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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Is Corbyn inevitable, unelectable and what happens next for Labour? The latest PB/Polling Matters podcast
In this week’s PB/Polling Matters podcasts, Keiran discusses the Labour leadership with Stephen Bush of the New Statesman and Laurence Janta-Lipinski of YouGov. We ask whether Jeremy Corbyn is inevitable, where Labour goes from here and whether Corbyn could surprise people if he wins. Also, can a non-left Labour candidate win the leadership again and what does the next Labour PM look like..
Comments
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Thanks for this Keiran0
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Why do Harry's local election threads only get about 30 seconds before being superseded?0
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The local electiopn thread should be merged with this one.0
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Corbyn would be in a much better electoral position if he backed Scottish Independence.0
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I very dare you do two threads. The other thread discusses a bye election in Orkney- surely the most important political event of the millennia. How could you even begin to think of distracting us from this?0
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Doublespeak deciphered: Andrew Lansley dares to reveal the truth about David Cameron's EU plan
"It is no secret that politicians use one sort of language in public and another when talking among themselves. For public consumption, everything a politician does is driven by a high-minded desire to do what is right. In private, they acknowledge that low calculation and partisan interest pervade the political process.
When Andrew Lansley was a Cabinet minister, from 2010 to 2014, he remembered how to choose his words carefully in public. Since retiring from the Commons in May, he seems to have forgotten the rules of political doublespeak. Talking to business leaders, he laid bare the tactics that he believes David Cameron will adopt in the run-up to the referendum on British membership in the European Union which Lansley anticipates will be held in September next year.
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/editorials/doublespeak-deciphered-andrew-lansley-dares-to-reveal-the-truth-about-david-camerons-eu-plan-10459808.html0 -
Unwise of Lansley to be so blunt. The point about good PR is that the audience shouldn't realise it's PR.isam said:
Doublespeak deciphered: Andrew Lansley dares to reveal the truth about David Cameron's EU plan
"It is no secret that politicians use one sort of language in public and another when talking among themselves. For public consumption, everything a politician does is driven by a high-minded desire to do what is right. In private, they acknowledge that low calculation and partisan interest pervade the political process.
When Andrew Lansley was a Cabinet minister, from 2010 to 2014, he remembered how to choose his words carefully in public. Since retiring from the Commons in May, he seems to have forgotten the rules of political doublespeak. Talking to business leaders, he laid bare the tactics that he believes David Cameron will adopt in the run-up to the referendum on British membership in the European Union which Lansley anticipates will be held in September next year.
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/editorials/doublespeak-deciphered-andrew-lansley-dares-to-reveal-the-truth-about-david-camerons-eu-plan-10459808.html0 -
That's not news, everyone expects the worst from Cameron not the best.isam said:Doublespeak deciphered: Andrew Lansley dares to reveal the truth about David Cameron's EU plan
"It is no secret that politicians use one sort of language in public and another when talking among themselves. For public consumption, everything a politician does is driven by a high-minded desire to do what is right. In private, they acknowledge that low calculation and partisan interest pervade the political process.
When Andrew Lansley was a Cabinet minister, from 2010 to 2014, he remembered how to choose his words carefully in public. Since retiring from the Commons in May, he seems to have forgotten the rules of political doublespeak. Talking to business leaders, he laid bare the tactics that he believes David Cameron will adopt in the run-up to the referendum on British membership in the European Union which Lansley anticipates will be held in September next year.
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/editorials/doublespeak-deciphered-andrew-lansley-dares-to-reveal-the-truth-about-david-camerons-eu-plan-10459808.html0 -
Why?Dair said:Corbyn would be in a much better electoral position if he backed Scottish Independence.
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It's a line the SNP have been pushing lately. Pete Wishart is all over it.david_herdson said:Why?
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Is Corbyn inevitable
Yes.unelectable
Yes.and what happens next for Labour?
Much infighting, irrelevant policy discussion, battles over reselections, party rule changes - followed by defeat. If they are lucky, they might find someone credible to lead them for after 2020. If they're really lucky, they'll elect them.0 -
No, just lefties like you and the kippers. That's why he's PM of a majority government and your lots, well....Speedy said:
That's not news, everyone expects the worst from Cameron not the best.isam said:Doublespeak deciphered: Andrew Lansley dares to reveal the truth about David Cameron's EU plan
"It is no secret that politicians use one sort of language in public and another when talking among themselves. For public consumption, everything a politician does is driven by a high-minded desire to do what is right. In private, they acknowledge that low calculation and partisan interest pervade the political process.
When Andrew Lansley was a Cabinet minister, from 2010 to 2014, he remembered how to choose his words carefully in public. Since retiring from the Commons in May, he seems to have forgotten the rules of political doublespeak. Talking to business leaders, he laid bare the tactics that he believes David Cameron will adopt in the run-up to the referendum on British membership in the European Union which Lansley anticipates will be held in September next year.
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/editorials/doublespeak-deciphered-andrew-lansley-dares-to-reveal-the-truth-about-david-camerons-eu-plan-10459808.html0 -
Surely Dave wouldn't be so stupid as to create a row with France now. If one does occur it will be forever used as evidence of a stitch up.isam said:Doublespeak deciphered: Andrew Lansley dares to reveal the truth about David Cameron's EU plan
"It is no secret that politicians use one sort of language in public and another when talking among themselves. For public consumption, everything a politician does is driven by a high-minded desire to do what is right. In private, they acknowledge that low calculation and partisan interest pervade the political process.
When Andrew Lansley was a Cabinet minister, from 2010 to 2014, he remembered how to choose his words carefully in public. Since retiring from the Commons in May, he seems to have forgotten the rules of political doublespeak. Talking to business leaders, he laid bare the tactics that he believes David Cameron will adopt in the run-up to the referendum on British membership in the European Union which Lansley anticipates will be held in September next year.
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/editorials/doublespeak-deciphered-andrew-lansley-dares-to-reveal-the-truth-about-david-camerons-eu-plan-10459808.html
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Speedy said:
That's not news, everyone expects the worst from Cameron not the best.isam said:Doublespeak deciphered: Andrew Lansley dares to reveal the truth about David Cameron's EU plan
"It is no secret that politicians use one sort of language in public and another when talking among themselves. For public consumption, everything a politician does is driven by a high-minded desire to do what is right. In private, they acknowledge that low calculation and partisan interest pervade the political process.
