politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » John Major is right: social mobility is the silent NIMBY

Options
2»

Comments

  • SimonStClare
    SimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    Good article Mr Herdson, and you are right to identify the selection process as a root cause of churning out identikit politicians. What is lacking today in Government and to its detriment imho, are the ‘characters’ that once made politics interesting.

    On the subject of class, I’m not overly concerned quite honestly; a good MP is a good MP, irrespective of social background. - Also a far greater problem for me is the lack of maturity, worldly experience and career expertise demonstrated by our MPs which is (in part) entirely down to the ever lowering age at which MPs are selected.
  • Morris_Dancer
    Morris_Dancer Posts: 62,742
    Rugby: Ashton should've been dropped a while ago, I think.
  • nigel4england
    nigel4england Posts: 4,800
    tim said:

    @georgeeaton: Cameron challenges the Tory climate change deniers, but will his policies match his rhetoric? http://t.co/tSukckGe6z

    Cue rage

    Whatever happened to the Global Warming deniers.....
  • RodCrosby
    RodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    One point Major and David Herdson have overlooked is:

    the Middle Class has grown!

    So we might expect them to have near full-spectrum dominance...
  • nigel4england
    nigel4england Posts: 4,800
    tim said:

    DavidL said:

    tim said:

    @DavidL

    The power of anecdote trumps all in the Education debate
    How many people will read the research Carola posted compared to the number regurgitating anecdote?

    Carola's link is indeed fascinating, not least about the delusions of new labour who wanted increased upward social mobility but never realised the quid pro quo was increased downward social mobility. But going back to what I started with there is this:

    "parents in more advantaged class positions show in effect a clear awareness that
    education, in its relation to employment, operates primarily as a positional good (Wolf, 2002:
    ch. 8). What matters is not how much education individuals acquire but rather how much
    relative to others - within, say, the same birth cohort - with whom they will be in closest
    competition in labour markets. Thus, in the face of some general improvement in educational
    standards, these parents can be expected to respond by using their superior economic
    resources to engage in what Thurow (1975: 95-7) has called ‘defensive expenditure’: i.e.
    expenditure aimed at preserving their children’s competitive edge. It is, for example, evident
    enough in Britain today that parental - and, perhaps, grandparental - resources, even if not
    sufficient to allow for children to be educated in the private sector, are still widely deployed
    to buy houses in areas served by high-performing state schools, to pay for individual tutoring,
    to help manage student debt, to support entry into postgraduate courses for which no loans
    are available, or, in the case of educational failure, to fund ‘second chances’."

    This exactly describes what I have sought to do for my children and the motivations I have described.

    Possibly the greatest joy of this blog for me is the links by those who know much more about a given area than I do. Thanks Carola!
    It also explains why poor kids are so successfully kept out of grammar schools
    Rigorous setting with larger catchment areas and banded entries by lottery is sensible

    So are you for grammar schools then?
  • richardDodd
    richardDodd Posts: 5,472
    Sean T..The lioness had probably sniffed out where your knee had been.
  • foxinsoxuk
    foxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    I think that poor candidate selection is a factor. The shrinking size of active constituency parties means that there is not so much diversity of selectors, and thereby the candidates selected.

    Dr Woolaston is slightly a loose cannon, but one of the most distinctive of new MPs. She is an excellent advert for open primaries. She is also the reason that the party machines have lost interest in open primaries. They deprive the party apparatchicks their power.

    Far better to pack a few meetings with members, as per Falkirk.
    SimonStClare said:

    Good article Mr Herdson, and you are right to identify the selection process as a root cause of churning out identikit politicians. What is lacking today in Government and to its detriment imho, are the ‘characters’ that once made politics interesting.

    On the subject of class, I’m not overly concerned quite honestly; a good MP is a good MP, irrespective of social background. - Also a far greater problem for me is the lack of maturity, worldly experience and career expertise demonstrated by our MPs which is (in part) entirely down to the ever lowering age at which MPs are selected.

  • CarlottaVance
    CarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    Apols if covered before - Joan Walley MP is standing down:

    http://www.itv.com/news/central/update/2013-11-15/joan-walley-to-step-down-as-stoke-on-trent-norths-mp/
  • FluffyThoughts
    FluffyThoughts Posts: 2,420
    tim said:

    @georgeeaton: Cameron challenges the Tory climate change deniers, but will his policies match his rhetoric? http://t.co/tSukckGe6z

    Cue rage

    Queue: To follow in a managed order.

    Cue: To follow Wodger's directions...

    Wee-Timmy: Tut! Bot Not so never clever 'Trevor'...! [Quite likely!]
  • SimonStClare
    SimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    @foxinsoxuk - If by ‘loose cannon’ you mean out spoken and of independent thought, from what we’ve seen of her so far I’d agree. - As you say, Dr Sarah Wollaston is ‘one of the most distinctive of new MPs’ and certainly demonstrates the maturity, worldly experience and career expertise needed in Government and so sadly lacking in the MPs that have taken the intern/SPAD root of selection.
  • foxinsoxuk
    foxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    I think she is likely to hold Totnes. Having been selected by local voters gives her a unique validity.

    Inevitably MPs of independent mind are seen as "loose cannon"; indeed the terms are probably synonyms. She was very vocal in her dissapointment over alcohol pricing in a rather over the top way., but it did show the strength of her feeling on the subject.

