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YBarddCwsc said:

AlastairMeeks said:

YBarddCwsc said:

AlastairMeeks said:

As I have pointed out regularly, a remarkable number of Leavers are utterly reckless:

https://twitter.com/PeterKGeoghegan/status/1049248523630387201

How reckless to think of breaking up the country!

And completely different from a bawling Remainer who proposed London Independence in a famous online tantrum after the Referendum, then.

How is the London Independence Party coming on?

London will not indefinitely bankroll reactionary spongers. So I suggest that instead of insulting the bit of the country that props up their prejudices, the craziest Leavers have a good long think about how they're going to reach an accommodation with it.

When I have insulted London?

I merely pointed out the inconsistency of your argument.

There's nothing inconsistent in my argument. London would be well shot of the leeching Leave-voting areas which offer it nothing except a drain on resources and insults. That is a sensible aim in its own right.

Leavers, on the other hand, are willing to destroy the United Kingdom in order to save it. This is unhinged.

Big_G_NorthWales said:

I see my post on climate change on the last thread and the responses has become a topic of conversation on this thread.

While I thought the response to my post from Matt was absurd and could only come from a Londoner the discussion has broadened out somewhat and is very interesting

The wide scale acceptance outside the Metropolitan areas requires a huge price fall and massive increase in the range. Also charging needs to be as quick as filling the tank now.

In addition someone has going to have to explain how the Treasury replaces the huge income from fuel duty and the cost and time scale when 100% EV are on our roads when they presently account for 2%

Missed your Climate Change post, but I agree the cost of cars will have to come down. Electric cars are simpler than internal combustion (although of course nowhere near as developed) so that's likely. Battery technology is progressing (plus super capacitors) and economies of scale should kick in. The question is how long that will take.
I wouldn't worry about taxes, I'm sure the government will think of something.

YBarddCwsc said:

AlastairMeeks said:

YBarddCwsc said:

AlastairMeeks said:

YBarddCwsc said:

AlastairMeeks said:

As I have pointed out regularly, a remarkable number of Leavers are utterly reckless:

https://twitter.com/PeterKGeoghegan/status/1049248523630387201

How reckless to think of breaking up the country!

And completely different from a bawling Remainer who proposed London Independence in a famous online tantrum after the Referendum, then.

How is the London Independence Party coming on?

London will not indefinitely bankroll reactionary spongers. So I suggest that instead of insulting the bit of the country that props up their prejudices, the craziest Leavers have a good long think about how they're going to reach an accommodation with it.

When I have insulted London?

I merely pointed out the inconsistency of your argument.

There's nothing inconsistent in my argument. London would be well shot of the leeching Leave-voting areas which offer it nothing except a drain on resources and insults. That is a sensible aim in its own right.

Leavers, on the other hand, are willing to destroy the United Kingdom in order to save it. This is unhinged.

And when did I insult London, Mr SaffronWalden, Mr Hungary?

I did not insult London. Unless you regard yourself as the embodiment of London, and a slight against Meeks is a slight against the whole of London ... but surely, no.

I'm not sure what you think you are gaining by making your posts personal about me, but it certainly doesn't include my respect.

logical_song said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

I see my post on climate change on the last thread and the responses has become a topic of conversation on this thread.

While I thought the response to my post from Matt was absurd and could only come from a Londoner the discussion has broadened out somewhat and is very interesting

The wide scale acceptance outside the Metropolitan areas requires a huge price fall and massive increase in the range. Also charging needs to be as quick as filling the tank now.

In addition someone has going to have to explain how the Treasury replaces the huge income from fuel duty and the cost and time scale when 100% EV are on our roads when they presently account for 2%

Missed your Climate Change post, but I agree the cost of cars will have to come down. Electric cars are simpler than internal combustion (although of course nowhere near as developed) so that's likely. Battery technology is progressing (plus super capacitors) and economies of scale should kick in. The question is how long that will take.
I wouldn't worry about taxes, I'm sure the government will think of something.

Widescale us of EV will become normal but the time scale is likely to be many years of evolution

AlastairMeeks said:

YBarddCwsc said:

AlastairMeeks said:

As I have pointed out regularly, a remarkable number of Leavers are utterly reckless:

https://twitter.com/PeterKGeoghegan/status/1049248523630387201

How reckless to think of breaking up the country!

