politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » LAB plan to give free bus travel to those of 25 and younger
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The Nottingham trams are fab. But again they are a good idea poorly managed. Part of the cost of running the trams is raised by a car parking charge on companies and businesses within Nottingham. In the case of Boots the nearest tram stop is a 20 minute walk from the nearest entrance to the factory complex and the trams really only run into and out of Nottingham city centre. This means that for the vast majority of the 7500 employees they are of no use at all. And yet they are now paying an extra £200 each a year for their car parking spaces as the company cannot afford to cover the £1.3 million levy it has to pay each year.ydoethur said:
I'm sure she's wrong. Surely we'd have heard if the buses were being repeatedly hit by trams? The old Elf 'n Safety mob would have been on the case...rottenborough said:https://twitter.com/Anna_Soubry/status/984364460272996352
Not sure Anna is right on this one.
And of course a if you do want to use the tram is still £500 a year for each person buying a season ticket.
Effectively all that has happened is they have increased the cost of going to work substantially for everyone who works at Boots.0 -
Norman Lamb had a stroke
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/04/12/former-health-minister-norman-lamb-blames-long-working-hours/
Doesn't sound like a bye election imminent - but will he stand in 2022 ?0 -
So she's saying they'll get it now when they need it, and pay for it later when they have higher earnings and can afford it?rottenborough said:https://twitter.com/Anna_Soubry/status/984364460272996352
Not sure Anna is right on this one.0 -
Yad Vashem and the Simon Wiesenthal Centre still lionise Greville Janner for his actions over a suspected Nazi war criminal called Szymon Serafinowicz.TheScreamingEagles said:
All parties implicated thoughTGOHF said:
Labour council leader , Labour.FrancisUrquhart said:Rochdale’s recently resigned council leader is facing a police investigation after an official inquiry concluded that he lied over evidence he gave about child sexual abuse allegations.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/apr/12/resigned-rochdale-council-leader-richard-farnell-lied-to-child-abuse-inquiry
The report also criticised Margaret Thatcher’s “remarkable” decision to award a knighthood to the suspected child abuser Cyril Smith. It said the knighthood in 1988 showed the “unwillingness of those at the highest level” to believe his victims.
Suggesting that given at the time he was doing this he was also under investigation for alleged sex crimes it might be wiser to soft-pedal his role so angered an official of the Center that for moment I thought he was actually going to hit me.0 -
I think Blair may have started the convention - or possibly even Major: there was certainly a vote on something before the Gulf War.rottenborough said:
No. There is no rule that says Parliament votes on this kind of thing. Royal prerogative.Danny565 said:
Isn't this a bit like saying "what was the point in Gordon Brown holding an election in 2010, when he was going to lose it"?rottenborough said:
Er, because Parliament wouldn't give approval?Cyclefree said:The bus policy looks superficially attractive but there could be confusion if someone gets on and is told that this is the wrong type of bus for free travel.
Still it succeeds in casting Corbyn as in favour of the young and the Tories not so may work in the short term. Whether it is a sensible use of money is another matter.
On Syria, what would be the point of the UK joining any military action and what would be the plan? I hope May does not overplay her hand and I don’t see that there is anything wrong with getting Parliamentary approval first.
Cameron started a convention, which May could ignore.
May could ignore the convention but it would be stupid politics as there'd be a vote sooner or later anyway.0 -
I meant her bit about kids doing the maths!JosiasJessop said:
This isn't an area I've looked into deeply, but she might be.rottenborough said:https://twitter.com/Anna_Soubry/status/984364460272996352
Not sure Anna is right on this one.
AIUI the Nottingham tram is losing many millions per year in running costs (citation required), and with the recent western extension, it is important for it to be seen as a success. Therefore price the rides so more people go on t'tram than t'bus, especially as both services probably get council subsidies.
Then there's the issue of the budget not being infinite, and the money spent subsidising the tram might be coming from services that would otherwise run to settlements away from the tram network.0 -
Hope he makes a full recovery.TGOHF said:Norman Lamb had a stroke
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/04/12/former-health-minister-norman-lamb-blames-long-working-hours/
Doesn't sound like a bye election imminent - but will he stand in 2022 ?
The LibDems can probably wave goodbye to the seat - Lamb is immensely personally popular.0 -
Interesting point. Quite possibly yes, it would (if EU law still applied).TGOHF said:
Perhaps an expert on EU laws can clarify if this will constitute state aid ?CarlottaVance said:But is it more about municipalising buses than helping the young?
Rumbled.....
I doubt it's been thought through in this detail but if there was such a ruling, the government could regulate all bus services to be brought within state control - though there'd have to be compensation paid, I'd have thought.0 -
Bet365 are doing their 1/2 stakes back offer on the national each way bets. It is a very +EV offer and for existing customers, which is rare as rocking horse shit in the betting world.0
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Agree entirely. I do not object in principle to the use of force to achieve a limited, specific aim with a reasonable chance of success (whilst accepting that nothing is ever certain). I object to it being used as a system of armed virtue signalling which will actually do nothing at all to resolve the situation in Syria nor prevent future CW attacks. Indeed all it will do is make a bad situation worse both for the people on the ground and the Arab view of the West. We do nothing but drive more and more people into the arms of the Russians.Danny565 said:I can't for the life of me understand what people think a full military campaign in Syria is going to achieve. What is it actually going to achieve, other than giving ISIS (or something similar) a way back? Are the people who will be killed by Western air strikes somehow more justified than the deaths caused by Assad's bombs?
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Sky News Breaking - @SkyNewsBreak: Labour has suspended serving Rochdale councillor Richard Farnell after the Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse concluded that the ex-council leader lied during his evidence last year0
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You Tory fanboys are easily convinced when it is your side lying through their teeth and as ever via the British Broadcasting Propaganda Service.TheScreamingEagles said:
Forget Iraq, Blair's worst mistake was making Craig Murray an Ambassador.FrancisUrquhart said:
Tin foil hats at the ready...CarlottaVance said:twitter.com/EliotHiggins/status/984391189469319168
twitter.com/RTUKnews/status/984390008739115008
https://twitter.com/CraigMurrayOrg/status/984391677040308225
https://twitter.com/CraigMurrayOrg/status/984390112174919685
https://twitter.com/CraigMurrayOrg/status/9843814943271690250 -
Much of the money is, as I mentioned, coming fro a levy on businesses, even when they are well away from the Trams and so cannot benefit.JosiasJessop said:
This isn't an area I've looked into deeply, but she might be.rottenborough said:https://twitter.com/Anna_Soubry/status/984364460272996352
Not sure Anna is right on this one.
AIUI the Nottingham tram is losing many millions per year in running costs (citation below), and with the recent western extension, it is important for it to be seen as a success. Therefore price the rides so more people go on t'tram than t'bus, especially as both services probably get council subsidies.
Then there's the issue of the budget not being infinite, and the money spent subsidising the tram might be coming from services that would otherwise run to settlements away from the tram network.
Edit: http://www.railtechnologymagazine.com/Rail-News/nottingham-tram-operator-records-losses-of-48m-following-network-expansion0 -
Since the only aim that would make sense in the circumstances is the deposition/elimination of Assad, and since that cannot realistically be achieved by the means under discussion it is indeed difficult to see what the point of military action would be.Richard_Tyndall said:
Agree entirely. I do not object in principle to the use of force to achieve a limited, specific aim with a reasonable chance of success (whilst accepting that nothing is ever certain). I object to it being used as a system of armed virtue signalling which will actually do nothing at all to resolve the situation in Syria nor prevent future CW attacks. Indeed all it will do is make a bad situation worse both for the people on the ground and the Arab view of the West. We do nothing but drive more and more people into the arms of the Russians.Danny565 said:I can't for the life of me understand what people think a full military campaign in Syria is going to achieve. What is it actually going to achieve, other than giving ISIS (or something similar) a way back? Are the people who will be killed by Western air strikes somehow more justified than the deaths caused by Assad's bombs?
A better response would surely be to freeze his assets if they can be traced,0 -
On topic, it's good politics and poor policy from Labour. It'll work well for them unless they end up having to implement it.
As an aside, free bus passes for the elderly are also a bad idea but it's a bad idea whose monetary cost is less than the political cost of scrapping it.0 -
British Airways-owner IAG has taken a near-5pc stake in Norwegian Air Shuttle with a view to buying the budget airline.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2018/04/12/british-airways-owner-iag-swoops-rival-norwegian-air-shuttle/0 -
Well her experts told her not to give Jimmy Savile a knighthood.TGOHF said:
She perhaps shouldn't have listened to her "experts" ?TheScreamingEagles said:
All parties implicated thoughTGOHF said:
Labour council leader , Labour.FrancisUrquhart said:Rochdale’s recently resigned council leader is facing a police investigation after an official inquiry concluded that he lied over evidence he gave about child sexual abuse allegations.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/apr/12/resigned-rochdale-council-leader-richard-farnell-lied-to-child-abuse-inquiry
The report also criticised Margaret Thatcher’s “remarkable” decision to award a knighthood to the suspected child abuser Cyril Smith. It said the knighthood in 1988 showed the “unwillingness of those at the highest level” to believe his victims.
She also knighted Peter Morrison in her resignation honours.0 -
I am sure there will also be lots of "accidental" misrepresentation (that it will apply to all buses) of it just like the student loan non-promise.david_herdson said:On topic, it's good politics and poor policy from Labour. It'll work well for them unless they end up having to implement it.
As an aside, free bus passes for the elderly are also a bad idea but it's a bad idea whose monetary cost is less than the political cost of scrapping it.0 -
Indeed. Much of, not all of.Richard_Tyndall said:
Much of the money is, as I mentioned, coming fro a levy on businesses, even when they are well away from the Trams and so cannot benefit.JosiasJessop said:
This isn't an area I've looked into deeply, but she might be.rottenborough said:https://twitter.com/Anna_Soubry/status/984364460272996352
Not sure Anna is right on this one.
