dixiedean said:

Beibheirli_C said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

Having said that, it is also true that Jo Swinson's response was a bit inept in its wording.

She can always recant and say she tried, but her back is to the wall and the only hope for NoDeal is to tolerate a Corbyn GNU.

The real question is whether a Corbyn GNU would actually extend A50. "Now we have the Papacy we mean to enjoy it" as the Pope Leo X apparently said.

A Corbyn GNU which didn't extend would surely only last days.

We only have days...

Scott_P said:

Beibheirli_C said:

But surely the Labourites would slay their first-born before they agree to the Prince of Darrkness taking charge?

They said that last time, before Gordo resurrected his career

Yes, but they were terrified of Gordon "Clunking fist" Brown and his fulisade of flying mobile phones.

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Doethur, I'd be interested in hearing the case for the Duke of Goa.

He had practically no soldiers, because Portugal had virtually no inhabitants, and most of those few that were sent to him died of disease.

Yet he still won every battle he fought.

GIN1138 said:

This is what I've been saying would happen:

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/08/why-october-10th-is-boris-johnsons-best-bet-for-a-snap-election/

Boris does a Theresa and calls a general election on the day Parliament returns on 4th September.

"Johnson, however, can pre-empt such manoeuvres on September 4 when Parliament returns by tabling a motion for an early general election, to be held on October 10.

This date is opportune for two reasons. First, Parliament would dissolve by law on September 5. This immediately eliminates the threat of MPs taking control of parliamentary time, keeping the exit date of October 31 intact.

Second, this election date comes a week before the EU Council summit. If his gamble pays off and he were to win a majority, the PM would have the strong negotiating position required to obtain a new deal. If the EU still refuses to budge, the Government could spend the final weeks passing relevant no-deal legislation to minimise disruption before Britain leaves the EU."

The opposition agrees to the election only if BoZo extends Article 50...

Slackbladder said:

https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1162000845656993793

Trouble in the yellow peril...

The Lib Dems are in danger of following the two big parties into Brexit-inspired splits.

kinabalu said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. kinabalu, you can explain whatever you please. It doesn't justify a senior politician marching below the banner of mass murderers.

I didn't seek to justify that. I explained to you why it is deeply inappropriate to draw an equivalence between hard left political views (offensive as one may find them) and the Nazi ideology of Adolf Hitler and the 3rd Reich.

And I thought you had processed and understood. Hence the disappointment.

OK, speaking as somebody who teaches Russian and Soviet history, and has studied the Holocaust, I'll ask. In what meaningful ways were they significantly different?

TheScreamingEagles said:

I'm not sure what's the bigger clusterfuck

1) Brexit

2) The Grand Poobah at the ECB who thought scheduling The Ashes 17 days after the World Cup final was a good idea.

3) The person who thought the Hundred would be a financial success.

Mr. Doethur, I'd be interested in hearing the case for the Duke of Goa.

Mr. Eagles, I didn't vote for a campaign. I voted to leave the EU for reasons I've made plain here many times (happy to repeat if you've forgotten, though I'd be surprised given how active we both are here).

Mr. Rentool, Boris Johnson is an imbecile, and unfit to be in Cabinet let alone leader of the nation. That doesn't make Corbyn anything other than a far left wretch.

I'm not sure what's the bigger clusterfuck

1) Brexit

2) The Grand Poobah at the ECB who thought scheduling The Ashes 17 days after the World Cup final was a good idea.

SandyRentool said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. kinabalu, you can explain whatever you please. It doesn't justify a senior politician marching below the banner of mass murderers.

"marching below the banner" = attending the same rally as someone with a daft banner

I've been on a march where there were SWP placards, plus those of the Lib Dems. Doesn't make me one of either.

Naturally all the wild smears against Corbyn are going to go into overdrive at a time like this.

How many accusations could be made against Boris Johnson with more justification? My God, his great grandfather was actually an official of the anti-semitic Ottoman Empire!

Don't worry YJB will save us then Jofra will bowl the Aussies all out for 26.

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Rentool, does the leader of the Conservative Party?

If not, the comparison's not valid.

The current leader of the Conservative party was front man for a largely bigoted campaign that you voted for.

A campaign the other front man said went too far in whipping up Islamophobic fears.

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Rentool, if a Conservative attended a rally where people had swastikas galore and some banners of Hitler, Eichmann, and Heydrich, would you shrug it off?

https://twitter.com/syd_viciously/status/872616086348353536

The CPGB(ML) are right up your street as they are leavers who don't care for identity politics.