And completely different from a bawling Remainer who proposed London Independence in a famous online tantrum after the Referendum, then.

How is the London Independence Party coming on?

London will not indefinitely bankroll reactionary spongers. So I suggest that instead of insulting the bit of the country that props up their prejudices, the craziest Leavers have a good long think about how they're going to reach an accommodation with it.

London does very well out being the capital city of the UK. Without its hinterland, it would be 1920's Vienna or Budapest.

Sean_F said:

AlastairMeeks said:

YBarddCwsc said:

AlastairMeeks said:

As I have pointed out regularly, a remarkable number of Leavers are utterly reckless:

https://twitter.com/PeterKGeoghegan/status/1049248523630387201

How reckless to think of breaking up the country!

And completely different from a bawling Remainer who proposed London Independence in a famous online tantrum after the Referendum, then.

How is the London Independence Party coming on?

London will not indefinitely bankroll reactionary spongers. So I suggest that instead of insulting the bit of the country that props up their prejudices, the craziest Leavers have a good long think about how they're going to reach an accommodation with it.

London does very well out being the capital city of the UK. Without its hinterland, it would be 1920's Vienna or Budapest.

London's hinterland is the whole of Europe. Brexit is a direct assault by the spongers on their golden goose.

AlastairMeeks said:

YBarddCwsc said:

AlastairMeeks said:

YBarddCwsc said:

AlastairMeeks said:

As I have pointed out regularly, a remarkable number of Leavers are utterly reckless:

https://twitter.com/PeterKGeoghegan/status/1049248523630387201

How reckless to think of breaking up the country!

And completely different from a bawling Remainer who proposed London Independence in a famous online tantrum after the Referendum, then.

How is the London Independence Party coming on?

London will not indefinitely bankroll reactionary spongers. So I suggest that instead of insulting the bit of the country that props up their prejudices, the craziest Leavers have a good long think about how they're going to reach an accommodation with it.

When I have insulted London?

I merely pointed out the inconsistency of your argument.

There's nothing inconsistent in my argument. London would be well shot of the leeching Leave-voting areas which offer it nothing except a drain on resources and insults. That is a sensible aim in its own right.

Leavers, on the other hand, are willing to destroy the United Kingdom in order to save it. This is unhinged.

Leave voting areas very often provide the staff who come to work in London. It is a tad hyperbolic to claim that London gets nothing from the country in which it is located. Indeed, the very dominance of London may be one of the problems we have as a country in that we do not have, as many other successful European countries do, strong regional polities and cities and economies. Or not as strong as they might be.

That might be one of the reasons for the Leave vote, of course. But regardless of that I would have thought that a more well-balanced country and economy to be a good thing in itself. Many of the things which make London attractive are also the things which make life in London pretty bloody difficult and stressful unless you have money, lots of it.

Why do the right-wingers think that the anthropogenic forcing of the climate cannot be reduced or even halted. Just curious to know as this is probably the biggest crisis facing humanity.

murali_s said:

Why do the right-wingers think that the anthropogenic forcing of the climate cannot be reduced or even halted. Just curious to know as this is probably the biggest crisis facing humanity.

Bernard Woolley: What if the Prime Minister insists we help them?
Sir Humphrey Appleby: Then we follow the four-stage strategy.
Bernard Woolley: What's that?
Sir Richard Wharton: Standard Foreign Office response in a time of crisis.
Sir Richard Wharton: In stage one we say nothing is going to happen.
Sir Humphrey Appleby: Stage two, we say something may be about to happen, but we should do nothing about it.
Sir Richard Wharton: In stage three, we say that maybe we should do something about it, but there's nothing we *can* do.
Sir Humphrey Appleby: Stage four, we say maybe there was something we could have done, but it's too late now.

Cyclefree said:

AlastairMeeks said:

YBarddCwsc said:

AlastairMeeks said:

YBarddCwsc said:

AlastairMeeks said:

As I have pointed out regularly, a remarkable number of Leavers are utterly reckless:

https://twitter.com/PeterKGeoghegan/status/1049248523630387201

How reckless to think of breaking up the country!

And completely different from a bawling Remainer who proposed London Independence in a famous online tantrum after the Referendum, then.

How is the London Independence Party coming on?