AIUI the Nottingham tram is losing many millions per year in running costs (citation below), and with the recent western extension, it is important for it to be seen as a success. Therefore price the rides so more people go on t'tram than t'bus, especially as both services probably get council subsidies.
Then there's the issue of the budget not being infinite, and the money spent subsidising the tram might be coming from services that would otherwise run to settlements away from the tram network.
Edit: http://www.railtechnologymagazine.com/Rail-News/nottingham-tram-operator-records-losses-of-48m-following-network-expansion
The problem with the tram network in Nottingham is that it's not big enough to be a comprehensive system to replace or displace other public transport, and yet still costs a great amount of money to run that could improve those other services. Witness also Edinburgh. From my limited knowledge, I'd argue Manchester have got it much more right, and Sheffield less so (and they got lucky with Meadowhall).
On another note, Sheffield will soon be getting a new concept: the tram-train, where trams continue on along Network Rail metals. It's delayed and cost more than expected, but it is an interesting development.
http://www.sypte.co.uk/tramtrain/0 -
Guy I work with was telling me recently that it was a nightmare, constant accidents with cars hitting trams and causing mayhem with traffic as they come off the line and takes hours to get cranes to get them lifted back on etc. Says he is regularly stuck in traffic jams due to it.ydoethur said:
I'm sure she's wrong. Surely we'd have heard if the buses were being repeatedly hit by trams? The old Elf 'n Safety mob would have been on the case...rottenborough said:https://twitter.com/Anna_Soubry/status/984364460272996352
Not sure Anna is right on this one.0 -
His assets will be in Moscow, if the Russians have any sense.ydoethur said:
Since the only aim that would make sense in the circumstances is the deposition/elimination of Assad, and since that cannot realistically be achieved by the means under discussion it is indeed difficult to see what the point of military action would be.Richard_Tyndall said:
Agree entirely. I do not object in principle to the use of force to achieve a limited, specific aim with a reasonable chance of success (whilst accepting that nothing is ever certain). I object to it being used as a system of armed virtue signalling which will actually do nothing at all to resolve the situation in Syria nor prevent future CW attacks. Indeed all it will do is make a bad situation worse both for the people on the ground and the Arab view of the West. We do nothing but drive more and more people into the arms of the Russians.Danny565 said:I can't for the life of me understand what people think a full military campaign in Syria is going to achieve. What is it actually going to achieve, other than giving ISIS (or something similar) a way back? Are the people who will be killed by Western air strikes somehow more justified than the deaths caused by Assad's bombs?
A better response would surely be to freeze his assets if they can be traced,0 -
Don't get me wrong, I love trams and I love the fact they have the system in Nottingham. But of course I am not one of those having to pay large sums to support it as I only use it when I visit. I do think that such systems should, by and large, be self financing. And certainly asking companies to pay such large sums when they and their employees get little or no benefit seems very poor.JosiasJessop said:
Indeed. Much of, not all of.Richard_Tyndall said:
Much of the money is, as I mentioned, coming fro a levy on businesses, even when they are well away from the Trams and so cannot benefit.JosiasJessop said:
This isn't an area I've looked into deeply, but she might be.rottenborough said:https://twitter.com/Anna_Soubry/status/984364460272996352
Not sure Anna is right on this one.
AIUI the Nottingham tram is losing many millions per year in running costs (citation below), and with the recent western extension, it is important for it to be seen as a success. Therefore price the rides so more people go on t'tram than t'bus, especially as both services probably get council subsidies.
Then there's the issue of the budget not being infinite, and the money spent subsidising the tram might be coming from services that would otherwise run to settlements away from the tram network.
Edit: http://www.railtechnologymagazine.com/Rail-News/nottingham-tram-operator-records-losses-of-48m-following-network-expansion
The problem with the tram network in Nottingham is that it's not big enough to be a comprehensive system to replace or displace other public transport, and yet still costs a great amount of money to run that could improve those other services. Witness also Edinburgh. From my limited knowledge, I'd argue Manchester have got it much more right, and Sheffield less so (and they got lucky with Meadowhall).
On another note, Sheffield will soon be getting a new concept: the tram-train, where trams continue on along Network Rail metals. It's delayed and cost more than expected, but it is an interesting development.
http://www.sypte.co.uk/tramtrain/0 -
So we can be fairly sure they're not in Moscow in light of the last two months?david_herdson said:
His assets will be in Moscow, if the Russians have any sense.ydoethur said:
Since the only aim that would make sense in the circumstances is the deposition/elimination of Assad, and since that cannot realistically be achieved by the means under discussion it is indeed difficult to see what the point of military action would be.Richard_Tyndall said:
Agree entirely. I do not object in principle to the use of force to achieve a limited, specific aim with a reasonable chance of success (whilst accepting that nothing is ever certain). I object to it being used as a system of armed virtue signalling which will actually do nothing at all to resolve the situation in Syria nor prevent future CW attacks. Indeed all it will do is make a bad situation worse both for the people on the ground and the Arab view of the West. We do nothing but drive more and more people into the arms of the Russians.Danny565 said:I can't for the life of me understand what people think a full military campaign in Syria is going to achieve. What is it actually going to achieve, other than giving ISIS (or something similar) a way back? Are the people who will be killed by Western air strikes somehow more justified than the deaths caused by Assad's bombs?
A better response would surely be to freeze his assets if they can be traced,
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It sounds a completely resolved transient event. I suspect he will carry on in the Constituency, but will not stand for leader again.TheWhiteRabbit said:
Hope he makes a full recovery.TGOHF said:Norman Lamb had a stroke
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/04/12/former-health-minister-norman-lamb-blames-long-working-hours/
Doesn't sound like a bye election imminent - but will he stand in 2022 ?
The LibDems can probably wave goodbye to the seat - Lamb is immensely personally popular.0 -
It provides the chemical composition identified as Novichok in the classified part of the report which is to be sent to all member countries and states it was pure and only able to be produced by a nation state. It was not included by name in the summary not to provide detail of its compositionCarlottaVance said:0 -
I don't fundamentally disagree with that. I think that there are 2 arguments.Richard_Tyndall said:
Agree entirely. I do not object in principle to the use of force to achieve a limited, specific aim with a reasonable chance of success (whilst accepting that nothing is ever certain). I object to it being used as a system of armed virtue signalling which will actually do nothing at all to resolve the situation in Syria nor prevent future CW attacks. Indeed all it will do is make a bad situation worse both for the people on the ground and the Arab view of the West. We do nothing but drive more and more people into the arms of the Russians.Danny565 said:I can't for the life of me understand what people think a full military campaign in Syria is going to achieve. What is it actually going to achieve, other than giving ISIS (or something similar) a way back? Are the people who will be killed by Western air strikes somehow more justified than the deaths caused by Assad's bombs?
1. We have drawn a red line on the use of chemical weapons. If you use them there are consequences. So we need to have a consequence. Not one that is going to materially change the war (which Assad has already won) but consequences that hurt.
2. The principal target for such consequences really should be those responsible not the poor schmuck who was doing what he was told under threat of death. So we should aim for Assad, his generals and commanders personally rather than airfields or abandoned chemical weapons factories. But we probably won't because it is more difficult and there are greater risks of collateral casualties.
I think the first argument just about justifies some action here, particularly if the second argument/option is feasible.0 -
I've never actually travelled on the Nottingham system. I have a dear friend who lives in Nottingham's eastern suburbs, and the tram system is a much use to her a chocolate teapot. We always either drive or use the park and ride, and there's little point in using the trams for our visits shopping in the centre. Despite there being an old railway line clear (although unusable at current) virtually behind her house.Richard_Tyndall said:
Don't get me wrong, I love trams and I love the fact they have the system in Nottingham. But of course I am not one of those having to pay large sums to support it as I only use it when I visit. I do think that such systems should, by and large, be self financing. And certainly asking companies to pay such large sums when they and their employees get little or no benefit seems very poor.JosiasJessop said:
Indeed. Much of, not all of.Richard_Tyndall said:
Much of the money is, as I mentioned, coming fro a levy on businesses, even when they are well away from the Trams and so cannot benefit.JosiasJessop said:
This isn't an area I've looked into deeply, but she might be.rottenborough said:https://twitter.com/Anna_Soubry/status/984364460272996352
Not sure Anna is right on this one.
AIUI the Nottingham tram is losing many millions per year in running costs (citation below), and with the recent western extension, it is important for it to be seen as a success. Therefore price the rides so more people go on t'tram than t'bus, especially as both services probably get council subsidies.
Then there's the issue of the budget not being infinite, and the money spent subsidising the tram might be coming from services that would otherwise run to settlements away from the tram network.
Edit: http://www.railtechnologymagazine.com/Rail-News/nottingham-tram-operator-records-losses-of-48m-following-network-expansion
The problem with the tram network in Nottingham is that it's not big enough to be a comprehensive system to replace or displace other public transport, and yet still costs a great amount of money to run that could improve those other services. Witness also Edinburgh. From my limited knowledge, I'd argue Manchester have got it much more right, and Sheffield less so (and they got lucky with Meadowhall).
