BBC wittering on about the reshuffle. Truly bizarre. Completely lost the place.
And people claim we need to pay for the BBC because its a public service broadcaster - and they've missed this? What a joke.
That is an absolute joke. ITV too. Sky are the only ones running it. Nuclear subs in Aussie waters, a fairly big story…
Nuclear powered, not nuclear armed. Though I imagine they may be able to carry Trident missiles in the future.
No, that would be a very different design. At most they could perhaps manage a few nuclear cruise missiles.
The first Polaris subs were actually cut-and-shut attack subs. One was literally cut in half on the building slip, the two ends pulled apart and the missile compartment added in.
The next generation US/UK attack subs are larger - to help accommodate their natural convection reactors, which require more height. This would make such a conversion even easier.
They’re fucking mental. They’ve ripped us out of Europe and are now lashing us to the US in time for conflict with China. Fuck me. Hasn’t Iraq and Afghanistan taught them anything?
The tripartite deal will strengthen the UK defence industry and must lead to a US trade deal
Europe has been sidelined and it will pose big questions for Starmer and indeed Europe itself
Well, I'll wager one thing: we won't be hearing about AUUKUS ever again.
Looks to me like Scotty wanted a bit of face saving as his deal with the French over subs became unaffordable, mostly over costs of building in Australia.
They’re fucking mental. They’ve ripped us out of Europe and are now lashing us to the US in time for conflict with China. Fuck me. Hasn’t Iraq and Afghanistan taught them anything?
Grow a dick. We're all fucked unless we stand up to and contain China.
Entirely necessary and the right thing to do for the future of humanity, and you're a naïve idiot if you disagree.
They’re fucking mental. They’ve ripped us out of Europe and are now lashing us to the US in time for conflict with China. Fuck me. Hasn’t Iraq and Afghanistan taught them anything?
The tripartite deal will strengthen the UK defence industry and must lead to a US trade deal
Europe has been sidelined and it will pose big questions for Starmer and indeed Europe itself
Whatever you say...
Presumably we’ll just keep waiting for the EU to develop a common foreign policy then.
And whilst it does that, it can continue to pipe Russian gas into the continent
They’re fucking mental. They’ve ripped us out of Europe and are now lashing us to the US in time for conflict with China. Fuck me. Hasn’t Iraq and Afghanistan taught them anything?
The tripartite deal will strengthen the UK defence industry and must lead to a US trade deal
Europe has been sidelined and it will pose big questions for Starmer and indeed Europe itself
Big G. I don't wish to be rude, but what absolute nonsense.
Shashank Joshi @shashj · 1m Our piece on AUKUS, which the British government refers to as a "new defence alliance". The agreement, originally proposed by Australia, will be signed in Washington next week, presumably during @ScottMorrisonMP 's visit to Washington between Sep 21-24.
An Aussie proposal, interestingly. But suits US and UK
They’re fucking mental. They’ve ripped us out of Europe and are now lashing us to the US in time for conflict with China. Fuck me. Hasn’t Iraq and Afghanistan taught them anything?
Hahahahahahaha. 'Ripped us out of Europe'. Love your angst.
Well, I'll wager one thing: we won't be hearing about AUUKUS ever again.
Looks to me like Scotty wanted a bit of face saving as his deal with the French over subs became unaffordable, mostly over costs of building in Australia.
Yes, that's my take. Boris was just along for the ride.
Yes but in what sense? If it is just an announcement that Australia will be buying British and American submarines, why would Canada be involved? Biden and Morrison were both at pains to mention that existing partnerships would be honoured.
This felt more momentous. This is a merging of virtually all defence, intel and AI capabilities, to fend off China
Yes but in what sense? If it is just an announcement that Australia will be buying British and American submarines, why would Canada be involved? Biden and Morrison were both at pains to mention that existing partnerships would be honoured.
This felt more momentous. This is a merging of virtually all defence, intel and AI capabilities, to fend off China
If nuclear powered but not nuclear armed, it can stay submerged indefinitely and so be very difficult to detect. One of those showing up in the middle of a fleet can really ruin someone’s day, as the General Belgrano found out.
They’re fucking mental. They’ve ripped us out of Europe and are now lashing us to the US in time for conflict with China. Fuck me. Hasn’t Iraq and Afghanistan taught them anything?
What would your approach to China be?
Let ‘em fucking get on with it. It’s their backyard. We don’t have an Empire anymore. We don’t rule the seas. Get over it. Yes they do things we don’t agree with. The treatment of the Uighurs is abhorrent, for example. The Taliban treat women like shit but we don’t care about them poor fuckers anymore. What are we going to do to China? Invade? Drone strikes?
They’re fucking mad.
China’s going to be the dominant global power. It’s going to happen. It’s not welcome but that’s the reality.
They'll surely cover it before 22:30 just not live.
No excuse whatsoever
No need to cover it live until the content was known.
Don't be silly. The PM gives a press conference with the President of the United States of America (and the President of Australia) then you bloody well cover it.
The level of multiculturalism in this Cabinet is way beyond anything we have ever seen. Chancellor, Home Sec, Health Sec, Business Sec, Education Sec. Its really remarkable but people still witter on about newspaper articles decades ago. Labour front bench is incredibly white by comparison.
Have I got this right? Australia just became a nuclear power?
