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You just do not get it and how arrogant to say to me 'I need I want'matt said:
Belatedly, I haven’t lived in London since 2000. I grew up in a (very) rural county, I live in one now. I walk, I cycle, I drive - I have the scars, literally, from cycling in London.Big_G_NorthWales said:I see my post on climate change on the last thread and the responses has become a topic of conversation on this thread.
While I thought the response to my post from Matt was absurd and could only come from a Londoner the discussion has broadened out somewhat and is very interesting
The wide scale acceptance outside the Metropolitan areas requires a huge price fall and massive increase in the range. Also charging needs to be as quick as filling the tank now.
In addition someone has going to have to explain how the Treasury replaces the huge income from fuel duty and the cost and time scale when 100% EV are on our roads when they presently account for 2%
At least some of the comments I’ve seen here are similar to those that one sees from people of my mother’s generation - EVs are good for other people and I’m not going to compromise in my lifestyle - I need, I want.The evidence around pollution near major roads and it’s effects on human health means that, increasingly internal combustion engines will be seen as a blight not worth suffering. That’s not withstanding a moral argument about pollution, behaviour and its effect on future generations.
I have limited mobility, cannot walk distance and certainly cannot cycle
Do you not think I would love to walk and ride my bike but life changes.
I bought a near new 520d BMW two years ago and pay £30 road tax due to its efficiency and get over 55 mpg
I sometimes drive to collect my grandchildren or my daughter, a 25 mile round trip, my wife and I visit our family in the North of Scotland (900 mile return trip) twice a year, I have to go to Heathrow in two weeks (500 mile round trip) to collect my eldest son coming in from Vancouver. No EV gives met that flexibility
If I attempted to trade in my BMW for an EV it would not be financially viable.
I have solar panels, heavily insulated our house, double glazed, recycle to the point we are not bothered by Conwy's once every 4 weekly bin collection
As a pensioner of 75 and my wife nearly 80 having worked hard all our life why on earth do you think we think we are entitled.
Provide an EV at a price and range and good trade in deal of course I would be interested but that is not going to happen0 -
Isn't it more "Other people might buy new cars, but I don't. When Model 3s start cropping up on Autotrader for 15k I might consider an EV"JosiasJessop said:
It's not a case of "EVs are good for other people and I’m not going to compromise in my lifestyle", but: "EVs are good, but only other people can afford them, and my 'lifestyle' is actually how I effing well get into work. It's a necessity."
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Building regs in 1986 dropped the requirement for homes to be built with space to dry clothes as the assumption was that tumble dryers would do it.Cyclefree said:
I think we could do a lot more to be "green".murali_s said:Why do the right-wingers think that the anthropogenic forcing of the climate cannot be reduced or even halted. Just curious to know as this is probably the biggest crisis facing humanity.
- And washing lines instead of tumble dryers. They appear to have vanished and yet they are free and dry washing far better than expensive dryers.
This has since been added back in which is why my new home comes with a large internal utility room as well as a wirlygig for the garden.0 -
The poll above is likely to be near the resultjustin124 said:
I will still be surprised if the SNP exceed 35% at the next Westminster election. Labour could well be at circa 30%.HYUFD said:
SNP down 5% on 2016 should be enough to give Ruth Davidson rather than Patrick Harvie the balance of powerfelix said:SNP 41% (-1)
CON 26% (+2)
LAB 24% (+1)
LD 7% (-1)
Survation Scotland.
However, labour are tanking in Scotland and may struggle to get 20%.0 -
And I guess @SeanT partakes of a Rich Tea biscuit (or so he tells us repeatedly)Morris_Dancer said:Mr. D, that was a fancy calculating machine. The Curta can do divisions too, also by successive subtraction, but you have to do it by hand.
Edited extra bit: Mr. Meeks, surely those in favour of the Treaty of Rome approve of a garibaldi?
Edited extra bit 2: corrected some typos etc.0 -
You mentioned bottle water previously in a developing country context, and might be interested in these:Beverley_C said:
"For a country that calls itself the "Land of the Fee" the US has a myriad of petty regulations."rpjs said:
For aesthetic reasons mostly. We're not allowed to fence or hedge in our property as well.Foxy said:
Why?rpjs said:
It's illegal to put your clothes out to dry in many, if not most places, in the US, including where I live.geoffw said:
In 1994 Palo Alto celebrated its centenary and the local rag explained to readers what life was like 100 years ago. One of the astonishing examples of pioneer life was that families hung out their washing on lines to dry.Cyclefree said:
. . .- And washing lines instead of tumble dryers. They appear to have vanished and yet they are free and dry washing far better than expensive dryers.murali_s said:Why do the right-wingers think that the anthropogenic forcing of the climate cannot be reduced or even halted. Just curious to know as this is probably the biggest crisis facing humanity.
. . .
For a country that calls itself the "Land of the Free" the US has a myriad of petty regulations.
I fixed that for you
http://www.safewaternow.org/?page_id=31
Ceramic filters are great. I use one when in Malawi.0 -
There is a second Survation poll carried out for the SNP by phone 3rd - 5th October.The detailed results were - SNP 37.4% Con 27.7% Lab 26.4% LibDem 6.9%
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Nothing can be known with that degree of certainty about a unique system as complex as the earth. There is a lot we don't know with that degree of certainty about the human body, despite the fact that we have literally billions of near-identical examples to study. What has happened is that Big Science has decided that AGW is a thing, and that a statement of the case couched with proper scientific caution would have no chance of winning over the kind of extremely stupid and poorly educated people like Trump, and those who vote for Trump. They have therefore created a cartoon science version of the facts specifically tailored for the extremely stupid and poorly educated. You must draw your own conclusions from the fact that you have uncritically bought into it.murali_s said:
Look here, AGW is a fact. The Earth is warming and warming alarmingly. The CO2 hypothesis is the only one that holds water. Pretty much everyone with half a brain buys into it. Yes, there is uncertainty to the rate of warming and with these things there is unlikely to be a linear projection as the human fingerprint is superimposed on the natural variability of the climate.
The deniers of which there are only a handful these days cannot come up with a sound scientific explanation why the globe has warmed over the last 150 years.
2019 will most likely to another top 3 year - no surprises there I guess.
You link in a mickey-mouse website, I'll give you a link to a world acclaimed institution. Go educate yourself - you might learn something my friend.
https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/climate-guide0 -
Anything that reduces single-use bottles is goodFoxy said:
You mentioned bottle water previously in a developing country context, and might be interested in these:Beverley_C said:
"For a country that calls itself the "Land of the Fee" the US has a myriad of petty regulations."rpjs said:
For aesthetic reasons mostly. We're not allowed to fence or hedge in our property as well.Foxy said:
Why?rpjs said:
It's illegal to put your clothes out to dry in many, if not most places, in the US, including where I live.geoffw said:
In 1994 Palo Alto celebrated its centenary and the local rag explained to readers what life was like 100 years ago. One of the astonishing examples of pioneer life was that families hung out their washing on lines to dry.Cyclefree said:
. . .- And washing lines instead of tumble dryers. They appear to have vanished and yet they are free and dry washing far better than expensive dryers.murali_s said:Why do the right-wingers think that the anthropogenic forcing of the climate cannot be reduced or even halted. Just curious to know as this is probably the biggest crisis facing humanity.
. . .
For a country that calls itself the "Land of the Free" the US has a myriad of petty regulations.
I fixed that for you
http://www.safewaternow.org/?page_id=31
Ceramic filters are great. I use one when in Malawi.
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The New York Times is live-reporting a poll of Texas which started RIGHT NOW.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/upshot/elections-poll-txsen-2.html
(I know, I need to get a life.)0 -
How often have you bought a new car? Are you really comparing like-with-like?JosiasJessop said:That's wrong.
I ink the vast majority of people can see the advantage of EVs - an exception IME being out-and-out petrolheads who like the smell of petrol and grease.
It's not a case of "EVs are good for other people and I’m not going to compromise in my lifestyle", but: "EVs are good, but only other people can afford them, and my 'lifestyle' is actually how I effing well get into work. It's a necessity."
A Tesla Model 3 with the performance package is about £10k less than a BMW M3 - and it will outperform it, and be a much more practical family car. EVs are coming from the top down.
One other thing: you mentioned battery progress as being glacial. And compared to (say) hard disk drive capacity, or semiconductors, it is. But it's also moving at a much, much faster pace than the internal combustion engine. My original Tesla Roadster dates back to 2011. It had a rated range of 220 miles, but (really) would do about 160-180. Just five years later, Tesla will swap that pack out for a new one with a range of 340 miles. So, a pack with the same volume, weight and price as the original now has a capacity more than 40% greater*. That's pretty quick in the world of engineering.
If we were to see another 40% improvement in the next five years, and perhaps 25% in the five after that, then - for new cars - it's hard not see to the majority of the market being electric.
* The rated KWh was 40% more, but apparently the management of the battery is better, and so the range is increased by more than the capacity. Apparently.0 -
Or a Ginger Nut...Charles said:
And I guess @SeanT partakes of a Rich Tea biscuit (or so he tells us repeatedly)Morris_Dancer said:Mr. D, that was a fancy calculating machine. The Curta can do divisions too, also by successive subtraction, but you have to do it by hand.
Edited extra bit: Mr. Meeks, surely those in favour of the Treaty of Rome approve of a garibaldi?
Edited extra bit 2: corrected some typos etc.0 -
I thought I'd seen it all in the polling world...Quincel said:The New York Times is live-reporting a poll of Texas which started RIGHT NOW.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/upshot/elections-poll-txsen-2.html
(I know, I need to get a life.)0 -
On topic, the New York Times is live polling a bunch of congressional districts (and states). And their findings are nowhere near as Democrat friendly as the Washington Post. (See: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/upshot/elections-polls.html)
They have the Democrats doing poorly in NY1 (which they only lost in 2014), NC13, Penn16 and Illinois 14 - all of which they should hope to win in 2018.