SandyRentool said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Rentool, if a Conservative attended a rally where people had swastikas galore and some banners of Hitler, Eichmann, and Heydrich, would you shrug it off?

https://twitter.com/syd_viciously/status/872616086348353536

Tories just have the flag or apartheid-era South Africa on their mantelpieces.

And nameplate on an A4:

http://www.docbrown.info/docspics/ArchiveSteam/asmisc02/Dsc_1000.jpg

RobD said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. kinabalu, you can explain whatever you please. It doesn't justify a senior politician marching below the banner of mass murderers.

Well if you get triggered by a Soviet flag then wait until see what a former Tory leader did with the Soviets.

The lesser of two evils?

"If Hitler invaded Hell ..."

Its a good job england bat deep....

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Rentool, if a Conservative attended a rally where people had swastikas galore and some banners of Hitler, Eichmann, and Heydrich, would you shrug it off?

https://twitter.com/syd_viciously/status/872616086348353536

Tories just have the flag or apartheid-era South Africa on their mantelpieces.

O/T EMU UPDATE: the search for the missing North Caroline emu continues; meanwhile he now has 5000 Facebook friends and features in a local County advertising campaign.

https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1161999879037685760

https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1162000736559013889

dixiedean said:

rkrkrk said:

eristdoof said:

rkrkrk said:

SirNorfolkPassmore said:

It has to be someone who a majority of MPs think is experienced and competent to be PM (not necessarily great, but able to deal with another emergency should one occur whilst in temporary charge) and who demonstrably has no axe to grind in terms of wanting the job long term.

Corbyn is neither of those - even a fair number of his own MPs severely doubt his competence.

Realistically - as Swinson has said - hard to see past Harman or Clarke.

Clarke is a stretch given they need so many Labour votes. Harman has limited experience of government. John Prescott has the govt experience (and has previously spoken out in support of Jezza i think?)

Harman's goverment shadow government experience
Shadow Cabinet posts 2010-15
Ministerial posts 1997-2010
Shadow Cabinet posts 1992-97
(Source Wikipedia)

I do not call that "limited experience"

Yes, sorry I meant to put 'at senior levels'.
Shadow cabinet stuff is all very nice but I'd have thought someone with a bit more experience running stuff in govt would be desired.

Deleted as inaccurate.

Hey, steady on. Don't want too much of that sort of thing.

Mr. Rentool, if a Conservative attended a rally where people had swastikas galore and some banners of Hitler, Eichmann, and Heydrich, would you shrug it off?

https://twitter.com/syd_viciously/status/872616086348353536

What is Corbyn's position on the Kashmir question?

He does not want to alienate either side I guess, so another Brexit balancing act coming up for him?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-india-kashmir-britain-idUSKCN1V51AL?utm_campaign=trueAnthem:+Trending+Content&utm_content=5d5563326f0c9700014b378d&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter

O/T

https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1161922601561853952?s=21

My daughter, who takes a somewhat different view to me on matters of Brexit, sent me this:

"I'm not saying that there wasn't a democratic mandate for brexit at the time. I'm just saying that if I narrowly decided to order fish in a restaurant that was known for chicken, but said it was happy to offer fish, and so far I've been waiting 3 hours, and two chefs who promised to cook the fish have quit, and the third one is promising to deliver the fish in the next five minutes whether it is cooked or not, or indeed still alive,and all the waiting staff have spent the last few hours arguing amongst themselves about whether I wanted battered cod, grilled salmon, jellied eels or dolphin kebabs, and if large parts of the restaurant appeared to be on fire but no one was paying any attention to it because they were all arguing about fish, I would quite like, just once, to be asked if I definitely still wanted fish."

I thought some on here might appreciate it. Even as a leaver I thought it was bloody funny.

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. kinabalu, you can explain whatever you please. It doesn't justify a senior politician marching below the banner of mass murderers.

Well if you get triggered by a Soviet flag then wait until see what a former Tory leader did with the Soviets.

eristdoof said:

YBarddCwsc said:

Sandpit said:

So, if Johnson and Corbyn are both opposed to a proposed government of “unity” (sic), where do the proposers get 200 defectors from the two largest parties for their majority in a vote of confidence.

I could just about see a couple of dozen MPs willing to commit almost certain career suicide over Brexit, but there’s no chance of a couple of hundred doing so.

