for 2013-14.

    Given that growth this year must have exceeded even George's wildest fantasies, I wonder if he will attempt to deflate the projection a bit in the second half or leave it alone after consulting the electoral calendar. [Rhetorical wondering, tim].

    The figures are total government expenditure ("Total Managed Expenditure" as defined for PESA statements).

    Borrowing costs will impact the fiscal outcome this year, though to date they have underrun forecast (by about 1% if I remember correctly). This will probably reverse out in the second half, but it all depends on the government's net cash requirement. The last monthly figure showed a very healthy cash surplus, but without knowing the cash out phasing, it would be unwise to bank this so early in the year.

  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,816
    AveryLP said:

    tim said:

    @Avery.
    Those bills he moved from 2012/3 to 2013/4 starting to show up in your figures.

    And why aren't you posting total govt spending, we're told the rise in borrowing costs are a mark of Osbornes genius as was the fall.

    tim

    I did point out at the time I noticed the 2013 "deployment of automatic stabilisers" that no one was commenting on the 4.24% real terms increase in spending planned for 2013-14.

    Given that growth this year must have exceeded even George's wildest fantasies, I wonder if he will attempt to deflate the projection a bit in the second half or leave it alone after consulting the electoral calendar. [Rhetorical wondering, tim].

    The figures are total government expenditure ("Total Managed Expenditure" as defined for PESA statements).

    Borrowing costs will impact the fiscal outcome this year, though to date they have underrun forecast (by about 1% if I remember correctly). This will probably reverse out in the second half, but it all depends on the government's net cash requirement. The last monthly figure showed a very healthy cash surplus, but without knowing the cash out phasing, it would be unwise to bank this so early in the year.

    Juggling the books. Shame he couldn't actually do something for the economy.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,174

    @Life_ina_market_town - Quite so.

    All very interesting, but meanwhile there's a civil war raging, chemical weapons being used on a big scale again - something which has happened, thank goodness, only very rarely since 1925 - and on civilians too, and there's a risk of escalation and of the use of chemical weapons spreading - they are cheap, and eminently well suited to genocidal use against helpless civilians. If Kerry and Obama have managed to get Russian support for a way out of that with no Western shots being fired - a big 'if', as I said - then that's great, and a vindication of their approach, but we'll have to see how the situation develops. What surprised me was that some posters seemed to think the reports were a setback for Kerry.

    Kerry is a real donkey , the man is useless
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Iran should join the party - fire one lil old nuke at Tel Aviv then offer to hand the rest over.

  • AveryLP said:

    antifrank said:

    Barack Obama may owe Vladimir Putin a drink. He was risking humiliation.

    Barack bought the time and talked the talk.

    It is Putin who should be sending the vodka, not Obama the Bourbon.

    Putin is a teetotaller.
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited September 2013

    Mick_Pork said:

    paul mcleary ‏@paulmcleary 44m

    Now that Russia will pressure Syria to join the Convention on Chemical Weapons, wonder if the US will pressure Israel and Egypt to do same
    I think they'll wait until Ed Miliband gets those nice Iranians to do the same.


    Not the wisest example considering who sold and approved of Iraq using those weapons against Iran.
    Kenneth Roth ‏@KenRoth 43m

    Will #Iran, a huge victim of chemical weapons, join Russia in urging Assad to give up his to the UN to avert any use? http://trib.al/dOHHiP3
    Serah Henesey ‏@Serahhenesey 1h

    When Saddam dropped chemical weapons on Iran during the Iran-Iraq war the US PROVIDED him with satellite photos of the troops locations!!!

    Jean,Ohio ‏@SaveRepublic

    Rumsfeld 'helped Iraq get chemical weapons' http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-153210/Rumsfeld-helped-Iraq-chemical-weapons.html#ixzz2e9UchrZK … #CNN #MSNBC #ThisWeek #MTP
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,816
    Mick_Pork said:

    Mick_Pork said:

    paul mcleary ‏@paulmcleary 44m

    Now that Russia will pressure Syria to join the Convention on Chemical Weapons, wonder if the US will pressure Israel and Egypt to do same
    I think they'll wait until Ed Miliband gets those nice Iranians to do the same.