However, where they have them doing much better than the national polls would suggest in affluent suburbs, and in particular affluent white suburbs like California 45 & 49, and Kansas 3. Places hit by tariffs on Agriculture also seem to have swung very blue: the Dems are leading 52-37 in Iowa 1.0 -
No need for them here! bottled water is a marker of the craziness of our consumer culture. Nearly as absurd as oxygen bars.Beverley_C said:
Anything that reduces single-use bottles is goodFoxy said:
You mentioned bottle water previously in a developing country context, and might be interested in these:Beverley_C said:
"For a country that calls itself the "Land of the Fee" the US has a myriad of petty regulations."rpjs said:
For aesthetic reasons mostly. We're not allowed to fence or hedge in our property as well.Foxy said:
Why?rpjs said:
It's illegal to put your clothes out to dry in many, if not most places, in the US, including where I live.geoffw said:
In 1994 Palo Alto celebrated its centenary and the local rag explained to readers what life was like 100 years ago. One of the astonishing examples of pioneer life was that families hung out their washing on lines to dry.Cyclefree said:
. . .- And washing lines instead of tumble dryers. They appear to have vanished and yet they are free and dry washing far better than expensive dryers.murali_s said:Why do the right-wingers think that the anthropogenic forcing of the climate cannot be reduced or even halted. Just curious to know as this is probably the biggest crisis facing humanity.
. . .
For a country that calls itself the "Land of the Free" the US has a myriad of petty regulations.
I fixed that for you
http://www.safewaternow.org/?page_id=31
Ceramic filters are great. I use one when in Malawi.
I don't think economic growth is inevitably polluting or planet destroying. Much economic growth is generated virtually. Streaming on Spotify is less polluting than buying CDs surely?
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Pulpstar said:
Isn't it more "Other people might buy new cars, but I don't. When Model 3s start cropping up on Autotrader for 15k I might consider an EV"JosiasJessop said:
It's not a case of "EVs are good for other people and I’m not going to compromise in my lifestyle", but: "EVs are good, but only other people can afford them, and my 'lifestyle' is actually how I effing well get into work. It's a necessity."
Mrs J needs a new car, for a seventy minute drive into work and the same back every day - her 12-year old Honda Jazz is good, but is getting slightly unreliable and is not good on long journeys (I should know, I drove it for 12 hours up to Durness in order to break my arm).
I'm trying to talk her into buying a new car - the first one either of us will have bought. But cars are a tool for us - something that allows us to do what we need to do - and therefore we cannot justify spending too much. We're lucky enough to be able to afford something more expensive, but as we're not car fans we cannot justify spending too much.
Second-hand cars fulfil a really useful purpose.0 -
Personally, I'm keeping my car going for a few more years (bought in 2010) but I'm hoping never to buy a pure internal combustion vehicle again. Maybe there are others not replacing their cars and affecting the sales figures?rcs1000 said:
How often have you bought a new car? Are you really comparing like-with-like?JosiasJessop said:That's wrong.
I ink the vast majority of people can see the advantage of EVs - an exception IME being out-and-out petrolheads who like the smell of petrol and grease.
It's not a case of "EVs are good for other people and I’m not going to compromise in my lifestyle", but: "EVs are good, but only other people can afford them, and my 'lifestyle' is actually how I effing well get into work. It's a necessity."
A Tesla Model 3 with the performance package is about £10k less than a BMW M3 - and it will outperform it, and be a much more practical family car. EVs are coming from the top down.
One other thing: you mentioned battery progress as being glacial. And compared to (say) hard disk drive capacity, or semiconductors, it is. But it's also moving at a much, much faster pace than the internal combustion engine. My original Tesla Roadster dates back to 2011. It had a rated range of 220 miles, but (really) would do about 160-180. Just five years later, Tesla will swap that pack out for a new one with a range of 340 miles. So, a pack with the same volume, weight and price as the original now has a capacity more than 40% greater*. That's pretty quick in the world of engineering.
If we were to see another 40% improvement in the next five years, and perhaps 25% in the five after that, then - for new cars - it's hard not see to the majority of the market being electric.
* The rated KWh was 40% more, but apparently the management of the battery is better, and so the range is increased by more than the capacity. Apparently.0 -
I actually think this will be common in 10 years or whenever. It's the next step to routine publishing of tables, and I suspect not that hard for the pollster to put together these days.TheWhiteRabbit said:
I thought I'd seen it all in the polling world...Quincel said:The New York Times is live-reporting a poll of Texas which started RIGHT NOW.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/upshot/elections-poll-txsen-2.html
(I know, I need to get a life.)0 -
These numbers are presumably unweighted? Or are they able to weight as they go?rcs1000 said:On topic, the New York Times is live polling a bunch of congressional districts (and states). And their findings are nowhere near as Democrat friendly as the Washington Post. (See: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/upshot/elections-polls.html)
They have the Democrats doing poorly in NY1 (which they only lost in 2014), NC13, Penn16 and Illinois 14 - all of which they should hope to win in 2018.
However, where they have them doing much better than the national polls would suggest in affluent suburbs, and in particular affluent white suburbs like California 45 & 49, and Kansas 3. Places hit by tariffs on Agriculture also seem to have swung very blue: the Dems are leading 52-37 in Iowa 1.0 -
Cancelling Brexit does not guarantee preservation of the UK, the SNP will keep pressing on for independence even if the UK votes to remain in the EU in an EUref2 as will Sinn Fein for a United Ireland, just Brexit, particularly No Deal Brexit, makes it a bit more likely than before that Scotland will vote for independence but not a certainty and creates tensions with the Republic of IrelandSouthamObserver said:
Neither of which has anything to do with the fact that most Tory voters now value England leaving the EU above preserving the UK.HYUFD said:
No as I said Wales voted Leave and the Tories are the main opposition party in Wales and ScotlandSouthamObserver said:
None of which mitigates the fact that the Conservative and Unionist Party is now the English Nationalist PartyHYUFD said:
Wales of course voted Leave too.SouthamObserver said:The Conservative and Unionist Party has become the English Nationalist Party.
https://twitter.com/peterkgeoghegan/status/1049248523630387201?s=21
Plus that also presumes that Scots will automatically vote Yes to independence after Brexit, that is not certain either, Panelbase had No to independence ahead 52% to 48% yesterday even in the event of No Deal, the hardest of Brexit outcomes0 -
Quite a few taxis and Ubers around here use Priuses (if that's the plural).rcs1000 said:
In LA, I've had electric Ubers a bunch of timesBromptonaut said:
Not Ubers yet...but black cabs yes.MikeSmithson said:
But you don't have the capital outlay of the charging unit. My petrol bill for the year is about £730 and the range of my car is just under 600 miles - two or three times better than an EV.Nigelb said:
It's about £500 to install a home charging point (with government grant).MikeSmithson said:
Running an electric car and using public charge points can be expensive - sometimes £8 a time. Assuming that gives you 100 miles it is probably not that much cheaper than the petrol for a my Toyota Auris Hybrid which does 60+ MPGBeverley_C said:
You will be predicting a computer in every home nextrcs1000 said:Re electrical charging points.
We have electrical cables running down every single street in London. It is barely any more difficult to install an electrical charge point than a parking meter.
Over the next 25 years, every urban street will be filled, end-to-end, with electrical charge points. Every supermarket parking space will have one. Every multistory or office car park.
The new Hyundai has a 65kW battery pack which gives around a 300 mile range.
Cost of (daytime) electricity is (say) 15p per unit including VAT (you could reduce that with a night time rate), so 300 miles costs about a tenner, plus a pound a day over a couple of years to pay for the charging point.
The petrol would be around three times as much ?
When EVs are the cars of choice for UBER drivers then you'll know they've arrived.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOxnJQP2_0E0 -
Yes, IC engines are improving at a slower pace - but they are improving. However that is after a century of concentrated optimisation that batteries have not really had, so is to be expected. I do believe to see future increases in the three important criteria - cost, energy density and recharge time - will require significant chemistry changes that are currently only in the lab. But lots of people are looking into it, and I'm hopeful it will not happen. But it isn't certain, and the question is which group will have the Eureka! moment.rcs1000 said:How often have you bought a new car? Are you really comparing like-with-like?
A Tesla Model 3 with the performance package is about £10k less than a BMW M3 - and it will outperform it, and be a much more practical family car. EVs are coming from the top down.
One other thing: you mentioned battery progress as being glacial. And compared to (say) hard disk drive capacity, or semiconductors, it is. But it's also moving at a much, much faster pace than the internal combustion engine. My original Tesla Roadster dates back to 2011. It had a rated range of 220 miles, but (really) would do about 160-180. Just five years later, Tesla will swap that pack out for a new one with a range of 340 miles. So, a pack with the same volume, weight and price as the original now has a capacity more than 40% greater*. That's pretty quick in the world of engineering.
If we were to see another 40% improvement in the next five years, and perhaps 25% in the five after that, then - for new cars - it's hard not see to the majority of the market being electric.
* The rated KWh was 40% more, but apparently the management of the battery is better, and so the range is increased by more than the capacity. Apparently.
A BMW M3 costs £58k. I know you're rich and successful (and good on you for that), but that's an unimaginable amount for most people to consider spending on a car - especially when it is sub-optimal in other ways. After all, we keep on discussing how difficult it is for 'ordinary' people to afford the deposit on a house.
Come back when you get a Ford Fiesta-like replacement at sub-£20k. That's an 'ordinary' car. We may not be too far off.0 -
These were pure electric: Bolts for uberx, and a Tesla Model X on eberexeclogical_song said:
Quite a few taxis and Ubers around here use Priuses (if that's the plural).rcs1000 said:
In LA, I've had electric Ubers a bunch of timesBromptonaut said:
Not Ubers yet...but black cabs yes.MikeSmithson said:
But you don't have the capital outlay of the charging unit. My petrol bill for the year is about £730 and the range of my car is just under 600 miles - two or three times better than an EV.Nigelb said:
It's about £500 to install a home charging point (with government grant).MikeSmithson said:
Running an electric car and using public charge points can be expensive - sometimes £8 a time. Assuming that gives you 100 miles it is probably not that much cheaper than the petrol for a my Toyota Auris Hybrid which does 60+ MPGBeverley_C said:
You will be predicting a computer in every home nextrcs1000 said:Re electrical charging points.
We have electrical cables running down every single street in London. It is barely any more difficult to install an electrical charge point than a parking meter.
Over the next 25 years, every urban street will be filled, end-to-end, with electrical charge points. Every supermarket parking space will have one. Every multistory or office car park.