Indeed. The thread reads like a Remainer fantasy, with ever more absurd & fantastic people being proposed for a GONU. (Liz Saville Roberts -- she has only been in Parliament for 4 years!)

Cameron had only been in Parliament for four years when he became LOTO, and LOTO should be prepared to become PM at short notice.

True, however Blair had a comfortable majority when Cameron became Tory leader and the prospects of an early snap election - certainly within Cameron's first year as LotO - were slim.

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. kinabalu, you can explain whatever you please. It doesn't justify a senior politician marching below the banner of mass murderers.

"marching below the banner" = attending the same rally as someone with a daft banner

I've been on a march where there were SWP placards, plus those of the Lib Dems. Doesn't make me one of either.

Mr. kinabalu, you can explain whatever you please. It doesn't justify a senior politician marching below the banner of mass murderers.

kinabalu said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Good afternoon, everyone.

Corbyn remains a far left wretch. Would you put into power someone who happily marches beneath Hitler banners? Whose right hand man openly describes himself as a fascist?

Then why contemplate it for Stalin and Marxist, the far left equivalents?

I explained at some length, when you said this last time, why it is highly inappropriate to liken Corbyn to a Nazi sympathizer.

Disappointed, therefore, to see it make another outing.

kinabalu said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Good afternoon, everyone.

Corbyn remains a far left wretch. Would you put into power someone who happily marches beneath Hitler banners? Whose right hand man openly describes himself as a fascist?

Then why contemplate it for Stalin and Marxist, the far left equivalents?

I explained at some length, when you said this last time, why it is highly inappropriate to liken Corbyn to a Nazi sympathizer.

Disappointed, therefore, to see it make another outing.

Read MD post again he’s not saying that corbyn is a nazi sympathizer but the opposite

Morris_Dancer said:

Good afternoon, everyone.

Corbyn remains a far left wretch. Would you put into power someone who happily marches beneath Hitler banners? Whose right hand man openly describes himself as a fascist?

Then why contemplate it for Stalin and Marxist, the far left equivalents?

I explained at some length, when you said this last time, why it is highly inappropriate to liken Corbyn to a Nazi sympathizer.

Disappointed, therefore, to see it make another outing.

ydoethur said:

Pulpstar said:

ydoethur said:

Oh feck, our one decent batsman gone.

England will be pretty lucky to make 200 here.

Cummins may well have his number for the series now, was working him over hard with the short stuff before the dismissal. I note the Aussies finally have a fielder who seems able to catch too !

If Paine keeps dropping easy chances and conceding innumerable byes, Bancroft may find himself keeping wicket before too long.

Who will report to Steve Smith as captain ?

ydoethur said:

Oh feck, our one decent batsman gone.

England will be pretty lucky to make 200 here.

Any Test team with only one good batsman will struggle to get 200.

ydoethur said:

Oh feck, our one decent batsman gone.

England will be pretty lucky to make 200 here.

we didn't lose a single wicket when I was there yesterday.....

ydoethur said:

Oh feck, our one decent batsman gone.

England will be pretty lucky to make 200 here.

Cummins may well have his number for the series now, was working him over hard with the short stuff before the dismissal. I note the Aussies finally have a fielder who seems able to catch too !

JohnO said:

ydoethur said:

JohnO said:

ydoethur said:

MarqueeMark said:

IanB2 said:

kinabalu said:

Let us float above the trees and survey the wood.

Yes, we could get a GNU with Not Corbyn as PM. This is unlikely but possible. But that GNU could not deliver Ref2. All it could do is extend Art 50 to allow a GE.

And for Brexit to be stopped (via Ref2) that GE must put the only feasible alternative to Boris Johnson into Number 10. A chap by the name of Jeremy Corbyn.

Stopping Brexit means PM Jezza. There is no way around this.

Again - sorry.

Not so. The most likely outcome, other than a Bozo win, is a balanced parliament in which the remain parties command a majority. I’d expect it most unlikely that JC would emerge as PM from such a scenario.

Why? The most likely scenario is that Labour is still by some way the largest party in such a remain party majority. So why should Corbyn move, to be replaced by somebody dictated by their electoral opponents?

Because otherwise they don't have to vote for him.

It has happened before that the leader of a minor party (or no party) has been made PM in an emergency as a compromise. It happened in 1940, 1916, and 1852 (when Russell and Palmerston couldn't agree which of them should be PM and settled on Aberdeen as a compromise).

