politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » My 66/1 long-shot bet for the 2020 White House race: Democrati
Comments
-
The oddest bit was taking someone the public generally respected, generally had a lot of time for, and generally viewed favourably (Obama) and got him to say the one thing that would really piss the voters off and turn them against him. I thought Mrs Indigo, previously something of an Obama fan was going to throw something at the television after his "back of the queue" comments.glw said:
Remain were able to produce an endless queue of people the public hate to advocate remaining in the EU. It was impressively deluded.AlsoIndigo said:Firstly almost all the arguments made when the voters were listening in the short campaign before the referendum were about money, and worse than that they were about large corporations and banks losing money, not a matter close to the hearts of most voters.
0 -
I hope so.isam said:
That is surely a joke? He wouldn't have put "irony" in otherwiseTheWhiteRabbit said:
Mr Harris please step away from the keyboard and take a walk.Theuniondivvie said:
Fck, don't want to be a member of club that includes de Botton. I'll take Harris though.rottenborough said:Wtf. Leavers, take your blood pressure pills before reading this tweet:
Alain de BottonVerified account
@alaindebotton
Amazing the kind of politics you can engineer when you systematically underfund a nation's education system for a generation.
https://twitter.com/Robert___Harris/status/821491977057431552
0 -
She also threatened to walk away from a bad deal and to turn the UK into an offshore economy. You can't do that without a very flexible labour market. We will see what happens. But the idea that the right wingers she is in thrall too, and who kept the UK out of the Social Chapter for so long, are committed to ensuring that UK workers continue to enjoy the rights that are currently guaranteed to them under EU law is less than compelling IMO.glw said:
Of course May has to deliver on her speech, but she did explicitly say we are keeping existing rights outside of the EU, so it seems a bit unreasonable to talk about us having fewer rights.SouthamObserver said:Yep, she makes a lot of promises. I am looking forward to seeing what her fairer country turns out to be in reality.
0 -
@CCHQPress: Another round of positive @ONS stats show that wages GREW by 2.8% - means more money in the pockets of working people
@CCHQPress: Another round of positive @ONS stats show that wages GREW by 2.8% - means more money in the pockets of working peopledespite being a member of the EU0 -
*coughs* systematically underfunding a nation's education system for a generation?TheScreamingEagles said:Why are racists such awful spellers ?
https://twitter.com/oceanseyye/status/8210922759125893130 -
There really won't, you are forgetting the huge group of Conservative loyalists who didnt want to let Dave down, and now don't want to let Tezzie down. Add in all the people who thought they could trust Osborne and have since found of the Treasury projections were deluded bollocks. Those groups both move into the Leave camp.OllyT said:
In the same way that Leavers used to blame every problem on the EU all Remainers will need to do in a couple of years is blame everything on Brexit. It will be an easy and successful strategy - after all we are only starting 3.8% behind. - there will be an anti-Brexit majority in the country by the next GE.AlsoIndigo said:
Good luck with that.Gardenwalker said:But we Remainers will have to be a lot more imaginative than we have been. Remainerism has to be sold as a patriotic endeavour, not the "bankster's favourite".
Firstly almost all the arguments made when the voters were listening in the short campaign before the referendum were about money, and worse than that they were about large corporations and banks losing money, not a matter close to the hearts of most voters.
Secondly, you are going to have to persuade people that it is patriotic to give a large amount of control of their country to a supranational body. Its patriotic to push vast numbers of low paid men into part time jobs, and its patriotic for people to feel that their culture is being eroded day by day, and they dont recognise the place they grew up in.
Thirdly, and most problematic, the Leave campaign from the start sold itself as a patriotic endeavor, that is the subtext of the brilliantly effective "Vote Leave - Take Control" slogan. At the same time the Remain campaign banged on endlessly on themes which amounted to "too poor too wee too stupid", at the time when voters were paying the closest attention.0 -
So just to be clear Scott:Scott_P said:@CCHQPress: Another round of positive @ONS stats show that wages GREW by 2.8% - means more money in the pockets of working people
@CCHQPress: Another round of positive @ONS stats show that wages GREW by 2.8% - means more money in the pockets of working peopledespite being a member of the EU
Good news = because of the EU
Bad news = because of leaving the EU
You quite literally made the reverse point yesterday. With the opposite sarcastic cross-through.0 -
You do know we haven't left yet, right?AlsoIndigo said:have since found of the Treasury projections were deluded bollocks.
Haven't begun the process of leaving. Haven't even established the legal requirements for beginning the process of leaving.
Forecasts for leaving can not yet be bollocks...0 -
On Thread.
Kamala Harris is too much of a long shot, besides which I think that the GOP or similar will win the next US election, too.
My reasoning is this:
Donald Trump will make at least a partial success of his term in office. Even if he dies, mid term, Pence will take over the mantel and continue some of Trump's policies.
The Democrats will still be seen as the party of the elite by the majority of voters: even more so by the bitter infighting for power within the party
If Trump survives his first 4 years he will easily win a second term.
This all predicated on the fact that Trump will not be assassinated or simply murdered by fanatical Democratic Liberals as many Democratic politicians have threatened.
Trumps Inauguration will be the most heavily guarded and protected since Reagan, and if an assassin did slip through the net the security services will be blamed and wouldn't be trusted for a generation.
Black Market bets are going around (no names mentioned) that Trump will be picked of before or on inauguration day. Sickening but true!
0 -
SO believes the bits that are TORYBAD "maybe offshore centre if punishment Brexit" but discounts the things that are TORYGOODglw said:
Of course May has to deliver on her speech, but she did explicitly say we are keeping existing rights outside of the EU, so it seems a bit unreasonable to talk about us having fewer rights.SouthamObserver said:Yep, she makes a lot of promises. I am looking forward to seeing what her fairer country turns out to be in reality.
And a fairer Britain is a country that protects and enhances the rights people have at work.
That is why, as we translate the body of European law into our domestic regulations, we will ensure that workers rights are fully protected and maintained.
Indeed, under my leadership, not only will the Government protect the rights of workers’ set out in European legislation, we will build on them. Because under this Conservative Government, we will make sure legal protection for workers keeps pace with the changing labour market – and that the voices of workers are heard by the boards of publicly-listed companies for the first time.
Its obvious - she's telling the truth about a hypothetical, but lying about an actual.....0 -
Heh.Theuniondivvie said:
*coughs* systematically underfunding a nation's education system for a generation?TheScreamingEagles said:Why are racists such awful spellers ?
https://twitter.com/oceanseyye/status/8210922759125893130 -
The Brexiteers complain that the EU is holding us back, then cheer good economic news despite being a member of the EUTheWhiteRabbit said:So just to be clear Scott:
Good news = because of the EU
Bad news = because of leaving the EU
I have been entirely consistent, in mocking them0 -
.
I am not sure how we close the balance of trade gap without a vastly more flexible labour market, EU or no EU.SouthamObserver said:
She also threatened to walk away from a bad deal and to turn the UK into an offshore economy. You can't do that without a very flexible labour market. We will see what happens. But the idea that the right wingers she is in thrall too, and who kept the UK out of the Social Chapter for so long, are committed to ensuring that UK workers continue to enjoy the rights that are currently guaranteed to them under EU law is less than compelling IMO.glw said:
Of course May has to deliver on her speech, but she did explicitly say we are keeping existing rights outside of the EU, so it seems a bit unreasonable to talk about us having fewer rights.SouthamObserver said:Yep, she makes a lot of promises. I am looking forward to seeing what her fairer country turns out to be in reality.
0 -
Personally I try and mock them.