When Andrew Lansley was a Cabinet minister, from 2010 to 2014, he remembered how to choose his words carefully in public. Since retiring from the Commons in May, he seems to have forgotten the rules of political doublespeak. Talking to business leaders, he laid bare the tactics that he believes David Cameron will adopt in the run-up to the referendum on British membership in the European Union which Lansley anticipates will be held in September next year.
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/editorials/doublespeak-deciphered-andrew-lansley-dares-to-reveal-the-truth-about-david-camerons-eu-plan-10459808.html
It certainly isn't news, not least because it was in the Telegraph and discussed on here yesterday. More like Olds.
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Good evening, everyone.
Cheers to Mr. Hayfield for his short-lived previous thread, and to Mr. Pedley for this. The length of the podcast means I may have to wait until tomorrow to listen to it, though.
Mr. F, an unkind soul might consider Lansley not to be the sharpest tool in the box.0 -
So you still expect Cameron to do a renegotiation or to simply fluff around on stage with the French and claim victory?JohnO said:
No, just lefties like you and the kippers. That's why he's PM of a majority government and your lots, well....Speedy said:
That's not news, everyone expects the worst from Cameron not the best.isam said:Doublespeak deciphered: Andrew Lansley dares to reveal the truth about David Cameron's EU plan
"It is no secret that politicians use one sort of language in public and another when talking among themselves. For public consumption, everything a politician does is driven by a high-minded desire to do what is right. In private, they acknowledge that low calculation and partisan interest pervade the political process.
When Andrew Lansley was a Cabinet minister, from 2010 to 2014, he remembered how to choose his words carefully in public. Since retiring from the Commons in May, he seems to have forgotten the rules of political doublespeak. Talking to business leaders, he laid bare the tactics that he believes David Cameron will adopt in the run-up to the referendum on British membership in the European Union which Lansley anticipates will be held in September next year.
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/editorials/doublespeak-deciphered-andrew-lansley-dares-to-reveal-the-truth-about-david-camerons-eu-plan-10459808.html0 -
By lately, is that since about 1930?Scott_P said:
It's a line the SNP have been pushing lately. Pete Wishart is all over it.david_herdson said:Why?
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Yes.david_herdson said:Is Corbyn inevitable
unelectable
Yes.and what happens next for Labour?
Much infighting, irrelevant policy discussion, battles over reselections, party rule changes - followed by defeat. If they are lucky, they might find someone credible to lead them for after 2020. If they're really lucky, they'll elect them.
There is no reason why Labour have to exist at all, let alone have the divine right to be the opposition... they have long since betrayed the beliefs and people they formed to represent in the first place0 -
@ScottyNational: DWP:'I thought my career was over after I had to resign due to poor results but DWP found me a cushy London job'- A.Salmond #fakeDWPstories0
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Would seem like that ruse has been rumbled, although if the Calais migrant crisis continues he could have a real one to deal withMP_SE said:
Surely Dave wouldn't be so stupid as to create a row with France now. If one does occur it will be forever used as evidence of a stitch up.isam said:Doublespeak deciphered: Andrew Lansley dares to reveal the truth about David Cameron's EU plan
"It is no secret that politicians use one sort of language in public and another when talking among themselves. For public consumption, everything a politician does is driven by a high-minded desire to do what is right. In private, they acknowledge that low calculation and partisan interest pervade the political process.
When Andrew Lansley was a Cabinet minister, from 2010 to 2014, he remembered how to choose his words carefully in public. Since retiring from the Commons in May, he seems to have forgotten the rules of political doublespeak. Talking to business leaders, he laid bare the tactics that he believes David Cameron will adopt in the run-up to the referendum on British membership in the European Union which Lansley anticipates will be held in September next year.
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/editorials/doublespeak-deciphered-andrew-lansley-dares-to-reveal-the-truth-about-david-camerons-eu-plan-10459808.html0 -
Why? Surely he's in a much better electoral position if he sides with and forms a coalition with his fellow whacky moonbat unilateral nuclear disarmament far-left allies the SNP? How does cutting out the leftwing whackjobs from Northern Britain help him reach a leftwing whackjob majority?Dair said:Corbyn would be in a much better electoral position if he backed Scottish Independence.
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Apparently my Windows 10 "upgrade" (sic) is ready.
Am I?0 -
Mr. P, bit of a changeophobe, but I won't be getting Windows 10 until/unless I must.0
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Upgraded my Laptop (from Win 8) to Win 10 and its performed better. So I upgraded my PC (from Win 7) to Win 10 and I'm having multiple teething problems with it.Scott_P said:Apparently my Windows 10 "upgrade" (sic) is ready.
Am I?
If you're on 8 I'd say go for it, if you're on 7 I'd wait.0 -
That would be backing Scottish Independence wouldn't it?Philip_Thompson said:
Why? Surely he's in a much better electoral position if he sides with and forms a coalition with his fellow whacky moonbat unilateral nuclear disarmament far-left allies the SNP? How does cutting out the leftwing whackjobs from Northern Britain help him reach a leftwing whackjob majority?Dair said:Corbyn would be in a much better electoral position if he backed Scottish Independence.
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Is it faster than v8? My laptop is very slow on W8Philip_Thompson said:
Upgraded my Laptop (from Win 8) to Win 10 and its performed better. So I upgraded my PC (from Win 7) to Win 10 and I'm having multiple teething problems with it.Scott_P said:Apparently my Windows 10 "upgrade" (sic) is ready.
Am I?
If you're on 8 I'd say go for it, if you're on 7 I'd wait.0 -
I had a few problems for a few days but they seem to resolve themselves.Philip_Thompson said:
Upgraded my Laptop (from Win 8) to Win 10 and its performed better. So I upgraded my PC (from Win 7) to Win 10 and I'm having multiple teething problems with it.Scott_P said:Apparently my Windows 10 "upgrade" (sic) is ready.