No, but in a sense this is more important. Australia is definitively joining an anti-Chinese military pact. That is the one and only role for AUKUS. Given the reliance of the Australian economy on Chinese trade, that is brave, if not ambitious (and too much to expect from NZ)
They’re fucking mental. They’ve ripped us out of Europe and are now lashing us to the US in time for conflict with China. Fuck me. Hasn’t Iraq and Afghanistan taught them anything?
Hahahahahahaha. 'Ripped us out of Europe'. Love your angst.
They can feel rejoin slipping away. This plays directly into the "global Britain" narrative and pushes us much further away from the EU. Our impending CPTPP membership will be the final nail in the coffin.
Absolutely brilliant on here today. It's because Ardern has China's fist up New Zealand's bum! No, it's nuclear subs for Australia. It's aliens! No it's nuclear subs for Australia. It's a triumph for Brexit! No it's nuclear subs for Australia. It's the end of Trudeau! No it's nuclear subs for Australia.
They’re fucking mental. They’ve ripped us out of Europe and are now lashing us to the US in time for conflict with China. Fuck me. Hasn’t Iraq and Afghanistan taught them anything?
The tripartite deal will strengthen the UK defence industry and must lead to a US trade deal
Europe has been sidelined and it will pose big questions for Starmer and indeed Europe itself
Whatever you say...
The reason that both the UK and the US are involved in the submarine deal is probably because of the interlinking of the US and UK submarine programs at technical level.
The Americans shared natural convection reactor designs with us, for example, and we shared pump jet propulsor design with them (another example). The two together are the key to building a fast, silent nuke sub. There might well be agreements meaning that sharing the technologies with a third party would require agreement from the originators - so UK tech would require UK approval and US tech, US approval.
They’re fucking mental. They’ve ripped us out of Europe and are now lashing us to the US in time for conflict with China. Fuck me. Hasn’t Iraq and Afghanistan taught them anything?
Hahahahahahaha. 'Ripped us out of Europe'. Love your angst.
It's hilarious how some people still see the EU as more important than standing up to a repressive authoritarian regime that's committing genocide, "disappears" its own dissidents and wants to export its restrictions on free thought and speech worldwide all because they lost a referendum five years ago.
They’re fucking mental. They’ve ripped us out of Europe and are now lashing us to the US in time for conflict with China. Fuck me. Hasn’t Iraq and Afghanistan taught them anything?
What would your approach to China be?
Let ‘em fucking get on with it. It’s their backyard. We don’t have an Empire anymore. We don’t rule the seas. Get over it. Yes they do things we don’t agree with. The treatment of the Uighurs is abhorrent, for example. The Taliban treat women like shit but we don’t care about them poor fuckers anymore. What are we going to do to China? Invade? Drone strikes?
They’re fucking mad.
China’s going to be the dominant global power. It’s going to happen. It’s not welcome but that’s the reality.
I disagree. We can't just let them do whatever they want.
They’re fucking mental. They’ve ripped us out of Europe and are now lashing us to the US in time for conflict with China. Fuck me. Hasn’t Iraq and Afghanistan taught them anything?
The tripartite deal will strengthen the UK defence industry and must lead to a US trade deal
Europe has been sidelined and it will pose big questions for Starmer and indeed Europe itself
Big G. I don't wish to be rude, but what absolute nonsense.
They’re fucking mental. They’ve ripped us out of Europe and are now lashing us to the US in time for conflict with China. Fuck me. Hasn’t Iraq and Afghanistan taught them anything?
What would your approach to China be?
Let ‘em fucking get on with it. It’s their backyard. We don’t have an Empire anymore. We don’t rule the seas. Get over it. Yes they do things we don’t agree with. The treatment of the Uighurs is abhorrent, for example. The Taliban treat women like shit but we don’t care about them poor fuckers anymore. What are we going to do to China? Invade? Drone strikes?
They’re fucking mad.
China’s going to be the dominant global power. It’s going to happen. It’s not welcome but that’s the reality.
Defeatist gibberish. China will be the biggest economy - for a while - but that absolutely DOES NOT mean they will be the hegemonic or dominant power, not if the democratic West unites (and loops in real or potential allies like S Korea, India, Japan). AUKUS is the first attempt to do that, it will be the core of the strategy
China can be contained, and peace will then be maintained. A kind of Cold War with free trade. That's what we want, it is the best we can hope for. This is the beginning
Yes but in what sense? If it is just an announcement that Australia will be buying British and American submarines, why would Canada be involved? Biden and Morrison were both at pains to mention that existing partnerships would be honoured.
This felt more momentous. This is a merging of virtually all defence, intel and AI capabilities, to fend off China
There was something about AI and Cyber that was aimed at China but mainly it's an arms sale to Australia.
Not even that actually. They announced an 18-month negotiation of an arms sale.
Well, I'll wager one thing: we won't be hearing about AUUKUS ever again.
Looks to me like Scotty wanted a bit of face saving as his deal with the French over subs became unaffordable, mostly over costs of building in Australia.
Yes, that's my take. Boris was just along for the ride.
Actually, I'll revise that. There'll doubtless be a huge backlash in AUS about becoming a mere US dominion. Boris's presence might provide some counterweight to that, though it isn't great - many will see it as a former colonial master trying to muscle in with a potential new one.
They’re fucking mental. They’ve ripped us out of Europe and are now lashing us to the US in time for conflict with China. Fuck me. Hasn’t Iraq and Afghanistan taught them anything?