Make a scene and confront people being racist or anti-Semitic, minister says
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/make-a-scene-and-confront-people-being-racist-of-antisemitic-minister-says-a3443486.html0 -
Again Scott ignores the fact that the Treasury were making claims of fisastrr just for voting to.leave koto for actually doing itScott_P said:
You do know we haven't left yet, right?AlsoIndigo said:have since found of the Treasury projections were deluded bollocks.
Haven't begun the process of leaving. Haven't even established the legal requirements for beginning the process of leaving.
Forecasts for leaving can not yet be bollocks...
0 -
And Richard ignores the forecasts were based on triggering article 50 "right away", which hasn't happened.Richard_Tyndall said:Again Scott ignores the fact that the Treasury were making claims of fisastrr just for voting to.leave koto for actually doing it
0 -
Theuniondivvie said:
*coughs* systematically underfunding a nation's education system for a generation?TheScreamingEagles said:Why are racists such awful spellers ?
https://twitter.com/oceanseyye/status/821092275912589313
One of them even claims he's not racist. No amount of money can fix that much stupid.Theuniondivvie said:
*coughs* systematically underfunding a nation's education system for a generation?TheScreamingEagles said:Why are racists such awful spellers ?
https://twitter.com/oceanseyye/status/8210922759125893130 -
0
-
There's been confusion in recent days about the UK's potential pursuit of a new economic model:
1. That it means becoming an offshore economy, this is often coupled with the term 'tax haven'. That is not what anyone has suggested. Having low corporation tax (perahaps at Ireland's level) does not make a country the Caymen Islands. Low tax rate is distinct from ultra low rates and secrecy, and sometimes being a home to laundered money
2. Some people - a la Corbyn and those who have little knowledge of the EU - seem think that most EU regulation concerns workers rights. Not only has the Government not suggested trimming these, May explicitly said they would be protected yesterday. The point is that there are huge reams of regulation which the EU piles on, over and above what a functioning economy needs. In agriculture - there is the crazy 3 crop rule and much bureaucracy. In biotech there is a hostile environment to GM. In ports there is coming price controls. In tech there are about to be fines for platforms that carry too much American content. Data protection laws now mean costly requirements for companies to have data protection officers, as well as just following standards. Etc.
3. Low wages. Somehow this has joined the lexicon. It is unclear why lowering corporate tax and regulation would lower wages. If anything, the opposite0 -
"Britain's Brexit deal must be inferior to EU membership" says Malta's pm.
Wishful thinking. For the 27 it will surely be inferior. For the UK anything, including WTO fallback, is superior.0 -
It's likely Trump will be re-elected. Prehaps whilst still losing the popular vote becuase there is no reason for those 3 states to go back to the Dems. And if they pick a black woman from California she will be too easy for the GOP to caricature.0
-
There's actually room for a good outcome here.geoffw said:"Britain's Brexit deal must be inferior to EU membership" says Malta's pm.
Wishful thinking. For the 27 it will surely be inferior. For the UK anything, including WTO fallback, is superior.
The EU thinks being outside the single market is inferior. The UK does not. So both sides can get what they want.
If we have to have slightly higher transaction costs through not being full CU members, so be it. Not huge deal to to the economy overall and outweighed by benefits of being able to pursue global trade and outside of growth restricting single market.0 -
Latest news from NI. DUP denials about SPADs being linked to RHI are falling apart.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C2aUGe0XEAEud80.jpg:large
Interesting article by Alex Kane http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/news-analysis/why-vote-mike-and-you-get-colum-is-starting-to-sound-like-a-good-idea-35375053.html
Now here's where it becomes a difficult balancing act. SDLP and UUP have to present themselves as alternative parties of government while appealing to the kind of voters who see compromise as selling out. At least for transfers.
There's an astonishing number of voters here who really do think in black and white terms.0 -
-
Clearly the 40-1 nomination is far superior to the 66-1 POTUS.nunu said:It's likely Trump will be re-elected. Prehaps whilst still losing the popular vote becuase there is no reason for those 3 states to go back to the Dems. And if they pick a black woman from California she will be too easy for the GOP to caricature.
0 -
Hey, I have a bridge for sale. You sound like you might be just the sort of person I could interest...tim80 said:If we have to have slightly higher transaction costs through not being full CU members, so be it. Not huge deal to to the economy overall and outweighed by benefits of being able to pursue global trade and outside of growth restricting single market.
0 -
How do you bet those accounts are real/parody?TheScreamingEagles said:Why are racists such awful spellers ?
https://twitter.com/oceanseyye/status/8210922759125893130 -
This one is particularly bizarre. I was in Singapore a couple of months ago on business, I must say it didnt strike me as particularly destitute, the way they are spraying money around on public works doesn't immediately suggest a country on the edge of ruin.Theuniondivvie said:3. Low wages. Somehow this has joined the lexicon. It is unclear why lowering corporate tax and regulation would lower wages. If anything, the opposite
0 -
The UUP should at least run in every constituency, the DUP look to be up to their neck in it here. At first glance they look to be suspiciously close to the line that says "fraud" rather than "cock up" here if the journalist's report is accurate.Lucian_Fletcher said:Latest news from NI. DUP denials about SPADs being linked to RHI are falling apart.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C2aUGe0XEAEud80.jpg:large
Interesting article by Alex Kane http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/news-analysis/why-vote-mike-and-you-get-colum-is-starting-to-sound-like-a-good-idea-35375053.html
Now here's where it becomes a difficult balancing act. SDLP and UUP have to present themselves as alternative parties of government while appealing to the kind of voters who see compromise as selling out. At least for transfers.
There's an astonishing number of voters here who really do think in black and white terms.0 -
The trouble with May is that when she says something — even if she doesn't speak that often — she does seem to mean it. The commentariat are still acting as though Dave, Brown, or Blair are in power and deconstruct what May says to find the "real" meaning. I don't even particularly like May, and there's quite a bit of non EU related stuff I disagree with, but she appears to be a relatively plain speaking and straightforward person. It would all be a lot simpler if people listened to her.tim80 said:There's been confusion in recent days about the UK's potential pursuit of a new economic model:
1. That it means becoming an offshore economy, this is often coupled with the term 'tax haven'. That is not what anyone has suggested. Having low corporation tax (perahaps at Ireland's level) does not make a country the Caymen Islands. Low tax rate is distinct from ultra low rates and secrecy, and sometimes being a home to laundered money
2. Some people - a la Corbyn and those who have little knowledge of the EU - seem think that most EU regulation concerns workers rights. Not only has the Government not suggested trimming these, May explicitly said they would be protected yesterday. The point is that there are huge reams of regulation which the EU piles on, over and above what a functioning economy needs. In agriculture - there is the crazy 3 crop rule and much bureaucracy. In biotech there is a hostile environment to GM. In ports there is coming price controls. In tech there are about to be fines for platforms that carry too much American content. Data protection laws now mean costly requirements for companies to have data protection officers, as well as just following standards. Etc.
3. Low wages. Somehow this has joined the lexicon. It is unclear why lowering corporate tax and regulation would lower wages. If anything, the opposite0 -
Yes I agree. Moreover the noise made by remainers about our great loss from losing the single market actually works to our advantage as it persuades some in the EU that Brexit really is a cost to us. Reminds me of the Brer Rabbit story, saying to Brer Fox: "Do anything, but for Lord’s sake don’t fling me into that briar patch."tim80 said:
There's actually room for a good outcome here.geoffw said:"Britain's Brexit deal must be inferior to EU membership" says Malta's pm.
Wishful thinking. For the 27 it will surely be inferior. For the UK anything, including WTO fallback, is superior.
The EU thinks being outside the single market is inferior. The UK does not. So both sides can get what they want.
If we have to have slightly higher transaction costs through not being full CU members, so be it. Not huge deal to to the economy overall and outweighed by benefits of being able to pursue global trade and outside of growth restricting single market.