Am I?
If you're on 8 I'd say go for it, if you're on 7 I'd wait.
But I am the rare species of getting on with Windows 8 just fine...0 -
That's it, job done.
Had planned to vote for a woman leader at the start but wavered big time.
YC
AB
LK
JC
and of course Caroline for deputy.0 -
Of course there will be a renegotiation and it will have to have sufficient meat for him to have any credibility in recommeding a yes vote in the referendum. Isn't that obvious?Speedy said:
So you still expect Cameron to do a renegotiation or to simply fluff around on stage with the French and claim victory?JohnO said:
No, just lefties like you and the kippers. That's why he's PM of a majority government and your lots, well....Speedy said:
That's not news, everyone expects the worst from Cameron not the best.isam said:Doublespeak deciphered: Andrew Lansley dares to reveal the truth about David Cameron's EU plan
"It is no secret that politicians use one sort of language in public and another when talking among themselves. For public consumption, everything a politician does is driven by a high-minded desire to do what is right. In private, they acknowledge that low calculation and partisan interest pervade the political process.
When Andrew Lansley was a Cabinet minister, from 2010 to 2014, he remembered how to choose his words carefully in public. Since retiring from the Commons in May, he seems to have forgotten the rules of political doublespeak. Talking to business leaders, he laid bare the tactics that he believes David Cameron will adopt in the run-up to the referendum on British membership in the European Union which Lansley anticipates will be held in September next year.
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/editorials/doublespeak-deciphered-andrew-lansley-dares-to-reveal-the-truth-about-david-camerons-eu-plan-10459808.html
But nothing he offers will satisfy you or the kippers, so most Conservatives don't regard either of you as a serious part of the equation.0 -
Miss Plato, those are really rather good. I may borrow them for Sir Edric [I try to work in Shakespeare and the odd political quote here and there].0
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I would take it with a shovelfull of salt. Lansley is just trying to tilt the playing field to the outers by his own dirty tricks.isam said:Doublespeak deciphered: Andrew Lansley dares to reveal the truth about David Cameron's EU plan
"It is no secret that politicians use one sort of language in public and another when talking among themselves. For public consumption, everything a politician does is driven by a high-minded desire to do what is right. In private, they acknowledge that low calculation and partisan interest pervade the political process.
When Andrew Lansley was a Cabinet minister, from 2010 to 2014, he remembered how to choose his words carefully in public. Since retiring from the Commons in May, he seems to have forgotten the rules of political doublespeak. Talking to business leaders, he laid bare the tactics that he believes David Cameron will adopt in the run-up to the referendum on British membership in the European Union which Lansley anticipates will be held in September next year.
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/editorials/doublespeak-deciphered-andrew-lansley-dares-to-reveal-the-truth-about-david-camerons-eu-plan-10459808.html0 -
As far as I can tell Corbyn has steered well clear of the Independence debate until today when he wrote a piece for the Herald:david_herdson said:
Why?Dair said:Corbyn would be in a much better electoral position if he backed Scottish Independence.
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/13609421.Corbyn__I_m_a_Socialist_not_a_Unionist/
Even in this article he's being a bit circumspect about his views - I've read snippets elsewhere that he is anti Home Rule and isn't a great fan of further devolution.
The first problem Corbyn is going to have to deal with in Scotland is to sort out SLAB which looks like it's about to break out into open civil war between Glasgow SLAB led by Neil Findlay and backed by the Unions and Edinburgh SLAB led by Kezia (advised by John McT and Blair McD), as they fight like ferrets in a sack for list seats.0 -
Well there seems to be a huge number of PB commentators who keep telling us that the best way to get Scottish Independence is to give England the vote. That would, in effect, give England the vote.david_herdson said:
Why?Dair said:Corbyn would be in a much better electoral position if he backed Scottish Independence.
Scottish Independence could then be established Czechoslovakia style, with dissolution following the No vote.0 -
It'd help him until the day before Independence happens. After that he'd be f***ed. The best Corbyn can hope for is to form an alliance with the SNP along the same line as the Tories did with the Lib Dems (wrt voting reform). String the SNP along but no actual independence (voting reform).isam said:
That would be backing Scottish Independence wouldn't it?Philip_Thompson said:
Why? Surely he's in a much better electoral position if he sides with and forms a coalition with his fellow whacky moonbat unilateral nuclear disarmament far-left allies the SNP? How does cutting out the leftwing whackjobs from Northern Britain help him reach a leftwing whackjob majority?Dair said:Corbyn would be in a much better electoral position if he backed Scottish Independence.
Both my machines are running faster under 10 than they were under 7 or 8, which is surprising. The problem I'm having is teething problems from the 7 to 10 transition.Plato said:Is it faster than v8? My laptop is very slow on W8
Philip_Thompson said:
Upgraded my Laptop (from Win 8) to Win 10 and its performed better. So I upgraded my PC (from Win 7) to Win 10 and I'm having multiple teething problems with it.Scott_P said:Apparently my Windows 10 "upgrade" (sic) is ready.
Am I?
If you're on 8 I'd say go for it, if you're on 7 I'd wait.0 -
Thanks for the advice. It's a Win 7 machine I have had for years. It's so old I nearly binned it last year when the fan died, but when I phoned my supplier to buy a new machine he gave the number of someone who sold me a new fan instead. Unlucky...
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http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/07/29/windows_10_sysadmin_says_average_joe_will_be_happy/
"Average Joe will be happy with it. So long as he hasn't used Windows 7"0 -
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ThanxPhilip_Thompson said:
It'd help him until the day before Independence happens. After that he'd be f***ed. The best Corbyn can hope for is to form an alliance with the SNP along the same line as the Tories did with the Lib Dems (wrt voting reform). String the SNP along but no actual independence (voting reform).isam said:
That would be backing Scottish Independence wouldn't it?Philip_Thompson said:
Why? Surely he's in a much better electoral position if he sides with and forms a coalition with his fellow whacky moonbat unilateral nuclear disarmament far-left allies the SNP? How does cutting out the leftwing whackjobs from Northern Britain help him reach a leftwing whackjob majority?Dair said:Corbyn would be in a much better electoral position if he backed Scottish Independence.