On another note, Sheffield will soon be getting a new concept: the tram-train, where trams continue on along Network Rail metals. It's delayed and cost more than expected, but it is an interesting development.
http://www.sypte.co.uk/tramtrain/
I keep on meaning to plan a walk around the network, using the trams to get back, but my walking time's strictly limited atm ...0 -
You wonder how Craig Murray got to be UK ambassador. I know,, a figurative (and almost literal - they're next door) posting to Siberia. But still.FrancisUrquhart said:
Tin foil hats at the ready...CarlottaVance said:twitter.com/EliotHiggins/status/984391189469319168
twitter.com/RTUKnews/status/984390008739115008
https://twitter.com/CraigMurrayOrg/status/984391677040308225
https://twitter.com/CraigMurrayOrg/status/984390112174919685
https://twitter.com/CraigMurrayOrg/status/9843814943271690250 -
And indeed in the SW, Scotland, Midlands, and even getting 30% in Harborough and In Huntingdon.Danny565 said:
How come Corbyn did so well in the working-class areas of the North and Wales last year, then?FrancisUrquhart said:“I’m not one of those people that goes on about the liberal elite in London, but I don’t think he understands what makes the working classes tick outside of London and that is just hardcore industries. We’ve operated at our optimum as people when jobs give us meaning, and in the post-industrial hinterlands, he doesn’t understand that. I remember somebody at a meeting down in south Wales, an old guy, ex-miner, wanted his son to have a proper, real, blue-collar job, and he was saying: ‘What do you expect us to do, Mr Corbyn, make fucking love spoons out of hemp?’ I don’t think Jezza gets it, I don’t think he connects with people on that level, which is part of the reason we’re having political problems in Wales.”
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2018/apr/12/manic-street-preachers-jobs-meaning-jeremy-corbyn-doesnt-understand-that-resistance-is-useless
Much as PB Tories like to convince themselves that Corbynism is an Islington phenomenon, it had appeal in WWC areas across the nation.0 -
To prove that point, you need to differentiate Corbynism from generic support for Labour.Foxy said:
And indeed in the SW, Scotland, Midlands, and even getting 30% in Harborough and In Huntingdon.Danny565 said:
How come Corbyn did so well in the working-class areas of the North and Wales last year, then?FrancisUrquhart said:“I’m not one of those people that goes on about the liberal elite in London, but I don’t think he understands what makes the working classes tick outside of London and that is just hardcore industries. We’ve operated at our optimum as people when jobs give us meaning, and in the post-industrial hinterlands, he doesn’t understand that. I remember somebody at a meeting down in south Wales, an old guy, ex-miner, wanted his son to have a proper, real, blue-collar job, and he was saying: ‘What do you expect us to do, Mr Corbyn, make fucking love spoons out of hemp?’ I don’t think Jezza gets it, I don’t think he connects with people on that level, which is part of the reason we’re having political problems in Wales.”
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2018/apr/12/manic-street-preachers-jobs-meaning-jeremy-corbyn-doesnt-understand-that-resistance-is-useless
Much as PB Tories like to convince themselves that Corbynism is an Islington phenomenon, it had appeal in WWC areas across the nation.
There is, of course, support for Corbyn and his across the country but not in equal measure.0 -
Though Corbyn still got less of the wwc vote than Blair did, even if he got more than Ed Miliband and Gordon Brown.Foxy said:
And indeed in the SW, Scotland, Midlands, and even getting 30% in Harborough and In Huntingdon.Danny565 said:
How come Corbyn did so well in the working-class areas of the North and Wales last year, then?FrancisUrquhart said:“I’m not one of those people that goes on about the liberal elite in London, but I don’t think he understands what makes the working classes tick outside of London and that is just hardcore industries. We’ve operated at our optimum as people when jobs give us meaning, and in the post-industrial hinterlands, he doesn’t understand that. I remember somebody at a meeting down in south Wales, an old guy, ex-miner, wanted his son to have a proper, real, blue-collar job, and he was saying: ‘What do you expect us to do, Mr Corbyn, make fucking love spoons out of hemp?’ I don’t think Jezza gets it, I don’t think he connects with people on that level, which is part of the reason we’re having political problems in Wales.”
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2018/apr/12/manic-street-preachers-jobs-meaning-jeremy-corbyn-doesnt-understand-that-resistance-is-useless
Much as PB Tories like to convince themselves that Corbynism is an Islington phenomenon, it had appeal in WWC areas across the nation.
Indeed May won the C2 skilled working class vote with Corbyn only winning DE unskilled working class votes and the unemployed0 -
People seem to confuse the gains made by the parties in 2017 with their absolute support. It's probably true that Corbyn probably made greater gains with middle-class voters in 2017, and the Tories with working-class voters, but nonetheless, Labour still swept the board with the most economically downscale constituencies in 2017 (outside of Scotland anyway).Foxy said:
And indeed in the SW, Scotland, Midlands, and even getting 30% in Harborough and In Huntingdon.Danny565 said:
How come Corbyn did so well in the working-class areas of the North and Wales last year, then?FrancisUrquhart said:“I’m not one of those people that goes on about the liberal elite in London, but I don’t think he understands what makes the working classes tick outside of London and that is just hardcore industries. We’ve operated at our optimum as people when jobs give us meaning, and in the post-industrial hinterlands, he doesn’t understand that. I remember somebody at a meeting down in south Wales, an old guy, ex-miner, wanted his son to have a proper, real, blue-collar job, and he was saying: ‘What do you expect us to do, Mr Corbyn, make fucking love spoons out of hemp?’ I don’t think Jezza gets it, I don’t think he connects with people on that level, which is part of the reason we’re having political problems in Wales.”
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2018/apr/12/manic-street-preachers-jobs-meaning-jeremy-corbyn-doesnt-understand-that-resistance-is-useless
Much as PB Tories like to convince themselves that Corbynism is an Islington phenomenon, it had appeal in WWC areas across the nation.0 -
Everybody knows this country has way too many contributors and not nearly enough freeloaders.DavidL said:On topic the problem with giving free stuff to people is that eventually someone has to pay for it. No, honestly, they do. Really.
And even in London there are only so many bankers.0 -
Lobbing a few missiles at Assad will really make little difference to him and in any case it is Macron and Trump leading on this not MayDanny565 said:I can't for the life of me understand what people think a full military campaign in Syria is going to achieve. What can come of it, other than giving ISIS (or something similar) a way back? Are the people who will be killed by Western air strikes somehow more justified than the deaths caused by Assad's bombs?
It might make us all feel better to feel that we're Doing Something, but sometimes surely we do have to just realise that doing nothing is better than making things worse.0 -
I remember reading recently that the Conservatives only hold one seat in the poorest 10% of constituencies in Britain (Walsall North), with the rest being held either by Labour or the SNP.
At the other end of the scale, Labour now hold a handful of seats in the wealthiest 10% of constituencies (including Sheffield Hallam and, I think, Canterbury -- but not Kensington), but the Conservatives still dominate there.
This supposed "realignment" is being pretty overhyped.0 -
Labour's plan is excellent because it operates on the principle of levelling up rather than down in the quest for inter-generational fairness.What's good for the oldies,is good for the young-uns too.I pledge,along with several other disabled bus pass holders,I will unite with our OAP sisters and brothers to take direct action against any government which tries to take them away.Levelling up,level down and they could get a pitchfork up their backside.0
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The Tories have never lost ABs since 1997 and Labour have never lost DEs, it is C1s and C2s who decide electionsDanny565 said:
People seem to confuse the gains made by the parties in 2017 with their absolute support. It's probably true that Corbyn probably made greater gains with middle-class voters in 2017, and the Tories with working-class voters, but nonetheless, Labour still swept the board with the most economically downscale constituencies in 2017 (outside of Scotland anyway).Foxy said:
And indeed in the SW, Scotland, Midlands, and even getting 30% in Harborough and In Huntingdon.Danny565 said:
How come Corbyn did so well in the working-class areas of the North and Wales last year, then?FrancisUrquhart said:“I’m not one of those people that goes on about the liberal elite in London, but I don’t think he understands what makes the working classes tick outside of London and that is just hardcore industries. We’ve operated at our optimum as people when jobs give us meaning, and in the post-industrial hinterlands, he doesn’t understand that. I remember somebody at a meeting down in south Wales, an old guy, ex-miner, wanted his son to have a proper, real, blue-collar job, and he was saying: ‘What do you expect us to do, Mr Corbyn, make fucking love spoons out of hemp?’ I don’t think Jezza gets it, I don’t think he connects with people on that level, which is part of the reason we’re having political problems in Wales.”
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2018/apr/12/manic-street-preachers-jobs-meaning-jeremy-corbyn-doesnt-understand-that-resistance-is-useless
Much as PB Tories like to convince themselves that Corbynism is an Islington phenomenon, it had appeal in WWC areas across the nation.0 -
I am amazed that lists of grievances about what the baby boomers got vs what millennials get (university grants, affordable houses) never feature the all-the-tubes-and-buses-you-can-eat-at-any-time-of-day-or-night London Travelcard. That was bloody magic.FrancisUrquhart said:
I am sure there will also be lots of "accidental" misrepresentation (that it will apply to all buses) of it just like the student loan non-promise.david_herdson said:On topic, it's good politics and poor policy from Labour. It'll work well for them unless they end up having to implement it.
As an aside, free bus passes for the elderly are also a bad idea but it's a bad idea whose monetary cost is less than the political cost of scrapping it.0 -
Indeed, but one has to start somewhere.JosiasJessop said:
Indeed. Much of, not all of.Richard_Tyndall said:
Much of the money is, as I mentioned, coming fro a levy on businesses, even when they are well away from the Trams and so cannot benefit.JosiasJessop said:
This isn't an area I've looked into deeply, but she might be.rottenborough said:https://twitter.com/Anna_Soubry/status/984364460272996352
Not sure Anna is right on this one.
AIUI the Nottingham tram is losing many millions per year in running costs (citation below), and with the recent western extension, it is important for it to be seen as a success. Therefore price the rides so more people go on t'tram than t'bus, especially as both services probably get council subsidies.
Then there's the issue of the budget not being infinite, and the money spent subsidising the tram might be coming from services that would otherwise run to settlements away from the tram network.