0 -
The problem is that the British press believed May when she said walking away was better than a bad deal, but don't believe the EU when they say walking away would be madness, but if we want to shoot ourselves they won't stop usglw said:The trouble with May is that when she says something — even if she doesn't speak that often — she does seem to mean it. The commentariat are still acting as though Dave, Brown, or Blair are in power and deconstruct what May says to find the "real" meaning.
0 -
https://twitter.com/HouseOfTraitors/status/821461947661111300
Remind you of anyone you know?0 -
-
If Bercow is stepping down as speaker, isn't that another by-election incoming? (although next year probably)0
-
German Elections slated in for 24th September0
-
In the old days, one way of gambling on an assassination or even natural death was to arrange a life insurance policy on the subject, in the hope that they might collect.MikeK said:On Thread.
Kamala Harris is too much of a long shot, besides which I think that the GOP or similar will win the next US election, too.
My reasoning is this:
Donald Trump will make at least a partial success of his term in office. Even if he dies, mid term, Pence will take over the mantel and continue some of Trump's policies.
The Democrats will still be seen as the party of the elite by the majority of voters: even more so by the bitter infighting for power within the party
If Trump survives his first 4 years he will easily win a second term.
This all predicated on the fact that Trump will not be assassinated or simply murdered by fanatical Democratic Liberals as many Democratic politicians have threatened.
Trumps Inauguration will be the most heavily guarded and protected since Reagan, and if an assassin did slip through the net the security services will be blamed and wouldn't be trusted for a generation.
Black Market bets are going around (no names mentioned) that Trump will be picked of before or on inauguration day. Sickening but true!
This has been stopped - however, for instance, a major fete or sporting event might be allowed to take out life insurance on HRH/ Prince Philip on the argument that the event would lose a lot of money if it had to be cancelled due to the death of either of the above.0 -
Best rumour I have seen so far, Soubry as his replacementSlackbladder said:If Bercow is stepping down as speaker, isn't that another by-election incoming?
0 -
Link ?Slackbladder said:If Bercow is stepping down as speaker, isn't that another by-election incoming? (although next year probably)
0 -
JP Morgan has warned investors that May's Brexit threats to the EU are 'very dangerous' + 'damaging' for UK jobs their profits.AlastairMeeks said:0 -
People on here when they get banned for spouting racist crap?MikeK said:https://twitter.com/HouseOfTraitors/status/821461947661111300
Remind you of anyone you know?0 -
She'd actually be quite good I think.Scott_P said:
Best rumour I have seen so far, Soubry as his replacementSlackbladder said:If Bercow is stepping down as speaker, isn't that another by-election incoming?
0 -
I'm beginning to think that a British 'Singapore' is now the most likely option. It will be the largest experiment in economic recalibration in history. The process will be gruelling and protracted and the outcome unknown. Leave politicians now need to appeal to our sense of national spunk:
'The road will be bumpy, sometimes treacherous. There will be setbacks, despair, disappointment and pain. But the British spirit can overcome the burdens and obstacles cruel fate has hurled - as it has always overcome them, as it must overcome them'.0 -
The front page of the Irish News has an interesting picture.Pulpstar said:
The UUP should at least run in every constituency, the DUP look to be up to their neck in it here. At first glance they look to be suspiciously close to the line that says "fraud" rather than "cock up" here if the journalist's report is accurate.Lucian_Fletcher said:Latest news from NI. DUP denials about SPADs being linked to RHI are falling apart.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C2aUGe0XEAEud80.jpg:large
Interesting article by Alex Kane http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/news-analysis/why-vote-mike-and-you-get-colum-is-starting-to-sound-like-a-good-idea-35375053.html
Now here's where it becomes a difficult balancing act. SDLP and UUP have to present themselves as alternative parties of government while appealing to the kind of voters who see compromise as selling out. At least for transfers.
There's an astonishing number of voters here who really do think in black and white terms.
I am concerned that the UUP won't have enough candidates if the DUP vote does fall through the floor. Opinion polling is rare here but we're expecting a poll at the end of the month which will be interesting.0 -
Except, according to sane, rationale people (ie Remainers) being inside the single market is superior for the UK's economy with necessary oversight by the ECJ resulting in negligible impingement upon sovereignty, while, according to swivel-eyed loons (ie Leavers), being inside the single market is inferior for the UK on account of the huge diminution of sovereignty and the concomitant oppressive yoke of the EU bureaucracy.tim80 said:
There's actually room for a good outcome here.geoffw said:"Britain's Brexit deal must be inferior to EU membership" says Malta's pm.
Wishful thinking. For the 27 it will surely be inferior. For the UK anything, including WTO fallback, is superior.
The EU thinks being outside the single market is inferior. The UK does not. So both sides can get what they want.
If we have to have slightly higher transaction costs through not being full CU members, so be it. Not huge deal to to the economy overall and outweighed by benefits of being able to pursue global trade and outside of growth restricting single market.0 -
Nope. They were not. They were based on the vote nothing more. Stop rewriting history.Scott_P said:
And Richard ignores the forecasts were based on triggering article 50 "right away", which hasn't happened.Richard_Tyndall said:Again Scott ignores the fact that the Treasury were making claims of fisastrr just for voting to.leave koto for actually doing it
0 -
Ha, ha - consultants, lawyers, banks and similar are going to make an absolute fortune from Brexit.AlsoIndigo said:
JP Morgan has warned investors that May's Brexit threats to the EU are 'very dangerous' + 'damaging' for UK jobs their profits.AlastairMeeks said:
0 -
Project fear continues.AlastairMeeks said:0 -
You say that like it's a bad thing.SouthamObserver said:
Ha, ha - consultants, lawyers, banks and similar are going to make an absolute fortune from Brexit.AlsoIndigo said:
JP Morgan has warned investors that May's Brexit threats to the EU are 'very dangerous' + 'damaging' for UK jobs their profits.AlastairMeeks said:0 -
Interesting para in Waugh's daily update:
Talk of a snap general election persists only among a small number of Tory backbenchers, but a general election if the final Brexit plan is voted down is very much alive. One Cabinet minister told The Sun: “The PM knows she always has the voters up her sleeve, and she wants to keep them there. If Parliament tries to block the deal she has brokered and recommended, she will then go to the country.”
It's a risk to think that voters always stay up your sleeve - they have minds of their own. I rather like the idea of an election which hinges on whether to accept an imperfect EU deal achieved after endless grumbling or not. I think we'd be in with a much better shot than in a generic GE - if Labour rejects the deal and proposes a fresh approach, there's the 48% plus anyone unhappy with the deal to play for. If the Tories start wittering about Corbyn once being polite to Hamas when everyone's deciding on Brexit, it'll look like evasion.
Lots of ifs there, and we'll see. But the reluctance of Ministers to say what happens if Parliament rejects the deal is really very interesting.0 -
Isn't it just going to complicate a few pensions?AlastairMeeks said:
You say that like it's a bad thing.SouthamObserver said:
Ha, ha - consultants, lawyers, banks and similar are going to make an absolute fortune from Brexit.AlsoIndigo said:
JP Morgan has warned investors that May's Brexit threats to the EU are 'very dangerous' + 'damaging' for UK jobs their profits.AlastairMeeks said:0 -
The government realised (or was told) that there was no option to stay in the single market without the four freedoms. The trading benefits of the single market were expounded at length in the campaign, and the dangers of leaving it were also expounded at length by Osborne and Cameron amongst others. The voters decided to leave, and recent polling in the last few days shows that they would rather leave the single market than have the four freedoms, the government listened, which is kind of its job.TOPPING said:
Except, according to sane, rationale people (ie Remainers) being inside the single market is superior for the UK's economy with necessary oversight by the ECJ resulting in negligible impingement upon sovereignty, while, according to swivel-eyed loons (ie Leavers), being inside the single market is inferior for the UK on account of the huge diminution of sovereignty and the concomitant oppressive yoke of the EU bureaucracy.tim80 said:
There's actually room for a good outcome here.geoffw said:"Britain's Brexit deal must be inferior to EU membership" says Malta's pm.