Both my machines are running faster under 10 than they were under 7 or 8, which is surprising. The problem I'm having is teething problems from the 7 to 10 transition.Plato said:Is it faster than v8? My laptop is very slow on W8
Philip_Thompson said:
Upgraded my Laptop (from Win 8) to Win 10 and its performed better. So I upgraded my PC (from Win 7) to Win 10 and I'm having multiple teething problems with it.Scott_P said:Apparently my Windows 10 "upgrade" (sic) is ready.
Am I?
If you're on 8 I'd say go for it, if you're on 7 I'd wait.0 -
Wait then. 7 has no problems that need fixing, let others deal with the teething problems.Scott_P said:Thanks for the advice. It's a Win 7 machine I have had for years. It's so old I nearly binned it last year when the fan died, but when I phoned my supplier to buy a new machine he gave the number of someone who sold me a new fan instead. Unlucky...
I wish I wasn't too impatient to follow my own advice now!0 -
Associate membership, ability to negotiate our own FTAs, supremacy of UK law over EU law, opt out of CAP and CFP, etc., would be enough for me to vote to remain in the EU. Your statement that nothing he offers will satisfy Kippers is therefore clearly incorrect.JohnO said:
Of course there will be a renegotiation and it will have to have sufficient meat for him to have any credibility in recommeding a yes vote in the referendum. Isn't that obvious?Speedy said:
So you still expect Cameron to do a renegotiation or to simply fluff around on stage with the French and claim victory?JohnO said:
No, just lefties like you and the kippers. That's why he's PM of a majority government and your lots, well....Speedy said:
That's not news, everyone expects the worst from Cameron not the best.isam said:Doublespeak deciphered: Andrew Lansley dares to reveal the truth about David Cameron's EU plan
"It is no secret that politicians use one sort of language in public and another when talking among themselves. For public consumption, everything a politician does is driven by a high-minded desire to do what is right. In private, they acknowledge that low calculation and partisan interest pervade the political process.
When Andrew Lansley was a Cabinet minister, from 2010 to 2014, he remembered how to choose his words carefully in public. Since retiring from the Commons in May, he seems to have forgotten the rules of political doublespeak. Talking to business leaders, he laid bare the tactics that he believes David Cameron will adopt in the run-up to the referendum on British membership in the European Union which Lansley anticipates will be held in September next year.
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/editorials/doublespeak-deciphered-andrew-lansley-dares-to-reveal-the-truth-about-david-camerons-eu-plan-10459808.html
But nothing he offers will satisfy you or the kippers, so most Conservatives don't regard either of you as a serious part of the equation.
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You missed out "and free shares in a green cheese lunar mining consortium for every kipper".MP_SE said:
Associate membership, ability to negotiate our own FTAs, supremacy of UK law over EU law, opt out of CAP and CFP, etc., would be enough for me to vote to remain in the EU. Your statement that nothing he offers will satisfy Kippers is therefore clearly incorrect.JohnO said:
Of course there will be a renegotiation and it will have to have sufficient meat for him to have any credibility in recommeding a yes vote in the referendum. Isn't that obvious?Speedy said:
So you still expect Cameron to do a renegotiation or to simply fluff around on stage with the French and claim victory?JohnO said:
No, just lefties like you and the kippers. That's why he's PM of a majority government and your lots, well....Speedy said:
That's not news, everyone expects the worst from Cameron not the best.isam said:Doublespeak deciphered: Andrew Lansley dares to reveal the truth about David Cameron's EU plan
"It is no secret that politicians use one sort of language in public and another when talking among themselves. For public consumption, everything a politician does is driven by a high-minded desire to do what is right. In private, they acknowledge that low calculation and partisan interest pervade the political process.
When Andrew Lansley was a Cabinet minister, from 2010 to 2014, he remembered how to choose his words carefully in public. Since retiring from the Commons in May, he seems to have forgotten the rules of political doublespeak. Talking to business leaders, he laid bare the tactics that he believes David Cameron will adopt in the run-up to the referendum on British membership in the European Union which Lansley anticipates will be held in September next year.
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/editorials/doublespeak-deciphered-andrew-lansley-dares-to-reveal-the-truth-about-david-camerons-eu-plan-10459808.html
But nothing he offers will satisfy you or the kippers, so most Conservatives don't regard either of you as a serious part of the equation.
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@rosschawkins: The Daily Record comes out for Corbyn http://t.co/hv8LNE6veF0
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Czechoslovakia split into two nations without a refeendumDair said:
Well there seems to be a huge number of PB commentators who keep telling us that the best way to get Scottish Independence is to give England the vote. That would, in effect, give England the vote.david_herdson said:
Why?Dair said:Corbyn would be in a much better electoral position if he backed Scottish Independence.
Scottish Independence could then be established Czechoslovakia style, with dissolution following the No vote.
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You can always try Linux if you're having problems with Win10.Philip_Thompson said:
Wait then. 7 has no problems that need fixing, let others deal with the teething problems.Scott_P said:Thanks for the advice. It's a Win 7 machine I have had for years. It's so old I nearly binned it last year when the fan died, but when I phoned my supplier to buy a new machine he gave the number of someone who sold me a new fan instead. Unlucky...
I wish I wasn't too impatient to follow my own advice now!