Edit: http://www.railtechnologymagazine.com/Rail-News/nottingham-tram-operator-records-losses-of-48m-following-network-expansion
The problem with the tram network in Nottingham is that it's not big enough to be a comprehensive system to replace or displace other public transport, and yet still costs a great amount of money to run that could improve those other services.0 -
That;s right. But British policy appears to be that we'll do whatever Trump does, and you don't have to be Jeremy Corbyn to think that this is an unwise position to be in. He might be a reckless warmonger and get us into all kinds of trouble. He might be a secret peacenik who believes that making threats and then being nice is the way to go (cf. North Korea). It seems to depend on his mood rather than any considered strategy, and really we should not sign up to it sight unseen.HYUFD said:
Lobbing a few missiles at Assad will really make little difference to him and in any case it is Macron and Trump leading on this not MayDanny565 said:I can't for the life of me understand what people think a full military campaign in Syria is going to achieve. What can come of it, other than giving ISIS (or something similar) a way back? Are the people who will be killed by Western air strikes somehow more justified than the deaths caused by Assad's bombs?
It might make us all feel better to feel that we're Doing Something, but sometimes surely we do have to just realise that doing nothing is better than making things worse.0 -
True but if anything Macron is even more enthusiastic about military action against Assad than TrumpNickPalmer said:
That;s right. But British policy appears to be that we'll do whatever Trump does, and you don't have to be Jeremy Corbyn to think that this is an unwise position to be in. He might be a reckless warmonger and get us into all kinds of trouble. He might be a secret peacenik who believes that making threats and then being nice is the way to go (cf. North Korea). It seems to depend on his mood rather than any considered strategy, and really we should not sign up to it sight unseen.HYUFD said:
Lobbing a few missiles at Assad will really make little difference to him and in any case it is Macron and Trump leading on this not MayDanny565 said:I can't for the life of me understand what people think a full military campaign in Syria is going to achieve. What can come of it, other than giving ISIS (or something similar) a way back? Are the people who will be killed by Western air strikes somehow more justified than the deaths caused by Assad's bombs?
It might make us all feel better to feel that we're Doing Something, but sometimes surely we do have to just realise that doing nothing is better than making things worse.0 -
It's a great leveller unless you live in an area where the bus monopoly is run by Stagecoach - in which case you get nothing.volcanopete said:Labour's plan is excellent because it operates on the principle of levelling up rather than down in the quest for inter-generational fairness.What's good for the oldies,is good for the young-uns too.I pledge,along with several other disabled bus pass holders,I will unite with our OAP sisters and brothers to take direct action against any government which tries to take them away.Levelling up,level down and they could get a pitchfork up their backside.
0 -
Correct – there is lots and lots of utter garbage about the parties being realigned on 'values' lines – Somewheres vs Anywheres (ugh, apologies for using that horrific term), flags vs fociacca etc etc. Yet the income ladder of constituencies shows you that wealth is almost as big a factor as it ever was, which is why the Labour team in my area hammer the local council estate but almost never canvas our street, where the average house price is £500,000+. There are some votes there for them, but not enough to make their time worth it.Danny565 said:I remember reading recently that the Conservatives only hold one seat in the poorest 10% of constituencies in Britain (Walsall North), with the rest being held either by Labour or the SNP.
At the other end of the scale, Labour now hold a handful of seats in the wealthiest 10% of constituencies (including Sheffield Hallam and, I think, Canterbury -- but not Kensington), but the Conservatives still dominate there.
This supposed "realignment" is being pretty overhyped.0 -
There's still a link between wealth and voting intention, but the link is weaker than it was a generation ago.Anazina said:
Correct – there is lots and lots of utter garbage about the parties being realigned on 'values' lines – Somewheres vs Anywheres (ugh, apologies for using that horrific term), flags vs fociacca etc etc. Yet the income ladder of constituencies shows you that wealth is almost as big a factor as it ever was, which is why the Labour team in my area hammer the local council estate but almost never canvas our street, where the average house price is £500,000+. There are some votes there for them, but not enough to make their time worth it.Danny565 said:I remember reading recently that the Conservatives only hold one seat in the poorest 10% of constituencies in Britain (Walsall North), with the rest being held either by Labour or the SNP.
At the other end of the scale, Labour now hold a handful of seats in the wealthiest 10% of constituencies (including Sheffield Hallam and, I think, Canterbury -- but not Kensington), but the Conservatives still dominate there.
This supposed "realignment" is being pretty overhyped.0 -
What you need is a proper regulated bus network that is run as a public service not for chiselling profits on the most popular routes. Even Mrs T recognised the benefits of that, hence why she never deregulated the bus network here in London.TGOHF said:
It's a great leveller unless you live in an area where the bus monopoly is run by Stagecoach - in which case you get nothing.volcanopete said:Labour's plan is excellent because it operates on the principle of levelling up rather than down in the quest for inter-generational fairness.What's good for the oldies,is good for the young-uns too.I pledge,along with several other disabled bus pass holders,I will unite with our OAP sisters and brothers to take direct action against any government which tries to take them away.Levelling up,level down and they could get a pitchfork up their backside.
0 -
Ooooh, very satirical, but I wonder if there are any recent precedents for a UK PM taking a similar stance towards a US President? Given the decency displayed by the French on that occasion in resisting the blandishments of the repulsive Blair and Bush, I will find a crumb of comfort in doing whatever we do, if Macron is with us.NickPalmer said:
That;s right. But British policy appears to be that we'll do whatever Trump does, and you don't have to be Jeremy Corbyn to think that this is an unwise position to be in. He might be a reckless warmonger and get us into all kinds of trouble. He might be a secret peacenik who believes that making threats and then being nice is the way to go (cf. North Korea). It seems to depend on his mood rather than any considered strategy, and really we should not sign up to it sight unseen.HYUFD said:
Lobbing a few missiles at Assad will really make little difference to him and in any case it is Macron and Trump leading on this not MayDanny565 said:I can't for the life of me understand what people think a full military campaign in Syria is going to achieve. What can come of it, other than giving ISIS (or something similar) a way back? Are the people who will be killed by Western air strikes somehow more justified than the deaths caused by Assad's bombs?
It might make us all feel better to feel that we're Doing Something, but sometimes surely we do have to just realise that doing nothing is better than making things worse.0 -
Not very much weaker.Sean_F said:
There's still a link between wealth and voting intention, but the link is weaker than it was a generation ago.Anazina said:
Correct – there is lots and lots of utter garbage about the parties being realigned on 'values' lines – Somewheres vs Anywheres (ugh, apologies for using that horrific term), flags vs fociacca etc etc. Yet the income ladder of constituencies shows you that wealth is almost as big a factor as it ever was, which is why the Labour team in my area hammer the local council estate but almost never canvas our street, where the average house price is £500,000+. There are some votes there for them, but not enough to make their time worth it.Danny565 said:I remember reading recently that the Conservatives only hold one seat in the poorest 10% of constituencies in Britain (Walsall North), with the rest being held either by Labour or the SNP.
At the other end of the scale, Labour now hold a handful of seats in the wealthiest 10% of constituencies (including Sheffield Hallam and, I think, Canterbury -- but not Kensington), but the Conservatives still dominate there.
This supposed "realignment" is being pretty overhyped.0 -
The wealth gap is still there but is not as big as the age gap now e.g. Labour do better with high earners and the wealthy than they do with the retired and the Tories do better with the poor and working class than they do with the young. Middle aged C1s and C2s remain the key swing votersAnazina said:
Correct – there is lots and lots of utter garbage about the parties being realigned on 'values' lines – Somewheres vs Anywheres (ugh, apologies for using that horrific term), flags vs fociacca etc etc. Yet the income ladder of constituencies shows you that wealth is almost as big a factor as it ever was, which is why the Labour team in my area hammer the local council estate but almost never canvas our street, where the average house price is £500,000+. There are some votes there for them, but not enough to make their time worth it.Danny565 said:I remember reading recently that the Conservatives only hold one seat in the poorest 10% of constituencies in Britain (Walsall North), with the rest being held either by Labour or the SNP.
At the other end of the scale, Labour now hold a handful of seats in the wealthiest 10% of constituencies (including Sheffield Hallam and, I think, Canterbury -- but not Kensington), but the Conservatives still dominate there.
This supposed "realignment" is being pretty overhyped.0 -
When I was in Liverpool over the Easter weekend, I took the bus to Chester Zoo for only £4 return (actually a Stagecoach "Mersey+ Dayrider")..0
-
@TSE, re Jeremy Thorpe,
I'd recommend Rinkagate by Simon Freeman and Barrie Penrose, and the The Last Word, by Auberon Waugh.
I was 12 at the time of the trial. As I recall, the general view was that no one really cared whether or not Thorpe was guilty. Scott was seen as a spiteful blackmailer, and Thorpe would have been acquitted if he'd shot him in front of a dozen witnesses.0 -
Goldman Sachs CEO bought in to Project Fear:
https://www.politico.eu/article/goldman-sachs-ceo-brexit-effects-not-as-bad-as-i-thought-for-now/0 -
Breaking from BBC
Russian ships are leaving their port in Syria 'for their own safety'0 -
☭Aвтобус☭
How to spot a Comrade Corbyn bus0 -
I suspect some just like the idea that the Tories are on the side of the poor and the working class and so believe it to be true.Danny565 said:
People seem to confuse the gains made by the parties in 2017 with their absolute support. It's probably true that Corbyn probably made greater gains with middle-class voters in 2017, and the Tories with working-class voters, but nonetheless, Labour still swept the board with the most economically downscale constituencies in 2017 (outside of Scotland anyway).Foxy said:
And indeed in the SW, Scotland, Midlands, and even getting 30% in Harborough and In Huntingdon.
Much as PB Tories like to convince themselves that Corbynism is an Islington phenomenon, it had appeal in WWC areas across the nation.