What would your approach to China be?
Let ‘em fucking get on with it. It’s their backyard. We don’t have an Empire anymore. We don’t rule the seas. Get over it. Yes they do things we don’t agree with. The treatment of the Uighurs is abhorrent, for example. The Taliban treat women like shit but we don’t care about them poor fuckers anymore. What are we going to do to China? Invade? Drone strikes?
They’re fucking mad.
China’s going to be the dominant global power. It’s going to happen. It’s not welcome but that’s the reality.
Defeatist gibberish. China will be the biggest economy - for a while - but that absolutely DOES NOT mean they will be the hegemonic or dominant power, not if the democratic West unites (and loops in real or potential allies like S Korea, India, Japan). AUKUS is the first attempt to do that, it will be the core of the strategy
China can be contained, and peace will then be maintained. A kind of Cold War with free trade. That's what we want, it is the best we can hope for. This is the beginning
Yes. The optimist in me says the fight back starts here. But it’s just the first step.
They'll surely cover it before 22:30 just not live.
No excuse whatsoever
No need to cover it live until the content was known.
Don't be silly. The PM gives a press conference with the President of the United States of America (and the President of Australia) then you bloody well cover it.
Honestly, it's an important announcement that needed to be covered. But live? No.
Absolutely brilliant on here today. It's because Ardern has China's fist up New Zealand's bum! No, it's nuclear subs for Australia. It's aliens! No it's nuclear subs for Australia. It's a triumph for Brexit! No it's nuclear subs for Australia. It's the end of Trudeau! No it's nuclear subs for Australia.
Oh, it's nuclear subs for Australia.
The first and fourth are relevant. If it weren't for Trudeau and Ardern this could have been a Five Eyes arrangement.
The third is only being dragged in by Remoaners complaining about us being ripped out of Europe. Which is odd, remind me what Europe's defence policy is please?
They’re fucking mental. They’ve ripped us out of Europe and are now lashing us to the US in time for conflict with China. Fuck me. Hasn’t Iraq and Afghanistan taught them anything?
What would your approach to China be?
Let ‘em fucking get on with it. It’s their backyard. We don’t have an Empire anymore. We don’t rule the seas. Get over it. Yes they do things we don’t agree with. The treatment of the Uighurs is abhorrent, for example. The Taliban treat women like shit but we don’t care about them poor fuckers anymore. What are we going to do to China? Invade? Drone strikes?
They’re fucking mad.
China’s going to be the dominant global power. It’s going to happen. It’s not welcome but that’s the reality.
If we do nothing and China become the dominant global power your freedoms go too. Pouf. Gone. They will use a mixture of money and threats to control your life, and the world then slips into a dark new authoritarian age.
They’re fucking mental. They’ve ripped us out of Europe and are now lashing us to the US in time for conflict with China. Fuck me. Hasn’t Iraq and Afghanistan taught them anything?
Hahahahahahaha. 'Ripped us out of Europe'. Love your angst.
They can feel rejoin slipping away. This plays directly into the "global Britain" narrative and pushes us much further away from the EU. Our impending CPTPP membership will be the final nail in the coffin.
What a bunch a sabre rattling imbeciles you are.
I’m more concerned about the country being turned into cinders because of fucking Taiwan or something, some shit hole on the other side of the globe, than being in the fucking EU.
It’s like Franz Ferdinand and Sarajevo, dragged into a war we’ve no need to be in.
They’re fucking mental. They’ve ripped us out of Europe and are now lashing us to the US in time for conflict with China. Fuck me. Hasn’t Iraq and Afghanistan taught them anything?
Hahahahahahaha. 'Ripped us out of Europe'. Love your angst.
It's hilarious how some people still see the EU as more important than standing up to a repressive authoritarian regime that's committing genocide, "disappears" its own dissidents and wants to export its restrictions on free thought and speech worldwide all because they lost a referendum five years ago.
Utterly contemptible.
And which leaked a lethal pandemic on the world two years ago, a pandemic which has killed 10 million and will kill millions more, and which has decimated the world economy, and then covered up its probable origins in a dodgy lab, so we will never know for sure
That is China. Yet still they wibble on about Brexit
Have I got this right? Australia just became a nuclear power?
No, but in a sense this is more important. Australia is definitively joining an anti-Chinese military pact. That is the one and only role for AUKUS. Given the reliance of the Australian economy on Chinese trade, that is brave, if not ambitious (and too much to expect from NZ)
This is big.
Not as big as if the alien invasion had been announced.
If nuclear powered but not nuclear armed, it can stay submerged indefinitely and so be very difficult to detect. One of those showing up in the middle of a fleet can really ruin someone’s day, as the General Belgrano found out.
As the Americans noted when a Chinese submarine surfaced next to one of their carriers recently.
And even in ww2, it was U-boat SOP to infiltrate convoys before sinking allied ships.
Grow a dick. We're all fucked unless we stand up to and contain China.
Entirely necessary and the right thing to do for the future of humanity, and you're a naïve idiot if you disagree.
"Stand up to and contain" China?
Okay - they're winning the economic war hands down it would seem - is any part of this standing up and containing process going to involve challenging China economically and environmentally (I presume if China can't get its coal from Australia, one of its African surrogates will provide).
How do we compete with China in Africa for example? What can we provide they can't?