    Open primaries would make for a more genuinely varied bunch of MPs. Probably why they will not happen again.
    SimonStClare said:

    @foxinsoxuk - If by ‘loose cannon’ you mean out spoken and of independent thought, from what we’ve seen of her so far I’d agree. - As you say, Dr Sarah Wollaston is ‘one of the most distinctive of new MPs’ and certainly demonstrates the maturity, worldly experience and career expertise needed in Government and so sadly lacking in the MPs that have taken the intern/SPAD root of selection.

  • CarlottaVance
    CarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    The Tonbridge & Malling selection 2 weeks ago was by Open Primary and IIRC someone posted a link to another upcoming Tory one.
    foxinsoxuk said:

    Open primaries would make for a more genuinely varied bunch of MPs. Probably why they will not happen again.


    SimonStClare said:

    @foxinsoxuk - If by ‘loose cannon’ you mean out spoken and of independent thought, from what we’ve seen of her so far I’d agree. - As you say, Dr Sarah Wollaston is ‘one of the most distinctive of new MPs’ and certainly demonstrates the maturity, worldly experience and career expertise needed in Government and so sadly lacking in the MPs that have taken the intern/SPAD root of selection.

  • JonnyJimmy
    JonnyJimmy Posts: 2,548
    FluffyThoughts said:

    tim said:

    @georgeeaton: Cameron challenges the Tory climate change deniers, but will his policies match his rhetoric? http://t.co/tSukckGe6z

    Cue rage

    Queue: To follow in a managed order.

    Cue: To follow Wodger's directions...

    Wee-Timmy: Tut! Bot Not so never clever 'Trevor'...! [Quite likely!]
    I don't remember agreeing with Roger before, but I'm pretty sure he's using the right cue here...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cue_(theatrical)
  • RodCrosby
    RodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    edited November 2013
    More positive news for the 'Pool.
    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/liverpool-cenotaph-gets-grade-i-listed-status
    The Liverpool Cenotaph has been upgraded to Grade I status, making it one of just three such in the country...
    https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=liverpool+cenotaph&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=T2-HUqDkE8XOhAeFoYCIAg&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ&biw=1280&bih=607
  • Floater
    Floater Posts: 14,207
    TGOHF said:

    Another thread likely to be dominated by th Uk's wasteful obsession with class.

    Parenting is the key - don't rely on the government.

    Plenty of kids from poor homes earning the big bucks - just not in politics.

    Yep

    I grew up on a South London council estate and as I had to share a bedroom I grew up in poverty according to today's standards.

    But I had a great family and was lucky enough to go to a grammar school.

    Now I am lucky enough to be on a very nice salary, but I worked bloody hard to get to where I am today.



  • foxinsoxuk
    foxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Glad to hear it; and glad to be wrong.

    If there is a place for govt funding of parties, it should be for funding open primaries. This would get away from the Falkirk like problems and would generate local interest in politics. I am a fan.
    CarlottaVance said:

    The Tonbridge & Malling selection 2 weeks ago was by Open Primary and IIRC someone posted a link to another upcoming Tory one.

    foxinsoxuk said:

    Open primaries would make for a more genuinely varied bunch of MPs. Probably why they will not happen again.


    SimonStClare said:

    @foxinsoxuk - If by ‘loose cannon’ you mean out spoken and of independent thought, from what we’ve seen of her so far I’d agree. - As you say, Dr Sarah Wollaston is ‘one of the most distinctive of new MPs’ and certainly demonstrates the maturity, worldly experience and career expertise needed in Government and so sadly lacking in the MPs that have taken the intern/SPAD root of selection.

  • Financier
    Financier Posts: 3,916
    Thinking further, a major problem in the UK compared with countries in Africa and Asia where education is often not free, is the unwillingness or lack of ability to see for some of our youth that education and skills is a vital necessity for the rest of their life.

    We have a terrible truancy problem and it is to be presumed that this is due to the inability of some teachers to inspire children and also the perception that if there are no jobs to suit you where you live, then HMG will house and feed you and give you enough money to entertain yourself. Of course in many Asian and African countries, if you cannot work then you cannot eat.
  • Theuniondivvie
    Theuniondivvie Posts: 44,327
    RodCrosby said:

    making it one of just three such in the country...

    That country being...?
  • OldKingCole
    OldKingCole Posts: 35,275
    SeanT said:

    OK it's half eight here on a sweet, balmy tropical evening in Bangkok. Time to head out.

    Does anyone want to join me for a Jam sandwich?

    Da-boom-tish!

    It was raining this morning though. Or were you still jamming?
  • RodCrosby
    RodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    Theuniondivvie said:

    RodCrosby said:

    making it one of just three such in the country...

    That country being...?
    England ;-)

    I think it's actually the best in the world!
  • Morris_Dancer
    Morris_Dancer Posts: 62,742
    Good afternoon, everyone.

    P3 starts at 3pm. In the meantime, I'm hoping Wales beat the Argies by 21-40 points, and England get slaughtered.
  • RichardNabavi
    RichardNabavi Posts: 3,413
    Another excellent article from David H.

    There is however one important point which is frequently missed, and which distorts the picture quite considerably: there aren't many 'working class' Britons any more. In 1900, there were 1.1 million people employed in coal mining alone, along with millions more employed in other industries such as ship-building, steel-making, the docks, and the railways. Now we have a predominantly middle-class society; the old class divisions are much more blurred.
  • MikeSmithson
    MikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    New thread - and how you can get a drink courtesy of SeanT
This discussion has been closed.

Categories