    Not the wisest example considering who sold and approved of Iraq using those weapons against Iran.
    Kenneth Roth ‏@KenRoth 43m

    Will #Iran, a huge victim of chemical weapons, join Russia in urging Assad to give up his to the UN to avert any use? http://trib.al/dOHHiP3
    Serah Henesey ‏@Serahhenesey 1h

    When Saddam dropped chemical weapons on Iran during the Iran-Iraq war the US PROVIDED him with satellite photos of the troops locations!!!

    Jean,Ohio ‏@SaveRepublic

    Rumsfeld 'helped Iraq get chemical weapons' http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-153210/Rumsfeld-helped-Iraq-chemical-weapons.html#ixzz2e9UchrZK … #CNN #MSNBC #ThisWeek #MTP
    Of course it is they're nutters.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815

    AveryLP said:

    antifrank said:

    Barack Obama may owe Vladimir Putin a drink. He was risking humiliation.

    Barack bought the time and talked the talk.

    It is Putin who should be sending the vodka, not Obama the Bourbon.

    Putin is a teetotaller.
    All the more reason to send the vodka.

    I would be a teetotaller if my girlfriend was a two times Olympic and 14 times World and 25 times European Rhythmic Gymnastics medalliist.

    See here: http://i.wp.pl/a/f/jpeg/19720/SAWH980725306670.jpeg

    Note to malcolmg: Look what you might gain if you give up the Buckies, mg!
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530

    Mick_Pork said:

    Mick_Pork said:

    paul mcleary ‏@paulmcleary 44m

    Now that Russia will pressure Syria to join the Convention on Chemical Weapons, wonder if the US will pressure Israel and Egypt to do same
    I think they'll wait until Ed Miliband gets those nice Iranians to do the same.

    Not the wisest example considering who sold and approved of Iraq using those weapons against Iran.
    Kenneth Roth ‏@KenRoth 43m

    Will #Iran, a huge victim of chemical weapons, join Russia in urging Assad to give up his to the UN to avert any use? http://trib.al/dOHHiP3
    Serah Henesey ‏@Serahhenesey 1h

    When Saddam dropped chemical weapons on Iran during the Iran-Iraq war the US PROVIDED him with satellite photos of the troops locations!!!

    Jean,Ohio ‏@SaveRepublic

    Rumsfeld 'helped Iraq get chemical weapons' http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-153210/Rumsfeld-helped-Iraq-chemical-weapons.html#ixzz2e9UchrZK … #CNN #MSNBC #ThisWeek #MTP
    Of course it is they're nutters.

    So you're fine with using chemical weapons against 'nutters'. Presumably that depends on which 'nutters' the US and west are allied with at any given time.

    Reassuring given what the Syrian rebels have already said.
    Israel News Network ‏@IsraelNewswire 24 Aug

    Arutz 7: Syria Rebels: We'll Use Chemical Weapons, Too http://bit.ly/1aCSAK5 #israel
    But at least Egypt with it's chemical weapons is a haven of stability that only massacres hundreds of protestors when it has to, right?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,174

    Y'wanna deal on Syria ... hand over the crap to be destroyed then hand over the crap who used it... deal done, otherwise we will take out x..y..z .. just as a little demo.

    Unfortunately they will also take out a lot of innocent civilians as per usual with their precision bombing.
  • NormNorm Posts: 1,251

    AveryLP said:

    antifrank said:

    Barack Obama may owe Vladimir Putin a drink. He was risking humiliation.

    Barack bought the time and talked the talk.

    It is Putin who should be sending the vodka, not Obama the Bourbon.