Do we see the PLA marching across the steppes or sweeping into the Pacific - if so, shouldn't part of the containment process involve Russia and India who both share extensive borders with China or is our focus purely on the Pacific (Japan, South Korea?).
What of North Korea and its ballistic missile capability (another country with whom China shares a border coincidentally)?
I'm not disputing the fact China is emerging (or re-emerging) as a significant global power - at least economically. The military dimension - inasmuch as the nature of warfare is moving away to other spheres and other weapons than the old-fashioned tanks, guns and ships to cyber space and, whisper it quietly perhaps, biological warfare (sorry, can't get @Leon excited at this time of evening) - is less clear.
Are we offering any kind of guarantee to Vietnam (another country bordering China) or the Philippines?
Perhaps we should be looking to re-activate SEATO or something similar - I don't know.
I sense "standing up to and containing", while an easy soundbite, needs a lot more thought and coherence to get close to an actual policy.
They’re fucking mental. They’ve ripped us out of Europe and are now lashing us to the US in time for conflict with China. Fuck me. Hasn’t Iraq and Afghanistan taught them anything?
What would your approach to China be?
Let ‘em fucking get on with it. It’s their backyard. We don’t have an Empire anymore. We don’t rule the seas. Get over it. Yes they do things we don’t agree with. The treatment of the Uighurs is abhorrent, for example. The Taliban treat women like shit but we don’t care about them poor fuckers anymore. What are we going to do to China? Invade? Drone strikes?
They’re fucking mad.
China’s going to be the dominant global power. It’s going to happen. It’s not welcome but that’s the reality.
Just because China may end up the largest economy does not mean that as a Communist Party dictatorship still we should stand idly by and watch it threaten to invade Taiwan and then move on to Japan, S Korea etc. Supplying Australia with nuclear power submarines to help it join US, British, French and Japanese ships in patrolling the South China seas and warding off any overtly aggressive actions from Beijing is to be welcomed
Shadow Chinese carriers, cut undersea cables, deploy special forces, launch cruise missiles, launch UAVs and UUVs, collect signals; quite a lot really.
They’re fucking mental. They’ve ripped us out of Europe and are now lashing us to the US in time for conflict with China. Fuck me. Hasn’t Iraq and Afghanistan taught them anything?
Hahahahahahaha. 'Ripped us out of Europe'. Love your angst.
They can feel rejoin slipping away. This plays directly into the "global Britain" narrative and pushes us much further away from the EU. Our impending CPTPP membership will be the final nail in the coffin.
What a bunch a sabre rattling imbeciles you are.
I’m more concerned about the country being turned into cinders because of fucking Taiwan or something, some shit hole on the other side of the globe, than being in the fucking EU.
It’s like Franz Ferdinand and Sarajevo, dragged into a war we’ve no need to be in.
Were you less parochial, you might have known that Taiwan is a simply fabulous country. And yes, it is a country.
Yes but in what sense? If it is just an announcement that Australia will be buying British and American submarines, why would Canada be involved? Biden and Morrison were both at pains to mention that existing partnerships would be honoured.
This felt more momentous. This is a merging of virtually all defence, intel and AI capabilities, to fend off China
It’s only momentous if Japan and India follow.
Wouldn't surprise me in the least if they did. Very welcome too.
They’re fucking mental. They’ve ripped us out of Europe and are now lashing us to the US in time for conflict with China. Fuck me. Hasn’t Iraq and Afghanistan taught them anything?
Hahahahahahaha. 'Ripped us out of Europe'. Love your angst.
They can feel rejoin slipping away. This plays directly into the "global Britain" narrative and pushes us much further away from the EU. Our impending CPTPP membership will be the final nail in the coffin.
What a bunch a sabre rattling imbeciles you are.
I’m more concerned about the country being turned into cinders because of fucking Taiwan or something, some shit hole on the other side of the globe, than being in the fucking EU.
It’s like Franz Ferdinand and Sarajevo, dragged into a war we’ve no need to be in.
But we ARE in this war. It is a Cold War for now, but it is a war. Do you think Britain can somehow hide from the clear and present menace of China? We cannot
They’re fucking mental. They’ve ripped us out of Europe and are now lashing us to the US in time for conflict with China. Fuck me. Hasn’t Iraq and Afghanistan taught them anything?
Hahahahahahaha. 'Ripped us out of Europe'. Love your angst.
They can feel rejoin slipping away. This plays directly into the "global Britain" narrative and pushes us much further away from the EU. Our impending CPTPP membership will be the final nail in the coffin.
What a bunch a sabre rattling imbeciles you are.
I’m more concerned about the country being turned into cinders because of fucking Taiwan or something, some shit hole on the other side of the globe, than being in the fucking EU.
It’s like Franz Ferdinand and Sarajevo, dragged into a war we’ve no need to be in.
They’re fucking mental. They’ve ripped us out of Europe and are now lashing us to the US in time for conflict with China. Fuck me. Hasn’t Iraq and Afghanistan taught them anything?
The tripartite deal will strengthen the UK defence industry and must lead to a US trade deal
Europe has been sidelined and it will pose big questions for Starmer and indeed Europe itself
Big G. I don't wish to be rude, but what absolute nonsense.
Why is it nonsense
You said it "must lead to a US trade deal" - no evidence for that.
Also, "big questions for Starmer" - really? What are they?
They’re fucking mental. They’ve ripped us out of Europe and are now lashing us to the US in time for conflict with China. Fuck me. Hasn’t Iraq and Afghanistan taught them anything?