That was the solution for many who had the misfortune of having Win8, it was either Linux or having to wait for Microsoft to replace it with Win9, but it was so bad Microsoft rushed Win8.1 as a stop gap.0 -
Good podcast so far. I have been covering my Burnham position and am currently:
JC +18
AB +8
YC +400 -
Mr. Smithson, it was a country for less than a century. Was there a referendum on separation which was lost beforehand?0
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How many million have you laid Liz for ;p ?Tissue_Price said:Good podcast so far. I have been covering my Burnham position and am currently:
JC +18
AB +8
YC +400 -
I would rather have a flying pig.antifrank said:
You missed out "and free shares in a green cheese lunar mining consortium for every kipper".MP_SE said:
Associate membership, ability to negotiate our own FTAs, supremacy of UK law over EU law, opt out of CAP and CFP, etc., would be enough for me to vote to remain in the EU. Your statement that nothing he offers will satisfy Kippers is therefore clearly incorrect.JohnO said:
Of course there will be a renegotiation and it will have to have sufficient meat for him to have any credibility in recommeding a yes vote in the referendum. Isn't that obvious?Speedy said:
So you still expect Cameron to do a renegotiation or to simply fluff around on stage with the French and claim victory?JohnO said:
No, just lefties like you and the kippers. That's why he's PM of a majority government and your lots, well....Speedy said:
That's not news, everyone expects the worst from Cameron not the best.isam said:Doublespeak deciphered: Andrew Lansley dares to reveal the truth about David Cameron's EU plan
"It is no secret that politicians use one sort of language in public and another when talking among themselves. For public consumption, everything a politician does is driven by a high-minded desire to do what is right. In private, they acknowledge that low calculation and partisan interest pervade the political process.
When Andrew Lansley was a Cabinet minister, from 2010 to 2014, he remembered how to choose his words carefully in public. Since retiring from the Commons in May, he seems to have forgotten the rules of political doublespeak. Talking to business leaders, he laid bare the tactics that he believes David Cameron will adopt in the run-up to the referendum on British membership in the European Union which Lansley anticipates will be held in September next year.
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/editorials/doublespeak-deciphered-andrew-lansley-dares-to-reveal-the-truth-about-david-camerons-eu-plan-10459808.html
But nothing he offers will satisfy you or the kippers, so most Conservatives don't regard either of you as a serious part of the equation.
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I think that Microsoft have had real problems working a viable strategy for it's core OS since Win 95, to an extent because it was, pretty much, exactly what is needed for a multitasking PC based OS and by the time 98 perfected an initially buggy product, they didn't really have anywhere to go.Speedy said:http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/07/29/windows_10_sysadmin_says_average_joe_will_be_happy/
"Average Joe will be happy with it. So long as he hasn't used Windows 7"
Going from Win95 -> Win98 -> WinXP -> Win7 there isn't any particular difference to the look and feel and certainly from a user perspective, how it works.
Every time it has tried to diverge from the model established by WIn 95 it has failed horrifically, Windows ME, Windows Vista and Win 8 are all dead ends. Unfortunately Win 10 is built more on Win 8 than Win 7 with the added handicap of a revenue model built on "add ons" which i don't see becoming popular any time soon for an OS.
Win8 and the whole idea that the USP of a PC (multitasking) could be thrown out to be replaced with a "one application at a time" environment as you get on a tablet or phone was utterly idiotic and Monkey Boy deserved his firing (at least he has his billions to fall back on).
Aren't the majority of Enterprise users still using XP?0 -
It bemuses me why there is so much mystery about why Windows skipped Win9. The reason is nothing to do with marking a distance from Win8 as the BBC keeps reporting. Win9 technically would cause havoc with many programs as Win9x is decoded as meaning Windows 95 or Windows 98.Speedy said:
You can always try Linux if you're having problems with Win10.Philip_Thompson said:
Wait then. 7 has no problems that need fixing, let others deal with the teething problems.Scott_P said:Thanks for the advice. It's a Win 7 machine I have had for years. It's so old I nearly binned it last year when the fan died, but when I phoned my supplier to buy a new machine he gave the number of someone who sold me a new fan instead. Unlucky...
I wish I wasn't too impatient to follow my own advice now!
That was the solution for many who had the misfortune of having Win8, it was either Linux or having to wait for Microsoft to replace it with Win9, but it was so bad Microsoft rushed Win8.1 as a stop gap.
There are multiple legacy programs out there that are set not to work if the OS contains the name "Win 9" and undoing that would be far worse than the Millenium Bug was mooted as being.0 -
She's -14, like the fieldPulpstar said:
How many million have you laid Liz for ;p ?Tissue_Price said:Good podcast so far. I have been covering my Burnham position and am currently:
JC +18
AB +8
YC +400 -
I think there was a referendum that was against separation, but politicians ignored it and went ahead anyway for different reasons, the Czech ones wanted to stop economic aid to the Slovaks, and the Slovak ones wanted their own authoritarian state.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Smithson, it was a country for less than a century. Was there a referendum on separation which was lost beforehand?
Very similar to the Tory-SNP axis.0 -
Mr. Speedy, cheers, I didn't know that.0
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True, but most people still believed there was going to be a Windows 9, but Windows 8 was such a disaster that many thought that Microsoft had ditched it's update for something else. Rushing in Windows 8.1 reaffirmed that impression.Philip_Thompson said:
It bemuses me why there is so much mystery about why Windows skipped Win9. The reason is nothing to do with marking a distance from Win8 as the BBC keeps reporting. Win9 technically would cause havoc with many programs as Win9x is decoded as meaning Windows 95 or Windows 98.Speedy said:
You can always try Linux if you're having problems with Win10.Philip_Thompson said:
Wait then. 7 has no problems that need fixing, let others deal with the teething problems.Scott_P said:Thanks for the advice. It's a Win 7 machine I have had for years. It's so old I nearly binned it last year when the fan died, but when I phoned my supplier to buy a new machine he gave the number of someone who sold me a new fan instead. Unlucky...
I wish I wasn't too impatient to follow my own advice now!
That was the solution for many who had the misfortune of having Win8, it was either Linux or having to wait for Microsoft to replace it with Win9, but it was so bad Microsoft rushed Win8.1 as a stop gap.
There are multiple legacy programs out there that are set not to work if the OS contains the name "Win 9" and undoing that would be far worse than the Millenium Bug was mooted as being.0 -
The split was done without a second referendum. There had already been one which said No.MikeSmithson said:
Czechoslovakia split into two nations without a refeendumDair said:
Well there seems to be a huge number of PB commentators who keep telling us that the best way to get Scottish Independence is to give England the vote. That would, in effect, give England the vote.david_herdson said:
Why?Dair said:Corbyn would be in a much better electoral position if he backed Scottish Independence.
Scottish Independence could then be established Czechoslovakia style, with dissolution following the No vote.0 -
I would agree a bit with this, but remember, windows 10 is *much* quicker on older hardware than windows 7.Speedy said:
If you have Windows 8, go for it.Scott_P said:Apparently my Windows 10 "upgrade" (sic) is ready.