Probably missing something in your argument here but Churchill was a Conservative Cabinet member before becoming PM in 1940 and Lloyd George also a very senior Liberal in 1916; neither was in a minority or no party.

You've misunderstood what I wrote, although with hindsight it wasn't clear. I meant 'people who were leaders of a minor party, or not leaders of any party at all.'

Right, I see. All this talk about who should lead this unsavory temporary government of all the minorities is rapidly shifting me back to Johnson, albeit that he himself has to (seek to) call an election early next month with polling day pre October 31st. Would save an awful lot of trouble.

At this stage, can he be trusted to call an election pre Oct 31st? I'd argue not...

Scrapheap_as_was said:

In Ken we trust...

but not at 25-1

Are you saying it is passed beyond our Ken?

YBarddCwsc said:

eristdoof said:

YBarddCwsc said:

Sandpit said:

So, if Johnson and Corbyn are both opposed to a proposed government of “unity” (sic), where do the proposers get 200 defectors from the two largest parties for their majority in a vote of confidence.

I could just about see a couple of dozen MPs willing to commit almost certain career suicide over Brexit, but there’s no chance of a couple of hundred doing so.

Indeed. The thread reads like a Remainer fantasy, with ever more absurd & fantastic people being proposed for a GONU. (Liz Saville Roberts -- she has only been in Parliament for 4 years!)

Cameron had only been in Parliament for four years when he became LOTO, and LOTO should be prepared to become PM at short notice.

I have met Liz Saville-Roberts. Have you?

I never suggested she should be PM. I just pointed out that only 4 Years in Parliament is not a good reason to exclude someone.

eristdoof said:

Sandpit said:

So, if Johnson and Corbyn are both opposed to a proposed government of “unity” (sic), where do the proposers get 200 defectors from the two largest parties for their majority in a vote of confidence.

I could just about see a couple of dozen MPs willing to commit almost certain career suicide over Brexit, but there’s no chance of a couple of hundred doing so.

Johnson and Corbyn would both be very happy to expel anyone voting against their own party whip in a vote of confidence, people don’t seem to realise this.

Once a VoNC is caried then it is totally different. Voting for an emergency PM with support from all sides would not be political suicide.

For many MPs allowing No Deal will be political suicide.

No it isn’t, that’s the whole point.

Boris Johnson remains leader of the Conservative Party, and Jeremy Corbyn remains leader of the Labour Party.

Anyone who votes against their party whip in a vote of confidence can be expected to lose the whip, deselected at the next election and probably be expelled from the party.

Dominic Grieve might be okay with that, but I don’t think 200 current Con and Lab MPs will be.

Corbyn’s made it quite clear today, that’s either he’s the next PM or we have an election (on a date of Boris Johnson’s choosing).

Corbyn is quite happy for Brexit to happen in six weeks’ time with no deal, he’s never been a supporter of the EU and thinks he can benefit from an election at a time of considerable pressure on the government.

The point of this preliminary flirting is to get as many Tories as possible into bed. The swiping right has started. JC was swiftly dismissed. Ken Clarke and Harriet Harman next to see if the punters get hard.
This will continue until Parliament re-assembles. Either a consensus or not will emerge.
Which was why Corbyn's letter and Swinson's response were vital first moves. Want a bit on the side Tories? Don't worry, it won't be Jezza.
Wouldn't be surprised if hadn't been co-ordinated.

ydoethur said:

Tissue_Price said:

YBarddCwsc said:

Sandpit said:

So, if Johnson and Corbyn are both opposed to a proposed government of “unity” (sic), where do the proposers get 200 defectors from the two largest parties for their majority in a vote of confidence.

I could just about see a couple of dozen MPs willing to commit almost certain career suicide over Brexit, but there’s no chance of a couple of hundred doing so.

Indeed. The thread reads like a Remainer fantasy, with ever more absurd & fantastic people being proposed for a GONU. (Liz Saville Roberts -- she has only been in Parliament for 4 years!)

Almost all MPs are now thinking, "There is a GE coming, feck, will I survive?"

Their absolute best bet for survival is to stick with their party. There will be minimal dissenters.

A handful of maniacs like Grieve may want to die in a ditch for the EU. Most don't.

Grieve isn't actually a terrible shout (though I have laid him!)

Really? I wouldn't have thought he was your type.