The new Hyundai has a 65kW battery pack which gives around a 300 mile range.
Cost of (daytime) electricity is (say) 15p per unit including VAT (you could reduce that with a night time rate), so 300 miles costs about a tenner, plus a pound a day over a couple of years to pay for the charging point.
The petrol would be around three times as much ?
When EVs are the cars of choice for UBER drivers then you'll know they've arrived.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOxnJQP2_0E0 -
The collapse in diesel has seen a huge loss of trade in / part exchange values.logical_song said:
Personally, I'm keeping my car going for a few more years (bought in 2010) but I'm hoping never to buy a pure internal combustion vehicle again. Maybe there are others not replacing their cars and affecting the sales figures?rcs1000 said:
How often have you bought a new car? Are you really comparing like-with-like?JosiasJessop said:That's wrong.
I ink the vast majority of people can see the advantage of EVs - an exception IME being out-and-out petrolheads who like the smell of petrol and grease.
It's not a case of "EVs are good for other people and I’m not going to compromise in my lifestyle", but: "EVs are good, but only other people can afford them, and my 'lifestyle' is actually how I effing well get into work. It's a necessity."
A Tesla Model 3 with the performance package is about £10k less than a BMW M3 - and it will outperform it, and be a much more practical family car. EVs are coming from the top down.
One other thing: you mentioned battery progress as being glacial. And compared to (say) hard disk drive capacity, or semiconductors, it is. But it's also moving at a much, much faster pace than the internal combustion engine. My original Tesla Roadster dates back to 2011. It had a rated range of 220 miles, but (really) would do about 160-180. Just five years later, Tesla will swap that pack out for a new one with a range of 340 miles. So, a pack with the same volume, weight and price as the original now has a capacity more than 40% greater*. That's pretty quick in the world of engineering.
If we were to see another 40% improvement in the next five years, and perhaps 25% in the five after that, then - for new cars - it's hard not see to the majority of the market being electric.
* The rated KWh was 40% more, but apparently the management of the battery is better, and so the range is increased by more than the capacity. Apparently.
Jaguar Land Rover is closing Solihull for two weeks later this month following a drop of 46% in sales to China in September
The problem as I see it is the attack on diesel has been terrible for car manufacturers and the EV is not ready in the cycle of it's development to step in.
Also ppi claims have tailed off resulting in less cash for deposits.
The likely result of this is car owners hanging on to their cars much longer, after all they are very reliable today, and a vacuum for car manufacturers that is very dangerous to the industry0 -
It seems one of my colleagues has been a bit naughty whilst sightseeing:
https://twitter.com/Jim_Cornelius/status/1049385054680571905?s=19
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Quite a remarkable surge for the man, and even more remarkable an earlier BBC report said that he was the top choice for women despite multiple openly misogynist views.The_Apocalypse said:0 -
Oh that this was so. The electric distribution companies are not going to be looking forward to the mass adoption of electric cars one little bit.rcs1000 said:Re electrical charging points.
We have electrical cables running down every single street in London. It is barely any more difficult to install an electrical charge point than a parking meter.
Over the next 25 years, every urban street will be filled, end-to-end, with electrical charge points. Every supermarket parking space will have one. Every multistory or office car park.
The problem is that all the cables in the street are sized based on a reasonable set of assumptions about the peak load they are likely to experience. This calculation most definitely did not include fast charging a car at every other lamppost. To put charging points in for most of the country will mean digging up the pavements and putting in lots of new cables - at a cost probably similar in magnitude to supplying everyone in the country with free fuel for their diesel cars for the next 3 years!
This problem extends well beyond the cables in the street - the substations, medium and high voltage grids etc. are are also going to be lacking in capacity. Then we have generation capacity - we use around 45 billion litres of petrol / diesel the UK uannually, to replace all that you'll extra generating capacity (at a time when the grid is resorting to hiding diesel engines in buildings all over the country as there aren't enough power stations left to keep the lights on).0 -
Very good post.SeanT said:
The sheer mind-numbing pain and tedium of Brexit might also have the opposite effect on Scots to that desired by the SNP. People may say in a poll they want indy, and perhaps, emotionally, they do (or at least a very large minority of Scots - 45%+) but does indy look so tempting now we've all witnessed what leaving a mere trading bloc does to politics?HYUFD said:
Cancelling Brexit does not guarantee preservation of the UK, the SNP will keep pressing on for independence even if the UK votes to remain in the EU in an EUref2 as will Sinn Fein for a United Ireland, just Brexit, particularly No Deal Brexit, makes it a bit more likely than before that Scotland will vote for independence but not a certainty and creates tensions with the Republic of IrelandSouthamObserver said:
Neither of which has anything to do with the fact that most Tory voters now value England leaving the EU above preserving the UK.HYUFD said:
No as I said Wales voted Leave and the Tories are the main opposition party in Wales and ScotlandSouthamObserver said:
None of which mitigates the fact that the Conservative and Unionist Party is now the English Nationalist PartyHYUFD said:
Wales of course voted Leave too.SouthamObserver said:The Conservative and Unionist Party has become the English Nationalist Party.
https://twitter.com/peterkgeoghegan/status/1049248523630387201?s=21
Plus that also presumes that Scots will automatically vote Yes to independence after Brexit, that is not certain either, Panelbase had No to independence ahead 52% to 48% yesterday even in the event of No Deal, the hardest of Brexit outcomes
Scots indy would be Brexit times ten. Unweaving a 300 year old union, and for what? To simply go back into the EU, submit to Brussels, and use the euro? It also means ANOTHER decade of arse-aching constitutional upheaval.
I suspect most voters (including Remainers and Leavers) would be glad if we didn't have any more referendums on ANYTHING for a generation.0 -
Yes, older diesels have lost their trade in value. Run them until they are scrap is the only economical thing to do, unless Spreadsheet Phil sets up another scrappage scheme.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The collapse in diesel has seen a huge loss of trade in / part exchange values.logical_song said:
Personally, I'm keeping my car going for a few more years (bought in 2010) but I'm hoping never to buy a pure internal combustion vehicle again. Maybe there are others not replacing their cars and affecting the sales figures?rcs1000 said:
How often have you bought a new car? Are you really comparing like-with-like?JosiasJessop said:That's wrong.
I ink the vast majority of people can see the advantage of EVs - an exception IME being out-and-out petrolheads who like the smell of petrol and grease.
It's not a case of "EVs are good for other people and I’m not going to compromise in my lifestyle", but: "EVs are good, but only other people can afford them, and my 'lifestyle' is actually how I effing well get into work. It's a necessity."
A Tesla Model 3 with the performance package is about £10k less than a BMW M3 - and it will outperform it, and be a much more practical family car. EVs are coming from the top down.
One other thing: you mentioned battery progress as being glacial. And compared to (say) hard disk drive capacity, or semiconductors, it is. But it's also moving at a much, much faster pace than the internal combustion engine. My original Tesla Roadster dates back to 2011. It had a rated range of 220 miles, but (really) would do about 160-180. Just five years later, Tesla will swap that pack out for a new one with a range of 340 miles. So, a pack with the same volume, weight and price as the original now has a capacity more than 40% greater*. That's pretty quick in the world of engineering.
If we were to see another 40% improvement in the next five years, and perhaps 25% in the five after that, then - for new cars - it's hard not see to the majority of the market being electric.
* The rated KWh was 40% more, but apparently the management of the battery is better, and so the range is increased by more than the capacity. Apparently.
Jaguar Land Rover is closing Solihull for two weeks later this month following a drop of 46% in sales to China in September
The problem as I see it is the attack on diesel has been terrible for car manufacturers and the EV is not ready in the cycle of it's development to step in.
Also ppi claims have tailed off resulting in less cash for deposits.
The likely result of this is car is owners hanging on to their cars much longer, after all they are very reliable today, and a vacuum for car manufacturers that is very dangerous to the industry0 -
My supposition is that just as Hilary lost it in the suburbs the Dems will Blue wave it in the suburbs this November.rcs1000 said:On topic, the New York Times is live polling a bunch of congressional districts (and states). And their findings are nowhere near as Democrat friendly as the Washington Post. (See: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/upshot/elections-polls.html)
They have the Democrats doing poorly in NY1 (which they only lost in 2014), NC13, Penn16 and Illinois 14 - all of which they should hope to win in 2018.
However, where they have them doing much better than the national polls would suggest in affluent suburbs, and in particular affluent white suburbs like California 45 & 49, and Kansas 3. Places hit by tariffs on Agriculture also seem to have swung very blue: the Dems are leading 52-37 in Iowa 1.0 -
Democracy is more important than a union with recalcitrant members.SouthamObserver said:
None of which mitigates the fact that the Conservative and Unionist Party is now the English Nationalist PartyHYUFD said:
Wales of course voted Leave too.SouthamObserver said:The Conservative and Unionist Party has become the English Nationalist Party.
https://twitter.com/peterkgeoghegan/status/1049248523630387201?s=21
Plus that also presumes that Scots will automatically vote Yes to independence after Brexit, that is not certain either, Panelbase had No to independence ahead 52% to 48% yesterday even in the event of No Deal, the hardest of Brexit outcomes
Works whether we are talking about EU or UK.0 -
That wasn't my point.JosiasJessop said:A BMW M3 costs £58k. I know you're rich and successful (and good on you for that), but that's an unimaginable amount for most people to consider spending on a car - especially when it is sub-optimal in other ways. After all, we keep on discussing how difficult it is for 'ordinary' people to afford the deposit on a house.
Come back when you get a Ford Fiesta-like replacement at sub-£20k. That's an 'ordinary' car. We may not be too far off.
My point was this:
In 2000, electric cars could compete on a cost efficient basis with 0% of the automotive market.
In 2010, it was perhaps 1%.
In 2015, probably 5%.
In 2020, it'll be 15% or 20%.
Are you seeing a trend?
Now, for people who do low numbers of miles a year who don't want to swap lower fuel and maintenance for higher capital costs, the cross over point may be 25 years away. For people who want to travel 1,000 miles in 24 hours, then - again - electric is a long way from being viable.