London will not indefinitely bankroll reactionary spongers. So I suggest that instead of insulting the bit of the country that props up their prejudices, the craziest Leavers have a good long think about how they're going to reach an accommodation with it.

When I have insulted London?

I merely pointed out the inconsistency of your argument.

There's nothing inconsistent in my argument. London would be well shot of the leeching Leave-voting areas which offer it nothing except a drain on resources and insults. That is a sensible aim in its own right.

Leavers, on the other hand, are willing to destroy the United Kingdom in order to save it. This is unhinged.

Leave voting areas very often provide the staff who come to work in London. It is a tad hyperbolic to claim that London gets nothing from the country in which it is located. Indeed, the very dominance of London may be one of the problems we have as a country in that we do not have, as many other successful European countries do, strong regional polities and cities and economies. Or not as strong as they might be.

That might be one of the reasons for the Leave vote, of course. But regardless of that I would have thought that a more well-balanced country and economy to be a good thing in itself. Many of the things which make London attractive are also the things which make life in London pretty bloody difficult and stressful unless you have money, lots of it.

Yes, and this happens on a lifetime basis as well as a commuting basis. London (and other cities) suck in young graduates, but often these move out later to more rural or coastal residences, depending on budgets.

Cumbria and Sussex included, so I understand contain a number of ex City types

OblitusSumMe said:

MikeSmithson said:

Beverley_C said:

rcs1000 said:

Re electrical charging points.

We have electrical cables running down every single street in London. It is barely any more difficult to install an electrical charge point than a parking meter.

Over the next 25 years, every urban street will be filled, end-to-end, with electrical charge points. Every supermarket parking space will have one. Every multistory or office car park.

You will be predicting a computer in every home next

Running an electric car and using public charge points can be expensive - sometimes £8 a time. Assuming that gives you 100 miles it is probably not that much cheaper than the petrol for a my Toyota Auris Hybrid which does 60+ MPG

£9.85 at 60mpg, £8.44 at 70mpg with the average fuel price of £1.30 a litre from the latest AA fuel price report.

I'd love to compare the cost of electricity per kWh you were charged to reach £8 a time with the unit cost for domestic supply. Must have been eye-watering.

I can't speak for OGH, but it might be that 'public charge points' have some hefty costs over and above the base leccy price: e.g. the cost of equipment and the ground rental.

These costs would have to be amortised over many users - and given the lack of use of the ones I see around, that must be a hefty addition per user.

Cyclefree said:

murali_s said:

Why do the right-wingers think that the anthropogenic forcing of the climate cannot be reduced or even halted. Just curious to know as this is probably the biggest crisis facing humanity.

I think we could do a lot more to be "green".

- Green roofs, for instance. Good for wildlife and provide insulation. There are loads of flat roofs on terraced houses in London and blocks of flats which could be "greened" in this way.
- Similarly, front gardens with plants in them rather than cars so as to help with water run-off and minimise flooding.
- Water butts all over the place, including underground ones where practical.
- And washing lines instead of tumble dryers. They appear to have vanished and yet they are free and dry washing far better than expensive dryers.
- Community compost heaps in parks. There are sealed ones which are very good at composting, avoid attack by rats and foxes and you don't have to drive to them as you do with recycling centres.
- Guerilla gardening at roundabouts and underplanting of trees in streets with spring bulbs and the rest.
- Bird feeders.
- Making gadgets repairable rather than forcing you to throw them away the minute there is a fault.
- More allotments.
- Not wrapping even the smallest item in bloody plastic so that you need a knife to get at the object you've bought.

Be careful with those bird feeders.

My experience has been it provides “fuel” for an aerial “drop” on my clean, dry washing.

Come on Arlene...

https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1049335636577177600

williamglenn said:

Come on Arlene...

https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1049335636577177600

Arlene Foster meets Michel Barnier instead of Dominic Raab this week. That's a bit of a clue to where power lies at present.

Cyclefree said:

murali_s said:

Why do the right-wingers think that the anthropogenic forcing of the climate cannot be reduced or even halted. Just curious to know as this is probably the biggest crisis facing humanity.

. . .- And washing lines instead of tumble dryers. They appear to have vanished and yet they are free and dry washing far better than expensive dryers.
. . .