    Putin is a teetotaller.
    Definitely not to be trusted then.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,816
    Mick_Pork said:

    Mick_Pork said:

    Mick_Pork said:

    paul mcleary ‏@paulmcleary 44m

    Now that Russia will pressure Syria to join the Convention on Chemical Weapons, wonder if the US will pressure Israel and Egypt to do same
    I think they'll wait until Ed Miliband gets those nice Iranians to do the same.

    Not the wisest example considering who sold and approved of Iraq using those weapons against Iran.
    Kenneth Roth ‏@KenRoth 43m

    Will #Iran, a huge victim of chemical weapons, join Russia in urging Assad to give up his to the UN to avert any use? http://trib.al/dOHHiP3
    Serah Henesey ‏@Serahhenesey 1h

    When Saddam dropped chemical weapons on Iran during the Iran-Iraq war the US PROVIDED him with satellite photos of the troops locations!!!

    Jean,Ohio ‏@SaveRepublic

    Rumsfeld 'helped Iraq get chemical weapons' http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-153210/Rumsfeld-helped-Iraq-chemical-weapons.html#ixzz2e9UchrZK … #CNN #MSNBC #ThisWeek #MTP
    Of course it is they're nutters.

    So you're fine with using chemical weapons against 'nutters'. Presumably that depends on which 'nutters' the US and west are allied with at any given time.

    Reassuring given what the Syrian rebels have already said.
    Israel News Network ‏@IsraelNewswire 24 Aug

    Arutz 7: Syria Rebels: We'll Use Chemical Weapons, Too http://bit.ly/1aCSAK5 #israel
    But at least Egypt with it's chemical weapons is a haven of stability that only massacres hundreds of protestors when it has to, right?


    No I'm quite happy for the nutters to shell each other.
  • @AveryLP - Sadly, I think that giving up the Buckies might not be enough.

    Here's a few of the other things mg would have to do, along with running a minor superpower, before pulling in that class:

    http://lazerhorse.org/2013/07/17/pictures-putin-james-bond-action-hero-man/
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,174
    edited September 2013
    AveryLP said:

    AveryLP said:

    antifrank said:

    Barack Obama may owe Vladimir Putin a drink. He was risking humiliation.

    Barack bought the time and talked the talk.

    It is Putin who should be sending the vodka, not Obama the Bourbon.

    Putin is a teetotaller.
    All the more reason to send the vodka.

    I would be a teetotaller if my girlfriend was a two times Olympic and 14 times World and 25 times European Rhythmic Gymnastics medalliist.

    See here: http://i.wp.pl/a/f/jpeg/19720/SAWH980725306670.jpeg

    Note to malcolmg: Look what you might gain if you give up the Buckies, mg!
    Avery, Not a patch on my wife I have to say and I can keep having a moderate libation as the fancy takes me. I am a very fortunate man.

    NOTE: Avery , Looks just a bit too thin for me, I like a proper figure , 36-23-36 , none of your skint rabbits.
  • MyBurningEarsMyBurningEars Posts: 3,651
    edited September 2013
    AveryLP said:


    From the sounds of things, Syria have already said yes. It looks like this has been an option discussed with the Russians for some time.

    y0kel pointed this out a while ago: as early as September 4! We are incredibly lucky to be so well-informed on PB, as we are when TimT is about. I very much hope that they keep posting here.
  • What y0kel said Sep 4, read the end especially.
    Y0kel said:

    Syria Updates: Shadow Armies and Shadow Supporters

    Interesting that the US administration has stated that the first batches of US trained insurgents have entered Syria from Jordan. This would verify my posting on here on the 21st that such units had entered Syria and others were to follow. Interesting too that after a post that there seemed to be a lot of Special Operations assets setting up shop recently that the Sunday Times suggested that British SOF were in play. Unconfirmed. Certainly French in-theatre assets are certainly passing on feeds to chosen opposition forces

    It also looks like the the question marks over the scale of US forces deployed for what was apparently some missile strikes didn't quite fit. It appears that Administration thinking is to perhaps go for something more concerted even if short. Where many made the error was to look to the Med, it is South and East of Syria where the most devastating kit is. Its whether it would ever get used that is the question.