0 -
The people of North Devon (?) appeared to care at the election.Sean_F said:@TSE, re Jeremy Thorpe,
I'd recommend Rinkagate by Simon Freeman and Barrie Penrose, and the The Last Word, by Auberon Waugh.
I was 12 at the time of the trial. As I recall, the general view was that no one really cared whether or not Thorpe was guilty. Scott was seen as a spiteful blackmailer, and Thorpe would have been acquitted if he'd shot him in front of a dozen witnesses.0 -
Is the tram to Rotherham Parkgate going to open soon?0
-
You have almost to admire the determined self-delusion of someone who believes that ISIS might have developed the capacity to manufacture sophisticated nerve agents, and the ability to smuggle them undetected into the UK - and would then use them in a complicated plot to.... damage Russia's reputation.FF43 said:
You wonder how Craig Murray got to be UK ambassador. I know,, a figurative (and almost literal - they're next door) posting to Siberia. But still.FrancisUrquhart said:
Tin foil hats at the ready...CarlottaVance said:twitter.com/EliotHiggins/status/984391189469319168
twitter.com/RTUKnews/status/984390008739115008
https://twitter.com/CraigMurrayOrg/status/984391677040308225
https://twitter.com/CraigMurrayOrg/status/984390112174919685
https://twitter.com/CraigMurrayOrg/status/9843814943271690250 -
Though Thorpe still got 23 000 votes in North Devon in 1979 and the Liberals won it back in 1992david_herdson said:
The people of North Devon (?) appeared to care at the election.Sean_F said:@TSE, re Jeremy Thorpe,
I'd recommend Rinkagate by Simon Freeman and Barrie Penrose, and the The Last Word, by Auberon Waugh.
I was 12 at the time of the trial. As I recall, the general view was that no one really cared whether or not Thorpe was guilty. Scott was seen as a spiteful blackmailer, and Thorpe would have been acquitted if he'd shot him in front of a dozen witnesses.0 -
While Labour is still the party of the poor and working class as a percentage UKIP got more of its voters from that demographic while the LDs now get a higher percentage of their vote from the rich and upper middle class than the Tories dorkrkrk said:
I suspect some just like the idea that the Tories are on the side of the poor and the working class and so believe it to be true.Danny565 said:
People seem to confuse the gains made by the parties in 2017 with their absolute support. It's probably true that Corbyn probably made greater gains with middle-class voters in 2017, and the Tories with working-class voters, but nonetheless, Labour still swept the board with the most economically downscale constituencies in 2017 (outside of Scotland anyway).Foxy said:
And indeed in the SW, Scotland, Midlands, and even getting 30% in Harborough and In Huntingdon.
Much as PB Tories like to convince themselves that Corbynism is an Islington phenomenon, it had appeal in WWC areas across the nation.0 -
Your avatar is an automatic Godwin.JonnyJimmy said:☭Aвтобус☭
How to spot a Comrade Corbyn bus
Pretty awful too.0 -
The trams are the same as those used in Nantes, another city where I spend a lot of time. Very nice - indeed much nicer than your average cross country train carriage.JosiasJessop said:
I've never actually travelled on the Nottingham system. I have a dear friend who lives in Nottingham's eastern suburbs, and the tram system is a much use to her a chocolate teapot. We always either drive or use the park and ride, and there's little point in using the trams for our visits shopping in the centre. Despite there being an old railway line clear (although unusable at current) virtually behind her house.
I keep on meaning to plan a walk around the network, using the trams to get back, but my walking time's strictly limited atm ...0 -
I exaggerated, although it's notable that Thorpe still retained 82% of his vote from October 1974.david_herdson said:
The people of North Devon (?) appeared to care at the election.Sean_F said:@TSE, re Jeremy Thorpe,
I'd recommend Rinkagate by Simon Freeman and Barrie Penrose, and the The Last Word, by Auberon Waugh.
I was 12 at the time of the trial. As I recall, the general view was that no one really cared whether or not Thorpe was guilty. Scott was seen as a spiteful blackmailer, and Thorpe would have been acquitted if he'd shot him in front of a dozen witnesses.
Auberon Waugh stood as a Dog Lover in the election.0 -
It's a Chaplin moustache, maybe the one from The Great Dictator, but still a Chaplin!Anazina said:
Your avatar is an automatic Godwin.JonnyJimmy said:☭Aвтобус☭
How to spot a Comrade Corbyn bus
Pretty awful too.0 -
Its coming from America.....and while the old drivers of voting from the past may still hold true....they may be changing:Anazina said:
Correct – there is lots and lots of utter garbage about the parties being realigned on 'values' lines – Somewheres vs Anywheres (ugh, apologies for using that horrific term), flags vs fociacca etc etc. Yet the income ladder of constituencies shows you that wealth is almost as big a factor as it ever was, which is why the Labour team in my area hammer the local council estate but almost never canvas our street, where the average house price is £500,000+. There are some votes there for them, but not enough to make their time worth it.Danny565 said:I remember reading recently that the Conservatives only hold one seat in the poorest 10% of constituencies in Britain (Walsall North), with the rest being held either by Labour or the SNP.
At the other end of the scale, Labour now hold a handful of seats in the wealthiest 10% of constituencies (including Sheffield Hallam and, I think, Canterbury -- but not Kensington), but the Conservatives still dominate there.
This supposed "realignment" is being pretty overhyped.
https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/984014122370072578
(Refers to Dems in the US - worth seeing the rest of the tweets, maybe some applicability this side of the pond...)0 -
As discussed, there are marginal changes but as @Danny565 rightly said, the absolute picture remains very much wealth aligned. That is clear to see simply by plotting the richest and poorest seats against their vote.HYUFD said:
While Labour is still the party of the poor and working class as a percentage UKIP got more of its voters from that demographic while the LDs now get a higher percentage of their vote from the rich and upper middle class than the Tories dorkrkrk said:
I suspect some just like the idea that the Tories are on the side of the poor and the working class and so believe it to be true.Danny565 said:
People seem to confuse the gains made by the parties in 2017 with their absolute support. It's probably true that Corbyn probably made greater gains with middle-class voters in 2017, and the Tories with working-class voters, but nonetheless, Labour still swept the board with the most economically downscale constituencies in 2017 (outside of Scotland anyway).Foxy said:
And indeed in the SW, Scotland, Midlands, and even getting 30% in Harborough and In Huntingdon.
Much as PB Tories like to convince themselves that Corbynism is an Islington phenomenon, it had appeal in WWC areas across the nation.
That all said, as you argued the toss the other day that West London "was largely Tory" when simply googling a parliamentary map of West London shows this to be utter tripe, I expect you will continue to argue the toss under everyone else is bored of arguing with you. I have work to do!0 -
Yes but Jezza isn't proposing nor has budgeted for that.Anazina said:
What you need is a proper regulated bus network that is run as a public service not for chiselling profits on the most popular routes. Even Mrs T recognised the benefits of that, hence why she never deregulated the bus network here in London.TGOHF said:
It's a great leveller unless you live in an area where the bus monopoly is run by Stagecoach - in which case you get nothing.volcanopete said:Labour's plan is excellent because it operates on the principle of levelling up rather than down in the quest for inter-generational fairness.What's good for the oldies,is good for the young-uns too.I pledge,along with several other disabled bus pass holders,I will unite with our OAP sisters and brothers to take direct action against any government which tries to take them away.Levelling up,level down and they could get a pitchfork up their backside.
Hence will end up with a very unfair system / postcode lottery for his £1.4Bn0 -
Cheers.Sean_F said:@TSE, re Jeremy Thorpe,
I'd recommend Rinkagate by Simon Freeman and Barrie Penrose, and the The Last Word, by Auberon Waugh.
I was 12 at the time of the trial. As I recall, the general view was that no one really cared whether or not Thorpe was guilty. Scott was seen as a spiteful blackmailer, and Thorpe would have been acquitted if he'd shot him in front of a dozen witnesses.
I still love the impartial summing up at the trial.0 -
I was at University where the unexpurgated trial testimony swiftly made the rounds at the Union...'A Very English Scandal' (upon which the TV series is based) is very good too - and of course there's Peter Cook's immortal 'Judge's Summing Up'.....'Entirely a matter for you' (to the jury, having just traduced a witness...)Sean_F said:@TSE, re Jeremy Thorpe,
I'd recommend Rinkagate by Simon Freeman and Barrie Penrose, and the The Last Word, by Auberon Waugh.
I was 12 at the time of the trial. As I recall, the general view was that no one really cared whether or not Thorpe was guilty. Scott was seen as a spiteful blackmailer, and Thorpe would have been acquitted if he'd shot him in front of a dozen witnesses.0 -
Presumably the idea is to bounce them into regulation – that could be a shrewd move as deregulation has been an unmitigated failure. The buses outside London, with a handful or exceptions, are generally grotty, infrequent, low-tech and dismal.TGOHF said:
Yes but Jezza isn't proposing nor has budgeted for that.Anazina said:
What you need is a proper regulated bus network that is run as a public service not for chiselling profits on the most popular routes. Even Mrs T recognised the benefits of that, hence why she never deregulated the bus network here in London.TGOHF said:
It's a great leveller unless you live in an area where the bus monopoly is run by Stagecoach - in which case you get nothing.volcanopete said:Labour's plan is excellent because it operates on the principle of levelling up rather than down in the quest for inter-generational fairness.What's good for the oldies,is good for the young-uns too.I pledge,along with several other disabled bus pass holders,I will unite with our OAP sisters and brothers to take direct action against any government which tries to take them away.Levelling up,level down and they could get a pitchfork up their backside.