In 1994 Palo Alto celebrated its centenary and the local rag explained to readers what life was like 100 years ago. One of the astonishing examples of pioneer life was that families hung out their washing on lines to dry.

MikeSmithson said:

Beverley_C said:

rcs1000 said:

Re electrical charging points.

We have electrical cables running down every single street in London. It is barely any more difficult to install an electrical charge point than a parking meter.

Over the next 25 years, every urban street will be filled, end-to-end, with electrical charge points. Every supermarket parking space will have one. Every multistory or office car park.

You will be predicting a computer in every home next

Running an electric car and using public charge points can be expensive - sometimes £8 a time. Assuming that gives you 100 miles it is probably not that much cheaper than the petrol for a my Toyota Auris Hybrid which does 60+ MPG

It's about £500 to install a home charging point (with government grant).
The new Hyundai has a 65kW battery pack which gives around a 300 mile range.

Cost of (daytime) electricity is (say) 15p per unit including VAT (you could reduce that with a night time rate), so 300 miles costs about a tenner, plus a pound a day over a couple of years to pay for the charging point.

The petrol would be around three times as much ?

Casino_Royale said:

Cyclefree said:

murali_s said:

Why do the right-wingers think that the anthropogenic forcing of the climate cannot be reduced or even halted. Just curious to know as this is probably the biggest crisis facing humanity.

I think we could do a lot more to be "green".

- Green roofs, for instance. Good for wildlife and provide insulation. There are loads of flat roofs on terraced houses in London and blocks of flats which could be "greened" in this way.
- Similarly, front gardens with plants in them rather than cars so as to help with water run-off and minimise flooding.
- Water butts all over the place, including underground ones where practical.
- And washing lines instead of tumble dryers. They appear to have vanished and yet they are free and dry washing far better than expensive dryers.
- Community compost heaps in parks. There are sealed ones which are very good at composting, avoid attack by rats and foxes and you don't have to drive to them as you do with recycling centres.
- Guerilla gardening at roundabouts and underplanting of trees in streets with spring bulbs and the rest.
- Bird feeders.
- Making gadgets repairable rather than forcing you to throw them away the minute there is a fault.
- More allotments.
- Not wrapping even the smallest item in bloody plastic so that you need a knife to get at the object you've bought.

Be careful with those bird feeders.

My experience has been it provides “fuel” for an aerial “drop” on my clean, dry washing.

Since we got bird feeders our cat food bill has dropped dramatically.

geoffw said:

Cyclefree said:

murali_s said:

Why do the right-wingers think that the anthropogenic forcing of the climate cannot be reduced or even halted. Just curious to know as this is probably the biggest crisis facing humanity.

. . .- And washing lines instead of tumble dryers. They appear to have vanished and yet they are free and dry washing far better than expensive dryers.
. . .

In 1994 Palo Alto celebrated its centenary and the local rag explained to readers what life was like 100 years ago. One of the astonishing examples of pioneer life was that families hung out their washing on lines to dry.

I was born and raised a couple of miles away from Willington power stations. Before hanging the washing out to dry, mum would always check the wind direction as any whites might end up with black specks of soot on them.

New ElectoralCalculus forecast based on September polls:

https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/homepage.html

JosiasJessop said:

geoffw said:

Cyclefree said:

murali_s said:

Why do the right-wingers think that the anthropogenic forcing of the climate cannot be reduced or even halted. Just curious to know as this is probably the biggest crisis facing humanity.

. . .- And washing lines instead of tumble dryers. They appear to have vanished and yet they are free and dry washing far better than expensive dryers.
. . .

In 1994 Palo Alto celebrated its centenary and the local rag explained to readers what life was like 100 years ago. One of the astonishing examples of pioneer life was that families hung out their washing on lines to dry.

I was born and raised a couple of miles away from Willington power stations. Before hanging the washing out to dry, mum would always check the wind direction as any whites might end up with black specks of soot on them.

The classic economic "externality" (I believe it's in Marshall's Principles).

JosiasJessop said:

"My point was that it's pretty clear from what is available to buy today, that is won't require any dramatic technological innovations for electric cars to make up the majority of new vehicle registrations within a decade."

Currently, electric cars lack range and cost too much. Currently, batteries are a highly significant proportion of the cost of an electric car. To increase range (and thereby make them more fit for purpose) you have to add more batteries, increasing cost. This makes them less affordable and desirable.