Wishful thinking. For the 27 it will surely be inferior. For the UK anything, including WTO fallback, is superior.
The EU thinks being outside the single market is inferior. The UK does not. So both sides can get what they want.
If we have to have slightly higher transaction costs through not being full CU members, so be it. Not huge deal to to the economy overall and outweighed by benefits of being able to pursue global trade and outside of growth restricting single market.0 -
God i love Brexit.SouthamObserver said:
Ha, ha - consultants, lawyers, banks and similar are going to make an absolute fortune from Brexit.AlsoIndigo said:
JP Morgan has warned investors that May's Brexit threats to the EU are 'very dangerous' + 'damaging' for UK jobs their profits.AlastairMeeks said:0 -
Interesting pitch "Ignore this potential PM's views on Hamas and the IRA - the other lot didn't get the moon on a stick that were suggesting they asked for"NickPalmer said:. If the Tories start wittering about Corbyn once being polite to Hamas when everyone's deciding on Brexit, it'll look like evasion.
.
Good luck with that.0 -
What about the productive sectors of the economy thoughAlastairMeeks said:
You say that like it's a bad thing.SouthamObserver said:
Ha, ha - consultants, lawyers, banks and similar are going to make an absolute fortune from Brexit.AlsoIndigo said:
JP Morgan has warned investors that May's Brexit threats to the EU are 'very dangerous' + 'damaging' for UK jobs their profits.AlastairMeeks said: ? 0 -
Nope - but it is a country that does not have a health service that is free at the point of use, does have a very small welfare state and very strict forced saving schemes.AlsoIndigo said:
This one is particularly bizarre. I was in Singapore a couple of months ago on business, I must say it didnt strike me as particularly destitute, the way they are spraying money around on public works doesn't immediately suggest a country on the edge of ruin.Theuniondivvie said:3. Low wages. Somehow this has joined the lexicon. It is unclear why lowering corporate tax and regulation would lower wages. If anything, the opposite
0 -
Why do you think Bercow is stepping down.Slackbladder said:If Bercow is stepping down as speaker, isn't that another by-election incoming? (although next year probably)
Would it be before a general election, at a general election or after the next general election?
On Labour List Chris Bryant said
When asked if he was interested in the role, Bryant said: “Listen, I got rung by the Mail on Sunday on Saturday about this. I failed to predict anything last year in politics. I am finding it quite difficult it hard to predict anything this year so my ability to predict even my own future for next year, let alone John Bercow’s, is absolutely nil… I can’t predict anything… I don’t know what I want to do next week.”0 -
The Tories need to do no such thing, after all the diligent work the Tories have done framing Corbyn over the last five years (by then) his record will speak for itself.NickPalmer said:Interesting para in Waugh's daily update:
Talk of a snap general election persists only among a small number of Tory backbenchers, but a general election if the final Brexit plan is voted down is very much alive. One Cabinet minister told The Sun: “The PM knows she always has the voters up her sleeve, and she wants to keep them there. If Parliament tries to block the deal she has brokered and recommended, she will then go to the country.”
It's a risk to think that voters always stay up your sleeve - they have minds of their own. I rather like the idea of an election which hinges on whether to accept an imperfect EU deal achieved after endless grumbling or not. I think we'd be in with a much better shot than in a generic GE - if Labour rejects the deal and proposes a fresh approach, there's the 48% plus anyone unhappy with the deal to play for. If the Tories start wittering about Corbyn once being polite to Hamas when everyone's deciding on Brexit, it'll look like evasion.
Lots of ifs there, and we'll see. But the reluctance of Ministers to say what happens if Parliament rejects the deal is really very interesting.
You persist in this mythical 48% as well, how many of those were Tories supporting Dave, that will now be supporting Tezzie ? How many were people who believed Osborne and now... dont ?0 -
If you build an economy that is designed to compete internationally on cost, then low wages are a part of that.tim80 said:There's been confusion in recent days about the UK's potential pursuit of a new economic model:
1. That it means becoming an offshore economy, this is often coupled with the term 'tax haven'. That is not what anyone has suggested. Having low corporation tax (perahaps at Ireland's level) does not make a country the Caymen Islands. Low tax rate is distinct from ultra low rates and secrecy, and sometimes being a home to laundered money
2. Some people - a la Corbyn and those who have little knowledge of the EU - seem think that most EU regulation concerns workers rights. Not only has the Government not suggested trimming these, May explicitly said they would be protected yesterday. The point is that there are huge reams of regulation which the EU piles on, over and above what a functioning economy needs. In agriculture - there is the crazy 3 crop rule and much bureaucracy. In biotech there is a hostile environment to GM. In ports there is coming price controls. In tech there are about to be fines for platforms that carry too much American content. Data protection laws now mean costly requirements for companies to have data protection officers, as well as just following standards. Etc.
3. Low wages. Somehow this has joined the lexicon. It is unclear why lowering corporate tax and regulation would lower wages. If anything, the opposite
0 -
There'll be opportunities for bookmakers too.Pulpstar said:
What about the productive sectors of the economy thoughAlastairMeeks said:
You say that like it's a bad thing.SouthamObserver said:
Ha, ha - consultants, lawyers, banks and similar are going to make an absolute fortune from Brexit.AlsoIndigo said:
JP Morgan has warned investors that May's Brexit threats to the EU are 'very dangerous' + 'damaging' for UK jobs their profits.AlastairMeeks said: ?0 -
Your words are like a dagger to my heart.Pulpstar said:
What about the productive sectors of the economy thoughAlastairMeeks said:
You say that like it's a bad thing.SouthamObserver said:
Ha, ha - consultants, lawyers, banks and similar are going to make an absolute fortune from Brexit.AlsoIndigo said:
JP Morgan has warned investors that May's Brexit threats to the EU are 'very dangerous' + 'damaging' for UK jobs their profits.AlastairMeeks said: ?0 -
How do you propose to get to the point where Labour can agree amongst themselves that the deal is rejectable and give any idea what the alternative would be. Corbyn wants FoM and John Mann doesn't.NickPalmer said:Interesting para in Waugh's daily update:
Talk of a snap general election persists only among a small number of Tory backbenchers, but a general election if the final Brexit plan is voted down is very much alive. One Cabinet minister told The Sun: “The PM knows she always has the voters up her sleeve, and she wants to keep them there. If Parliament tries to block the deal she has brokered and recommended, she will then go to the country.”
It's a risk to think that voters always stay up your sleeve - they have minds of their own. I rather like the idea of an election which hinges on whether to accept an imperfect EU deal achieved after endless grumbling or not. I think we'd be in with a much better shot than in a generic GE - if Labour rejects the deal and proposes a fresh approach, there's the 48% plus anyone unhappy with the deal to play for. If the Tories start wittering about Corbyn once being polite to Hamas when everyone's deciding on Brexit, it'll look like evasion.