Am I?
If you have Windows 7, then no.
There is a reason why Windows 9 doesn't exist.
I had an oldlaptop the other day originally came with vista, but had a free upgrade to windows 7 (old core 2 duo machine with 2gb of ram)
I doubled up the memory, upgraded to windows 10. Once windows 10 has activated on a machine thats the machine sorted for windows 10 forever. This means you can just do a format and reinstall from the image/usb you download from microsoft.
The new start menu is a menu designed by people who know you like the start menu, but dont like it themselves so have decided to make it really crappy in the hope you dont use it.
One of the big improvements over 8, is that it separates out the tablet and mouse/keyboard GUI. No more accidental swipes ending up in some full screen programme which completely takes you away from your desktop.
So while i agree above, the interface changes from w7 to w10 are not really worth it, for 8 to 10 definitely... But, your machine will run quicker than it ever has if you put 10 on it.
0 -
I quite like Windows 10. My other half tried to move from Windows 7 to Windows 10 on his laptop but it cut off wifi access so he moved back.0
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How would I know which Windows I am using?!0
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At least we two have one common view.Dair said:
I think that Microsoft have had real problems working a viable strategy for it's core OS since Win 95, to an extent because it was, pretty much, exactly what is needed for a multitasking PC based OS and by the time 98 perfected an initially buggy product, they didn't really have anywhere to go.Speedy said:http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/07/29/windows_10_sysadmin_says_average_joe_will_be_happy/
"Average Joe will be happy with it. So long as he hasn't used Windows 7"
Going from Win95 -> Win98 -> WinXP -> Win7 there isn't any particular difference to the look and feel and certainly from a user perspective, how it works.
Every time it has tried to diverge from the model established by WIn 95 it has failed horrifically, Windows ME, Windows Vista and Win 8 are all dead ends. Unfortunately Win 10 is built more on Win 8 than Win 7 with the added handicap of a revenue model built on "add ons" which i don't see becoming popular any time soon for an OS.
Win8 and the whole idea that the USP of a PC (multitasking) could be thrown out to be replaced with a "one application at a time" environment as you get on a tablet or phone was utterly idiotic and Monkey Boy deserved his firing (at least he has his billions to fall back on).
Aren't the majority of Enterprise users still using XP?
Even if you love Salmond and I loath Salmond, we both have the same opinion about Microsoft (and Jim Murphy).
0 -
Telegraph front page says Harman attempt's to call off Labour contest0
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Mr. Notme, that sounds like designing the Xbone so the user interface is optimised for the Kinect and clunky without it.
In internet parlance - a dick move.0 -
If you didn't download it, it isn't Windows 10.isam said:How would I know which Windows I am using?!
If you're not screaming at the computer, it isn't Windows 8.
0 -
Matt's effort tonight is even more sublime than last night's.0
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Umm.notme said:
I would agree a bit with this, but remember, windows 10 is *much* quicker on older hardware than windows 7.Speedy said:
If you have Windows 8, go for it.Scott_P said:Apparently my Windows 10 "upgrade" (sic) is ready.
Am I?
If you have Windows 7, then no.
There is a reason why Windows 9 doesn't exist.
I had an oldlaptop the other day originally came with vista, but had a free upgrade to windows 7 (old core 2 duo machine with 2gb of ram)
I doubled up the memory, upgraded to windows 10. Once windows 10 has activated on a machine thats the machine sorted for windows 10 forever. This means you can just do a format and reinstall from the image/usb you download from microsoft.
The new start menu is a menu designed by people who know you like the start menu, but dont like it themselves so have decided to make it really crappy in the hope you dont use it.
One of the big improvements over 8, is that it separates out the tablet and mouse/keyboard GUI. No more accidental swipes ending up in some full screen programme which completely takes you away from your desktop.
So while i agree above, the interface changes from w7 to w10 are not really worth it, for 8 to 10 definitely... But, your machine will run quicker than it ever has if you put 10 on it.
You doubled the RAM.
Are you *certain* that it's running faster because of Win10?0 -
Was it Mandelson with a blonde wig?TheScreamingEagles said:Telegraph front page says Harman attempt's to call off Labour contest
0 -
It is fabantifrank said:Matt's effort tonight is even more sublime than last night's.
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/03411/190815-MATT-WEB_3411869a.jpg
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What would be sufficient meat for you to count it as a credible yes recommendation, out of interest?JohnO said:
Of course there will be a renegotiation and it will have to have sufficient meat for him to have any credibility in recommeding a yes vote in the referendum. Isn't that obvious?Speedy said:
So you still expect Cameron to do a renegotiation or to simply fluff around on stage with the French and claim victory?JohnO said:
No, just lefties like you and the kippers. That's why he's PM of a majority government and your lots, well....Speedy said:
That's not news, everyone expects the worst from Cameron not the best.isam said:Doublespeak deciphered: Andrew Lansley dares to reveal the truth about David Cameron's EU plan
"It is no secret that politicians use one sort of language in public and another when talking among themselves. For public consumption, everything a politician does is driven by a high-minded desire to do what is right. In private, they acknowledge that low calculation and partisan interest pervade the political process.
When Andrew Lansley was a Cabinet minister, from 2010 to 2014, he remembered how to choose his words carefully in public. Since retiring from the Commons in May, he seems to have forgotten the rules of political doublespeak. Talking to business leaders, he laid bare the tactics that he believes David Cameron will adopt in the run-up to the referendum on British membership in the European Union which Lansley anticipates will be held in September next year.