The only way around this cycle is to have technological innovations: such as a dramatic increase in energy density, a super-fast charging capability similar to filling an IC car up, or a decrease in battery cost of an order of magnitude or more.

Lots of companies are promising this, but there is a long road from what works in a lab to what works in a million cars.

Actually, no.

Many households - particularly outside London, or in places like... uh... Los Angeles - have two cars.

In the vast majority of these households, only one car will be used for long trips. The other will be used to do the school run, go to the supermarket, and perhaps a modest commute. The car may well be doing 200 miles a week. But it's doing that at a rate of at most 40 miles a day.

A car with a 200 mile range, that can do longer trips occasionally, but will never be used for a cross country roadtrip, can easily be electric. As it will be plugged in every night, it will mostly be using off peak electricity. This car will have lower maintenance costs than an internal combustion engine. It will have negligible fuel costs. It will be higher performance and more pleasant to drive (more torque, more storage).

Why would anyone choose an internal combustion engine car over an electric one for a second car? I think it's no surprise at all that Tesla Model 3's are outselling other cars in their price range in the US - the BMW 3-series, Audi A4, Mercedes C-class, Lexus IS and Jaguar XE. And when I say outselling, I mean selling more than all those cars combined.

Ishmael_Z said:

murali_s said:

Why do the right-wingers think that the anthropogenic forcing of the climate cannot be reduced or even halted. Just curious to know as this is probably the biggest crisis facing humanity.

You genuinely think that the solubility of a problem varies directly with its magnitude?

Maybe more effort should be dedicated to problems of larger magnitude.

SouthamObserver said:

The Conservative and Unionist Party has become the English Nationalist Party.
https://twitter.com/peterkgeoghegan/status/1049248523630387201?s=21

Wales of course voted Leave too.

Plus that also presumes that Scots will automatically vote Yes to independence after Brexit, that is not certain either, Panelbase had No to independence ahead 52% to 48% yesterday even in the event of No Deal, the hardest of Brexit outcomes

rcs1000 said:

JosiasJessop said:

"My point was that it's pretty clear from what is available to buy today, that is won't require any dramatic technological innovations for electric cars to make up the majority of new vehicle registrations within a decade."

Currently, electric cars lack range and cost too much. Currently, batteries are a highly significant proportion of the cost of an electric car. To increase range (and thereby make them more fit for purpose) you have to add more batteries, increasing cost. This makes them less affordable and desirable.

The only way around this cycle is to have technological innovations: such as a dramatic increase in energy density, a super-fast charging capability similar to filling an IC car up, or a decrease in battery cost of an order of magnitude or more.

Lots of companies are promising this, but there is a long road from what works in a lab to what works in a million cars.

Actually, no.

Many households - particularly outside London, or in places like... uh... Los Angeles - have two cars.

In the vast majority of these households, only one car will be used for long trips. The other will be used to do the school run, go to the supermarket, and perhaps a modest commute. The car may well be doing 200 miles a week. But it's doing that at a rate of at most 40 miles a day.

A car with a 200 mile range, that can do longer trips occasionally, but will never be used for a cross country roadtrip, can easily be electric. As it will be plugged in every night, it will mostly be using off peak electricity. This car will have lower maintenance costs than an internal combustion engine. It will have negligible fuel costs. It will be higher performance and more pleasant to drive (more torque, more storage).

Why would anyone choose an internal combustion engine car over an electric one for a second car? I think it's no surprise at all that Tesla Model 3's are outselling other cars in their price range in the US - the BMW 3-series, Audi A4, Mercedes C-class, Lexus IS and Jaguar XE. And when I say outselling, I mean selling more than all those cars combined.

Tesla Model 3's cost an absolute fortune, and are nowhere near the promised price - if they don't reduce it soon I'll start calling it a classic bait-and-switch.

You have a point about second cars, but the original quote was about the majority of new car registrations - and they're not second cars by definition.

Most people aren't rich. for those of us who are not, there are lots of negatives to EVs at the current time. I look forward to those negatives being addressed, but we're nowhere near that atm.

geoffw said:

Cyclefree said:

murali_s said:

Why do the right-wingers think that the anthropogenic forcing of the climate cannot be reduced or even halted. Just curious to know as this is probably the biggest crisis facing humanity.