    It is dawning on Assad's government that they are not in the clear yet. Whenever Assad's officials spread out, the estimate was that some wouldn't bother coming back, taking the opportunity in the disjointed situation to bail out. Some , though no one truly notable, have already in recent days, going to ground. Today though we saw the defection of a senior General today after rumours last night. The problem is the guys name, he could be one of two people. One is a General..the other a General who's an even bigger fish. Which one we'll find out soon.

    There is a feeling others will follow. Some intelligence assessments are that the finger pointing in the aftermath of the chemical weapons attack may both indicate and develop into rather more severe strains amongst some of Assad's officials & military men. The US for well over a year has been looking for a coup leadership, whether for physically ousting Assad or simply just breaking off. No evidence that they have it yet but there are stresses.

    On the special weapons front there are stories that a suggestion has been floated by one of Assad's external allies to ship his stocks out of the country as a way to short circuit any strike plans. This is as yet unconfirmed and, even if it is, it isn't clear if its going to be taken up.

  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    tim said:

    According to the titanic intellect of ScottP (and the level headed calm judgement of SeanT) whatever happens now to Syrias chemical weapons is down to Ed Miliband

    Yes one repeats his self incessantly, the other is just manic.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758





    The PB Warmongers are all Al Qeada sympathisers. No more, no less. When Assad goes who do you think will take over Syria?

    Lembit Opik's on the market.
    Prince Edward? IIRC the Estonians offered him the Crown in 1990 - he was quite keen to accept but the FCO vetoed. Something about poking the Russian bear. ;-)
  • RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413
    edited September 2013
    @MyBurningEars - You were asking about the Weald and Downland Open Air Museum a couple of threads back. It's superb, if you're at all interested in early vernacular, especially timber-framed, buildings. Also quite a good general family day out.
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited September 2013
    Lest those Blairing for war forget.
    Gaddafi DID have chemical weapons: Secret stash proves he broke pledge to Blair

    New Libyan government finds arsenal 'hidden from the world'

    Several sites thought to contain mustard gas agent and other chemicals discovered across the country


    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2061570/Gaddafi-DID-chemical-weapons-Secret-stash-proves-broke-pledge-Blair.html
    Another perfectly safe haven for those stockpiles no doubt.
  • GrandioseGrandiose Posts: 2,323
    tim said:

    Anyone think that Osborne might have made a mistake touting an economic victory when for those who didn't get his bonus gift living standards fell for 37 out of the last 38 months?

    He's taking that head on, as I'm sure you know.
  • @RichardNabavi - many thanks, much appreciated. I seem to recall you are from around those shores!

    The Weald and Downland Open Air Museum is certainly cranking its way up my "to do" list, GeoffM seemed to have enjoyed himself there too. The collection of buildings looks impressive from a distance, more so when you consider the distance they were shipped!

    At some point I will find someone who has visited the preserved architectural villages of Slovakia I was rabbiting on about, too.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    malcolmg said:

    AveryLP said:

    AveryLP said:

    antifrank said:

    Barack Obama may owe Vladimir Putin a drink. He was risking humiliation.

    Barack bought the time and talked the talk.

    It is Putin who should be sending the vodka, not Obama the Bourbon.

    Putin is a teetotaller.
    All the more reason to send the vodka.

    I would be a teetotaller if my girlfriend was a two times Olympic and 14 times World and 25 times European Rhythmic Gymnastics medalliist.

    See here: http://i.wp.pl/a/f/jpeg/19720/SAWH980725306670.jpeg

    Note to malcolmg: Look what you might gain if you give up the Buckies, mg!
    Avery, Not a patch on my wife I have to say and I can keep having a moderate libation as the fancy takes me. I am a very fortunate man.