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/editorials/doublespeak-deciphered-andrew-lansley-dares-to-reveal-the-truth-about-david-camerons-eu-plan-10459808.html
But nothing he offers will satisfy you or the kippers, so most Conservatives don't regard either of you as a serious part of the equation.0 -
0
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Since PB is blessed with much better lawyers than me, in what sense could you judicially review that decision? Is the Labour party a public authority for these purposes?Speedy said:0 -
Well, obviously none of this will happen, and to be fair to Cameron, he's never promised it will happen.antifrank said:
You missed out "and free shares in a green cheese lunar mining consortium for every kipper".MP_SE said:
Associate membership, ability to negotiate our own FTAs, supremacy of UK law over EU law, opt out of CAP and CFP, etc., would be enough for me to vote to remain in the EU. Your statement that nothing he offers will satisfy Kippers is therefore clearly incorrect.JohnO said:
Of course there will be a renegotiation and it will have to have sufficient meat for him to have any credibility in recommeding a yes vote in the referendum. Isn't that obvious?Speedy said:
So you still expect Cameron to do a renegotiation or to simply fluff around on stage with the French and claim victory?JohnO said:
No, just lefties like you and the kippers. That's why he's PM of a majority government and your lots, well....Speedy said:
That's not news, everyone expects the worst from Cameron not the best.isam said:Doublespeak deciphered: Andrew Lansley dares to reveal the truth about David Cameron's EU plan
"It is no secret that politicians use one sort of language in public and another when talking among themselves. For public consumption, everything a politician does is driven by a high-minded desire to do what is right. In private, they acknowledge that low calculation and partisan interest pervade the political process.
When Andrew Lansley was a Cabinet minister, from 2010 to 2014, he remembered how to choose his words carefully in public. Since retiring from the Commons in May, he seems to have forgotten the rules of political doublespeak. Talking to business leaders, he laid bare the tactics that he believes David Cameron will adopt in the run-up to the referendum on British membership in the European Union which Lansley anticipates will be held in September next year.
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/editorials/doublespeak-deciphered-andrew-lansley-dares-to-reveal-the-truth-about-david-camerons-eu-plan-10459808.html
But nothing he offers will satisfy you or the kippers, so most Conservatives don't regard either of you as a serious part of the equation.
So, it's a choice between the current status quo + future closer union, or rejection + an uncertain future.0 -
Test0
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Dair said:
I think that Microsoft have had real problems working a viable strategy for it's core OS since Win 95, to an extent because it was, pretty much, exactly what is needed for a multitasking PC based OS and by the time 98 perfected an initially buggy product, they didn't really have anywhere to go.Speedy said:http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/07/29/windows_10_sysadmin_says_average_joe_will_be_happy/
"Average Joe will be happy with it. So long as he hasn't used Windows 7"
Going from Win95 -> Win98 -> WinXP -> Win7 there isn't any particular difference to the look and feel and certainly from a user perspective, how it works.
Every time it has tried to diverge from the model established by WIn 95 it has failed horrifically, Windows ME, Windows Vista and Win 8 are all dead ends. Unfortunately Win 10 is built more on Win 8 than Win 7 with the added handicap of a revenue model built on "add ons" which i don't see becoming popular any time soon for an OS.
Win8 and the whole idea that the USP of a PC (multitasking) could be thrown out to be replaced with a "one application at a time" environment as you get on a tablet or phone was utterly idiotic and Monkey Boy deserved his firing (at least he has his billions to fall back on).
Aren't the majority of Enterprise users still using XP?
You are only looking at it from the user perspective, there are enormous differences between how they operate, and its only because you have got used to the features as they've developed, you havent noticed them. If you go back to windows 95/98 you might be quite surprised .
Windows XP was reskin of windows 2k. It is massively more stable than any if the 9x operating system, it brought 'enterprise' level stability to home users. If you farted too loudly and didnt close the door windows 98 would freeze.
Think of all those things you do with ease. Taking pictures off a camera, adding music to a device, watching video on the internet, the internet itself!!
It is possible to say that vista was difficult operating system, they over reached, but by the time they were ready with windows 7, they perfected everything they got wrong with vista.
Windows 8 was just a bag of spanners, but mainly because of design decisions. If MS had made the design decision to keep a traditional start menu, and disable 'full screen apps' for standard users it would have been lapped up.
Windows 8 contains some first rate auto backup software, fast as anything on older machines, finally MS managed to get standby right. But alas the interface was so screwed up.
The look of horror on an elderly persons face when they go to start and get lots of tiles. When they accidentally swipe to the side and they go into full screen app. When they try to play solitaire and get inundated with XBOX trophies.
They pack it away and get the old one out, or just buy an ipad.0 -
I'm not a Kipper, but that all sounds great. Realistically though, I would be happy with a double QMV system for non-Eurozone members, a veto over financial regulation, an end to free movement for non-workers and criminals, an EU budget cap, and a commitment to passing the US free trade deal.MP_SE said:
Associate membership, ability to negotiate our own FTAs, supremacy of UK law over EU law, opt out of CAP and CFP, etc., would be enough for me to vote to remain in the EU. Your statement that nothing he offers will satisfy Kippers is therefore clearly incorrect.JohnO said:
Of course there will be a renegotiation and it will have to have sufficient meat for him to have any credibility in recommeding a yes vote in the referendum. Isn't that obvious?Speedy said:
So you still expect Cameron to do a renegotiation or to simply fluff around on stage with the French and claim victory?JohnO said:
No, just lefties like you and the kippers. That's why he's PM of a majority government and your lots, well....Speedy said:
That's not news, everyone expects the worst from Cameron not the best.isam said:Doublespeak deciphered: Andrew Lansley dares to reveal the truth about David Cameron's EU plan
"It is no secret that politicians use one sort of language in public and another when talking among themselves. For public consumption, everything a politician does is driven by a high-minded desire to do what is right. In private, they acknowledge that low calculation and partisan interest pervade the political process.
When Andrew Lansley was a Cabinet minister, from 2010 to 2014, he remembered how to choose his words carefully in public. Since retiring from the Commons in May, he seems to have forgotten the rules of political doublespeak. Talking to business leaders, he laid bare the tactics that he believes David Cameron will adopt in the run-up to the referendum on British membership in the European Union which Lansley anticipates will be held in September next year.