Hahahahahahaha. 'Ripped us out of Europe'. Love your angst.
They can feel rejoin slipping away. This plays directly into the "global Britain" narrative and pushes us much further away from the EU. Our impending CPTPP membership will be the final nail in the coffin.
What a bunch a sabre rattling imbeciles you are.
I’m more concerned about the country being turned into cinders because of fucking Taiwan or something, some shit hole on the other side of the globe, than being in the fucking EU.
It’s like Franz Ferdinand and Sarajevo, dragged into a war we’ve no need to be in.
You're an appeaser, and a bit of a coward.
I have nothing but contempt for your views.
Forty years ago he'd have said the same thing about the USSR.
They’re fucking mental. They’ve ripped us out of Europe and are now lashing us to the US in time for conflict with China. Fuck me. Hasn’t Iraq and Afghanistan taught them anything?
Hahahahahahaha. 'Ripped us out of Europe'. Love your angst.
They can feel rejoin slipping away. This plays directly into the "global Britain" narrative and pushes us much further away from the EU. Our impending CPTPP membership will be the final nail in the coffin.
What a bunch a sabre rattling imbeciles you are.
I’m more concerned about the country being turned into cinders because of fucking Taiwan or something, some shit hole on the other side of the globe, than being in the fucking EU.
It’s like Franz Ferdinand and Sarajevo, dragged into a war we’ve no need to be in.
So your solution is to.. do nothing? Considering how dominant and reliant we’ve the west has become on China in recent decades, that is a tad naive
Well, I'll wager one thing: we won't be hearing about AUUKUS ever again.
Looks to me like Scotty wanted a bit of face saving as his deal with the French over subs became unaffordable, mostly over costs of building in Australia.
Yes, that's my take. Boris was just along for the ride.
Actually, I'll revise that. There'll doubtless be a huge backlash in AUS about becoming a mere US dominion. Boris's presence might provide some counterweight to that, though it isn't great - many will see it as a former colonial master trying to muscle in with a potential new one.
No. Since the fall of Singapore, and the Battle of the Coral Sea, Australia has known that the only country that can protect it is the USA. That is why the Aussies were in Korea, Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan. Notably we skipped Vietnam, much to the Americans annoyance.
What does it matter to the UK? Possibly some export sales, though nothing very soon. More importantly it is to curry favour with Scotty in the run up to other deals.
They’re fucking mental. They’ve ripped us out of Europe and are now lashing us to the US in time for conflict with China. Fuck me. Hasn’t Iraq and Afghanistan taught them anything?
Hahahahahahaha. 'Ripped us out of Europe'. Love your angst.
It's hilarious how some people still see the EU as more important than standing up to a repressive authoritarian regime that's committing genocide, "disappears" its own dissidents and wants to export its restrictions on free thought and speech worldwide all because they lost a referendum five years ago.
Utterly contemptible.
To be honest I think there is sheer horror in those who are pro EU as the UK moves onto the world stage with trade deals across the Pacific and the US now firmly in the grasp of the UK government
Absolutely brilliant on here today. It's because Ardern has China's fist up New Zealand's bum! No, it's nuclear subs for Australia. It's aliens! No it's nuclear subs for Australia. It's a triumph for Brexit! No it's nuclear subs for Australia. It's the end of Trudeau! No it's nuclear subs for Australia.
Oh, it's nuclear subs for Australia.
The first and fourth are relevant. If it weren't for Trudeau and Ardern this could have been a Five Eyes arrangement.
The third is only being dragged in by Remoaners complaining about us being ripped out of Europe. Which is odd, remind me what Europe's defence policy is please?
Ok, we can add This is why Brexit is terrible! No it's nuclear subs for Australia.
Such an outpouring of directionless froth from all sides tonight. Very strange to see.
The level of multiculturalism in this Cabinet is way beyond anything we have ever seen. Chancellor, Home Sec, Health Sec, Business Sec, Education Sec. Its really remarkable but people still witter on about newspaper articles decades ago. Labour front bench is incredibly white by comparison.
Quite rigid for the News Channel not to break from the 10 o'clock news for it, but I wouldn't have led BBC1 with that.
Just on the news now.
It was a rare live tripartite address by the leaders of UK US and Australia and they decide not to feed it live
At least Sky did
You're expecting deference to the occasion rather than consideration of whether the substance of the announcement, which had been trailed, deserved to lead the news.
I think the BBC called it right not to run the live feed on BBC1, but what it does deserve is good analysis - I'll reserve judgement on that.
The pre-emptive kicking from the usual suspects feels mostly like so many tiny little doctors' hammers coming down on so many knees.
They’re fucking mental. They’ve ripped us out of Europe and are now lashing us to the US in time for conflict with China. Fuck me. Hasn’t Iraq and Afghanistan taught them anything?
Hahahahahahaha. 'Ripped us out of Europe'. Love your angst.
They can feel rejoin slipping away. This plays directly into the "global Britain" narrative and pushes us much further away from the EU. Our impending CPTPP membership will be the final nail in the coffin.
What a bunch a sabre rattling imbeciles you are.
I’m more concerned about the country being turned into cinders because of fucking Taiwan or something, some shit hole on the other side of the globe, than being in the fucking EU.
It’s like Franz Ferdinand and Sarajevo, dragged into a war we’ve no need to be in.