    NOTE: Avery , Looks just a bit too thin for me, I like a proper figure , 36-23-36 , none of your skint rabbits.

    Aw, malcolm, here was I thinking you were raucle not sapsie.

  • MG.. Read the post..it could be three rocks.. or three old army trcks..maybe next time Chemical Weapons deployment unit, or a Presidential Palace..or a desert convoy ,, Give up the bad boys and walk away..
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,738
    Norwegian exit poll in less than 30 minutes.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,816
    Charles said:





    The PB Warmongers are all Al Qeada sympathisers. No more, no less. When Assad goes who do you think will take over Syria?

    Lembit Opik's on the market.
    Prince Edward? IIRC the Estonians offered him the Crown in 1990 - he was quite keen to accept but the FCO vetoed. Something about poking the Russian bear. ;-)
    I can't quite see Lembit taking over Syria. But I suppose on a more unfortunate note this conflict may kill off Aramaic given many of the pockets which speak the language are in the frontline.
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    Since we are talking about who can put pressure on whom in Syria it's worth highlighting one of the main players in all this.
    Syria, the Saudi connection: The Prince with close ties to Washington at the heart of the push for war



    He has been gone from the capital for eight years, but Prince Bandar bin Sultan, who as Saudi Arabia’s ambassador to Washington wielded influence over no fewer than five different US presidents, has re-emerged as a pivotal figure in the struggle by America and its allies to tilt the battlefield balance against the regime in Syria.

    Appointed by the Saudi king, his uncle, last year as the head of the Saudi General Intelligence Agency, Prince Bandar has reportedly for months been focused exclusively on garnering international support, including arms and training, for Syrian rebel factions in pursuit of the eventual toppling of President Bashar al-Assad.

    It is a long-term Saudi goal, that in the past several days has been subsumed by the more immediate crisis over the purported use of chemical weapons by Damascus, which, according to Riyadh, must be met by a stern response. That message is being delivered to President Barack Obama by the current Saudi Ambassador in Washington, Adel al-Jubeir, who is a Bandar protégé.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/syria-the-saudi-connection-the-prince-with-close-ties-to-washington-at-the-heart-of-the-push-for-war-8785049.html
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Best piece of advice my father gave me: never drink alcohol directly from a can or bottle.

    I have few principles in life but have abided by this one, except in emergencies.

    This is ahistorical, irrational and ultimately an ex post facto justification for the mad decision of the President of the United States to make the use of chemical weapons by the Assad regime a "red line".

    Not really. At no time have I said it was wise of Obama to do so.

    My father gave me much bad advice, but he did give me one very good piece of advice: 'Never make a threat you're not prepared to carry out'.
    'Never make a threat you're not prepared to carry out ... or I'll kill you'.

    The worst piece of advice my Dad ever gave me was "Come down to White Hart Lane for the Spurs game, son". I did and 40 years of misery has ensured.

  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815

    @AveryLP - Sadly, I think that giving up the Buckies might not be enough.

    Here's a few of the other things mg would have to do, along with running a minor superpower, before pulling in that class:

    http://lazerhorse.org/2013/07/17/pictures-putin-james-bond-action-hero-man/

    I think Vladimir Vladimirovich may now have competition from Tony Abbott.

    http://resources3.news.com.au/images/2009/11/30/1225805/212259-tony-abbott-091130.jpg
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    tim said:

    Anyone think that Osborne might have made a mistake touting an economic victory when for those who didn't get his bonus gift living standards fell for 37 out of the last 38 months?

    How are you measuring living standards? If you are just taking real gross incomes that doesn't take into account the massive increase in personal allowances for the lowest paid.
  • Bigjohn.. So nice to have such an informed insider here on PB ..you obviously know as much as anyone else.. why try to be such a smart arse ..
  • Charles said:


    Prince Edward? IIRC the Estonians offered him the Crown in 1990 - he was quite keen to accept but the FCO vetoed. Something about poking the Russian bear. ;-)

    That delightful story is more than a little overblown, unfortunately.