Hence will end up with a very unfair system / postcode lottery for his £1.4Bn0 -
First paragraph is largely correct, the poshest voters are now LD Remainers and the most working class voters are often Leave voters who voted UKIP in 2015 but the Tories still lead overall with the wealthiest voters and Labour lead with the poorest voters.Anazina said:
As discussed, there are marginal changes but as @Danny565 rightly said, the absolute picture remains very much wealth aligned. That is clear to see simply by plotting the richest and poorest seats against their vote.HYUFD said:
While Labour is still the party of the poor and working class as a percentage UKIP got more of its voters from that demographic while the LDs now get a higher percentage of their vote from the rich and upper middle class than the Tories dorkrkrk said:
I suspect some just like the idea that the Tories are on the side of the poor and the working class and so believe it to be true.Danny565 said:
People seem to confuse the gains made by the parties in 2017 with their absolute support. It's probably true that Corbyn probably made greater gains with middle-class voters in 2017, and the Tories with working-class voters, but nonetheless, Labour still swept the board with the most economically downscale constituencies in 2017 (outside of Scotland anyway).Foxy said:
And indeed in the SW, Scotland, Midlands, and even getting 30% in Harborough and In Huntingdon.
Much as PB Tories like to convince themselves that Corbynism is an Islington phenomenon, it had appeal in WWC areas across the nation.
That all said, as you argued the toss the other day that West London "was largely Tory" when simply googling a parliamentary map of West London shows this to be utter tripe, I expect you will continue to argue the toss under everyone else is bored of arguing with you. I have work to do!
In terms of your second paragraph my point remains e.g. despite Labour having most seats in the London Assembly the London West Central Assembly member is a Tory as are West London seats like Chelsea and Fulham, Putney, Cities of London and Westminster and Kensington and Chelsea, Wandsworth and Westminster councils, again all in West London0 -
He wasn't wrong to describe Scott in the manner he did.TheScreamingEagles said:
Cheers.Sean_F said:@TSE, re Jeremy Thorpe,
I'd recommend Rinkagate by Simon Freeman and Barrie Penrose, and the The Last Word, by Auberon Waugh.
I was 12 at the time of the trial. As I recall, the general view was that no one really cared whether or not Thorpe was guilty. Scott was seen as a spiteful blackmailer, and Thorpe would have been acquitted if he'd shot him in front of a dozen witnesses.
I still love the impartial summing up at the trial.
He was entirely wrong to describe Thorpe and his co-defendants as "men of unblemished reputation."0 -
The Head of the Syrian Chemical Weapons programme and good friend of the Assads is a Mr Amr Armanazi (how apt) who has two sons living and working in Britain with British citizenship. I suspect that quite a lot of the assets of the Assads and their coterie are in financial centres where action could be taken.
See my post yesterday about possible scandals in the wealth management sector.0 -
Well Mrs Assad is still a British Citizen as well. We haven't stripped her of it.Cyclefree said:The Head of the Syrian Chemical Weapons programme and good friend of the Assads is a Mr Amr Armanazi (how apt) who has two sons living and working in Britain with British citizenship. I suspect that quite a lot of the assets of the Assads and their coterie are in financial centres where action could be taken.
See my post yesterday about possible scandals in the wealth management sector.0 -
The Queen may be a child of the Prophet Muhammad
Family tree suggests the monarch is directly descended from the founder of Islam
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/queen-may-be-child-of-muhammad-k5xd9btcl
... but then aren't we all descended from the relatively few people way back in time?
http://www.iflscience.com/editors-blog/descended-royalty-math/0 -
TFL's revenues are on the down and down - despite their shiny buses. Too many people cycling no doubt - or uber. Perhaps why Jezza wants to prop them up before unionised workers feel the pinch ?Anazina said:
Presumably the idea is to bounce them into regulation – that could be a shrewd move as deregulation has been an unmitigated failure. The buses outside London, with a handful or exceptions, are generally grotty, infrequent, low-tech and dismal.TGOHF said:
Yes but Jezza isn't proposing nor has budgeted for that.Anazina said:
What you need is a proper regulated bus network that is run as a public service not for chiselling profits on the most popular routes. Even Mrs T recognised the benefits of that, hence why she never deregulated the bus network here in London.TGOHF said:
It's a great leveller unless you live in an area where the bus monopoly is run by Stagecoach - in which case you get nothing.volcanopete said:Labour's plan is excellent because it operates on the principle of levelling up rather than down in the quest for inter-generational fairness.What's good for the oldies,is good for the young-uns too.I pledge,along with several other disabled bus pass holders,I will unite with our OAP sisters and brothers to take direct action against any government which tries to take them away.Levelling up,level down and they could get a pitchfork up their backside.
Hence will end up with a very unfair system / postcode lottery for his £1.4Bn
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/feb/12/fall-in-journeys-leaves-tfl-facing-near-1bn-deficit-next-year
"Transport for London (TfL) has insisted it is not facing a financial crisis despite planning for a near £1bn deficit next year after a surprise fall in passenger numbers."
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/revealed-tfl-facing-400m-budget-hole-as-passengers-desert-rowdy-and-crowded-tube-a3752971.html
"At the same time, the number of people cycling in central London is at record numbers, up 5.8 per cent year on year to 173,000 journeys a day within the congestion charge zone."
"However, the number of bus miles operated is due to be cut by seven per cent over the next five years. This means the only way to keep bus income stable is for bus occupancy to increase by 11 per cent. "0 -
Something Khan's fare freeze is not helping. Politically positive, financially disastrous.TGOHF said:
TFL's revenues are on the down and down - despite their shiny buses. Too many people cycling no doubt - or uber. Perhaps why Jezza wants to prop them up before unionised workers feel the pinch ?Anazina said:
Presumably the idea is to bounce them into regulation – that could be a shrewd move as deregulation has been an unmitigated failure. The buses outside London, with a handful or exceptions, are generally grotty, infrequent, low-tech and dismal.TGOHF said:
Yes but Jezza isn't proposing nor has budgeted for that.Anazina said:
What you need is a proper regulated bus network that is run as a public service not for chiselling profits on the most popular routes. Even Mrs T recognised the benefits of that, hence why she never deregulated the bus network here in London.TGOHF said:
It's a great leveller unless you live in an area where the bus monopoly is run by Stagecoach - in which case you get nothing.volcanopete said:Labour's plan is excellent because it operates on the principle of levelling up rather than down in the quest for inter-generational fairness.What's good for the oldies,is good for the young-uns too.I pledge,along with several other disabled bus pass holders,I will unite with our OAP sisters and brothers to take direct action against any government which tries to take them away.Levelling up,level down and they could get a pitchfork up their backside.
Hence will end up with a very unfair system / postcode lottery for his £1.4Bn
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/feb/12/fall-in-journeys-leaves-tfl-facing-near-1bn-deficit-next-year
"Transport for London (TfL) has insisted it is not facing a financial crisis despite planning for a near £1bn deficit next year after a surprise fall in passenger numbers."
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/revealed-tfl-facing-400m-budget-hole-as-passengers-desert-rowdy-and-crowded-tube-a3752971.html
"At the same time, the number of people cycling in central London is at record numbers, up 5.8 per cent year on year to 173,000 journeys a day within the congestion charge zone."0 -
The Tory vote increase correlated to Brexit sentiment, whereas the Labour vote went up pretty much... everywhere and the strongest correlation I found was to previous non voters.Danny565 said:I remember reading recently that the Conservatives only hold one seat in the poorest 10% of constituencies in Britain (Walsall North), with the rest being held either by Labour or the SNP.
At the other end of the scale, Labour now hold a handful of seats in the wealthiest 10% of constituencies (including Sheffield Hallam and, I think, Canterbury -- but not Kensington), but the Conservatives still dominate there.
This supposed "realignment" is being pretty overhyped.
The link within constituency for wealth distribution is still there though.
To take a somewhat parochial example near me, I imagine Aaron Bell (Tissue Price) would have knocked every door of Tickhill, whereas Flint would have got a huge majority in Edlington.0 -
Even if that were true, which it isn't, how in the name of heaven would regulation or nationalisation make any difference? If you the taxpayer want to pay for delightful, frequent, hi-tech bus services on hardly-used rural and suburban routes, then of course the private sector will be delighted to provide them. Ownership and regulation has basically nothing to do with it, except that nationalised industries as we all well know generally provide worse service than private companies given that they have no franchise to lose, no shareholders to please and therefore no interest in attracting customers, zero incentive to improve, and tend to be easily manipulated by unions in the producers' interest.Anazina said:
Presumably the idea is to bounce them into regulation – that could be a shrewd move as deregulation has been an unmitigated failure. The buses outside London, with a handful or exceptions, are generally grotty, infrequent, low-tech and dismal.TGOHF said:
Yes but Jezza isn't proposing nor has budgeted for that.Anazina said:
What you need is a proper regulated bus network that is run as a public service not for chiselling profits on the most popular routes. Even Mrs T recognised the benefits of that, hence why she never deregulated the bus network here in London.TGOHF said:
It's a great leveller unless you live in an area where the bus monopoly is run by Stagecoach - in which case you get nothing.volcanopete said:Labour's plan is excellent because it operates on the principle of levelling up rather than down in the quest for inter-generational fairness.What's good for the oldies,is good for the young-uns too.I pledge,along with several other disabled bus pass holders,I will unite with our OAP sisters and brothers to take direct action against any government which tries to take them away.Levelling up,level down and they could get a pitchfork up their backside.