But we ARE in this war. It is a Cold War for now, but it is a war. Do you think Britain can somehow hide from the clear and present menace of China? We cannot
It's been clear that we've been in a cold war for over a decade with only one side actually fighting. Now we've got appeasers on our own side complaining that we're finally mobilising and fighting back. We defeated the Soviets and Chinese are no different.
They’re fucking mental. They’ve ripped us out of Europe and are now lashing us to the US in time for conflict with China. Fuck me. Hasn’t Iraq and Afghanistan taught them anything?
Hahahahahahaha. 'Ripped us out of Europe'. Love your angst.
They can feel rejoin slipping away. This plays directly into the "global Britain" narrative and pushes us much further away from the EU. Our impending CPTPP membership will be the final nail in the coffin.
What a bunch a sabre rattling imbeciles you are.
I’m more concerned about the country being turned into cinders because of fucking Taiwan or something, some shit hole on the other side of the globe, than being in the fucking EU.
It’s like Franz Ferdinand and Sarajevo, dragged into a war we’ve no need to be in.
But we ARE in this war. It is a Cold War for now, but it is a war. Do you think Britain can somehow hide from the clear and present menace of China? We cannot
I have been pulling my hair out for years because Western policy makers refused to acknowledge they were an unwilling protagonist in a new Cold War. So relieved they’ve woken up to it.
The level of multiculturalism in this Cabinet is way beyond anything we have ever seen. Chancellor, Home Sec, Health Sec, Business Sec, Education Sec. Its really remarkable but people still witter on about newspaper articles decades ago. Labour front bench is incredibly white by comparison.
They'll surely cover it before 22:30 just not live.
No excuse whatsoever
No need to cover it live until the content was known.
Don't be silly. The PM gives a press conference with the President of the United States of America (and the President of Australia) then you bloody well cover it.
Honestly, it's an important announcement that needed to be covered. But live? No.
That's ridiculous.
How often does the Prime Minister give a joint press conference with the President of the United States of America?
If those two are giving a joint press conference, that's what the news should be covering live.
They'll surely cover it before 22:30 just not live.
No excuse whatsoever
No need to cover it live until the content was known.
Don't be silly. The PM gives a press conference with the President of the United States of America (and the President of Australia) then you bloody well cover it.
Honestly, it's an important announcement that needed to be covered. But live? No.
That's ridiculous.
How often does the Prime Minister give a joint press conference with the President of the United States of America?
If those two are giving a joint press conference, that's what the news should be covering live.
FFS If it's that important why did Johnson pick the same day for his re-shuffle?
They’re fucking mental. They’ve ripped us out of Europe and are now lashing us to the US in time for conflict with China. Fuck me. Hasn’t Iraq and Afghanistan taught them anything?
What would your approach to China be?
Let ‘em fucking get on with it. It’s their backyard. We don’t have an Empire anymore. We don’t rule the seas. Get over it. Yes they do things we don’t agree with. The treatment of the Uighurs is abhorrent, for example. The Taliban treat women like shit but we don’t care about them poor fuckers anymore. What are we going to do to China? Invade? Drone strikes?
They’re fucking mad.
China’s going to be the dominant global power. It’s going to happen. It’s not welcome but that’s the reality.
If we do nothing and China become the dominant global power your freedoms go too. Pouf. Gone. They will use a mixture of money and threats to control your life, and the world then slips into a dark new authoritarian age.
Wake up.
And having spent the last 25 years trading exclusively with China, exporting our manufacturing jobs and filling their banks with USD, Euros and UK pounds, in order to keep western inflation down, the penny has finally dropped.
Isn’t the more likely outcome Taiwan has a referendum and votes to unite with China? They fled communism, but now China got more billionaires and millionaire than anyone. Being under the nationalistic umbrella might actually appeal to the Taiwanese
And the silk road China is building reaches Europe, and UK workers all use their jobs because of cheap imports? Can we blow up that dangerous road with our subs instead? Isn’t that the realistic threat. There’s numerous ways to take a country into serfdom and client state. ☹️
They'll surely cover it before 22:30 just not live.
No excuse whatsoever
No need to cover it live until the content was known.
Don't be silly. The PM gives a press conference with the President of the United States of America (and the President of Australia) then you bloody well cover it.
Honestly, it's an important announcement that needed to be covered. But live? No.
That's ridiculous.
How often does the Prime Minister give a joint press conference with the President of the United States of America?
If those two are giving a joint press conference, that's what the news should be covering live.
FFS If it's that important why did Johnson pick the same day for his re-shuffle?
That was hours ago and was covered already and can be covered again after the press conference.
I can't recall the BBC ever not covering a joint press conference between the POTUS and PM before.
Doubt it. You're a wavering voter and you hear that a deal to sell Australia some non-nuclear armed nuclear-powered subs has been agreed, and Canada's not involved. Does that decide your vote? Unlikely.
They’re fucking mental. They’ve ripped us out of Europe and are now lashing us to the US in time for conflict with China. Fuck me. Hasn’t Iraq and Afghanistan taught them anything?
Hahahahahahaha. 'Ripped us out of Europe'. Love your angst.
They can feel rejoin slipping away. This plays directly into the "global Britain" narrative and pushes us much further away from the EU. Our impending CPTPP membership will be the final nail in the coffin.
What a bunch a sabre rattling imbeciles you are.