But this is flash vs HDDs: every year the price/performance differential gets a little narrower, and the share of the market EVs takes increases.0 -
Maybe, and in one sense that would be a relief, although I would hope that unionists work a lot damn harder to convince people of the positives of the union, on both sides - apathy toward it in England is surely important just as indy sentiment in the other nations is.SeanT said:
The sheer mind-numbing pain and tedium of Brexit might also have the opposite effect on Scots to that desired by the SNP. People may say in a poll they want indy, and perhaps, emotionally, they do (or at least a very large minority of Scots - 45%+) but does indy look so tempting now we've all witnessed what leaving a mere trading bloc does to politics?HYUFD said:
Cancelling Brexit does not guarantee preservation of the UK, the SNP will keep pressing on for independence even if the UK votes to remain in the EU in an EUref2 as will Sinn Fein for a United Ireland, just Brexit, particularly No Deal Brexit, makes it a bit more likely than before that Scotland will vote for independence but not a certainty and creates tensions with the Republic of IrelandSouthamObserver said:
Neither of which has anything to do with the fact that most Tory voters now value England leaving the EU above preserving the UK.HYUFD said:
No as I said Wales voted Leave and the Tories are the main opposition party in Wales and ScotlandSouthamObserver said:
None of which mitigates the fact that the Conservative and Unionist Party is now the English Nationalist PartyHYUFD said:
Wales of course voted Leave too.SouthamObserver said:The Conservative and Unionist Party has become the English Nationalist Party.
https://twitter.com/peterkgeoghegan/status/1049248523630387201?s=21
Plus that also presumes that Scots will automatically vote Yes to independence after Brexit, that is not certain either, Panelbase had No to independence ahead 52% to 48% yesterday even in the event of No Deal, the hardest of Brexit outcomes
Scots indy would be Brexit times ten. Unweaving a 300 year old union, and for what? To simply go back into the EU, submit to Brussels, and use the euro? It also means ANOTHER decade of arse-aching constitutional upheaval.
I suspect most voters (including Remainers and Leavers) would be glad if we didn't have any more referendums on ANYTHING for a generation.
0 -
Cruz on 100% in the poll.0
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OK. But you wouldn't have on street charging being fast charging. If you want to fast charge, you'd go to a Tesla Supercharger (or equivalent). Electric cars are not like petrol ones. You don't wait for them to get nearly empty and then fill them to capacity again. You top them up a small amount whenever you park.theProle said:
Oh that this was so. The electric distribution companies are not going to be looking forward to the mass adoption of electric cars one little bit.rcs1000 said:Re electrical charging points.
We have electrical cables running down every single street in London. It is barely any more difficult to install an electrical charge point than a parking meter.
Over the next 25 years, every urban street will be filled, end-to-end, with electrical charge points. Every supermarket parking space will have one. Every multistory or office car park.
The problem is that all the cables in the street are sized based on a reasonable set of assumptions about the peak load they are likely to experience. This calculation most definitely did not include fast charging a car at every other lamppost. To put charging points in for most of the country will mean digging up the pavements and putting in lots of new cables - at a cost probably similar in magnitude to supplying everyone in the country with free fuel for their diesel cars for the next 3 years!
This problem extends well beyond the cables in the street - the substations, medium and high voltage grids etc. are are also going to be lacking in capacity. Then we have generation capacity - we use around 45 billion litres of petrol / diesel the UK uannually, to replace all that you'll extra generating capacity (at a time when the grid is resorting to hiding diesel engines in buildings all over the country as there aren't enough power stations left to keep the lights on).
And this will be a twenty five to fifty year transition, not something that happens overnight. It's like complaining in 1930 that cars can never be mass market because there were hardly any petrol stations.0 -
Oh god that’s all we need someone who knows what they’re talking about.theProle said:
Oh that this was so. The electric distribution companies are not going to be looking forward to the mass adoption of electric cars one little bit.rcs1000 said:Re electrical charging points.
We have electrical cables running down every single street in London. It is barely any more difficult to install an electrical charge point than a parking meter.
Over the next 25 years, every urban street will be filled, end-to-end, with electrical charge points. Every supermarket parking space will have one. Every multistory or office car park.
The problem is that all the cables in the street are sized based on a reasonable set of assumptions about the peak load they are likely to experience. This calculation most definitely did not include fast charging a car at every other lamppost. To put charging points in for most of the country will mean digging up the pavements and putting in lots of new cables - at a cost probably similar in magnitude to supplying everyone in the country with free fuel for their diesel cars for the next 3 years!
This problem extends well beyond the cables in the street - the substations, medium and high voltage grids etc. are are also going to be lacking in capacity. Then we have generation capacity - we use around 45 billion litres of petrol / diesel the UK uannually, to replace all that you'll extra generating capacity (at a time when the grid is resorting to hiding diesel engines in buildings all over the country as there aren't enough power stations left to keep the lights on).0 -
An English Parliament would help, just leave Westminster as the Federal Parliament and ultimately devomax for the Scottish Parliamentkle4 said:
Maybe, and in one sense that would be a relief, although I would hope that unionists work a lot damn harder to convince people of the positives of the union, on both sides - apathy toward it in England is surely important just as indy sentiment in the other nations is.SeanT said:
The sheer mind-numbing pain and tedium of Brexit might also have the opposite effect on Scots to that desired by the SNP. People may say in a poll they want indy, and perhaps, emotionally, they do (or at least a very large minority of Scots - 45%+) but does indy look so tempting now we've all witnessed what leaving a mere trading bloc does to politics?HYUFD said:
Cancelling Brexit does not guarantee preservation of the UK, the SNP will keep pressing on for independence even if the UK votes to remain in the EU in an EUref2 as will Sinn Fein for a United Ireland, just Brexit, particularly No Deal Brexit, makes it a bit more likely than before that Scotland will vote for independence but not a certainty and creates tensions with the Republic of IrelandSouthamObserver said:
Neither of which has anything to do with the fact that most Tory voters now value England leaving the EU above preserving the UK.HYUFD said:
No as I said Wales voted Leave and the Tories are the main opposition party in Wales and ScotlandSouthamObserver said:
None of which mitigates the fact that the Conservative and Unionist Party is now the English Nationalist PartyHYUFD said:
Wales of course voted Leave too.SouthamObserver said:The Conservative and Unionist Party has become the English Nationalist Party.
https://twitter.com/peterkgeoghegan/status/1049248523630387201?s=21
Plus that also presumes that Scots will automatically vote Yes to independence after Brexit, that is not certain either, Panelbase had No to independence ahead 52% to 48% yesterday even in the event of No Deal, the hardest of Brexit outcomes
Scots indy would be Brexit times ten. Unweaving a 300 year old union, and for what? To simply go back into the EU, submit to Brussels, and use the euro? It also means ANOTHER decade of arse-aching constitutional upheaval.
I suspect most voters (including Remainers and Leavers) would be glad if we didn't have any more referendums on ANYTHING for a generation.0 -
Or alternatively they could be below the 24% the poll gives them.justin124 said:
I will still be surprised if the SNP exceed 35% at the next Westminster election. Labour could well be at circa 30%.HYUFD said:
SNP down 5% on 2016 should be enough to give Ruth Davidson rather than Patrick Harvie the balance of powerfelix said:SNP 41% (-1)
CON 26% (+2)
LAB 24% (+1)
LD 7% (-1)
Survation Scotland.0 -
Aesthetic reasons?!rpjs said:
For aesthetic reasons mostly. We're not allowed to fence or hedge in our property as well.Foxy said:
Why?rpjs said:
It's illegal to put your clothes out to dry in many, if not most places, in the US, including where I live.geoffw said:
In 1994 Palo Alto celebrated its centenary and the local rag explained to readers what life was like 100 years ago. One of the astonishing examples of pioneer life was that families hung out their washing on lines to dry.Cyclefree said:
. . .- And washing lines instead of tumble dryers. They appear to have vanished and yet they are free and dry washing far better than expensive dryers.murali_s said:Why do the right-wingers think that the anthropogenic forcing of the climate cannot be reduced or even halted. Just curious to know as this is probably the biggest crisis facing humanity.
. . .
For a country that calls itself the "Land of the Free" the US has a myriad of petty regulations.
Why aren’t there laws banning those obese Americans waddling around the place, then?
A washing line is a thing of great beauty by comparison.
And hedges are great for wildlife.
Honestly, the Americans voting for Trump was bad enough. But this .... well.......it’s the limit.0 -
Homeowners association, no doubt.Cyclefree said:
Aesthetic reasons?!rpjs said:
For aesthetic reasons mostly. We're not allowed to fence or hedge in our property as well.Foxy said:
Why?rpjs said:
It's illegal to put your clothes out to dry in many, if not most places, in the US, including where I live.geoffw said:
In 1994 Palo Alto celebrated its centenary and the local rag explained to readers what life was like 100 years ago. One of the astonishing examples of pioneer life was that families hung out their washing on lines to dry.Cyclefree said:
. . .- And washing lines instead of tumble dryers. They appear to have vanished and yet they are free and dry washing far better than expensive dryers.murali_s said:Why do the right-wingers think that the anthropogenic forcing of the climate cannot be reduced or even halted. Just curious to know as this is probably the biggest crisis facing humanity.
. . .
For a country that calls itself the "Land of the Free" the US has a myriad of petty regulations.
Why aren’t there laws banning those obese Americans waddling around the place, then?
A washing line is a thing of great beauty by comparison.
And hedges are great for wildlife.
Honestly, the Americans voting for Trump was bad enough. But this .... well.......it’s the limit.0 -
And on cars in general don't get me started on the level of household indebtedness which sees a brand spanking new Evoque outside a two up two down council house. Madness.