Hence will end up with a very unfair system / postcode lottery for his £1.4Bn0 -
Corbyn would be able to subsidise this heavily unionised sector of his core support via this "taxpayer funded bus passes" idea. That's what this idea is all about.JosiasJessop said:
Something Khan's fare freeze is not helping. Politically positive, financially disastrous.TGOHF said:
TFL's revenues are on the down and down - despite their shiny buses. Too many people cycling no doubt - or uber. Perhaps why Jezza wants to prop them up before unionised workers feel the pinch ?Anazina said:
Presumably the idea is to bounce them into regulation – that could be a shrewd move as deregulation has been an unmitigated failure. The buses outside London, with a handful or exceptions, are generally grotty, infrequent, low-tech and dismal.TGOHF said:
Yes but Jezza isn't proposing nor has budgeted for that.Anazina said:
What you need is a proper regulated bus network that is run as a public service not for chiselling profits on the most popular routes. Even Mrs T recognised the benefits of that, hence why she never deregulated the bus network here in London.TGOHF said:
It's a great leveller unless you live in an area where the bus monopoly is run by Stagecoach - in which case you get nothing.volcanopete said:Labour's plan is excellent because it operates on the principle of levelling up rather than down in the quest for inter-generational fairness.What's good for the oldies,is good for the young-uns too.I pledge,along with several other disabled bus pass holders,I will unite with our OAP sisters and brothers to take direct action against any government which tries to take them away.Levelling up,level down and they could get a pitchfork up their backside.
Hence will end up with a very unfair system / postcode lottery for his £1.4Bn
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/feb/12/fall-in-journeys-leaves-tfl-facing-near-1bn-deficit-next-year
"Transport for London (TfL) has insisted it is not facing a financial crisis despite planning for a near £1bn deficit next year after a surprise fall in passenger numbers."
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/revealed-tfl-facing-400m-budget-hole-as-passengers-desert-rowdy-and-crowded-tube-a3752971.html
"At the same time, the number of people cycling in central London is at record numbers, up 5.8 per cent year on year to 173,000 journeys a day within the congestion charge zone."
0 -
Would you Adam and Eve it?logical_song said:The Queen may be a child of the Prophet Muhammad
Family tree suggests the monarch is directly descended from the founder of Islam
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/queen-may-be-child-of-muhammad-k5xd9btcl
... but then aren't we all descended from the relatively few people way back in time?
http://www.iflscience.com/editors-blog/descended-royalty-math/0 -
Why not? She can have Syrian citizenship. And action like that accompanied by freezing of assets here, inability to move money here or travel etc would achieve more than lobbing some extensive hardware into a desert, especcially as anything used to launch the chemical attacks will have been moved by now well out of reach.FrancisUrquhart said:
Well Mrs Assad is still a British Citizen as well. We haven't stripped her of it.Cyclefree said:The Head of the Syrian Chemical Weapons programme and good friend of the Assads is a Mr Amr Armanazi (how apt) who has two sons living and working in Britain with British citizenship. I suspect that quite a lot of the assets of the Assads and their coterie are in financial centres where action could be taken.
See my post yesterday about possible scandals in the wealth management sector.0 -
I don't know. Also my understanding from a segment on Radio Daily Mirror the other day (moaning by a human rights lawyer that we were stripping citizenship of ISIS fighters), that the government can pretty much sign a bit of paper stating it is in the public good to do so and it is done (subject to an appeal, but they rarely overturn the original decision).Cyclefree said:
Why not? She can have Syrian citizenship. And action like that accompanied by freezing of assets here, inability to move money here or travel etc would achieve more than lobbing some extensive hardware into a desert, especcially as anything used to launch the chemical attacks will have been moved by now well out of reach.FrancisUrquhart said:
Well Mrs Assad is still a British Citizen as well. We haven't stripped her of it.Cyclefree said:The Head of the Syrian Chemical Weapons programme and good friend of the Assads is a Mr Amr Armanazi (how apt) who has two sons living and working in Britain with British citizenship. I suspect that quite a lot of the assets of the Assads and their coterie are in financial centres where action could be taken.
See my post yesterday about possible scandals in the wealth management sector.0 -
How can they prove this - really? I thought there was some doubt about whether Queen Victoria was even her father’s daughter and that somewhere aound the time of the Richard Gaunt there was doubt about the paternity of one of the Plantagenet kings (can’t remember which) let alone going back to Mohammed, where details of his life - let alone of his descendants - are in reality pretty sketchy.logical_song said:The Queen may be a child of the Prophet Muhammad
Family tree suggests the monarch is directly descended from the founder of Islam
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/queen-may-be-child-of-muhammad-k5xd9btcl
... but then aren't we all descended from the relatively few people way back in time?
http://www.iflscience.com/editors-blog/descended-royalty-math/0 -
Buses are generally speaking the form of transport of last resort. You can make them as nice as possible (and those in W Yorks are modern, WiFi enabled, comfortable and so on), and they still go where they want, when they want and take forever over it - with the added bonus of the lottery of the person you end up sat next to.Anazina said:
Presumably the idea is to bounce them into regulation – that could be a shrewd move as deregulation has been an unmitigated failure. The buses outside London, with a handful or exceptions, are generally grotty, infrequent, low-tech and dismal.TGOHF said:
Yes but Jezza isn't proposing nor has budgeted for that.Anazina said:
What you need is a proper regulated bus network that is run as a public service not for chiselling profits on the most popular routes. Even Mrs T recognised the benefits of that, hence why she never deregulated the bus network here in London.TGOHF said:
It's a great leveller unless you live in an area where the bus monopoly is run by Stagecoach - in which case you get nothing.volcanopete said:Labour's plan is excellent because it operates on the principle of levelling up rather than down in the quest for inter-generational fairness.What's good for the oldies,is good for the young-uns too.I pledge,along with several other disabled bus pass holders,I will unite with our OAP sisters and brothers to take direct action against any government which tries to take them away.Levelling up,level down and they could get a pitchfork up their backside.
Hence will end up with a very unfair system / postcode lottery for his £1.4Bn0 -
Corbyn increased the Labour vote more than any other leader since Attlee in 1945:david_herdson said:
To prove that point, you need to differentiate Corbynism from generic support for Labour.Foxy said:
And indeed in the SW, Scotland, Midlands, and even getting 30% in Harborough and In Huntingdon.Danny565 said:
How come Corbyn did so well in the working-class areas of the North and Wales last year, then?FrancisUrquhart said:“I’m not one of those people that goes on about the liberal elite in London, but I don’t think he understands what makes the working classes tick outside of London and that is just hardcore industries. We’ve operated at our optimum as people when jobs give us meaning, and in the post-industrial hinterlands, he doesn’t understand that. I remember somebody at a meeting down in south Wales, an old guy, ex-miner, wanted his son to have a proper, real, blue-collar job, and he was saying: ‘What do you expect us to do, Mr Corbyn, make fucking love spoons out of hemp?’ I don’t think Jezza gets it, I don’t think he connects with people on that level, which is part of the reason we’re having political problems in Wales.”
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2018/apr/12/manic-street-preachers-jobs-meaning-jeremy-corbyn-doesnt-understand-that-resistance-is-useless
Much as PB Tories like to convince themselves that Corbynism is an Islington phenomenon, it had appeal in WWC areas across the nation.
There is, of course, support for Corbyn and his across the country but not in equal measure.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyn-election-result-vote-share-increased-1945-clement-attlee-a7781706.html
You may not like it, or understand his appeal, but Jezza outperformed all of his predecessors. It was more than ageneric Labour swing.0 -
I am always stunned at statements as to what we really need. We really need roads without gridlock at rush hour, hospitals with both experienced practitioners and specialist skills in all areas and not just major cities, schools with the highest facilities for every pupil everywhere. Unfortunately there is only a fixed pot of money to fund this from.Richard_Nabavi said:
Even if that were true, which it isn't, how in the name of heaven would regulation or nationalisation make any difference? If you the taxpayer want to pay for delightful, frequent, hi-tech bus services on hardly-used rural and suburban routes, then of course the private sector will be delighted to provide them. Ownership and regulation has basically nothing to do with it, except that nationalised industries as we all well know generally provide worse service than private companies given that they have no franchise to lose, no shareholders to please and therefore no interest in attracting customers, zero incentive to improve, and tend to be easily manipulated by unions in the producers' interest.
This seems to me to be a policy to drive a further wedge between town and country. Our towns and cities are pretty well catered for with regards to public transport. However once you move beyond the conurbations public transport provision is risible, and the rural poor really suffer as a consequence.
This seems purely political to me as if you look at a voting map of the country and look at the areas that voted labour it is these that currently have good public transport provision and good frequency. I.e if you need to get to work / hospital / studies etc for fixed times then in 50% of the country you cannot rely on public transport. I support an increased provision but it needs to be focussed on joined up thinking in these areas, subsidising routes, and considering out of hours options for oldies in rural areas. It's all very well having a 9:30 start time for older users, but if they need to get to often far off health facilities then they need to be on the buses earlier for the good of everyone.0 -
The age/education correlation is much stronger than the wealth one. In Broxtowe, by far the strongest Labour vote was in one of the wealthiest parts of the seat, because it was dominated by university people (lecturers and students and staff), while in the poorest parts of the seat (and there are pockets of real poverty there) most people never voted at all. The Tory strength was in retired non-academic areas.Pulpstar said:
The Tory vote increase correlated to Brexit sentiment, whereas the Labour vote went up pretty much... everywhere and the strongest correlation I found was to previous non voters.Danny565 said:I remember reading recently that the Conservatives only hold one seat in the poorest 10% of constituencies in Britain (Walsall North), with the rest being held either by Labour or the SNP.
At the other end of the scale, Labour now hold a handful of seats in the wealthiest 10% of constituencies (including Sheffield Hallam and, I think, Canterbury -- but not Kensington), but the Conservatives still dominate there.
This supposed "realignment" is being pretty overhyped.
The link within constituency for wealth distribution is still there though.