. . .- And washing lines instead of tumble dryers. They appear to have vanished and yet they are free and dry washing far better than expensive dryers.
. . .

In 1994 Palo Alto celebrated its centenary and the local rag explained to readers what life was like 100 years ago. One of the astonishing examples of pioneer life was that families hung out their washing on lines to dry.

WE still use washing line when weather permits, washing smells so much better. Need tumble dryer though as backup.

Ishmael_Z said:

murali_s said:

Why do the right-wingers think that the anthropogenic forcing of the climate cannot be reduced or even halted. Just curious to know as this is probably the biggest crisis facing humanity.

You genuinely think that the solubility of a problem varies directly with its magnitude?

You'd really have to go out of your way to deliberately misinterpret that comment like that. The "as" makes it very clear he's saying that the magnitude of the crisis is why he wants to know, not a reason to think it's soluble.

HYUFD said:

SouthamObserver said:

The Conservative and Unionist Party has become the English Nationalist Party.
https://twitter.com/peterkgeoghegan/status/1049248523630387201?s=21

Wales of course voted Leave too.

Plus that also presumes that Scots will automatically vote Yes to independence after Brexit, that is not certain either, Panelbase had No to independence ahead 52% to 48% yesterday even in the event of No Deal, the hardest of Brexit outcomes

None of which mitigates the fact that the Conservative and Unionist Party is now the English Nationalist Party

SouthamObserver said:

HYUFD said:

SouthamObserver said:

The Conservative and Unionist Party has become the English Nationalist Party.
https://twitter.com/peterkgeoghegan/status/1049248523630387201?s=21

Wales of course voted Leave too.

Plus that also presumes that Scots will automatically vote Yes to independence after Brexit, that is not certain either, Panelbase had No to independence ahead 52% to 48% yesterday even in the event of No Deal, the hardest of Brexit outcomes

None of which mitigates the fact that the Conservative and Unionist Party is now the English Nationalist Party

And what's wrong with that? Would you have opposed a Labour/SNP coalition post-2015?

tlg86 said:

SouthamObserver said:

HYUFD said:

SouthamObserver said:

The Conservative and Unionist Party has become the English Nationalist Party.
https://twitter.com/peterkgeoghegan/status/1049248523630387201?s=21

Wales of course voted Leave too.

Plus that also presumes that Scots will automatically vote Yes to independence after Brexit, that is not certain either, Panelbase had No to independence ahead 52% to 48% yesterday even in the event of No Deal, the hardest of Brexit outcomes

None of which mitigates the fact that the Conservative and Unionist Party is now the English Nationalist Party

And what's wrong with that? Would you have opposed a Labour/SNP coalition post-2015?

There’s nothing wrong with it. I just think it’s noteworthy that an avowedly unionist party has so abandoned unionism.

SouthamObserver said:

tlg86 said:

SouthamObserver said:

HYUFD said:

SouthamObserver said:

The Conservative and Unionist Party has become the English Nationalist Party.
https://twitter.com/peterkgeoghegan/status/1049248523630387201?s=21

Wales of course voted Leave too.

Plus that also presumes that Scots will automatically vote Yes to independence after Brexit, that is not certain either, Panelbase had No to independence ahead 52% to 48% yesterday even in the event of No Deal, the hardest of Brexit outcomes

None of which mitigates the fact that the Conservative and Unionist Party is now the English Nationalist Party

And what's wrong with that? Would you have opposed a Labour/SNP coalition post-2015?

There’s nothing wrong with it. I just think it’s noteworthy that an avowedly unionist party has so abandoned unionism.

To be fair to the Tories - and I don't like being fair to them - it's the voters that have moved that way, mostly as a reaction to asymmetrical devolution. One of the worst moments of the EU referendum for Remain in my opinion was the appearance of Nicola Sturgeon on the ITV debate. A terrible decision to put her on a GB broadcast.

Bromptonaut said:

notme said:

Bromptonaut said:

MikeSmithson said:

Nigelb said:

MikeSmithson said:

Beverley_C said:

rcs1000 said:

Re electrical charging points.

We have electrical cables running down every single street in London. It is barely any more difficult to install an electrical charge point than a parking meter.

Over the next 25 years, every urban street will be filled, end-to-end, with electrical charge points. Every supermarket parking space will have one. Every multistory or office car park.