Cars are simply unaffordable save for on the never never; as @JosiasJessop says, can anyone but the few imagine paying sixty grand for a car these days unless it's with finance?0 -
Agreed but if it is No Deal Brexit I think EUref2 sooner or later is inevitable, perhaps even before March, with Remain opening up a 10% lead in polls over No Deal that is not sustainable in the way a Canada or Norway style Brexit would be.SeanT said:
The sheer mind-numbing pain and tedium of Brexit might also have the opposite effect on Scots to that desired by the SNP. People may say in a poll they want indy, and perhaps, emotionally, they do (or at least a very large minority of Scots - 45%+) but does indy look so tempting now we've all witnessed what leaving a mere trading bloc does to politics?HYUFD said:
Cancelling Brexit does not guarantee preservation of the UK, the SNP will keep pressing on for independence even if the UK votes to remain in the EU in an EUref2 as will Sinn Fein for a United Ireland, just Brexit, particularly No Deal Brexit, makes it a bit more likely than before that Scotland will vote for independence but not a certainty and creates tensions with the Republic of IrelandSouthamObserver said:
Neither of which has anything to do with the fact that most Tory voters now value England leaving the EU above preserving the UK.HYUFD said:
No as I said Wales voted Leave and the Tories are the main opposition party in Wales and ScotlandSouthamObserver said:
None of which mitigates the fact that the Conservative and Unionist Party is now the English Nationalist PartyHYUFD said:
Wales of course voted Leave too.SouthamObserver said:The Conservative and Unionist Party has become the English Nationalist Party.
https://twitter.com/peterkgeoghegan/status/1049248523630387201?s=21
Plus that also presumes that Scots will automatically vote Yes to independence after Brexit, that is not certain either, Panelbase had No to independence ahead 52% to 48% yesterday even in the event of No Deal, the hardest of Brexit outcomes
Scots indy would be Brexit times ten. Unweaving a 300 year old union, and for what? To simply go back into the EU, submit to Brussels, and use the euro? It also means ANOTHER decade of arse-aching constitutional upheaval.
I suspect most voters (including Remainers and Leavers) would be glad if we didn't have any more referendums on ANYTHING for a generation.
Of course if we get No Deal and no EU ref2 before March the SNP could hold indyref2 instead. If we want to avoid more referendums for a few years we need a Withdrawal Agreement that opens the way to a transition period and a FTA Deal
0 -
Also a very good weekend for the Catholic Church after recent reversals at the polls, he is very anti abortion and takes a traditional line on the family and it added to the boost they had already had from Kavanaugh's appointment being confirmed to the US Supreme Courtkle4 said:
Quite a remarkable surge for the man, and even more remarkable an earlier BBC report said that he was the top choice for women despite multiple openly misogynist views.The_Apocalypse said:0 -
And how often do you think people bought new cars without finance back in 1988?TOPPING said:And on cars in general don't get me started on the level of household indebtedness which sees a brand spanking new Evoque outside a two up two down council house. Madness.
Cars are simply unaffordable save for on the never never; as @JosiasJessop says, can anyone but the few imagine paying sixty grand for a car these days unless it's with finance?0 -
0
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That is a strange sentence. (Saved by the capitalisation, but still strange)rcs1000 said:
In LA, I've had electric Ubers a bunch of timesBromptonaut said:
Not Ubers yet...but black cabs yes.MikeSmithson said:
But you don't have the capital outlay of the charging unit. My petrol bill for the year is about £730 and the range of my car is just under 600 miles - two or three times better than an EV.Nigelb said:
It's about £500 to install a home charging point (with government grant).MikeSmithson said:
Running an electric car and using public charge points can be expensive - sometimes £8 a time. Assuming that gives you 100 miles it is probably not that much cheaper than the petrol for a my Toyota Auris Hybrid which does 60+ MPGBeverley_C said:
You will be predicting a computer in every home nextrcs1000 said:Re electrical charging points.
We have electrical cables running down every single street in London. It is barely any more difficult to install an electrical charge point than a parking meter.
Over the next 25 years, every urban street will be filled, end-to-end, with electrical charge points. Every supermarket parking space will have one. Every multistory or office car park.
The new Hyundai has a 65kW battery pack which gives around a 300 mile range.
Cost of (daytime) electricity is (say) 15p per unit including VAT (you could reduce that with a night time rate), so 300 miles costs about a tenner, plus a pound a day over a couple of years to pay for the charging point.
The petrol would be around three times as much ?
When EVs are the cars of choice for UBER drivers then you'll know they've arrived.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOxnJQP2_0E0 -
Electric cars:
We have a Model S and a BMW i3 on the street I live in - just a normal suburban street in SW London.
It is happening, though not as fast as many would like...0 -
What if May brings back a deal and the initial reaction is similar to the reaction to Dave's deal? I don't think a 2 year old referendum mandate will be enough to get it across the line.HYUFD said:Agreed but if it is No Deal Brexit I think EUref2 sooner or later is inevitable, perhaps even before March, with Remain opening up a 10% lead in polls over No Deal that is not sustainable in the way a Canada or Norway style Brexit would be.
0 -
Analogously to the way they bought their houses. Which were sensibly priced also.rcs1000 said:
And how often do you think people bought new cars without finance back in 1988?TOPPING said:And on cars in general don't get me started on the level of household indebtedness which sees a brand spanking new Evoque outside a two up two down council house. Madness.
Cars are simply unaffordable save for on the never never; as @JosiasJessop says, can anyone but the few imagine paying sixty grand for a car these days unless it's with finance?0 -
Many homeowners associations also insist on plain lawns. No veg growing, or gardens in an English sense. Also for aesthetic reasons...Cyclefree said:
Aesthetic reasons?!rpjs said:
For aesthetic reasons mostly. We're not allowed to fence or hedge in our property as well.Foxy said:
Why?rpjs said:
It's illegal to put your clothes out to dry in many, if not most places, in the US, including where I live.geoffw said:
In 1994 Palo Alto celebrated its centenary and the local rag explained to readers what life was like 100 years ago. One of the astonishing examples of pioneer life was that families hung out their washing on lines to dry.Cyclefree said:
. . .- And washing lines instead of tumble dryers. They appear to have vanished and yet they are free and dry washing far better than expensive dryers.murali_s said:Why do the right-wingers think that the anthropogenic forcing of the climate cannot be reduced or even halted. Just curious to know as this is probably the biggest crisis facing humanity.
. . .
For a country that calls itself the "Land of the Free" the US has a myriad of petty regulations.
Why aren’t there laws banning those obese Americans waddling around the place, then?
A washing line is a thing of great beauty by comparison.
And hedges are great for wildlife.
Honestly, the Americans voting for Trump was bad enough. But this .... well.......it’s the limit.0 -
Similar mindset but in our case it's enacted into the Village Code, which contains among other things the requirement to pay an annual fee to have smoke alarms in our house! Thankfully that one is not enforced because even our village administration realizes it wouldn't be conducive to fire prevention.RobD said:
Homeowners association, no doubt.Cyclefree said:
Aesthetic reasons?!rpjs said:
For aesthetic reasons mostly. We're not allowed to fence or hedge in our property as well.Foxy said:
Why?rpjs said:
It's illegal to put your clothes out to dry in many, if not most places, in the US, including where I live.geoffw said:
In 1994 Palo Alto celebrated its centenary and the local rag explained to readers what life was like 100 years ago. One of the astonishing examples of pioneer life was that families hung out their washing on lines to dry.Cyclefree said:
. . .- And washing lines instead of tumble dryers. They appear to have vanished and yet they are free and dry washing far better than expensive dryers.murali_s said:Why do the right-wingers think that the anthropogenic forcing of the climate cannot be reduced or even halted. Just curious to know as this is probably the biggest crisis facing humanity.
. . .
For a country that calls itself the "Land of the Free" the US has a myriad of petty regulations.
Why aren’t there laws banning those obese Americans waddling around the place, then?
A washing line is a thing of great beauty by comparison.
And hedges are great for wildlife.
Honestly, the Americans voting for Trump was bad enough. But this .... well.......it’s the limit.
A lot of this sort of thing is routinely ignored in practice. For instance, on the entrances to the upscale neighbourhood across the main road there are signs banning all on-street parking (all the houses have very large lots with plenty of off-street parking). I walk to the station through that area and I once did a count of all the cars parked on-street and reckoned that if the village PD was short of funds, they could probably make several thousand in parking fines if they actually went by one morning and enforced it. They never will of course because every single member of the Village Board of Trustees lives in that neighbourhood.0 -
With regard to electric vehicles: they are only going to appeal to people who buy new cars. This isn't for everyone.
I have a 10 plus year old petrol car. Nothing ever goes wrong with it. It costs next to nothing to fix and takes the (local, independent) garage next to no time to do it. It does about 40 miles to the gallon, so not very different to a new car. Internally, it is very comfortable and has no gadgets that can go wrong. It basically has no depreciation, because it cost me virtually nothing, still has a low mileage.
If you want me to change to an electric car, the only way of doing that is by making my car too expensive by massively hiking up the road tax.
Why would I want to spend £30k on a new electric volkswagen stuffed with dodgy computers?
0 -
That's brilliant. Winston Churchill's resignation as PM is closer to my birth than today.SeanT said:This is a brilliant website if you want to feel really OLD
The sinking of the Titanic and the launch of the Model T Ford are both nearer in time to my birthdate, than I am now: at my present age today.
http://you.regettingold.com0 -
The most recent Survation poll actually gives Labour 26.4% compared with 37.4% for the SNP. The latter have consistently underperformed their poll ratings in recent years.felix said:
Or alternatively they could be below the 24% the poll gives them.justin124 said:
I will still be surprised if the SNP exceed 35% at the next Westminster election. Labour could well be at circa 30%.HYUFD said:
SNP down 5% on 2016 should be enough to give Ruth Davidson rather than Patrick Harvie the balance of powerfelix said:SNP 41% (-1)
CON 26% (+2)
LAB 24% (+1)
LD 7% (-1)
Survation Scotland.0 -
I have never bought a new car in my life. The nearest I ever got was an ex-rental. 3 months old and all the VAT knocked off plus the "stigma" of being ex-rental. I saved many thousands on that car and it lasted a decade of high mileage trips.JosiasJessop said:Pulpstar said:
Isn't it more "Other people might buy new cars, but I don't. When Model 3s start cropping up on Autotrader for 15k I might consider an EV"JosiasJessop said:
It's not a case of "EVs are good for other people and I’m not going to compromise in my lifestyle", but: "EVs are good, but only other people can afford them, and my 'lifestyle' is actually how I effing well get into work. It's a necessity."
Mrs J needs a new car, for a seventy minute drive into work and the same back every day - her 12-year old Honda Jazz is good, but is getting slightly unreliable and is not good on long journeys (I should know, I drove it for 12 hours up to Durness in order to break my arm).