    It's not quite the same thing, but I do like how the deposed Tsar Simeon II of Bulgaria made a political re-appearance as Prime Minister Simeon Saxe-Coburg-Gotha in the early 2000s. He is one of just two heads of state of WW2 to still be alive, which is another unusual claim to fame.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,738
    I think Obama's heading for defeat in Congress.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,174
    AveryLP said:

    malcolmg said:

    AveryLP said:

    AveryLP said:

    antifrank said:

    Barack Obama may owe Vladimir Putin a drink. He was risking humiliation.

    Barack bought the time and talked the talk.

    It is Putin who should be sending the vodka, not Obama the Bourbon.

    Putin is a teetotaller.
    All the more reason to send the vodka.

    I would be a teetotaller if my girlfriend was a two times Olympic and 14 times World and 25 times European Rhythmic Gymnastics medalliist.

    See here: http://i.wp.pl/a/f/jpeg/19720/SAWH980725306670.jpeg

    Note to malcolmg: Look what you might gain if you give up the Buckies, mg!
    Avery, Not a patch on my wife I have to say and I can keep having a moderate libation as the fancy takes me. I am a very fortunate man.

    NOTE: Avery , Looks just a bit too thin for me, I like a proper figure , 36-23-36 , none of your skint rabbits.

    Aw, malcolm, here was I thinking you were raucle not sapsie.

    LOL, not sure how that could make me sapsie , you were more correct thinking me raucle, I was being a bit generous with the moderate.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815

    AveryLP said:

    tim said:

    @Avery.
    Those bills he moved from 2012/3 to 2013/4 starting to show up in your figures.

    And why aren't you posting total govt spending, we're told the rise in borrowing costs are a mark of Osbornes genius as was the fall.

    tim

    I did point out at the time I noticed the 2013 "deployment of automatic stabilisers" that no one was commenting on the 4.24% real terms increase in spending planned for 2013-14.

    Given that growth this year must have exceeded even George's wildest fantasies, I wonder if he will attempt to deflate the projection a bit in the second half or leave it alone after consulting the electoral calendar. [Rhetorical wondering, tim].

    The figures are total government expenditure ("Total Managed Expenditure" as defined for PESA statements).

    Borrowing costs will impact the fiscal outcome this year, though to date they have underrun forecast (by about 1% if I remember correctly). This will probably reverse out in the second half, but it all depends on the government's net cash requirement. The last monthly figure showed a very healthy cash surplus, but without knowing the cash out phasing, it would be unwise to bank this so early in the year.

    Juggling the books. Shame he couldn't actually do something for the economy.
    Mr. Brooke

    There are days when I have a vision of you, another richard and malcolmg fighting over the last half bottle of matron's sherry in a Borders nursing home.

    Your only collective joy in life would be looking forward to fresh stocks arriving with the next benevolent visit from Southam Observer.


  • It's not quite the same thing, but I do like how the deposed Tsar Simeon II of Bulgaria made a political re-appearance as Prime Minister Simeon Saxe-Coburg-Gotha in the early 2000s.

    His surname is Sakskoburggotski in Bulgarian I believe (although it should probably be Wettin as should Her Majesty's).

    Otto von Hapsburg-Lothringen MEP was I believe offered the crown of Hungary at one point, although I am not sure how seriously.
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    Andy_JS said:

    I think Obama's heading for defeat in Congress.