I’m more concerned about the country being turned into cinders because of fucking Taiwan or something, some shit hole on the other side of the globe, than being in the fucking EU.
It’s like Franz Ferdinand and Sarajevo, dragged into a war we’ve no need to be in.
So your solution is to.. do nothing? Considering how dominant and reliant we’ve the west has become on China in recent decades, that is a tad naive
No, it is a matter of practicality. We have armed forces that couldn't hold a single province of Afghanistan, and who left Basra with tails between our legs when the Yanks rescued them. We have no bases in the region of China.
Our contribution to any war, hot or cold, against China will be insignificant.
They'll surely cover it before 22:30 just not live.
No excuse whatsoever
No need to cover it live until the content was known.
Don't be silly. The PM gives a press conference with the President of the United States of America (and the President of Australia) then you bloody well cover it.
Honestly, it's an important announcement that needed to be covered. But live? No.
That's ridiculous.
How often does the Prime Minister give a joint press conference with the President of the United States of America?
If those two are giving a joint press conference, that's what the news should be covering live.
FFS If it's that important why did Johnson pick the same day for his re-shuffle?
Perhaps they only dragged Boris into it late this afternoon - the brief boilerplate he spouted certainly gave that impression.
Isn’t the more likely outcome Taiwan has a referendum and votes to unite with China? They fled communism, but now China got more billionaires and millionaire than anyone. Being under the nationalistic umbrella might actually appeal to the Taiwanese
And the silk road China is building reaches Europe, and UK workers all use their jobs because of cheap imports? Can we blow up that dangerous road with our subs instead? Isn’t that the realistic threat. There’s numerous ways to take a country into serfdom and client state. ☹️
Not a chance, they've seen what has happened to Hong Kong.
They'll surely cover it before 22:30 just not live.
No excuse whatsoever
No need to cover it live until the content was known.
Don't be silly. The PM gives a press conference with the President of the United States of America (and the President of Australia) then you bloody well cover it.
Honestly, it's an important announcement that needed to be covered. But live? No.
That's ridiculous.
How often does the Prime Minister give a joint press conference with the President of the United States of America?
If those two are giving a joint press conference, that's what the news should be covering live.
You need to separate the uniqueness of the staging (I don't remember anything like it) from the importance of the announcement (pretty technical, unimportant for most people's everyday's lives). It's generated a lot of heat, but your life will be the same tomorrow and next year.
I said it hours ago, and I'm even more certain now, this was a presser for Beijing's consumption more than for ours.
Isn’t the more likely outcome Taiwan has a referendum and votes to unite with China? They fled communism, but now China got more billionaires and millionaire than anyone. Being under the nationalistic umbrella might actually appeal to the Taiwanese
They’re fucking mental. They’ve ripped us out of Europe and are now lashing us to the US in time for conflict with China. Fuck me. Hasn’t Iraq and Afghanistan taught them anything?
The tripartite deal will strengthen the UK defence industry and must lead to a US trade deal
Europe has been sidelined and it will pose big questions for Starmer and indeed Europe itself
Big G. I don't wish to be rude, but what absolute nonsense.
Why is it nonsense
You said it "must lead to a US trade deal" - no evidence for that.
Also, "big questions for Starmer" - really? What are they?
Does he support this tripartite deal to provide nuclear powered subs to Australia
They’re fucking mental. They’ve ripped us out of Europe and are now lashing us to the US in time for conflict with China. Fuck me. Hasn’t Iraq and Afghanistan taught them anything?
Hahahahahahaha. 'Ripped us out of Europe'. Love your angst.
They can feel rejoin slipping away. This plays directly into the "global Britain" narrative and pushes us much further away from the EU. Our impending CPTPP membership will be the final nail in the coffin.
What a bunch a sabre rattling imbeciles you are.
I’m more concerned about the country being turned into cinders because of fucking Taiwan or something, some shit hole on the other side of the globe, than being in the fucking EU.
It’s like Franz Ferdinand and Sarajevo, dragged into a war we’ve no need to be in.
But we ARE in this war. It is a Cold War for now, but it is a war. Do you think Britain can somehow hide from the clear and present menace of China? We cannot
It's been clear that we've been in a cold war for over a decade with only one side actually fighting. Now we've got appeasers on our own side complaining that we're finally mobilising and fighting back. We defeated the Soviets and Chinese are no different.
It all changed when Xi Jinping came to power. A brutal autocrat with an expansive if not imperialist mindset. So, 2013. Not quite a decade but near enough
Until then it was possible to believe China would evolve into a kind of Japan times 10 or a Taiwan times 100. Not quite a democracy as we know it, but relatively free and peaceful. That was not naivety, it was a plausible ambition for the world.
Have I got this right? Australia just became a nuclear power?
No, but in a sense this is more important. Australia is definitively joining an anti-Chinese military pact. That is the one and only role for AUKUS. Given the reliance of the Australian economy on Chinese trade, that is brave, if not ambitious (and too much to expect from NZ)
This is big.
Not as big as if the alien invasion had been announced.
Whilst I'm delighted by this and I hope more countries join am I the only worried that when Trump or some other Trump clone wins the White House in 2024 or some other date they end up ripping us this deal/agreement?
Comments
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_George_Washington_(SSBN-598)
The next generation US/UK attack subs are larger - to help accommodate their natural convection reactors, which require more height. This would make such a conversion even easier.