I'm trying to talk her into buying a new car - the first one either of us will have bought. But cars are a tool for us - something that allows us to do what we need to do - and therefore we cannot justify spending too much. We're lucky enough to be able to afford something more expensive, but as we're not car fans we cannot justify spending too much.
Second-hand cars fulfil a really useful purpose.0 -
Apologies if has already been mentioned. But how about regular, not necessarily frequent, affordable buses? They appear to have gone extinct outside major cities. They could be electric too.0
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You're intelligent enough to know the potential flaws in assuming that trend will continue.rcs1000 said:
That wasn't my point.JosiasJessop said:A BMW M3 costs £58k. I know you're rich and successful (and good on you for that), but that's an unimaginable amount for most people to consider spending on a car - especially when it is sub-optimal in other ways. After all, we keep on discussing how difficult it is for 'ordinary' people to afford the deposit on a house.
Come back when you get a Ford Fiesta-like replacement at sub-£20k. That's an 'ordinary' car. We may not be too far off.
My point was this:
In 2000, electric cars could compete on a cost efficient basis with 0% of the automotive market.
In 2010, it was perhaps 1%.
In 2015, probably 5%.
In 2020, it'll be 15% or 20%.
Are you seeing a trend?
Now, for people who do low numbers of miles a year who don't want to swap lower fuel and maintenance for higher capital costs, the cross over point may be 25 years away. For people who want to travel 1,000 miles in 24 hours, then - again - electric is a long way from being viable.
But this is flash vs HDDs: every year the price/performance differential gets a little narrower, and the share of the market EVs takes increases.
But the point is we're where we were with flash vs HDD's twenty years ago: Flash performs better in many ways, but is vastly more expensive and has other disadvantages. And besides, it's a specious comparison: as you alluded to earlier, the silicon domain is different wrt performance increases - see Moore's Law. Changes in battery chemistry have been *far* slower. In fact, a good proportion of the performance increases we've seen will be down to better knowledge of how a chemistry performs, and of hardware/software that 'drives' the battery in such a way as to maximise performance.
There are three main variables for EV car batteries: energy density, cost, and recharge times (*). It can be like squeezing a balloon: you can alter one, but the other two will often worsen. The question is when we existing chemistries will plateau - in effect when the Li-ion equivalent of Moore's Law will end. Perhaps it won't for a while - or perhaps it will.
I honestly cannot see mass-market EVs taking off without a drastic new battery tech - and that'll probably be away from Li-Ion.
(*) There are others, such as safety and longevity.0 -
Why, oh why did I click on that link. I'm depressed now!SeanT said:This is a brilliant website if you want to feel really OLD
The sinking of the Titanic and the launch of the Model T Ford are both nearer in time to my birthdate, than I am now: at my present age today.
http://you.regettingold.com 0 -
I was born in 1961. WW2 was closer to then, than 9/11 is to now.SeanT said:This is a brilliant website if you want to feel really OLD
The sinking of the Titanic and the launch of the Model T Ford are both nearer in time to my birthdate, than I am now: at my present age today.
http://you.regettingold.com0 -
End of WWII closer to my birthdate than today is to that date
0 -
On the big debate of the day, we use a washing line all the time. In our suburban London turning, I’d say at least 50% of the houses do. I had no idea it was ‘dying out’? Is it? Tumblers wreck clothes.
I was aware that Americans by and large don’t do it. I had no idea it was illegal in many states.
And why no proper gardens in many American neighbourhoods, the lack of separation of land seems odd to me.0 -
I was born in 1954 and am now as close to 80 as to early January 2003 - ie when Roy Jenkins passed away. That seems very recent to me!Ishmael_Z said:
I was born in 1961. WW2 was closer to then, than 9/11 is to now.SeanT said:This is a brilliant website if you want to feel really OLD
The sinking of the Titanic and the launch of the Model T Ford are both nearer in time to my birthdate, than I am now: at my present age today.
http://you.regettingold.com0 -
I was born 3 months before D day0
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That's a great data-mining website.kle4 said:
That's brilliant. Winston Churchill's resignation as PM is closer to my birth than today.SeanT said:This is a brilliant website if you want to feel really OLD
The sinking of the Titanic and the launch of the Model T Ford are both nearer in time to my birthdate, than I am now: at my present age today.
http://you.regettingold.com
And why does it want to know if it's for you or a friend ... ?0 -
I don't think any state has a blanket ban but very many, perhaps most, municipalities do, and if they don't almost anywhere with a homeowners' association, which are almost ubiquitous in some regions, will have it.Anazina said:I was aware that Americans by and large don’t do it. I had no idea it was illegal in many states.
0 -
Nah. Electric cars will eclipse conventional engines in new sales within 10 years, I think. The concept of filling up a car with fuel then burning it in city centres so people breathe it will soon seem as mad as smoking 20 a day. The tech is already there for most users. Prices will come down readily.JosiasJessop said:
You're intelligent enough to know the potential flaws in assuming that trend will continue.rcs1000 said:
That wasn't my point.JosiasJessop said:A BMW M3 costs £58k. I know you're rich and successful (and good on you for that), but that's an unimaginable amount for most people to consider spending on a car - especially when it is sub-optimal in other ways. After all, we keep on discussing how difficult it is for 'ordinary' people to afford the deposit on a house.
Come back when you get a Ford Fiesta-like replacement at sub-£20k. That's an 'ordinary' car. We may not be too far off.
My point was this:
In 2000, electric cars could compete on a cost efficient basis with 0% of the automotive market.
In 2010, it was perhaps 1%.
In 2015, probably 5%.
In 2020, it'll be 15% or 20%.
Are you seeing a trend?
Now, for people who do low numbers of miles a year who don't want to swap lower fuel and maintenance for higher capital costs, the cross over point may be 25 years away. For people who want to travel 1,000 miles in 24 hours, then - again - electric is a long way from being viable.
But this is flash vs HDDs: every year the price/performance differential gets a little narrower, and the share of the market EVs takes increases.
But the point is we're where we were with flash vs HDD's twenty years ago: Flash performs better in many ways, but is vastly more expensive and has other disadvantages. And besides, it's a specious comparison: as you alluded to earlier, the silicon domain is different wrt performance increases - see Moore's Law. Changes in battery chemistry have been *far* slower. In fact, a good proportion of the performance increases we've seen will be down to better knowledge of how a chemistry performs, and of hardware/software that 'drives' the battery in such a way as to maximise performance.
There are three main variables for EV car batteries: energy density, cost, and recharge times (*). It can be like squeezing a balloon: you can alter one, but the other two will often worsen. The question is when we existing chemistries will plateau - in effect when the Li-ion equivalent of Moore's Law will end. Perhaps it won't for a while - or perhaps it will.
I honestly cannot see mass-market EVs taking off without a drastic new battery tech - and that'll probably be away from Li-Ion.
(*) There are others, such as safety and longevity.
0 -
Bloody hell! 2nd Ypres for me! Didn't like the 9% born at my time are already dead...SeanT said:This is a brilliant website if you want to feel really OLD
The sinking of the Titanic and the launch of the Model T Ford are both nearer in time to my birthdate, than I am now: at my present age today.
http://you.regettingold.com0 -
All she will be bringing back is a Withdrawal Agreement and transition period, there will be no Final FTA Deal to vote on, that will be negotiated in the transition periodwilliamglenn said:
What if May brings back a deal and the initial reaction is similar to the reaction to Dave's deal? I don't think a 2 year old referendum mandate will be enough to get it across the line.HYUFD said:Agreed but if it is No Deal Brexit I think EUref2 sooner or later is inevitable, perhaps even before March, with Remain opening up a 10% lead in polls over No Deal that is not sustainable in the way a Canada or Norway style Brexit would be.
0 -
Fuck, I had the idea to make that website about 4 months ago and never did.SeanT said:This is a brilliant website if you want to feel really OLD
The sinking of the Titanic and the launch of the Model T Ford are both nearer in time to my birthdate, than I am now: at my present age today.
http://you.regettingold.com
Damn people having ideas and then executing on them.0 -
There's always been folk with more money than sense, but now we have many with more credit than sense.TOPPING said:And on cars in general don't get me started on the level of household indebtedness which sees a brand spanking new Evoque outside a two up two down council house. Madness.
Cars are simply unaffordable save for on the never never; as @JosiasJessop says, can anyone but the few imagine paying sixty grand for a car these days unless it's with finance?0 -
dixiedean said:
Many homeowners associations also insist on plain lawns. No veg growing, or gardens in an English sense. Also for aesthetic reasons...Cyclefree said:
Aesthetic reasons?!rpjs said:
For aesthetic reasons mostly. We're not allowed to fence or hedge in our property as well.Foxy said:
Why?rpjs said:
It's illegal to put your clothes out to dry in many, if not most places, in the US, including where I live.geoffw said:
In 1994 Palo Alto celebrated its centenary and the local rag explained to readers what life was like 100 years ago. One of the astonishing examples of pioneer life was that families hung out their washing on lines to dry.Cyclefree said:
. . .- And washing lines instead of tumble dryers. They appear to have vanished and yet they are free and dry washing far better than expensive dryers.murali_s said:Why do the right-wingers think that the anthropogenic forcing of the climate cannot be reduced or even halted. Just curious to know as this is probably the biggest crisis facing humanity.
. . .
For a country that calls itself the "Land of the Free" the US has a myriad of petty regulations.
Why aren’t there laws banning those obese Americans waddling around the place, then?
A washing line is a thing of great beauty by comparison.
And hedges are great for wildlife.
Honestly, the Americans voting for Trump was bad enough. But this .... well.......it’s the limit.
Presumably homeowners associations’ guidelines aren’t legally enforceable?0 -
I read somewhere (though the internet doesn't seem to know about it) that in the Welsh valleys a common tribute to pay to a deceased woman was that "she hung out a lovely wash".Anazina said:On the big debate of the day, we use a washing line all the time. In our suburban London turning, I’d say at least 50% of the houses do. I had no idea it was ‘dying out’? Is it? Tumblers wreck clothes.
I was aware that Americans by and large don’t do it. I had no idea it was illegal in many states.