    Quite possibly since blame is already being readied if it fails.
    ITV News ‏@itvnews 1h

    McCain: Kerry remark 'unbelievably unhelpful' http://itv.co/14zdTdQ #syria
    Not that McCain and the Neocons are proving any more adept at shifting public opinion it has to be said.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8x_vusWz33c

  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,816
    @ Avery

    perhaps part of your problem Mr Pole is lacking the experience of life outside the SE which Mr G, Mr Richard and myself happily provide. We will be the first to cheer if Osborne does something for the real economy, maybe you should use that as your benchmark. ;-)

  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,738
    edited September 2013
    Norwegian election — live feed:

    http://www.nrk.co/valg2013

    Exit poll due in 90 seconds.
  • tim said:

    Charles said:

    tim said:

    Anyone think that Osborne might have made a mistake touting an economic victory when for those who didn't get his bonus gift living standards fell for 37 out of the last 38 months?

    How are you measuring living standards? If you are just taking real gross incomes that doesn't take into account the massive increase in personal allowances for the lowest paid.
    The tax burden has risen, across all groups.George is spending more than Labour did remember
    You don't think living standards have risen in the group you are talking about do you?
    Well, how is Miliband going to raise living standards for public sector workers without giving them above-inflation pay rises?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,738
    edited September 2013
    Norway election exit poll:

    AP: 30.3%
    H: 26.2%
    FRP: 16.2%
    SP: 7.9%
    KRF: 6.0%
    V: 4.6%
    SV: 4.0%
    MDG: 2.1%
    R: 0.9%

    52.9% for the centre-right coalition.
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    Andy_JS said:

    Norwegian exit poll in less than 30 minutes.

    Strange electoral system.
    PR, but seats distributed as much by area as population, rural areas overrepresented. Balance seats awarded to parties with >4% of the national vote, but which fail to win a county seat.
    Modified Sainte-Lagüe used to calculate seats.
    In a close election, the system seems to be marginally biased in favour of the Left, leading to calls for reform...

  • tim said:

    Charles said:

    tim said:

    Anyone think that Osborne might have made a mistake touting an economic victory when for those who didn't get his bonus gift living standards fell for 37 out of the last 38 months?

    How are you measuring living standards? If you are just taking real gross incomes that doesn't take into account the massive increase in personal allowances for the lowest paid.
    The tax burden has risen, across all groups.George is spending more than Labour did remember
    You don't think living standards have risen in the group you are talking about do you?
    Osborne is completely useless, but it's a bit rich for Labour to complain the government are spending too much. Especially since they've opposed every single proposed cut.
  • tim said:

    Encouraging stuff from Ed Balls on housebuilding, and admission that Labour got it wrong on housebuilding and an acceptance that for the last forty years we haven't built enough houses.

    That has to be the centrepiece of the next election, up against Osbornes Barber boom and another generation crippled by house price inflation

    They talked about house building for the whole time they were in power, but it mysteriously never happened.
  • perdixperdix Posts: 1,806
    tim said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I think Obama's heading for defeat in Congress.


    If he's got more sense than Cameron he won't push the vote if he thinks he's going to lose.
    Unlike the bumbling Etonian amateur Number Ten/whipping operation I'd expect him to know the numbers before the vote and extract concessions beforehand from Syria/Russia/Iran
    Of course in ReD's case both votes went the opposite way to which he intended!

  • john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    @Tim

    'Encouraging stuff from Ed Balls on housebuilding, and admission that Labour got it wrong on housebuilding and an acceptance that for the last forty years we haven't built enough houses.'

    Great stuff from the deficit denier.

    www.dailymail.co.uk/.../Most-annoying-MP-Ed-Balls-stops-denying-Labou...
    1 Apr 2011 - Coming clean: Ed Balls admitted Labour racked up the economic deficit ... He has been a key 'deficit denier' for the opposition since he was appointed ... time in office: 'I don't think we had a structural deficit at all in that period.
  • tim said:

    tim said:

    Charles said:

    tim said:

    Anyone think that Osborne might have made a mistake touting an economic victory when for those who didn't get his bonus gift living standards fell for 37 out of the last 38 months?