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/editorials/doublespeak-deciphered-andrew-lansley-dares-to-reveal-the-truth-about-david-camerons-eu-plan-10459808.html
But nothing he offers will satisfy you or the kippers, so most Conservatives don't regard either of you as a serious part of the equation.0 -
Appallingly misleading apostrophe and letter 's' misplacementTheScreamingEagles said:Telegraph front page says Harman attempt's to call off Labour contest
0 -
Of course the machine will run substantially faster with the memory anyway, but i added the memory after i installed win 10. I have enough experience to know what to expect on an old core2duo machine from 2007. Windows 10, while 'shit of a stick' might be exaggerating, it was exceptionally usable and would not feel second rate in anyway.Dair said:
Umm.notme said:
I would agree a bit with this, but remember, windows 10 is *much* quicker on older hardware than windows 7.Speedy said:
If you have Windows 8, go for it.Scott_P said:Apparently my Windows 10 "upgrade" (sic) is ready.
Am I?
If you have Windows 7, then no.
There is a reason why Windows 9 doesn't exist.
I had an oldlaptop the other day originally came with vista, but had a free upgrade to windows 7 (old core 2 duo machine with 2gb of ram)
I doubled up the memory, upgraded to windows 10. Once windows 10 has activated on a machine thats the machine sorted for windows 10 forever. This means you can just do a format and reinstall from the image/usb you download from microsoft.
The new start menu is a menu designed by people who know you like the start menu, but dont like it themselves so have decided to make it really crappy in the hope you dont use it.
One of the big improvements over 8, is that it separates out the tablet and mouse/keyboard GUI. No more accidental swipes ending up in some full screen programme which completely takes you away from your desktop.
So while i agree above, the interface changes from w7 to w10 are not really worth it, for 8 to 10 definitely... But, your machine will run quicker than it ever has if you put 10 on it.
You doubled the RAM.
Are you *certain* that it's running faster because of Win10?
0 -
+1notme said:
You are only looking at it from the user perspective, there are enormous differences between how they operate, and its only because you have got used to the features as they've developed, you havent noticed them. If you go back to windows 95/98 you might be quite surprised .
Windows XP was reskin of windows 2k. It is massively more stable than any if the 9x operating system, it brought 'enterprise' level stability to home users. If you farted too loudly and didnt close the door windows 98 would freeze.
Think of all those things you do with ease. Taking pictures off a camera, adding music to a device, watching video on the internet, the internet itself!!
It is possible to say that vista was difficult operating system, they over reached, but by the time they were ready with windows 7, they perfected everything they got wrong with vista.
Windows 8 was just a bag of spanners, but mainly because of design decisions. If MS had made the design decision to keep a traditional start menu, and disable 'full screen apps' for standard users it would have been lapped up.
Windows 8 contains some first rate auto backup software, fast as anything on older machines, finally MS managed to get standby right. But alas the interface was so screwed up.
The look of horror on an elderly persons face when they go to start and get lots of tiles. When they accidentally swipe to the side and they go into full screen app. When they try to play solitaire and get inundated with XBOX trophies.
They pack it away and get the old one out, or just buy an ipad.
There's the underlying core tech, and then the UI shell that is placed on top. Win 7, 8 and 10 are (I think) more or less the same core tech family, with very different UI's.
Mind you, I still miss OS/2 Warp and Windows NT.
I'd rather forget 3/3.1 - they were, with hindsight, absolutely terrible kludges that were only popular because they were compatible with, but so much better than, DOS.0 -
Chinese school beats British school in the final episode of the BBC2 experiment of teaching styles at Bohunt School0
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LIAMT knows far more about constitutional and administrative law than I do. But, I'd have thought that any attempt to challenge the outcome of the leadership election would be based upon contractual law, rather than judicial review.TheWhiteRabbit said:
Since PB is blessed with much better lawyers than me, in what sense could you judicially review that decision? Is the Labour party a public authority for these purposes?Speedy said:
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@tnewtondunn: EXCL: Anti-semitic, anti-gay extremist who called UK troops’ murders "victory" invited to Parliament by Jeremy Corbyn http://t.co/H2CR8gtLO50
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Yawn...Scott_P said:@tnewtondunn: EXCL: Anti-semitic, anti-gay extremist who called UK troops’ murders "victory" invited to Parliament by Jeremy Corbyn http://t.co/H2CR8gtLO5
Let me know when they find proof that Hitler was his dad...0 -
Please can we keep those stories until he is leader? Thanks!Scott_P said:@tnewtondunn: EXCL: Anti-semitic, anti-gay extremist who called UK troops’ murders "victory" invited to Parliament by Jeremy Corbyn http://t.co/H2CR8gtLO5
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Every poll in England and Wales has shown a clear majority want to keep Scotland in the UKDair said:
Well there seems to be a huge number of PB commentators who keep telling us that the best way to get Scottish Independence is to give England the vote. That would, in effect, give England the vote.david_herdson said:
Why?Dair said:Corbyn would be in a much better electoral position if he backed Scottish Independence.
Scottish Independence could then be established Czechoslovakia style, with dissolution following the No vote.
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Where's that, if you don't mind me asking? (And if you mention the word "cloud", then I ain't going there!)notme said:
Windows 8 contains some first rate auto backup software....
I have Windows 8.1 on my machine, and I've set it up just as I want it. No need for Windows 10 yet.
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It's not misleading, just totally wrong. I'm sure TSE was just in an excitable mood when he composed the message!isam said:
Appallingly misleading apostrophe and letter 's' misplacementTheScreamingEagles said:Telegraph front page says Harman attempt's to call off Labour contest
0 -
Telegraph story up now
Ms Harman and her team have told officials that they believe up to one fifth of the 120,000 people who paid £3 to vote in the election could be so-called “entryists” trying to distort the result to favour Jeremy Corbyn, the hard-left candidate.
One source said: "There was a conversation a couple of weeks ago but they decided to proceed."
Lord Falconer, the former Lord Chancellor, has now quit the Burnham campaign to advise the Labour party full time on the running of the contest.
http://bit.ly/1URpYRU0 -
I ditched Windows PC and laptops about a year ago. I made do with a Galaxy 2 Tab and my phone, and to be honest, haven't missed Windows at all. I now use a Chromebook, and it's superb. Fast start up and no laggy freezing unlike my crappy Windows machines. Of course, if you're a serious gamer, or want to do detailed photo or video editing, then you're a little limited, but for everyday use, it suits me down to the ground.0