At least Sky did
Entirely necessary and the right thing to do for the future of humanity, and you're a naïve idiot if you disagree.
Just like CANZUK if you can merge two names into one sharing a vowel then you do.
And whilst it does that, it can continue to pipe Russian gas into the continent
Maybe close to China.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astute-class_submarine
Neil Henderson
@hendopolis
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STAR: Clowning Street Massacre #TomorrowsPapersToday
Nuclear powered submarine, so the submarine can be underwater anywhere in the Pacific for months without needing to surface or refuel.
Actually probably much more useful and practical than nuclear weapons are which are just deterrents.
They’re fucking mad.
China’s going to be the dominant global power. It’s going to happen. It’s not welcome but that’s the reality.
This is big.
It's because Ardern has China's fist up New Zealand's bum! No, it's nuclear subs for Australia.
It's aliens! No it's nuclear subs for Australia.
It's a triumph for Brexit! No it's nuclear subs for Australia.
It's the end of Trudeau! No it's nuclear subs for Australia.
Oh, it's nuclear subs for Australia.
The Americans shared natural convection reactor designs with us, for example, and we shared pump jet propulsor design with them (another example). The two together are the key to building a fast, silent nuke sub. There might well be agreements meaning that sharing the technologies with a third party would require agreement from the originators - so UK tech would require UK approval and US tech, US approval.
I am sure you are not so naive to think this will not be heard about again
Utterly contemptible.
Maybe close to China. No, not at all. Definitely not, because if that were true there would be chaos.
China can be contained, and peace will then be maintained. A kind of Cold War with free trade. That's what we want, it is the best we can hope for. This is the beginning
Not even that actually. They announced an 18-month negotiation of an arms sale.
The third is only being dragged in by Remoaners complaining about us being ripped out of Europe. Which is odd, remind me what Europe's defence policy is please?
Wake up.
I’m more concerned about the country being turned into cinders because of fucking Taiwan or something, some shit hole on the other side of the globe, than being in the fucking EU.
It’s like Franz Ferdinand and Sarajevo, dragged into a war we’ve no need to be in.
That is China. Yet still they wibble on about Brexit
And even in ww2, it was U-boat SOP to infiltrate convoys before sinking allied ships.
Okay - they're winning the economic war hands down it would seem - is any part of this standing up and containing process going to involve challenging China economically and environmentally (I presume if China can't get its coal from Australia, one of its African surrogates will provide).
How do we compete with China in Africa for example? What can we provide they can't?
Do we see the PLA marching across the steppes or sweeping into the Pacific - if so, shouldn't part of the containment process involve Russia and India who both share extensive borders with China or is our focus purely on the Pacific (Japan, South Korea?).
What of North Korea and its ballistic missile capability (another country with whom China shares a border coincidentally)?
I'm not disputing the fact China is emerging (or re-emerging) as a significant global power - at least economically. The military dimension - inasmuch as the nature of warfare is moving away to other spheres and other weapons than the old-fashioned tanks, guns and ships to cyber space and, whisper it quietly perhaps, biological warfare (sorry, can't get @Leon excited at this time of evening) - is less clear.
Are we offering any kind of guarantee to Vietnam (another country bordering China) or the Philippines?
Perhaps we should be looking to re-activate SEATO or something similar - I don't know.
I sense "standing up to and containing", while an easy soundbite, needs a lot more thought and coherence to get close to an actual policy.
Mind you, all the places you could invade, are miles from anywhere you'd actually want to be.
Taiwan strait is an interesting case - an invasion force would be a perfect target for sub launched anti-ship missiles.
I have nothing but contempt for your views.
Also, "big questions for Starmer" - really? What are they?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_George_Washington_(SSBN-598)
What does it matter to the UK? Possibly some export sales, though nothing very soon. More importantly it is to curry favour with Scotty in the run up to other deals.
This is why Brexit is terrible! No it's nuclear subs for Australia.
Such an outpouring of directionless froth from all sides tonight. Very strange to see.
I think the BBC called it right not to run the live feed on BBC1, but what it does deserve is good analysis - I'll reserve judgement on that.
The pre-emptive kicking from the usual suspects feels mostly like so many tiny little doctors' hammers coming down on so many knees.
How often does the Prime Minister give a joint press conference with the President of the United States of America?
If those two are giving a joint press conference, that's what the news should be covering live.
A bit late for your big boy bravery now isn't it?
And the silk road China is building reaches Europe, and UK workers all use their jobs because of cheap imports? Can we blow up that dangerous road with our subs instead? Isn’t that the realistic threat. There’s numerous ways to take a country into serfdom and client state. ☹️
I can't recall the BBC ever not covering a joint press conference between the POTUS and PM before.
Our contribution to any war, hot or cold, against China will be insignificant.
Creative ambiguity suits them best too.
I said it hours ago, and I'm even more certain now, this was a presser for Beijing's consumption more than for ours.
Absolutely delighted on my return to the cathedral of football that is Anfield.
I am sure the left and the Greens will be furious
Until then it was possible to believe China would evolve into a kind of Japan times 10 or a Taiwan times 100. Not quite a democracy as we know it, but relatively free and peaceful. That was not naivety, it was a plausible ambition for the world.
Sadly gone. China is a foe.
Whilst I'm delighted by this and I hope more countries join am I the only worried that when Trump or some other Trump clone wins the White House in 2024 or some other date they end up ripping us this deal/agreement?