Lots of ifs there, and we'll see. But the reluctance of Ministers to say what happens if Parliament rejects the deal is really very interesting.0 -
Undoubtedly spoof accounts
Anthony Joshua sent vile abuse from trolls after IBF World heavyweight champion posts picture of himself praying in a mosque
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.mirror.co.uk/sport/boxing/anthony-joshua-sent-vile-abuse-9641114.amp0 -
The rest of europe never really subscribed to a "single market" for bookmaking anyway, bit odd that.Tissue_Price said:
There'll be opportunities for bookmakers too.Pulpstar said:
What about the productive sectors of the economy thoughAlastairMeeks said:
You say that like it's a bad thing.SouthamObserver said:
Ha, ha - consultants, lawyers, banks and similar are going to make an absolute fortune from Brexit.AlsoIndigo said:
JP Morgan has warned investors that May's Brexit threats to the EU are 'very dangerous' + 'damaging' for UK jobs their profits.AlastairMeeks said: ?0 -
True... do the people there feel the worse for it ? Or do they like being a cutting edge economy. I was in Singapore on and off for 5 years a couple of decades ago, and my experience was that they seem pretty happy with their lot, plenty of work, plenty of money, fantastic services and facilities...SouthamObserver said:
Nope - but it is a country that does not have a health service that is free at the point of use, does have a very small welfare state and very strict forced saving schemes.AlsoIndigo said:
This one is particularly bizarre. I was in Singapore a couple of months ago on business, I must say it didnt strike me as particularly destitute, the way they are spraying money around on public works doesn't immediately suggest a country on the edge of ruin.Theuniondivvie said:3. Low wages. Somehow this has joined the lexicon. It is unclear why lowering corporate tax and regulation would lower wages. If anything, the opposite
When you land at Changi and look out to sea on final approach you can see container ships queuing over the horizon to dock at the Port of Singapore, there was a time when Port of London was like that.0 -
Oh absolutely. That wasn't what I said in my post. I was just comparing the views of the sane, rationale folk with the swivel-eyed loons.AlsoIndigo said:
The government realised (or was told) that there was no option to stay in the single market without the four freedoms. The trading benefits of the single market were expounded at length in the campaign, and the dangers of leaving it were also expounded at length by Osborne and Cameron amongst others. The voters decided to leave, and recent polling in the last few days shows that they would rather leave the single market than have the four freedoms, the government listened, which is kind of its job.TOPPING said:
Except, according to sane, rationale people (ie Remainers) being inside the single market is superior for the UK's economy with necessary oversight by the ECJ resulting in negligible impingement upon sovereignty, while, according to swivel-eyed loons (ie Leavers), being inside the single market is inferior for the UK on account of the huge diminution of sovereignty and the concomitant oppressive yoke of the EU bureaucracy.tim80 said:
There's actually room for a good outcome here.geoffw said:"Britain's Brexit deal must be inferior to EU membership" says Malta's pm.
Wishful thinking. For the 27 it will surely be inferior. For the UK anything, including WTO fallback, is superior.
The EU thinks being outside the single market is inferior. The UK does not. So both sides can get what they want.
If we have to have slightly higher transaction costs through not being full CU members, so be it. Not huge deal to to the economy overall and outweighed by benefits of being able to pursue global trade and outside of growth restricting single market.0 -
Corbyn's support for the IRA will be more potent than his backing of Hamas (particularly in constituencies in the West Midlands), but the Tories will -quite rightly - point to both; as well as his long-time support of Stop the War, an organisation that openly advocated the killing of British troops.NickPalmer said:Interesting para in Waugh's daily update:
Talk of a snap general election persists only among a small number of Tory backbenchers, but a general election if the final Brexit plan is voted down is very much alive. One Cabinet minister told The Sun: “The PM knows she always has the voters up her sleeve, and she wants to keep them there. If Parliament tries to block the deal she has brokered and recommended, she will then go to the country.”
It's a risk to think that voters always stay up your sleeve - they have minds of their own. I rather like the idea of an election which hinges on whether to accept an imperfect EU deal achieved after endless grumbling or not. I think we'd be in with a much better shot than in a generic GE - if Labour rejects the deal and proposes a fresh approach, there's the 48% plus anyone unhappy with the deal to play for. If the Tories start wittering about Corbyn once being polite to Hamas when everyone's deciding on Brexit, it'll look like evasion.
Lots of ifs there, and we'll see. But the reluctance of Ministers to say what happens if Parliament rejects the deal is really very interesting.
Put it this way, Corbyn has contrived to make himself less trusted than May on the NHS, despite most voters believing that it is currently suffering a humanitarian disaster.
He is the Tory get out of jail free card.
0 -
Les grenouilles hate Betfair.Pulpstar said:
The rest of europe never really subscribed to a "single market" for bookmaking anyway, bit odd that.Tissue_Price said:
There'll be opportunities for bookmakers too.Pulpstar said:
What about the productive sectors of the economy thoughAlastairMeeks said:
You say that like it's a bad thing.SouthamObserver said:
Ha, ha - consultants, lawyers, banks and similar are going to make an absolute fortune from Brexit.AlsoIndigo said:
JP Morgan has warned investors that May's Brexit threats to the EU are 'very dangerous' + 'damaging' for UK jobs their profits.AlastairMeeks said: ?
Epic sad face0 -
Plus I am not 100% sure the freedom-loving, taking-control British public are quite ready for a Confucian state opining on everything from chewing gum to haircuts.SouthamObserver said:
Nope - but it is a country that does not have a health service that is free at the point of use, does have a very small welfare state and very strict forced saving schemes.AlsoIndigo said:
This one is particularly bizarre. I was in Singapore a couple of months ago on business, I must say it didnt strike me as particularly destitute, the way they are spraying money around on public works doesn't immediately suggest a country on the edge of ruin.Theuniondivvie said:3. Low wages. Somehow this has joined the lexicon. It is unclear why lowering corporate tax and regulation would lower wages. If anything, the opposite
0 -
I think it was one of the reasons remain lost, Britain follows every bloody rule to the letter whereas the continent tends to just ignore those they don't, or make up convenient fictions (French protectionist gambling for instance).TheScreamingEagles said:
Les grenouilles hate Betfair.Pulpstar said:
The rest of europe never really subscribed to a "single market" for bookmaking anyway, bit odd that.Tissue_Price said:
There'll be opportunities for bookmakers too.Pulpstar said:
What about the productive sectors of the economy thoughAlastairMeeks said:
You say that like it's a bad thing.SouthamObserver said:
Ha, ha - consultants, lawyers, banks and similar are going to make an absolute fortune from Brexit.AlsoIndigo said:
JP Morgan has warned investors that May's Brexit threats to the EU are 'very dangerous' + 'damaging' for UK jobs their profits.AlastairMeeks said: ?
Epic sad face
There are other examples, freedom of movement in Belgium! is alot more qualified than here.
People say oh this and that doesn't matter, it seems a mentality that is particularly prevalent in the public sector (Oh the extra billion a year due to PFI from the counterfactual of proper public borrowing or w/e for the NHS doesn't REALLY matter) but little things add up, inches become miles, billions become trillions.0 -
Yep - the Tory right has long fantasised about turning the UK into Singapore. We will see whether actually doing so is popular among British voters, who - unlike the Singaporeans - live in a democracy.AlsoIndigo said:
True... do the people there feel the worse for it ? Or do they like being a cutting edge economy. I was in Singapore on and off for 5 years a couple of decades ago, and my experience was that they seem pretty happy with their lot, plenty of work, plenty of money, fantastic services and facilities...SouthamObserver said:
Nope - but it is a country that does not have a health service that is free at the point of use, does have a very small welfare state and very strict forced saving schemes.AlsoIndigo said:
This one is particularly bizarre. I was in Singapore a couple of months ago on business, I must say it didnt strike me as particularly destitute, the way they are spraying money around on public works doesn't immediately suggest a country on the edge of ruin.Theuniondivvie said:3. Low wages. Somehow this has joined the lexicon. It is unclear why lowering corporate tax and regulation would lower wages. If anything, the opposite
When you land at Changi and look out to sea on final approach you can see container ships queuing over the horizon to dock at the Port of Singapore, there was a time when Port of London was like that.