To take a somewhat parochial example near me, I imagine Aaron Bell (Tissue Price) would have knocked every door of Tickhill, whereas Flint would have got a huge majority in Edlington.0 -
She is a British citizen by birth, I believe. Are you suggesting British citizens should have their nationality revoked by executive order when they haven't been found guilty of any crime by a court of law?Cyclefree said:
Why not? She can have Syrian citizenship. And action like that accompanied by freezing of assets here, inability to move money here or travel etc would achieve more than lobbing some extensive hardware into a desert, especcially as anything used to launch the chemical attacks will have been moved by now well out of reach.FrancisUrquhart said:
Well Mrs Assad is still a British Citizen as well. We haven't stripped her of it.Cyclefree said:The Head of the Syrian Chemical Weapons programme and good friend of the Assads is a Mr Amr Armanazi (how apt) who has two sons living and working in Britain with British citizenship. I suspect that quite a lot of the assets of the Assads and their coterie are in financial centres where action could be taken.
See my post yesterday about possible scandals in the wealth management sector.
I thought you were a stickler for due process!0 -
In some constituencies, the old pattern still holds. In Hendon, Conservative support is solid in places like Mill Hill, Edgware, and Hendon proper. Labour support is solid in Colindale and Burnt Oak. In Hertsmere, Conservative support is much stronger in Radlett, Bushey and Potters Bar than it is in Borehamwood. The Conservatives remain absolutely dominant in the Stockbroker Belt, despite a lot of those constituencies voting Remain.Pulpstar said:
The Tory vote increase correlated to Brexit sentiment, whereas the Labour vote went up pretty much... everywhere and the strongest correlation I found was to previous non voters.Danny565 said:I remember reading recently that the Conservatives only hold one seat in the poorest 10% of constituencies in Britain (Walsall North), with the rest being held either by Labour or the SNP.
At the other end of the scale, Labour now hold a handful of seats in the wealthiest 10% of constituencies (including Sheffield Hallam and, I think, Canterbury -- but not Kensington), but the Conservatives still dominate there.
This supposed "realignment" is being pretty overhyped.
The link within constituency for wealth distribution is still there though.
To take a somewhat parochial example near me, I imagine Aaron Bell (Tissue Price) would have knocked every door of Tickhill, whereas Flint would have got a huge majority in Edlington.
OTOH, there are prosperous middle class seats where Tory support has fallen away sharply, like Hornsey & Wood Green, Leeds NE, Manchester Withington, Streatham, Dulwich, Crosby.0 -
If you don't punish dictators for using chemical weapons other evil men will feel emboldened to to do the same in future.Danny565 said:I can't for the life of me understand what people think a full military campaign in Syria is going to achieve. What can come of it, other than giving ISIS (or something similar) a way back? Are the people who will be killed by Western air strikes somehow more justified than the deaths caused by Assad's bombs?
It might make us all feel better to feel that we're Doing Something, but sometimes surely we do have to just realise that doing nothing is better than making things worse.
0 -
No, your original contention was that West London was "largely Tory". It isn't. It's largely Labour.HYUFD said:
First paragraph is largely correct, the poshest voters are now LD Remainers and the most working class voters are often Leave voters who voted UKIP in 2015 but the Tories still lead overall with the wealthiest voters and Labour lead with the poorest voters.Anazina said:
As discussed, there are marginal changes but as @Danny565 rightly said, the absolute picture remains very much wealth aligned. That is clear to see simply by plotting the richest and poorest seats against their vote.HYUFD said:
While Labour is still the party of the poor and working class as a percentage UKIP got more of its voters from that demographic while the LDs now get a higher percentage of their vote from the rich and upper middle class than the Tories dorkrkrk said:
I suspect some just like the idea that the Tories are on the side of the poor and the working class and so believe it to be true.Danny565 said:
People seem to confuse the gains made by the parties in 2017 with their absolute support. It's probably true that Corbyn probably made greater gains with middle-class voters in 2017, and the Tories with working-class voters, but nonetheless, Labour still swept the board with the most economically downscale constituencies in 2017 (outside of Scotland anyway).Foxy said:
And indeed in the SW, Scotland, Midlands, and even getting 30% in Harborough and In Huntingdon.
Much as PB Tories like to convince themselves that Corbynism is an Islington phenomenon, it had appeal in WWC areas across the nation.
That all said, as you argued the toss the other day that West London "was largely Tory" when simply googling a parliamentary map of West London shows this to be utter tripe, I expect you will continue to argue the toss under everyone else is bored of arguing with you. I have work to do!
In terms of your second paragraph my point remains e.g. despite Labour having most seats in the London Assembly the London West Central Assembly member is a Tory as are West London seats like Chelsea and Fulham, Putney, Cities of London and Westminster and Kensington and Chelsea, Wandsworth and Westminster councils, again all in West London
https://goo.gl/images/Zh8ebU
Let me spell this out for you – below are all the west London postcodes spelled out roughly by parliamentary seat.
W1 Tory
W2 Tory
W3 Labour
W4 Labour
W5 Labour
W6 Labour
W7 Labour
W8 Labour
W9 Labour
W10 Labour
W11 Labour
W12 Labour
W13 Labour
W14 Labour
P.S. If you think Putney, Wandsworth and the City are in West London, you are even worse at geography than I feared.
0 -
Really. I mean, really?Richard_Tyndall said:
The Nottingham trams are fab. But again they are a good idea poorly managed. Part of the cost of running the trams is raised by a car parking charge on companies and businesses within Nottingham. In the case of Boots the nearest tram stop is a 20 minute walk from the nearest entrance to the factory complex and the trams really only run into and out of Nottingham city centre. This means that for the vast majority of the 7500 employees they are of no use at all. And yet they are now paying an extra £200 each a year for their car parking spaces as the company cannot afford to cover the £1.3 million levy it has to pay each year.ydoethur said:
I'm sure she's wrong. Surely we'd have heard if the buses were being repeatedly hit by trams? The old Elf 'n Safety mob would have been on the case...rottenborough said:https://twitter.com/Anna_Soubry/status/984364460272996352
Not sure Anna is right on this one.
And of course a if you do want to use the tram is still £500 a year for each person buying a season ticket.
Effectively all that has happened is they have increased the cost of going to work substantially for everyone who works at Boots.
Do you want to read that back?0 -
Virtue signaling with missiles a year ago didn't stop either the Salisbury attack nor this latest atrocity in Syria. Why will it work better this time around?Charles said:
If you don't punish dictators for using chemical weapons other evil men will feel emboldened to to do the same in future.Danny565 said:I can't for the life of me understand what people think a full military campaign in Syria is going to achieve. What can come of it, other than giving ISIS (or something similar) a way back? Are the people who will be killed by Western air strikes somehow more justified than the deaths caused by Assad's bombs?
It might make us all feel better to feel that we're Doing Something, but sometimes surely we do have to just realise that doing nothing is better than making things worse.0 -
Nothing gets past Corbyn.
https://twitter.com/jamestapsfield/status/984389843093479424?s=210 -
This is what Baxter found in England, but there was quite high variance:NickPalmer said:
The age/education correlation is much stronger than the wealth one. In Broxtowe, by far the strongest Labour vote was in one of the wealthiest parts of the seat, because it was dominated by university people (lecturers and students and staff), while in the poorest parts of the seat (and there are pockets of real poverty there) most people never voted at all. The Tory strength was in retired non-academic areas.Pulpstar said:
The Tory vote increase correlated to Brexit sentiment, whereas the Labour vote went up pretty much... everywhere and the strongest correlation I found was to previous non voters.Danny565 said:I remember reading recently that the Conservatives only hold one seat in the poorest 10% of constituencies in Britain (Walsall North), with the rest being held either by Labour or the SNP.
At the other end of the scale, Labour now hold a handful of seats in the wealthiest 10% of constituencies (including Sheffield Hallam and, I think, Canterbury -- but not Kensington), but the Conservatives still dominate there.
This supposed "realignment" is being pretty overhyped.
The link within constituency for wealth distribution is still there though.
To take a somewhat parochial example near me, I imagine Aaron Bell (Tissue Price) would have knocked every door of Tickhill, whereas Flint would have got a huge majority in Edlington.
http://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/pseph_2017regress.html0 -
Corbyn's just trolling. He has no expectation of ever being PM - so he's just playing it all for shitz and gigglez.williamglenn said:Nothing gets past Corbyn.
https://twitter.com/jamestapsfield/status/984389843093479424?s=210 -
Thise who have gone to join ISIS have not been found guilty of any crime in a court of law but have had, in some cases, their citizenship removed. Nor are those who have their assets frozen found guilty of a crime before such action is taken, as you well know.Richard_Nabavi said:
She is a British citizen by birth, I believe. Are you suggesting British citizens should have their nationality revoked by executive order when they haven't been found guilty of any crime by a court of law?Cyclefree said:
Why not? She can have Syrian citizenship. And action like that accompanied by freezing of assets here, inability to move money here or travel etc would achieve more than lobbing some extensive hardware into a desert, especcially as anything used to launch the chemical attacks will have been moved by now well out of reach.FrancisUrquhart said:
Well Mrs Assad is still a British Citizen as well. We haven't stripped her of it.Cyclefree said:The Head of the Syrian Chemical Weapons programme and good friend of the Assads is a Mr Amr Armanazi (how apt) who has two sons living and working in Britain with British citizenship. I suspect that quite a lot of the assets of the Assads and their coterie are in financial centres where action could be taken.
See my post yesterday about possible scandals in the wealth management sector.
I thought you were a stickler for due process!
There is a process for imposing sanctions people who are in charge of countries or organizations which behave very wrongly and where we/the international community feel it is in the public interest to do so, much as with the debate around imposing sanctions on Putin’s friends, none of whom have been found guilty in a court of law.
There is a case for Britain making it clear to the Assad regime that we are so revolted by their behaviour that none of the people at the top of that regime, including families, will be allowed in Britain and will not be allowed to shelter assets here, whether directly or through family members or in other creative ways.
Financial and similar sanctions and other steps are something that Britain can use - and reasonably effectively and in a targeted way - without causing collateral damage (ie death to innocents in Syria) - and it would be in Britain’s interests, IMO, not to be seen as the financial haven of choice for various world scumbags.0