You will be predicting a computer in every home next

Running an electric car and using public charge points can be expensive - sometimes £8 a time. Assuming that gives you 100 miles it is probably not that much cheaper than the petrol for a my Toyota Auris Hybrid which does 60+ MPG

It's about £500 to install a home charging point (with government grant).
The new Hyundai has a 65kW battery pack which gives around a 300 mile range.

Cost of (daytime) electricity is (say) 15p per unit including VAT (you could reduce that with a night time rate), so 300 miles costs about a tenner, plus a pound a day over a couple of years to pay for the charging point.

The petrol would be around three times as much ?

But you don't have the capital outlay of the charging unit. My petrol bill for the year is about £730 and the range of my car is just under 600 miles - two or three times better than an EV.

When EVs are the cars of choice for UBER drivers then you'll know they've arrived.

Not Ubers yet...but black cabs yes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOxnJQP2_0E

Thats just a hybrid with a 20 mile range battery. Is it not?

Just? Cabbies will charge as often as possible to maximise electric miles. More electric miles means better air means healthier Londoners.

Where will they charge?

murali_s said:

Ishmael_Z said:

murali_s said:

TGOHF said:

murali_s said:

Why do the right-wingers think that the anthropogenic forcing of the climate cannot be reduced or even halted. Just curious to know as this is probably the biggest crisis facing humanity.

Even if it could and AGW was really a thing - skipping a burger or two isn't worth the effort when China is going coal crazy.

https://www.chinadialogue.net/blog/10761-China-is-building-coal-power-again/en

"Satellite imagery reveals that many coal-fired power projects that were halted by the Chinese government have quietly

So forgive me if I have a delicious steak for tea tonight without the slightest pang of guilt.

LOLz

Typical response from a right-wing fruitcake. What price facts and knowledge?

"Even if it could and AGW was really a thing" HAHAHAHAHA

Science is apolitical, and incompetent invective does not win arguments. Why not make your first ever adult and substantive post and state your position on the apparent facts which have been offered to you? In case you don't know how to google, here's a link: coalswarm.org

Look here, AGW is a fact. The Earth is warming and warming alarmingly. The CO2 hypothesis is the only one that holds water. Pretty much everyone with half a brain buys into it. Yes, there is uncertainty to the rate of warming and with these things there is unlikely to be a linear projection as the human fingerprint is superimposed on the natural variability of the climate.

The deniers of which there are only a handful these days cannot come up with a sound scientific explanation why the globe has warmed over the last 150 years.

2019 will most likely to another top 3 year - no surprises there I guess.

You link in a mickey-mouse website, I'll give you a link to a world acclaimed institution. Go educate yourself - you might learn something my friend.

https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/climate-guide

You make your argument but why hector posters

Climate change is with us but the argument has to be that without worldwide agreement the heavy lifting will not be present. Trump and Putin are not interested and there are so many conflicts and divisive politics I just do not see co-ordinated responses.

I am sure individual countries will green their economies where there is the political will and their electorate accept the cost.

I do expect the UK will develop further solar and wind power plus EV but it is a long term project, not the 10 years mentioned today

geoffw said:

Cyclefree said:

murali_s said:

Why do the right-wingers think that the anthropogenic forcing of the climate cannot be reduced or even halted. Just curious to know as this is probably the biggest crisis facing humanity.

. . .- And washing lines instead of tumble dryers. They appear to have vanished and yet they are free and dry washing far better than expensive dryers.
. . .

In 1994 Palo Alto celebrated its centenary and the local rag explained to readers what life was like 100 years ago. One of the astonishing examples of pioneer life was that families hung out their washing on lines to dry.

It's illegal to put your clothes out to dry in many, if not most places, in the US, including where I live.

rpjs said:

geoffw said:

Cyclefree said:

murali_s said:

Why do the right-wingers think that the anthropogenic forcing of the climate cannot be reduced or even halted. Just curious to know as this is probably the biggest crisis facing humanity.

. . .- And washing lines instead of tumble dryers. They appear to have vanished and yet they are free and dry washing far better than expensive dryers.
. . .

In 1994 Palo Alto celebrated its centenary and the local rag explained to readers what life was like 100 years ago. One of the astonishing examples of pioneer life was that families hung out their washing on lines to dry.