I've laid nearly everyone who's anyone in Westminster. Across a variety of markets, natürlich.

TGOHF said:

But Jezza is only promising a ref if he wins a majority in a GE.

So that ain’t happening.

Jezza can see we are leaving - this is just a fig leaf for the post Brexit election.

It could be that he is hoping for a Tory No Deal and a GE after that. But this doesn't matter. If we get a GE before Brexit, the Labour manifesto is going to have Ref2. No doubt about that.

Then if they are largest party, he as PM will have to deliver it in return for the backing of LD and SNP. Thus the fig leaf falls and what is revealed is ... the only feasible path to No Brexit.

Which is PM Corbyn.

Tissue_Price said:

YBarddCwsc said:

Sandpit said:

So, if Johnson and Corbyn are both opposed to a proposed government of “unity” (sic), where do the proposers get 200 defectors from the two largest parties for their majority in a vote of confidence.

I could just about see a couple of dozen MPs willing to commit almost certain career suicide over Brexit, but there’s no chance of a couple of hundred doing so.

Indeed. The thread reads like a Remainer fantasy, with ever more absurd & fantastic people being proposed for a GONU. (Liz Saville Roberts -- she has only been in Parliament for 4 years!)

Almost all MPs are now thinking, "There is a GE coming, feck, will I survive?"

Their absolute best bet for survival is to stick with their party. There will be minimal dissenters.

A handful of maniacs like Grieve may want to die in a ditch for the EU. Most don't.

Grieve isn't actually a terrible shout (though I have laid him!)

Really? I wouldn't have thought he was your type.

YBarddCwsc said:

Sandpit said:

So, if Johnson and Corbyn are both opposed to a proposed government of “unity” (sic), where do the proposers get 200 defectors from the two largest parties for their majority in a vote of confidence.

I could just about see a couple of dozen MPs willing to commit almost certain career suicide over Brexit, but there’s no chance of a couple of hundred doing so.

Indeed. The thread reads like a Remainer fantasy, with ever more absurd & fantastic people being proposed for a GONU. (Liz Saville Roberts -- she has only been in Parliament for 4 years!)

Almost all MPs are now thinking, "There is a GE coming, feck, will I survive?"

Their absolute best bet for survival is to stick with their party. There will be minimal dissenters.

A handful of maniacs like Grieve may want to die in a ditch for the EU. Most don't.

Grieve isn't actually a terrible shout (though I have laid him!)

If he resigned from the Tory party, and committed not to stand at the impending GE, might that be enough for Labour? Even then, probably not. And that's why the GNU isn't going to happen...

If "[t]he possibilities are therefore unthreatening leaders of minor parties or clapped-out grandees", might I suggest we look to the traditional home of unthreatening clapped-out grandees: the Lords?

Tempting though it is for any number of reasons to suggest Michael Heseltine, if we're restricting ourselves to Labour peers, who better than that pro-European, deal-making ex-Brussels Commissioner, Peter Mandelson? (OK, only joking - semi-serious option on the same logic: Kinnock).

williamglenn said:

https://twitter.com/nickeardleybbc/status/1161984289510252546

Seems like Tory remainers are taking a much more measured approach than the Bollocks to Brexit party.

matt said:

I never realised that "unity" is a synonym for "professional liars manoeuvering in the hope of achieving their desired aim while others compromise around them". One learns.

Unity actually means 50% +1 in the current context.

williamglenn said:

IanB2 said:

Ken said:

I have been reading this site for quite a few years, but this is my first comment here and hopefully my last. Thanks to PB I made a few bob betting on dear old Donald Trump and I read PB as an aid to my flutters.

How is this piece aiding the political betting of anyone? You may be all in favour of Corbyn or you may hate his guts but all I want from a political betting site are ideas about placing political bets.

For the record, Corbyn is a Brexiteer of many years standing. He heads a party that has been taken over by Federasts, but there is no evidence to suggest that he has changed his views.

He wants to take over after a no-deal exit that comes with political chaos in its wake. So the last thing he wants is to take over now and sort out the mess. Hence his letter which he must know that the minor parties will not accept and which will rally to Tories to Boris. So, his aim is to make sure that the vote of no-confidence which he has to table will be won by the government.

OK, back to political betting posts, please.

Congratulations on your 23rd contribution to the site.

It looks like his last comment 2 years ago also used the word "federasts" so at least he's consistent.

What is a federast? It is somebody who only buggers Martin Selmayr?