0 -
Well, we disagree about the single market, but that's not really the point. The UK gov is headed by people actively supportive of or content with leaving it. The EU clearly thinks the benefits are much greater.TOPPING said:
Except, according to sane, rationale people (ie Remainers) being inside the single market is superior for the UK's economy with necessary oversight by the ECJ resulting in negligible impingement upon sovereignty, while, according to swivel-eyed loons (ie Leavers), being inside the single market is inferior for the UK on account of the huge diminution of sovereignty and the concomitant oppressive yoke of the EU bureaucracy.tim80 said:
There's actually room for a good outcome here.geoffw said:"Britain's Brexit deal must be inferior to EU membership" says Malta's pm.
Wishful thinking. For the 27 it will surely be inferior. For the UK anything, including WTO fallback, is superior.
The EU thinks being outside the single market is inferior. The UK does not. So both sides can get what they want.
If we have to have slightly higher transaction costs through not being full CU members, so be it. Not huge deal to to the economy overall and outweighed by benefits of being able to pursue global trade and outside of growth restricting single market.
Deals get done when each party values things differently. The point stands - the EU may believe we are worse off with a deal even if we do not. That is positive to a deal being done.0 -
I suspect the view looks a little different between working in the City for a finance company and driving a forklift in Stevenage. The former can appreciate how much better off the Single Market will make him, the later can't see how it will change his life at all, doesn't care if the first is richer or not, and is concerned about Eastern Europeans coming and offering to do his job for less money, or for more hours and pushing him into a part time job.TOPPING said:
Oh absolutely. That wasn't what I said in my post. I was just comparing the views of the sane, rationale folk with the swivel-eyed loons.AlsoIndigo said:
The government realised (or was told) that there was no option to stay in the single market without the four freedoms. The trading benefits of the single market were expounded at length in the campaign, and the dangers of leaving it were also expounded at length by Osborne and Cameron amongst others. The voters decided to leave, and recent polling in the last few days shows that they would rather leave the single market than have the four freedoms, the government listened, which is kind of its job.TOPPING said:
Except, according to sane, rationale people (ie Remainers) being inside the single market is superior for the UK's economy with necessary oversight by the ECJ resulting in negligible impingement upon sovereignty, while, according to swivel-eyed loons (ie Leavers), being inside the single market is inferior for the UK on account of the huge diminution of sovereignty and the concomitant oppressive yoke of the EU bureaucracy.tim80 said:
There's actually room for a good outcome here.geoffw said:"Britain's Brexit deal must be inferior to EU membership" says Malta's pm.
Wishful thinking. For the 27 it will surely be inferior. For the UK anything, including WTO fallback, is superior.
The EU thinks being outside the single market is inferior. The UK does not. So both sides can get what they want.
If we have to have slightly higher transaction costs through not being full CU members, so be it. Not huge deal to to the economy overall and outweighed by benefits of being able to pursue global trade and outside of growth restricting single market.
You might want to consider that those "swivel-eyed loons" are making a perfectly rational decision based on the world as it appears from where they sit.0 -
I fear you may be right Nick. The Tories seem to be increasingly relying on a May personality cult to see them home. There aren't many Tories now claiming Brexit as any kind of vote winner: it seems to be regarded as (at best) vote neutral and a thing to be endured until it somehow resolves itself.NickPalmer said:Interesting para in Waugh's daily update:
Talk of a snap general election persists only among a small number of Tory backbenchers, but a general election if the final Brexit plan is voted down is very much alive. One Cabinet minister told The Sun: “The PM knows she always has the voters up her sleeve, and she wants to keep them there. If Parliament tries to block the deal she has brokered and recommended, she will then go to the country.”
It's a risk to think that voters always stay up your sleeve - they have minds of their own. I rather like the idea of an election which hinges on whether to accept an imperfect EU deal achieved after endless grumbling or not. I think we'd be in with a much better shot than in a generic GE - if Labour rejects the deal and proposes a fresh approach, there's the 48% plus anyone unhappy with the deal to play for. If the Tories start wittering about Corbyn once being polite to Hamas when everyone's deciding on Brexit, it'll look like evasion.
Lots of ifs there, and we'll see. But the reluctance of Ministers to say what happens if Parliament rejects the deal is really very interesting.0 -
Wasn't protectionism. They thought exchanges lead to gambling addictions/problems.Pulpstar said:
I think it was one of the reasons remain lost, Britain has to follow every bloody rule to the letter whereas the continent tends to just ignore those they don't, or make up convenient fictions (French protectionist gambling for instance).TheScreamingEagles said:
Les grenouilles hate Betfair.Pulpstar said:
The rest of europe never really subscribed to a "single market" for bookmaking anyway, bit odd that.Tissue_Price said:
There'll be opportunities for bookmakers too.Pulpstar said:
What about the productive sectors of the economy thoughAlastairMeeks said:
You say that like it's a bad thing.SouthamObserver said:
Ha, ha - consultants, lawyers, banks and similar are going to make an absolute fortune from Brexit.AlsoIndigo said:
JP Morgan has warned investors that May's Brexit threats to the EU are 'very dangerous' + 'damaging' for UK jobs their profits.AlastairMeeks said: ?
Epic sad face0 -
You first...Richard_Tyndall said:Stop rewriting history.
Here is some history for you
there is only one way to bring that about, namely to trigger article 50 of the treaties and begin the process of exit, and the British people would rightly expect that to start straight away0 -
Lol, did you buy that guff ? All about protecting the Paris-Mutuel.TheScreamingEagles said:
Wasn't protectionism. They thought exchanges lead to gambling addictions/problems.Pulpstar said:
I think it was one of the reasons remain lost, Britain has to follow every bloody rule to the letter whereas the continent tends to just ignore those they don't, or make up convenient fictions (French protectionist gambling for instance).TheScreamingEagles said:
Les grenouilles hate Betfair.Pulpstar said:
The rest of europe never really subscribed to a "single market" for bookmaking anyway, bit odd that.Tissue_Price said:
There'll be opportunities for bookmakers too.Pulpstar said:
What about the productive sectors of the economy thoughAlastairMeeks said:
You say that like it's a bad thing.SouthamObserver said:
Ha, ha - consultants, lawyers, banks and similar are going to make an absolute fortune from Brexit.AlsoIndigo said:
JP Morgan has warned investors that May's Brexit threats to the EU are 'very dangerous' + 'damaging' for UK jobs their profits.AlastairMeeks said: ?
Epic sad face0 -
Have you thought this through?SouthamObserver said:
If you build an economy that is designed to compete internationally on cost, then low wages are a part of that.tim80 said:There's been confusion in recent days about the UK's potential pursuit of a new economic model:
1. That it means becoming an offshore economy, this is often coupled with the term 'tax haven'. That is not what anyone has suggested. Having low corporation tax (perahaps at Ireland's level) does not make a country the Caymen Islands. Low tax rate is distinct from ultra low rates and secrecy, and sometimes being a home to laundered money
2. Some people - a la Corbyn and those who have little knowledge of the EU - seem think that most EU regulation concerns workers rights. Not only has the Government not suggested trimming these, May explicitly said they would be protected yesterday. The point is that there are huge reams of regulation which the EU piles on, over and above what a functioning economy needs. In agriculture - there is the crazy 3 crop rule and much bureaucracy. In biotech there is a hostile environment to GM. In ports there is coming price controls. In tech there are about to be fines for platforms that carry too much American content. Data protection laws now mean costly requirements for companies to have data protection officers, as well as just following standards. Etc.