And why no proper gardens in many American neighbourhoods, the lack of separation of land seems odd to me.0 -
48% are dead in my wifes group. Keep taking the pills and avoid stress, brexit, climate change etcdixiedean said:
Bloody hell! 2nd Ypres for me! Didn't like the 9% born at my time are already dead...SeanT said:This is a brilliant website if you want to feel really OLD
The sinking of the Titanic and the launch of the Model T Ford are both nearer in time to my birthdate, than I am now: at my present age today.
http://you.regettingold.com0 -
They usually are by restrictive covenants.Anazina said:dixiedean said:
Many homeowners associations also insist on plain lawns. No veg growing, or gardens in an English sense. Also for aesthetic reasons...Cyclefree said:
Aesthetic reasons?!rpjs said:
For aesthetic reasons mostly. We're not allowed to fence or hedge in our property as well.Foxy said:
Why?rpjs said:
It's illegal to put your clothes out to dry in many, if not most places, in the US, including where I live.geoffw said:
In 1994 Palo Alto celebrated its centenary and the local rag explained to readers what life was like 100 years ago. One of the astonishing examples of pioneer life was that families hung out their washing on lines to dry.Cyclefree said:
. . .- And washing lines instead of tumble dryers. They appear to have vanished and yet they are free and dry washing far better than expensive dryers.murali_s said:Why do the right-wingers think that the anthropogenic forcing of the climate cannot be reduced or even halted. Just curious to know as this is probably the biggest crisis facing humanity.
. . .
For a country that calls itself the "Land of the Free" the US has a myriad of petty regulations.
Why aren’t there laws banning those obese Americans waddling around the place, then?
A washing line is a thing of great beauty by comparison.
And hedges are great for wildlife.
Honestly, the Americans voting for Trump was bad enough. But this .... well.......it’s the limit.
Presumably homeowners associations’ guidelines aren’t legally enforceable?0 -
They are if the developer sells off plots with restrictive covenants in the sale documents , and presumably also if homeowners voluntarily make such covenants as a condition of joining the association (cue tiresome analogy about the EU).Anazina said:dixiedean said:
Many homeowners associations also insist on plain lawns. No veg growing, or gardens in an English sense. Also for aesthetic reasons...Cyclefree said:
Aesthetic reasons?!rpjs said:
For aesthetic reasons mostly. We're not allowed to fence or hedge in our property as well.Foxy said:
Why?rpjs said:
It's illegal to put your clothes out to dry in many, if not most places, in the US, including where I live.geoffw said:
In 1994 Palo Alto celebrated its centenary and the local rag explained to readers what life was like 100 years ago. One of the astonishing examples of pioneer life was that families hung out their washing on lines to dry.Cyclefree said:
. . .- And washing lines instead of tumble dryers. They appear to have vanished and yet they are free and dry washing far better than expensive dryers.murali_s said:Why do the right-wingers think that the anthropogenic forcing of the climate cannot be reduced or even halted. Just curious to know as this is probably the biggest crisis facing humanity.
. . .
For a country that calls itself the "Land of the Free" the US has a myriad of petty regulations.
Why aren’t there laws banning those obese Americans waddling around the place, then?
A washing line is a thing of great beauty by comparison.
And hedges are great for wildlife.
Honestly, the Americans voting for Trump was bad enough. But this .... well.......it’s the limit.
Presumably homeowners associations’ guidelines aren’t legally enforceable?0 -
Pah. That's nothing.
My great-granddad lived from the 1870s to the mid-1960s. In that time he saw:
* cars introduced.
* planes flying.
* World wars
* telephones
* Jet planes
* nuclear power / weaponry
* Indoor toilets becoming common + labour-saving home devices - e.g. washing machines
* the end of the steam age
* Extension of the right-to-vote to women and others.
* Man in space and (nearly) man on the Moon.
* the pill and sexual liberation (though I doubt he *experienced* that).
+ many more.
We're going through an era of rapid change, but it is nothing like as compressed change as he experienced. My dad was taught to plough with horses; my great-granddad (still alive and healthy) was one of the last captains to be trained professionally to sail sail, steam and diesel ships.
In my 45 years, what have we had? Computers and t'Internet.
Things are changing, but nowhere near with the effect that those changes had, socially and economically.0 -
The Withdrawal Agreement will contain the backstop though, and there will be a political declaration about the future relationship. Plenty of things for people to find objectionable...HYUFD said:
All she will be bringing back is a Withdrawal Agreement and transition period, there will be no Final FTA Deal to vote on, that will be negotiated in the transition periodwilliamglenn said:
What if May brings back a deal and the initial reaction is similar to the reaction to Dave's deal? I don't think a 2 year old referendum mandate will be enough to get it across the line.HYUFD said:Agreed but if it is No Deal Brexit I think EUref2 sooner or later is inevitable, perhaps even before March, with Remain opening up a 10% lead in polls over No Deal that is not sustainable in the way a Canada or Norway style Brexit would be.
0 -
Ah
Ah, I see. Analogous to our conservation areas but without the hundreds of years of architectural heritage to conserve.rpjs said:
They usually are by restrictive covenants.Anazina said:dixiedean said:
Many homeowners associations also insist on plain lawns. No veg growing, or gardens in an English sense. Also for aesthetic reasons...Cyclefree said:
Aesthetic reasons?!rpjs said:
For aesthetic reasons mostly. We're not allowed to fence or hedge in our property as well.Foxy said:
Why?rpjs said:
It's illegal to put your clothes out to dry in many, if not most places, in the US, including where I live.geoffw said:
In 1994 Palo Alto celebrated its centenary and the local rag explained to readers what life was like 100 years ago. One of the astonishing examples of pioneer life was that families hung out their washing on lines to dry.Cyclefree said:
. . .- And washing lines instead of tumble dryers. They appear to have vanished and yet they are free and dry washing far better than expensive dryers.murali_s said:Why do the right-wingers think that the anthropogenic forcing of the climate cannot be reduced or even halted. Just curious to know as this is probably the biggest crisis facing humanity.
. . .
For a country that calls itself the "Land of the Free" the US has a myriad of petty regulations.
Why aren’t there laws banning those obese Americans waddling around the place, then?
A washing line is a thing of great beauty by comparison.
And hedges are great for wildlife.
Honestly, the Americans voting for Trump was bad enough. But this .... well.......it’s the limit.
Presumably homeowners associations’ guidelines aren’t legally enforceable?0 -
Indeed. A green inclined friend of mine received a legal letter when she planted some veg in her backyard. Ironically not visible to anyone not attempting to see.Ishmael_Z said:
They are if the developer sells off plots with restrictive covenants in the sale documents , and presumably also if homeowners voluntarily make such covenants as a condition of joining the association (cue tiresome analogy about the EU).Anazina said:dixiedean said:
Many homeowners associations also insist on plain lawns. No veg growing, or gardens in an English sense. Also for aesthetic reasons...Cyclefree said:
Aesthetic reasons?!rpjs said:
For aesthetic reasons mostly. We're not allowed to fence or hedge in our property as well.Foxy said:
Why?rpjs said:
It's illegal to put your clothes out to dry in many, if not most places, in the US, including where I live.geoffw said:
In 1994 Palo Alto celebrated its centenary and the local rag explained to readers what life was like 100 years ago. One of the astonishing examples of pioneer life was that families hung out their washing on lines to dry.Cyclefree said:
. . .- And washing lines instead of tumble dryers. They appear to have vanished and yet they are free and dry washing far better than expensive dryers.murali_s said:Why do the right-wingers think that the anthropogenic forcing of the climate cannot be reduced or even halted. Just curious to know as this is probably the biggest crisis facing humanity.
. . .
For a country that calls itself the "Land of the Free" the US has a myriad of petty regulations.
Why aren’t there laws banning those obese Americans waddling around the place, then?
A washing line is a thing of great beauty by comparison.
And hedges are great for wildlife.
Honestly, the Americans voting for Trump was bad enough. But this .... well.......it’s the limit.
Presumably homeowners associations’ guidelines aren’t legally enforceable?0 -
Ishmael_Z said:
I read somewhere (though the internet doesn't seem to know about it) that in the Welsh valleys a common tribute to pay to a deceased woman was that "she hung out a lovely wash".Anazina said:On the big debate of the day, we use a washing line all the time. In our suburban London turning, I’d say at least 50% of the houses do. I had no idea it was ‘dying out’? Is it? Tumblers wreck clothes.
I was aware that Americans by and large don’t do it. I had no idea it was illegal in many states.
And why no proper gardens in many American neighbourhoods, the lack of separation of land seems odd to me.
One of the slightly ribald consequences of the English tradition of washing lines is that one’s neighbours are fully abreast of one’s wife’s lingerie collection, without requiring adultery.0 -
I hope you're right, but I think you're wrong for the reasons I state above.Anazina said:Nah. Electric cars will eclipse conventional engines in new sales within 10 years, I think. The concept of filling up a car with fuel then burning it in city centres so people breathe it will soon seem as mad as smoking 20 a day. The tech is already there for most users. Prices will come down readily.
And the tech *isn't* there for most uses - currently cost alone makes it a no-goer.
The exception to this will be if government intervenes and puts big incentives to buy EVs. Which means we'll all pay ...0 -
I fear you are right. TH White put it,John_M said:
Perhaps it just reflects the views of an increasing number of English voters. My view is that the Union is, if not already a dead letter, approaching its death throes.SouthamObserver said:
There’s nothing wrong with it. I just think it’s noteworthy that an avowedly unionist party has so abandoned unionism.tlg86 said:
And what's wrong with that? Would you have opposed a Labour/SNP coalition post-2015?SouthamObserver said:
None of which mitigates the fact that the Conservative and Unionist Party is now the English Nationalist PartyHYUFD said:
Wales of course voted Leave too.SouthamObserver said:The Conservative and Unionist Party has become the English Nationalist Party.
https://twitter.com/peterkgeoghegan/status/1049248523630387201?s=21
Plus that also presumes that Scots will automatically vote Yes to independence after Brexit, that is not certain either, Panelbase had No to independence ahead 52% to 48% yesterday even in the event of No Deal, the hardest of Brexit outcomes
The Destiny of Man is to unite, not to divide. If you keep on dividing you end up as a collection of monkeys throwing nuts at each other out of separate trees.