It's illegal to put your clothes out to dry in many, if not most places, in the US, including where I live.

Thanks, I didn't know that. Why is it illegal?

Bromptonaut said:

JosiasJessop said:

Bromptonaut said:

notme said:

Bromptonaut said:

MikeSmithson said:

Nigelb said:

MikeSmithson said:

Beverley_C said:

rcs1000 said:

Re electrical charging points.

We have electrical cables running down every single street in London. It is barely any more difficult to install an electrical charge point than a parking meter.

Over the next 25 years, every urban street will be filled, end-to-end, with electrical charge points. Every supermarket parking space will have one. Every multistory or office car park.

You will be predicting a computer in every home next

Running an electric car and using public charge points can be expensive - sometimes £8 a time. Assuming that gives you 100 miles it is probably not that much cheaper than the petrol for a my Toyota Auris Hybrid which does 60+ MPG

It's about £500 to install a home charging point (with government grant).
The new Hyundai has a 65kW battery pack which gives around a 300 mile range.

Cost of (daytime) electricity is (say) 15p per unit including VAT (you could reduce that with a night time rate), so 300 miles costs about a tenner, plus a pound a day over a couple of years to pay for the charging point.

The petrol would be around three times as much ?

But you don't have the capital outlay of the charging unit. My petrol bill for the year is about £730 and the range of my car is just under 600 miles - two or three times better than an EV.

When EVs are the cars of choice for UBER drivers then you'll know they've arrived.

Not Ubers yet...but black cabs yes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOxnJQP2_0E

Thats just a hybrid with a 20 mile range battery. Is it not?

Just? Cabbies will charge as often as possible to maximise electric miles. More electric miles means better air means healthier Londoners.

Where will they charge?

https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/electric-vehicles-and-rapid-charging#on-this-page-6

Thanks for that.

I'm unsure even that would fit in with the standard back cab duty cycle - and why is the taxpayer paying for what is an advantage for the cabbie?

rpjs said:

Foxy said:

rpjs said:

geoffw said:

Cyclefree said:

murali_s said:

Why do the right-wingers think that the anthropogenic forcing of the climate cannot be reduced or even halted. Just curious to know as this is probably the biggest crisis facing humanity.

. . .- And washing lines instead of tumble dryers. They appear to have vanished and yet they are free and dry washing far better than expensive dryers.
. . .

In 1994 Palo Alto celebrated its centenary and the local rag explained to readers what life was like 100 years ago. One of the astonishing examples of pioneer life was that families hung out their washing on lines to dry.

It's illegal to put your clothes out to dry in many, if not most places, in the US, including where I live.

Why?

For aesthetic reasons mostly. We're not allowed to fence or hedge in our property as well.

For a country that calls itself the "Land of the Free" the US has a myriad of petty regulations.

Don't good fences make good neighbours? I have always thought that is a very American insight .

OT Google is closing google+ after a data breach and may be in trouble for keeping schtum about vulnerabilities.

Bromptonaut said:

MikeSmithson said:

Nigelb said:

MikeSmithson said:

Beverley_C said:

rcs1000 said:

Re electrical charging points.

We have electrical cables running down every single street in London. It is barely any more difficult to install an electrical charge point than a parking meter.

Over the next 25 years, every urban street will be filled, end-to-end, with electrical charge points. Every supermarket parking space will have one. Every multistory or office car park.

You will be predicting a computer in every home next

Running an electric car and using public charge points can be expensive - sometimes £8 a time. Assuming that gives you 100 miles it is probably not that much cheaper than the petrol for a my Toyota Auris Hybrid which does 60+ MPG

It's about £500 to install a home charging point (with government grant).
The new Hyundai has a 65kW battery pack which gives around a 300 mile range.

Cost of (daytime) electricity is (say) 15p per unit including VAT (you could reduce that with a night time rate), so 300 miles costs about a tenner, plus a pound a day over a couple of years to pay for the charging point.

The petrol would be around three times as much ?

But you don't have the capital outlay of the charging unit. My petrol bill for the year is about £730 and the range of my car is just under 600 miles - two or three times better than an EV.

When EVs are the cars of choice for UBER drivers then you'll know they've arrived.

Not Ubers yet...but black cabs yes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOxnJQP2_0E

In LA, I've had electric Ubers a bunch of times