3. Low wages. Somehow this has joined the lexicon. It is unclear why lowering corporate tax and regulation would lower wages. If anything, the opposite
Government sets tax and regulation. Workers and employers bargain for wages. Government does not mandate low wages. It could lower the minimum wage but that's actually the reverse to the direction the government seems set on.
The original point stands - if the government succeeds in lowering business tax and regulation (one can debate if this is possible but for the sake of argument let's say it is) that has no downward impact on wages. If anything it pushes wages up because it increases demand.
Tagging 'low wage' onto low tax and low regulation is political rhetoric.0 -
Our clients, mostly. The vile, disgusting, unpatriotic, liberal metropolitan elite is going to do very well out of Brexit.AlastairMeeks said:
You say that like it's a bad thing.SouthamObserver said:
Ha, ha - consultants, lawyers, banks and similar are going to make an absolute fortune from Brexit.AlsoIndigo said:
JP Morgan has warned investors that May's Brexit threats to the EU are 'very dangerous' + 'damaging' for UK jobs their profits.AlastairMeeks said:
0 -
169 Forklift Driver jobs in Stevenage.AlsoIndigo said:
I suspect the view looks a little different between working in the City for a finance company and driving a forklift in Stevenage. The former can appreciate how much better off the Single Market will make him, the later can't see how it will change his life at all, doesn't care if the first is richer or not, and is concerned about Eastern Europeans coming and offering to do his job for less money, or for more hours and pushing him into a part time job.TOPPING said:
Oh absolutely. That wasn't what I said in my post. I was just comparing the views of the sane, rationale folk with the swivel-eyed loons.AlsoIndigo said:
The government realised (or was told) that there was no option to stay in the single market without the four freedoms. The trading benefits of the single market were expounded at length in the campaign, and the dangers of leaving it were also expounded at length by Osborne and Cameron amongst others. The voters decided to leave, and recent polling in the last few days shows that they would rather leave the single market than have the four freedoms, the government listened, which is kind of its job.TOPPING said:
Except, according to sane, rationale people (ie Remainers) being inside the single market is superior for the UK's economy with necessary oversight by td the concomitant oppressive yoke of the EU bureaucracy.tim80 said:
There's actually room for a good outcome here.geoffw said:"Britain's Brexit deal must be inferior to EU membership" says Malta's pm.
Wishful thinking. For the 27 it will surely be inferior. For the UK anything, including WTO fallback, is superior.
The EU thinks being outside the single market is inferior. The UK does not. So both sides can get what they want.
If we have to have slightly higher transaction costs through not being full CU members, so be it. Not huge deal to to the economy overall and outweighed by benefits of being able to pursue global trade and outside of growth restricting single market.
You might want to consider that those "swivel-eyed loons" are making a perfectly rational decision based on the world as it appears from where they sit.
https://uk.jora.com/Forklift-jobs-in-Stevenage-District?utm_campaign=dynamic&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&gclid=CI6uqtHSy9ECFQg6GwodAdwKXw
One at random - £15-16/hr depending on experience.
Like many Leaver "facts" they don't hold up to a moment's analysis.0 -
neither does IrelandSouthamObserver said:
Nope - but it is a country that does not have a health service that is free at the point of use, does have a very small welfare state and very strict forced saving schemes.AlsoIndigo said:
This one is particularly bizarre. I was in Singapore a couple of months ago on business, I must say it didnt strike me as particularly destitute, the way they are spraying money around on public works doesn't immediately suggest a country on the edge of ruin.Theuniondivvie said:3. Low wages. Somehow this has joined the lexicon. It is unclear why lowering corporate tax and regulation would lower wages. If anything, the opposite
0 -
Very tenuously related, but there'd have been an uproar if we'd banned Danish/Dutch pork products on account of their lower animal welfare standards.TheScreamingEagles said:
Wasn't protectionism. They thought exchanges lead to gambling addictions/problems.Pulpstar said:
I think it was one of the reasons remain lost, Britain has to follow every bloody rule to the letter whereas the continent tends to just ignore those they don't, or make up convenient fictions (French protectionist gambling for instance).TheScreamingEagles said:
Les grenouilles hate Betfair.Pulpstar said:
The rest of europe never really subscribed to a "single market" for bookmaking anyway, bit odd that.Tissue_Price said:
There'll be opportunities for bookmakers too.Pulpstar said:
What about the productive sectors of the economy thoughAlastairMeeks said:
You say that like it's a bad thing.SouthamObserver said:
Ha, ha - consultants, lawyers, banks and similar are going to make an absolute fortune from Brexit.AlsoIndigo said:
JP Morgan has warned investors that May's Brexit threats to the EU are 'very dangerous' + 'damaging' for UK jobs their profits.AlastairMeeks said: ?
Epic sad face
A single market should mean just that, or its meaningless.0 -
SouthamObserver said:
If you build an economy that is designed to compete internationally on cost, then low wages are a part of that.tim80 said:There's been confusion in recent days about the UK's potential pursuit of a new economic model:
1. Th money
2. Some people - a la Corbyn and those who have little knowledge of the EU - seem think that most EU regulation concerns workers rights. Not only has the Government not suggested trimming these, May explicitly said they would be protected yesterday. The point is that there are huge reams of regulation which the EU piles on, over and above what a functioning economy needs. In agriculture - there is the crazy 3 crop rule and much bureaucracy. In biotech there is a hostile environment to GM. In ports there is coming price controls. In tech there are about to be fines for platforms that carry too much American content. Data protection laws now mean costly requirements for companies to have data protection officers, as well as just following standards. Etc.
3. Low wages. Somehow this has joined the lexicon. It is unclear why lowering corporate tax and regulation would lower wages. If anything, the opposite
Like Ireland?SouthamObserver said:
If you build an economy that is designed to compete internationally on cost, then low wages are a part of that.tim80 said:There's been confusion in recent days about the UK's potential pursuit of a new economic model:
1. That it means becoming an offshore economy, this is often coupled with the term 'tax haven'. That is not what anyone has suggested. Having low corporation tax (perahaps at Ireland's level) does not make a country the Caymen Islands. Low tax rate is distinct from ultra low rates and secrecy, and sometimes being a home to laundered money
2. Some people - a la Corbyn and those who have little knowledge of the EU - seem think that most EU regulation concerns workers rights. Not only has the Government not suggested trimming these, May explicitly said they would be protected yesterday. The point is that there are huge reams of regulation which the EU piles on, over and above what a functioning economy needs. In agriculture - there is the crazy 3 crop rule and much bureaucracy. In biotech there is a hostile environment to GM. In ports there is coming price controls. In tech there are about to be fines for platforms that carry too much American content. Data protection laws now mean costly requirements for companies to have data protection officers, as well as just following standards. Etc.
3. Low wages. Somehow this has joined the lexicon. It is unclear why lowering corporate tax and regulation would lower wages. If anything, the opposite0 -
if we are serious about animal welfare we shouldPulpstar said:
Very tenuously related, but there'd have been an uproar if we'd banned Danish/Dutch pork products on account of their lower animal welfare standards.TheScreamingEagles said:
Wasn't protectionism. They thought exchanges lead to gambling addictions/problems.Pulpstar said:
I think it was one of the reasons remain lost, Britain has to follow every bloody rule to the letter whereas the continent tends to just ignore those they don't, or make up convenient fictions (French protectionist gambling for instance).TheScreamingEagles said:
Les grenouilles hate Betfair.Pulpstar said:
The rest of europe never really subscribed to a "single market" for bookmaking anyway, bit odd that.Tissue_Price said:
There'll be opportunities for bookmakers too.Pulpstar said:
What about the productive sectors of the economy thoughAlastairMeeks said:
You say that like it's a bad thing.SouthamObserver said:
Ha, ha - consultants, lawyers, banks and similar are going to make an absolute fortune from Brexit.AlsoIndigo said:
JP Morgan has warned investors that May's Brexit threats to the EU are 'very dangerous' + 'damaging' for UK jobs their profits.AlastairMeeks said: ?