    How are you measuring living standards? If you are just taking real gross incomes that doesn't take into account the massive increase in personal allowances for the lowest paid.
    The tax burden has risen, across all groups.George is spending more than Labour did remember
    You don't think living standards have risen in the group you are talking about do you?
    Osborne is completely useless, but it's a bit rich for Labour to complain the government are spending too much. Especially since they've opposed every single proposed cut.
    So many of "the cuts" have increased spending.
    Sacking District Nurses and forcing a million more people into A&E was an act of unparalleled genius.
    Ah yes the other tactic, saying that cutting spending always increases it by some contorted logic. They've used this repeatedly often backed up by a 'charity' with links to Labour.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    tim said:

    Charles said:

    tim said:

    Anyone think that Osborne might have made a mistake touting an economic victory when for those who didn't get his bonus gift living standards fell for 37 out of the last 38 months?

    How are you measuring living standards? If you are just taking real gross incomes that doesn't take into account the massive increase in personal allowances for the lowest paid.
    The tax burden has risen, across all groups.George is spending more than Labour did remember
    You don't think living standards have risen in the group you are talking about do you?
    How about answering the question? How are you measuring living standards?

    (Clue: VAT and other taxes are already included in RPI. Income tax is not.)
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,738
    Surprised by how much I can understand on the Norwegian election show: probably because they're mainly talking numbers and political parties.
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    Andy_JS said:

    Norway election exit poll:

    AP: 30.3%
    H: 26.2%
    FRP: 16.2%
    SP: 7.9%
    KRF: 6.0%
    V: 4.6%
    SV: 4.0%
    MDG: 2.1%
    R: 0.9%

    52.9% for the centre-right coalition.

    That's considerably closer than recent polls, isn't it?
  • tim said:

    tim said:

    tim said:

    Charles said:

    tim said:

    Anyone think that Osborne might have made a mistake touting an economic victory when for those who didn't get his bonus gift living standards fell for 37 out of the last 38 months?

    How are you measuring living standards? If you are just taking real gross incomes that doesn't take into account the massive increase in personal allowances for the lowest paid.
    The tax burden has risen, across all groups.George is spending more than Labour did remember
    You don't think living standards have risen in the group you are talking about do you?
    Osborne is completely useless, but it's a bit rich for Labour to complain the government are spending too much. Especially since they've opposed every single proposed cut.
    So many of "the cuts" have increased spending.
    Sacking District Nurses and forcing a million more people into A&E was an act of unparalleled genius.
    Ah yes the other tactic, saying that cutting spending always increases it by some contorted logic. They've used this repeatedly often backed up by a 'charity' with links to Labour.
    There's no one in the world who thinks treating old people in A&E is cheaper than District Nurses treating them in their homes.
    No one.
    I've no idea about what you're talking about with the nurses, but Labour trott out the "it won't save money" line for every single cut so I just save time by assume they're talking partisan rot to score points as usual.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,738
    RodCrosby said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Norway election exit poll:

    AP: 30.3%
    H: 26.2%
    FRP: 16.2%
    SP: 7.9%
    KRF: 6.0%
    V: 4.6%
    SV: 4.0%
    MDG: 2.1%
    R: 0.9%

    52.9% for the centre-right coalition.

    That's considerably closer than recent polls, isn't it?
    Closer than most of the polls until about two weeks ago when they started narrowing a bit.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    edited September 2013
    Talk of elections over the North Sea reminds me of one of PB's absent friends - "Jan from Norway" - A much missed contributor from the betting wing of the site.

    Will ye nae come back again ??
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,738
    The threshold is 4% and the Socialist Party is jumping about between 3.9% and 4.0% at the moment.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,738
    It's an ultra-proportional system which somehow managed to allow the centre-left to win the election last time despite getting less votes than the centre-right. Bit of a paradox.
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    Andy_JS said:

    The threshold is 4% and the Socialist Party is jumping about between 3.9% and 4.0% at the moment.

    It's possible they could still win county seats, depends if their vote is concentrated in the largest counties.
This discussion has been closed.