We have become those monkeys throwing nuts at each other.0 -
A really good solid-state battery is what we need, but progress in battery technology is slow.JosiasJessop said:I honestly cannot see mass-market EVs taking off without a drastic new battery tech - and that'll probably be away from Li-Ion.
(*) There are others, such as safety and longevity.0 -
rpjs said:
I don't think any state has a blanket ban but very many, perhaps most, municipalities do, and if they don't almost anywhere with a homeowners' association, which are almost ubiquitous in some regions, will have it.Anazina said:I was aware that Americans by and large don’t do it. I had no idea it was illegal in many states.
I can’t say I understand what people find so unpleasant about it, if it’s in people’s back gardens. Is it something to do with American prudishness?0 -
The price of new cars has increased at about the same rate as incomes in the past 30 years.TOPPING said:
Analogously to the way they bought their houses. Which were sensibly priced also.rcs1000 said:
And how often do you think people bought new cars without finance back in 1988?TOPPING said:And on cars in general don't get me started on the level of household indebtedness which sees a brand spanking new Evoque outside a two up two down council house. Madness.
Cars are simply unaffordable save for on the never never; as @JosiasJessop says, can anyone but the few imagine paying sixty grand for a car these days unless it's with finance?
Don't believe me, go check out Car & Driver from January 1988, more than 30 years ago, and compare the price of vehicles on a like-for-like basis. A new Ford Taurus then was $15,000, and it's now $25,000.0 -
Yeah. But he didn't get the iPhone.JosiasJessop said:Pah. That's nothing.
My great-granddad lived from the 1870s to the mid-1960s. In that time he saw:
* cars introduced.
* planes flying.
* World wars
* telephones
* Jet planes
* nuclear power / weaponry
* Indoor toilets becoming common + labour-saving home devices - e.g. washing machines
* the end of the steam age
* Extension of the right-to-vote to women and others.
* Man in space and (nearly) man on the Moon.
* the pill and sexual liberation (though I doubt he *experienced* that).
+ many more.
We're going through an era of rapid change, but it is nothing like as compressed change as he experienced. My dad was taught to plough with horses; my great-granddad (still alive and healthy) was one of the last captains to be trained professionally to sail sail, steam and diesel ships.
In my 45 years, what have we had? Computers and t'Internet.
Things are changing, but nowhere near with the effect that those changes had, socially and economically.0 -
Right now this one feels a bit like the 'advance' from the end of Rome to ~ 600 ADJosiasJessop said:and (nearly) man on the Moon.
0 -
My brother attracted two police cars when he mowed his lawn on a Sunday, but it was in Germany!dixiedean said:
Indeed. A green inclined friend of mine received a legal letter when she planted some veg in her backyard. Ironically not visible to anyone not attempting to see.Ishmael_Z said:
They are if the developer sells off plots with restrictive covenants in the sale documents , and presumably also if homeowners voluntarily make such covenants as a condition of joining the association (cue tiresome analogy about the EU).Anazina said:dixiedean said:
Many homeowners associations also insist on plain lawns. No veg growing, or gardens in an English sense. Also for aesthetic reasons...Cyclefree said:
Aesthetic reasons?!rpjs said:
For aesthetic reasons mostly. We're not allowed to fence or hedge in our property as well.Foxy said:
Why?rpjs said:
It's illegal to put your clothes out to dry in many, if not most places, in the US, including where I live.geoffw said:
In 1994 Palo Alto celebrated its centenary and the local rag explained to readers what life was like 100 years ago. One of the astonishing examples of pioneer life was that families hung out their washing on lines to dry.Cyclefree said:
. . .- And washing lines instead of tumble dryers. They appear to have vanished and yet they are free and dry washing far better than expensive dryers.murali_s said:Why do the right-wingers think that the anthropogenic forcing of the climate cannot be reduced or even halted. Just curious to know as this is probably the biggest crisis facing humanity.
. . .
For a country that calls itself the "Land of the Free" the US has a myriad of petty regulations.
Why aren’t there laws banning those obese Americans waddling around the place, then?
A washing line is a thing of great beauty by comparison.
And hedges are great for wildlife.
Honestly, the Americans voting for Trump was bad enough. But this .... well.......it’s the limit.
Presumably homeowners associations’ guidelines aren’t legally enforceable?0 -
I think that's wrong, and the reason is complexity. These systems are *incredibly* complex, and the consequences of them going wrong are massive - and safety is paramount nowadays. It'll come in an exciting dribble, not an ecstatic squirt.SeanT said:
I think we've had a relative 40 year lull in life-changing innovation, but that's only compared to the incredible period that began with the industrial revolution in England. Recall that before then, life barely changed for most of humanity over many many centuries.JosiasJessop said:Pah. That's nothing.
My great-granddad lived from the 1870s to the mid-1960s. In that time he saw:
* cars introduced.
* planes flying.
* World wars
* telephones
* Jet planes
* nuclear power / weaponry
* Indoor toilets becoming common + labour-saving home devices - e.g. washing machines
* the end of the steam age
* Extension of the right-to-vote to women and others.
* Man in space and (nearly) man on the Moon.
* the pill and sexual liberation (though I doubt he *experienced* that).
+ many more.
We're going through an era of rapid change, but it is nothing like as compressed change as he experienced. My dad was taught to plough with horses; my great-granddad (still alive and healthy) was one of the last captains to be trained professionally to sail sail, steam and diesel ships.
In my 45 years, what have we had? Computers and t'Internet.
Things are changing, but nowhere near with the effect that those changes had, socially and economically.
But all the signs are we about to get another burst of truly rapid, bewildering change, from EVs to AR, to VR to AI to Blockchain to wearable tech to driverless vehicles to chips in our heads, on and on and on. It's gonna start coming at us very soon.
And that's leaving aside out susceptibility to another Carrington event.
Basically : the easy changes were those in the industrial revolution. The current changes are incredibly difficult by comparison.0 -
We are all paying for the current set up, poor air quality in cities. Incentives would be a good idea.JosiasJessop said:
I hope you're right, but I think you're wrong for the reasons I state above.Anazina said:Nah. Electric cars will eclipse conventional engines in new sales within 10 years, I think. The concept of filling up a car with fuel then burning it in city centres so people breathe it will soon seem as mad as smoking 20 a day. The tech is already there for most users. Prices will come down readily.
And the tech *isn't* there for most uses - currently cost alone makes it a no-goer.
The exception to this will be if government intervenes and puts big incentives to buy EVs. Which means we'll all pay ...
0 -
Yes. He was a sensible man.rcs1000 said:
Yeah. But he didn't get the iPhone.JosiasJessop said:Pah. That's nothing.
My great-granddad lived from the 1870s to the mid-1960s. In that time he saw:
* cars introduced.
* planes flying.
* World wars
* telephones
* Jet planes
* nuclear power / weaponry
* Indoor toilets becoming common + labour-saving home devices - e.g. washing machines
* the end of the steam age
* Extension of the right-to-vote to women and others.
* Man in space and (nearly) man on the Moon.
* the pill and sexual liberation (though I doubt he *experienced* that).
+ many more.
We're going through an era of rapid change, but it is nothing like as compressed change as he experienced. My dad was taught to plough with horses; my great-granddad (still alive and healthy) was one of the last captains to be trained professionally to sail sail, steam and diesel ships.
In my 45 years, what have we had? Computers and t'Internet.
Things are changing, but nowhere near with the effect that those changes had, socially and economically. 0 -
The change coming from the confluence of IT, big data, nano and synbio will eclipse any change mankind has previously witnessed. The 'natural' world will effectively cease to exist.SeanT said:
I think we've had a relative 40 year lull in life-changing innovation, but that's only compared to the incredible period that began with the industrial revolution in England. Recall that before then, life barely changed for most of humanity over many many centuries.JosiasJessop said:Pah. That's nothing.
My great-granddad lived from the 1870s to the mid-1960s. In that time he saw:
* cars introduced.
* planes flying.
* World wars
* telephones
* Jet planes
* nuclear power / weaponry
* Indoor toilets becoming common + labour-saving home devices - e.g. washing machines
* the end of the steam age
* Extension of the right-to-vote to women and others.
* Man in space and (nearly) man on the Moon.
* the pill and sexual liberation (though I doubt he *experienced* that).
+ many more.
We're going through an era of rapid change, but it is nothing like as compressed change as he experienced. My dad was taught to plough with horses; my great-granddad (still alive and healthy) was one of the last captains to be trained professionally to sail sail, steam and diesel ships.
In my 45 years, what have we had? Computers and t'Internet.
Things are changing, but nowhere near with the effect that those changes had, socially and economically.
But all the signs are we about to get another burst of truly rapid, bewildering change, from EVs to AR, to VR to AI to Blockchain to wearable tech to driverless vehicles to chips in our heads, on and on and on. It's gonna start coming at us very soon.0 -
We've had this argument, and I think my point is a simple one. If the cost/efficiency of electric cars is improving even 1% faster than internal combustion engines (and I think it's improving faster than that, and will continue to improve faster than that), then they will eventually be 100% of the market.JosiasJessop said:You're intelligent enough to know the potential flaws in assuming that trend will continue.
But the point is we're where we were with flash vs HDD's twenty years ago: Flash performs better in many ways, but is vastly more expensive and has other disadvantages. And besides, it's a specious comparison: as you alluded to earlier, the silicon domain is different wrt performance increases - see Moore's Law. Changes in battery chemistry have been *far* slower. In fact, a good proportion of the performance increases we've seen will be down to better knowledge of how a chemistry performs, and of hardware/software that 'drives' the battery in such a way as to maximise performance.
There are three main variables for EV car batteries: energy density, cost, and recharge times (*). It can be like squeezing a balloon: you can alter one, but the other two will often worsen. The question is when we existing chemistries will plateau - in effect when the Li-ion equivalent of Moore's Law will end. Perhaps it won't for a while - or perhaps it will.
I honestly cannot see mass-market EVs taking off without a drastic new battery tech - and that'll probably be away from Li-Ion.
(*) There are others, such as safety and longevity.
There's an old technology saying: things take longer than you think they will, but then become more ubiquitous than you could ever imagine. This is one of those things.0
? 