Epic sad face
A single market should mean just that, or its meaningless.0 -
so stop moaningSouthamObserver said:
Our clients, mostly. The vile, disgusting, unpatriotic, liberal metropolitan elite is going to do very well out of Brexit.AlastairMeeks said:
You say that like it's a bad thing.SouthamObserver said:
Ha, ha - consultants, lawyers, banks and similar are going to make an absolute fortune from Brexit.AlsoIndigo said:
JP Morgan has warned investors that May's Brexit threats to the EU are 'very dangerous' + 'damaging' for UK jobs their profits.AlastairMeeks said:0 -
The key being that you need somebody making the stuff your forks are going to lift.TOPPING said:
169 Forklift Driver jobs in Stevenage.
https://uk.jora.com/Forklift-jobs-in-Stevenage-District?utm_campaign=dynamic&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&gclid=CI6uqtHSy9ECFQg6GwodAdwKXw
One at random - £15-16/hr depending on experience.
Like many Leaver "stories" they don't hold up to a moment's analysis.0 -
Corbyn is going to win PMQs again. On Brexit
0 -
@SophyRidgeSky: Corbyn accuses PM of snubbing parliament by not publishing a White Paper on Brexit - "why will it not be scrutinised by this House?" #PMQs0
-
Maybe they are to work at an imported goods distribution depot..edmundintokyo said:
The key being that you need somebody making the stuff your forks are going to lift.TOPPING said:
169 Forklift Driver jobs in Stevenage.
https://uk.jora.com/Forklift-jobs-in-Stevenage-District?utm_campaign=dynamic&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&gclid=CI6uqtHSy9ECFQg6GwodAdwKXw
One at random - £15-16/hr depending on experience.
Like many Leaver "stories" they don't hold up to a moment's analysis.0 -
excellentScott_P said:Corbyn is going to win PMQs again. On Brexit
it will help keep him in situ
none of the voters give a stuff about PMQs0 -
OMG Nice one from Corbyn0
-
Agreed - see the Cummings' blog post for someone who appreciates that decisions made by those affected are likely to be more economically rational than those who are wed to culture/emotions that complicate the matter.AlsoIndigo said:
I suspect the view looks a little different between working in the City for a finance company and driving a forklift in Stevenage. The former can appreciate how much better off the Single Market will make him, the later can't see how it will change his life at all, doesn't care if the first is richer or not, and is concerned about Eastern Europeans coming and offering to do his job for less money, or for more hours and pushing him into a part time job.TOPPING said:
Oh absolutely. That wasn't what I said in my post. I was just comparing the views of the sane, rationale folk with the swivel-eyed loons.AlsoIndigo said:
The government realised (or was told) that there was no option to stay in the single market without the four freedoms. The trading benefits of the single market were expounded at length in the campaign, and the dangers of leaving it were also expounded at length by Osborne and Cameron amongst others. The voters decided to leave, and recent polling in the last few days shows that they would rather leave the single market than have the four freedoms, the government listened, which is kind of its job.TOPPING said:
Except, according to sane, rationale people (ie Remainers) being inside the single market is superior for the UK's economy with necessary oversight by the ECJ resulting in negligible impingement upon sovereignty, while, according to swivel-eyed loons (ie Leavers), being inside the single market is inferior for the UK on account of the huge diminution of sovereignty and the concomitant oppressive yoke of the EU bureaucracy.tim80 said:
There's actually room for a good outcome here.geoffw said:"Britain's Brexit deal must be inferior to EU membership" says Malta's pm.
Wishful thinking. For the 27 it will surely be inferior. For the UK anything, including WTO fallback, is superior.
The EU thinks being outside the single market is inferior. The UK does not. So both sides can get what they want.
If we have to have slightly higher transaction costs through not being full CU members, so be it. Not huge deal to to the economy overall and outweighed by benefits of being able to pursue global trade and outside of growth restricting single market.
You might want to consider that those "swivel-eyed loons" are making a perfectly rational decision based on the world as it appears from where they sit.0 -
169 Forklift Driver jobs in Stevenage.TOPPING said:
https://uk.jora.com/Forklift-jobs-in-Stevenage-District?utm_campaign=dynamic&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&gclid=CI6uqtHSy9ECFQg6GwodAdwKXw
One at random - £15-16/hr depending on experience.
Like many Leaver "facts" they don't hold up to a moment's analysis.
How does finding a job at £15-16 disprove the contention that their wages have been impacted by immigration???0 -
Theresa to Corbyn 'I have a plan you havent a clue'0
-
-
How does finding a job at £15-16 disprove the contention that their wages have been impacted by immigration???tim80 said:
169 Forklift Driver jobs in Stevenage.TOPPING said:
https://uk.jora.com/Forklift-jobs-in-Stevenage-District?utm_campaign=dynamic&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&gclid=CI6uqtHSy9ECFQg6GwodAdwKXw
One at random - £15-16/hr depending on experience.
Like many Leaver "facts" they don't hold up to a moment's analysis.
Because there are 169 job vacancies for forklift truck drivers. Do you think there would be as many vacancies if all the jobs had been taken by lower-wage-demanding furriners?
Edit: 169 job vacancies for forklift truck drivers. In Stevenage.0 -
May mishandled that reply. She should have said "the Minister for Brexit briefed this House and took questions as I was briefing EU Ambassadors. A similar briefing took place in the othe place". Instead she totally ducked it and, rather uncertainly, came out with platitudes. A fail.Big_G_NorthWales said:Theresa to Corbyn 'I have a plan you havent a clue'
EDIT: You would think she would be prepared for this question!0 -
Yep, pretty much:CarlottaVance said:SouthamObserver said:
If you build an economy that is designed to compete internationally on cost, then low wages are a part of that.tim80 said:There's been confusion in recent days about the UK's potential pursuit of a new economic model:
1. Th money
2. Some people - a la Corbyn and those who have little knowledge of the EU - seem think that most EU regulation concerns workers rights. Not only has the Government not suggested trimming these, May explicitly said they would be protected yesterday. The point is that there are huge reams of regulation which the EU piles on, over and above what a functioning economy needs. In agriculture - there is the crazy 3 crop rule and much bureaucracy. In biotech there is a hostile environment to GM. In ports there is coming price controls. In tech there are about to be fines for platforms that carry too much American content. Data protection laws now mean costly requirements for companies to have data protection officers, as well as just following standards. Etc.
3. Low wages. Somehow this has joined the lexicon. It is unclear why lowering corporate tax and regulation would lower wages. If anything, the opposite
Like Ireland?SouthamObserver said:
If you build an economy that is designed to compete internationally on cost, then low wages are a part of that.tim80 said:There's been confusion in recent days about the UK's potential pursuit of a new economic model:
1. That it means becoming an offshore economy, this is often coupled with the term 'tax haven'. That is not what anyone has suggested. Having low corporation tax (perahaps at Ireland's level) does not make a country the Caymen Islands. Low tax rate is distinct from ultra low rates and secrecy, and sometimes being a home to laundered money
2. Some people - a lastandards. Etc.
3. Low wages. Somehow this has joined the lexicon. It is unclear why lowering corporate tax and regulation would lower wages. If anything, the opposite
http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/super-rich-or-super-angry-where-are-you-on-ireland-s-income-pyramid-1.2104861
And in Ireland there is no free at the point of use health service, even though the government has far lower defence spending obligations than the UK does.
0
